SE 3, EP 20: Lucinda Williams - Lucinda Williams - This is Vinyl Tap

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Tonight on.
This Is Vinyl Tap.
The sun is hanging in the sky,sinking low, and so am I, pins
that don't run out of ink andthe longest bridge I've ever
crossed.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
In 1948,.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Columbia Records introduced the 33 and the 3rd
RPM Long Player Record.
One year later, rca Victorintroduced the 45 RPM Single.
The record has now had a choiceonly the hits or the full album
.
In the last half of the 60s,the best bands realized the

(01:11):
potential of the longer formatand began to build a cohesive
body of music that must be heardunbroken.
The arrival of downloadablemusic has increased the
temptation to stay in theshallow end with the hits.
This podcast believes everyalbum tells a story.
Tonight we tell one of thosestories.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Well, good evening everybody.
As you can tell by the sound ofmy voice if you have listened
previously, this is Tony Slagle,normally the co-host but
hosting tonight, joined by ourco-host or host, normal host,
doug Cooper, and, of course, ourhumble, humble producer,
jonathan JM Rowe.
Good evening, tapsters, andwe're gathered tonight in the

(01:56):
Vinegar Room Saloon for thefirst time in quite a bit.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
Yeah, we've had some issues, Those rough times that
hit everybody else's life well,they hit us too.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah.
So we took a little break, Youwouldn't know, because we've
kept up with our posting of newepisodes, but we've taken a
little break recording and we'regathered together tonight to
speak about the third studioalbum from.
I'm going to call her anAmericana pioneer.
I know she bristles at thatlabel, but I think it's fitting.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Most artists end up bristling at the titles that
they get.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yes, I don't think that's a bad title, but I'm
going to say it.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
It's a good title and it's very accurate.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, and it's Lucinda Williams in her 1988
self-titled album.
Lucinda Williams And I'm goingto go ahead and toss this right
away to the person who pickedthis album and ask the question
Doug, the question on everyone'smind is why didn't you pick Car
Wheels on a gravel?

Speaker 3 (03:01):
road.
That's true, everybody isasking that, and I think this
album is better.

Speaker 4 (03:09):
I would say it's much better.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
I feel like Car Wheels on the Car Wheels on the
trampoline.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
We're a little rusty tonight, guys, sorry.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
I just feel like that's the album for people with
training wheels.
They came in late and theyneeded some help.
This is her breakthrough album.
This is the album that capturedme.
So there are both intellectualreasons I chose this album, and
there are also deep, deepemotional reasons I picked this
album.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
It's fair to say, don't you think, after her two
Folklings albums, that this isthe album where Lucinda Williams
became Lucinda Williams?

Speaker 4 (03:50):
It is.
I think so.
Yeah, the thing that I will sayabout the writing on this album
is that it's not self-consciousSo much.
That she did after this is sovery self-conscious.
It was like the words just cameout of her.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
The writing on this album is what if you had a
sophisticated child, someonewith the brain of an adult, but
the worldview?
of a kid a six-year-old kid,that's, or whatever age kids are
when they run around naked inthe sprinkler.
This is that, because she isnot self-conscious at all.
There's no pretense, Everythingis honest and she's writing

(04:31):
like the most vulnerable personin the world.
No effectations whatsoever onthis album, and that's one of
the reasons I deeply love it.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
And she's got a hell of a band back in her up.
She has a great band back in herup And it's a band that I think
we've talked times before aboutthe whole 10,000 hours thing.
This is a band that played thesongs on this particular album
all the time, live over and overagain.
I mean they said I think GryffMorlicks, who produced this and

(05:01):
is kind of the musical brainsbehind a lot of the stuff on the
album, he said that this was soeasy because I mean, it didn't
take very long to record thisalbum because they knew it all.

Speaker 4 (05:11):
It was like looking at the back of their hand
because they played it so much,which actually I mean again, it
was just because it's just.
I don't want to say tossed off,because that's not really the-.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
We don't say those kinds of things on this podcast
champ.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
But it's so different than anything that she did
after this, where it waspainstaking for her to create an
album, and it shows And thisalbum really does have this
y'all debris It's just likethey're having a great time
playing it.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah, it does sound like that, and if you listen to
the deluxe version of it, whichwe're not going to talk about
tonight, but there's live-.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
Two days Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
There's live.
Well, i'm just going to saythere's live versions on that
and the live versions of thepassionate kisses on that sound
like the studio version.
It's flawless sounding.
It sounds fantastic.
Maybe slightly sped up, butyeah, this is a band firing on
all cylinders.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
And this is when she becomes the Lysinda Williams
exactly, and the LysindaWilliams sound has a lot of Tom
Petty in it.
that was not on the first twoalbums.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Right.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
And I don't know what happened but Well, she
discovered.

Speaker 4 (06:21):
Well, gerv Muller, marlix discovered the 12-string
guitar, i think, which reallyhelps us.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
I think a lot of it has to do with who.
she was moving to Californiaand playing with that paisley
underground scene out there, allthose roots rockers out there.
It was different than the rootsscene in Austin.
Austin's roots scene was muchmore sort of traditional country
and that out there was acountry infused with a dash of

(06:47):
punk attitude And I think thatreally, plus I mean the date I
mean this is the 80s versus whenshe was in Austin, which was
the 70s.
But I think all of those bands,they all sort of there's a
similarity to their attitude andthe way they approach this
traditional music And, almost toa tee, they all come from a

(07:11):
huge, like vast understandingand knowledge of all the music
that came before them.
They're all really well-learnedwhen it comes to the music of
the 20th century.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
But I mean, i think the bands that were coming out
here, the Blasters X, the LongRiders, the Long Riders, i mean
there was just that, i'd say theLong Riders.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
What Brian Eno had to do with this game.

Speaker 4 (07:34):
In your Eno shirt.
Yeah, another green shirt.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
If he can't talk about Eno, he's got to like
shove it in our face with ashirt.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
I have to face both of y'all tonight.
Anyway but yeah, there reallywas just something that was
going on in LA at this time thatwas bringing traditional I
guess, the punk aesthetic totraditional country music,
traditional even folk music.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
No, i agree with that .
And the weird thing is, is allof those bands almost another
two or tee if they were abouteight years too early?
And I mean, you think aboutthis album we're talking about
tonight.
It wasn't a huge success untilmuch later, and if this album
had been released five yearslater, it would have been a
monster.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
A monster, well, that's what happened with her
other albums that came later.
People were all into that.
I can remember forcing.
I've got a long history offorcing people to listen to
stuff.
I remember forcing people tolisten to this and those same
people were oh, we're all aboutthe car on the gravel.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
A couple of six years later, or whatever it was.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
You're right, this came out too early.
Maybe it's not too early.
Maybe it was the thing thatprodded other people to that
direction.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
You're absolutely right.
You can hear specific songs onthe South.
You can hear them influenceother people who sort of were
the stars of that genre once itbecame the thing at the time.
I mean, grunge killedeverything, but there was a
period in the early 90s whenthis kind of music was really

(09:12):
really big.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
She.
I call her the genre blenderbecause you cannot pin her down.
You could before this album,but when this album came out, i
feel like there ought to bevideos of a bunch of mad folk
people getting upset like theydid with Bob Dylan or who was it
?
We just did it.
Everybody was upset after they.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Welcome.
No, no, no, t-rex.
T-Rex and North Bowlin.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
But she made a turn like that.
It suits her, so so well, too.
I love music that isn't in line.
It's like the kid going to thecafeteria from his classroom
that the teacher cannot get himto stay on the little red line

(10:04):
because he just doesn't have theability.
She doesn't either.
I mean, she paid a high price.
She could have polished hersound for Nashville and she
absolutely refused.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Well, this is.
We're talking about a persontonight who was kicked out of
high school for refusing to saythe Pledge of Allegiance.
So I mean, this is somebodywho's got a giant ship on her
shoulder.

Speaker 4 (10:22):
Yeah, but she also has And doing what people say
you know.
So this might be a good time tokind of get into her history.
She was born in Lake CharlesLouisiana.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
Have you ever been there, Jim?

Speaker 4 (10:32):
I have been there I haven't.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
I always wanted to go .

Speaker 4 (10:35):
I played poker there one time.
It's a very flat place, but herdad was.
Her dad was a poet and hestarted out.
I didn't realize this untiltoday.
He started off as a biologymajor and he thought he was
going to be a biology professorAnd then he went, I think, to

(10:56):
the University of New Mexico andchanged to being an English
professor.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
He was a lobo.

Speaker 4 (11:02):
I think he was a lobo at one point, yes, And so he
became a English professor andhe started writing poetry and
started to be kind of renownedand won all sorts of awards and
everything This is MillerWilliams, miller Williams, yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
The third, only the third person to read a poem at
the inauguration.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
He read it twice.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
He read a poem at Clinton's second inauguration.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
And the first.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
No, Maya Angelou did the first.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
Who's that?
Go ahead and write us.
I thought he did both of them,but you're right.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
No, she did that one, i'll never forget that one.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
That's the one that was played over and over again.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
He did the second one .
He was friends with Clinton butClinton had a poet read at both
of his.
but prior to that I thinkKennedy was the last president,
or the first.
English president to have apoem read at his inauguration.

Speaker 4 (11:57):
Yeah, and he befriended like she had poets
and writers that would be in her, and her mom was a pianist, i
think an amateur pianist.
He got custody of the kids whenthey divorced in the mid-60s.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
She had some mental issues, yeah, i think,
hospitalized a couple of timesAnd Lucinda talks about having a
bit of a struggle with herrelationship with her mom, her
dad.
Up until I want to say thealbum after this, she would send
him her lyrics and get I don'tthink, i think for Car Wheels on

(12:34):
a gravel road.
She stopped at that point, butup until that point she would
get his feedback.
I mean, he was a huge influenceon her, not just literally, but
he also got her into the DeltaBlues and into classic, like
Hank Williams' classic country,what we call classic country now
.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Well, and something that highly recommends him, in
my opinion, is he didn't likethe doors at all.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, that's good.
That's good, I think we allwould agree.

Speaker 4 (13:03):
Wasn't he friends with Charles Bukowski?

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Probably.
He was friends with a lot ofpeople, interesting people, i
mean he was a pretty big guy Andhe was also.
They were fairly nomadicbecause of his career.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
Yeah, right, so they went all up and down Highway.
Is it 20?
She's got a, or maybe it's 10.
She's got an album out.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
Yeah, it must be 10, because 20 turns into 10 up and
oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
Anyway, she has an album about her nomadic
existence up and down thathighway in the south from
Georgia to Texas.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Well, it's impressive .
She started, evidently startedwriting songs at six And then
really started writing songswhen Highway 61 Revisited came
out, when she was 12.
I mean, a 12-year-old hearingDylan and going, oh, i really
want to beat her.
That's kind of unusual, That'sunusual.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
So one thing I noticed about there is something
similar about her father'spoems and her songs.
To find a poet, a modern poet,who's not embracing obscurity is
really unusual.
And his poems arestraightforward, just like her
music, and they sound prosywhile at the same time they're

(14:16):
poetry, but they don't sound.
They don't have any of thestructure or the oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
One of the things she does is she repeats a line, but
it'll be verse, verse, verse,and then it'll be a line by
itself, and it'll be a verse,verse, verse and then a line by
itself, and it kind of bringsyou back.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
Well, she repeats the blues do without the same form,
right, yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
I mean that's obviously an influence on her,
at least lyrically in the songstructure, but the sound, i mean
she was playing a lot of bluesearly on But that changed as she
progressed.
And the other thing, i guessthat helped in her sort of.
When you were talking aboutJean, what did you call her
genre blending or She's a genreblender?

(15:11):
Yeah Well, not only did her dadhave that influence on her, but
her mom actually had aninfluence on her and got her
into folk at Joan Baez and stufflike that.
But she was because she wasbouncing around.
They were bouncing around somany college campuses.
She also heard a lot of 60srock and roll as well.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah Well, she said she wanted to sing like Joan
Baez and Judy Collins, and shediscovered that that one her
deal.
And that was nowhere near herdeal And I'm so glad it wasn't.
And she heard Bobby Gentry.
Ah yeah.
And then when she heard BobbyGentry, she goes oh, this is

(15:47):
what, and that doesn't makesense to me.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
It does to me.
Bobby Gentry was at leastpackaged.
I don't know how much of it wastrue, but packaged as this sort
of feminist woman who wasn'tgoing to take crap from anybody
when her songs came out Thevoice.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
I think the attitude probably, i don't know what
listen to Williams heard andBobby Gentry that made her think
that she could do it.

Speaker 4 (16:14):
Well, i think it might have been that.
I mean, her voice isn'tnecessarily that strong.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
No, it's not strong at all.
She sings a lot of covers thatother people have really heard
her sing in a song that ArethaFranklin did today And I'm
saying no, no, no.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
No, no, no.
Bobby Gentry, I don't think hasthe greatest song.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
No, that's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 4 (16:36):
Oh OK.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
I say, why is Bobby Gentry singing a song that
Aretha Franklin already did?
Who did what song is her mostfamous?
Jane?

