Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's so funny. We arrived yesterday. Now my daughter she's too,
she's always been, you know, slimp both kids are slim,
and uh, thank god. And uh but we tried to
teach him to eat right, you know, when they were
younger kids, and and so, uh it's probably more genetics
than anything else. But you know, they they've kept it
(00:22):
down right, so that's a good thing. But she uh,
I mean she's really big right now, right, and and
you know, when you're a sinner person, you know. Even
the doctor was like, he said, oh, you're pregnant, and
he's like, well, you know, what was your previous wage,
Like she told him and he's like, oh wow, He's
(00:42):
like you really are getting big here, right, so big?
So yeah, yeah, yeah, but but you know, it's such
a joyous time. And I mean, I'm going to myself
like wow, you know, it's like you're here to see this,
you know, you're here to and you know people this,
(01:05):
people that you know that the reason we're down here
is the wedding, not the way the baby shower. Uh.
Just on the weekend, and are.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
You doing anything so that she don't have to do
a damn thing?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Do you? Uh? No, no, not really, No, I'm not invited. Yeah,
my wife's got a lot to do, she's got a
lot of running around and yeah yeah, and uh and
Nancy is really good that way. I mean I could
just she has been. I could just see the joy
in her face.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Well what are you going to be doing when this
is going on? Like you're not even allowed in the building.
It's like you're sometimes you know.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Who knows. I'll probably I'll find something to do. But
they're they're they're they're doing it at at my uh
the in law's house. Uh so yeah, yeah, they're good.
They're good people.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
If not what you're calling an ice ray, let.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Me tell you man. Oh yeah, I I I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So crazy you came to make it up the governments?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, hey, you know, look at if they if they
want to if they want to hire me. Uh you know,
I might be so desperate to take a job at
this point, but you know who wants to get mixed
up with this crew? Right?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Like you say, I say, we we take jobs, we
get Bronco, we get VM and then we just don't
show up and then we file grievances.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Right for sexual discrimination.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Discriminated against us man.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
God, you know, I you know, we were talking about
different things here. I don't know if you have anything
you wanted to cover specifically or mentioned, but uh, go ahead.
Uh you know, like I was just this morning, I
didn't get to listen to the whole show, uh this
morning because I kept getting interrupted because of all the activity,
(03:05):
not being home, you know, and my shoulder had to
leave for work and stuff. So uh but but I
love this here. I just jotted this down. You you
were talking about josher Witz and this whole nonsense, right
and and you were talking about you know, the masad
thing and uh and and it's like you were saying,
like if you're a lawyer, and I just picked it
(03:26):
up in the middle, It's like it's like, uh, you know,
you're not going to go down and seams of my client.
You know, you're so fucking full of ship you'd run
like a bitch, you know, with your dick between your legs,
tucked between the back of your legs, uh, to the
fed you know, wag you know, telling them what was
really going on, you know. And I mean it's so true.
I mean I couldn't believe like you're saying, they drag
(03:47):
out this guy Solomon.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, he And I didn't want to say it on
the show, right because I talked about on Friday, because
I don't want to really put it. He's proving something
even worse than what I said. I was talking like
a normal defense attorney would be like, listen, this guy's
a fucking spy. I gotta you know. It's not protected
(04:12):
like criminal Here's here's how it works. Uh. And I
don't want to lose the original point, but here's how
it works. If you're defense attorney, you're defending your client
for the charges he or she is up against in
the past. If you know that they are conducting criminality
(04:33):
in the present or into the future, you can't protect that.
That's not work product. If defense come and ask you,
do you know that your client was engaged in espionage
after the indictment, so yeah, of course he was. There's
no there's no attorney client privilege to if you're conducting
criminality unless you have. The only really out of it
(04:57):
is if you have a cooperating agreement, uh, a CI
agreement with the federal government, which would allow you basically
to keep keep breaking the lots crazy. But here's the
thing with Dershwitz where he fucked up. He knew the
Massad connection because he brought it up, and he said, oh,
(05:19):
he wouldn't do this, he wouldn't do that. But here's
the thing, Dershowitz isn't gonna see. Dershowitz is not about
the United States. Derschwitz is about Israel. So he's not
gonna fucking he's not gonna out, he's not gonna bring
it up. He's gonna tell Epstein, listen, don't say anything
about Massad to these guys. They'll charge you with espionage.
(05:41):
Don't ever bring that. And I'm not going to bring
it up. And you're not going to bring it up.
That's not a negotiating tactic. My client is a spy
is never a negotiating tactic.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Tactic.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
But but Dershwitz will eat it because he likely is
in the same boat as Epstein. See, these guys are
not about America. They're about and we're about something else.
And so Israel first, et cetera. So Dershowitz is full
of shit because whether he knew or whether he didn't know,
(06:12):
he'd either have to tell the Feds where you have
to cover it up. And he and he covered it up,
playing and simple because with Dershowitz's connections, he would already
know that and he wouldn't have to hear it from
his client that he was linked to Masade. Give me
a break where I mean, where where does the money
(06:32):
come from? And all this? Yeah, anyway, Yeah, go ahead,
I interrupted you.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
No, No, you didn't know. I wanted to talk about
that because because it's just you know, it just points
out that I mean I could see, like, you know,
people be like, you know, what's so important about this story?
You know, because you're like, oh god, you spend so
much time on this, right, And the same thing with
the Russia Gates stuff, right, And I mean, I mean
I know I got absorbed in that when that was
(06:59):
going on, and I was even you know, saying to myself, like, God,
what a look at the like a year of your life,
you know, you can't get back, you know, chasing that
that thing and and this stuff gets drummed up again,
you know, and and so much of it. I guess
you could argue with, hey, it's just a distraction because
while EVERLCE is going on, you know, eos are getting
(07:21):
you know, signed off on other stuff's getting pushed through,
right and you and and yet everybody goes, oh, here
we go again. Everybody we don't want to pay want
to pay attention to Peyton Place and see what's going
on with the main actors again, and what's the next storyline?
And da da da da da. But this one is really,
like you said, it's got layers and it's got shipping.
It that really has you know, not probably not come out,
(07:43):
and it's been you know, I don't know where you
think it's going or whatever. You may not want to
say now right, and you've got to plan and what
you're doing with all this. But I mean it is
very I gotta admit it is interesting right at this
point because you've come up with some real interesting points
that you know, people you know that's that came back.
But it's like, yeah, but it's not in the news
(08:04):
at the moment, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
I told people like I started, I think I talked
about it. This is probably weeks ago at this point.
I talked about it two or three days and people
are like, oh, come on, we're going to do this,
and I said, you don't understand. This is a massive story.
It's not going away. That was weeks ago. It's only
going to get bigger because it cuts to the bone
(08:29):
really of good versus evil and and what Trump is
trying to do. It's it's very interesting. He's trying to
be like the pedo pioneer. He's trying to push the
line because he's got all these these futurists around him,
these weirdos and uh, and he's he's probably I think
he's probably a little bit of a you know, a
pervert himself and things like that. So he kind of
(08:49):
gravitates to these these people who I mean, you can
tell who he gravitates towards.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
This guy?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I mean, does this guy have one good friend? See,
that's like another thing for me. I'm like, if I
was president, I'd have my buddies around. A couple of
my buddies for like, we've been buddies forty forty five years.
This guy doesn't that anybody like that. It's very talent.
