April 22, 2022 • 30 mins
This Is Reno photojournalist Ty O’Neil recently returned from Ukraine where he was covering the conflict with Russia.
In this episode, we have a very special guest host. Lucia Starbuck interviews O’Neil about his recent visit to Ukraine to cover the Russian invasion. They discuss what he saw, the challenges he faced and how Ukrainians treated an independent journalist trying to cover the conflict.
His startling imagery was published in a series of photo galleries and articles on This Is Reno.
Listen to the podcast online here or on all major podcast apps. We also are on KWNK 97.7 FM community radio on Sunday mornings.
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Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:14):
Welcome to The this is Reno podcast and radio show. We
are broadcasting on kW NK 97.7FM on Sunday mornings as well as
on all major podcast apps. Ontoday's show we have a very
special guest and a very specialguest host Lucci Starbuck is
here with this as Reno's photojournalist, Ty O'Neill. They
(00:36):
discussed ties recent visit tothe Ukraine to cover the Russian
invasion. Here are Ty and Lucia.
Hi, Ty, thanks for joining metoday.
Yeah. Hi, Alicia. It's good tosee you.
So you just returned fromUkraine, can you tell me a
little bit about just theoverview of your trip.
So I hate to say it, butactually don't exactly know how
many days I was over there.
Because especially when you'retraveling alone, you just kind
(00:58):
of lose track of what'shappening. But basically, I flew
into Poland, because obviouslythe airspace over Ukraine is
closed. So I flew into Poland,worked a day or two in Warsaw,
which is the capital Poland.
Then I got on a bus to prisonmiski, which I'm not saying that
town correctly, but that's asclose as I can get, which is
(01:21):
sort of one of the major bordersbetween Ukraine and Poland right
now. And it's where the railwaysystem comes in. And the railway
system and Ukraine is doing mostof the the back and carry await
for refugees right now. I workedthere for like two days, kind of
covering, you know, the thesituation at the border. Then I
went into law Aviv, which is thebiggest major city in Ukraine,
(01:46):
nearest to the Polish border.
It's like an ancient city. It'slike one of the few that's like,
never really seen a huge amountof war. It's it's a big city,
but it's not huge. Right now.
It's huge, though, becauseobviously a lot of Ukrainians
who don't necessarily want toflee the country entirely, are
now in Ukraine. So there's like,no hotel rooms, obviously. And a
lot of news media is there. Soyou're saying like no rooms,
(02:10):
it's really dense, packed allthe time. And, you know, there's
still a curfew. So like, I feelit changes, I want you to guess
what it is right now. But like,when I was there, I think it was
10. And you'd see people wouldhit like nine o'clock and
everybody's like, Oh, crap, wegot to get back. So it's been a
while and Lviv coveringeverything I could refugees,
lots of about refugees, it wasmostly what I worked on there.
(02:33):
Then I went to Kyiv, the centralcity of Ukraine, which is more
or less where the war washappening at that time,
obviously thinks of kind ofRussians have kind of moved out
of there recently. But when Iwas there, that was still like a
pretty ongoing war. Due tologistic issues, I wasn't able
to get to the front line, like Iwould have liked, we were still
(02:53):
able to get to where Russianshad hit towns, missiles,
bombings, we were stopped by theUkrainian military informing us
that like down the road thatwe're rushing, so we definitely
still got out there. But Iwasn't in like, you know, cities
like mero pool that are justdecimated. I wasn't at that kind
of stuff, just from basically amoney restraint. So I spent some
time in Kyiv. Gotta hope I'msaying that right. I do
(03:16):
apologize to anyone if I get thetown's backwards. I've been
hearing the Russianpronunciation and the Ukrainian
pronunciation the whole timeI've been writing the Ukrainian
ones, but I don't exactly knowhow to say it. Spend some time
and give. Then I ended up backin Levine for a little bit then
back at Poland for a little bitand eventually back to the US.
(03:36):
Can you describe what what yousaw on what you heard while you
were there?
It just depends on where youwere. And the interesting thing
was like, the Vive more or lessis kind of untouched by the war
as far as like damage goes. Andof course there was that fuel
depot hit. I was actually on atrain headed to Kiv on that day,
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which I don't know if that'sgood luck or bad luck that I
wasn't there. But it was reallyone of the only times Louisville
has been hit. That being said,like obviously that's where the
refugees are coming through.
There's a ton of Ukrainianmilitary, there's training
grounds. The railway goesthrough there. So it's this big
hub right now even though it'skind of in this you know, I
guess air quotes safe zone. Sothere's that's a really Ditmas
(04:23):
different atmosphere than Kialike Li Li even though it has a
curfew. There's like nightlifeall the cafes are open, there's
tons of people, but at like twoo'clock in the afternoon, the
air raid sirens go off. In Kyivmost of the city is completely
empty. I mean, you can walkdown, I walked across like
anyone's been able to say thissince like the 2014 revolution
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over there. I walked across likethe six to eight lane, major
road that goes straight throughthe middle of the town like
through the central square, youcan just walk straight across it
and normally you'd have to golike into underground
passageways to get to the otherside, or like waited a crosswalk
or whatever. But like now youcould just walk it was it was
empty, just empty and the wholetime and you're in Kyiv, not not
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constantly every minute, but tothe point where you just get
completely used to it. It's justlike massive explosions. And
because you're in the middle ofa city, it's hard to tell
exactly where they're comingfrom. So like, I kept thinking,
why aren't I hearing this comingfrom the north, like these
noises, but like, oh, becauseit's bouncing off. building
after building after building solike, One explosion might sound
like three or it might soundlike a different direction. And
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you just get used to it, butthen there'd be an explosion
that would shake the windows,and it was like, Ooh, that was a
big one or a close one. And thensometimes a couple of times I
heard gunshots and it's like,okay, why are there gunshots in
the middle of Kev when the waris like out of paper. But same
thing in Lviv there what youwouldn't ever hear an explosion
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leave, but multiple nights inyou know, like right around
curfew. I was in my littlerental and you just hear
gunfire. And what it turned outto be at least on one instance
was someone was flying like adrone, not like the giant
military drones just like aquadcopter or whatever. Over a
like a military base. And allthe soldiers just unloaded
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trying to shoot this thing down.