Speaker 4 (16:45):
Bobby Jumping Off The Bridge.
what's that?
Oh DeBilly Joe, oh DeBilly Joe.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Oh, DeBilly Joe, Bobby Jumping Off The Bridge
Another great tune.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
And just to toss out a nod to another podcast anybody
who wants to go down a rabbithole and understand the story of
that particular song, listen toCocaine and Ryan Sins.
I think there's a three-partepisode on that.
One on Bobby Gentry, one on TomT Hall, because I think he
wrote the song, and then one onthe guy who owned the label, who

(17:18):
signed her.
It's fascinating listeninganyway, and you'll get to maybe
understand a little bit aboutwhat Bobby Gentry represented to
Lucinda Williams.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
And you'll get to hear what a podcast is supposed
to sound like That's a goodpodcast.

Speaker 4 (17:31):
Yeah, anyway.
So she had all these.
She was definitely influenced alot by her father.
You can't get away from that.
There's also seems to be a lotof heartache, and it's not like
a heartache like, oh, i'm so sadthis has happened to me, it's
more like a resignation to me.
In a lot of her songs She seemseasily heartbroken and very

(17:57):
resilient.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, and Big Red Sun's song, that Big Red Sun,
you know that reminds me of it'skind of a Loretta tradition of
being heartbroken but defying atthe same time, and I think
that's why she's probably seenas an icon of sort of feminist
music is because she embracesthat.

(18:20):
Here we are three dudes talkingabout feminism, but I feel very
comfortable talking about that.
But no, she embraces that sortof yeah, it's okay to be
vulnerable and understand thatand be hurt, But at the same
time, I'm not going to take anycrap about it either.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
So, you know you got to move on.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
She sings a lot of songs that fall in that category
of songs about women tellingthe guy that they're strong and
they don't need them anymore andthey're going to move on.
The greatest one of those everwas Believe by Cher, which is
more appropriate for a 25 yearold woman than a 62 year old

(19:00):
woman, But basically telling theguy I don't need you anymore.
I don't need you anymore.
There's a lot of songs by womenlike that.

Speaker 4 (19:08):
But I think this separates her, at least on this
album.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
She doesn't seem injured by it permanently, it's.
she's hurt, but not injured.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
I didn't think about it that way, the way that.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
I was taking it.
It doesn't take away herinnocence and her childlike.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
Well, yes, that's where I was going with this.
It seems like that's what I wassaying earlier.
It seems like a resignation tous like this as well.
This is how it happened.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
Which is really important for moving on.
But you know, speaking ofmoving on, we probably sound
really ridiculous to a bunch ofwomen right now.
I want to apologize to all fourwomen.
Less than any of these podcast.
So we were talking about hergrowing up.
She ends up at the Universityof Arkansas.
I don't know if it was her dadthere at the same time.

(19:58):
She was there.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
I don't know Later I think that's a good question,
because he was he's a professor,was a professor of.

Speaker 4 (20:04):
Meredith, there He was there.
I think he had two.
Yeah, i think he had two stentsthere.
And I can't remember.
I think he went there.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
He started the Arkansas press.

Speaker 4 (20:12):
Is that right?

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah, he was the guy who got that off the ground.
Wow, university of Arkansaspress.
Yeah, so she.
But Doug, how'd she do there?

Speaker 3 (20:21):
That wasn't her calling.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
No, it was not her calling.

Speaker 4 (20:25):
Yeah but she didn't last long in college.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
That was not her calling, i think she just didn't
feel comfortable around allthose hugs and she moved to
Austin Texas So she got mearound stairs.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Before we get to that though it was a little funny
story She's living in.
she actually lived in NewOrleans before that for a little
while and went to Nashville toaudition for Opryland in 1972.
And she got the gig the gig toaudition through a friend of her
father's who was the basis forTom T Hall of all people that we

(20:57):
mentioned before.
So she didn't get the gig, butshe ended up staying and
sticking around Nashville longenough to get to spend a night
in the county jail forpossession of pot.
Yeah, so that's all.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
Well, that may have lessened to you young people out
there, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
But yeah, she did it.
She's finding a state thathasn't legalized it.
She ended up eventually in 74,i think is when she moved to
Austin.

Speaker 4 (21:19):
Yeah, she spent some time in Mississippi and, like I
said, louisiana and came toAustin.
She came to Austin, where shebelongs.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Yeah, i have a huge prejudice.
I already told Tony this, butwhen I hear this album, it
reminds me so much of Austin atthat time.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
Yeah, it really does.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
It reminds me of being in an outdoor venue
listening to this.
I'm folk, i'm rock, i'm countrymixture, and she epitomizes it,
and I cannot help but haveflashbacks.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yeah, i think she used to be around so much that I
didn't know who she was untilafter this album came out And I
went to a music venue and shejust Was like right there, yeah,
table right across around.
Holy crap, this is.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Lucinda William, you know she's saying backup on yeah
.

Speaker 4 (22:21):
Album that wasn't really Resident release
nationally, but yeah, that's agreat album.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
But she know the reason, what one of the reasons
she left was.
She wasn't.
I mean, you guys are talkingabout her and you knew who She
was, but she wasn't getting awhole lot of do in Austin.
I wasn't as influential then.
Well she She tells a story inher book about Plaint, like
playing, playing on the drag,yeah, and and getting promised a
gig at the hole in the wall.

(22:46):
And so she shows up and shenotices that the her name isn't
on the calendar, wow.
And so she talks to the managerand he's like yeah, i changed
my mind.
I've got enough women thismonth and since and and told her
to split.

Speaker 4 (23:00):
You know So different than Mike's.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Because he had no books of women.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
Yeah, though, women.
Well, the one that was runningthe, what I used to play there
was was a woman.
She did all the booking and,yeah, she made sure yeah, maybe
this guy got straightened outafter that She she ended up.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
She would what she would do, because Austin, i mean
, she would this kind of herstory until she makes it, she's
having trouble struggling,making any money anywhere.
She's kind of going back andforth between she lived in
Houston for a while, yeah, andshe would play in Houston, and I
think I want to say it's whenshe's in Houston That she gets.
She gets that folkways deal andends up moving to New York

(23:36):
Because, yeah, because she had afriend who had released a guy
named Jeff amp ampulsk Whoreleased an album on folks way
called God, god guns and Godguts and guns, oh yeah, and you
know that.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
I know that album Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
I mean, i got a t-shirt and he said you know, i
bet if you contact folkwaysthey'll let you do an album.
And so she did, and and Shetalks to The guy Mo Ash, i think
he was the guy who's running atthe time.
It's owned by Smithsonian now,i think, right, smithsonian
folkways.
But He offers there's 300 bucksto come cut it out.

(24:14):
Wow, and so she does it andit's called rambling.
It's called rambling.
It's released in 79 and it's.
There's not a single originalsong on it.
It's all covers of old Deltablues songs and country songs
and And and it doesn't sound atall anything like what we're
listening to tonight.
But That's malted milk blues ByLucinda Williams and she went

(24:49):
in the album.
She's just called Lucinda on itas well, which is another thing
.
She's not Lucinda Williams,she's just Lucinda.
But anyway, it's.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
It's all pretty sparse and then she ends up but,
she did get some respect fromthe No no, no, i think,
absolutely.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
I mean, I think people, people in that scene
really dug that out a lot andthen she's that lead ballet
thing where she plays a12-string acoustic.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
Yeah and she has such an Unusual voice that I find
immediately appealing.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
It's I was.
I was thinking about it todaywhen I was listening to the
album we're talking about againand I don't know if it's if it's
Where she was raised or how shewas raised, or it's her accent.
She's very round in herdelivery, if that makes any
sense.
Mm-hmm and it's.
It's an unusual.
It's unique, but it's right.
It's appealing the way shesings.

(25:42):
She's got this roundness to her, to her vocals and this is so
stupid.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
This is.
This is the kind of thing thatthey say on NPR.
That drives me crazy, so I'mgonna go ahead and say it, but
there's something authentic inthe way her voice sounds.

Speaker 4 (25:57):
Well was authentic.
No way her voice sounds I thinkthat she Affected that later
but the way that she deliversthis by this album.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
That was it yeah, and I and I'll piggyback on that.
I think one of the things thatwhen people talk about and I
know again genres but whenpeople talk about the difference
between something like theLucinda Williams album we're
talking about tonight andcountry music that was Popular
at the time is the a word isauthenticity.

(26:27):
I think that's the real.
I mean, the music soundsdifferent as well, but there's
also a lack of authenticity.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
Well, it doesn't sound like a commercial right,
right, yeah, so it's it's likewhen you go to a restaurant like
I hop or Chili's, where theyhave to have Food poppers let's
have some sort of poppers foodEverybody can eat.
There's nothing that's going topoke you.
There's nothing that's too hotor nothing It's that's a lot of

(26:55):
an onion and and that's.
I think that Nashville sound isexactly the same as a Food
that's safe.
Music That's safe.
Let's, let's stick with thatwell-tried chord progression
that we're all comfortable withyeah.
And let's sing a song about coldbeer.
Well, she.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
She makes another album for full plays too.
I mean, it's kind of thehistory of her early career and
maybe later career.
I don't know know that muchabout it happy women blues as a
good.
Yeah, that's the second album,but she, she makes two albums
for folk ways and then she's,she's not, she's not with them
anymore.
But yeah, that album, happywomen blues, that's Lafayette on

(27:50):
that that sounds like a realhuman being singing.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
So yeah, it's like a London Jackson almost well and
Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
And and that album is a little bit different than the
first one because there areoriginals on it and she's
Starting to blend this sound.
She's coming up with with thattraditional sound on that album
in a way that she did not herfirst album and In a way that
she completely sort of embraceson With the Cindy Williams album
.
But, as I mentioned, she endsup moving to New York because

(28:19):
she wants to be close to folkways that's where they're based
and She starts playing the folkclubs around there, in
particular Gertie's folk city,and she becomes the reason I'm
telling.
This is kind of interesting.
She becomes friends with a guywho runs, who owns the club, and
She's trying to get on the listto get a regular gig there And

(28:41):
he lets her fill in from time totime when people aren't playing
.
And one night she gets off thestage and he goes hey, lucinda,
come here, i want to introduceyou to somebody.
And he walks over and he goesthat this is, this is Bobby
Dylan, and introduces her to BobDylan and And she says she
freaks out about it.
She shakes his hand.
It's just awestruck becausehe's he's, he's Bob Dylan and so

(29:04):
obviously he's not gonna stickaround for very long because
he's Bob Dylan.
So she goes in and stations aresold by the front door, so
he'll have to walk by her on theway out.
And He have it, according toher.
He leans over, gives her asmall kiss on the cheek and says
Let's keep in touch.
We're about to go on the roadand she's like alright.
And sure enough, two decadeslater She ends up opening for

(29:25):
Bob Dylan and She said that Iguess they were.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
They were pretty old by them.
She was a little disappointed.
They thought she thought they'dall go hang out after she said
she didn't speak a word to himthe entire time.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
I don't know she'd open for him for a while and she
said that everybody just wentyeah.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
Which.
If I were Bob Dylan, I would berunning from my hotel room too.
And what you thought?
I?

Speaker 4 (29:53):
walked out early and Bob Dylan was As I was walking
out of the.
He was in his bus leaving.
I saw Bob Dylan leaving in hisbus and you left the show early
I.
Left the show early because Ihad to meet people was he still
playing when you left?
No, he was, he was given hisencore going.

(30:14):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, i just hauled that.
But.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
I can.
I cannot imagine being BobDylan and having everybody come
up and say the same damn thingto you.
I was influenced me so much.

Speaker 4 (30:26):
Voice of a generation .

Speaker 1 (30:28):
And he might be fun.
I don't know, he might be okayto have a beer with.
I can't imagine Van Morrison bemuch fun to hang out.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
Think the thing, i think the greatest moment in Bob
Dylan's life was when he wasabout to play at the Yankee
Stadium and He went to look atit Just just on the little walk,
and these cops pulled him over.
Oh yeah, because someone calledand says there's a suspicious
looking character walking for aproper bait walk And he goes uh.

(30:55):
So they pull him over.
They have no idea who he is.
He goes well, well, i'm playinghere tonight, yeah, okay,
whatever, no, i'm Bob Dylan andthey don't know.
You know I wrote those songs Tomy friend.
He goes can you just, maybe youcan just drive me to my man?

