April 16, 2024 • 49 mins
In this heartwarming episode, join us as we delve into the extraordinary story of Jonathan, a man who received a second chance at life thanks to a heart transplant from a woman donor. Discover how this rare match not only saved his life but also brought with it unique challenges and insights. Jonathan shares his journey from the brink of death to a miraculous recovery, highlighting the emotional and physical adjustments of living with a heart that once beat in another's chest.
Listen as Jonathan reflects on the profound connection he feels with his donor and explores the medical and personal implications of having a heart from a woman. We'll discuss the nuances of gender in organ transplantation, including how this affects everything from immune response to hormone interactions, and what it means for Jonathan’s day-to-day life.
Tune in to hear a tale of resilience, gratitude, and the unanticipated bonds formed through organ donation. It's a conversation about beating the odds, embracing new beginnings, and the incredible journey of carrying a heart across gender lines. Join us for "Heart to Heart: Jonathan’s Life with a Woman’s Gift" and be inspired by the power of generosity and the human spirit.
#selfdevelopment #Wellness
#thym4teawithmikita #manifest #purposefulliving #liveunapplogectically #freedom #podcast #womeninpodcast #podcastlife #empoweringwomen
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I was going to lose a heart and I get another disease
.
So I thought I was going to belike a perfect heart and
ironically, it's not a perfectheart.
It's someone else's DNA, it'san organ, you know.
I mean the big organs arekidneys, liver, heart, lungs.
But a heart controls youremotions, your personality.
(00:24):
It so affects a person.
You know you don't talk to aperson who's like, oh, I got a
liver.
It's like, okay, you know, yougot a liver, but I got a heart.
That's so much impactful.
So when I got the heart, I justthought it was like cool, hey,
I got a woman's heart.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Hey there, I'm a woman's heart.
Life unapologetically on yourterms.
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(01:29):
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(01:49):
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Welcome back.
It is definitely time for sometea.
I am Makita.
I just want to thank you somuch for sharing your time, your
space and, of course, youramazing energy with me today.
(02:10):
Today, you guys, I have anincredible special guest with an
equally remarkable story.
As Norman Cousins said, thetragedy of life is not death,
but what we let die inside of uswhile we live.
Our guest today embodies thespirit of living life to its
fullest, having undergone aheart transplant and receiving a
woman's heart.
(02:30):
Now, that is just the tip ofthe tea.
We haven't even got all the wayin it.
So I want to welcome Jonathan.
He has a remarkable story aboutresilience, humor and he's
transformed dramatically.
Story about resilience, humorand he's transformed
dramatically after heart failure, after a stroke in 2008, and a
(02:53):
heart transplant in 2002, whilehe continued his successful
career as a reality TV andfeature film producer.
His story is one that ispowerful.
It is an example of overcomingadversity and maintaining a
positive outlook through life'smost challenging moments.
So, Jonathan, first of all,welcome.
I am so honored to have youhere.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Well, likewise, I'm honored to be your guest and I'm
happy to involve your audienceand I'm ready to, you know, have
on your show.
I'd love to hear your questions.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Awesome.
I just think it's like such anamazing story that you have and
I know that like I have liketons of questions.
I know my audience is like ohmy gosh, you just like gave us
just this little sneak peek inhere Like what is happening,
what is going on.
But before we dive into likereceiving you know, having the
(03:50):
heart transplant and getting youknow actual woman's heart, can
you kind of just start by justwalking us through but first
tell us a little bit about youand then what led up to the
heart surgery, and then we'lldive a little bit more into it.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
So as you mentioned, I was a film producer.
I went um to a film festival inpark city, um, and I was coming
back home selling my movie andI suffered two massive strokes,
a little bit of brain injury,and I woke up not being able to
(04:33):
speak.
I had this condition calledaphasia.
So it was two strokes, heartfailure, which is like a heart
attack, and then I woke uphaving aphasia and I couldn't
speak.
I can hear you talking to me,but I couldn't communicate with
you and it's very frustratingwhen you're in that position.
(04:57):
Oh yes, I couldn't imagine whatthat must have felt like really
must have felt like, really,yeah, you're trapped inside your
own body and you can't expressyourself because all the
synapses in your brain are notconnected.
They're, they're, they're,they're not able to communicate
(05:18):
with you.
And ultimately, when I was ableto talk, I use this analogy all
like like a supermarket.
So when you go to thesupermarket, you go directly to
the milks.
You want milk, you want butter,whatever you want, you go
directly to it.
I have to go the long wayaround.
I have to, like, really thinkthrough the process and then I
(05:41):
zero in on what I need to get,but I can't get because the
brain is not functioningcorrectly.
I don't go directly to thething that we wanted.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Gotcha.
So after you had the stroke,you end up with congestive heart
failure and then you find outnow I need a heart transplant.
What was that process?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So I mean, like you know, I, I want to.
I think we, we, we have to goback a step.
So I had, I had the stroke, Ihad heart failure, I had aphasia
because you're a nurse, youkind of know what, what, what
kind of the medical issues.
So then I had what's called adefibrillator, and the
defibrillator was an implanteddevice.
(06:31):
So everyone's familiar with yougo to sporting events or social
events, they have on the wall adefib and they say stand back,
stand back, stand back.
And I had that implanted in myheart.
So I had two defibrillators.
First one was for eight yearsand then second one was for four
(06:56):
or five years.
And it shocks my heart in orderto get the heart back on track.
And every time it shocks yourheart it breaks down the heart.
So it's not like the heartbounces back because it got
shocked.
It takes a toll on the heart.
(07:17):
So I had a defibrillator for 16years and I knew that I it was a
ticking clock for me.
I knew that I'm gonna get aheart transplant and I didn't
want to face the reality ofdealing with that.
I wanted to work, I wanted tomax out the heart, the heart
(07:39):
that I had, in order to prolongit.
Because if I got a heart when Iwas 45 years old, which is
that's when I got the stroke andheart failure, I simple math 20
years later you're probablygoing to be, you're probably
going to die.
Right, you have to be, you know, being be blunt about it.
(08:01):
So you have to kind of evaluatedo I want to get the heart now
live 20 years and then 65,probably going to be dead, or
how long can this heart go on?
So I wanted to run out theclock on that heart.
So eventually the heart failedand so I had you know not to get
(08:26):
into the details, but I wasrushed to the hospital and I was
.
The whole hospital told meyou're not gonna leave here
until you get a new heart, andgetting the new heart for me,
when it leads up to getting thewoman's heart, because I was in
the hospital for 30 days, one ofyour questions was like how do
(08:49):
you match the heart?
So it, as you know it's, it'sbody, you know you're, you're,
you're, you're, you're, um, howbig you are.
Right, I'm pretty small.
So I was always joking hey, Icould get an adolescent's heart,
I can get a woman's heart, Ican get a man's heart, but it
(09:12):
has to be a small man, so I hadto get a heart that fits into my
body, so a woman's heart wouldbe.
You know, I I didn't know.
It was a perfect match, andthen it's all about the blood,
so it has to be blood.
It has to be the match with thesame size and also, you know,
(09:35):
weirdly enough, location.
I was like in the hospital.
They didn't have to call me.
I was in the hospital ready toready to go, and it 30 days.
I didn't want what's called ahep C heart.
There's lots of reasons Ididn't want to do that.
I thought, stupidly enough, Iwas going to get one disease, I
(09:57):
was going to lose a heart and Iget another disease.
So I thought I was going to belike a perfect heart, perfect
heart.
And ironically, it's not aperfect heart, it's someone
else's DNA in your body.
It's an organ, you know.
I mean the big organs arekidneys, liver, heart, lungs.
But a heart controls your, youknow, your, your, your emotions,
(10:25):
your personality there thereare.
It's so it affects a person.
You know.
You don't talk to a personwho's like, oh, I got a liver.
It's like, okay, you know, yougot a liver, but I got a heart.
That's so much impactful.
So when I got the heart, youknow, one of your questions was
like, you know, when I got theheart, you know, one of your
(10:46):
questions was like, you know,when I got the heart, you know,
you know what was?
You know?
Kind of like you know my, youknow my emotions, and and I
didn't really care, I justthought it was like, cool, hey,
I got us.
I got a woman's heart because Icould get, as I said, the kids
heart, woman.
I got a woman's heart because Icould get, as I said, a kid's
heart, a woman's heart, a man'sheart.
(11:08):
So for me it's like am I gonnaget menopause?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
what goes into that?
What happens yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
well, I didn't get menopause right now.
