Episode 11 - "Relapsing" with Brett... A GUEST, YOU SAY!? - Thoughts of an Addict

Episode Transcript
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squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16 (00:16):
Hello.
Hello.
We are back here with Thoughtsof an Addict.
My name is Em.
I am your grateful, recoveringaddict with a microphone.
And I'm not gonna dilly dallytoo much today.
I am just gonna dive right inbecause we have someone crazy
enough to actually come on mypodcast today.

(00:36):
That's right, listeners.
have our very first The, the waythat this one actually came
about is it's prettyinteresting.
I, had someone reach out to me.
They, they found my emailsomehow.
I thought I was anonymized here,but I guess I shit the bet on

(00:58):
that one.
So that's why I have an emailfor you now so you don't have to
through the internet to find melike, like this poor woman had
to.
I am at Thoughts of an addictshow@gmail.com, thoughts of an
addict show@gmail.com.
Anyway, I am not going tosuppress my guest any longer.

(01:22):
His name is Brett.
is an amazing man and I will lethim introduce himself right now.
What's up, Brett?

Track 1 (01:29):
Hey, M, how you doing?
Oh, my name's.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-202 (01:33):
to have you here.

Track 1 (01:35):
I'm, I'm very grateful to be here.
So, yeah, my name is Brett.
I am a recovering addict,alcoholic, uh, dual diagnosis
mental health, and, uh, That'sjust a part of me.
That's not who I am.

(01:55):
Uh, so yeah, uh, I guess alittle bit about myself.
Um, I started doing this kindof, uh, recovery thing.
I started in 1996 with treatmentand, uh, that didn't really work

(02:18):
for me'cause I kept doing it formany, many, many years.
Uh, I ended in treatment againtwo more times, but this, uh,
this last time was, uh, the timethat my life kind of changed and
brought me to where I am today.
I work at a treatment center inSpring Branch, Texas.

(02:39):
In between San Antonio andAustin Ripple, w Ranch Recovery.
And, uh, I just try to helppeople learn about sobriety and,
and mental health, deal with,uh, trauma, deal with all
aspects of addiction.
You know, just, just dealingwith life, learning how to deal

(03:00):
with life really, and, uh, behappy.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16- (03:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Life on life's terms can be areal bitch sometimes, can't it?

Track 1 (03:11):
Absolutely.
So, yeah.

Yeah.
It sounds like a, sounds like aworthy cause brother, and super
happy to have you here.
Um, I was hoping you could dig alittle bit into your journey a
little bit.
I, people who listen to the showknow quite a bit about m by now.

Track 1 (03:30):
Okay.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (03:31):
for them to know a little bit about
Brett as well.

Track 1 (03:33):
All right.
Yeah.
Um, so.
I guess what kind of just, uh,I'll start kind of in the
beginning.
I bounce around a little bit'cause I kind of, uh, have a
hard time keeping everythingtogether.
But, uh, anyway, yeah, I, youknow, I was kind of born into

(03:53):
this, I guess this world.
I didn't come out with my handraised saying that I wanted to
have any mental health problems.
And I certainly didn't say thatI wanted to be an addict or
alcoholic.
And I certainly didn't knowabout any of this kind of stuff
for a very long time in my life.
Um, you know, as a child, kindof go through some of the things

(04:15):
of, uh, divorce, you know, it'ssome, some different traumas,
uh, childhood traumas, uh, growup just searching for something.
And you know what, it was about13 years old when I found my
first drug in my hand and Thatwas, uh, a relief I didn't know

(04:39):
existed.
And that was kind of the startof everything, and it took me a
real long time to kind of figurethat, that out.
But when I looked back, I knewit almost instantly that that
was my, that was my solution toany pains in my life.
Um, years down the road, I, Iwould join the military.

(05:03):
Uh, had I got married, had threechildren really quickly in the
military.
Uh, I was trying not to usealcohol or drugs, but it was
just everywhere.
So I kept medicating myself andit was causing tons of problems

(05:24):
in my personal life to the pointwhere I ended up getting a
divorce.
My wife had actually told me shewas pregnant.
And I sat and cried because Iknew that we were separating.
And, and that did happen veryshortly after that.
I didn't even get to see myfirst daughter until she was
almost two years old, because Iwas just not, I wasn't sane.

(05:49):
The only thing I thought aboutwas my job and the military.
That was it.
I couldn't function if itweren't for the military at the
time, I would've had absolutelyno purpose in life.
And I, I don't know where Iwould've ended up at that time.
Uh, when I ended up getting out,I, I was very addicted to

(06:14):
methamphetamines and heroin.
Uh, my ex-wife is the one whoactually helped me to get into
treatment.
And my father, um, I was on thebrink death.
Like I just, I was going insane.
I, I was living in a barn.

(06:36):
Um, I couldn't, I couldn't doanything.
I, I didn't know how to live.
I didn't know how to function.
I had three children.
I couldn't pay child support.
I couldn't see them.
I couldn't, I couldn't doanything.
So treatment was it.
And I ended up in drivingthrough like a skid roll down in

(06:56):
Denver, Colorado, looking fortreatment centers.
And I, I looked at my ex-wifeand I was like, this is what
treatment's gonna be like.
I'm not fucking going.
No way am I doing this.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-2 (07:07):
Yep.

Track 1 (07:07):
So

Yep.

Track 1 (07:09):
we ended up in this place up in Essis Park,
Colorado.
And that's, my dad paid for it,fortunately.
And, uh, I actually got threeyears clean from that time.
What I didn't get is sobriety.
I was

Hmm.

Track 1 (07:27):
dry.
I was so dry.
My, my kids were afraid of me.
My I ended up getting remarried.
Uh, she was afraid of me.
Uh, my, my P T S D was in fullrage mode.
I, if things didn't go my way, Iwould just explode.
And I, I didn't know that I waseven doing these things.

(07:48):
And, uh, I can remember to thisday my, my first drink, uh, and
this was, I was, what was I, 29,29 years old when I took that
first drink.
And it was a buddy I hadn't seenin many years.
And he, he really didn't thinkanything.
'cause we used to do all thisstuff together.

(08:10):
And, uh, he just brought over a,a six, six pack of beer and he
is like, here is a barbecue.
And I was like, yeah, noproblem.
And I knew it was.
I think everybody knew it was aproblem, really.
And, uh, that was it, you know,and it kept going until I was 46
years old, 47, ended up inanother divorce, another

(08:34):
marriage, another divorce.
Lost my houses, lost cars, losttrucks.
I've been up and downhomelessness.
Um, I've always had a, a reallygood job, made really good
money.
Um, I was able to do that kindof stuff, but I couldn't deal
with life.

mm-hmm.

Track 1 (08:51):
deal with people any, any, any issues at all come up.
And I just, I didn't know how tofunction.
Uh, I've got a, a traumaticbrain injury that puts really,
it's hard to focus on numbers.
I've got some other, you know,other mental health issues,
bipolar, uh, A D H D, thatreally things just, I.

(09:13):
Were really difficult.
I never could figure thesethings out.
Why am I struggling so much withstuff, even when I wanna be
sober?
I can't because there's allthese obstacles and these things
that happen and blah, you know,all these excuses that I kept
making.
But I never dealt with these.
And I, I ended up back in, intreatment again and, uh, 2020,

(09:36):
and this is after being in jaila few times.
DWIs, two of'em, uh, assaults.
Just stupid, stupid shit.

Yep.

Track 1 (09:45):
And, uh, I go to treatment.
I was, I was, I've lost my jobs.
Numerous, my job, numerous timesI was unionized, so I didn't
really lose it.
I just had to go to treatment orwhatever.
I've been very lucky there.
But, uh, when I went totreatment in 2020, I wanted it

(10:07):
'cause I was really di I wasreally tired and I was dying
again and, I mean, this is like,at this point it was life and
death.
Like my father was literallycalling, checking on me every
single day.
And we hadn't been really closefor a long time.
And I, I mean, I, I, my littlesister messaged me, she was in

(10:31):
in Europe and messaged me andshe's like, what the hell did
you say to dad?
'cause you about, gave him aheart attack.
He had to go to the hospital.
And I don't even know what Idid, but, uh, this is what
stemmed him calling me andtexting me and just trying to
keep me alive for about a monthbefore I ended up in treatment.
And, uh, when I got there, I wasbroke, man.