(31:16):
So they drive him to this party, where his manager or somebody
is, and they find out who he is.
But it's got to be one of thegreatest moments of his life to
finally not having someone torecognize him.
Yeah, oh, you've moved me somuch and you've you've changed.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
It's like your friend who Met Robert plant, Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:36):
He goes, he's played at the band called Led Zeppelin
goes.
I've heard of that.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Spends all night talking to the guy Right next to
Love wheels.
Yeah, great, great record store.
So yeah, what?
I guess the the big kind ofchanges.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
She ends up moving to LA from Austin and 84 is 1984,
i think a Big effect on hersound, as we talked about
earlier, which makes this herbreakthrough album.
Yeah, when, when this is so arebeing all that, california, the
meshing of the yeah and Iwanted to look up and see what

(32:17):
album Tom Petty put out rightbefore this one, to see if that
would explain the, the influenceor how was it the one we did?

Speaker 4 (32:26):
No, it was wake me up .
I've had enough.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
Okay, why is it?
What must this?
probably not it They, but youknow she's.
she put out a cover album ofall Tom, a lot of Tom Petty song
Which nobody needs to listen to, but it just underscores this
Influence and she, she openedfor them for a while.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yeah, and he, and evidently that was different.
Nobody was paying attention toher and he actually came out on
stage and said to the crowd Youneed to pay attention to this
person and she's never.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
She always loved him for doing that, yeah, so it
sounds like that experience wasmuch different than Bob Dylan.
And yeah, more Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Well, you know it's interesting when she got this
band together, that's on thisalbum, Gurf Morlicks, and who
else is it jam?
The well Jim Lardale singsthese things backup, but he
wasn't in the band.
I don't think um it was uh, oryou got Johnny Donald Lindley.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
Yeah, the drums and uh.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
And then the guy uh Doug was um Johnny Kimbo, till
You know, you know, you knowwhat band he was in.
Johnny CM Botti.
I don't he was in clover.
No, really plays bass on my aimis true, really.
Wow, he's basest in this band.
He played bass on my aim, istrue, yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:44):
I had no idea.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh, it's a little bit of aconnection, i guess.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
Um, All right, baby, this is Venus flat trap.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Remember chupaca.
Is that uh bass in the pocketjam?
Can I have some purple berries?
Um?

Speaker 3 (34:15):
okay, are we doing?
we got, we got some juicyconnections to uh, i Have
nothing.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
I've got.
I've got another one, doug, ifyou want me to go please, please
, i'm not the host Edwards.
Who plays keyboards on thisalbum?
Hmm, he plays keys on americanand me.

Speaker 4 (34:33):
Is that right Right?

Speaker 1 (34:34):
He's on the Steve forbert album.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
You know, is that I haven't thought of that, but
they both got that southernthing going on.
There's some similarities.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
There's a lot of similarities.
Uh, i just real quick, becausewe often talk about connections
and don't actually talk aboutwhy we're doing this.
This is where we makeconnections to podcasts of
albums we've done before, justto show how kind of Small the
musical universe is, thatthere's and because, unlike what
we say about The songs, theseconnections are really

(35:05):
interesting.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
No, you're right, you'reabsolutely right.
Um.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
Well, she, uh, she has a connection with
springsteen.
Uh-huh.
They had dinner together and,uh, patty and bruce ended up
seeing a background on one ofher albums, uh-huh, and she was
extremely excited about that.

Speaker 4 (35:24):
Gurf morleks plays on this album.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, what connection does he have?

Speaker 4 (35:28):
actually not very much, except that he has played
with some other guys we'vetalked about Before and he's
from.
he spent a lot of time inaustin Gurf, morleks is an
amazing guy.
He's an amazing guy, incrediblynice guy, humble nice guy to
have many of them a couple times.
He's spent a lot of time herein austin.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Um, well, this isn't really connection per se with an
with uh, with this album and analbum we talked about, but She
was married to greg souters fromthe long writers and i've
recommended a long writers albumon one of our episodes, so i'll
just throw that out there.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
Um, that's hanging by a thread there.
They're married for about ayear, but i'm about to be as bad
as you go ahead.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Rackruder.
Oh no, there is a ricketerconnection.
What is that?
Uh, the harmonica player That'sright Played with this album
played with ricketer on thecrossroads film soundtrack.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
The one about The crotty kid became a guitar.
Are you doing?

Speaker 1 (36:30):
um, do you know what else?
do you know what else thatharmonica player is on Or what
else he's known for?
well, first of all, many peoplewho listen may know this.
Maybe they don't.
Jam knows this.
He's on the live in vegaspleasure barons album.
No, pleasure barons, mojo and,uh, handsome dick, and those
guys, um well, he played for thetheme song on home improvement.

(36:53):
That's what i was gonna say.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
He's the theme song for home improvement as well,
and rosa and or what's the onewith the, the couple that's both
fat.
And they said oh, here is aconnection.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
Here is a connection to not only a band we did but
another artist we did.
He plays harmonica On songs inthe soundtrack for lobomba And
and of course we've got thoselobos and who played buddy holly
in the film.
Marshall cranch, marshallcranchaw.
Oh yeah, so we're gonna, we'remaking all the connections

(37:23):
tonight.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
Maybe we are connected.
We have all been given.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Salo either so we've done a pretty good.

Speaker 4 (37:30):
We did a pretty good job All right connected But yeah
.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
So it's kind of funny when the band gets together,
when she gets these guys playingin the band, they get five,
five bucks A gig.
She gets, gives, is able togive each of them a dollar and
she gets to keep two.
I mean it's ridiculous.
They're not making any money.
Gurf morlex, i say she's beingpaid too much.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Let me just remind you, the United States soccer
team makes much less than theamerican man.
This is early on.
This is what you moved.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
La Gurf morlex was thinking about leaving the band
because he's like i can't makeany money doing this.
He really liked it, but hecan't make anyone do it, and
then Rough trade comes a knockin.
Well, i guess we should talkbefore, though, they she got a
deal with cbs to record somedemos and she essentially does

(38:18):
that.
She goes in and records Most Ithink most, or if not all, of
the songs.
She was given 35 000.

Speaker 4 (38:24):
Yeah, a lot of this album Yeah um, and who?

Speaker 1 (38:27):
the guy who produced it was um, eddie henry louis,
who produced blue, joni michels,blue All right, did some
Leonard Cohen and neil youngalbums.
Um, and he brought in so thather band isn't on those demos
Who brings in terry adams, fan,rbq garth Hudson from the band
and henry butler, a pianist, andthat's who plays on these demos

(38:49):
.
and, uh, the deal was that um,cbs columbia, whoever it is,
they said, record these demosand if we like them we'll sign
you.
She plays them for them.
They're like well, this is wayToo country for us, we're gonna
pass.
But you know what?
We'll send it to our Nashvilleaffiliate.
See what?
they think There's too rock androll for rock and roll for them

(39:09):
.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
So they needed the donnie marie, they did.
I'm a little bit country.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
She, um, she ends up shopping this thing around and
nobody wants it.
Nobody wants it, so then getsin her in her rough trade.
Rough trade, which was a labelout of the uk that was known for
signing bands like the smithsand, i think, uh, later on, like
camper van bethoven was onrough trade.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
I think even uh steve van zand was on rough trade at
one point.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
But they were.
They were looking to get aninroad into the us and so they
were looking to sign artists andum.
And robin hurley contactslucinda williams and says we
love your voice, would you liketo do a record with us?
and she's like are you kiddingme?
Um, they never heard her live.
Play live.
I'm assuming they heard thedemos.
I don't know why.
I'll say it, you know, but um,Yeah and, as I mentioned earlier

(40:00):
, they they just went in andknocked, knocked the stuff out.
Gurf morleks, who's this is thefirst producer credit he gets
and I think it's maybe aco-producer credit.
I think there's two otherpeople that helped produce the
album, but, um, he said that hewas the big thing that he wanted
to go for was he was a big fanof those early jackson brown
albums, huh, and he wanted, likefor every man and he wanted.
He wanted to go for that sound,and he also wanted this the

(40:24):
album to be timeless, like.
The last thing I wanted to dowas create an album that sounded
like it was stuck in the 1980s,and I think it succeeded.
This does not sound like in1980.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
It is true, that's.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
I call that time stamp, in fact that's one of the
things I have in my notes.
It's like it does not soundlike it came from this era
because you know, at that timethe thing they were doing with
drums Was just making thatexplosion sound.
Oh yeah, yeah, and that thatwasn't going on.
He was a really really tightguy and the uh, i mean it really
wasn't a lot of effects on theguitars Or there was a lot of

(40:54):
stuff they could have done tohave made this more Radio
friendly and they didn't do it.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Do you guys know why this was out of print for 10
years?
You could not find this albumfor 10 years or more.
That's probably a legal deal.
She had to re-release itherself.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
That just is weird to me.
That's very weird.
I just learned this week whypeople do so many remasteries To
get the money themselves.
Yeah, i had no idea that that'sI said.
Why the hell is everybodyremastering?
I can't even tell thedifference to get out of it.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
It's to get around the contract.
Yeah, huh Yeah.

Speaker 4 (41:25):
I guess you get there at the source tapes.
You can do whatever you wantwith them.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
So I appreciate knowing that now, because it
makes me less angry that they'reoh, it's so remastered.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
Um, are we ready to talk about this album guys?

Speaker 3 (41:40):
Why not.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Do we jam?
Do you want to say anythingabout any of the other musicians
you mentioned Jim Lauderdale,anyone else you want to talk
about?

Speaker 4 (41:47):
Well, i mean, we we've talked about GERF Morlicks
a little bit, but I do think weneed to give him a little bit
more of his do?
he is, um, a Phenomenal guitarplayer.
He's got a very distinctive Uhstyle and uh, it shows very much
on this album.
Another thing he's reallyreally good at is engineering.

(42:10):
Um, he is like he's choo-chooEngineering and album.
Uh.
He's he's great at Uh mixing analbum and uh, i just heard kind
of like firsthand that he isvery hands-on in the studio
about how things sound.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
He's also a heck of a .
I mean, i've heard, i've heard.
I have one of his albums.
He's a heck of a performer too.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
Yeah, i mean he does not, he's um.
I've seen him play with thewild seeds a couple of times and
he's just um He is a very wildseeds Yeah uh, a consummate
performer.
He.
Uh, when he takes the solo andstuff.
I mean he and john d Grahamplaying guitar together.
It's one of the funnest thingsyou can.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
You can actually see well, and he, if you look at his
credits on this album, he's,he's like one of those, every
man, i mean any stringedinstrument He's.
He's playing the steel, thedobro, the mandolin, both six
and twelve strings.
He plays the six string bass.
Yeah, um, i mean, it's just, idon't think you can and this is

(43:17):
not to take anything away fromlucinda willis, but I don't
think you can, uh, uh, discountthe partnership, these two, the
two no, you can making thisalbum.

Speaker 4 (43:24):
Yeah, and you've just never seen a guy who just
enjoys music more than kerfmorlix.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Yes, absolutely, i saw an interview with him and uh
, maybe it's just because he'sold, but it sure seems pleasant
and and Was not grasping at allfor any credit.

Speaker 4 (43:42):
Yeah, he doesn't.
He's very behind the scenes and, um, even though he does, when
he performs, it's, it's.
I mean he is fun to watch andyou just watch his guitar
playing.
Go, i can do that, i can dothat and you're like no.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
I never have that feeling, i never get one of
those uh, understated guitarplayers, that.

Speaker 4 (44:01):
But yeah, and the last guy I I want to talk about
is um Donald linling.
We briefly mentioned him, buthe was.
He was kind of a texas drummerStaple for a lot of albums.
He also played with Dave album,dave alvin, and he played on

(44:27):
one of my favorite albums of alltime, which I hope we're gonna
do At some point you can pick it.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
You know you got a choice.
still, Yeah, I know you're outof time out.

Speaker 4 (44:38):
King of california, which is a fantastic album, and
it's he plays much differentlyon that than he does on on this
album, but, um, yeah, he livedhere for quite a while.
Unfortunately, he died.
He played on Um car wheels on agravel road and pretty soon
after that he died of lungcancer Unfortunately, so he

(45:00):
passed away in 1999.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Before we get to the album, i have one little bit of
trivia that I think is kind offunny.
So john Uh cmb ot, or howeveryou say his name, the bassist
the guy who was in clover thatwas on my name is true, and his
bassist on this album He's adoctor, because he's a diet
doctor of chiropractic, he's achiropractor.
I just thought that wasinteresting.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Well, I can't need to have in your uh on your tour.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Especially if you're a bassist, that's a damn heavy
instrument.
Go out of alignment.
Alrighty boys.
So first, uh, we're gonna getinto the album Lucinda Williams.
Lucinda Williams, first song onside one, and this was back
when you had sides Still 1988.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
I just wanted to see you so bad.
I just want to see if you.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
Alrighty, i really am happy that the organ got in
there Me too.

Speaker 4 (46:26):
That's fantastic.

Speaker 3 (46:27):
That's one of the big changes from the first two
albums.
Yeah, and it.
this sounds like a TonyPowerpuff.

Speaker 4 (46:37):
I got that in my notes.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
That's funny.
I just think I was gonna sayour cliche that we always say
when a song is like this, whichis this is a great way to start
this album.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
It is.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
It's so much fun, this song is so much fun.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
Well, it's a declaration.
If you think about her fansthat had the first two albums
here in this, they're going what?

