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May 15, 2025 38 mins

What if the life you’re meant to live doesn’t show up until after you’ve already lived a few others?

Dr. Shafer, a former physician turned transformational coach, author, and speaker - is living proof that it’s never too late to come home to yourself.

After decades of walking the high-achiever path (you know the one...degrees, credentials, perfectionism on overdrive), Dr, Shafer hit a turning point. And instead of pushing through, she got curious. 

What unfolded next was a journey of shedding, surrendering, and stepping into her truest work: helping others break free from limiting beliefs and step into possibility.

Now in midlife, Dr. Shafer is using her voice, her story, and her heart to help others wake up to what’s actually possible - and it’s not about hustling harder. It’s about becoming who you were always meant to be.

In this deeply honest and soulful conversation, we talk about:

✨ Why transformation doesn’t always look like a big bang...but more like a quiet unfolding
 ✨ How to begin again when your identity feels tied to your achievements
 ✨ Letting go of who the world told you to be so you can finally feel free
✨ Her brand new children’s book (yes!) and what it taught her about healing and inner work

Dr. Shafer’s story is like a soft exhale and a spark all in one.

If you’ve been feeling stuck in your title, your role, or your “shoulds,” this episode is a beautiful reminder that your second act doesn’t have to be a compromise...it can be the most true thing you’ve ever done.

💫 Connect with Dr. Shafer:

  • Instagram: @talks_with_dr_shafer
  • Listen to her podcast: Talks with Dr. Schafer
  • Learn more at: drshaferstedronova.com

Thank you for spending time with me today on the Thrive After 45™ podcast! If this episode spoke to you, be sure to hit that follow button so you never miss one.

And if you loved it, I’d be so grateful if you left a review - it helps more amazing women like you find this show!

Your journey doesn’t stop here - let’s keep the conversation going! Connect with me at denisedrinkwalter.com, and follow @thethriveafter45podcast for daily insp, tips, and support.

Remember, midlife isn’t the end - it’s just the beginning of a new, exciting chapter! Keep thriving, keep shining, and I’ll see you next time!

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to ThriveAfter 45, the podcast where we
redefine the significance of youfor you by you because of you.
I'm Denise, drink Walter, amidlife renewal coach here to
help women embrace their power,purpose, and potential.
This show is your space toexplore what's possible.

(00:21):
When you prioritize you throughinspiring conversations, expert
insights, and real stories,we'll uncover how to navigate
transitions, rediscover joythrive inside and out.
It's time to let go of guilt andfully embrace the life waiting
for you.
This is the Thrive After 45podcast, and it is your time to

(00:45):
thrive for you.
By you because of you.
It is such an honor and aprivilege to welcome Dr.
Schafer Rin to our show today.
Dr.
Schafer is a multi-passionatepowerhouse.
A physician turnstransformational coach
podcaster, speaker.

(01:06):
Bestselling author who brings aunique and refreshing voice to
the world of growth and mindsetwith a medical degree earned in
2011 and a life coaching journeythat began in 2024.
Dr.
Schaeffer has dedicated herselfto helping others rise above

(01:28):
limiting beliefs and embrace alife of intentional.
Transformation.
She is the voice behind theInspiring podcast talks with Dr.
Schaeffer and the author of twothought provoking books,
including InternationalBestseller Cracking the Rich
Code Volume 16, and Her upcomingrelease, which we're gonna chat

(01:52):
about, I hope, the Boy and hisbrightly colored blocks, which
is, has.
Actually just launched right May6th in 2025.
Her message is clear andconsistent across her platforms,
whether she's on YouTube,TikTok, Spotify, or Instagram.
She meets people where they are.

