August 26, 2025 • 29 mins
Ever wondered why it feels nearly impossible to land a literary agent these days?
In this episode, I had a chat with Vicky Weber, a literary agent, bestselling children's author, and marketing strategist, who pulls back the curtain on the harsh realities facing today's publishing industry.
Vicky reveals why the bar for getting agented has skyrocketed, how agents are making just $20 on some deals, and why editors no longer do the developmental work they used to.
But more importantly, she shares a few of the strategies that helped one of her books profit over $18,000 and explains exactly what agents are really looking for when they say a manuscript "isn't the right fit."
If you're serious about getting published, this conversation will fundamentally change how you approach querying, revisions, and building relationships in the industry.
What You'll Learn:
- Why developmental editing now falls on authors, not editors
- The marketing plan framework that can ensure your book doesn’t flop
- How to signal coachability and professionalism in queries
Click here to learn more about Vicky
Guest Bio: Vicky Weber is a literary agent, bestselling children’s book author, and publishing industry expert with years of experience helping authors navigate both traditional and self-publishing. As the founder of At Home Author, she has guided countless writers through the process of crafting, publishing, and marketing successful books. With a background in education, Vicky is passionate about breaking down complex industry concepts into actionable steps. Whether securing book deals for her clients or sharing insights on the ever-evolving publishing market, she is dedicated to helping authors turn their creative dreams into reality.
Episodes I think you'll love
Turn Your Manuscript into a Page-Turner Using The Central Question Framework with Julie Tyler Ruiz
Author Liz Alterman Reveals Her Weekly Writing Ritual That Transforms First Drafts Into Gold And How to Know When Your Story Idea Is Worth Writing
Literary Agent Jessica Berg Shares How to Catch an Agent's Eye
Get the list of 125+ Literary Agents who rep Thriller, Mystery, Suspense, and Crime Fiction
Study the Opening Paragraphs of the Top Authors Writing Thrillers Right Now
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David Gwyn (00:00):
Vicki thanks so much for being part of the Thriller 1
(00:02):
0 1 Podcast.
I have a, a hard question foryou first, which is, what's
harder at being a writer orbeing a literary agent?
Vicky Weber (00:08):
I think I would have to pick literary agent.
Only because they're both hard,but being a literary agent means
that I have to.
Potentially crush other people'sdreams.
Whereas when I'm writing anddoing my own projects, I can
(00:29):
kind of power through or ignoreor, you know, tamper put
boundaries on my own dreams.
It's different when your choicesaffect other people.
David Gwyn (00:38):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (00:39):
but also there's things about being a literary
agent that are kind of like amoving puzzle.
At all times.
One thing that a lot of authorsdon't realize is that when, when
an agent is sending outsubmissions it's not one
manuscript per author.
an editor, it's one per agent.
(00:59):
And
David Gwyn (01:00):
Hmm.
Vicky Weber (01:00):
because of that, that impacts our decisions and
who we take on when we take on.
And that's why when someone sayssomething's not a fit for the
list at this time, it quiteliterally means it doesn't fit,
the puzzle piece doesn't fitright now.
So that can be hard to, to tellpeople and to be so public.
(01:21):
And then also manage.
Open communication and thingslike that.
Being a writer and dealing withso many manuscripts across your
desk and making sure thateverything is transparent and
ethical it's a, it's a hard lineto walk, but I wouldn't trade it
for anything.
David Gwyn (01:36):
Yeah.
No, that makes a lot of sense.
And we're, and we're gonna talka little bit later here about
what's, what's changed in theindustry and, and how to, how
hard it is to get a literaryagent these days.
But before we do, I want you totalk a little bit about your
writing career because you havea nice career going on.
So tell us about it.
Vicky Weber (01:53):
Yeah, I started out on the author side, so I did not
start out as a literary agent.
I started out as a writer.
I was an elementary schoolteacher for about six years and
I did self-publishing ofchildren's books while I was
still teaching, and then COVIDhit.
I got pregnant with my firstbornand never returned back from my
(02:16):
maternity leave.
I just so much changed withschools and I knew I couldn't be
the parent I wanted to be if Istuck around, so I dove into
writing full-time.
And I believe last I counted, Ihave about 19 children's picture
books.
David Gwyn (02:31):
Wow.
Vicky Weber (02:32):
I've ghost written over 50.
And I've done a little bit ofwork for hire, things of that
nature.
I've also written middle gradeand Ya under a Pen name.
And then I also have severalworks in progress in a horror
thriller psychological thrillerand suspense.
So I am agented as a writer andI wear a lot of hats.
David Gwyn (02:58):
Yeah, that's, that's intense.
I mean, that's a wide range.
That's about as wide a ranges asyou can get.
So talk a little bit about your,your journey as a literary
agent.
I mean, how, how did, so Iimagine you, you know, you're
writing, you're in thisindustry, you see, you obviously
have an agent, you know, kind ofwhat that's like.
What made you wanna have thatcrossover to the kind of
business side of publishing?
Vicky Weber (03:19):
So when I started writing, I, my first three books
actually flopped.
David Gwyn (03:26):
Oh wow.
Vicky Weber (03:26):
And so am really, really stubborn.
I don't give up easily.
I am, I'm super persistentsometimes to a fault working on
that part, but, you know, so Istarted taking business classes
to try and figure out what I wasdoing wrong.
'cause again, I started inself-publishing.
David Gwyn (03:46):
Hmm.
Vicky Weber (03:47):
my fourth book, and remember this is a children's
picture book.
I.
Finally figured out how to havea really strong launch and
market well.
And so that book profited over$18,000 in the
David Gwyn (04:00):
Wow.
Wow.
Vicky Weber (04:02):
And so that launch strategy is something that I've
implemented with every singleone of my books since.
And I had so much success thatway that I had a lot of people
asking, how did you do that?
And how do I do that?
So then I started doing coachingand blog posts and YouTube
videos, things of that nature,because you could take the
(04:24):
teacher outta the classroom, butyou can't take the teacher outta
me and it can be hard andoverwhelming to learn all of
those, those things.
So I started doing that and whatI realized very quickly is
marketing is something thatcomes very naturally to me.
It's something I'm good at.
It's something I enjoy.
And I also realized that thereare a lot of stories out there
(04:48):
that are incredible, but I amnot the right person to Penn.
David Gwyn (04:52):
Mm.
Vicky Weber (04:53):
And so when I met the owner of a small boutique
agency, she happened to live inmy town.
David Gwyn (04:59):
Oh wow.
Vicky Weber (05:00):
looking to grow the agency ended up interviewing.
So it was a little bit offalling into it by, by
happenstance, but it worked outreally well because that's
exactly what it allows me to do.
It allows me to pitch and be apart of bringing other people's
stories to write that I am notthe right person to, to, you
(05:23):
know, literally write.
So.
That's probably the most funpart.
But yeah, I didn't go into itwanting to be an agent or always
dreaming of being an agent.
But now everything blendstogether so nicely and supports
the other.
And I still do all of thosecoaching things, blog posts,
YouTube videos, podcasts
David Gwyn (05:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's very cool.