There's not one fucking guy that he hasn't torched.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah, and people don't look at that. It's like, hey,
your where's your friend from fucking childhood? Where your childhood
friends at? Where are your college boys at? Where you're none? Nobody,
not one fucking guy nobody.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, okay, yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
But I knew that because he listens to these people
and they're like, listen, listen. You know, in twenty twenty
seventy five, the age of consent is going to be twelve,
and it's it's going to happen and nothing that can
be done is going to stop it. And he probably
(09:54):
listens to these psychos like it's going to be twelve
or thirteen or fourteen, and and then he goes out,
you know, these guys aren't so bad.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
It's like, dude, you're not gonna leap frog fifty fucking
years because you have a bunch of idiots listening to
you and following you. It doesn't work that way. It
might work that way on Twitter with the you know,
the way the way you design things, but you can't
fucking leap frog three generations of and just erace Christianity overnight.
So I knew this is gonna be a big story.
(10:28):
It was a big story, especially this time because they
said it wasn't a big story. They said this guy
and then they came out, And when he came out
and said it's a hoax, I was like, oh, Fuck,
this guy is just burying himself. It's crazy to watch.
And I'm thinking, I don't think he's all there.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, so hold that thought, Yeah, go finishly, stay but
hold that crazy thought because I wanted to bring that up.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Go ahead, uh And and people kept saying, well, yeah,
there's a seems like there's very very large number of
people upset. And I said, it's upset because it cuts
to the to the fucking core of the country. Are
you a Christian? Are you? And and even if you're
not religious, okay, because there's a lot of people I
(11:14):
don't believe in religion. I okay, cool, But do you
consider yourself a good human being?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah? You're morally yeah, I mean you have some right.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
And if you do right, if you do consider yourself that,
and you are that, you'll be disgusted by what's going
on in front of you and be have to fucking
have some kind of a reaction to it. And and
even and even when the evil Crew they dig in,
they dig in, they dig in. What that does too,
(11:47):
I'm sure there's all kind of psychological fucking names for
it and stuff, But what it does to people who
are very steadfast in their own morals and scruples and mores.
They say, you know what, now I even believe it more.
I'm even more stronger. I feel stronger in my stance
(12:07):
because you are protesting so loud, and you are fighting back,
and you are denying, denying, denying, and then the line
between good and evil may have been blurry, then it
becomes really really definitive, and it's very black and white.
Well it used to be blurry or gray is now
black and white. And you're just dug in and you know,
(12:29):
and now it's going to take a mountain to movie
your ass. And that's where we are. That's where we are.
That's why it's not going away. That's why Advance Yes
last night had a dinner with all the top people
in the administration and and Trash Battel was there, and
it was a you know, it was a a session
(12:53):
to figure out how to make this go away. That's
what that's what the administration is doing. And they came
up with the genius idea that the that they would
lean on Joe Rogan to sway people to make it
go away. So Joe Rogan is supposed to come out
and say it's not so bad man, you and we'll
see if we'll see if Rogan actually does that. That's
(13:15):
the big takeaway that they had from their pervert summit.
And and good people out here that will work in right,
and parents and grandparents and you know, And we have
a couple of people who contacted me and they said, Mike,
my grand my grandkids are asking me questions about this.
What do I tell him? I said, you tell them
exactly what you would tell them in any other situation,
(13:40):
and the way they were raised, the way you were raised,
you tell them this. This is ridiculous. This is fucking
not right, and it's bullshit. And anytime that you sell
or trade or treat human beings as property, and especially
you target poor people, rich people targeting poor people and
use them as playthings, it's not fucking right. And rich
(14:02):
people defending it and and uh, politicians defending it and
whoever defends it, it doesn't make it fucking right. So
there's a very definitive line. They've done themselves a massive
disservice by making the line. Now again, they've taken the
line from gray, and they've taken a line from blurry,
(14:23):
and it's no longer blurry, and it's no longer gray.
It's very black and white, and people are dug in
and and they're saying, you know what, we put up
with a lot of shit from you fucking assholes. We
pay the freight every time you come up with some
bullshit tariffs, a tax. So you say we have tax breaks,
We don't have tax breaks, tax increases, tax here, tax there,
(14:43):
state tax, local tax, hotel tax, gas tax. Right, we
put up with it. But this is the line, fuck you.
And maybe the line will be gone one hundred years
from now, but it's not gone fucking now. Does that
make any sense?
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, perfectly good sense. And I think that's
what and that's exactly it. I mean, they're trying to
normalize perversion, right, and his entourage, as you put it, uh,
is a collection of fruits and nuts and and so yeah,
and so he's obviously being uh, you know, advised by
(15:19):
these clowns or or or somebody is running you know,
or keeping him in the dark and then coming out
or however all that happens. You know, I have no idea, right,
I've never been in the White House. Who they all knows,
but you hear stories all the time. I don't want
the president. No, this guy in the cabinet was running
around and you know, keeping him in the dark or whatever.
And I'm sure that happens, right, but but yes, but
(15:41):
when you were talking about that, no, no, this is
this is that thing. I mean, and this is all
like you said, I know, people you know, like I
know you said, listen, either you know you're on the
side of evil, You're not. People go like, wait a minute, wait,
you can't pull me into that that that's just too
black and white. But to your whole point is it's like, no,
you know, this is this is it? I mean, how
(16:01):
much shit can you take? You know? I mean, like,
like you said, like this is if you can, if
you can somehow neutralize this in your mind as being okay,
somewhat sort of okay, it's not you know, and uh
you know trust me, you know, I mean I've seen
(16:21):
some of these nuts growing up as a kid. Right.
I talked about it to you once before I left
the message once. Right, It's like you know, you're like
you're like, yeah, you know, the next thing, you know,
the guy in your paper routes like fucking put his
hand on you know. And I mean, so these people
are all over the place. I mean some of the
some of the creepers in the school system. When my
kids went to school, they'd come home and I'd be like,
what is going on here? Right? And uh, you know what,
(16:44):
eventually they caught up with him. You know, they they
didn't make a big bus out of it, but you know,
they left or they got told to leave, you know,
and you're going like, you know, you can spot that
one hundred miles away, and yeah, so it's it's it's
a shame that this is the way he lived. But
and then the other thing too, is right, somehow I
got on a uh uh you know, uh school, the
(17:07):
school system, right, and uh, you know, thank God to
you know, history books and or propaganda books and all
that stuff. I somehow believe that after the Civil War
you know, was finished, slavery didn't exist any right. I mean,
you know, you walk around what what.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
That would you say? The Civil War didn't happen?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
No? No, no, I'm saying I'm saying, you know, like
you kind of like I'm speaking for myself here, right,
I mean, other people be like, no, I didn't think
that at all. But I'm saying, you leave school and
like you know, the messages is that, you know, the
United States is this great thing and after the after
the Civil Wars, slavery didn't exist in the world anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
You would ask Maria about the Civil War. The Maria
was his nurse. He took He took a fucking cannonball
on the shoulder.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
But maybe did the hip. Maybe that's how the hip
got tellin. Yeah, I think the hip was a log
or something. He slipped on a log.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Or slip he was working apps in Gettysburg.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah. But but what I was saying was, you know,
then you come to find it out as you get older, right,
You're like, and you start reading stuff, You're like, oh
my god, it's always been a thing, right, I mean
it's always there's always been this underbelly of this kind
of thing going on. And then you go like, you know,
I mean this is true evil world.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I mean that this is the fucking axis of evil.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Man. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
This, I mean, this is everything you were taught. It's
almost one hundred and seventy nine hundred and eighty degree
different differences. Yeah, if we used to do in other
places and they're still doing, but you know, we used
to do stuff, And I'm like, this is fucking this
is kind of fucked up. How does this benefit us?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Benefits?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Of course, when you send your kid off to some
foreign land as a soldier, how does that benefit you
or the United States? It doesn't. It's like some rich,
fucking assholes proxy war for X, y Z or what's
it for this time? Drugs or oil or money or weapons.
