September 30, 2025 • 32 mins
What does it mean to truly thrive after trauma? At 71, Dr. Greg Linkowski calls this his "last and best quarter" – a remarkable perspective from someone who witnessed his father's attempted suicide as a teenager, navigated a demanding medical career, and experienced the heartbreak of raising and losing a special needs child.
Dr. Linkowski's journey through childhood trauma to purposeful living offers profound insights for anyone seeking healing. His candid discussion about breaking generational cycles of alcohol use resonates deeply, as does his emphasis on daily spiritual practice. "God loves desperate people," he shares, reflecting on the desperate search for healing during his son David's decade-long battle with a rare neurological condition.
Writing his memoir Dare to Thrive wasn't just about sharing wisdom – it became another step in his healing journey. Dr. Linkowski discovered that revisiting painful memories brought unexpected emotional challenges, proving that healing is ongoing rather than a destination. His refreshing honesty about not "consistently thriving" offers hope to those who feel discouraged by setbacks in their own healing process.
For listeners navigating trauma, Dr. Linkowski provides practical wisdom: prioritize self-care, establish a faith practice, seek professional help including therapy and medication when needed, build a support network, and find mentors. "You can't pour from an empty vessel," he reminds us – essential advice for caregivers who often neglect their own wellbeing.
What's your legacy? For Dr. Linkowski , it's not his professional accomplishments but the love, generosity, and forgiveness he hopes to leave behind.
Connect with Dr. Greg Linkowski on Instagram @thegreglinkowski_m.d. Read his story in Dare to Thrive available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble.
Thank you so much for listening in! If this episode spoke to you, it would mean the world to me if you left a review or shared it with a friend. And don’t forget to tag me so I can personally thank you for helping me spread the word.
Follow and chat with me on Instagram:
Podcast account - @thrivelikeamother.podcast
Personal account - @thrive.empowered
Sending you light and love always!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, love, I'm Ebony and welcome to Thrive Like a
Mother On this podcast.
We're scared for our truth, butthat fear is what fuels us to
truly live in it.
You're in the right place ifyou feel like you're stuck in
survivor mode and you're readyto step into who you were truly
(00:20):
meant to be.
I'll share resources and toolsI use daily to help you in your
journey towards a healthiermindset and to break the wheel
of survival.
The journey may not be easy,but you won't have to face it
alone.
I'm a mama of three, healingday by day from past trauma, and
I'm on a mission to build alife I've always dreamed of but
(00:42):
never thought was possible.
So, love, if you're ready tobelieve in what's possible,
let's link arms and thrivetogether.
All right, loves.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Thrive Like a Mother podcast
.
Today's guest y'all he isbringing a lifetime of wisdom,
(01:05):
resilience and really deeplypersonal insight to our
discussion today Dr GregLankowski, isa, retired
diagnostic radiologist.
He's a proud husband and fatherand now the author to Dare to
Thrive.
Lessons Learned from a TraumaSurvivor.
And at 71 years old, greg iscalling this his last and best
(01:29):
quarter.
So in this episode we're reallygoing to dive in, what it looks
like to reclaim your identityafter trauma, what it looks like
to deepen your faith and alsoto use your story to help others
to thrive, to use your story tohelp others to thrive.
So, greg, I'd love to jumpright in, because we started
with a bang here that you saidthis is your best quarter, yet
(01:53):
what is making you feel mostalive?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
right now.
Well, ebony, first of all,thank you for having me on your
podcast and to all the mothersout there.
My heart goes out to you andyou have, without a doubt, the
hardest job in the world.
You know, what's bringing lifefor me is what I would probably
(02:17):
call and I probably borrowedthis from somebody but
purposeful living.
As a child, I went through atremendous amount of trauma in
my family of origin and spentmany actually at least three
decades in my own therapy andbasically to learn how to become
(02:39):
a good husband and a goodfather and a good grandfather.
And there's a combination ofthings that I have tumbled to at
this station of life, one ofwhich is extremely important and
I can't stress the importanceof this is basically abstaining,
(03:01):
or nearly abstaining, fromalcohol consumption.
I have found out, and it'staken me many years of
essentially following thegenerational curse in my family
of drinking, at times to excessand at times to numb out the
pain for which I wasexperiencing.
(03:23):
And I'm here to tell you I wishI knew now what I knew back
when I was a teenager or earlyadult or adult.
I could have saved myself atremendous amount of pain.
But that's one thing, andanother thing that I am doing
(03:44):
consistently, at least over thelast few years, is I'm doing my
very best to pray daily, and Ipray by myself for about maybe
five or 10 minutes, read alittle bit of the Bible and most
days, in fact even this morning, my wife and I do devotional
(04:08):
together.
We read a couple of differentdevotionals and we pray together
.
That is really so important.
Now, I'm also sensitive to thefact that many women who are
likely listening to this podcastare single moms and that is
like extra tough.
But I wake up and I strive tokeep in my mind as I go through
(04:31):
the day God, help me bring honorand glory to you in whatever
comes across my path, and that'sa term I'm borrowing from
Pastor Doug, who wrote theforeword to my book Shameless
Promotion of Dare to Thrive.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
That is true.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
But it really does work.
And it also works with doingyour best to consistently get
enough sleep, and that can be achallenge.
You have an infant.
