Liberace Garage

Delve into the fascinating and intertwined histories of two legendary showmen – Liberace and Evel Knievel. Join us as Jonathan Warren explores remarkable stories of glitz, glamour, and daredevilry that shaped Las Vegas entertainment. From Liberace’s groundbreaking contributions to the Las Vegas show scene, including his dazzling cars and sumptuous costumes, to Evel Knievel's audacious stunts and his indomitable courage, this episode offers an exclusive look into the legacies of these iconic figures. 

Grab merch at www.EvelKnievelMuseum.com

Episode Transcript

Jonathan Warren (00:00):
Elvis comes in, and he's playing with a

(00:02):
orchestra at the Last Frontier,across the street from Liberace
but he bombs.
And by the third day they'reabout done with him.
He's not the Elvis we knowlater.
His style is very muchrockabilly and gospel.
He doesn't have the dancingstyle yet that gets him in
trouble on TV later.
He doesn't have the costuming atall yet, when he first comes to
Vegas.

(00:23):
Colonel Tom Parker askedLiberace to come to the show and
critique it.
And he sat in the audience,watched the show, came to see
them afterwards, and the famousquote was,"The act needs more
glitz, kid."

Heather (00:34):
Evel Knievel inspired millions of us with his courage
and perseverance.
We're building a museum so youcan relive those memories and be
reinvigorated with that spiritof bravery.

Evel Knievel (00:46):
My name is Evel Knievel.
I'm a professional daredevil.

Heather (00:50):
Along the way, we meet people involved in the life, the
times, and the legacy of theKing of Daredevils.
Here with their stories is yourhost, Joe Friday.

Frank Gifford (01:02):
...and he will go.

Joe P (01:05):
Hey, greetings from the Liberace Garage.
This is Jonathan.
He's the director.

Jonathan Warren (01:10):
Hello.

Joe P (01:11):
I've never been here before, but welcome.
Yeah, thank you, It's reallynice of

Jonathan Warren (01:16):
It's good to have the Evel Knievel,
representative in the house.

Joe P (01:20):
We're in front of Liberace's ultra patriotic car
here.
Yes

Jonathan Warren (01:23):
Yes.
Yes, this is the'52 rolls RoyceSilver Dawn that he uh used in
his 1976 Bicentennial show andthen later he used it in his
show celebrating the hundredthanniversary of the Statue of
Liberty, also.
So, yeah, a great patrioticpaint job on there that he had

(01:44):
to get permission for from RollsRoyce, actually.
Which is

Joe P (01:48):
typical.
You had to get permission fromRolls Royce to change the paint
job?

Jonathan Warren (01:52):
That's the general idea if you want to keep
a good relationship with RollsRoyce, yes.
Yeah.
and so he

Joe P (01:57):
did.
Did they give him the car?

Jonathan Warren (01:59):
No.
He bought the car he didn't buyit new in 52.
He bought it in the 1970s andpainted it.
It was originally green, and hepainted it the red, white, and
blue.

Joe P (02:08):
How did you become acquainted with the Liberace
museum?

Jonathan Warren (02:12):
I became acquainted with it because I
grew up in Las Vegas.
Same way I became acquaintedwith Evel Knievel.
If you grow up in Las vegas,you're going to know, these two
guys, so, this is, this was hewas always so prolific.
Even when I was a kid.

Joe P (02:24):
Did your parents take you to Liberace shows?
Evel

Jonathan Warren (02:27):
Knievel?
Nope.
Neither one.
Just television, all the time.
You see them all on televisionall the time.
And both on the news, as well ason advertisements for whatever
shows or promotions were goingon for whatever they were doing.
You

Joe P (02:41):
constantly.
yeah.
Liberace created, he created theLas Vegas show that we think of
today, that we see today.
today.
That's accurate.
Whether it's Celine or Adele orprobably even

Jonathan Warren (02:51):
Garth Brooks.
And I think just about all ofthose people will tell you The
Las vegas Weekly in 2013 evensaid that all, virtually all, of
modern showmanship is traceableto or through Liberace, because
there's so many techniques hecreates that work so well that
everybody, of course, uses them.

Joe P (03:08):
Yeah, one of them on the television show, I was surprised
to see, is the dancing waters.

Jonathan Warren (03:12):
Ha Yeah, it's fun to tell people the fountains
at Bellagio were started behindLiberace on stage at the Las
Vegas Hilton.
That's where

Joe P (03:20):
it's generated from.
Yeah, that's no joke.
It's not an exaggeration to saythat.
They look like the Bellagio

Jonathan Warren (03:26):
It is the same mechanism, it's the same motion,
and it is the same company thatbuilt both.

Joe P (03:33):
Yeah.
I mean that one, he says on theshow that it's a person
backstage that's pulling leverson it like the Wizard of Oz.
Yeah, originally it was.
He had what, was like a water dJwho would manipulate the
fountains to go with whatever hewas playing.
and knew what he was going toplay.
But he later, they advanced itso that it would go
automatically to the music.

(03:54):
And So that was also during histenure with the Dancing Waters

Jonathan Warren (03:57):
show.

Joe P (03:57):
We also give a lot of credit for bling.
Yeah.
for Panaz,

Jonathan Warren (04:01):
for everything.
Yeah.
Bling, as they call it now, wasreally something he invented.
And I think he elevated it toglitz, where it's the whole
overall feeling of that sort ofover the top fashion and luxury,
for the fun of it.
It's

Joe P (04:14):
definitely a liberace product.
And it became, part of the Vegasshow.

Jonathan Warren (04:17):
And Did he have showgirls in his show too?
He did.
He, In fact, he was the first totake showgirls on

Joe P (04:22):
in Las Vegas.

Jonathan Warren (04:24):
Back

Joe P (04:24):
What?
Back in the 1940s.
yeah.
Are you telling me there weren'tshows with just showgirls?
Liberace brought them.

Jonathan Warren (04:30):
That's right.
That's right.
Showgirls in the way you thinkof them in las vegas really
begin in Las Vegas right at thebeginning of the 1950s, and
especially takes off in 1959.
And that's because of the Frenchproduction shows.
French production shows are thereason why, Las Vegas had
topless showgirls that weremainstream shows, all up and

(04:52):
down the Strip.
And no other city in the countryhad that going on.
And those shows all came fromFrance.
They were licensed to play here.
So you had Casino de Parisbeginning in 1963.
Lido de Paris, folies Bergère,Crazy Girls, all came from
Paris.
That's where the showgirlsreally become a big part of the
Las Vegas Strip.
And the first ones on stage arewith

Joe P (05:14):
Liberace frontier Hotel.
Where
was the Frontier Hotel?

Jonathan Warren (05:18):
The Last Frontier, it was where, it is
right now an empty lot.
Between right next to theFashion Show Mall, and right
across the

Joe P (05:28):
street

Jonathan Warren (05:28):
from the Wynn.
Wynn So It was originally theLast Frontier, then later it
became the

Joe P (05:33):
New Frontier.

Jonathan Warren (05:34):
And then it was the frontier.

Joe P (05:36):
Okay.

C0227 Camera Interview (05:36):
one.

Jonathan Warren (05:38):
went from last to

Joe P (05:38):
new to just

Jonathan Warren (05:40):
to just the lot.
Showgirls he brought.

Joe P (05:42):
And

Jonathan Warren (05:42):
then he brought a presence To himself, to the
performer himself.
Sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that relationship with theaudience that was so key to Las
Vegas success in that era.
The showroom where the performeris interacting with the
audience, has a relationshipwith the audience, talks to the
audience, and the audience feelslike they know him.

(06:04):
It has them coming back manytimes to see the same show,
which they don't do in so muchin today's era, where the show
is much more removed from theaudience.
That was a key

Joe P (06:15):
to that success in that era.
The Frontier must've had ashowroom there.
At some point he moves to theInternational Theater.

Jonathan Warren (06:22):
He moves from the Last Frontier, he moves
across the street in 1955 tothe, in april of 55 he cuts the
ribbon at the riviera across thestreet.
So the Riviera, or down thestreet really, becomes the
location of the first everresidency show.
And that's Liberace in theClover Room Theater there in
1955.
And that is a huge success.