Maybe maybe I told my wife it'spre-menopause, but I definitely
get cold flashes, but I don'tget hot flashes yet.
We don't know for sure.
Hopefully not, yeah, okay, so,um so, uh, so.
So, going back to the the, youknow the heart, so I, I there
(11:43):
are differences know getting awoman's heart, all jokes aside,
I can go to a man's bathroom, awoman's bathroom.
I'm definitely the he, she, butyou know all my scars are pretty
much well, there are visiblescars when they um, uh, made the
(12:04):
incision where they have to cutyour, from your, your kind of,
your neck to your, your, yourbelly button, and they have to,
kind of, you know it's, it's,you know, put you on a what's
called an ECMO machine, uh, inorder for you to breathe,
because you, when they're movingyour heart, you know it's, it's
(12:27):
, you're, you're not breathing,so they have to give you, like a
ventilator, life support.
So when I got the heart, youknow what was the, the, the, the
, the kind of emotions when youget an organ and specifically in
my case, it's a heart, the, the.
The question is did the donorhave any other issues?
(12:52):
Well, yeah, I, I didn't knowthe donor had two major issues
was spasms in the heart.
So my heart spasms and I wasinto the.
I was in the hospital last year.
(13:13):
You know, each time I go tohospital it's usually for five
to seven days.
So I was in the hospital twotimes last year for seven days,
and, and, and.
The first time it's like, youknow, you know your heart is
spasming and all the doctorslook at, you know, the monitors,
and, and, and, and, the, the,the, the, the cardiologist.
(13:38):
They just look at the monitorslike, well, I don't see your
heart spasming.
It's like you know.
I finally got a doctor who isyou know, I would say 50 to 60.
He was the head of the hearttransplant team and I said look,
(13:59):
I want you to touch me.
You know they don't want totouch you.
I want you to touch me.
You know they don't want totouch you.
So I want you to put your handson my heart.
And it's going to happen everyminute.
I don't know what the monitorsare telling you, but it doesn't
show up.
If you put your hands on myheart, you'll feel it.
You put his hand on my heart.
(14:20):
He said yeah, you're right, yougot and I've seen it before
because you don't want to be ina position like where the
doctor's like I've never seenthis before, huh, and you don't
want to see panic on their faces.
You want to see, I'm calm, I'veseen this before.
This is how we're going to dealwith it.
Um, so they the, the.
(14:43):
The heart spasm was.
They gave me some drugs and itcleared it up.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
That's amazing.
When you first had the heartspasm, were you kind of like, oh
my gosh, I'm going to be backin the hospital and maybe
getting a new heart.
Or did you kind of likerationale, like it has to be
something else going on, or likewhere was your mindset when you
first felt that?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Well, when, as you know as a nurse, it presents
like a heart attack.
So I thought I was having aheart attack.
So paramedics they came, youknow, and paramedics thought you
(15:30):
know I was having a heartattack.
So it was a spasm, but itpresented like a heart attack.
So that's why they weretreating me for a heart attack
versus spasms in the heart.
So we cleared that up.
And then the donor has a virusand everyone has lots of viruses
(15:55):
in their body and you havedefense mechanisms that you know
um in your body, that that thatdeal with you.
You have usually it's calledantibodies, so it deals with
your antibodies and and it andit um presents, uh, the
(16:16):
antibodies, and the antibodiesyou know deal with what the
virus is.
And you, you know, you don'treally feel too much.
Maybe you're down for a day ortwo, but anyway.
So the heart, the donor, had avirus called CMV it's common
chickenpox or something right,it's, it's common like chicken
(16:41):
pox or something right.
So I didn't have that drug, Ididn't have that virus.
So I was called a mismatch.
She had it, 50 of the, youraudience probably has it.
I didn't have it.
So again, that shows up um inyour blood when they take me off
certain drugs, because I wasfor the first year I was on
(17:03):
certain drugs and then they tookme off those drugs and then
three months later, boom, I gotCMV and they're treating me for
that currently.
So I currently have that virusand we're just waiting for my
antibodies to kick in and help.
Right now I'm on a virus med tomake that virus kind of
(17:28):
non-detectable.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, and this happened like right after,
because you're normally on ayear just to make sure that you
don't reject the, the heart, um.
So right after you came off ofthat, then you, then the virus
was like ah, I'm here, causewhere do you go?
Those drugs go away so I cancome out and play Right.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Right, that virus was rampant, rampant it was and and
it really attacked my pancreas.
You know I didn't really knowmuch about the body, even my, my
own body.
You know.
You know I, I knew a few thingslike where's the heart and
where's the lungs, but but youknow, now I'm much more familiar
and I can talk about.
(18:16):
You know, I didn't even knowwhat my pancreas was.
I mean, I know it's part of myGI tract or my stomach, or where
is the pancreas, but I didn'teven know where the pancreas was
.
And then this virus attacked mypancreas so it caused, you know
, a lot of stomach aches, to putit mildly.
(18:39):
To figure out, you know forlisteners, and you know it
affects me, so I'm treated.
It's now getting better.
That's all I can say, that isdefinitely good.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, so I mean so I know getting a woman's heart is
very rare it's not uncommon, butit's very rare for a man to get
a woman's heart.
Um, and then, like you said,you have to go through all the
you know you have to make surethat the, the skeleton muscles,
was right, making sure the size,the blood match, the tissue
(19:13):
type.
It's a whole lot that goes intoit.
And as you're going through soyou just it happened in 2022 and
you finished up the first year.
We're going into 2024 now andnow you're on the medication for
(19:33):
the CMV.
So people that don't know, cmvis a virus that is related to
chicken pox, to keep it simple,because we all know what chicken
pox is but it can lie dormantand then react.
So everything's different whenyou're getting someone else's,
(19:56):
you know organs and the heart ishuge, like coming home.
Like, after all of that cause,you're already in the hospital
for 30 days going through thewhole process of getting matched
and getting the heart, and thenyou then it's time to come home
.
How was, how was thattransition Like after having
heart surgery and then cominghome?
(20:18):
Was there like a support systemwhere you, like, I just want to
be left alone and do it myself,or like how was that for you?
Because it's you were veryactive.
You did a lot, like you're usedto doing right.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I mean just to just to put in reference, like the,
the woman's heart is smallerthan the average man's heart.
Not much, but it's a littlesmaller.
The women have what's called anejection fraction, that it kind
of pumps more than a man'sheart, which is good.
Women tend to have lower bloodpressure.
(20:55):
Um, uh, women tend to havelower, lower blood pressure.
Um, and when you get the heartfrom you know when, when the
heart transplant from a man, awoman, to a man, life expectancy
is a little shorter.
Okay, so coming home, I justwanted to take a shower.
I mean, you know, I mean, youknow it's really nice having,
(21:16):
you know, being bathed by yournurse and some of them are kind
and nice and some of them arenot so kind and nice and being
bathed by a sponge bath.
I just wanted to take a shower.
(21:36):
So again, you can't directlyshower.
You have to have a methodologythat you use to take a shower.
I desperately tried, you know Ineeded a walker, so I kind of
took my life in and I lost a lotof weight.
(22:02):
So I was like 125 pounds.
I came home about 98 pounds, soa lot of muscle had atrophied.
I wanted to try to get moreweight on.
I wanted to try to get you knowmore weight on.
I wanted to walk and it's babysteps.
It's just like baby steps andliterally, everyone has heard
(22:27):
the expression you know one stepat a time and literally,
figuratively, literally, I wastaking one step at a time.
Figuratively, literally, I wastaking one step at a time.
I had a two.
I have a house, I have atwo-story house.
It was a challenge to get upthe, the stairs, um and um, but,
but I wanted to be active.
(22:47):
And again I had physicaltherapy.
I had um, um, people that, uh,you know, through the hospital,
helped me get back and I alwayswanted to kind of restart myself
.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I love that resilience that you had and
you're right, you know, the moreresearch I did and I talked to
some doctors and it was amazingto know that, like women hearts
are actually, they're stronger.
They are smaller but they'reactually stronger and there is
such a bigger mortality rate fora man to receive a woman's
(23:28):
heart.
When they first told you thatthey go over, like you know,
like, hey, you know there's a23% chance like this may not
work out.
You know even, hey, you knowthere's a 23, 23% chance Like
this may not work out.
You know, even after we do it,um or that, any of that kind of
happened and you're like I don'tknow, or I know you mentioned
before, like you were like,let's get it done.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, like, again, I was in the
hospital for 30 days.
Heart was not, you know, comingup.