(02:14):
Guides them through withcompassion and clarity toward
personal freedom and purpose.
Through her content coaching andrecently launched Publishing
House, Dr.
Schaeffer supports bothindividuals and businesses in
challenging their mindsetblocks, unlocking potential, and

(02:34):
stepping into a version ofthemselves they maybe didn't
even believe was.
Possible.
She has roots in music and Decaand Dec.
Decades long dedication towriting and editing.
Add a creative dimension to herwork that's both powerful and

(02:54):
deeply personal.
Dr.
Schaefer, we are absolutelythrilled to have you here with
us today.
Welcome to Thrive after 45.
Denise, thank you so much forhaving me.
It's such a pleasure to be hereand to be in this space where
you are creating an environmentthat encourages us to thrive

(03:17):
because as as obvious as itsounds.
But it's what we should do if wereally take stock of our lives
and how we have over time, setthem up.
We may find, I think many of usfind that we and those around us
have constructed a life thatdoesn't necessarily allow us to
thrive as we really should be.

(03:38):
I love what you're sayingbecause I, I noticed this too,
and I, and what I see, and letme correct me if I'm wrong or
add to this piece, but whathappens is we don't even
understand what Thrive reallymeans because we haven't
probably experienced what, or ifwe have, it's in little snippets

(04:00):
and then it dies.
Right?
Yeah.
I love what you said about.
In your introduction about thatyou should be thriving, right?
Like you should be thriving and.
Do it for you because of you.
And I think that's reallyimportant because when we talk
about development, sometimesit's more palatable to discuss

(04:24):
the, the benefits of personaldevelopment on the people you
love, on your children, on yourspouse, your partner at work,
the people that you servethrough your work.
And that can be a goodicebreaker.
For helping people to start totake those steps and start to,
instead of leaning out and doingeverything for everyone, start
to care for yourself.

(04:46):
Understand yourself, developmentyourself, and often.
The first bite of it, the firsttaste we have of that is by, oh,
I'm gonna get better for thepeople I love because we've been
doing that our whole lives.
We've been doing everything foreveryone else.
So I really love how intentionalyou are about saying you are
doing this for you because ofyou.

(05:06):
Exactly.
And, and the other piece that Ithink is very interesting is
that nobody else can do it foryou.
Because you're the only one whohas the capacity to do it for
you, by you because of you.
So when you take that time andwhatever that needs to be for
you, I know a lot of my clientsfeel, oh, isn't that selfish?

(05:29):
Isn't that, you know, given, andthat's where the, where we start
to do the dis disruption.
Of the belief and you, I knowyou do all kinds of great work
around limiting beliefs andsometimes we don't even realize
that we have a belief systemthat is limiting us.
How do you help people evenuncover.

(05:51):
Limiting beliefs per se.
Hmm.
Well I was just leaning intowhat you were saying, and it's
really fun when coaches talk toone another because you're like,
Ooh.
Yeah.
Like what tools, you know, whatis your, what is your process?
You know, because it's soenriching and interesting to
learn how we all are trying toapproach this because coaching

(06:12):
is a different skillset than.
Anything you've ever done beforein your life.
Most people, when you reallylearn what it is to be a coach,
think, wow, that's fascinating.
It's just listening.
I.
And asking curious questions andnot having an agenda.
Well, how hard is that?

(06:32):
That's really hard.
It's really hard because we areall so trained to do all of
those things and to have theseconversations that are kind of
like a game of, of tennis.
And so we've, we've hit thisball back and forth.
We had this conversation.
Lots of words were said, theywere spoken, but we walk away

(06:54):
and.
That's that, right?
I mean, how many great memoriesdid you ever form?
You may enjoy tennis, you mayenjoy what it brings to you
physically, but during that backand forth, you're not making
those memories that you're gonnaremember in the final moments of
your life and say, gosh, I'm soglad I had that.
But when you sat with a friendor a colleague and you stopped

(07:18):
talking and you got out of yourown head of thinking, how can I
make this better for thisperson?
You sat with them, you heardthem, and you just went along
with them on this journey,rather than trying to decide
where do they need to go on thejourney.
And through that, we've been sotrained to think that's a
failure.

(07:38):
'cause we didn't solve theproblem for them.
But what we did was empower themthrough our presence and as we,
you know, learn things likecoaching, as we learn things
about curious questions, and werecognize no asking someone the
curious question and reallyhearing the answer and then

(07:59):
gently challenging, you know?
Okay, so why, why do you thinkyou need to do that for that
person?
Did the person, did they ask youto do that?
Mm-hmm.
You know, how many times hassomeone asked us that question?
You know, because we might avoidthat sort of question.
'cause that might be interpretedas an in insult or as shaming.