And of course, we never gotconfirmation if they did or
didn't. But yeah, you're justlike, sitting in your little
room in my little room just liketyping away at like 830 at
night, trying to get my articleand all sudden there's just
gunfire everywhere. And ofcourse, because I make good
decisions like going to awarzone. I go where's my camera
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when I run out of my building,like down the street trying to
find where this gunfire is. Sono matter where you were, that
you could definitely like feelthe effects of the war, but it
was in really, really differentways. So it just depends on
where you are in like, obviouslythe border. You were in Poland,
the war isn't in Poland, atleast at this time. But that's
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where the refugees are. Sothat's where you're seeing
people like holding on to like,their all their personal
belongings and like Ikea bags orplastic bags, or, you know,
sitting like one family memberis sitting on like six suitcases
while the other family memberstrying to go like, figure out
what's the next step? Because somany people got to the border,
and they're like, What do I donow? Like I made it out of the
(07:18):
war into Poland, but like, whatnow do I stay in Poland do I try
to like, and then that's like awhole nother battle for those
people. Unfortunately,I really like how you describe
that. That must be such an eeriefeeling when air raid sirens go
offone and the the weird thing was
to like when I got to live Evethat was still not early on,
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because I was late. But youcould still see quite a few
people who would like run intoshelters, or at least get
undercover or get away fromwindows. But after like five
days of air alarms, or air raidsirens and nothing happening,
people get pretty bold. So likethe air raid siren goes off, and
everybody like looks around andyou can hear all the cell phones
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because obviously they're usingtheir network to like say like,
take shelter immediately. And itreally is like so you want an
ice cream or what? And then ofcourse, you know, all the TV
stations that are alive are likethere's another air raid siren
you're like it's this six today.
Like I think there was one daywhere we had six on like a day.
So it is hard, like you know,you get used to it. But then of
(08:22):
course the the Russians didactually hit the fuel depot. So
when I came back from cube,which was like, days after the
thing, an air raid siren wentoff. And I noticed a very
different atmosphere like that aride saying when went off and
probably 70% of people werelike, it least taking notice
trying to like head towards ashelter going in a building.
(08:42):
Whereas like before, it was likethe opposite. You know, 30% were
like, Oh, we got to be safe and70% were like, don't worry about
it kind of swapped on him likeso that was a definitely an
interesting thing. And there'salso because Aviv is where
refugees are going. There'speople who were coming from mera
pool, Odessa, Kharkiv Kyiv, whowhen they heard an Aryan siren,
(09:04):
it meant probably something waslike coming. Whereas lovies
would set up air raid sirensmuch more like, hey, there's
like, it was hard. I don't wannasay anything like I know
officially. Ukraine's very tightlipped about some things. But
what I did talk to them, theyexplained it like, in case you
have an air raid siren meantmissiles coming and they were
gonna try to shoot down in Lavie. An air raid siren might
(09:28):
just mean that there's like ahigh altitude drone, or an
airplane or there's a missile,but they don't exactly know
where it's going. So you end upwith these air raid sirens where
the the siren goes off for likefive minutes, but technically
that the air raid is like twohours, and then they'll sound
another different alarm to saylike, okay, it's stopped.
Whereas in Kyiv and other othercities in Ukraine, if the air is
(09:50):
sent went off, that meant likeit's coming or whatever is
happening is happening rightnow, but then it was over. So it
was that was like a totallydifferent experience from louisv
to others. Other cities inUkraine
seems like a really confusingand chaotic time.
Yeah. And Levine and I wrote alittle bit about on this was
like Levine is actively tryingto be a respite. So like, people
(10:14):
that like run the parks, likethe city parks or the museums,
they're doing, like free,obviously, the museums are
closed, because the more but,you know, you can still go look
at a church or look at ahistoric building or go to a
park. So at least for a longtime, I don't know if they're
still doing it. But at the timeI was there, they were offering
free tours. Obviously, inUkrainian this wasn't for
(10:34):
tourists to like, so peoplecould go explore Levine. And it
was like, that was an act ofthing that the government was
doing, because it was like thesepeople just fled, like Russian
invasion violence, and they'vecome to the city, they need
something to do. And we havethis really historic pretty city
with a bunch of parks. And ifyou were willing to, like
(10:55):
volunteer their time to likelead a tour group around, so
they were actively like, theyacknowledge that Louisville is
this like safe haven for people.
But at the same time, they'renot like, You're not getting
away from the war. They're nottrying to pretend like it's not
happening. Like, there's signseverywhere. There's sandbags,
there's fully armed militaryeverywhere. So it's not that
they're trying to like give youa place Oh, the word doesn't
(11:17):
exist, everything's fine. But itis definitely like a respite
place of like, you know, whereit's, it's it's trying to be a
celebration of Ukrainianculture, at a time when
Ukrainian culture is quiteliterally under attack by the
Russians. So not just the war,but they're trying to call them
Nazis. They're trying to saythat their Ukrainians are coming
like genocide against theRoma's. All that kind of stuff.
(11:38):
So like, right now is a reallydefensive time for Ukrainian
culture alongside military.
What did some of the signs say?
I'm not good enough at Ukrainianto tell you. But I can say to
the credit, the Ukrainians,these are not people that beat
around the bush, one of myphotos that did better than then
some of my others was there's apain. It's like a poster of a
(12:03):
Ukrainian woman shoving a pistolin Putin's mouth. Like that's
very direct. It's not a hintingaround anything there. And then,
you know, it's a lot of like,Glory to Ukraine, that kind of
stuff, like very, like,patriotic but very, like anti
Russian invasion. And it's very,you know, they're the ones that
(12:23):
got attacked, so they'refighting. So you don't see a lot
of stop the war. Like I saw alot of stop the war when I was
in Poland. In Ukraine,obviously, they would if the
worst stop would be great. Butthere was much more of an
incentive, unlike fight anddefend Ukraine, because they
can't stop the war. It wasn'ttheir choice in the first place.
So that's a it was kind of adifference in in signage was
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like, the one thing I would sayand they directly did this for
Western media was there weresigns everywhere about close the
sky. That was probably thebiggest message it was like on
every government building inEnglish. Close the skies because
Russian airpower is just greaterthan Ukraine's. And I think
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Ukraine really, at least when Iwas there had a feeling like
we're making foot work on theground, but we don't have the
Air Force that that Russia does.
So like if you're not going tocome and help us you know, with
with ground troops, close thesky, let us do the fighting.
That was like, that was a reallydistinct message that was very
phrase for Westerners likewritten in English, around where
(13:28):
the media was major roads,billboards in English so that we
would see it and photographit seems very purposeful that it
was in English.
Anytime you saw something inEnglish, I took it like a little
grain of salt, because I'm like,Well, I know the audience is not
Ukrainian. That being said, it'salso like, okay, that's the
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message that Ukraine is tryingto get out. I'm going to state
that that's the message Ukrainewants to get out. But I think
especially with the closer skything, it was definitely more of
like a pleading like no forlike, we really really want this
it's gonna make a hugedifference for us. That was
probably the thing that Ukrainewanted the most publicly at
leasthow how was media treated while
you were there? SpecificallyWestern media.
(14:15):
I was there and I I'm hesitantto overly criticize, because
there are saboteurs really, Imean, that's a real problem.
That being said, I think I gotit worse than some other people.
