Episode Transcript
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Kathryn (00:00):
Hi, I'm Catherine.
Brian (00:01):
And I am Brian and we are
Thriving with the Bovinos.
Kathryn (00:05):
On today's episode, we
talk with Julie Sando.
Brian (00:07):
Julie is the owner of
Autistically Inclined and shares
about her journey helpingindividuals with unreliable
communication.
Use spelling to expressthemselves.
Kathryn (00:16):
Julie also shares about
the brain and the body
disconnect with many individualswith autism.
Brian (00:20):
And her journey
supporting the Communication for
education initiative and tevacommunity.
So grab your letter boards andan open mindset, because we are
learning something new today,folks.
Yay, how are you guys good.
Julie (00:35):
how are you guys so good
to see you?
Oh my gosh, it's like settlinga craving I've had in my heart
for like years, years.
Kathryn (00:46):
Wow, yes, oh, my
goodness.
Brian (00:49):
Huge fans of Miss Julie
Sandow.
Kathryn (00:51):
We're so grateful.
We've had years ofcollaboration with you and it's
always been so amazing, andwe're just so grateful that
you're here joining us today.
Brian (00:59):
Always a shining light
and a beautiful presence in the
field that we're in and gettingto see her from time to time in
functions in California.
Now that we're in Virginiadon't get to see her as much,
but we're making it happen withthis podcast.
Welcome, julie Sando.
Julie (01:18):
Welcome.
Oh, my goodness, Thank you guys.
So much.
Mutual fan here of your guys'swork in this community.
It's been so awesome to be ableto collaborate and to you know,
learn from and with you guysand together, and to be able to
to do what we do in such a sucha open way.
Right, I love it.
Brian (01:39):
Tell us what you're doing
now text-based communication
and how did you get started inthat?
Julie (01:52):
Yeah, so I started in the
autism field in 1998.
And it wasn't until the year2015 that this whole
communication breakthrough thinghappened and changed and rocked
my world.
So back in 2015, one of myfamilies I work with families
all over I started off in ABAand then I did some
relationship-based approachesthe Sunrise Program, and then I
(02:14):
created my own program calledNatural Play Therapy.
So that's kind of my background.
And then in 2015, I get a phonecall from this family that I've
known since 2001,.
Right, their kid was thislittle guy at that time, at this
time in 2015, he was 18.
And they're in Colorado.
I'm in California and theycalled me up and they said Julie
(02:36):
, we are flying you up toColorado to meet the real Kagan.
We had a breakthrough with hiscommunication and it's life
changing.
So, kagan, I'll just tell you alittle bit about who I know
Kagan to be.
He, if you were to ask me atthat point in time, loves the
(02:57):
Wiggles, right?
He's this 18 year old who willtalk about the Wiggles all the
time.
He will ask questions about theWiggles and want kind of a
specific answer to complete thatloop.
You know, and you'd get allexcited about that he would
watch the Wiggles over and overon YouTube.
How long did you?
Brian (03:15):
work with him previously.
Julie (03:18):
So his mom and I did a
week long training together in
Massachusetts in 2001.
And then they brought him whenI started working in
Massachusetts.
They brought him out for a weekthere and then, when I drove
across the country to move backto California, I stopped through
Colorado in 2009 and workedwith him for several days there.
(03:39):
So it was just kind of like bigchunks of time every now and
then and we'd do some consultshere and there.
I became close with the family.
His mom really gave meconfidence in my early years.
I think that she kind ofbelieved in me and yeah, so we
had a friendship.
I think as well.
Brian (03:57):
Okay, so then you go out
there in 2015.
Yes, what do you discover?
2015.
Julie (04:02):
Yes, what do you discover
?
So they have this letter boardthat they are using.
So it's like a laminated sheetof paper with the alphabet on it
A through Z.
And one of my firstconversations with him, they put
the board in front of him andhe starts pointing to one letter
(04:25):
at a time and he spells I hatethe wiggles, I'm stuck, I need
help.
I'm just trapped doing the samething over and over and over.
And he explained that he wantsto go to college, he wants to
(04:45):
learn psychology, he wants tolearn you know.
I mean, he is just like anyother 18 year old inside this
body that is stuck doing thesame thing over and over and
over since he was little.
Brian (05:02):
Yeah, wow.
And they parents think he'shappy.
He enjoys the Wiggles.
He wants to continue doing this, so let's make him happy.
But really, inside he wasfinally able to share.
Why do you guys keep making mewatch the Wiggles?
This sucks.
I want to do other stuff.
Get me out of here.
Can you imagine?
Right, how heartbreaking for themom, but right, but also
(05:28):
inspiring that whoa now we canwork together to figure out how
we move forward so he wassharing this with you upon
seeing him yes, he had alreadyshared this with his family
before you know, and so they'relike you know.
Julie (05:41):
so he was kind of filling
me in and catching me up on you
know what I thought was truesince 1998, about what I believe
autism to be Right.
He was filling me in.
Kathryn (05:56):
Wow.
And how many individuals areout there that are stuck in this
, this world, that we believe tobe true, but they need a way to
get out and to share that.
So how did they, how did theycome upon that journey
themselves, to get him to thatpoint to spelling with the
letter board?
That's a good question.
Julie (06:18):
I'm not sure exactly how
they got connected with it, but
they found a practitioner andshe's amazing and so they.
They would travel to Utah towork with her and her name's
Linnea Crandall.
She's great yeah.
Kathryn (06:33):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So you go there, he's speakingto you through the letterboard
filling you in, and then what doyou do?
Julie (06:43):
I'm like well yes, you
can't unsee this right.
You can't.
I mean, I think a lot of peoplehave a choice in that moment
Are you going to like, coveryour ears and pretend like
that's not true, or that can'tbe true for anybody else?
This is a one-off, because thatwould mean you were wrong and
(07:04):
you've been teaching parents inan incorrect way for all these
years.
I mean, I was teaching peopleto join these repetitive
behaviors as a way to connectwith the kids.
That's what the Sunrise Programis, and while there's beauty in
that and there is a lot ofgoodness that comes from that,
(07:24):
we're also then, at a certainpoint, fueling the things that
they are stuck in, and at acertain age, it becomes
frustrating perhaps for them, orsome of them, right.
Some of them are like, hey,this is how I relax.
I relax with the kiddie videos.
It doesn't mean I'm motivatedby them, but this is how I chill
.
So, yeah, give me my babyEinstein and and that's cool.
(07:47):
You know, that's totally cool.
So everybody has a differentexperience of it, but I think
the key theme that I see acrosseverybody is this is not my
motivation, right?
I used to create games andinteractions all around these
motivations that are actuallytrue.
Kathryn (08:07):
Yeah.
So how did you feel then withthat realization?
Because I know a lot of peoplein the field, especially with
the way the ABA field isshifting into being more
compassionate, into shifting howthey approach things, a lot of
people are feeling a lot ofguilt, a lot of like oh my
goodness, I've been teachingthese things.
