Back to Basics: Bodega Baddie and Pocket Altars

In this episode, Kendra and Kelli are deep in the group chat, unpacking what it means to get free—spiritually, politically, and personally. From unlearning rapture theology to building a pocket altar with tips from both Catholic and Wiccan Reddit communities (yes, that Reddit), this conversation is a love letter to the Black women doing the work to define divinity on their own terms in a season that is calling for our sacred no.

They talk about the beauty of sister circles, the challenge of staying connected to family when life is full, and the intentionality it takes to nurture what matters. The convo flows from spiritual transitions and progressive faith spaces to the soft rebellion of choosing joy, rest, and pleasure without apology.

Come for the pop culture—Cardi B’s Bronx brilliance, the return of Mariah Carey’s curls—and stay for the spiritual reckoning. 

Related Links

1. "I Surrender All" -  referenced by Kelli King-Jackson  
2. How to Make New Friends as an Adult - referenced by Kelli King-Jackson
3. Hit Like a Girl Podcast - referenced by Kendra Ross
4. Awakenings - referenced by Kelli King-Jackson
5. NorthStar Church of the Arts (Durham, NC) - referenced by Kendra Ross
6. Left Behind – Film Series (re: Rapture) - referenced by Kendra Ross
7. Rapture IG Reel by Rev. Lizzie - referenced by Kelli King-Jackson
8. Heather McGhee – referenced by Kendra Ross
9. The Sum of Us (book) - referenced by Kendra Ross
10. "I Know A Man" - Mentioned by Kendra Ross
11. Pocket Altars - referenced by Kelli King-Jackson
12. The Realist Oracle Deck - referenced by Kendra Ross
13. Free - referenced by Kendra Ross

Dr. Kendra Janelle Ross is a tour de force in the worlds of music, education, community engagement, and technology, blending her passions to create inclusive spaces, equitable communities, and innovative cultural ecosystems. Dr. Ross's creative prowess culminated in her upcoming project, This Womanist’s Work, highlighting her commitment to amplifying female voices in the industry. Le

Hit our group chat to ask us a question or send us feedback on what you're enjoying about the show!

Kelli King-Jackson is a certified professional coach to Black women leading in white spaces. In addition to coaching, she works with organizations truly committed to justice for Black women by providing philanthropic advising, facilitation, and speaking services. Learn more about Kelli's work here: https://www.iamkelli.com/

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
The views shared in this episode represent Kelly and
Kendra, not our mama, partner,church, job, or sponsor.
Oh shoot, what?
I left my water in the kitchen.
I'll be right back.
Okay.

(00:25):
No, I didn't.
I left it on my bookshelf.
Child, just oh, it was on mybookshelf crashed away.
Um, so yeah, I stopped atMarshall's because we're redoing
the bedroom, and there are theselike woven uh framed pictures
I've been looking at, and I waslike, you know what, I'm gonna

(00:46):
go ahead and get them because Idon't really want anything
really bright.
Like, you know, I like brightart, but that's not really for
the bedroom.
So I went ahead and got thosebecause we're gonna finish,
hopefully, finish this wholeproject this weekend.
Because my house and my roomhave been a mess for three
weeks.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00):
Oh, while you've been getting it all built out.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
Yeah, like I it's come it's a completely new room,
new bed, new dresser, neweverything.

(01:30):
Where are we where we where arewe going with this?
Hey, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:33):
Let's get this party started.
Um, first of all, thank you toeveryone who has been listening
to season two of the pod.

SPEAKER_01 (01:44):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (01:44):
Appreciate you.
We hope that you will continueto listen, like, subscribe, all
the things um in your favoritepodcast at drop an offering.
Drop an offering, yes.
Um, we we are trying not to moveto a subscriber-based platform,
but the coins are coining.

(02:06):
So maybe we appreciate the loveofferings and the likes and the
subscribes also help with ouranalytics to hopefully bring in
some resources.
So we're letting you know.
Um, we're thinking about whatthat means for season three.
So wanted to say that.

(02:26):
Um so thank you, thank you.
What else do we want to say tothe listeners?

SPEAKER_01 (02:35):
We appreciate what you've listened to so far, but
just to reiterate, please goback and and check out what you
missed.
We had a lot of greatconversations, a lot of
evergreen conversations too.
Some of them are super topicaland you know, current or fairy,
but most of them are, you know,continue to be for such a time
as this.
And so please go back and listenand let us know what you think

(02:58):
and drop us a note and on oursocials um and join the
conversation because sometimeswe get comments, especially like
in our IG um posts, and thatmight be something we can bring
in the pod to the next episode.
So please feel free to engagewith us.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (03:14):
And if you have text us something amazing about the
podcast, it would be great ifyou would put it on our socials.
Um, you know, we are tell theworld.
We are in a in a fight with uhbrother Mark, but uh we will
continue to put the content outand we will be doing more
content, so stay tuned for that.

(03:36):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
And for the people, there are certain people who
prefer certain platforms.
So for instance, right now,YouTube is audio only, but
YouTube is there.
Yeah.
So if that's your jam, go toYouTube.
If if if your jam is Spotify,there we're there.
I mean, you know, we would loveto get to the point where it's a
self-controlled platform thaty'all can come to and we don't
have to deal with all thethings, but right now, this is

(03:58):
how we get it.
So whatever works for you, yeah,you know, go there.

SPEAKER_02 (04:01):
Yep.
And we want to hear what youthink about the content.
So this year, you know, we'vebeen bringing in some folks
about who we feel can reallybring some expertise into the
conversation around womanism.
And, you know, that may not beyour jam.
So we we definitely want to hearfrom the listeners um what
you're thinking about theconversations, what are the

(04:24):
conversations bringing up foryou as you think about where you
are in your grappling withwhat's happening in pop culture,
what's happening in the world,what's happening in your sister
circle.
So, yeah, let us know.

SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
Indeed.

SPEAKER_02 (04:39):
Awesome.
Indeed.
So speaking of sister circles,um, let's let's get into it a
little bit right now.
Um it's a pretty dark time forblack women right now.
Was it 300,000 layoffs?

SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
Yes, 300,000 layoffs.
And and and though it stillfeels like a number or a
statistic, you know, it's verypalpable for me.
You know, a lot of times youthings happen in history and
you're there for it, and youwatch it from afar and it feels
like, oh, this thing ishappening, but like I'm learning
about it from the news.
But for me, it's been far morepalpable.
It's in the group chat.

(05:17):
You know, I know people umwithin my circles, colleagues,
uh, associates who are, youknow, wrestling with this, and
these are very accomplishedpeople.
I mean, people from allbackgrounds, right?
Of all different levels anddifferent career uh career
trajectories, but people whohave been used to, despite all
the um the adversity, have beenwinning, you know, they've been

(05:39):
on the winning team and they'restruggling right now.

SPEAKER_02 (05:41):
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I mean, I have somecolleagues who've been laid off.
I have some colleagues, clientswho've been laid off.
I also have some colleagueswho've been looking, and um
actually one was texting with methe other day, and her resume
was one of 900 for one position.
So when you think about just notjust new people on the market,

(06:06):
but people who've been on themarket because industries are
changing, they haven't beenmaking a lot of big hires while
they're going through theirtransition.
So that means more and morepeople are in the pipeline.
So just sending a lot of love tothe black women um and in your
sister circles who may be goingthrough that right now.