You have a child who's sick,but that is really important and
also taking care of the templethat God gave you, and that does
(05:16):
include physical activity andexercise.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, I love that you're describing this way of
purposeful living, I feel likefor all of our listeners, you
really kind of have to dig deepinto what that means what that
means for you.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Get curious, you know .
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Don't wait years and years to think about these
things for yourself, you know,start implementing them now.
And so I love that you broughtup the book, because I would
love to talk about, like, whatinspired you really to write
Dare to Thrive at this point inyour journey.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Well, actually writing.
My story, and largely the storyof my primary family, namely my
wife and my children, centeredaround the wonderful blessing
that we had with our childrenand, as it turns out, we had and
(06:09):
we have a living daughter whois thriving, who's married and
has four little ones and who Iwho maintain an anonymity for
you know, for podcast purposesbut who I am so in love with.
Three years after our daughterwas born, we were blessed with a
(06:30):
son and we named him David.
We found out a few months intohis life that things were
basically the wheels startedcoming off the train and we
believed we had a healthy babyboy.
(06:50):
At about a little over threemonths of age, we came to the
realization that David was notmaking eye contact and out of an
abundance of caution, webrought him to the pediatrician
who happened to be one of mycolleagues, and we watched
(07:12):
carefully as his facialexpression changed from
basically just his usual self tohe had a very serious and very
concerned look on his face andwe're both thinking oh my God,
what's going on?
(07:32):
And he said your son hasdevelopmental delay.
At that time I had no idea whatthat meant.
I thought, oh for sure he'llcatch up, you know, no problem.
Well, as it turns out, thingswent from bad to worse.
David had a cat skin, an MRI ofhis brain, as well as an urgent
(07:58):
pediatric neurologistconsultation, and then, about
one or two months after that,around five months of age,
seizures began to happen withDavid and essentially his
overall health basicallydeteriorated to the that he was
(08:21):
functionally a quadriplegic andin many ways, an infant in being
able to communicate, couldn'ttalk, couldn't walk, and we
found out that he had some typeof abnormality in the white
matter of his brain which theynever actually came up with a
(08:43):
diagnosis.
but I know that God knows thediagnosis and God is the great
physician, even though I am onlya physician.
But going through life withDavid, he lived almost 10 years.
We were able to keep him homewith us with the help of AIDS
(09:07):
and even for a time we had alive-in nanny.
We were blessed to be able tohave that and I'm sensitive to
the fact that many people do nothave those resources.
We were very fortunate in thatwe could have David home.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
It was one heck of a journey.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I would not recommend signing up for one.
But you know, there is a sayingthat God and we've all heard
this, probably God will nevergive you more than you can
handle.
More than you can handle, andso my response is God must love
us an awful lot.
(09:50):
But I started writing aboutexperiences that we were going
through with David back in like1995.
And I even kept some of my notesand I kept records of his
medical appointments and stuff.
So I have, like I had, a wholetreasure trove of data that,
because you know, when you'regoing through something really
(10:13):
really terrible, you might evenwonder is this really happening
and why?
You know you can question whyGod, why there?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
is no answer.
Yeah, and we don't know here.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
You know there is.
I hope to find out when I passon and go to heaven.
Maybe those questions will beanswered, I don't know.
But also my family of origin.
We witnessed an attemptedsuicide that my father did while
very intoxicated.
That my father did while veryintoxicated when I was about 13
(10:46):
or 14, he actually shot a loaded.45 caliber semi-automatic
pistol into the floor of thekitchen and announced to our
family that he was going upstairs to kill himself.
And I've visited that scenemany times in my life, both in
my dreams and my owntherapy.
(11:08):
And I slowly realize now thatwe all got post-traumatic stress
disorder, at least some hell ofa dose of it from our family.
And I thank God that we wereable to subdue.
My dad and I wrenched theloaded gun out of his right hand
(11:29):
and one of my brothersconfiscated all of dad's weapons
, and really wisely, which I'mvery grateful for.
But you know the stresses andeverything of becoming a
physician.
But you know the stresses andeverything of becoming a
physician, which were many, manybattles to overcome.
(11:51):
And God, I am convinced Ididn't know it at the time, but
I am convinced God was walkingwith me, whether I was walking
with him or not?
Wow, and lots of times I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
And, I think, going through our marriage has its
challenges.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I mean, I'm married to my medical school sweetheart
and we've been married 41 yearsplus and there isn't much we
haven't lived through.
Some of it is not podcastmaterial, but we've lived
through a lot.
And then we discovered,probably about 12 years ago, our
(12:39):
third child, emmy.
Our son came out as gay.
That was a very unexpectedchallenge, to put it mildly,
very unexpected challenge to putit mildly.
And through my growth as afather, I had to come to terms
(13:04):
with my own views aboutsexuality and about those types
of things.
And I mean I give myself a lotof space and a lot of grace
because where I was coming from,I grew up in New York in the
60s I was an altar boy in theCatholic Church even back when
the mass was Latin and being gaywas very taboo then.
(13:28):
And I've been with manyevangelical christian groups
over the years, and that I meanthe prognosis.
If you're gay according topeople's, what some folks say is
(13:49):
dismal.
