November 15, 2025 • 32 mins
A life narrowed by chronic pain can make even simple pleasures feel like a threat. We sit down with Dr. Leah Flaherty, a pain psychologist at Allegheny Health Network and certified Empowered Relief instructor, to explore a FREE and practical, two-hour path that helps you change how your brain responds to pain—without pretending it will vanish. Grounded in pain neuroscience education and cognitive behavioral therapy, Empowered Relief gives clear, usable tools that calm the nervous system and interrupt the brain’s habitual pain loops and is accessible to anyone, regardless of insurance or location.
We unpack why pain is both sensory and emotional, how stress chemistry keeps the alarm stuck on, and why it’s scientifically valid to say pain can exist even without new tissue damage. Dr. Flaherty explains the guided audio with binaural beats that helps many people relax faster, fall asleep more easily, and de-escalate spikes in real time. We talk through expectation management, the role of daily practice, and the power of reframing catastrophic thoughts into compassionate, realistic self-talk. Small wins count—like getting the kids from the bus stop or finishing one chore—and those wins build agency.
You’ll also hear a candid personal story of trigeminal neuralgia, navigating stigma and “it’s all in your head” comments, and finding hope after medical dead ends. If you’ve felt defeated, skeptical, or unsure where to turn next, this is a science-based, accessible option that takes only two hours and costs nothing. Search “AHN Events Empowered Relief” to register and check out AHN’s “Brain Over Pain” videos on YouTube. If this episode resonates, follow the show, share it with someone, and leave a review to help others find these tools. Your story might be the spark someone else needs to try again.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sherry (00:00):
Before we jump in today, I want to speak directly to
anyone living with chronic painand their caretakers.
Please stick around for thisepisode.
Our guest today will be sharinginformation that just might
help.
You're probably sick of peopletelling you that it's just
stress, that it's all in yourhead, or even throw judgments at
you for the way you are gettingthrough your pain.
Because I've been there.
(00:21):
I know how frustrating it is,and I'm still there.
I know that living with severechronic pain can feel hopeless.
I live with a form oftrigeminal neuralgia, which can
take many of life's simplestpleasures and turn them into
constant burning pain.
Soaking in the sun, a softbreeze, air conditioning,
(00:41):
talking, smiling, singing in thecar, having ice cream,
intimacy, all of that and moreincrease the intensity of the
burning that is there 24 hours aday.
Every day of my life since2017.
It creates a cycle of dread,isolation, and hopelessness
that's hard to interrupt becauseeven things that are supposed
to bring joy become reminders oflimitations.
(01:04):
So when I first heard about theEmpowered Relief Program, I was
skeptical, to say the veryleast.
But after exhausting othercourses of treatment that either
didn't work or weren't optionsfor me, I wasn't buying that
this one would help either.
But I showed up anyway, and itended up changing how I live
with pain.
Notice I didn't say take thepain away.
This isn't some miracle, but itis something real.
(01:27):
It's something that gave mehope and got me out of the
darkness enough to forge a newpath forward.
It's free and available toanyone, regardless of insurance
or location.
And so today I want to sharethis program with our listeners
who experience chronic pain aswell as their caretakers.
Today we're thrilled to betalking with someone who leads
the Empowered Relief Program forPain Management in the
(01:49):
Pittsburgh area.
Joining us is Dr.
Leah Flaherty, a painpsychologist at Allegheny Health
Network and certified empoweredrelief instructor.
Today she will talk to us abouta unique neuroscience-based
experience that uses tools likebinaural beats and brain-based
techniques that help change howthe brain responds to pain.
(02:10):
So, Dr.
Flaherty, what exactly isempowered relief and what sets
it apart from other painprograms?
Dr. Leah Flaherty (02:18):
So I'll start with my story of how I found
it, if that's reasonable, andI'll go into what it is.
I was working as a painpsychologist at the West Penn
Institute for Pain Medicine, andI found myself with this giant
wait list, and I wasn't able tosee people for as many times as
I needed to or wanted to.
So oftentimes I found myselfsaying the same thing over and
(02:39):
over again, and I felt like Iwasn't doing what I needed to
for my patients.
And so I was looking, trying tofigure out if there was a way
that I could cast a wider netand I could say all of the most
important parts of cognitivebehavioral therapy for chronic
pain in a shorter period oftime.
And that's how I foundEmpowered Relief.
So what Empowered Relief is, isit's an evidence-based two-hour
(03:01):
pain education intervention.
So it was created at StanfordUniversity by Dr.
Beth Darnell and hercolleagues.
And so, as folks were alltrying to answer this question,
how do we get the most amount ofinformation to the most amount
of people in a short period oftime?
That's how Dr.
Darnell created this program.
So taking about 16 hours ofcognitive behavioral therapy for
(03:22):
chronic pain, all kinds ofdifferent skills and tools and
teaching about thepathophysiology of chronic pain,
what's going on with the brainand why we're continuing to
experience pain and boiling itdown to the two-hour class.
And so I consider it to be likethe greatest hits of CBT for
chronic pain.
I just love teaching it.
So at this point, I've taught1200 people this class and I
(03:46):
want to keep doing it.
So it's it's been an honor forme to get to teach it.
Sherry (03:50):
So I guess my initial response.
So the thing is when you sayabout a class for pain, I don't
know if it's a common responseof the one that I had at the
time was it's a class.
How in the world is a classgoing to help me?
Can you speak to that beforewe get any further?
Because right away, that waslike I it was almost a
(04:13):
non-starter.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (04:14):
Yep.
I love I love that you'reasking that.
That's really important.
And thank you for grounding mein that.
I think it happens a lot.
I consider this to be a healthliteracy intervention.
So I think there is so muchthat can be answered by
understanding what's happeningin our body, right?
So something we talk about inempowered relief, how the
(04:34):
definition of pain is so muchmore than just the where, right?
So pain, the definition of painis both a negative sensory and
emotional experience.
So there's that whole secondhalf of the definition of pain
has to do with.
So if we think about thesensory part, is the where,
right?
The where am I experiencingpain?
Is it back pain, foot pain,knee pain, fibromyalgia, pain
(04:55):
all over my body?
And then the emotional aspectof it is the who, what, where,
what, right?
So it's the what is who am Inow?
What does this mean for me?
What's gonna happen in my life?
Am I going to feel this wayforever?
When is this gonna stophurting?
So there's all of thesequestions that go along with the
experience of pain.
And so when when people come insaying this is just a class,
(05:20):
how can this possibly make anykind of difference in my life?
Everything that I end up sayingis, well, if we can teach
people about the brain and thebody, about what happens in your
body when you experience pain,what's going on with the
cortisol, the adrenaline, all ofthese inflammatory chemicals
that are rushing through ourbloodstream, if we have the
power to be able to delay someof that and to pause some of
(05:41):
that and to control it, that'show we gain our lives back from
the pain.
And there's so much beauty andpower in that experience.
And I I love to be able to seethat kind of that light switch
go on in people's head when theystart to recognize that they
have power over something thathas taken their lives from them.
Sherry (06:00):
That's exactly it.
That's exactly the way myexperience played out when I
participated in the program.
I really was blown blown away.
I mean, I had hope again.
I can't tell you how much sowhen I was a researcher at the
at the Veterans Integrated PainManagement Center, or excuse me,
at I worked there, but alsowas at the VA at the Mental
(06:23):
Illness Research EducationClinical Center.
And as I was wanting to go onto postdoctoral work, all I kept
thinking about was I want to beable to give hope to the
hopeless.
That's the point here.
If I can educate, if I canteach someone about what's
happening in their body and itcan give them the opportunity
where they can feel hope, that'sit.
That's all I want to do.
(06:44):
And so that's so you sayingthat is exactly why I'm doing
what I'm doing.
Yeah.
