You’re going to love this exclusive conversation with Chantelle Aimée Osman, Senior Editor at Simon & Schuster's new imprint, Simon Maverick.
Chantelle reveals how the publishing industry is evolving to meet indie and hybrid authors where they are.
And why audio is becoming the new frontier that could transform your writing career.
Discover the submission strategies that actually work, learn why your biggest strength might be the one thing editors can't fix, and find out how to reframe rejection in a way that accelerates rather than derails your publishing journey.
Whether you're traditionally published, indie, or still figuring out your path, this conversation offers insider insights that could change everything about how you approach your writing career.
Past Episodes with Chantelle
- How to Edit Your Own Writing with Author & Editor Chantelle Aimée Osman
- Chantelle Aimée Osman Interview Series: An Editor's Advice for Writers
- Rethinking Rejection & How to Form a Team for Your Work with Chantelle Aimée Osman
What You'll Learn:
- Why audio publishing is the new gold rush opportunity
- The one manuscript element editors absolutely cannot fix
- How to reframe rejection as progress toward your goal
Click here to learn more about Chantelle Aimee Osman
Guest Bio: Chantelle Aimée Osman (she/her) is senior editor at Simon & Schuster's newest imprint, Simon Maverick. Prior to joining Simon & Schuster, Chantelle Aimée Osman was an acquiring editor at Amazon Publishing, where she worked with bestselling authors such as Robert Dugoni, Mark Sullivan, Suzanne Redfearn, Megan Chance, Victoria Helen Stone, and Simon Tolkien. Previously, she helped found Agora Books, an imprint of independent press Polis Books, focusing on crime fiction and horror with unique social and cultural voices—themes which still hold a special place in her heart. She's online at chantelleaimee.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David Gwyn (00:00):
Chantelle, welcome to the Thriller 1 0 1 podcast.
(00:02):
It is great to have you back.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (00:04):
It is a pleasure, David.
Thank you for always having meon.
David Gwyn (00:08):
Yeah.
So before we get into it, I, I,I just wanna tell people you
know, you're a great editor.
So many insights on thepublishing industry, and you're
an absolute pleasure to talk to.
So I always really enjoy ourconversations and I'm really
looking forward to this one.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (00:20):
well, I I will definitely only disappoint
now.
David Gwyn (00:23):
I set the bar really high, but that's all right.
We'll, we'll be all right.
You'll exceed it.
I, I know you will.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (00:28):
Carry me.
I know it.
David Gwyn (00:31):
And yeah.
And so for anyone who'slistening, I'll, I'll also link
our past conversation withChantelle in the description so
you can check out, check thoseout when, when you're done with
this episode.
Because they are all gems.
I, I feel like I learned so muchabout the publishing industry
because you are, you're one ofthose people I love to talk to
because you're really clear andtransparent about things that
are happening.
And I really love that.
I, I think that, you know, yougive so many insights for people
(00:52):
who, in, in a, in an industrythat is.
Murky.
It, it, you certainly do shine alight on, on just writers having
a better understanding of what'sgoing on.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (01:01):
I appreciate that and it's
absolutely my pleasure.
I mean, it's just, I, I comefrom a background where, you
know, I worked in politics, Iworked in Hollywood, and I
worked in publishing,
David Gwyn (01:11):
Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (01:11):
all of these seem to have these like, I
don't know gilded gates that,you know, you can only peer
through.
And honestly, once you get tothe other side, it's.
frequently not as exciting asyou think it's gonna be.
So, you know, always, alwayshappy to help inform, because
the publishing horror storiesthat I hear really just come
(01:32):
from a lack of either bothparties being on the same page
or just, you know, a lack of,lack of education about how the
industry really works.
David Gwyn (01:41):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, so true.
And and that's why I love havingyou on,'cause I feel like you.
Are one of those people who, whohas so much experience in the
industry and are you're able to,to kind of speak from, from that
position of, of having thatexperience.
So let's get into it here.
So last time we spoke, you wereworking at Amazon's Lake Union,
and now you're a senior editorat Simon and Schuster's, newest
imprint Simon Maverick.
(02:03):
First congratulations and, andsecond, what can you tell us
about that imprint?
Chantelle Aimée Osman (02:07):
Well, it's really exciting because not
only are we the newest imprintover at Simon and Schuster, but
we're also doing audio which Iadmit is a new thing for me.
So I have been learning a lot inthe past few months, and also
it's, it's really excitingbecause we're not only dealing
with audio, but.
We're primarily focused on indieand hybrid authors.
David Gwyn (02:29):
Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (02:30):
and, and, and it comes I think from kind
of twofold.
You know, the market is clearlychanging and it's very smart of
publishers like Simon andSchuster to really want to be
where people are consuming media
David Gwyn (02:43):
Yep.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (02:43):
audio is one of those places it's on the
rise.
But it's also really coolbecause these indie authors and
these hybrid authors are doingso much by themselves.
David Gwyn (02:53):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (02:54):
They do as much as, you know, almost an
entire publisher does, you know,from
David Gwyn (02:59):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (02:59):
not only writing the book, which is, you
know, the highest mountain toclimb to begin with but then
figuring out editing and coverand how to get it out there,
formatting and just all of thosethings.
And, and figuring out how to doit.
And not only doing it, but doingit really, really well,
David Gwyn (03:18):
Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (03:18):
where they're getting in front of.
So much more eyes than a lot of,you know, traditionally
published books are.
David Gwyn (03:26):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (03:27):
being able to step in from this audio
side and, and say, Hey, youknow, this is, this is a spot
where we can help these indieauthors because.
Audio production is often verycost prohibitive.
David Gwyn (03:39):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (03:39):
a lot involved.
It's also very difficult to, youknow, kind of speaking of that
gatekeeping, you know, it's,it's hard for an author who's
just going solo to, you know,get into some of these retailers
to
David Gwyn (03:51):
Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (03:52):
out how to be part of deals and, and all
of that stuff.
That really does help.
And, and so to be able to like.
Step in and fill in that rolefor these already really
hardworking authors is reallyrewarding.
And like I said, I'm, I'mlearning a lot.
It's, it's a whole world outthere that I, I have always
like, dabbled in because Ipersonally love audio books, but
(04:13):
I, I knew very little about theproduction side.
I also, you know, I, I'm talkingto so many authors who have, you
know, dream cast of narrators,it kind of reminds me of, you
know, the, the, the wonder thatan author has when they, you
know, they, they have a visionin mind for a cover, right.
And it's kind of the same thing,like they wanna cast the voices
in their head.
David Gwyn (04:34):
Yep.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (04:34):
And so it's, it's really wonderful to
be on that journey with theauthor.