Sure. I got it way easier thansome but worse than others.
Since this is a podcast youshould describe what you look
like me Oh, I'm,I was very often mistaken for
(14:36):
Ukrainian but I was apparentlyalso very often mistaken for
Russian. Very, very blondhaired, blue eyed, five, five
individual who is of militaryage, so I was under suspicion at
all times. And basically,depending on where you were in
Lavy, things were a lot easier.
(14:59):
As a reporter, there was a lotmore press. So you didn't tend
to get singled out? Becauselike, if if the military is
checking paperwork and there's13 camera people at the train
station, you know, you can seethey're like, Okay, you have
paperwork. Yes. All right. Thankyou. That's all I've done.
That's all you need. You haveit. I don't care. You're good.
(15:20):
Kev, was the opposite. Kia gotto the point where I was like, I
don't know how to function as areporter anymore. What do you
because every and this is notreally a joke. Every
intersection, I was beingstopped, surrounded? What's your
paperwork? What are you doing?
Where are you going? Let me seeyour photos. And then you go
through all that. And that wasfine. And then you go to the
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next intersection had the exactsame interaction, it would take
like, it took extremely longtime to get anywhere. And like
where my little rental was, inKyiv, there was only one road, I
could walk all the others if Itried to walk down at with
cameras, they'd be like, No, canyou like, go all the way around?
And I was like, Yeah, I'll walkaround the half an hour, it's
gonna take me to get to. And Iget that, like, I'm not, you
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know, but it was, especially asa solo. And I get why that would
be more suspicious. It's very,it's very unusual, even over
there for reporters to be alone,especially with big cameras. So
I definitely was like the, youknow, I don't know how to say
it. I understand why suspicionwas being raised around me. That
being said, it's still tiring.
(16:27):
It's really, really tiring,especially like I was taking
photos of the sand. They'resandbagging, like, historic
landmarks, so that they're notjust hopefully not destroyed.
And I was taking photos of onecovered in sandbags. And I
thought, I'm going to jail.
Because apparently, they didn'twant me to take photos of that.
And I thought I was totally fineto take photos. It's like a
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historic monument on GoogleMaps. Like, it's everywhere.
It's on every tour for Kyiv orfor Kyiv. And, you know, like,
next thing I know, I'msurrounded by Ukrainian
military, who now have mypassport, my press pass my
Ukrainian press credentials.
(17:10):
They're making phone calls. Andeventually, we got someone who
spoke like enough English. Andhe's like, where's your fixer?
And I'm like, like, expenses areexpensive. You don't walk or
like, freelancers don't walkaround with lift fixers all day,
every day in the middle of thecity. And they're like, oh,
like, this is a problem. And I'mlike, I don't know what you
(17:31):
like. It's a statue man, like, Idon't have any military gear.
Like, I don't know what to do.
And that was like, That one tooklike half an hour to resolve.
And then that night, we almostdidn't make it back. Because I
went to meet some reporters, wealmost didn't make it back for
curfew. And that there was awhole incident at a checkpoint
that was like, really worryingto me, where I was like, this
(17:54):
was like, We fucked up this,that was our fault. That was
totally our fault that we wereout that late. But I was like,
this is this is extremely busygetting to the point where it's
extremely difficult just to likeoperate at all, or do my job.
What was going through your mindas you approach each checkpoint?
Well,it's just because you don't know
are they going to check me? Oram I going to get a guy that
(18:16):
speaks English? Am I going toget a Ukrainian military? Am I
going to get a territorialdefense? Am I going to get a
policeman am I going to get justsome guy that's guarding the
street. And like all of thosepose different risks. Ukrainian
military was usually the best.
That was usually your lowestchance of like an issue because
we carried with us to coverKevin frontline stuff, you've
(18:39):
needed to have militaryaccreditation, which as far as I
understand was like a backgroundcheck, to check that you were
really working for who you saidyou were working for, and that
kind of thing. Which was toughfor a lot of freelancers to get.
And I very much think, my agent,my wire agency, for getting me
some very dedicated paperwork tobe like, No, really, this is our
(19:00):
reporter, he's working. So a lothas the military with your Med
minute, or your excuse me, yourmilitary accreditation. Most of
the time, that was good enough,as long as you had a passport
with the same name. Other timesthey even call the number, what
you had to be more concernedabout was territorial defense,
because they're more I don'twant to call them like a
National Guard, but they don'thave nearly as much training. So
(19:22):
they don't even know what theaccreditation was sometimes. So
they're looking at this thing,and they're like, so you know,
aren't you know, are youmilitary? And it's like, no, no,
I'm just like, I'm uproot that.
They made me more nervous thananybody else. And then the
police were like, pretty coolwith it. Usually, the issue with
the police was like, with them,they didn't really want to check
(19:42):
your paperwork. So if theyweren't checking your paperwork,
you probably did something theydidn't really like. That being
said it was like okay, but Imean, it got to the point where
you wouldn't even put yourpaperwork away just like have it
like out all the time. And likeI said, I get that I get the
suspicion and I don't want tocriticize that but As far as it
being a member of the press,it's just you get exhausted
where you're like, I don't wantto go photograph the center of
(20:05):
key of today, or wherever,because I know I'm gonna get
stopped 13 times, it's gonnatake me like an hour to get down
there, I have the height back tolike to make sure that I get
back on time for the curfew orwhatever it is. Or you could
just pay for a fixer all thetime. Which if you're a giant
mega News Corporation, that'sawesome. But us freelancers
(20:29):
can't afford 100 $200 a day tohave somebody like walk around
with you just so that you don'tget and you probably will get
stopped almost just as muchanyway, so.
And I also want to talk about Imean, here you are, you're a
freelancer, you're by yourself.
And as you said, that's notsuper, that's a little bit
unusual. Can you talk about someof the challenges of being a
(20:51):
lone Freelancer with limitedresources?
Yeah, so I mean, I hate to saybut money's definitely like a
big influence on access. If youhave a really good fixer, they
can you talk about what a fixer,sorry, yeah, let's, let's, uh,
so a fixer is, is a complicatedjob that is probably a generic
term. But basically, it'susually a translator, or
(21:13):
somebody that can speak the,like, in this case, Ukrainian
and English, or whatever thereports speak. So we had like a
lot of French, I think Francehad the most journalists there
of any country. So obviously, ifyou could speak French and
Ukrainian, you were going to geta job. English obviously being
like second to that. So usually,they'll translate for you. If
they're a really good fixer,they probably have contacts that
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either were a reporter, or maybethey're like, they were ex
police, something like thatsomeone that's going to have
contacts, they're gonna be ableto put you at low Oh, do you
want to get to this town? Okay,let me talk to some people,
that's what a good fixer isgoing to do. They'll probably
also drive you most fixers willhave a car and drive you around,
in some cases, you'll have tohire a driver to obviously, then
(21:57):
that starts adding more expense,because then you have to pay for
a driver as well. But basically,they're kind of a facilitator to
get you around, get you tothings. Now, those really good
fixers tend to be very in veryhigh demand. And you know, and
then as a freelancer, I think alot of money, obviously, like,
it's probably not that big adeal for ABC News, or I
(22:18):
shouldn't even say a company,but like some major corporation
to pay someone 100 $200 a day.