It's I'm I consider myselfreally grateful to have gone
through the program and now tobe able to talk about it and
hopefully give someone else achance to give it a try.
The other piece to that is thebinaural beats.
Jodi (07:04):
Can you explain what that is and how that actually works
in the brain?
Dr. Leah Flaherty (07:10):
So, what I can tell you is really what you
learned in the class, Sherry.
So I can say that what thebinaural audio file does, it's a
guided relaxation exercise.
And then underneath the voiceof the guided relaxation
exercise, there's alternatingtones that go in one ear and
then in the next ear.
And so what happens is througha lateralization of the brain
(07:31):
effect, we're able to create anenvironment where we can learn
quicker and where we can gainthat expertise at our
parasympathetic nervous systemactivation quicker.
I am not an audiologist, so Ican't tell you exactly which
wave is happening and how it'sfunctioning on the brain.
And I apologize for that.
But what I do know is thatpeople are able to gain control
(07:51):
over their nervous system andthey're able to relax quicker
and be able to manage theirstress and their pain in a
different way.
And that has been an incredibleopportunity for me to get to
see that work for so manypeople.
Sherry (08:02):
Yeah, and you're you're seeing it in other places now
with like the sound baths andthe gongs and all the different
things.
And I can say the first time Iexperienced those binaural
beats, I didn't realize what washappening, but I did feel
different.
And around the same time aswhen I discovered the sound
baths, and it was a realpowerful experience to feel how
(08:25):
certain sound frequencies canhave that profound impact.
And I think you kind of alreadytouched on it, but I was
wondering what are the types ofshifts, or can you explain like
a shift that you saw inparticipants after they engage
with the tools?
Dr. Leah Flaherty (08:40):
So the way that I think about it as a
psychologist and not anaudiologist is if someone finds
something that works, by thetime I see people, by the time,
and and I know you lived this,Sherry, you've tried so many
different things, have been toso many different doctors, and
start to feel pretty hopeless,right?
Start to feel like, how am Igoing to get an answer for this?
How is my pain ever going to goaway?
And so what I have foundfrequently with the binaural
(09:03):
audiophile is when people startto listen to it, they start to
say, Oh my goodness, I can'tbelieve I was able to fall
asleep like that.
I can't believe that myinsomnia was able to reduce in
such an incredible way.
I had this email from a womansaying that she listens to it
when she feels herself gettingactivated, right?
She was in an ambulance and putit on because she was feeling
so activated in the ambulance.
(09:23):
She's like, okay, I just needto help myself with this, right?
And so when people start togain a little bit of confidence
in their ability to make changesin their pain and in their
stress level, that's how itgrows, right?
Sherry (09:35):
So once you realize you have you do have a little agency
over it.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (09:39):
Exactly, exactly.
And once you have that smallbit of agency, it starts to
grow.
And I mean, you see peoplesay, I feel in control of my
life in a way that I haven't inyears.
Sherry (09:50):
Yep.
I want to comment on somethingDr.
Flaherty said before aboutpeople just feeling defeated and
you know, am I going to have tolive with this forever?
Is it ever going to end?
And just ruminating on thosethings.
And I was there.
It started in 2017 and it wenton for about two years.
And I finally got to the pointthat I was exploring surgical
(10:13):
options.
And it turned out that the daythat I was scheduled to have my
MRI, they were like, Well, wehave to cancel that MRI because
you have a bigger problem.
And they found a large bloodclot in my subclavian artery,
which ended up causing strokes afew days later.
So I was completely defeatedbecause once all the acute
(10:35):
stroke recovery was finished,then I still was like feeling
there are no other options.
What am I going to do?
I couldn't imagine living thatway for the rest of my life.
And I still had kids, youngkids.
Um, so what you said reallyspoke to me, and I can I can
relate to when you're feelingthat way.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (10:57):
Yeah, I think a lot of what we're talking
about too, there's of course thepain, the physical pain, but
when you were talking, I wasthinking about the exhaustion
that you must have beenexperiencing, that level of
fatigue that is like, I cannotbelieve that I have to do this
day.
It is so overwhelming, thatsense of fatigue and managing
both the pain and your life whenit feels just too big.
(11:18):
And that's what I hear so oftenfrom people.
I just I can't believe I haveto do this.
This is too big.
And that part is incrediblydifficult.
So something we talk about alot is being able to get your
brain back, right?
Because when you're feelingthat exhaustion and that pain
constantly, you don't feel likeyourself.
You're not talking the way younormally talk about it.
I wasn't.
Sherry (11:40):
Yeah, no, I'm supposed to be you.
I wasn't.
And I was teaching at the time,and I would get in the car and
I would cry on my way home fromschool because my face was on
fire, and I knew that I I wouldpull in the driveway and not
even be out of the car yet, andthe kids are there, you know,
wanting me, needing me, and allI wanted to do was get in my
room, shut the door, turn offthe lights, and it was no way to
(12:04):
live, and it was not, it wasnot what I wanted for my family,
you know.
So I was at the point whereI've tried everything, you know,
and then to be finally, finallyready to take the next step and
get the MRI for the surgery,and then to have that like come
(12:28):
completely unraveled too wasjust like okay, so I was one of
the people that said, you know,I've tried and I'm I don't
know what else to do.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (12:40):
It's so beautiful to hear that as the
past tense, right?
And so saying this is where Iwas, and now here I am out of
it.
And that part is just hearingstories like that are just
incredible, knowing how possiblethat is.
And I think I'm so glad thatyou're doing this because there
are so many people out there whoare dealing with exactly what
you're talking about, who aregetting out of the car and
(13:02):
wanting so badly to be therewith their kids and with their
family, but their pain is takingover their life.
And so to hear you say that'sin my rear view is incredible.
And it's not in your rear viewbecause you had a magic wand,
it's because you put the workin, and that's the part that's
that's really important to hear.
Sherry (13:18):
Yeah.
Well, and it's not gone, it'sstill there 24-7.
It's still there, but I havehad to make adjustments in my
life to be able to make it workto get some quality of life back
for myself and the people thatI love.
Yeah.
Jodi (13:35):
What can people realistically expect to get out
of one session?
Dr. Leah Flaherty (13:39):
I love that question because what you can
expect out of one session is megiving it my all, trying to tell
you all of this information.
And then so the first hour ofthe class is education.
The first hour of the class istalking about your brain and
your body and the physiology andwhat's happening with our
central nervous system and howwe have more power than we ever
(14:01):
thought possible to be able tomanage it.
The second hour of the class isworking together to create a
personalized plan.
And that's my favorite part.
90% of the people that I'vetaught have been on Zoom.
The chat is just a reallyphenomenal place to be.
And so just having peoplesaying, Hey, I have that thought
too.
I I've never heard anybody saythat before.
(14:23):
I can't believe you also aresitting in your car preparing to
go into your family, right?
To prepare to get ready tobecause your life has become so
hard.
And so being able to hear otherpeople say that and those
connections being born just inthe Zoom chat has been
incredible.
Jodi (14:39):
That's great.
T
Sherry (14:40):
That was it.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (14:41):
Yeah.
And so once people have that,what we're doing is I get to
watch people help each other,right?
So here are some of thenegative thoughts that I have
about my pain.
And they're usually big, uglywords like I can't do anything.
I'm never gonna get better, I'malways gonna feel this way.
And when you start having thosebig scary words, it can feel
impossible to get out of it.
(15:02):
And so what you have is otherpeople saying, Hey, I thought
that way once too, and I've beentrying this thought.
I've been trying the thought,well, maybe this might work.
Even planting a little seed ofmaybe this might work is so much
more powerful than nothing'sgonna work.
I've tried everything.
You know, so just being able toplay with that thought process.
Jodi (15:23):
Getting rid of the negative self-talk is big no
matter what.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (15:27):
It's huge, it's huge.
And it's literally grows thebrain.
So we talk a lot about neuralnetworks.