Um, uh, I, you, uh, I, you knowI was offered the woman's heart
.
I thought it was kind of, youknow, interesting.
I didn't do any research, butyou know, you also, when you get
a heart, there's a, there's.
(24:08):
You don't want to reject theheart, like, oh, I really want a
man's heart.
Even I'm a man, I want a man'sheart.
I don't want a woman's heart.
Even if I'm a man, I want aman's heart, I don't want a
woman's heart.
You know, you don't want to belike that person and you think,
and they say, you know theywould not put you back in the
(24:29):
back of the line.
But there's always that feelinglike, hey, it's a woman's heart
, you're the right size, it'sthe right match.
Nah, I don't's a woman's heart,you're the right size, it's the
right match.
Um, yeah, I don't want awoman's heart.
Uh, I'll take it.
You know, and at that point Iwas on four IVs to keep me alive
.
You know, I was really you knowwhat's it called, you know,
(24:51):
definitely sick and um, so, youknow, after you pass 30 days,
you, you get into anothercategory in the hospital, but I
didn't have a choice in thematter because they offered it
and I accepted it.
Do you know I didn't like think.
(25:11):
You know, I didn't really thinkthrough it and I'm, you know I
mean other than the fact thatthere was.
So you know, these two issues,that ongoing issues that I'm
dealing with.
You know, I'm happy, I wrote aletter to the donor thanking her
, but I didn't write the letterimmediately.
I wrote the letter after a yearbecause the first time it's like
(25:32):
, oh, I'm so excited to get aheart.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Time it's like, oh, I'm soexcited to get a heart, thank
you, thank you, thank you.
And and you don't even know thedonors, family, if they're
gonna respond or not, becauseyou see these videos on YouTube.
It's like, oh, the family's soexcited and they become friends
and they're, you know, partyingtogether and socializing.
You know that's rare, by theway, that is very rare, these
(25:53):
videos that they have on YouTube.
But I responded after a yearand and appreciated that that
they gave me, you know, their,their, their, I guess, their,
their daughter's or mother'sheart, but they didn't respond
to me.
But that's okay.
But so you know it's, it's it's,you know, going through the
(26:18):
kind of shock of getting awoman's heart and going through
the emotions you know we touchedupon.
You know that there are threetypes of you know.
I mean, when you get a heart,there are what's called cellular
, you know the cells communicateright.
(26:39):
So the brain, you think thebrain does everything, but there
are memories, literallycellular memories, not like your
brain.
You can remember yesterday andyou can remember, you know,
going out with your mother, youknow, a month ago.
No, it's cellular memories withthat that the heart has.
(27:02):
And so I want to touch about youknow how did it change my
personality and and and how didit change my emotions?
So I, I think I think mypersonality, you know, and I
don't know if it was my emotionsand my personality have changed
(27:23):
that much, but they're almostlike enhanced, you know, I mean,
you know I, you know I'm aneurotic, but I'm much more
neurotic.
Do you know what I'm saying?
You know, and, and I think youknow my, my, my, my openness,
(27:45):
you know I used to keep thingsprivate.
I would never do a podcast.
This was not me, social mediadoing a podcast.
But right now I feel like Ihave a good story to tell and I
don't want to be the only oneand my wife to tell that story
to, because she gets bored,because she's heard it so many
(28:07):
times.
But at the same time, you know,I wanted to talk, to talk to
friends and family about this,and and this changed in me, um,
(28:28):
and and maybe it was, you know,um, the change of personality or
just the, the, the strugglesthat I've been, uh, under for
the last 16 years.
So I'm much more open today andyou know, I always thought I was
an extrovert, but there's apart of me that is much more,
you know, extroverted today,that is open.
(28:53):
I'm much more open today and Ithink that's based on the new
heart.
Um, and then, you know, kind oflike, all the emotions I the,
my emotional, they always sayyour emotional IQ, um, you know,
when I had the stroke, both ofmy kids said you know, my
(29:17):
emotional IQ is like you don'thave, you don't, you don't
censor what you're saying, youjust talk, and sometimes it's
it's it's hurtful, especiallyfor them.
So you know, I'm much moreaware of how I come across and
sometimes too, aware that I'mlike, oh, what is Makeda
(29:39):
thinking?
I mean, like you know, did Isay the right thing.
So I'm much more empathetic andsensitive, you know, today than
I was before.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Do you think that's part of the cellular cell
memories from the heart that theperson had before you?
That contributes to some ofthat being more extroverted,
having more emotionalintelligence, or you think it's
more of just a new appreciationfor life and the opportunity
(30:20):
that it's given you?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
You know that's a very good question and I also
compliment you with all yourquestions that you gave me to
prepare.
I really don't know the answerto that, you know, is it just I
had another crack at life,because this is technically not
(30:44):
my life.
Technically it's someone else'sheart that I inherited and I
want you to know, and I thinkyour listeners should know.
It's like a hard drive, right,think about it.
It's a hard drive and you get ahard.
(31:05):
It's not completely wiped clean, okay, it's not like you go to
Best Buy, get a brand new harddrive, plug it in okay, it's not
quite wiped clean.
So, and, and I think they're,you know, artifacts of the other
person in that heart.
(31:27):
Clearly it's her DNA, not myDNA, right, and it and it fuses
together.
So I think that you know whatmy experience has been and it
will continue.
You know I'm, you know I justdon't want to have rejection.
(31:51):
You know that's the big thing.
You know the heart rejects thebody, the lungs, the kidneys.
You know I really want to trynot to have that, um, and there
are, as you said, morelikelihood when, uh, from a,
from a woman to a man, a littlebit of rejection.
So I've stayed, hopefully, youknow, you know, we, we always
(32:15):
watch that when, when I do allthe um, all the angiograms, yeah
, is there.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Did they ever talk about when there's a?
When is there going to be atime when you're out of the
woods and that won't be thething that you're worried about
anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Okay, that's like again.
You know I'm still in the woodsand and I don't know if there's
ever going to be a time, youknow, but, but, but it's almost
like being having cancer.
You know, the first year you'recancer free, then you got five
years out, then you got 20 yearsout.
So I think I'm one year out ofthe heart out.
(33:05):
So I think I'm one year out ofthe heart.
I'd love to make it to five.
You know, I feel much betterafter if we have this
conversation in five years thatlike, hey, five years sober,
five years, clean, five years,whatever you want to say, but
right now I'm still dealing withit.
Whatever you want to say, butright now I'm still dealing with
it.
You know, and it's verychallenging.
You know it is not for the weakat heart, same thing with being
(33:26):
aging.
It's not for the weak at heart,it's just.
You know, the mind is probablythe most.
You know, I wouldn't sayunderlooked.
You know part of yourpersonality, but the mind
controls how you feel.
The mind controls you know allof the things, that if you can
(33:49):
change your mind, you can changeyour life.
So having a positive attitudehelps me get through the day and
you know going through, youknow I've got good days, I've
got bad days, you know, but youwant to have more good days than
(34:11):
bad days and when you wake upin the morning the sky is still
blue.
Or you know gray, but you canstill see the sky is still blue.
Or you know gray, but you canstill.
You can still see the sky, butyou want to conduct yourself in
a way that is um, you know mind,body and spirit and these
cliches have been overused somany times, but I'm living proof
(34:36):
that that a mind helps you getthrough your life and then you
do the right things.
You know you eat healthy.
You know, you know I mean, yeah, I made a movie and it was like
fast food, fried food.
You know it was, you know, andI was like everyone was eating
(34:59):
fried food.
I love fried food, but you knowlimited, so I mean it's.
You know you have to do thingsin moderation and everyone knows
that you just have to move.
You know you don't have to.
You know I like to walk.
You know you don't have to.
(35:22):
You know I like to walk morningand night because I have a dog.
You know, because because thedog says I need to, I need to
pee, I need to poop.
So same thing with my.
You know me, I need to walk, um, and I do that an hour a day,
morning and night, and then I, I, I work out every day.
These are things I do every dayand I also again, it sounds
(35:45):
really hokey you know breathingexercises and meditation ground
you you know.
It's like when you're upset orwhen your your emotions are too.
You know out of control and youjust start to breathe.
It controls your nervous systemand it allows you to get back
(36:12):
to neutral.
So you don't want to be tooslow, you don't want to be too
fast, you want to get back toneutral.
So breathing exercises I domorning and night and I do it
like for one time, I do it inthe morning at two minutes and
in the afternoon maybe eightminutes.
(36:32):
And you know if, if, if you,everyone needs like some
reminder, like, hey, am I doinga good job?