(10:53):
I, I was in detox for eight,eight days.
I couldn't move, couldn't getoutta that room.
But I picked up a book and it'sa, it's a blue book and it's got
a circle on the front of it.
And I don't even know how I didthis, but I did.
And I started reading and ittold me that I had to admit that
I was powerless.
And it said something aboutneeding a higher power.

(11:16):
Well, I am a man and I havealways been able to provide
somehow for myself.
I've always been able to takecare of myself one way or
another.
And I have been through themilitary and the infantry.
I've done a lot of shit.
I've gotten into some prettygood schools.
I've been a pretty powerfulperson.

(11:39):
So it was really hard to admitthat I'm not a powerful person,
and it's really hard to admitthat I can't control things
because I have controlled a lotof things.
And uh, I had to say to myself,what do you want, Brett?
So I prayed and I was not aperson who believed in God at

(11:59):
all.
I'd given that up a long timeago.

Yep.

Track 1 (12:02):
In fact, I gave that up in about 1994.
Like I just no longer believe inGod whatsoever.
This is 2020.
And uh, when I prayed, I hadthis feeling come through my
body like a burning bush, likewhat they talk about, like the
inside of my body was on fire.
And it was absolutely crazy andI felt a relief.

(12:24):
And I remembered clear back in96 when I was in treatment.
I laid in the middle of thisriver on top of a rock and I did
the same thing.
And I was praying to MotherNature.
'cause I remembered all of asudden I had to have a higher
power.
And I picked that mother nature,was it because there was no
belief in God and heroin andmeth were like just relieved

(12:45):
from my body and I was good togo.
So here I'm again praying andI'm getting this overwhelming
feeling through my body and I'mhaving this relief and I was
like, wow, this is crazy.
So I started like this SunSunday comes and they did this,
uh, Online church service'causeit's covid, nobody can go
anywhere.
And it's the first time that I'mdoing anything.

(13:07):
And all I'm doing is I'm hearingthese two online preachers talk
about how great they are and howmuch money they're making for
their church.
And they've got all this stuff.
And I'm like, this is why Idon't believe in God.
This is bullshit.
This isn't what I want.
So that kind of turned me offinstantly.

Yeah.

Track 1 (13:26):
But there kept being people put into my life that
kept telling me to look atdifferent things.
So I did, I kept listening andthen I, I got some, a sponsor
who kept guiding me and I keptlistening and then in walked a
person into the center that, uh,some things changed and I
stopped really focusing on myrecovery.

(13:48):
And I started focusing on thisperson.
And that was not the bestsolution that I could have done
because that spun a, uh, relapsein six hours after 58 days of
sobriety.
and something that would lastfor two years.
Um, probably, I would say thatit was an, it was emotionally

(14:17):
one of the most alone times I'veever been in my life.
'cause I was supposed to besober.
Everybody thought I was sober.
I was back to work.
I was doing okay.
Everybody thought that I wasdoing well, but in my brain I
was not good at all.
I was so

Yeah.

Track 1 (14:38):
alone.
And this one put me to a placewhere I could barely leave my
house.
Um, I was about to be homelessagain because all I was doing
was getting drunk using pillsto, you know, Disappeared.
Uh, I, if it weren't forDoorDash, I wouldn't have eaten.

(15:01):
I, I literally couldn't go outtamy house.
I could go to work,

Yeah.

Track 1 (15:05):
but yeah, I could not leave.
Uh, so I was ready to check outand I messaged my best friend in
the world who happened to be intreatment and kind of like, I
couldn't talk to that personanymore.
So I had nothing, any, like, Icould not talk to anyone.
So that was it, man.
I, I was done.
And I, me, her, and I s I toldher at some point in this like

(15:27):
two week, three week period oftime, I don't even know.
I message her and I s I toldher, I love you, and, uh, I'm
just done.
I want you to have a good, happylife, but I, I can't do this
anymore.
Goodbye.
And, uh, I don't really know howall this happened.
What I remember was waking up toa dinging on my phone.

(15:53):
And it was her messaging me.
She was in Mount Sinai Hospitalin LA having seizures.
And basically what she said is,if you're not gonna be alive,
neither am I.
And I was waking up in a pile ofpuke, staring at a bag of
heroin, in a bag of meth in mybathroom.
Uh, she's my best friend in, inthe world, and I couldn't do

(16:18):
that.
So I poured it out.
I called, uh, e a p and I told'em I'm, I'm a lot worse than
I've been letting on.
I need help.
And so about a week or so, I'mnot sure, I think it was a week
I was back in treatment, andthis time I came for somebody
else.

(16:40):
But a couple weeks into it, itchanged.
Um, I was given a therapist whowas, uh, Amazing.
Like she's made me start lookingat things that I never looked
at.
I had a recovery coach who wasreally very helpful.
He was a, he was in the Marines,he was infantry, uh, he was a

(17:02):
Texas ranger, so we really wereable to quit even though he was
a, my therapist was a, a policeofficer and my recovery coach
was a police officer, and I kindof liked the other side of the
law, you know, without law.
So

Yeah.

Track 1 (17:17):
was kind of humorous, uh, just the way all this stuff
was working.
And so I made changes and Istarted doing it for myself.
And I started it being acceptingof the fact that I did have
mental health problems.
And a lot of those were drivingmy issues in life because I
never dealt with themcompletely.
I always let them sit.

(17:39):
It's not like I wanted to, Ijust didn't know.
And all of a sudden I got thisdiagnosis of bipolar and I
thought that was like the end ofthe world.
So like, literally I wouldrather be called a junkie than,
uh, told I had bipolar.
I, I don't know, that's justridiculous, right?

Hmm.

Track 1 (18:01):
But that was how I looked at it.
You see all these commercials ofpeople and you just see these,
you know, people with bipolar,like they don't do well.
And I'm like, that's all I eversaw it.
I never really looked at it.
Even though I know people withbipolar who are very well
functioning, you would nevereven know.
But for me it was a stigma thatreally took me, it took me about

(18:24):
a good close to a month toaccept it.
While I was in, thank God I wastold I was in treatment.
'cause I don't know whatwould've happened.
Um, once I got on medicationsfor that and an anxiety, I
started dealing with some of mytraumas.
Things just started droppinginto place.
I started working my program, mysponsor was really very helpful.

(18:49):
Um, I did 90 days in treatinpatient.
I did 60 days out of outpatient.
I was told that sober livingwould be a very good idea for
me.
And I laughed at that because Iwas gonna go back to my job.
Everybody's telling me that's ahorrible idea for you.

(19:10):
And I'm like, well, I don't knowwhat the hell else I'm gonna do.
'cause that's what I've beendoing forever.
And, you know, so anyway, soeventually I come to the
conclusion, you know what,they're not, I can't go back to
work right now anyway, so I'lljust go live in sober living
until I can go back to work.
Well, it just started quick andeverything started happening.
I, uh, talked to my, a buddy ofmine, my recovery coach

(19:34):
actually, and I was like, Heydude, I need a job because all
my disability was running outand, uh, I wasn't gonna get my
job back yet.
So he actually gave me a.
He made some calls, he gave me aphone number to call, and uh, I
interviewed here at Ripple Ranchand I got the job as a night

(19:55):
tech.
Just basically, you know, doingtech stuff like walking around,
making sure clients are doingwhat they're supposed to,
keeping things cleaned andpicked up, taking care of
themselves, going to groups, youknow, that kind of stuff.

Mm-hmm.