And so pain neuroscienceeducation is really kind of the
leading modality in the fieldright now, teaching people about
what's happening in theirbrain.
And so we talk a lot aboutneural networks.
So when when we experience painevery day, what's happening is
(15:48):
our brain is trying to help usout.
And we create these shortcutsin our brain.
If you think about driving towork for the hundredth time and
not remembering how you gotthere, because your brain
created a shortcut.
Your brain said, I got this,don't worry about it.
You think about everythingyou've got going on, don't worry
about this.
It does the same thing withpain.
So when we experience pain somany times, our brain says,
(16:08):
Okay, there's that pain again.
I've got this.
And so what we're teachingpeople is how do we stop?
How do we interrupt thatsignal?
What can we do to tell ourbrain, no, we're not going back
down that road.
I'm not going to work today,right?
Like I'm not doing that.
And so, how do we tell ourbrain to get out of it?
And that's a lot of what we'redoing in the class too.
(16:29):
And so I'm taking a long path,but what I'm saying is, what
we're learning is how to buildsome skills, how to gain some
tools.
But I only get to see peoplefor two hours.
So what you can expect to getout of it is what you put into
it.
So Sherry will tell you youhave to live it.
You have to practice thebinaural audiophile, you have to
(16:49):
practice restructuring thosenegative cognitions, you have to
practice the distractiontechniques and the self-guided
relaxation exercises.
All of that together has beenincredibly impactful for
thousands of people across thecountry.
But I don't have a magic wand,right?
So I can't do it.
It's it's just about me givingyou the skills and then you
(17:10):
gotta leave them.
Sherry (17:11):
Right.
And it stuck with me too thatit was building the
understanding that it's not amiracle, you know, it's not a
magic wand.
You're it's not gonnamiraculously eliminate pain.
Right.
But it helped me to learn towork with it and not against it,
you know.
Yeah.
And it I mean, honestly, ithelped lead to doing this
(17:32):
podcast because it it taught mehow to calm my nervous system
and get myself to a calmer spacewhere I could take small steps
into figuring out how to make mylife work with the condition
that I'm living with.
And you know, I had to turnaway from teaching, I knew I
couldn't do that.
(17:52):
I'm getting like emotional now.
So I have I'm trying to dialthings fast, most important
thing.
Yeah, yes.
To have you here to talk to youabout this, to just to see how
it has like profoundly shiftedmy life is just ah,
Dr. Leah Flaherty (18:11):
but I think what's so important, Sherry, is
I I if everyone could have thesame benefit from you, that
would I I would be the happiestperson on earth, right?
But what I see so often is whenpeople feel so defeated and and
those negative thoughts feel sobig, it can be so hard to allow
for the opportunity uh ofsomething positive to happen,
(18:32):
right?
And so that's on us.
And so it sounds like a lot ofwhat you talk about in this
podcast is being able to allowyourself the opportunity for
growth, right?
Allowing yourself theopportunity, the openness to new
experiences.
And so that was you.
You were you were ready, youwanted it, you were open to
hearing something that couldallow you to make changes in
(18:52):
your life and build thismomentum that you've built.
Yeah.
And so that's what I would hopefor anyone is if I'm saying
anything, it's it's that whenyou even though you felt like
you've uh turned every stone,right?
Then the next one might be theanswer for you.
The next one might be thething.
And it's just about continuingto explore with curiosity what
could be the answer in ourlives.
(19:13):
Sure.
Jodi (19:14):
And trying a program like this, you might as well try it,
right?
I mean, it it doesn't hurt totake that step.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (19:20):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Sherry (19:21):
All right.
So we touched upon this alittle bit, but I think we need
to talk about something that alot of people carry silently,
which is the message that theirpain is, you know, it's all in
your head, or they should justtoughen up.
How does this program helpdismantle that internalized
(19:43):
shame that people sometimescarry or often carry when they
are in especially invisiblepain?
Dr. Leah Flaherty (19:51):
Yeah, that's such a good question.
When you're saying kind ofquietly carrying, I think a lot
of times it's pretty loudbecause we'll hear it from
people, right?
So I I mean I've heard peopletalk about whether it's medical
providers or family memberssaying that their pain is all in
their head and they have thatit feels like like when when you
don't have an organic causethat can show exactly this is
(20:13):
why it should hurt right here,that can be incredibly
distressing for people.
And I hear so often someonesays, Well, my doc says that my
scans look good.
So what's happening?
Why, why is this continuing tohappen in my life?
Why am I still in pain?
And so I think what's soimportant to remember is that
all pain is caused by the brain,right?
I mean, our heart beats becauseof our brain, our lungs work
(20:35):
because of our brain.
So we can only have painbecause our central nervous
system is connecting to ourbrain, right?
And so when we hear it's all inour head, I when people say
that to me, I think like, well,well, sure.
Like, yes, our brain, our braindoes everything.
And so if if that's the truth,if if our brain is the organ
that is responsible for pain,which it is, our brain is the
(20:56):
organ that's responsible for allpain.
And if that's the case, thenthat means that we can use our
own power to be able to changethe way that pain is processed
in the brain.
And so in Empowered Relief, Dr.
Darnell talks about our brainas a pain computer of sorts,
right?
And so if that's the case, thenit's like we can alter the code
of the pain computer.
And that's what we do with painneuroscience education, is
(21:18):
we're teaching people that thoseneural networks that we talked
about a little bit before, wecan alter those.
We can change that.
And so when we start to havedifferent cognitions about our
pain, when we shift the way thatwe talk to ourselves, when we
shift the way that we thinkabout our pain, what we're doing
is we're growing neuralnetworks in our brain.
And so, in the same way, whenwe're practicing activating our
(21:39):
parasympathetic nervous system,we're making changes in our
brain.
And so there's so muchimportant information here to
carry.
Firstly, importantly, is thatthis is not your fault.
No one asked for this, right?
You didn't ask to experiencepain that it that is that is
unrelenting and chronic andconstant.
Nobody asked for that.
And so that my answer always,when someone says your your pain
(22:02):
is all in your head, it's like,well, well, yeah, but I I I
don't want this.
I didn't ask for it.
I don't want to live like this.
And so if that's the case, thenwe have the power to to shift
away from it and learn someskills to be able to complement
what's happening in our brain.
Jodi (22:17):
Right.
That makes sense.
It does.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (22:22):
I hope that it doesn't feel shameful.
All pain is real, right?
So that's not to say that yourpain is imagined at all.
And so there's there's so manydifferent studies that show that
pain can exist in the absenceof tissue damage.
We don't need to have tissuedamage in the body for pain to
exist.
And so oftentimes they do gotogether, but there are studies
(22:45):
that show that people who that80% of people who have MRIs who
are who are asymptomatic willhave an MRI of their knee.
And it'll show that, yeah,there's some labral tears in
there, there's some tissuedamage in your knee.
Even if you don't have pain,everyone who's over the age of
40, I'd say, is going to havesome kind of tearing in their in
(23:08):
their knee, right?
It's going to have some kind ofdamage in their back.
And so it's really important torecognize that that's in
asymptomatic populations.
Pain can exist in the absenceof tissue damage.
So just because you have tissuedamage doesn't mean you have
pain.
Just because you have paindoesn't mean you have tissue
damage.
This is all our central nervoussystem is directing it.
(23:29):
And so what I hope people hearfrom that is not that your pain
is imagined or not that there'ssomething wrong with you, but
rather there's something we cando about it, which is really
exciting.
Sherry (23:38):
Right.
Right.
Jodi (23:40):
And very hopeful.
Sherry (23:41):
Yeah.
It was a huge gift because whenyou're living with invisible
pain, that means that you'recarrying something heavy that no
one else can see.
It's a whole other level ofhard.
And I feel like people carryjudgments and make a whole lot
of assumptions.
