May 13, 2025 • 32 mins
- Steven’s article “In the End God Uncreated the World” https://static1.squarespace.com/static/646fb2e88345424bf4ed337b/t/64701b1ba4720b33e4857f81/1685068573539/Quadrum3.pdf
- NT Wright’s Revelation For Everyone
- Michael Gorman’s Reading Revelation Responsibly
- Richard Bauckham’s The Theology of the Book of Revelation
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Okay, are you ready to finish this thing up?
(00:02):
I'm ready. Born ready even.
Born ready came out in the womb.
She was like, let's talk about the book of Revelation.
That's exactly what it was.
They said, my name is Meagan Lord and I said Lord.
Lord as in Revelation?
Lord as in Lord Jesus in the book of Revelation?
Welcome to TikTok Theology, a podcast that tackles the major trending pop likes on social
(00:23):
media that concern the Christian faith.
I'm Meagan.
And I'm Steven.
We know you can't form a theology in three minutes or less,
but those videos can identify current issues.
Tick Tock will give us the prompt and then we'll do a deep dive.
Thanks for joining us in this exploration.
Well friends, we're picking back up where we left off in the previous episode.
(00:46):
But you know, in the first half of Revelation, it's a little tamer.
Maybe not necessarily all the scary things that you think about when you think of the book of
Revelation.
Still pretty scary.
Still a little scary, but maybe not as typical as you feel like you might hear
Antichrist or Beast or Mark of the Beast, you know, all that good stuff.
So we're picking right back up where we left off,
(01:08):
where we will get through the rest of this book.
So we're excited for you to join us.
So Stephen, walk us through.
This is the last episode of season four.
This one for sure is.
We thought last one was going to be, but like it was too, too rich.
But JK, because it was too good.
There was too much.
It was too good.
You can't talk about the end of the world.
Just one episode.
That's like got to be a shirt.
You need to talk about the end of the world.
(01:28):
Just one episode.
You need to at least minimum, minimum.
So we'll probably bring this back up in every this starts our end of the world.
Indeed.
And also before we go, you know, I just want to make a little point as we end season four.
We've been steadily growing throughout each of these seasons and we had a lot of fun.
And hopefully you have found our podcast helpful,
(01:50):
help guiding you through turbulent, difficult times and not in a way that's
trying to indoctrinate anyone, but like, you know,
just thoughtfully looking through scripture and different things.
And hopefully, hopefully you saw that and are experiencing that.
If you like it and you want to help us grow even more,
just tell some homies about this.
You know what I mean?
Tell them about the podcast, show them specific episodes and be like,
(02:11):
Hey, listen to this.
And then yeah, let's get it going.
We've been visiting some churches and stuff and that's been awesome too.
So that's always an option.
Yeah.
I've had people who've talked to me and Stephen who said that they've listened
to our episodes before they wrote papers on certain subjects or before they
preached on certain topics.
And it's super, it's forever an honor that people will listen to the thoughts
that we have and the perspectives and the things we unpack as a way to help them
(02:33):
and reach other people.
So it's super fun and humbling to do this job.
And we'd love to continue to do that and reach more and help as many people as we
can have these kinds of conversations, especially as the world is just getting
more and more confusing.
It is not getting easier.
So yeah.
And we're not, I mean, we don't have any endorsements.
We don't have anything like that.
We're not making any money at all.
No.
We just feel like this is a sense of calling that God has put on our hearts.
(02:54):
Oh, absolutely.
And so, so hopefully you find it helpful and, and can, and if you want to,
the best way to partner with us is just get the word out.
Tell people about it.
The word friends.
All right.
So let's finish here.
So the first 11 chapters of the book of Revelation was a lot of prep work and it
ended with the massive judgments being read.
(03:15):
So the trumpets.
Okay.
So now you open the scroll, right?
The seals are all been broken.
You open the scroll and then what you're doing is the reading.
Essentially each trumpet is like decreeing judgment.
So it's like the first thing shall be this and then and there's another one.
It's like that.
Like it's like, it's like somebody in a court like, yeah.
Exactly.
This is what's happening.
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Like you're, like if you were on trial and then you, the judge gave you your verdict.
This is what's happening.
Okay.
So it's not the actual punishment happening full blown yet.
That's actually what happens with the bowls of wrath, but it's like your judgment
being there.
So there's judgment that happens.
So there's bad stuff that happens, but it's all judgment, right?
Yeah.
So the first trumpet is the scourge of the earth.
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And so you have hail and fire mixed with blood coming from the sky.
And so this is why I think it's inter biblical with the, with Genesis, the days of creation,
because if you think about on the first day, God separates light and darkness.
And then on the first trumpet and, and he literally like Genesis literally uses the
word separates light and darkness.
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And then on the first trumpet, hail and fire are mixed.
So not separated, but mixed with blood and thrown upon the earth and the scorched one
third of the earth.
And then on the second day, God separates the skies from the waters on the horizon.
So, and then what happens here on the second trumpet, a mountain burning is thrown into
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the sea and it becomes the sea of blood.
