July 24, 2025 • 33 mins
Barbara Bowman - author, speaker, and real-life grief whisperer - is turning some of the most awkward, heart-wrenching moments around death into opportunities for connection, compassion, and deep humanity.
She has lived through unimaginable loss, and instead of hardening...she softened.
She stayed open.
She paid attention.
And she turned all of it into wisdom you can actually use - especially in those moments when you're fumbling for the right words, trying to show up for someone, or wondering if it’s better to just stay away.
This conversation is equal parts hilarious (yes, we talk about the woman who wore a trampy dress to a funeral) and deeply healing.
We get into the real stuff - like what not to say when someone’s grieving, how to avoid those well-meaning-but-damaging platitudes, and why “I know how you feel” is probably the worst thing you can say.
Barbara shares so many lightbulb moments around how we show up for each other during life’s hardest times.
This episode should honestly be required listening for all humans.
Her heart, humor, and honesty are such a gift.
You’ll hear us riff on:
- Why comparison is the quickest way to make someone feel unseen in their grief
- The silent damage of “doing nothing”
- How to repair relationships when you feel like you messed it up
- Why your awkwardness isn’t the problem - disappearing is
- And how you can be the person who shows up with compassion, presence, and love… even when you don’t have the perfect words
Barbara’s guide What Not to Do at Funerals is a must-have. It’s short, punchy, and packed with grace (and a few spicy anecdotes). If you’ve ever wondered what to say, how to help, or how to not be remembered for the wrong reasons - get this book, like....yesterday.
Listen in, take notes, and share this one with someone you care about. We all need this kind of wisdom in our back pocket.
🎧 Barbara's book What Not to Do at Funerals is available on Amazon.
✨ To learn more or connect with Barbara, visit www.bowheart.com
Thank you for spending time with me today on the Thrive After 45™ podcast! If this episode spoke to you, be sure to hit that follow button so you never miss one.
And if you loved it, I’d be so grateful if you left a review - it helps more amazing women like you find this show!
Your journey doesn’t stop here - let’s keep the conversation going! Connect with me at denisedrinkwalter.com, and follow @thethriveafter45podcast for daily insp, tips, and support.
Remember, midlife isn’t the end - it’s just the beginning of a new, exciting chapter! Keep thriving, keep shining, and I’ll see you next time!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to ThriveAfter 45, the podcast where we
redefine what's possible inmidlife.
I'm Denise.
Drink your midlife renewal coachhere to help you embrace your
power, purpose, and potential.
This is your space to let go ofguilt, navigate transitions,
rediscover joy and thrive foryou by you.
(00:22):
Because of you, we are.
Honored.
Honored and it is a trueprivilege to introduce and
welcome Barbara Bowman to thriveafter 5 45 today.
Barbara is a deeplycompassionate author and speaker
whose work on modern grief.
Has been shaped by a lifetime ofprofound personal loss and a
(00:43):
calling to help others feelseen, understood, and less alone
in the midst of it with graceand honesty, she offers guidance
through the quiet discomfort somany of us feel around death and
grief, helping people find theright words, meaningful ways to
show up.
And space to simply be presentwhen someone is hurting.
(01:07):
Her insight is tender, timely,and filled with hard earned
wisdom.
And we're truly, truly gratefulto have you, Barbara, here with
us on Thrive after 45.
So great to have you here today.
Oh, well, no, my pleasure ismine.
Thank you so much.
That was that.
That was a beautiful.
(01:28):
How grateful I'm for thosewords.
That was very nice of you tosay.
You're more than all and I won'tdeny any of it, but nope.
And, and nor should you, mydear, nor should you.
I love your energy.
I have to say that right fromthe, uh, from the get go.
As soon as I hear about griefand death and passing, a lot of
(01:50):
us go into the sadness of all ofthat, and we're.
Going to explore verychallenging conversations that
can happen around grief anddeath and dying, but we're not
gonna do it in such a way thatit pulls all of us down because
you have got so much.
(02:14):
Incredible, um, guidance andwisdom behind you on how to help
people find words.
When words seem to be lostduring times of grief and
sorrow.
What happens or what happens aspeople.
(02:34):
Try to digest and figure outwhat's the right thing to say.
Have you noticed anything that'skind of common that happens with
people?
Oh, sure.
Yeah.
There's, there's a couple ofvery common situations that
happen.
If one is not familiar withgrief, they haven't really lost
any, anyone in their life yet.
They'll often completely pullaway, we'll, I'll just deal with
(02:57):
them when, when they feelbetter, the awkwardness around
what not to do.
They become so self-focused.
Ah, that they just separate, notrealizing that that's probably
the worst thing you can do.
Mm-hmm.
And then the second thing thatis often really very common and
often causes mistakes or inrelationships that have to be
(03:21):
mended, is the comparison.
You know, I lost.
My grandmother, so I know howyou must feel that you lost your
son or your spouse.
No, you don't.
Yeah, no, you don't.
The comparison, grief makespeople feel like you don't
understand my grief for what I'mgoing through.
(03:41):
Because even though I do believethat there, there's a hard line
between people who have grievedand people who haven't grieved.
Okay.
With personal loss, I mean likenot, you know, grieving a job
or.
Different, right.
Kind of personal loss that is anexperience that you now have in
your life that you'll never havehad before you, so you can't
really explain it to someone.
(04:02):
Right.
But the secondary misconmisconception happens when the
relationship of what's lost isso different to each person.
Yes.
So when, my example, if you hada grandmother that died and
you're younger and she wasalways very elderly and older,
and then she was ill and youexpected it.
That goes along the traditionallines of life and death and
(04:26):
you're, you're, you've alwayswaited for the step and you're
sad because you miss, you're,you know, you're Meemaw, um,
right.
But that, that depth is nowherein comparison to a daily
relationship you have withsomeone who may have died
spontaneously through,especially a younger person,
through a drug overdose or asuicide car accident.
(04:47):
These are so much moretraumatic.
And more deeply felt right.
Um, especially to someone who'sin that immediate family.
And there's a, that the ideathat it can be different and
that's when people feel reallylike, you just don't get me.
And now that friendship may besevered and I just don't want
(05:07):
that to happen to anyone.
Right, right.
But so there's a lot of ways toget around that.
Yeah, and I think that's one ofthe things in the book that we
talk, that I talk about is tomake, don't make that mistake.
Don't compare.
Just be there for them in theirgrief.
And don't, even though you wannafeel like I, I understand you
really don't.
Mm-hmm.
(05:27):
You can understand in anotherway, but not in a comparison.
Really, really like what you'resaying in terms of that
comparison piece.
How do we take it from it beingabout us?
To move the needle to make itabout being about them?
Or how do we, yeah.
How do we do that?
(05:48):
Or is that important?
I think it's incrediblyimportant.
'cause it's not about you atall.
Mm-hmm.
Well, the only way it reallytends to be about, um, the
support person is what kind ofperson do you wanna be?
What kind of friend do you wannabe?
What kind of, what kind of bossdo you wanna be?
What kind of neighbor do youwanna be?
That is the only place it reallyhas to do with you is the do
unto others reflection.
(06:10):
Love, love that.
Besides that, it really has todo with honoring and respecting,
gonna honor the per the person'slife that passed.
And that has nothing to do with,with, with your life or your
discomfort or your confusion andbeing, um, I'm respectful of
what the wishes and the familymember, um, friend or colleague
(06:32):
expects to do.
By that maybe you have acolleague at work who's, someone
has passed, but they're not,they're of a different religious
sect and you don't understandwhat to do.