And I've just decided that youknow what, that's okay, because
it just makes them the firstthree letters of that word.
Jodi (24:02):
Well, I think that they judge their own selves, right?
It's kind of a deep-rootedfamily thing where there's a a
shame associated with evengetting sick.
You don't even want to say theword, I'm not feeling well.
It's like a it's just like adirty word.
Don't be sick, don't say you'rein pain.
So I'm sure a lot of peoplefeel shame just for being in
(24:25):
that condition, and there's alot to overcome.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (24:27):
Because women are supposed to be able to do
it all too, right?
Yeah.
I definitely received thatmessage in my childhood too, is
that women are supposed to beable to do everything.
We're all superheroes.
So when do we have time to getsick or be in pain or or or care
about ourselves or think aboutourselves when everyone else in
our circle is relying on us?
Jodi (24:44):
Sure.
Yep.
Or even, you know, the machothing.
I was talking to you off cameraa little bit about my dad, and
he was a macho guy, pain don'thurt, you know?
And eventually it it'll takeyou over if you let it.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (24:59):
Yeah.
Yep.
Sherry (25:00):
Yep.
One question that I getsometimes from others with
severe and chronic pain is Isthere hope if your pain is so
severe that it impairs like evenwalking to the door feels
impossible?
Like people with mobilityissues.
People with extreme mobilityproblems or extreme difficulty,
(25:23):
you know, standing up straightor just, you know, just to get
up out of the chair is painful.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (25:32):
Yeah.
Yes.
Short answer.
I think so much of this has todo with expectation management,
right?
I think we are our own harshestcritics.
We are so hard on ourselvesthat when we're talking about
something like that, if someonehas had a major injury event or
someone has had a diseaseprocess that has been really
difficult on them and continuesto build, we can see significant
(25:55):
pain.
And then what happens is we getkinesophobic, which is the fear
of movement, right?
And so when we start to developthat fear of movement, what
ends up happening is it startsto build on itself, which then
starts to lead to depressionbecause nothing feels good
anymore.
Nothing is exciting anymore.
I I don't I don't want to getout of bed because that's gonna
(26:17):
hurt.
So is it worth it to even move?
And that's not most of thepeople that I see because most
of the people that I see areable to get up or able to move.
I heard someone talk about thislike perception of what a
chronic pain patient is, andthat's someone who lies around
all day.
I've never met that chronicpain patient.
I've never met someone who iswanting to be on the couch all
(26:40):
day, right?
That's not my experience atall.
What I hear so often is peoplebeing really difficult on
themselves, being really hard onthemselves.
So I I wanted to do 10 thingstoday and I was only able to get
the laundry done, or I was onlyable to do the dishes.
Sherry (26:55):
Yeah.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (26:56):
Like, why doesn't that count?
Why can't you give yourself thebenefit of saying I did that
today?
And I think so often we havethis inventory of negativity in
our head when we're going tosleep, we get the what are all
the things I didn't do today?
And we can really use that tobeat ourselves up.
And so I'm always asking peopleto shift their cognitions to
what did I do today?
(27:17):
Right.
So knowing the fact that I amliving with chronic pain, that I
have a chronic condition, thatI had this injury, and yet I was
still able to get my kids fromthe bus stop.
I was still able to read a bookwith them.
I was still able to have dinneron the table, right?
So all of these things thatmake you you.
And so I think as long as wedon't lose ourselves in the
(27:37):
pain, we are able to have somehope and be able to get some of
that quality of life back.
Yes.
Jodi (27:43):
Right.
That's great.
So I am newer to hearing aboutyour program.
Tell me a little bit about whatis it like?
Is there one class, twoclasses?
What's the follow-up and thesupport afterwards?
Dr. Leah Flaherty (27:57):
It's a one-time class.
It's a two-hour interventionand it's just one time.
I am working in uh working withcreating more programming so
that we can have some follow-upsessions after that.
So like refresher courses orthings like that.
But at this point, what we'vegot is a is a one-time, two-hour
intervention.
And because we're funded by theWest Penn Hospital Foundation,
(28:19):
I've been offering this for freefor three years.
And so there's no cost, yeah.
So there's no cost to patientsto log in.
And so you were talking aboutin the show notes.
I can send a link to registerso that anyone who's interested
can can join.
Jodi (28:33):
That's beautiful.
I love the accessibility ofthat.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (28:36):
Yeah, me too.
Yeah.
Sherry (28:38):
Yeah.
So what's the harm to try?
And what is the website?
Because I I will link it in theshow notes.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (28:44):
It's AHN Events.
So if you Google AHN EventsEmpowered Relief, you'll find
it.
Sherry (28:50):
Okay.
Yeah.
And the last time I looked,there were just like different
dates that are available, andyou just click and sign up, and
it was a really simple process.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (28:58):
That's it.
It's easy peasy.
I also wanted to say, too, in alot of the conversation that
we're having, when I say painneuroscience education, that
sounds really complicated.
It sounds like neuroscience.
I'm not a neuroscientist.
How am I going to be able tounderstand this?
So we made a bunch of uh videosthat have kind of this
demystification ordestigmatization of what that
(29:19):
means.
And those are available.
I'll send you that link too.
And so that's on AHN's YouTubechannel.
It's called Brain Over Pain.
And you can find those videostoo.
Sherry (29:29):
And you may have already mentioned this.
Anyone is eligible because it'sfree.
So it doesn't matter if you'reUPMC or HighMark or any of that
stuff.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (29:38):
Yeah.
I if you're AHN, I wouldrecommend talking to your doc
about it, just saying, hey, Iheard about this program because
they can put in a referral foryou.
You can self register or getthe referral.
But it is nice to make thoseconnections with the physicians
because we've had a lot ofexciting, we've had over 4,000
referrals in network from ourphysicians because they know it
works for their patients.
Sherry (29:57):
That's fantastic.
So so glad that it's here.
And more and more people arediscovering it and giving it a
try.
Jodi (30:07):
So definitely.
Anything you want people toknow to wrap up?
Dr. Leah Flaherty (30:14):
All I want people to know is to continue
advocating for themselves.
I I know it's I know it'stough.
So one of the things that Ireally like to recommend is that
folks bring their supportpeople with them, their loved
ones.
Because I think oftentimes itcan feel like we're fighting
this alone.
And so if you can have someonein your life take it with you
and you can say to them, this iswhat I'm talking about, right?
(30:36):
I told you it's not all in myhead.
We have some data now frompeople who've taken our class
with a loved one and have saidthat it's made them feel more
connected to their supportpeople, it's made them have
conversations with their lovedones that they haven't had
before.
So that's always my hope is tomake sure that people aren't
telling themselves they have todo this alone.
(30:57):
You don't have to do that.
Jodi (30:58):
Yeah, I do feel it seems to me in my experience, even
talking to other people, thatwhen you're going through
something really terrible andyou're having a lot of pain,
even sometimes when you'resurrounded by support, you feel
isolated and alone, right?
So I think looping people inprobably makes a big impact.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (31:18):
Yeah, and it can lead to that accountability
too.
Cause I know it's tough to keepup with your plan, right?
To say, have I listened to thisevery day?
Am I doing all these things I'msupposed to be doing every day?
And so to have someone help youwith that accountability can be
really great too.
Jodi (31:34):
Yep.
Fantastic.
Well, thank you so much.
I'm excited to get this wordout to more people.
Sherry (31:40):
Yes, we will link everything in the show notes,
but as Dr.
Flaherty said, you can just uhsearch AHN events empowered
relief.
Dr.
Flaherty, thank you so much forhaving this conversation with
us today.
Jodi (31:54):
It's my favorite thing to thank you for the wonderful work
you're doing.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (31:58):
Thank you.
Thanks for talking about it.
I appreciate you both so much.
Sherry (32:03):
This podcast is for informational and entertainment
purposes only.