It's what the fuck is going on here? You know
what I mean?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, yeah, And I mean I can't believe that. You know,
I was saying this to my wife the other day.
I said, when I was in high school, I remember
the history teacher had us watch the I think there's
a debate between Carter and Reagan. Yeah right, and it was.
(19:41):
It was. And I remember even at that age, I
wasn't you know, but I didn't live in a political
household or anything. I mean, I didn't live in much
of a household at all to begin with. You know,
this is crazy, you know, let's not go there. But
my point is, it was like we were sitting around
the dinner table talking about politics at night. Let's put
that way. And you know, and I'm going like you
to form your own ideas and I'm going you know,
(20:03):
I can definitely. I don't like this Carter guy, that's
for sure. You know, I don't like the fact what's
going on. But we were being you know, gassed with
back then with the whole Iran thing, right, and this
is the hostages, right and every all back going on? Right?
Then then you come full circle and what was that
thing you and Maria have been talking about? Nancy and
I watched The Octopus Files or something like that on
(20:24):
the Netflix with that one investigative journalist you've mentioned his
name before, you know who he is. He was digging
into that whole uh stuff helped me out here. I
don't it's cold to.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Talk about your fucking out now, you must. I thought
I was listening to Man the Octopus Now it was
crazy mushrooms and I was on an octopus man.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
No, No, it was I'm getting the title bit wrong.
It was like it was an investigative series that it
was about a journalist that eventually they found that I'm
suicided in a motel room and like in West Virginia somewhere.
Really he was, yeah, he was digging it. You know,
the guy's name.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I don't fucking remember everything who was it.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I can't trust me. I'm in the same boat as
you are. I have seen your moments. It's like you're like,
I know I exact.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I don't even wake up until ten o'clock at night
in the afternoon.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Anyway, the point was was in that show, even though
it was about this, it started with this soccer program
that got stolen from this guy. That was that the
I R. S Or the Treasury Department stole from this company, right,
and it was the beginning of invasive financial technology, like
looking into you know, people's business. And this guy had
(21:56):
worked for the government, right, and then, so he was
chasing this angle because what happened was there was a uh, hold.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
On, hold on for a second. Brother, Yeah, yeah, Hey,
I'm on air with Wayward Son. Yes and yeah. He
says hell. She says hello, Hello. He's saying something like
you and I talked about some investigative show called the
Octopus Files or something, and some dude was a journalist
(22:25):
and he was killed. He committed suicide in West Virginia.
What's he talking about?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
I don't know. Oh, come on, I will when I
get off here with you. I don't come on. My
memory is not sparking.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Well, you guys can't hear each other, so convey to
me what you were saying. And now conveyed to Maria.
Maybe no sparker memory, go.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Ahead, teller. Tellor was on. It was Netflix series Netflix Sands.
And it was like a short couple of parts series.
It was only on in the last two years. A
couple of.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Parts series, last couple of years. Yeah, what else?
Speaker 1 (23:03):
And and and the journalist was looking into some corruption
that went down in and around the DC, DC area.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Into a corruption went down in the DC area. Was
trying to find.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
What what was it? What was the journalists name? It's
like Daniel something, you guys both Daniel.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
What was a cat's name, Dan something? Daniel? Remember we
talked about this stunder. No, you're still there a rear,
did you?
Speaker 1 (23:34):
No? No, I'm here.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
I'm trying to think. This is a this is a
triple senior moment. It's fucking incredible. It's awesome. No. I
mean one of the series you had me watch a
while ago had to do with the son of Sam.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I remember that one.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
That was personal, that wasn't professional, that was just personal.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Oh darn it. A few more clues, maybe I can
google it up.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
If it was on Netflix, you was on Netflix. Put
just put a few of his keywords into search and
see what comes up. Well, thanks, Alexa.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Any listen, it's a curate.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Any words he's throwing at you, put in search. Okay.
If something, uh jogs your memory, call me back Marie. Okay.
And it had to do with a journalist in Virginia
supposedly committed suicide. Is that what happens? Well, he wound
he wound up dead, with wound up deadst Virginia.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, he was like from the Virginia, Maryland, Maryland, I'm
on it.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Okay, Yeah, all right, cool, see.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
You anyway, Sorry I brought that up, but yeah, but
my point was was that.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
You better be a show buddy, or yeah you have
to you know, yeah, we have to get you checked out.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Man. Yeah. No. So so if my wife was, if
my I was here, she just ran out with my
daughter to do something. But if she was, she would remember.
But the point was Mike I was saying, was because
it all ties back to Iran contrast. So what what
he had discovered was was that during his investigation, he
had discovered he started to unravel a whole bunch of stuff, right,
(25:19):
and it just goes back and he and and this
guy that was involved in this software product, he wound
up funding the money to Reagan to shut the Iranians off,
and and and he bribed.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Them after the elections.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yes, yes, the Castelaro Castelero.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Okay, I got you.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah yeah yeah. So so I was just saying yeah, yeah, okay, okay, yeah,
yeah yeah. That was that was for me. That was
like like I'm going like you know, in high school
and thinking like, you know, oh, well, you know, this
is what's go went on. The news is saying, right,
(26:01):
and then there was all this you know, thought that
they were holding you know, like there was something being
held back, right, And there was a lot of controversy
around it at the time.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
The Netflix docuseries is titled American Conspiracy The Octopus Murders.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
That's it. The murder Yeah wow, yeah worth watching.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Well, you know this cat, I don't know if I
should say this, but no, I won't say well, I'll
tell you off air. But yeah, this guy they ruled
it he died by suicide, but he had been slash
like a dozen times or something. It's risk like that
(26:46):
got up like a hey, yeah, did we get all
the blood out yet slash it again?
Speaker 1 (26:51):
It's crazy?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, Like, didn't you say something about some guy yesterday
that died by suicide but he had two bullets, you know,
it was two shots as like said, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, Garry web Vince Roster too, he had two shots. Yeah,
it's pretty good. But you're really telling what You're a
really bad shot. You should have killed yourself two shots.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Ye. But but but it's just funny because if you
watch that show, and I need to go back maybe
and watch it if I have some interest in needing to,
you know, see that again or whatever. But it was
just interesting because they it just brought up the simple
fact that even back in the eighties, everybody was chomping
(27:40):
at the bit to get some sort of surveillance software,
you know, and and here we are, you know, now
fast forward all these forty years later and you know
you've got nothing, but all the agency is now trying
to interconnect and uh, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Here's what happened with with Castilaro. Yeah, now that you're
see the thing that throws me off is his name
is Joe. Oh yeah, yeah, but he went by Daniel
as well. Daniel was so he went by Danny Castilaro.
But anyway, anyway, here's what happened to him, same thing
(28:23):
that happened to Gary Webb. And I've been in these
cases and and you're coming across roads, and here's here's
what happens. You get on a story, and if you're
tenacious enough, you're like, holy fuck, this is like bagging
Moby Dick. You're like, holy shit, I'm in a little
(28:45):
boat and I done fucking harpoon this whale. Now what?