As far as your eternal reward,I'm here to tell you, having
lost one son, I could not andwill not ever turn my back on my
believe and and and Ebony,listen, as a doctor, we're
(14:17):
trained, we're supposed to knoweverything.
Uh, uh, I'm, I'm 71 and stilllearning, but anyway.
So now, now move the clock upto about four years ago and I
realized, okay, I retired, Ihave a good retirement, my wife
(14:40):
is semi-retired and we're verycomfortable.
We're very comfortable, I meanfinancially, we're blessed with
abundance, we're blessed withabundance.
My question to myself was whatdifference am I going to make in
the world?
What kind of legacy will Ileave?
(15:02):
And I almost got like adownload from God write your
story story.
And uh, I was, yeah, let's justsay uh, encouraged by a few, a
few other people in my life thatyou know that would be a real
(15:23):
interesting read.
So I, I have some wisdom.
I also, as you can tell, loveto talk a lot.
Yeah, I love that my mother hada phrase she passed on, I think
three years ago, yes, but shehad a phrase a little bit of
Greg goes a long way and I lovethat.
(15:47):
I love that phrase because Iinterpret it now as a compliment
, but anyway, so those are someof the underlying things.
I can imagine my world as adoctor, I know that with writing
.
Dare to Thrive even just whatwe've been talking about now.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
It requires a lot of reflection within your past
within yourself, and even youknow what brought you to write
the book, thinking of like whatlegacy am I going to leave?
Are there any?
Or really, what were some ofthe most surprising or healing
moments that came up for you asyou were writing the book, as
(16:25):
you were revisiting your past?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Well, very frankly, about probably four or five
months into writing, I couldfeel myself going down.
I could feel my emotional state.
I was in tilling the soil thatI.
I thought I was done withgrieving david's passing.
(16:50):
I thought I had mastered myfamily background.
I mean, you know I was, I wasand am a perfectionist in
recovery as well as a, you know,people pleaser in recovery.
Many of those things came tothe surface and that propelled
(17:10):
me to do some of my own insightpsychotherapy, which helped me
kind of make friends with myselfand unravel some of why I was
dragging myself again throughstuff that I thought I had
missed.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Maybe they're not that you know, maybe they think
(17:55):
they've processed but haven'tfully yet.
Especially when you havechildren, you know there are
traumas and things that come upfor us that maybe we thought we
had overcome.
Right, it's, having a kid iskind of like, you know, getting
a very, very large mirror intowhen a kid is kind of like, you
(18:17):
know, getting a very, very largemirror into you know your
childhood and how you want toshow up as a parent.
So, gosh, yeah, thank you forsharing that, because I know a
lot of our listeners willconnect to that.
I want to bring a lot out aboutyour faith, about your faith,
and I want to ask how your faith, even in those moments of doubt
, how they really played a rolein how you've handled the
(18:41):
hardest parts of your life.
I know we talk about your son,sammy, right?
If we want to touch on thatexample or any other points of
your life where you've reallyhad to dig deep and hold on to
your faith, and how it's helpedyou.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I can remember a particular time Now.
This was back probably whenDavid was five or six years old.
I happened to be playing around of golf with Pastor Doug
and our good friend Jerry.
We were a trio for a time and Ican remember vividly just
(19:17):
having this conversation withthem and I believe this happened
asked.
(19:40):
God to either take David home orgive him a creative miracle and
heal him while he was still onearth.
And in essence, that was very,very liberating, because I
realized that his fate and myfate, we all belong to God.
(20:00):
I mean, god is the author andfinisher, but we did our part.
I mean we went to.
I mean you can't make up whatwe did.
We went to Catholic charismatichealing ministries, protestant,
baptist, whatever you name it.
If there was a healingevangelist in town, chances are
(20:21):
we were there.
We were desperate for a miracle.
Oh and, by the way, anothersaying is God loves desperate
people, that's for sure.
And so, just knowing that Iwasn't, I was the parent and,
yeah, I was an active caretakerand participant, father to David
(20:46):
, who had major special needs,but also father to our daughter
and an other healthy son.
And it was a juggling act and,believe me, during the years
David was alive, the other twokids probably didn't get all the
attention that they needed ordeserved.
(21:07):
There just wasn't enough to goaround.
But I will tell you what didshow up.
I'm here to tell you, if youwere to meet us in person, our
children and even ourgrandchildren, just by virtue of
having had David in our lives,we have much deeper sense of
(21:29):
empathy and compassion forpeople, because there's no
substitute for experience.
I mean, we've been there, Iknow what it's like and I'm just
very grateful to be at thisstation of life with nothing
catastrophic really ongoing, butyeah, that is true that is true
(21:51):
, that is true Okay.
You know, there's no shortage ofpain in this world.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
put it that way there's no shortage of it, but
pain can also have a purpose.
So how can we teach ourlisteners that are listening
(22:15):
today, how can we teach them touse their most difficult
experiences?
How can they use those to helpothers?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Well, what comes to mind is, very importantly, take
care of yourself.
Take care of yourself.
You can't pour out of an emptyvessel.
We know a lot of the phrases,and that can include many, many
(22:46):
things, one of which well, a fewof which, for sure are if you
don't have a faith, walk, getone.
It's really good to know okay,I'm living and there is a reason
for me to live.
You know life is meaningful.