You know all these watches now,like you know all these watches
now, like you know, they don'tgive you a prize.
They don't.
Hey, you know you, you, you geta free prize on amazon.
We're going to send you a giftcertificate or something, or, or
, or, or, uh, you know, um,spaghetti sauce or something for
(36:53):
free.
But you know, they, they, they,they're positive reinforcements
.
They just allow you, like, hey,look at my Apple Watch, it's
like I did a good job, you know.
And they get excited, or thewatch says excitement.
So I like to eat well, I like towork out, I like to walk.
(37:13):
An overlooked thing is alsosleeping.
You know, I mean, I have somany beds I go, I get up a lot.
Another story I just fell downthe stairs recently and that was
, you know, a big mistake.
But you have to recover.
(37:36):
But sleep is a big, importantpart of everyone's life and good
sleep helps you get through theday, it heals you.
So my kind of what I do is tryto have what I call rigorous,
because it's not given rigorousoptimism.
(37:58):
You know, you have to work atit.
You have to work at beingoptimistic.
You know, and deal with thedepression.
You know it's like everyonegets depressed, it's like, well,
why me?
Why me?
I calculated 22 health issuesthat I've had over the last 16
(38:24):
years, including a hearttransplant.
So you know, it's not why me,it's random.
You just walk out the door.
It's the random acts of life,right?
Random acts of life, right?
Random acts of kindness, randomacts of, of, of you, you know,
(38:44):
of, of just dealing with life.
So I think that is my message.
You know, life can change in amoment.
You know, when I, when I sold mymovie 16 years ago at Sundance
and was so excited that we soldour movie and the next day, boom
, my life changed, I lost mybusiness, I couldn't speak.
(39:09):
You know, um, you know, andeventually, when I I was able to
speak, I spoke on a monotonelevel.
I, there, there was like whenyou speak, your, your voice goes
.
You know, it goes up and down,the rhythm of your speech.
Mine was like a foreign personspeaking English.
(39:31):
There was no, it just soundedlike one level.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
You sounded like the dry eyes commercial.
Yeah, the guy that did the dryeyes commercial.
It was just that.
One syllable tone, no pitchchange, just yeah, exactly so.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I mean, my cousins thought I was like I'm, I'm.
They thought I was like swedish, because, because you didn't
have any change in yourtemperament, your voice goes up
and down.
Yes, so I still suffer fromaphasia.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, I mean after a stroke and having dysphagia, I'm
sure, like that's a permanentthing, unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Yeah, I fake it.
Well, but you know, there,there, you know, there are
moments.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Definitely.
I want to say that I love theway that you are redefining your
version of self-care and I likethe fact that you mentioned
that you know it all starts withyour mind, because the mind is
powerful.
It is powerful and you do haveto work at being optimistic.
I think I'm one of the mostoptimistic peoples in the world,
(40:47):
but even me, I also have baddays.
No one's perfect.
You're not going to have agreat day every day.
But, like you said, there areways that you can incorporate
things.
You try them out.
They don't work for you, trysomething different.
But I am a big believer inbreath exercises and meditation.
(41:07):
They are very grounding, theyare very centering and you can
do it anywhere.
It anywhere.
That's why I love breathexercises.
I used to really into yoga, butthere's no way I'm going to the
hospital and do a downward dogon the floor or do all this
stuff, but I can go into a roomand I can breathe and I can have
(41:31):
a moment of silence and collectmyself, become centered, use
the power of my mind to getmyself back to a place where I'm
calm and that I can have theemotional intelligence I need to
, like you say, offer someonesome kindness that day, or just
be grateful for everything thatI have.
(41:53):
You can always count manythings that you're grateful for.
Even if it's just being thefirst person in line at the
Starbucks to get the coffee, itdoesn't matter.
Whatever you're grateful for,just you know, hold on to that
and let that carry you and dosomething kind.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Yeah, I mean like I wanted to write my story, which
is unwritten, but you know, inthe next year it could be worse,
you know, I mean it could beworse.
You know I wouldn't want to bein Ukraine being bombed.
(42:29):
I wouldn't want to be in Israelor Gaza being bombed.
So it's like you know.
It's so.
You know, we all take thingsfor granted and I love you said
like, you know, first line andStarbucks, but we don't.
(42:49):
We don't, we're so busy andwe're so mindless and everyone.
You know.
I think the whole culture now isgetting back to like you know,
you're going to die if you don'tdo some exercise.
Whatever you, whatever, youknow, the life expectancy is
(43:11):
diff, is very different thanpeople, from people who exercise
and people that don't exercise.
I want to be that person thatexercises.
There's very differentdifferences in people who eat
healthy or just eat.
You know French fries all thetime, everything you know.
(43:32):
We've been taught as kids like,and you dissed, your, your
parents, it's like, you know,maybe, maybe, even though they
didn't, they, they, they, theypreach it, but they don't
practice it.
You know you just try to eathealthier.
You know, every meal, havesomething that's good for you.
(43:53):
You know, and then you know, Imean I can't emphasize you know.
You know the again, as we goback to what we're saying, it's
your mind, you're.
You know it's a mind is aterrible, terrible thing to
waste.
You know, if you're not usingyour mind to control your
behavior, if you're not usingyour mind to control, you know
(44:15):
there are things in life thatare random.
It's not you, it's not God,it's not you know these things
happen and so you have to acceptrandomness or the chaos in life
and life is chaotic, but youhave to kind of find your own
(44:37):
path through the chaos and thesimple things you're talking
about, and I'm talking abouthelp you manage your day to day.
You know we're not talking aboutwhat you want to do in three
months.
You know, because you don'teven know in three months if
you're going to be able to dowhat you want to do.
(44:58):
But you can control the do, butyou can control the only people
you can control is you.
You know I always thought Icontrol my wife and my kids and
my friends.
It's like, no, the only personyou can control is you and your
emotions and what you think.
That's it.
You can.
You can influence other people.
Hey, this is what I think thisis, you know, but I I try to do
(45:21):
things now in a way, not like,uh, didactically, this is what
you want to do, you know.
It's like, hey, did you everthink about this approach to
life?
And a lot of people have neverthought about other scenarios,
and then you just bring that up.
Hey, you know, maybe it doesnot work for you, maybe it is,
(45:44):
but do you ever think aboutthings, you know?
You know you can go, you putyour clothes on one way.
Did you ever think, because ithelps your brain not to put your
pants on first, put your shirtfirst, because you just, you
know, in a weird way it changesthings up and that actually, oh,
(46:06):
I don't have thought about that, but you should just do it once
in a while.
You know, do things that younormally do with your right hand
and and do it on your left, on,on your left hand or left hand.
Be a right person.
So you have to do these thingsthat your brain is not used to
(46:27):
and it helps you.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Simple tasks, simple tasks, simple things you can do
every day.
Well, jonathan, I just reallywant to thank you for just
sharing your story, yourresilience and your journey with
us, and I am very curious tosee, in the next five years, if
(46:52):
that book is written and all thegood things that it will say as
it takes you through thejourney of your life.
I think it'd be very, veryinteresting Tell people where
they can connect with you, wherethey can learn more about who
you are in your journey.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Oh, thank you for asking that question.
So I have a website and it'scalled personalstoriesnet Could
not get the com but personalstoriesnet and that's my
personal story about what I'vegone through.
So from my heart transplant tofalling down the stairs to my
(47:30):
ICD.
I'm working on a story aboutgetting a woman's heart, so this
is a way to reach me, but atthe same time, I'm opening it up
so anyone can submit theirpersonal health story or their
personal story.
Right now I'm focusing more onhealth.
(47:50):
So if you want to reach out tome and send me an email or reach
out to the website and we wouldjust be encouraged that it's
reaching your audience and ifyou've got your personal story
(48:11):
and you want to post it on ourwebsite, I'd love that.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Oh, that is amazing.
So I know if y'all didn't getthat, that's okay.
All that information is goingto be for you in the show notes,
so don't worry if you didn'thave that pen and paper.
I will definitely have all ofJonathan's information there for
you so you can connect.
If you have a story to share,this is going to be an amazing
place to share it, and justsometimes just having an
(48:39):
opportunity to share your storyis one of the greatest gifts
ever.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yeah, yeah, I'm ultimately want to do personal
stories through my website andthen, ultimately, I'd really
like to kind of like visitpeople, to have them tell me
their personal stories and tryto sell it as a reality show
personal stories and try to sellit as a reality show.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Oh wow, Well, I can't wait to see what happens next
with that.