(06:42):
He's the highest paidentertainer in the world at that
point.
at 50 thousand dollars a week.
it's only a 750 seat

Joe P (06:48):
theater.
So,

Jonathan Warren (06:49):
that's quite the accomplishment.
50, 000

Joe P (06:52):
50 thousand dollars

Jonathan Warren (06:52):
week a 750 seat theater.
He goes from there later toseveral other places he plays.
But in 1972, he signed at whathad been the International.
and had just changed names tothe Las Vegas hilton.
And Baron Hilton had taken itover.
And he was signed to play, to beresidency there in the off
months from Elvis in sameshowroom.

(07:12):
So he and Elvis played the sameshowroom from 1972 to 1977 most
people don't realize that.

Joe P (07:19):
You can really understand how the relationship with the
audience works when you

Jonathan Warren (07:23):
understand that it's only 750 seats.
Yes, exactly.
And you realize also, they'reobviously overpaying him.
I'm sure, I don't have theearnings what the theater was,
I'm sure it wasn't 50, 000dollars a week that they were
netting.
What they were doing was havingLiberace on that marquee to fill
the hotel,

Joe P (07:41):
which filled

Jonathan Warren (07:42):
the casino, which filled the the pockets.
And

Joe P (07:45):
model still exists.
He wasn't like a grab everythingyou can guy at the time.
I understand it is 50

Jonathan Warren (07:52):
Always a very generous personality, always
supporting the community.
He was a real Las Vegan.
He really supported the artshere back before that was a cool
thing to do.
He's talking about it back in1975, he's talking about it on
camera on a tV specialcelebrating the birthday of las
vegas.
He's talking about the differentballet companies we have and so
forth.
and he's touting the arts in Las

Joe P (08:13):
Vegas

Jonathan Warren (08:14):
back

C0227 Camera Interview (08:14):
when

Jonathan Warren (08:14):
nobody was touting the arts the arts in Las
Vegas.

Joe P (08:16):
And established a scholarship for what, young
artists?

Jonathan Warren (08:19):
Many.
I mean to this day, there areendowment funds at over a dozen
universities that were lodgedthere by the Liberace
Foundation, and they still giveaway Liberace scholarships every
year.
They're not huge, they're, butthey're scholarships meant to
help people in the performingand creative arts.
And there are many of thosearound the country still today.
He was generous with his adviceto up and coming stars.

(08:43):
Yeah, very much.
I think he was so Yeah.
I think he had so muchexperience in what it takes to
practice like that, to be socompletely immersed in years and
years of practice.
don't think he ever worriedabout anybody being able to copy
his act.
So he didn't really have anytrade secrets.

(09:04):
He would happily tell anybodyhow he did what he did, and know
that it wouldn't be somethingthat would hurt his ability to
continue doing it.
He was very confident that way.
And a lot of people over theyears have told me the things
that he did to help them.
Including Siegfried and Roy, infact.
They were friends of Liberace,of course.
Siegfried used to tell me thatwhen they came to Las vegas, he
was astounded to find thatLiberace spoke to them as equals

(09:27):
in 1970.
He felt so empowered by this.
Liberace was absolutely thegodfather of their brand of
showmanship, and they werealways very just surprised at
how gracious he was to them.
Siegfried told me that Liberacetaught them how to read a Las
Vegas audience.
He told me that he taught themhow Vegas is different than
every other audience becausehere audience is on tour and

(09:50):
you've got to be stationary andput on the show of your life.
All those sort of nuances werepart of that.
And

Joe P (09:55):
they were great friends of

Jonathan Warren (09:56):
Liberace had very big admirers of his because
of that.

Joe P (09:59):
Now that you

Jonathan Warren (09:59):
mentioned

Joe P (10:00):
it, now I can see liberace in Siegfield and Roy.

Jonathan Warren (10:02):
Absolutely.
They came to Las Vegas off acruise ship or?
Yeah, they started on a cruiseship, I understand.
And also eventually landed inMonaco.
So their first big cat show wasin monte Carlo.
And they had a cheetah namedJohnny the Cheetah.
Johnny the Cheetah smelled thekitchen in the Summer Sporting,
which is the showroom there inMonte Carlo.
And ran off through theaudience.
Which caused a huge commotion,but it was also a huge hit.

(10:25):
they were a huge hit.
So they were a big hit in MonteCarlo, and they also were signed
and realized that Las Vegas wasa place to go.
Soon after, they were here.
That was 1967.
they're here in 1970.

Joe P (10:37):
that how their show ended also?

Jonathan Warren (10:40):
Ended, how do you mean?

Joe P (10:41):
With a loose cat?

Jonathan Warren (10:42):
Oh, more or less.
Something similar.
But they always had loose cats.
Cat was always loose.
They always had, when I sawtheir show back in the early
Eighties, there was a gianttiger on a shelf above

Joe P (10:52):
my head.

Jonathan Warren (10:53):
There was always cats in the showroom.

Joe P (10:55):
About Liberace's

C0227 Camera Interview (10:57):
7th

Jonathan Warren (10:58):
In the What specific did he take under his
wing?
There were a lot protégés thathe actually took under his wing
that were musicians, pianists.
Guys like Jamie RedfernAustralia, lots of people who
became performers.
Most famous of them Siegfriedand Roy, he gave advice to, I
wouldn't say it was so much hetook them under his wing, but he
certainly gave advice to themthat they appreciated, and I was
told that directly by Siegfried.

(11:19):
Under his wing, I would say themost famous of those was Barbara
Streisand.
In 1961, he sees her singing ina bar in The west village.
and ultimately she's recruitedin 1962 to play the opening act.
to be the opening act forliberace's show in las Vegas.
And She until 1964, I believe.
By that time was quite a hit.

(11:39):
And was recruited from there toplay the starring role in Funny
Girl.
There was a lot between

Video Sep 17 2024 (11:46):
opening

Jonathan Warren (11:46):
up for Liberace and becoming In 62 when she
comes here her show is nottaking off, so to speak.
The opening of the show is not ahit and they make a few
adjustments.
Liberace winds up doing theopening number and then
introducing her so the crowdrealizes that she's something
he's recommending, not justsomebody who happens be there.
In 1973, he said I had to sellher on the value of glamour.

(12:08):
And, she obviously picks it up.
because she's quite glamorous by1964 in Las Vegas.
In the show she looks fantastic.
and she's glammed up, andthey're doing a great show, and
it's a big success.
Yeah, but she evolves in LasVegas for sure.
I think Las Vegas had a bigimpact on her.
and Las Vegas, if you're goingto talk about the Las Vegas
Strip,

Joe P (12:25):
the personification of the

Jonathan Warren (12:26):
Las Vegas Strip in my book is always going to be
Liberace.
He is the reason Las Vegas lookslike Las Vegas.
There are a lot of otherinfluences, including Knievel
who was a huge influenceinfluence when I was a kid here.
If you're not going to do hisvoice.

C0227 Camera Interview (12:40):
No,

Video Sep 17 2024 (12:41):
don't

Jonathan Warren (12:41):
I don't do a Liberace

Joe P (12:43):
I'm doing it then.
Don't be offended.
Cover your ears.
He said of Barbra Streisand,"Ihad to get her out of those
miserable tablecloths and intosome some proper fashion."

Jonathan Warren (12:54):
he didn't say say that.

Joe P (12:55):
Who said it?

Jonathan Warren (12:57):
The one who said, tell her to stop wearing
tablecloths." Yes.
was Mr.
Blackwell.
He was the sartorial critic inthe LA times and other places.
He was sort of Joan Rivers

Joe P (13:08):
before Joan

Jonathan Warren (13:09):
He's the one who said, tell her to

Joe P (13:10):
stop wearing tablecloths.

Jonathan Warren (13:11):
did she do that?
Ultimately, yeah she dressed itup.
I don't think she was phased bywhat he said, by the way.
She was, as strong personalityas she is now.
and I don't think she was phasedby that at all.
When she was first signed in LasVegas, the critics panned her.
And he was one of the criticswho Mr.
Blackwell was a sartorialcritic, so he's he is, of course
talking about how she's dressed.

(13:32):
Others also panned her.
Basically because she wasn'tfitting the Las Vegas sort of
show.
She wasn't glamorous, she wasn'tdressed up and whatnot.
But her talent was undeniable.
And even though people weren'tapplauding, and even though the
newspapers were haranguing her,and even though the riviera
Hotel was telling Liberace in nouncertain terms to get rid of
her, what he told them, this isa quote.

