August 21, 2025 • 33 mins
Alright, friend! Grab your favorite mug and snuggle in, because this week’s episode of Thrive After 45™ is going to spark something incredible in you.
I had the absolute honour of chatting with Tania Carriere, an "epiphany designer" who has dedicated over 30 years to helping others live their fullest lives. Seriously, she’s amazing.
Tania and I talked about everything from her childhood adventures creating plays for sheep on her family farm to how she completely defied a mentor who told her being a "professional best friend" wasn't a real career.
Spoiler alert: She proved him wonderfully wrong!
We dive deep into how travel and theater became the unexpected catalysts for her unique approach to transformative retreats. It's all about stepping out of your current context to truly see yourself and the world in a new light.
And lemme tell ya, what she calls "Defiant Joy" is a concept we all need to embrace, especially as we navigate midlife and beyond. It’s about insisting on joy, vision, and abundance, even when the world tries to tell you otherwise.
Tania truly believes joy isn't something you earn after all the hard work; it's an action, a mindset, a choice, and even a political statement. We are all deserving of joy from the moment we are born.
She also shares exciting details about her upcoming retreats, including "Sanctuary of Self" in Quebec City this October, focused on finding solace within yourself, and "Reimagine Self" in Baja, Mexico this November, where you can shed old archetypes and explore who you dare to be now. And if travel isn't in the cards right now, she offers online experiences too.
This conversation is such a beautiful reminder that life is meant to be exciting, and it’s up to us to reach for that excitement. It's never too late to ask yourself, "Who do you dare to be now?".
You can connect with Tania and explore her incredible work through the links here:
Website: www.advivumjourneys.ca
Linked IN https://www.linkedin.com/in/taniacarriere/?originalSubdomain=ca
With love from The Heart Whisperer....
Denise
Thank you for spending time with me today on the Thrive After 45™ podcast! If this episode spoke to you, be sure to hit that follow button so you never miss one.
And if you loved it, I’d be so grateful if you left a review - it helps more amazing women like you find this show!
Your journey doesn’t stop here - let’s keep the conversation going! Connect with me at denisedrinkwalter.com, and follow @thethriveafter45podcast for daily insp, tips, and support.
Remember, midlife isn’t the end - it’s just the beginning of a new, exciting chapter! Keep thriving, keep shining, and I’ll see you next time!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to ThriveAfter 45, the podcast where we
(00:05):
redefine what's possible inmidlife.
I'm Denise, drink Walter, yourmidlife renewal coach here to
help you embrace your power,purpose, and potential.
This is your space to let go ofguilt, navigate transitions,
rediscover joy and thrive foryou by you because of you.
(00:26):
It is an absolute honor and aprivilege to introduce and
welcome Tanya Carrier to theshow today.
Tanya is an epiphany designer,the founder and artistic
director of Aviva's Journeys,and a woman who has dedicated
(00:47):
over 30 years to helping othersstep in.
To their fullest expression oflife.
She weaves together herbackground in psychology,
executive coaching, leadershipdevelopment, and theater to
create transformative retreatexperiences that invite you to
see yourself.
The world in a completely newway.
(01:09):
Her work is a very unique blendof theater, consulting,
disruption, and heartfeltfriendship, all infused with
Grace, adventure and Joie deViv.
Whether leading a virtualretreat or guiding travelers to
breathtaking destinations, Tanyahelps.
People embrace discovery,celebration, and bold
(01:32):
possibility.
She traveled to over 77countries, served thousands
through her writing andretreats, and is on the board of
Queen of Retreats, and is anadjunct faculty member at the
Modern Elder Academy.
Her TEDx talk, who do you dareto be now, has inspired
(01:55):
audiences worldwide to livecourageously and intentionally.
Tanya.
I am so thrilled to have youhere.
Welcome to our show today.
Thank you, and it's sobeautiful.
Everyone should experiencesomeone reading those kinds of
words about them.
Thank you so much.
(02:15):
That's a really rare treat andit's, I think it's pretty rare
that we allow ourselves to takecenter stage like that.
So I'm, I'm gonna accept thegift.
Thank you so much.
It is my pleasure.
And when I was looking overeverything and we've chatted,
which I do with any of my gueststhat come on my show, we always
(02:35):
connect and see if our energy isaligned and if our messaging is
totally on point, which it is.
And it is absolutely incredibleto hear.
Like I watched your TED Talk,how empowering people.
(02:56):
Go and watch the TED Talk.
We'll make sure it's in the shownotes.
It's incredible your gift ofsharing your experiences in a
way that lights a spark.
Was incredible to me.
So how in the world did thisbecome your way of being?
(03:18):
Can you remember the beginningsof it?
Is there something that makesyou go, oh yeah, Denise, I can
tell you.
I think I can tell you.
It's so funny.
Oh, there you go.
Yeah, and no one's asked me thatbefore, but the answer was like,
whew, I got it.
I do remember being a, a kid andbeing full of this sense of
(03:40):
adventure and curiosity andstory and everything was always
an, uh, a scavenger hunt.
You know, something led tosomething else, but I grew up in
the country.
So there's no one around me.
Two beautiful, wonderful,introverted parents.
So I was always just a littlebit too much for them.
(04:01):
And um, I had to find ways toreally amuse myself and weave
all of these things together.
So I.
I have this distinct image of,you know, creating theater
productions for our sheep.
'cause I lived on a farm, youknow, and just going off and
having conversations with thetrees and, but it's when you're
(04:25):
interacting, you know, andreally just.
Feeling what is coming and goingand taking inspiration from all
around you.
That is somehow what got bakedinto me and I have remained that
kind of adventurer, uh, sincethen.
I love that.
Was it a surprise to yourparents to see how you have
(04:49):
grown over the years, or didthey see.
Yeah, I think, I don't think itwas a surprise.
Okay.
I think it was more like, oh,yeah, yeah.
There's a lot of that going onall the time, you know?
Yeah.
I think what's a surprise isthey didn't think I could ever
make a career outta Mm.
(05:10):
You know, I had started my worldin, um, public policy, worked at
the House of Commons, and then,um, as a consultant and I had a
mentor, and I remember thisconversation.
I know you're gonna love thisgiven what you and I both do.
Yeah.
Conversation with him about, youknow, what my career should be
and what I should do next.