Fair.
You still have to, maybe theyhave, maybe they're lucky
because they have a um,background, which tells them
they're going to grieve for acertain amount of time, or they
(06:52):
get certain amount of days, orthey have to do certain
protocols, which in America andmany Western cultures, we've
lost that, which is why we're soconfused and need help.
How do you respect those, thewishes of the mourner and be
honorable of the griever?
Both of those things need totake you out of your comfort
zone.
Mm-hmm.
And you should be really proudto do that.
(07:16):
Hmm.
You should be like, I'm gonna,this is gonna be good.
I'm gonna be the best person Ican be.
That I love, love that.
The two ways that I think aboutit.
Yeah.
Really, really love that.
Um, I.
It, it, it's not something thatpeople normally practice either,
is it?
(07:38):
Well, not here.
They don't, there are no, thereare some countries that are
pretty lucky where they have,you know, their ethnic
background and geographicbackground cause them to have
similar, uh, rituals andceremonies that the entire
neighborhood, city, country.
They all do.
They res and they respect, sothat expectation has been set
(07:59):
out for them.
Right?
In today's world, that's thosecountries and those areas are
pretty far and few in between.
Now we have multicultural, wehave after CO where people just
stopped having anything, right?
What do we do?
We have, you know, millennialswho yeah, do this.
(08:24):
And will not go, go, oh, I needto get a card.
You know, which they're, theyoften can be kind of emotionally
detached.
Right.
So we've, we have so manydifferent varieties of what
people could do.
Right.
We don't really know what to do.
Yes.
And having those toolbox ofsaying, here's some options,
make perfect, make you a betterperson and have better
(08:45):
relationships.
'cause it's gonna happen.
Right.
You can't get around thesethings.
Right, exactly.
Because if you do nothing.
That's doing something.
If you do something that's doingsomething correct, it is if you
do nothing.
Yeah.
Almost everyone I've ever spokento Yeah.
Said they know who didn't showup.
Mm-hmm.
(09:06):
You think they won't miss me?
I do.
Yeah.
Um, and that is probably, Ithink, one of the most selfish
things you can do.
I mean, if you're not gonna showup for something.
Or if they do have a, um, acelebration of life, a memorial
service, any kind of personceremony, and you knew that
person, you better have a prettybad stomach flu with a doctor's
(09:29):
note.
Yeah.
Because yeah, right.
I know folks that have said,well, I just can't be around
dead people, so I can't go atany of those things.
I'm like, well, it really isabout you.
Yeah.
And how and how do you knowthey're gonna have an open
casket?
How come you can't go over here?
You don't have to do that.
Right.
So it, they use it as an excuse,just not to be supportive, I
(09:52):
think.
And I've seen so many people, Ihave to say in my, what keeps
the bills on?
I mean, how, I mean what paysthe bills, keeps lights on.
Yeah.
Is.
You know, I have a, I have a,um, a med spa I do every day.
I take care of people's skin andI do all the aging things,
mostly red dots, barnacles,veins, and that means we are
(10:16):
sitting in a room mm-hmm.
For probably 35 minutes to anhour.
Just me and one other person.
And I'll have these clients aswe get older, these clients,
they become long-term clients.
And because my clients, well,many of them will know that I've
had an exceptional amount ofdeath in my family.
Mm-hmm.
Um, when they have a passing, itgives them an opportunity.
(10:39):
We call it the chair of truth.
They'll come in and say, I'llsay, you know how I knew your
mom had, had, had passed, youknow, a month or a couple months
ago?
How, how's everything?
Oh my goodness.
You wouldn't believe.
I would say 85% of the time, thefirst thing they say is, oh,
guess what happened?
Oh no.
You know what happened?
You know what someone did, youknow what my sister-in-law did?
(11:00):
You know, someone showed up.
Can you believe this guy?
And it's always this complaint,oh, almost always of things that
have gone wrong that they didn'texpect.
People would've acted orresponded in a certain way.
And it really does stick withpeople.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so having so many of theseconversations.
Dozens and dozens over the yearsfor sure.
(11:23):
Uh, we just needed to have atoolbox mm-hmm.
For people to pull out differenti different opportunities and
just ways to make it smootherand easier for them.
Right.
It's amazing how the memoryreally picks those things out,
and you never wanna be thatperson.
Hmm.
That they're thinking about thatthey're gonna tell later you
(11:43):
about, right?
Oh yeah.
Did Jimmy marry that girl thatshe wore that Trampy dress to
Uhuh Aunt Sue's funeral And sheOh yeah.
They got married three yearsago.
Oh, so he married the Trampyone.
She's gonna be remembered.
It's a moment.
You don't wanna be, you don'twanna be the person that sucks
the life or the energy.
(12:04):
Ah.
And makes the spotlight on you,right.
Uh, so, so, so good.
Okay, so now my mind is reeling.
What do we do?
How, how do we get thisinformation?
You mentioned about a toolbox.
How do we find our toolbox?
Well, the toolbox that I'vewritten yes, is a little, a
(12:27):
little guide called what not todo at funerals, you know, at.
So it's a way to perfect,protect you from eternal
embarrassment.
And it's on Amazon, it's onlyabout 60 pages, and it's written
to be quick and punchy andmemorable because if you can get
it quickly and you can downloadit on, on a candle, then you can
(12:49):
yeah, can guide it, go throughit, send it to a, um, a family
member or a loved one and say,here's some ideas.
Please don't let your kids screwthis up.
Right.
And come out shining greatly.
But it's it's way they can getit quick and they'll remember it
and this way they'll share it.
Mm, yeah.
And this way, and, and that wasthe most important thing, was to
(13:10):
be able to have these quick,punchy tools mm-hmm.
Where they can flip through andfeel like they have it under
control.
Mm-hmm.
Now I have some options Rightnow, I'm not gonna be too
awkward and now if I see someoneelse doing something, yes.
I can help cover for them.
Right?
It all becomes aboutrelationships.
'cause this is one where you canreally build new, build longer
(13:33):
lasting relationships becauseyou showed up in a way that was
honoring and respectful and youhelped other people love that.
Yeah.
They, that's, that's very,that's the ultimate kind thing
to do when someone is of courselooking, people are going
through things that are reallydifficult.
Mm-hmm.
So, so it's pretty easy, butrelationships.
(13:53):
So how can somebody even repaira relationship after making,
let's say, a funeral faux pa orfalling short of a griever's
expectations?
There's a couple of ways you cando this, and it's so.
Really, it's very easy to do.
Yay.
We like ease of all.
Just own it.
Just own it.
(14:13):
Just own it.
You know?
We all, we all screw up.
Just own it.
Let, and if they get upset,that's okay too.
Yeah.
Let's say, and here's a, I mean,there's a couple quick examples
being like, yeah, funeralhappens all the time.
People get nervous.
Um, I had someone say they werein the, they were in the pew and
they're.
(14:34):
Their aunt, the sister of theiruncle that had died was giving a
very heartfelt eulogy and theystarted talking a memory of
their uncle doing somethingfunny and they started laughing
and they got the evil eye andthey're mortified.
You just have to walk, walkright up to her afterwards and
say, mm-hmm.
Always remember it's therelationship.
(14:55):
Yes.
And I can't remember her nameand, and, uh, I'm so sorry for
laughing.
We were talking about UncleJoe's.
At Easter and every time he putthat jelly bean up his nose, and
I wonder if he still has a jellybean up his nose right now and
we love him so much and all.
And so now you're thinking ofit's about him.
It's about the life and lovethat he gave.