(08:22):
Mm-hmm.
But it's such a great questionto ask the people pleaser, the
over giver, the overstretch, ordid they ask you to do that?
Mm-hmm.
And then to say, okay, theydidn't, and then this thing
happened.
This, you know, inevitably badthing happened.
'cause you did something forsomeone that they didn't ask
for, they didn't want.

(08:43):
Okay, let's get out of theconsequences of that for them.
Why do you think you feltcompelled to do that?
Mm-hmm.
And getting down to the heart ofthe matter, and it's just, it's
so beautiful and I know I'vegotten down into a rabbit hole
of coaching, but it's okay.
It's so inspiring to haveconversations with people like
you because.

(09:05):
These are the moments and theconnections when we learn how to
communicate in this verydifferent way, that it's not
like the tennis game that we hadwe walked away from, and that
was that.
These are how we make reallygenuine, meaningful connections
with people and learn about themand create stories that we're so

(09:25):
proud to tell about our ownlives.
I love that, bringing yourselfinto the conversation through a
connection, not through, um, thelens of helping them solve.
An a problem that you don't evenknow really, or understand the
depth of what they're goingthrough.

(09:47):
So what's coming up for me asyou're sharing your, your
thoughts and, and brilliance ofcourse, is the, is the power and
act of listening.
And really grasping what thatis.
When I was, um, teaching manyyears ago when I was a behavior

(10:08):
resource teacher, the power ofnot only active listening, but
observation.
I couldn't ever explain theimportance of observing, so now
I'm, I'm even lookingdifferently at the way that I
have conversations and the waythat I observe others in

(10:31):
conversations.
So there's so many moving parts,and when we allow ourselves
that.
Openness, that ability to justbe present in the energy and the
conversation.
Everything can change for both,all parties, however many people
are involved in theconversation.
Do you find that Absolutely.

(10:53):
Absolutely.
Bring yourself into theconversation and you know, you
talked about tools, you hintedat tools, you know, how do you
do that?
How do you start that withpeople?
And I think one interestingthing to do, if you find that
you're a people pleaser andyou're a space filler, so you
walk into a room, let's say it'sa party, um, and let's say
you've got kids in school, andso it's, it's people you don't

(11:15):
really know that well.
Sure, right.
And you're hopeful to makeconnections with them, to bond,
maybe to have someone to go tocoffee with on Saturday morning
to connect with over the sharedexperience of life and having
teenagers, et cetera.
Right.
So you walk into the party and.
If you're that people pleasingperson who's trying to basically

(11:37):
set out these, almost likefishing lines, trying to get
someone to bite on them.
Yeah.
And you're setting all thesehooks of, okay, I'm gonna, okay,
the weather's too bland, so Iknow that this is popular in my
area.
I'm gonna do that.
Or I know that this is popularwith them.
I'm gonna do that.
And you're kind of setting thestage for having conversations
that you may not even.

(11:58):
Care about.
So now you've started theconversation and you don't know
where to go with it.
There's the awkward silence.
Well.
Nice, nice meeting you, and youwalk away and you're wondering,
why am I not making friends?
Why is it so hard at this stageof my life to make friends?
And a big part of that isstarting to reset the way we try
to connect with others, even ina very casual way.

(12:20):
Mm-hmm.
To instead of trying to figureout what everyone else wants
from us to show up as ourauthentic selves.
As you said, to be veryintentional and an observer and
a good listener, and thendecide, huh, is this someone,
and this is something I reallywork with my children on, is

(12:41):
this someone that I would liketo spend more time with?
Right?
Because that is really where themagic happens, is when you meet
someone that.
You want to spend more timewith, and that's mutual.
They have this mutualexperience, and it's not that
you have formed.