But as a freelancer, I know I'mgoing to sell the article for
$50. So paying a driver and afixer $100 Each a day, so that I
could make and with a bigarticle, you might have to go to
three places. So that adds upreally, really fast. So
unfortunately, money's part ofit. Now that being said, fixers
(22:40):
deserve to be paid, it's just asa freelancer, you really have to
like, you're like, Okay, I hopethis town is worth it. Because
this is the like, one of the fewtimes I'm going to be able to
pay for a driver and uh, andthen a lot
of times like this is coming,like out of pocket, right?
Oh out of pocket forfreelancers, especially what we
try to do as freelancers, if youdo know people, and I would
(23:02):
really encourage if anybodywants to get into this know,
people, if you can, I ended upmeeting a couple of people I
really liked, we worked welltogether, we ended up splitting,
and still quite expensive, butat least there were three of us
in the car, you know, so it was1/3 the cost instead of 100%.
But it's still kind of tough,and you couldn't get a not great
(23:23):
fixer and I think we got a notvery great fixer kind of wasted
our money. We still got somereally good work done. But I
don't know if it was acommunication breakdown or just
there. You could get a not greatfixer is the way I'll say it
without being to accusetutorial, but it's very damaging
to get one it's not good. Andthen second to that is just
(23:47):
getting access to stuff. And afixer could facilitate a lot of
that. But obviously noteverything. So I forgot the
question.
Just the challenges of beingalone. Freelance is
the part the second part ofbeing alone and some people are
tough people that are justtotally happy to go completely
(24:09):
alone. And I hats off to them. Ithink especially when you add
the freelance knowing you're notgetting paid, probably not
getting paid for this addsanother level of stress. But
being alone is really hardbecause you're going out to very
stressful situations, spendingall day in very stressful
situations, coming back byyourself to you know,
(24:30):
realistically probably like arented apartment or a hotel
room. I was saying like Airbnb,so I wasn't even seeing other
reporters. It's not like therewas a lobby where I'd run into
people. It was like, Okay, I'mgonna walk up that one road or
I'm allowed to walk up back intomy apartment, cooked dinner,
file, edit photos of thetraumatic thing you'd probably
just photograph write a storyabout it go to bed and then
(24:53):
sorry, not go to bed file. Thenyou got to figure out what am I
doing tomorrow? What's the nextstory? What's happening? And who
can I contact and it gets taxingwhen it's just you doing all
that. And I actually metfreelancers who by all
technicals, you know, stuff areworking alone. But they have
another freelancer, that's theirfriend that they're working
(25:14):
together or splitting a hotelroom, or they're splitting the
room with like a writer orsomeone or a videographer. Like,
a lot of times, I'll seevideographers and photographers
work together, they're basicallyafter the same thing, but
they're not technicallycompeting. So it's a really, you
know, a writer's it's a greatcombo, because you're not
directly competition, but youboth kind of want to go to the
same stuff. But just the factthat you're with someone seems
(25:36):
to take a huge amount of like,toll off people like I was
working with a photographer, andhe had a writer friend, and they
were working together. And itwas like he was going to come
out with us to see this townthat had been bombed. And his
friend was a little more likenervous about the war. So he was
going to stay and and make phonecalls to get into like, the
shelters in Ukraine, thathospitals or you know, any those
(25:57):
kind of stories. So like hecould stay behind, and do all
this groundwork, and all thisresearch while we're out doing
this other story. And then it'slike, but when you're by
yourself, you're trying to doboth of those, and it can get to
be overwhelming. And of course,the thing is, that going back to
money, if you're doing it all,on your own, it takes a lot more
time, well, then you're needingto pay for food and rent and
(26:19):
everything for another day. Sothat adds up. So it's really,
really tough to go alone. Itotally get some people that can
do it. Hats off to them. Maybein like five years of
experience. I'll be like, Oh, Ican do it totally alone. But
it's genuinely emotionallyexhausting, just on like, just
not you're alone all the time ina very stressful situation. And
(26:42):
you're totally responsible foryour safety and transportation.
And there's so many unknowns. Imean, one of my constant fears
was what if the train tracks nota train? What if the train
tracks get hit by the Russians?
I don't have a way to get out ofKev back to Lviv,
(27:03):
you've covered conflict outsideof the country before and and
here locally. Can you talk aboutyour your prior experience and
how it was different than inthan in Ukraine?
Yeah, that's interesting. Um,basically, so one of the first
real like heavy photojournalismthings I got to cover was in
Bangkok in 2013. They overthrewtheir, their current government,
(27:26):
and now it's a military, Ithink, to this day is still a
military government at themoment. And that was, that
wasn't a war. It was arevolution. People were shot, I
did see quite a bit of violenceover there. But it wasn't like a
full out war. It was unarmedpeople going up against police.
And the police were primarilyVAs primarily using water
(27:47):
cannons, rubber bullets, therewere some real bullets in there.
But that was not it was not likea war. In the USA covered, you
know, Black Lives Matter riotsand covered some pretty some far
right? rallies, it got prettyheated. I've had a lot of guns
pointed at me. But that's alwayslike on the borderline of
becoming like a really, reallyviolent outburst. you frame it
(28:10):
as a war. And I talked withreporters who had been COVID
covered Syria for years. And andthey were like, No, this is the
no one's covered anything likethis since like World War Two,
or maybe the Korean War.
Thanks so much for sharing andjust being open about what you
hope, what you hope your photosdo. And just the role that you
hope to play as a journalist.
It's, it's, it's just helpful tohear.
(28:34):
Yeah. And that's, that's why Iwanted to do this, and I
appreciate you sitting down withme is, is I want people to
understand kind of why it isthat reporters do this because
you know, and there's alwaysgoing to be that example. There
are probably glory hounds outthere. And I heard I actually
(28:55):
didn't want other than the Canyou kiss him thing which upset
me. I didn't see any instances.
And I met a lot of reporters,and I didn't meet any instances
of anybody who's out there fortheir own self glorification.
That being said, and I knowpeople that know people that saw
that kind of thing. But I reallywanted to share at least my
experience and hopefully asimilar experience to a lot of
(29:19):
my colleagues on why it is thatwe we choose to get on a plane
for 14 hours to get on a bus foreight hours to get on a train
for five hours. So that we cango to because it's not a normal
choice. But it's one that Ithink if we do our job right,
we've earned the ability to dothat. So
(29:43):
thank you time. Thank youthat's it for today's show.