And you don't get much support from anybody, No one,
fucking First of all, no one believes you. Even the
people you work for, they think you're nuts.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah. His family started to think he was crazy.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Of course. And you are crazy because you have bagged
Moby Dick and you're in a rowboat and you have
no fucking chance of landing Moby Dick if you don't
get some help from somebody. And it's called being in
over your head, and it will fucking destroy you. It
destroyed Gary Webb, it destroyed this guy. And sometimes what
(29:25):
you gotta do is you got to walk the fuck away. Yeah, otherwise,
and you know what this happens with young journalists. This
is like the kryptonite for young journalists. They get on
a great story like this and they're not wise enough
(29:45):
and old enough, and they have nobody to pull them
aside and say, dude, this is gonna be your last
story ever. Settle the fuck down. If you want to
do something right, take your time. Maybe we get your
publishing contract and do a book. But slow the fuck
(30:07):
down and back off a little bit and see if
you can get some support. Maybe you get a publishing contract,
you know, uh, and you can make something out of this,
and maybe you make it into a It goes to
a TV, it goes to a movie. You put money
in your pocket. But as far as you change in
the world, Clark Kent, that ain't gonna happen, even though
(30:31):
you think it is, even though you've when you bring
this motherfucking what you're thinking when you bring when I
bring this whale to shore, people are going to say,
how the fuck that we not know that this whale
was so big? Well, you never get the whale to shore. See,
that's that's the thing. And you get in over your
head and then you know you don't know, you don't know,
(30:53):
and then that your family thinks you're nuts because a
good report order is one thing, but a great reporter
is very rare. A guy like we're talking about, right, Yeah,
Danny Cassillaro and Gary Webb, those guys are gems. They're
(31:17):
fucking probably one in a million that have the tenacity.
They just won't let it go, right Yeah. And the
problem is it's almost like a road to ruin. And
the family members, even your closest family members, into where
your spouse is, they'll say, Wow, this guy's fucking crazy
(31:41):
because I want to let this alone a long time ago,
one roadblock after another, and he doesn't get the picture.
He's nuts. He's not fucking nuts. He's a professional, he's
a consummate fucking professional. But he doesn't understand that he's
ruining his entire fucking life chasing story. I've been through this, man,
I've chased people. I've chased fucking and it doesn't have
(32:06):
to be the CIA, it doesn't have to be Iran contract.
It could be a police chief, it could be uh anything,
you know. And yeah, when they push back, when you're
chasing him and they push back, you know, like they'll
show up like we know what you're doing. You better
watch you r ask You're like, oh, motherfucker, you just
fueled me. I was running a little low and now
(32:26):
now now I'm fucking good to go because now I
know I'm onto something and it's like it's it's the
damnedest thing. Yeah, and no one listens, even if he
like blew I mean, Gary Webb already blew the thing up,
but you know, uh, and nobody cared. And now people
are talking about it. But the guy, that's what his
(32:48):
life was worth, so you could talk about his story
forty years later. Wow, wow, it's uh, yeah, I think
I can't change the world, man, you can't. Like my
thing was, you know, let's let's try to reach some
(33:09):
people and we can maybe change their world. But I
can't change the fucking world, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah, well that's just it, you know. And yeah and yeah,
so no, I mean that you make some good points there,
and you know, look at you know, the world. The
world needs people like those guys, right, And I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Gonna say instead of mobile dick, Oprah beached whale. But
she was already on shore. Dude, she was already beached.
So I backed off. Yeah, anyway, but.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I want one thing I did want to mention was
you know, you you were on a roll one or
two a week ago or so on one of one
or two shows, and I had sent you a note
and you were just talking and you're like, I got
a lot of feedback on this, and it was talking
about you know, the uh, the.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
You're gonna say before you know, before you say, you're
going to talk about rich parents who fucking who stiffed
their kids. It's crazy. It's the craziest thing I've seen
in my entire life. It's like, holy shit, that's fucking crazy.
Like you look at Haul Cogan, right, Yeah, he stiffed
(34:35):
his daughter, didn't give her a dime, and the daughter
helped him through the years, was like working with him
and stuff, and I guess they didn't get along or something.
So when he died. I mean, this is a death thing,
not a life thing. But yeah, it's like you didn't
give her any money, nothing, she got nothing. Oh okay,
(34:56):
Like what the fuck is the matter with? It says
a lot about the person, right, Yeah, their death. You
know a lot of these folks when they die, it
says all you need to know about their lives. You
don't have to read the obituary. You didn't get you to
give your kids anything. What's the matter with you? You know,
it's crazy. But the ones who are alive and they
don't help their kids, that's to me, that's stuff. I
(35:18):
watched it with my in laws. Yeah, with myself and
my wife and my boys. Well, we weren't doing so well,
and the Feds were coming for us. They were like,
my mother in law was actually fucking happy. I told
you that he was on the edge, you know, this
kind of thing. And I'm like, all right, bitch, all right, bitch,
that's cool. And they got the means to help us.
(35:38):
And then I told my wife I wouldn't take a
fucking dime from them. Fuck them.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
And yeah, and you know what, my because, like I said,
you know, I didn't have their in your predicament. But
that's how you got this whole conversation going. But I
look back and I'm going like, you know, I'm not complaining,
I'm just saying, but when you don't come from much,
(36:02):
And it wasn't like I didn't have, you know, a
meal or whatever. I couldn't get to school or something. Right,
I don't make it sound like it, but there was
a point in my life when I was hit about
twenty and I was completely on my own that I
would say, I was flat out for no doubt about it.
And and that's a humbling you know, that's a humbling
circumstance to be in it. And I was that way
(36:24):
for a while, even though I was working, you know,
and going to school, you know, just trying to rub
two nickels together. But I will say this much. You know,
it would have been nice if somebody had been able
to help us for one reason or the other. And
I would argue that maybe there was the means. I
don't mean, you know, like tons of stuff like buy
me a ouse, or some buy me an expensive car,
(36:46):
you know, you know, but I never we never were
offered and we never asked anybody for anything. So we
bootstrapped everything ourselves. So that's the one thing I can say,
you know, I'm and it's like at least at least
I don't owe anybody, and uh, you know, some big favorite.
But yeah, it's just just amazing. I think I told you.
(37:08):
I don't want to say too much about it because
it'll be on the air, but you know, I had
recently had a relative I had emailed you that you
know that that little note and I wish them a
happy birthday, right and and and their big thing was
they were put off because JD Vance is in town
and it was disrupting their birthday pleasures, you know. And
(37:32):
it was just like, you know, it's just the world
you live it, you know, it's like it's like it's
like you know, to the Toda, you know whatever you
know and uh, you know, you know, pseudo elite, you know,
kind of nonsense surrounding yourself at all that you know,
Tony Boloney Craft and yeah, and so it is something
(37:52):
you know. And and then here I am going like,
you know, well, I given my personal circums, you know,
you know, with what happened on my work, and it's
that and the kids having a baby. You know, I
would have thought at this age I would have been
in a much better position to help them out, you know,
but I can't as much. You know, it's not like
we didn't do anything. But even even though you know,
(38:14):
we you do what you can. And uh, but it was,
it was it was an interesting topic. And I was
surprised you got so much feedback on it because we've
noticed that it is a generational thing, you know, we've
got some older friends and uh uh and you know,
when when you start to realize, like, like what what's
(38:34):
consuming their time? And you know, what's the what are
their so called problems? Many times they seem to be
you know, quite superficial, I guess, is what I'm saying
right and relative to the rest of the world. And
uh so it is what it is. But it was
but it was an interesting uh thing. And uh I
think I shared with you a couple of examples of
(38:54):
you know, of all of that. But yeah, so well
we could table that, but I didn't want to forget
about bringing that up. But what I what I wanted
to ask you about is, yeah, you know you said
something about you know, Vans and the tell and you
know them trying to come up with this whole thing,
and then the whole thing. What do you think about
(39:15):
all of a sudden talk in the last couple of days.
Maybe it's been longer than that, but it's certainly caught
my attention about you know, Trump being crazy, dementia, walking
on the roof of the White House and all that crap.
Did you see that?
Speaker 2 (39:33):
I don't even there's some stuff You're just like, I
don't even was that real, that can't be real, right,
And it turns out it's real.