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Well Ears was interesting.
So this was song was started inthe late 70s.
She started writing this songin the late 70s Way before the
Columbia Deal and the Demos cameout, because she had had a
crush on some poet named BruceWeigel, i think was his name, or
Weigel Gotta start writingpoetry.
She was living in Houston.

(47:19):
She went up to Little Rock toplay a gig and he was there the
same night doing a poetryreading and they kind of hooked
up or whatever and she got acrush on me.
He said he was exactly the kindof guy she's looking for.
He's the motorcycle you know.
Yeah, he's.

Speaker 4 (47:37):
I mean, he's just leather jacket, motorcycle.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
He's, you know that, the rough and tumble guy with a
heart of gold, type of whatever.
And they kept in touch and thisis what inspired the song.
She's living in Houston.
He was gonna be in San Antonio.
He calls her up and says hey,i'm gonna be in a conference in
San Antonio.
Can you come meet me there?
And so she's certainly.
She throws some stuff in a bag.
She's expecting fireworks.

(48:00):
She gets there and he says, bythe way, i'm married and my
wife's pregnant.
She's like, well, this didn'tturn out the way.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
I wanted it to, so she writes this song.

Speaker 4 (48:13):
Yeah, this song pretty much perfectly captures
that exhilaration when you'relike in a new relationship or
like you'll do anything to gosee whoever that person is.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
I still feel that way , even though my relationship is
not new.

Speaker 4 (48:31):
I don't understand what you're saying.
Yeah you just want to see thatperson more than anything in the
world.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
But this sounds like simple songwriting, but there's
it's not.
She's going to a big hotel.
She has to go to the seventhfloor.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
She well, and there's a double meaning to that too,
is there?
Yeah, i would think so.
Going to the seventh floor islike this guy sending her to the
moon, type of thing, you know?

Speaker 3 (48:53):
Yeah, well, she keeps getting smaller and smaller
through this song.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yeah, yeah, and that's interesting, it's so
honest It's.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
it's people don't really express this kind of
honesty.
But she's just pathetic in loveand she's not yet.
Yeah, everything, she's justshrinking down And I think it's.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
I think it's really kind of what's interesting about
her songwriting at this point,because it's not.
It's not this sort of and wedon't want to sound like a
broken record, but it's not thissort of beating on your chest
defiance.
She lets herself be in thatplace.

Speaker 4 (49:31):
It's very human Again .
It's not self-conscious Veryhuman.
She's channeling, she's notprotecting herself.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Yeah, yeah and you think you hear lyrics of these
women and like I can have I meanthey sing they sing the same as
blues guys back in the 60s LikeI can have 500 men and I've got
the best butt in the whole cluband this is the exact opposite
of all that.
I don't think she mentions thebuttons.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Yeah, it's not rap.
You know who covered this song.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
Yes, emily Lou Harris , a connection with Ronnie
Crowell?
Yeah, they did a duet.
They do a lot together.

Speaker 4 (50:13):
I did not know that.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
Yeah, it was on there .
it was a song on their duetalbum Traveling Kind.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
Oh, it's a good album .
I forgot I didn't know thatalbum.
It's on my own that It's agreat song.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
It is a fantastic.
I love the drumming.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Yeah, and when you mentioned the organ, i defy you
to listen to the song and notbeing a good mood every time the
organ pops in.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
It's so true, all these songs.
the subject matter is notnecessarily happy, but you're
sitting there going yeah, it wasfunny.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
I was thinking about this as I was driving over here.
This is gonna be one of thosealbums where Doug talks about
the lyrics and the subjectmatter being some of the songs.

Speaker 4 (50:55):
I think that's one of the things, especially with
this song.
It's like she's still got thatoptimism that's going on.
I don't say it's still going,but the music is keeping that
optimism up.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
That's a good point.
Yeah, the music's driving that.
It's her character too.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
I'm going to perfectly explain that when we
get to a song later on.
Okay so then y'all need toworry about it.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
All right, we ready to move on to the next song.
Yeah, this is a song aboutnight, about vampires.
Right, the night's too long.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
But then it's not long enough.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
It's so hard not to sing along with these songs as
they're playing.
It is.

Speaker 4 (52:03):
This is another song I said it's a trodden path.
It's another song about longingfor something more and escaping
and trying to reinvent yourself, but still not finding that
satisfaction.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
Well, what's interesting about it is it's in
the third person, which isunusual for her songwriting,
from what I can tell.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
You know who it sounds like.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Springsteen Yep, it is definitely a story song.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
It sounds like Nebraska or the River I think on
the highway.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
I think I even said kind of Springsteen-y in here.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Oh did you write that as well?

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Yeah, very Springsteen.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
It is.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
It is.
It's that taking a characterand but I don't know how much
Bruce puts in.
I mean, i'm sure there'spersonal stuff in that, but this
is, this is her.

Speaker 4 (52:54):
I know, yeah, the guy's shirt's all soaked with
sweat.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
She's not trying to figure out what this is like.
She's been there.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Well, and I love you mentioned before we started the
song about the title, which is anight's too long, but then the
chorus says it's not long enoughand I think that is such a
great image that this poor woman, who kind of gives up on
everything, hops in a rusted outcar, drives it from Beaumont to
wherever she's going.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
And Beaumont's the perfect town to choose.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
It is.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
My whole life I've always felt sorry for people
that live above I know.

Speaker 4 (53:28):
When I lived in Mason Texas, in San Angelo, it was
like who won't?

Speaker 1 (53:31):
San Angelo Beaumont does have the world's largest
fire hydrant, but I digressAnyway that doesn't make up for
so much.
But what I love about it isit's this woman who's lonely.
She's obviously moved someplaceelse to try to change her life,
but she still finds herselfbeing lonely, and so the night
is bad, because it's when she'sthinking about the stuff, except

(53:52):
when she's out and she bumpsinto this stranger And she's
having a good time.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
and then it's like I don't want this ever to end.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
I just think that's a really cool sort of judgment.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
It's really honest, like she like.
Here's the justification for medoing all of this, and she
doesn't tell you about how she'sfeeling, or how this lady's
feeling.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
She's painting a picture for you And the picture
tells you But yeah, and she evengives her that sort of again,
that strength of leaning upagainst the bar and watching
what's going on.
After the experience with theDuke, yeah, all the.
Nicole Corona.
Yeah, so Patty Lovelacerecorded this and had a top 20
hit for it from it.

(54:33):
And what's funny is that oneline about he presses up against
her in his shirts all soakedwith sweat.
Music Row in Nashville had alittle trouble with that line.
I mean, i don't think they madeher change it, but they
bristled at it.
They thought it was a littletoo risky for the old.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
they're so funny.
Yeah, i think what would.
what would happen if there werean Austin?

Speaker 4 (54:52):
What would Wayland do ?

Speaker 3 (54:54):
He'd written he'd pull that gun out and shooting
by it's.
Looking at them numbers.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Yeah, anyway, all right, we're ready to move on to
song number three, abandoned.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
All right Song number three abandoned.

Speaker 4 (55:40):
This is pretty heartbreaking song and it's
another thing where you knowthat she's pretty much
experienced this.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
She can just tell that the guy is the guys on his
way, he's way out and she'scalling them out.

Speaker 4 (55:54):
Yeah, and she's like I'm not going to stop you, but
I'm, you know, i'm also notgoing to end this.
It's up to you and it, yeah,all she can do is wait.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
I have a question for you.
Is this going to sound?
I don't mean this to sound likejudgment or anything.
I just I was thinking aboutthis because there's songs on
this album that to me seemalmost too vulnerable for her
voice, if that makes any sense.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
I think her voice sounds vulnerable, so I'm
confused.

Speaker 4 (56:24):
Yeah, i have the same reaction that.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
Doug has.

Speaker 4 (56:27):
Yeah, rick Lee Jones may have a more vulnerable.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
I guess, i guess, but it's I don't have the history
with this album that you guys do, so maybe it's the fact that
the songs like the more uptemposongs are the ones that appeal
to me more.
So it's difficult for me toshift.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
Okay, you're thinking that Emily Harris was saying in
this suit, you would be moresympathetic.
Yeah, i think so.

Speaker 4 (56:47):
I think you're right, but but, but she's, she does
have kind of a detached way ofthe song isn't this song doesn't
?

Speaker 1 (56:56):
it doesn't strike me as much, as there's a song later
on where I think her voicedoesn't work very well.

Speaker 4 (57:01):
Well, i I might agree with that.
We might be talking about thesame song, but I think that the
thing that she's got, the thingthat I like about her delivery
on this song, is that she'sresigned to it.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Yeah, she's resigned.

Speaker 4 (57:13):
This is going to happen.
So she's not necessarily she's,she's not crying yet.
It's just like this is going tohappen.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
I'm not bringing this up because I think her voice
sounds bad, because I don't.
I like this song.
I think her voice sounds fineon it.
I just think that there's songYou know you say this, doug that
there's songs where somebody'slike this is what their voices
match for, and I think there'ssongs on this album in the up
and again maybe it's just myexperience with the album The
upbeat one seemed like that'swhere she's really able to do

(57:40):
with one exception that we'llget to later that where she's
really able to kind of hit, hitthe nail on the head with it.

Speaker 4 (57:47):
I think she hit the nail on the head with this one.
Well, i think.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
I have a long history with this album and I remember
which songs were rising to thetop and this one was slow to
rise.
It was for me too, yeah, sothat may be part of what's going
on.
I don't know.
I hear vulnerability in hervoice and I'm I don't know what
is in my DNA, but when I hearthese women sing and they're

(58:15):
hurt and I mean it is impactfulon me, i want to go fix
everything.

Speaker 4 (58:19):
But the thing that that I hear is, like I was
saying earlier, that she'sresigned.
She's resigned to it.
But she's detached from it.
She's not crying, she's still.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
It's sort of matter of fact, it's very matter of
fact.
It's like she's used to it.

Speaker 4 (58:35):
I'm used to it.
Exactly, i'm used to it, i'mbitter and I'm jaded.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
You know it's funny.
I don't think she's bitter.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
I think she's.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
I think it's funny because she was talking about
This is going to happen toyou're just going to do it to me
again.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
So I full disclosure.
I listen to some of her Herautobiography for preparing for
this and she talks about hermarriage with Greg Saders, who
was at this time I guess it hadkind of fallen apart and he was
the first guy that she everdated that was in the music

(59:11):
business and he was gone all thetime.
She was the one that was usedto being gone to do go tours and
stuff and so it was somethingthat she was not used to and I
wonder if that's kind of what'syou know going?

Speaker 2 (59:23):
on here.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
Yeah, you know this feeling of hey, where's my,
where's my guy, you know.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
Nobody writes songs about the time they dumped
someone else or when theyweren't available.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
I'm so glad that I don't you I know I keep talking
about the people who coveredthese songs, but there's one.
this.
this one's interesting.
Any idea who?
who covered the song?
Rod Stewart?
No, almost the same in terms ofthe weirdness of Rod Stewart
covering a jellyfish song, theLemonheads.

Speaker 4 (59:56):
Are you serious?

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Yeah, i think Evan Dando has a has a thing for
country music, so Evan Dando'sgoing to the school, my
daughter's going.

Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
He went to the school , my daughter's going.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Because he they recorded the Lemonheads,
recorded a version of Nash orKnoxville girl.
so I think I think he's gotlike a, he's got a little Jonesy
.
Yeah, i think he's got theElvis Costello Jonesy for being
a country star, type of thing.
That's funny, yeah, anyway, ijust thought it was interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
Elvis Costello has covered.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
No, they did.
they sang together too.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
All right, all right, i saw that on YouTube.
That's pretty good, it is, itis.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
You need to post that .
I will post that on the website.
Okay, song number four and it'sa good Big Red Sun Blues, which
is not a blues.

Speaker 4 (01:01:13):
What a good song.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
This is my third favorite on the album, your
third favorite And I, i mean Ilove it.
So that doesn't mean.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
What's your favorite?
I'm not telling you.
Yet We haven't gotten to you,yet This is my second favorite
song on the album.

Speaker 4 (01:01:29):
It's.
It's one of my favorite songson the album.
I don't, i don't, i justremember when this song the
first time I heard.
This song is really, reallyliking it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
This is simple and fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
songwriter I am such a sucker for any song that has
like that spand it, the countrysong that has that Spanish flair
going on, yeah, yeah.
And the everything about thissong is damn near perfect, the
instrumentation of it, her, herher voice.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
Well, that's the most Background.
This is what her voice is for.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
It's kind of interesting that like every it's
another, one It's another onewhere the the verses, or every
verse, is a little bit differentthan instrumentation and the
thing it's.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
It's another song about being disaffected with and
this is the, the mother of themall, and this is where I had my
great like the only thing she'sgot going for is the the Big
Red Sun.