(13:55):
He said, this, he said,"She willbe one of the great stars of our
time.
The woman is a mix of Fannybryce, carol burnett, and judy
Garland." Fanny Bryce?
Yeah, she actually, leaves

Joe P (14:06):
to star as Fanny Bryce

Jonathan Warren (14:08):
Funny Girl.
Yeah.
There you go.
He, yeah, absolutely.
So he nailed it, and everybodyelse was wrong.
And what, when he first signedher to the show was through his
manager Seymour Heller.
and Seymour was not convincedabout her.
He said, she's not stage ready.
And Lee said she can learn allof that.
He said, but her pipes, meaningher voice and her comedic timing

(14:29):
are dead on.
So knew that when he saw it.
right?
And so, he knew that was goingto work, and sure enough, he was
right.

Joe P (14:36):
She's, he did have, all the, she was that combination
especially in those early days.
We give Colonel Tom Parker a lotof credit for doing similar
things to for Elvis.
To Elvis, maybe.
But I don't think it reallyclicked until Liberace went to
go see a young rock and rollhayseed

Jonathan Warren (14:59):
Elvis.

Joe P (15:00):
what advice did he have for him?

Jonathan Warren (15:03):
Yeah, so in 56, a lot of people think Elvis
ended up in Las Vegas in the70s.
He didn't.
He planned his career around LasVegas and it's obvious when you
look at the history.
and he's very smart about it.
The colonel of course is a verycalculated guy who is

(15:24):
understands a lot about thebusiness and how to get things
done as everybody knows.
Whether good or bad.
The Elvis, though, also was wisebeyond his years, I think, in
determining what was going to bepopular.
And he comes to vegas in 1956.
He's 21 years old.
He tried to come earlier.
In fact, as soon as he signedthe Colonel, which was only
about six months before that,they tried to come to Vegas, but

(15:47):
he was only 20 years old.
He couldn't even check into ahotel room on his own.
The town didn't want him yet.
and So, they postponed that.
And he the Colonel books him forsix months later, or so, in Las
Vegas in april of 56.
Elvis comes in, and he's playingwith a orchestra at the last
frontier.
Across the street from liberaceby that time.
at the at the, Riviera.

(16:07):
And Elvis comes in, and he's gota 13 day gig, but he bombs.
And by the third day they'reabout done with him.
And the reason he bombs thoughis not people think of the elvis
that we know later.
it's not that show at all.
And he's not the Elvis we knowlater.
He's very young.
He's 21.
21 year old rock and roller outof the south right?
So he's, his style.

(16:27):
is very much rockabilly andgospel.
He's got Heartbreak Hotel, buthe doesn't have Hound Dog yet.
He's got he doesn't have thedancing style yet that gets him
in trouble on TV later.
He doesn't have quite the vocalstyle that he gets later.
He doesn't have the costuming atall yet.
It's very much those two tonesuits that he would wear, and
this sort of thing, when hefirst comes to vegas.

(16:49):
The Colonel Tom Parker askedliberace to come to the show and
critique it.
And he sat in the audience,watched the show, came to see
them afterwards, and the famousquote was,"The act needs more
glitz, kid." Elvis 21, Liberace36 at the time hit it off.
And Elvis came to Liberace'sshow, and they did some
interaction there on the stage.
And so they did a bunch of photoops together, and this sort of

(17:11):
thing.
and they became friendly andthey knew each other for many
years after this.
And they were neighbors in Palmsprings for a while as well.
On display in Graceland, there'sa dune buggy, a glossy black,
shiny, glamorous dune buggy thatElvis owned that he bought from
Liberace.
And so that was in Palm Springs,when everybody was driving dune
buggies.
One time liberace had Elvis anda few other people over for

(17:32):
dinner.
and the Liberace had bought thisblack dune buggy and he hung a
chandelier in it, of course.
and Had it all glossed up forthe street.
And Elvis saw it and loved it,and he bought it.
And he took the chandelier out,But otherwise it's the same,
yeah, funny stuff, but, Elviscomes to Vegas at that point and
Liberace that's the main advicehe gives him.
But he picks up a lot of otheradvice in Las Vegas from guys

(17:53):
like Freddie Bell and theBellboys, and from Roy Hamilton
Sr., the R& B singer, who hadsung at the Moulin rouge, which
had just closed down.
And he picks up the dancing fromFred Bell, as well as some other
technique.
can and the song, and Yeah andand also yes, he dances like
Elvis before Elvis.
And Elvis saw him at the Saharahotel.

(18:15):
And also asked Freddie if hecould record the song that
Freddie was singing.
Elvis knew the song, but he knewa different version of it, and
Freddie had rewritten thelyrics.
and it was Hound Dog.
The original version was sung byBig Mama thornton in Tennessee,
and it was and Elvis had heardthat version.
that was written for a woman tosing.
different lyrics.
And it was really raunchy, so itwas hard to put on a record.
But Freddie had rewritten it, soit's these benign lyrics that we

(18:37):
know now that Elvis sung.
Elvis asked him if he couldrecord it, Freddie said yes,
Elvis recorded it, sold billionsof copies, and three months
later, that's the song he'sopening with everywhere.
It's also three months later,when he goes on the Milton Berle
show, where Elvis starts dancingthe way we know him to dance.
And he picks that up from Freddyin Las Vegas, and he does it
first time, he does next timehe's on television.

(18:58):
And that's a, It causes acommotion.
you know they're everybody goescrazy.
And then he goes on to the, fromthere the Ed Sullivan show and
they're like, don't film himbelow the waist.
So, that all comes from Lasvegas.
so, Elvis Learned a lot in LasVegas.
A good amount from Liberace, butalso from others, in 1956.
The other thing that i thinkpeople don't realize he picked

(19:19):
up here, the Colonel picked up,was that the reason Liberace was
such a hit was that he alreadyhad a national audience.
National, not just a few states,not just one area, not just one
genre of music.
And so this national audiencewas coming in because he had
been on television.
So even people who weren't somuch big fans of the music might
come to the show just becausethey know the guy.

(19:40):
So they'd see him, before theyeven come to town they know he's
playing here.
And they're coming straight fromthe airport into his show.
So the Colonel's going,realizing that this is because
he's got a national audience.
So he realizes got to make sureElvis gets a national audience
right away.
Doesn't do it with television,but right after he leaves Las
Vegas, he accepts his firstmovie role.
Over the next 13 years, he makes22 movies.

(20:01):
Becomes really, a matinee

Joe P (20:02):
idol, and takes that audience back with him into
Vegas in 1969 with a vengeanceman into the International
Hotel.
I love that.
Had you not showed me, theLiberace outfits, which I'd seen
on television.
I've read stories about that.
I wasn't old enough to remember,but he's the first guy that's
looking into the camera andwinks.

(20:24):
And home audiences are and saidI freak out because they think
he can see them through thetelevision.
Yeah,

Jonathan Warren (20:32):
so there's a phenomenon that happens there.
Liberace is the first major starto look into the camera crossing
that third wall, I think theycalled it, at the time.
Everybody told you don't look atthe camera when you're on
television.
That was, the technique.
It Was you don't look at thecamera, and that makes the
audience feel like they'regetting to watch you from a

(20:53):
special place, and this kind ofa mentality.
And Liberace had seen a fairamount of it.
He carefully watched.
other performers on television,and he knew of one named Korla
Pandit.
And Korla Pandit was an organplayer.
Supposedly a Punjabi Indianorgan player in Los Angeles.

(21:13):
And he would play these hauntingtunes on the organ.
And he would wear this turbanwith a diamond hanging off of
it.
and He looked very dreamy eyedand he'd look into the camera
and women would swoon.
And it was just a phenomenalthing.
And, he was a big hit.
And he had gone on vacation.

(21:34):
He went on vacation actuallywhen Liberace was getting on
television and he copied thattechnique of looking into the
camera.
And he definitely knew KorlaPandit was the one doing this.
And he definitely copied thattechnique from Korla.
Korla was not nearly as big astar.
This was a technique Liberacepicked up from somebody else,
and did it himself, and then thewink is all his.

(21:55):
and that just was absolutely aphenomenon.
There's even cartoons writtenabout this.
Like in newspapers.
Where there's a guy sitting on acouch with his feet up.
And his t shirt, watchingtelevision.
And his wife is comingdownstairs and she's all dolled
up with earrings on andeverything, and she says,"Get
dressed, Liberace is going to beon in five minutes." in five

(22:18):
minutes.
had many people tell me thattheir grandmother always got
dressed because knew it wasn'tthe case, but she felt like he
could see her.