How did you deal with thefeelings that were arising?
And, yeah, what did you do nexton that journey?
Julie (08:30):
Yes, well, I definitely.
You know apologize to him andyou know express to him how, how
bad I felt.
You know I'm so sorry and he'sso sweet and that's what I find.
Everybody's kind of scared whenthey start on this journey.
Oh my gosh, what is my kidgoing to say?
Are they going to hate me?
Right?
While he felt stuck and he wasfrustrated, he's so sweet and
(08:56):
compassionate and understandingand forgiving and he really gave
me confidence, which started meoff.
I feel like he started me offon this path of not wasting too
much time in my own guilt,because that would just hold me
back from helping others.
(09:16):
And he had a very clear mission.
He asked for me to be up therebecause he knew that maybe I
could do something to helpsomebody else.
So he kind of gave me thismission right Like go get them,
get my friends, you know.
Kathryn (09:33):
I love that.
Brian (09:37):
All right.
So the lady in Utah.
Linnell Renee.
What methodology?
Because there's many differentmethodologies and approaches and
certifications you can get inthis field.
What was her background or whatwas she practicing?
Julie (09:52):
Yeah, so before she
learned the communication she
was in education, she was ateacher, and then she studied
something called rapid promptingmethod, so they call it RPM,
studied something called rapidprompting method, so they call
it RPM.
There's lots of well, severaldifferent methodologies, right,
there's RPM, there's S2C, whichis spelling to communicate,
there's Speller's method, sothat's kind of you know, the
(10:16):
main options that tend to be outthere.
Brian (10:28):
Okay, and these are all
paths available for different
people to explore that all kindof relate to helping people
increase communication.
Yeah, it's kind of herbackground.
Your family found this, theyreached out to you and you're
like, coming from kind of thebehavioral, relational
background, whoa, this isawesome.
You see this work.
It helped one child, right.
And so how do you then be like,what exactly did the mom do to
(10:49):
that child?
What was their process?
And then how do we duplicatethat across different people?
Right, that was your challengeand you got to take it home in
California and do something.
Yes, yes, yes, make this work,julie.
Yes, right, yes, yes, make thiswork, julie.
No pressure, no pressure.
We've gotten a lot ofbackground push from people.
(11:12):
You know, without the researchis always the number one.
Where's the research?
Where's the research?
Right, and that's one avenue.
Then the funding, right.
These therapies cost money.
How do you get funding?
And you need the research toget the funding.
Through insurance or yourprivate pay, then you're only
helping a very small amount ofpeople.
So, yeah, tell us what you did,how what's your?
(11:34):
secret.
What's your next step?
Yes, you're headed back on theplane to california.
You're like what's next?
Julie (11:46):
Oh, there's so many
different avenues.
I could go with this, so I'mgoing to start with the first
part and then I'll come back tothe second part.
So first part is yes, everybodywants these scientific studies.
Aba is the only thing that onlylike method that really has a
(12:09):
study.
That is extremely outdated, andis it even the best study is
questionable, but it's stucksomehow Right.
And now that's like the one andonly way that doctors or
scientists recommend Right.
But there's so many things thatare out there that don't have
the research and I think whathappened is right.
(12:34):
When Lovaas did that study inABA in the well, I don't know
what was that the 70s, 80s, Idon't know Long time ago, how
many people were there withautism?
It was like one in 10,000 kids.
People had the diagnosis.
It's a different landscape now.
There's so much more available.
There's so many more things.
(12:54):
People are doing diets, peopleare doing you know a million
different things to help theirkids.
So how can you take any methodand say here's your study that
shows this method was effective,because parents aren't doing
just one thing anymore?
Right, there are a thousandthings they're doing in every
(13:15):
moment to help their kids.
That's a great point Is itreally this one method?
Brian (13:21):
And you asked 10 people
what ABA is.
They're going to give you 10different answers.
Thank you, professors andauthors of books share.
There's actually about eightdifferent methods and it's very
independent on if you get a goodBCBA or you get a good RBT
right.
It's very person it's theperson.
Kathryn (13:42):
Yes, yes, the person.
Brian (13:44):
Which is not really the
method?
Kathryn (13:47):
Yes, and that's with
anything right, yeah it's the
person and how they're showingup how compassionate they are,
how they're connecting with theindividual, the family, whatever
they're doing, it's the personright whether it's rdi sunrise,
any of these spelling methodsright, exactly, exactly.
Yeah, and I think that couldextend to other areas too, other
(14:12):
therapies that are, you know,even talk therapy, or even a
doctor's office or it's theperson that's showing up who is
your role model?
Brian (14:21):
You?
Have one teacher, youremembered, and what did they?
Julie (14:23):
do differently.
Brian (14:24):
They all had the same
certification.
Kathryn (14:26):
know, they showed up
differently, they listened, they
cared yeah, that impacts, sotrue yeah, so true, yeah, so
true good points, definitely onthe research, because that's
definitely been a huge challengein our approach different
approaches that we've used rightand where's the research?
And we've gotten that pushbackfrom you know other BCBAs and we
(14:47):
are BCBAs but yeah, it's such achallenge, so you've gotten
that and so, yeah, responding tothe first part, go ahead.
Julie (14:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I really firmly believe thatthere's not one right way for
every individual.
That's.
You know out of all the thingsit's like when I first learned
ABA.
You know out of all the thingsit's like when I first learned
aba.
You know, my first year in inthis field in 1988.
I'm like this is it, this iswhat I'm gonna do for the rest
of my life, right.
And then I find the sunriseprogram like, oh, this is it,
(15:15):
this is what I'm gonna do forthe rest of my life, right.
Then I find communication or Icreate my own thing, natural
place.
Oh, this is it, I created myown thing.
Finally, right, this is oh,this is it, I created my own
thing.
Finally, right, this is it.
Nope, like communication.
So now I'm just like all right,nothing is it?
Yes, yes, I want to learn fromeverybody, everybody.
(15:41):
So I come home from thatsession and this is cool because
this is how you and I, you guysand I ended up connecting,
right.
So I picked a family, a family Iwas very close with, who I knew
was open and I worked with themregularly Elliot's family and I
(16:06):
asked them to yes, can I learnthis?
Can I learn this on your sonwith your son, right, can I
experiment?
And they were like sure, okay,yeah, they kind of thought it
was a little crazy, probably atfirst, like, oh, you know, all
everybody thinks, oh, that'stheir kid, he had that success.
(16:28):
My kid's different, right,cause they're protecting
themselves because they've hadso many experience.
But so they, they got fully onboard and they're all in, you
know.
But in the beginning they tooka chance on me and I appreciate
that right.
(16:52):
So I stalked Linnae basicallyshe would come down here for
several days and work withfamilies and decided I did the
whole thing and decided I didn'twant to become certified.
