This vs. That
A podcast where we have conversations that explore what we think and why we think it.
Episodes
On this episode of This vs. That, we explore the relationship between professional counseling and everyday counseling with Dr. Kristin Kellen, associate professor of biblical counseling at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. We discuss how these two forms of counseling exist on a spectrum, examining the differences in formality, reciprocity, and structure.
We consider the biblical foundation for everyday counseling through th...
On this episode of This vs. That, we welcome back Yana Jenay Conner to explore the difficult but essential work of forgiveness in close friendships. We discuss why forgiveness matters so deeply in our faith and why it's such hard work when friends wound us.
We examine what makes God's way of forgiveness different from our culture's approach, moving beyond self-centered freedom to an other-centered response that reflects ...
On this episode of This vs. That, we sit down with Ronnie Martin, pastor and Director of Leader Care and Renewal for the Harbor Network, to explore unhurried ministry versus anxious ministry.
We dig into why so many ministry leaders find themselves overextended and running ragged. Ronnie shares insights from his book "The Unhurried Pastor," co-authored with Brian Croft, which draws on Eugene Peterson's work to address ...
On this episode of This vs. That, we sit down with Darby Strickland, faculty member and counselor at CCEF, to discuss understanding trauma versus simplistic responses to trauma. We explore what trauma really is and how it impacts people—disrupting their sense of self, safety, and ability to connect with others and the Lord.
Darby helps us recognize common simplistic responses that can unintentionally harm trauma survivors, like sugg...
On this episode of This vs. That, we sit down with Brad Hambrick, pastor of counseling at the Summit Church in Durham, North Carolina, to discuss one of the most painful experiences a marriage can face: betrayal.
We explore the tension between idealized expectations of quick healing and the reality that recovery requires an intentional, patient process. Brad shares why "rarely is the first story, the whole story" and how i...
On this episode of This vs. That, we sit down with Trevin Wax and Thomas West to explore their new book, The Gospel Way Catechism: 50 Truths that Take On the World. We discuss how catechisms serve as powerful tools for spiritual formation and discipleship in an ever-changing culture.
Trevin and Thomas share the inspiration behind their work, drawing from the influence of Lesslie Newbigin and Tim Keller's concept of counter catechesi...
On this episode of This vs. That, we explore one of the most important yet often misunderstood aspects of Christian marriage: sex. We sit down with Scott Mehl, pastor of Cornerstone Church of West LA and author of Redeeming Sex and Marriage, to discuss the difference between self-centered sex and God-centered sex.
We tackle questions like: What is God's design for sex and marriage? Why does physical intimacy get complicated even...
On this episode of This vs. That, we welcome Rebekah Hannah, not as our usual co-host, but as a special guest to discuss her leadership journey and the upcoming Women in Leadership cohort offered by Anchored Virtual starting in September. We explore how this cohort creates a space for women serving in various leadership roles to come together, find encouragement, and receive valuable teaching.
Becca shares her diverse leadership rol...
On this episode of This vs. That, we talk with Dr. Nate Brooks about navigating the tension between honesty and cynicism when dealing with chronic illness. We discuss how the church often struggles to address the realities of chronic pain in authentic ways, sometimes offering shallow platitudes rather than genuine understanding. Dr. Brooks, an associate professor at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and founder of Courage C...
On this episode of This vs. That, we talk with Harrison Scott Key, author of the incredibly popular book "How To Stay Married" as well as "Congratulations, Who Are You Again?" and "The World's Largest Man" (winner of the Thurber Prize for American Humor).
We explore the theme of fairytale versus real marriage through Harrison's raw, honest, and often humorous account of marital betrayal. Harris...
On this episode of This vs. That, we explore the profound topic of rejection and how we respond to it with our special guest Tabitha Panariso. We dive into the contrast between hiding and being held when facing rejection in our lives. Tabitha, a licensed professional counselor, writer, and speaker, shares her personal journey with rejection and how these experiences shaped her identity.
We discuss why rejection leaves us feeling so ...
On this episode of This vs. That, we explore the relationship between the church and outside counseling resources. Our guest, Garrett Higbee, shares his extensive experience as founder of 12 Stones and president of Soul Care Consulting International.
We discuss the challenges churches face when navigating the counseling world, from concerns about liability to questions about theological alignment. Garrett offers insights on how cou...
On this episode of This vs. That, we explore the topic of nourished souls vs. starved souls with guest Kristen Wetherell, author of "Help for the Hungry Soul."
We discuss why Christians sometimes lose their appetite for God's Word and how to recognize the signs of spiritual malnourishment. Kristen shares personal insights about her own struggles with treating Bible reading as a checklist rather than an encounter with ...
On this episode of This vs. That, we explore the tension between accepting limitations and neglecting responsibility with Kelly Kapic, Professor of Theological Studies at Covenant College. Kelly, author of "Your Only Human" and the upcoming devotional "You Were Never Meant To Do It All," shares his personal struggles with productivity culture and the constant pressure to do more.
We discuss how human dependency—o...
On this episode of This vs. That, we welcome Kyle Worley, founder and lead pastor of Mosaic Church in Richardson, Texas. We explore the profound concept of our identity in Christ and what it means to be adopted as children of God. Kyle unpacks how our relationship with God as Father transcends mere acquittal from a holy judge—it's an invitation into a family where we are welcomed and delighted in despite our unworthiness. We di...
On this episode of This vs. That, we explore the critical distinction between pastoral care and counseling with Dr. Jeremy Pierre. We dive into how these two forms of care overlap and where they differ, examining the unique role each plays in the spiritual formation of believers.
Drawing from his 22 years of experience as both a pastor and professor, Dr. Pierre helps us understand how counseling serves as a specific tool within the...
On this episode of This vs. That, we explore the concept of whole body theology and how it differs from the body positivity movement with bestselling author Lisa Whittle. We discuss her forthcoming book Body and Soul, which takes a biblical look at how God created us to be whole persons - body and soul.
We examine why simply having good feelings about our bodies isn't enough, and how understanding Christ's incarnation and &...
On this episode of This vs. That, we sit down with Eric Schumacher to explore the profound concept of weakness in Christian life. We discuss how recognizing our limitations and dependence on God's grace can lead to greater freedom and spiritual growth.
Eric shares personal insights from his latest book, addressing the paradox of working diligently while maintaining complete reliance on God's strength.
We examine how understa...
On this episode of This vs. That, we tackle the complex balance between church and family priorities in ministry life. We welcome special guests Jenna Allen and Stephanie Gilbert from Pastors' Wives Tell All who share raw, honest perspectives about navigating the demands of church leadership while protecting family wellbeing. Through candid conversation, we explore how to set healthy boundaries, support children in ministry fam...
On this episode of This vs. That, we explore how to effectively help those suffering from depression without unintentionally causing more harm. Our guest Kathryn Butler, a former trauma surgeon turned writer, shares her unique perspective from both sides of depression - as a medical professional and as someone who has experienced it personally.
We discuss the complexities of depression, including its various causes and manifestation...
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