Joe P (22:28):
Nobody gets dressed to fly on a plane anymore.
Nobody

Jonathan Warren (22:30):
Exactly.
wrong with this world?
It's a fun era, right?
Yeah, that was a wholephenomenon he caused then.
And that, that had a lot to dowith his ability to take that
audience with him for many moreyears.
He's only on TV in 52 and 53,but he's the most syndicated in
the country, at 220 stations.
Virtually every TV in thecountry in 1952 and 1953

Joe P (22:52):
had Liberace on it.

Video Sep 17 2024 (22:53):
it.

Jonathan Warren (22:53):
Everybody knew this guy.
Where would I know I saw him

Joe P (22:56):
him on television.
when I was a child.
Two

Jonathan Warren (22:59):
especially if it's a show.
First of all, reruns of thatshow which will continue
continue to rerun forever,

C0227 Camera Interview (23:05):
is still around.
Exactly.

Jonathan Warren (23:07):
out there.

Joe P (23:07):
And then

C0227 Camera Interview (23:07):
I'm

Jonathan Warren (23:09):
show.

Joe P (23:09):
I'm sure it's in color though.

Jonathan Warren (23:11):
It's in color?
Yeah.
If it's in color, it's theEnglish show.
So there was a Liberace show inlondon, and it went for six
months.
And that's the one where hecomes out of the door and he
sits at the piano.
He's always got a guest it's incolor.
He's in these great costumes.
It's more of a intimate setting.
Here he's at a piano there's astudio audience, but you don't
see them and it's a smallersetting.

(23:32):
a lot of comedy with it also,which was, it's a variety show.
But it always starts with amusical number by him and he's
always in an elaborate costumeand, yeah, classic Liberace.
That's a really popular, thoseare really popular cuts from
that show.
Our audience in Great Britain isyounger because that show was in
the 60s, his show in the US wasin the early 50s, so it was a
different audience.

(23:52):
Coming through the collectionshere, and at Thriller Villa and
other places it's about 25percent Britons coming right off
the plane to see Liberace.
And they're more my generation,or early Generation X, than the
baby boomers, which is whatotherwise would come.
His original fan base in Americais long gone.

(24:12):
They'd be 140 now.
So it's all new now.
It's all, he's got quite thefollowing among Millennials and
even Gen Z people in tune to popculture and the genesis of a lot
of the things that are wellknown in pop culture.
That come from Liberace.

Joe P (24:29):
Has a very trademark style that's a lot of glitz.
Yeah.
But when I would see him ontelevision, it looks like he's
wearing a Victorian outfit withruffles on the sleeves, ruffles
down the front, a big bow tie, avest, a jacket on top of that.
But when you showed me how thatworks, that's not 1, 000

(24:50):
buttons.
buttons

Jonathan Warren (24:51):
That's one zipper.
Yeah, yeah, usually that's thecase.
And also, jumpsuits with quickreleases in the back.
And, he would change costumes sofast.
You still see people remarkabout this.
He could change so quickly, andIt's partly because they
invented in his costuming, someof the techniques that they
still use today, for quickchanging like that.
And people often thought, eventhough he would sometimes change

(25:13):
live on TV, come and gobackstage and come back out.
And they thought it was specialeffects, even though it wasn't.
Because of how quickly he coulddo it.
it The costumes were designedfor it.
Yeah.
We still have those costumes.
I loved them.
They were so incredible, soornate, but that's what really
rocked me.
This This is Elvis.
This is Liberace who influencedElvis.

(25:36):
He, Liberace influences, ofcourse, a lot of people in
costuming.
and there's influences onLiberace.
I can tell you early on, he wasinfluenced by Gorgeous george,
the wrestler.
Gorgeous george is now isrecognized as the first pop
culture icon.
And he was the heel in wrestlingthat everybody loved to hate, so
Gorgeous George would show up,he'd be in a floor length cape

(25:56):
with rings on every finger.
and, he'd have his hair allpressed and curled back.
and he'd have, and he dyedblonde.
He'd have He's a big, huge,macho dude.
He'd wear a pink robe withfeathers on it and stuff, and
he'd come strutting in allhaughty and he'd have a
assistant in front of himspraying perfume, because, It
stinks in here," just snobbingit up, and, the crowd loved to
hate him.

(26:17):
And that fashion idea of hiswith the floor length capes,
especially, Liberace picked upon.
And so did James Brown.
The earliest floor length capeof Liberace we have is from
1956.
1956 And And that's the red,white, and blue one like this.

Joe P (26:32):
Speaking of red, white, and blue Evel Knievel's got
quite a story about how hesecured his contract at Caesars
Palace.
It's a series of prank phonecalls to Jay Sarno.
That's excellent.
Yeah, he calls up and says,"Thisis Evel Knievel, I want to jump
your fountains." And Sarno says,"Never heard of you kid." Hangs
up.
So Evel starts to call as if heis somebody.

(26:54):
Hi, it's John Williams fromABC's Wide World of Sports.
I understand this Evel Knievelkid is going to jump your
fountains.
What time does that start?
Never heard of it." Click.
Hi, it's Tammy Smith from SportsIllustrated.
My boss wants me to come thereand take pictures of Evel
Knievel jumping on New year'sEve.
What time does that start?
Yeah, once Evel secured thespot, he understands this is not
a dirt track.
This is not where they're goingto see you jump between the

(27:16):
heats and the main event.
This is Caesar's Palace.
It's the real deal.
And as Liberace would haveprobably told him, Put some
glitz on it.
on it.
Yeah.

Jonathan Warren (27:27):
So he has a special suit made, red, white,
and blue, at that point.
Before that it was not.
Yeah, I remember it.
And that that was absolutely thebiggest thing going on.
you didn't hear about anythingelse at the time.
It was absolutely huge.
And that whole technique, thathe employs there to get that
done, is so showmanship.
It's it so mirrors so manystories of Liberace and other

(27:51):
stars that I know who werepromoting themselves in the
early days that.
and just incredible work justhaving the audacity to okay, I'm
just going to call this guy upand I'll be so and I'll get the,
I think it's the press and we'lljust get this going.
It's just incredible.
And, it absolutely worked forhim.
I remember all sorts of stuntsthat Evel Knievel was talking

(28:14):
about doing or doing in LasVegas in those days and if he
wasn't doing it, he was planningone and talking about it and
just the conversation would bejust crazy.
It would just be fever pitch onall the news stations and the
radios and ev everybody will betalking about it.
The ultimate showman outside

C0227 Camera Interview (28:32):
of the showroom.

Jonathan Warren (28:34):
Just so my people know.
Yeah.
Without Liberace, there's nocape.
Jewelry, furs.
Liberace

C0227 Camera Interview (28:41):
didn't invent the

Jonathan Warren (28:42):
furs,

C0227 Camera Interview (28:42):
first one.

Joe P (28:43):
man,

Jonathan Warren (28:43):
to another level.
Yeah, Was this the same furrierthey used, to think?
I don't know.
It's a good question we shouldcheck Anna Natis is liberace's
furrier.
Ray Lenoble was married to AnnaNatis.
Ray Lenoble was a furrier fromway back and he when Anna Natis
moved to Las Vegas in 1974, Iwant to say might have been as
early as 72.
She marries Ray Lenoble and shewas a fashion designer.

(29:06):
Ray quickly realizes she's evenbetter than he is at fur.
She manipulates fur likenobody's business.
And she creates these works ofart, and everybody's got to have
it.
So Ray, who was a very smooth,very slick salesman and
promoter, changes gears andbuilds her brand instead.
So sometimes you get the labelsthat are Ray Lenovo and Anna
Natis throughout.

(29:26):
the, So if you see those labels,you know that's who he's working
with.
Wouldn't surprise me at all thatfur studio.
was the Dunes Hotel and theriviera.
They had two locations in thosedays.
She got Don King as a client.
That's why all the fighters werewearing furs.
And, in the fur era in Vegas, ifyou had fur, it had to be Natis.
That was the thing.
There's a casino.
even, the movie Casino.
And the furs in that are made bynatis.

(29:49):
They were worn by Sharon Stone.
Sharon stone's playing a realperson.
The real person was JerryRosenthal.
Her furs were made by Natis.
So, it goes way back in Vegas.
Yeah, Anna Natis was absolutelya one of a kind.
And No, she passed away twoyears ago.
She was a very dear friend ofmine.
she was phenomenal.
The most intuitive person I evermet.