It's so funny. We arrived yesterday. Now my daughter she's too,
she's always been, you know, slimp both kids are slim,
and uh, thank god. And uh but we tried to
teach him to eat right, you know, when they were
younger kids, and and so, uh it's probably more genetics
than anything else. But you know, they they've kept it
(00:22):
down right, so that's a good thing. But she uh,
I mean she's really big right now, right, and and
you know, when you're a sinner person, you know. Even
the doctor was like, he said, oh, you're pregnant, and
he's like, well, you know, what was your previous wage,
Like she told him and he's like, oh wow, He's
(00:42):
like you really are getting big here, right, so big?
So yeah, yeah, yeah, but but you know, it's such
a joyous time. And I mean, I'm going to myself
like wow, you know, it's like you're here to see this,
you know, you're here to and you know people this,
(01:05):
people that you know that the reason we're down here
is the wedding, not the way the baby shower. Uh.
Just on the weekend, and are.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
You doing anything so that she don't have to do
a damn thing?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Do you? Uh? No, no, not really, No, I'm not invited. Yeah,
my wife's got a lot to do, she's got a
lot of running around and yeah yeah, and uh and
Nancy is really good that way. I mean I could
just she has been. I could just see the joy
in her face.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Well what are you going to be doing when this
is going on? Like you're not even allowed in the building.
It's like you're sometimes you know.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Who knows. I'll probably I'll find something to do. But
they're they're they're they're doing it at at my uh
the in law's house. Uh so yeah, yeah, they're good.
They're good people.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
If not what you're calling an ice ray, let.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Me tell you man. Oh yeah, I I I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So crazy you came to make it up the governments?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, hey, you know, look at if they if they
want to if they want to hire me. Uh you know,
I might be so desperate to take a job at
this point, but you know who wants to get mixed
up with this crew? Right?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Like you say, I say, we we take jobs, we
get Bronco, we get VM and then we just don't
show up and then we file grievances.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Right for sexual discrimination.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Discriminated against us man.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
God, you know, I you know, we were talking about
different things here. I don't know if you have anything
you wanted to cover specifically or mentioned, but uh, go ahead.
Uh you know, like I was just this morning, I
didn't get to listen to the whole show, uh this
morning because I kept getting interrupted because of all the activity,
(03:05):
not being home, you know, and my shoulder had to
leave for work and stuff. So uh but but I
love this here. I just jotted this down. You you
were talking about josher Witz and this whole nonsense, right
and and you were talking about you know, the masad
thing and uh and and it's like you were saying,
like if you're a lawyer, and I just picked it
(03:26):
up in the middle, It's like it's like, uh, you know,
you're not going to go down and seams of my client.
You know, you're so fucking full of ship you'd run
like a bitch, you know, with your dick between your legs,
tucked between the back of your legs, uh, to the
fed you know, wag you know, telling them what was
really going on, you know. And I mean it's so true.
I mean I couldn't believe like you're saying, they drag
(03:47):
out this guy Solomon.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, he And I didn't want to say it on
the show, right because I talked about on Friday, because
I don't want to really put it. He's proving something
even worse than what I said. I was talking like
a normal defense attorney would be like, listen, this guy's
a fucking spy. I gotta you know. It's not protected
(04:12):
like criminal Here's here's how it works. Uh. And I
don't want to lose the original point, but here's how
it works. If you're defense attorney, you're defending your client
for the charges he or she is up against in
the past. If you know that they are conducting criminality
(04:33):
in the present or into the future, you can't protect that.
That's not work product. If defense come and ask you,
do you know that your client was engaged in espionage
after the indictment, so yeah, of course he was. There's
no there's no attorney client privilege to if you're conducting
criminality unless you have. The only really out of it
(04:57):
is if you have a cooperating agreement, uh, a CI
agreement with the federal government, which would allow you basically
to keep keep breaking the lots crazy. But here's the
thing with Dershwitz where he fucked up. He knew the
Massad connection because he brought it up, and he said, oh,
(05:19):
he wouldn't do this, he wouldn't do that. But here's
the thing, Dershowitz isn't gonna see. Dershowitz is not about
the United States. Derschwitz is about Israel. So he's not
gonna fucking he's not gonna out, he's not gonna bring
it up. He's gonna tell Epstein, listen, don't say anything
about Massad to these guys. They'll charge you with espionage.
(05:41):
Don't ever bring that. And I'm not going to bring
it up. And you're not going to bring it up.
That's not a negotiating tactic. My client is a spy
is never a negotiating tactic.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Tactic.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
But but Dershwitz will eat it because he likely is
in the same boat as Epstein. See, these guys are
not about America. They're about and we're about something else.
And so Israel first, et cetera. So Dershowitz is full
of shit because whether he knew or whether he didn't know,
(06:12):
he'd either have to tell the Feds where you have
to cover it up. And he and he covered it up,
playing and simple because with Dershowitz's connections, he would already
know that and he wouldn't have to hear it from
his client that he was linked to Masade. Give me
a break where I mean, where where does the money
(06:32):
come from? And all this? Yeah, anyway, Yeah, go ahead,
I interrupted you.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
No, No, you didn't know. I wanted to talk about
that because because it's just you know, it just points
out that I mean I could see, like, you know,
people be like, you know, what's so important about this story?
You know, because you're like, oh god, you spend so
much time on this, right, And the same thing with
the Russia Gates stuff, right, And I mean, I mean
I know I got absorbed in that when that was
(06:59):
going on, and I was even you know, saying to myself, like, God,
what a look at the like a year of your life,
you know, you can't get back, you know, chasing that
that thing and and this stuff gets drummed up again,
you know, and and so much of it. I guess
you could argue with, hey, it's just a distraction because
while EVERLCE is going on, you know, eos are getting
(07:21):
you know, signed off on other stuff's getting pushed through,
right and you and and yet everybody goes, oh, here
we go again. Everybody we don't want to pay want
to pay attention to Peyton Place and see what's going
on with the main actors again, and what's the next storyline?
And da da da da da. But this one is really,
like you said, it's got layers and it's got shipping.
It that really has you know, not probably not come out,
(07:43):
and it's been you know, I don't know where you
think it's going or whatever. You may not want to
say now right, and you've got to plan and what
you're doing with all this. But I mean it is
very I gotta admit it is interesting right at this
point because you've come up with some real interesting points
that you know, people you know that's that came back.
But it's like, yeah, but it's not in the news
(08:04):
at the moment, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
I told people like I started, I think I talked
about it. This is probably weeks ago at this point.
I talked about it two or three days and people
are like, oh, come on, we're going to do this,
and I said, you don't understand. This is a massive story.
It's not going away. That was weeks ago. It's only
going to get bigger because it cuts to the bone
(08:29):
really of good versus evil and and what Trump is
trying to do. It's it's very interesting. He's trying to
be like the pedo pioneer. He's trying to push the
line because he's got all these these futurists around him,
these weirdos and uh, and he's he's probably I think
he's probably a little bit of a you know, a
pervert himself and things like that. So he kind of
(08:49):
gravitates to these these people who I mean, you can
tell who he gravitates towards.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
This guy?
Speaker 2 (08:56):
I mean, does this guy have one good friend? See,
that's like another thing for me. I'm like, if I
was president, I'd have my buddies around. A couple of
my buddies for like, we've been buddies forty forty five years.
This guy doesn't that anybody like that. It's very talent.