And so something that was stretching to the sky was toppled back into the sea is mixed
back up on the third day.
God separates the dry land from the seas, which also produces vegetation.
And on the third trumpet, a star fell from heaven, which contaminated the fresh water
and they couldn't even have potable water or vegetation or anything.
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Now the first three days about separating the next three days, four, five and six are
about filling what has been separated previously on the fourth day.
God fills the cosmos with the sun, moon and stars to govern the night and day.
And on the fourth trumpet, the sun, moon and stars are struck and one third of light is
darkened.
Okay.
So that was like the most direct, like one that you could see on the fifth day, the sky
(05:22):
and the seas were filled with birds and sea creatures.
All right.
So all sorts of birds, but like, I mean, we're going to flying things.
So pterodactyls up in there too.
You know what I'm saying?
Pterodactyls.
Y'all up in there.
All right.
So anyways, like it fills the sky and seas with birds and sea creatures, right?
And so on the fifth trumpet, you have this locus from the abyss attacking humans.
And this is the one that people are like, Oh, that's a helicopter.
(05:43):
But if you notice what's happening, it's coming from the abyss.
It's coming from the depth of the sea, coming up and then flying and then attacking humans.
So it is the sea and the sky mixing together in one creature and attacking people.
Yeah.
So it's not a helicopter.
What do you mean?
So it's, it's, it's literally this mixing of destruction.
(06:05):
That's devastating to hear that it's not a helicopter.
Indeed.
What am I going to do?
Indeed, he's not.
Indeed, he's not.
Just swipe that anxiety, that particular anxiety from your list of anxieties.
Yeah.
Let it flee.
A familiar list.
Six day, God fills the land with animals and humans and calls humans the crown jewel of creation.
And on the sixth trumpet, one third of humanity is killed in war.
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And then on the seventh day, God rests and on the seventh trumpet is this interruption
before the proclamation of the final judgment and the seven bowls are poured out.
And so there's an interruption.
It's, it's like arresting before that happens to interesting.
Right.
It's really good.
I'm going to put the paper on in the show, in the show notes, like I'll put the link on it
because it's free access published with quadrum.
(06:46):
It's our four square journal.
Oh yeah.
And so you guys can check it out there.
Pretty cool.
Right.
That's sick.
Loki.
So I fear that is baller.
Yeah.
So we're essentially halfway through the book of revelation.
You notice what we haven't talked about the antichrist.
Yes.
We haven't even talked about the beast yet.
No, we haven't talked about even gotten to all the stuff that I feel like marks people's
(07:08):
thoughts when it comes to revolution.
Now it's going to come after this, except the word antichrist has never mentioned in the book of revelation.
Do you know that?
It's only mentioned in two places.
Any guesses in the Bible?
The antichrist?
Yeah.
I think it's in Matthew.
Nope.
Is it not?
It is not.
No, where is it?
First and second, John.
And in both cases, John's really on something.
(07:30):
Yeah.
And in both cases, it's not an individual antichrist.
It actually is the spirit of antichrist that is in there.
Oh, I actually feel like someone did say that to me once.
Yeah.
So it's not one person who is.
Right.
So I'm actually, the mentions of the antichrist is so short.
Like I can actually just read it real quick.
Like these are all the mentions of the antichrist.
(07:52):
So you have in first John 2, 8 through 22 says this,
Dear children, this is the last hour.
And as you have heard the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.
This is how we know it is the last hour.
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.
For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us.
But they're going showed that none of them belong to us.
(08:15):
But you have an appointed from the Holy One and all of you know the truth.
I do not write to you because you do not know the truth,
but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.
Who is the liar?
It is anyone who denies that Jesus is Christ.
Such a person is the antichrist denying the father and the son.
First John 4, 1 through 3 says, Dear friends,
do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they're from God,
(08:38):
because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
This is how you can recognize the spirit of God.
Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.
This is the spirit of the antichrist,
which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
Last passage, 2 John 7, I say this because many deceivers who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ is coming in the flesh,
(09:02):
have gone out into the world.
Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
That's it.
That's it. There it is.
That's every reference of the antichrist in the Bible.
Now, is there a reference to a worldwide leader?
Yes, perhaps, especially the beast in Revelation.
And we're going to get into that,
but it's interesting to know he's never called the antichrist.
(09:22):
And so these popular things that we have,
like some son of the devil named Damien coming up growing in Russia
and becoming the antichrist or whatever,
like that is not in the Bible.
It's not even close to it in the Bible.
Like it's a terrible, terrible interpretation.
With chapter 12, John does a detour.
This is what's confusing.
He actually recites the history of everything again.
(09:44):
Like, so it takes place for it was,
and then now he's like looking back at like,
this is how it started.
Let me talk to you all the way through it and how it's going to end.
He takes you from the beginning of time all the way to the end.
And so that's a weird thing to happen in the middle of the book,
but that's exactly what happens.
And so the first thing he does is he has this vision
(10:04):
where a splendid woman gives birth to a man child.
Come on, splendid woman.
When I hear man child, I always think of like Ron Swanson.
But that's not, not really what he's talking about.