Nothing shared on this podcastshould be considered
professional advice.
The views expressed by thehosts and guests are their own
and do not necessarily reflectthose of any organizations or
affiliations.
If you or someone you know isin crisis, please reach out to a
trusted professional or crisishotline in your area.
Help is available 24-7nationwide at the 988 Suicide
(32:24):
and Crisis Lifeline.
Down 988 to connect with thetrained crisis counselor for
free and confidential support.
If you are local to thePittsburgh area, Resolve Crisis
Services offer 24 7 CrisisIntervention and Stabilization
Services to all Allegheny Countyresidents.
You can reach them by calling 1888 796 8226.
If you are struggling withmental health, addiction, grief,
(32:46):
or any other serious personalchallenges, we encourage you to
seek support from a qualifiedprofessional.
Before we jump in today, I want to speak directly to
anyone living with chronic painand their caretakers.
Please stick around for thisepisode.
Our guest today will be sharinginformation that just might
help.
You're probably sick of peopletelling you that it's just
stress, that it's all in yourhead, or even throw judgments at
you for the way you are gettingthrough your pain.
Because I've been there.
(00:21):
I know how frustrating it is,and I'm still there.
I know that living with severechronic pain can feel hopeless.
I live with a form oftrigeminal neuralgia, which can
take many of life's simplestpleasures and turn them into
constant burning pain.
Soaking in the sun, a softbreeze, air conditioning,
(00:41):
talking, smiling, singing in thecar, having ice cream,
intimacy, all of that and moreincrease the intensity of the
burning that is there 24 hours aday.
Every day of my life since2017.
It creates a cycle of dread,isolation, and hopelessness
that's hard to interrupt becauseeven things that are supposed
to bring joy become reminders oflimitations.
(01:04):
So when I first heard about theEmpowered Relief Program, I was
skeptical, to say the veryleast.
But after exhausting othercourses of treatment that either
didn't work or weren't optionsfor me, I wasn't buying that
this one would help either.
But I showed up anyway, and itended up changing how I live
with pain.
Notice I didn't say take thepain away.
This isn't some miracle, but itis something real.
(01:27):
It's something that gave mehope and got me out of the
darkness enough to forge a newpath forward.
It's free and available toanyone, regardless of insurance
or location.
And so today I want to sharethis program with our listeners
who experience chronic pain aswell as their caretakers.
Today we're thrilled to betalking with someone who leads
the Empowered Relief Program forPain Management in the
(01:49):
Pittsburgh area.
Joining us is Dr.
Leah Flaherty, a painpsychologist at Allegheny Health
Network and certified empoweredrelief instructor.
Today she will talk to us abouta unique neuroscience-based
experience that uses tools likebinaural beats and brain-based
techniques that help change howthe brain responds to pain.
(02:10):
So, Dr.
Flaherty, what exactly isempowered relief and what sets
it apart from other painprograms?
Dr. Leah Flaherty (02:18):
So I'll start with my story of how I found
it, if that's reasonable, andI'll go into what it is.
I was working as a painpsychologist at the West Penn
Institute for Pain Medicine, andI found myself with this giant
wait list, and I wasn't able tosee people for as many times as
I needed to or wanted to.
So oftentimes I found myselfsaying the same thing over and
(02:39):
over again, and I felt like Iwasn't doing what I needed to
for my patients.
And so I was looking, trying tofigure out if there was a way
that I could cast a wider netand I could say all of the most
important parts of cognitivebehavioral therapy for chronic
pain in a shorter period oftime.
And that's how I foundEmpowered Relief.
So what Empowered Relief is, isit's an evidence-based two-hour
(03:01):
pain education intervention.
So it was created at StanfordUniversity by Dr.
Beth Darnell and hercolleagues.
And so, as folks were alltrying to answer this question,
how do we get the most amount ofinformation to the most amount
of people in a short period oftime?
That's how Dr.
Darnell created this program.
So taking about 16 hours ofcognitive behavioral therapy for
(03:22):
chronic pain, all kinds ofdifferent skills and tools and
teaching about thepathophysiology of chronic pain,
what's going on with the brainand why we're continuing to
experience pain and boiling itdown to the two-hour class.
And so I consider it to be likethe greatest hits of CBT for
chronic pain.
I just love teaching it.
So at this point, I've taught1200 people this class and I
(03:46):
want to keep doing it.
So it's it's been an honor forme to get to teach it.
Sherry (03:50):
So I guess my initial response.
So the thing is when you sayabout a class for pain, I don't
know if it's a common responseof the one that I had at the
time was it's a class.
How in the world is a classgoing to help me?
Can you speak to that beforewe get any further?
Because right away, that waslike I it was almost a
(04:13):
non-starter.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (04:14):
Yep.
I love I love that you'reasking that.
That's really important.
And thank you for grounding mein that.
I think it happens a lot.
I consider this to be a healthliteracy intervention.
So I think there is so muchthat can be answered by
understanding what's happeningin our body, right?
So something we talk about inempowered relief, how the
(04:34):
definition of pain is so muchmore than just the where, right?
So pain, the definition of painis both a negative sensory and
emotional experience.
So there's that whole secondhalf of the definition of pain
has to do with.
So if we think about thesensory part, is the where,
right?
The where am I experiencingpain?
Is it back pain, foot pain,knee pain, fibromyalgia, pain
(04:55):
all over my body?
And then the emotional aspectof it is the who, what, where,
what, right?
So it's the what is who am Inow?
What does this mean for me?
What's gonna happen in my life?
Am I going to feel this wayforever?
When is this gonna stophurting?
So there's all of thesequestions that go along with the
experience of pain.
And so when when people come insaying this is just a class,
(05:20):
how can this possibly make anykind of difference in my life?
Everything that I end up sayingis, well, if we can teach
people about the brain and thebody, about what happens in your
body when you experience pain,what's going on with the
cortisol, the adrenaline, all ofthese inflammatory chemicals
that are rushing through ourbloodstream, if we have the
power to be able to delay someof that and to pause some of
(05:41):
that and to control it, that'show we gain our lives back from
the pain.
And there's so much beauty andpower in that experience.
And I I love to be able to seethat kind of that light switch
go on in people's head when theystart to recognize that they
have power over something thathas taken their lives from them.
Sherry (06:00):
That's exactly it.
That's exactly the way myexperience played out when I
participated in the program.
I really was blown blown away.
I mean, I had hope again.
I can't tell you how much sowhen I was a researcher at the
at the Veterans Integrated PainManagement Center, or excuse me,
at I worked there, but alsowas at the VA at the Mental
(06:23):
Illness Research EducationClinical Center.
And as I was wanting to go onto postdoctoral work, all I kept
thinking about was I want to beable to give hope to the
hopeless.
That's the point here.
If I can educate, if I canteach someone about what's
happening in their body and itcan give them the opportunity
where they can feel hope, that'sit.
That's all I want to do.
(06:44):
And so that's so you sayingthat is exactly why I'm doing
what I'm doing.
Yeah.
It's I'm I consider myselfreally grateful to have gone
through the program and now tobe able to talk about it and
hopefully give someone else achance to give it a try.
The other piece to that is thebinaural beats.
Jodi (07:04):
Can you explain what that is and how that actually works
in the brain?
Dr. Leah Flaherty (07:10):
So, what I can tell you is really what you
learned in the class, Sherry.
So I can say that what thebinaural audio file does, it's a
guided relaxation exercise.
And then underneath the voiceof the guided relaxation
exercise, there's alternatingtones that go in one ear and
then in the next ear.
And so what happens is througha lateralization of the brain
(07:31):
effect, we're able to create anenvironment where we can learn
quicker and where we can gainthat expertise at our
parasympathetic nervous systemactivation quicker.
I am not an audiologist, so Ican't tell you exactly which
wave is happening and how it'sfunctioning on the brain.