(23:06):
You are each individual, each ofus is here for purpose and in
order to embrace life, who youare, it's really important to
know the real you, and there arelots of avenues of support out
(23:26):
there, including individual andcouples therapy, and there's a
variety of different types oftherapies.
There's also pharmacotherapy.
The practitioner decides likeyou have anxiety or depression.
That's really, really bringingyou down.
(23:48):
There's a variety ofmedications that can help and I
totally am a fan of them.
Happen to have also been therecipient of some different
pharmacotherapy agents.
But, in addition to therapy,lean on your support.
If you happen to have a goodrelationship with family, let
(24:13):
them into your world, becausepeople generally who love you
want to help you and not hurtyou or your kids.
But one has to be careful aboutthat too, because to really
know people and trust them, thattakes time and it takes
experiences, and because you'rea precious person I mean Ebony,
(24:36):
you, all the people who arelistening here, are precious in
God's sight, and those littlebeings that you are entrusted
with your children.
They are so important.
It is up to the parents toembrace that.
And look, I understand, you know, if you have two, two and a
(24:56):
half strikes against you, lifecan be a bitch, and it is, yes
In some ways, and it's it keepson showing up.
So, you know, make sure thatyou get the help If it's a
church group, a secular group,psychologies, a psychologist,
marriage counselors.
(25:17):
Also, if you're fortunateenough to get a mentor or two in
your life, perhaps somebodywho's been there, done that and
who you respect, and who cancome alongside you and put their
arm on your shoulder and sayyou know, you can do it, you go
(25:39):
girl, you go guy.
Yes, yeah, you bring up a great.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
You go girl, you go guy.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yes, yeah, you bring up a great point.
I found that to be so important.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I share this all the time that even if you feel like
you don't have the support oryou don't have a circle,
sometimes you have to be willingto go out and look.
There are people out there whoare willing to become a part of
your circle and your support.
There's so many people in thisworld Just to you know.
Get curious and be open.
Sometimes that can be scary,right, because you know you
(26:06):
don't always know who to trust,right?
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So let's talk about fatherhood.
We've been talking a lot aboutthat during this episode, but I
know you speak about it as oneof your greatest accomplishments
.
Greg, can you really just chatabout how being a father and
experiencing loss has shaped theway you're viewing legacy and
(26:30):
love?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Well, I have to say I've learned in many ways
through the school of hardknocks and I embrace now the
notion that God is the authorand the finisher of life.
I am not.
I am.
I would say I'm a work inprogress and indeed I am.
And, by the way, if anybodythinks I'm consistently, if
(26:51):
anybody thinks I'm consistentlythriving, I'm here to tell you
I'm not, but I'm still daring tothrive and life is, does have
meaning.
I think the important thingthat I've learned is that we
don't know one day to the nextabout there's no guarantee for
(27:15):
longevity of one's life, andlife is precious.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
My mandate to myself is live while you're alive.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I wholeheartedly agree with that, and being a
father is just sadly, many mendon't take fatherhood seriously.
You can come to my home and mywife and I have so many diplomas
, so many degrees, so manyrewards, and when we pass on I
(27:42):
know where they're headed.
They're headed to be recycledand to be refilled.
So while I'm here, I want toinject humor into situations,
because I really got.
Both of my parents had goodsense of humors, even though
(28:03):
they failed at many things, butthey and I love to laugh and it
makes me feel good when I, like,am able to have people around
me laugh and experience joy, youknow, and that sort of thing.
And experience joy, you know,and that sort of thing.
I think the greatest legacythat I desire to leave is a
(28:30):
legacy of love and beinggenerous, caring and hopefully a
very forgiving individual too.
Yeah, I mean, those are some ofthe key things I too.
Yeah, I mean, those are some ofthe key things, I think.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Well, Greg, thank you for your time today.
If you could leave ourcommunity with one final message
, especially for the womenlistening that are navigating
currently their own trauma andhealing, what would that message
be?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Winston Churchill was famously misquoted as saying
never, never, never give up.
I mean, what he actually saidwas more complicated than that.
As a paraphrasing it do notgive up.
(29:20):
God loves you, you are valuable, you are worthy and, very
importantly, you're a majorvalue.
Your kids need you, and thoseare some cogent reasons for
living and pressing on, despitethe difficulties.
(29:44):
And, believe me, I can't evenimagine some of the stories
people are writing in youraudience.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yes, gosh Well, can you share with them where they
can buy Dare to Thrive if theywant to dig more into your story
, and then also just how theycan connect Dare to Thrive if
they want to dig more into yourstory, and then also just how
they can connect with you andcontinue to follow along?
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Well, dare to Thrive is available, actually, through
many resources.
Probably the easiest is Amazon,also Barnes, noble, noble.
I would ask, if I am blessedwith having you read my story,
(30:27):
if you could post, if youresonate with it, if you could
post a review on Amazon, I wouldbe most grateful.
You know what I will do,believe it or not, I don't know.
Ebony, if you have my Facebookhandle or Instagram handle, I
should have that right before me.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
That's okay, I will.
I think I have the links and Iwill always make sure we put it
in the show notes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
So I'll direct them there.
So very much, yeah, I have.
I have somebody else handlingmy social media, because I'm you
wouldn't want me doing it,because you wouldn't want me
doing it?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Gosh, that's great.