Verse five says the child will rule all the nations with a rod of iron.
And so this is very clearly Jesus.
And the woman is probably not Mary,
(10:26):
but it could be a overloaded image where it's like,
several things in once.
It's probably Israel herself from which Jesus would descend.
It could even be Eve as an archetype for all humanity
who has better people.
Like it could be either of those,
but like a woman is giving birth to a child,
which is going to be Jesus our savior.
So then you have the dragon appearing from the sky.
(10:48):
And it talks about a dragon takes one third of the stars from heaven.
Now this is clearly the devil.
Now this is something that's crazy.
I don't know if people like recognize this,
but this is actually the only explicit time in the whole Bible.
Although it's still shrouded in imagery
that they account for Lucifer's fall from heaven.
(11:10):
Like it's not in Genesis.
It's like maybe hinted towards in Isaiah,
some biblical scholars were like, nope, that's definitely not it.
But like this is picked up here.
And these one third of the stars that fell from heaven were the angels.
So this is the war in heaven when,
and it actually explains it a little bit explicitly also.
If you read the passage,
you'll see that there's Michael, the archangel, defeating the devil.
(11:32):
And the devil is actually called the serpent of old is called the dragon,
is called all of this stuff.
And this is where we get all of these ideas,
the Satan, the dragon, the serpent and Genesis as equivocated.
Some people think the serpent is Leviathan.
That's definitely the case.
But some people might say the serpent is also the serpent in the garden.
(11:53):
And I believe that.
And I think a lot of time in Christian history, they have said it.
Some biblical scholars will push back against that.
What I would hold is that like the serpent in the garden being called a serpent,
and then also Leviathan being called a serpent.
That's intentional in the Bible.
Like they're associating the chaos that the serpent in the garden
have brought together there.
So I think it's together.
(12:14):
Anyways, so the dragon is defeated in heaven.
And this is where, and then the woman escapes.
And so then you have the beast appear
for the first time.
And this is in Revelation 13.
Okay.
All right.
Here we go team.
So this is all cosmos.
This is all like the beginning of the world stuff.
You know what I mean?
And how everything was written from the beginning.
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The devil was trying to attack, but escaped.
And then Jesus was born and now salvation is going to come through Jesus.
This is like basically what the whole thing was saying.
Now you have the beast appears from the skis.
The skis.
From the skis.
Oh my gosh.
I strapped them onto my feet and I rode down a snowy mountain.
What is that on my skis?
A mountain.
It's a beast.
(12:56):
No, it appears from the seas.
Man.
We good.
We good.
We're 13 chapters.
And we're talking about a lot of stuff.
Okay.
We're good.
We're 13 chapters and you're allowed to say skis.
You know what I'm saying?
It's fine.
Oh man.
Okay.
From the seas.
Yes.
So this is Revelation 13.
One through two.
This relies on Daniel seven because the way the beast is described is like this.
(13:21):
The beast has seven heads, 10 horns, 10 crowns, and one had a moral wound.
I'm going to go ahead and read the passage for you.
It's just a couple of verses here.
It starts in verse 13.
It's the first time we see the beast.
And I saw a beast rising out of the sea with 10 horns and seven heads with 10
diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads.
(13:41):
Blasphemous.
And the beast that I saw was like a leopard.
Its feet were like a bear's and its mouth was like a lion's mouth.
And to it, the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.
One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound has healed.
And the whole earth marveled at that.
They followed the beast and they worshiped the dragon for he had given his authority
(14:03):
to the beast and they worshiped the beast saying who is like the beast and who can fight against it.
All right.
So interestingly, the beast, this is relying on Daniel because you have the ways described
in Daniel.
There's four beasts, right?
Yeah.
And the four beasts are a winged lion, a bear with three tusks, a leopard with four wings
(14:31):
and four heads.
And the fourth is the worst with iron teeth and bronze claws and has 10 horns.
Well, guess what?
The beast that came out of the sea in the book of Revelation, the way it was described,
it was described as a mixture of all four of these beasts.
So you have the beast that's like worse than all of them.
(14:54):
So the four beasts in Daniel all represent various empires that took over the world.
Right.
And so you had Babylon, Persia, Assyria, and then Greece with the Seleucid dynasty.
And those, all those beasts represent each of those.
Yeah.
(15:14):
Well, in Revelation, all of those were mixed into one.
What it's saying is that Rome is worse than all of these.
So Rome is occupying Israel now and it is far worse than any of the occupations that were before.
Right.
And it's, and how is this beast empowered?
It's empowered by the dragon, which is the devil.
So the devil is empowering the evil empire of Rome to overthrow and to rule Israel.
(15:42):
Yeah.
That's what it's talking about.
Right.
And then when you talk about the seven heads and the, and they seem to both represent the seven
hills of that Rome was founded on and seven rulers.
And some people think that the kings that were there had five,
the five have fallen.
One is and the others yet to come, that they're Nero, Galba, Atho, Vitalius, Vespacean, Titus,
(16:03):
who burned the temple to the ground and then Domitian.
We were also told that the beast itself is an eighth king who is of the seven and is going to
perdition.