Right?
(15:16):
You weren't joking aboutsomeone's hair.
You go up and apologize.
Tell him how much you love that,that person and that you love
them.
And hug and that's it.
Yeah, it's over.
Yeah.
They know it wasn't about them.
If you didn't show, and I had afriend who I thought would show
and she didn't show.
She dropped off some food the ithe day after my son died and
(15:39):
she didn't show up again and shewas one of my best friends.
And she has never forgotten hisbirthday.
She's never forgotten a bigChristmas.
She's, every time we see her,she'll remind me of him years
later.
She's one of the few people thatsays, that, still thinks about
him and thinks about hisbirthday.
I.
Thinks about, um, that I'm gonnaremember his birthday.
(16:02):
No one does that.
So she wasn't there in themoment, but she's been there in
the long haul.
So if you thought, wow, later onI've read Barb's book and I've
realized, wow, maybe this is whythey never really talked to me
so much anymore.
You know, I thought I was justgiving them space or I didn't
know what to do, but I did dropoff food.
But now Barb doesn't, now shedoesn't talk to me anymore, will
(16:24):
show up.
Mm-hmm.
Memories.
Mm-hmm.
Keep that person alive and it'ssomeone we love and anyone who
ever brings up my brother, orthere were dog stories we talk
about our dogs had passed,someone goes, this is a way to
reconnect and regrow arelationship that might feel
like it was burnt to ashes.
(16:45):
But there's always things thatcan grow from that.
And memories and kindnesscontinually is fantastic.
You know, that's, and then thelast one is probably.
You know, if you have saidsomething that you realize
later, I shouldn't have said it.
Mm-hmm.
You don't always know what tosay.
(17:06):
Right.
Thing I find one issue I havewith Grievers mm-hmm.
We get, we get, we don't have alot of forgiveness sometimes for
people who just don't knowthey're doing the best they can.
They, they wanna say how you'redoing.
Mm-hmm.
And the, and the griever all ofa sudden.
Of the level of grief they'regoing through gets really angry
(17:27):
and says, what the hell?
Yeah.
What do you mean?
How am I doing?
I'm doing terrible.
What do you think?
Oh my gosh.
What do you do?
Right?
You ask them, you say, I just,this is a great line.
Just let them know.
I've been thinking about you.
And I know you're going througha hard time and I don't know how
to check in with you.
Could you tell me what to do?
Hmm.
(17:48):
If I've been thinking about youand I'm worried about you, I'm
concerned about, I know it'sdifficult.
I just don't, what's the bestway I can check in?
It's all about your heart andyour relationship.
Your words weren't the wordsthey needed.
The words frustrated them.
You came at the wrong time, andthey slammed the door in your
face.
'cause they didn't know want.
They didn't want you to seetheir ugly cry.
Right.
Or give them, yeah, just go.
(18:10):
Let me try again.
Mm-hmm.
Put your big boy pants on, putyour boots on and go, I'm gonna
pursue this again with anapology because I care about
them.
Right.
Let them know I'm caring.
Tell me what to do.
Mm-hmm.
I may have not said the rightwords, but it was, but I just am
worried about you.
That's it.
Yeah.
I may have showed up with thewrong time, but I'm really
(18:31):
worried I'm gonna come back andjust mow your lawn when you're
not there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's real quick.
It's a two step.
Yeah, and I guarantee you, I canpretty much guarantee you I, I
know I say pretty much, but Ifeel like almost could say
guarantee if you double show upfor someone, yeah, you'll be the
(18:51):
star.
You have now pushed everythingaside and said, I'm here for
you.
If you're in the ugly, I'm herefor you.
If it's not appropriate, I willstill press in because you
matter more to me and therelationship matters more to me
then, you know, screw ups.
Yeah.
And aren't you the biggerperson?
Mm-hmm.
Aren't you a cool person?
Yeah.
I couldn't think of anythingless selfish.
(19:13):
Yeah.
Than putting your pride asideand trying again.
Yeah.
I want all those people in mylife.
For sure, a hundred percent.
The people who can takethemselves out of the equation
and do what you've been talkingabout.
Where's your kindness?
Where's your compassion?
Where is your ability to put youaside and be there for them?
(19:39):
What is it they need and wherecan you meet them at that right?
Absolutely.
And they may not know.
Like, Hmm.
Yeah.
And so expecting people to know,and this is a great little thing
about the book, let's say youscrewed up.
Here's some ideas you can get tofix it.
And you'd be like, oh man, maybethat wasn't as big a lifetime
screw up as I thought.
Nice.
That's a good thing.
(20:00):
Yeah.
And because people don't know.
Yeah.
I mean, I can tell you from,from the experience and from
the, the many groups that I'vebeen a part of, of Grievers is
that, um.
We've had grief that we mo movethrough fairly quickly.
Yep.
Um, though we never really getrid of it, we just, it doesn't
(20:20):
bring us down as much anymore.
Right.
But as long as you love someone,as long as you miss someone,
you're gonna grieve a little allthe time.
Mm-hmm.
You just get comfortable withit.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Just part of it.
Right.
Uh, just part of life.
Um, not knowing it can be reallyscary.
Right.
Yeah.
It could be, it can be reallyscary and you might take that
(20:42):
out Yeah.
On, on the people around you.
Mm-hmm.
And to just give yourself abreak.
Right.
You know, you've never been thisperson before and you've never
been experienced these thingsbefore, and it's, and it's
normal to feel awkward for both,both parties.
Right, right.
Yeah.
(21:02):
And it's okay to feel a little,a little lost.
It's totally okay.
And if you have some tools tosay, Hey, I'm, other people are
obviously lost too.
Yeah.
And taking that expectation ofoff yourself, right.
Um, then you all end up muchbetter people.
Right.
And then the next time aroundit's easier.
(21:23):
'cause I hate to say it, youknow, as we get older, these are
gonna come more often and thenyou become a pro pretty quick.
Yeah, exactly.
You mentioned about the bookbeing on Amazon.
I know for sure we've gonna putall that in the show notes, but
if you can tell us the exacttitle again of the toolbox that
(21:45):
we need to purchase.
We were talking earlier beforewe started and said, you know
how when we were having childrenand there was the book, what to
Expect When You're Expecting,and everybody had that.
I.
I probably, if I look up on mybookshelf, I probably still have
it up here.
We need to have the toolbox thatyou have created exactly the
(22:08):
same way it needs to be in everyhousehold because it should.
This is part of life isdeparture and death.
It is and, and learning how tobe there for others is amazing
because you set an expectationand so it's what not to do at
funerals.
There you go, what not to do atfuneral.
I mean, it's great to have, it'sjust great to have it around for
(22:30):
generations.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's amazing.
It, there are a lot of punchyanecdotes in it really for a
younger generation.
Yeah.
Um, because honestly, even, eventhough everybody can kind of use
this.
The under 35 group really needsit.
Yeah.
I think they're, they're evenmore lost.
So it's just great to havearound, and I'm starting to work
(22:51):
with some funeral homes to helpput, put it out there.
Nice.
But it just makes life so mucheasier when you go, okay, I know
what to do.
Yeah.
You know, I know how to be, notto be, not to be afraid.
Right.
Yeah.
Uh, I mean, we, we, as we getolder, we get less, hopefully we
get less afraid of life.
Mm-hmm.
(23:11):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But that doesn't always meanthat we become better people.
Right?
Yeah.
Very good.
And so this is a way maybe to doboth, right?
