April 8, 2025 • 51 mins
In this heartfelt episode, Mikita welcomes Lori Pappas, a woman who turned trauma into triumph and societal “supposed tos” into a life of her design. Lori shares her journey—from a childhood marked by religious trauma to building a successful business and selling it at 49, and moving to Ethiopia at 57 to empower marginalized communities. Through candid reflections, she reveals how she broke free from the “good girl” mold, healed from PTSD and found purpose in helping others discover their inner peace and wisdom. This conversation is a powerful reminder that it’s never too late to rewrite the rules and live authentically.
Key Takeaways:
- The “Good Girl” Trap Silences Us: Lori unpacks how being a “good girl” often means compliance and losing your voice—something she rejected early on, despite the cost.
- Trauma Can Be a Catalyst: Her protective shell from childhood trauma helped her succeed in a man’s world, but it also kept her emotionally distant until she faced it head-on in her 50s.
- Healing Unlocks Purpose: Confronting PTSD after her son’s accident set Lori on a path to self-awareness, leading her to a second career empowering women in Ethiopia.
- Step Out of Your Comfort Zone: Moving to a new continent at 57 taught Lori the richness of different perspectives—and the complexity of creating change without imposing your lens.
- Embrace Your Wise Woman Within: Lori’s message is clear—self-awareness, reflection, and shedding baggage allow every woman to tap into her inherent wisdom and live with intention.
- Life Happens Now: Waiting for permission keeps you small; breaking the rules and betting on yourself is how you claim the life you want.
Resources Mentioned:
- Lori’s Website: loripappas.com
- Book: The Magic of Yes: Embrace the Wise Woman Within
- Newsletter: Sticky Thoughts
- Facebook Group: The Wise Woman’s Sisterhood
- Connect with Mikita: Slide into her Instagram DMs to share your thoughts!
Call to Action:
Subscribe, rate, and review the pod
#selfdevelopment #Wellness
#thym4teawithmikita #manifest #purposefulliving #liveunapplogectically #freedom #podcast #womeninpodcast #podcastlife #empoweringwomen
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lori (00:00):
be a good girl.
What does that mean?
And the more I thought about it, that means that you're being
compliant, that you're notmaking waves, that you're
probably shutting up and you'rejust doing what you're told.
You don't have a voice.
I mean, that's how we're beingprogrammed.
Mikita (00:17):
Hey, there, I'm Makita, a small town girl with big
dreams who started a podcastwith an old headset and a laptop
at my kitchen table and made mydreams come true.
On my podcast, time for Teawith Makita, we chat about
living life unapologetically, onyour terms, from career advice,
entrepreneurship, relationshipsand everything in between.
(00:39):
This is your one-stop shop forreal conversations and
inspiration.
If you're looking forconnection, then you've found it
here.
Join me every Tuesday as wedive into those sometimes
hard-to-have conversations.
So grab your cup of tea orcoffee and get comfy, because
(01:02):
this is Time for Tea with Makita, and the tea is definitely hot.
Ever feel like you need asuperpower boost of motivation
with exclusive tips and toolswith your goals in mind?
Well, say hello to your newinspiration hotspot the Tuesday
Tea Newsletter, your weeklyinfusion of big thinking, energy
that will propel you to chaseyour wildest dreams and never
shy away from using the power ofyour voice.
Sign up for the Tuesday TeaNewsletter today at
(01:24):
beautifullyunbalancedcom andelevate your goals to the next
level.
All right, welcome back.
It is definitely time for tea.
I'm your host, nikita, and I amso honored to have you here
with me today.
So I just want to just startthis conversation off and just
being really honest, because, ifwe're real with ourselves, some
(01:47):
of us were raised on thissteady diet of be a good girl,
do the right thing, don't makewaves.
But what if everything you'vebeen taught about the right way
to live is completely BS?
Today's guest has done what mostpeople are scared to even think
about she's burned the rulebook and built a life on her
(02:10):
terms.
We're talking about all of it.
We're talking about saying noto marriages and situations that
don't serve us, and we'retalking about the idea of moving
to a whole new continent in her50s and what it really means to
say I'm done following thescript.
This isn't about reinvention.
(02:31):
It's about waking up into yourown power, buckling up and
living your dreams.
And if you are ready to rewritethe rules, then today's guest
has done just that again andagain.
She went from surviving atraumatic childhood to becoming
an award-winning entrepreneur,ditching a life that didn't fit
(02:51):
and even finding the love in herlife.
She's proof that it's never toolate to flip the script and
start living on your terms.
So grab your cup of tea, settlein and let's get comfy, and I
want you to welcome my amazingguest, ms Laura.
Laura, welcome.
Lori (03:10):
Oh, thank you, Minkita.
It's so fun to be here and Ilove the fact that you
introduced one of the phrasesthat you used when you were
introducing today's episode wasbeing a good girl, because in
one of my chapters I start thatof the book that I just wrote.
(03:31):
I start out talking about whatdoes it mean when we're young
and say, well, be a good girl,or that's a good girl, what does
that mean?
And the more I thought about it, that means that you're being
compliant, that you're notmaking waves, that you're
probably shutting up and not.
You're just doing what you'retold.
(03:52):
You're not, you don't have avoice.
I mean that's how we're beingprogrammed.
That's part of our society isbe a good girl, and I wasn't a
good girl.
I mean it didn't make sense tome.
What they were talking about alot of times didn't make sense,
or what my mother wanted me todo didn't make sense, and so I
(04:18):
said no and I got penalized abit for that, but anyway.
So what would you really liketo talk about?
Mikita (04:29):
Tell me I know you were talking a little bit just now,
you're talking about your latestbook that you just finished,
and I want people to sort of getan idea of the moment when you
had that moment, because, likeyou said, we all play by the
rules at some point and then weget to the point where, like you
(04:50):
know what, I don't want to fitin that little small box.
Like I want to have a voice.
What was that moment like foryou?
When was it?
When you were, like you knowwhat, I'm tired of living by
somebody else's rule, I'm tiredof playing it small.
I want to make waves.
I want to find my voice andbecome the person that I know
I'm meant to be.
Lori (05:10):
Wow, mine was a little out of the ordinary, because I'll
never forget the day I was whenyou're in eighth grade I think
you're about 13, something likethat and it had to have been in
the summer, because I remember Ihad a girlfriend that had
stayed overnight and my bedroomwas downstairs and my bathroom
(05:31):
was right next to it.
And all of a sudden my mothercame into the bathroom when I
was in there and locked the door.
And then she said well, what Iwant you to do is, instead of
what you had planned, you needto clean out the cupboards and
do this and that, because yourAunt Alice is coming over and I
want her to think that I'm agood housekeeper.
And I said well, if you wanther to think that you're a good
(05:54):
housekeeper, then clean out thecupboard.
I mean, why the hell should Iclean out the cupboard if you're
going to be a good housekeeper?
And she just turned livid andshe started shaking her finger
in the middle of my face andsaying you're the devil, you're
not my daughter.
What is your name, devil?
I demand you, tell me your nameso I can cast you out of my
(06:17):
daughter.
And I thought, whoa, lady, youare a little wacko and she just
went on and on and all I couldthink about was well, if you're
going to yell at me, yell alittle quieter, because my
girlfriend is in the room nextdoor and I don't want her.
I don't want to be embarrassedby you.
But my mother kept demanding toknow what my name was, because
(06:43):
obviously I was the devil, and Ididn't think much of it.
I got out of the bathroom, mygirlfriend and I escaped the
house, went and did whatever wedid.
But the next day my motherdragged me to her pastor's
office and the two of them satdown in front of me and demanded
(07:05):
to know what the devil's namewas, that I was the devil and
they were going to cast thedevil out of me because I dared
to talk back.
And after that I didn't thinkabout it, but my body thought
about it and I started todissociate and I then would
(07:27):
separate from my body wheneversomething made me a little bit
uncomfortable and become anobserver.
And eventually it exacerbatedas far as my response to
anything like that and I startedthinking about well, maybe I'm
(07:48):
not worthy.
And so I started to experimentaround a little bit with well.
I tried splitting my wrist, butas soon as it hurt I stopped,
so I put a bandaid on it, and mydad noticed that the next
morning and I made the mistakeof telling him what it was, and
(08:08):
they dragged me off to apsychiatrist.
Well, the psychiatrist, afterinterviewing my mother, my
father and myself, informed methat I was going to be committed
to a nut house because my dadrefused to commit my mother, and
so if they committed me, thenthey could teach me how to deal
(08:30):
with my mother.
And I thought, well, this is alittle interesting.