SPEAKER_01 (06:25):
Absolutely.
And this is why more than ever,as I get older, I have never
been like a big network-y typeperson, even though I've always
worked in careers where that waskind of like par for the course.
Um, but like as somebody whoworks in a corporate job where a
lot of people I get a lot, a lotof reach out on LinkedIn and

(06:45):
personal people who I may havemet in passing or a cousin of a
friend, to the point where it'slike I I've actually had to stop
responding to most of thembecause I just can't, it's the
sheer volume of it, is just nottenable for me.
But why it's really important tolike build networks
authentically throughout, evenwhen you don't need them, when
you think you don't need them,because it's sometimes strange
people who like I barely havesaid hello to are like now

(07:07):
reaching out.
And for some sometimes, ifthey're qualified and I feel
like they might be good for therole, I'll try to push it
through.
But just the reality is thatlike when they say it's who you
know and networks, at times likethis, it really is.
Because when they're trying toparse to those 900 uh resumes,
take it from someone who workson a people team, the first

(07:28):
thing you're gonna say is, hey,if anybody has any referrals,
let us know.
And they're gonna look at thosereferrals.
Doesn't mean they're not lookingat everybody else, doesn't mean
that people are not coming outof that pool.
But you know, building networksis not for not, it's not about
being fake, but you know, it'sit's really about building an
ecosystem that's gonna undergirdall that you're trying to do in
life throughout the rest of yourlife.

(07:49):
It doesn't mean it's notinauthentic, yeah, it's just
part, it's part of the work.
Yeah.
So the work is happening evenwhen you think you don't need
it, and we can't get cushyuncomfortable no matter who we
are.
So this just reinforces that.

SPEAKER_02 (07:58):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because I, you
know, most of my clients areblack women, and I know we
struggle with this idea like wedon't want to be fake.
And learning how to network isreally trying to find what are
the things we have in common,right?
Whether that's personally orprofessionally, that allow us to
have authenticrelationship-building

(08:20):
opportunities.
And I when black women can thinkabout it from that perspective,
it definitely makes it moreeaseful, even if we're I'm an
introvert.
I hate going to networkingevents or places where it's
gonna be a lot of people that Idon't know their energy, I don't
know, quite frankly, in thismoment, I don't know their

(08:42):
political affiliation, I don'tknow who they know, right?
So I'm I'm walking intosomething that I don't have
enough information to feelcomfortable.
And my coach's wish for me whenwe first started working
together was that at anetworking event, I wouldn't be
standing in a corner because ifI don't know someone in that

(09:03):
room, that's likely what I'mdoing.
And I have learned how tonetwork as an introvert.
I've learned how to walk up topeople and be like, oh, hey, I
love your shoes because I reallydo, or whatever.
It doesn't have to be whichwhere do you work?

SPEAKER_01 (09:20):
Right.
So it's not about what you needin the moment, like you're like
trying to get something fromsomebody.
Like, for instance, I joinedbriefly, I was a member of the
of Chief, the professionalwomen's organization, and we had
like a local chief chapter inPittsburgh, and the first woman
I've ever met in person from ourlocal chapter, she just

(09:41):
authentically good at it, awhite woman, authentically good
at networking.
And if she sees, if she meets awoman who's professional, she's
bringing them into the fold.
And she does it so effortless,effortlessly.
And so what she does is shecreates these other smaller
moments.
Like she had us go out to thesuburbs to like a pasta making
class, and we made fresh pasta.
So things that like, okay, it'seight women with two bottles of

(10:03):
wine, as opposed to alwayshaving to be like if it's a big
room with 300 people andeverybody's talking loud, like
sometimes I get overstimulated.
But she creates these momentsand I've watched her do it.
And so I've I've you know grownreally you know fond of that
that way of moving.
And I've met so other so manyother cool women from the
things, the the things she'scultivated of all backgrounds,

(10:24):
and it feels very authentic.
But then when there's been aposition open and one of those
women have called me and said,Hey, my husband's looking for
this, I'm more likely becausewe've built a rapport and and it
was it was not intended for thatpurpose.
But it's just you know and so Iso I really have been big on
encouraging younger, youngerwomen in particular, older women
too.
But when people come in foradvice, I'm like, you gotta

(10:47):
figure out what works to yourpoint, Kelly, what works for
you.
It doesn't have to beeverybody's not gonna go into a
room and start talking toeverybody, but like, you know,
find what works for you.
I've I've noticed another womanhere in Pittsburgh has started a
um a club for black women tolearn, but not just black women,
but primarily black women tolearn how to play golf.
And at first I was like, yeah,no, I'm not trying to do that.

(11:08):
You know, that's like old boynetwork.
But first of all, they're havingfun.
But also it is it it helpscultivate a skill, and then it's
more like they go to the golfcourse, they see colleagues,
they see, and now it's a wholething.
And so I'm really proud of thework that she's able to do.
Um, I think it's called Hit Likea Girl or something like that.
Um, so shout out, um, shout outto them for that.

(11:31):
Yeah.
Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 (11:32):
It's interesting.
Um, I know a lot of black womenfollow Dr.
Raquel Martin on Instagram.
And she had a post the other daytalking about everyone's always
like saying, Oh, you need tomake new friends, and how we
oversimplify what thatexperience like is for people.

(11:53):
Um, and so we're gonna put it inthe show notes because I thought
it was a really interestingperspective for people who don't
have a sister circle right now.
Like you we believe you cancreate a circle sister circle.
We want every black woman tohave that.
Um, so if this is a helpfulvideo, definitely let us know.
Um, and if you don't have asister circle, maybe some of the

(12:15):
things she puts in that videowill help you to begin to
cultivate one for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 (12:21):
So yeah.
I was gonna say I found uh it isindeed hit like a girl.
Um, shout out to Juanita, and sowe will put that in the show
notes for folks if they'reinterested.
It even though it's Pittsburghbased, um, I'm sure that she
shares resources.

SPEAKER_02 (12:38):
Awesome.
Yeah, I love that.
Anything else on the sistercircles?

SPEAKER_01 (12:43):
I mean, I think we talked, we we went to Sister
Circle to talk about obviouslywhat's happening with black
women in the workforce, but Ithink a lot more and more like
big picture, I know we alwaystalk about on this pod about the
group chat, right?
Um, but like those group chatshave become more important.
But I I find that a lot of usbecause we're so busy in the

(13:05):
muck and mire of what's goingon, have kind of withdrawn a
little bit from the group chatbecause we're just trying to get
by.

SPEAKER_03 (13:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (13:10):
Um, and so I'm I'm trying to uh maybe make a
declaration for myself andhopefully encourage other people
that those communities withother black women are gonna be
what will help to sustain us inaddition to our own creativity,
in addition to theself-sustaining things we need
to do every day.
Yeah.
But like if if if the group chatgot us through the pandemic,
yeah, um, and so we need wecan't abandon those those

(13:34):
practices as tough as it is.
I know life is life, life belife in.
But we gotta, even if we say,you know what, on Fridays, I'm
checking the WhatsApp to see.
Yeah, we're gonna be.
Or on Fridays, I'm checking thetext because life be life be
passed us by.
For instance, we one of my goodfriends, I have not spoken to
her in a couple of weeks.
Okay.
And her birthday is on onMonday.