Because what I'm seeing withall of these methodologies is
(17:13):
it's very much about themethodology in the methodologies
, it's very much if A, then B,if the student does this, then
we all are on the same page andwe all respond in this same way.
And I can't subscribe to thatanymore.
I can't be a technique.
I am a human first and humansare dynamic, humans change,
(17:37):
humans try different things, andI think it's a disservice to
our kids when we make them thinkthat everyone in the world is
consistent when they're not yes,that is the old task.
Brian (17:52):
Analysis drives me crazy
first turn on water, then get
soap.
Well, guess what people I turn?
I get soap first and then Iturn on the water.
How are you gonna like that?
So you were teaching rigidityto people for the diagnosis
rigidity and repetitive patternsof behavior, and we're so rigid
?
But we want to teachflexibility by being rigid.
Kathryn (18:11):
Come on, thank you,
Thank you, Thank you.
Oh my gosh.
And then you try to turn thewater on and it's a sensor thing
, and then it turns on and youget the soap and then it turns
off.
Brian (18:22):
You've got to turn the
water on again.
Kathryn (18:29):
There's different,
different bathrooms.
You're waving your hand at thepaper towel thing.
It won't come out and you dancearound and then it's dynamic.
Brian (18:33):
Yes, yes yes because,
right, you're gonna.
How do you teach other peopleto do something if there's no
direction, no guidance, no so?
Are you teaching domains, orlike areas of, like response, or
I guess, what is your thoughts?
If you can't A, then B, thenhow do you share this to more
people?
Julie (18:54):
Yeah, I mean.
What I do is I teach here's.
Here's like, let's say, forexample, three ways to respond
to A.
Let's see which way is best foryour student.
Here's why these three thingsmight be beneficial, might not,
but here's why.
So if we're teaching the why,then people understand and then
(19:19):
they can go and try those things.
I might even recommend let'sstart with this one thing and
let's learn from it.
Right, and we might learn thatthere's a better way, rather
than getting stuck in Cause.
In my training, right, I wastold you're not allowed to move
to.
We start with alphabet boardsthat have the alphabet split up
(19:41):
on a on different stencils.
That's the starting point.
So A through I is on one boardand so on.
Right, three different boards.
So there are bigger targets andthere's less targets, so that
we can build success.
Then we put all the letters onone stencil, then we move to a
laminate board.
So there's a process, right,and I respect the process.
(20:02):
I think that it makes sense.
But I was trained the student isnot able to move from one set
of boards to the next until theyhave mastered, right, mastered
this set, and when I was firstlearning, I was creating some
bad habits.
On that first set of boardsthing, I was like I didn't know
(20:25):
what I was doing, right, we werekind of messy and he got stuck
in that messiness and I couldn'tget him to where we were
looking ready for that next setof boards, for training, right.
But something in my gut waslike just try it, just try it.
(20:45):
So I turned off the camera thetraining camera, right, and
guess what?
He did so much better.
He did so much better.
It's like this fresh slatewhere, now that I have the
knowledge that I do, I'm notgoing to create these bad habits
(21:06):
, we're starting fresh andyou're not stuck on this board
anymore.
Brian (21:11):
It's like the piano you
play one note and you've got to
master that one note with allten fingers and you can't move
on to any other notes.
That's not how you learn inanything.
You don't perfect each step ofthe way to then move to the next
step and you know you wouldnever do anything.
If you're like a kid, right,and you're learning to clean up
your room, it's not toperfection, right.
It's your best attempt and youshape it and you move on and you
(21:33):
learn some other stuff.
Julie (21:43):
And as you get older, you
get better and get more
experience.
So it sounds like you took thatand ran with it.
Brian (21:48):
Yes, yes, running yeah,
yeah so you're practicing with
your trial client.
Julie (21:54):
How's it going so then I
got him fluent eventually.
It took it took a lot oflearning and practice.
Brian (22:02):
Like a couple of years.
What's that?
How long?
Like a couple of years.
Julie (22:05):
Yeah, about that Like a
year and a half, and I would go
to his house twice a week and bethere for, I think, a couple
hours each time.
So we put a lot of hours in inthat first year year and a half,
something like that.
Kathryn (22:19):
Yeah, that first year,
year and a half, something like
that, yeah, yeah, and I have tosay, witnessing that, the
effects of that, it'smind-blowing.
Mind-blowing of the shift inhim and then what he was able to
communicate, oh, it was just sopowerful.
But then also, when hecommunicated that you know he
would come to our office and say, leave, leave, I want to go.
(22:42):
You just continually asking toleave.
But then later he was able totell us he didn't want to leave.
It was his body and you know,taking over.
And just that part justastounds me all the time and
it's it's upsetting that thenyou know we're taking those,
those body movements or whatthey're requesting and asking
for for you, and doing that overand over, like you were
(23:05):
mentioning before.
But then it's also empoweringto later than be able to hear or
learn what they actually arethinking and feeling like.
It's so powerful.
Julie (23:15):
Yes, that was one of my
favorite experiences was so,
catherine, catherine, you got towork with them in RDI, right,
and so when you came to thehouse and got to have that
conversation, he loved it.
You know, I loved it Like weall were just soaking it up.
Kathryn (23:33):
I didn't want it to end
.
I just want to hang out andtalk to him and hear all of his
thoughts and everything he wasdoing and planning and how he
had been working on his goals,and just it was just so cool, so
cool.
Brian (23:45):
You stopped your training
, so then you just went by.
What?
Julie (23:50):
I completed the training.
I just didn't complete the exitinterview.
Right, I didn't want thecertification because I didn't
want to have to abide by one way, right?
Yep, and also funding servicesRight, there are some
unfortunate speaking of right,unfortunate studies out there
that when people do research onthese methods, they're all
(24:13):
lumped together with anothermethodology that was even from
before.
That that isn't bad or wrongeither.
(24:47):
It's called facilitatedcommunication.
Many people use thatsuccessfully.
But back way back in the and ona court stand, and I mean how
dysregulating is that for youand I imagine having autism and
being non-speaking and being ona court stand and having people
try to prove or disprove youraccuracy in your communication.
(25:07):
Having it disproven like thestress, right.
So, yeah, maybe they didn'tperform in their best way, like
who knows, who knows, but nowthere's this stigma that's
attached to it.
That is now.
Fc isn't even the same as theseother methodologies, right, and
now it's attached to all ofthat.
(25:29):
So people do that research andit's debunked.
It's not true for everybody,right?
So I also didn't want thecertification for multiple
reasons.
Right, that I want to learn.
I want to learn from everybody,I want to have the freedom to
do that and also funding sourcesfor our families are quick to
(25:59):
say no to these methodologies.
So I got my certificate inassistive technology through
California State University,northridge.
It was a one semester program,one class, and now I have a
certification that peoplefunding sources approve of.