I, I, I feel like I always tryto listen in on these
conversations as a writer, youknow, who's sitting here,
listening to us, driving towork, taking a walk, cleaning,
doing the dishes, whatever,whatever, wherever we've caught
somebody's attention here.
And they're listening.
And I think whenever I'm talkingto agents, I'm always like, what
is the, what is the like thingthat makes this agent stand out?
(06:05):
And, and it sounds like to me,like the knowledge of the
industry and specifically aroundgetting your book in the, into
the right hands, which I thinkis something that's often
overlooked.
And I'm sure you, you felt thisway and it probably, it's, you
know, it's what happened to yourfirst couple of books and you
thought like, wait, this is anindustry that hasn't quite
caught up yet to the marketingpart of it.
Writers still think that theywrite books and hand'em over to
(06:26):
agents.
And then they go write their ownbook.
And like, that's just not thereality anymore.
You know, it used to be likethat, whatever, 50, 60 years
ago, and it's just not thatanymore.
And I think your persistenceand, and your kind of ability
to, to understand, but also likewillingness to learn that realm
is really valuable for a writerwho's sitting here thinking
about, oh, you know, should Ipitch Vicky or not?
Like, like, this is valuableinformation that you have.
(06:50):
That's really cool.
I mean, I imagine it was like,was it a lot of trial and error
to kind of get to where you wereor was it more like you learned
the steps and then were able toimplement them right away?
Vicky Weber (06:59):
Both well, the first three was absolutely trial
and error.
I like, I, I released the firstbook and was like, okay, okay,
okay.
The second one's gonna be betterthough, because now I've done it
and now I know what I'm doing.
so I did it and the second book,and that was still a flop.
And I'm like, oh, okay, okay.
But, but let me try this stuffover here.
(07:21):
And it was still, it is stillwas, was not good.
And so I was like, all right, Ineed to actually sit down and
figure out what's happening.
I took some like businessclasses online and at my local
community college, to try andfigure out how do I get all of
this to fit in together?
And what I found at the time,all of the information on
(07:42):
children's literature out therewas focused on craft.
So I
David Gwyn (07:47):
Okay.
Vicky Weber (07:47):
strong about the craft piece,
David Gwyn (07:50):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (07:50):
but all of the marketing things were.
Strictly targeted at novelistsbut usually those very
traditional storylines andgenres.
David Gwyn (08:03):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (08:03):
And so much of what I was seeing was people
experimenting with genres or,you know, getting weirder
quirkier storylines.
Things that were called nichefor a while that are not called
that anymore.
And so those subsets didn'treally have a lot of information
on how do you get those thingsout there?
And I'll, I'll give you mylittle crash course because this
does apply to both self andtraditional publishing.
David Gwyn (08:26):
Yeah, please.
Vicky Weber (08:27):
You need a marketing plan,
David Gwyn (08:29):
Hmm.
Vicky Weber (08:29):
and a marketing plan look a lot of different
ways.
Some of my students have quiteliterally made a wall of sticky
notes.
That is their marketing plan.
And as they complete a task,they pull a sticky note off.
Some people create an Excelspreadsheet.
Some people hand write somethingor draw something or get one of
those old fashioned tri-foldprojects for school and doodle
(08:53):
that up.
A marketing plan just needs tobe marketing strategies you're
going to do when you're going todo them, the frequency and how.
That's the piece that mostpeople forget is it's not just
about doing a strategy, it'salso about consistency with said
(09:13):
strategy and you're actuallyreaching those individuals.
Because if I were to walkoutside right now you know, wave
my book around, what are theodds that somebody who passes by
is gonna be my, my targetaudience?
Pretty slim to none.
David Gwyn (09:29):
Yep.
Vicky Weber (09:29):
So.
You know, having your bookavailable in a bookstore or on
Amazon, it's just a digitalbookshelf.
David Gwyn (09:36):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (09:36):
don't know it's there, then they can't buy it,
David Gwyn (09:40):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (09:40):
not buying it, they're not reading it.
So you have to be the personthat says, okay, who are my
readers?
Where do they hang out?
David Gwyn (09:48):
Mm-hmm.
Vicky Weber (09:48):
find them?
How do I reach them?
How do I get them to care?
David Gwyn (09:52):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (09:53):
know about you, but somebody waving a book in front
of my face and saying by my bookhas never worked.
David Gwyn (09:59):
No, and I see that in social media a lot.
I, I feel like in the, the daysof Twitter, I'm not, I'm not
really on anymore.
But I used to see that all thetime and I, I forget who it was.
I was listening to a podcast, Ithink about writing, and someone
said it so clearly, they werelike, the, the barrier for
someone buying your book is notthe price, right?
Like dropping a price orconvincing, oh, it's 50% off, or
the book's 99 cents, likethat's.
(10:21):
Not going.
It's, it's the time.
It's the, they're gonna spendeight hours with your book.
They need to know it's worth itfor them.
And that's the thing that youhave to convince them of.
You're not selling a productthat's price based.
You're, you're selling it likeentertainment based.
And I thought that was reallyinteresting.
It kind of goes to your point oflike, you have to find the
people who wanna read your book,not the people who have.
(10:42):
$15 in their pocket, if that'snot something that they're gonna
enjoy, they're never gonna buyit.
It doesn't matter.
You know, you have to know whoyou're, you're going towards.
I think that's really smart.
We're gonna have to have youback to talk about marketing,
because this is reallyinteresting.
But we do have something I, I dowanna talk about.
'cause I, I read this articlethat you wrote is a, I guess
maybe a month, month or so agonow, maybe two months about why
it's so hard to get a literaryagent right now and what's
(11:03):
changed.
And I thought it was so wellorganized and like really
succinct and to the point.
I think sometimes people try tolike, make it more than it is,
and I thought that this wasreally well organized.
So if you're listening to this,I will link it down below.
But I wanna just hit a fewpoints of this and kind of get
your take on this.
One is that there's, there'sfewer agents and, and fewer
editors, kind of like these twothings are happening at once.
(11:26):
Can you talk a little bit abouthow, with those two things going
hand in hand, what that meansfor, for writers?
Vicky Weber (11:32):
Yeah, so agents are always coming and going.
That's always been the case, buttraditionally, used to happen
with agents and the reason whythere was always such a,
majority of, of a certain typeof, of writer was because being
an agent still is commissiononly, with very few exceptions.
(11:56):
There are some bigger agenciesthat are salary based but a lot
of times they'll have quotasthat you need to meet and, and
some other things there.
But most agencies arecommissioned based only.
And so because of that.
If I sell a book today andthere's no advance, I won't see
any money on it for two, threeyears.
David Gwyn (12:15):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (12:16):
And if there is an in advance, that money, it
doesn't always come in advance.
Sometimes it's half on signingand half on publication or
something like that.
There are exceptions to everyrule, but it means that the
money coming in is verysporadic.
And also a lot of people assume,at least I did.
(12:36):
that, that 15% that the agencyretains from a deal that it all
goes to the agent, but itdoesn't
David Gwyn (12:44):
Mm.
Vicky Weber (12:45):
agency has operation costs as well.