Well, yes, y'all you will beable to find I'll make sure I
put a link to the book as wellas Greg's social handle, so you
can continue to follow along inhis journey and again listen to
his wisdom, because he shared alot already on this episode with
y'all and Dr Greg.
Thank you for yourvulnerability, woof, goodness,
(31:26):
the words today, your wisdom and, honestly, just your
willingness to share your storywith our community.
Today your life is truly proofthat healing it never has an
expiration date and thatthriving really is always
possible, even in those momentswhere we feel like it may not be
.
So just thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Thank you so much, ebony, and God bless you and the
good work you're doing, and Godbless all the folks out there,
onward and upward.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yes, yes, Thank you so much for listening.
Love.
If anything in today's episoderesonated with you, share it
with your bestie or share it onsocial media and tag me so we
can chat about it, as always,sending you light and love, and
remember you are worthy, you areenough and you deserve to
(32:17):
thrive.
Hey, love, I'm Ebony and welcome to Thrive Like a
Mother On this podcast.
We're scared for our truth, butthat fear is what fuels us to
truly live in it.
You're in the right place ifyou feel like you're stuck in
survivor mode and you're readyto step into who you were truly
(00:20):
meant to be.
I'll share resources and toolsI use daily to help you in your
journey towards a healthiermindset and to break the wheel
of survival.
The journey may not be easy,but you won't have to face it
alone.
I'm a mama of three, healingday by day from past trauma, and
I'm on a mission to build alife I've always dreamed of but
(00:42):
never thought was possible.
So, love, if you're ready tobelieve in what's possible,
let's link arms and thrivetogether.
All right, loves.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Thrive Like a Mother podcast
.
Today's guest y'all he isbringing a lifetime of wisdom,
(01:05):
resilience and really deeplypersonal insight to our
discussion today Dr GregLankowski, isa, retired
diagnostic radiologist.
He's a proud husband and fatherand now the author to Dare to
Thrive.
Lessons Learned from a TraumaSurvivor.
And at 71 years old, greg iscalling this his last and best
(01:29):
quarter.
So in this episode we're reallygoing to dive in, what it looks
like to reclaim your identityafter trauma, what it looks like
to deepen your faith and alsoto use your story to help others
to thrive, to use your story tohelp others to thrive.
So, greg, I'd love to jumpright in, because we started
with a bang here that you saidthis is your best quarter, yet
(01:53):
what is making you feel mostalive?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
right now.
Well, ebony, first of all,thank you for having me on your
podcast and to all the mothersout there.
My heart goes out to you andyou have, without a doubt, the
hardest job in the world.
You know, what's bringing lifefor me is what I would probably
(02:17):
call and I probably borrowedthis from somebody but
purposeful living.
As a child, I went through atremendous amount of trauma in
my family of origin and spentmany actually at least three
decades in my own therapy andbasically to learn how to become
(02:39):
a good husband and a goodfather and a good grandfather.
And there's a combination ofthings that I have tumbled to at
this station of life, one ofwhich is extremely important and
I can't stress the importanceof this is basically abstaining,
(03:01):
or nearly abstaining, fromalcohol consumption.
I have found out, and it'staken me many years of
essentially following thegenerational curse in my family
of drinking, at times to excessand at times to numb out the
pain for which I wasexperiencing.
(03:23):
And I'm here to tell you I wishI knew now what I knew back
when I was a teenager or earlyadult or adult.
I could have saved myself atremendous amount of pain.
But that's one thing, andanother thing that I am doing
(03:44):
consistently, at least over thelast few years, is I'm doing my
very best to pray daily, and Ipray by myself for about maybe
five or 10 minutes, read alittle bit of the Bible and most
days, in fact even this morning, my wife and I do devotional
(04:08):
together.
We read a couple of differentdevotionals and we pray together
.
That is really so important.
Now, I'm also sensitive to thefact that many women who are
likely listening to this podcastare single moms and that is
like extra tough.
But I wake up and I strive tokeep in my mind as I go through
(04:31):
the day God, help me bring honorand glory to you in whatever
comes across my path, and that'sa term I'm borrowing from
Pastor Doug, who wrote theforeword to my book Shameless
Promotion of Dare to Thrive.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
That is true.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
But it really does work.
And it also works with doingyour best to consistently get
enough sleep, and that can be achallenge.
You have an infant.
You have a child who's sick,but that is really important and
also taking care of the templethat God gave you, and that does
(05:16):
include physical activity andexercise.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, I love that you're describing this way of
purposeful living, I feel likefor all of our listeners, you
really kind of have to dig deepinto what that means what that
means for you.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Get curious, you know .
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Don't wait years and years to think about these
things for yourself, you know,start implementing them now.
And so I love that you broughtup the book, because I would
love to talk about, like, whatinspired you really to write
Dare to Thrive at this point inyour journey.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Well, actually writing.
My story, and largely the storyof my primary family, namely my
wife and my children, centeredaround the wonderful blessing
that we had with our childrenand, as it turns out, we had and
(06:09):
we have a living daughter whois thriving, who's married and
has four little ones and who Iwho maintain an anonymity for
you know, for podcast purposesbut who I am so in love with.
Three years after our daughterwas born, we were blessed with a
(06:30):
son and we named him David.