Brian (26:16):
Wow, you are officially
ready to go.
Wow, you are officially readyto go.
Kathryn (26:21):
Talk about the
flexibility and dynamic thinking
in that process of like how doI make this work in a way that's
going to help the families?
They're going to get thefunding.
I'm going to follow the rules,you know.
I mean that takes some seriousdynamic thinking and problem
solving.
Brian (26:36):
Yeah there's a lot to
navigate.
You need the credibility fromparents to trust.
So I'm just blown away by theseparents that said, yeah, you
can try something we've neverseen and doesn't have much
research with our kid why not,would be my thinking.
But that's awesome and it's notgoing to happen in a week or
two.
We're talking years that theywere like yeah, keep coming, you
(26:58):
come to our house.
You don't have the fundingright.
There's no insurance that ispaying for this.
Maybe you could eventually getinto maybe the regional centers
or something like thatalternative funding sources and
no certificate to say you've gota lot against you and you're
like this is what I feel, thisis what works, this is what I
trust.
I'm going to go for it, love it.
(27:19):
This is what I trust.
Julie (27:20):
I'm gonna go for it.
Love it, yeah, yeah.
I gotta figure out how tothrive, yeah.
And what keeps that going?
What was?
Brian (27:24):
that yeah, like how did
you what?
Tell us what's that fire inside.
People want to know what ledyou to not give in to these
right right because it getsscary people threatening you and
judging you and oh, pushbackyeah.
Imposter syndrome.
Do you know about that?
Julie (27:43):
Yes, yeah, I mean, I have
been, I feel like, ousted from
lots of autism communitiesbecause I refuse to subscribe to
one way for everybody, becauseI want to maintain autonomy and
to have the ability to think formyself.
And also the drive comes fromlistening to autistic voices.
(28:06):
You know, that was my turningpoint where it's like, oh, now
we can talk to non-speakingpeople in a reliable way and
they can teach us.
They're the biggest teachers ofall.
So I think having you know,know, having kegan, give me that
mission, how do you say no tothat?
It just instills something inyou of like, wow, yeah, yeah,
(28:30):
thank you for trusting me withthis.
Kathryn (28:32):
That's an honor I'll do
my best right.
Brian (28:37):
For For him to trust you,
he must have had some
connection, some feeling, thetrust to be able to.
She's the one, and that doesn'tcome from any certifications or
classes, right, that'ssomething, you have it or you
don't.
It's kind of that energy, thatfeeling.
Julie (28:56):
Yeah, and I think he was
kind of picking out all the
people he could see who has itand he would invite them has it,
and he would invite them tocome and like it's your mission
should you choose to accept.
Kathryn (29:06):
I bet he's so proud of
you have you connected with him
after all these years of yeah,yeah, I've been out to see him
several times.
Julie (29:15):
He's come out this way.
We totally stay in touch.
He's amazing, yeah, he's, he's.
Brian (29:21):
We're each other's
biggest cheerleaders, I would
say is he leading or speaking atconferences or trainings, or
helping other or doing anyonline stuff?
Julie (29:33):
he is doing some awesome
things.
So he and his family moved toFort Collins, colorado, and they
started a foundation calledKeys for Autism and they've got
this beautiful property.
They're working on building ahousing community for families
(29:54):
to come and live there and tohave access to all the things
that they're offering there andto have access to all the things
that they're offering.
And they also have offeringsfor people who want to come in
and have some advancedadventures.
So they've got, you know,access to a pond, a lake, a boat
, just all this nature stuff,right, and they'll have families
(30:16):
come out, multiple familiescome out for several days at a
time and take them on adventures.
And he's a part of that andthey'll do.
His mom is trained and we'll dosessions to help them with
their communication and he canchime in and help and support
with that as well.
So they're doing beautiful work.
Kathryn (30:35):
Yeah, yeah, I think you
had heard about that that
family and what they were doingwith me a while back and I was
just like, oh, that sounds soamazing.
I want to go there and check itout.
That's awesome, yes.
Brian (30:47):
You work with your first
client, so you're getting
experience.
You kind of seen that it workedwith this one client and now I
guess you're seeing that it'sworking or helping in a way for
your first client.
You're trying it with what'snext?
How do you go from there?
Julie (31:08):
Yeah, so I wanted the
opportunity to.
Once I got him fluent, I waslike okay, I can do this.
I think I want to be able tohave the opportunity to try this
with.
If you've met one person withautism right, you've met one
person with autism, so I want tohave the opportunity to try
this with.
If you've met one person withautism right, you've met one
person with autism, so I want tohave the opportunity to try
this with others.
So I reach out to some familieswhere they found me somehow
(31:29):
it's just kind of word of mouthtoo, you know and one family
finds something that changestheir lives.
Brian (31:34):
They tell other families
what does fluent mean for people
who don't understand?
So he was non-speaking and nowhe's fluent in what you've
worked with him.
What does that mean?
Julie (31:44):
Yes, okay, so much to
unpack in that.
So there's non-speaking andunreliably speaking.
So let's say Elliot, forexample, and Kagan, for example.
Elliot would always say time togo home, time to go home, and
he would look miserable and thenhe would end up spelling I want
to stay, I want to be here,help me.
Kagan, right, his voice, hisspeaking voice, would say I hate
(32:09):
the Wiggles, and then hespelled or I love the Wiggles,
right, whatever.
Like Wiggles, wiggles, wiggles,and then he would spell he
hates them.
So, and it's not alwaysreliable.
There's other people who arenon-speaking.
Now, we used to say non-verbal,right, and a lot of people
(32:29):
still say non-verbal.
But when you start tounderstand these kids,
non-verbal translates to withoutwords.
These humans are not withoutwords.
They are better listeners thanany of us can comprehend.
Their sensory systems workdifferently than ours.
(32:49):
They're listening to thingsthree rooms away, sometimes
right, like they're taking itall in and then some, so they're
learning more than we can evenimagine.
They are not without words.
They're not nonverbal.
They may be non-speaking orunreliably speaking.
(33:10):
And then, in terms of fluency,when you're communicating on a
letter board, you don't just puta letter board down and then
they start communicating.
It's right, this whole processof getting there, there and once
(33:32):
they're able to communicatetheir thoughts without any I
mean, they're basically when youlearn to point to one of 26
letters purposefully you havelimitless possibilities of what
you can say, and that would beconsidered fluency.
They're fluent now in theirability to communicate.
Brian (33:48):
And that's open-ended
questions.
You could ask them what do youfeel like doing today?
They're typing out, spellingout and sharing.
Is that moving to the iPad orat this point?
Julie (33:59):
It can.
Brian (34:01):
But not required.
Right, it's an option, but ifthey're comfortable using the
stencil or even the letter board, then every individual is an
individual right.
Julie (34:12):
Right, some people have a
much harder time with the
smaller format with all thosekeys to visually have to look at
, but a lot of people prefer itand love it.