Emails, you know, subscriptionsgotta send out tax forms.
All of those fund things, which
David Gwyn (12:53):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (12:55):
your, the agent is only getting a portion of that
15%, which means that.
some of these deals that theycould be doing, they could be
making 20 bucks on.
I, I just did a deal the otherday that I made$20.
So because of that and becauseof just the general economy and
(13:15):
also volume, there are fewerpeople that are able to sustain.
David Gwyn (13:22):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (13:24):
Do, you know, to, to support their families in
that regard.
And so what used to happen is,is most agents were people who
were, you know, trust fundbabies or had a spouse with a
really good job, or maybe theirhouse was already paid off or
something like that.
David Gwyn (13:42):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (13:42):
Then we had a window where there was more
opportunity because of all ofthe remote possibilities.
David Gwyn (13:48):
Yep.
Vicky Weber (13:49):
you know, not needing to be in person or live
in New York was a very big deal,with so many people struggling
financially.
There are just only so manyhours in the day.
So more agents than ever beforeare leaving for personal
reasons, for financial reasonsfor all of those things.
(14:09):
And there are editors also,their positions are being cut at
publishers purely for financialreasons and as well, which means
editor lists are smaller.
Which then means agent lists aresmaller and because of all of
the information out there now onhow to write a book, how to get
(14:29):
agented, how to do all of thosethings, have more queries and
more people writing than everbefore.
So the statistics andpercentages are way, way
different than even five, 10years ago.
David Gwyn (14:45):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (14:45):
so all of that makes a huge difference and
it's.
Much more competitive overall.
David Gwyn (14:51):
no, that makes a lot of sense.
And it is this trend that Ithink I keep hearing from agents
and, and writers as well, youknow?
It, it almost feels like I don'twanna say random because I think
that there are some benchmarksyou have to hit, which we're
gonna talk about in, in a fewseconds.
Like to be considered that levelthat is able to be agented
because I think that there is a,a certain bar you have to hit of
(15:12):
like craft and structure, andyou have to know a certain
amount of things when it comesto writing.
To kind of be there.
But once you're there, it doesfeel kind of random as like
where you end up with like whatagent or what publisher.
It does, it does feel like ithas a lot to do with just the
kind of the, the taste of, ofthe editor at the time.
And and the other thing that,that kind of goes to this point,
(15:32):
which is you mentioned in thisarticle that the bar for what it
means to be ready to sign withan agent is a lot higher than it
used to be.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat as well?
Vicky Weber (15:43):
Yeah, well, what used to happen is a manuscript
would come in and an agent wouldbe able to look at it and say, I
know who would love thisconcept.
I can, I have a vision for howthis would work editorially.
They'd jump on a call, talk tothe author, make sure they're on
(16:04):
the same page, and then offer,and then they would dig in and
they would do the editorialwork, or agents would send it
out as is
David Gwyn (16:12):
Mm-hmm.
Vicky Weber (16:13):
editors used to do a lot more developmental work
than they're willing to do now.
David Gwyn (16:17):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (16:18):
most editors that I know at publishing houses either
do very little developmentalediting or none at
David Gwyn (16:26):
Mm-hmm.
Vicky Weber (16:27):
It's more copy editing and fine tuning and
tweaking,
David Gwyn (16:31):
Hmm.
Vicky Weber (16:31):
that the developmental side now falls on.
or if you're not an editorialagent, it falls on the author
prior to being signed.
David Gwyn (16:41):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (16:41):
And that is not how the balance used to be.
But the, the reason thathappened is because the volume
is so high.
If you
David Gwyn (16:50):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (16:51):
you know, so many manuscripts to choose from,
you're going to PI pick the, thebest one from the batch rather
than the one that needs the mostwork.
David Gwyn (16:59):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (16:59):
when you're drowning in emails and.
You know,
David Gwyn (17:04):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (17:04):
hours in the day.
David Gwyn (17:05):
then you're doing deals for$20 and you're like,
what?
Like, like, how am I, how can I,you know, in increase my volume?
You know, I think is is part ofwhat it is.
Being an agent, having talked toa bunch of agents is.
How do I sign more writers?
Sure.
But not just sign writers.
Sign writers who are then goingto get publishing deals.
Vicky Weber (17:23):
Exactly.
Well, and writers who going toput the work in because there
are some writers who are notopen to editorial
David Gwyn (17:31):
Mm-hmm.
Vicky Weber (17:31):
And so then those conversations take a very
different turn.
Or there are some authors whothink that their agent.
Should or could or will act morelike a developmental editor
David Gwyn (17:44):
Hmm.
Vicky Weber (17:45):
they'll send their manuscript to their agent 6, 7,
8 times before going onsubmission.
Well, if each read through of anovel is 5, 6, 7, 8 hours.
Much more.
If it's fantasy,
David Gwyn (17:59):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (18:00):
a lot of time investment for potentially$20
David Gwyn (18:03):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (18:04):
potentially$0.
David Gwyn (18:05):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (18:06):
so it, it can be worth it.
But for me as an agent, what'sreally important, because the
thing I cannot teach is at thewant to be good at the craft.
David Gwyn (18:19):
Hmm.
Vicky Weber (18:19):
I can give a lot of tools.
I can teach skills, I canbrainstorm and help an author
become better.
But not if they don't wanna bebetter and they don't wanna put
that effort in.
David Gwyn (18:32):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (18:32):
that's something that I look for beyond genre and
beyond where the manuscript isright now.
I also wanna make sure, can Iwork with this person long term?
David Gwyn (18:41):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (18:41):
would an editor want to work with this person
long term?
David Gwyn (18:44):
Yeah.
And I, I think that's reallyinteresting.
And, and, and you've, you'veoutlined in the article some
important information about howto make your book ready.
So, like I said, for people whoare listening, definitely go
read it.
I'll link it below.
And, and, and I wanna dig in alittle bit on this I idea of
what you're looking for in, infirst pages.
And really just, I'm reallyinterested in kind of how you,
or if you try to assesssomeone's investment in their
(19:08):
writing.
Are you able to do that from aquery and line level basis, or
is that, does that happen morewhen you're on the phone with
them?
If you're thinking aboutoffering representation?
Vicky Weber (20:06):
Usually the piece about what it would be like to
work with an author
David Gwyn (20:10):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (20:11):
not apparent from the writing itself.
David Gwyn (20:14):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Vicky Weber (20:15):
the writing, you know, if it's, if it's already
strong, it could support piecesomewhere else, but usually my
first introduction to that isthe query letter.
David Gwyn (20:26):
Yeah,
Vicky Weber (20:27):
Even little things like I am a member of insert
organization here, or I havecritique partners.
That in itself tells me, Hmm,this person is used to to
hearing feedback.
David Gwyn (20:40):
yeah,
Vicky Weber (20:41):
You would not believe how many authors don't
even have that
David Gwyn (20:45):
yeah.
Vicky Weber (20:45):
piece or
David Gwyn (20:46):
it.
Vicky Weber (20:46):
want
David Gwyn (20:47):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (20:48):
So there are things that you can say that about your
hobbies, your life, your homelife, your personality, things
like that, that help me readbetween the lines on what it
might be like to work with you.