We found out a few months intohis life that things were
basically the wheels startedcoming off the train and we
believed we had a healthy babyboy.
(06:50):
At about a little over threemonths of age, we came to the
realization that David was notmaking eye contact and out of an
abundance of caution, webrought him to the pediatrician
who happened to be one of mycolleagues, and we watched
(07:12):
carefully as his facialexpression changed from
basically just his usual self tohe had a very serious and very
concerned look on his face andwe're both thinking oh my God,
what's going on?
(07:32):
And he said your son hasdevelopmental delay.
At that time I had no idea whatthat meant.
I thought, oh for sure he'llcatch up, you know, no problem.
Well, as it turns out, thingswent from bad to worse.
David had a cat skin, an MRI ofhis brain, as well as an urgent
(07:58):
pediatric neurologistconsultation, and then, about
one or two months after that,around five months of age,
seizures began to happen withDavid and essentially his
overall health basicallydeteriorated to the that he was
(08:21):
functionally a quadriplegic andin many ways, an infant in being
able to communicate, couldn'ttalk, couldn't walk, and we
found out that he had some typeof abnormality in the white
matter of his brain which theynever actually came up with a
(08:43):
diagnosis.
but I know that God knows thediagnosis and God is the great
physician, even though I am onlya physician.
But going through life withDavid, he lived almost 10 years.
We were able to keep him homewith us with the help of AIDS
(09:07):
and even for a time we had alive-in nanny.
We were blessed to be able tohave that and I'm sensitive to
the fact that many people do nothave those resources.
We were very fortunate in thatwe could have David home.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
It was one heck of a journey.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I would not recommend signing up for one.
But you know, there is a sayingthat God and we've all heard
this, probably God will nevergive you more than you can
handle.
More than you can handle, andso my response is God must love
us an awful lot.
(09:50):
But I started writing aboutexperiences that we were going
through with David back in like1995.
And I even kept some of my notesand I kept records of his
medical appointments and stuff.
So I have, like I had, a wholetreasure trove of data that,
because you know, when you'regoing through something really
(10:13):
really terrible, you might evenwonder is this really happening
and why?
You know you can question whyGod, why there?
Speaker 1 (10:22):
is no answer.
Yeah, and we don't know here.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
You know there is.
I hope to find out when I passon and go to heaven.
Maybe those questions will beanswered, I don't know.
But also my family of origin.
We witnessed an attemptedsuicide that my father did while
very intoxicated.
That my father did while veryintoxicated when I was about 13
(10:46):
or 14, he actually shot a loaded.45 caliber semi-automatic
pistol into the floor of thekitchen and announced to our
family that he was going upstairs to kill himself.
And I've visited that scenemany times in my life, both in
my dreams and my owntherapy.
(11:08):
And I slowly realize now thatwe all got post-traumatic stress
disorder, at least some hell ofa dose of it from our family.
And I thank God that we wereable to subdue.
My dad and I wrenched theloaded gun out of his right hand
(11:29):
and one of my brothersconfiscated all of dad's weapons
, and really wisely, which I'mvery grateful for.
But you know the stresses andeverything of becoming a
physician.
But you know the stresses andeverything of becoming a
physician, which were many, manybattles to overcome.
(11:51):
And God, I am convinced Ididn't know it at the time, but
I am convinced God was walkingwith me, whether I was walking
with him or not?
Wow, and lots of times I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
And, I think, going through our marriage has its
challenges.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I mean, I'm married to my medical school sweetheart
and we've been married 41 yearsplus and there isn't much we
haven't lived through.
Some of it is not podcastmaterial, but we've lived
through a lot.
And then we discovered,probably about 12 years ago, our
(12:39):
third child, emmy.
Our son came out as gay.
That was a very unexpectedchallenge, to put it mildly,
very unexpected challenge to putit mildly.
And through my growth as afather, I had to come to terms
(13:04):
with my own views aboutsexuality and about those types
of things.
And I mean I give myself a lotof space and a lot of grace
because where I was coming from,I grew up in New York in the
60s I was an altar boy in theCatholic Church even back when
the mass was Latin and being gaywas very taboo then.
(13:28):
And I've been with manyevangelical christian groups
over the years, and that I meanthe prognosis.
If you're gay according topeople's, what some folks say is
(13:49):
dismal.
As far as your eternal reward,I'm here to tell you, having
lost one son, I could not andwill not ever turn my back on my
believe and and and Ebony,listen, as a doctor, we're
(14:17):
trained, we're supposed to knoweverything.
Uh, uh, I'm, I'm 71 and stilllearning, but anyway.
So now, now move the clock upto about four years ago and I
realized, okay, I retired, Ihave a good retirement, my wife
(14:40):
is semi-retired and we're verycomfortable.
We're very comfortable, I meanfinancially, we're blessed with
abundance, we're blessed withabundance.
My question to myself was whatdifference am I going to make in
the world?
What kind of legacy will Ileave?
(15:02):
And I almost got like adownload from God write your
story story.
And uh, I was, yeah, let's justsay uh, encouraged by a few, a
few other people in my life thatyou know that would be a real
(15:23):
interesting read.
So I, I have some wisdom.
I also, as you can tell, loveto talk a lot.
Yeah, I love that my mother hada phrase she passed on, I think
three years ago, yes, but shehad a phrase a little bit of
Greg goes a long way and I lovethat.