So, yeah, I think giving themaccess to all the tools and
letting them then decide what touse where is ideal.
Brian (34:35):
Do you think the
motivation because you talked to
motivation earlier what did youuse for the motivation and was
the motivation for them to beable to share reliably the
intrinsic value?
Was that enough to keep itgoing for something that's
really hard, that takes a longtime?
Julie (34:55):
I love this question.
I wish everybody would ask thisquestion.
So, because this is such acommon thing we're so, so used
to and I was trained, so used toyou have to have a motivation,
right.
What are they most motivated by?
And a lot of times it's food.
A lot of times, it's right,it's iPad time.
(35:16):
And so when I go to work with anew client, that's the
mentality everybody is in, andthere's a lot of work to undo
within that.
So what I tell people is ofcourse, your kid wants to
communicate.
That's enough of a motivation.
(35:36):
So I explain to the person I'masking you to do these things,
not because I'm wanting you toprove your intelligence.
I know you're smart and yourthoughts are trapped inside your
head and we're going to helpyou get them out.
So we're doing this work sothat you can learn how to
express everything that's insideyour head, so that we can know
(35:59):
how to best support you.
And like, boom, that's enough.
And then what happens?
Their body resists.
Just like Elliot, it's time togo home.
It's time to go home, like theseloops are ingrained in our kids
.
Saying no is ingrained in ourkids.
These trauma responses, thesefight or flight responses are
ingrained in our kids, but itdoesn't mean that that's truth.
(36:22):
So I've learned.
Okay, let's work through thiswhile still honoring their body
and their body's needs, but alsoadding in honoring their mind
and their mind's needs.
And that's where the motivationis giving up, because their
(36:43):
body is protesting and we'resaying they need a break.
They actually tend to get moreanxiety because they're like no,
I want to communicate.
Are you kidding me?
Like you know, I want to beable to participate in the world
, and so when they know I'm notgoing to give up, then that's
when their motivation, theiranxiety, lessens.
(37:05):
They become more regulated overtime, and it takes time, it
takes practice, but that's themotivation they want to
communicate.
Brian (37:12):
Of course they do the
intrinsic natural of, I think,
every human being to want togrow, learn, be challenged and
to be loved.
I think those are in all of us,autistic or not.
Kathryn (37:23):
You all want to not
just be stagnant and to connect
with others and to have thatsocial interaction.
So once you're given that theopportunity, yeah, that's the
motivation and I've seen that inindividuals that I've worked
with.
Yeah, there is no need for anyexternal motivation, reward
(37:43):
anything.
They're just motivatedintrinsically, internally, to be
there because it's this newopportunity that they know is
going to get them somewhere.
Even if it's taking years,they're still sitting down and
doing the work and typing theletters and it's amazing.
You just see it.
Julie (38:04):
You know, we're doing a
little training course with a
small group of people right nowand we have somebody an ABA
therapist in Michigan and I satin on one of the training
classes.
I have somebody who's teachingit, but I sat in last night.
So now one of the biggestchanges she's seen is exactly
(38:26):
that, where she's like I used toread Thomas the Tank or you
know whatever they are into.
Now she's reading them booksthat are age appropriate and
she's like I am shocked thatthey are sitting there and they
are responding in ways I neverwould have dreamed of.
(38:46):
And they don't always do that.
But you have to trust it first.
You have to trust and do it andnot wait for them to look like
they're listening, becausethat's a neurotypical assumption
, that listening looks a certainway.
Why are we trying to get themto look like they're listening
my way when their way might be?
(39:07):
Flapping their hands and pacingis what helps them listen,
right, yeah.
Kathryn (39:14):
Oh, I wish, I wish so
many people could get past that,
that listening idea, causethat's been written into goals
and, you know, into programs andIEPs and just that they're
going to show that they'relistening by doing this, this
and this and it's like, but yeah, I've interacted with so many
individuals that are, like yousaid, pacing or going into the
(39:35):
other room and then coming back.
They're still engaged, thoughyou see that then they come back
and then they do whatever we'redoing together and then they
just need a little, you know, alittle regulation moment.
Brian (39:46):
But the more you force,
the more they resist.
Julie (39:49):
Yes, yes, the more that
body resists.
Brian (39:52):
How do you know?
Their brain and their body arenot in sync, I'm assuming
they've told you.
But how do you know that If Iwas a parent, or if I was a
doctor, or where's the researchagain, but how do you know?
Julie (40:08):
Oh, these are fantastic
questions.
I just like oh, I want tocreate a class.
That's just your questions.
So there's, you know, thisneeds to be studied more.
That is clear.
There are theories.
This is a theory.
(40:29):
There's the Broca's area of thebrain and the Wernicke's area of
the brain.
Those are two different spotsin the brain and those spots
have to do with language.
So everybody thinks, or assumesmy kid is nonverbal.
My kid doesn't understand,because when I ask him which
color is red, he doesn't respondor he picks the wrong one.
(40:51):
Right, all the information isgoing in.
You teach him one time this isred.
That information's in the brain, right, it's there.
It's going into the Broca's andWernicke's part of the brain
and processing, just like itdoes for you and me.
(41:11):
Now what happens next?
It travels in the brain to themotor cortex.
Motor cortex is motor, ismovement.
So that is.
Every single way we have tocommunicate requires movement.
The motor cortex, speaking is athousand different processes
(41:35):
that we don't even think about.
Breath, right, like I meantongue, everything, as thousands
of things have to fit togetherto make a syllable, right, it's
complicated.
If I want to text you, thatrequires purposeful movement.
If I want to do sign language.
(41:57):
It requires purposeful movement.
Every single form ofcommunication requires physical
movement.
So it has to travel.
Our thoughts that we'reprocessing over here in the
language part of our braintravel to the motor cortex and
then the messages have to comefrom the motor cortex out to our
you know nerves and bodies andto be able to move in whatever
(42:20):
way we are choosing to expressthis.
That's where the scramble ishappening.
It's a motor disorder, not acognitive disorder.
The language area working justfine, the motor part.
This is why their speech isn'treliable, clear.
They can't have conversationsin the way that you and I can.
(42:41):
This is why they might have ahard time tying their shoes.
They might have a hard timegetting dressed right.
All of this requires movement.
It requires a connectionbetween the brain and the body,
and this is where the disconnectis with our kids.
They have thoughts, they try toget their body to show it and
(43:02):
their body does something else.
Think about Tourette's.
I'm thinking what I want to sayand a different word comes out
it's impulse, it's impulse, it'simpulse.
Kathryn (43:14):
Wow, that's amazing.
I mean I, you know, I had sucha simplistic understanding of
that and the way you just brokeit down was so helpful for me.
I'm sure anybody listening tojust to think about it in that
way and and to think aboutcommunication, not just speech.