I mean I've never been in a nuthouse before.
I mean let's check it out, andI mean I really didn't have a
choice, so I might as well agree.
But what happened was this wasback in the early in 19, in the
middle of 1960s, and in thosedays that was a very dangerous
(08:53):
place to be because they werestill doing lobotomies, they
were doing shock treatment.
And here I was, this young girlthat had a photographic memory,
that all of a sudden the memorygot erased as soon as they
started giving me any drugs, andI was smart enough to realize
what was happening.
And so then I started workingon how could I get out of there
(09:16):
as quickly as I could, and Imanaged to get out of there
within about two months.
But what that did was that thattaught me to really be careful
what I said and to get out oftown.
I mean, I left the next day andI moved cross country and I
(09:37):
took responsibility for my ownlife.
So the trauma was severe, butit wasn't a typical kind of
trauma that's readily recognizedby other people, in that it was
a religious herself, out withreligion, and she wasn't
(10:07):
intentionally being a bad mom.
But her own addiction to numbingherself out caused problems for
me, and what it did for me, onthe other hand, was the bad part
of it was I numbed my feelingsand I did not pay attention to
(10:32):
how my body was feeling.
But it also allowed me to grow avery strong protective shell so
that when any arrows were shotat me, I deflected them.
You know, I didn't let thingsget inside that protective shell
.
So in a way, it led me tobecome very successful in a
(10:57):
man's world where there was alot of innuendo and
discrimination or whatever.
I didn't even notice it, Iwould just trot on by and I
became very successful.
And so that was the flip sideof that abuse was that our
protective skin that I builthelped me be able to navigate in
(11:20):
a world that probably wouldhave been much different for me.
I paid a price because whenhaving children, I really wasn't
emotionally available for them,so I didn't listen in the way
(11:48):
in which they needed me tolisten, because I was still
inside my protective shell, youknow so.
It wasn't until I was in my 50sthat I dealt with that.
Mikita (11:55):
So it seems like um for a lot of us.
You know, growing up is wherewe get that foundation of how,
how to, how to be, to get tosurvive.
You know what I mean.
Like your, your childhoodintroduced you to the idea of if
I, you know, put myself in thisprotective barrier, if I just
(12:18):
say the right things, I can getout of the mental institution, I
behave the way that they wantme to, then I can escape this
part and then get to the secondpart where I can actually try to
open up and live life.
But in that process it kind ofshut you down.
It seemed you know I, yeah, andyou, you became, it seemed like
(12:41):
even more boxed in because youwere able to I'm not going to
say not feel anything, but ableto like say you know what this
doesn't.
I'm not going to let thisaffect me.
I'm not going to recognizethese emotions because I don't
have the space right now toprocess that.
So I'm not going to recognizethese emotions because I don't
have the space right now toprocess that.
So I'm only going to focus onthe things that I can process,
(13:04):
and this emotion is not one ofthem.
Lori (13:08):
Right, you're absolutely right, and that's why I think,
because I had ability to dothings, my self-worth became
defined by what I could do.
It was all the doing.
There was no being part of theequation, it was the doing part
(13:31):
of the equation.
So when I grew my business andI sold it when I was 49 and was
able to retire, and I sold itwhen I was 49 and was able to
retire, you know it looked like,oh boy, lori realized the
American dream.
Wow, she really hit the jackpot.
(13:51):
Well, yeah, but I didn't feelthat I mean so.
I did these things and and, yes, it helped a lot of people.
It was a good product, I ran agood company, all of that.
(14:15):
But accolades never got insideof me.
You know, if somebody said, wow, lori, that was really
wonderful, I would think, yeah,of course, I mean, I've got
gifts, I use my gifts, I wasable to do so.
Nothing ever got inside thatshell and it wasn't until son
(14:35):
had a horrific accident and intrying to save his life, I
became aware of how thataccident had impacted him and
then he ended up becomingaddicted to drugs.
So we had to deal with that andvisiting his rehab center, I
(14:58):
became aware of PTSD.
I had never heard ofpost-traumatic stress syndrome
before and all of a sudden Iremember sitting in a session
and afterwards going up to thefacilitator and asking them do
you think the fact that mymother thought that I was
possessed by the devil, do youthink that had any impact on me?
(15:20):
And her eyes lit up and shesays oh yeah, you know, it
definitely did.
I knew that my son's accidenthad caused PTSD, because
whenever I heard a loud noise ora siren I would just get
terrified because it would bringme back to that moment of his
accident.
But I didn't realize the damagethat my mother's and my
(15:46):
father's behavior had done whenI was a child, and so that then
set me on my healing journey andallowed me to deal with that
pathology that I had beencarrying with me for all those
years.
Mikita (16:01):
That's why my second career was so different than my
first career, you know it feelslike no one really warns you
about being this idea of beingthe perfect person.
You know they never tell youlike it's not about success.
You know it never tell you likeit's not about success.
You know it's not about beingperfect, it's not about being
(16:25):
so-called good, but it's abouttaking up space and really
living your life, your son,having that moment of reflection
and realizing and because ittakes some self reflection and
some real honest conversationswith ourselves to say you know,
(16:46):
I need to readjust some things,because this isn't quite right.
Like noticing that it was atriggering moment, noticing that
your childhood played a hugepart in you becoming who you
were, even though on the outsideit looked like you were
successful and doing great andinside you're.
Like I'm struggling here withthis whole idea of, you know,
(17:11):
being perfect, being the goodgirl, listening to my parents
saying you know I'm the devil oryou're not enough.
I mean it makes you feel likeyou're not enough and I think
we've all at some point in ourlife felt like we're not enough
For you.
What is the biggest lie ormisconception?
You think women are sold aboutsuccess, love and being this
(17:34):
good person.
Lori (17:37):
Well, for years and years and years, I really, I really
was convinced that our cultureand our society is defined by
hollywood and religion.
You know those two hollywoodputs out.
(17:58):
I was brought up in the Twiggyera, meaning that everybody
should be tiny and skinny as atwig.
Well, you know, I wasn't tinyand skinny and so therefore, I'm
not not acceptable according toHollywood, and I certainly
wasn't acceptable according tomy parents' religion, because I
(18:22):
was a devil.
So there you go.
I mean, it's that culturalconstraint, it's that whole
thing of who defined yoursupposed to's, and supposed to's
are generally defined by family, and supposed to's are
(18:43):
generally defined by family,society and culture, and that's
who defines.
Mikita (18:45):
You're supposed to um, that's supposed to, because I
grew up in the era of thesupermodels.
At the time, and the naomicamels and the cindy crawfords
and everyone in my childhoodwanted to be just like them.
Lori (19:01):
Right, right, and that defines you're supposed to, and
so it really that phrase juststarted just bugging the heck
out of me supposed to, and bygosh I wanted to define my own
supposed tos to, and by gosh Iwanted to define my own supposed
(19:23):
tos.
But where that really reallycame out was when I was doing in
the middle of my second career,living and working in Africa,
and I was working in Ethiopiaand I remember when I first
moved over there and I rememberwhen I first moved over there
and I was laying in bed onenight thinking, well, this is
(19:44):
kind of a neat opportunity inthat I'm no longer in the US, so
the US supposed tos can't touchme.
You know, I'm out of them andI'm not Ethiopian, so I'm not
controlled by the ethiopiansupposed tos.
So therefore I'm gonna have thelori supposed tos, and that
(20:08):
that really was freeing to me.
It's rather dramatic, but I waskind of a hard case, you know
yeah.
Mikita (20:19):
Did people think you were like, when you said, hey,
I'm gonna move to Ethiopia, likewhat was you?
Know the people around you,their reactions?
Or were you a little nervousabout it?
Or you're just like I'm just,I'm gonna do it and whatever
happens, happens, happens.
Lori (20:37):
Well, you know the context of it.
I was 57.
I was in my second marriage andI never had been very happy in
that marriage, even though ithad gone on and, on and on and
on.
And I had had this epiphany inNiger.
(21:00):
I was traveling around theSahara Desert and a little girl
came up to me and she had flieson her face and I realized that
that little girl was the sameage as my granddaughter and it
could have been Ella, except forthe luck.
Ella was born my granddaughter,and this little girl was born
(21:20):
into that disease-ridden life.
And at this time I had alreadydone my personal work, so I was
feeling much more comfortablewith who I was and I knew that I
wanted to help people lessfortunate and I had spent quite
(21:41):
a bit of time traveling around Ithink by then I'd been in maybe
12 different African countriesor whatever and there was
something about that continentthat just called to me.