I think that's going to be very, very amazing.
All right, you guys, that isall the tea that we have to
spill today, but guess what?
You can join me each and everyTuesday for more delicious hot
tea.
Until next time, my friendsnamaste.
I was going to lose a heart and I get another disease
.
So I thought I was going to belike a perfect heart and
ironically, it's not a perfectheart.
It's someone else's DNA, it'san organ, you know.
I mean the big organs arekidneys, liver, heart, lungs.
But a heart controls youremotions, your personality.
(00:24):
It so affects a person.
You know you don't talk to aperson who's like, oh, I got a
liver.
It's like, okay, you know, yougot a liver, but I got a heart.
That's so much impactful.
So when I got the heart, I justthought it was like cool, hey,
I got a woman's heart.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Hey there, I'm a woman's heart.
Life unapologetically on yourterms.
From career advice,entrepreneurship, relationships
and everything in between, thisis your one-stop shop for real
conversations and inspiration.
If you're looking forconnection, then you've found it
here.
Join me every Tuesday as wedive into those sometimes hard
to have conversations.
So grab your cup of tea orcoffee and get comfy, because
this is time for Tea with Nikita, and the tea is definitely hot.
(01:29):
Ever feel like you need asuperpower boost of motivation
with exclusive tips and toolswith your goals in mind?
Well, say hello to your newinspiration hotspot the Tuesday
Tea Newsletter, your weeklyinfusion of big thinking energy
that will propel you to chaseyour wildest dreams and never
(01:49):
shy away from using the power ofyour voice.
Sign up for the Tuesday TeaNewsletter today at
beautifullyunbalancedcom andelevate your goals to the next
level.
Welcome back.
It is definitely time for sometea.
I am Makita.
I just want to thank you somuch for sharing your time, your
space and, of course, youramazing energy with me today.
(02:10):
Today, you guys, I have anincredible special guest with an
equally remarkable story.
As Norman Cousins said, thetragedy of life is not death,
but what we let die inside of uswhile we live.
Our guest today embodies thespirit of living life to its
fullest, having undergone aheart transplant and receiving a
woman's heart.
(02:30):
Now, that is just the tip ofthe tea.
We haven't even got all the wayin it.
So I want to welcome Jonathan.
He has a remarkable story aboutresilience, humor and he's
transformed dramatically.
Story about resilience, humorand he's transformed
dramatically after heart failure, after a stroke in 2008, and a
(02:53):
heart transplant in 2002, whilehe continued his successful
career as a reality TV andfeature film producer.
His story is one that ispowerful.
It is an example of overcomingadversity and maintaining a
positive outlook through life'smost challenging moments.
So, Jonathan, first of all,welcome.
I am so honored to have youhere.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Well, likewise, I'm honored to be your guest and I'm
happy to involve your audienceand I'm ready to, you know, have
on your show.
I'd love to hear your questions.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Awesome.
I just think it's like such anamazing story that you have and
I know that like I have liketons of questions.
I know my audience is like ohmy gosh, you just like gave us
just this little sneak peek inhere Like what is happening,
what is going on.
But before we dive into likereceiving you know, having the
(03:50):
heart transplant and getting youknow actual woman's heart, can
you kind of just start by justwalking us through but first
tell us a little bit about youand then what led up to the
heart surgery, and then we'lldive a little bit more into it.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
So as you mentioned, I was a film producer.
I went um to a film festival inpark city, um, and I was coming
back home selling my movie andI suffered two massive strokes,
a little bit of brain injury,and I woke up not being able to
(04:33):
speak.
I had this condition calledaphasia.
So it was two strokes, heartfailure, which is like a heart
attack, and then I woke uphaving aphasia and I couldn't
speak.
I can hear you talking to me,but I couldn't communicate with
you and it's very frustratingwhen you're in that position.
(04:57):
Oh yes, I couldn't imagine whatthat must have felt like really
must have felt like, really,yeah, you're trapped inside your
own body and you can't expressyourself because all the
synapses in your brain are notconnected.
They're, they're, they're,they're not able to communicate
(05:18):
with you.
And ultimately, when I was ableto talk, I use this analogy all
like like a supermarket.
So when you go to thesupermarket, you go directly to
the milks.
You want milk, you want butter,whatever you want, you go
directly to it.
I have to go the long wayaround.
I have to, like, really thinkthrough the process and then I
(05:41):
zero in on what I need to get,but I can't get because the
brain is not functioningcorrectly.
I don't go directly to thething that we wanted.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Gotcha.
So after you had the stroke,you end up with congestive heart
failure and then you find outnow I need a heart transplant.
What was that process?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So I mean, like you know, I, I want to.
I think we, we, we have to goback a step.
So I had, I had the stroke, Ihad heart failure, I had aphasia
because you're a nurse, youkind of know what, what, what
kind of the medical issues.
So then I had what's called adefibrillator, and the
defibrillator was an implanteddevice.
(06:31):
So everyone's familiar with yougo to sporting events or social
events, they have on the wall adefib and they say stand back,
stand back, stand back.
And I had that implanted in myheart.
So I had two defibrillators.
First one was for eight yearsand then second one was for four
(06:56):
or five years.
And it shocks my heart in orderto get the heart back on track.
And every time it shocks yourheart it breaks down the heart.
So it's not like the heartbounces back because it got
shocked.
It takes a toll on the heart.
(07:17):
So I had a defibrillator for 16years and I knew that I it was a
ticking clock for me.
I knew that I'm gonna get aheart transplant and I didn't
want to face the reality ofdealing with that.
I wanted to work, I wanted tomax out the heart, the heart
(07:39):
that I had, in order to prolongit.
Because if I got a heart when Iwas 45 years old, which is
that's when I got the stroke andheart failure, I simple math 20
years later you're probablygoing to be, you're probably
going to die.
Right, you have to be, you know, being be blunt about it.
(08:01):
So you have to kind of evaluatedo I want to get the heart now
live 20 years and then 65,probably going to be dead, or
how long can this heart go on?
So I wanted to run out theclock on that heart.
So eventually the heart failedand so I had you know not to get
(08:26):
into the details, but I wasrushed to the hospital and I was
.
The whole hospital told meyou're not gonna leave here
until you get a new heart, andgetting the new heart for me,
when it leads up to getting thewoman's heart, because I was in
the hospital for 30 days, one ofyour questions was like how do
(08:49):
you match the heart?
So it, as you know it's, it'sbody, you know you're, you're,
you're, you're, you're, um, howbig you are.
Right, I'm pretty small.
So I was always joking hey, Icould get an adolescent's heart,
I can get a woman's heart, Ican get a man's heart, but it
(09:12):
has to be a small man, so I hadto get a heart that fits into my
body, so a woman's heart wouldbe.
You know, I I didn't know.
It was a perfect match, andthen it's all about the blood,
so it has to be blood.
It has to be the match with thesame size and also, you know,
(09:35):
weirdly enough, location.
I was like in the hospital.
They didn't have to call me.
I was in the hospital ready toready to go, and it 30 days.
I didn't want what's called ahep C heart.
There's lots of reasons Ididn't want to do that.
I thought, stupidly enough, Iwas going to get one disease, I
(09:57):
was going to lose a heart and Iget another disease.
So I thought I was going to belike a perfect heart, perfect
heart.
And ironically, it's not aperfect heart, it's someone
else's DNA in your body.
It's an organ, you know.
I mean the big organs arekidneys, liver, heart, lungs.
But a heart controls your, youknow, your, your, your emotions,
(10:25):
your personality there thereare.
It's so it affects a person.
You know.
You don't talk to a personwho's like, oh, I got a liver.
It's like, okay, you know, yougot a liver, but I got a heart.
That's so much impactful.
So when I got the heart, youknow, one of your questions was
like, you know, when I got theheart, you know, one of your
(10:46):
questions was like, you know,when I got the heart, you know,
you know what was?
You know?
Kind of like you know my, youknow my emotions, and and I
didn't really care, I justthought it was like, cool, hey,
I got us.
I got a woman's heart because Icould get, as I said, the kids
heart, woman.
I got a woman's heart because Icould get, as I said, a kid's
heart, a woman's heart, a man'sheart.
(11:08):
So for me it's like am I gonnaget menopause?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
what goes into that?
What happens yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
well, I didn't get menopause right now.
Maybe maybe I told my wife it'spre-menopause, but I definitely
get cold flashes, but I don'tget hot flashes yet.
We don't know for sure.
Hopefully not, yeah, okay, so,um so, uh, so.