But yeah, any kind ofcommunication takes so much
(43:35):
motor movement and coordinationand that's just, you know it's,
it's mind-blowing I was thinkingof elon's neural link and if
that could skip the motor andjust stick in the yeah right
process and then share.
Brian (43:52):
They could skip that and
I bet I bet that's very curious.
Julie (43:56):
Yeah, we'll see very
curious about that.
Kathryn (43:59):
So okay, so we know
that this is what's happening.
We know what this, this is thebreakdown, or causing the
scramble, causing the output shesaid so we don't know, okay,
the theory.
Brian (44:07):
We know this is a theory
of it's happening.
Kathryn (44:09):
So then, on the outside
, what do we observe?
What do we see in theindividual to know that this is
happening for them?
Julie (44:18):
oh yeah, okay.
So we're looking for thedifference between impulse and
purpose, purpose and automatic.
These are three different typesof responses.
So maybe a good analogy is whenI learned how to drive in the
(44:46):
beginning.
It takes a lot of purposefulthinking, right.
Like oh my gosh, getting frompoint a to point b feels so hard
and you have to think of somany things when you're driving
right, you're like 10 and twofingers gripped.
That's like serious purpose,right did you know?
Brian (45:01):
it's four and eight.
Now I just found found this out.
It's ridiculous.
Anyway, side note, I know Downhere, so you don't do this
whatever.
Kathryn (45:13):
What about noon?
Late back 11 to 1.
Brian (45:21):
Love it.
She's got the ice cube playing.
Julie (45:33):
It's a good, it All right
.
So driving, you're purposeful,right, you're learning you're
purposeful Over time, when youget comfortable and you're like,
all right, I got this drivingthing, you.
It becomes automatic, you don'thave to think about it.
Now I drive home and I'm like,how did I even get here?
I don't even remember half thedrive.
(45:55):
That's because I've practicedit so much.
So what happens is in thebeginning of learning how to
drive, I don't have neuralpathways built.
I'm learning to drive.
It's like a lot of work.
So I'm building those pathwaysin my brain like literally
pathways.
I practice on those pathwaysthat have now been established
(46:17):
and myelin sheath starts to coatthose pathways.
That's a white, fatty substance.
So it literally grows aroundthe neural pathway and
strengthens that pathway in thebrain as that pathway, as that
myelination grows.
That's when the movement becomesautomatic, where we don't have
(46:41):
to think about it.
We don't have to think about it.
Then there's impulse.
So impulse is at the bottom ofour brain stem, so all these
other thought processes arehappening like higher up in our
brain.
It has to travel farther frominside of our brain to get to
our expression of it, ourmovement expression of it.
(47:04):
Impulse lives at the base ofour brain and is, just like
always there to take over.
Right, it's that emotional partof the brain.
So, impulse, let me think aboutthis.
Impulses, I'm not thinkingbefore I'm doing so.
I'm at a red light.
(47:25):
Doing so, I'm at a red lightand I don't think this would
actually happen with me.
But let's say somebody pulls up.
Maybe I should use my husbandas an example, my husband's at a
red light.
Brian (47:37):
What does he do?
What is he doing at a red light?
Is he on his phone?
Julie (47:44):
No, somebody pulls up
next to him and it like looks,
I'm like what a race, oh youknow, like my car is better than
yours.
And then, like two tough guysare like the light turns green
and they kind of floor it.
Right, yeah, it's a little moreimpulsive.
I don't know, I don't know ifthat's the best example, but we
can all relate to impulsiveactions that we're not using our
(48:07):
best thinking brain for.
Kathryn (48:09):
Or somebody cuts you
off while you're driving and you
have a moment of road rage andyou're yelling at them and then
you cut them back off.
Brian (48:17):
You've done that.
Kathryn (48:18):
I don't know anybody
around here that's done that Me
neither.
I don't have road rage.
Brian (48:25):
You're quick to point the
finger, though, young lady okay
.
Kathryn (48:31):
So we got this impulse.
We're reacting like more of areaction kind of reactive.
Julie (48:36):
There you go, there you
go.
So those are the differenttypes of response.
So our kids are always kind ofliving in that impulsive state
and occasionally can get somepurpose out.
And when we're, the questionwas how do we know when
something is basically impulsiveor purposeful or automatic?
(48:57):
So impulse tends to be fast.
It tends to be repetitive.
It tends to be repetitive, ittends to be so.
Even spelling can becomeimpulsive, right, I'm working
with that student and I'vegotten to know their impulses
and I can, if I notice they'restarting to get fast, they're
starting to like do one of theirrepetitive words, whatever it
(49:20):
may be, I can do a little reseton the board.
I take that board and I lift itup and bring it back down and
that's just enough to kind ofslow them down.
Or I know I've got to slowmyself down to help slow them
down, right.
So the purposeful actions tendto be slower and tend to be
(49:41):
novel, like new, right or ordifferent.
And then when they practicethose things over time, that's
new and you know it's like.
Eventually, you know maybe inthe beginning they're not taking
their plate to the sink afterdinner, but when you practice it
enough, it becomes part oftheir routine.
That's an automatic movementand that that's you know
(50:03):
somewhere.
But it's purposeful, but theydon't have to think about it.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, active to passive right.
Brian (50:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just
interpreting that in the moment,
you know, could be a challenge.
But, as you said, once you getto know somebody and you can
experience, and it is thatpattern that you see of perhaps
vocalizations of certain wordsor movements of certain right,
that is, it's just consistentand it's almost like you said.
It's not a thoughtful,meaningful response, it's just
(50:35):
anything is basically that'scoming out them.
That's gonna be immediateslowing it down, making more
purposeful connecting the neuralpathways love it.
Kathryn (50:47):
Yeah, I love your brain
explanations.
I think I'll have you help mewith my psychology class that I
teach the myelination and allthat.
I was like, wow, that I need toyou, you're good so you spread
through word of mouth.
Brian (51:06):
I know I keep getting
back to the story, but I really
I think this has a purpose here.
You're growing, you have somemoderate success.
Word of mouth.
You start building, youstarting to get a couple more
clients.
How are these clients paying?
You are you?
Are you starting to charge atthis point?
(51:26):
Not that that really matters,but you're getting the
experience, you're gettingknowledge.
How do you grow into, I guess,where you are today with
Autistically Inclined and howdid that happen?
And what does that process looklike for people who do feel
like they have kind of thisspecial thing that they want to
(51:47):
share with the world?
Julie (51:49):
Yeah, it's a fascinating
process.
So, you know, in the beginningI was like, you know, my hourly
rate for what I do with playtherapy and all of that was
higher.
And now I'm like, wow, I'mstarting over, I'm coming in
fresh.
You know I'm needing to learn.
And now I'm like, wow, I'mstarting over, I'm coming in
fresh, you know I'm needing tolearn.
So I had lowered my rates formy first set of clients, you
(52:14):
know.