It just felt so authentic and Iloved the drums and the,
especially when I was outtraveling with in the indigenous
(22:02):
communities.
I just was so pulled in thatarea and and I had really gotten
to a point where I think I hadalready become emotionally
divorced from that husband andso what he thought didn't count.
I think I had already becomeemotionally divorced from that
husband, and so what he thoughtdidn't count and I had my own
(22:26):
money so I could do what Iwanted.
You know, because I had sold mybusiness, I had my own money
and and I, you know, I neverthought of it as a risk.
I never thought of it as this.
I thought of it as an adventure, I thought of it as a calling
(22:47):
that what I was called to do wasto get the flies out of these
little girls' eyes.
And I ended up, one thing afteranother, I ended up in the most
marginalized area in Ethiopia,where the, quite frankly, the,
the tribal people are the onesthat are oftentimes featured in
National Geographic and whatever, because of the exotic clothes
(23:09):
and the hair and the goat skinand so forth.
And and when I first met thesetribes, I was just smitten
because I could just see thestrength in these women.
They're just incrediblestrength.
And I thought, well, they needto have a chance to have a
(23:35):
healthy life, and I'm going tofigure out how they can have
that.
So that then became my purposeand I worked there from 2007
through 2016.
Mikita (23:57):
that's amazing, um, I I really love that you you took
that journey and it.
I love the fact that first, youdid the work, because I think
the hardest part is doing thehealing work to get to a place
that you know, because I feellike being a good girl keeps you
small and the real magichappens when you stop trying to
(24:19):
make everyone else comfortableand you start living in your
truth.
And one of the places that I amplanning to go is to Africa.
That's my next stop on mybucket list of things and places
to visit, so I love that youjust didn't go out.
You went out there and youdecided I'm not just going to be
(24:42):
here, I'm going to make adifference and I'm going to
change someone else's life andgive them an opportunity to take
up space and to live in a waythat you know that makes them
feel like they have purpose aswell.
Because I think sometimes weall want to know what our
(25:02):
purpose is and we all go throughlife trying to figure out what
that is, and sometimes that'sjust helping the next person
realize their potential and thatthey're enough.
Lori (25:11):
Right, right.
But you know, the one thingthat I did learn and we did a
lot of good work, one thing thatI did learn and we did a lot of
good work we did all kinds ofinitiatives in water, sanitation
, hygiene, female reproductivehealth, environment, adult
learning, women's empowerment.
(25:32):
I mean an orphanage, I mean alot, because I'm an overachiever
.
So it doesn't matter if I'mdoing or being, I'm still
overachieving and I also was atthe right place at the right
time and by now I knew how tonetwork and to get the
connections I needed, to get thefunding I needed and that type
(25:53):
of thing.
But I'll tell you one thingthat I really learned at the
expense of others is that, eventhough I tried very, very hard
to be sensitive to the culturaldifferences, the issues and so
(26:14):
on and so forth, some thingswould just make me really angry
and the way women are treatedand their role just infuriated
me, because they're basically,you know, a little girl baby is
born and celebrated because thatmeans she's going to bring the
family wealth, because she'sgoing to be sold for bride price
(26:38):
, and they're the ones that doall the work, they haul the
water, their value is determinedby how many kids they have and
the elders.
They're generally married toelders as soon as they start
menstruating and then the elderkeeps marrying more young girls
(26:59):
as the earlier ones get worn out.
You know, it's a reallydifficult life.
So I went in there wanting tomake things better, but I had to
really really pay attention tothe cultural constraints of that
(27:21):
environment, and we wereenormously successful in a lot
of areas.
But one area where I stilldon't know, I think I probably
made a mistake.
I was having a hard timesecuring some USAID funding
because of a language and anappropriations bill, and I
(27:46):
became aware of the UnitedNations Permanent Forum for
Indigenous People and the ideabecame that if I could bring the
two women leaders that haddeveloped over the time we had
been there to the UN and thendown to meet with the right
(28:06):
Congress people, then maybe Icould get that language changed
or adjusted or interpreted in away that would not keep us from
being able to get the funds todo the kind of work that USAID
really wanted us to do.
And so I did.
I took Gulu, bola and Dobayoyta,in their goat skins and their
(28:30):
mud hair with the silly twists,and all of that, to New York
City in May of 2015.
And we went to the meetings andthey were such good sports.
Everything was so bizarre tothem.
Let me give you an idea.
The first breakfast, the guruleaned forward and asked me.
(28:52):
She said Lori, is that sun upthere the same sun we had in
Hammer, or is that a differentsun?
Did it follow us or did a newone come?
And I had to explain what itwas.
And it was just.
Everything was so differentfrom learning how to use a
(29:12):
toilet to dressing, to eatingeating with utensils.
They had never in their life,ever eaten with a spoon or a
fork or a knife, or even thequantity of food that was
available versus the little bitthat they were used to.
But it was an amazingexperience.
We spent a week in New York, aweek in Washington DC and a week
(29:37):
back.
At that time, my family wasliving in Minnesota and took
them to Minnesota, and then,when they went back to Ethiopia
and I stayed, I think I musthave stayed in the US for
another week or two, and then ittook a while before I was able
to get back down to the projectareas.
(29:58):
In that time, dobie was lockedup, she was beaten, she was
abused because she had theaudacity to say the money that
we're making at the grindingmill the women get to keep and
that was not what the elderswanted at all.
(30:20):
And Gulu ended up.
She was ostracized.
But she had a little bitdifferent position in the
community and she was able toescape the physical abuse.
The physical abuse Well, assoon as I heard, I got down to
(30:45):
the field and I was able to getthings organized, mainly because
you know I would play hardball.
You're going to have to do thisif you're going to want us to do
that type of deal.
But it made me realize did Ireally do good or did I do bad?
You know, did I really makethings better or make things
worse?
What did we really accomplish?
(31:07):
And short time after that, um,yeah, we, you know, we were able
to get the funding.
But I I felt so bad for Gulu andDobie because was that better
for them or was it worse forthem?
And now when we ask them, whatdo you remember about the trip,
(31:29):
they say, oh, that was just adream.
You know, that was just somedream I had.
I mean it become.
It was so different and it wasreally too much and too out of
context.
So you know there's lessonseverywhere.
It's just there's so manylessons and there's so much that
(31:53):
I don't know and I just I thinkwe have to be so sensitive when
we are trying to to implementchange for good.
But who's defining good orwho's who's who's pushing the
(32:16):
levers?
In the context?
You know, things get reallycomplicated.
So it was pretty black andwhite when I was younger.
Now that I'm 75, things have alot of nuances.
Mikita (32:30):
It does, especially when you talked about earlier
about how sometimes our societyand our culture really shapes
how we're supposed to live,really shapes how we're supposed
to live and for that tribe, howthey were supposed to live had
been ingrained so much in theirsociety.
And then they come to anothercountry and experience another
(32:52):
way of living and it seems grandlike we could take this back
and we could ask for more, wecould live different, but then
also recognizing that they mayhave had the experience, but
back home, in the culture thatthey come from, nothing has
changed.
And I think we've all felt likethat.
(33:12):
I've been on trips before.
I think we went over to Irelandnot too long ago and coming
back, like so much had changedfor me, like so many life
lessons, so many experiences hadhappened in that time, and I
come back home and everything'sthe same, like nothing has
(33:33):
changed, and I'm like but somuch happened, like did it, did
it really happen?
Or did I, like you said, it wasa dream?
Because when you get back home,when you get back into the
routine of your life, aroundpeople that are ingrained in
their own culture of believingwhat your role should be, how
you should fit in society.
(33:54):
Nothing has changed, so I don'tthink there's necessarily good
or bad.
I think that sometimes peoplejust need to.
Even if they don't embrace itor decide not to use it, they
know there is another way ofliving and even if they tell the
story to other kids in thevillage or mention it as a story
or something that may or maynot have happened, there is
(34:18):
still.
That element of this is anotherway of living, another
possibility, and I thinksometimes we all need to know
that, even though it seems thisway, there is another world out
there with another avenue, andwith you can live your life.
Lori (34:35):
There is.
There is, I know, for mepersonally, during that period
of time in my life I probablywas more judgmental and I was
angrier than I had been for along time.
(34:56):
Now it could be that here I was, I had already done my personal
work and so I was feeling.
So maybe I had been asjudgmental or as angry, but I
just had been able to feel itearlier.
But I remember just being soangry where it would be so easy
(35:19):
if people would just do thingsmy way.
But that wasn't the culturalway.
And I had to realize Laurie,you really don't have a say in
any of this.