(13:03):
Some sort of transientconversation, right?
What, what you hoped was a bondover something that doesn't
really matter to you, that's notgonna be a relationship.
And then you'll have investedsome time, which all of us have
very little of.
Mm-hmm.
And you'll go to coffee andyou'll go home and you'll just
kind of think, what, what am Idoing with this?
I'm not forming the connections.

(13:23):
It just doesn't seem to work.
Why is it happening?
And so.
When we feel that dissonance inour lives, instead of looking
outward and blaming, oh, I justcan't connect with this person,
or that, or this, um, or maybewe're from a different social
stratosphere, whatever you wannatell yourself, it's not working.
I think it can be really helpfulto look inward and think, who am

(13:44):
I showing up as And mm-hmm.
Is it me?
Because if I'm showing up assomeone else, of course I'm not
making those deep, authenticconnections with people that I
really want to make.
Is it helpful for people to lookat what you're saying and go,

(14:04):
okay, so what friendships do Ihave in my life right now that I
truly, truly value to help themreflect back what it is that
makes that so valuable and howthey can reframe themselves in
new environments to be moreauthentic.
At the end of the day.

(14:25):
Yeah, it, it Is there somethingyou said earlier that I don't
know about how you are withcoaching and with conversations
like this, but for me, I'll havea phrase pop up or a
visualization or color,something that really resonates
with me.
And it may just be the way mybrain works, but something you
said earlier really made methink about how we remember how

(14:48):
someone.
Makes us feel.
Mm-hmm.
We don't remember what they say.
Right.
And something you said earlierreally resonated with that quote
for me.
And so I think a great place tostart to really just kind of get
rid of the, oh, well I have thisconnection because our kids do
this together.
I have this connection becauseyou know, we did this, whatever.

(15:10):
And to really get down to theheart of the matter of.
I have X amount of time andenergy.
Who in my life reenergizes merather than depletes me Because
maybe I'm at, I'm at a phase inmy life where I've literally
nothing left to give and you andI were talking before we came on
air, like I'm kind of in a placein my life where it's.
I have very limited resources,and so if someone's in my orbit,

(15:34):
it, it really needs to besomething that energizes me.
And I think when you take stockof not only your friendships,
but what you're using yourenergy on in general, which is,
it could be anything from as bigas, do I want this big house?
Yeah.
Does this big house bring me joyand energize me?
Or are there, is there a laundrylist of things that.

(15:56):
Drive me crazy about the factthat I have this big house.
It can be from friendships tothe size of your home where you
live, your job.
All of these are opportunitiesto kind of check your batteries
and find out like, do I need tojust change the batteries, go
about this differently, or do Ineed to actually update.
New.

(16:16):
An update of my iOS.
Right.
New software.
Right?
Because the old system isdepleting me and I need a new
system.
And everything you're talkingabout and sharing, I'm smiling
from inside out because I'm, youare talking about.
Looking at everything throughthe lens of for you, by you,

(16:39):
because of you.
And when we do this work, andI'm not even call, I don't like
to call it work because I liketo call it awareness and growth.
Um, because when, as soon as theW words put with it, people are
like, oh, but I can't do that'cause I don't have a the time,
blah, blah, blah.
Yeah.
If we reframe and start to do itfrom our center.

(17:04):
I can tell you, you know, allyour clients, all the people
that you touch with your work,know that when you start doing
this work for you, by youbecause of you, your what I call
sphere of influence will changearound you without you having to
lift a finger and make it happenbecause your energy speaks and

(17:27):
it changes everything.
Hmm.
It does.
And you know, one thing I, Inotice that I don't talk about
often, but I've done a shorttalk on my podcast.
I tend to do guest episodes andthen I do short talks where we
talk about mindset things andalso from a neuroscience
perspective.

(17:48):
The science behind that.
Right.
And the importance of changingour habits and changing our
beliefs because those areactually wirings in us.
Mm-hmm.
You know, this isn't Woohoostuff.
Yeah.
This is really real.
It's our neuroscience, it'stracks in our brain that lead us
to follow different behaviorsand habits.