David Gwyn (21:02):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (21:02):
Beyond that, sometimes I'll get people via
referrals.
referrals from authors I alreadyrepresent, or here's the reason
why I think it's so important topersisting.
Keep putting yourself out thereand really highlight what it
would be like to work with you,because if I get something in my
(21:23):
inbox and I can tell it's good,but it's not a fit for me, I'm
not the right salesperson.
will always, always try to referthem to somebody if it's within
my power.
If there's somebody I can thinkof
David Gwyn (21:37):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (21:39):
you, just because it's not a fit for me, doesn't
mean it shouldn't be publishedor it shouldn't be out there.
And there's a lot of agents whohave that mentality as well.
David Gwyn (21:49):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (21:51):
Yeah, I guess that's.
what I would, what I would do isfocus on that query letter and
then also don't be afraid totake advantage of other
opportunities.
Sometimes I meet people atconferences, or sometimes I'll
have someone, I actually reallylove this.
will have passed on theirmanuscript like a year prior,
(22:12):
they will re-query me andthey'll say first thing in the
query letter, Hey Vicki, I sentthis to you last year and you
passed because blah, blah, blah.
But I've gone back to it.
It's gone through extensiverevisions and here's why I still
think it would be a good fit.
I hope you don't mind taking asecond look.
(22:33):
That to me says this person iswilling to put in the work for
sure, but they're also willingto fight for their vision.
David Gwyn (22:42):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (22:44):
and they're, they're taking that extra next
step of.
Hey, you sent, I sent this toyou already, but hoping that
you'll take a second look and,and I think a good handful of
clients that I've signed havebeen ones who have done exactly
that because
David Gwyn (23:02):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (23:02):
can see their old query and see how much they
improved.
David Gwyn (23:06):
Yeah, it's so funny.
I, I run a writing community ofwhich you, you, you know, this,
you, you were part of one of ourpitch sessions and I, so I get
con, I get, we haveconversations like this all the
time.
I get questions like this allthe time.
Like, Hey, I queried this agent.
Should I follow up?
Should I, you know, these arethings that are happening in
conversation all the time andthis in this group.
And I always remind them, hahaving had had the, the
(23:27):
privilege and, and opportunityto talk to a variety of agents.
I'm always like, yes, there arerules or guidelines, but they're
wider than you think they are.
Like every, I think every writeris afraid of stepping outta the
guidelines.
Like, oh, I already queriedVicki, and you know, she said I
should fix this, and now I'vedone that and like, should I,
and I'm, I'm always like, yes.
(23:48):
Because at the end of the day,agents are people who really
want to represent great books.
If you think your book is agreat fit for them.
Then, no, you shouldn't querythem five days after and say
like, yeah, I fixed it.
Like if you've, if you've donethe work, like you're mentioning
agents want to represent greatbooks, like that's why you're in
this industry.
Like you're not in this industryto say no to people.
(24:10):
You're in this industry to sayyes to people.
And I think to to your point,like there are guidelines, there
are guide rails that are up, butlike they're wider than, than a
lot of writers are led tobelieve.
And I think that that's part ofit is like.
If there's a good faith reasonfor you to re-query or reach out
again, no agent's gonna likeblacklist you because of that.
(24:33):
Like, and I'd be like, no,you'll never have an agent now
because you, you know, didextensive work on something that
I suggested you work on and, andasked, had the audacity to ask
me.
Like, it's, it's not like that.
And you know, I.
Vicky Weber (24:44):
how you phrase that though, like a good faith
reason.
Is, is just a great way to putthat because I have had some
people who I say, you know, Hey,this is a past because the, I
don't know what to do with thisconcept.
I'm just not the right fit.
And then they'll turn around andresend it to me a couple days
later and I'll be like.
(25:04):
I
David Gwyn (25:05):
Still not.
Vicky Weber (25:05):
not the right fit for X, Y, Z reason.
I did have somebody do that tome eight times,
David Gwyn (25:11):
Wow.
Vicky Weber (25:12):
once.
And so that person was, was the,the talk of some agent groups
because I was like,
David Gwyn (25:19):
That makes sense.
Vicky Weber (25:19):
to understand?
Am I not saying the right thing?
David Gwyn (25:22):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (25:23):
But it
David Gwyn (25:23):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (25:24):
positivity too.
There's an author, actuallythere's several authors who.
I do not represent, but I've hadinteractions with, and I've seen
their stories and I have workedwith them in a weird adjacent
capacity or met them at aconference or something, and I
rave about them to agent friendsand some of them have gotten
signed that way because, youknow, they, because I won't stop
(25:49):
talking about them.
David Gwyn (25:50):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (25:51):
And that's
David Gwyn (25:52):
That's awesome.
Vicky Weber (25:52):
problem to have.
And so I do wish more authorswould.
their query letters, in theirwriting in their interactions
with agents to let theirpersonality
David Gwyn (26:03):
Mm.
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (26:05):
because I do think that more often than not, people
think that they need to beoverly formal or overly
professional.
You can be professional andstill be you.
David Gwyn (26:15):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (26:15):
can do all of those things and you can be, you know,
kind and firm.
All of those things that youshould be, but still.
Be you.
David Gwyn (26:25):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (26:26):
and that's what really stands out a lot of the
time is a, is a personality.
And there's all kinds of those.
David Gwyn (26:33):
Definitely in the writing industry too, that's for
sure.
So Vicki, I, I could, I couldtalk to you all night.
This is so much fun and we'regonna have to get something else
on the books, but I, I just havetwo more questions for you.
One what genres are you lookingfor right now?
And then I'll ask my second oneafter.
After I.
Vicky Weber (26:45):
So right now I'm really looking to grow my adult
list a little bit more.
I like to say that my taste isintensity based.
So it, you know, when it comesto horror, I want like, all the
eerie, creepy, spooky.
I am not afraid of a good genreblend, so, you know, I love when
thriller and horror fusedtogether.
I love suspense.
(27:06):
I really like anything.
that realm, speculative, magicalrealism is plot driven, but with
very strong characters who aremessy.
I see a lot of characters thatare just too perfect and I'm
like, no, no, no.
You don't understand.
I'm reading to feel better aboutmy own life and.
(27:29):
And so I feel like, well, atleast I don't have that problem.
I don't wanna read about perfectpeople because then, then I'm
the problem child.
Like, no thank you.
David Gwyn (27:40):
Love that.
Vicky Weber (27:41):
so I really want that mess, but really across,
across adult fiction, I wantmore.
Weird things.
The things where you can justsay, oh yeah, it's this meets
that, or it's this weird hook.
and everybody goes, oh, wellwhat does that mean?
Now I wanna find out.
(28:01):
I'm not afraid of those.
In fact, I, I really like it.
So the
David Gwyn (28:05):
Very cool.
No, that's great.
And my last question for you isjust where can people find you?
Where can people look you up?
Vicky Weber (28:10):
Sure.
Pretty much everywhere.
Google is your friend?
David Gwyn (28:13):
Yep.