And then I found myself when Iwould come back to the US for
three weeks.
It was really easy for me to bejudgmental because I couldn't
(35:42):
believe that people wouldn't.
I mean I would get so excitedthat I could go to the bathroom
in a public area and the toiletwould flush and there was toilet
paper.
I mean I just thought it wasfantastic or that I could.
I would go to a restaurant andthey would pour water in my
glass and I could drink thewater.
(36:03):
I mean I would just get soexcited about these things and
I'd want to tell everybody aboutit and you know it's odd, so it
really is quite amazing, and Ithink that's why it's so
important for people to get toknow different people, to step
(36:29):
out of your comfort zone and tobecome aware of what what things
look like looking through adifferent pair of glasses, you
know, through a different lens,and that's how we grow.
We we need to be able toexperience what we don't know,
(36:49):
what's not familiar, and I thinkthat's one of the messages I'd
really like to tell thelisteners is that there's so
much richness and so many morelayers of experience that are
available If we just step out ofour comfort zone and get to
(37:12):
know people that either don'tlook like us or don't worship
the way we do, or don't talk inthe same language, or whatever.
It's just it's so enriching.
Mikita (37:27):
Yeah, it's all about stop doing what people tell you
or expect from you and trysomething new, try something
different.
You will be surprised thepeople you meet and how they
will help you grow and shape.
Like you said, like sometimeswe take our natural comforts for
granted and it's the littlethings that we don't know how.
(37:50):
You know, like a lot of peopleand I know we're like you know
we've come so far in society butthere are.
You'd be surprised how manypeople across the world don't
have access.
(38:11):
You know it's not the same forall of us.
So I think, just stepping into,if you feel like, if that's
your purpose, if you'relistening and you feel like your
purpose is, you know biggerthan who you are and you are
willing to, or even thinkingabout it.
(38:32):
I think you know, sometimeswhen we step into that we learn
so much more about ourselves.
Lori (38:41):
Well, we learn so much more and what you know.
Right now, my goal is to helppeople find serenity, I mean,
and to find inner peace.
Find serenity, I mean, and tofind inner peace.
(39:01):
There's so many things going onin the world right now that you
and I don't have the power toinfluence, but we still have
choice.
We have choice how we're goingto respond to whatever is
swirling around us.
We can build a protectivebubble in a good way, not the
tough skin that I used to have,but we can protect ourselves and
(39:24):
focus on not making thingsworse.
And how do I make things better?
And my answer generally is thatas we cultivate inner peace, as
we understand the things thatwe can influence and what we
can't influence, that adds a lotof value, not only to ourselves
(39:50):
but to our family and to ourneighbors and our community and
so forth.
So right now, I'm all in onhelping people find more of a
sense of peace in their own skin.
To me, that's my new purpose.
Mikita (40:15):
I love that.
Your purpose is all aboutgiving back and letting people
recognize who they are in theirjourney, and sometimes we just
need people to hold space for usand tell us it's okay.
You know, I don't think no onemakes it in this world alone.
We all have people there thatare willing to be with us not
(40:39):
maybe do the work for us, but bein the journey to encourage us
and say go for it anyway, orgive us the strength and idea to
spark something in us thatmakes us realize that we are
enough.
Lori (40:59):
You know, I absolutely believe that all of us have
kernels of wisdom within us.
All of us have the opportunityand the ability to recognize the
wise woman within us, andthat's really the message I'm
(41:24):
trying to convey, and it dependson a couple of things, however.
We need to be open-minded andwe need to seek knowledge, we
need to be curious, but then theone thing that so many of us
fail to do is we need to reflecton what we've learned, because
(41:51):
if we can take time to reflect,then we're able to turn that
knowledge and information intowisdom, but if you don't take
the time and you don't reflect,you don't do that work, then you
really lose out on thatopportunity of those kernels of
(42:12):
wisdom that will help nurtureand sustain us, and nurture and
sustain those around us andthose with whom we have, over
whom we have, influence.
So that's my new passion isreally helping people recognize
their wise woman within.
Mikita (42:33):
I love that because you know what Life is happening now
and if we keep waiting forpermission, it will pass us by.
I know you yourself haveexperienced life in different
ways and in each experience ithas taught you something.
And, like you said, reflectionis everything.
And if you're able to reflect,for me, when I think about
(42:57):
reflecting, it's about having anopportunity to look back on
moments, even if they were toughmoments or uncomfortable
moments, or even in the goodmoments, to reflect on that and
then say, okay, maybe thatwasn't so bad.
What did I learn?
What did I gain?
How can I move forward the nexttime this happens?
(43:19):
Or, you know, if you know,sometimes we feel like this door
was closed or this didn't workout, but I'm always half glass
and I always feel like the glassis always half full.
So for me it's like if thatdidn't work out, it was probably
a reason.
And now I need to reflect onwhat's another avenue, where
(43:41):
else can I take this moment?
Because in every moment there'san opportunity and a choice and
a decision to do somethingbetter than you even imagine,
because it's never a door closed, it's always another door
opening.
That's just the way I see it,and I feel like every woman
should know that your life ishappening now and you should
(44:08):
never let any moment pass you by.
So when you think about thatand you think about the message
that you're putting out forwomen, what is one thing you
feel like every woman shouldknow or do in their lifetime
that will make an impact forthem?
Lori (44:28):
I think it's what we were talking about in that to really
pay attention.
I think, first of all, itstarts with self-awareness, and
(44:48):
it really really pays dividendsto become self-aware, because
then you know what you'redealing with.
If you have a tendency to reactin a negative way to a
particular trigger, be aware ofit.
It's good to be aware of it.
If you tend to act a certainway when some other stimulus
(45:13):
happens, be aware of it.
Understand what cards you hold.
You know what you've been dealtat birth and then decide how
you are going to play it.
And that's I just find that soimportant is, you can win,
everybody can win, but it's gotto be with intention and really
(45:41):
brutal self-examination andrecognizing your essence not
what do you look like, but whoare you, what's your core, the
authentic you, and then beingable to become unfettered and
(46:04):
free, being able to shed thatemotional baggage so that you
start feeling more comfortablewith defining what do you want
your moral compass to be, what?
What really is your line, what,how do you, how do you evaluate
(46:25):
things, what's your true northor what have you?
Um, and from then you're reallyable to, to weed your.
I call it weeding your ownphysiological garden, getting in
alignment with your environment, what you listen to, where you
(46:49):
spend your free time, the peopleyou choose to interact with.
I was just at a.
I'm giving you a really longanswer, but I want to just bring
in one thing.
I was just at this self-careretreat.
It was a wonderful, wonderfulthing, and we were taught this
little song that just keepsgoing on and on in my mind and
(47:13):
it says in this circle, no fear.
In this circle, safety.
In this circle, greaterhappiness.
In this circle, deep peace.
And that's what I want to besurrounded with.
I want to create a circle, andit doesn't mean that we have to
(47:38):
all be physically located in thesame place, because we can be
all across the globe and holdout our hands to each other and
be in that circle and providefor each other that sense of no
fear, safety, of more happinessand deeper peace.
(47:58):
So back to what you actuallyasked me.
I want people to recognizetheir wise woman within.
I mean, because we have thatwithin us.
We just need to peel away thelayers, but we all have it.
Mikita (48:17):
I love that.
The wise woman within us, Ilove that.
I think that's a great message,one that needs to be heard.
Well, lori, I just want tothank you so much for just
sharing your time, your spaceand your energy with us, but
before we go, I would love foryou to tell people where they
(48:38):
can connect with you and learnmore.
And just you know, sometimes weall need you know someone in
our corner, or just knowing thatthere's other people in the
world that's experienced lifeand know what it feels like to
go through life, and know whatit feels like to go through life
.
Lori (48:59):
So how can people connect with you?
Well, my name Lori Pappas, soit's L-O-R-I-P-P-A-P-P-A-S dot
com, and that has links toeverything that I do.
So right now I have my bookthat just came out a month ago,
(49:19):
called the Magic of yes.
Embrace the Wise Woman Within.
So under Lori Pappas or theMagic of yes, it's pretty easy
to find me.
Another thing I have anewsletter, sticky Thoughts,
which talks about the paths thatother extraordinary, ordinary
women have taken to find innerpeace.
(49:39):
You can sign up for that on mywebsite.
And then also I have a Facebookgroup, the Wise Woman
Sisterhood, and that's a safeplace for women to connect and
to converse and to celebrate,and that's all about what I'm
talking about with that circle,and you can get to that through
(50:01):
my website too.
So the website's the key.
So it's lauriepappascom.