And you know, there was a verysort of steady forward kind of
(05:33):
attitude and um, I remembersaying, but you know, there's
something that I'm super giftedat.
I am super gifted at being thatfriend that will sit on the
other side of the coffee table.
And through stories anddiscoveries, I'll be able to
like just catch the littlefireflies that go by and by the
(05:56):
end of coffee, you're gonnaleave just.
Loving whatever you are or youwant or is ahead of you.
And so I could be thisprofessional best friend, and I
remember my mentor looking at meand saying.
That is not a life path.
You cannot do that as a career.
(06:21):
And that was the end of it.
At that time.
It was the end of it.
I was like, I, I can't, but I'mso good at that.
And here we are, you know, herewe're in this world now where,
you know, the whole.
Globe has been introduced to theconcept of a coach and the power
of someone walking by you andasking questions and helping you
(06:44):
reformulate and reframe throughstory, right?
I mean, we now know it'sprobably the best profession
there is.
So I love you dear mentor, butum, yeah, you were wrong.
Isn't, isn't that incredible?
Because.
I know my audience is puttingtheir hand up going, oh my gosh,
(07:06):
I had the same conversation, andso I shut and clammed up.
I shut down.
I put that not even on the backburner anymore.
I'm like, well, because I admiretheir fortitude, their ability
to see all the things they see.
How did you then go from thatand still keep that fire inside?
(07:28):
Is that because of who you areor do you think there were other
pieces that came together foryou in that?
Making this your reality.
Yeah, I think that's where twopassions that I have sustained
and fueled me, and theneventually collided and, you
know, created what I have now asas a business.
(07:49):
But, you know, my passion fortraveling really came first
simply because I knew that therewas more to discover in this
world than what I was beingshown.
And as you know, I.
I was discovering, and I've toldthis story before, but you know,
the, the fact that toilets flushdifferently in all these
(08:13):
different countries, spaghettiis different in all these
different countries.
You know, the way that peoplegather is different and so
meaningful, and each place Itraveled showed me that the
thing that I was being taught asthe way was just.
One way, right.
(08:34):
That.
Gave me permission to say thankyou for the way that you're
sharing with me.
I will put it in the, you know,little, little hamper with the
rest, you know?
Yeah.
I'll not believe that there isonly one way and I will trust,
you know, my, also my innersense of, well that is a way,
(08:57):
but it doesn't seem to serve mein me being my higher self.
Mm-hmm.
You know, what my mentor wastelling me was a truth, right?
It wasn't serving me in me beingmy higher self.
I knew I had something else togive and so I had to trust that
little instinct.
Yeah.
And then theater was this otherworld, which for the longest
(09:20):
time, I treated as somethingseparate from my, you know,
professional, personal self.
Right?
Then there was this theater selfover there, and.
Theater showed me through storythat we can be many people.
You know, when I'm on stage, Ihave the opportunity to think
(09:42):
like someone else, to act likesomeone else, not to be Tanya
and bound by her scripts and herrules.
To see through other eyes.
And I realized, wow, if that'strue on the stage, that could be
true anywhere.
Yeah, that could be true.
Anytime I walk down the street,I can be somebody else.
(10:03):
And so that knowing that I canchoose these other paths for
myself and then knowing thatthere are so many paths out
there kind of collided together.
And I said, okay, hang on aminute, I think, I think there's
something here for me.
Right, right.
And, and then when you realizedand were doing this new
(10:26):
perspective taking, how did itunfold to start into the whole
idea of retreats and all andsupporting women to experience
their opportunity by providingthat?
I'm not gonna say platform.
What am I?
That experience?
Yeah.
How did, yeah, I just started onmy own journey.
(10:50):
Mm-hmm.
And I've been on quite a few,you know, seeking more and more
experiences.
You know, when I traveled Ididn't wanna do the super
superficial thing anymore.
Yeah.
I wanted to actually go be incommunity with people.
You know, meet women, haveconversation with them or be in
(11:10):
the experience of really beingin the wild or whatever it was.
And these experiences were justopening up these epiphanies for
me all the time.
And it was there that I wasrealizing, oh, I can, when I see
the world differently, I can seemyself differently.
And then I thought, that's whatI want to do.
(11:30):
I wanna create that opportunityfor people.
Mm-hmm.
Not just go on a trip.
Trips are lovely.
Yeah.
I do it all the time.
Yes.
That's wonderful.
Mm-hmm.
To go on a real experience, thisreal journey, and I said, okay.
With my theater background, withmy travel background, with my
psychology background, I cancreate an experience that, like
(11:53):
in theater, I invite people,suspend your disbelief.
Right.
There's no such thing as I amalways.
I have never, it's like, hereyou are in a new space as a new
person, so anything is possible.
So let's suspend our disbelief.
Let's go, you know, back toearly 19 hundreds, England, come
(12:15):
with me.
Who would you be there?
You don't know.
Yeah.
How, how would you know?
Let's live in an English mannerthat just shifts right away.
How you treat yourself.
Yeah, how you fit theexpectations you have, or let's
do the same thing at the edge ofthe world in, you know, Baja,
where you're looking at only thenature, the elements, the sun,
(12:38):
the sand, the ocean.
No tv, no technology, no phone,no person.
Ah, who are you here?
And creating like this wholestage environment just allows us
to unplug from this backstorythat we carry.
Yeah, and the backstory's heavyand it limits us.
(13:00):
There's nothing wrong with it,but it limits us when we're
trying to vision forward.
Right, right.
Yeah, for sure.
It, it puts up blinders and it'sreally that tough, um, haul to
get through and figure out.
Which you take away thosebarriers through your retreats.
(13:22):
You provide opportunity and whata great gift for you by you
because of you.
When you connect with Tanya andsay, woo, this could be
interesting.
Why not?
What do I have to lose?
Yeah.
Right.
Really.
Absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
And what possibility is outthere?
(13:42):
Yeah.
I can't even fathom.
Yeah.
You know, like you can't know aplace from the place you're in.
You can't know another placefrom the place you're in.
Right?
You'll always use this as yourcurrent context.
Right.
Right, and, and so it'ssometimes important to leave the
(14:03):
current context.
You can come back to it.
Of course, you're not throwingthe baby out with the bath water
here, folks.
Yeah, no, no.