David Gwyn (04:39):
Yeah, I love that.
It, it's interesting for, forsome reason, I don't know why
necessarily, actually, I, Iprobably do know why.
So the, I've talked, I've beentalking to, to writers obviously
for the podcast and also forthe, the community that I run.
And it's come up a few timeswhere someone in the community
that I run has read the book,the author's book, or listened
(04:59):
to it, I should say, in audioformat and then.
Had the opportunity to ask thatauthor like, oh, did you get to
pick?
And it's just now as we'rehaving this conversation, I'm
realizing that that's come up afew times now in those
conversations.
And I think it is, it's one ofthose things, it's like now
writers who used to think abouttheir cover and casting the, the
movie versions of theircharacters, now they also get
(05:19):
that added bonus of potentiallycasting like an audio side as
well.
So talk a little bit about yourrole.
Like, what does it, what does itlook like?
So I'm guessing, you know,someone comes to you are, are
you seeking people out?
Are, are people submitting toyou?
What does it look like?
Chantelle Aimée Osman (05:34):
it's a little bit of both.
And
David Gwyn (05:35):
Okay.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (05:36):
I mean, it, it's unique from other
imprints in the sense that, youknow, like I said, we're dealing
with, with only, or mostlyhybrid and
David Gwyn (05:44):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (05:45):
We have some debuts as well.
But it, it's, you know, findingpeople in different places,
which is also really cool.
David Gwyn (05:52):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (05:52):
I think probably one of the first times
we talked, I was still at Agora.
David Gwyn (05:56):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (05:57):
books.
And, and one of the things thatI absolutely loved about that
position was, you know, we, wewere publishing mostly crime
fiction and horror fromunderrepresented or unique
cultural voices.
And, and so this was kind of athing where it was, it was
finding people that had not gonea traditional path.
(06:19):
And so it's a, it's a little bitsimilar to what we're doing now
in, in finding some of thesepeople because it's not
necessarily, you know, themajority of indie authors might
not have an agent or so yeah, weget, we get a bunch of agented
submissions like any otherimprint.
But then there's a really funkind of, you know, if you like
(06:39):
falling down a rabbit hole, thenthis is a job for you.
Because, you know, all of us onour team are.
Are constantly, you know, evenif we're on our own private,
like social media, we're goinglike, oh, does this person have
a book coming out?
Oh, what's this person talkingabout?
So it's, it's a really fun newdiscovery method as well.
So, so
David Gwyn (06:57):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (06:57):
of different places is the answer
to your question.
David Gwyn (07:00):
Yeah.
No, that's great.
I, I feel like and, and youkinda mentioned this early on,
moving to an audio format is, isso smart for a ton of reasons.
And, and the main one, you know,finding different voices and,
and finding readers where theyare, where they want to be, you
know, listening to books.
Yeah.
I, I think, I think that it'ssuch a smart.
A, a maybe a pivot, maybe notlike a full move, but like a
(07:21):
pivot for Simon Schuster to havea have a, a a an imprint like
this, I think is really smart.
So when you're, when you'rethinking about what you're
looking to acquire, are you, doyou think in genres, do you
think in voice?
Is it a little bit ofeverything?
Chantelle Aimée Osman (07:36):
It's a little bit of everything.
I mean, a good book is a goodbook and,
David Gwyn (07:39):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (07:40):
I refuse to let them slip through the
cracks if they
David Gwyn (07:43):
Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (07:43):
my desk.
And, and we do do print, we havepartnered with other imprints at
Simon and Schuster to put outprint for titles where it seems
right to do that.
So, you know, print is notnecessarily off the table.
If you're publishing with us,it's probably just gonna be a,
you know, joint, joint venture.
But I, I would say generallybroadly commercial fiction,
(08:04):
genre fiction is, is what mostpeople are listening to.
Things like romantic, and likedark academia and like those
areas are really, really popularin audio.
I'm also really excited becausefor the first time in.
A long time I'm able to dealwith nonfiction, which I
David Gwyn (08:25):
Oh fun.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (08:25):
kind of harder to find in the indie
publishing space.
But it's out there and they'rekind of my unicorns because, you
know, I, I want some of those.
I, I love nonfiction and woulddefinitely like to have more of
that on my list, but.
I, I'm, I'm basically, I, I lovethis position because I get to
play in as many genres as I wantto.
(08:47):
When
David Gwyn (08:47):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (08:48):
at Amazon, it was very difficult
for me to, to stay at LakeUnion, which was my primary
imprint, but I also acquired forThomas and Mercer.
David Gwyn (08:55):
Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (08:56):
I got some missions for 47 North.
I did some Amazon originalstories.
So I, I have a hard time Davidstaying in my lane.
So it, it gives me theopportunity of, hey, if it's
just something good you know, Ican
David Gwyn (09:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's so interesting.
So, so I'm, I'm, now, I thinkI'm getting the kind of scope
here.
And, and correct me where I goawry.
'cause I inevitably will, whenI'm kind of saying this back to
you, are you taking on, are youtaking on submissions for like
audio only rights?
So these are indie publisherswho published a book and now
wanna do audio with you?
(09:31):
Or are you taking on like fullsubmissions, doing the audio,
and potentially the paperback?
Or is it a mix?
Chantelle Aimée Osman (09:37):
it's a, it's a
David Gwyn (09:38):
Gotcha.
Okay.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (09:40):
all over the place which is what I like
about it.
And like I
David Gwyn (09:43):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (09:43):
new.
You know, the announcement forMaverick came in January.
Our first books, you know, ourfirst, like, we had a couple, a
handful before that, but our,our first, you know, real,
strong list of titles started asstrong is the wrong word.
It wasn't like the other oneswere weak, but like a
consistently scheduled liststarted being published in in
March,
David Gwyn (10:03):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (10:04):
when I also came on board.
So realized we're, you know, inJuly.
So we've only really been aroundfor a few months and we're
still, you know, I always say,that we're like velociraptors
testing the fences in like areally positive, smiling
velociraptor kind of way.
Because we're just reallyexcited to keep like pushing the
(10:25):
barriers, breaking them down,figuring out, you know, what new
things we can do.
I.
David Gwyn (10:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's really cool.
And, and so where do you see,where do you see, I mean, you've
got boots on the ground here interms of audio.
Where do you see audio going inthe future?
Do you see it continuing toexpand?
I.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (10:43):
Oh, I think so.
I mean I know I'm not the firstperson to make this analogy but
I don't know who was so, I can'tgive credit.
I, I feel like the audio marketthat we're in right now reminds
me in a lot of ways when eBookskind of started, like
David Gwyn (10:58):
Oh yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (10:59):
up.