Mikita (50:07):
Well, that was really simple and easy, but guess what
If you didn't write that down?
That's okay, you will findLaurie's website in the show
notes so you can learn moreabout what she do.
Sign up for those sticky notes,because I love a good news,
daughter.
That is inspiring, so I willdefinitely be checking that out,
yay.
Lori (50:28):
Yes, and the Wise Women, sisterhood.
I want you to join that as well, mitka.
Mikita (50:33):
I will.
I definitely will.
Good, all right.
You guys, if there's one thingyou take from this episode, let
it be this the life you actuallywant.
It's possible, but you don'tget there by playing small or
waiting for a sign.
You get there by deciding, byletting go of the good girl
(50:54):
routine, rewriting the rules andbetting on yourself, like your
life depends on it because itdoes.
So what is one thing you'regoing to do this week to break
the rules and start living onyour terms?
All right, you can join.
You can slide in my DMs.
You can hit me up on Instagram.
Let me know your thoughts.
(51:15):
Okay, all right, my friends,until next time, namaste.
be a good girl.
What does that mean?
And the more I thought about it, that means that you're being
compliant, that you're notmaking waves, that you're
probably shutting up and you'rejust doing what you're told.
You don't have a voice.
I mean, that's how we're beingprogrammed.
Mikita (00:17):
Hey, there, I'm Makita, a small town girl with big
dreams who started a podcastwith an old headset and a laptop
at my kitchen table and made mydreams come true.
On my podcast, time for Teawith Makita, we chat about
living life unapologetically, onyour terms, from career advice,
entrepreneurship, relationshipsand everything in between.
(00:39):
This is your one-stop shop forreal conversations and
inspiration.
If you're looking forconnection, then you've found it
here.
Join me every Tuesday as wedive into those sometimes
hard-to-have conversations.
So grab your cup of tea orcoffee and get comfy, because
(01:02):
this is Time for Tea with Makita, and the tea is definitely hot.
Ever feel like you need asuperpower boost of motivation
with exclusive tips and toolswith your goals in mind?
Well, say hello to your newinspiration hotspot the Tuesday
Tea Newsletter, your weeklyinfusion of big thinking, energy
that will propel you to chaseyour wildest dreams and never
shy away from using the power ofyour voice.
Sign up for the Tuesday TeaNewsletter today at
(01:24):
beautifullyunbalancedcom andelevate your goals to the next
level.
All right, welcome back.
It is definitely time for tea.
I'm your host, nikita, and I amso honored to have you here
with me today.
So I just want to just startthis conversation off and just
being really honest, because, ifwe're real with ourselves, some
(01:47):
of us were raised on thissteady diet of be a good girl,
do the right thing, don't makewaves.
But what if everything you'vebeen taught about the right way
to live is completely BS?
Today's guest has done what mostpeople are scared to even think
about she's burned the rulebook and built a life on her
(02:10):
terms.
We're talking about all of it.
We're talking about saying noto marriages and situations that
don't serve us, and we'retalking about the idea of moving
to a whole new continent in her50s and what it really means to
say I'm done following thescript.
This isn't about reinvention.
(02:31):
It's about waking up into yourown power, buckling up and
living your dreams.
And if you are ready to rewritethe rules, then today's guest
has done just that again andagain.
She went from surviving atraumatic childhood to becoming
an award-winning entrepreneur,ditching a life that didn't fit
(02:51):
and even finding the love in herlife.
She's proof that it's never toolate to flip the script and
start living on your terms.
So grab your cup of tea, settlein and let's get comfy, and I
want you to welcome my amazingguest, ms Laura.
Laura, welcome.
Lori (03:10):
Oh, thank you, Minkita.
It's so fun to be here and Ilove the fact that you
introduced one of the phrasesthat you used when you were
introducing today's episode wasbeing a good girl, because in
one of my chapters I start thatof the book that I just wrote.
(03:31):
I start out talking about whatdoes it mean when we're young
and say, well, be a good girl,or that's a good girl, what does
that mean?
And the more I thought about it, that means that you're being
compliant, that you're notmaking waves, that you're
probably shutting up and not.
You're just doing what you'retold.
(03:52):
You're not, you don't have avoice.
I mean that's how we're beingprogrammed.
That's part of our society isbe a good girl, and I wasn't a
good girl.
I mean it didn't make sense tome.
What they were talking about alot of times didn't make sense,
or what my mother wanted me todo didn't make sense, and so I
(04:18):
said no and I got penalized abit for that, but anyway.
So what would you really liketo talk about?
Mikita (04:29):
Tell me I know you were talking a little bit just now,
you're talking about your latestbook that you just finished,
and I want people to sort of getan idea of the moment when you
had that moment, because, likeyou said, we all play by the
rules at some point and then weget to the point where, like you
(04:50):
know what, I don't want to fitin that little small box.
Like I want to have a voice.
What was that moment like foryou?
When was it?
When you were, like you knowwhat, I'm tired of living by
somebody else's rule, I'm tiredof playing it small.
I want to make waves.
I want to find my voice andbecome the person that I know
I'm meant to be.
Lori (05:10):
Wow, mine was a little out of the ordinary, because I'll
never forget the day I was whenyou're in eighth grade I think
you're about 13, something likethat and it had to have been in
the summer, because I remember Ihad a girlfriend that had
stayed overnight and my bedroomwas downstairs and my bathroom
(05:31):
was right next to it.
And all of a sudden my mothercame into the bathroom when I
was in there and locked the door.
And then she said well, what Iwant you to do is, instead of
what you had planned, you needto clean out the cupboards and
do this and that, because yourAunt Alice is coming over and I
want her to think that I'm agood housekeeper.
And I said well, if you wanther to think that you're a good
(05:54):
housekeeper, then clean out thecupboard.
I mean, why the hell should Iclean out the cupboard if you're
going to be a good housekeeper?
And she just turned livid andshe started shaking her finger
in the middle of my face andsaying you're the devil, you're
not my daughter.
What is your name, devil?
I demand you, tell me your nameso I can cast you out of my
(06:17):
daughter.
And I thought, whoa, lady, youare a little wacko and she just
went on and on and all I couldthink about was well, if you're
going to yell at me, yell alittle quieter, because my
girlfriend is in the room nextdoor and I don't want her.
I don't want to be embarrassedby you.
But my mother kept demanding toknow what my name was, because
(06:43):
obviously I was the devil, and Ididn't think much of it.
I got out of the bathroom, mygirlfriend and I escaped the
house, went and did whatever wedid.
But the next day my motherdragged me to her pastor's
office and the two of them satdown in front of me and demanded
(07:05):
to know what the devil's namewas, that I was the devil and
they were going to cast thedevil out of me because I dared
to talk back.
And after that I didn't thinkabout it, but my body thought
about it and I started todissociate and I then would
(07:27):
separate from my body wheneversomething made me a little bit
uncomfortable and become anobserver.
And eventually it exacerbatedas far as my response to
anything like that and I startedthinking about well, maybe I'm
(07:48):
not worthy.
And so I started to experimentaround a little bit with well.
I tried splitting my wrist, butas soon as it hurt I stopped,
so I put a bandaid on it, and mydad noticed that the next
morning and I made the mistakeof telling him what it was, and
(08:08):
they dragged me off to apsychiatrist.
Well, the psychiatrist, afterinterviewing my mother, my
father and myself, informed methat I was going to be committed
to a nut house because my dadrefused to commit my mother, and
so if they committed me, thenthey could teach me how to deal
(08:30):
with my mother.
And I thought, well, this is alittle interesting.
I mean I've never been in a nuthouse before.
I mean let's check it out, andI mean I really didn't have a
choice, so I might as well agree.
But what happened was this wasback in the early in 19, in the
middle of 1960s, and in thosedays that was a very dangerous
(08:53):
place to be because they werestill doing lobotomies, they
were doing shock treatment.
And here I was, this young girlthat had a photographic memory,
that all of a sudden the memorygot erased as soon as they
started giving me any drugs, andI was smart enough to realize
what was happening.
And so then I started workingon how could I get out of there
(09:16):
as quickly as I could, and Imanaged to get out of there
within about two months.
But what that did was that thattaught me to really be careful
what I said and to get out oftown.
I mean, I left the next day andI moved cross country and I
(09:37):
took responsibility for my ownlife.
So the trauma was severe, butit wasn't a typical kind of
trauma that's readily recognizedby other people, in that it was
a religious herself, out withreligion, and she wasn't
(10:07):
intentionally being a bad mom.