Track 1 (20:10):
eventually I moved into the position I'm in now, which I
take, I do all the intakeassessments and I do a, the
group coordination, uh, lead andinstruct a lot of the groups.
I'm in school now to finish upmy degree, get my master's in
social work.
And life has just changedeverything with putting in the

(20:32):
work and listening to mytherapist, my sponsor,
surrounding myself with the, youknow, the people that I want to
be.
Has, has changed my life and theright medications finally, and
it, well, not finally the rightmedications, more like finally
accepting the fact that my brainis not like everybody else's.

(20:54):
I don't produce all the samechemicals that everybody else
does, and I have something inthere that says I'm an addict
and I can't use drugs oralcohol.
'cause if I do, I'll destroy mylife.
So

Yep.

Track 1 (21:09):
yeah, that's, that's, that's kind of it in a quick
nutshell.
You know,

Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Jesus, man.
Sounds like you've had somefucking downs and all

Track 1 (21:21):
brother

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (21:21):
is, uh, this is all,

Track 1 (21:23):
I'm telling you man, I have, I have been up, down, all
around, around the world.
that I, yeah, it's, it's been acrazy life, man.
I've, I've been blessed.
I can tell you that.
And I, when I say I've beenblessed and I start, when I
really tell the whole story,man, people look at me like, why
are you blessed?

(21:44):
That sounds

yeah.

Track 1 (21:45):
absolutely fucking miserable.
And I'm like, because if Ididn't go through all of that,
how the fuck would I saypeople's or how the, how would I
have any information orknowledge in me to be able to
help anybody else?

Yeah.

Track 1 (21:59):
And my higher powers, my spirituality is so strong and
my faith is so strong thateverything I get is from that.
And I pass it on to other peopleand they either take it or they
don't.
And that's what helps me staywho I am.

Yeah, that's right, brother.
We only keep what we have bygiving it away.

Track 1 (22:22):
Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.
You know, I, I mean, for me, thewhole therapeutic value of one
addict helping another addict,it, it just to, for me
personally, it just seems sofucking true.
Like, you know, I'm notdissuading the, the therapeutic
value, obviously, of therapy.
But, you know, some dude who'shad a perfect life and then went

(22:47):
to a prestigious college, youknow, in his ivory tower with
his fancy degree, I don't thinkthat does as much as a fucking
degenerate addict who is in thefucking hole in the pits of
hell.
and really empathizing withexactly what you're going
through, man, I just think thereis nothing that beats the value
of one addict helping anotheraddict.

Track 1 (23:09):
Yeah, I think we definitely need, I both, um, you
know, and it's, it is a hardsituation for me because I do
work.
on both sides.
Like I see therapists who aren'tin recovery.
They, they're not addicts,they're not alcoholics, but

(23:30):
they're in this field.
And I do know there are peoplewho don't even want to talk with
them because they're not, andthey are absolutely amazing
therapists and they're great attheir job.
And I start talking to'em andI'm like, you know, here's the
thing.
What do you have in your lifethat you've had to overcome?

(23:52):
And they're like, well, we have,I have all the, this, this,
this, and this.
I'm like, you know, so you'vegot the mental health side.
You don't, what do youunderstand about addiction?
And they start talking about it.
I'm like, okay, you can relatein these ways to an addict, but
you're not trying to fuckingliterally just survive today to

(24:12):
get high.
And really, you don't even wannasurvive.
You just don't want to fuckinghurt.
And you don't even, it's noteven the hurt, it's just this
drive to get high.
You don't even know why, youjust can't stop.
And it, that's addiction.
Like, you just don't, you don'twanna do it, you just do.

yep.
Exactly.

Track 1 (24:35):
And

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (24:35):
the fuck its.

Track 1 (24:36):
yeah, so I'm very blessed that I work with a lot
of really good people and theydo listen and about addiction
and just really well trained andversed in it.
And the people who aren't in therecovery side of it, they, they
do listen and they want tounderstand and they hang around

(25:00):
the addiction people so thatthey know what they're, they're
with.
So I think that's really cooland it's kind of made me look at
changing my perspective in thisbecause it's opened me up to the
thought of, you know, what?
Everybody has issues andproblems.
This whole world is just coveredin problems.

(25:21):
Like, we're all worried aboutmaterial things, but we don't
really help each other.
And that's where I see realissues with alcoholics and
addicts is we're, we're empathsand we take in everybody's
issues and it's like, oh,

Yep.

Track 1 (25:36):
too much.
It's overwhelming.

Yeah,

Track 1 (25:39):
my God, this world's fucking miserable I'm just
gonna, I'm not gonna,

yeah,

Track 1 (25:44):
I'm not gonna be in it.
I'm just gonna be over here onthe sidelines.
Y'all deal with it.
I'll be fucked up.
We're good.
Right?
So I,

It's like some kind of fucking
degenerate shaman.

Track 1 (25:56):
yeah.
Yeah.
it's nuts, man.
I, but it's, I'm really gratefulfor the people I work with and.

Yeah.

Track 1 (26:06):
I think sometimes you just gotta give it a chance with
the therapist.
You know, like maybe they aren'tan addict or an alcoholic, but I
bet you the majority of peoplethat go into this field, they
have some sort of issue thatthey had to overcome and they
did some therapy themselves andthey're, they're here to,

That's why everyone goes into
psychology.

Track 1 (26:24):
yeah, I think so.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-202 (26:25):
to fucking cure themselves.

Track 1 (26:26):
Yeah.
That's, I think, one of theworst fucking reasons to go into
it.
Because you're not doing it.
Oh my God, we were just talkingabout that this morning.
What, what's the number one rulewhen you go into this field?
Do not diagnose yourself,

Yeah.
And yeah, dude, I, I couldn'tagree more, man.
I, I think it's a, I think it'sa tandem effort, man.
I think, there is, you know,it's really good to have a
therapist, really good to have asponsor, but man, when you
fucking combine them, I thinkthat's where, I think that's
where change can, can start toreally occur.

(27:00):
At least that's what happened tome.

Track 1 (27:02):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I agree with you a hundredpercent.
I, I had a question for you, em,'cause we were gonna talk about
relapse.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-202 (27:09):
Oh yeah.

Track 1 (27:10):
So like, when you're working with your sponsor and,
uh, you, you're getting thosecravings, what does your sponsor
tell you first?

Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Um, so yeah, yeah.
Just to back up for a secondhere, we actually do have a
fucking topic today.
Believe it or not.
me pull up these chicken scratchfucking notes.
I wrote five minutes beforethis, so we're talking about
today.
And yeah, so Brett, thanks for,thanks for opening the

(27:45):
discussion.

Track 1 (27:46):
Sorry.

you're, you're, no, you're, you're good.
We, we should probably starttalking about this sometime.
Um, so yeah.
What, what does my sponsor tellme when I tell him I'm having
cravings?
Well, of all, I need to get myfucking ass to a meeting.
Um, I need to myself with otheraddicts, and I need to speak, I

(28:10):
need to start talking to otherpeople you know, I could tell my
friends like, oh, I'm havingthese cravings.
And if they're not addicts, andyou know, 99% of them are not.
I mean, they're, they're,they're great people.
I fucking love'em to death, butthey're not gonna have the right
kind of advice because theydon't, they don't truly

(28:31):
understand my plight.
But talking to another addict,they're gonna be able to tell me
they deal with it, you know?
And.
So one of the things that I dopersonally, after, of course
going to a meeting and talkingto other addicts, and I don't
know if this is necessarily theright thing to do, but it's what

(28:54):
I do, dude, I fucking work myass off fitness wise.
I will just fucking go out andI'll just start running and I'm
just gonna be slamming fuckingsystem of a down rage against
the machine, I am just gonna runas hard as I can for as long as
I can because I don't know, Ifeel like these natural

(29:14):
endorphins that get releasedwhen I'm doing hard fitness for
me really alters the cravings.
And I don't know how good of along-term solution that is.
I mean, fuck if I break my leg,then there goes that avenue.
But that's what, that's whatworks best for me right now.