There's not one fucking guy that he hasn't torched.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah, and people don't look at that. It's like, hey,
your where's your friend from fucking childhood? Where your childhood
friends at? Where are your college boys at? Where you're none? Nobody,
not one fucking guy nobody.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, okay, yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
But I knew that because he listens to these people
and they're like, listen, listen. You know, in twenty twenty
seventy five, the age of consent is going to be twelve,
and it's it's going to happen and nothing that can
be done is going to stop it. And he probably
(09:54):
listens to these psychos like it's going to be twelve
or thirteen or fourteen, and and then he goes out,
you know, these guys aren't so bad.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
It's like, dude, you're not gonna leap frog fifty fucking
years because you have a bunch of idiots listening to
you and following you. It doesn't work that way. It
might work that way on Twitter with the you know,
the way the way you design things, but you can't
fucking leap frog three generations of and just erace Christianity overnight.
So I knew this is gonna be a big story.
(10:28):
It was a big story, especially this time because they
said it wasn't a big story. They said this guy
and then they came out, And when he came out
and said it's a hoax, I was like, oh, Fuck,
this guy is just burying himself. It's crazy to watch.
And I'm thinking, I don't think he's all there.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, so hold that thought, Yeah, go finishly, stay but
hold that crazy thought because I wanted to bring that up.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Go ahead, uh And and people kept saying, well, yeah,
there's a seems like there's very very large number of
people upset. And I said, it's upset because it cuts
to the to the fucking core of the country. Are
you a Christian? Are you? And and even if you're
not religious, okay, because there's a lot of people I
(11:14):
don't believe in religion. I okay, cool, But do you
consider yourself a good human being?
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah? You're morally yeah, I mean you have some right.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
And if you do right, if you do consider yourself that,
and you are that, you'll be disgusted by what's going
on in front of you and be have to fucking
have some kind of a reaction to it. And and
even and even when the evil Crew they dig in,
they dig in, they dig in. What that does too,
(11:47):
I'm sure there's all kind of psychological fucking names for
it and stuff, But what it does to people who
are very steadfast in their own morals and scruples and mores.
They say, you know what, now I even believe it more.
I'm even more stronger. I feel stronger in my stance
(12:07):
because you are protesting so loud, and you are fighting back,
and you are denying, denying, denying, and then the line
between good and evil may have been blurry, then it
becomes really really definitive, and it's very black and white.
Well it used to be blurry or gray is now
black and white. And you're just dug in and you know,
(12:29):
and now it's going to take a mountain to movie
your ass. And that's where we are. That's where we are.
That's why it's not going away. That's why Advance Yes
last night had a dinner with all the top people
in the administration and and Trash Battel was there, and
it was a you know, it was a a session
(12:53):
to figure out how to make this go away. That's
what that's what the administration is doing. And they came
up with the genius idea that the that they would
lean on Joe Rogan to sway people to make it
go away. So Joe Rogan is supposed to come out
and say it's not so bad man, you and we'll
see if we'll see if Rogan actually does that. That's
(13:15):
the big takeaway that they had from their pervert summit.
And and good people out here that will work in right,
and parents and grandparents and you know, And we have
a couple of people who contacted me and they said, Mike,
my grand my grandkids are asking me questions about this.
What do I tell him? I said, you tell them
exactly what you would tell them in any other situation,
(13:40):
and the way they were raised, the way you were raised,
you tell them this. This is ridiculous. This is fucking
not right, and it's bullshit. And anytime that you sell
or trade or treat human beings as property, and especially
you target poor people, rich people targeting poor people and
use them as playthings, it's not fucking right. And rich
(14:02):
people defending it and and uh, politicians defending it and
whoever defends it, it doesn't make it fucking right. So
there's a very definitive line. They've done themselves a massive
disservice by making the line. Now again, they've taken the
line from gray, and they've taken a line from blurry,
(14:23):
and it's no longer blurry, and it's no longer gray.
It's very black and white, and people are dug in
and and they're saying, you know what, we put up
with a lot of shit from you fucking assholes. We
pay the freight every time you come up with some
bullshit tariffs, a tax. So you say we have tax breaks,
We don't have tax breaks, tax increases, tax here, tax there,
(14:43):
state tax, local tax, hotel tax, gas tax. Right, we
put up with it. But this is the line, fuck you.
And maybe the line will be gone one hundred years
from now, but it's not gone fucking now. Does that
make any sense?
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, perfectly good sense. And I think that's
what and that's exactly it. I mean, they're trying to
normalize perversion, right, and his entourage, as you put it, uh,
is a collection of fruits and nuts and and so yeah,
and so he's obviously being uh, you know, advised by
(15:19):
these clowns or or or somebody is running you know,
or keeping him in the dark and then coming out
or however all that happens. You know, I have no idea, right,
I've never been in the White House. Who they all knows,
but you hear stories all the time. I don't want
the president. No, this guy in the cabinet was running
around and you know, keeping him in the dark or whatever.
And I'm sure that happens, right, but but yes, but
(15:41):
when you were talking about that, no, no, this is
this is that thing. I mean, and this is all
like you said, I know, people you know, like I
know you said, listen, either you know you're on the
side of evil, You're not. People go like, wait a minute, wait,
you can't pull me into that that that's just too
black and white. But to your whole point is it's like, no,
you know, this is this is it? I mean, how
(16:01):
much shit can you take? You know? I mean, like,
like you said, like this is if you can, if
you can somehow neutralize this in your mind as being okay,
somewhat sort of okay, it's not you know, and uh
you know trust me, you know, I mean I've seen
(16:21):
some of these nuts growing up as a kid. Right.
I talked about it to you once before I left
the message once. Right, It's like you know, you're like
you're like, yeah, you know, the next thing, you know,
the guy in your paper routes like fucking put his
hand on you know. And I mean, so these people
are all over the place. I mean some of the
some of the creepers in the school system. When my
kids went to school, they'd come home and I'd be like,
what is going on here? Right? And uh, you know what,
(16:44):
eventually they caught up with him. You know, they they
didn't make a big bus out of it, but you know,
they left or they got told to leave, you know,
and you're going like, you know, you can spot that
one hundred miles away, and yeah, so it's it's it's
a shame that this is the way he lived. But
and then the other thing too, is right, somehow I
got on a uh uh you know, uh school, the
(17:07):
school system, right, and uh, you know, thank God to
you know, history books and or propaganda books and all
that stuff. I somehow believe that after the Civil War
you know, was finished, slavery didn't exist any right. I mean,
you know, you walk around what what.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
That would you say? The Civil War didn't happen?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
No? No, no, I'm saying I'm saying, you know, like
you kind of like I'm speaking for myself here, right,
I mean, other people be like, no, I didn't think
that at all. But I'm saying, you leave school and
like you know, the messages is that, you know, the
United States is this great thing and after the after
the Civil Wars, slavery didn't exist in the world anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
You would ask Maria about the Civil War. The Maria
was his nurse. He took He took a fucking cannonball
on the shoulder.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
But maybe did the hip. Maybe that's how the hip
got tellin. Yeah, I think the hip was a log
or something. He slipped on a log.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Or slip he was working apps in Gettysburg.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah. But but what I was saying was, you know,
then you come to find it out as you get older, right,
You're like, and you start reading stuff, You're like, oh
my god, it's always been a thing, right, I mean
it's always there's always been this underbelly of this kind
of thing going on. And then you go like, you know,
I mean this is true evil world.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I mean that this is the fucking axis of evil.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Man. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
This, I mean, this is everything you were taught. It's
almost one hundred and seventy nine hundred and eighty degree
different differences. Yeah, if we used to do in other
places and they're still doing, but you know, we used
to do stuff, And I'm like, this is fucking this
is kind of fucked up. How does this benefit us?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Benefits?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Of course, when you send your kid off to some
foreign land as a soldier, how does that benefit you
or the United States? It doesn't. It's like some rich,
fucking assholes proxy war for X, y Z or what's
it for this time? Drugs or oil or money or weapons.