Please visit us online at thisis reno.com to see Ty's photo
galleries of the Ukrainian War
Welcome to The this is Reno podcast and radio show. We
are broadcasting on kW NK 97.7FM on Sunday mornings as well as
on all major podcast apps. Ontoday's show we have a very
special guest and a very specialguest host Lucci Starbuck is
here with this as Reno's photojournalist, Ty O'Neill. They
(00:36):
discussed ties recent visit tothe Ukraine to cover the Russian
invasion. Here are Ty and Lucia.
Hi, Ty, thanks for joining metoday.
Yeah. Hi, Alicia. It's good tosee you.
So you just returned fromUkraine, can you tell me a
little bit about just theoverview of your trip.
So I hate to say it, butactually don't exactly know how
many days I was over there.
Because especially when you'retraveling alone, you just kind
(00:58):
of lose track of what'shappening. But basically, I flew
into Poland, because obviouslythe airspace over Ukraine is
closed. So I flew into Poland,worked a day or two in Warsaw,
which is the capital Poland.
Then I got on a bus to prisonmiski, which I'm not saying that
town correctly, but that's asclose as I can get, which is
(01:21):
sort of one of the major bordersbetween Ukraine and Poland right
now. And it's where the railwaysystem comes in. And the railway
system and Ukraine is doing mostof the the back and carry await
for refugees right now. I workedthere for like two days, kind of
covering, you know, the thesituation at the border. Then I
went into law Aviv, which is thebiggest major city in Ukraine,
(01:46):
nearest to the Polish border.
It's like an ancient city. It'slike one of the few that's like,
never really seen a huge amountof war. It's it's a big city,
but it's not huge. Right now.
It's huge, though, becauseobviously a lot of Ukrainians
who don't necessarily want toflee the country entirely, are
now in Ukraine. So there's like,no hotel rooms, obviously. And a
lot of news media is there. Soyou're saying like no rooms,
(02:10):
it's really dense, packed allthe time. And, you know, there's
still a curfew. So like, I feelit changes, I want you to guess
what it is right now. But like,when I was there, I think it was
10. And you'd see people wouldhit like nine o'clock and
everybody's like, Oh, crap, wegot to get back. So it's been a
while and Lviv coveringeverything I could refugees,
lots of about refugees, it wasmostly what I worked on there.
(02:33):
Then I went to Kyiv, the centralcity of Ukraine, which is more
or less where the war washappening at that time,
obviously thinks of kind ofRussians have kind of moved out
of there recently. But when Iwas there, that was still like a
pretty ongoing war. Due tologistic issues, I wasn't able
to get to the front line, like Iwould have liked, we were still
(02:53):
able to get to where Russianshad hit towns, missiles,
bombings, we were stopped by theUkrainian military informing us
that like down the road thatwe're rushing, so we definitely
still got out there. But Iwasn't in like, you know, cities
like mero pool that are justdecimated. I wasn't at that kind
of stuff, just from basically amoney restraint. So I spent some
time in Kyiv. Gotta hope I'msaying that right. I do
(03:16):
apologize to anyone if I get thetown's backwards. I've been
hearing the Russianpronunciation and the Ukrainian
pronunciation the whole timeI've been writing the Ukrainian
ones, but I don't exactly knowhow to say it. Spend some time
and give. Then I ended up backin Levine for a little bit then
back at Poland for a little bitand eventually back to the US.
(03:36):
Can you describe what what yousaw on what you heard while you
were there?
It just depends on where youwere. And the interesting thing
was like, the Vive more or lessis kind of untouched by the war
as far as like damage goes. Andof course there was that fuel
depot hit. I was actually on atrain headed to Kiv on that day,
(03:58):
which I don't know if that'sgood luck or bad luck that I
wasn't there. But it was reallyone of the only times Louisville
has been hit. That being said,like obviously that's where the
refugees are coming through.
There's a ton of Ukrainianmilitary, there's training
grounds. The railway goesthrough there. So it's this big
hub right now even though it'skind of in this you know, I
guess air quotes safe zone. Sothere's that's a really Ditmas
(04:23):
different atmosphere than Kialike Li Li even though it has a
curfew. There's like nightlifeall the cafes are open, there's
tons of people, but at like twoo'clock in the afternoon, the
air raid sirens go off. In Kyivmost of the city is completely
empty. I mean, you can walkdown, I walked across like
anyone's been able to say thissince like the 2014 revolution
(04:45):
over there. I walked across likethe six to eight lane, major
road that goes straight throughthe middle of the town like
through the central square, youcan just walk straight across it
and normally you'd have to golike into underground
passageways to get to the otherside, or like waited a crosswalk
or whatever. But like now youcould just walk it was it was
empty, just empty and the wholetime and you're in Kyiv, not not
(05:08):
constantly every minute, but tothe point where you just get
completely used to it. It's justlike massive explosions. And
because you're in the middle ofa city, it's hard to tell
exactly where they're comingfrom. So like, I kept thinking,
why aren't I hearing this comingfrom the north, like these
noises, but like, oh, becauseit's bouncing off. building
after building after building solike, One explosion might sound
like three or it might soundlike a different direction. And
(05:30):
you just get used to it, butthen there'd be an explosion
that would shake the windows,and it was like, Ooh, that was a
big one or a close one. And thensometimes a couple of times I
heard gunshots and it's like,okay, why are there gunshots in
the middle of Kev when the waris like out of paper. But same
thing in Lviv there what youwouldn't ever hear an explosion
(05:51):
leave, but multiple nights inyou know, like right around
curfew. I was in my littlerental and you just hear
gunfire. And what it turned outto be at least on one instance
was someone was flying like adrone, not like the giant
military drones just like aquadcopter or whatever. Over a
like a military base. And allthe soldiers just unloaded
(06:14):
trying to shoot this thing down.
And of course, we never gotconfirmation if they did or
didn't. But yeah, you're justlike, sitting in your little
room in my little room just liketyping away at like 830 at
night, trying to get my articleand all sudden there's just
gunfire everywhere. And ofcourse, because I make good
decisions like going to awarzone. I go where's my camera
(06:35):
when I run out of my building,like down the street trying to
find where this gunfire is. Sono matter where you were, that
you could definitely like feelthe effects of the war, but it
was in really, really differentways. So it just depends on
where you are in like, obviouslythe border. You were in Poland,
the war isn't in Poland, atleast at this time. But that's
(06:56):
where the refugees are. Sothat's where you're seeing
people like holding on to like,their all their personal
belongings and like Ikea bags orplastic bags, or, you know,
sitting like one family memberis sitting on like six suitcases
while the other family memberstrying to go like, figure out
what's the next step? Because somany people got to the border,
and they're like, What do I donow? Like I made it out of the
(07:18):
war into Poland, but like, whatnow do I stay in Poland do I try
to like, and then that's like awhole nother battle for those
people. Unfortunately,I really like how you describe
that. That must be such an eeriefeeling when air raid sirens go
offone and the the weird thing was
to like when I got to live Evethat was still not early on,
(07:38):
because I was late. But youcould still see quite a few
people who would like run intoshelters, or at least get
undercover or get away fromwindows. But after like five
days of air alarms, or air raidsirens and nothing happening,
people get pretty bold. So likethe air raid siren goes off, and
everybody like looks around andyou can hear all the cell phones
(07:59):
because obviously they're usingtheir network to like say like,
take shelter immediately. And itreally is like so you want an
ice cream or what? And then ofcourse, you know, all the TV
stations that are alive are likethere's another air raid siren
you're like it's this six today.