But if you are, you know, ifyour mind is churning about
picking somebody up Yeah.
Dinner and making sure you callso and so.
And what about mom?
You can't possibly imagine, youknow, a different life when
(14:26):
you're imbued in this one.
Of course, of course.
It's, it's like you say, itliterally is impossible.
No matter what you do, there'sstill tethered.
You are still tethered.
And what I believe you're sayingis you don't leave yourself, you
expand yourself by going throughthese opportunities that you
(14:48):
provide.
Absolutely.
The home base is always homebase.
I mean, you can go back anddecide, hey, I'm, I'm gonna
remodel home base a little bit.
Yeah.
I'm gonna it up.
Great.
But you go back to it.
Yeah.
But I like to think, you know,people go back with a renewed
sense of who they are, you know?
(15:09):
Mm-hmm.
Life is a time where we'rereworking not just.
What we're doing.
It's not just, oh, the kids areout of the nest, perhaps, or,
oh, I picked the job promotion.
Now what?
Or, you know, it's not justthose tactical changes, but it's
also the realization that, oh,the, the rules of the game that
(15:31):
I thought were important.
They're actually not asimportant anymore or relevant
anymore.
Right.
Or even the values that I wantto live my life by, maybe
they've shifted in priority.
Right.
And where do you go to realizethat you know exactly.
It's not in just day to day, notfor me anyways.
(15:54):
Maybe others, if others aredoing it day to day.
Yeah, I wanna know that.
Yeah.
So there's, there's yourinvitation, right?
If you're doing that, let'stalk.
Yeah.
So you have built communitiesaround the world that explore
change through joy.
(16:14):
What draws people to that andwhat do they leave with?
Hmm.
Well, first of all, community,you know?
Yeah, I hear, and I know youhear over and over again, the
thing that people are aching foris that real sense of being
connected with one another.
(16:36):
Connected in exploration, injoy, in pursuit.
And I know we're connected withfamilies and our systems around
us, but there's, we have an achefor something.
It's a little bit bigger anddeeper than that.
Mm-hmm.
Especially this world is inchaos right now.
It is painful to be in theworld.
It is painful to have our littleantenna, you know, pinging with
(17:00):
what's going on, and we need tohave that soft.
Space to fall that we co-createfor one another.
So first of all, it's, it'ssomething that is so important
and meaningful to me because Ineed so much of it that people
come and just say, well, what Iknow is I've met other people
who are adventuring, who arerequesting, who want more for
(17:24):
themselves and for this world,and who are trying to find a
peaceful gateway into it.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, just that lifts you up.
Of course, just that.
So that is sort of a baselinefor joy.
But then joy is not only thissoft, peaceful thing.
You know, I've really come intothis new practice and I'm doing
(17:47):
this wonderful research aroundsomething called Defiant Joy.
Which is a stance that we takethe stance, and I notice it, I
have to say particularly as weenter into the sage part of our
lives, you know, that we're pastmidway now, we putting some
things together and what's apart of being able to say, oh
(18:13):
no, oh no, you do not get.
To take away my joy.
You do not get to tell me I'mlived living in scarcity.
You do not get to insist uponfear.
You do not get to tell me thatwe are going to cannibalize one
another instead of lift eachother up.
(18:35):
I will be defiant in my joy.
I will.
On beauty, I will insist onhaving vision and passion, the
idea of co-creation andabundance.
Mm-hmm.
I'll be defiant in my choice tolive a life of joy and in doing
so, I will put to bed those whoare trying to create a world
(18:57):
that thrives on something else.
And I think that there's realpower in claiming this place of
defiant joy.
And I think it belongs in thispart of our lives.
Yeah, totally, totally hear,see, understand where you are
coming from when you speakDefiant joy now.
Mm-hmm.
(19:18):
Totally get it.
Yeah.
And I love how your, um, puttingthat stake in the ground that it
is for those of us who have.
Been through the differentcomponents and surface levels of
joy, and now really understand.
(19:41):
Mm-hmm.
No, this is my time and.
You say, but I, that's water offa duck's back now.
I'm done with that and I knowwho I am and I'm learning more
and more every day.
So let's do this.
I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a really, I think anuntapped and unclaimed pace.
(20:05):
Place of power.
Yeah.
For most of us.
We've been taught and told thatJoy is this, you know, fanciful,
ephemeral, you know?
Yeah.
And that's not the case.
You know, joy is also asuperpower.
Mm-hmm.
It can change our lives and theworld.
We can insist upon it.
(20:26):
Absolutely.
And use it to push back what isabsolutely affronting out there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you have any specificconcepts that you are able to
share with us around, you know,these previous and current, and
let's try to get rid of them?
(20:48):
Mm-hmm.
Aspects that exist that, thatpigeonhole.
That pigeonhole people asthey're trying to explore.
Yeah.
Enjoy.
I think we're taught that wehave to, um, earn joy.
You know, joy is the dessert oflife.
(21:10):
You know, after you work hard,after you hustle.
Life is hard.
Even like we work hard.
Yeah.
And then if you've done it allcorrectly and there's another
big, you know, thing that wehave to unpick correctly.
Yeah, yeah.
(21:30):
One, you might be eligible forjoy.
Really?
Yeah.
Really?
I don't think so.
So that would be one of thethings that we bust wide open.
No, no.
I will claim it now.
Mm-hmm.
Joy is an action.
Joy is a mindset.
Yeah.
Joy is a choice.
Joy is a gift that I offersomeone.
(21:53):
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Joy is a political statement.
It is not something that comesas a byproduct of me being a
good girl.
Right?
Yes.
Yes, yes.
And we get to take ownership andresponsibility for our own joy.
Yes.
(22:14):
Right?
Yes.
And I would say not only do weget to, in fact, you know, isn't
it our responsibility, you and Ias wise women, as the, the women
who are shaping mm-hmm.
What is happening in the worldright now.
Yeah.
We don't get to.
I actually need to, yeah, I Wemodel that and say, hold on a
(22:37):
minute.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've completely forgotten thatthis is actually, I don't know.
I'm sure your clients say thisthing.
Most of my clients say after wego through the, why are you
pursuing this?
Why do you want change?
Why do you want more?
What is it all about?
Joy?
That's what we all want.
Yeah.
Why we play with ourgrandchildren, joy.
(22:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Pursue purpose.