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
So, here's what I think This is like.
She got what the, the personthat from the, the nice too long
, got what she wanted, and thenshe realizes that it's not all
it's cracked up to be and she's.
All you left me with was a BigRed Sun to look at what at the

(01:02:37):
beginning?

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
what's cool about this song and this?
may be an accident, or maybe onpurpose.
I like to think it's on purpose, with the guidance of her poet
father.
But at the beginning of thesong she's talking to the guy
Yeah, at the end of the song.
That at the beginning of thesong everything is going wrong.
It's not right anymore.

(01:02:58):
We can't.
We she's talking to him.
We can't seem to get along theway we did before.
Okay.
So at the beginning of the songshe's talking to the guy.
At the end of the song look outat the western sky, out over
the open plains.
God only knows why.
This is all that remains.
But give me one more promiseand another kiss, and I guess

(01:03:24):
the deal's still on you, big RedSun.
So she's talking to the Sun, orGod, or whatever.
The sunset represents her atthe end of the song and it's
like here we go again.
Okay, i'm not gonna give up.
Yeah, i'm gonna go and do itagain just like.
Fellini's greatest film 69.

(01:03:46):
No nights of Cabri Ria I can'tspeak Italian where it's about
that poor woman who's aprostitute and each time she
meets some man she thinks, oh,this is gonna get me out of this
deal.
And she gets us a guy and hetakes her to the river, pushes
her in the river, stills herpurse, and then the next guy

(01:04:10):
treats her poorly and thenfinally, at the end of the movie
she thinks she's about to getmarried and the guy stills all
her money, pushes her away andleaves and she's brokenhearted
and she starts walking back totown and she gets caught up in
that parade.
She starts her she's got alittle tear from her mascara,

(01:04:33):
but she's her hope comes backand she starts getting happy and
happy and then she joins theparade and she's forgotten
everything behind.
This song reminds me of that somuch this is.
This is her going through thewhole heartbreak and then she's
telling him the Sun, god, theuniverse, whatever she's up for

(01:04:54):
it again.
Yeah, it's a brilliant.
I love this song it is.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
It's a great song, it is, it's fantastic.
And again, just to repeat, idefy you to be in a bad mood
listening to this song you can'tdo it, you cannot, and she's
heartbroken.

Speaker 4 (01:05:10):
I cannot listen to this song well, it's got in the
six-string bass makes anappearance.
You can't get depressed when asix-string bass comes into a
that's a heck, that's a bigpocket, the 16 bases.

Speaker 3 (01:05:22):
I always said that about banjo it's a it's a great
song.

Speaker 4 (01:05:28):
It's fantastic.
This is one of those that Iused to had.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
I used to have great deal of trouble listening to
this song one time.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
I don't think, i don't, i don't think, i did, i
think.
Every time this song came on, irepeated it again, yeah it's so
seductive.
Yeah, all right.
Moving on to song number fiveon side one, and that is like a
rose that song is beautiful andhas so much trouble coming out

(01:06:31):
in this album.

Speaker 4 (01:06:32):
I.
I have the exact same.
Yeah, i have the exact samethoughts.
It's like this song could havebeen done so much, but it almost
needs a piano and a stringsection by I think the fit, i
think the fiddle is perfect.
I think the fiddle is beautifulon it, but I just think that

(01:06:53):
there's just a way manipulatesme a lot with that fiddle on
this.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
I but again I'm gonna to.
This is a song I was talkingabout with her voice.

Speaker 4 (01:07:02):
I agree with you.
I have the exact same.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
I and again, this is no knock on her, but it's.
It doesn't seem like it's whatit's for is this exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:07:14):
I think that her voice she's not lend itself to
this.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
I'm gonna tell you who she sounds like to me, and
you're gonna punch me when I saythis Nico.

Speaker 4 (01:07:23):
I'm not gonna punch you.
I think that's.
I think that why I think Nicocould have done this song.
You know who else I think couldhave done?
this on Ricky Lee Jones andcould have done it in with.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
I just Lucinda.
Lucinda, we talked about hervoice.
It's not.
It's not the strongest voice,or whatever, but it is a great
voice.
It works.
It's great distinctive but hereit's sort of just a.
It's like a single tone rightand and it, and to me it's a
beautiful, beautiful song.
It is beautiful, the melody isbeautiful and just the one knock

(01:07:56):
and I hate to say this, but theone knock on it is her voice
just kind of takes me out of ityes, i have the exact same
reaction.

Speaker 3 (01:08:02):
I have nothing in common with y'all on that.
Okay, her voice draws me in.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Well, i'm a jackass, what can I say?

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
I've been trying to avoid that all night.

Speaker 4 (01:08:13):
I don't understand about the rose in her hand and
all just the way she hears herrose in my hand it's.
It is like a Nico delivery and.
I don't hear that man mydaughter, my daughter yeah,
exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
My daughter heard that when I was playing this.
I said, is this sound like?
and she's like I don't know.
I said any, nico, she's.

Speaker 4 (01:08:32):
Oh my god yes, that's my my daughter loves Nico,
which I mean I'm like yeah, thatalbum, like Chelsea girl, i
think is a fine it, but it is a.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
Nico sounds like a android to me and I haven't seen
that many and I don't, i reallydon't.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
I don't want it, i don't want to disparage the song
.
I want to start the song, orLucinda but it's like about
Arkansas, it's Arkansas, butit's not the most interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:09:05):
No song that she did.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
It took me a long time for this to come Out from
the.

Speaker 4 (01:09:11):
I remember the other and through this Well it's, it's
has a hard time coming out fromthe others.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
It does, and that's not fair, because it's a good
song.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
It's a good song.
I don't, i don't skip it.
I don't feel like I need toskip it.
I don't, this song doesn't comeon and I'll go.
Oh, i listen to it.
It's just it, just to me.
It's good, it's just got, it'smissing a little bit of
something.

Speaker 4 (01:09:33):
Yeah, but I kept saying all it.
It needs a piano and it needs astring section.
Even though there's a boat baySonnet and there is a fiddle and
the violin on it, the fiddleline is beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
But yeah, i wouldn't want the strings to drown that
out, because that's one of myfavorite things.

Speaker 3 (01:09:49):
I don't want strings on this album.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
Yeah, all right, he boys ready for the last song.
On side one change the locks.

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
Yep Alrighty.

Speaker 4 (01:10:31):
Or there was Carrie Underwood talking about breaking
headlights.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
There was this song this song is immensely popular
and I'm suspicious that it mightbe immensely popper Popper,
popular popper is the guybecause of the subject matter,
nothing I'm thinking of popperfrom Dickens a Christmas Carol.
He was the one that was tryingto kiss that girl at the whistle

(01:10:59):
to anyway.
That's far from what we'retalking about.
This is very popular with women.

Speaker 4 (01:11:03):
I think it starts off Really good and then I think it
loses control when it startstalking about I Changed the
tracks.

Speaker 3 (01:11:14):
That's.
I was thinking that today.
I said That's, that doesn'twork.
No, it should have been pastthen I changed the town.
I think the change in name ofthe town works because it's so
outrageous.
But the tracks on the train,that's outrageous too, though
Changing the tracks, yeah, yeah,but it's not the same kind of
so here.

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
Here's here's my take .
When, when she was shopping thedemos of this album around, she
one of the guys in Electra waslistening to him And he said I
don't know what to do with thisstuff.
Some of these songs feelhalf-written.
There's no bridge in some ofthem, and he used this song as
an example of a song that neededa bridge.
It doesn't need a break.

Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
I agree with the guy.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
I mean she got the last laugh because, as you said,
this song is hugely popular.
But I agree with the guy thissong needs something to break it
up.
Yeah, it's got this weird sortof hear me out, this weird sort
of 12 days of Christmas thingwhere everything builds right?

Speaker 4 (01:12:08):
No, it does, you're right.
That's very, very appropriateYeah it's.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
This happens in songwriting all the time.
Where they get a little, theyget a little tool.
Yeah and they just okay, i needa.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
I need a.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
I need a and B.
A is the tracks, b is the trainand they.
They play that game and UsuallyI don't find that very
interesting for very long and Ithink she carries it out for too
long.
There's Her voice, that waiver,and her voice works on this.

Speaker 4 (01:12:40):
I do, i I agree with that.
Yeah, because you don't know,that is she really.
There is a vulnerability, it'snot a pride thing.

Speaker 3 (01:12:48):
Well, if she's trying to have, she can't be proud
when she's talking about the guyjust calls her up on the phone
And she falls down underneathbecause of the things he said
that's yeah that's reallyblatant honesty.
But My Tony's right it needs abreak, and a guitar break is not
good enough.
It needs a bridge.
Needs a bridge.

(01:13:08):
Does everyone hear DavidGrissom on this?
Oh, this makes me.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
Yeah, every time I hear this.

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
I think how can this not be David Griss?

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
That's funny, that being said, though I Don't know
what other, i don't know whatother song he done the side with
.

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
I think I can tell you made a better song.

Speaker 3 (01:13:28):
This makes more sense , alive, i imagine.

Speaker 4 (01:13:30):
I'm so.
Here's the thing.
I don't like That.

Speaker 3 (01:13:35):
I mean we're better or worse angry at you for
dumping them, jam.
Is that what you're about tosay?

Speaker 4 (01:13:40):
No, the dis ushered in a Genre of songwriting from
the women's perspective that Idon't think needs to have
happened.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
It's like I am so angry.
I believe, doug, we've hit thepoint where James gonna start
getting hate mail instead of us.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
Right, I would like to separate myself from.
I would as well.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
I'm very interested in the one He doesn't represent.

Speaker 4 (01:14:05):
The viewpoints of this is my little tap the thing
about the song is it sounds likeshe's almost scared, right,
like there is a little bit oflike I am.
she's scared, she's angry,she's hard but the only thing
she get, the songwriting.
After this that comes like thatcarry underwood song.
I smash the.
Maybe he'll think next timebefore he cheats.

(01:14:26):
It's like it's just anger andthere's no like.

Speaker 3 (01:14:30):
I think guys have been writing songs like this for
a long.
What was it?
Maybe, if you leave me young,i'm gonna shoot you never gonna.
I mean it's with Steve Miller.

Speaker 4 (01:14:40):
Sorry, you breaking my heart, you tore it apart.
What is the Beatles?

Speaker 3 (01:14:43):
have.
Oh yeah, I'm gonna kill her.
Yeah happiness is a warm gun.

Speaker 4 (01:14:48):
No, no, no, no, that's about something else.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
That good gun is not a gun if you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:14:55):
I.
Ladies and gentlemen, pleaseget the children out of the room
.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
No, i don't.
I agree with Doug.
I think that I mean that thethe line he pointed to about Why
is she changing the number onthe phone.
Right, it's because she, if hecalls up, she's gonna.
She's just sucked in again.

Speaker 3 (01:15:13):
Yeah, she's right, she's making herself too weak.

Speaker 4 (01:15:16):
Yeah, i have a, and that's the part where I said
she's actually scared likewhat's gonna happen to her if
she's yeah starts Yeah.
I went down this path.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
Yeah, i mean it's a, It's a troubling song, musically
I think.
I mean I just In general Ithink and it seems really really
long.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
Well, that's because it does not have anything to
break up the monotony right, andand whoever that guy was that
told her that was It needed.
It needed John Linden's portionof the song to come in and
change it up.

Speaker 1 (01:15:49):
Yeah no, you're right , But again, as I said, she's
gotten the last laugh.

Speaker 3 (01:15:54):
this song is One of her most popular songs it is and
I, every time I've seen her,every time I've seen it was like
a, the thing at the end whereeverybody claps on core.
Yeah, it was a concord almostevery show I ever saw and
everybody, yeah well, we do haveto.

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
Just before we move on from the song, we do have to
play this.
Yes, ladies, gentlemen, that'sTom Petty covering the song it

(01:16:43):
means something completelydifferent.
He's gonna change the number onhis phone so she won't bother
It's so different and I don'tthink I've ever heard him sound
as twangy vocalist.
What the heck was that ataffectation?

Speaker 4 (01:17:01):
was something Louisiana rain, but yeah, he's
got that Louisiana rain.

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
That's cool.

Speaker 1 (01:17:07):
I've never heard that before all righty, we flip her
over, guys, and we got a hit.
Well, not for her, but we got ahit.
Passionate kisses.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
Her voice is again, the song is perfect for it and
you know I listen to Mary ChapinCarpenter's version today and
I've heard that before and It'ssuch a good song It's it's
really good when she does, butthis is a better version.

Speaker 4 (01:18:06):
It's a great, but Chapin Carpenter just doesn't
have the that well, she has astrong voice, she has a great
song.

Speaker 3 (01:18:14):
Have voice, but yeah, she's not communicating to me
like this does yeah, this songso jangly, God, i love it.

Speaker 4 (01:18:22):
I mean all it's missing.
I was just showing when we wereplaying it showing handclaps.