(18:09):
That if we don't disrupt them,and you use that term earlier,
you have to disrupt.
And that's where I think whenyou use the term work.
It is work and it's work in thesense of like a workout, but for
your life, not just for yourmuscles, right?
Workouts, when you start them,they are painful.

(18:30):
I can remember I had a period oftime where I wasn't exercising
much and I had a C-section withmy, my last child.
So, you know, things were cut,muscles hurt, my body didn't
bend the same way.
It didn't feel good.
Um, and then when I.
Exercised really intentionallyagain.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I got my body to a place ofstrength.
I mean, there were times wherethat really hurt, especially,

(18:51):
you know, around the side of myincision.
Ouch.
It was really uncomfortable.
But once I got past thatbreaking to build.
Point of working out.
Mm-hmm.
Then I got to a place ofstrength and I, I will never
forget.
It's such a silly example, butit is the moment and it's funny
'cause these are the littlemoments in our lives that we are

(19:12):
assured that we're on the rightpath.
It's the little things.
It's not the big stuff, it's thelittle things.
I was cleaning my bathtub and wehave this really big, kind of
unusually large, strange, uh,rectangular bathtub.
And to clean it, you have tokind of like.
Act like you're Spider Woman abit.
Yeah.

(19:32):
And it was always a bituncomfortable and strange, and
I'm Spider Woman womanning overit.
And I felt great, and I hadgreat balance, and I felt strong
and I could bend and move inways that I couldn't before.
And I thought, huh.
This is what it's all for.
It's not to look better.

(19:52):
Yeah.
It's not to lose weight.
It's not for clothes to fitdifferently.
It's so that when I am living mylife, my function is so much
better and more comfortable, andI have this feeling of like,
wow, I can do things I couldn'tdo before.
And it's the same with ourmindset.
It's, it's painful at first.
Mm-hmm.
To make those disruptions.

(20:14):
But once you get through thatmessy middle of everything being
hard and new, and you'repracticing and it's awkward, and
maybe you feel like I haven'tdone something new since I was
in college or since I was ingrade school.
Once you get through that pointand you're really living your
beliefs and living authenticallyand in alignment with who you
want to be, the feeling of.
Strength and accomplishment andjust, wow, if I can do that, if

(20:39):
I can stop living that way andstart living my life this way,
what can I do?
It's so exciting and it's worthall of the work because it it is
work.
It's worth the investment inyou.
Right, right.
I love that.
The investment in you.
Because you are worthy of thatinvestment.
You mentioned earlier all thethings we do for our children

(21:00):
and our families and you know,there's never a second thought.
If your child needs support forwhatever purpose, you're on it,
you will drive them.
You will do without a secondthought.
And my goal is to help womenworldwide have that same
response that they would havefor their children.

(21:21):
Right.
For themselves.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
Because you can't be there foryour children if you're
abandoning yourself.
And in that moment you may feel,and I've, I've had a client
who's very self abandoning andit took years, years of work.
Mm-hmm.
Because there was such a deeplyentrenched belief that pouring.

(21:45):
A hundred percent out of theircup and giving the cup away to
their children was love.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it took so much time forthis individual to.
Have him to understand that hewas modeling self abandonment.
Yeah.
And that is so important to tryto flip that perspective.

(22:08):
And for many of us that comesfrom, we were trained in early
life to be very self abandoning,to show our worthiness and to
earn our right to exist in ourfamily system, for example.
Right.
Or in our work system, dependingupon what someone's uh,
circumstances were, but that'snot a relationship, right.

(22:30):
You're a tool, if that's yourrole in a, in a relationship.
I'm using air quotes forlisteners.
Sure, sure.
You're just a tool that's not anactual relationship.
And so when you model that foryour children, that the closest
people to you are tools for you,and they are expected to give up
everything that can go one oftwo ways.

(22:51):
Mm-hmm.
They can become like you.
Yeah, and they can be peoplepleasers and overs shares over
extenders and give up everythingthey have, which we don't want
for our kids or.
They can learn to expect thatthis is how people treat me.
They give me everything and theyexpect nothing in return.
And I have no responsibilitiesin our relationship and neither

(23:13):
one of those are what we wantfor our children.
Absolutely.
And what you're saying, I thinkthis is a golden nugget.
How are you modeling because.
You are being watched whetheryou believe it or not.
And so what is it that you wantto model?