Joy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's the end game.
So let's actually claim it.
And everyone, everyone isdeserving of joy.
It's not for the select few.
Absolutely.
That, you know, like you've saidvery well, you gotta earn this
(23:22):
to get that.
It's like, no, and you are notgonna tell me what my joy looks
like either.
Thank you very much.
Exactly.
Yeah, we, and it's not deservingof joy.
Yeah.
It's not worthy of joy.
You were born worthy.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Anybody who holds a little baby.
(23:44):
Anybody.
We all have had that treasuredexperience.
You look at that little childand you're not saying, you know,
I really hope you live up to theexpectations.
'cause one day you'll experiencejoy.
We actually look at it and say,you are the embodiment of joy.
When do we forget that we arethe embodiment of joy?
Yeah.
(24:05):
We are still those babies, youknow?
Exactly.
We have that same spirit.
And so I think activating thatis what's really important.
You know, when we talk aboutwhat's next or life visions or
coming up the second half of theU curve of happiness or any of
those things, it's aboutactivating that sense of being,
(24:26):
um, revitalized.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
What's coming up next in yourworld for our audience to
peruse, jump on a plane and comewith what's next.
(24:47):
Could you share that?
Do you get to share that?
Sure, I can.
So let's see.
Next.
So right in summer right now,which is nice.
Everybody's, you know, mm-hmm.
Relaxing a little bit October,mid-October in Quebec City.
Uh, so in the middle of all ofthe beautiful Canadian colors
and the maples.
(25:07):
I have a retreat called theSanctuary of Self, and all of my
retreats are designed aroundquestions and quests that I've
been on personally, and I, Iremember coming not so long ago
to this realization that when Igo through, uh, some kind of
(25:28):
itchiness in life, I often seeksolace elsewhere.
You know, and go somewhere.
I travel, I escape.
I find a friend, I, it's out.
And there's nothing wrong withthat.
Yep.
Absolutely not wrong with that.
But I realized, wow, you know,that idea of finding this sense
(25:51):
of sanctuary is barely in me.
It's not the first place I go.
You know, I don't do the trustfall first into me, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because it's in my head where Ihave all of these expectations
and all of these judgements andall of these shoulds and all of
this questioning whether I didit right or not, or could do
(26:13):
more or ne nah.
So it's actually quite hostilein here, if I'm honest, often,
right?
Right.
Often.
Yeah.
And so sanctuary of self inQuebec City is really about
creating that sense of, ugh,what if I turned into me?
What if I trusted me as thatfirst place that I could just be
(26:33):
held against my own heart andjust go, okay, deep breath.
Where are we now?
So sanctuary of self, um, in abeautiful, absolutely incredible
historic building.
I'll only say that, but it ishistoric.
And then in November, uh,traveling down to Baja, Mexico.
(26:54):
Um, to a place that's called theNest, which is right at the
point of East Cape.
There is nothing around it.
It's so wonderful.
There is the morning sunrisethat comes out over the ocean.
These whitewashed littlebuildings, huts that are there,
beautifully appointed, and therewe reimagine ourselves.
(27:16):
So it's like if you could gosomewhere and shut it all down,
right?
The technology, the voices, theresponsibilities, the
obligations, and just show upsomewhere where every day in
ritual and in ceremony, we givegratitude, we explore self and
we reimagine.
(27:36):
Mm-hmm.
There are no rules.
You could.
Emerge as anyone you wish.
And of course, I don't mean youknow, necessarily changing the
architecture of your life, ofcourse, but what if you changed
one of the archetypes that youchoose to be living from in your
life?
So instead of warrior, what ifyou decided to reemerge as
(27:59):
maiden, which is my currentjourney.
Okay.
Where I ignited this idea ofplayfulness and joy and fun and
mirth, you know, so I've chosento take that archetype as the
one that is, you know, guidingwho I am right now.
Right?
And I go in and reimaginemyself.
(28:20):
Really very regularly, I think,you know, back to theater, why
wouldn't I play all of theseaspects of who I am?
Yep, for sure.
Why wouldn't just stick withone?
So that's.
Part of what we do in thereimagine self, and that's, did
I say in November?
November?
Yes.
(28:41):
Yeah.
And for people who can't travel,maybe travel is not a part of
what they can do.
Hey, you know, um.
I also do a lot of online thingswhere I just invite people to
come and play.
Right.
Just come and play and exploreor come work with me.
I'll be your coach or plan fornext year when we go to France
(29:04):
and we decide what's beef?
You know, there's lots of ways.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It sounds like this is nevergoing away, which is a beautiful
gift not only to yourself, butto the audience at large, the
worldwide audience at large.
So I am honored to share thisspace and time with you today.
(29:26):
Is there anything in particularyou would love to leave our
audience with before we wrap uptoday's conversation?
I really love.
Asking the question of myselfand others, who do you dare to
(29:47):
be?
Mm-hmm.
And it's really that dare.
Who do you dare to be now?
Like can we put ourselves rightat the edge of what we know?
Life is meant to be Exciting.
Yeah, it really is.
And it's for us to reach, for itto be exciting.
(30:09):
Exciting doesn't drop on us.
Right.
Yeah.
That's chaos.
Exactly.
Exciting doesn.
Yeah.
And we don't have to earn itlike we have to just reach into
it.
So who would you dare to be now?
Mm-hmm.
And you know, we all know thefollow up phrase.
If not now, when?
Right When Yeah.
(30:30):
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you know, at the end of theday, we don't know how much time
we.
As me, you, whoever have no, no.
So there's no, there's no timeto waste because we just don't
(30:51):
know.
So why not?
There's nothing to lose andeverything to gain because you
get to track back to who youreally are in your spirit and
your soul, and guide yourselfthere with.
Incredible people like yourself,Tanya, who do this so eloquently
(31:12):
and alongside you, don't createand then say, here you go.
You are right in there doing.
All the incredible shifts andchanges and Oh my goodness,
epiphanies.
Ta ta, right?
Ta Yes.
(31:32):
Yeah, indeed.
Yeah.
So, mm-hmm.
And I think it's, um, I lovethat feeling and I often meet.
You know, people I've workedwith as I'm traveling or moving
around, and it's just such abeautiful thing in that one
instinct to go, Hey, helloagain.
And what epiphany have you got?