(30:09):
You'd be in a room full ofpeople

Joe P (30:10):
with

Jonathan Warren (30:10):
Anna Anna Natis.
She'd not only see them all,she'd see right through them
all.
She was incredible.
shared

Joe P (30:17):
They shared a jeweler, mordecai.

C0227 Camera Interview (30:19):
Yeah, sure.

Jonathan Warren (30:19):
Mordecai did a lot of work on Liberace's
jewels, for sure.
In fact, he's one of the latestones.
Mordecai cleaned the jewels forme in order to have them go on
exhibit at the Paris Museum ofModern Art, So, that's a good
claim to fame right there.
Liberace's jewels, there are noless than a dozen jewelers who
claim to have made his mostprolific jewels.

(30:40):
none of them are signed, whichis astounding.
so we don't know.
We don't think mordecai made theprimary.
ones.
We know he made some of thelesser known pieces that weren't
so much the stage pieces.
We know he made those.
He's also got, there's a, forinstance, a black piano ring I
know he made.
There's a black piano ringthat's amazing that I know
Mordecai made.
It's confusing also becausethere are, over the years, for

(31:02):
example, there's severaldifferent candelabra rings.
that Liberace wore.
So when you say candelabra ring,it sounds like one ring.
It could be more than one thatwe're talking about.
So I'm not saying anybody'slying.
I'm just saying that it's just,it's more nebulous than it seems
when you're trying to figure outwho made these things.
We've had them put underelectron microscopes to try and
find signature.
And we're talking about ringsthat have 1, 500 hours to make,

(31:26):
and nobody signed them.
There's one that very much looksto be looks like it was made by
the designers who made thebrooches and a few of the rings
for Queen Elizabeth in London.
Liberace says that ring, saidthat ring was made by her
jewelers.
It's possible.
We don't know.
It's not signed.

(31:46):
It looks like their design.
It's their style.
but don't know.
It's hard to wrap your headaround them until you see them
in person.
Because of the sizes.
I didn't.

Joe P (31:54):
Are they still in Paris?

Jonathan Warren (31:55):
No, they're here.
We have them in a safetydeposit, but we show them from
time to time.
It just has to be the rightsituation.
Insurance wise and everythingelse to do it.
But we do exhibit sometimes.
The other thing is, I think oneof the things also that where I
also notice, there's comparisonbetween Knievel is in Vegas when
these guys are not performing,they were dapper as can be, it

(32:16):
wasn't Liberace in capes on thestreet.
He just dressed really nice whenhe's out and about.
And so did Evel Knievel.
I think people miss that a lotof the time because they're so
distracted by everything else.
Else.
But this guy was a dapper dude,man.
Evel Knievel.
He'd get dressed You can't beathim when it comes to the collar.
If you like your collar.
Hey man, you got your collarright?
here.
But, no, even even earlier onthere's some phenomenal photos.

(32:39):
I was like, people, He and Evel,they were really noticed.
I think Evel Knievel was adapper dude, man.
He liked to get dressed.

C0227 Camera Interview (32:44):
Yeah,

Jonathan Warren (32:46):
So true.

Joe P (32:47):
We're building a new museum, or we're bringing our
Evel Knievel Museum from Kansasto Las Vegas.
And so when we say we're moving,it's not like a U Haul and a
bunch of cardboard boxes.
Yeah, it's a little bigger thanthat.
We yeah, we're refurbishing abuilding, an ancient, not an
ancient.
If I call it ancient, it'd makeyou feel old because you might

(33:08):
remember the Mission Linen inoperation.

Jonathan Warren (33:11):
Yeah.
I do actually 20 or three.
Right.
What is that?
Is it linens for

Joe P (33:16):
hotels?
Yeah, it was linens for hotels.
Exactly.
Okay.
Tablecloths, sheets, napkins,sheets, towels, yeah, all that.

Jonathan Warren (33:23):
Yep.

Joe P (33:24):
I'm just trying to give people an understanding that
it's not going to close Fridayand open saturday.
So we'll be closed down for awhile we build it up.
And that's a bigger space, isn'tit?
Yeah,

Jonathan Warren (33:36):
much bigger.

Joe P (33:37):
So you're going to double the size.
yeah.
Plus it's got a pizza placeattached and a mothership
coffee's going to be there.
And, the pizza place is byBranden Powers who invented Evel
Pie.
Okay yeah.
But his new place is calledHeavy Metal Pizza.
yeah, It'll be good.
And you've got room to do somegreat exhibits and interactive
stuff, don't you?

(33:57):
yeah, Yeah, we'll have a virtualreality jump where you,
Jonathan, can strap on a VRgoggles And sit on a real XR 750
motorcycle like Evel Knievelused, all painted up.
And then wind blows in your facewhen you accelerate, backs off

(34:17):
when you're not, or you knowwhen you turn a corner.
That's great.
Left and right.
And you get to experience whatit feels like,

Jonathan Warren (34:24):
a big

Joe P (34:25):
rumbling platform, to jump over 17 police cars.

Video Sep 17 2024 (34:29):
Awesome.
Love

Jonathan Warren (34:31):
Love it.

Joe P (34:34):
Anyway, we're moving and I was just amazed at your
collection.
me your collection.
collection is at the HollywoodCar Museum?

Jonathan Warren (34:43):
Yeah.
We're sitting in the HollywoodCars Museum.
This is the section we callliberace garage and this space
is donated to us by theHollywood Cars Museum.
They partnered with us a longtime ago 2016, really, to do
this.
And they've been a wonderfulpartner for the Liberace
Foundation.
We wouldn't have been able tobring the cars into the public
without them.

(35:03):
And there's such a phenomenalthing to see.
Liberace's cars are an extensionof his costumes as were Evel
Knievel's motorcycles.
And so, they were on stage.
These are primarily stage cars

Video Sep 17 2024 (35:15):
would,

Jonathan Warren (35:15):
He would arrive on stage in a car driven by a
chauffeur, of course.
there you have it.
Yeah.
But it was a real, It felt likea secret invitation to come see
the Liberace collection.
During

C0227 Camera Interview (35:29):
like, earlier Liberace's

Jonathan Warren (35:30):
lifetime, he had a museum.
Yes.
Yeah, so the Liberace Museum wasopen in las vegas beginning in
1979.

Joe P (35:36):
1979.

Jonathan Warren (35:37):
Yeah.
And, He, prior to that.
he

Joe P (35:40):
had the collection

Jonathan Warren (35:41):
viewable at different places, primarily at
his home in the Hollywood Hillsat one point.
They made him close that downtoo many people started showing
up.
he, yeah, it was residential.
Yeah, Exactly.
And so he eventually he had a,He also had an interior design
company in Los Angeles and hewould show he had his, really
over the top antiques there.

(36:01):
But it was an antique shop andhe didn't want to sell anything.
So he would put sold signs oneverything.
Everybody would just go see it.
It's Basically a museum.
In 79 he finally opens a,legitimate museum in las vegas.

Joe P (36:14):
And

Jonathan Warren (36:15):
the Liberace Museum.
and remained open until 2010,2010 actually, in that location.
Blew my

Joe P (36:21):
mind.
So it's not an old dustytrinkets where you're going to
find a gremlin cage

Jonathan Warren (36:26):
No, nothing like that.
It was Chopin's piano?
Yeah, it's the real deal.
We have 18 pianos.
eight, eight of his stage cars,18 pianos, probably 36
chandeliers another probably 28candelabras about a hundred
costumes and capes, the Liberacejewels his Emmys, his just
hundreds of awards ofappreciation from all sorts of

(36:49):
places he raised money for, andYeah.
all of that sort of thing.
thing.
own treasures, He has, hiscollection he has silver that
was owned by Valentino.
He has crystal that was owned byNapoleon.
He has china that was owned byJohn F.
Kennedy.
All within Liberace'scollection.
So, it's things with its ownprovenance.
Even before, he used to say, Idon't really own these.
I'm just taking care of them.

(37:11):
So it's a tremendous collection.
And as far as show business goesespecially when you include the
historic documents in the showbusiness.
collection.
It's one of the largest, longesttime spanning, and most
important.
show business collections in theworld.
So it's a phenomenal collection.
and it's not all in, it's not,it's impossible to show it all
in one place.