Track 1 (29:32):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I, you know, I, I did thattoo.
Like, I was really, really biginto working out like it was, I.
something that kept me happyanytime I was in the gym or out
mountain biking.
I've never enjoyed runningThat's been something I,

Yeah.

Track 1 (29:52):
military,

sucks.

Track 1 (29:54):
military took all excitement to go running away.
Like it was, that was it.
No, I'm done.
Don't need run anymore.
But I love the gym.
I love lifting weights.
Like I had this goal, I wantedto break, I wanted to make 1000
pound deadlift one time, and Iwas, I was going for it, man.
I got up to 700 and, uh, I can'tremember how much it was, 700

(30:14):
something and I injured myself.
So at that point, I have notbeen able to really, to work out
anymore.
I can't run my right leg is, Igot this issue and it's, it's a
blood disease.
It just all, it kind of weirdlyhappened all at the same time.
Right.
And it, I can't say that thiswas helping me with drugs and
alcohol at the time, but it waskeeping my brain kind of happier

(30:40):
in that sense.
But I definitely was not sober.
Uh, but once that injuryhappened, I can tell you that
like my, my psyche just went tototal dog shit.
It took the one thing that mademe okay away,

Mm-hmm.

Track 1 (30:56):
and I, I didn't have a good health, I didn't have a
good relationship with anybody,especially myself.
I'd no longer had the ability towork out.
I couldn't go mountain biking.
Any, like, going outside to gofor a walk around the block was
not enjoyable.
Like walking a block wasliterally painful.

(31:18):
So that just to me was like, youknow what?
Fuck this.
It's, it's just worse.
I've had three surgeries,bypasses, and I had take a shit
ton of pills.
Not just for the mental healthstuff, but for the health stuff.
And it's just like, man, likecould you give me any more
fucking barriers to.

(31:39):
Try and stay sober, which Iwasn't even trying, so I don't
know why I was arguing withmyself about that.
I was using, it was just anotherexcuse.
But the, the, like you'retalking with the exercise, I
think that's one of the greatesttools that a person can use.
And even with me, I can stillexercise.
Like yoga, I can do that.

Yeah.

Track 1 (32:03):
Meditation.
That's like one of my, that'sone of my go-tos now.
Like for sobriety.
Meditation is so huge in prayer.

Hmm.
Oh, dude, I, I, I wouldn't evensay that meditation is huge

Track 1 (32:17):
I

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10 (32:17):
sobriety.
I, I think it's fucking dude.

Track 1 (32:20):
There you go.
Critical.
I like that even better.
Yeah.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-2023 (32:23):
I mean, dude, I, these like, even,
even if you've been clean for 20years, dude, like you've got
demons, you've got these, likethe addiction never goes away.

Track 1 (32:32):
Mm-hmm.

never goes away.
Of course.
Right?
That's why we stay clean, know,every single day.

Track 1 (32:38):
Yeah.

can't, we can't step back into it.
So if you've got these fuckingsick thoughts that are just
swirling around, well, guesswhat?
They could, they could takecontrol.
They could take fucking themaster pilot seat.
Again, if you don't seriouslyregulate and try to get your
thoughts under control.
So

Track 1 (32:57):
Yeah.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-2023 (32:57):
I mean, that, that's, that's kind
of the second thing I was gonnasay is When I, when I'm having
these cravings, I meditate,dude, and I fucking meditate
hard.
Which, which sounds kind ofcounterintuitive because I don't
know how someone meditates hard,but what, what I, what I like to
do, dude, is so I am, I'm a, I'ma daily meditator.
I go for like 10 to 15 minutes,twice a day.

(33:21):
when the fucking, when thesickness really, really starts
bubbling up, when the, when themalady of the soul really starts
to express itself inside of me,dude, I'll ramp that shit up to
a good 30.
I'll turn on some fucking whitenoise, and I will, I will dive
right in.
And the great part is you canstart to see the nexus of your
thoughts.

Track 1 (33:39):
Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-202 (33:39):
to see the thoughts that are
causing these cravings

Track 1 (33:42):
yes.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (33:43):
and just being able to see that,
then you start to understand,oh, okay, hang out with Tony
anymore.

Track 1 (33:50):
Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-202 (33:51):
Or whoever the

Track 1 (33:51):
Yeah,

the, these, these thoughts are
arising.

Track 1 (33:54):
absolutely.
It's cool that, that therapist Iwas talking about that really
helped me change my life.
Uh, she started doing sound.
She would play sound bowls,Tibetan sound bowls.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (34:07):
Mm.

Track 1 (34:08):
So she really got me into looking at that kind of
stuff and chakra cleansing andstones, and I guess turned me
onto my inner hippie.
And I'm not a fan of hippiestuff, but like, it opened me
back up into that stuff.
Like,'cause I was, when I wasyounger, I mean, I had multiple
color hair mohawks.

(34:29):
I, I mean, I was crazy, but punkrock, you know.
But, uh, today, like I, I'mperfectly fine wearing some
stone bracelets to get someenergy flow going.
I'm perfectly fine playing somesound bowls and when I do that
stuff, I feel better and I do, Iget to hear the things I need to

(34:50):
hear because I'm shutting up andI'm listening.

Yeah.
Yeah.
It, I mean, so much, muchfucking power in listening.
And lo and behold, that's one ofthe hardest things for us
addicts to do, right?
I mean, fuck, we've probablybeen told by everybody in our
lives, all right, you need toget fucking help.
And, you know, we, we didn'tbelieve them till right, right
until the bitter fucking end.

Track 1 (35:15):
Well, it is, it's kind of funny actually.
Uh, my family is very wellversed in alcoholism and
addiction, so nobody really evertells me I need to go get help
on top.
The fact that I have always beenvery far away from my family.

(35:35):
I've lived miles and miles andmiles away.
Um, so they all know that I wasmessed up and had issues, but
they just, they kind of juststand back and they're, they're
actually pretty smart about it.
Like, they don't enable me.
They don't, you know, they havegiven me money at times.

(35:57):
I mean, I've even borrowed frommy sis little sisters and my
daughters because, and dude, Imake more money than all of'em.

Yeah.

Track 1 (36:05):
not more money than my dad.
He's retired now, but like, he'smade more than me.
But like, I'm made really goodmoney to the point where I
should not be homeless or Ishould have really nice stuff
and be able to travel wherever Iwant to go.
Right.
And I was becoming homeless andI would borrow from my children
occasionally.
Um, I had a, a hard conversationonce.

(36:27):
Like I borrowed a hundred bucksfrom my daughter and she's like,
dad, I, I'm not gonna loan youmore money ever again.
This is it.
And at that time, I actuallywasn't fucked up.
I actually needed the money.
I was just off, I was off ofwork for, uh, it was like some
injury type stuff, and mydisability pay wasn't coming in

(36:47):
correctly.
And so it I felt like a ass, I,I mean, I was doing everything I
was supposed to be doing, and Ifelt like, man, I, I'm a real
piece of shit because my owndaughter's telling me she can't,
she's not gonna loan me anymoney anymore.
So I, and I've always paid backand stuff, but To them, but man,
that, that kind of hurt, youknow?

(37:07):
I was like, wow, I really havedone some damage.

Yeah, for sure.
Um, and I think the recognitionof that damage is one of the
ways that allows us to fuckingstay clean.

Track 1 (37:23):
Yeah, for sure.
I,

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (37:26):
Um, yeah.
So just, you know, I, I'd loveto know a little bit more and
then I'll share afterwards.
I'd love to know like yourexperience with relapse.

Track 1 (37:37):
man,

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-202 (37:38):
I.

Track 1 (37:39):
so relapse is probably like, uh, it sucks.
I,

fucking worst.

Track 1 (37:55):
I think so when I got clean, the very first time, I, I
never, ever wanted to use drugsagain in my life.
But I never really thought aboutalcohol, even though I, I knew I
was an alcoholic man.
I mean, you don't drink a handleof vodka on your own in a night,
and you're not an alcoholic andyou, you know,

Yeah.