Speaker 3 (01:18:29):
And this, this song was ranked number 437 on Rolling
Stones 500 greatest songs ofall time.
It's a fantastic song.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
It's another song about poor Greg.
Drummers for the long riders.

Speaker 4 (01:18:46):
But it's just like what we're looking.
I mean, it's encapsulates.
Shouldn't I have that?
like just she's not goingthrough this list of like badass
things.
Like shouldn't I have all thisand passionate kisses?
Well, she does This?

Speaker 3 (01:19:01):
this strikes me.
This this is what I hate iswhen people talk about what they
deserve and I think I thinkchildren think they deserve
things and They want them andthey're upset.
They don't get adults know whatthey deserve And they, every
morning they wake up and thankGod that they haven't gotten
anything they deserve.
So this is.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
Look at it differently.
She's listening all thesethings.
Yeah you know, like thisfantasy that she deserves would
really what she wants.

Speaker 4 (01:19:33):
It's just passion, no , that's like of all this stuff
but I don't think what I want.

Speaker 3 (01:19:37):
This isn't a.
This isn't someone thankingrationally and making a list of
ways or something.
And the thing that gives itaway is my favorite line on the
whole album Pins that don't runout of ink.

Speaker 1 (01:19:51):
Well, it is annoying when your pen runs out of ink
And it's right, she's making allthis list and it's.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57):
It's like she's making a list and her pink.
She goes and finds another pinand right and pins that don't
run out of ink.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
That's pretty funny.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
Yeah, that is a lot of love this song.
That song is so great that the,the.

Speaker 3 (01:20:13):
The reason I love it is because Her voice is getting
across this.
This is just what I want.
Why can I have this right?
and it's it to me.
It's so feminine.
But again.

Speaker 4 (01:20:25):
It's also there's a detachment as to it, like she's
not.
One thing is love about hervoice, is it does seem a little
bit There.
It does never goes intohistrionics.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
She could have said and a pen that doesn't run out
of ink, you know, and shedoesn't do that.

Speaker 4 (01:20:40):
She's resigned to yeah, shouldn't I have this?

Speaker 3 (01:20:44):
And she she she and this is I can explain this.
this is the best way to explainthis song.
if Her man walked in andstarted explaining honey, you
have a lot of things, she wouldhate his guts and tear his eyes
out.
She goes just listen to me,don't try to fix everything.
That's exactly what this albumis and that's why I love it,

(01:21:06):
because, yeah, i think women areabsolutely fascinating,
especially when they're beingvery women, ish, women, and And
that's one of the reasons I lovethis album, i love this up Yeah
, exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:21:17):
It's very feminine, feminine album and it's you know
, you know who.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
It reminds me of a little bit.
Chrissy hind has that same kindof attitude.

Speaker 2 (01:21:28):
What do you know what ?

Speaker 3 (01:21:29):
Yeah, do you know what?
Oh, listen to Williamson.
Uh-huh, she would love to rocklike Chrissy hind, but she can't
but no, but they have that sameattitude.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
Chrissy hind is also just like unapologetic for being
a certain way, and she's likelook but she's not, she's not.

Speaker 4 (01:21:45):
She's not trying to be masculine, she's like right,
no she's, she's very powerfulperson.

Speaker 3 (01:21:52):
I remember, did we all go see that show together.
Yes, Yeah so I remember seeingher thinking That's the most in
charge person I have ever seen.
Yeah, and she was completely incommand and she did not lose
one bit of her Femininity righttime She was being.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
That's what I mean.
That's what I mean about theLucinda Williams Is that same
sort of able to embrace thataspect of it but not be, not be.

Speaker 4 (01:22:20):
I've got a great body .
Look at me.
I'm gonna, and I'm talkingabout how I am and it's nothing
that's.

Speaker 3 (01:22:27):
That's a, that's a Forgery.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
It's not the real thing, right here's an
interesting thing She said inher book about this song.
She said it's influenced,significantly influenced, by
Joan Armitrating.

Speaker 4 (01:22:38):
Which I.
She's another one.
It's pretty.

Speaker 3 (01:22:41):
She does.
It's like the Senate Williamssays things about influences.
To me that never makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:22:47):
Well, i, yeah, i think what I think.
What happens is they go throughsome sort of filter and come
out.

Speaker 4 (01:22:52):
Yeah, it was John Williams like John, armitrating
thing is I love it when you callme names.
Yeah, yeah, what is that about?
anyway, this is a one, so what?

Speaker 1 (01:23:01):
the one thing we didn't talk about, even though
we mentioned the version of it,is Mary Chave and Carpenter
records this in what 92?

Speaker 3 (01:23:09):
34 and.
Her album come on, come on andit wins.

Speaker 1 (01:23:13):
It hits a top 10, it wins Grammy for best country
vocals and Lucinda Williams winsa Grammy for best country song
for the writing.
It.
Is this a country song?
Oh, i think it's a country song.
I think it's.

Speaker 4 (01:23:29):
I don't know what a country song is anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:23:31):
No, I think the phrasing of it is definitely a
country song.

Speaker 4 (01:23:34):
Shouldn't I have this ?

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
No, i think, I think it is.

Speaker 4 (01:23:39):
Imagine Loretto Lynn, do it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:23:43):
It's not that I mean it's the, it's the.
It's the country that came outof that California scene.

Speaker 3 (01:23:48):
Yeah, yeah, i don't know, I, i, i, i don't know why
this is Also.

Speaker 4 (01:23:53):
I could use the birds doing it on.
Well, it's, it's a.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
It's too rock and roll for country in two country
for rock, yeah, but but againit's speed.
This is a prime example to meof this album coming out too
early, because if this song hadbeen released in 92 or 94, when
the Mary Chave and Carpenterversion was, it would have been
a smash hit.
Yeah it says nothing to do withwho's saying it.

(01:24:16):
It has everything to do withthe timing of when it was
released it seems like Shedoesn't have to think to write
these songs.

Speaker 3 (01:24:23):
It seems like she's just expressing herself and
She's channeling her.
That's such good song writingwhen it sounds like you just are
speaking your mind right and itturns into a song.
Yeah it reminds me of what VanMorrison does.

Speaker 4 (01:24:37):
Yeah, it really us.
Just think I kept thinkingthrough this whole album.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
All right, we ready to move on to the next song,
guys, which is Am I to blue?

Speaker 2 (01:25:16):
I.

Speaker 4 (01:25:19):
The song really doesn't do a whole lot for me
you're crazy, You're crazy.
I don't know what it is, it'sjust.
It's just kind of boring to me.
The lyrics are a little triteto me.
I don't really.
The guitar work is nice.
I like her voice quite a bit onit, but it just never moves me.

Speaker 1 (01:25:40):
unlike the other slower Ballity songs, her voice
is remarkable on this song It'sperfect.

Speaker 4 (01:25:45):
I think it's better.

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
I think the steel the steel guitar in the song is so
fantastic and and I love theacoustic guitar a little
flourish.

Speaker 3 (01:25:53):
Oh yeah, the guitar acoustic guitar is fantastic
this is something that, despitethe fact that we make such a big
deal out of albums at the verybeginning of this podcast, when
we first started, there has beensomething happening to me where
it's even more I'm even morethat way than I used to be,
where I don't want to hear asong, i want to hear, right,

(01:26:16):
full album, and this is one ofthe songs that is in the
background, and Just because itdoesn't jump out at you doesn't
obscure the fact that it's Soimportant to be on the album and
it's so helpful.

Speaker 1 (01:26:32):
I think that filling out the album and here's a story
behind it Might help you maybeunderstand a little bit more.
So when she was again GregSouters, i'm bringing this up
when they were struggling, she's, she said she used to blame
their struggles not on the factthat they were both never around
, but because of her moods, likeshe was depressed and she was
down all the time.

(01:26:53):
That's what this song is about.
Am I too blue for you?
Am I running you away becauseI'm just?

Speaker 4 (01:26:58):
I think so okay, but that's a sentiment that I think
a lot of us have had.
it's it's me, right, whenyou're, when you're with someone
and you're You're like, oh,it's me, i've been sad and Well,
you didn't realize who'sactually making you sad, i don't
know.
to me It's, it's just a almosta cliche song and it.

(01:27:19):
I'm not saying it need doesn'tneed to be on the album, i'm
just saying it's like that isprobably the weakest song in the
album.

Speaker 1 (01:27:25):
Alright, then moving right along to Crescent City
music.
Yeah, that fiddle's so good.

Speaker 4 (01:28:02):
This song is the one that made me fall in love with
Lucinda Williams.
This was the first song I everheard by her and I was totally
blown away.
It's almost a perfect song.

Speaker 3 (01:28:12):
The entry of that fiddle is the most effective
fiddle entry of all time.

Speaker 4 (01:28:18):
Well, it's about the Cajun, stuff, it's just like
someone's.

Speaker 3 (01:28:22):
It's like Q-Bitch shot his bow right through me.

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
Well, no, yeah, you're right Because it comes in
and it's got that Cajun.
But it's got that before thatpart of it hits that.
We just heard there's thatCajun.
I don't know what you call that.
I asked Grace what it wascalled.
My daughter plays a violin Whatthat's called when a fiddle
does that kind of shuffle soundthat they do inside a.
Cajun music.
But you're right that onemoment where there's a pause and

(01:28:47):
then it's like this, crystalclear, it's exactly like a punch
right in the heart.
Now there's multiple peoplethat are listed as singing
background vocals on this, butwho does?
do we know who does themajority of the backing vocals?

Speaker 4 (01:29:00):
I'm guessing it's Jim .

Speaker 1 (01:29:01):
Lauderdale.

Speaker 2 (01:29:02):
Because they sound great together.

Speaker 1 (01:29:04):
They really do This song and this song and a song
later on that we're going totalk about.

Speaker 4 (01:29:10):
They sound fantastic together when they sing This is
go ahead, Jim, the thing aboutthis song and I don't know if
this is really what it's about,but it's like.
I mean, i grew up in a smalltown, or well, i spent four
years in a small town of my,when I was a kid, in Mason Texas
, and I remember when we movedaway from there and we'd still

(01:29:32):
come back to Mason Texas.
I would just remember what mylife was like there and it would
be like the parents would justyou know they'd had a few and
they would like, all of a sudden, the parents were interested in
something that you could do,Like Jonathan play the Quezon
song on piano or something, orJonathan recite the first 10
presidents of the United Statesor something Can you still do?

(01:29:55):
that I'm not sure I can, but itjust like, and it just reminded
me so much like fireflies in the, in the, in the fields, and all
that sort of stuff, and you're,you're, you're playing where a
wolf comes out tonight, orwhatever, it's just like a great
beautiful song.

Speaker 3 (01:30:12):
Did we say this was a song called Chris and Sadie?

Speaker 1 (01:30:14):
I think so.

Speaker 3 (01:30:15):
Which is of course New Orleans.
And I haven't been able to fitthe time in where New Orleans
became her hometown.

Speaker 4 (01:30:21):
No, she's going back to the Crescent City.

Speaker 3 (01:30:24):
I know She's she's reliving.
To me this is a love song andit's a defiant love song about
your hometown And I don't knowat what point in her life New
Orleans was her hometown, butshe sounds like she's completely
this song she lived in NewOrleans in the early 70s, so

(01:30:44):
that must have been a importantpart of her life, And here's
here's something interestingMandeville is actually a
hospital that's named after thesame town that her mom actually
stayed in.

Speaker 1 (01:30:59):
So when she said her mom was in Mandeville, she's not
talking about a town, she'stalking about.

Speaker 3 (01:31:03):
What is a town?

Speaker 1 (01:31:04):
Yeah, but she's talking in the song about an
institution you know, And so Idon't boo who like JM.
But the song.

Speaker 3 (01:31:13):
I'm so Manly, but apparently my testosterone level
prevents me from being able tocreate tears.

Speaker 4 (01:31:20):
But this It's a great song.

Speaker 3 (01:31:24):
I told you that, that I was going to tell you my
favorite song.
It's either this or the nextone And it goes back and forth
and I can never.
I can never decide And both ofthem have the same effect on me.
But there was a time when I wasliving outside of Austin and I
was going through somedepression and I it was pretty
close to the same time thisalbum came out, but I can

(01:31:46):
remember it's you're tellingshe's doing the same thing.
You're telling the depressionYou think you got me.
Now Let's see how you do whenyou get to my town and I'm
surrounded by my friends and allmy old haunts.
You're going to, you're goingto buckle.
And she's saying the exact samething.
Let's see how these blues do inthe town that it's so wonderful

(01:32:10):
.

Speaker 4 (01:32:10):
It's so weird how this, this song, will take you
back to something.

Speaker 3 (01:32:14):
It takes me back to Austin.
At the same time, the soundcame.

Speaker 4 (01:32:18):
And that's the reason why I mean you described this
before.
It's like a bucket of coldwater being poured over my head.