(15:47):
I love that phrase because Iinterpret it now as a compliment
, but anyway, so those are someof the underlying things.
I can imagine my world as adoctor, I know that with writing
.
Dare to Thrive even just whatwe've been talking about now.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
It requires a lot of reflection within your past
within yourself, and even youknow what brought you to write
the book, thinking of like whatlegacy am I going to leave?
Are there any?
Or really, what were some ofthe most surprising or healing
moments that came up for you asyou were writing the book, as
(16:25):
you were revisiting your past?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Well, very frankly, about probably four or five
months into writing, I couldfeel myself going down.
I could feel my emotional state.
I was in tilling the soil thatI.
I thought I was done withgrieving david's passing.
(16:50):
I thought I had mastered myfamily background.
I mean, you know I was, I wasand am a perfectionist in
recovery as well as a, you know,people pleaser in recovery.
Many of those things came tothe surface and that propelled
(17:10):
me to do some of my own insightpsychotherapy, which helped me
kind of make friends with myselfand unravel some of why I was
dragging myself again throughstuff that I thought I had
missed.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Maybe they're not that you know, maybe they think
(17:55):
they've processed but haven'tfully yet.
Especially when you havechildren, you know there are
traumas and things that come upfor us that maybe we thought we
had overcome.
Right, it's, having a kid iskind of like, you know, getting
a very, very large mirror intowhen a kid is kind of like, you
(18:17):
know, getting a very, very largemirror into you know your
childhood and how you want toshow up as a parent.
So, gosh, yeah, thank you forsharing that, because I know a
lot of our listeners willconnect to that.
I want to bring a lot out aboutyour faith, about your faith,
and I want to ask how your faith, even in those moments of doubt
, how they really played a rolein how you've handled the
(18:41):
hardest parts of your life.
I know we talk about your son,sammy, right?
If we want to touch on thatexample or any other points of
your life where you've reallyhad to dig deep and hold on to
your faith, and how it's helpedyou.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I can remember a particular time Now.
This was back probably whenDavid was five or six years old.
I happened to be playing around of golf with Pastor Doug
and our good friend Jerry.
We were a trio for a time and Ican remember vividly just
(19:17):
having this conversation withthem and I believe this happened
asked.
(19:40):
God to either take David home orgive him a creative miracle and
heal him while he was still onearth.
And in essence, that was very,very liberating, because I
realized that his fate and myfate, we all belong to God.
(20:00):
I mean, god is the author andfinisher, but we did our part.
I mean we went to.
I mean you can't make up whatwe did.
We went to Catholic charismatichealing ministries, protestant,
baptist, whatever you name it.
If there was a healingevangelist in town, chances are
(20:21):
we were there.
We were desperate for a miracle.
Oh and, by the way, anothersaying is God loves desperate
people, that's for sure.
And so, just knowing that Iwasn't, I was the parent and,
yeah, I was an active caretakerand participant, father to David
(20:46):
, who had major special needs,but also father to our daughter
and an other healthy son.
And it was a juggling act and,believe me, during the years
David was alive, the other twokids probably didn't get all the
attention that they needed ordeserved.
(21:07):
There just wasn't enough to goaround.
But I will tell you what didshow up.
I'm here to tell you, if youwere to meet us in person, our
children and even ourgrandchildren, just by virtue of
having had David in our lives,we have much deeper sense of
(21:29):
empathy and compassion forpeople, because there's no
substitute for experience.
I mean, we've been there, Iknow what it's like and I'm just
very grateful to be at thisstation of life with nothing
catastrophic really ongoing, butyeah, that is true that is true
(21:51):
, that is true Okay.
You know, there's no shortage ofpain in this world.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
put it that way there's no shortage of it, but
pain can also have a purpose.
So how can we teach ourlisteners that are listening
(22:15):
today, how can we teach them touse their most difficult
experiences?
How can they use those to helpothers?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Well, what comes to mind is, very importantly, take
care of yourself.
Take care of yourself.
You can't pour out of an emptyvessel.
We know a lot of the phrases,and that can include many, many
(22:46):
things, one of which well, a fewof which, for sure are if you
don't have a faith, walk, getone.
It's really good to know okay,I'm living and there is a reason
for me to live.
You know life is meaningful.
(23:06):
You are each individual, each ofus is here for purpose and in
order to embrace life, who youare, it's really important to
know the real you, and there arelots of avenues of support out
(23:26):
there, including individual andcouples therapy, and there's a
variety of different types oftherapies.
There's also pharmacotherapy.
The practitioner decides likeyou have anxiety or depression.
That's really, really bringingyou down.
(23:48):
There's a variety ofmedications that can help and I
totally am a fan of them.
Happen to have also been therecipient of some different
pharmacotherapy agents.
But, in addition to therapy,lean on your support.
If you happen to have a goodrelationship with family, let
(24:13):
them into your world, becausepeople generally who love you
want to help you and not hurtyou or your kids.
But one has to be careful aboutthat too, because to really
know people and trust them, thattakes time and it takes
experiences, and because you'rea precious person I mean Ebony,
(24:36):
you, all the people who arelistening here, are precious in
God's sight, and those littlebeings that you are entrusted
with your children.
They are so important.
It is up to the parents toembrace that.