And so the 10 horns are probably the 10 provinces of Rome and the dragon has given him authority.
So that's basically what's going on there.
Then we talk about the second beast.
Now you might have heard of the beast in the false prophet.
(16:23):
So at first in Revelation, he's not called the prophet.
He's called the second beast.
Right.
And so this appears from the earth.
He has the beast's authority.
It's Revelation 13 12.
And while the first beast seems to be the demonic ideal of Rome itself, the second beast,
and this is according to NT, right, appears to be Rome locally on earth,
like the government system that's actually like carrying out the whims of the beast.
(16:47):
It's governmental systems.
And here is where you have the mark of the beast.
This is Revelation 13 16 to 17.
And then you have very famously verse 18 that says this,
this calls for wisdom.
So this book of Revelation saying this, it's like pauses and it tells you this calls for wisdom.
It does this two times in the book.
(17:09):
Let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast.
For it is a number of a man and his number is 666.
So he's telling you to pause, calls for wisdom,
calculate this number because it's the number of a man.
So this is what many scholars believe.
And by the way, so it's some of the manuscripts, you know, the Bible is written down many,
(17:30):
many times and copied and those are all called manuscripts.
And they say 666 on many of them.
Then there's like hundreds of manuscripts where it actually says 616.
And so that's a significant two.
So there's this thing called gematria, which was this way of like kind of writing in code
in the, in the, in the first century.
(17:51):
In it, you would have like quick way to describe it is like,
if you gave a letter, a number, so like A is one, B is two and like that.
And then if you had like a, you can like cross reference it.
So like if you have like, you know, a short word,
you can look at what numbers actually mean that word.
And it could like mix them together.
Like you could have like two letters,
(18:14):
meaning a bigger number or a bigger number, meaning like later on or whatever.
But like, so there's multiple variations you can come to,
but like you can calculate and then you'll see like straight up,
there's a word that's being said there.
Well, 666, the number of the beast literally says Caesar Nero.
And then 616 makes it, Nero is plural.
It makes it not plural and says Caesar Nero.
(18:36):
And so what many scholars believe is that the number,
the market of the beast is Nero's name.
And so when you wear 666 on your forehead or your hand,
in order to buy any food or anything like that,
you are wearing the mark of the emperor Nero,
who is this figurehead, historical figure,
they became this demonic figurehead of Rome.
(18:56):
So basically you're in collusion with the kingdom of the world, Rome.
The very next passage, the 144,000, guess what?
They also had something written on their foreheads.
Instead of 666, they had the name of the lamb written on their foreheads,
which means allegiance to Christ rather than Rome.
(19:18):
So the very obvious thing that's being said is that you have to choose your allegiance.
You're a kingdom of the world or your kingdom of God.
Whose name is on your forehead?
Is it Jesus' name or is it Nero's name?
Like it's not a literal, like oh, it's a microchipper.
Yeah, which also that's not literal.
That would be like taking it in a non-literal way.
Right. And so like people think it's like,
(19:39):
so like it's goofy how they're interpreting this.
But like, who are you in legions with?
Are you in Legion with God or in Legion with the world?
Which it makes sense though,
because even the way that John is saying like, oh, it's 666,
how it's being revealed, like what would be revealed to him
and what he would be then communicating to the church,
they would be able to understand what that meant,
but Rome would never understand exactly what that would have meant.
(20:01):
No, they wouldn't know at all.
And so they would have, you know,
like been talking smack about Rome right there.
And he wouldn't know.
No idea.
Yeah.
Baller.
All right. So, so after this, you have all that like kind of history narrative.
Then you have the seven bowls of wrath.
And so this is Revelation 16, 1 through 21.
So these are plagues that are poured out on the earth
(20:22):
and they correspond with Genesis one, like the trumpets do.
And then before the seventh bowl, Jesus is quoted saying,
behold, I am coming like a thief.
Blessed is the one who says stays awake, keeping his garments on,
that he may not go about naked and be exposed.
So this is obviously in reference also to Matthew.
And this is also where the beast,
(20:44):
the second beast is called the false prophet.
And so on the seventh bowl, it says it is done
and it recounts what happened after Christ's death.
And so it says it is done in the same way that Jesus said it.
Like he was on the cross.
Yeah.
And so, so which is basically now the rap bowls of wrath have been poured out
and and Rome has been judged, but Rome isn't just Rome.
(21:06):
It's also representative of the kingdom of the world.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
And so, but then it talks about the whore of Babylon.
Not the whore.
Yeah.
So this is like the passage that you're like, what?
And so when we talk about like the world being Babylon all the time,
this is the reference.
Right.
Right.
So we said what we said on that one.
So the whore of Babylon in Revelation is the spirit of the ruling powers that go against God.
(21:30):
Right.
So it's the kingdom of the world is Babylon, right?
And so it's like in as the whore of Babylon, because a prostitute is this is literally why
the image is used looks good on the outside, but it's super rough on the inside.
You know what I'm saying?
Like disease and stuff too sometimes.
And so the spirit is pervasive, wins people over away from God.