And I apologize for that.
But what I do know is thatpeople are able to gain control
(07:51):
over their nervous system andthey're able to relax quicker
and be able to manage theirstress and their pain in a
different way.
And that has been an incredibleopportunity for me to get to
see that work for so manypeople.
Sherry (08:02):
Yeah, and you're you're seeing it in other places now
with like the sound baths andthe gongs and all the different
things.
And I can say the first time Iexperienced those binaural
beats, I didn't realize what washappening, but I did feel
different.
And around the same time aswhen I discovered the sound
baths, and it was a realpowerful experience to feel how
(08:25):
certain sound frequencies canhave that profound impact.
And I think you kind of alreadytouched on it, but I was
wondering what are the types ofshifts, or can you explain like
a shift that you saw inparticipants after they engage
with the tools?
Dr. Leah Flaherty (08:40):
So the way that I think about it as a
psychologist and not anaudiologist is if someone finds
something that works, by thetime I see people, by the time,
and and I know you lived this,Sherry, you've tried so many
different things, have been toso many different doctors, and
start to feel pretty hopeless,right?
Start to feel like, how am Igoing to get an answer for this?
How is my pain ever going to goaway?
And so what I have foundfrequently with the binaural
(09:03):
audiophile is when people startto listen to it, they start to
say, Oh my goodness, I can'tbelieve I was able to fall
asleep like that.
I can't believe that myinsomnia was able to reduce in
such an incredible way.
I had this email from a womansaying that she listens to it
when she feels herself gettingactivated, right?
She was in an ambulance and putit on because she was feeling
so activated in the ambulance.
(09:23):
She's like, okay, I just needto help myself with this, right?
And so when people start togain a little bit of confidence
in their ability to make changesin their pain and in their
stress level, that's how itgrows, right?
Sherry (09:35):
So once you realize you have you do have a little agency
over it.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (09:39):
Exactly, exactly.
And once you have that smallbit of agency, it starts to
grow.
And I mean, you see peoplesay, I feel in control of my
life in a way that I haven't inyears.
Sherry (09:50):
Yep.
I want to comment on somethingDr.
Flaherty said before aboutpeople just feeling defeated and
you know, am I going to have tolive with this forever?
Is it ever going to end?
And just ruminating on thosethings.
And I was there.
It started in 2017 and it wenton for about two years.
And I finally got to the pointthat I was exploring surgical
(10:13):
options.
And it turned out that the daythat I was scheduled to have my
MRI, they were like, Well, wehave to cancel that MRI because
you have a bigger problem.
And they found a large bloodclot in my subclavian artery,
which ended up causing strokes afew days later.
So I was completely defeatedbecause once all the acute
(10:35):
stroke recovery was finished,then I still was like feeling
there are no other options.
What am I going to do?
I couldn't imagine living thatway for the rest of my life.
And I still had kids, youngkids.
Um, so what you said reallyspoke to me, and I can I can
relate to when you're feelingthat way.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (10:57):
Yeah, I think a lot of what we're talking
about too, there's of course thepain, the physical pain, but
when you were talking, I wasthinking about the exhaustion
that you must have beenexperiencing, that level of
fatigue that is like, I cannotbelieve that I have to do this
day.
It is so overwhelming, thatsense of fatigue and managing
both the pain and your life whenit feels just too big.
(11:18):
And that's what I hear so oftenfrom people.
I just I can't believe I haveto do this.
This is too big.
And that part is incrediblydifficult.
So something we talk about alot is being able to get your
brain back, right?
Because when you're feelingthat exhaustion and that pain
constantly, you don't feel likeyourself.
You're not talking the way younormally talk about it.
I wasn't.
Sherry (11:40):
Yeah, no, I'm supposed to be you.
I wasn't.
And I was teaching at the time,and I would get in the car and
I would cry on my way home fromschool because my face was on
fire, and I knew that I I wouldpull in the driveway and not
even be out of the car yet, andthe kids are there, you know,
wanting me, needing me, and allI wanted to do was get in my
room, shut the door, turn offthe lights, and it was no way to
(12:04):
live, and it was not, it wasnot what I wanted for my family,
you know.
So I was at the point whereI've tried everything, you know,
and then to be finally, finallyready to take the next step and
get the MRI for the surgery,and then to have that like come
(12:28):
completely unraveled too wasjust like okay, so I was one of
the people that said, you know,I've tried and I'm I don't
know what else to do.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (12:40):
It's so beautiful to hear that as the
past tense, right?
And so saying this is where Iwas, and now here I am out of
it.
And that part is just hearingstories like that are just
incredible, knowing how possiblethat is.
And I think I'm so glad thatyou're doing this because there
are so many people out there whoare dealing with exactly what
you're talking about, who aregetting out of the car and
(13:02):
wanting so badly to be therewith their kids and with their
family, but their pain is takingover their life.
And so to hear you say that'sin my rear view is incredible.
And it's not in your rear viewbecause you had a magic wand,
it's because you put the workin, and that's the part that's
that's really important to hear.
Sherry (13:18):
Yeah.
Well, and it's not gone, it'sstill there 24-7.
It's still there, but I havehad to make adjustments in my
life to be able to make it workto get some quality of life back
for myself and the people thatI love.
Yeah.
Jodi (13:35):
What can people realistically expect to get out
of one session?
Dr. Leah Flaherty (13:39):
I love that question because what you can
expect out of one session is megiving it my all, trying to tell
you all of this information.
And then so the first hour ofthe class is education.
The first hour of the class istalking about your brain and
your body and the physiology andwhat's happening with our
central nervous system and howwe have more power than we ever
(14:01):
thought possible to be able tomanage it.
The second hour of the class isworking together to create a
personalized plan.
And that's my favorite part.
90% of the people that I'vetaught have been on Zoom.
The chat is just a reallyphenomenal place to be.
And so just having peoplesaying, Hey, I have that thought
too.
I I've never heard anybody saythat before.
(14:23):
I can't believe you also aresitting in your car preparing to
go into your family, right?
To prepare to get ready tobecause your life has become so
hard.
And so being able to hear otherpeople say that and those
connections being born just inthe Zoom chat has been
incredible.
Jodi (14:39):
That's great.
T
Sherry (14:40):
That was it.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (14:41):
Yeah.
And so once people have that,what we're doing is I get to
watch people help each other,right?
So here are some of thenegative thoughts that I have
about my pain.
And they're usually big, uglywords like I can't do anything.
I'm never gonna get better, I'malways gonna feel this way.
And when you start having thosebig scary words, it can feel
impossible to get out of it.
(15:02):
And so what you have is otherpeople saying, Hey, I thought
that way once too, and I've beentrying this thought.
I've been trying the thought,well, maybe this might work.
Even planting a little seed ofmaybe this might work is so much
more powerful than nothing'sgonna work.
I've tried everything.
You know, so just being able toplay with that thought process.
Jodi (15:23):
Getting rid of the negative self-talk is big no
matter what.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (15:27):
It's huge, it's huge.
And it's literally grows thebrain.
So we talk a lot about neuralnetworks.
And so pain neuroscienceeducation is really kind of the
leading modality in the fieldright now, teaching people about
what's happening in theirbrain.
And so we talk a lot aboutneural networks.
So when when we experience painevery day, what's happening is
(15:48):
our brain is trying to help usout.
And we create these shortcutsin our brain.
If you think about driving towork for the hundredth time and
not remembering how you gotthere, because your brain
created a shortcut.
Your brain said, I got this,don't worry about it.
You think about everythingyou've got going on, don't worry
about this.
It does the same thing withpain.
So when we experience pain somany times, our brain says,
(16:08):
Okay, there's that pain again.
I've got this.
And so what we're teachingpeople is how do we stop?
How do we interrupt thatsignal?
What can we do to tell ourbrain, no, we're not going back
down that road.
I'm not going to work today,right?