But her own addiction to numbingherself out caused problems for
me, and what it did for me, onthe other hand, was the bad part
of it was I numbed my feelingsand I did not pay attention to
(10:32):
how my body was feeling.
But it also allowed me to grow avery strong protective shell so
that when any arrows were shotat me, I deflected them.
You know, I didn't let thingsget inside that protective shell
.
So in a way, it led me tobecome very successful in a
(10:57):
man's world where there was alot of innuendo and
discrimination or whatever.
I didn't even notice it, Iwould just trot on by and I
became very successful.
And so that was the flip sideof that abuse was that our
protective skin that I builthelped me be able to navigate in
(11:20):
a world that probably wouldhave been much different for me.
I paid a price because whenhaving children, I really wasn't
emotionally available for them,so I didn't listen in the way
(11:48):
in which they needed me tolisten, because I was still
inside my protective shell, youknow so.
It wasn't until I was in my 50sthat I dealt with that.
Mikita (11:55):
So it seems like um for a lot of us.
You know, growing up is wherewe get that foundation of how,
how to, how to be, to get tosurvive.
You know what I mean.
Like your, your childhoodintroduced you to the idea of if
I, you know, put myself in thisprotective barrier, if I just
(12:18):
say the right things, I can getout of the mental institution, I
behave the way that they wantme to, then I can escape this
part and then get to the secondpart where I can actually try to
open up and live life.
But in that process it kind ofshut you down.
It seemed you know I, yeah, andyou, you became, it seemed like
(12:41):
even more boxed in because youwere able to I'm not going to
say not feel anything, but ableto like say you know what this
doesn't.
I'm not going to let thisaffect me.
I'm not going to recognizethese emotions because I don't
have the space right now toprocess that.
So I'm not going to recognizethese emotions because I don't
have the space right now toprocess that.
So I'm only going to focus onthe things that I can process,
(13:04):
and this emotion is not one ofthem.
Lori (13:08):
Right, you're absolutely right, and that's why I think,
because I had ability to dothings, my self-worth became
defined by what I could do.
It was all the doing.
There was no being part of theequation, it was the doing part
(13:31):
of the equation.
So when I grew my business andI sold it when I was 49 and was
able to retire, and I sold itwhen I was 49 and was able to
retire, you know it looked like,oh boy, lori realized the
American dream.
Wow, she really hit the jackpot.
(13:51):
Well, yeah, but I didn't feelthat I mean so.
I did these things and and, yes, it helped a lot of people.
It was a good product, I ran agood company, all of that.
(14:15):
But accolades never got insideof me.
You know, if somebody said, wow, lori, that was really
wonderful, I would think, yeah,of course, I mean, I've got
gifts, I use my gifts, I wasable to do so.
Nothing ever got inside thatshell and it wasn't until son
(14:35):
had a horrific accident and intrying to save his life, I
became aware of how thataccident had impacted him and
then he ended up becomingaddicted to drugs.
So we had to deal with that andvisiting his rehab center, I
(14:58):
became aware of PTSD.
I had never heard ofpost-traumatic stress syndrome
before and all of a sudden Iremember sitting in a session
and afterwards going up to thefacilitator and asking them do
you think the fact that mymother thought that I was
possessed by the devil, do youthink that had any impact on me?
(15:20):
And her eyes lit up and shesays oh yeah, you know, it
definitely did.
I knew that my son's accidenthad caused PTSD, because
whenever I heard a loud noise ora siren I would just get
terrified because it would bringme back to that moment of his
accident.
But I didn't realize the damagethat my mother's and my
(15:46):
father's behavior had done whenI was a child, and so that then
set me on my healing journey andallowed me to deal with that
pathology that I had beencarrying with me for all those
years.
Mikita (16:01):
That's why my second career was so different than my
first career, you know it feelslike no one really warns you
about being this idea of beingthe perfect person.
You know they never tell youlike it's not about success.
You know it never tell you likeit's not about success.
You know it's not about beingperfect, it's not about being
(16:25):
so-called good, but it's abouttaking up space and really
living your life, your son,having that moment of reflection
and realizing and because ittakes some self reflection and
some real honest conversationswith ourselves to say you know,
(16:46):
I need to readjust some things,because this isn't quite right.
Like noticing that it was atriggering moment, noticing that
your childhood played a hugepart in you becoming who you
were, even though on the outsideit looked like you were
successful and doing great andinside you're.
Like I'm struggling here withthis whole idea of, you know,
(17:11):
being perfect, being the goodgirl, listening to my parents
saying you know I'm the devil oryou're not enough.
I mean it makes you feel likeyou're not enough and I think
we've all at some point in ourlife felt like we're not enough
For you.
What is the biggest lie ormisconception?
You think women are sold aboutsuccess, love and being this
(17:34):
good person.
Lori (17:37):
Well, for years and years and years, I really, I really
was convinced that our cultureand our society is defined by
hollywood and religion.
You know those two hollywoodputs out.
(17:58):
I was brought up in the Twiggyera, meaning that everybody
should be tiny and skinny as atwig.
Well, you know, I wasn't tinyand skinny and so therefore, I'm
not not acceptable according toHollywood, and I certainly
wasn't acceptable according tomy parents' religion, because I
(18:22):
was a devil.
So there you go.
I mean, it's that culturalconstraint, it's that whole
thing of who defined yoursupposed to's, and supposed to's
are generally defined by family, and supposed to's are
(18:43):
generally defined by family,society and culture, and that's
who defines.
Mikita (18:45):
You're supposed to um, that's supposed to, because I
grew up in the era of thesupermodels.
At the time, and the naomicamels and the cindy crawfords
and everyone in my childhoodwanted to be just like them.
Lori (19:01):
Right, right, and that defines you're supposed to, and
so it really that phrase juststarted just bugging the heck
out of me supposed to, and bygosh I wanted to define my own
supposed tos to, and by gosh Iwanted to define my own supposed
(19:23):
tos.
But where that really reallycame out was when I was doing in
the middle of my second career,living and working in Africa,
and I was working in Ethiopiaand I remember when I first
moved over there and I rememberwhen I first moved over there
and I was laying in bed onenight thinking, well, this is
(19:44):
kind of a neat opportunity inthat I'm no longer in the US, so
the US supposed tos can't touchme.
You know, I'm out of them andI'm not Ethiopian, so I'm not
controlled by the ethiopiansupposed tos.
So therefore I'm gonna have thelori supposed tos, and that
(20:08):
that really was freeing to me.
It's rather dramatic, but I waskind of a hard case, you know
yeah.
Mikita (20:19):
Did people think you were like, when you said, hey,
I'm gonna move to Ethiopia, likewhat was you?
Know the people around you,their reactions?
Or were you a little nervousabout it?
Or you're just like I'm just,I'm gonna do it and whatever
happens, happens, happens.
Lori (20:37):
Well, you know the context of it.
I was 57.
I was in my second marriage andI never had been very happy in
that marriage, even though ithad gone on and, on and on and
on.
And I had had this epiphany inNiger.
(21:00):
I was traveling around theSahara Desert and a little girl
came up to me and she had flieson her face and I realized that
that little girl was the sameage as my granddaughter and it
could have been Ella, except forthe luck.
Ella was born my granddaughter,and this little girl was born
(21:20):
into that disease-ridden life.
And at this time I had alreadydone my personal work, so I was
feeling much more comfortablewith who I was and I knew that I
wanted to help people lessfortunate and I had spent quite
(21:41):
a bit of time traveling around Ithink by then I'd been in maybe
12 different African countriesor whatever and there was
something about that continentthat just called to me.
It just felt so authentic and Iloved the drums and the,
especially when I was outtraveling with in the indigenous
(22:02):
communities.
I just was so pulled in thatarea and and I had really gotten
to a point where I think I hadalready become emotionally
divorced from that husband andso what he thought didn't count.
I think I had already becomeemotionally divorced from that
husband, and so what he thoughtdidn't count and I had my own
(22:26):
money so I could do what Iwanted.
You know, because I had sold mybusiness, I had my own money
and and I, you know, I neverthought of it as a risk.
I never thought of it as this.
I thought of it as an adventure, I thought of it as a calling
(22:47):
that what I was called to do wasto get the flies out of these
little girls' eyes.
And I ended up, one thing afteranother, I ended up in the most
marginalized area in Ethiopia,where the, quite frankly, the,
the tribal people are the onesthat are oftentimes featured in
National Geographic and whatever, because of the exotic clothes
(23:09):
and the hair and the goat skinand so forth.
And and when I first met thesetribes, I was just smitten
because I could just see thestrength in these women.
They're just incrediblestrength.