Track 1 (38:15):
and you don't start drinking.
Like when I was a kid, I, Iwould drink whiskey and, and
specifically Jack Daniels.
I couldn't even smell JackDaniels or, uh, Copenhagen
Snuff.
That smell, those two thingsmakes me instantly puke, but
everybody else does it.
So like, I had to start doing itand I'm like, you're, this is

(38:35):
ignorant.
That's just pure peer pressure.
And I was not a peer pressurekind of person, but apparently I
was.
And then

Hmm.

Track 1 (38:43):
it just, you know, the alcohol just kept coming,
coming, coming.
And it became the real issue.
Like I say, my D O C is heroinand meth, but in reality my D O
C is alcohol.
I go to alcohol every singletime because it's right there
and it doesn't take anything.
I, my, my, my car, my truck, mymotorcycle, anything that I am

(39:09):
driving has this really coolfeature in it called Autopilot
and it ends up in front of a baror a liquor store by itself.
And I don't know how it does it,it's a miracle.

Yeah.

Track 1 (39:22):
Uh, and that's the funny thing about a relapse is
like, I really think that'strue, but the relapse started
way before that.
It started before I ended up atthe bar or the liquor store, or
the dealer, or the weeded storeor wherever, you know, it

(39:44):
started way before that.
I was, I was thinking about thislong before I went and put the
vehicle in drive.
Things were happening.
And that's what I've come torealize is I've got to look at
On a daily basis before I go tobed, what did I do wrong and
what did I do right?
What can I improve?

(40:05):
And when I wake up, I have to dothe same things.
I've got to give thanks and begrateful for this day.
And I've gotta do themeditation, the prayers, the
meditations, the same things.
'cause when I don't, thatautopilot

Yep.

Track 1 (40:21):
and all the issues that happen, they pop up.
And that relapse man staring ata bag of heroin and a bag of
meth and a laying a pile of puestelling your best friend that
you're done.
That's not

Yep.

Track 1 (40:37):
fucking cool.
Shit.
That's, that, that's not thefun, fun stuff that everybody
saw on the, in the, on the tv.
You know, the party life of a, adrug addict, you know, everybody
thinks of the bad, the badthings of drugs is when you're
underneath an overpass, livingat homeless.

Yeah.

Track 1 (40:54):
That's, that's the end of all.
No, we have addicts that, of allclasses,

Mm-hmm.

Track 1 (41:01):
all colors, everything.
And we all have the sameproblem.
We're all fucking dying.

Yep.

Track 1 (41:09):
That relapse, man.
That's, that's the worst damnthing in the world.
'cause it is preventable.
We have medications.
It's called working a program,working with other addicts and
alcoholics.
There is a solution.
There's no cure and it's noteasy.
That relapse,

Yep.

Track 1 (41:30):
fuck man.
I don't ever wanna do that shitagain.
And I see it, see it every daybecause this is the field I, I
choose to work in now to helpother people.
And I see it on the streets.
The other morning I was, I washeading to work and, uh, sadly,
I.
As I'm driving underneath thethe overpass, there was a

Yeah,

Track 1 (41:52):
right there, and it's like literally three blocks
from, not even three blocks, twoblocks from where I live.
And I, uh, I see it and I hearit all the time.
I, I live in San Antonio, Texasand we see it all the time.
Go to any city or even town inAmerica, and we're seeing this
happen daily.

yeah,

Track 1 (42:14):
I don't.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (42:16):
No, for sure man.
Um, yeah, relapse.
Relapse is a real son of a bitchdude.
But at the same time, and youknow, I can't speak for every
addict out there, but I feellike the road to getting clean
is unfortunately filled withrelapses because they always
say, you know, only, you onlyreally learn from your mistakes.

(42:37):
And that's an addict Relapse isjust about the biggest goddamn
mistake that you can make.
But it also presents a pretty,uh, pretty big learning
opportunity.

Track 1 (42:47):
Yeah.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (42:47):
Uh, uh, I remember, I think I tried
to get clean one, one time verypassionately back when I was in
my undergrad and I joined this,uh, this Christian club called
Crew.
Many of my crew people are outthere, God bless y'all.

(43:08):
And it was, uh, yeah, it wasthis Christian society and I
remember that I was actuallyable to, to stay clean for a
good like three or four months.
And I got to this point, and I,I'm sure this I'm sure many of
my addicts listening right nowcan relate to this point I'm

(43:28):
about to make.
I get to this point where I'mlike, oh, fuck, look at me.
I can, uh, I can do this thing.
I've got this thing undercontrol.
I, I'm not an addict anymorebecause look, look at my, my, my
rap sheet, four months clean.
Clearly I'm not an addict.
The addict is the dude under thefucking overpass, right?

Track 1 (43:48):
Yes.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (43:49):
And I'm like, all right, cool.
Well, I can have, I can have acouple of beers.
And so I did.
guess what?
I wasn't under the fuckingoverpass.
I wasn't doing lines of coke offof the toilet seat.
You

Track 1 (44:02):
Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-2023 (44:03):
I was able to have two beers then
do that for A month or two, andI'm like, ah, look at that.
I'm capable of having two beers.
Let's, uh, let's throw some hardalcohol in the mix.
And then, you know, I starttaking a few shots and then two
months later I'm like, oh, lookat that.
I can have beers and Al and Ican have a few shots of, of
whiskey.

(44:25):
Let's start taking fuckinghandle poles again.
Then I'm drinking eight, eightshots at a time in my fucking
fraternity.
And I'm like, holy shit.
Look, I can handle drinking likea fucking fish.
start doing coke again.
And then I'm back to square one,

Track 1 (44:41):
Yeah.

fucking come outta blackout and I'm
doing cocaine off of toiletseats at work again.

Track 1 (44:46):
Yeah,

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (44:47):
So, it, it, it's, it's a disgusting
nexus and, and it always bringspeople back to the same place,
right?
I think, I think that's howrelapse works a lot of

Track 1 (44:57):
I think,

like,

Track 1 (44:58):
I think that's the lucky.
That's the lucky relapse.
Like, man, the way things arebeing cut today with fentanyl,
you never know.
Like, it's so dangerous.
Uh, like on top of it, I mean,relapse, I, I tend to really

(45:26):
start doing stupid thingsbecause for me now, a relapse is
like detrimental.
Like I think once you get someknowledge about this, you
relapse is just worse and worse.
And it's like, fuck, I just gaveup 90 days and it was so hard to

(45:48):
get that 90 days for me.
And this the, you know, two,what is it, three years, three
and a half years ago when Istarted the relapse.
I could get 58 days and Icouldn't get past 58 days, man.
And when I'd get to 59 and, andjust fuck up, it was like the

(46:09):
worst damn thing.
And then it would last like twoweeks and I'd try again and then
it boom.
And then it'd be like a coupledays of trying to fight and I'm
shaking and I'm miserable andI'm sweating.
I can't sleep, I can't eat, justnauseous and body aches.
And then all of a sudden it'slike, fuck this and I will drink
or I'll, I'll get a Xanax orwhatever just to feel okay.

(46:32):
And it just continued andcontinued and continued and
worse and worse and worse andworse.
How I made it through that, thatlast, that two years.
Man.
I don't fucking know.
Uh, well I mean, you, I told youwhere I ended up and

Yeah.