(13:55):
Okay.
And if I got to go chase herdown, get on the the the the the
train to go chase her down, Iwill.
Okay.
It's been a it's been some time.
You know who you are.
You know who you are, friend.

SPEAKER_02 (14:06):
That's okay.
Kendra had to snatch me too,because hey, I I I too have been
snatched.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
So I I get it.

SPEAKER_02 (14:14):
I woke up and I had a hundred text messages, and I'm
because I I be working and I'm Ihave my phone on Do Not Disturb,
and I'm like, oh, I'll get tothat later.
Oh, I'll get to that later.
Because I don't have messagescome to my my watch nor my
computer.
My messages only come to myphone.
And so I just I'd be so behind.
Yesterday I was catching up in aWhatsApp with our college

(14:36):
friends from from months ago.

SPEAKER_01 (14:39):
Talk about happy anniversary.
The anniversary is in August.

SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
So I uh I I don't know like how much of it is like
just over and I I don't feelover with, so I don't I don't
want to adapt to other people'swords.
But just like this this season,even in my business, just feel
so hectic.
Yeah, and you know, I have timelimits, so I'm not on Instagram
all day.
I'm not I don't like Facebook,so I try not to be on there set

(15:07):
to post so my mama can see whereI am.
Um, but you know, just gettingconsumed in other things.
And so how do we pull ourselvesout?
Just like you know, I don'tthink it's any better than doom
scrolling, right?
Um, we all need breaks, we allneed points of connection, and
how do we set someintentionality?
So um I had uh I had set a goallast quarter um to check in with

(15:32):
my mom once a week, right?
I haven't lived at home since Iwas 16.
So me and my mom can go for asecond and not necessarily talk
to each other, not because we'remad or anything like that.
She's much better about saying,hey, I haven't heard from you.
Hey, I called you, what'shappening?
Um, but I think, you know, itnot being home for so long has

(15:55):
made it so, you know, I have toreally put a lot of intention in
maintaining regular contact withmy family members, who I love
dearly and who we have abeautiful relationship.

SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
So yeah, that changed for me when I moved back
to Pittsburgh.
When I lived in New York, Icould go a couple of weeks
sometimes without speaking to mypeople.
Yeah.
But ever since I've been backand I live around the corner
from mother, if I don't talkcall her within 24 hours, she
acts like she said, I'll callher on a Tuesday morning.
Well, you ain't called me in 24hours.
Ma'am, I'm calling you now.
Would you like me to hang up?
I love it so much.

SPEAKER_02 (16:27):
Listen, if my mom will move to Houston, she can
see me every day.

SPEAKER_01 (16:32):
Well, we we gonna we're gonna we we still working
on that.

SPEAKER_02 (16:35):
I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_01 (16:36):
But but but I want to I know yeah, that's another
ho, that's another topic.

SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
It is another topic, another topic.

SPEAKER_01 (16:42):
Mama Mel, it's time to come to Houston.
Look at that good lights.
What I was gonna say about whatyou were saying also is I think
there's a bit of, even thoughwe're not overwhelmed or like
we're not burnt out yet, I thinkthere's a level of survivor's
guilt in this moment for whenthere's it's feast of famine,
where there's some of us who aretrying to keep the lights on and
get back to work, and some of ushave an abundance of work and

(17:04):
we're like, let's get to itwhile we got it.
Yeah, yeah.
I know that's me.
Like, I've been definitely me.
Yeah, I've been given moreresponsibilities at work, and
everybody's like, oh, are theydoing this and they're doing
that?
I was like, listen, I'm gonnalook out for myself.
I'm not gonna let them play me.
You know, I have an executivecoach and we're working through
it, but I'm seizing this momentbecause the more value I build
in my role.
And by the way, it's things thatI care about and like to do.

(17:25):
Yeah, um, but the more value Ibuild in my world, the more
valuable I am to them, and themore, you know, I'm ensuring my
future.

SPEAKER_02 (17:32):
Yeah, and black women, we this is a pattern,
right?
This is this is what we do.
Even in my business, I said inthis season, I'm gonna take on
more work than I would typicallytake on because people are now
finding out those budgets thatthey thought were gonna expand
for next year, they're notexpanding.
People are cutting professionaldevelopment from entry-level and

(17:53):
mid-level staff, right?
Bringing everything in-house andautomated or whatever they're
doing, right?
Go talk to AI and let AI be acoach or whatever.
And so I have to think about howdo I future proof my business
because I'm a two-way mousehole,right?
And so I I do think that that isa pattern, and I'm trying to

(18:16):
manage that.
Um, but it's it is a struggle.

SPEAKER_01 (18:20):
Listen, I just paid my first professional, um, my
first coaching bill.
Because before that, I was in aprogram that my company paid
for.
And before that, I was in cheat.
You know, I was gettingresources, but now the rubber
has meet has met the road andI'm I'm writing checks for my
professional development.
This is a new thing.
So I get it.

(18:41):
I totally get it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (18:42):
So yeah, hang in there, y'all.
Sending a lot of love to thesister circles.

SPEAKER_01 (18:49):
Speaking of sister circles, and and third spaces
and and sacred spaces.
We talked about this in a recentepisode.
Um, and I it it's it's sittingwith me more, is that I miss a
community of faith.
Yeah.
You know, I miss having that.

(19:10):
Um and but I don't miss itenough to just go back to what
I'm used to because I'm nottrying to get put out.
And I and I also don't want myspirit to be vacuum.
Now I'm I'm not expecting to bein a space where I'm a hundred
percent aligned with everythingthat somebody, you know, thinks
and does.
I'm not looking for utopia, butI am looking for like a

(19:33):
life-affirming space where Ican, you know, be okay be
comfortable in my questioningand um, but just you know, sing
a hymn.

SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (19:43):
Re read a book together.
I don't know, open the Bible,you know, ask some ask some
tough questions, you know, getget me through the week.
I am looking for a lifeaffirming space like that.
So I just had to say thatbecause yeah, it's been on my
heart this week.

SPEAKER_02 (19:59):
Yeah, I mean, um we are trying on the platform to
start to follow progressivefaith community so that
hopefully you all will start toget exposed to some of those
content, you know, places ofworship, or you know, there's a
place here in Houston.
They don't really callthemselves a church, they do
like meditation and anencouraging word, or they may

(20:22):
have an art show and adiscussion.
Um, but it, you know, it it is aplace of spiritual community
that people really, really valuehere.

SPEAKER_01 (20:33):
Yeah, what's that place in um is it Durham, North
Carolina?
It's an artist space, but it'slike a it's like a church.

unknown (20:40):
Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (20:41):
Um I'm about to look it up and put it in the show
notes, but I always think aboutoh, North Star Church of the
Arts.
Oh.
Uh North Star provides holisticsupport for marginalized artists
and a community space forhealing, connection, and
cross-cultural understanding.

SPEAKER_02 (20:55):
Awesome.
We'll put that in the shownotes, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 (20:58):
Yeah, like things like this.
It doesn't have to be this, butjust the opportunities uh for
people to convene and to cometogether.
And I love that it's under thisidea of the church, but the
church, just like we always talkabout when we went to the
concert to to a renaissance, andhow we was like, oh my God, this
feels like what church feelslike now.