Because it doesn't always meanthat the per one person who
shows up at the memorial servicewho's crying louder than anybody
else because they're a dramaqueen, and they have to be the
(23:32):
center of attention, Uhhuh,maybe you have someone in the,
in your immediate family thatwalks over and goes.
Let's go over here.
Can I bring you?
Yeah.
Obviously you seems a little tooupset to be here.
Yeah.
Why don't I take you into thebathroom?
She'll be quite quiet like this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you need a person like that.
And then if you can laugh aboutit ahead of time.
(23:55):
Mm-hmm.
Know they're gonna show up.
Right.
Have a game plan.
Yep.
Everything goes smoother.
Right.
And I love what you're sayingtoo, because.
Whether you know they're gonnashow up or not, there might be
somebody else that comes in withthe same profile, the same thing
that you don't even know whothey are, but you need to
(24:15):
circumvent to help change theenergy in that room so that it
is a supportive environment.
So you can take the informationin this incredible, easy to read
toolbox that you've created, andyou've got it in your back
pocket for.
All kinds of scenarios.
(24:36):
Right.
Oh, that's so true.
Absolutely.
A lot of these, a lot of thesewill work in a, in many
different situations.
Right.
You know, I think we are just a,we're just a people that have
often forgot about the basics.
Yeah.
There it is.
And we overcomplicate things.
Then we end up lying.
(24:56):
And you know, maybe a little fibor whatever.
We're trying to make ourselveslook better and really people
like us when we don't look sogood.
Yeah.
People love our houses whenthey're messy.
Yeah.
And they love us when our hairisn't right.
And if we miss a button, theylove us even more.
And if you don't zip up yourpants, your friends forever.
Yeah.
But people love it to know thatyou're normal.
(25:18):
Yeah.
And so when these are normalthings, they're normal mistakes.
Yeah.
But they're all survivable.
Right, exactly.
We just can't take ourselves tooseriously though.
These are very serioussituations.
Of course, yeah.
People will get very upset.
It's also a book people shouldkind of read before a, a
(25:39):
service.
Yeah.
Yep.
Good point.
Sometimes you have an extendedfamily, uh, you know, cousins
and and whatnot, and they maynot be in the receiving line if
they do a receiving line or theymay not be a part of the eternal
life, or Yep.
Sometimes it's just the frontrow.
It's nice to have someone who'sa secondary, um, or tertiary
family member.
Yes.
(25:59):
To be a watcher for things.
Maybe someone coming in late.
Right.
You know, uh, someone who's gotchildren maybe start crying or
love the echo in the church ifit's or, or, sure.
Like not now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Someone to help manage some ofthese things that can happen.
(26:20):
Right.
And just to help things move alittle smoother.
And I've done that.
I've done that at, at, at acouple of, of mm-hmm.
Services.
Yeah.
Someone come in and.
You see that it's making someonemore upset.
Right.
They don't know what to say ordo.
They don't know how to get awayfrom this person.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, and inevitably the personwill try to pull up a chair next
(26:42):
to them and wanna sit down.
You're like, oh, you're justmaking it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Read the room.
Read the room.
I've got it.
Yep.
I know there's people who just.
But, and, and absolutely.
I mean, that's what makes theworld go round.
However, the tips and strategiesthat you have give you an
opportunity to see how you canbe that support.
(27:05):
How can you help make this, um,less stressful?
How can you impact in a way thatmakes everything go more
smoothly in whatever way thatcan be?
How are gonna show up?
Exactly.
And people don't know how toshow up even when they write a
card.
I find out the two biggestquestions that I get Okay.
(27:28):
Are, what can I say other thanI'm sorry.
Like, I just wanna say, I'msorry.
I wanna say I'm sorry.
And people on the other sidesay, I heard that so many times.
I don't wanna say I'm sorry.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and, and do I really have togo?
How can I, how can I get out ofgoing to an event?
And that's, that's easy.
You can't Yep.
Yep.
(27:48):
So you can't No.
Go.
Yep.
Yep.
There's your answer.
Summit flu, hospital, caraccidents.
You gotta, you gotta becompletely incomp.
Incapacitated.
Or you better just, you know,change your name.
Yeah.
Facebook page.
Get a new, get a new zip code.
Get a new postal code.
Yep.
But I, I think in, if I couldtake all the options that I have
(28:10):
in the book of things to say,and there's even more, I'll
probably add a few more on, Ibelieve.
When if, do you wanna findsomething other than, I'm sorry.
Say anything about the person,if it was a person at work or
really Miss Joe at work, he wasalways a good, it was always a
good joke.
You know, I always had a greatjoke for the day.
Yeah.
Something personal.
(28:30):
That's all it matters.
Yeah.
You know, I'm hurting every timeI think about it.
That's not, it's not acomparison.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
The first thing that comes tomind is really the best thing.
Mm-hmm.
As long as it's not like, Iwonder how they died or, you
know, something appropriate.
The first thing, people alwaysforget the first thing because
(28:52):
it just doesn't seem, it seemstoo real, right?
It seems personal because itmakes them sad.
I was gonna say it, it probablymakes them connected to their
sadness, which is what we talkedabout in the beginning.
It's not about you, it's aboutthe other person.
But you're reframing that alltogether to help it make a
connection so they can hear theimpact that person has had in
(29:17):
your life.
Right?
Yes.
If you say, I'm, you know, I'mhurting every time I think of
you guys.
Mm-hmm.
And now you're sharing in theirgrief and they know you.
Yeah.
That, that.
You care for them.
Yeah.
That's a supportive, perfect wayof saying it.
I love it.
So anything like that, you've, Ican't stop thinking about about
you right now.
I, I'm so sad and I'll continueto think about you forever.
(29:41):
Yeah.
Boom.
Yeah.
The first thing in your mind isalways the best.
And it's surprises to me howmany people don't think that's
what they should write.
Yeah.
So, great.
Great.
Information.
It's about the relationship.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I love it.
I love it.
(30:02):
Thank you so much, Barbara, forthis conversation was we don't
mess around here.
There's so much more.
So there's so many goofy thingsthat happen and so it's, you
know, it's, it's a fun quicklittle read.
It's, you know, the what not todo at funerals is, it's really,
(30:23):
I think it's.
It's getting more and morepopular and the conversations
are fun.
Yeah, and, and honestly, I.
The fact that you have gonethrough so much loss in your
life and you are able to helpothers show up for other people
who are going throughchallenging times with grief and
(30:47):
death is so, so valuable, and Iam so grateful.
Our paths have crossed to havethis snippet conversation.
We will.
Come back together again.
I know it.
I know there's other thingscoming in the near future that
you are busy creating andcrafting right now, because I
love your ideas of make itsimple.
(31:09):
Don't make this such a big deal,but do it properly.
Yeah.
Right.
I'm, I have to tell you, Ican't, when someone says, you
look at, um, you know, here'sthree things you should say
every day to make your lifeeasier, and then you look down
at the corner of the littlevideo and it says 45 minutes
click.
If, why can't you tell me thatin five minutes?
It's only three words.
(31:30):
Just give me the information.
Yeah.
And let me start in on it.
Yeah.
I, I am, I hate to say it, andmaybe your colleagues will, will
realize this.
I'm an American, we don't readinstructions until we can't find
all the schools.
I just, I just know how to doit.
Just lemme jump in and start,gimme the, you know, the tools
that I need with Yeah.
(31:53):
Without the drama and I can usethem to the best of my ability.
And it's quick and simple andthen life goes on hopefully
better.
Exactly.
And if you need more, you canfind out how to reach you.
Right?