Track 1 (46:46):
that was lucky.
Absolutely lucky.
'cause I wanted to be dead.
And I that's, I hear that allthe time from people.
It's just, I don't wanna wakeup.
I just don't want to do it tomyself, even though I'm doing it
to myself.
I don't wanna know that I do itso

Yeah,

Track 1 (47:03):
that's relapse

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (47:04):
for

Track 1 (47:05):
It's fucking miserable.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (47:08):
for sure.
And you know, for me today, Isee, and, and I'll be honest
with you, I'm, I'm a gamblingman in a lot of ways.
I am very not risk adverseperson, which has its pluses and
minuses.
in a lot of ways, I feel likerelapse is, for me is just this
like huge, huge gamble.
Like I am at the peak of like mymental health and my

(47:32):
spirituality having been cleanfor a little over five years.
and you know what, dude, youknow what?
There is a fucking real chancemaybe I can have a couple beers.
Now, again, you know the fuckingthoughts that I was just
describing that end me over afucking toilet seat,

Track 1 (47:49):
Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (47:49):
But you know what?
There is a real chance thatmaybe I would be able to
necessitate it now.
But guess what, dude?
It's not fucking worth the risk.
It's like, I, I, you know, I'ma, I'm a business school
student, so I, I look at afucking opportunity chart, you
know, like, okay, theopportunity of being able to
have a couple beers, I, I, I geta buzz.
that's cool.
The, the potential downside.

(48:11):
I fucking die.
I fucking ruin all of myrelationships.
I fucking lose my fuckingscholarship at my school.
Like, whatever the fuck it is,like the, just the potential
downside, it just doesn't makesense for me anymore to risk it.

Track 1 (48:27):
Yeah.
And that's, that's one thingwhere I, I love AA and, and na.
I love all the 12 step programs.
Like I'm not gonna sit here andbash at all because AA helped me
get sober.
And I will forever be grateful.
And I still use aa.
I still use my sponsor, but thisis why I also use Smart
Recovery.

(48:47):
I get a u I have all these othertools to use for my stupid
thinking.
'cause like you're talking aboutbusiness, like I can run a
business fine, I can look atdata and pick and stuff.
And I mean, the numbers do kindof fuck up in my head'cause my
brain crap.
So I have to really work hard onthat kind of stuff.
But if I do a cost benefitanalysis and I, I've got my

(49:10):
hierarchy of values, I knowwhat's important to me.
I can look at all that stuff andwrite it down and be like, okay,
going and trying to see ifhaving a beer is acceptable.
I know that that outcome is notlikely.
I know that the reason that I'mwanting this is because I'm

(49:31):
trying to medicate something.
It's not a good choice.
I'm not, I'm not a gambler man.
I, I don't, I've never enjoyedgambling, but, Those are things,
numbers that I will gamble withat times too.
So there's That's where I needthat AA side of it.

Yeah, for sure.
And I think you, you just hit ona key point, which is, you know,
you're able to assess yourvalues now, but when you're
fucking depraved and you've beenusing for the last 10 years, you
don't, you don't fucking knowwho you are anymore, dude.

Track 1 (50:03):
Yeah.

just a shell of a person and the
values aren't really there,

Track 1 (50:07):
Yeah.
They're,

clean time to start to develop those

Track 1 (50:10):
yeah.
And it is like, what values,

Right?
Exactly.

Track 1 (50:15):
I mean, you, you know, on a, on an intake assessment,
one of the questions is, dosteal from family and friends
that support your drugaddiction.
What values is there?
I mean, that's taking from thepeople you, you're supposed to
care about.
And we do everything to supportour habits and not our habits.

(50:38):
We do everything to support ouraddiction.

Yep.

Track 1 (50:41):
We go to the depths of hell, the darknesses and dis, I
mean, it's, it's miserable.
Anybody who's an addict can saythis and, and talk about it.
And people who are not addictsor alcoholics have a hard time
with understanding just thedepravity of this disease.
And that's where I am reallypush when people come into

(51:01):
treatment, I, I talk to themabout how important it is for
them to be secure in their ownself-worth and not use other
people's self-worth that, youknow, you can be around them,
but you have to be secure inyourself and that's where your
healing is gonna start.
Work with others, addicts,alcoholics, be around them, talk

(51:23):
to them, but you've gotta startloving you and it's

Yep.

Track 1 (51:28):
extremely hard to do when you're starting out.

Fucking damn near impossible,

Track 1 (51:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, I.
But as that is one thing I tryto really, really get people to
start doing, we play, uh, we dosome pretty kind of funny things
like, you know, we'll play somegames like charades, cognitive
thinking, you know, like, andthe reason we do it is like to
speed up the brains having tofunction and think and, and

(51:57):
interact with people.
And it's funny to watch thatbecause people start lighting up
really quick'cause they'replaying and having fun and
interacting with others.
And, uh,

yeah,

Track 1 (52:07):
the lights start popping on.
It's really cool to see.
I don't know why that justpopped in my head, but it did.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (52:14):
No, for sure.
I, I, uh, I honestly thankfucking you and I could talk on
self-love for an entire episode,so I'm actually, I'm actually
gonna fucking write that down.
That's an idea.
All right.
Um, wanted to talk a little bitabout So, all right.
Fucking guess what, dude,relapses happened.
The relapse just happened.

(52:36):
You know, maybe some of our,some of our addicted friends out
there, maybe they're in thegrips of a relapse of some kind.
know?
What should you do?

Track 1 (52:47):
Oh man, that's a tough one.
It honestly is really, reallytough because it's so, I know
with my relapses, I was sofilled full of guilt and shame.
I didn't want to talk toanybody.
Like, I didn't want anybody toknow.
Um,

Mm-hmm.

Track 1 (53:04):
so I would, I'll talk.
If I were to relapse todaypersonally, I, man, I would be
filled with so much guilt, somuch remorse that it, this would
be extremely hard for me.
I.
I can tell you that because I, Ido a lot around this community.

(53:29):
Um, a lot of people know me.
Uh, it would be so fuckingembarrassing, man.
But I know, and I tell, I tellpeople every day.
I'm like, man, I can't promiseyou tomorrow.
All I have is today.
So if I were to start getting tothat point, and I, or let's just
say I did, I did relapse.

(53:50):
I can't tell you what I woulddo.
I don't know.
Uh, my, my initial thoughts are,I'm fucked.
I'm dead.
That's kind of where I am and mythoughts, like I, if I relapse,
I'm dead.
I'm scared to death of it.
Um, so I guess I work a lot inmy solution to where I don't
want to be in that relapse.

(54:11):
I do have my relapse preventionplan, my relapse.
Get out of relapse plan.
man.
You gotta pray, you gottameditate, you gotta talk to your
sponsor, you gotta work yourprogram, you've gotta talk with
your therapist.
You've gotta talk with addictsand alcoholics and not the ones
that are fucking addicts andalcoholics because they're out

(54:33):
there using addicts andalcoholics are out there getting
sober and being sober.
Surround yourself with thosepeople.
You can't surround yourselfaround people who aren't addicts
and alcoholics and expect you'regonna get sober.
'cause you're not.
They don't understand addiction.
They don't understand that it'snot okay to have a, a drink and
talk about the problem.

(54:54):
'cause that is the problem.
So my first, my first thing thatI have to do is I've gotta make
that phone call.
I've gotta pick up that phoneand I've gotta call my sponsor.
And that comes after prayer.

Yeah.

Track 1 (55:10):
Uh, or I'm fucked, man.
I, I'm just straight fucked.
I, I, like I say, man, I, if Irelapse, I'm scared to death of
it.
'cause I, I honestly believethis time is the last I, that's
where I was.
I've been, I've OD'ed I've beenclose to death.
I've tried offing myselfnumerous times.

(55:32):
I want, I, I, it's almost like Ifeel like I can't fucking die,
which is kind of scary.
But I know I can, I'm anadrenaline junkie too, so I, I
live with that.
Uh, all I can say is I, I'm, I'mpraying and I'm calling my
sponsor.

Yeah, for sure.
And, and you know, you, you usethis phraseology, scared to
death, which is a pretty bigcolloquialism in like society,
but I mean, it, it fucking is,it's a, it's actually a matter
of life and death.
And the thing about the atticis, you know, we, like, we're,
we're gluttons for punishment.

(56:10):
We, we like to fucking punishourselves, man.