(21:20):
We can't share that witheverybody, and that's really the
thing that the hump that we haveto get over is that not
everybody's gonna understandthat journey on our spiritual
quest, and we have to find thethe like-minded people who are
open to it and be cool with thatand be okay that some cousins
and some aunties and even mamasgonna think that you have lost
your ever-loving mind and youare on a you know, you're a
heretic, heretic, what do youcall them?
Heretic, yeah, heretic.

(21:41):
So that's the that's the that'sthe T.
So for instance, one of myco-workers, I was like, you
know, because some people thinkum people think that uh the
sacred beauty products isdemonic.
And they was like, I mean, metoo.

SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
I was like, Lord I mean, she's either gonna be in
the Illuminati or is she overhere putting you in a cult.

SPEAKER_01 (22:09):
And I'm and I and I'm not judging anybody on their
journey.
I'm not judging the you know theraptureists.
I mean, maybe I am, but what Iam gonna say is I want y'all to
be as afraid of and think thatwhite supremacy is as demonic as
y'all do freaking, yeah,freaking the the the leave-in
condition about sacred.
That's all I'm asking.

SPEAKER_02 (22:31):
Can we can we talk about the rapture?
Because you know I grew up in achurch that believed in the
rapture.
Oh, oh, I remember seeing leftbehind as kids.
All the parent children, theyshould be the one getting going
to hell.

SPEAKER_01 (22:47):
Now, now the church that I grew up with as a as a
like the church I grew up with,like my mom and them, that
wasn't talked about as much inthat church.
But I remember back in the dayat my grandpa's church when we
were younger and being at Vic uhat junior church and them
talking about left behind andall that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (23:03):
Listen, Jack, when my husband, uh y'all, when my
husband and I uh was earlymarried, he was like, I'm never
gonna die.
I'm gonna be raptured.
I said, Is that is that mysupposedly my guarantee?
My guarantee.

SPEAKER_01 (23:18):
My God today.

SPEAKER_02 (23:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (23:20):
Matter of fact, let me look up left behind in case
people wonder what thereference, but child, that used
to scare the living day likethat.

SPEAKER_02 (23:30):
Am I the only one, kid?

SPEAKER_01 (23:34):
Baby.

SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 (23:37):
Left behind is a 2000 Christian apocalyptic
thriller film.

SPEAKER_00 (23:42):
Not apocalyptic.

SPEAKER_01 (23:43):
Jesus, my God.
One of the uh I don't even knowwhich one is the right one, so
but we'll put it in the shownotes.

SPEAKER_02 (23:51):
One of the white priests that I follow, y'all,
did a great um video on wherethis theology around the um the
rapture came from.
So we'll put the the video inthe show notes.

SPEAKER_01 (24:05):
But I think I saw that.

SPEAKER_02 (24:07):
I have been just sitting with the fact that
people that I love reallybelieve this to be true.
And how do I hold the tension ofthat and not ridicule this
belief that they have?
Like it is really it'scomplicated.

SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
Listen, one of the um one of the the influencers
that I used to follow a littlebit on YouTube, I she was well
known, Shameless Maya, I thinkher name is.
Okay.
Um Christian.
Um, I believe she's originallyfrom Canada.
Okay.
But she moved to Sweden orsomething, or something.

(24:51):
And she married a younger man,they got married, had a baby.
And I didn't watch the wholething because it was painful for
me to watch, but she was onYouTube crying, talking about
how she had been deceived.
And I'm like, what is shetalking about?
Did her husband leave orsomething?
But then I saw people in thenotes talking about, oh, she's
talking about the rapturebecause she thought it was this
week too.
And I was like, I'm I was like,I'm building the empathy and

(25:13):
compassion I need to watch thevideo because right now I just I
can't do it and keep mywhatever.
Yeah.
But I was like, wow, and she hassuch a platform, and I want us
to, you know, I really want usto um I I do I I don't have no
intentions of going back toschool.
I just paid my student lows offat the age of almost 50.

(25:36):
So, but it's times like thesewhen I really wish that I went
to theological seminary.

SPEAKER_02 (25:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
Um I remember being at a woman's um retreat with my
church and a bunch of womengetting up and crying, talking
about going to the theologicalseminary and how it broke them
down because they had professorswho they like clearly weren't
believers, and they found thatso upsetting.

(26:04):
And and they kept saying it mademe question they were it was
almost like they wanted me toquestion what I believe, and I
want to be like, yes, that's thepoint.
But to them, it was like anassault on their spirit, their
spirit and their Christianity,and like they were it was so
fear-based, and I'm like, oh,this is a somewhat innocent
innocuous version of what we'reexperiencing as like people

(26:26):
having a really hard time ofletting go, you know, that
cognitive dissonance of like, ifI, if I if I if I look at this
too long, yeah, I may change mymind a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 (26:37):
And um at that point, people are like, you
know, nuanced, right?
People who say, you know, theydon't want their children
hanging around, you know, peoplewho are different than them, who
don't believe what they believe,um, who don't believe
homosexuality is a sin, whowhatever, right?

(26:57):
And so they isolate, right?
I think that's very differentthan saying making some
intentional choices about thetype of people you hang around,
um, than completely isolatingyour family because you don't
want them to be corrupted.
Um, I think we I believe inraising children to think

(27:18):
critically, and that includesasking questions about their
faith, right?
Or choosing to not have a faith.
Because that is what feelsaligned and right to them.
Um period.

SPEAKER_01 (27:33):
Perfect example.
We have people who aregun-loving people, and we have
people who have guns becausethey realize that we live in a
violent country.
A lot of the gun-loving peoplewill have their kids learning
how to use a gun at eight or tenand feel that they have the
logical or they can connect thedots enough for their children
not to have them just going outbeing violent and shooting

(27:55):
people that they'll know a timeand a place for it.
But will not do the same thingfor a book.
Yep.
Will not do the same thing, youknow, for a gathering, and and I
find that unbelievable.
Yeah.
You know, um I agree.
Yeah, and I think that that tome is what we're wrestling with
is like why ideology is sodangerous.

SPEAKER_02 (28:15):
Yeah, because ideology doesn't have to be
rational, right?
I live in a state where my mygovernor is led by ideology.
So even if something doesn'tmake fiscal sense, let alone
moral or political sense, buteven if it doesn't make fiscal
sense, he, as someone whoseparty believes in fiscal
conservatism, will vote againstthe thing that would save us

(28:38):
money or generate revenue.
And it is wild to watch, butit's also why you can't like you
can't use logic with ideologues,people who believe in ideology
like that.
You just it doesn't work becausethey do not care about what the
science says, what the mathsays.

SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
Yep.
Indeed.
And this is why, as much as I'vebeen decluttering my house, I
have decided I am not gettingrid of one book.
Because if I leave here withnothing, I might have a I might
have a library of books.
Because they know telling whatthey're gonna do with these
internets.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, that's so that's soreal.
It's like I don't know if youread that um Heather uh McGee's

(29:18):
book, The Some of Us.
So in the Some of Us, she talksabout how um that talks about
basically how racism reallyimpacts all of us, including
racists.
And she shows all these likereally on the ground simple.
She's a policy wonk, she'shighly, you know, uh highly uh

(29:38):
graduate and all this stuff.
And so she really breaks it downin that like it is basically
built off the premise of likethe whole sum of our parts or
whatever.
Okay.
Um but like racism, whitesupremacy, and late stage
capitalism is hustling backwardsfor like 99% of us.
And then actually, the sum ofus, for the sum of us, all of

(29:59):
these things are bad.
Um and basically the math uh themath of racism is illogical and
actually is causing us all harm.
And she showed examples of allof it in the book.
It's a really good book.
It was out a few years ago, andit's it's particularly um timely
for this moment right now.