Like if they need moreinformation or absolutely need
to ask you specific questions,you can go to bohart.com.
Yeah.
(32:14):
Um.
The information's also, youknow, what not to do at Funerals
Loss Amazon, but also@bohart.comwhere I'll, um, start have some
other books and presentationinformation and things like
that.
Nice.
They can find, if they have anyquestions, they can always email
me or contact me through there,and I'd be thrilled to get back
to them.
Perfect.
Good or bad, I can't wait.
Exactly.
(32:35):
Exactly.
Thank you so much for your timetoday, Barbara.
It's always a pleasure to seeyour smiling face on the other
side of our screen.
Okay.
Make sure that you follow Thriveafter 45 so you don't miss.
Any of these nuggets of goldthat are shared, and we have
(32:55):
such a variety of guests, it hasbeen an honor and a privilege to
share space today with Barbaraand her wisdom behind being real
around death and grief, andsupporting people to move in the
way that is best for them.
It's not about you.
(33:15):
How could you show up andsupport others?
In their grief.
Take care of yourselves.
Make sure you do something foryou by you because of you today
and every day, and we will seeyou on the next show.
Goodbye everyone.
Hello and welcome to ThriveAfter 45, the podcast where we
redefine what's possible inmidlife.
I'm Denise.
Drink your midlife renewal coachhere to help you embrace your
power, purpose, and potential.
This is your space to let go ofguilt, navigate transitions,
rediscover joy and thrive foryou by you.
(00:22):
Because of you, we are.
Honored.
Honored and it is a trueprivilege to introduce and
welcome Barbara Bowman to thriveafter 5 45 today.
Barbara is a deeplycompassionate author and speaker
whose work on modern grief.
Has been shaped by a lifetime ofprofound personal loss and a
(00:43):
calling to help others feelseen, understood, and less alone
in the midst of it with graceand honesty, she offers guidance
through the quiet discomfort somany of us feel around death and
grief, helping people find theright words, meaningful ways to
show up.
And space to simply be presentwhen someone is hurting.
(01:07):
Her insight is tender, timely,and filled with hard earned
wisdom.
And we're truly, truly gratefulto have you, Barbara, here with
us on Thrive after 45.
So great to have you here today.
Oh, well, no, my pleasure ismine.
Thank you so much.
That was that.
That was a beautiful.
(01:28):
How grateful I'm for thosewords.
That was very nice of you tosay.
You're more than all and I won'tdeny any of it, but nope.
And, and nor should you, mydear, nor should you.
I love your energy.
I have to say that right fromthe, uh, from the get go.
As soon as I hear about griefand death and passing, a lot of
(01:50):
us go into the sadness of all ofthat, and we're.
Going to explore verychallenging conversations that
can happen around grief anddeath and dying, but we're not
gonna do it in such a way thatit pulls all of us down because
you have got so much.
(02:14):
Incredible, um, guidance andwisdom behind you on how to help
people find words.
When words seem to be lostduring times of grief and
sorrow.
What happens or what happens aspeople.
(02:34):
Try to digest and figure outwhat's the right thing to say.
Have you noticed anything that'skind of common that happens with
people?
Oh, sure.
Yeah.
There's, there's a couple ofvery common situations that
happen.
If one is not familiar withgrief, they haven't really lost
any, anyone in their life yet.
They'll often completely pullaway, we'll, I'll just deal with
(02:57):
them when, when they feelbetter, the awkwardness around
what not to do.
They become so self-focused.
Ah, that they just separate, notrealizing that that's probably
the worst thing you can do.
Mm-hmm.
And then the second thing thatis often really very common and
often causes mistakes or inrelationships that have to be
(03:21):
mended, is the comparison.
You know, I lost.
My grandmother, so I know howyou must feel that you lost your
son or your spouse.
No, you don't.
Yeah, no, you don't.
The comparison, grief makespeople feel like you don't
understand my grief for what I'mgoing through.
(03:41):
Because even though I do believethat there, there's a hard line
between people who have grievedand people who haven't grieved.
Okay.
With personal loss, I mean likenot, you know, grieving a job
or.
Different, right.
Kind of personal loss that is anexperience that you now have in
your life that you'll never havehad before you, so you can't
really explain it to someone.
(04:02):
Right.
But the secondary misconmisconception happens when the
relationship of what's lost isso different to each person.
Yes.
So when, my example, if you hada grandmother that died and
you're younger and she wasalways very elderly and older,
and then she was ill and youexpected it.
That goes along the traditionallines of life and death and
(04:26):
you're, you're, you've alwayswaited for the step and you're
sad because you miss, you're,you know, you're Meemaw, um,
right.
But that, that depth is nowherein comparison to a daily
relationship you have withsomeone who may have died
spontaneously through,especially a younger person,
through a drug overdose or asuicide car accident.
(04:47):
These are so much moretraumatic.
And more deeply felt right.
Um, especially to someone who'sin that immediate family.
And there's a, that the ideathat it can be different and
that's when people feel reallylike, you just don't get me.
And now that friendship may besevered and I just don't want
(05:07):
that to happen to anyone.
Right, right.
But so there's a lot of ways toget around that.
Yeah, and I think that's one ofthe things in the book that we
talk, that I talk about is tomake, don't make that mistake.
Don't compare.
Just be there for them in theirgrief.
And don't, even though you wannafeel like I, I understand you
really don't.
Mm-hmm.
(05:27):
You can understand in anotherway, but not in a comparison.
Really, really like what you'resaying in terms of that
comparison piece.
How do we take it from it beingabout us?
To move the needle to make itabout being about them?
Or how do we, yeah.
How do we do that?
(05:48):
Or is that important?
I think it's incrediblyimportant.
'cause it's not about you atall.
Mm-hmm.
Well, the only way it reallytends to be about, um, the
support person is what kind ofperson do you wanna be?
What kind of friend do you wannabe?
What kind of, what kind of bossdo you wanna be?
What kind of neighbor do youwanna be?
That is the only place it reallyhas to do with you is the do
unto others reflection.
(06:10):
Love, love that.
Besides that, it really has todo with honoring and respecting,
gonna honor the per the person'slife that passed.
And that has nothing to do with,with, with your life or your
discomfort or your confusion andbeing, um, I'm respectful of
what the wishes and the familymember, um, friend or colleague
(06:32):
expects to do.
By that maybe you have acolleague at work who's, someone
has passed, but they're not,they're of a different religious
sect and you don't understandwhat to do.
Fair.
You still have to, maybe theyhave, maybe they're lucky
because they have a um,background, which tells them
they're going to grieve for acertain amount of time, or they
(06:52):
get certain amount of days, orthey have to do certain
protocols, which in America andmany Western cultures, we've
lost that, which is why we're soconfused and need help.
How do you respect those, thewishes of the mourner and be
honorable of the griever?
Both of those things need totake you out of your comfort
zone.
Mm-hmm.
And you should be really proudto do that.
(07:16):
Hmm.
You should be like, I'm gonna,this is gonna be good.
I'm gonna be the best person Ican be.
That I love, love that.
The two ways that I think aboutit.
Yeah.
Really, really love that.
Um, I.
It, it, it's not something thatpeople normally practice either,
is it?
(07:38):
Well, not here.
They don't, there are no, thereare some countries that are
pretty lucky where they have,you know, their ethnic
background and geographicbackground cause them to have
similar, uh, rituals andceremonies that the entire
neighborhood, city, country.
They all do.
They res and they respect, sothat expectation has been set
(07:59):
out for them.
Right?
In today's world, that's thosecountries and those areas are
pretty far and few in between.