Like I think there was one daywhere we had six on like a day.
So it is hard, like you know,you get used to it. But then of
(08:22):
course the the Russians didactually hit the fuel depot. So
when I came back from cube,which was like, days after the
thing, an air raid siren wentoff. And I noticed a very
different atmosphere like that aride saying when went off and
probably 70% of people werelike, it least taking notice
trying to like head towards ashelter going in a building.
(08:42):
Whereas like before, it was likethe opposite. You know, 30% were
like, Oh, we got to be safe and70% were like, don't worry about
it kind of swapped on him likeso that was a definitely an
interesting thing. And there'salso because Aviv is where
refugees are going. There'speople who were coming from mera
pool, Odessa, Kharkiv Kyiv, whowhen they heard an Aryan siren,
(09:04):
it meant probably something waslike coming. Whereas lovies
would set up air raid sirensmuch more like, hey, there's
like, it was hard. I don't wannasay anything like I know
officially. Ukraine's very tightlipped about some things. But
what I did talk to them, theyexplained it like, in case you
have an air raid siren meantmissiles coming and they were
gonna try to shoot down in Lavie. An air raid siren might
(09:28):
just mean that there's like ahigh altitude drone, or an
airplane or there's a missile,but they don't exactly know
where it's going. So you end upwith these air raid sirens where
the the siren goes off for likefive minutes, but technically
that the air raid is like twohours, and then they'll sound
another different alarm to saylike, okay, it's stopped.
Whereas in Kyiv and other othercities in Ukraine, if the air is
(09:50):
sent went off, that meant likeit's coming or whatever is
happening is happening rightnow, but then it was over. So it
was that was like a totallydifferent experience from louisv
to others. Other cities inUkraine
seems like a really confusingand chaotic time.
Yeah. And Levine and I wrote alittle bit about on this was
like Levine is actively tryingto be a respite. So like, people
(10:14):
that like run the parks, likethe city parks or the museums,
they're doing, like free,obviously, the museums are
closed, because the more but,you know, you can still go look
at a church or look at ahistoric building or go to a
park. So at least for a longtime, I don't know if they're
still doing it. But at the timeI was there, they were offering
free tours. Obviously, inUkrainian this wasn't for
(10:34):
tourists to like, so peoplecould go explore Levine. And it
was like, that was an act ofthing that the government was
doing, because it was like thesepeople just fled, like Russian
invasion violence, and they'vecome to the city, they need
something to do. And we havethis really historic pretty city
with a bunch of parks. And ifyou were willing to, like
(10:55):
volunteer their time to likelead a tour group around, so
they were actively like, theyacknowledge that Louisville is
this like safe haven for people.
But at the same time, they'renot like, You're not getting
away from the war. They're nottrying to pretend like it's not
happening. Like, there's signseverywhere. There's sandbags,
there's fully armed militaryeverywhere. So it's not that
they're trying to like give youa place Oh, the word doesn't
(11:17):
exist, everything's fine. But itis definitely like a respite
place of like, you know, whereit's, it's it's trying to be a
celebration of Ukrainianculture, at a time when
Ukrainian culture is quiteliterally under attack by the
Russians. So not just the war,but they're trying to call them
Nazis. They're trying to saythat their Ukrainians are coming
like genocide against theRoma's. All that kind of stuff.
(11:38):
So like, right now is a reallydefensive time for Ukrainian
culture alongside military.
What did some of the signs say?
I'm not good enough at Ukrainianto tell you. But I can say to
the credit, the Ukrainians,these are not people that beat
around the bush, one of myphotos that did better than then
some of my others was there's apain. It's like a poster of a
(12:03):
Ukrainian woman shoving a pistolin Putin's mouth. Like that's
very direct. It's not a hintingaround anything there. And then,
you know, it's a lot of like,Glory to Ukraine, that kind of
stuff, like very, like,patriotic but very, like anti
Russian invasion. And it's very,you know, they're the ones that
(12:23):
got attacked, so they'refighting. So you don't see a lot
of stop the war. Like I saw alot of stop the war when I was
in Poland. In Ukraine,obviously, they would if the
worst stop would be great. Butthere was much more of an
incentive, unlike fight anddefend Ukraine, because they
can't stop the war. It wasn'ttheir choice in the first place.
So that's a it was kind of adifference in in signage was
(12:46):
like, the one thing I would sayand they directly did this for
Western media was there weresigns everywhere about close the
sky. That was probably thebiggest message it was like on
every government building inEnglish. Close the skies because
Russian airpower is just greaterthan Ukraine's. And I think
(13:07):
Ukraine really, at least when Iwas there had a feeling like
we're making foot work on theground, but we don't have the
Air Force that that Russia does.
So like if you're not going tocome and help us you know, with
with ground troops, close thesky, let us do the fighting.
That was like, that was a reallydistinct message that was very
phrase for Westerners likewritten in English, around where
(13:28):
the media was major roads,billboards in English so that we
would see it and photographit seems very purposeful that it
was in English.
Anytime you saw something inEnglish, I took it like a little
grain of salt, because I'm like,Well, I know the audience is not
Ukrainian. That being said, it'salso like, okay, that's the
(13:50):
message that Ukraine is tryingto get out. I'm going to state
that that's the message Ukrainewants to get out. But I think
especially with the closer skything, it was definitely more of
like a pleading like no forlike, we really really want this
it's gonna make a hugedifference for us. That was
probably the thing that Ukrainewanted the most publicly at
leasthow how was media treated while
you were there? SpecificallyWestern media.
(14:15):
I was there and I I'm hesitantto overly criticize, because
there are saboteurs really, Imean, that's a real problem.
That being said, I think I gotit worse than some other people.
Sure. I got it way easier thansome but worse than others.
Since this is a podcast youshould describe what you look
like me Oh, I'm,I was very often mistaken for
(14:36):
Ukrainian but I was apparentlyalso very often mistaken for
Russian. Very, very blondhaired, blue eyed, five, five
individual who is of militaryage, so I was under suspicion at
all times. And basically,depending on where you were in
Lavy, things were a lot easier.