(31:52):
You know, here's what's strikingme, right?
I mean, that's how we shouldgreet each other, I think all
the time, a hundred percent,because we're missing out when
we don't.
When we don't step into it.
So absolutely.
If today's conversation hassparked something in you, I
really do invite you to keepthat spark alive.
(32:15):
Please make sure you share thisepisode with somebody who needs
that inspiration.
Follow, review, thrive after FOafter 45 so more women can join
us in these powerfulconversations.
And.
Invite you to take the next stepin your own journey by joining
me inside becoming her mentormembership.
(32:38):
And it's where we go deepertogether to uncover your
purpose, embrace your power, andstep boldly into the life you
are meant to be living.
Do this for you.
By you because of you.
Tanya, thank you again for beinghere with us today and keep
(32:58):
those.
Gifts and energy flowing.
And uh, we will have all theshow in the show notes, all the
ways people can connect with youto see what's coming up.
And thank you for sharing what'scoming up in October and
November.
I don't think you sleepgirlfriend.
Yeah, sleep is for later.
(33:19):
There you go.
There you go.
Thank you.
And make sure that you have agreat day.
Take care everyone.
Bye-bye.
Hello and welcome to ThriveAfter 45, the podcast where we
(00:05):
redefine what's possible inmidlife.
I'm Denise, drink Walter, yourmidlife renewal coach here to
help you embrace your power,purpose, and potential.
This is your space to let go ofguilt, navigate transitions,
rediscover joy and thrive foryou by you because of you.
(00:26):
It is an absolute honor and aprivilege to introduce and
welcome Tanya Carrier to theshow today.
Tanya is an epiphany designer,the founder and artistic
director of Aviva's Journeys,and a woman who has dedicated
(00:47):
over 30 years to helping othersstep in.
To their fullest expression oflife.
She weaves together herbackground in psychology,
executive coaching, leadershipdevelopment, and theater to
create transformative retreatexperiences that invite you to
see yourself.
The world in a completely newway.
(01:09):
Her work is a very unique blendof theater, consulting,
disruption, and heartfeltfriendship, all infused with
Grace, adventure and Joie deViv.
Whether leading a virtualretreat or guiding travelers to
breathtaking destinations, Tanyahelps.
People embrace discovery,celebration, and bold
(01:32):
possibility.
She traveled to over 77countries, served thousands
through her writing andretreats, and is on the board of
Queen of Retreats, and is anadjunct faculty member at the
Modern Elder Academy.
Her TEDx talk, who do you dareto be now, has inspired
(01:55):
audiences worldwide to livecourageously and intentionally.
Tanya.
I am so thrilled to have youhere.
Welcome to our show today.
Thank you, and it's sobeautiful.
Everyone should experiencesomeone reading those kinds of
words about them.
Thank you so much.
(02:15):
That's a really rare treat andit's, I think it's pretty rare
that we allow ourselves to takecenter stage like that.
So I'm, I'm gonna accept thegift.
Thank you so much.
It is my pleasure.
And when I was looking overeverything and we've chatted,
which I do with any of my gueststhat come on my show, we always
(02:35):
connect and see if our energy isaligned and if our messaging is
totally on point, which it is.
And it is absolutely incredibleto hear.
Like I watched your TED Talk,how empowering people.
(02:56):
Go and watch the TED Talk.
We'll make sure it's in the shownotes.
It's incredible your gift ofsharing your experiences in a
way that lights a spark.
Was incredible to me.
So how in the world did thisbecome your way of being?
(03:18):
Can you remember the beginningsof it?
Is there something that makesyou go, oh yeah, Denise, I can
tell you.
I think I can tell you.
It's so funny.
Oh, there you go.
Yeah, and no one's asked me thatbefore, but the answer was like,
whew, I got it.
I do remember being a, a kid andbeing full of this sense of
(03:40):
adventure and curiosity andstory and everything was always
an, uh, a scavenger hunt.
You know, something led tosomething else, but I grew up in
the country.
So there's no one around me.
Two beautiful, wonderful,introverted parents.
So I was always just a littlebit too much for them.
(04:01):
And um, I had to find ways toreally amuse myself and weave
all of these things together.
So I.
I have this distinct image of,you know, creating theater
productions for our sheep.
'cause I lived on a farm, youknow, and just going off and
having conversations with thetrees and, but it's when you're
(04:25):
interacting, you know, andreally just.
Feeling what is coming and goingand taking inspiration from all
around you.
That is somehow what got bakedinto me and I have remained that
kind of adventurer, uh, sincethen.
I love that.
Was it a surprise to yourparents to see how you have
(04:49):
grown over the years, or didthey see.
Yeah, I think, I don't think itwas a surprise.
Okay.
I think it was more like, oh,yeah, yeah.
There's a lot of that going onall the time, you know?
Yeah.
I think what's a surprise isthey didn't think I could ever
make a career outta Mm.
(05:10):
You know, I had started my worldin, um, public policy, worked at
the House of Commons, and then,um, as a consultant and I had a
mentor, and I remember thisconversation.
I know you're gonna love thisgiven what you and I both do.
Yeah.
Conversation with him about, youknow, what my career should be
and what I should do next.
And you know, there was a verysort of steady forward kind of
(05:33):
attitude and um, I remembersaying, but you know, there's
something that I'm super giftedat.
I am super gifted at being thatfriend that will sit on the
other side of the coffee table.
And through stories anddiscoveries, I'll be able to
like just catch the littlefireflies that go by and by the
(05:56):
end of coffee, you're gonnaleave just.
Loving whatever you are or youwant or is ahead of you.
And so I could be thisprofessional best friend, and I
remember my mentor looking at meand saying.
That is not a life path.
You cannot do that as a career.
(06:21):
And that was the end of it.
At that time.
It was the end of it.
I was like, I, I can't, but I'mso good at that.
And here we are, you know, herewe're in this world now where,
you know, the whole.
Globe has been introduced to theconcept of a coach and the power
of someone walking by you andasking questions and helping you
(06:44):
reformulate and reframe throughstory, right?
I mean, we now know it'sprobably the best profession
there is.
So I love you dear mentor, butum, yeah, you were wrong.
Isn't, isn't that incredible?
Because.
I know my audience is puttingtheir hand up going, oh my gosh,
(07:06):
I had the same conversation, andso I shut and clammed up.