Vicky Weber (28:13):
no, I'm on Twitter, X, whatever the heck it's
called.
I'm on blue sky.
I run a blog called At HomeAuthor with lots of writing
tips.
That's where you'll find theblog post that, that you
mentioned on the CMA website.
And yeah, really I'm, I'm alittle bit of everywhere.
I'm pretty easy to track down ifyou just punch my name in
David Gwyn (28:35):
Nice.
That's awesome.
So Vicki, thank you so much fortaking the time to chat.
I will link to all that stuffdown in the description, so if
you want quick access to Vickiyou can go down there and check
it out.
This has been really fun.
Like I said, I, I could talk toyou all night, so this was
great.
Vicky Weber (28:48):
Well, thank you for having me.
Vicki thanks so much for being part of the Thriller 1
(00:02):
0 1 Podcast.
I have a, a hard question foryou first, which is, what's
harder at being a writer orbeing a literary agent?
Vicky Weber (00:08):
I think I would have to pick literary agent.
Only because they're both hard,but being a literary agent means
that I have to.
Potentially crush other people'sdreams.
Whereas when I'm writing anddoing my own projects, I can
(00:29):
kind of power through or ignoreor, you know, tamper put
boundaries on my own dreams.
It's different when your choicesaffect other people.
David Gwyn (00:38):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (00:39):
but also there's things about being a literary
agent that are kind of like amoving puzzle.
At all times.
One thing that a lot of authorsdon't realize is that when, when
an agent is sending outsubmissions it's not one
manuscript per author.
an editor, it's one per agent.
(00:59):
And
David Gwyn (01:00):
Hmm.
Vicky Weber (01:00):
because of that, that impacts our decisions and
who we take on when we take on.
And that's why when someone sayssomething's not a fit for the
list at this time, it quiteliterally means it doesn't fit,
the puzzle piece doesn't fitright now.
So that can be hard to, to tellpeople and to be so public.
(01:21):
And then also manage.
Open communication and thingslike that.
Being a writer and dealing withso many manuscripts across your
desk and making sure thateverything is transparent and
ethical it's a, it's a hard lineto walk, but I wouldn't trade it
for anything.
David Gwyn (01:36):
Yeah.
No, that makes a lot of sense.
And we're, and we're gonna talka little bit later here about
what's, what's changed in theindustry and, and how to, how
hard it is to get a literaryagent these days.
But before we do, I want you totalk a little bit about your
writing career because you havea nice career going on.
So tell us about it.
Vicky Weber (01:53):
Yeah, I started out on the author side, so I did not
start out as a literary agent.
I started out as a writer.
I was an elementary schoolteacher for about six years and
I did self-publishing ofchildren's books while I was
still teaching, and then COVIDhit.
I got pregnant with my firstbornand never returned back from my
(02:16):
maternity leave.
I just so much changed withschools and I knew I couldn't be
the parent I wanted to be if Istuck around, so I dove into
writing full-time.
And I believe last I counted, Ihave about 19 children's picture
books.
David Gwyn (02:31):
Wow.
Vicky Weber (02:32):
I've ghost written over 50.
And I've done a little bit ofwork for hire, things of that
nature.
I've also written middle gradeand Ya under a Pen name.
And then I also have severalworks in progress in a horror
thriller psychological thrillerand suspense.
So I am agented as a writer andI wear a lot of hats.
David Gwyn (02:58):
Yeah, that's, that's intense.
I mean, that's a wide range.
That's about as wide a ranges asyou can get.
So talk a little bit about your,your journey as a literary
agent.
I mean, how, how did, so Iimagine you, you know, you're
writing, you're in thisindustry, you see, you obviously
have an agent, you know, kind ofwhat that's like.
What made you wanna have thatcrossover to the kind of
business side of publishing?
Vicky Weber (03:19):
So when I started writing, I, my first three books
actually flopped.
David Gwyn (03:26):
Oh wow.
Vicky Weber (03:26):
And so am really, really stubborn.
I don't give up easily.
I am, I'm super persistentsometimes to a fault working on
that part, but, you know, so Istarted taking business classes
to try and figure out what I wasdoing wrong.
'cause again, I started inself-publishing.
David Gwyn (03:46):
Hmm.
Vicky Weber (03:47):
my fourth book, and remember this is a children's
picture book.
I.
Finally figured out how to havea really strong launch and
market well.
And so that book profited over$18,000 in the
David Gwyn (04:00):
Wow.
Wow.
Vicky Weber (04:02):
And so that launch strategy is something that I've
implemented with every singleone of my books since.
And I had so much success thatway that I had a lot of people
asking, how did you do that?
And how do I do that?
So then I started doing coachingand blog posts and YouTube
videos, things of that nature,because you could take the
(04:24):
teacher outta the classroom, butyou can't take the teacher outta
me and it can be hard andoverwhelming to learn all of
those, those things.
So I started doing that and whatI realized very quickly is
marketing is something thatcomes very naturally to me.
It's something I'm good at.
It's something I enjoy.
And I also realized that thereare a lot of stories out there
(04:48):
that are incredible, but I amnot the right person to Penn.
David Gwyn (04:52):
Mm.
Vicky Weber (04:53):
And so when I met the owner of a small boutique
agency, she happened to live inmy town.
David Gwyn (04:59):
Oh wow.
Vicky Weber (05:00):
looking to grow the agency ended up interviewing.
So it was a little bit offalling into it by, by
happenstance, but it worked outreally well because that's
exactly what it allows me to do.
It allows me to pitch and be apart of bringing other people's
stories to write that I am notthe right person to, to, you
(05:23):
know, literally write.
So.
That's probably the most funpart.
But yeah, I didn't go into itwanting to be an agent or always
dreaming of being an agent.
But now everything blendstogether so nicely and supports
the other.
And I still do all of thosecoaching things, blog posts,
YouTube videos, podcasts
David Gwyn (05:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's very cool.
I, I, I feel like I always tryto listen in on these
conversations as a writer, youknow, who's sitting here,
listening to us, driving towork, taking a walk, cleaning,
doing the dishes, whatever,whatever, wherever we've caught
somebody's attention here.
And they're listening.
And I think whenever I'm talkingto agents, I'm always like, what
is the, what is the like thingthat makes this agent stand out?
(06:05):
And, and it sounds like to me,like the knowledge of the
industry and specifically aroundgetting your book in the, into
the right hands, which I thinkis something that's often
overlooked.
And I'm sure you, you felt thisway and it probably, it's, you
know, it's what happened to yourfirst couple of books and you
thought like, wait, this is anindustry that hasn't quite
caught up yet to the marketingpart of it.
Writers still think that theywrite books and hand'em over to
(06:26):
agents.
And then they go write their ownbook.
And like, that's just not thereality anymore.
You know, it used to be likethat, whatever, 50, 60 years
ago, and it's just not thatanymore.
And I think your persistenceand, and your kind of ability
to, to understand, but also likewillingness to learn that realm
is really valuable for a writerwho's sitting here thinking
about, oh, you know, should Ipitch Vicky or not?
Like, like, this is valuableinformation that you have.
(06:50):
That's really cool.