(30:19):
But I always I I I have to fightthe urge to go on Facebook
because that's where a lot ofthe people I know who I grew up
with who are have turned out tobe mag adjacent are like you
know all of this is messing youup too.
But you when the rubber's gonnahit the road, you know, you see
what's happening with thesoybean farmers and stuff.
Yeah, yeah.
Wait till they tell these peoplethey ain't got no social

(30:39):
security.

SPEAKER_02 (30:41):
Listen, listen, Linda, listen.

SPEAKER_01 (30:46):
Because them soybean farmers are 50 be tied.

SPEAKER_02 (30:50):
But we have seen this country time and time again
vote against their self-interestto make sure black people
remember their place.
So yeah, it's gonna be a hardtime.
You know, I just talked to myhusband about how much cash we
have on hand.
I'm about to buy me a vegetabletower.

(31:12):
I'm not gonna be out thereplanting in the dirt, but I can
plant in the tower because I'mnot paying no more money than
what I'm paying right now for nofor no vegetables.
It don't make no sense.

SPEAKER_01 (31:25):
Yeah, that's why, you know, I'm like more and more
Greg's way of living.
I'm like, oh man, I might haveto get on board.
Oh, here's the book.

It's called The Sum of Us (31:33):
What Racism Costs Everyone and How We
Can Prosper Together.
It was 2021.

SPEAKER_02 (31:38):
We added it to our bookshop, so we will share the
notes in the show.
Show notes.
I mean the link in the shownotes.

SPEAKER_01 (31:46):
Yeah, she also apparently, which I don't
remember, I think I might havelistened to an early episode.
I don't know if it still exists,but she in 2022 created a
podcast to kind of expand on herbook.
So we'll find that as well.

SPEAKER_02 (31:57):
Awesome.
I love it, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 (32:01):
Oh, I know one thing that we talk about for such a
time as this.
We said we was gonna talk aboutyou know, just in a group chat.

SPEAKER_02 (32:10):
What was it?
Bodega bag okay, y'all.
I am a thousand percent addictedto this album.
Every morning.
She is giving me my life and mytimeline back.

SPEAKER_01 (32:30):
Yeah, why was I in the um Dagon gym this morning
getting my life when that cameon?
I so I first of all I had mytraining.
She's like, what should welisten to?
So much new music has come out,Doja Cat.
First, we started listening toMariah Care.
I was like, I love Mariah, butthis ain't gonna make me want to
like pump pump the pump someiron.
I said, put on Cardi B.

(32:51):
And I said, watch till BodegaBetty come out.
Come on.
Bodega Betty come.
I got up and I was like, ah, ah,it took me right back to New
York.
It took me back to the gooddays.

SPEAKER_02 (33:03):
I mean, she said, like, this is a Bronx album.
And it and it and it absolutelyis.

SPEAKER_01 (33:10):
But I gotta I'm gonna go to Genius.com I gotta
go to genius.com so I can pullup some of my favorite lyrics
from this album.
Um because the petty pattinessof it all.

SPEAKER_02 (33:25):
I love it.

SPEAKER_01 (33:26):
Um, but what's the song where she was like uh my
favorite song?
Uh what's your favorite song?

SPEAKER_02 (33:35):
Um no, I have a lot.
I can't say that.
I have several favorites rightnow.

SPEAKER_01 (33:40):
Oh, uh oh, uh outside.
Where she said the hook is whereshe be like, outside ninjas love
an outside B.
But be mad when they get someoutside.
And she said verse one, well,let's go wrong for wrong.
Let's go lick for lick.
If I can't handle that, let mesee you handle this.

(34:01):
Do you how you do me, that youwon't speak again.
Favorite player from yourfavorite team, he and my DM.
I'm so small and tiny.
He's so big and tall.
Might let him dunk on something.
Like he dunked the ball.

SPEAKER_02 (34:19):
Oh, yeah.
Oh my god.
I love pretty and petty.
That one's that one is a goodone.
I like Dead with Summer Walker.
Of course, I like safe.
Man of your word, though.
Man of your word.

SPEAKER_01 (34:35):
Yes.
Man of your word is dope too.
Let me let me pull up myfavorite lyric from there.
Um this is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 (34:42):
I am enjoying uh the Lizzo song.

SPEAKER_01 (34:45):
Um, with the four non-blondes um sample.

SPEAKER_02 (34:48):
Mm-hmm.
So that's pretty cute.

SPEAKER_01 (34:51):
From that sample, four nine blondes interpolation,
or whatever you call it.
What's going on?

SPEAKER_00 (34:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (34:57):
Yeah, I'm um, you know, my thing with Cardi is
like, you don't like her, great.
But in a world of fakes.

SPEAKER_02 (35:06):
She ain't fat.

SPEAKER_01 (35:07):
There's no there's no one more authentic.

SPEAKER_02 (35:09):
No.

SPEAKER_01 (35:10):
Like, when she got on that stand and said, listen,
there was this was there was nophysical altercation.
And he said, Did you call herfat?
She said, No, I called her a B.
And it's like, he's like, Do youthink that she's that?
He's like, she's like, well, youknow, she looked like she could
secure a building.
You know, I appreciate that.

(35:31):
And so then when she cameoutside and the the reporter
came for her and she threw apen, and they were like, Well,
wait.
Basically what she was sayingis, if I was going to hit
somebody, I would have done itin public and showed you that I
hit.
But in this case, it was justverbal, it was a verbal
altercation.
It was not physical.
I believe everything that shesays.
They asked her why she keepsgetting liposuction and stuff.

(35:52):
She's like, I'm not gettingliposuction to get skinny, um,
to get skinny.
I'm already skinny.
I'm getting liposuction becauseI like to look thick.
But she said, but I also take mytime because I like life too.
I don't want to die.

SPEAKER_00 (36:06):
Listen.

SPEAKER_01 (36:07):
I love that for her.
So, you know, whatever you thinkabout how she cares, what does
what she does in a world where Idon't know, I I never know what
to, you know, get from me, but Iknow what I'm giving her, and I
love it.
And she's also like supersweetheart.

SPEAKER_02 (36:22):
She is.
And I I feel really disappointedat the women who've been popping
off about her being pregnant.
What what what hope be improvedwith whoever of how many
children got to do with you inyour house.

SPEAKER_01 (36:37):
And them kids be so loved, they got a whole
Dominican and Trinidad in afamily loving up on them.
They got they got her, they gotHennessy, they got her mama,
they got her aunties, and theythey are those the type of kids
who are growing up with theircousins.

SPEAKER_02 (36:51):
Yeah.
I love hearing her say that inone of the interviews that she's
she's still scared of herparents.

SPEAKER_01 (36:57):
Yeah, she was scared to tell them.

SPEAKER_02 (36:59):
Yeah, I'm like, I don't play with my mama.
My mama's like, excuse me, Idon't care how old you are.

SPEAKER_01 (37:05):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (37:06):
Get your life.
Right, yeah, right.
I I I like that for sure.

unknown (37:10):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (37:11):
Um the millennial girls strike again.