But I was also traveling totheir homes and it was.
You know, it's just a differentsetup.
And I think in those days thatwas many, many years ago.
So self-determination inCalifornia didn't exist yet, so
it was mostly just private pay.
Then I got those guys that likefirst set my first crew fluent
up and running and what happensis they get fluent in, you know,
(52:37):
after one hour a week for along time.
Now everybody just wants tospend that one hour a week
talking to their kid.
Of course, right, we have amillion questions.
So when is their time to teachthe parents?
What happens when Julie getssick?
What happens when Julie wantsto go on vacation?
What happens when Julie needsto move to a different location?
(52:57):
Whatever, right, guilt likeheartstrings destroyed because
this I'm their voice and theirlifeline to a voice.
But when do we do this?
It sucked really like it wasthe most beautiful, amazing,
(53:18):
wouldn't change it for the worldexperience.
But I started to feel like, oh,how do we get these parents,
these tools?
Insert pandemic so in yourbusiness plan.
If you're wondering, how do Ido this, create a worldwide
pandemic and you're going to besuccessful and fading yourself
out.
Brian (53:39):
Parents will be required
to participate.
Kathryn (53:43):
You don't have to
travel.
You see everybody on Zoom right, Right, right right, right.
Julie (53:50):
So it gave that
opportunity to teach people and
it gave me the time to be ableto create programs.
So I created a program calledcommunication for education with
my business partner, lisamahalik quinn, who who's based
in Maryland.
Out there she has a businesscalled Reach Every Voice.
(54:10):
We partnered with the Autismand Communication Center to
create communication foreducation.
So it's Lisa and I and then wewere sponsored by the Autism
Communication Center atCalifornia Lutheran University
out in Thousand Oaks, california, and we got a grant to create a
program.
(54:30):
That is amazing.
We got to hire non-speakingpeople to be contributors.
We got to ask such a widevariety of professionals to
contribute to each topic, eachmodule.
So it's a dream project.
So, yeah, I got to createsomething for people to be able
(54:51):
to take to learn these skills,and now it's taken us back.
You know pandemic and then,after the pandemic, I was able
then to train other people to dothis work.
So I have a team now who doesthe one-on-one calls, mostly on
(55:13):
Zoom, because that maintainedthat learning of.
We don't want anybody to everfeel stuck or dependent on us.
We want to teach people how tofish.
So we mostly work with peopleonline and teach them how to
fish for communication, and it'sreally freed me up to be able
(55:38):
to have a team now that doesthis.
I don't do one-on-one workanymore.
I have a small handful that Imaintain on an irregular basis
because I am traveling basicallynonstop, it feels like, and
doing different programs likecamps and all sorts of things.
Yeah, focusing on housingcommunities, focusing on so many
(55:59):
different things in a biggerpicture sort of way.
Kathryn (56:03):
Yeah so cool, but yeah,
so you've really transitioned
from this one-on-one work tothen this global scale right,
and so you're traveling allaround, you're training people.
Brian (56:15):
That's amazing, such a
great journey yeah, what can
people that are interested?
How do they go about?
So there are some onlinecourses.
What does Autistically Inclinecurrently offer and what other
resources can you share withpeople who are interested in
kind of learning more about thisnot-medicine process?
(56:41):
Love?
Julie (56:41):
it.
This work, yes, this work, loveit, yes.
So again, over the pandemic, it, just like that, gave me the
time and space to create.
So I also completely rebrandedduring the pandemic and created
a whole new system where one ofthe things that I've seen in
(57:07):
parents through the years isburnout right.
So common.
They go all in with the programthat they're into or that
they're exposed to and they gofull force and then after a
certain point of time they'reburnt out.
Time they're burnt out.
The kid's kind of dependent onthe program.
They feel stuck.
(57:28):
How, how?
So I wanted to create somethingthat was a solution to that
problem and I recognize thistook me a long time to learn
(57:49):
right.
It takes everybody a lot.
It's a.
It's not a quick, easy thing toteach somebody how to
communicate right.
So I created a three stepprocess.
One is called the first, tosprout, then grow, then flourish
.
So sprout is nine differentmindsets, because that's it's
what we kind of talked about inthe beginning of all of this.
When you start to see what'sactually happening, your mindset
(58:13):
shifts and it requires ashifted mindset for you to be
able to see new and differentthings.
So sprout is nine mindsets.
It's like you know, I thinkthere's 10 or 11 videos total
that are 10 to 13 minutes longeach, so you can be doing the
(58:34):
dishes and watching these videos.
I made it a super cheap pricepoint because I just want people
to have this knowledge, right.
So that's.
Step one is sprout minds ninemindsets.
Step two is grow.
That is, nine everyday actionsthat you can infuse into your
life Very RDI inspired, and ittalks about different ways to
(58:58):
help your your to connect withyour student.
It's all about connect first,then communicate, build trust,
build purpose and meaning intoyour everyday life.
In this way.
That doesn't feel overwhelming,because so many people don't
take those next steps, becauseit's it's a how do you?
(59:19):
We're overwhelmed already,right?
So I wanted to do bite sizedpieces.
So that's nine video.
You know, 10 or 11 videos total, giving you nine different
steps that you can take that areeasy.
Then there's flourish.
Flourish is like the big guns.
We have course materials forhow to start your communication
(59:40):
journey.
How to start your communicationjourney.
We have it's a monthlymembership, so when life gets
crazy, you just hit pause andthen you come back to it and
your community is there for you.
You've had Erin on your podcastand she is our accountability
(01:00:05):
coach, so she helps parents pickgoals each month in a
one-on-one call and gives themaction steps to be able to take.
I think you guys trained herwell, catherine, in your work
with her.
Kathryn (01:00:12):
She's amazing.
She's just amazing on her own.
Julie (01:00:16):
She is.
You're right, you're right, goodcall, but I think we're all in
the same mindset, right?
Yeah, yes, she does anaccountability call once a month
to help keep you on track.
We have communication partnercoaching calls once a month
where just the communicationpartners come and ask questions,
(01:00:39):
have a discussion, and then youget to hear the feedback in a
group call along with otherpeople's feedbacks and seeing
their videos.
So that's amazing.
And then we have weekly grouplessons where Kate or our staff
(01:01:01):
is leading a lesson and you getto practice being a
communication partner.
You don't have to think aboutthe lesson and presenting it and
all of that.
You can just focus on being acommunication partner.
You don't have to think aboutthe lesson and presenting it and
all of that.
You can just focus on being acommunication partner.
And your student gets to seeother students at various parts
of their journey.
So they're seeing I'm not alonethis other person.
(01:01:22):
They have their video offbecause they're dysregulated or
whatever it is.
We also have students who arefluent, who are in the group
lessons, so in the chat barthey're writing things that are
inspiring.