I mean, I imagine it was like,was it a lot of trial and error
to kind of get to where you wereor was it more like you learned
the steps and then were able toimplement them right away?
Vicky Weber (06:59):
Both well, the first three was absolutely trial
and error.
I like, I, I released the firstbook and was like, okay, okay,
okay.
The second one's gonna be betterthough, because now I've done it
and now I know what I'm doing.
so I did it and the second book,and that was still a flop.
And I'm like, oh, okay, okay.
But, but let me try this stuffover here.
(07:21):
And it was still, it is stillwas, was not good.
And so I was like, all right, Ineed to actually sit down and
figure out what's happening.
I took some like businessclasses online and at my local
community college, to try andfigure out how do I get all of
this to fit in together?
And what I found at the time,all of the information on
(07:42):
children's literature out therewas focused on craft.
So I
David Gwyn (07:47):
Okay.
Vicky Weber (07:47):
strong about the craft piece,
David Gwyn (07:50):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (07:50):
but all of the marketing things were.
Strictly targeted at novelistsbut usually those very
traditional storylines andgenres.
David Gwyn (08:03):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (08:03):
And so much of what I was seeing was people
experimenting with genres or,you know, getting weirder
quirkier storylines.
Things that were called nichefor a while that are not called
that anymore.
And so those subsets didn'treally have a lot of information
on how do you get those thingsout there?
And I'll, I'll give you mylittle crash course because this
does apply to both self andtraditional publishing.
David Gwyn (08:26):
Yeah, please.
Vicky Weber (08:27):
You need a marketing plan,
David Gwyn (08:29):
Hmm.
Vicky Weber (08:29):
and a marketing plan look a lot of different
ways.
Some of my students have quiteliterally made a wall of sticky
notes.
That is their marketing plan.
And as they complete a task,they pull a sticky note off.
Some people create an Excelspreadsheet.
Some people hand write somethingor draw something or get one of
those old fashioned tri-foldprojects for school and doodle
(08:53):
that up.
A marketing plan just needs tobe marketing strategies you're
going to do when you're going todo them, the frequency and how.
That's the piece that mostpeople forget is it's not just
about doing a strategy, it'salso about consistency with said
(09:13):
strategy and you're actuallyreaching those individuals.
Because if I were to walkoutside right now you know, wave
my book around, what are theodds that somebody who passes by
is gonna be my, my targetaudience?
Pretty slim to none.
David Gwyn (09:29):
Yep.
Vicky Weber (09:29):
So.
You know, having your bookavailable in a bookstore or on
Amazon, it's just a digitalbookshelf.
David Gwyn (09:36):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (09:36):
don't know it's there, then they can't buy it,
David Gwyn (09:40):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (09:40):
not buying it, they're not reading it.
So you have to be the personthat says, okay, who are my
readers?
Where do they hang out?
David Gwyn (09:48):
Mm-hmm.
Vicky Weber (09:48):
find them?
How do I reach them?
How do I get them to care?
David Gwyn (09:52):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (09:53):
know about you, but somebody waving a book in front
of my face and saying by my bookhas never worked.
David Gwyn (09:59):
No, and I see that in social media a lot.
I, I feel like in the, the daysof Twitter, I'm not, I'm not
really on anymore.
But I used to see that all thetime and I, I forget who it was.
I was listening to a podcast, Ithink about writing, and someone
said it so clearly, they werelike, the, the barrier for
someone buying your book is notthe price, right?
Like dropping a price orconvincing, oh, it's 50% off, or
the book's 99 cents, likethat's.
(10:21):
Not going.
It's, it's the time.
It's the, they're gonna spendeight hours with your book.
They need to know it's worth itfor them.
And that's the thing that youhave to convince them of.
You're not selling a productthat's price based.
You're, you're selling it likeentertainment based.
And I thought that was reallyinteresting.
It kind of goes to your point oflike, you have to find the
people who wanna read your book,not the people who have.
(10:42):
$15 in their pocket, if that'snot something that they're gonna
enjoy, they're never gonna buyit.
It doesn't matter.
You know, you have to know whoyou're, you're going towards.
I think that's really smart.
We're gonna have to have youback to talk about marketing,
because this is reallyinteresting.
But we do have something I, I dowanna talk about.
'cause I, I read this articlethat you wrote is a, I guess
maybe a month, month or so agonow, maybe two months about why
it's so hard to get a literaryagent right now and what's
(11:03):
changed.
And I thought it was so wellorganized and like really
succinct and to the point.
I think sometimes people try tolike, make it more than it is,
and I thought that this wasreally well organized.
So if you're listening to this,I will link it down below.
But I wanna just hit a fewpoints of this and kind of get
your take on this.
One is that there's, there'sfewer agents and, and fewer
editors, kind of like these twothings are happening at once.
(11:26):
Can you talk a little bit abouthow, with those two things going
hand in hand, what that meansfor, for writers?
Vicky Weber (11:32):
Yeah, so agents are always coming and going.
That's always been the case, buttraditionally, used to happen
with agents and the reason whythere was always such a,
majority of, of a certain typeof, of writer was because being
an agent still is commissiononly, with very few exceptions.
(11:56):
There are some bigger agenciesthat are salary based but a lot
of times they'll have quotasthat you need to meet and, and
some other things there.
But most agencies arecommissioned based only.
And so because of that.
If I sell a book today andthere's no advance, I won't see
any money on it for two, threeyears.
David Gwyn (12:15):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (12:16):
And if there is an in advance, that money, it
doesn't always come in advance.
Sometimes it's half on signingand half on publication or
something like that.
There are exceptions to everyrule, but it means that the
money coming in is verysporadic.
And also a lot of people assume,at least I did.
(12:36):
that, that 15% that the agencyretains from a deal that it all
goes to the agent, but itdoesn't
David Gwyn (12:44):
Mm.
Vicky Weber (12:45):
agency has operation costs as well.
Emails, you know, subscriptionsgotta send out tax forms.
All of those fund things, which
David Gwyn (12:53):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (12:55):
your, the agent is only getting a portion of that
15%, which means that.
some of these deals that theycould be doing, they could be
making 20 bucks on.
I, I just did a deal the otherday that I made$20.
So because of that and becauseof just the general economy and
(13:15):
also volume, there are fewerpeople that are able to sustain.
David Gwyn (13:22):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (13:24):
Do, you know, to, to support their families in
that regard.
And so what used to happen is,is most agents were people who
were, you know, trust fundbabies or had a spouse with a
really good job, or maybe theirhouse was already paid off or
something like that.
David Gwyn (13:42):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (13:42):
Then we had a window where there was more
opportunity because of all ofthe remote possibilities.
David Gwyn (13:48):
Yep.
Vicky Weber (13:49):
you know, not needing to be in person or live
in New York was a very big deal,with so many people struggling
financially.
There are just only so manyhours in the day.
So more agents than ever beforeare leaving for personal
reasons, for financial reasonsfor all of those things.
(14:09):
And there are editors also,their positions are being cut at
publishers purely for financialreasons and as well, which means
editor lists are smaller.