Track 1 (56:12):
Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (56:13):
you know, when, when I would
relapse, I would be like,alright, fuck it.
Well, I've already fucked myselfnow, like, you know, so a couple
of the times that I relapsed,I'd be like, well, I'm already
drinking beer.
already doing whiskey.
I mean, I've, I'm already notclean.

Track 1 (56:31):
Yeah,

might as well maximize how good I
fucking feel.
Why not just dive back into the,back into the pharmaceuticals
and

Track 1 (56:37):
yeah.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (56:37):
and into the hard shit?
You know?
It's like if I'm not clean,might as well fucking maximize.

Track 1 (56:42):
Might as well take advantage of this time because
I'm not, if I'm gonna get cleanagain, I gotta get fucked up to
the max this time, and I'm gonnahave to go to detox and rehab.
I might as well go full fuckingbore.
I mean, shit, why not?
Why not destroy everything?

Yep.
Yep.

Track 1 (56:58):
And so, and that kind of brings me to this point.
It's like if I want sobrietyagain, just kind of bring this
back to a solution.
I am on that path towardsrelapse.
I am obviously not working myprogram.
I'm not dealing with the issuesthat I need to be dealing with,

(57:20):
and I'm not.
I'm not working on me.

Yeah.

Track 1 (57:25):
I'm doing the wrong thing.
So it is possible to notrelapse.
I do know people who have gone,I've known people who've never
gone to treatment and havegotten sober working programs.
I know people who have gone totreatment one time got out and
have gotten sober.
I know people who don't workprograms.
I know, you know, we're all overthe place and how people get
sober, I don't care.

(57:48):
As long as you get sober andyou're happy, it's not about
being sober and miserable.
To me, sobriety is beingmentally sober and physically
remo removed from dependency ofthose chemicals altering my
brain.

yeah, for sure.
And I, I think you, um, I thinkyou outlined the absolute tool
for dealing with relapse whenyou're an addict.
And the, and the answer ishonesty.
That's it.
It's fucking brutal honesty,which is one of the absolute
hardest things.
That addicts can do is

Track 1 (58:27):
Yeah.

honest with another person.

Track 1 (58:29):
Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (58:29):
Um, you know, my, my listeners know
this.
My, um, my closest friend in theworld passed away over the
summer

Track 1 (58:37):
very sorry.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (58:38):
he, he, yeah, man, thank you.
He, uh, he had a relapse and he,he felt like he couldn't be
honest with me about it becausehe was afraid that, you know, I
wasn't gonna be his friendanymore and that I was gonna
judge him for that.
But, you know, I think that'swhy this community of addicts is
so fucking powerful, dude,because we're not gonna fucking

(58:59):
judge you.
We've been there,

Track 1 (59:00):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
We, we, if, again, if we'reworking a program, we do not
judge

Yep.

Track 1 (59:15):
what is there to judge,

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10- (59:17):
Exactly.

Track 1 (59:18):
and who am I to judge another human being.

Yeah, dude,

Track 1 (59:22):
I'm just another,

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-202 (59:23):
I.

Track 1 (59:23):
just another human being walking this planet trying
to do the next right thing.
That's it.
I'm, I'm guided by my prayersand my, my actions of trying to
do what I, what I am driven tothe right direction I want, I
want to heal for me, and if Ican show a better person than

(59:48):
what I was yesterday, that helpsand it helps another person.
That's what I care about.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (59:56):
Uh, amen to that brother.
Uh, so there was, uh, one lastthing I actually wanted to
discuss on this subject today,is, all right, what happens if
you do have a buddy someoneimportant to you that relapses,
right?
Like, and, and they do, they,they admit it to you, or maybe

(01:00:18):
they relapse and.
They, you know, they don't tellyou, but you have a very strong
suspicion slash you know, youknow, with certainty that
they've relapsed.
What, can you do for that addictwho is unable to be honest with
you?

Track 1 (01:00:34):
Love them.
Don't enable'em.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16- (01:00:38):
yeah.

Track 1 (01:00:39):
You have to be brutally honest back and you have to have
your boundaries.
You, you, I'm not savinganybody, man.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-202 (01:00:49):
mm

Track 1 (01:00:50):
I save.
I save me.
That's it.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (01:00:53):
mm.

Track 1 (01:00:54):
I used my higher power and other people to, to help,
but I had to make the choice andthe decision to get sober.
Nobody could do that for me andI couldn't use anybody else.
Like my best friend I told youabout.
I have three daughters that Ilove and adore.
My first wife, Andrea, or she,she was my best friend and I

(01:01:15):
couldn't stay sober for her.
And you know, she has the motherof my children.
I could not stay sober for her.
I couldn't stay sober for mysisters.
I couldn't stay sober foranybody.
I couldn't get sober foranybody.
And I never would have gottensober for anybody I've tried,
didn't work, just like I trieddifferent drugs, I tried
different alcohols.
I tried the whole, if I sleep Xamount of hours, if I eat X

(01:01:37):
amount of food, if I do these,all these stupid different
fucking things, maybe I'm not analcoholic.
You know, somebody's like, well,I.
You know, if you don't drink atthis time of the day, well, I
was a, I worked for a 24 hour aday, seven days a week, 3, 6, 5
days a year.
So I'd get off work sometimes atthree in the morning and I'd
start drinking because, youknow, my day's over all these

(01:01:59):
stupid things I tried.
Uh, a person who wants to getsober has to make that decision
for yourself.
And if it's a person that you'reclose to and you love and care
about, all you can do is supportto your best ability, but you
cannot enable them.
There's a lot of differentplaces to go.

(01:02:20):
Al-Anon, smart Family andFriends, A C o A deals with some
of that issues.
Um, go talk to your, you know,your sponsor.
What, what options do you havethere?
Don't try and handle it on yourown because it's not a good
place for you.
It's kind of like sponsoringyour friend, your best friend.

(01:02:40):
Is that really a good, goodidea?
Um, sometimes people sponsorpeople from the opposite sex,
and I'm not against it a wholecompletely, but, you know, there
are some, some issues to addressthere.
Uh, these are things that youhave to really be very careful
with, especially, you know, ifI'm in recovery.

(01:03:00):
So I have to understand how thatperson's going to affect me,
even if I love and care aboutthem.
It's me first.
My sobriety is the number onemost important thing in this
world to me, because if I don'thave that, everybody else is
fucked, and

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-2 (01:03:18):
Yep.

Track 1 (01:03:18):
I'm probably gonna be dead.
So

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16- (01:03:22):
Yeah.

Track 1 (01:03:22):
protect me first and then what do I need to do?
Suggestions, you know, if thatperson is just straight up lying
to me about everything, wellthen I've got to protect my
boundaries and be okay.
Well, you'll, I, I'm, we're notgonna be hanging out.
If you want, um, to, to go to ameeting.
I'm here.

(01:03:43):
Uh, if you want some places togo to get help, here are some,
but if they're just straight upnot willing, there's nothing I
can do.
Right?

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16- (01:03:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's true man.
Um, with my, uh, with my buddythat passed over over the
summer, I remember I would findout.
He had been lying to me.
I, I remember getting reallyviscerally angry at him.
And I think every time that Igot angry at him, was less and

(01:04:16):
less aptt to, to being honestwith me when he would slip up.
Um, I think from thatexperience, I learned that, you
know, I think you nailed it,Brett, when you said, you know,
all you can do is love them and,and be available to them, but
you can't force them into thelife raft.
Right.

Track 1 (01:04:34):
No.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (01:04:34):
You can present it to them.
But, you know, I tried so hardman for so many fucking years to
throw this guy into the liferaft and I, I think, I think it
was just overwhelming for him.
And, you know, it was, it wasoverwhelming for me.
So I think, I think that's thekey is being available, but you
can't force anybody to dosomething

Track 1 (01:04:54):
Yeah,

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-2 (01:04:55):
want at the end of the day.