I shut down.
I put that not even on the backburner anymore.
I'm like, well, because I admiretheir fortitude, their ability
to see all the things they see.
How did you then go from thatand still keep that fire inside?
(07:28):
Is that because of who you areor do you think there were other
pieces that came together foryou in that?
Making this your reality.
Yeah, I think that's where twopassions that I have sustained
and fueled me, and theneventually collided and, you
know, created what I have now asas a business.
(07:49):
But, you know, my passion fortraveling really came first
simply because I knew that therewas more to discover in this
world than what I was beingshown.
And as you know, I.
I was discovering, and I've toldthis story before, but you know,
the, the fact that toilets flushdifferently in all these
(08:13):
different countries, spaghettiis different in all these
different countries.
You know, the way that peoplegather is different and so
meaningful, and each place Itraveled showed me that the
thing that I was being taught asthe way was just.
One way, right.
(08:34):
That.
Gave me permission to say thankyou for the way that you're
sharing with me.
I will put it in the, you know,little, little hamper with the
rest, you know?
Yeah.
I'll not believe that there isonly one way and I will trust,
you know, my, also my innersense of, well that is a way,
(08:57):
but it doesn't seem to serve mein me being my higher self.
Mm-hmm.
You know, what my mentor wastelling me was a truth, right?
It wasn't serving me in me beingmy higher self.
I knew I had something else togive and so I had to trust that
little instinct.
Yeah.
And then theater was this otherworld, which for the longest
(09:20):
time, I treated as somethingseparate from my, you know,
professional, personal self.
Right?
Then there was this theater selfover there, and.
Theater showed me through storythat we can be many people.
You know, when I'm on stage, Ihave the opportunity to think
(09:42):
like someone else, to act likesomeone else, not to be Tanya
and bound by her scripts and herrules.
To see through other eyes.
And I realized, wow, if that'strue on the stage, that could be
true anywhere.
Yeah, that could be true.
Anytime I walk down the street,I can be somebody else.
(10:03):
And so that knowing that I canchoose these other paths for
myself and then knowing thatthere are so many paths out
there kind of collided together.
And I said, okay, hang on aminute, I think, I think there's
something here for me.
Right, right.
And, and then when you realizedand were doing this new
(10:26):
perspective taking, how did itunfold to start into the whole
idea of retreats and all andsupporting women to experience
their opportunity by providingthat?
I'm not gonna say platform.
What am I?
That experience?
Yeah.
How did, yeah, I just started onmy own journey.
(10:50):
Mm-hmm.
And I've been on quite a few,you know, seeking more and more
experiences.
You know, when I traveled Ididn't wanna do the super
superficial thing anymore.
Yeah.
I wanted to actually go be incommunity with people.
You know, meet women, haveconversation with them or be in
(11:10):
the experience of really beingin the wild or whatever it was.
And these experiences were justopening up these epiphanies for
me all the time.
And it was there that I wasrealizing, oh, I can, when I see
the world differently, I can seemyself differently.
And then I thought, that's whatI want to do.
(11:30):
I wanna create that opportunityfor people.
Mm-hmm.
Not just go on a trip.
Trips are lovely.
Yeah.
I do it all the time.
Yes.
That's wonderful.
Mm-hmm.
To go on a real experience, thisreal journey, and I said, okay.
With my theater background, withmy travel background, with my
psychology background, I cancreate an experience that, like
(11:53):
in theater, I invite people,suspend your disbelief.
Right.
There's no such thing as I amalways.
I have never, it's like, hereyou are in a new space as a new
person, so anything is possible.
So let's suspend our disbelief.
Let's go, you know, back toearly 19 hundreds, England, come
(12:15):
with me.
Who would you be there?
You don't know.
Yeah.
How, how would you know?
Let's live in an English mannerthat just shifts right away.
How you treat yourself.
Yeah, how you fit theexpectations you have, or let's
do the same thing at the edge ofthe world in, you know, Baja,
where you're looking at only thenature, the elements, the sun,
(12:38):
the sand, the ocean.
No tv, no technology, no phone,no person.
Ah, who are you here?
And creating like this wholestage environment just allows us
to unplug from this backstorythat we carry.
Yeah, and the backstory's heavyand it limits us.
(13:00):
There's nothing wrong with it,but it limits us when we're
trying to vision forward.
Right, right.
Yeah, for sure.
It, it puts up blinders and it'sreally that tough, um, haul to
get through and figure out.
Which you take away thosebarriers through your retreats.
(13:22):
You provide opportunity and whata great gift for you by you
because of you.
When you connect with Tanya andsay, woo, this could be
interesting.
Why not?
What do I have to lose?
Yeah.
Right.
Really.
Absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
And what possibility is outthere?
(13:42):
Yeah.
I can't even fathom.
Yeah.
You know, like you can't know aplace from the place you're in.
You can't know another placefrom the place you're in.
Right?
You'll always use this as yourcurrent context.
Right.
Right, and, and so it'ssometimes important to leave the
(14:03):
current context.
You can come back to it.
Of course, you're not throwingthe baby out with the bath water
here, folks.
Yeah, no, no.
But if you are, you know, ifyour mind is churning about
picking somebody up Yeah.
Dinner and making sure you callso and so.
And what about mom?
You can't possibly imagine, youknow, a different life when
(14:26):
you're imbued in this one.
Of course, of course.
It's, it's like you say, itliterally is impossible.
No matter what you do, there'sstill tethered.
You are still tethered.
And what I believe you're sayingis you don't leave yourself, you
expand yourself by going throughthese opportunities that you
(14:48):
provide.
Absolutely.
The home base is always homebase.
I mean, you can go back anddecide, hey, I'm, I'm gonna
remodel home base a little bit.
Yeah.
I'm gonna it up.
Great.
But you go back to it.
Yeah.
But I like to think, you know,people go back with a renewed
sense of who they are, you know?
(15:09):
Mm-hmm.
Life is a time where we'rereworking not just.
What we're doing.
It's not just, oh, the kids areout of the nest, perhaps, or,
oh, I picked the job promotion.
Now what?
Or, you know, it's not justthose tactical changes, but it's
also the realization that, oh,the, the rules of the game that
(15:31):
I thought were important.
They're actually not asimportant anymore or relevant
anymore.
Right.