SPEAKER_02 (37:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm I'm like, you want to talkabout Mariah and her um and
Anderson possessed?
Vision of love dreams beingback.

SPEAKER_01 (37:24):
What were you the one that said Mariah starting
wearing her hair, her hair curlyagain?

SPEAKER_02 (37:28):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:31):
I hadn't even been paying attention and now I can't
unsee it.
Now every time I see her, I juststart laughing.

SPEAKER_02 (37:35):
I said, okay, curls.
Listen, when I saw Mariah'scurls were back, I was like, why
would anyone convince her to nothave these beautiful curls out?
I know.

SPEAKER_01 (37:46):
And she and she's been using that pattern beauty
or something because the curlsis popping.

SPEAKER_02 (37:50):
I was like, and she don't have to worry about doing
her hair.
Somebody can do it for her.

SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (37:55):
I'm curious if if Moreau encouraged her.
Because Monroe be keeping herher curls out.

SPEAKER_01 (38:02):
What's interesting to me is a lot of people have
been talking about how Mariahseems sedated to a certain
extent.
But I feel like she, whatevershe's, you know, whatever she's
contending with in terms of hermental health, I feel like she's
in her like, listen, I'm almost60 years old.

(38:24):
Yeah.
And contrary to popular beliefand what Tommy Matolan tried to
show you, I'm blacky, black,black, black.
And all the people behind thescenes been knew that.

SPEAKER_02 (38:33):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (38:34):
But y'all gonna learn that today.

SPEAKER_02 (38:35):
They gave you a product with not her.
And when she got free from that,man, she's been herself the
whole time.

SPEAKER_01 (38:42):
And she getting freer.
Like even her.

SPEAKER_02 (38:45):
As every black woman over the edge of 50 is, right?

SPEAKER_01 (38:49):
Even her talking about Nick Cannon recently, she
was basically saying he's anarcissist.
Um, you know, before, you know,she did she she she yeah, she
plays coy well.
She plays like like Petty Diva,like I'm not gonna say nothing
well, but she doesn'tnecessarily always like share
things.
And so I feel like she, I knowshe just had that book that she

(39:10):
did with my my Michaela AngelaDavis a couple years ago.
But I think she's more in thespace of like um just showing up
more as who she wants to be.

SPEAKER_02 (39:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (39:20):
She don't have nothing to lose now.

SPEAKER_02 (39:21):
She doesn't.
And she recently lost her momand her sister, right?

SPEAKER_01 (39:26):
Oh, I didn't even know she lost both of them.

SPEAKER_02 (39:27):
So I think that was last year or so.
So yeah.
She ran through some things.

SPEAKER_01 (39:32):
The tables turn when things like that happen.

SPEAKER_02 (39:33):
And then for her to work with Anderson Pack, who
just, you know, you thinkAnderson's the one who brought
them girls, back.

SPEAKER_01 (39:40):
Yeah.
You know, Anderson is one of myfavorite artists of the last 15
years.
Um, you know, he got a littleyouthful man energy.
So sometimes I'm like, oh God,grow up.
But I think he is growing up.
Um, but me, but his music isundeniable.

unknown (39:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (39:57):
And I think regardless of what people think
of the music, I haven't listenedto the whole album yet.
I think he's given herpermission.
He's made up space for her tosay, girl, you can do what you
want.
You can Mariah Carey.
Yeah.
Right?
Like, you wanna you want alittle do a little RB thing?
Like, come on, let's do it.
What you want, what you want?
You know?

SPEAKER_02 (40:17):
Listen, that shoe album was one of my favorites of
her.

SPEAKER_01 (40:20):
Hello, I was just about to say Honey 2.0.
Yes.
Now, I'm not gonna say this isHoney 2.0 because I didn't
listen to it and I don't thinkit's Honey 2.0.
I think it's whatever it is now,but that same spirit, right?
Yeah.
Um, and yeah, you know, she evenshe mentioned something in an
interview about how, you know,Anderson was like, you know, do
you, you know, like and it wasreally like encouraging her and

(40:42):
supporting her.
Um, and not just because she's alegend, but because, you know,
he saw, you know, he hadbelieved in her.
So I'm I'm happy for her.
Um, I'm happy for I know Lizzo'sabout to put out some new music.
Um, she seems to be in a goodheadspace.
I know people have come for herbecause she's lost weight, but

(41:02):
she she should not have toexplain her body to people.
And she seems to be in a goodheadspace, she's been
reflective.
Yeah.
I think we talked about this onthe episode with Dr.
Lawrence, how she's beenreflective of like how she had
to comport herself and what shehad been through and what that
means, and you know how she hadto like adjust to start him.

SPEAKER_02 (41:23):
And when we change and grow and our circumstances
change, that can change howpeople relate.

SPEAKER_01 (41:28):
Everybody don't grow with you.
You can't what they say, youcan't take everybody with you.

SPEAKER_02 (41:33):
You cannot.
And that sometimes us trying tobring people with us is what is
our downfall.

SPEAKER_01 (41:39):
Listen, we always always can we can always talk
about, I mean, and he meant forgood, but remember the story,
even though it's noteverything's not about money,
yeah.
About MC Hammer.

SPEAKER_03 (41:48):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (41:49):
You know what I mean?
I remember that was always thestory as he was trying to take
everybody with him, andeverybody can't go.

SPEAKER_02 (41:54):
Everybody can't go.

SPEAKER_01 (41:57):
And even if you do take them, you have to take them
on terms that work for you.
But I find a lot of people takethem, want to be want you to
take them on their terms.

SPEAKER_02 (42:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (42:05):
Yeah, not yours.

SPEAKER_02 (42:06):
So I feel that.

SPEAKER_01 (42:09):
What else is popular, populating and
craculating?

SPEAKER_02 (42:12):
Um, shout out to Win with Black Women.
Uh yeah for continuing toorganize us and keep the
opportunities for us to connectalive.
I do hope y'all go back to uhnot publishing on YouTube.

SPEAKER_03 (42:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (42:28):
Sometimes I feel like it's just too many ops
listening in.
Now I'm bringing my cardi out.
Too many ops listening into ourconversations, and I'm tired.

SPEAKER_01 (42:39):
So yeah, I do miss when it was a little bit more
insular, but I get like we wantto be accessible.

SPEAKER_02 (42:45):
We do.
But it's expensive, right?
The more seats you add to Zoom,like now you're giving them way
too much money.
So I mean, I get it, but man, itwas it was really nice when it
was approached.

SPEAKER_01 (42:59):
Yeah.
My dream is that at some pointthe there's a platform that like
the community kind of robust,similar to like the Exodus
Summit, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 (43:08):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (43:09):
Um, where people can have profiles and you can know
what people are doing and bemore like that.
I mean, it's great, you know.
I do love that it like createsplatforms for people to have
access to, you know, people,black women doing great work and
all parts of in politics andcultural work and all that
stuff.
But I think some of the toughconversations that we need to

(43:31):
have, you can't really have infront of everybody.

SPEAKER_02 (43:32):
Yeah.
That's what we're strugglingwith, y'all, even in terms of
Instagram, right?
Like people want to have theseconversations, but there's an
amount of safety we know peopleneed to be open, sometimes from
family, sometimes from work.
Um, so yeah, I think all of thefolks who are in a creative
space are are or in a spacewhere you're sharing on some

(43:55):
really thoughtful topics thatcould provide for rich
discussion.
We're we're all thinking aboutthis.