Speaker 3 (01:32:24):
Just go ahead And you know and listen to it now It
makes me even sadder becausethat hometown I used to have is
gone, is completely erased.
I mean, Austin's not what itused to be And I can't tell.
I don't get sad anymore.
But if I did, I can't say, oh,let's see how you do when we get

(01:32:47):
to Austin.
It's not there anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:32:51):
So you got, you got to look for it.
There's still places.

Speaker 3 (01:32:53):
Well, you can.
Yeah, it's don't feel like itdid before, but she's such a
master with this song And I loveit when she's her in the
background, singers areproclaiming her brother knows
where the best bars are.
She's so defiant and so excitedto be back home.

(01:33:15):
I can see this song occurringto her all the way back home
where she's leaving some placewhere she's been unhappy.

Speaker 4 (01:33:23):
Is this one where she's going across the?

Speaker 3 (01:33:25):
Yeah, punch a train bridge.

Speaker 4 (01:33:26):
Yeah, when you go across that bridge, there's not
a lot else to do but think anddrive and hope you don't run out
of gas And you know that she,it's like a landmark she goes OK
, i'm here, 26 miles more and.

Speaker 3 (01:33:41):
I get on the other side of this.
It's my turf and you blues.
Yeah, you'll might as well finda comfortable place in this
swamp to sleep, because you'restaying here.
You can't come with me.

Speaker 1 (01:33:52):
Not where.
That's a fantastic song.

Speaker 4 (01:33:53):
This is a.
This is one of the.
I would put this in the top 20songs ever written.

Speaker 3 (01:33:58):
And this is also a song that I have a hard time
listening to.
once it Yeah.
One criticism I have is theending.
It seems abrupt and unfinishedat the end.

Speaker 4 (01:34:11):
Yeah, I'll agree with you And doesn't?

Speaker 1 (01:34:14):
it doesn't just sort of fade out?
It does, but it's the fiddle issort of playing and it fades
out, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:34:21):
I don't, i can't put my finger on why.
it seems abrupt and unfinishedTell you what it is There's?

Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
there's a song, a rush song, i think it's called
different strings.
I may be getting it wrong, butthere's a song on the album we
talked about Different waveswhere it fades out and it seems
abrupt because it seems likesomething interesting is about
to occur and you don't want thatto stop.

Speaker 2 (01:34:43):
You want to.
You want the song to continue.
That's probably so you can hearit.

Speaker 1 (01:34:46):
And I felt I oddly enough felt that way when I was
listening to the song recentlyand the end came up I thought
about that rush song and Ithought this is this you want.
you don't want this to fade outright now.

Speaker 3 (01:34:57):
No, right, right, It's, it's, yeah, that's, it's a
good point.
Yet I agree with that.

Speaker 1 (01:35:03):
Sorry to bring up rush.

Speaker 3 (01:35:04):
That's all right.
I'm so in love with that song.
I don't care if I'm doing it,you do a pound rush.

Speaker 4 (01:35:09):
What You can do a pound rush on the hashtag.

Speaker 3 (01:35:13):
Someone say Neil Young.

Speaker 1 (01:35:16):
She did love Neil Young.
There we go, we got it Allright, all right.
So Doug's possible otherfavorite song side of the road.

Speaker 2 (01:35:28):
I want to know the touch of my own stand against
the sun, against the wind.
I walked out in a field.
The grass was high.
I brushed against my legs.

Speaker 3 (01:35:52):
I just stood and looked out at the old man.
This is the song with the mostmanipulative D minor in the
entire world.
When she goes, when it drops,and she goes only for a minute
or two.
I'm undone by that minor chordand her voice and her voice

(01:36:14):
again, she jumps back right intoit.

Speaker 4 (01:36:20):
It's only like two beats that she goes that D minor
and then it just jumps back.

Speaker 1 (01:36:24):
This is one of her favorite songs.

Speaker 4 (01:36:26):
What should be?
It should be.

Speaker 3 (01:36:29):
This is a marvelous song.
The fiddle is.
I don't think it was played byhuman being.

Speaker 1 (01:36:37):
Does he sound that way when he plays with JJ Kale?
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:36:42):
Musically, it's the most interesting song too.

Speaker 3 (01:36:44):
And it's again.
It's such a girl song.

Speaker 4 (01:36:49):
It is.

Speaker 3 (01:36:51):
I just need time alone.

Speaker 4 (01:36:52):
I mean, that fiddle is just freaking heartbreaking.

Speaker 3 (01:36:57):
And the thing about she's looking at a ranch house
and she's coming up with thisidea of an old couple that lives
there and how they've beentogether for years.
When they go to bed at night,she pulls down her hair and
she's just going through thiswhole deal based on the fact
that there's just this ranchhouse there And well, she's

(01:37:21):
doing something.
People don't write songs likethis.
They don't write aboutambivalence, where I want you
and I don't want you, and I'mbeing honest about it and I'm
confused.
I want to be alone.

Speaker 4 (01:37:34):
And then it's like what else?
What else could I do?
What else?
The Big Red Sun song.

Speaker 1 (01:37:40):
This is one of the songs, though, that I can listen
to, and I hear the bands thatcame after this album.
I hear this song influencingother bands and people who
embrace this whole.
You know Americana sentimentgoing forward.
This song has that.

Speaker 3 (01:37:57):
It's like a foundational tune, if you will,
and I don't even know what Iwould.
I would not even categorize itas something, because it's too
confusing to categorize.
Well, it's definitely American,i mean you're not, you're.
Americana, but when she wasputting it out that that wasn't
a big deal.

Speaker 1 (01:38:12):
It wasn't, but that's my point.
So in the early nineties, whenall these other bands were like,
that was the it genre and allthe bands that signed, you can
hear this song and what theywere doing.
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:38:23):
And when this came out, everybody goes what do we
do with this?
What is this, What?
what track do we put?

Speaker 1 (01:38:28):
it on.
She makes it.
I just want to take a briefaside there.
She makes a big point aboutthat, a lot about her early
career.
I don't know nobody could likeshe's two countries, every one
of those bands that was thatdoing that at this time had that
same exact Every band.
I mean Jason the scorcher's youliked them, but did they get an
airplay?
Nobody listened to them on theradio.

(01:38:49):
They didn't get.

Speaker 4 (01:38:50):
I mean I do.
I thought about Jason and thescorcher's a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:38:54):
Yeah, same with the long riders green on red.

Speaker 3 (01:38:57):
It makes you wish for those radio stations we hear
about where they would have DeanMartin and then they would have
Bob.

Speaker 1 (01:39:05):
Dylan, or I mean they're all over the place.

Speaker 3 (01:39:07):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:39:08):
So anyway, it's a great song, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:39:11):
I don't know if I can go on.

Speaker 1 (01:39:12):
Really Well.
There's a lot of love, that's.
There's a price to pay, DougYep.

Speaker 2 (01:39:22):
And I believe it won't be easy to repair this
time, because it's my home andthere's a price you have to pay.

Speaker 4 (01:39:44):
This is the most country song on the album and I
wish they had country fight it alittle bit more.
I mean, her voice is achinglybeautiful, but I wish there was
like a pedal steel in there.
Somehow that was just.
It's like a Hank Williams song,it just like a Hank Williams

(01:40:05):
song.
It just should add some more.
You don't need the the tomscoming in when it does.
You just could have kept thesnare with a with a rim shot.

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
This is my favorite vocals on the album.
Yeah, i love, i dance this song.

Speaker 2 (01:40:21):
The vocals are great.

Speaker 1 (01:40:22):
I dance with my wife to the song.
I love this song is it's upthere with one of my favorite
songs on the album I'm a suckerfor waltz.
I love this song.

Speaker 3 (01:40:32):
I think it's position on this album is so important.
And it may just be me, but I'mdevastated.
I mean, I'm barely able tocontinue driving or walking or
whatever I'm doing.
And this song eases me out ofwhat I had in a playful fashion

(01:40:53):
And I appreciate it a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:40:55):
It's got that.
I mentioned this earlier, butthis song in particular has got
that Loretta Lynn sort ofattitude about it.
Hey, buddy, you broke my heart,but guess what?
You're the one that's going tosuffer.

Speaker 3 (01:41:05):
You're going to miss it, exactly, exactly.
That's why.
That's why it's so necessaryfor me after that other song and
her voice is it's remarkable onits voice.

Speaker 4 (01:41:18):
Everything is great except there's just should have
some difference.

Speaker 1 (01:41:21):
I think it's.
I think it's Daniel Perfect.
I wouldn't change anything.

Speaker 3 (01:41:25):
I'm fine with what they have on there, but I think
I'd be much less interested inthis song with someone else
singing it.
I think her voice does quite abit to help me enjoy this song.

Speaker 1 (01:41:34):
That's a good question.
I think you might be right,because the her vocal
performance is just, it's justand it's half the story.
Yeah, and that may be why itmakes sense not to have more
instrumentation on it, becauseit's just, it's the simple wall
speed with her and tearing it up.

Speaker 3 (01:41:55):
I just I'm the red one can do a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:41:58):
I see bear light bulbs around the concrete floor
every time I find a van dango.

Speaker 3 (01:42:07):
I hear this song and that's what I see, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:42:09):
No answer.
I agree with you, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:42:12):
Another wonderful number.

Speaker 1 (01:42:13):
Yeah, all right, and the last song on the album, a
cover, if you will.
I asked for water and what didyou do, guys?

Speaker 3 (01:42:24):
Got unleaded.

Speaker 1 (01:42:25):
You gave me gasoline.
Oh, gasoline, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:42:32):
Or.

Speaker 4 (01:42:55):
Get me Right.

Speaker 1 (01:42:57):
Justor Burnett wrote it, but I think you're right.

Speaker 4 (01:42:59):
I think it's a Hell in Love song Sounds like a Hell
in Love song.
I like the way she does thissong.
I think that theinstrumentation is right and
everything, but it doesn't needto be on the album.

Speaker 1 (01:43:12):
I don't know if I agree with that settlement, as
much as I think it doesn't needto end the album.

Speaker 3 (01:43:17):
I think its placement is very odd.
I think price to pay shouldhave been the end.

Speaker 1 (01:43:24):
It's an odd play.
It's almost like she's tryingto remind people.

Speaker 2 (01:43:29):
Like hey.

Speaker 1 (01:43:29):
I'm a blues person.

Speaker 3 (01:43:32):
Remember this.
There's no explanation.

Speaker 1 (01:43:37):
It's not a bad song.

Speaker 3 (01:43:38):
No, but I don't need it.
I don't need it on this album.

Speaker 1 (01:43:42):
Well, it stands out like a sore thumb.

Speaker 3 (01:43:44):
And I certainly don't need to end on that.
It's so inappropriate.
I agree with that The subjectmatter matches, but this is not
what she's for And the price topay.
It's like there was a bow onthe thing And so on, untied the

(01:44:06):
bow and shoved this into the boxafter it had been wrapped.
But I don't despise it.
I would go to the bathroom.
If I was at her show and shestarted singing this, I would go
to the bathroom.

Speaker 1 (01:44:18):
See, i would do that for the song that ends side two,
but I feel like women wouldbeat me up on the way to the
bathroom, so I'd have to sitthere and hold it.

Speaker 3 (01:44:28):
Well, if your wife was in prison, you wouldn't have
to wait.
She's not been in prison.

Speaker 1 (01:44:35):
Not for a while.

Speaker 4 (01:44:36):
She's on early release.

Speaker 3 (01:44:38):
Yeah that's good.
She should have passionatekisses, all right well.
so that's the record.
That is the record.

Speaker 1 (01:44:47):
It's interesting when this album came out in 88, it
didn't chart at all And then,when it was reissued in 2014, it
reached number 39.
Because people fell in lovewith Lucinda Williams at that
point They knew you know it'sfunny when I was playing this my
wife knows passionate kisses,but not because she heard it in
1988.

Speaker 3 (01:45:08):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:45:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:45:10):
Well, that's the.
Have y'all ever gone to see heror anything like that.

Speaker 1 (01:45:13):
Well, we've been on a couple of those cruises where
she was there She's played, nowshe's.
They've been both of them, ithink, or maybe the first one
were they both post-stroke.
They might have both beenpost-stroke.

Speaker 3 (01:45:24):
So she had a stroke in 2020?

Speaker 4 (01:45:26):
Yeah, and I think that's right after this album
got released.

Speaker 3 (01:45:31):
I used to see her a lot in Austin And it was always
with other people and thingslike that And Why is that a?

Speaker 4 (01:45:39):
cracked band You know interesting timing.

Speaker 1 (01:45:42):
CBS This Morning ran a story on her on Sunday.

Speaker 4 (01:45:45):
I know I watched that .

Speaker 1 (01:45:46):
Which was interesting that we were doing this album,
but she talks about how she'sgotten significantly better.
Her only problem is she can'tplay the guitar right now
because of it.
Yeah, you know it's.
I mean, it's sad, but I'm gladshe's continuing on, and I've
heard her perform a couple oftimes, and while it's not 100%,
it's still good.
It is interesting, though, thatafter this album, she developed

(01:46:09):
that kind of weird reputationof being a control freak and
being She re-recorded Car Wheelson a gravel road Three times.