Now we have multicultural, wehave after CO where people just
stopped having anything, right?
What do we do?
We have, you know, millennialswho yeah, do this.
(08:24):
And will not go, go, oh, I needto get a card.
You know, which they're, theyoften can be kind of emotionally
detached.
Right.
So we've, we have so manydifferent varieties of what
people could do.
Right.
We don't really know what to do.
Yes.
And having those toolbox ofsaying, here's some options,
make perfect, make you a betterperson and have better
(08:45):
relationships.
'cause it's gonna happen.
Right.
You can't get around thesethings.
Right, exactly.
Because if you do nothing.
That's doing something.
If you do something that's doingsomething correct, it is if you
do nothing.
Yeah.
Almost everyone I've ever spokento Yeah.
Said they know who didn't showup.
Mm-hmm.
(09:06):
You think they won't miss me?
I do.
Yeah.
Um, and that is probably, Ithink, one of the most selfish
things you can do.
I mean, if you're not gonna showup for something.
Or if they do have a, um, acelebration of life, a memorial
service, any kind of personceremony, and you knew that
person, you better have a prettybad stomach flu with a doctor's
(09:29):
note.
Yeah.
Because yeah, right.
I know folks that have said,well, I just can't be around
dead people, so I can't go atany of those things.
I'm like, well, it really isabout you.
Yeah.
And how and how do you knowthey're gonna have an open
casket?
How come you can't go over here?
You don't have to do that.
Right.
So it, they use it as an excuse,just not to be supportive, I
(09:52):
think.
And I've seen so many people, Ihave to say in my, what keeps
the bills on?
I mean, how, I mean what paysthe bills, keeps lights on.
Yeah.
Is.
You know, I have a, I have a,um, a med spa I do every day.
I take care of people's skin andI do all the aging things,
mostly red dots, barnacles,veins, and that means we are
(10:16):
sitting in a room mm-hmm.
For probably 35 minutes to anhour.
Just me and one other person.
And I'll have these clients aswe get older, these clients,
they become long-term clients.
And because my clients, well,many of them will know that I've
had an exceptional amount ofdeath in my family.
Mm-hmm.
Um, when they have a passing, itgives them an opportunity.
(10:39):
We call it the chair of truth.
They'll come in and say, I'llsay, you know how I knew your
mom had, had, had passed, youknow, a month or a couple months
ago?
How, how's everything?
Oh my goodness.
You wouldn't believe.
I would say 85% of the time, thefirst thing they say is, oh,
guess what happened?
Oh no.
You know what happened?
You know what someone did, youknow what my sister-in-law did?
(11:00):
You know, someone showed up.
Can you believe this guy?
And it's always this complaint,oh, almost always of things that
have gone wrong that they didn'texpect.
People would've acted orresponded in a certain way.
And it really does stick withpeople.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so having so many of theseconversations.
Dozens and dozens over the yearsfor sure.
(11:23):
Uh, we just needed to have atoolbox mm-hmm.
For people to pull out differenti different opportunities and
just ways to make it smootherand easier for them.
Right.
It's amazing how the memoryreally picks those things out,
and you never wanna be thatperson.
Hmm.
That they're thinking about thatthey're gonna tell later you
(11:43):
about, right?
Oh yeah.
Did Jimmy marry that girl thatshe wore that Trampy dress to
Uhuh Aunt Sue's funeral And sheOh yeah.
They got married three yearsago.
Oh, so he married the Trampyone.
She's gonna be remembered.
It's a moment.
You don't wanna be, you don'twanna be the person that sucks
the life or the energy.
(12:04):
Ah.
And makes the spotlight on you,right.
Uh, so, so, so good.
Okay, so now my mind is reeling.
What do we do?
How, how do we get thisinformation?
You mentioned about a toolbox.
How do we find our toolbox?
Well, the toolbox that I'vewritten yes, is a little, a
(12:27):
little guide called what not todo at funerals, you know, at.
So it's a way to perfect,protect you from eternal
embarrassment.
And it's on Amazon, it's onlyabout 60 pages, and it's written
to be quick and punchy andmemorable because if you can get
it quickly and you can downloadit on, on a candle, then you can
(12:49):
yeah, can guide it, go throughit, send it to a, um, a family
member or a loved one and say,here's some ideas.
Please don't let your kids screwthis up.
Right.
And come out shining greatly.
But it's it's way they can getit quick and they'll remember it
and this way they'll share it.
Mm, yeah.
And this way, and, and that wasthe most important thing, was to
(13:10):
be able to have these quick,punchy tools mm-hmm.
Where they can flip through andfeel like they have it under
control.
Mm-hmm.
Now I have some options Rightnow, I'm not gonna be too
awkward and now if I see someoneelse doing something, yes.
I can help cover for them.
Right?
It all becomes aboutrelationships.
'cause this is one where you canreally build new, build longer
(13:33):
lasting relationships becauseyou showed up in a way that was
honoring and respectful and youhelped other people love that.
Yeah.
They, that's, that's very,that's the ultimate kind thing
to do when someone is of courselooking, people are going
through things that are reallydifficult.
Mm-hmm.
So, so it's pretty easy, butrelationships.
(13:53):
So how can somebody even repaira relationship after making,
let's say, a funeral faux pa orfalling short of a griever's
expectations?
There's a couple of ways you cando this, and it's so.
Really, it's very easy to do.
Yay.
We like ease of all.
Just own it.
Just own it.
(14:13):
Just own it.
You know?
We all, we all screw up.
Just own it.
Let, and if they get upset,that's okay too.
Yeah.
Let's say, and here's a, I mean,there's a couple quick examples
being like, yeah, funeralhappens all the time.
People get nervous.
Um, I had someone say they werein the, they were in the pew and
they're.
(14:34):
Their aunt, the sister of theiruncle that had died was giving a
very heartfelt eulogy and theystarted talking a memory of
their uncle doing somethingfunny and they started laughing
and they got the evil eye andthey're mortified.
You just have to walk, walkright up to her afterwards and
say, mm-hmm.
Always remember it's therelationship.
(14:55):
Yes.
And I can't remember her nameand, and, uh, I'm so sorry for
laughing.
We were talking about UncleJoe's.
At Easter and every time he putthat jelly bean up his nose, and
I wonder if he still has a jellybean up his nose right now and
we love him so much and all.
And so now you're thinking ofit's about him.
It's about the life and lovethat he gave.
Right?
(15:16):
You weren't joking aboutsomeone's hair.
You go up and apologize.
Tell him how much you love that,that person and that you love
them.
And hug and that's it.
Yeah, it's over.
Yeah.
They know it wasn't about them.
If you didn't show, and I had afriend who I thought would show
and she didn't show.
She dropped off some food the ithe day after my son died and
(15:39):
she didn't show up again and shewas one of my best friends.
And she has never forgotten hisbirthday.
She's never forgotten a bigChristmas.
She's, every time we see her,she'll remind me of him years
later.
She's one of the few people thatsays, that, still thinks about
him and thinks about hisbirthday.
I.
Thinks about, um, that I'm gonnaremember his birthday.
(16:02):
No one does that.
So she wasn't there in themoment, but she's been there in
the long haul.
So if you thought, wow, later onI've read Barb's book and I've
realized, wow, maybe this is whythey never really talked to me
so much anymore.
You know, I thought I was justgiving them space or I didn't
know what to do, but I did dropoff food.
But now Barb doesn't, now shedoesn't talk to me anymore, will
(16:24):
show up.
Mm-hmm.