She sits upon Rome.
And in other words, Rome is this new incarnation of the whore of Babylon.
(21:53):
But guess what?
Any thing, any country nation that gets against God, that is against the kingdom of God is this.
In fact, is the entire kingdom of the world that is associated with Babylon,
that the spirit of Babylon flows through.
And there's the kingdom of God that stands and poses them.
So you have now another explanation by an angel, by the angel here in Revelation 17,
(22:19):
9 through 18.
And this is the other time when it says, he says, this calls for a mind with wisdom.
There you go.
Same thing.
Second time, the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated.
There are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is and one, the other has yet to come.
And when he does come, he must remain only for a little while.
As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth, but belongs to the seven.
(22:41):
And it goes to destruction.
And the 10 horns that you saw are 10 kings who have not yet received royal power,
but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour together with the beast.
These are of one mind and they hand over their power and authority to the beast.
They will make war on the lamb and the lamb will conquer them,
for he is the Lord of lords and king kings.
(23:01):
And those with him are called and chosen and faithful.
Very importantly here, he says, this calls the mind wisdom.
The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated.
The seven mountains is very famously how Rome is structured because it's built on seven mountains.
And so he's basically saying, this is Rome.
And the other time he said it, he said, this is Nero.
So this is where like, is the book of revelation written for the first century or for today
(23:25):
or for like the future?
Both.
This is the stuff where it's like definitely for the first century.
But then it's also, we're going to see in the end,
like there's some stuff that hasn't happened yet, right?
Then you have the seven songs of woe to Babylon.
And so these are seven songs praising the destruction of Babylon once and for all.
And then you have the wedding supper that's announced.
(23:46):
And then in Revelation 19, you have the king on a white horse returning.
And it says this, I'm going to read it because it's dope.
Then I saw heaven opened and there was a white horse.
Its rider is called faithful and true.
And in righteousness, he judges and makes war.
His eyes are like a flame of fire.
And on his head are many diadems.
And he has a name inscribed that no one knows but himself.
(24:06):
Some people are like, ooh, a tattoo.
I don't know about all that.
He is clothed in a robe, dripped in blood.
And his name is called the word of God.
Some people are like, oh, dripped in blood.
That means he just slaughtered a lot of people.
And he right thinks it's the blood of the martyrs that actually,
that who was crying out beforehand.
So that he's like basically avenging here.
And the armies of heaven wearing fine linen, white and pure,
(24:27):
were following him on white horses from his, from his mouth came a sharp sword
with which to strike down the nations.
And he will rule them with a rod of iron.
This is the same, remember the little baby that was born with a rod of iron.
So Jesus is returned.
He will thread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God almighty on his robe.
And on his thigh, he has a name inscribed King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
(24:49):
So then you have the abyss in a thousand years.
So you have like the devil and Satan being thrown into this bottomless great pit.
They're judged.
And then after a thousand years are ended,
Satan will be released from his prison,
will come out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth.
And then they will come again and Jesus will judge everyone.
(25:15):
The dead are judged, the dead in Christ rise to,
and then they get judged towards glory and the other ones get condemned.
So this is like the final judgment.
This is the resurrection.
I lost battle.
Yeah.
And so you have Jesus judging the quick and the dead.
That means the alive and the dead.
And so this word says, those of you who are in Christ,
(25:37):
you're not going to die, but you're going to be transformed and twinkling in my eye.
Paul talks about this a few times.
Some people think it's the rapture that he's talking about there.
But, but if you notice, it's very clearly when Christ returns for the last judgment.
So if anything, you went through everything and then that's happening.
Basically he's just saying the dead are going to rise to be judged.
And if you're alive, you're not going to die and get judged.
(25:57):
You're just going to be judged.
Then you have the judgment and then all hell and death,
the Satan, the demons, they're all thrown into the lake of fire.
And so that's our main concept of hell.
But interestingly hell is thrown into a lake of fire.
Right.
And so some people have concepts of like, oh, is that annihilation?
Is that whatever?
Like that's where those concepts come from.
(26:17):
Right.
And then what descends from heaven is a new Jerusalem.
And so this is like a perfect cube descends from heaven.
And the same kind of measurements or whatever of the holy of holies in the temple.
So this means that God is with us.
He is holy.
This is a city that is renewed.
So Jesus doesn't say, behold, I make all new things.
(26:40):
He says, behold, I make all things new.
So just as he has transformed us and made and we rose to glory,
so did all of the cosmos.
Everything is raised in glory.
And then God is ruling supremely.
This is the new Jerusalem.
It's awesome.
And then the epilogue is the last words of Jesus.
So look, are we in the new Jerusalem now?
No.
(27:01):
Has hell and death been thrown into the lake of fire?
No.
Has the final judgment happened?
No.
This is all this stuff that's future going to happen.
But this judgment on Rome literally has happened.
But Babylon didn't just dwell on Rome.
It dwells on the whole kingdom of the world.
Right.
And so all of that will have to be judged and will be judged.
And will happen in the future.
(27:21):
So there's a both andness.