(14:59):
As a reporter, there was a lotmore press. So you didn't tend
to get singled out? Becauselike, if if the military is
checking paperwork and there's13 camera people at the train
station, you know, you can seethey're like, Okay, you have
paperwork. Yes. All right. Thankyou. That's all I've done.
That's all you need. You haveit. I don't care. You're good.
(15:20):
Kev, was the opposite. Kia gotto the point where I was like, I
don't know how to function as areporter anymore. What do you
because every and this is notreally a joke. Every
intersection, I was beingstopped, surrounded? What's your
paperwork? What are you doing?
Where are you going? Let me seeyour photos. And then you go
through all that. And that wasfine. And then you go to the
(15:41):
next intersection had the exactsame interaction, it would take
like, it took extremely longtime to get anywhere. And like
where my little rental was, inKyiv, there was only one road, I
could walk all the others if Itried to walk down at with
cameras, they'd be like, No, canyou like, go all the way around?
And I was like, Yeah, I'll walkaround the half an hour, it's
gonna take me to get to. And Iget that, like, I'm not, you
(16:04):
know, but it was, especially asa solo. And I get why that would
be more suspicious. It's very,it's very unusual, even over
there for reporters to be alone,especially with big cameras. So
I definitely was like the, youknow, I don't know how to say
it. I understand why suspicionwas being raised around me. That
being said, it's still tiring.
(16:27):
It's really, really tiring,especially like I was taking
photos of the sand. They'resandbagging, like, historic
landmarks, so that they're notjust hopefully not destroyed.
And I was taking photos of onecovered in sandbags. And I
thought, I'm going to jail.
Because apparently, they didn'twant me to take photos of that.
And I thought I was totally fineto take photos. It's like a
(16:48):
historic monument on GoogleMaps. Like, it's everywhere.
It's on every tour for Kyiv orfor Kyiv. And, you know, like,
next thing I know, I'msurrounded by Ukrainian
military, who now have mypassport, my press pass my
Ukrainian press credentials.
(17:10):
They're making phone calls. Andeventually, we got someone who
spoke like enough English. Andhe's like, where's your fixer?
And I'm like, like, expenses areexpensive. You don't walk or
like, freelancers don't walkaround with lift fixers all day,
every day in the middle of thecity. And they're like, oh,
like, this is a problem. And I'mlike, I don't know what you
(17:31):
like. It's a statue man, like, Idon't have any military gear.
Like, I don't know what to do.
And that was like, That one tooklike half an hour to resolve.
And then that night, we almostdidn't make it back. Because I
went to meet some reporters, wealmost didn't make it back for
curfew. And that there was awhole incident at a checkpoint
that was like, really worryingto me, where I was like, this
(17:54):
was like, We fucked up this,that was our fault. That was
totally our fault that we wereout that late. But I was like,
this is this is extremely busygetting to the point where it's
extremely difficult just to likeoperate at all, or do my job.
What was going through your mindas you approach each checkpoint?
Well,it's just because you don't know
are they going to check me? Oram I going to get a guy that
(18:16):
speaks English? Am I going toget a Ukrainian military? Am I
going to get a territorialdefense? Am I going to get a
policeman am I going to get justsome guy that's guarding the
street. And like all of thosepose different risks. Ukrainian
military was usually the best.
That was usually your lowestchance of like an issue because
we carried with us to coverKevin frontline stuff, you've
(18:39):
needed to have militaryaccreditation, which as far as I
understand was like a backgroundcheck, to check that you were
really working for who you saidyou were working for, and that
kind of thing. Which was toughfor a lot of freelancers to get.
And I very much think, my agent,my wire agency, for getting me
some very dedicated paperwork tobe like, No, really, this is our
(19:00):
reporter, he's working. So a lothas the military with your Med
minute, or your excuse me, yourmilitary accreditation. Most of
the time, that was good enough,as long as you had a passport
with the same name. Other timesthey even call the number, what
you had to be more concernedabout was territorial defense,
because they're more I don'twant to call them like a
National Guard, but they don'thave nearly as much training. So
(19:22):
they don't even know what theaccreditation was sometimes. So
they're looking at this thing,and they're like, so you know,
aren't you know, are youmilitary? And it's like, no, no,
I'm just like, I'm uproot that.
They made me more nervous thananybody else. And then the
police were like, pretty coolwith it. Usually, the issue with
the police was like, with them,they didn't really want to check
(19:42):
your paperwork. So if theyweren't checking your paperwork,
you probably did something theydidn't really like. That being
said it was like okay, but Imean, it got to the point where
you wouldn't even put yourpaperwork away just like have it
like out all the time. And likeI said, I get that I get the
suspicion and I don't want tocriticize that but As far as it
being a member of the press,it's just you get exhausted
where you're like, I don't wantto go photograph the center of
(20:05):
key of today, or wherever,because I know I'm gonna get
stopped 13 times, it's gonnatake me like an hour to get down
there, I have the height back tolike to make sure that I get
back on time for the curfew orwhatever it is. Or you could
just pay for a fixer all thetime. Which if you're a giant
mega News Corporation, that'sawesome. But us freelancers
(20:29):
can't afford 100 $200 a day tohave somebody like walk around
with you just so that you don'tget and you probably will get
stopped almost just as muchanyway, so.
And I also want to talk about Imean, here you are, you're a
freelancer, you're by yourself.
And as you said, that's notsuper, that's a little bit
unusual. Can you talk about someof the challenges of being a
(20:51):
lone Freelancer with limitedresources?
Yeah, so I mean, I hate to saybut money's definitely like a
big influence on access. If youhave a really good fixer, they
can you talk about what a fixer,sorry, yeah, let's, let's, uh,
so a fixer is, is a complicatedjob that is probably a generic
term. But basically, it'susually a translator, or
(21:13):
somebody that can speak the,like, in this case, Ukrainian
and English, or whatever thereports speak. So we had like a
lot of French, I think Francehad the most journalists there
of any country. So obviously, ifyou could speak French and
Ukrainian, you were going to geta job. English obviously being
like second to that. So usually,they'll translate for you. If
they're a really good fixer,they probably have contacts that
(21:35):
either were a reporter, or maybethey're like, they were ex
police, something like thatsomeone that's going to have
contacts, they're gonna be ableto put you at low Oh, do you
want to get to this town? Okay,let me talk to some people,
that's what a good fixer isgoing to do. They'll probably
also drive you most fixers willhave a car and drive you around,
in some cases, you'll have tohire a driver to obviously, then
(21:57):
that starts adding more expense,because then you have to pay for
a driver as well. But basically,they're kind of a facilitator to
get you around, get you tothings. Now, those really good
fixers tend to be very in veryhigh demand. And you know, and
then as a freelancer, I think alot of money, obviously, like,
it's probably not that big adeal for ABC News, or I
(22:18):
shouldn't even say a company,but like some major corporation
to pay someone 100 $200 a day.