So, going back to the the, youknow the heart, so I, I there
(11:43):
are differences know getting awoman's heart, all jokes aside,
I can go to a man's bathroom, awoman's bathroom.
I'm definitely the he, she, butyou know all my scars are pretty
much well, there are visiblescars when they um, uh, made the
(12:04):
incision where they have to cutyour, from your, your kind of,
your neck to your, your, yourbelly button, and they have to,
kind of, you know it's, it's,you know, put you on a what's
called an ECMO machine, uh, inorder for you to breathe,
because you, when they're movingyour heart, you know it's, it's
(12:27):
, you're, you're not breathing,so they have to give you, like a
ventilator, life support.
So when I got the heart, youknow what was the, the, the, the
, the kind of emotions when youget an organ and specifically in
my case, it's a heart, the, the.
The question is did the donorhave any other issues?
(12:52):
Well, yeah, I, I didn't knowthe donor had two major issues
was spasms in the heart.
So my heart spasms and I wasinto the.
I was in the hospital last year.
(13:13):
You know, each time I go tohospital it's usually for five
to seven days.
So I was in the hospital twotimes last year for seven days,
and, and, and.
The first time it's like, youknow, you know your heart is
spasming and all the doctorslook at, you know, the monitors,
and, and, and, and, the, the,the, the, the cardiologist.
(13:38):
They just look at the monitorslike, well, I don't see your
heart spasming.
It's like you know.
I finally got a doctor who isyou know, I would say 50 to 60.
He was the head of the hearttransplant team and I said look,
(13:59):
I want you to touch me.
You know they don't want totouch you.
I want you to touch me.
You know they don't want totouch you.
So I want you to put your handson my heart.
And it's going to happen everyminute.
I don't know what the monitorsare telling you, but it doesn't
show up.
If you put your hands on myheart, you'll feel it.
You put his hand on my heart.
(14:20):
He said yeah, you're right, yougot and I've seen it before
because you don't want to be ina position like where the
doctor's like I've never seenthis before, huh, and you don't
want to see panic on their faces.
You want to see, I'm calm, I'veseen this before.
This is how we're going to dealwith it.
Um, so they the, the.
(14:43):
The heart spasm was.
They gave me some drugs and itcleared it up.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
That's amazing.
When you first had the heartspasm, were you kind of like, oh
my gosh, I'm going to be backin the hospital and maybe
getting a new heart.
Or did you kind of likerationale, like it has to be
something else going on, or likewhere was your mindset when you
first felt that?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Well, when, as you know as a nurse, it presents
like a heart attack.
So I thought I was having aheart attack.
So paramedics they came, youknow, and paramedics thought you
(15:30):
know I was having a heartattack.
So it was a spasm, but itpresented like a heart attack.
So that's why they weretreating me for a heart attack
versus spasms in the heart.
So we cleared that up.
And then the donor has a virusand everyone has lots of viruses
(15:55):
in their body and you havedefense mechanisms that you know
um in your body, that that thatdeal with you.
You have usually it's calledantibodies, so it deals with
your antibodies and and it andit um presents, uh, the
(16:16):
antibodies, and the antibodiesyou know deal with what the
virus is.
And you, you know, you don'treally feel too much.
Maybe you're down for a day ortwo, but anyway.
So the heart, the donor, had avirus called CMV it's common
chickenpox or something right,it's, it's common like chicken
(16:41):
pox or something right.
So I didn't have that drug, Ididn't have that virus.
So I was called a mismatch.
She had it, 50 of the, youraudience probably has it.
I didn't have it.
So again, that shows up um inyour blood when they take me off
certain drugs, because I wasfor the first year I was on
(17:03):
certain drugs and then they tookme off those drugs and then
three months later, boom, I gotCMV and they're treating me for
that currently.
So I currently have that virusand we're just waiting for my
antibodies to kick in and help.
Right now I'm on a virus med tomake that virus kind of
(17:28):
non-detectable.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, and this happened like right after,
because you're normally on ayear just to make sure that you
don't reject the, the heart, um.
So right after you came off ofthat, then you, then the virus
was like ah, I'm here, causewhere do you go?
Those drugs go away so I cancome out and play Right.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Right, that virus was rampant, rampant it was and and
it really attacked my pancreas.
You know I didn't really knowmuch about the body, even my, my
own body.
You know.
You know I, I knew a few thingslike where's the heart and
where's the lungs, but but youknow, now I'm much more familiar
and I can talk about.
(18:16):
You know, I didn't even knowwhat my pancreas was.
I mean, I know it's part of myGI tract or my stomach, or where
is the pancreas, but I didn'teven know where the pancreas was
.
And then this virus attacked mypancreas so it caused, you know
, a lot of stomach aches, to putit mildly.
(18:39):
To figure out, you know forlisteners, and you know it
affects me, so I'm treated.
It's now getting better.
That's all I can say, that isdefinitely good.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, so I mean so I know getting a woman's heart is
very rare it's not uncommon, butit's very rare for a man to get
a woman's heart.
Um, and then, like you said,you have to go through all the
you know you have to make surethat the, the skeleton muscles,
was right, making sure the size,the blood match, the tissue
(19:13):
type.
It's a whole lot that goes intoit.
And as you're going through soyou just it happened in 2022 and
you finished up the first year.
We're going into 2024 now andnow you're on the medication for
(19:33):
the CMV.
So people that don't know, cmvis a virus that is related to
chicken pox, to keep it simple,because we all know what chicken
pox is but it can lie dormantand then react.
So everything's different whenyou're getting someone else's,
(19:56):
you know organs and the heart ishuge, like coming home.
Like, after all of that cause,you're already in the hospital
for 30 days going through thewhole process of getting matched
and getting the heart, and thenyou then it's time to come home
.
How was, how was thattransition Like after having
heart surgery and then cominghome?
(20:18):
Was there like a support systemwhere you, like, I just want to
be left alone and do it myself,or like how was that for you?
Because it's you were veryactive.
You did a lot, like you're usedto doing right.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I mean just to just to put in reference, like the,
the woman's heart is smallerthan the average man's heart.
Not much, but it's a littlesmaller.
The women have what's called anejection fraction, that it kind
of pumps more than a man'sheart, which is good.
Women tend to have lower bloodpressure.
(20:55):
Um, uh, women tend to havelower, lower blood pressure.
Um, and when you get the heartfrom you know when, when the
heart transplant from a man, awoman, to a man, life expectancy
is a little shorter.
Okay, so coming home, I justwanted to take a shower.
I mean, you know, I mean, youknow it's really nice having,
(21:16):
you know, being bathed by yournurse and some of them are kind
and nice and some of them arenot so kind and nice and being
bathed by a sponge bath.
I just wanted to take a shower.
(21:36):
So again, you can't directlyshower.
You have to have a methodologythat you use to take a shower.
I desperately tried, you know Ineeded a walker, so I kind of
took my life in and I lost a lotof weight.
(22:02):
So I was like 125 pounds.
I came home about 98 pounds, soa lot of muscle had atrophied.
I wanted to try to get moreweight on.
I wanted to try to get you knowmore weight on.
I wanted to walk and it's babysteps.
It's just like baby steps andliterally, everyone has heard
(22:27):
the expression you know one stepat a time and literally,
figuratively, literally, I wastaking one step at a time.
Figuratively, literally, I wastaking one step at a time.
I had a two.
I have a house, I have atwo-story house.
It was a challenge to get upthe, the stairs, um and um, but,
but I wanted to be active.
(22:47):
And again I had physicaltherapy.
I had um, um, people that, uh,you know, through the hospital,
helped me get back and I alwayswanted to kind of restart myself
.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I love that resilience that you had and
you're right, you know, the moreresearch I did and I talked to
some doctors and it was amazingto know that, like women hearts
are actually, they're stronger.
They are smaller but they'reactually stronger and there is
such a bigger mortality rate fora man to receive a woman's
(23:28):
heart.
When they first told you thatthey go over, like you know,
like, hey, you know there's a23% chance like this may not
work out.
You know even, hey, you knowthere's a 23, 23% chance Like
this may not work out.
You know, even after we do it,um or that, any of that kind of
happened and you're like I don'tknow, or I know you mentioned
before, like you were like,let's get it done.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, like, again, I was in the
hospital for 30 days.
Heart was not, you know, comingup.
Um, uh, I, you, uh, I, you knowI was offered the woman's heart
.
I thought it was kind of, youknow, interesting.
I didn't do any research, butyou know, you also, when you get
a heart, there's a, there's.