(37:31):
Crated, it's about 15, 000 cubicfeet.
Exhibited it's the ground floorof the Smithsonian.
You would, especially because ofdocuments, if you were to really
show everything you've got, youreally get into this huge
exhibit, and it's just mindblowing.
people see it.
And they, because it's, itspeaks to that influence of
Liberace over those years.
He's got a long career thatspans a lot of different eras,

(37:56):
and has a lot of differentseasons of its own that he goes
through.
And a lot of stars go throughthose seasons.
There's all of this influencethrough that time span that you
see picked up by others, as yougo through it.
And, to be honest, I onlylearned a lot of that because of
these stars who come and see hiscollection and tell me that they

(38:17):
were influenced this way.
Or, they'll see one of ourhistoric photos here that
they're in, and they'll tell meabout what was happening in the
photo.
Dionne warwick was one of those.
who told me the story of one ofour photos here.
So this is just, it'sincredible, what happens.
And there's so many people stillaround who were involved with
Liberace when he was performing.

(38:38):
You still get a lot of peoplewho can tell stories, so we

Joe P (38:41):
record them as fast as

Jonathan Warren (38:42):
we can.
We get the stories as much as wecan.
I know those people are like, ontheir way out.
Yeah, I know it's the same withKnievel, right?
You to grab those people whileyou can,

Joe P (38:48):
We got to

Jonathan Warren (38:49):
get

Joe P (38:49):
this

Jonathan Warren (38:49):
museum open.
Yeah.

Video Sep 17 2024 (38:51):
Now! Yeah.

Joe P (38:52):
Now's better than tomorrow.

Jonathan Warren (38:53):
And then, yeah, but the guy's When he sets up
that jumping the fountains,that's an incredible story.
And that's great.
That's just a phenomenal thing.
And there's going to be peoplearound who were there then, that
you can interview.
You'll find them,

Joe P (39:07):
your museum.
In Las Vegas.
And

Jonathan Warren (39:09):
find them and they'll tell you the stories.

Joe P (39:11):
And on his way out, his last idea was also a big Vegas
deal.
What was that?
He proposed to jump out of anairplane into a haystack.
I remember that.
One of 13 haystacks.
Yes, and you'd bet on which onehe was going to land in?
Yeah, had his spleen removed sohe could jump out of an
airplane.
I don't know what that has to dowith it.
think

Jonathan Warren (39:31):
remember that.
I remember that, yes.
I remember my brother explainingto me why he had his spleen
removed.

C0227 Camera Interview (39:36):
it were.
Yeah.
That's the,

Jonathan Warren (39:39):
I was like, could you do anything for more
to get everybody watching?
you?
I don't

Joe P (39:45):
think Vegas, I don't think the authorities were too
crazy about him jumping out ofan airplane.
Yeah, it was over.
Yeah.
Oh man, was that after the

Jonathan Warren (39:54):
river?
Yes.
It was the final straw.
That was the last straw, as itwere?
Yeah, yeah, as it were.

Joe P (40:02):
So to speak, I remember that one.
I remember

Jonathan Warren (40:05):
that.
going to put a bunch ofhaystacks in a

C0227 Camera Interview (40:08):
the big lot and bet which one he

Jonathan Warren (40:10):
lands in, oh my god.
Yeah.
we're so

C0227 Camera Interview (40:13):
glad that

Jonathan Warren (40:13):
mentioned how and why it's not on display
Because it's just too massive tobe on display.
There's no way you could affordto rent the Smithsonian.
Yeah, and also, what we want todo is like any museum that's
personality driven, you want totell that story with those
artifacts, right?
With the artifacts we have, wecan tell that story probably

(40:35):
seven or eight times atdifferent locations.
It doesn't serve well the legacyto have it all in one place.
You can have multiple locations.
We have exhibits right now uh,there's one in uh, Spokane,
Washington we've got,celebrating the 50th anniversary
of the World's Fair therebecause Liberace played it.
There's various different placesacross the country, but we've
played the Met Gala in theMetropolitan Museum of Art New

(40:58):
York.
We played the Paris Museum ofModern Art.
We played the, the WIC in FortLauderdale with a costume
amazing costume exhibit therefor six months.
So, different things like that.
And it gets it out more, andmore people see.
And also, different pricepoints.
We have a free exhibit at theMet Gala.
Resorts World right now in thelobby of the conrad Hotel.
It's not a big exhibit, but it'sone of Liberace's pianos,

(41:20):
candelabra, some art.

Joe P (41:21):
And it's free, know, it's in the lobby.

Jonathan Warren (41:22):
So, we like to be able to get it out there
where people can see it fornothing as well as the really
substantial exhibits whereyou're paying a ticket to go see
like this one.
Do you feel like you'recompeting with yourself when you
exhibit for free at a

Joe P (41:34):
casino and then try to convince them

Jonathan Warren (41:36):
it's a teaser.
It'll,

Joe P (41:38):
If anything, if, they

Jonathan Warren (41:40):
if they understand it, comprehend it, if
they want to see more, they'regoing to find the rest.
and pay to see it, yeah.
we do get, where, is it?

Joe P (41:49):
about that?

Jonathan Warren (41:50):
they asked for it.

Joe P (41:51):
It's been there since it opened.

Jonathan Warren (41:52):
so it's three years now that it's been there
and, four, four years now sinceit's been there.
no, we're happy to see it tokeep it there.
Right now it's just the ResortsWorld, inside inside the lobby
of the of the Conrad hotelthere.
Right now, also, we still havewe've had for the past three
years the offices of the ClarkCounty Commission, in Ross
Miller's office, commissionerRoss Miller's office.

(42:15):
He created in his office, hecreated a retro Las Vegas hotel
room style designed conferenceroom out of his office.
And so you go in there andsuddenly you're back in the
fifties in vegas.
And it's completely liberace edout.
It's got a Liberace costumewe've got a whole exhibit in
there.

(42:35):
Big painting of Liberace inthere.
All from, it's all from theLiberace Museum collection.
And So that's a major exhibit.
That's public space.
Anybody can go in there.
You just got to tell them you'recoming and set an appointment to
go see it.
But they'll have you in it tocheck it out.
It's a great exhibit that RossMiller did.
and Ross's term ends in, I thinkin November so soon he'll be
gone.
and we're going to pick up thatand, take it back to Thriller

(42:56):
Villa in here and we'll seewhere it goes next, but that's
our two main ones in Las Vegasthat are free right now.
And other than that, it'sThriller Villa where our main
tour is which is the former homeof Michael Jackson, which we
also run.
And that property houses, uh,the major Liberace Museum
collection in storage there, insecure storage, then also,

C0227 Camera Interview (43:18):
uh,

Video Sep 17 2024 (43:18):
here,

Jonathan Warren (43:19):
at Liberace garage, of course

Joe P (43:20):
where we have the cars.
Okay, I'm so glad Thriller Villais open to the

Jonathan Warren (43:24):
public.
It's, I wouldn't say it's opento the public.
I wouldn't wanna share if I'mlooking at the archives or if
this is someplace somebody couldget tickets to.
Yeah.
insane.
Yeah, you can get in, it's notopen to the public, but you can
book it and we'll take youthrough on a tour and yes it is
possible to do, just go toeverything that we have to offer
someone.
liberacemuseum.com so

Video Sep 17 2024 (43:43):
It's

Jonathan Warren (43:43):
it's easy to go there and book it.

Joe P (43:45):
My daughter spent this summer in Las Vegas as an intern
at a variety show.
Which was a great experience.
She spent 90 days here.
It was a three, three monthinternship, not a day under 100
degrees.

C0227 Camera Interview (43:58):
here

Jonathan Warren (43:58):
was here for the the hottest part of the
year,

Joe P (44:01):
Yeah, But one of our highlights was going through
Thriller Villa with you.
That was a blast.
She was raised on piano, soyeah,

Jonathan Warren (44:09):
Yeah, that

Joe P (44:09):
she may have seen some of her music has Bizt's on it.
but doesn't know, she doesn'tknow Bizt music, but, and
Gershwin's piano, it's likeLiberace's collection, not a
collection of Liberace stuff.
yeah.

Jonathan Warren (44:24):
But the portrait, ah, the portrait, and
the,

Joe P (44:28):
the fireplace, a portrait

Jonathan Warren (44:30):
yeah.
maybe Liberace commissioned it.
It was commissioned by the JohnAscuaga Nugget in Reno, which
was

Joe P (44:36):
Okay, good.
I'm so glad.
I was worried about his ego.
It was that big.