Like I'm not doing that.
And so, how do we tell ourbrain to get out of it?
And that's a lot of what we'redoing in the class too.
(16:29):
And so I'm taking a long path,but what I'm saying is, what
we're learning is how to buildsome skills, how to gain some
tools.
But I only get to see peoplefor two hours.
So what you can expect to getout of it is what you put into
it.
So Sherry will tell you youhave to live it.
You have to practice thebinaural audiophile, you have to
(16:49):
practice restructuring thosenegative cognitions, you have to
practice the distractiontechniques and the self-guided
relaxation exercises.
All of that together has beenincredibly impactful for
thousands of people across thecountry.
But I don't have a magic wand,right?
So I can't do it.
It's it's just about me givingyou the skills and then you
(17:10):
gotta leave them.
Sherry (17:11):
Right.
And it stuck with me too thatit was building the
understanding that it's not amiracle, you know, it's not a
magic wand.
You're it's not gonnamiraculously eliminate pain.
Right.
But it helped me to learn towork with it and not against it,
you know.
Yeah.
And it I mean, honestly, ithelped lead to doing this
(17:32):
podcast because it it taught mehow to calm my nervous system
and get myself to a calmer spacewhere I could take small steps
into figuring out how to make mylife work with the condition
that I'm living with.
And you know, I had to turnaway from teaching, I knew I
couldn't do that.
(17:52):
I'm getting like emotional now.
So I have I'm trying to dialthings fast, most important
thing.
Yeah, yes.
To have you here to talk to youabout this, to just to see how
it has like profoundly shiftedmy life is just ah,
Dr. Leah Flaherty (18:11):
but I think what's so important, Sherry, is
I I if everyone could have thesame benefit from you, that
would I I would be the happiestperson on earth, right?
But what I see so often is whenpeople feel so defeated and and
those negative thoughts feel sobig, it can be so hard to allow
for the opportunity uh ofsomething positive to happen,
(18:32):
right?
And so that's on us.
And so it sounds like a lot ofwhat you talk about in this
podcast is being able to allowyourself the opportunity for
growth, right?
Allowing yourself theopportunity, the openness to new
experiences.
And so that was you.
You were you were ready, youwanted it, you were open to
hearing something that couldallow you to make changes in
(18:52):
your life and build thismomentum that you've built.
Yeah.
And so that's what I would hopefor anyone is if I'm saying
anything, it's it's that whenyou even though you felt like
you've uh turned every stone,right?
Then the next one might be theanswer for you.
The next one might be thething.
And it's just about continuingto explore with curiosity what
could be the answer in ourlives.
(19:13):
Sure.
Jodi (19:14):
And trying a program like this, you might as well try it,
right?
I mean, it it doesn't hurt totake that step.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (19:20):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Sherry (19:21):
All right.
So we touched upon this alittle bit, but I think we need
to talk about something that alot of people carry silently,
which is the message that theirpain is, you know, it's all in
your head, or they should justtoughen up.
How does this program helpdismantle that internalized
(19:43):
shame that people sometimescarry or often carry when they
are in especially invisiblepain?
Dr. Leah Flaherty (19:51):
Yeah, that's such a good question.
When you're saying kind ofquietly carrying, I think a lot
of times it's pretty loudbecause we'll hear it from
people, right?
So I I mean I've heard peopletalk about whether it's medical
providers or family memberssaying that their pain is all in
their head and they have thatit feels like like when when you
don't have an organic causethat can show exactly this is
(20:13):
why it should hurt right here,that can be incredibly
distressing for people.
And I hear so often someonesays, Well, my doc says that my
scans look good.
So what's happening?
Why, why is this continuing tohappen in my life?
Why am I still in pain?
And so I think what's soimportant to remember is that
all pain is caused by the brain,right?
I mean, our heart beats becauseof our brain, our lungs work
(20:35):
because of our brain.
So we can only have painbecause our central nervous
system is connecting to ourbrain, right?
And so when we hear it's all inour head, I when people say
that to me, I think like, well,well, sure.
Like, yes, our brain, our braindoes everything.
And so if if that's the truth,if if our brain is the organ
that is responsible for pain,which it is, our brain is the
(20:56):
organ that's responsible for allpain.
And if that's the case, thenthat means that we can use our
own power to be able to changethe way that pain is processed
in the brain.
And so in Empowered Relief, Dr.
Darnell talks about our brainas a pain computer of sorts,
right?
And so if that's the case, thenit's like we can alter the code
of the pain computer.
And that's what we do with painneuroscience education, is
(21:18):
we're teaching people that thoseneural networks that we talked
about a little bit before, wecan alter those.
We can change that.
And so when we start to havedifferent cognitions about our
pain, when we shift the way thatwe talk to ourselves, when we
shift the way that we thinkabout our pain, what we're doing
is we're growing neuralnetworks in our brain.
And so, in the same way, whenwe're practicing activating our
(21:39):
parasympathetic nervous system,we're making changes in our
brain.
And so there's so muchimportant information here to
carry.
Firstly, importantly, is thatthis is not your fault.
No one asked for this, right?
You didn't ask to experiencepain that it that is that is
unrelenting and chronic andconstant.
Nobody asked for that.
And so that my answer always,when someone says your your pain
(22:02):
is all in your head, it's like,well, well, yeah, but I I I
don't want this.
I didn't ask for it.
I don't want to live like this.
And so if that's the case, thenwe have the power to to shift
away from it and learn someskills to be able to complement
what's happening in our brain.
Jodi (22:17):
Right.
That makes sense.
It does.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (22:22):
I hope that it doesn't feel shameful.
All pain is real, right?
So that's not to say that yourpain is imagined at all.
And so there's there's so manydifferent studies that show that
pain can exist in the absenceof tissue damage.
We don't need to have tissuedamage in the body for pain to
exist.
And so oftentimes they do gotogether, but there are studies
(22:45):
that show that people who that80% of people who have MRIs who
are who are asymptomatic willhave an MRI of their knee.
And it'll show that, yeah,there's some labral tears in
there, there's some tissuedamage in your knee.
Even if you don't have pain,everyone who's over the age of
40, I'd say, is going to havesome kind of tearing in their in
(23:08):
their knee, right?
It's going to have some kind ofdamage in their back.
And so it's really important torecognize that that's in
asymptomatic populations.
Pain can exist in the absenceof tissue damage.
So just because you have tissuedamage doesn't mean you have
pain.
Just because you have paindoesn't mean you have tissue
damage.
This is all our central nervoussystem is directing it.
(23:29):
And so what I hope people hearfrom that is not that your pain
is imagined or not that there'ssomething wrong with you, but
rather there's something we cando about it, which is really
exciting.
Sherry (23:38):
Right.
Right.
Jodi (23:40):
And very hopeful.
Sherry (23:41):
Yeah.
It was a huge gift because whenyou're living with invisible
pain, that means that you'recarrying something heavy that no
one else can see.
It's a whole other level ofhard.
And I feel like people carryjudgments and make a whole lot
of assumptions.
And I've just decided that youknow what, that's okay, because
it just makes them the firstthree letters of that word.
Jodi (24:02):
Well, I think that they judge their own selves, right?
It's kind of a deep-rootedfamily thing where there's a a
shame associated with evengetting sick.
You don't even want to say theword, I'm not feeling well.
It's like a it's just like adirty word.
Don't be sick, don't say you'rein pain.
So I'm sure a lot of peoplefeel shame just for being in
(24:25):
that condition, and there's alot to overcome.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (24:27):
Because women are supposed to be able to do
it all too, right?
Yeah.
I definitely received thatmessage in my childhood too, is
that women are supposed to beable to do everything.
We're all superheroes.
So when do we have time to getsick or be in pain or or or care
about ourselves or think aboutourselves when everyone else in
our circle is relying on us?
Jodi (24:44):
Sure.