And look, I understand, you know, if you have two, two and a
(24:56):
half strikes against you, lifecan be a bitch, and it is, yes
In some ways, and it's it keepson showing up.
So, you know, make sure thatyou get the help If it's a
church group, a secular group,psychologies, a psychologist,
marriage counselors.
(25:17):
Also, if you're fortunateenough to get a mentor or two in
your life, perhaps somebodywho's been there, done that and
who you respect, and who cancome alongside you and put their
arm on your shoulder and sayyou know, you can do it, you go
(25:39):
girl, you go guy.
Yes, yeah, you bring up a great.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
You go girl, you go guy.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yes, yeah, you bring up a great point.
I found that to be so important.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I share this all the time that even if you feel like
you don't have the support oryou don't have a circle,
sometimes you have to be willingto go out and look.
There are people out there whoare willing to become a part of
your circle and your support.
There's so many people in thisworld Just to you know.
Get curious and be open.
Sometimes that can be scary,right, because you know you
(26:06):
don't always know who to trust,right?
Yeah, yeah, okay.
So let's talk about fatherhood.
We've been talking a lot aboutthat during this episode, but I
know you speak about it as oneof your greatest accomplishments
.
Greg, can you really just chatabout how being a father and
experiencing loss has shaped theway you're viewing legacy and
(26:30):
love?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Well, I have to say I've learned in many ways
through the school of hardknocks and I embrace now the
notion that God is the authorand the finisher of life.
I am not.
I am.
I would say I'm a work inprogress and indeed I am.
And, by the way, if anybodythinks I'm consistently, if
(26:51):
anybody thinks I'm consistentlythriving, I'm here to tell you
I'm not, but I'm still daring tothrive and life is, does have
meaning.
I think the important thingthat I've learned is that we
don't know one day to the nextabout there's no guarantee for
(27:15):
longevity of one's life, andlife is precious.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
My mandate to myself is live while you're alive.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I wholeheartedly agree with that, and being a
father is just sadly, many mendon't take fatherhood seriously.
You can come to my home and mywife and I have so many diplomas
, so many degrees, so manyrewards, and when we pass on I
(27:42):
know where they're headed.
They're headed to be recycledand to be refilled.
So while I'm here, I want toinject humor into situations,
because I really got.
Both of my parents had goodsense of humors, even though
(28:03):
they failed at many things, butthey and I love to laugh and it
makes me feel good when I, like,am able to have people around
me laugh and experience joy, youknow, and that sort of thing.
And experience joy, you know,and that sort of thing.
I think the greatest legacythat I desire to leave is a
(28:30):
legacy of love and beinggenerous, caring and hopefully a
very forgiving individual too.
Yeah, I mean, those are some ofthe key things I too.
Yeah, I mean, those are some ofthe key things, I think.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Well, Greg, thank you for your time today.
If you could leave ourcommunity with one final message
, especially for the womenlistening that are navigating
currently their own trauma andhealing, what would that message
be?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Winston Churchill was famously misquoted as saying
never, never, never give up.
I mean, what he actually saidwas more complicated than that.
As a paraphrasing it do notgive up.
(29:20):
God loves you, you are valuable, you are worthy and, very
importantly, you're a majorvalue.
Your kids need you, and thoseare some cogent reasons for
living and pressing on, despitethe difficulties.
(29:44):
And, believe me, I can't evenimagine some of the stories
people are writing in youraudience.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yes, gosh Well, can you share with them where they
can buy Dare to Thrive if theywant to dig more into your story
, and then also just how theycan connect Dare to Thrive if
they want to dig more into yourstory, and then also just how
they can connect with you andcontinue to follow along?
Speaker 2 (30:06):
Well, dare to Thrive is available, actually, through
many resources.
Probably the easiest is Amazon,also Barnes, noble, noble.
I would ask, if I am blessedwith having you read my story,
(30:27):
if you could post, if youresonate with it, if you could
post a review on Amazon, I wouldbe most grateful.
You know what I will do,believe it or not, I don't know.
Ebony, if you have my Facebookhandle or Instagram handle, I
should have that right before me.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
That's okay, I will.
I think I have the links and Iwill always make sure we put it
in the show notes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
So I'll direct them there.
So very much, yeah, I have.
I have somebody else handlingmy social media, because I'm you
wouldn't want me doing it,because you wouldn't want me
doing it?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Gosh, that's great.
Well, yes, y'all you will beable to find I'll make sure I
put a link to the book as wellas Greg's social handle, so you
can continue to follow along inhis journey and again listen to
his wisdom, because he shared alot already on this episode with
y'all and Dr Greg.
Thank you for yourvulnerability, woof, goodness,
(31:26):
the words today, your wisdom and, honestly, just your
willingness to share your storywith our community.
Today your life is truly proofthat healing it never has an
expiration date and thatthriving really is always
possible, even in those momentswhere we feel like it may not be
.
So just thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Thank you so much, ebony, and God bless you and the
good work you're doing, and Godbless all the folks out there,
onward and upward.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yes, yes, Thank you so much for listening.
Love.
If anything in today's episoderesonated with you, share it
with your bestie or share it onsocial media and tag me so we
can chat about it, as always,sending you light and love, and
remember you are worthy, you areenough and you deserve to
(32:17):
thrive.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.