Like not when they first cameout, but like when it started to
become the, oh yeah, this isreally the new way we're
reading.
David Gwyn (11:06):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (11:07):
I feel like audio books are kind of at
that, at that point as well,where, you know, before, and I
mean, I'm sure I'm dating myselfhere, but you know, I, I've
always listened to audio books.
Like I would actually, there wasa store near me when I was, I
think like in high school andthey, it was like a video store,
(11:27):
but it was for audio cassette.
And it was rental.
You could go in and rent.
And I did that all the time, orelse you'd be getting it from
the library.
And I think just like those,those, you know, kind of like
going and renting an audiobookfrom a library wasn't a thing
that a lot of people did.
And, and it's a very different.
(11:48):
today.
I mean, I think everybody'slistening to them in one way,
shape, or
David Gwyn (11:54):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (11:54):
I just really love how it makes so much
more accessible.
For so
David Gwyn (12:00):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (12:02):
so I think that's wonderful too.
And, and there's just so manypositives to it.
And, and I will gladly plant myflag flag in the listening to an
audio book counts as reading
David Gwyn (12:12):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (12:13):
Because I, I think it's great and just,
you know, there are so manyvenues to find audio books.
I mean, I know that we all, youknow, have our audible accounts,
but you know, there's Spotify,there's, there's, you know, my,
my library,
David Gwyn (12:27):
Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (12:27):
System has an audiobook like download
app.
David Gwyn (12:31):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (12:32):
So they're, they're just kind of
everywhere and it's, it's,they're easy to find.
And it's great to be able to,you know, actually ha if you
don't have the time and youknow, God knows if you have a
bunch of kids or
David Gwyn (12:46):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (12:47):
like you can't spend that time reading,
but you kinda can now.
David Gwyn (12:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And no, that, that's, that,that's so true.
And I, I had a huge revelationwhen I found out that my library
has one of those apps as well,where you can download eBooks
or, or audiobooks if you're alibrary member.
It was like a, a revelation for,for me.
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (13:07):
Like, you know, I encourage everyone to
use their libraries and check itout because, you know,
especially in, in nowadays, youknow, you can, you can.
Rent, or, well not really rent,just borrow eBooks and audio
from your library.
David Gwyn (13:22):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (13:22):
you know, it doesn't necessarily have to
be a huge financial commitment
David Gwyn (13:26):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
I'm, I'm curious what trends, ifany, that you're seeing in the
kinds of books or authors thatdo well in audio format, whether
that's like genre type ofstorytelling, like are there any
trends where you're like, I.
Maybe you're not looking for it,but you're realizing kind of
retroactively, oh wow, this bookis doing really well in audio
(13:46):
format and that makes sensebecause of X, Y, and Z.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (14:37):
That's a, that's a hard question because
I, first of all, I don't thinkanything really ever goes out of
style.
David Gwyn (14:42):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (14:43):
you know that I love the horror genre
and, but that's something where,you know, it was really super
popular in the eighties andnineties and then it became
like.
one read horror, no one wasacquiring horror, you know?
But guess what?
It always was there.
Like, it just wasn't in thespotlight, but it was always
there.
And then a few years ago, peoplewere like, guess what?
(15:05):
This is becoming popular again.
Like it didn't go anywhere.
Same thing with, you know, a lotof these, I'll call them cozier
fantasy like legends and lattes,right?
David Gwyn (15:16):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (15:17):
That was, and it's a great book, don't get
me wrong.
Highly recommend all of hisseries, but stuff has been
around that wasn't, you know,particularly groundbreaking.
It's been.
Always in the fantasy genre, butyou know, there are just kind of
these ebbs and flows that go youknow, and, and you can trace,
(15:39):
too much of a nerd.
You shouldn't have asked me thisquestion, but like, you could,
you, you can trace certaingenres to political and economic
climates.
Zombies always become popular intimes of economic downturn or
uncertainty.
go back to like when the WalkingDead.
Was Resurging, you know, likethat first started.
David Gwyn (16:00):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (16:00):
and look at that, the, the climate that
we were in then we're getting alittle bit more zombies coming
back right now.
David Gwyn (16:07):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (16:07):
Of course that completely went away for,
you know, lockdown.
David Gwyn (16:12):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osm (16:13):
surrounding times because we didn't want
particularly likepost-apocalyptic fiction kind of
dropped off.
Wonder why that was so, so, youknow, kind of, I would say
probably since 2020 andcontinuing now and even
increasing, I'm seeing a lot oflike very escapist.
David Gwyn (16:33):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (16:34):
Work is really popular.
Like going back to, like I said,the romantic or the cozy fantasy
or you know, that sort of thing.
I, I think I think people arereally liking that.
And, and using the reading orlistening to escape, not
necessarily as much as, youknow.
I, I don't know, for example,historical fiction, which I
(16:57):
still think is a very stronggenre, but I've seen a shift in
the last few years of what typesof historical fiction are
working.
You know, for a while it wasthis very like.
Not that historical fictionshould be inaccurate, but it was
this like a highly accurateoften kind of depressing history
(17:17):
that was being told.
And, and that was what waspopular.
And those stories are kind ofnot working right now in favor
of.
know, lighter, historical, youknow,
David Gwyn (17:29):
Hm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (17:29):
romances or you know, I always like to
use the, like, you know, womanwho got divorced and, and got a
cottage you know, suddenlyinherited a cottage in
David Gwyn (17:40):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (17:41):
From an aunt she'd never heard of.
And so she goes there and then.
Discovers her diary or a bunchof letters.
And so we have like a dual POVwith this kind of like escapist
story that, that takes two womenon a journey.
Those kind of things are, aredefinitely, you know, more
popular, I think.
(18:01):
And
David Gwyn (18:02):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (18:02):
there are exceptions to everything and
David Gwyn (18:04):
Of course.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (18:05):
I definitely don't know all of the
things, but yeah, I thinkgenerally like the more upbeat
escapist.
Stuff is working a lot betterright now.
David Gwyn (18:15):
You've now had a lot of editing experience.
how Has your experience changedthe way you approach editing a
project, if at all?
Chantelle Aimée Osman (18:25):
That's a really good question and one
that I probably don't have theanswer to.
One of my.
Favorite things to do is eitherteach teach writing and editing,
or, you know, actually get myhands dirty on a manuscript.
So yes, I absolutely I lovetaking on developmental editing
work.
You know, it's, it's, I find itvery rewarding to kind of like
(18:45):
be in the trenches with the,with the words you know, in
addition to the industryoverall.
So, you know, always, alwaysopen to taking more on.