Which then means agent lists aresmaller and because of all of
the information out there now onhow to write a book, how to get
(14:29):
agented, how to do all of thosethings, have more queries and
more people writing than everbefore.
So the statistics andpercentages are way, way
different than even five, 10years ago.
David Gwyn (14:45):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (14:45):
so all of that makes a huge difference and
it's.
Much more competitive overall.
David Gwyn (14:51):
no, that makes a lot of sense.
And it is this trend that Ithink I keep hearing from agents
and, and writers as well, youknow?
It, it almost feels like I don'twanna say random because I think
that there are some benchmarksyou have to hit, which we're
gonna talk about in, in a fewseconds.
Like to be considered that levelthat is able to be agented
because I think that there is a,a certain bar you have to hit of
(15:12):
like craft and structure, andyou have to know a certain
amount of things when it comesto writing.
To kind of be there.
But once you're there, it doesfeel kind of random as like
where you end up with like whatagent or what publisher.
It does, it does feel like ithas a lot to do with just the
kind of the, the taste of, ofthe editor at the time.
And and the other thing that,that kind of goes to this point,
(15:32):
which is you mentioned in thisarticle that the bar for what it
means to be ready to sign withan agent is a lot higher than it
used to be.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat as well?
Vicky Weber (15:43):
Yeah, well, what used to happen is a manuscript
would come in and an agent wouldbe able to look at it and say, I
know who would love thisconcept.
I can, I have a vision for howthis would work editorially.
They'd jump on a call, talk tothe author, make sure they're on
(16:04):
the same page, and then offer,and then they would dig in and
they would do the editorialwork, or agents would send it
out as is
David Gwyn (16:12):
Mm-hmm.
Vicky Weber (16:13):
editors used to do a lot more developmental work
than they're willing to do now.
David Gwyn (16:17):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (16:18):
most editors that I know at publishing houses either
do very little developmentalediting or none at
David Gwyn (16:26):
Mm-hmm.
Vicky Weber (16:27):
It's more copy editing and fine tuning and
tweaking,
David Gwyn (16:31):
Hmm.
Vicky Weber (16:31):
that the developmental side now falls on.
or if you're not an editorialagent, it falls on the author
prior to being signed.
David Gwyn (16:41):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (16:41):
And that is not how the balance used to be.
But the, the reason thathappened is because the volume
is so high.
If you
David Gwyn (16:50):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (16:51):
you know, so many manuscripts to choose from,
you're going to PI pick the, thebest one from the batch rather
than the one that needs the mostwork.
David Gwyn (16:59):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (16:59):
when you're drowning in emails and.
You know,
David Gwyn (17:04):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (17:04):
hours in the day.
David Gwyn (17:05):
then you're doing deals for$20 and you're like,
what?
Like, like, how am I, how can I,you know, in increase my volume?
You know, I think is is part ofwhat it is.
Being an agent, having talked toa bunch of agents is.
How do I sign more writers?
Sure.
But not just sign writers.
Sign writers who are then goingto get publishing deals.
Vicky Weber (17:23):
Exactly.
Well, and writers who going toput the work in because there
are some writers who are notopen to editorial
David Gwyn (17:31):
Mm-hmm.
Vicky Weber (17:31):
And so then those conversations take a very
different turn.
Or there are some authors whothink that their agent.
Should or could or will act morelike a developmental editor
David Gwyn (17:44):
Hmm.
Vicky Weber (17:45):
they'll send their manuscript to their agent 6, 7,
8 times before going onsubmission.
Well, if each read through of anovel is 5, 6, 7, 8 hours.
Much more.
If it's fantasy,
David Gwyn (17:59):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (18:00):
a lot of time investment for potentially$20
David Gwyn (18:03):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (18:04):
potentially$0.
David Gwyn (18:05):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (18:06):
so it, it can be worth it.
But for me as an agent, what'sreally important, because the
thing I cannot teach is at thewant to be good at the craft.
David Gwyn (18:19):
Hmm.
Vicky Weber (18:19):
I can give a lot of tools.
I can teach skills, I canbrainstorm and help an author
become better.
But not if they don't wanna bebetter and they don't wanna put
that effort in.
David Gwyn (18:32):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (18:32):
that's something that I look for beyond genre and
beyond where the manuscript isright now.
I also wanna make sure, can Iwork with this person long term?
David Gwyn (18:41):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (18:41):
would an editor want to work with this person
long term?
David Gwyn (18:44):
Yeah.
And I, I think that's reallyinteresting.
And, and, and you've, you'veoutlined in the article some
important information about howto make your book ready.
So, like I said, for people whoare listening, definitely go
read it.
I'll link it below.
And, and, and I wanna dig in alittle bit on this I idea of
what you're looking for in, infirst pages.
And really just, I'm reallyinterested in kind of how you,
or if you try to assesssomeone's investment in their
(19:08):
writing.
Are you able to do that from aquery and line level basis, or
is that, does that happen morewhen you're on the phone with
them?
If you're thinking aboutoffering representation?
Vicky Weber (20:06):
Usually the piece about what it would be like to
work with an author
David Gwyn (20:10):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (20:11):
not apparent from the writing itself.
David Gwyn (20:14):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Vicky Weber (20:15):
the writing, you know, if it's, if it's already
strong, it could support piecesomewhere else, but usually my
first introduction to that isthe query letter.
David Gwyn (20:26):
Yeah,
Vicky Weber (20:27):
Even little things like I am a member of insert
organization here, or I havecritique partners.
That in itself tells me, Hmm,this person is used to to
hearing feedback.
David Gwyn (20:40):
yeah,
Vicky Weber (20:41):
You would not believe how many authors don't
even have that
David Gwyn (20:45):
yeah.
Vicky Weber (20:45):
piece or
David Gwyn (20:46):
it.
Vicky Weber (20:46):
want
David Gwyn (20:47):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (20:48):
So there are things that you can say that about your
hobbies, your life, your homelife, your personality, things
like that, that help me readbetween the lines on what it
might be like to work with you.
David Gwyn (21:02):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (21:02):
Beyond that, sometimes I'll get people via
referrals.
referrals from authors I alreadyrepresent, or here's the reason
why I think it's so important topersisting.
Keep putting yourself out thereand really highlight what it
would be like to work with you,because if I get something in my
(21:23):
inbox and I can tell it's good,but it's not a fit for me, I'm
not the right salesperson.
will always, always try to referthem to somebody if it's within
my power.
If there's somebody I can thinkof
David Gwyn (21:37):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (21:39):
you, just because it's not a fit for me, doesn't
mean it shouldn't be publishedor it shouldn't be out there.
And there's a lot of agents whohave that mentality as well.
David Gwyn (21:49):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (21:51):
Yeah, I guess that's.
what I would, what I would do isfocus on that query letter and
then also don't be afraid totake advantage of other
opportunities.
Sometimes I meet people atconferences, or sometimes I'll
have someone, I actually reallylove this.
will have passed on theirmanuscript like a year prior,
(22:12):
they will re-query me andthey'll say first thing in the
query letter, Hey Vicki, I sentthis to you last year and you
passed because blah, blah, blah.
But I've gone back to it.