(23:33):
Do you want to model, give toexhaustion, or do you want to
model, give back to myself sothat I am as equal as everyone
else in my sphere of influence?
Yeah.
Tell me, tell me, we've gottadive into your book.
I'm sitting here, we're lookingat the beautiful colors.

(23:53):
I'm this, I know it ties intothe, some of the conversations
we've been having.
Tell us about your, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
I'm holding it up for listeners.
If you aren't seeing the, thevisual of the audio visual
aspect.
So I am so proud of this book.
It's really a passion projectfor our family, and what it does

(24:14):
is it goes through the day of alittle boy who has something
that's called pathologicaldemand avoidance.
So you know, when we look atthings like PDA or pathological
demand avoidance, so that's abehavioral profile.
It's not a diagnosis.
Mm-hmm.
It is not unusually seen inchildren who have autism.
So children who have.

(24:35):
A formal diagnosis, but itdoesn't have to be seen in
children with autism and we seeit.
People who are on social media.
You're probably seeing a lotabout PDA because it's coming a
lot on your for you page,talking about even adults that
have this, this pushback that'soutsized when they feel a demand

(24:56):
or an expectation on them, and.
This can manifest as somethingthat's relatively small.
So for example, looking atchildren like refusing to eat
dinner, right?
Or to sit at the table.
I can tell you my son only nowwill actually sit and not all
the time at the table.
Mm-hmm.
But for years he needed to standon his chair because that

(25:21):
expectation to sit was.
Was really stressful.
Yeah.
And we as parents or caregivers,you can force that child to sit,
but that's not really connectingand that's not really
understanding the why behind whyis this so important and we

(25:44):
don't understand it.
Right.
It doesn't necessarily makesense to me if I don't have this
behavioral profile.
Right.
But if we take a step back andconnect with this child and try
to understand how they feel inthis moment.
If that allows them to getthrough dinner, because
otherwise having to sit at acertain time with a certain type

(26:08):
of food, with certain peoplethat maybe they'd rather not sit
with, maybe they're mad atsister or whatever it is, you
know?
Right.
There's so many demands on themin this mor in this moment, and
they're choosing something theyhave control over.
Hmm.
And so what this book is aboutis trying to normalize or

(26:28):
destigmatize the perspective ofa child who has this behavioral
profile, right?
This little boy, as the titlesays, it's called The Boy in His
Brightly Colored Blocks.
Now, this little boy loves hisbrightly colored blocks and he
dislikes anything that takes himaway from them, right?

(26:51):
And so.
As we know in an average day,especially once we get to
preschool age, if we have otherpeople in the home, if we have
other siblings, we have dogs.
Like we have to just forourselves, we have to eat, we
have to bathe, we have to putclothes on at least before we
leave the house.

(27:11):
You know, at least a certainnumber of clothing that can be,
like, that can be stretched alittle bit, but you know, we've
gotta wear certain things,right?
Yeah.
Um, gotta wear shoes.
Um, we've got to eat and then.
Oh, maybe we have to get sisterfrom school.
Maybe we have to take the dogsout.
And what can happen is a lot ofchildren who have PDA, they also
may have autism.
They also may have a lot ofspecial interests.

(27:32):
And so there can be one thingthat they really hyperfocused on
and that can either be a reallyfrustrating thing for a family.
You know, you can say, oh,you're this age.
I really wish when I was thatage, I really liked.
Right.
Playing outside.
I like playing with sticks andrunning around or playing this
fantasy game and all you want todo is play with your blocks or

(27:56):
you can try to understand whatthis connection means for the
child and you can try to use itto help them navigate the other
challenges in their day.
They have control over this toy.
Yeah.
They have control over what theydo with this toy.
Mm-hmm.
And then when we have inevitablemoments throughout the day where
they don't have control, how canwe use.