Speaker 4 (01:46:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:46:19):
So she had a falling out.

Speaker 1 (01:46:20):
So the first time she did it was with Gurf Morlicks
and she had a falling out withthem.
They haven't spoken since thenIs that right, Yeah, he said.
I read an interview in theAustin American Statesman.
He said you know, I juststarted looking at my life and
realized, unfortunately, I wouldjust be happier if I wasn't
dealing with her.
Then the second time sherecorded it was with Steve Earl

(01:46:41):
and he said it was one of theworst experiences of his entire
life, and usually he's the worstexperience in anyone's life.
And then the third time was RoyBitten.
No, that's who produced it.
The one that was released wasRoy Bitten.
There's a really interestingarticle in the New York Times
that was done at around the timethat Roy Bitten was recording

(01:47:03):
it.
And Lucinda Williams she'stalking about a particular song
and Charlie Sexton's on an albumand she's like, okay, can we
get Charlie Sexton to do this?
and Roy Bitten's like the songdoesn't really need that.
She's like, no, no, let's do it.
And then she's like, what aboutthe dobro?
Can we get the dobro?
Can you capo up the dobro?
She's like asking for all thisweird stuff.
I mean, she sounds justneurotic And I think and again,

(01:47:27):
i'm not diagnosed or anything,but I think she's got a little
bit of like OCD or something andit's difficult for her.
She just starts to think thatnothing is perfect.
And she says now that she goesback and listens to this album
we talked about tonight and shehears all the imperfections of
it and she can't listen to itbecause that, which I think, is
kind of sad, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:47:47):
Well, they're next to her album after this, which has
one of my favorite sweet oldworld.
Well, that's a connection.

Speaker 3 (01:47:57):
That was on the album we did by Amy Lou Harris.
Yeah, i kept trying to say AmyLou Harris and I kept saying
this to Williams, but Amy LouHarris covered that song.

Speaker 1 (01:48:10):
I will say I don't know, It's hard to find.
There's two or three clips, butright after this album she was
on Austin City Limits.
It's good, It's good, But youcan't like.
There's maybe only three songsfrom that performance that I've
been able to see.
But it's really good.

Speaker 3 (01:48:25):
But her hair is brown .

Speaker 1 (01:48:26):
No, no, no, that's a later one, That's later.

Speaker 2 (01:48:28):
This is this?
That's when she did it 89 or 90.

Speaker 1 (01:48:32):
And she's.
Yeah, she was on season 15 andI think she's been on three
times, maybe three or four times, But as she's playing this
album, she sounds fantastic, Theband sounds great.
Everything about it soundsreally really good.

Speaker 4 (01:48:44):
Well, she was on that short live PBS show called
Sessions at West 57.
And she did a lot of the songsfrom Was it around this time.
This is 90.
This is 99.
But she had just like thisamazing band behind her And this
is where I, we were talkingabout this earlier she just

(01:49:06):
started becoming more and moreself-conscious.
The things that she was she waswriting were just stuff that I
just nothing hit me.
There was nothing that wasgoing like.
some of the instrumentation wasinteresting, but there was just
nothing that was.

Speaker 1 (01:49:20):
What seems to me that it's really vital for her to
not write with anyself-awareness whatsoever just
to And not again, not to put toomuch emphasis on somebody when
we're talking about the mainartists here.
But I wonder how much GERFMorlick's leaving the band like
changed that dynamic.
Yeah, i mean you got.

Speaker 4 (01:49:40):
It's like the same thing with, you know, robert
Plant being untethered fromJimmy Page.

Speaker 2 (01:49:46):
I mean Jimmy.

Speaker 4 (01:49:47):
Page.
Robert Plant definitely focusedJimmy Page on.
I mean, jimmy Page hasn't donecrap since, anyway, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:49:57):
Well, good album guys .
This is the time when we ratethe album.
So I'm going to ask you guysfor two ratings.
One is your critical rating,which is just based on your sort
of factual understanding of thealbum, critics understanding of
the album.
The second one will be yourpersonal rating, ie, regardless

(01:50:20):
of all that stuff, how oftenwill you listen to it?
What do you give it from thatpoint?
So I'm going to go to you, jan,first, since you didn't pick it
.

Speaker 4 (01:50:26):
I'm going to go with my cold hearted critics rating
first.
I'm going to give it a fourzero, and that might be a little
bit surprising.
I'm not sure this is the.
I don't know what I was goingto say.
it's not the best introductionto Lucinda Williams, but that's
not right.
This is a very goodintroduction to Lucinda Williams
as a songwriter And as a.

(01:50:46):
you know, the musicianship isreally good on this.
I think this album suffers alittle bit from production.
I think the songs sound alittle too homogenous.
It's like the ballads are doneone way and the up tempo songs

(01:51:08):
are done another way.
I wish there was a little bitmore.
as a critic, i wish they were alittle bit more, a little bit
different than the production.
There's like no real sheen toit.
My personal rating it's goingto be really nitpicky.
I have to say that the theLucinda Williams kind of fell
off my radar for a while.

(01:51:28):
for a long time followed heruntil Car Wheels on a gravel
road And then I just went.
why is everybody so enamoredwith her now, like she's done so
many?
she's done two albums that aremuch better than this one, so it
was nice to come back andlisten to this album, i'm really
starting to think differentlyabout her And I think this is a

(01:51:49):
great.
if you're really intosongwriting, like sparse
production, this is a greatalbum to listen to.
It's much better than Iremember it being gaining an
appreciation for, like I as asongwriter that I didn't have
before.
So personally, i'm giving it afour or five.

Speaker 1 (01:52:10):
Well, just real quick to comment on that, considering
two people made top 20 singlesoff of songs on this album I
think songwriter is.
Yeah, that's that was what she'sdoing around with a notebook.
Okay, thanks, jam, do mine next, And then we'll go with Doug's
as he picked the album.
I have grown up with a biastowards female artists that I

(01:52:33):
regret having, because I'vebecause this podcast, i've
realized I've missed out on alot of stuff.
It wasn't listening to thisalbum that made me realize that
I'd missed out on listening.
Lucinda, i think I told youguys I was listening to
something, another album we weredoing and I was on Amazon and
it started streaming some othersongs And the song came up by
female artists.
So, oh, what is this?
And I looked at LucindaWilliams and was like this is a

(01:52:55):
great song.
And then a couple of songs,same thing.
It was her again And I startedthinking, boy, if I really sort
of not done justice to thisperson.
That being said, i loved this.
I loved listening to this album.
This album really surprised meat how much I enjoyed it, and I
enjoyed it a lot.
So I'm going to give my personalrating first.

(01:53:15):
I'm going to give it a four,three.
I will listen to this albumagain.
I'm going to have a tough timenot listening to certain songs
when I walk out the door here.
But, yeah, great.
And then critics.
I think it's there's songs onhere that I think are not well

(01:53:35):
placed.
We talked about the last songon the album, the blues cover,
not being a song that really iswell placed.
That being said, and I thinksome of the ballads fall a
little flat, this is I thinkthis was a monumental album for
what it stood for.
It's an album that's announcedto everybody hey, i'm Lucinda

(01:53:57):
Williams and what I'm doingmatters not to sound too over,
whatever.
So because of that, i'm goingto give it a four, five, doug.

Speaker 3 (01:54:07):
All right, My critics .
critics thing is hard because Idon't know how to measure how
much this changed everythingafter it came out.
I'm not in a position where Ican know that.

Speaker 1 (01:54:18):
That's because you didn't listen to music after
1988.

Speaker 3 (01:54:22):
No, it's, I just don't have the.
yeah, that's part of it, Anyway.
so, critics, I give it a four.
five My personal rating, whichis highly subjective, which is
why we do that, so we can freeourselves for our critics rating
.
I love the cover of this albumwhere it looks like she's trying
to get something off her jacket.

(01:54:43):
It makes no sense to choosethis photograph, but it
represents her so perfectly asthis unselfconscious person
Making her way through the worldand having a lot of bad, bad
instances as she makes her way.
Making the way through the worldtoday takes everything you got,
I know, And you need a placelike the Vinegar and Saloon

(01:55:06):
where everybody knows your name.
But I'm a sucker for this album.
I give it a four eight for mypersonal rating, and the reason
it's not higher is becausethere's a couple of songs on
here that bring it down a littlebit in my estimation.
But if if you haven't heardthis album, you are ripping
yourself off if you don't go inand look it up.

(01:55:28):
The Cinder Williams by theCinder Williams.
Like everybody, her third albumis named after herself.
All right, don't do that veryoften.
Name the third album you putout after yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:55:43):
No, you know, it's funny, A couple of bands that I
like the D-Railers and BR549,both of them had their name and
their title, Like one of themwas here come to D-Railers and
the other one is I think this isBR549 after their fourth or
fifth album It was strange Theygot a major label deal in that
set.
Their debut on the major labelwas that.

Speaker 3 (01:56:02):
Anyway, okay, Oh yeah , Thanks, Doug.

Speaker 1 (01:56:05):
Oh yeah, that seems so perfunctory.

Speaker 3 (01:56:11):
Thanks, Doug, Oh yeah .

Speaker 2 (01:56:13):
No no no.

Speaker 1 (01:56:14):
Doug, thanks for that .
It was a good pick.
I appreciate it.
I learned something aboutmyself.

Speaker 4 (01:56:20):
So we've come to the point of the podcast where you
like to cater to our youngerlisteners, and for that we go to
our youngest member of This IsVinyl Time By a matter of months
, tony Slagle, who's got his earto the ground, knowing what the
kids are listening to.
So, tony, do you have arecommendation for us today?

Speaker 1 (01:56:41):
I have a fantastic recommendation.
I was holding this off formaybe another time, but I think
this is perfect because the leadsinger of this band also has a
reputation for being a littledifficult, a little hard-headed
a little unpleasant sometimesmuch as Lucinda Williams has
developed that I am going torecommend the songs of.

(01:57:01):
I'm sorry, the name of the albumis The Day of Doug.
it's the songs of Doug's song.
It's the Sunvolt album that wasjust released.
It's not an album we wouldlikely do, because it's a
tribute album.
We don't normally do tributealbums, but this very well may
be the best thing this band hasdone since their debut.
This album is amazing, justfantastic.

(01:57:24):
I'm going to play you.
Sometimes you've got to stopchasing rainbows.

(01:57:47):
Okay, i want to play one moresong.
I want to play Float Away.
So I don't know if that's toorock and roll for country or too

(01:58:20):
country for rock and roll, butthat album is literally one of
the best things I've bought inyears.
It's fantastic.
Day of Doug by Sunvolt.
Highly, highly, highly, highlyrecommended.

Speaker 3 (01:58:32):
Great.

Speaker 1 (01:58:33):
Who's Doug Song?
Who's Doug Song?
Well, he was in the Sir DouglasQuintet.
He was in the Texas Tornados.
He is a San Antonio Texassongwriter of the highest degree
who is very respectedthroughout the state.

Speaker 4 (01:58:54):
A child prodigy on violin and pedal steel.
He's the soul of Texas music Hepassed away about 20 years ago
or so.

Speaker 3 (01:59:04):
Yeah, and he looked the same the whole time he was
alive.
I know.

Speaker 4 (01:59:10):
Well, thank you for that recommendation, tony.
I want to remind all our loyallisteners that we have a contest
going on right now where we aretrying to come up with a new
tagline for our podcast.
Our old tagline was short talksabout long players, but we just
did another podcast where Ithink we are twice as long as

(01:59:32):
the album that we're talkingabout.
So if you could please send usyour submission for a new
tagline and we choose your newtagline, we will give you a
trucker's hat or a t-shirt withthe new This Is Vinyl Tap
tagline on it.
You can wear it with pride Withanother episode of This Is

(01:59:54):
Vinyl Tap, the podcast thatalways goes to 11.
You can also reach us viaTwitter at Tapping Vinyl, or you
can visit our Facebook grouppage if you're so inclined And
if you're old school, like I am,you can email us at
tappingvinylgmailcom, but, ofcourse, for the ultimate This Is

(02:00:14):
Vinyl Tap experience, pleasevisit our website.
There you'll find links to ourpast episodes and pictures and
videos about things we'vementioned on the episode Next
week, we'll be looking at analbum by a Canadian group that
doesn't necessarily soundCanadian Blue Rodeo, and their

(02:00:36):
album Five Days in July For ourhost Doug Cooper, our co-host
Tony Slagle and me, your humbleproducer, jonathan JM Rowe.

(02:00:59):
This Is Vinyl Tap.
We're all.
The podcast go to 11.
And we just want to see you sobad.

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SE 3, EP 20: Lucinda Williams - Lucinda Williams

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}SE 3, EP 20: Lucinda Williams - Lucinda Williams