It's what the fuck is going on here? You know
what I mean?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, yeah, And I mean I can't believe that. You know,
I was saying this to my wife the other day.
I said, when I was in high school, I remember
the history teacher had us watch the I think there's
a debate between Carter and Reagan. Yeah right, and it was.
(19:41):
It was. And I remember even at that age, I
wasn't you know, but I didn't live in a political
household or anything. I mean, I didn't live in much
of a household at all to begin with. You know,
this is crazy, you know, let's not go there. But
my point is, it was like we were sitting around
the dinner table talking about politics at night. Let's put
that way. And you know, and I'm going like you
to form your own ideas and I'm going you know,
(20:03):
I can definitely. I don't like this Carter guy, that's
for sure. You know, I don't like the fact what's
going on. But we were being you know, gassed with
back then with the whole Iran thing, right, and this
is the hostages, right and every all back going on? Right?
Then then you come full circle and what was that
thing you and Maria have been talking about? Nancy and
I watched The Octopus Files or something like that on
(20:24):
the Netflix with that one investigative journalist you've mentioned his
name before, you know who he is. He was digging
into that whole uh stuff helped me out here. I
don't it's cold to.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Talk about your fucking out now, you must. I thought
I was listening to Man the Octopus Now it was
crazy mushrooms and I was on an octopus man.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
No, No, it was I'm getting the title bit wrong.
It was like it was an investigative series that it
was about a journalist that eventually they found that I'm
suicided in a motel room and like in West Virginia somewhere.
Really he was, yeah, he was digging it. You know,
the guy's name.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I don't fucking remember everything who was it.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I can't trust me. I'm in the same boat as
you are. I have seen your moments. It's like you're like,
I know I exact.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I don't even wake up until ten o'clock at night
in the afternoon.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Anyway, the point was was in that show, even though
it was about this, it started with this soccer program
that got stolen from this guy. That was that the
I R. S Or the Treasury Department stole from this company, right,
and it was the beginning of invasive financial technology, like
looking into you know, people's business. And this guy had
(21:56):
worked for the government, right, and then, so he was
chasing this angle because what happened was there was a uh, hold.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
On, hold on for a second. Brother, Yeah, yeah, Hey,
I'm on air with Wayward Son. Yes and yeah. He
says hell. She says hello, Hello. He's saying something like
you and I talked about some investigative show called the
Octopus Files or something, and some dude was a journalist
(22:25):
and he was killed. He committed suicide in West Virginia.
What's he talking about?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
I don't know. Oh, come on, I will when I
get off here with you. I don't come on. My
memory is not sparking.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Well, you guys can't hear each other, so convey to
me what you were saying. And now conveyed to Maria.
Maybe no sparker memory, go.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Ahead, teller. Tellor was on. It was Netflix series Netflix Sands.
And it was like a short couple of parts series.
It was only on in the last two years. A
couple of.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Parts series, last couple of years. Yeah, what else?
Speaker 1 (23:03):
And and and the journalist was looking into some corruption
that went down in and around the DC, DC area.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Into a corruption went down in the DC area. Was
trying to find.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
What what was it? What was the journalists name? It's
like Daniel something, you guys both Daniel.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
What was a cat's name, Dan something? Daniel? Remember we
talked about this stunder. No, you're still there a rear,
did you?
Speaker 1 (23:34):
No? No, I'm here.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
I'm trying to think. This is a this is a
triple senior moment. It's fucking incredible. It's awesome. No. I
mean one of the series you had me watch a
while ago had to do with the son of Sam.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I remember that one.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
That was personal, that wasn't professional, that was just personal.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Oh darn it. A few more clues, maybe I can
google it up.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
If it was on Netflix, you was on Netflix. Put
just put a few of his keywords into search and
see what comes up. Well, thanks, Alexa.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Any listen, it's a curate.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Any words he's throwing at you, put in search. Okay.
If something, uh jogs your memory, call me back Marie. Okay.
And it had to do with a journalist in Virginia
supposedly committed suicide. Is that what happens? Well, he wound
he wound up dead, with wound up deadst Virginia.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, he was like from the Virginia, Maryland, Maryland, I'm
on it.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Okay, Yeah, all right, cool, see.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
You anyway, Sorry I brought that up, but yeah, but
my point was was that.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
You better be a show buddy, or yeah you have
to you know, yeah, we have to get you checked out.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Man. Yeah. No. So so if my wife was, if
my I was here, she just ran out with my
daughter to do something. But if she was, she would remember.
But the point was Mike I was saying, was because
it all ties back to Iran contrast. So what what
he had discovered was was that during his investigation, he
had discovered he started to unravel a whole bunch of stuff, right,
(25:19):
and it just goes back and he and and this
guy that was involved in this software product, he wound
up funding the money to Reagan to shut the Iranians off,
and and and he bribed.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Them after the elections.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yes, yes, the Castelaro Castelero.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Okay, I got you.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah yeah yeah. So so I was just saying yeah, yeah, okay, okay, yeah,
yeah yeah. That was that was for me. That was
like like I'm going like you know, in high school
and thinking like, you know, oh, well, you know, this
is what's go went on. The news is saying, right,
(26:01):
and then there was all this you know, thought that
they were holding you know, like there was something being
held back, right, And there was a lot of controversy
around it at the time.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
The Netflix docuseries is titled American Conspiracy The Octopus Murders.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
That's it. The murder Yeah wow, yeah worth watching.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Well, you know this cat, I don't know if I
should say this, but no, I won't say well, I'll
tell you off air. But yeah, this guy they ruled
it he died by suicide, but he had been slash
like a dozen times or something. It's risk like that
(26:46):
got up like a hey, yeah, did we get all
the blood out yet slash it again?
Speaker 1 (26:51):
It's crazy?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, Like, didn't you say something about some guy yesterday
that died by suicide but he had two bullets, you know,
it was two shots as like said, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, Garry web Vince Roster too, he had two shots. Yeah,
it's pretty good. But you're really telling what You're a
really bad shot. You should have killed yourself two shots.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Ye. But but but it's just funny because if you
watch that show, and I need to go back maybe
and watch it if I have some interest in needing to,
you know, see that again or whatever. But it was
just interesting because they it just brought up the simple
fact that even back in the eighties, everybody was chomping
(27:40):
at the bit to get some sort of surveillance software,
you know, and and here we are, you know, now
fast forward all these forty years later and you know
you've got nothing, but all the agency is now trying
to interconnect and uh, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Here's what happened with with Castilaro. Yeah, now that you're
see the thing that throws me off is his name
is Joe. Oh yeah, yeah, but he went by Daniel
as well. Daniel was so he went by Danny Castilaro.
But anyway, anyway, here's what happened to him, same thing
(28:23):
that happened to Gary Webb. And I've been in these
cases and and you're coming across roads, and here's here's
what happens. You get on a story, and if you're
tenacious enough, you're like, holy fuck, this is like bagging
Moby Dick. You're like, holy shit, I'm in a little
(28:45):
boat and I done fucking harpoon this whale. Now what?