And yeah, that's the book of Revelation.
Ba-da-bing, ba-da-boom.
What do you think?
We did it.
We did it.
I think it helps a lot when you're instead of trying to find all the random things that
happen in our world now and figure out how they all line up with Revelation.
I think if you look at Revelation, how it all lines up with the aspects of the Bible,
(27:41):
it really helps a lot.
Yeah.
It really takes a lot of the stress and fear out of trying to understand what Revelation means.
He's referencing the Old Testament, the New Testament, Old Covenant, New Covenant.
Oh, one thing I didn't even mention is because we're just trying to do like a quick outline.
But like, for example, the two prophets that come down and then they get killed and stuff,
like, and people think they're Enoch and Elijah because they never died.
(28:03):
They're definitely Moses and Elijah.
If you look at the powers that they did, they like turned water to blood and then shut up
the sky.
That's literally what Moses and Elijah did.
Do, yeah.
And Moses and Elijah also have come together in the transfiguration.
They were put together.
Moses represents the law.
Elijah represents the prophets.
Right.
So this is kind of like the Old Covenant being brought to its fruition, to its fullness.
(28:24):
Right.
And so there's so much of that happening throughout the whole Book of Revelation.
Old Covenant, New Covenant being fulfilled, Christ fulfilling it all, bring it all there,
and then just like bringing justice to those who have died to the martyrs,
defeating hell and death, defeating all the wicked and all that kind of stuff,
and bringing ultimately, fundamentally redemption, not just to our souls,
but to everything that God has made.
(28:46):
Yeah.
Because God made it all.
Everything's made right.
Yeah.
Everything's made right.
And fulfilled in all the things.
There's a Mav City song.
If it ain't good, it's not done.
If it's not good, then it's not dead.
Yeah.
And that's basically what the Book of Revelation says.
Oh, that's a Torrin Welles song.
Oh, is it Torrin Welles?
Nice.
Or whatever.
I think it's with elevation because it's joy in the morning.
Okay.
(29:06):
I think.
Yeah.
If it's not good.
I'm sure it's probably in a Mav City song too.
Whatever that song is.
I'm sure it's probably a couple places.
But that's what that sentiment is.
It's like God is making all things new.
He's redeeming the whole world.
He's redeeming everything.
Reconciling all of us back to God.
That means there's not going to be judgment.
And that there for certain will be judgment.
There is that.
But what you shouldn't do is live in fear of Christ returning.
(29:30):
One of the worst things of some people's
eschatological imagination is they're fearful of Jesus
coming back.
Yeah.
And it's like, bro, that's like the bride being afraid of seeing the groom.
That makes no sense.
Right. Like we're supposed to be in eager anticipation waiting because what happens
when Jesus returns?
He brings forever this gracious justice that he has always promised and it is brought
(29:55):
to its fullness.
And then we can live for eternity in this new Jerusalem where Christ is reigning supreme.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
That's good.
I mean, look, if there's trials and tribulations like there is in our lives,
not only are we as Christians told that there might be like we're promised it.
Like you're called to be a witness through whatever the situation is good or bad.
(30:20):
You be a witness of Christ.
You be a witness of the kingdom of God in this wicked Babylonian society.
Right.
Right.
And so look, what should our posture be as the church?
I think when you look at the purpose of Matthew 24, when he talks about all the signs,
it points towards us being watchful and it's not us watching for heavens or for,
(30:41):
you know, like it's not us watching the heavens for the signs and being these kind of like
bunker weirdos and stuff, but it's watching your life so that way you are living rightly
before the day of his coming.
Right.
It's primarily ethical.
Are you who God has called you to be?
Are we as the church living the way God has called us to be?
(31:02):
Regardless of who's the ruler of our little sector of Babylon, that does not matter.
That is not going to alter at all God's plan.
Right.
God's plan will ensue regardless who's ruling, regardless of what the anxieties of the day
are.
Right.
They're going to be bad and they're going to get worse and then sometimes they've even
been worse in other place, whatever.
The point is we're not going to expect when Christ will return, but Christ will return.
(31:26):
So are we ready?
Right.
Are we doing what God has caused us to do?
Right.
We are not asking when, but if we're ready.
Right.
Right.
It's good.
Well, there we have it.
There we have it.
It's been had.
That is season four completed.
We went through the whole book of Revelation.
We look at the global issues.
Like we mentioned before, if you'd enjoyed what you have listened to, if it's been helpful
(31:50):
and beneficial to you, point others towards our podcast.
That would be very helpful.
We appreciate you.
Leave us a good review.
If you don't like it, just don't leave a review.
You know what I'm saying?
Keep it to yourself.
Thanks for your thoughts.
All right, friends, for the last time this season, as always, these episodes are sponsored
(32:12):
by the School of Theology and Ministry at Life Pacific University.
All right.
We'll see you with season five in a few months.
See ya.
Okay, are you ready to finish this thing up?
(00:02):
I'm ready. Born ready even.
Born ready came out in the womb.
She was like, let's talk about the book of Revelation.
That's exactly what it was.
They said, my name is Meagan Lord and I said Lord.