Or even the values that I wantto live my life by, maybe
they've shifted in priority.
Right.
And where do you go to realizethat you know exactly.
It's not in just day to day, notfor me anyways.
(15:54):
Maybe others, if others aredoing it day to day.
Yeah, I wanna know that.
Yeah.
So there's, there's yourinvitation, right?
If you're doing that, let'stalk.
Yeah.
So you have built communitiesaround the world that explore
change through joy.
(16:14):
What draws people to that andwhat do they leave with?
Hmm.
Well, first of all, community,you know?
Yeah, I hear, and I know youhear over and over again, the
thing that people are aching foris that real sense of being
connected with one another.
(16:36):
Connected in exploration, injoy, in pursuit.
And I know we're connected withfamilies and our systems around
us, but there's, we have an achefor something.
It's a little bit bigger anddeeper than that.
Mm-hmm.
Especially this world is inchaos right now.
It is painful to be in theworld.
It is painful to have our littleantenna, you know, pinging with
(17:00):
what's going on, and we need tohave that soft.
Space to fall that we co-createfor one another.
So first of all, it's, it'ssomething that is so important
and meaningful to me because Ineed so much of it that people
come and just say, well, what Iknow is I've met other people
who are adventuring, who arerequesting, who want more for
(17:24):
themselves and for this world,and who are trying to find a
peaceful gateway into it.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, just that lifts you up.
Of course, just that.
So that is sort of a baselinefor joy.
But then joy is not only thissoft, peaceful thing.
You know, I've really come intothis new practice and I'm doing
(17:47):
this wonderful research aroundsomething called Defiant Joy.
Which is a stance that we takethe stance, and I notice it, I
have to say particularly as weenter into the sage part of our
lives, you know, that we're pastmidway now, we putting some
things together and what's apart of being able to say, oh
(18:13):
no, oh no, you do not get.
To take away my joy.
You do not get to tell me I'mlived living in scarcity.
You do not get to insist uponfear.
You do not get to tell me thatwe are going to cannibalize one
another instead of lift eachother up.
(18:35):
I will be defiant in my joy.
I will.
On beauty, I will insist onhaving vision and passion, the
idea of co-creation andabundance.
Mm-hmm.
I'll be defiant in my choice tolive a life of joy and in doing
so, I will put to bed those whoare trying to create a world
(18:57):
that thrives on something else.
And I think that there's realpower in claiming this place of
defiant joy.
And I think it belongs in thispart of our lives.
Yeah, totally, totally hear,see, understand where you are
coming from when you speakDefiant joy now.
Mm-hmm.
(19:18):
Totally get it.
Yeah.
And I love how your, um, puttingthat stake in the ground that it
is for those of us who have.
Been through the differentcomponents and surface levels of
joy, and now really understand.
(19:41):
Mm-hmm.
No, this is my time and.
You say, but I, that's water offa duck's back now.
I'm done with that and I knowwho I am and I'm learning more
and more every day.
So let's do this.
I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a really, I think anuntapped and unclaimed pace.
(20:05):
Place of power.
Yeah.
For most of us.
We've been taught and told thatJoy is this, you know, fanciful,
ephemeral, you know?
Yeah.
And that's not the case.
You know, joy is also asuperpower.
Mm-hmm.
It can change our lives and theworld.
We can insist upon it.
(20:26):
Absolutely.
And use it to push back what isabsolutely affronting out there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you have any specificconcepts that you are able to
share with us around, you know,these previous and current, and
let's try to get rid of them?
(20:48):
Mm-hmm.
Aspects that exist that, thatpigeonhole.
That pigeonhole people asthey're trying to explore.
Yeah.
Enjoy.
I think we're taught that wehave to, um, earn joy.
You know, joy is the dessert oflife.
(21:10):
You know, after you work hard,after you hustle.
Life is hard.
Even like we work hard.
Yeah.
And then if you've done it allcorrectly and there's another
big, you know, thing that wehave to unpick correctly.
Yeah, yeah.
(21:30):
One, you might be eligible forjoy.
Really?
Yeah.
Really?
I don't think so.
So that would be one of thethings that we bust wide open.
No, no.
I will claim it now.
Mm-hmm.
Joy is an action.
Joy is a mindset.
Yeah.
Joy is a choice.
Joy is a gift that I offersomeone.
(21:53):
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Joy is a political statement.
It is not something that comesas a byproduct of me being a
good girl.
Right?
Yes.
Yes, yes.
And we get to take ownership andresponsibility for our own joy.
Yes.
(22:14):
Right?
Yes.
And I would say not only do weget to, in fact, you know, isn't
it our responsibility, you and Ias wise women, as the, the women
who are shaping mm-hmm.
What is happening in the worldright now.
Yeah.
We don't get to.
I actually need to, yeah, I Wemodel that and say, hold on a
(22:37):
minute.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You've completely forgotten thatthis is actually, I don't know.
I'm sure your clients say thisthing.
Most of my clients say after wego through the, why are you
pursuing this?
Why do you want change?
Why do you want more?
What is it all about?
Joy?
That's what we all want.
Yeah.
Why we play with ourgrandchildren, joy.
(22:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Pursue purpose.
Joy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's the end game.
So let's actually claim it.
And everyone, everyone isdeserving of joy.
It's not for the select few.
Absolutely.
That, you know, like you've saidvery well, you gotta earn this
(23:22):
to get that.
It's like, no, and you are notgonna tell me what my joy looks
like either.
Thank you very much.
Exactly.
Yeah, we, and it's not deservingof joy.
Yeah.
It's not worthy of joy.
You were born worthy.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Anybody who holds a little baby.
(23:44):
Anybody.
We all have had that treasuredexperience.
You look at that little childand you're not saying, you know,
I really hope you live up to theexpectations.
'cause one day you'll experiencejoy.
We actually look at it and say,you are the embodiment of joy.
When do we forget that we arethe embodiment of joy?
Yeah.
(24:05):
We are still those babies, youknow?
Exactly.
We have that same spirit.
And so I think activating thatis what's really important.
You know, when we talk aboutwhat's next or life visions or
coming up the second half of theU curve of happiness or any of
those things, it's aboutactivating that sense of being,
(24:26):
um, revitalized.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
What's coming up next in yourworld for our audience to
peruse, jump on a plane and comewith what's next.