SPEAKER_01 (44:06):
Baby, everybody, some things are for the groove
chat, and some things are forthe book club, and some things
are for the dinner party, andsome things are for just the
late night.
Not even on your phone.

SPEAKER_02 (44:18):
Yes, not even on your phone, not even on your
phone.

SPEAKER_01 (44:21):
Some stuff is for that that third space with no
Wi-Fi.

SPEAKER_02 (44:26):
Yes, yes, yeah.
I think more of us need to uhput our post in a note and give
it give it some time to sit.
Because when we come back to it,we see sometimes we just either
saying too much, popping off onthings that really aren't
necessary.
I find myself now sometimes I'lllike a post, and then I'm like,

(44:47):
why did I like this post?
I don't even care enough aboutthis for this to end up in my
news feed, and I'm going backand unfighting.

SPEAKER_01 (44:54):
I've done that too.
I did that last night.
I'm like, wait a minute.
I'm just liking to be liking.
I don't even gel with this likethat.
Yep.
So yeah.
I um, you know, it's great whenI see people at galas and all
the other events, but like Ineed more in-person, just like
even with my girls, of like, youknow, that's what what what was
so great about Martha's Vineyardis having the house and like

(45:17):
just sometimes just eating andchilling and talking stuff.
And even in the car, the ride,you know.
It like stuff that we take forwe used to take for granted as
young people is like ourluxuries now.
A road trip is a luxury, a nighthome with friends is another is
a luxury.

SPEAKER_02 (45:31):
Yep.
A girls' weekend.

SPEAKER_01 (45:32):
A girls' weekend is a luxury.
But you know what, Kelly?
Yes, we have girls' weekend outthe past year.
I've seen you a lot, I've seenyou more the past year than I've
seen it since we were young.

SPEAKER_02 (45:41):
I love it.

unknown (45:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (45:43):
Yeah, I was like, damn, I've seen Kelly.
I just saw Kelly in Martha'sVineyard.
I saw Kelly in Houston, I sawKelly in LA, I saw Kelly in San
Francisco in the Berg.

SPEAKER_02 (45:53):
And we're getting ready for a couple more, so it's
gonna be nice.
Awesome.
You ready for your birthday?

SPEAKER_01 (46:01):
I am.
I'm just I'm trying to bepatient.
So my invitation is is I wentdigital because we didn't want
to spend$3,000 on invitations.
It's all set up.
One of my hotel um blocks is setup on here.
But the other hotel is bougie,and I have to give them some
sort of deposit.
And I have to check my email tosee if they sent me the link.

(46:23):
But basically, I'm just waitingto add that other link to the
invitation and send them out.
But I think I'm gonna just startsending them out to local people
because they're not getting ahotel anyway.

SPEAKER_02 (46:30):
Y'all know these type of problems.
I love this for us.

SPEAKER_01 (46:37):
Child, I love my um my party planner, but she can
scare me sometimes because shebecause she comes up with these
like really cool ideas, and I'mlike, oh, this is gonna cost me.
She's like, oh, what if we gotan engraver to come in and do
this and this?
I'm like, not like at afundraiser.
I'm like, that sounds great, butalso let me check.
Now I I had my tasting lastweek, and I'm like, I told her,

(46:58):
I said, the only I do not I nohost bar when it comes to food
and beverage.
You should always have more thanenough food and beverage.
I want premium liquor, I want,you know, if otherwise, how do
you have people coming if you'regonna be cheap?
Right?
Like, that ain't gonna work.

SPEAKER_02 (47:15):
Don't talk about my people right now.

SPEAKER_01 (47:17):
But she's bringing in, she's bringing in other
furniture and hosts andentertainers, and so uh next
year, much trips I'm taking, I'mgonna be on points because this
party is about to cost me afortune.

SPEAKER_02 (47:32):
All goodness though.
But how many times does one turn50?
A good reminder, like we dodeserve joy, we deserve
pleasure.
Um, and so many of us, and I uhmeet, you know I'm guilty of it.
I will do for other peoplebefore I will do for myself,
right?
I'll spend money on other peoplebefore I'll spend money on

(47:52):
myself.
And in this season of my life,um one, I've put a boundary and
said this house will be a houseof peace.
So if you can't be peaceful, youcan't be in my house, period.
Um, and then the other is I'mlike learning how to play again,
how to understand, you know, asa former church girl, I I don't

(48:14):
know what pleasure is.
And I think that's one thing Ilove about Cardi.
Like, she is fine and and clearin her sexuality, and she
doesn't give a damn, nor shouldshe, right?
But so many of us are movingthrough the world with all of
these, you know, messages thatwe see, receive, stereotypes
that we've heard and been told,and we don't even realize we

(48:38):
still bound.
We are still bound, and whatwe're doing is projecting onto
somebody who is not our job,right?
And I I've been watching us dothat as black women the last
week, and it's been a like Isaid, it's been disappointing.

SPEAKER_01 (48:53):
Yeah, I was, I remember it made me think of I I
don't want to call her outspecifically, but um a minister
um was teaching Bible study forwomen, a couple, maybe when I
first moved back to Pittsburgh,and she was saying, telling
people not to watch Scandal andall these shows that were hot at
that time.
And she's like, Because, youknow, it will make you feel a

(49:17):
certain kind of way.
And then she started going onand talking about how she used
to be a hoe.
And I was like, just because youused to be a hoe, don't mean
that I watch scandal and want togo be a hoe.
So if that's your thing, if youneed to step away from the table
of scandal, yeah, more power toyou.
But as for me and my house,we're watching scandal.

(49:37):
That ain't my thing.
How do you gonna be a bubble?
So tell me not to watch scandalbecause you was a hoe.
Right?
So yeah, we know I see a lot ofthat, even I see a lot of that,
you know, and to a more extreme.
Yeah.
Now, and and at the end of theday, all of this is blasphemous
because people think that justbecause you say the name of
Jesus, that it's okay.

(49:59):
Even though folks is beinghateful and stuff, that's all
blasphemous.
You're using the name of theLord in vain.
So we're gonna talk about it.
Let's talk about it.
Let's talk about it.
Let's talk about it.
If you want to you want to talkJesus, I can talk Jesus.
I may not be y'all's kind ofChristian, but I know a man from
Galilee.

SPEAKER_00 (50:19):
I know a man from Galilee.

SPEAKER_01 (50:23):
So let's go.
Speaking of theologicalseminary, I ran into, I feel
like God just be putting peopleon my path.
I ran into a woman who's alittle younger than me.
She's friends, you know, myfriend Will Fagan's.
I know I met him, met her tothem.
She's from Pittsburghoriginally, but she's we both
lived in New York at the sametime.
She lived in Harlem.
She's now married.

(50:44):
Well, she's doing, I want tosay, is she getting her MDV or
something like that?
At Pittsburgh TheologicalSeminary.
And it's like um low residency,so she does online, and then she
comes in once a month.
I just happened to run into herum in the lobby of the hotel
next to my job because there's aI was at happy hour there.

(51:05):
And she's in seminary, and um, Iwould love to bring her onto the
pod.
Okay.
She I asked her, she told mewhat she was working on, and she
says she's doing work aroundart, theology, and culture in
South Korea, Ethiopia, andGhana.
So I'm just putting that outthere in the universe in case

(51:28):
she hears this episode, becauseI told her to start listening to
the pod.