Lord as in Revelation?
Lord as in Lord Jesus in the book of Revelation?
Welcome to TikTok Theology, a podcast that tackles the major trending pop likes on social
(00:23):
media that concern the Christian faith.
I'm Meagan.
And I'm Steven.
We know you can't form a theology in three minutes or less,
but those videos can identify current issues.
Tick Tock will give us the prompt and then we'll do a deep dive.
Thanks for joining us in this exploration.
Well friends, we're picking back up where we left off in the previous episode.
(00:46):
But you know, in the first half of Revelation, it's a little tamer.
Maybe not necessarily all the scary things that you think about when you think of the book of
Revelation.
Still pretty scary.
Still a little scary, but maybe not as typical as you feel like you might hear
Antichrist or Beast or Mark of the Beast, you know, all that good stuff.
So we're picking right back up where we left off,
(01:08):
where we will get through the rest of this book.
So we're excited for you to join us.
So Stephen, walk us through.
This is the last episode of season four.
This one for sure is.
We thought last one was going to be, but like it was too, too rich.
But JK, because it was too good.
There was too much.
It was too good.
You can't talk about the end of the world.
Just one episode.
That's like got to be a shirt.
You need to talk about the end of the world.
(01:28):
Just one episode.
You need to at least minimum, minimum.
So we'll probably bring this back up in every this starts our end of the world.
Indeed.
And also before we go, you know, I just want to make a little point as we end season four.
We've been steadily growing throughout each of these seasons and we had a lot of fun.
And hopefully you have found our podcast helpful,
(01:50):
help guiding you through turbulent, difficult times and not in a way that's
trying to indoctrinate anyone, but like, you know,
just thoughtfully looking through scripture and different things.
And hopefully, hopefully you saw that and are experiencing that.
If you like it and you want to help us grow even more,
just tell some homies about this.
You know what I mean?
Tell them about the podcast, show them specific episodes and be like,
(02:11):
Hey, listen to this.
And then yeah, let's get it going.
We've been visiting some churches and stuff and that's been awesome too.
So that's always an option.
Yeah.
I've had people who've talked to me and Stephen who said that they've listened
to our episodes before they wrote papers on certain subjects or before they
preached on certain topics.
And it's super, it's forever an honor that people will listen to the thoughts
that we have and the perspectives and the things we unpack as a way to help them
(02:33):
and reach other people.
So it's super fun and humbling to do this job.
And we'd love to continue to do that and reach more and help as many people as we
can have these kinds of conversations, especially as the world is just getting
more and more confusing.
It is not getting easier.
So yeah.
And we're not, I mean, we don't have any endorsements.
We don't have anything like that.
We're not making any money at all.
No.
We just feel like this is a sense of calling that God has put on our hearts.
(02:54):
Oh, absolutely.
And so, so hopefully you find it helpful and, and can, and if you want to,
the best way to partner with us is just get the word out.
Tell people about it.
The word friends.
All right.
So let's finish here.
So the first 11 chapters of the book of Revelation was a lot of prep work and it
ended with the massive judgments being read.
(03:15):
So the trumpets.
Okay.
So now you open the scroll, right?
The seals are all been broken.
You open the scroll and then what you're doing is the reading.
Essentially each trumpet is like decreeing judgment.
So it's like the first thing shall be this and then and there's another one.
It's like that.
Like it's like, it's like somebody in a court like, yeah.
Exactly.
This is what's happening.
(03:36):
Like you're, like if you were on trial and then you, the judge gave you your verdict.
This is what's happening.
Okay.
So it's not the actual punishment happening full blown yet.
That's actually what happens with the bowls of wrath, but it's like your judgment
being there.
So there's judgment that happens.
So there's bad stuff that happens, but it's all judgment, right?
Yeah.
So the first trumpet is the scourge of the earth.
(03:56):
And so you have hail and fire mixed with blood coming from the sky.
And so this is why I think it's inter biblical with the, with Genesis, the days of creation,
because if you think about on the first day, God separates light and darkness.
And then on the first trumpet and, and he literally like Genesis literally uses the
word separates light and darkness.
(04:17):
And then on the first trumpet, hail and fire are mixed.
So not separated, but mixed with blood and thrown upon the earth and the scorched one
third of the earth.
And then on the second day, God separates the skies from the waters on the horizon.
So, and then what happens here on the second trumpet, a mountain burning is thrown into
(04:38):
the sea and it becomes the sea of blood.
And so something that was stretching to the sky was toppled back into the sea is mixed
back up on the third day.
God separates the dry land from the seas, which also produces vegetation.
And on the third trumpet, a star fell from heaven, which contaminated the fresh water
and they couldn't even have potable water or vegetation or anything.
(05:01):
Now the first three days about separating the next three days, four, five and six are
about filling what has been separated previously on the fourth day.
God fills the cosmos with the sun, moon and stars to govern the night and day.
And on the fourth trumpet, the sun, moon and stars are struck and one third of light is
darkened.
Okay.
So that was like the most direct, like one that you could see on the fifth day, the sky
(05:22):
and the seas were filled with birds and sea creatures.