I think one of the reasons thatI enjoy being an editor so much
I.
Is because I'm constantlylearning and constantly being
surprised whether or not it'slike I, I have a ton of random
(19:07):
facts at my disposal from justsearching a thing in continuity
in a book that I'm editing, youknow?
When were zippers invented, youknow, could, could they possibly
have had one at this time?
So I, I love that and love, youknow, falling down, like I said
before, like all of those littlerabbit holes that you can find
out, fall down.
(19:28):
So I, I really love the learningprocess.
I'm always learning from everymanuscript that I read but, but
also just I love being surprisedby great writing.
So I think that's kind of why Icontinue to be in love with what
I do because I'm alwaysdiscovering something and a new
(19:48):
voice and, and and I think I, ifI had a philosophy on editing,
which you're kind of likeforcing me to come up with one.
Well, I, I, I think that if Ihad one, it is that.
The author knows how to telltheir story.
I think the most importantelement to a story is voice.
You know, I can always fixpacing or, you know, if there's
(20:12):
a plot hole, like I'm not gonnasay who cares.
But that's, these are all thingsthat are fixable.
But there's one thing that Icannot edit into a manuscript,
and it's the author's passionand the author's voice in
telling that story.
And so it's really important tome when I edit to make, make
sure that that is, you know,sacrosanct and, and.
(20:33):
I am, I am showing them the pathto get their words or their,
their end goal across as, ascleanly and distinctly as
possible.
But I want them to do it theirway and, and not mine.
That's not my job.
David Gwyn (20:49):
Yeah.
I, I love that.
So I think I already know theanswer to this next question,
but I'm gonna ask anyway'causeI, I, I love hearing your
thoughts on this.
So if, if you have a, a writerwho's listening to this podcast
listening to, to you talk and,and realizes what I'm sure
they're realizing, which is I.
You know a lot about theindustry.
You know, you're a talentededitor.
You, you understand what's goingon and where things are headed,
you know, a, a great potentialfit for, as an, as an editor,
(21:12):
whether developmental or to, topitch you at, at Maverick what
advice would you give thatwriter who's sitting there
thinking about okay, I, I wantto be, I wanna get my manuscript
as ready as possible beforegoing to Chantelle, or before
going to an agent or apublisher, whoever it is.
What are some things thatwhether they're common things
that you see on your end or juststuff that they should be really
(21:33):
thinking about before sendingtheir book out?
Chantelle Aimée Osman (21:36):
Well, two things.
First of all, you know, again,we do accept UN agented
submissions and all of ourinformation is available on the
Simon Maverick website.
So, you know, please feel freeif you have something that you
think would fit for us, thatwould be great.
I.
I'm also also searchable online.
I know David's gonna have all ofmy info and my various websites,
(21:57):
so, you know, never hesitate toreach out even with just a
question.
I, as you might be able to telllistener, I love answering them.
So, so it would be my pleasure Ithink the important things are.
Make the book the best book itcan be, but you at some point
have to walk away from it andrely on other people, whether
(22:18):
it's a, you know, an agent or adevelopmental editor or you
know, an editor to publishinghouse to bring out the best.
In that book.
But I unfortunately know far toomany people who have a book, you
know, and they're stillpolishing chapter one, 10 years
in.
Right.
And chapter one looks nothinglike what they dreamt of when
(22:39):
they first wrote the book 10years ago.
So, so, you know, you can thinktoo much and do too little in
that sense.
So I, I think, you know, gettingit to a place that you're at
least.
Somewhat confident you know,making sure it's formatted
appropriately.
All of that fun stuff that'sreally boring.
You know, but, but then, youknow, seek advice from other
(23:01):
people, you know, reach out tothat agent, reach out, you know,
don't.
Part of I think being a writeris understanding that there's
always something else you couldhave done, you know, at any part
in the process, right?
Like, you know, it, it's, it'sprobably not the comma that you
must, that caused an agent tosay no.
It just wasn't the book of theirheart.
(23:23):
Like, and the thing is that, andI know I've talked to you about
this before, David, but I, I cannever emphasize this too much
like a no in this industry isnot a rejection.
It's just a, no, this is notright for me.
And, and the best part of beingin publishing, whether you're an
indie author or publishedtraditionally, or working as an
(23:44):
editor, whatever it is, is youare creating a great team.
I.
And, and you want all the peopleon your team to be like gung-ho
over the moon, super excitedabout your book, and so what
you're getting with that no, isnot really a, this is bad.
(24:04):
I don't like it.
It's just this isn't.
That cheerleader for you, andthat's helping you weed it out
until you find the person thatis, you know, and then that
person, you know, might be youragent, might be your editor, but
all of these people are going tobe massive cheerleaders for you.
And, and the no is just a, youknow, it's, it's just like you,
(24:27):
if you go to a bookstore oryou're browsing online or
however you.
Buy your books or read yourbooks.
You know, it's not like if yougo to a shelf and you're like,
I'm gonna buy a book today.
And you pick up one and you readthe back and it's not right for
you.
Right.
Sometimes it might just not beright for you that day, but
you're certainly not likethrowing it on the floor and
(24:48):
going, this is trash and walkingaway.
Right.
And I think that so many newwriters, or writers who are
working to build their career.
Take every one of those likebooks that are like put, we put
back on the shelf while we'rebrowsing that, that's a massive
rejection.
Instead of really just a quietlike, oh no, this, you know,
this isn't right for me today.
(25:10):
'Cause you're looking for thatone person who's gonna pick that
book up and take it home.
David Gwyn (25:14):
Yeah.
No, I think that's spot on.
And I, I love that as, as aplace to kind of wrap up here
for people to think about asthey go about their day and, and
just to remember that this, thisindustry, that that's what this
industry is.
And it's, it's, it's.
Quiet passes from the beginningto the end.
You know, whether it's agentsall the way down to readers,
when your book's on thebookshelf, it's, it's just
you're just trying to find a, asection of people who champion
(25:39):
your book.
You don't need to be foreveryone.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (25:41):
Well, and honestly, it's, it's like
friendship or like dating.
Pick whatever analogy you want,you know, but you don't wanna be
friends with every single personthat you've ever met in your
life, right?
You know, you, you wanna choosethose really great ones to be
your core friend group, andthat's kind of what you're doing
here.
Like, you gotta go through theother stuff to get to the really
(26:02):
great ones.
And so yeah, a rejection isreally just a step closer to
your goal.
David Gwyn (26:08):
No, I love that.
And, and what a great place to,to wrap up.
So Chantel, I'll link to, yourwebsite in the description, this
as always, is such a joy to talkwith you.