It's gone through extensiverevisions and here's why I still
think it would be a good fit.
I hope you don't mind taking asecond look.
(22:33):
That to me says this person iswilling to put in the work for
sure, but they're also willingto fight for their vision.
David Gwyn (22:42):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (22:44):
and they're, they're taking that extra next
step of.
Hey, you sent, I sent this toyou already, but hoping that
you'll take a second look and,and I think a good handful of
clients that I've signed havebeen ones who have done exactly
that because
David Gwyn (23:02):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (23:02):
can see their old query and see how much they
improved.
David Gwyn (23:06):
Yeah, it's so funny.
I, I run a writing community ofwhich you, you, you know, this,
you, you were part of one of ourpitch sessions and I, so I get
con, I get, we haveconversations like this all the
time.
I get questions like this allthe time.
Like, Hey, I queried this agent.
Should I follow up?
Should I, you know, these arethings that are happening in
conversation all the time andthis in this group.
And I always remind them, hahaving had had the, the
(23:27):
privilege and, and opportunityto talk to a variety of agents.
I'm always like, yes, there arerules or guidelines, but they're
wider than you think they are.
Like every, I think every writeris afraid of stepping outta the
guidelines.
Like, oh, I already queriedVicki, and you know, she said I
should fix this, and now I'vedone that and like, should I,
and I'm, I'm always like, yes.
(23:48):
Because at the end of the day,agents are people who really
want to represent great books.
If you think your book is agreat fit for them.
Then, no, you shouldn't querythem five days after and say
like, yeah, I fixed it.
Like if you've, if you've donethe work, like you're mentioning
agents want to represent greatbooks, like that's why you're in
this industry.
Like you're not in this industryto say no to people.
(24:10):
You're in this industry to sayyes to people.
And I think to to your point,like there are guidelines, there
are guide rails that are up, butlike they're wider than, than a
lot of writers are led tobelieve.
And I think that that's part ofit is like.
If there's a good faith reasonfor you to re-query or reach out
again, no agent's gonna likeblacklist you because of that.
(24:33):
Like, and I'd be like, no,you'll never have an agent now
because you, you know, didextensive work on something that
I suggested you work on and, andasked, had the audacity to ask
me.
Like, it's, it's not like that.
And you know, I.
Vicky Weber (24:44):
how you phrase that though, like a good faith
reason.
Is, is just a great way to putthat because I have had some
people who I say, you know, Hey,this is a past because the, I
don't know what to do with thisconcept.
I'm just not the right fit.
And then they'll turn around andresend it to me a couple days
later and I'll be like.
(25:04):
I
David Gwyn (25:05):
Still not.
Vicky Weber (25:05):
not the right fit for X, Y, Z reason.
I did have somebody do that tome eight times,
David Gwyn (25:11):
Wow.
Vicky Weber (25:12):
once.
And so that person was, was the,the talk of some agent groups
because I was like,
David Gwyn (25:19):
That makes sense.
Vicky Weber (25:19):
to understand?
Am I not saying the right thing?
David Gwyn (25:22):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (25:23):
But it
David Gwyn (25:23):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (25:24):
positivity too.
There's an author, actuallythere's several authors who.
I do not represent, but I've hadinteractions with, and I've seen
their stories and I have workedwith them in a weird adjacent
capacity or met them at aconference or something, and I
rave about them to agent friendsand some of them have gotten
signed that way because, youknow, they, because I won't stop
(25:49):
talking about them.
David Gwyn (25:50):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (25:51):
And that's
David Gwyn (25:52):
That's awesome.
Vicky Weber (25:52):
problem to have.
And so I do wish more authorswould.
their query letters, in theirwriting in their interactions
with agents to let theirpersonality
David Gwyn (26:03):
Mm.
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (26:05):
because I do think that more often than not, people
think that they need to beoverly formal or overly
professional.
You can be professional andstill be you.
David Gwyn (26:15):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (26:15):
can do all of those things and you can be, you know,
kind and firm.
All of those things that youshould be, but still.
Be you.
David Gwyn (26:25):
Yeah.
Vicky Weber (26:26):
and that's what really stands out a lot of the
time is a, is a personality.
And there's all kinds of those.
David Gwyn (26:33):
Definitely in the writing industry too, that's for
sure.
So Vicki, I, I could, I couldtalk to you all night.
This is so much fun and we'regonna have to get something else
on the books, but I, I just havetwo more questions for you.
One what genres are you lookingfor right now?
And then I'll ask my second oneafter.
After I.
Vicky Weber (26:45):
So right now I'm really looking to grow my adult
list a little bit more.
I like to say that my taste isintensity based.
So it, you know, when it comesto horror, I want like, all the
eerie, creepy, spooky.
I am not afraid of a good genreblend, so, you know, I love when
thriller and horror fusedtogether.
I love suspense.
(27:06):
I really like anything.
that realm, speculative, magicalrealism is plot driven, but with
very strong characters who aremessy.
I see a lot of characters thatare just too perfect and I'm
like, no, no, no.
You don't understand.
I'm reading to feel better aboutmy own life and.
(27:29):
And so I feel like, well, atleast I don't have that problem.
I don't wanna read about perfectpeople because then, then I'm
the problem child.
Like, no thank you.
David Gwyn (27:40):
Love that.
Vicky Weber (27:41):
so I really want that mess, but really across,
across adult fiction, I wantmore.
Weird things.
The things where you can justsay, oh yeah, it's this meets
that, or it's this weird hook.
and everybody goes, oh, wellwhat does that mean?
Now I wanna find out.
(28:01):
I'm not afraid of those.
In fact, I, I really like it.
So the
David Gwyn (28:05):
Very cool.
No, that's great.
And my last question for you isjust where can people find you?
Where can people look you up?
Vicky Weber (28:10):
Sure.
Pretty much everywhere.
Google is your friend?
David Gwyn (28:13):
Yep.
Vicky Weber (28:13):
no, I'm on Twitter, X, whatever the heck it's
called.
I'm on blue sky.
I run a blog called At HomeAuthor with lots of writing
tips.
That's where you'll find theblog post that, that you
mentioned on the CMA website.
And yeah, really I'm, I'm alittle bit of everywhere.
I'm pretty easy to track down ifyou just punch my name in
David Gwyn (28:35):
Nice.
That's awesome.
So Vicki, thank you so much fortaking the time to chat.
I will link to all that stuffdown in the description, so if
you want quick access to Vickiyou can go down there and check
it out.
This has been really fun.
Like I said, I, I could talk toyou all night, so this was
great.
Vicky Weber (28:48):
Well, thank you for having me.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Two Guys, Five Rings: Matt, Bowen & The Olympics
Two Guys (Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers). Five Rings (you know, from the Olympics logo). One essential podcast for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Winter Olympics. Bowen Yang (SNL, Wicked) and Matt Rogers (Palm Royale, No Good Deed) of Las Culturistas are back for a second season of Two Guys, Five Rings, a collaboration with NBC Sports and iHeartRadio. In this 15-episode event, Bowen and Matt discuss the top storylines, obsess over Italian culture, and find out what really goes on in the Olympic Village.