Memories.
Mm-hmm.
Keep that person alive and it'ssomeone we love and anyone who
ever brings up my brother, orthere were dog stories we talk
about our dogs had passed,someone goes, this is a way to
reconnect and regrow arelationship that might feel
like it was burnt to ashes.
(16:45):
But there's always things thatcan grow from that.
And memories and kindnesscontinually is fantastic.
You know, that's, and then thelast one is probably.
You know, if you have saidsomething that you realize
later, I shouldn't have said it.
Mm-hmm.
You don't always know what tosay.
(17:06):
Right.
Thing I find one issue I havewith Grievers mm-hmm.
We get, we get, we don't have alot of forgiveness sometimes for
people who just don't knowthey're doing the best they can.
They, they wanna say how you'redoing.
Mm-hmm.
And the, and the griever all ofa sudden.
Of the level of grief they'regoing through gets really angry
(17:27):
and says, what the hell?
Yeah.
What do you mean?
How am I doing?
I'm doing terrible.
What do you think?
Oh my gosh.
What do you do?
Right?
You ask them, you say, I just,this is a great line.
Just let them know.
I've been thinking about you.
And I know you're going througha hard time and I don't know how
to check in with you.
Could you tell me what to do?
Hmm.
(17:48):
If I've been thinking about youand I'm worried about you, I'm
concerned about, I know it'sdifficult.
I just don't, what's the bestway I can check in?
It's all about your heart andyour relationship.
Your words weren't the wordsthey needed.
The words frustrated them.
You came at the wrong time, andthey slammed the door in your
face.
'cause they didn't know want.
They didn't want you to seetheir ugly cry.
Right.
Or give them, yeah, just go.
(18:10):
Let me try again.
Mm-hmm.
Put your big boy pants on, putyour boots on and go, I'm gonna
pursue this again with anapology because I care about
them.
Right.
Let them know I'm caring.
Tell me what to do.
Mm-hmm.
I may have not said the rightwords, but it was, but I just am
worried about you.
That's it.
Yeah.
I may have showed up with thewrong time, but I'm really
(18:31):
worried I'm gonna come back andjust mow your lawn when you're
not there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's real quick.
It's a two step.
Yeah, and I guarantee you, I canpretty much guarantee you I, I
know I say pretty much, but Ifeel like almost could say
guarantee if you double show upfor someone, yeah, you'll be the
(18:51):
star.
You have now pushed everythingaside and said, I'm here for
you.
If you're in the ugly, I'm herefor you.
If it's not appropriate, I willstill press in because you
matter more to me and therelationship matters more to me
then, you know, screw ups.
Yeah.
And aren't you the biggerperson?
Mm-hmm.
Aren't you a cool person?
Yeah.
I couldn't think of anythingless selfish.
(19:13):
Yeah.
Than putting your pride asideand trying again.
Yeah.
I want all those people in mylife.
For sure, a hundred percent.
The people who can takethemselves out of the equation
and do what you've been talkingabout.
Where's your kindness?
Where's your compassion?
Where is your ability to put youaside and be there for them?
(19:39):
What is it they need and wherecan you meet them at that right?
Absolutely.
And they may not know.
Like, Hmm.
Yeah.
And so expecting people to know,and this is a great little thing
about the book, let's say youscrewed up.
Here's some ideas you can get tofix it.
And you'd be like, oh man, maybethat wasn't as big a lifetime
screw up as I thought.
Nice.
That's a good thing.
(20:00):
Yeah.
And because people don't know.
Yeah.
I mean, I can tell you from,from the experience and from
the, the many groups that I'vebeen a part of, of Grievers is
that, um.
We've had grief that we mo movethrough fairly quickly.
Yep.
Um, though we never really getrid of it, we just, it doesn't
(20:20):
bring us down as much anymore.
Right.
But as long as you love someone,as long as you miss someone,
you're gonna grieve a little allthe time.
Mm-hmm.
You just get comfortable withit.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Just part of it.
Right.
Uh, just part of life.
Um, not knowing it can be reallyscary.
Right.
Yeah.
It could be, it can be reallyscary and you might take that
(20:42):
out Yeah.
On, on the people around you.
Mm-hmm.
And to just give yourself abreak.
Right.
You know, you've never been thisperson before and you've never
been experienced these thingsbefore, and it's, and it's
normal to feel awkward for both,both parties.
Right, right.
Yeah.
(21:02):
And it's okay to feel a little,a little lost.
It's totally okay.
And if you have some tools tosay, Hey, I'm, other people are
obviously lost too.
Yeah.
And taking that expectation ofoff yourself, right.
Um, then you all end up muchbetter people.
Right.
And then the next time aroundit's easier.
(21:23):
'cause I hate to say it, youknow, as we get older, these are
gonna come more often and thenyou become a pro pretty quick.
Yeah, exactly.
You mentioned about the bookbeing on Amazon.
I know for sure we've gonna putall that in the show notes, but
if you can tell us the exacttitle again of the toolbox that
(21:45):
we need to purchase.
We were talking earlier beforewe started and said, you know
how when we were having childrenand there was the book, what to
Expect When You're Expecting,and everybody had that.
I.
I probably, if I look up on mybookshelf, I probably still have
it up here.
We need to have the toolbox thatyou have created exactly the
(22:08):
same way it needs to be in everyhousehold because it should.
This is part of life isdeparture and death.
It is and, and learning how tobe there for others is amazing
because you set an expectationand so it's what not to do at
funerals.
There you go, what not to do atfuneral.
I mean, it's great to have, it'sjust great to have it around for
(22:30):
generations.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's amazing.
It, there are a lot of punchyanecdotes in it really for a
younger generation.
Yeah.
Um, because honestly, even, eventhough everybody can kind of use
this.
The under 35 group really needsit.
Yeah.
I think they're, they're evenmore lost.
So it's just great to havearound, and I'm starting to work
(22:51):
with some funeral homes to helpput, put it out there.
Nice.
But it just makes life so mucheasier when you go, okay, I know
what to do.
Yeah.
You know, I know how to be, notto be, not to be afraid.
Right.
Yeah.
Uh, I mean, we, we, as we getolder, we get less, hopefully we
get less afraid of life.
Mm-hmm.
(23:11):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But that doesn't always meanthat we become better people.
Right?
Yeah.
Very good.
And so this is a way maybe to doboth, right?
Because it doesn't always meanthat the per one person who
shows up at the memorial servicewho's crying louder than anybody
else because they're a dramaqueen, and they have to be the
(23:32):
center of attention, Uhhuh,maybe you have someone in the,
in your immediate family thatwalks over and goes.
Let's go over here.
Can I bring you?
Yeah.
Obviously you seems a little tooupset to be here.
Yeah.
Why don't I take you into thebathroom?
She'll be quite quiet like this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you need a person like that.
And then if you can laugh aboutit ahead of time.
(23:55):
Mm-hmm.
Know they're gonna show up.
Right.
Have a game plan.
Yep.
Everything goes smoother.
Right.
And I love what you're sayingtoo, because.
Whether you know they're gonnashow up or not, there might be
somebody else that comes in withthe same profile, the same thing
that you don't even know whothey are, but you need to
(24:15):
circumvent to help change theenergy in that room so that it
is a supportive environment.
So you can take the informationin this incredible, easy to read
toolbox that you've created, andyou've got it in your back
pocket for.
All kinds of scenarios.
(24:36):
Right.
Oh, that's so true.
Absolutely.
A lot of these, a lot of thesewill work in a, in many
different situations.
Right.