Thank you so much for taking thetime.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (26:19):
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
I hope to talk to you againsoon.
David Gwyn (26:23):
Yeah, of course.
And, and if you're, you're stilllistening, you're still hanging
out with us go down there, checkout Chantelle's stuff.
You won't be disappointedbecause like I mentioned, you
know, we've talked kind ofthroughout your career.
I, I hadn't, I hadn't realized Ihadn't really put together that
we've been hanging out throughall the little stops along the
way,
Chantelle Aimée Osman (26:37):
We really have.
Which is why I realized I hadn'ttalked to you for a while.
David Gwyn (26:42):
I know.
I know.
So it's great as always.
So much fun.
So if you're, if you'relistening to this, go down,
check it out.
You'll, you'll love the stuffthat she puts out.
So Chantelle, thanks again.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (26:50):
Thank you so much.
I.
Chantelle, welcome to the Thriller 1 0 1 podcast.
(00:02):
It is great to have you back.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (00:04):
It is a pleasure, David.
Thank you for always having meon.
David Gwyn (00:08):
Yeah.
So before we get into it, I, I,I just wanna tell people you
know, you're a great editor.
So many insights on thepublishing industry, and you're
an absolute pleasure to talk to.
So I always really enjoy ourconversations and I'm really
looking forward to this one.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (00:20):
well, I I will definitely only disappoint
now.
David Gwyn (00:23):
I set the bar really high, but that's all right.
We'll, we'll be all right.
You'll exceed it.
I, I know you will.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (00:28):
Carry me.
I know it.
David Gwyn (00:31):
And yeah.
And so for anyone who'slistening, I'll, I'll also link
our past conversation withChantelle in the description so
you can check out, check thoseout when, when you're done with
this episode.
Because they are all gems.
I, I feel like I learned so muchabout the publishing industry
because you are, you're one ofthose people I love to talk to
because you're really clear andtransparent about things that
are happening.
And I really love that.
I, I think that, you know, yougive so many insights for people
(00:52):
who, in, in a, in an industrythat is.
Murky.
It, it, you certainly do shine alight on, on just writers having
a better understanding of what'sgoing on.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (01:01):
I appreciate that and it's
absolutely my pleasure.
I mean, it's just, I, I comefrom a background where, you
know, I worked in politics, Iworked in Hollywood, and I
worked in publishing,
David Gwyn (01:11):
Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (01:11):
all of these seem to have these like, I
don't know gilded gates that,you know, you can only peer
through.
And honestly, once you get tothe other side, it's.
frequently not as exciting asyou think it's gonna be.
So, you know, always, alwayshappy to help inform, because
the publishing horror storiesthat I hear really just come
(01:32):
from a lack of either bothparties being on the same page
or just, you know, a lack of,lack of education about how the
industry really works.
David Gwyn (01:41):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, so true.
And and that's why I love havingyou on,'cause I feel like you.
Are one of those people who, whohas so much experience in the
industry and are you're able to,to kind of speak from, from that
position of, of having thatexperience.
So let's get into it here.
So last time we spoke, you wereworking at Amazon's Lake Union,
and now you're a senior editorat Simon and Schuster's, newest
imprint Simon Maverick.
(02:03):
First congratulations and, andsecond, what can you tell us
about that imprint?
Chantelle Aimée Osman (02:07):
Well, it's really exciting because not
only are we the newest imprintover at Simon and Schuster, but
we're also doing audio which Iadmit is a new thing for me.
So I have been learning a lot inthe past few months, and also
it's, it's really excitingbecause we're not only dealing
with audio, but.
We're primarily focused on indieand hybrid authors.
David Gwyn (02:29):
Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (02:30):
and, and, and it comes I think from kind
of twofold.
You know, the market is clearlychanging and it's very smart of
publishers like Simon andSchuster to really want to be
where people are consuming media
David Gwyn (02:43):
Yep.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (02:43):
audio is one of those places it's on the
rise.
But it's also really coolbecause these indie authors and
these hybrid authors are doingso much by themselves.
David Gwyn (02:53):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (02:54):
They do as much as, you know, almost an
entire publisher does, you know,from
David Gwyn (02:59):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (02:59):
not only writing the book, which is, you
know, the highest mountain toclimb to begin with but then
figuring out editing and coverand how to get it out there,
formatting and just all of thosethings.
And, and figuring out how to doit.
And not only doing it, but doingit really, really well,
David Gwyn (03:18):
Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (03:18):
where they're getting in front of.
So much more eyes than a lot of,you know, traditionally
published books are.
David Gwyn (03:26):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (03:27):
being able to step in from this audio
side and, and say, Hey, youknow, this is, this is a spot
where we can help these indieauthors because.
Audio production is often verycost prohibitive.
David Gwyn (03:39):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (03:39):
a lot involved.
It's also very difficult to, youknow, kind of speaking of that
gatekeeping, you know, it's,it's hard for an author who's
just going solo to, you know,get into some of these retailers
to
David Gwyn (03:51):
Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (03:52):
out how to be part of deals and, and all
of that stuff.
That really does help.
And, and so to be able to like.
Step in and fill in that rolefor these already really
hardworking authors is reallyrewarding.
And like I said, I'm, I'mlearning a lot.
It's, it's a whole world outthere that I, I have always
like, dabbled in because Ipersonally love audio books, but
(04:13):
I, I knew very little about theproduction side.
I also, you know, I, I'm talkingto so many authors who have, you
know, dream cast of narrators,it kind of reminds me of, you
know, the, the, the wonder thatan author has when they, you
know, they, they have a visionin mind for a cover, right.
And it's kind of the same thing,like they wanna cast the voices
in their head.
David Gwyn (04:34):
Yep.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (04:34):
And so it's, it's really wonderful to
be on that journey with theauthor.
David Gwyn (04:39):
Yeah, I love that.
It, it's interesting for, forsome reason, I don't know why
necessarily, actually, I, Iprobably do know why.
So the, I've talked, I've beentalking to, to writers obviously
for the podcast and also forthe, the community that I run.
And it's come up a few timeswhere someone in the community
that I run has read the book,the author's book, or listened
(04:59):
to it, I should say, in audioformat and then.
Had the opportunity to ask thatauthor like, oh, did you get to
pick?
And it's just now as we'rehaving this conversation, I'm
realizing that that's come up afew times now in those
conversations.
And I think it is, it's one ofthose things, it's like now
writers who used to think abouttheir cover and casting the, the
movie versions of theircharacters, now they also get
(05:19):
that added bonus of potentiallycasting like an audio side as
well.
So talk a little bit about yourrole.
Like, what does it, what does itlook like?