(24:47):
Could you share that?
Do you get to share that?
Sure, I can.
So let's see.
Next.
So right in summer right now,which is nice.
Everybody's, you know, mm-hmm.
Relaxing a little bit October,mid-October in Quebec City.
Uh, so in the middle of all ofthe beautiful Canadian colors
and the maples.
(25:07):
I have a retreat called theSanctuary of Self, and all of my
retreats are designed aroundquestions and quests that I've
been on personally, and I, Iremember coming not so long ago
to this realization that when Igo through, uh, some kind of
(25:28):
itchiness in life, I often seeksolace elsewhere.
You know, and go somewhere.
I travel, I escape.
I find a friend, I, it's out.
And there's nothing wrong withthat.
Yep.
Absolutely not wrong with that.
But I realized, wow, you know,that idea of finding this sense
(25:51):
of sanctuary is barely in me.
It's not the first place I go.
You know, I don't do the trustfall first into me, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because it's in my head where Ihave all of these expectations
and all of these judgements andall of these shoulds and all of
this questioning whether I didit right or not, or could do
(26:13):
more or ne nah.
So it's actually quite hostilein here, if I'm honest, often,
right?
Right.
Often.
Yeah.
And so sanctuary of self inQuebec City is really about
creating that sense of, ugh,what if I turned into me?
What if I trusted me as thatfirst place that I could just be
(26:33):
held against my own heart andjust go, okay, deep breath.
Where are we now?
So sanctuary of self, um, in abeautiful, absolutely incredible
historic building.
I'll only say that, but it ishistoric.
And then in November, uh,traveling down to Baja, Mexico.
(26:54):
Um, to a place that's called theNest, which is right at the
point of East Cape.
There is nothing around it.
It's so wonderful.
There is the morning sunrisethat comes out over the ocean.
These whitewashed littlebuildings, huts that are there,
beautifully appointed, and therewe reimagine ourselves.
(27:16):
So it's like if you could gosomewhere and shut it all down,
right?
The technology, the voices, theresponsibilities, the
obligations, and just show upsomewhere where every day in
ritual and in ceremony, we givegratitude, we explore self and
we reimagine.
(27:36):
Mm-hmm.
There are no rules.
You could.
Emerge as anyone you wish.
And of course, I don't mean youknow, necessarily changing the
architecture of your life, ofcourse, but what if you changed
one of the archetypes that youchoose to be living from in your
life?
So instead of warrior, what ifyou decided to reemerge as
(27:59):
maiden, which is my currentjourney.
Okay.
Where I ignited this idea ofplayfulness and joy and fun and
mirth, you know, so I've chosento take that archetype as the
one that is, you know, guidingwho I am right now.
Right?
And I go in and reimaginemyself.
(28:20):
Really very regularly, I think,you know, back to theater, why
wouldn't I play all of theseaspects of who I am?
Yep, for sure.
Why wouldn't just stick withone?
So that's.
Part of what we do in thereimagine self, and that's, did
I say in November?
November?
Yes.
(28:41):
Yeah.
And for people who can't travel,maybe travel is not a part of
what they can do.
Hey, you know, um.
I also do a lot of online thingswhere I just invite people to
come and play.
Right.
Just come and play and exploreor come work with me.
I'll be your coach or plan fornext year when we go to France
(29:04):
and we decide what's beef?
You know, there's lots of ways.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It sounds like this is nevergoing away, which is a beautiful
gift not only to yourself, butto the audience at large, the
worldwide audience at large.
So I am honored to share thisspace and time with you today.
(29:26):
Is there anything in particularyou would love to leave our
audience with before we wrap uptoday's conversation?
I really love.
Asking the question of myselfand others, who do you dare to
(29:47):
be?
Mm-hmm.
And it's really that dare.
Who do you dare to be now?
Like can we put ourselves rightat the edge of what we know?
Life is meant to be Exciting.
Yeah, it really is.
And it's for us to reach, for itto be exciting.
(30:09):
Exciting doesn't drop on us.
Right.
Yeah.
That's chaos.
Exactly.
Exciting doesn.
Yeah.
And we don't have to earn itlike we have to just reach into
it.
So who would you dare to be now?
Mm-hmm.
And you know, we all know thefollow up phrase.
If not now, when?
Right When Yeah.
(30:30):
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you know, at the end of theday, we don't know how much time
we.
As me, you, whoever have no, no.
So there's no, there's no timeto waste because we just don't
(30:51):
know.
So why not?
There's nothing to lose andeverything to gain because you
get to track back to who youreally are in your spirit and
your soul, and guide yourselfthere with.
Incredible people like yourself,Tanya, who do this so eloquently
(31:12):
and alongside you, don't createand then say, here you go.
You are right in there doing.
All the incredible shifts andchanges and Oh my goodness,
epiphanies.
Ta ta, right?
Ta Yes.
(31:32):
Yeah, indeed.
Yeah.
So, mm-hmm.
And I think it's, um, I lovethat feeling and I often meet.
You know, people I've workedwith as I'm traveling or moving
around, and it's just such abeautiful thing in that one
instinct to go, Hey, helloagain.
And what epiphany have you got?
(31:52):
You know, here's what's strikingme, right?
I mean, that's how we shouldgreet each other, I think all
the time, a hundred percent,because we're missing out when
we don't.
When we don't step into it.
So absolutely.
If today's conversation hassparked something in you, I
really do invite you to keepthat spark alive.
(32:15):
Please make sure you share thisepisode with somebody who needs
that inspiration.
Follow, review, thrive after FOafter 45 so more women can join
us in these powerfulconversations.
And.
Invite you to take the next stepin your own journey by joining
me inside becoming her mentormembership.
(32:38):
And it's where we go deepertogether to uncover your
purpose, embrace your power, andstep boldly into the life you
are meant to be living.
Do this for you.
By you because of you.
Tanya, thank you again for beinghere with us today and keep
(32:58):
those.
Gifts and energy flowing.
And uh, we will have all theshow in the show notes, all the
ways people can connect with youto see what's coming up.
And thank you for sharing what'scoming up in October and
November.
I don't think you sleepgirlfriend.
Yeah, sleep is for later.
(33:19):
There you go.
There you go.
Thank you.
And make sure that you have agreat day.
Take care everyone.
Bye-bye.
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