And I thought, well, they needto have a chance to have a
(23:35):
healthy life, and I'm going tofigure out how they can have
that.
So that then became my purposeand I worked there from 2007
through 2016.
Mikita (23:57):
that's amazing, um, I I really love that you you took
that journey and it.
I love the fact that first, youdid the work, because I think
the hardest part is doing thehealing work to get to a place
that you know, because I feellike being a good girl keeps you
small and the real magichappens when you stop trying to
(24:19):
make everyone else comfortableand you start living in your
truth.
And one of the places that I amplanning to go is to Africa.
That's my next stop on mybucket list of things and places
to visit, so I love that youjust didn't go out.
You went out there and youdecided I'm not just going to be
(24:42):
here, I'm going to make adifference and I'm going to
change someone else's life andgive them an opportunity to take
up space and to live in a waythat you know that makes them
feel like they have purpose aswell.
Because I think sometimes weall want to know what our
(25:02):
purpose is and we all go throughlife trying to figure out what
that is, and sometimes that'sjust helping the next person
realize their potential and thatthey're enough.
Lori (25:11):
Right, right.
But you know, the one thingthat I did learn and we did a
lot of good work, one thing thatI did learn and we did a lot of
good work we did all kinds ofinitiatives in water, sanitation
, hygiene, female reproductivehealth, environment, adult
learning, women's empowerment.
(25:32):
I mean an orphanage, I mean alot, because I'm an overachiever
.
So it doesn't matter if I'mdoing or being, I'm still
overachieving and I also was atthe right place at the right
time and by now I knew how tonetwork and to get the
connections I needed, to get thefunding I needed and that type
(25:53):
of thing.
But I'll tell you one thingthat I really learned at the
expense of others is that, eventhough I tried very, very hard
to be sensitive to the culturaldifferences, the issues and so
(26:14):
on and so forth, some thingswould just make me really angry
and the way women are treatedand their role just infuriated
me, because they're basically,you know, a little girl baby is
born and celebrated because thatmeans she's going to bring the
family wealth, because she'sgoing to be sold for bride price
(26:38):
, and they're the ones that doall the work, they haul the
water, their value is determinedby how many kids they have and
the elders.
They're generally married toelders as soon as they start
menstruating and then the elderkeeps marrying more young girls
(26:59):
as the earlier ones get worn out.
You know, it's a reallydifficult life.
So I went in there wanting tomake things better, but I had to
really really pay attention tothe cultural constraints of that
(27:21):
environment, and we wereenormously successful in a lot
of areas.
But one area where I stilldon't know, I think I probably
made a mistake.
I was having a hard timesecuring some USAID funding
because of a language and anappropriations bill, and I
(27:46):
became aware of the UnitedNations Permanent Forum for
Indigenous People and the ideabecame that if I could bring the
two women leaders that haddeveloped over the time we had
been there to the UN and thendown to meet with the right
(28:06):
Congress people, then maybe Icould get that language changed
or adjusted or interpreted in away that would not keep us from
being able to get the funds todo the kind of work that USAID
really wanted us to do.
And so I did.
I took Gulu, bola and Dobayoyta,in their goat skins and their
(28:30):
mud hair with the silly twists,and all of that, to New York
City in May of 2015.
And we went to the meetings andthey were such good sports.
Everything was so bizarre tothem.
Let me give you an idea.
The first breakfast, the guruleaned forward and asked me.
(28:52):
She said Lori, is that sun upthere the same sun we had in
Hammer, or is that a differentsun?
Did it follow us or did a newone come?
And I had to explain what itwas.
And it was just.
Everything was so differentfrom learning how to use a
(29:12):
toilet to dressing, to eatingeating with utensils.
They had never in their life,ever eaten with a spoon or a
fork or a knife, or even thequantity of food that was
available versus the little bitthat they were used to.
But it was an amazingexperience.
We spent a week in New York, aweek in Washington DC and a week
(29:37):
back.
At that time, my family wasliving in Minnesota and took
them to Minnesota, and then,when they went back to Ethiopia
and I stayed, I think I musthave stayed in the US for
another week or two, and then ittook a while before I was able
to get back down to the projectareas.
(29:58):
In that time, dobie was lockedup, she was beaten, she was
abused because she had theaudacity to say the money that
we're making at the grindingmill the women get to keep and
that was not what the elderswanted at all.
(30:20):
And Gulu ended up.
She was ostracized.
But she had a little bitdifferent position in the
community and she was able toescape the physical abuse.
The physical abuse Well, assoon as I heard, I got down to
(30:45):
the field and I was able to getthings organized, mainly because
you know I would play hardball.
You're going to have to do thisif you're going to want us to do
that type of deal.
But it made me realize did Ireally do good or did I do bad?
You know, did I really makethings better or make things
worse?
What did we really accomplish?
(31:07):
And short time after that, um,yeah, we, you know, we were able
to get the funding.
But I I felt so bad for Gulu andDobie because was that better
for them or was it worse forthem?
And now when we ask them, whatdo you remember about the trip,
(31:29):
they say, oh, that was just adream.
You know, that was just somedream I had.
I mean it become.
It was so different and it wasreally too much and too out of
context.
So you know there's lessonseverywhere.
It's just there's so manylessons and there's so much that
(31:53):
I don't know and I just I thinkwe have to be so sensitive when
we are trying to to implementchange for good.
But who's defining good orwho's who's who's pushing the
(32:16):
levers?
In the context?
You know, things get reallycomplicated.
So it was pretty black andwhite when I was younger.
Now that I'm 75, things have alot of nuances.
Mikita (32:30):
It does, especially when you talked about earlier
about how sometimes our societyand our culture really shapes
how we're supposed to live,really shapes how we're supposed
to live and for that tribe, howthey were supposed to live had
been ingrained so much in theirsociety.
And then they come to anothercountry and experience another
(32:52):
way of living and it seems grandlike we could take this back
and we could ask for more, wecould live different, but then
also recognizing that they mayhave had the experience, but
back home, in the culture thatthey come from, nothing has
changed.
And I think we've all felt likethat.
(33:12):
I've been on trips before.
I think we went over to Irelandnot too long ago and coming
back, like so much had changedfor me, like so many life
lessons, so many experiences hadhappened in that time, and I
come back home and everything'sthe same, like nothing has
(33:33):
changed, and I'm like but somuch happened, like did it, did
it really happen?
Or did I, like you said, it wasa dream?
Because when you get back home,when you get back into the
routine of your life, aroundpeople that are ingrained in
their own culture of believingwhat your role should be, how
you should fit in society.
(33:54):
Nothing has changed, so I don'tthink there's necessarily good
or bad.
I think that sometimes peoplejust need to.
Even if they don't embrace itor decide not to use it, they
know there is another way ofliving and even if they tell the
story to other kids in thevillage or mention it as a story
or something that may or maynot have happened, there is
(34:18):
still.
That element of this is anotherway of living, another
possibility, and I thinksometimes we all need to know
that, even though it seems thisway, there is another world out
there with another avenue, andwith you can live your life.
Lori (34:35):
There is.
There is, I know, for mepersonally, during that period
of time in my life I probablywas more judgmental and I was
angrier than I had been for along time.
(34:56):
Now it could be that here I was, I had already done my personal
work and so I was feeling.
So maybe I had been asjudgmental or as angry, but I
just had been able to feel itearlier.
But I remember just being soangry where it would be so easy
(35:19):
if people would just do thingsmy way.
But that wasn't the culturalway.
And I had to realize Laurie,you really don't have a say in
any of this.
And then I found myself when Iwould come back to the US for
three weeks.
It was really easy for me to bejudgmental because I couldn't
(35:42):
believe that people wouldn't.
I mean I would get so excitedthat I could go to the bathroom
in a public area and the toiletwould flush and there was toilet
paper.
I mean I just thought it wasfantastic or that I could.
I would go to a restaurant andthey would pour water in my
glass and I could drink thewater.
(36:03):
I mean I would just get soexcited about these things and
I'd want to tell everybody aboutit and you know it's odd, so it
really is quite amazing, and Ithink that's why it's so
important for people to get toknow different people, to step
(36:29):
out of your comfort zone and tobecome aware of what what things
look like looking through adifferent pair of glasses, you
know, through a different lens,and that's how we grow.
We we need to be able toexperience what we don't know,
(36:49):
what's not familiar, and I thinkthat's one of the messages I'd
really like to tell thelisteners is that there's so
much richness and so many morelayers of experience that are
available If we just step out ofour comfort zone and get to
(37:12):
know people that either don'tlook like us or don't worship
the way we do, or don't talk inthe same language, or whatever.