So it's a really cool Flourish,is a really cool community, and
again, we aim to keep it reallyaffordable.
(01:01:44):
The idea is, if we can helpmore people and make it
accessible, then it works out.
You know it's a win-win.
Kathryn (01:01:53):
Yeah, I love all the
steps, the process and then that
connection with the otherfamilies and, like you said, the
individuals that are learningto communicate, seeing all the
variations and that andconnecting with them, but also
the connection for the parentsright To have that community for
everybody involved.
The community part is so big,huge, I think, and just
(01:02:17):
supporting the process and thensupporting growth and
flourishing and thriving and allthose things.
So you do so much to help otherpeople.
I mentioned thrive, to helpthem thrive, to grow, to
flourish right, is thereanything that you do and you're
traveling all the time anythingthat you do to keep yourself?
(01:02:38):
Do you have a routine?
Do you have any rituals?
Do you have anything that keepsyou balanced and being able to
do all these amazing things?
Julie (01:02:46):
Fantastic question too.
So I'm learning.
It's a work in progress becauseeverything's kind of taken off
in such a big way and I'm like,but one of my clients, she's a
nurse and a mom of one of mystudents and she reached out to
me and she said I would like tobe your health coach because we
need to keep you around, andyeah, so she has taken on the
(01:03:10):
role of making sure that I'mtaking care of myself.
So that has been life changing.
It just started recently.
But having my ownaccountability coach right, I'm
so good at giving other peopleaccountability, but where's the
accountability for myself?
(01:03:34):
Shannon is the best.
She's checking in on me andshe's one of the biggest
realization she gave me is mylife is so dynamic.
There's no.
It's hard to get into a routinebecause there is no everyday
looks different, right.
So there is no routine in mylife.
So it's looking at how can Iyou know we're going to look at
how can I bring some quick andeasy things in to give myself
(01:03:59):
more attention?
And so she's helping me when Igo have a big trip plan,
schedule a massage when I comeback.
You know that's been huge.
That's a game changer.
So stuff like that I'm learning.
Yeah, it's always a process.
Kathryn (01:04:19):
Yeah, we're good.
I'm glad you're taking care ofyourself because, yeah, we do
need you around and you can'tfill an empty cup or fill
others' cups from an empty cupright.
Brian (01:04:28):
Yeah, I was thinking.
How does a parent know if thisprogram may be right for them
and their child?
Julie (01:04:37):
goodness, yes, try it,
just do it.
Why not just do it?
See what?
Kathryn (01:04:43):
happens yeah yeah yeah,
I said isn't that everything in
life?
Right, just try it.
Yes, just try it yes, yes.
Julie (01:04:56):
What do you have to lose?
What do you have to gain?
You have nothing to lose andeverything to gain.
So a lot of parents will lookfor every reason in the book
that it might not be a fit.
My kid doesn't understand, mykid is different, my kid won't
sit still.
My kid doesn't know how to readmy kid Like.
(01:05:18):
I've heard every reason why aparent shouldn't do it and those
are just, I think, protectivemechanisms, because they don't
want to be set up fordisappointment, they don't want
to be.
Uh, there and there there'sjust lots of fears, lots of
(01:05:39):
fears tied to all of this.
So communication is moreimportant than anything else.
Brian (01:05:47):
Do it and the work.
I think a lot of people, I'dimagine looking for a quick fix.
I'm going to drop them off withsomebody else.
Julie (01:05:55):
Well, you know, and
that's hard, you know nobody's
going to spend time with yourchild as a parent and love them
and have the consistency thatthey will so yes, if they can
have somebody who's there forrespite that frees them up, and
then for things like learning,whether it's RDI, aba, you know,
(01:06:19):
whatever the therapeutic orcommunication, whatever the
approach is.
It's so important for parentsto be involved in that so it's
almost like let's separate outrespite from learning.
Kathryn (01:06:36):
Yeah, I think this has
just been amazing to be able to
connect with you again, julie,and stay connected, you know,
even after us moving across thecountry, and so this is so great
.
We want to make sure thatpeople can find you, so where
can they find you?
Where are you located on theInstagram, facebook?
Brian (01:06:56):
all those things On the
internet, dang.
Julie (01:06:59):
Right on the interwebs.
Yes, yes, so onstatisticallyinclinedcom and
communicationforeducationcom.
Both also have Facebook andInstagram pages.
Brian (01:07:12):
Awesome.
And what's next for Julie Sando?
Where are you headed?
Not physically, but what's yourdreams?
What's your?
Julie (01:07:22):
five-year.
So Teva Community is somethingnear and dear to my heart.
Tevacommunityorg is alsoanother place to find me.
They are building a communityout in Arizona for spellers, for
people who communicate throughspelling in different ways, and
it's housing, it's community,it's employment, meaningful
(01:07:44):
employment, it's what happensnext.
That is something that is sodeeply implanted in my soul
because, starting in this in1998, right with that four year
old, my first kid, he is now afull out adult and it is very
much in my heart, as it is withall these families what happens
(01:08:07):
next, what happens when?
And there's just something inme that has a drive to make sure
that all of these people that Ilove so much are taken care of
in their adult lives and thatthey have autonomy, that they
have the ability to create thelife that they want as an adult,
(01:08:27):
and that is done throughcommunication, so creating a
community where they cancommunicate.
We are starting a fundraisingcampaign coming up for that to
make it happen.
We've got a property and now weneed to renovate and it's
incredible, we've gotnon-speaking people on the board
(01:08:48):
of directors.
We've got an advisory boardthat is all non-speaking people
and they are building thiscommunity how they want it to be
.
Brian (01:08:57):
That's amazing.
What's that website?
Julie (01:09:01):
Tevacommunityorg.
Brian (01:09:02):
Tevacommunity.
Are you going to be?
Julie (01:09:04):
moving to Arizona.
Are you moving to Arizona, trulyArizona, Prescott, Arizona.
So I'm just helping make ithappen, helping, you know, build
training programs,infrastructure, that sort of.
I'm just helping make it happen, helping build training
programs, infrastructure, thatsort of thing, bringing people
to it.
And so I'm five years, I'mcontinuing with Autistically
Inclined, continuing withCommunication for Education,
getting this into universitiesso that students who are
(01:09:27):
learning to become an SLP and OTare starting off with this
knowledge.
That's an avenue.
I mean there's like a millionthings that I'm doing, but they
all kind of fit together.
Yeah, it's big Stay tuned, staytuned.
Brian (01:09:43):
Oh, we're tuned, don't
you worry, we're totally tuned.
Well, julie, you've beenawesome.
We love talking to you.
Thanks for joining us.
You're the best thank you.
Kathryn (01:09:54):
We're just so grateful
to have you on.
It's always a pleasure to talkto you keep rocking thank you.
Julie (01:10:01):
I'm so grateful for the
opportunity.
I always love connecting andcollaborating with you guys, so
thank you so much.