(28:20):
And model how important it isfor them to have this thing that
they do have control over.
Mm-hmm.
How can we use that to model howwe empower them throughout their
day to have less dysregulation?
Because when they feel a demand,they go into often a state of
fight or flight.
Right?
Right.

(28:41):
It doesn't always look like theyjust refuse to eat right.
Or they refuse to sit in theirchair.
It can manifest as a tantrum.
Breaking a toy or even physicalviolence, right?
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And we see this in kids, so wecan call that bad behavior and
go down that rabbit hole that Ithink at this point in time,

(29:04):
thankfully, most of us, youknow, in education and
parenting, we figured out thatdoesn't really work.
Yeah.
Instead of doing that, we cantry to connect with them rather
than correct and figure outwhat's behind the behavior.
Yes.
And find out ways, how can Iempower my child?
And so one of the things in thebook is.

(29:25):
There's an itchy clothes moment,right?
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of kids have thissensitivity.
Well, mom's figured that out,right?
Yeah.
So she puts something on, oops,I messed up.
It's itchy.
Yeah.
And instead of saying, no,you're wearing that'cause that's
what we've got.
She says this or this.
Yeah.
Right?

(29:45):
Yeah.
Or we need to take a bath.
And you have to leave your toys,but actually you don't have to
leave your toys.
Do you wanna bring your toyswith you?
Do you wanna bring your blockswith you?
Mm-hmm.
And then the boy thinks about itand he's like, oh, no.
Bubbles sinking the drain.
Oh no, mom, I, I do not wannatake my toys with me'cause it, I

(30:08):
might lose them.
But as simple as that sounds,mom has made it his decision and
empowered him to make areasonable decision.
'cause kids can make reallyreasonable decisions.
Given the opportunity and if wehelp them stay as much as we
can, not gonna happen all thetime.

(30:29):
Mm-hmm of course.
But try to help them stay in aplace of regulation.
'cause if we push the issue andtry to counter control with
further control, we are justgonna get into that fight or
flight stage where we're notlearning, we're not connecting,
they're not gonna do the thingwe want them to do.
And we're not gonna feel goodabout what transpired between

(30:52):
us.
I was gonna say it's a no winsituation.
Totally no win.
Yeah.
Nobody, yeah.
I, I absolutely love what youare saying in two things that
came up for me.
Correction.
Versus connection.
Let's flip it and make surewe've got that connection piece.
And one of the things that Iremember so vividly was my role

(31:15):
as that behavior resourceteacher and principal, um, was
the why behind I.
Behavior because there is areason for everything that
people do.
It's just trying to uncoverwhere that's actually coming
from, that source so that youcan, like your book sounds
amazing and I can't wait to getmy hands on a copy of it.

(31:40):
We've got three grand, fourgrandchildren now, so I might be
ordering quite a few.
Oh, thank you.
I would love to hear what theythink about it.
One thing I will say that myexperience reading it with
children, with the advancedcopies I have, you know, I take
one in in my bag with me andI'll pull it out and just kind
of, sure.
Oh mom, dad, do you mind if Iread this with your kids and

(32:03):
kind of see what they think and.
The experience that I have withchildren is they just love the
boy.
They think he's so funny andthey see themselves in the boy.
And these are children who maynot have autism.
Yeah, they may not have PDA, butthis allows them to see this boy

(32:24):
who is having these really bigemotions and it's illustrated in
such a beautiful, colorful way.
Mom is calm, mom is creating aspace of acceptance.
Yeah.
And so these children areseeing, oh, okay, that's not a
bad kid.
No.
Yeah.
That's a kid who's having afeeling.

(32:45):
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And he is moving through it.
And, and so it's, it's reallyfun not only to read for kids
who see themselves.
Like a replica in the boy.
Right.
'cause they think it's hilariousand they love it.
Sure.
But children who can haveempathy.
Yeah.
For their friends who are havingthis behavior, instead of coming

(33:05):
home and saying, you know, oh,Timmy was being bad today at
school.
They may come home and say,Timmy was having a big emotion
today and Exactly.
We were able to help them.
I love that.
And you know, the thing that I'mseeing a connection to is we as
adults have big emotions too.
Thank you very much.
Yes, yes.