So I'm guessing, you know,someone comes to you are, are
you seeking people out?
Are, are people submitting toyou?
What does it look like?
Chantelle Aimée Osman (05:34):
it's a little bit of both.
And
David Gwyn (05:35):
Okay.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (05:36):
I mean, it, it's unique from other
imprints in the sense that, youknow, like I said, we're dealing
with, with only, or mostlyhybrid and
David Gwyn (05:44):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (05:45):
We have some debuts as well.
But it, it's, you know, findingpeople in different places,
which is also really cool.
David Gwyn (05:52):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (05:52):
I think probably one of the first times
we talked, I was still at Agora.
David Gwyn (05:56):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (05:57):
books.
And, and one of the things thatI absolutely loved about that
position was, you know, we, wewere publishing mostly crime
fiction and horror fromunderrepresented or unique
cultural voices.
And, and so this was kind of athing where it was, it was
finding people that had not gonea traditional path.
(06:19):
And so it's a, it's a little bitsimilar to what we're doing now
in, in finding some of thesepeople because it's not
necessarily, you know, themajority of indie authors might
not have an agent or so yeah, weget, we get a bunch of agented
submissions like any otherimprint.
But then there's a really funkind of, you know, if you like
(06:39):
falling down a rabbit hole, thenthis is a job for you.
Because, you know, all of us onour team are.
Are constantly, you know, evenif we're on our own private,
like social media, we're goinglike, oh, does this person have
a book coming out?
Oh, what's this person talkingabout?
So it's, it's a really fun newdiscovery method as well.
So, so
David Gwyn (06:57):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (06:57):
of different places is the answer
to your question.
David Gwyn (07:00):
Yeah.
No, that's great.
I, I feel like and, and youkinda mentioned this early on,
moving to an audio format is, isso smart for a ton of reasons.
And, and the main one, you know,finding different voices and,
and finding readers where theyare, where they want to be, you
know, listening to books.
Yeah.
I, I think, I think that it'ssuch a smart.
A, a maybe a pivot, maybe notlike a full move, but like a
(07:21):
pivot for Simon Schuster to havea have a, a a an imprint like
this, I think is really smart.
So when you're, when you'rethinking about what you're
looking to acquire, are you, doyou think in genres, do you
think in voice?
Is it a little bit ofeverything?
Chantelle Aimée Osman (07:36):
It's a little bit of everything.
I mean, a good book is a goodbook and,
David Gwyn (07:39):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (07:40):
I refuse to let them slip through the
cracks if they
David Gwyn (07:43):
Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (07:43):
my desk.
And, and we do do print, we havepartnered with other imprints at
Simon and Schuster to put outprint for titles where it seems
right to do that.
So, you know, print is notnecessarily off the table.
If you're publishing with us,it's probably just gonna be a,
you know, joint, joint venture.
But I, I would say generallybroadly commercial fiction,
(08:04):
genre fiction is, is what mostpeople are listening to.
Things like romantic, and likedark academia and like those
areas are really, really popularin audio.
I'm also really excited becausefor the first time in.
A long time I'm able to dealwith nonfiction, which I
David Gwyn (08:25):
Oh fun.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (08:25):
kind of harder to find in the indie
publishing space.
But it's out there and they'rekind of my unicorns because, you
know, I, I want some of those.
I, I love nonfiction and woulddefinitely like to have more of
that on my list, but.
I, I'm, I'm basically, I, I lovethis position because I get to
play in as many genres as I wantto.
(08:47):
When
David Gwyn (08:47):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (08:48):
at Amazon, it was very difficult
for me to, to stay at LakeUnion, which was my primary
imprint, but I also acquired forThomas and Mercer.
David Gwyn (08:55):
Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (08:56):
I got some missions for 47 North.
I did some Amazon originalstories.
So I, I have a hard time Davidstaying in my lane.
So it, it gives me theopportunity of, hey, if it's
just something good you know, Ican
David Gwyn (09:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's so interesting.
So, so I'm, I'm, now, I thinkI'm getting the kind of scope
here.
And, and correct me where I goawry.
'cause I inevitably will, whenI'm kind of saying this back to
you, are you taking on, are youtaking on submissions for like
audio only rights?
So these are indie publisherswho published a book and now
wanna do audio with you?
(09:31):
Or are you taking on like fullsubmissions, doing the audio,
and potentially the paperback?
Or is it a mix?
Chantelle Aimée Osman (09:37):
it's a, it's a
David Gwyn (09:38):
Gotcha.
Okay.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (09:40):
all over the place which is what I like
about it.
And like I
David Gwyn (09:43):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (09:43):
new.
You know, the announcement forMaverick came in January.
Our first books, you know, ourfirst, like, we had a couple, a
handful before that, but our,our first, you know, real,
strong list of titles started asstrong is the wrong word.
It wasn't like the other oneswere weak, but like a
consistently scheduled liststarted being published in in
March,
David Gwyn (10:03):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (10:04):
when I also came on board.
So realized we're, you know, inJuly.
So we've only really been aroundfor a few months and we're
still, you know, I always say,that we're like velociraptors
testing the fences in like areally positive, smiling
velociraptor kind of way.
Because we're just reallyexcited to keep like pushing the
(10:25):
barriers, breaking them down,figuring out, you know, what new
things we can do.
I.
David Gwyn (10:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's really cool.
And, and so where do you see,where do you see, I mean, you've
got boots on the ground here interms of audio.
Where do you see audio going inthe future?
Do you see it continuing toexpand?
I.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (10:43):
Oh, I think so.
I mean I know I'm not the firstperson to make this analogy but
I don't know who was so, I can'tgive credit.
I, I feel like the audio marketthat we're in right now reminds
me in a lot of ways when eBookskind of started, like
David Gwyn (10:58):
Oh yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (10:59):
up.
Like not when they first cameout, but like when it started to
become the, oh yeah, this isreally the new way we're
reading.
David Gwyn (11:06):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (11:07):
I feel like audio books are kind of at
that, at that point as well,where, you know, before, and I
mean, I'm sure I'm dating myselfhere, but you know, I, I've
always listened to audio books.
Like I would actually, there wasa store near me when I was, I
think like in high school andthey, it was like a video store,
(11:27):
but it was for audio cassette.
And it was rental.
You could go in and rent.
And I did that all the time, orelse you'd be getting it from
the library.
And I think just like those,those, you know, kind of like
going and renting an audiobookfrom a library wasn't a thing
that a lot of people did.
And, and it's a very different.
(11:48):
today.
I mean, I think everybody'slistening to them in one way,
shape, or
David Gwyn (11:54):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (11:54):
I just really love how it makes so much
more accessible.