SPEAKER_00 (51:30):
I love it.

SPEAKER_01 (51:31):
Um, but like, well, I the reason why I know it felt
like a non-sequitur, the re whythe reason why I brought it in
is that like people think thatif you are in a faith space,
that you're supposed to just sayJesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus,
Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus,Jesus, Jesus.
And what I think bringing theseconversations in is like pop
culture, art, uh, travel, allthese things are part of how we

(51:53):
live and that like the full thiswoman, this work is about the
fullness of our lives and notjust about Jesus, Jesus, Jesus,
Jesus, Jesus.
You know, Jesus is at the centerof every of everything, but we
are fully realized human beings.

SPEAKER_02 (52:09):
Like you were seeing you're saying, Where's your ass?

unknown (52:14):
Come back.

SPEAKER_01 (52:17):
Oh, I gotta do like Cardi.

SPEAKER_00 (52:24):
I love you so much.

SPEAKER_01 (52:26):
So what else?
What else?
What's the what what's the whatwhat's the word?
What are we leaving, what are wegoing into this new week with?
Oh, it's almost October of 2025.

SPEAKER_02 (52:35):
I mean, I'm hoping to go into the week with new
spiritual practices.
So I'm working on my altoidpocket altar.

SPEAKER_01 (52:46):
What did I do with my little prayer box?

SPEAKER_02 (52:48):
And I have some uh some oil in here, some holy oil,
and I it's holy because I saidit is.
Lots of water.

SPEAKER_01 (52:59):
So when I was so when I was cleaning out my my
side table by my bed, I found myprayer box and it came with like
a little, it came with like alittle notepad and a pencil that
like if you're it says, when youwhen your head starts to worry
and your mind just can't rest,put your prayers down on paper
and let God do the rest.
But I'm gonna switch it up andmake it a little bit more

(53:20):
blasphemous like yours and putlittle crystals and things and
stuff in it.
Not a blasphemous.
So, but but um but so you know,I feel like I mean, what are the
chances that you start makingthese altar things and I go in
my thing and I find this?
And I hadn't even opened it,like the plastic, I had to take
the plastic off the pen, thepencil, and the oh well.

SPEAKER_02 (53:41):
I love it.
Well, here we go.
To be even more blasphemous, I Igot some of my ideas for my
pocket altar off the WiccanReddit.
So the white wicken.
The what Reddit?
The Wiccan.

SPEAKER_01 (53:53):
Oh, oh Lord, you're trying to get us put out.

SPEAKER_02 (53:56):
The white the white magic um leaders and
practitioners um also makepocket altars.
So it's mostly Catholic peopleand the Wiccans.
So it's been really interestingbecause I was like, oh, I used
to believe that Wiccans aregoing to hell, and here I am on
a Reddit page getting guidanceon building my pocket altar.

(54:19):
Um, there's a great video, we'llput a link to the chat of a
woman who's talking about usingpocket altars for like if you
want to do some ancestor ritualsor if you're prepping for a job
and you want it to be like your,you know, kind of your North
Star and things that encourageyou.
There's so many ways you can usethem, but it was just

(54:39):
interesting that I those are thetwo extremes of people exploring
pocket uh altars on theinternet.

SPEAKER_01 (54:46):
And to that point, people that are afraid of
ritual, because actually thereason why people are upset
about Beyoncé's product isbecause it's called a ritual.
A ritual is a practice, apractice, yes.
So so so your Christian rights,the things that you do as a
Christian should be rich shouldbe ritualistic in that sense in
that sense, but I digress.
But people who get upset aboutyou know these types of like

(55:09):
ancestor veneration, all thatstuff, don't know Bible, because
all that stuff is right in theword.
And then these be the samepeople that be shouting and
stuff.
I'm like, what do you think thatwhat do you think all this is?
It's all connected.
Yeah.
So you made me think of thesethings that we purchased from
that place.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, so um I hadn't reallygotten into them.

(55:29):
But these are the realistoracle.
Did I get this from there or didI get this from um kin folk in
Houston?

SPEAKER_02 (55:37):
I don't know, but I um oh, you mean you're talking
about um Kendra books.
Kendra stories.

SPEAKER_01 (55:44):
Kendra stories, yeah.
No, I got it from I got it fromLA.
But this book, this looks likesomething you could have got
from Kendra Stories, too.
I think I've um but yeah, it's Ihad to buy it because the author
is called Kendra Austin, and itsays The Realist Oracle Finding
Magic in the Mundane.
53 authentic cards andguidebook.

SPEAKER_02 (56:02):
I love it.
I have one too.
Black women.
Yeah, mine is um uh I have adeck too, and I have I'm
building a little oscillator inmy bedroom, and that's where my
my my deck is.
I'll we'll put the links though.

SPEAKER_01 (56:15):
We'll put the links, and then I'll also, because I
will I will pull out thescriptures for the people who
want to be holy and don'tunderstand, you know, how go
ahead with the theology.
And listen, I am no seminarian,but I I read a few I read a
thing or two.

SPEAKER_02 (56:30):
I love it.

SPEAKER_01 (56:30):
Um anyway.

SPEAKER_02 (56:32):
So what are what are our takeaways for today before
we say goodbye to the people?

SPEAKER_01 (56:37):
Nothing is by accident.
So, like I said, you talk aboutyour little altar, and then me
finding this, and at the sametime, me being in a space where
I'm like looking for spiritualpractices, and like just a
reminder that sometimes whatyou're looking for is right
under your nose.
Um, and if we but if we let goof what it's supposed to look
like, right?

(56:58):
Because we think it's supposedto look like the National
Baptist hymnal.
We think it's supposed to looklike a certain kind of pew with
certain kind of people and acertain kind of hat.
And that building spiritualpractices and rituals is
something I'm really gonna begoing into the week thinking
about, and it has I it startswith me.
Yeah, it starts with me.

SPEAKER_02 (57:15):
Yeah.
Um, I think mine is that um thisis like a season to be free.
I'm thinking about Hardy, I'mthinking about Mariah.
Um that the things thatconstrained us, held us back,
had us bound, as the churchpeople would say.

(57:35):
Um, I think those are likemoving away.
And this is a season of offreedom.
Um, I'm also thinkingpolitically, like, you know, my
my thinking is if if thisthey're gonna burn this shit to
the ground, then we get tochoose what we want to build
back.
And how do we use this time toprepare um and build something

(57:57):
new?
We know what was here didn'twork for the most of us.
So let's use our creativity, ourimagination, uh, learning from
our ancestors who fought forliberation about what we're
gonna put in its place.
So yeah, time to be free.

SPEAKER_01 (58:15):
I love that.
And I feel like, you know, justlike you said, it's a hard time
for a black woman.
I also feel a great sense ofopportunity that comes with it.
But we've gotta like, like Dr.
Greg Carr says, stay on oursquare.

SPEAKER_00 (58:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:27):
Um, but Q, Denise, Nisi Williams, free.

SPEAKER_00 (58:32):
Yeah, that's the song.

SPEAKER_01 (58:33):
I'm gonna put it in the show notes.

SPEAKER_00 (58:35):
And I just want to be free.
Free.

SPEAKER_02 (58:45):
Yes.
All right, all right.
That is our kill.
You two love you.
See y'all soon.