(24:08):
You don't want to reject theheart, like, oh, I really want a
man's heart.
Even I'm a man, I want a man'sheart.
I don't want a woman's heart.
Even if I'm a man, I want aman's heart, I don't want a
woman's heart.
You know, you don't want to belike that person and you think,
and they say, you know theywould not put you back in the
(24:29):
back of the line.
But there's always that feelinglike, hey, it's a woman's heart
, you're the right size, it'sthe right match.
Nah, I don't's a woman's heart,you're the right size, it's the
right match.
Um, yeah, I don't want awoman's heart.
Uh, I'll take it.
You know, and at that point Iwas on four IVs to keep me alive
.
You know, I was really you knowwhat's it called, you know,
(24:51):
definitely sick and um, so, youknow, after you pass 30 days,
you, you get into anothercategory in the hospital, but I
didn't have a choice in thematter because they offered it
and I accepted it.
Do you know I didn't like think.
(25:11):
You know, I didn't really thinkthrough it and I'm, you know I
mean other than the fact thatthere was.
So you know, these two issues,that ongoing issues that I'm
dealing with.
You know, I'm happy, I wrote aletter to the donor thanking her
, but I didn't write the letterimmediately.
I wrote the letter after a yearbecause the first time it's like
(25:32):
, oh, I'm so excited to get aheart.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Time it's like, oh, I'm soexcited to get a heart, thank
you, thank you, thank you.
And and you don't even know thedonors, family, if they're
gonna respond or not, becauseyou see these videos on YouTube.
It's like, oh, the family's soexcited and they become friends
and they're, you know, partyingtogether and socializing.
You know that's rare, by theway, that is very rare, these
(25:53):
videos that they have on YouTube.
But I responded after a yearand and appreciated that that
they gave me, you know, their,their, their, I guess, their,
their daughter's or mother'sheart, but they didn't respond
to me.
But that's okay.
But so you know it's, it's it's,you know, going through the
(26:18):
kind of shock of getting awoman's heart and going through
the emotions you know we touchedupon.
You know that there are threetypes of you know.
I mean, when you get a heart,there are what's called cellular
, you know the cells communicateright.
(26:39):
So the brain, you think thebrain does everything, but there
are memories, literallycellular memories, not like your
brain.
You can remember yesterday andyou can remember, you know,
going out with your mother, youknow, a month ago.
No, it's cellular memories withthat that the heart has.
(27:02):
And so I want to touch about youknow how did it change my
personality and and and how didit change my emotions?
So I, I think I think mypersonality, you know, and I
don't know if it was my emotionsand my personality have changed
(27:23):
that much, but they're almostlike enhanced, you know, I mean,
you know I, you know I'm aneurotic, but I'm much more
neurotic.
Do you know what I'm saying?
You know, and, and I think youknow my, my, my, my openness,
(27:45):
you know I used to keep thingsprivate.
I would never do a podcast.
This was not me, social mediadoing a podcast.
But right now I feel like Ihave a good story to tell and I
don't want to be the only oneand my wife to tell that story
to, because she gets bored,because she's heard it so many
(28:07):
times.
But at the same time, you know,I wanted to talk, to talk to
friends and family about this,and and this changed in me, um,
(28:28):
and and maybe it was, you know,um, the change of personality or
just the, the, the strugglesthat I've been, uh, under for
the last 16 years.
So I'm much more open today andyou know, I always thought I was
an extrovert, but there's apart of me that is much more,
you know, extroverted today,that is open.
(28:53):
I'm much more open today and Ithink that's based on the new
heart.
Um, and then, you know, kind oflike, all the emotions I the,
my emotional, they always sayyour emotional IQ, um, you know,
when I had the stroke, both ofmy kids said you know, my
(29:17):
emotional IQ is like you don'thave, you don't, you don't
censor what you're saying, youjust talk, and sometimes it's
it's it's hurtful, especiallyfor them.
So you know, I'm much moreaware of how I come across and
sometimes too, aware that I'mlike, oh, what is Makeda
(29:39):
thinking?
I mean, like you know, did Isay the right thing.
So I'm much more empathetic andsensitive, you know, today than
I was before.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Do you think that's part of the cellular cell
memories from the heart that theperson had before you?
That contributes to some ofthat being more extroverted,
having more emotionalintelligence, or you think it's
more of just a new appreciationfor life and the opportunity
(30:20):
that it's given you?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
You know that's a very good question and I also
compliment you with all yourquestions that you gave me to
prepare.
I really don't know the answerto that, you know, is it just I
had another crack at life,because this is technically not
(30:44):
my life.
Technically it's someone else'sheart that I inherited and I
want you to know, and I thinkyour listeners should know.
It's like a hard drive, right,think about it.
It's a hard drive and you get ahard.
(31:05):
It's not completely wiped clean, okay, it's not like you go to
Best Buy, get a brand new harddrive, plug it in okay, it's not
quite wiped clean.
So, and, and I think they're,you know, artifacts of the other
person in that heart.
(31:27):
Clearly it's her DNA, not myDNA, right, and it and it fuses
together.
So I think that you know whatmy experience has been and it
will continue.
You know I'm, you know I justdon't want to have rejection.
(31:51):
You know that's the big thing.
You know the heart rejects thebody, the lungs, the kidneys.
You know I really want to trynot to have that, um, and there
are, as you said, morelikelihood when, uh, from a,
from a woman to a man, a littlebit of rejection.
So I've stayed, hopefully, youknow, you know, we, we always
(32:15):
watch that when, when I do allthe um, all the angiograms, yeah
, is there.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Did they ever talk about when there's a?
When is there going to be atime when you're out of the
woods and that won't be thething that you're worried about
anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Okay, that's like again.
You know I'm still in the woodsand and I don't know if there's
ever going to be a time, youknow, but, but, but it's almost
like being having cancer.
You know, the first year you'recancer free, then you got five
years out, then you got 20 yearsout.
So I think I'm one year out ofthe heart out.
(33:05):
So I think I'm one year out ofthe heart.
I'd love to make it to five.
You know, I feel much betterafter if we have this
conversation in five years thatlike, hey, five years sober,
five years, clean, five years,whatever you want to say, but
right now I'm still dealing withit.
Whatever you want to say, butright now I'm still dealing with
it.
You know, and it's verychallenging.
You know it is not for the weakat heart, same thing with being
(33:26):
aging.
It's not for the weak at heart,it's just.
You know, the mind is probablythe most.
You know, I wouldn't sayunderlooked.
You know part of yourpersonality, but the mind
controls how you feel.
The mind controls you know allof the things, that if you can
(33:49):
change your mind, you can changeyour life.
So having a positive attitudehelps me get through the day and
you know going through, youknow I've got good days, I've
got bad days, you know, but youwant to have more good days than
(34:11):
bad days and when you wake upin the morning the sky is still
blue.
Or you know gray, but you canstill see the sky is still blue.
Or you know gray, but you canstill.
You can still see the sky, butyou want to conduct yourself in
a way that is um, you know mind,body and spirit and these
cliches have been overused somany times, but I'm living proof
(34:36):
that that a mind helps you getthrough your life and then you
do the right things.
You know you eat healthy.
You know, you know I mean, yeah, I made a movie and it was like
fast food, fried food.
You know it was, you know, andI was like everyone was eating
(34:59):
fried food.
I love fried food, but you knowlimited, so I mean it's.
You know you have to do thingsin moderation and everyone knows
that you just have to move.
You know you don't have to.
You know I like to walk.
You know you don't have to.
(35:22):
You know I like to walk morningand night because I have a dog.
You know, because because thedog says I need to, I need to
pee, I need to poop.
So same thing with my.
You know me, I need to walk, um, and I do that an hour a day,
morning and night, and then I, I, I work out every day.
These are things I do every dayand I also again, it sounds
(35:45):
really hokey you know breathingexercises and meditation ground
you you know.
It's like when you're upset orwhen your your emotions are too.
You know out of control and youjust start to breathe.
It controls your nervous systemand it allows you to get back
(36:12):
to neutral.
So you don't want to be tooslow, you don't want to be too
fast, you want to get back toneutral.
So breathing exercises I domorning and night and I do it
like for one time, I do it inthe morning at two minutes and
in the afternoon maybe eightminutes.
(36:32):
And you know if, if, if you,everyone needs like some
reminder, like, hey, am I doinga good job?
You know all these watches now,like you know all these watches
now, like you know, they don'tgive you a prize.
They don't.
Hey, you know you, you, you geta free prize on amazon.