For so
David Gwyn (12:00):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (12:02):
so I think that's wonderful too.
And, and there's just so manypositives to it.
And, and I will gladly plant myflag flag in the listening to an
audio book counts as reading
David Gwyn (12:12):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (12:13):
Because I, I think it's great and just,
you know, there are so manyvenues to find audio books.
I mean, I know that we all, youknow, have our audible accounts,
but you know, there's Spotify,there's, there's, you know, my,
my library,
David Gwyn (12:27):
Hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (12:27):
System has an audiobook like download
app.
David Gwyn (12:31):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (12:32):
So they're, they're just kind of
everywhere and it's, it's,they're easy to find.
And it's great to be able to,you know, actually ha if you
don't have the time and youknow, God knows if you have a
bunch of kids or
David Gwyn (12:46):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (12:47):
like you can't spend that time reading,
but you kinda can now.
David Gwyn (12:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And no, that, that's, that,that's so true.
And I, I had a huge revelationwhen I found out that my library
has one of those apps as well,where you can download eBooks
or, or audiobooks if you're alibrary member.
It was like a, a revelation for,for me.
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (13:07):
Like, you know, I encourage everyone to
use their libraries and check itout because, you know,
especially in, in nowadays, youknow, you can, you can.
Rent, or, well not really rent,just borrow eBooks and audio
from your library.
David Gwyn (13:22):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (13:22):
you know, it doesn't necessarily have to
be a huge financial commitment
David Gwyn (13:26):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
I'm, I'm curious what trends, ifany, that you're seeing in the
kinds of books or authors thatdo well in audio format, whether
that's like genre type ofstorytelling, like are there any
trends where you're like, I.
Maybe you're not looking for it,but you're realizing kind of
retroactively, oh wow, this bookis doing really well in audio
(13:46):
format and that makes sensebecause of X, Y, and Z.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (14:37):
That's a, that's a hard question because
I, first of all, I don't thinkanything really ever goes out of
style.
David Gwyn (14:42):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (14:43):
you know that I love the horror genre
and, but that's something where,you know, it was really super
popular in the eighties andnineties and then it became
like.
one read horror, no one wasacquiring horror, you know?
But guess what?
It always was there.
Like, it just wasn't in thespotlight, but it was always
there.
And then a few years ago, peoplewere like, guess what?
(15:05):
This is becoming popular again.
Like it didn't go anywhere.
Same thing with, you know, a lotof these, I'll call them cozier
fantasy like legends and lattes,right?
David Gwyn (15:16):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (15:17):
That was, and it's a great book, don't get
me wrong.
Highly recommend all of hisseries, but stuff has been
around that wasn't, you know,particularly groundbreaking.
It's been.
Always in the fantasy genre, butyou know, there are just kind of
these ebbs and flows that go youknow, and, and you can trace,
(15:39):
too much of a nerd.
You shouldn't have asked me thisquestion, but like, you could,
you, you can trace certaingenres to political and economic
climates.
Zombies always become popular intimes of economic downturn or
uncertainty.
go back to like when the WalkingDead.
Was Resurging, you know, likethat first started.
David Gwyn (16:00):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (16:00):
and look at that, the, the climate that
we were in then we're getting alittle bit more zombies coming
back right now.
David Gwyn (16:07):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (16:07):
Of course that completely went away for,
you know, lockdown.
David Gwyn (16:12):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osm (16:13):
surrounding times because we didn't want
particularly likepost-apocalyptic fiction kind of
dropped off.
Wonder why that was so, so, youknow, kind of, I would say
probably since 2020 andcontinuing now and even
increasing, I'm seeing a lot oflike very escapist.
David Gwyn (16:33):
Yeah.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (16:34):
Work is really popular.
Like going back to, like I said,the romantic or the cozy fantasy
or you know, that sort of thing.
I, I think I think people arereally liking that.
And, and using the reading orlistening to escape, not
necessarily as much as, youknow.
I, I don't know, for example,historical fiction, which I
(16:57):
still think is a very stronggenre, but I've seen a shift in
the last few years of what typesof historical fiction are
working.
You know, for a while it wasthis very like.
Not that historical fictionshould be inaccurate, but it was
this like a highly accurateoften kind of depressing history
(17:17):
that was being told.
And, and that was what waspopular.
And those stories are kind ofnot working right now in favor
of.
know, lighter, historical, youknow,
David Gwyn (17:29):
Hm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (17:29):
romances or you know, I always like to
use the, like, you know, womanwho got divorced and, and got a
cottage you know, suddenlyinherited a cottage in
David Gwyn (17:40):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (17:41):
From an aunt she'd never heard of.
And so she goes there and then.
Discovers her diary or a bunchof letters.
And so we have like a dual POVwith this kind of like escapist
story that, that takes two womenon a journey.
Those kind of things are, aredefinitely, you know, more
popular, I think.
(18:01):
And
David Gwyn (18:02):
Mm-hmm.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (18:02):
there are exceptions to everything and
David Gwyn (18:04):
Of course.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (18:05):
I definitely don't know all of the
things, but yeah, I thinkgenerally like the more upbeat
escapist.
Stuff is working a lot betterright now.
David Gwyn (18:15):
You've now had a lot of editing experience.
how Has your experience changedthe way you approach editing a
project, if at all?
Chantelle Aimée Osman (18:25):
That's a really good question and one
that I probably don't have theanswer to.
One of my.
Favorite things to do is eitherteach teach writing and editing,
or, you know, actually get myhands dirty on a manuscript.
So yes, I absolutely I lovetaking on developmental editing
work.
You know, it's, it's, I find itvery rewarding to kind of like
(18:45):
be in the trenches with the,with the words you know, in
addition to the industryoverall.
So, you know, always, alwaysopen to taking more on.
I think one of the reasons thatI enjoy being an editor so much
I.
Is because I'm constantlylearning and constantly being
surprised whether or not it'slike I, I have a ton of random
(19:07):
facts at my disposal from justsearching a thing in continuity
in a book that I'm editing, youknow?
When were zippers invented, youknow, could, could they possibly
have had one at this time?
So I, I love that and love, youknow, falling down, like I said
before, like all of those littlerabbit holes that you can find
out, fall down.
(19:28):
So I, I really love the learningprocess.
I'm always learning from everymanuscript that I read but, but
also just I love being surprisedby great writing.
So I think that's kind of why Icontinue to be in love with what
I do because I'm alwaysdiscovering something and a new
(19:48):
voice and, and and I think I, ifI had a philosophy on editing,
which you're kind of likeforcing me to come up with one.
Well, I, I, I think that if Ihad one, it is that.