It's just it's so enriching.
Mikita (37:27):
Yeah, it's all about stop doing what people tell you
or expect from you and trysomething new, try something
different.
You will be surprised thepeople you meet and how they
will help you grow and shape.
Like you said, like sometimeswe take our natural comforts for
granted and it's the littlethings that we don't know how.
(37:50):
You know, like a lot of peopleand I know we're like you know
we've come so far in society butthere are.
You'd be surprised how manypeople across the world don't
have access.
(38:11):
You know it's not the same forall of us.
So I think, just stepping into,if you feel like, if that's
your purpose, if you'relistening and you feel like your
purpose is, you know biggerthan who you are and you are
willing to, or even thinkingabout it.
(38:32):
I think you know, sometimeswhen we step into that we learn
so much more about ourselves.
Lori (38:41):
Well, we learn so much more and what you know.
Right now, my goal is to helppeople find serenity, I mean,
and to find inner peace.
Find serenity, I mean, and tofind inner peace.
(39:01):
There's so many things going onin the world right now that you
and I don't have the power toinfluence, but we still have
choice.
We have choice how we're goingto respond to whatever is
swirling around us.
We can build a protectivebubble in a good way, not the
tough skin that I used to have,but we can protect ourselves and
(39:24):
focus on not making thingsworse.
And how do I make things better?
And my answer generally is thatas we cultivate inner peace, as
we understand the things thatwe can influence and what we
can't influence, that adds a lotof value, not only to ourselves
(39:50):
but to our family and to ourneighbors and our community and
so forth.
So right now, I'm all in onhelping people find more of a
sense of peace in their own skin.
To me, that's my new purpose.
Mikita (40:15):
I love that.
Your purpose is all aboutgiving back and letting people
recognize who they are in theirjourney, and sometimes we just
need people to hold space for usand tell us it's okay.
You know, I don't think no onemakes it in this world alone.
We all have people there thatare willing to be with us not
(40:39):
maybe do the work for us, but bein the journey to encourage us
and say go for it anyway, orgive us the strength and idea to
spark something in us thatmakes us realize that we are
enough.
Lori (40:59):
You know, I absolutely believe that all of us have
kernels of wisdom within us.
All of us have the opportunityand the ability to recognize the
wise woman within us, andthat's really the message I'm
(41:24):
trying to convey, and it dependson a couple of things, however.
We need to be open-minded andwe need to seek knowledge, we
need to be curious, but then theone thing that so many of us
fail to do is we need to reflecton what we've learned, because
(41:51):
if we can take time to reflect,then we're able to turn that
knowledge and information intowisdom, but if you don't take
the time and you don't reflect,you don't do that work, then you
really lose out on thatopportunity of those kernels of
(42:12):
wisdom that will help nurtureand sustain us, and nurture and
sustain those around us andthose with whom we have, over
whom we have, influence.
So that's my new passion isreally helping people recognize
their wise woman within.
Mikita (42:33):
I love that because you know what Life is happening now
and if we keep waiting forpermission, it will pass us by.
I know you yourself haveexperienced life in different
ways and in each experience ithas taught you something.
And, like you said, reflectionis everything.
And if you're able to reflect,for me, when I think about
(42:57):
reflecting, it's about having anopportunity to look back on
moments, even if they were toughmoments or uncomfortable
moments, or even in the goodmoments, to reflect on that and
then say, okay, maybe thatwasn't so bad.
What did I learn?
What did I gain?
How can I move forward the nexttime this happens?
(43:19):
Or, you know, if you know,sometimes we feel like this door
was closed or this didn't workout, but I'm always half glass
and I always feel like the glassis always half full.
So for me it's like if thatdidn't work out, it was probably
a reason.
And now I need to reflect onwhat's another avenue, where
(43:41):
else can I take this moment?
Because in every moment there'san opportunity and a choice and
a decision to do somethingbetter than you even imagine,
because it's never a door closed, it's always another door
opening.
That's just the way I see it,and I feel like every woman
should know that your life ishappening now and you should
(44:08):
never let any moment pass you by.
So when you think about thatand you think about the message
that you're putting out forwomen, what is one thing you
feel like every woman shouldknow or do in their lifetime
that will make an impact forthem?
Lori (44:28):
I think it's what we were talking about in that to really
pay attention.
I think, first of all, itstarts with self-awareness, and
(44:48):
it really really pays dividendsto become self-aware, because
then you know what you'redealing with.
If you have a tendency to reactin a negative way to a
particular trigger, be aware ofit.
It's good to be aware of it.
If you tend to act a certainway when some other stimulus
(45:13):
happens, be aware of it.
Understand what cards you hold.
You know what you've been dealtat birth and then decide how
you are going to play it.
And that's I just find that soimportant is, you can win,
everybody can win, but it's gotto be with intention and really
(45:41):
brutal self-examination andrecognizing your essence not
what do you look like, but whoare you, what's your core, the
authentic you, and then beingable to become unfettered and
(46:04):
free, being able to shed thatemotional baggage so that you
start feeling more comfortablewith defining what do you want
your moral compass to be, what?
What really is your line, what,how do you, how do you evaluate
(46:25):
things, what's your true northor what have you?
Um, and from then you're reallyable to, to weed your.
I call it weeding your ownphysiological garden, getting in
alignment with your environment, what you listen to, where you
(46:49):
spend your free time, the peopleyou choose to interact with.
I was just at a.
I'm giving you a really longanswer, but I want to just bring
in one thing.
I was just at this self-careretreat.
It was a wonderful, wonderfulthing, and we were taught this
little song that just keepsgoing on and on in my mind and
(47:13):
it says in this circle, no fear.
In this circle, safety.
In this circle, greaterhappiness.
In this circle, deep peace.
And that's what I want to besurrounded with.
I want to create a circle, andit doesn't mean that we have to
(47:38):
all be physically located in thesame place, because we can be
all across the globe and holdout our hands to each other and
be in that circle and providefor each other that sense of no
fear, safety, of more happinessand deeper peace.
(47:58):
So back to what you actuallyasked me.
I want people to recognizetheir wise woman within.
I mean, because we have thatwithin us.
We just need to peel away thelayers, but we all have it.
Mikita (48:17):
I love that.
The wise woman within us, Ilove that.
I think that's a great message,one that needs to be heard.
Well, lori, I just want tothank you so much for just
sharing your time, your spaceand your energy with us, but
before we go, I would love foryou to tell people where they
(48:38):
can connect with you and learnmore.
And just you know, sometimes weall need you know someone in
our corner, or just knowing thatthere's other people in the
world that's experienced lifeand know what it feels like to
go through life, and know whatit feels like to go through life
.
Lori (48:59):
So how can people connect with you?
Well, my name Lori Pappas, soit's L-O-R-I-P-P-A-P-P-A-S dot
com, and that has links toeverything that I do.
So right now I have my bookthat just came out a month ago,
(49:19):
called the Magic of yes.
Embrace the Wise Woman Within.
So under Lori Pappas or theMagic of yes, it's pretty easy
to find me.
Another thing I have anewsletter, sticky Thoughts,
which talks about the paths thatother extraordinary, ordinary
women have taken to find innerpeace.
(49:39):
You can sign up for that on mywebsite.
And then also I have a Facebookgroup, the Wise Woman
Sisterhood, and that's a safeplace for women to connect and
to converse and to celebrate,and that's all about what I'm
talking about with that circle,and you can get to that through
(50:01):
my website too.
So the website's the key.
So it's lauriepappascom.
Mikita (50:07):
Well, that was really simple and easy, but guess what
If you didn't write that down?
That's okay, you will findLaurie's website in the show
notes so you can learn moreabout what she do.
Sign up for those sticky notes,because I love a good news,
daughter.
That is inspiring, so I willdefinitely be checking that out,
yay.
Lori (50:28):
Yes, and the Wise Women, sisterhood.
I want you to join that as well, mitka.
Mikita (50:33):
I will.
I definitely will.
Good, all right.
You guys, if there's one thingyou take from this episode, let
it be this the life you actuallywant.
It's possible, but you don'tget there by playing small or
waiting for a sign.
You get there by deciding, byletting go of the good girl
(50:54):
routine, rewriting the rules andbetting on yourself, like your
life depends on it because itdoes.
So what is one thing you'regoing to do this week to break
the rules and start living onyour terms?
All right, you can join.
You can slide in my DMs.
You can hit me up on Instagram.
Let me know your thoughts.
(51:15):
Okay, all right, my friends,until next time, namaste.
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