You know, I think we are just a,we're just a people that have
often forgot about the basics.
Yeah.
There it is.
And we overcomplicate things.
Then we end up lying.
(24:56):
And you know, maybe a little fibor whatever.
We're trying to make ourselveslook better and really people
like us when we don't look sogood.
Yeah.
People love our houses whenthey're messy.
Yeah.
And they love us when our hairisn't right.
And if we miss a button, theylove us even more.
And if you don't zip up yourpants, your friends forever.
Yeah.
But people love it to know thatyou're normal.
(25:18):
Yeah.
And so when these are normalthings, they're normal mistakes.
Yeah.
But they're all survivable.
Right, exactly.
We just can't take ourselves tooseriously though.
These are very serioussituations.
Of course, yeah.
People will get very upset.
It's also a book people shouldkind of read before a, a
(25:39):
service.
Yeah.
Yep.
Good point.
Sometimes you have an extendedfamily, uh, you know, cousins
and and whatnot, and they maynot be in the receiving line if
they do a receiving line or theymay not be a part of the eternal
life, or Yep.
Sometimes it's just the frontrow.
It's nice to have someone who'sa secondary, um, or tertiary
family member.
Yes.
(25:59):
To be a watcher for things.
Maybe someone coming in late.
Right.
You know, uh, someone who's gotchildren maybe start crying or
love the echo in the church ifit's or, or, sure.
Like not now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Someone to help manage some ofthese things that can happen.
(26:20):
Right.
And just to help things move alittle smoother.
And I've done that.
I've done that at, at, at acouple of, of mm-hmm.
Services.
Yeah.
Someone come in and.
You see that it's making someonemore upset.
Right.
They don't know what to say ordo.
They don't know how to get awayfrom this person.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, and inevitably the personwill try to pull up a chair next
(26:42):
to them and wanna sit down.
You're like, oh, you're justmaking it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Read the room.
Read the room.
I've got it.
Yep.
I know there's people who just.
But, and, and absolutely.
I mean, that's what makes theworld go round.
However, the tips and strategiesthat you have give you an
opportunity to see how you canbe that support.
(27:05):
How can you help make this, um,less stressful?
How can you impact in a way thatmakes everything go more
smoothly in whatever way thatcan be?
How are gonna show up?
Exactly.
And people don't know how toshow up even when they write a
card.
I find out the two biggestquestions that I get Okay.
(27:28):
Are, what can I say other thanI'm sorry.
Like, I just wanna say, I'msorry.
I wanna say I'm sorry.
And people on the other sidesay, I heard that so many times.
I don't wanna say I'm sorry.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and, and do I really have togo?
How can I, how can I get out ofgoing to an event?
And that's, that's easy.
You can't Yep.
Yep.
(27:48):
So you can't No.
Go.
Yep.
Yep.
There's your answer.
Summit flu, hospital, caraccidents.
You gotta, you gotta becompletely incomp.
Incapacitated.
Or you better just, you know,change your name.
Yeah.
Facebook page.
Get a new, get a new zip code.
Get a new postal code.
Yep.
But I, I think in, if I couldtake all the options that I have
(28:10):
in the book of things to say,and there's even more, I'll
probably add a few more on, Ibelieve.
When if, do you wanna findsomething other than, I'm sorry.
Say anything about the person,if it was a person at work or
really Miss Joe at work, he wasalways a good, it was always a
good joke.
You know, I always had a greatjoke for the day.
Yeah.
Something personal.
(28:30):
That's all it matters.
Yeah.
You know, I'm hurting every timeI think about it.
That's not, it's not acomparison.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
The first thing that comes tomind is really the best thing.
Mm-hmm.
As long as it's not like, Iwonder how they died or, you
know, something appropriate.
The first thing, people alwaysforget the first thing because
(28:52):
it just doesn't seem, it seemstoo real, right?
It seems personal because itmakes them sad.
I was gonna say it, it probablymakes them connected to their
sadness, which is what we talkedabout in the beginning.
It's not about you, it's aboutthe other person.
But you're reframing that alltogether to help it make a
connection so they can hear theimpact that person has had in
(29:17):
your life.
Right?
Yes.
If you say, I'm, you know, I'mhurting every time I think of
you guys.
Mm-hmm.
And now you're sharing in theirgrief and they know you.
Yeah.
That, that.
You care for them.
Yeah.
That's a supportive, perfect wayof saying it.
I love it.
So anything like that, you've, Ican't stop thinking about about
you right now.
I, I'm so sad and I'll continueto think about you forever.
(29:41):
Yeah.
Boom.
Yeah.
The first thing in your mind isalways the best.
And it's surprises to me howmany people don't think that's
what they should write.
Yeah.
So, great.
Great.
Information.
It's about the relationship.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I love it.
I love it.
(30:02):
Thank you so much, Barbara, forthis conversation was we don't
mess around here.
There's so much more.
So there's so many goofy thingsthat happen and so it's, you
know, it's, it's a fun quicklittle read.
It's, you know, the what not todo at funerals is, it's really,
(30:23):
I think it's.
It's getting more and morepopular and the conversations
are fun.
Yeah, and, and honestly, I.
The fact that you have gonethrough so much loss in your
life and you are able to helpothers show up for other people
who are going throughchallenging times with grief and
(30:47):
death is so, so valuable, and Iam so grateful.
Our paths have crossed to havethis snippet conversation.
We will.
Come back together again.
I know it.
I know there's other thingscoming in the near future that
you are busy creating andcrafting right now, because I
love your ideas of make itsimple.
(31:09):
Don't make this such a big deal,but do it properly.
Yeah.
Right.
I'm, I have to tell you, Ican't, when someone says, you
look at, um, you know, here'sthree things you should say
every day to make your lifeeasier, and then you look down
at the corner of the littlevideo and it says 45 minutes
click.
If, why can't you tell me thatin five minutes?
It's only three words.
(31:30):
Just give me the information.
Yeah.
And let me start in on it.
Yeah.
I, I am, I hate to say it, andmaybe your colleagues will, will
realize this.
I'm an American, we don't readinstructions until we can't find
all the schools.
I just, I just know how to doit.
Just lemme jump in and start,gimme the, you know, the tools
that I need with Yeah.
(31:53):
Without the drama and I can usethem to the best of my ability.
And it's quick and simple andthen life goes on hopefully
better.
Exactly.
And if you need more, you canfind out how to reach you.
Right?
Like if they need moreinformation or absolutely need
to ask you specific questions,you can go to bohart.com.
Yeah.
(32:14):
Um.
The information's also, youknow, what not to do at Funerals
Loss Amazon, but also@bohart.comwhere I'll, um, start have some
other books and presentationinformation and things like
that.
Nice.
They can find, if they have anyquestions, they can always email
me or contact me through there,and I'd be thrilled to get back
to them.
Perfect.
Good or bad, I can't wait.
Exactly.
(32:35):
Exactly.
Thank you so much for your timetoday, Barbara.
It's always a pleasure to seeyour smiling face on the other
side of our screen.
Okay.
Make sure that you follow Thriveafter 45 so you don't miss.
Any of these nuggets of goldthat are shared, and we have
(32:55):
such a variety of guests, it hasbeen an honor and a privilege to
share space today with Barbaraand her wisdom behind being real
around death and grief, andsupporting people to move in the
way that is best for them.
It's not about you.
(33:15):
How could you show up andsupport others?
In their grief.
Take care of yourselves.
Make sure you do something foryou by you because of you today
and every day, and we will seeyou on the next show.
Goodbye everyone.
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