(33:27):
And, and so we can absolutelytake a look at that and go,
okay, so do I need where, what'sgoing on?
Where did that come from?
Because sometimes those bigemotions, you don't even
recognize what's going on if youhaven't done.
That infamous work we've beentalking about.
So thank you so much for thisconversation.

(33:49):
So good.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
And I think that's one of thethings that I hope that the
mother will also give a big hug,a, a virtual hug to yes.
Families that are reading it tosay, Hey, you're doing a great
job.
You know, mom makes mistakes inhere too.
She does things that make himangry that she quote unquote

(34:10):
should, if we're gonna use that.
Horrible word.
Aw.
Should have known better, right?
She makes mistakes too.
But she respond.
She responds calmly.
And I think it's so importantthat when we are around people
who are dysregulated, that welearn as we have, you know, to
circle back to the top of ourconversation, to stay really
centered and who we are, stay incontrol of our own nervous

(34:31):
system.
And if we're feeling that wewanna counter control.
I look that at that as a reallychallenging C.
That's not the CI wanna be inthe counter control.
Yeah.
I want to say instead of, Ooh, Ifeel that control.
I feel those emotions.
I feel even my blood pressuregoing up, my heart rate going
up, I'm maybe my respiratoryrate's going up.

(34:52):
I feel my body is trying to meetyou and kind.
Mm-hmm.
In this moment, I wanna staycentered in who I am and
recognize those emotions areyours.
So that's the moment where Ilean out.
Yes.
And say, I see you.
I see how you feel.
And I leave myself out of itbecause if I lean in and bring

(35:13):
myself into it and we just startmirroring each other, it's that
it's that vicious cycle and it'snot going to get us to
connection.
Absolutely.
And do you.
My experience because I used todo a lot of training in crisis
prevention intervention as atrainer.
And so what you're talking aboutis bringing me right back to no

(35:35):
matter what's happening, we canhelp mirror others to come down
to a calm level and then look atwhat we need to look at after.
But right now, let's just keepeverybody safe and.
That you have a lot ofopportunity to help change the
direction in the course to helpanother self-regulate when I

(35:59):
love what you're saying, youlean back instead of in.
So thank you for that.
Oh, it's my pleasure.
And, and even with somethingstarting with simple things,
like even changing the tone ofyour voice, the volume of your
voice, or.
The rate of your speech.
You know, there are little waysthat you can try to maintain who

(36:21):
you are and how you feel inthose moments, and so we can
find little things that work forus to try to stay centered.
Love it.
Love it.
Thank you so much.
I knew there was this.
Gonna be an amazing conversationand it has been that and more we
have in our show notes howpeople can get connected to you,

(36:42):
how to get the book, all of thegood things.
Are there any words of wisdomwhich you haven't already
shared?
'cause I know you've got somuch.
Anything you want to share withour audience before we say
goodbye?
I know we've, we've used a lotof tools and, and some nice
quotes today.
For me, especially in midlife,we've done a lot of growing in

(37:07):
our lives, right.
And we've developed in a certainway, but as we said earlier, you
know, sometimes we have to takea step back and say, is this.
Is this who I really am and canI continue to grow where I am
with the current environment Ihave?
Or am I going to get stunted,almost like a plant in a box?

(37:28):
And so one thing I always try toencourage listeners and clients
to do is if you can't grow whereyou are, go where you can grow.
So I hope everyone who'slistening now, especially as we
are in spring, and we areliterally.
Seeing the world blossom aroundus.

(37:49):
Take a look at yourself and yourlife.
Are you blossoming?
And if you're not and you can'tgrow where you are, where can
you grow?
Where can you go?
So that is possible.
Thank you so much.
Where can you go to grow foryou?
By you because of you, it istime to thrive after 45.

(38:13):
So thank you again, Dr.
Schafer, for spending this timewith us today.
I wish you all the best.
And to our listeners, make sureyou press that follow and like
button.
Please give reviews if resonateswith you, and we will see you on
the next show.
Goodbye everyone.
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