And you don't get much support from anybody, No one,
fucking First of all, no one believes you. Even the
people you work for, they think you're nuts.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah. His family started to think he was crazy.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Of course. And you are crazy because you have bagged
Moby Dick and you're in a rowboat and you have
no fucking chance of landing Moby Dick if you don't
get some help from somebody. And it's called being in
over your head, and it will fucking destroy you. It
destroyed Gary Webb, it destroyed this guy. And sometimes what
(29:25):
you gotta do is you got to walk the fuck away. Yeah, otherwise,
and you know what this happens with young journalists. This
is like the kryptonite for young journalists. They get on
a great story like this and they're not wise enough
(29:45):
and old enough, and they have nobody to pull them
aside and say, dude, this is gonna be your last
story ever. Settle the fuck down. If you want to
do something right, take your time. Maybe we get your
publishing contract and do a book. But slow the fuck
(30:07):
down and back off a little bit and see if
you can get some support. Maybe you get a publishing contract,
you know, uh, and you can make something out of this,
and maybe you make it into a It goes to
a TV, it goes to a movie. You put money
in your pocket. But as far as you change in
the world, Clark Kent, that ain't gonna happen, even though
(30:31):
you think it is, even though you've when you bring
this motherfucking what you're thinking when you bring when I
bring this whale to shore, people are going to say,
how the fuck that we not know that this whale
was so big? Well, you never get the whale to shore. See,
that's that's the thing. And you get in over your
head and then you know you don't know, you don't know,
(30:53):
and then that your family thinks you're nuts because a
good report order is one thing, but a great reporter
is very rare. A guy like we're talking about, right, Yeah,
Danny Cassillaro and Gary Webb, those guys are gems. They're
(31:17):
fucking probably one in a million that have the tenacity.
They just won't let it go, right Yeah. And the
problem is it's almost like a road to ruin. And
the family members, even your closest family members, into where
your spouse is, they'll say, Wow, this guy's fucking crazy
(31:41):
because I want to let this alone a long time ago,
one roadblock after another, and he doesn't get the picture.
He's nuts. He's not fucking nuts. He's a professional, he's
a consummate fucking professional. But he doesn't understand that he's
ruining his entire fucking life chasing story. I've been through this, man,
I've chased people. I've chased fucking and it doesn't have
(32:06):
to be the CIA, it doesn't have to be Iran contract.
It could be a police chief, it could be uh anything,
you know. And yeah, when they push back, when you're
chasing him and they push back, you know, like they'll
show up like we know what you're doing. You better
watch you r ask You're like, oh, motherfucker, you just
fueled me. I was running a little low and now
(32:26):
now now I'm fucking good to go because now I
know I'm onto something and it's like it's it's the
damnedest thing. Yeah, and no one listens, even if he
like blew I mean, Gary Webb already blew the thing up,
but you know, uh, and nobody cared. And now people
are talking about it. But the guy, that's what his
(32:48):
life was worth, so you could talk about his story
forty years later. Wow, wow, it's uh, yeah, I think
I can't change the world, man, you can't. Like my
thing was, you know, let's let's try to reach some
(33:09):
people and we can maybe change their world. But I
can't change the fucking world, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Yeah, well that's just it, you know. And yeah and yeah,
so no, I mean that you make some good points there,
and you know, look at you know, the world. The
world needs people like those guys, right, And I wasn't.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Gonna say instead of mobile dick, Oprah beached whale. But
she was already on shore. Dude, she was already beached.
So I backed off. Yeah, anyway, but.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I want one thing I did want to mention was
you know, you you were on a roll one or
two a week ago or so on one of one
or two shows, and I had sent you a note
and you were just talking and you're like, I got
a lot of feedback on this, and it was talking
about you know, the uh, the.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
You're gonna say before you know, before you say, you're
going to talk about rich parents who fucking who stiffed
their kids. It's crazy. It's the craziest thing I've seen
in my entire life. It's like, holy shit, that's fucking crazy.
Like you look at Haul Cogan, right, Yeah, he stiffed
(34:35):
his daughter, didn't give her a dime, and the daughter
helped him through the years, was like working with him
and stuff, and I guess they didn't get along or something.
So when he died. I mean, this is a death thing,
not a life thing. But yeah, it's like you didn't
give her any money, nothing, she got nothing. Oh okay,
(34:56):
Like what the fuck is the matter with? It says
a lot about the person, right, Yeah, their death. You
know a lot of these folks when they die, it
says all you need to know about their lives. You
don't have to read the obituary. You didn't get you to
give your kids anything. What's the matter with you? You know,
it's crazy. But the ones who are alive and they
don't help their kids, that's to me, that's stuff. I
(35:18):
watched it with my in laws. Yeah, with myself and
my wife and my boys. Well, we weren't doing so well,
and the Feds were coming for us. They were like,
my mother in law was actually fucking happy. I told
you that he was on the edge, you know, this
kind of thing. And I'm like, all right, bitch, all right, bitch,
that's cool. And they got the means to help us.
(35:38):
And then I told my wife I wouldn't take a
fucking dime from them. Fuck them.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
And yeah, and you know what, my because, like I said,
you know, I didn't have their in your predicament. But
that's how you got this whole conversation going. But I
look back and I'm going like, you know, I'm not complaining,
I'm just saying, but when you don't come from much,
(36:02):
And it wasn't like I didn't have, you know, a
meal or whatever. I couldn't get to school or something. Right,
I don't make it sound like it, but there was
a point in my life when I was hit about
twenty and I was completely on my own that I
would say, I was flat out for no doubt about it.
And and that's a humbling you know, that's a humbling
circumstance to be in it. And I was that way
(36:24):
for a while, even though I was working, you know,
and going to school, you know, just trying to rub
two nickels together. But I will say this much. You know,
it would have been nice if somebody had been able
to help us for one reason or the other. And
I would argue that maybe there was the means. I
don't mean, you know, like tons of stuff like buy
me a ouse, or some buy me an expensive car,
(36:46):
you know, you know, but I never we never were
offered and we never asked anybody for anything. So we
bootstrapped everything ourselves. So that's the one thing I can say,
you know, I'm and it's like at least at least
I don't owe anybody, and uh, you know, some big favorite.
But yeah, it's just just amazing. I think I told you.
(37:08):
I don't want to say too much about it because
it'll be on the air, but you know, I had
recently had a relative I had emailed you that you
know that that little note and I wish them a
happy birthday, right and and and their big thing was
they were put off because JD Vance is in town
and it was disrupting their birthday pleasures, you know. And
(37:32):
it was just like, you know, it's just the world
you live it, you know, it's like it's like it's
like you know, to the Toda, you know whatever you
know and uh, you know, you know, pseudo elite, you know,
kind of nonsense surrounding yourself at all that you know,
Tony Boloney Craft and yeah, and so it is something
(37:52):
you know. And and then here I am going like,
you know, well, I given my personal circums, you know,
you know, with what happened on my work, and it's
that and the kids having a baby. You know, I
would have thought at this age I would have been
in a much better position to help them out, you know,
but I can't as much. You know, it's not like
we didn't do anything. But even even though you know,
(38:14):
we you do what you can. And uh, but it was,
it was it was an interesting topic. And I was
surprised you got so much feedback on it because we've
noticed that it is a generational thing, you know, we've
got some older friends and uh uh and you know,
when when you start to realize, like, like what what's
(38:34):
consuming their time? And you know, what's the what are
their so called problems? Many times they seem to be
you know, quite superficial, I guess, is what I'm saying
right and relative to the rest of the world. And
uh so it is what it is. But it was
but it was an interesting uh thing. And uh I
think I shared with you a couple of examples of
(38:54):
you know, of all of that. But yeah, so well
we could table that, but I didn't want to forget
about bringing that up. But what I what I wanted
to ask you about is, yeah, you know you said
something about you know, Vans and the tell and you
know them trying to come up with this whole thing,
and then the whole thing. What do you think about
(39:15):
all of a sudden talk in the last couple of days.
Maybe it's been longer than that, but it's certainly caught
my attention about you know, Trump being crazy, dementia, walking
on the roof of the White House and all that crap.
Did you see that?
Speaker 2 (39:33):
I don't even there's some stuff You're just like, I
don't even was that real, that can't be real, right,
And it turns out it's real.
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