We're going to send you a giftcertificate or something, or, or
, or, or, uh, you know, um,spaghetti sauce or something for
(36:53):
free.
But you know, they, they, they,they're positive reinforcements
.
They just allow you, like, hey,look at my Apple Watch, it's
like I did a good job, you know.
And they get excited, or thewatch says excitement.
So I like to eat well, I like towork out, I like to walk.
(37:13):
An overlooked thing is alsosleeping.
You know, I mean, I have somany beds I go, I get up a lot.
Another story I just fell downthe stairs recently and that was
, you know, a big mistake.
But you have to recover.
(37:36):
But sleep is a big, importantpart of everyone's life and good
sleep helps you get through theday, it heals you.
So my kind of what I do is tryto have what I call rigorous,
because it's not given rigorousoptimism.
(37:58):
You know, you have to work atit.
You have to work at beingoptimistic.
You know, and deal with thedepression.
You know it's like everyonegets depressed, it's like, well,
why me?
Why me?
I calculated 22 health issuesthat I've had over the last 16
(38:24):
years, including a hearttransplant.
So you know, it's not why me,it's random.
You just walk out the door.
It's the random acts of life,right?
Random acts of life, right?
Random acts of kindness, randomacts of, of, of you, you know,
(38:44):
of, of just dealing with life.
So I think that is my message.
You know, life can change in amoment.
You know, when I, when I sold mymovie 16 years ago at Sundance
and was so excited that we soldour movie and the next day, boom
, my life changed, I lost mybusiness, I couldn't speak.
(39:09):
You know, um, you know, andeventually, when I I was able to
speak, I spoke on a monotonelevel.
I, there, there was like whenyou speak, your, your voice goes
.
You know, it goes up and down,the rhythm of your speech.
Mine was like a foreign personspeaking English.
(39:31):
There was no, it just soundedlike one level.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
You sounded like the dry eyes commercial.
Yeah, the guy that did the dryeyes commercial.
It was just that.
One syllable tone, no pitchchange, just yeah, exactly so.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I mean, my cousins thought I was like I'm, I'm.
They thought I was like swedish, because, because you didn't
have any change in yourtemperament, your voice goes up
and down.
Yes, so I still suffer fromaphasia.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, I mean after a stroke and having dysphagia, I'm
sure, like that's a permanentthing, unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Yeah, I fake it.
Well, but you know, there,there, you know, there are
moments.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Definitely.
I want to say that I love theway that you are redefining your
version of self-care and I likethe fact that you mentioned
that you know it all starts withyour mind, because the mind is
powerful.
It is powerful and you do haveto work at being optimistic.
I think I'm one of the mostoptimistic peoples in the world,
(40:47):
but even me, I also have baddays.
No one's perfect.
You're not going to have agreat day every day.
But, like you said, there areways that you can incorporate
things.
You try them out.
They don't work for you, trysomething different.
But I am a big believer inbreath exercises and meditation.
(41:07):
They are very grounding, theyare very centering and you can
do it anywhere.
It anywhere.
That's why I love breathexercises.
I used to really into yoga, butthere's no way I'm going to the
hospital and do a downward dogon the floor or do all this
stuff, but I can go into a roomand I can breathe and I can have
(41:31):
a moment of silence and collectmyself, become centered, use
the power of my mind to getmyself back to a place where I'm
calm and that I can have theemotional intelligence I need to
, like you say, offer someonesome kindness that day, or just
be grateful for everything thatI have.
(41:53):
You can always count manythings that you're grateful for.
Even if it's just being thefirst person in line at the
Starbucks to get the coffee, itdoesn't matter.
Whatever you're grateful for,just you know, hold on to that
and let that carry you and dosomething kind.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Yeah, I mean like I wanted to write my story, which
is unwritten, but you know, inthe next year it could be worse,
you know, I mean it could beworse.
You know I wouldn't want to bein Ukraine being bombed.
(42:29):
I wouldn't want to be in Israelor Gaza being bombed.
So it's like you know.
It's so.
You know, we all take thingsfor granted and I love you said
like, you know, first line andStarbucks, but we don't.
(42:49):
We don't, we're so busy andwe're so mindless and everyone.
You know.
I think the whole culture now isgetting back to like you know,
you're going to die if you don'tdo some exercise.
Whatever you, whatever, youknow, the life expectancy is
(43:11):
diff, is very different thanpeople, from people who exercise
and people that don't exercise.
I want to be that person thatexercises.
There's very differentdifferences in people who eat
healthy or just eat.
You know French fries all thetime, everything you know.
(43:32):
We've been taught as kids like,and you dissed, your, your
parents, it's like, you know,maybe, maybe, even though they
didn't, they, they, they, theypreach it, but they don't
practice it.
You know you just try to eathealthier.
You know, every meal, havesomething that's good for you.
(43:53):
You know, and then you know, Imean I can't emphasize you know.
You know the again, as we goback to what we're saying, it's
your mind, you're.
You know it's a mind is aterrible, terrible thing to
waste.
You know, if you're not usingyour mind to control your
behavior, if you're not usingyour mind to control, you know
(44:15):
there are things in life thatare random.
It's not you, it's not God,it's not you know these things
happen and so you have to acceptrandomness or the chaos in life
and life is chaotic, but youhave to kind of find your own
(44:37):
path through the chaos and thesimple things you're talking
about, and I'm talking abouthelp you manage your day to day.
You know we're not talking aboutwhat you want to do in three
months.
You know, because you don'teven know in three months if
you're going to be able to dowhat you want to do.
(44:58):
But you can control the do, butyou can control the only people
you can control is you.
You know I always thought Icontrol my wife and my kids and
my friends.
It's like, no, the only personyou can control is you and your
emotions and what you think.
That's it.
You can.
You can influence other people.
Hey, this is what I think thisis, you know, but I I try to do
(45:21):
things now in a way, not like,uh, didactically, this is what
you want to do, you know.
It's like, hey, did you everthink about this approach to
life?
And a lot of people have neverthought about other scenarios,
and then you just bring that up.
Hey, you know, maybe it doesnot work for you, maybe it is,
(45:44):
but do you ever think aboutthings, you know?
You know you can go, you putyour clothes on one way.
Did you ever think, because ithelps your brain not to put your
pants on first, put your shirtfirst, because you just, you
know, in a weird way it changesthings up and that actually, oh,
(46:06):
I don't have thought about that, but you should just do it once
in a while.
You know, do things that younormally do with your right hand
and and do it on your left, on,on your left hand or left hand.
Be a right person.
So you have to do these thingsthat your brain is not used to
(46:27):
and it helps you.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Simple tasks, simple tasks, simple things you can do
every day.
Well, jonathan, I just reallywant to thank you for just
sharing your story, yourresilience and your journey with
us, and I am very curious tosee, in the next five years, if
(46:52):
that book is written and all thegood things that it will say as
it takes you through thejourney of your life.
I think it'd be very, veryinteresting Tell people where
they can connect with you, wherethey can learn more about who
you are in your journey.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Oh, thank you for asking that question.
So I have a website and it'scalled personalstoriesnet Could
not get the com but personalstoriesnet and that's my
personal story about what I'vegone through.
So from my heart transplant tofalling down the stairs to my
(47:30):
ICD.
I'm working on a story aboutgetting a woman's heart, so this
is a way to reach me, but atthe same time, I'm opening it up
so anyone can submit theirpersonal health story or their
personal story.
Right now I'm focusing more onhealth.
(47:50):
So if you want to reach out tome and send me an email or reach
out to the website and we wouldjust be encouraged that it's
reaching your audience and ifyou've got your personal story
(48:11):
and you want to post it on ourwebsite, I'd love that.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Oh, that is amazing.
So I know if y'all didn't getthat, that's okay.
All that information is goingto be for you in the show notes,
so don't worry if you didn'thave that pen and paper.
I will definitely have all ofJonathan's information there for
you so you can connect.
If you have a story to share,this is going to be an amazing
place to share it, and justsometimes just having an
(48:39):
opportunity to share your storyis one of the greatest gifts
ever.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yeah, yeah, I'm ultimately want to do personal
stories through my website andthen, ultimately, I'd really
like to kind of like visitpeople, to have them tell me
their personal stories and tryto sell it as a reality show
personal stories and try to sellit as a reality show.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Oh wow, Well, I can't wait to see what happens next
with that.
I think that's going to be very, very amazing.
All right, you guys, that isall the tea that we have to
spill today, but guess what?
You can join me each and everyTuesday for more delicious hot
tea.
Until next time, my friendsnamaste.
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