Yep.
Or even, you know, the machothing.
I was talking to you off cameraa little bit about my dad, and
he was a macho guy, pain don'thurt, you know?
And eventually it it'll takeyou over if you let it.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (24:59):
Yeah.
Yep.
Sherry (25:00):
Yep.
One question that I getsometimes from others with
severe and chronic pain is Isthere hope if your pain is so
severe that it impairs like evenwalking to the door feels
impossible?
Like people with mobilityissues.
People with extreme mobilityproblems or extreme difficulty,
(25:23):
you know, standing up straightor just, you know, just to get
up out of the chair is painful.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (25:32):
Yeah.
Yes.
Short answer.
I think so much of this has todo with expectation management,
right?
I think we are our own harshestcritics.
We are so hard on ourselvesthat when we're talking about
something like that, if someonehas had a major injury event or
someone has had a diseaseprocess that has been really
difficult on them and continuesto build, we can see significant
(25:55):
pain.
And then what happens is we getkinesophobic, which is the fear
of movement, right?
And so when we start to developthat fear of movement, what
ends up happening is it startsto build on itself, which then
starts to lead to depressionbecause nothing feels good
anymore.
Nothing is exciting anymore.
I I don't I don't want to getout of bed because that's gonna
(26:17):
hurt.
So is it worth it to even move?
And that's not most of thepeople that I see because most
of the people that I see areable to get up or able to move.
I heard someone talk about thislike perception of what a
chronic pain patient is, andthat's someone who lies around
all day.
I've never met that chronicpain patient.
I've never met someone who iswanting to be on the couch all
(26:40):
day, right?
That's not my experience atall.
What I hear so often is peoplebeing really difficult on
themselves, being really hard onthemselves.
So I I wanted to do 10 thingstoday and I was only able to get
the laundry done, or I was onlyable to do the dishes.
Sherry (26:55):
Yeah.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (26:56):
Like, why doesn't that count?
Why can't you give yourself thebenefit of saying I did that
today?
And I think so often we havethis inventory of negativity in
our head when we're going tosleep, we get the what are all
the things I didn't do today?
And we can really use that tobeat ourselves up.
And so I'm always asking peopleto shift their cognitions to
what did I do today?
(27:17):
Right.
So knowing the fact that I amliving with chronic pain, that I
have a chronic condition, thatI had this injury, and yet I was
still able to get my kids fromthe bus stop.
I was still able to read a bookwith them.
I was still able to have dinneron the table, right?
So all of these things thatmake you you.
And so I think as long as wedon't lose ourselves in the
(27:37):
pain, we are able to have somehope and be able to get some of
that quality of life back.
Yes.
Jodi (27:43):
Right.
That's great.
So I am newer to hearing aboutyour program.
Tell me a little bit about whatis it like?
Is there one class, twoclasses?
What's the follow-up and thesupport afterwards?
Dr. Leah Flaherty (27:57):
It's a one-time class.
It's a two-hour interventionand it's just one time.
I am working in uh working withcreating more programming so
that we can have some follow-upsessions after that.
So like refresher courses orthings like that.
But at this point, what we'vegot is a is a one-time, two-hour
intervention.
And because we're funded by theWest Penn Hospital Foundation,
(28:19):
I've been offering this for freefor three years.
And so there's no cost, yeah.
So there's no cost to patientsto log in.
And so you were talking aboutin the show notes.
I can send a link to registerso that anyone who's interested
can can join.
Jodi (28:33):
That's beautiful.
I love the accessibility ofthat.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (28:36):
Yeah, me too.
Yeah.
Sherry (28:38):
Yeah.
So what's the harm to try?
And what is the website?
Because I I will link it in theshow notes.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (28:44):
It's AHN Events.
So if you Google AHN EventsEmpowered Relief, you'll find
it.
Sherry (28:50):
Okay.
Yeah.
And the last time I looked,there were just like different
dates that are available, andyou just click and sign up, and
it was a really simple process.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (28:58):
That's it.
It's easy peasy.
I also wanted to say, too, in alot of the conversation that
we're having, when I say painneuroscience education, that
sounds really complicated.
It sounds like neuroscience.
I'm not a neuroscientist.
How am I going to be able tounderstand this?
So we made a bunch of uh videosthat have kind of this
demystification ordestigmatization of what that
(29:19):
means.
And those are available.
I'll send you that link too.
And so that's on AHN's YouTubechannel.
It's called Brain Over Pain.
And you can find those videostoo.
Sherry (29:29):
And you may have already mentioned this.
Anyone is eligible because it'sfree.
So it doesn't matter if you'reUPMC or HighMark or any of that
stuff.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (29:38):
Yeah.
I if you're AHN, I wouldrecommend talking to your doc
about it, just saying, hey, Iheard about this program because
they can put in a referral foryou.
You can self register or getthe referral.
But it is nice to make thoseconnections with the physicians
because we've had a lot ofexciting, we've had over 4,000
referrals in network from ourphysicians because they know it
works for their patients.
Sherry (29:57):
That's fantastic.
So so glad that it's here.
And more and more people arediscovering it and giving it a
try.
Jodi (30:07):
So definitely.
Anything you want people toknow to wrap up?
Dr. Leah Flaherty (30:14):
All I want people to know is to continue
advocating for themselves.
I I know it's I know it'stough.
So one of the things that Ireally like to recommend is that
folks bring their supportpeople with them, their loved
ones.
Because I think oftentimes itcan feel like we're fighting
this alone.
And so if you can have someonein your life take it with you
and you can say to them, this iswhat I'm talking about, right?
(30:36):
I told you it's not all in myhead.
We have some data now frompeople who've taken our class
with a loved one and have saidthat it's made them feel more
connected to their supportpeople, it's made them have
conversations with their lovedones that they haven't had
before.
So that's always my hope is tomake sure that people aren't
telling themselves they have todo this alone.
(30:57):
You don't have to do that.
Jodi (30:58):
Yeah, I do feel it seems to me in my experience, even
talking to other people, thatwhen you're going through
something really terrible andyou're having a lot of pain,
even sometimes when you'resurrounded by support, you feel
isolated and alone, right?
So I think looping people inprobably makes a big impact.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (31:18):
Yeah, and it can lead to that accountability
too.
Cause I know it's tough to keepup with your plan, right?
To say, have I listened to thisevery day?
Am I doing all these things I'msupposed to be doing every day?
And so to have someone help youwith that accountability can be
really great too.
Jodi (31:34):
Yep.
Fantastic.
Well, thank you so much.
I'm excited to get this wordout to more people.
Sherry (31:40):
Yes, we will link everything in the show notes,
but as Dr.
Flaherty said, you can just uhsearch AHN events empowered
relief.
Dr.
Flaherty, thank you so much forhaving this conversation with
us today.
Jodi (31:54):
It's my favorite thing to thank you for the wonderful work
you're doing.
Dr. Leah Flaherty (31:58):
Thank you.
Thanks for talking about it.
I appreciate you both so much.
Sherry (32:03):
This podcast is for informational and entertainment
purposes only.
Nothing shared on this podcastshould be considered
professional advice.
The views expressed by thehosts and guests are their own
and do not necessarily reflectthose of any organizations or
affiliations.
If you or someone you know isin crisis, please reach out to a
trusted professional or crisishotline in your area.
Help is available 24-7nationwide at the 988 Suicide
(32:24):
and Crisis Lifeline.
Down 988 to connect with thetrained crisis counselor for
free and confidential support.
If you are local to thePittsburgh area, Resolve Crisis
Services offer 24 7 CrisisIntervention and Stabilization
Services to all Allegheny Countyresidents.
You can reach them by calling 1888 796 8226.
If you are struggling withmental health, addiction, grief,
(32:46):
or any other serious personalchallenges, we encourage you to
seek support from a qualifiedprofessional.
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