The author knows how to telltheir story.
I think the most importantelement to a story is voice.
You know, I can always fixpacing or, you know, if there's
(20:12):
a plot hole, like I'm not gonnasay who cares.
But that's, these are all thingsthat are fixable.
But there's one thing that Icannot edit into a manuscript,
and it's the author's passionand the author's voice in
telling that story.
And so it's really important tome when I edit to make, make
sure that that is, you know,sacrosanct and, and.
(20:33):
I am, I am showing them the pathto get their words or their,
their end goal across as, ascleanly and distinctly as
possible.
But I want them to do it theirway and, and not mine.
That's not my job.
David Gwyn (20:49):
Yeah.
I, I love that.
So I think I already know theanswer to this next question,
but I'm gonna ask anyway'causeI, I, I love hearing your
thoughts on this.
So if, if you have a, a writerwho's listening to this podcast
listening to, to you talk and,and realizes what I'm sure
they're realizing, which is I.
You know a lot about theindustry.
You know, you're a talentededitor.
You, you understand what's goingon and where things are headed,
you know, a, a great potentialfit for, as an, as an editor,
(21:12):
whether developmental or to, topitch you at, at Maverick what
advice would you give thatwriter who's sitting there
thinking about okay, I, I wantto be, I wanna get my manuscript
as ready as possible beforegoing to Chantelle, or before
going to an agent or apublisher, whoever it is.
What are some things thatwhether they're common things
that you see on your end or juststuff that they should be really
(21:33):
thinking about before sendingtheir book out?
Chantelle Aimée Osman (21:36):
Well, two things.
First of all, you know, again,we do accept UN agented
submissions and all of ourinformation is available on the
Simon Maverick website.
So, you know, please feel freeif you have something that you
think would fit for us, thatwould be great.
I.
I'm also also searchable online.
I know David's gonna have all ofmy info and my various websites,
(21:57):
so, you know, never hesitate toreach out even with just a
question.
I, as you might be able to telllistener, I love answering them.
So, so it would be my pleasure Ithink the important things are.
Make the book the best book itcan be, but you at some point
have to walk away from it andrely on other people, whether
(22:18):
it's a, you know, an agent or adevelopmental editor or you
know, an editor to publishinghouse to bring out the best.
In that book.
But I unfortunately know far toomany people who have a book, you
know, and they're stillpolishing chapter one, 10 years
in.
Right.
And chapter one looks nothinglike what they dreamt of when
(22:39):
they first wrote the book 10years ago.
So, so, you know, you can thinktoo much and do too little in
that sense.
So I, I think, you know, gettingit to a place that you're at
least.
Somewhat confident you know,making sure it's formatted
appropriately.
All of that fun stuff that'sreally boring.
You know, but, but then, youknow, seek advice from other
(23:01):
people, you know, reach out tothat agent, reach out, you know,
don't.
Part of I think being a writeris understanding that there's
always something else you couldhave done, you know, at any part
in the process, right?
Like, you know, it, it's, it'sprobably not the comma that you
must, that caused an agent tosay no.
It just wasn't the book of theirheart.
(23:23):
Like, and the thing is that, andI know I've talked to you about
this before, David, but I, I cannever emphasize this too much
like a no in this industry isnot a rejection.
It's just a, no, this is notright for me.
And, and the best part of beingin publishing, whether you're an
indie author or publishedtraditionally, or working as an
(23:44):
editor, whatever it is, is youare creating a great team.
I.
And, and you want all the peopleon your team to be like gung-ho
over the moon, super excitedabout your book, and so what
you're getting with that no, isnot really a, this is bad.
(24:04):
I don't like it.
It's just this isn't.
That cheerleader for you, andthat's helping you weed it out
until you find the person thatis, you know, and then that
person, you know, might be youragent, might be your editor, but
all of these people are going tobe massive cheerleaders for you.
And, and the no is just a, youknow, it's, it's just like you,
(24:27):
if you go to a bookstore oryou're browsing online or
however you.
Buy your books or read yourbooks.
You know, it's not like if yougo to a shelf and you're like,
I'm gonna buy a book today.
And you pick up one and you readthe back and it's not right for
you.
Right.
Sometimes it might just not beright for you that day, but
you're certainly not likethrowing it on the floor and
(24:48):
going, this is trash and walkingaway.
Right.
And I think that so many newwriters, or writers who are
working to build their career.
Take every one of those likebooks that are like put, we put
back on the shelf while we'rebrowsing that, that's a massive
rejection.
Instead of really just a quietlike, oh no, this, you know,
this isn't right for me today.
(25:10):
'Cause you're looking for thatone person who's gonna pick that
book up and take it home.
David Gwyn (25:14):
Yeah.
No, I think that's spot on.
And I, I love that as, as aplace to kind of wrap up here
for people to think about asthey go about their day and, and
just to remember that this, thisindustry, that that's what this
industry is.
And it's, it's, it's.
Quiet passes from the beginningto the end.
You know, whether it's agentsall the way down to readers,
when your book's on thebookshelf, it's, it's just
you're just trying to find a, asection of people who champion
(25:39):
your book.
You don't need to be foreveryone.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (25:41):
Well, and honestly, it's, it's like
friendship or like dating.
Pick whatever analogy you want,you know, but you don't wanna be
friends with every single personthat you've ever met in your
life, right?
You know, you, you wanna choosethose really great ones to be
your core friend group, andthat's kind of what you're doing
here.
Like, you gotta go through theother stuff to get to the really
(26:02):
great ones.
And so yeah, a rejection isreally just a step closer to
your goal.
David Gwyn (26:08):
No, I love that.
And, and what a great place to,to wrap up.
So Chantel, I'll link to, yourwebsite in the description, this
as always, is such a joy to talkwith you.
Thank you so much for taking thetime.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (26:19):
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
I hope to talk to you againsoon.
David Gwyn (26:23):
Yeah, of course.
And, and if you're, you're stilllistening, you're still hanging
out with us go down there, checkout Chantelle's stuff.
You won't be disappointedbecause like I mentioned, you
know, we've talked kind ofthroughout your career.
I, I hadn't, I hadn't realized Ihadn't really put together that
we've been hanging out throughall the little stops along the
way,
Chantelle Aimée Osman (26:37):
We really have.
Which is why I realized I hadn'ttalked to you for a while.
David Gwyn (26:42):
I know.
I know.
So it's great as always.
So much fun.
So if you're, if you'relistening to this, go down,
check it out.
You'll, you'll love the stuffthat she puts out.
So Chantelle, thanks again.
Chantelle Aimée Osman (26:50):
Thank you so much.
I.
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