But as a freelancer, I know I'mgoing to sell the article for
$50. So paying a driver and afixer $100 Each a day, so that I
could make and with a bigarticle, you might have to go to
three places. So that adds upreally, really fast. So
unfortunately, money's part ofit. Now that being said, fixers
(22:40):
deserve to be paid, it's just asa freelancer, you really have to
like, you're like, Okay, I hopethis town is worth it. Because
this is the like, one of the fewtimes I'm going to be able to
pay for a driver and uh, andthen a lot
of times like this is coming,like out of pocket, right?
Oh out of pocket forfreelancers, especially what we
try to do as freelancers, if youdo know people, and I would
(23:02):
really encourage if anybodywants to get into this know,
people, if you can, I ended upmeeting a couple of people I
really liked, we worked welltogether, we ended up splitting,
and still quite expensive, butat least there were three of us
in the car, you know, so it was1/3 the cost instead of 100%.
But it's still kind of tough,and you couldn't get a not great
(23:23):
fixer and I think we got a notvery great fixer kind of wasted
our money. We still got somereally good work done. But I
don't know if it was acommunication breakdown or just
there. You could get a not greatfixer is the way I'll say it
without being to accusetutorial, but it's very damaging
to get one it's not good. Andthen second to that is just
(23:47):
getting access to stuff. And afixer could facilitate a lot of
that. But obviously noteverything. So I forgot the
question.
Just the challenges of beingalone. Freelance is
the part the second part ofbeing alone and some people are
tough people that are justtotally happy to go completely
(24:09):
alone. And I hats off to them. Ithink especially when you add
the freelance knowing you're notgetting paid, probably not
getting paid for this addsanother level of stress. But
being alone is really hardbecause you're going out to very
stressful situations, spendingall day in very stressful
situations, coming back byyourself to you know,
(24:30):
realistically probably like arented apartment or a hotel
room. I was saying like Airbnb,so I wasn't even seeing other
reporters. It's not like therewas a lobby where I'd run into
people. It was like, Okay, I'mgonna walk up that one road or
I'm allowed to walk up back intomy apartment, cooked dinner,
file, edit photos of thetraumatic thing you'd probably
just photograph write a storyabout it go to bed and then
(24:53):
sorry, not go to bed file. Thenyou got to figure out what am I
doing tomorrow? What's the nextstory? What's happening? And who
can I contact and it gets taxingwhen it's just you doing all
that. And I actually metfreelancers who by all
technicals, you know, stuff areworking alone. But they have
another freelancer, that's theirfriend that they're working
(25:14):
together or splitting a hotelroom, or they're splitting the
room with like a writer orsomeone or a videographer. Like,
a lot of times, I'll seevideographers and photographers
work together, they're basicallyafter the same thing, but
they're not technicallycompeting. So it's a really, you
know, a writer's it's a greatcombo, because you're not
directly competition, but youboth kind of want to go to the
same stuff. But just the factthat you're with someone seems
(25:36):
to take a huge amount of like,toll off people like I was
working with a photographer, andhe had a writer friend, and they
were working together. And itwas like he was going to come
out with us to see this townthat had been bombed. And his
friend was a little more likenervous about the war. So he was
going to stay and and make phonecalls to get into like, the
shelters in Ukraine, thathospitals or you know, any those
(25:57):
kind of stories. So like hecould stay behind, and do all
this groundwork, and all thisresearch while we're out doing
this other story. And then it'slike, but when you're by
yourself, you're trying to doboth of those, and it can get to
be overwhelming. And of course,the thing is, that going back to
money, if you're doing it all,on your own, it takes a lot more
time, well, then you're needingto pay for food and rent and
(26:19):
everything for another day. Sothat adds up. So it's really,
really tough to go alone. Itotally get some people that can
do it. Hats off to them. Maybein like five years of
experience. I'll be like, Oh, Ican do it totally alone. But
it's genuinely emotionallyexhausting, just on like, just
not you're alone all the time ina very stressful situation. And
(26:42):
you're totally responsible foryour safety and transportation.
And there's so many unknowns. Imean, one of my constant fears
was what if the train tracks nota train? What if the train
tracks get hit by the Russians?
I don't have a way to get out ofKev back to Lviv,
(27:03):
you've covered conflict outsideof the country before and and
here locally. Can you talk aboutyour your prior experience and
how it was different than inthan in Ukraine?
Yeah, that's interesting. Um,basically, so one of the first
real like heavy photojournalismthings I got to cover was in
Bangkok in 2013. They overthrewtheir, their current government,
(27:26):
and now it's a military, Ithink, to this day is still a
military government at themoment. And that was, that
wasn't a war. It was arevolution. People were shot, I
did see quite a bit of violenceover there. But it wasn't like a
full out war. It was unarmedpeople going up against police.
And the police were primarilyVAs primarily using water
(27:47):
cannons, rubber bullets, therewere some real bullets in there.
But that was not it was not likea war. In the USA covered, you
know, Black Lives Matter riotsand covered some pretty some far
right? rallies, it got prettyheated. I've had a lot of guns
pointed at me. But that's alwayslike on the borderline of
becoming like a really, reallyviolent outburst. you frame it
(28:10):
as a war. And I talked withreporters who had been COVID
covered Syria for years. And andthey were like, No, this is the
no one's covered anything likethis since like World War Two,
or maybe the Korean War.
Thanks so much for sharing andjust being open about what you
hope, what you hope your photosdo. And just the role that you
hope to play as a journalist.
It's, it's, it's just helpful tohear.
(28:34):
Yeah. And that's, that's why Iwanted to do this, and I
appreciate you sitting down withme is, is I want people to
understand kind of why it isthat reporters do this because
you know, and there's alwaysgoing to be that example. There
are probably glory hounds outthere. And I heard I actually
(28:55):
didn't want other than the Canyou kiss him thing which upset
me. I didn't see any instances.
And I met a lot of reporters,and I didn't meet any instances
of anybody who's out there fortheir own self glorification.
That being said, and I knowpeople that know people that saw
that kind of thing. But I reallywanted to share at least my
experience and hopefully asimilar experience to a lot of
(29:19):
my colleagues on why it is thatwe we choose to get on a plane
for 14 hours to get on a bus foreight hours to get on a train
for five hours. So that we cango to because it's not a normal
choice. But it's one that Ithink if we do our job right,
we've earned the ability to dothat. So
(29:43):
thank you time. Thank youthat's it for today's show.
Please visit us online at thisis reno.com to see Ty's photo
galleries of the Ukrainian War
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