Track 1 (01:04:56):
yeah.
I've been having to kind oflearn this lesson, um, by, you
know, one where I work.
I want everybody to be sober,you know, of course.
Uh, I want everybody to enjoywhat has been so graciously
given to me for that first timein my life.

(01:05:17):
I'm, I'm happy, like,legitimately, truthfully, happy.
I can deal with the issueswithout going and getting fucked
up and ruining everything off ofsome small issue that I turn
into huge things and letsnowball.
Uh, just all, all these greatthings change and, and make life

(01:05:38):
so much better.
So I want everybody to havethat.
But, you know, I, I have agirlfriend that I live with now.
We have an apartment, and it is,you know, it's been difficult.
She has, she's also in recoveryand she's got her issues.
I have to realize that I am nother recovery.
She's not my recovery.
We want to do our own things.

(01:06:00):
Um, it, she's got some mental,some serious mental health
things going on, but, you know,I, I can't force her to do
anything.
I can't.
I have to let her do her stufffor her.
Um, I know what she, she'sdoing.
Uh, we have the opencommunication.

(01:06:21):
We talk.
And we deal with things.
And it's a very strange, strangething for me, like I've never
been in something like thiswhere we try to work together
and yeah, we have issuesoccasionally.
Like Saturday, I, I threw atemper tantrum and I ignored her
all day because she slept inand, uh, we were supposed to get

(01:06:44):
up and go do stuff.
And so I was a jerk all day longand I had to really look at what
my issues was with that.
And it was simply, I'm trying topush her to go do things when
she's dealing with some mentalhealth issues.
And I'm like, man, Brett, youstill, you still have stuff to
work on buddy.
And that's kind of the coolthing is now I can start seeing

(01:07:07):
when I'm am making poor choicesand decisions, I can see this
stuff.
So living with somebody withaddiction, although it can be
very dangerous, can also be sucha great thing because,

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-2 (01:07:19):
Hmm.

Track 1 (01:07:19):
We like really get to work with each other in that
kind of a setting.
And we're both very loving andcaring people.
Uh, I don't know.
It is really cool being sober, Iguess is the point of that.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16- (01:07:37):
Yeah, it's pretty, pretty fucking
sick, isn't it?

Track 1 (01:07:39):
Yeah, man.
Like I didn't think that beingsober was ever a cool thing, but
uh, it actually is because now Ican think it's really weird.
Like, and, and you know, andthat's kind of one of the
things, okay, so let me justbring it back right

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16- (01:07:58):
Yeah.

Track 1 (01:07:59):
to the relapse thing because I, I wanna really make
this clear.
Like

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16- (01:08:04):
Yeah.

Track 1 (01:08:04):
my mental health really drove, drove a lot of my
addiction problems.
Trauma was a huge thing that Iburied.
But one of the things I neverknew was, like with A D H D,
methamphetamines made me focusto where my brain shut off and I
could literally learn things.
And it was really awesome.

(01:08:26):
It took until I was 48 years oldfor the first time when I was
dealing with my issues, workingon them hard, working on my
issues, my traumas, my P t, SSD, my anxiety, depression,
bipolar.
When I got all that stuff beingworked on and I got the proper

(01:08:47):
medications, my brain sloweddown and I learned how to
properly, you know, do some ofthe things like meditation.
My brain slowed down

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-2 (01:08:58):
Yep.

Track 1 (01:08:59):
and I could think,

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-1 (01:09:01):
Mm-hmm.

Track 1 (01:09:01):
and it was so weird.
And it's not to say that I'malways that way,'cause I can
definitely squirrel man.
I think probably in thisconversation you've heard me,
squirrel.
Some, I don't know.
I've had probably fiveconversations going on, but But
you know, it's really cool whenyour brain starts like
functioning and then you startremembering things like, you

(01:09:22):
know, happy thoughts instead ofall this negative crap that we
like to port on.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16- (01:09:27):
Yeah.

Track 1 (01:09:27):
Cool, man.
And I'm just, I'm reallygrateful to be on your podcast
and talk about this'cause it's,I think it's something that
everybody should get to hear andknow about.
Like everybody in this worldneeds to know about this stuff.
It's very, very important.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16- (01:09:43):
Yeah, for sure.
And I think you, I think youjust drove the difference
between, you know, thinking andhaving thoughts when you're an
addict.
Sure you have all kinds offucking thoughts that are just
flying

Track 1 (01:09:53):
Yeah.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16 (01:09:54):
you're really outta control when you're
thinking, dude,

Track 1 (01:09:56):
Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-20 (01:09:57):
can actually be using that, the
power of your mind for good.

Track 1 (01:10:00):
Yeah.
That is so amazing.
Like we can,

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16- (01:10:05):
Yeah,

Track 1 (01:10:05):
we're not, we're really intelligent people.
Like I sit in these rooms

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16- (01:10:10):
Yeah.

Track 1 (01:10:10):
I listen to people and I was like, man, these people
are highly intelligent.
And that actually is one of themarkers and indicators of
addicts and alcoholics isthey're highly intelligent
people.
They score very high and they'renot surviving in life where,
what is the problem.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-1 (01:10:31):
Mm-hmm.

Track 1 (01:10:32):
So when we start looking at some of the issues
that surround alcohol andaddiction and mental health,
man, that just starts clarifyingin my head all the things we've
been doing wrong in this fieldfor so many years and we're
finally starting to do right.
And I think we're starting tosee a lot of turnaround.

(01:10:52):
Of course we still have therelapses and I don't think
that's ever gonna go away, but,uh, we're, we're handling them
better.
I think people are starting towake up and see.
This is a very, very seriousproblem in this world and it's
'cause it's not just in America.
This is a worldwide problem.
I've seen it all over Europe.

(01:11:16):
You see it on the news all overAsia.
It's in Africa, it's in theMiddle East, it's in South
America.
Drug addiction is everywhere,but so is mental health.
We see it in history.
So this is not something new andit's finally starting to get
talked about and people arestarting to do something.
Relapses aren't gonna besomething that is ever gonna go

(01:11:37):
away, I don't think, like Isaid, but is definitely
something that we're gonna getbetter at because we're dealing
with the mental health and Ithink the human condition, if we
all start talking,'cause if youlook in the rooms, people care
and they love each other andthey take care of each other.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-2 (01:11:54):
Yep.

Track 1 (01:11:54):
We just need to get it all over the place instead of
just the small group.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16-2 (01:12:00):
Yep.
Yep.
Exactly.
Part of the reason I'm doingthis thing, my man.

Track 1 (01:12:04):
I love it.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16- (01:12:05):
Yeah.
So I think that, uh, that aboutwraps it up.
And Brett, I'd love for you tomaybe say, you know, maybe talk
a minute to the addict out therewho's still suffering listening
to this thing.
And go for it, man.

Track 1 (01:12:21):
Oh, to the, uh, to the attic out there still suffering.
I'm sorry man.
I'm sorry to all of you.
Uh, I wish you all the best.
There is love out there.
There is hope and, uh, I'm here.
There are hundreds of thousandsof people, millions of people
out there just waiting for youto come and, and get help.

(01:12:45):
Uh, I'm here at Ripple Ranch.
You can check usout@rippleranch.com.
Uh, we are a dual diagnosisfacility.
We are just waiting to helpwhoever wants help.

squadcaster-i0ab_4_10-16- (01:13:00):
Right on, right on Brett.
And all my listeners out there,I can't fucking believe that
somebody came on this show, buthere we are.
Um, I just feel so fuckinggrateful right now that, that
Brett was willing to take histime and come on here.
And Brett, you're the fuckingman, dude, you're a homie.
And yeah, let's, uh, keep tuningin if, if you like what you're

(01:13:24):
listening to.
is m this is of an Addict.
Thank you so much.
Have a great Monday.

Track 1 (01:13:32):
Thank you.

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Episode 11 - "Relapsing" with Brett... A GUEST, YOU SAY!?

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 11 - "Relapsing" with Brett... A GUEST, YOU SAY!?