C0227 Camera Interview (44:39):
ha! Yeah, in 1978 they

Joe P (44:41):
they had that done.
And

Jonathan Warren (44:42):
it hung there until they closed and I believe,
2007.
And Nugget Yeah.
and Yeah.

Joe P (44:48):
My wife worked there.
there

Jonathan Warren (44:49):
Yeah, yeah, that's the spot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So

Joe P (44:53):
that painting came from their lobby.
To the Liberace

Jonathan Warren (44:56):
So

Joe P (44:57):
So that's a great piece.
It's on the hearth in ThrillerVilla now.
Yeah.

Jonathan Warren (45:01):
Over the fireplace.
Yeah, yeah, WrestleMania one.
you know, He had a lot ofappearances in wrestling shows
over the years, beginningprobably around 1959, 1960.

Joe P (45:21):
And

Jonathan Warren (45:21):
He's in a lot of the ad wrestling wrestling
shows.
He would

Joe P (45:25):
be in, it.
he would interview

Jonathan Warren (45:26):
people.
He'd be a subject they'dinterview.
Yeah Just,

Joe P (45:30):
showman on site.
Yeah.

Jonathan Warren (45:31):
thing all

Joe P (45:33):
I was just telling a person today I'm going to go
record a podcast.
about Evel Knievel.
And he

Jonathan Warren (45:40):
he was too young to remember.
He

Joe P (45:42):
doesn't know.
And I said, he's Knievel.
And I said, he's a daredevil adaredevil, he jumps over stuff.

Video Sep 17 2024 (45:47):
stuff.

Joe P (45:47):
Oh, I remember.
Is it like wrestling?
said,

Video Sep 17 2024 (45:50):
does she

Joe P (45:51):
shares a fan base.
yes.
Yeah, it does share a fan base,yeah.
and The thing, that's the term,that people have forgotten is
daredevil.
I think that these guys,nowadays, when people have these
successes, they they create ashow or an attraction, that's,
that they calculate very well.

(46:13):
They know it's going to be ahit.
And they, there's no doubt aboutit and they know they're going
to pull it off because they doall this incredible calculations
ahead of time that they did nothave in that era.
and so, there wasn't, thereisn't a daredevil anymore.
There's performers now.
but in those days, he's hittingthe ramp doing, I don't know, 60

(46:34):
something miles an hour, I don'tknow how fast, but fast,
wondering if he's going to makethe other side and hit it's
just, all, it feels about right.
That's exactly right.
He did not have a speedometer,but he had an assistant goes,
stand there and go, looks

Jonathan Warren (46:49):
right, you're good to go.
There you go.
We'll just eyeball it.
It'll be fine.
the Caesars fountains.
It's as if there wasn't such athing as physics in 1960s.
It was there and available.
But there just wasn't anybodydoing this for this kind of
thing.
There was so much of that sortof thing in showmanship in
general where it was just like,let's swing at it and see if it
works.

(47:09):
And you have hits and misses.
But the daredevil concept justreally, I think personified that
yeah.
In that era, because daredevilswere they just drew all the
attention.
They'd take all the oxygen outof the room when the news was
on.
It just had to be, everybody was

Joe P (47:24):
gonna see if this actually happened.

C0227 Camera Interview (47:26):
The people, Now

Jonathan Warren (47:27):
no

C0227 Camera Interview (47:28):
what happened,

Jonathan Warren (47:29):
everybody was going to say, I always knew he'd
make it, or I always knew hewouldn't.

C0227 Camera Interview (47:33):
it.

Joe P (47:33):
No matter what.
That's true.
Yeah, They did.
They did.
They do that with all

Jonathan Warren (47:39):
stars too.
I always knew they'd make it, or

Joe P (47:41):
I always knew they wouldn't.
That was the nature of theproblem.
But there was no way some ofthose things you'd walk

Jonathan Warren (47:46):
from.
How do you drop a mile Yeah,exactly.
Or get up from those heinouswrecks

Joe P (47:55):
heinous wrecks.
and walk away.
Oh, you watch some of those inslow motion.
It's oh, no, I can't even watchthat.
No, I know every week I'mwatching the same

Jonathan Warren (48:06):
over and it's way old news now.
I've

Joe P (48:08):
Like I've been watching the video yeah.
for seven years and everySaturday I'm like, oh god, you
watch it.
I can't watch this anymore.

Jonathan Warren (48:16):
Yeah.

Joe P (48:17):
Ah, that was crazy.

Jonathan Warren (48:19):
collection that's

Joe P (48:20):
on display

Video Sep 17 2024 (48:21):
on

Joe P (48:21):
was

Video Sep 17 2024 (48:22):
kind of

Joe P (48:23):
by

Jonathan Warren (48:25):
at 50, 000 a week.
and now you don't have 50, 000.
Underwritten it more than that,actually.
By the time he opens his museum,he's making a lot more than
that.
I don't think people know buthis highest, his biggest paydays
were not even back then, even ininflation adjusted dollars.
By 1981, he's making tens ofmillions of dollars in a year

(48:46):
for less than half the year ofwork.
He's given everything away as heearns it.
And he spends, he loves tospend, but it's usually on the
show that he's investing in.
And yeah, so we don't have whathe left the museum was
relatively small because it heldits own.
It was able to sell tickets likemad and people wanted to come

(49:06):
and he kicked it off and showedup and people were there to see
him, too.
And of course it was a big hit.
It was always in the top 10attractions when it was open, it
went flying off a cliff in therecession of 2008.
So by 2013, it was totally outof money.
And it had closed and he's gonetoo.

Joe P (49:23):
There was this whole, point where it just about had
completely gone scattered.
to the wind.
And, uh,

Jonathan Warren (49:29):
managed to keep that from happening, but yeah,
with no endowment.
There's no endowment.
What are you going to do, right?
You got

Joe P (49:34):
You got

Jonathan Warren (49:34):
give me five on that because ours did scatter to
the winds, and we had to go getit.
Oh, man, that's difficult.
Yeah.

Joe P (49:42):
Is there anything missing?
Is there a holy grail out there?
Elvis took off his tiger belt,threw it out in the crowd.
Nobody knows where it is.
Wow.
See, that's something tocrowdsource.

Jonathan Warren (49:52):
because somebody's going to know.
Yeah, and then Evel's got onewhere's his Caesar's Palace
motorcycle?
Got the helmet, got the suit,but the motorcycle disappeared.
Good question.
yeah.
So, holy grail for us, notanything that we don't already
have.
We do have just about everyimportant artifact of Liberace.
There's some out there that arefantastic that we don't own.

(50:15):
but most of those I learnedabout because I met the
collectors.
And and I just went, wow, whatan incredible piece.
I'll give you an example.
There's a great piano ring.
that's silver and turquoise,owned by a collector here in las
vegas named John Altemus, who'sa good friend of ours.
And the piece is a silver,sterling silver ring.
And it's a piano ring, like hisother piano rings, but the piano

(50:35):
is sterling silver andturquoise, which is very Nevada.
So in Nevada, it's Navajo, so,he had this thing made at some
point or somebody gave it tohim.
I don't know.
a lot of these are gifts, so younever know.
And it was it belonged to Terryclarkson at one time, which was
one of the valets of Liberace OnStage.
And he gave it to John Ultimis.
and Ultimis has this piece andI'm like, that's just a
phenomenal piece.

(50:56):
It's such a Nevada, Las Vegas,Liberace piece.
It says it all in that onepiece.
So I told him, I want to showthat the next time we do the
jewels, and we will.
So, I wouldn't say it's a holygrail for us, because we,
Liberace We're fortunate that heput all of this together and
kept it together.
He sets it up as an institution,with the goal being to provide

(51:18):
support to the performing andcreative arts.
And that it would earn income todo that.
And it still does.
not, we're getting back there.
We're getting up there.
It'll take a while to get backto that.
But he did, it did for manyyears do that.
Because he kept it all togetherlike that, he put it all in an
institution, and then made sureit was professionally run as
much as he could.
It was never perfect.
It was always controversial.
It did go bankrupt at one point,but it's still together.

(51:41):
It's still together.
So that has allowed to maintainthese and major artifacts.
And hang on to them so thatwe're able to do that.
And so the major costumes, themajor jewels, the major cars are
all still in the collection.
That has to be a majorcommitment by you personally.
yeah, Yeah, it's definitelylabor love.
It's definitely of making surewe, we want to make sure that

(52:03):
this legacy lives on.
And also, that it can, webelieve it can recuperate to a
point where it's selfsustaining.
It's getting there.
And then to the point where it'sconstantly, on an ongoing basis
promoting, providing support tothe performing arts.
And it'll do that ultimately ina self sustaining way through
licensing primarily.
You guys have done well with

Joe P (52:24):
licensing.
very much.

C0227 Camera Interview (52:25):
can't

Jonathan Warren (52:25):
Knievel popping up in licensing

Joe P (52:28):
and I recognize it when I see it.
When I see the motorcycle toy,I'm like, that's brilliant.
Good.
And

Jonathan Warren (52:34):
Great

Joe P (52:34):
uses, great setup.
You had it, right?

C0227 Camera Interview (52:37):
yeah of course.

Jonathan Warren (52:38):
Are you kidding?
Do you I even had a red, white,and blue minibike.
Now that you mention it.
Three and a half horsepower.
Briggs and Stratton.

Joe P (52:47):
My parents are gone now, so I can say yes, I did

C0227 Camera Interview (52:50):
can't jump in.

Jonathan Warren (52:50):
No shocks on this thing.
Yeah.
oh man.
But that era was reallysomething else, yeah.
Where do you see your collectionin five I would say more
refinement of the same kind of ause.
Continuing to improve the spaceswe occupy and obtain more spaces

(53:13):
that are more conducive to thekinds of exhibits we'd really
like to put on.
It's hard to exhibit costumesand jewels, for example, because
of environmental concerns.
So we keep them at ThrillerVilla.
The reason Thriller Villa isgreat for the costumes is that
it is, of course, completely,the air conditioning is
critical.

(53:33):
But also, the way we have themthere, even the exhibited ones
are in a completely, almostcompletely dust free
environment.
It makes it so that the care ismuch easier.
These casinos, let me tell you,everybody says, oh, don't you
want these things in a casino?
These casinos look

Joe P (53:49):
immaculate.
Yeah.

Jonathan Warren (53:51):
And anything you got in there has a coat of
dust on it, an inch thick inthree days.
It's not nearly as clean as itlooks.

Joe P (53:59):
days.
I might be exaggeratingslightly, but only"It smells
like

C0227 Camera Interv (54:03):
cigarettes"

Jonathan Warren (54:04):
when they don't

Joe P (54:05):
it's,

Jonathan Warren (54:05):
the dust.
In the casinos, there's dustlike you wouldn't believe.
They're constantly dusting for agood reason.
That's an

Joe P (54:14):
hurt that it's an underground

Jonathan Warren (54:15):
yeah, exactly.
that bomb shelter People aregoing, what happens if they get
past the alarms and actuallymanage to get down here?
And I'm like, good luck findingyour way out, and and then not
getting shot when you do so.

Joe P (54:28):
Yeah, I don't have a lot of, I don't have a lot of
tolerance for thieves and peoplethat will wreck everything you
work years to create.
As a museum guy yourself and

Jonathan Warren (54:37):
a Las Vegas person, you've read the news,
probably since I've seen you,that the Neon Museum is moving
across the street from ourmuseum?
Yes, indeed, Yes.
How excited are you?
Oh, it's going to be phenomenal.
Honestly, I think the leadership

Joe P (54:53):
there knows what they're doing.
I think

Jonathan Warren (54:55):
the rendering that went out there is probably
less than accurate compared towhat they will end up doing.
I think they're really, theyreally know their market.

Joe P (55:04):
What do you, hang on, what do you mean, what do you
mean it's less than accurate?
Oh, I think that, that was acomputer generated, of course,
rendering of a building that'snot quite there yet.

Jonathan Warren (55:12):
And I think when they actually have
finalized it all, I think it'llbe even better.
Oh, even better.
Yeah.
it's not like the menu, whereyou're like, oh man,

Joe P (55:22):
the avocado burger looks great.
It looks so good in the picture.
Yeah.
What is this?
No.
I think that was

C0227 Camera Interview (55:27):
That was more of an idea piece

Joe P (55:30):
but

Jonathan Warren (55:30):
actual is even better, I believe.
and It's gonna be, Yeah, no,it's gonna be phenomenal.
Vegas signs lit up 10 stories inthe air.
You could put those whetherthey're inside, outside, up on
top, or down on the bottom,they're all phenomenal.

Joe P (55:47):
Yes.

Jonathan Warren (55:48):
But they're going to have enough room to
really, I think I would suspectthat they're going to have
enough room to really elaborateon each of those properties and
the stars that put them on themap.
and the whole genre

Joe P (56:04):
that goes with, for

C0227 Camera Interview (56:06):
Yes.

Jonathan Warren (56:07):
Rouge sign which was the first integrated
hotel casino in Las Vegas beforeit was legal to integrate.
So it was which is the realreason it shut down.
There's a whole lot of storiesabout the mob shutting it down.
None of that's true.
But the whole other story, I'lltell you another time.
But the Rouge was that first ofits kind.
And, It's a phenomenal story.

(56:28):
There's other properties too.
Every property is a story.
and they've got the signagethat's so iconic of those
properties

Joe P (56:34):
are no longer there.

Jonathan Warren (56:35):
So where better to tell a bit of that story.
And I think now they'll have thespace to do that.
I hope they do.
But whatever they do, I thinkit's going to be, I think it's
going to be amazing.
And I think that I'll tell youright now, if they want to put
any Liberace in there, we're allover it.
I'll be happy to.
We license them now, they've gotLiberace in the, first of all,
they got a Liberace sign, avintage Liberace sign that was
the first one they ever lit up.

(56:55):
It was donated by us, but it wasa wreck of a sign.
And they, that was from themuseum.
the original museum.
And they lit it up when they gota donor to do it.
And then there's another severalsigns that were part of the
Liberace Museum, the neon wasbroken on those signs.
And they have those in theirshow called Brilliant in the

(57:16):
North lot.
They have it set up where theylight up

Joe P (57:20):
all those really old signs using projection

Jonathan Warren (57:22):
Yeah.
and they do it to music.
And they light up our signs inthere.
And they play Liberace playingStrangers in the Night.
and they project him onto hispiano sign playing in the piano
sign.
So it's really good.
And so we licensed that foryears now.
with them anyway, and I wouldlove to do more with them.
So yeah, I hope they I hope theywant to do some Liberace.

(57:43):
We'd be happy to do it.
And again, I don't think thattakes away from our exhibits
that just makes people want moreof it.
I, my opinion is you know what,everywhere they go in Las Vegas,
they ought to see Liberace.
This guy is the reason it lookslike it does.
And

Joe P (57:56):
I don't think you can go wrong having some Evel Knievel

Jonathan Warren (57:58):
some major locations like that.
Give them a taste of this stuffand have them go, oh my god, and
this was

Joe P (58:04):
when?
19, what's, they'd be astounded.
I don't know.
I am.
People just don't know and that,and you combine that with

Jonathan Warren (58:12):
licensing you guys are doing with the toy and
everything like that.
it's just great stuff.

Joe P (58:15):
Yeah.
I'm in town for the

Jonathan Warren (58:17):
souvenir convention.
That's a good one.

Joe P (58:20):
So grateful for you for sharing

Jonathan Warren (58:22):
thanks for coming to liberace Garage.

Joe P (58:23):
it's been a real treat to to meet you and

Jonathan Warren (58:26):
it's going to it's be

Joe P (58:28):
fun when you got this museum

Jonathan Warren (58:29):
too.
We're going have a to good

Joe P (58:30):
Okay, Thank you.
Excellent.
And for my friend there, Happylandings.

Heather (58:38):
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe.
It's our mission to preserve andpresent the legacy of Evel
Knievel.
So, if you have an idea for anepisode or a guest, or have a
suggestion to improve our show,just drop us a line at
[e-mail].

Evel Knievel (58:59):
I just think the Evel Knievel way.

Heather (59:04):
We leave you with the encouraging words from the book
of Deuteronomy.
Be strong and courageous.
Do not be afraid.
For the Lord your God goes withyou.
He will never leave you orforsake you.
Until next time, happy landings.
You like to fly to the seat ofyour pants?

(59:33):
This is where you
belong.