All right.
So all sorts of birds, but like, I mean, we're going to flying things.
So pterodactyls up in there too.
You know what I'm saying?
Pterodactyls.
Y'all up in there.
All right.
So anyways, like it fills the sky and seas with birds and sea creatures, right?
And so on the fifth trumpet, you have this locus from the abyss attacking humans.
And this is the one that people are like, Oh, that's a helicopter.
(05:43):
But if you notice what's happening, it's coming from the abyss.
It's coming from the depth of the sea, coming up and then flying and then attacking humans.
So it is the sea and the sky mixing together in one creature and attacking people.
Yeah.
So it's not a helicopter.
What do you mean?
So it's, it's, it's literally this mixing of destruction.
(06:05):
That's devastating to hear that it's not a helicopter.
Indeed.
What am I going to do?
Indeed, he's not.
Indeed, he's not.
Just swipe that anxiety, that particular anxiety from your list of anxieties.
Yeah.
Let it flee.
A familiar list.
Six day, God fills the land with animals and humans and calls humans the crown jewel of creation.
And on the sixth trumpet, one third of humanity is killed in war.
(06:26):
And then on the seventh day, God rests and on the seventh trumpet is this interruption
before the proclamation of the final judgment and the seven bowls are poured out.
And so there's an interruption.
It's, it's like arresting before that happens to interesting.
Right.
It's really good.
I'm going to put the paper on in the show, in the show notes, like I'll put the link on it
because it's free access published with quadrum.
(06:46):
It's our four square journal.
Oh yeah.
And so you guys can check it out there.
Pretty cool.
Right.
That's sick.
Loki.
So I fear that is baller.
Yeah.
So we're essentially halfway through the book of revelation.
You notice what we haven't talked about the antichrist.
Yes.
We haven't even talked about the beast yet.
No, we haven't talked about even gotten to all the stuff that I feel like marks people's
(07:08):
thoughts when it comes to revolution.
Now it's going to come after this, except the word antichrist has never mentioned in the book of revelation.
Do you know that?
It's only mentioned in two places.
Any guesses in the Bible?
The antichrist?
Yeah.
I think it's in Matthew.
Nope.
Is it not?
It is not.
No, where is it?
First and second, John.
And in both cases, John's really on something.
(07:30):
Yeah.
And in both cases, it's not an individual antichrist.
It actually is the spirit of antichrist that is in there.
Oh, I actually feel like someone did say that to me once.
Yeah.
So it's not one person who is.
Right.
So I'm actually, the mentions of the antichrist is so short.
Like I can actually just read it real quick.
Like these are all the mentions of the antichrist.
(07:52):
So you have in first John 2, 8 through 22 says this,
Dear children, this is the last hour.
And as you have heard the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.
This is how we know it is the last hour.
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.
For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us.
But they're going showed that none of them belong to us.
(08:15):
But you have an appointed from the Holy One and all of you know the truth.
I do not write to you because you do not know the truth,
but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.
Who is the liar?
It is anyone who denies that Jesus is Christ.
Such a person is the antichrist denying the father and the son.
First John 4, 1 through 3 says, Dear friends,
do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they're from God,
(08:38):
because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
This is how you can recognize the spirit of God.
Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.
This is the spirit of the antichrist,
which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
Last passage, 2 John 7, I say this because many deceivers who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ is coming in the flesh,
(09:02):
have gone out into the world.
Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
That's it.
That's it. There it is.
That's every reference of the antichrist in the Bible.
Now, is there a reference to a worldwide leader?
Yes, perhaps, especially the beast in Revelation.
And we're going to get into that,
but it's interesting to know he's never called the antichrist.
(09:22):
And so these popular things that we have,
like some son of the devil named Damien coming up growing in Russia
and becoming the antichrist or whatever,
like that is not in the Bible.
It's not even close to it in the Bible.
Like it's a terrible, terrible interpretation.
With chapter 12, John does a detour.
This is what's confusing.
He actually recites the history of everything again.
(09:44):
Like, so it takes place for it was,
and then now he's like looking back at like,
this is how it started.
Let me talk to you all the way through it and how it's going to end.
He takes you from the beginning of time all the way to the end.
And so that's a weird thing to happen in the middle of the book,
but that's exactly what happens.
And so the first thing he does is he has this vision
(10:04):
where a splendid woman gives birth to a man child.
Come on, splendid woman.
When I hear man child, I always think of like Ron Swanson.
But that's not, not really what he's talking about.
Verse five says the child will rule all the nations with a rod of iron.
And so this is very clearly Jesus.
And the woman is probably not Mary,
(10:26):
but it could be a overloaded image where it's like,
several things in once.
It's probably Israel herself from which Jesus would descend.
It could even be Eve as an archetype for all humanity
who has better people.
Like it could be either of those,
but like a woman is giving birth to a child,
which is going to be Jesus our savior.
So then you have the dragon appearing from the sky.
(10:48):
And it talks about a dragon takes one third of the stars from heaven.
Now this is clearly the devil.
Now this is something that's crazy.
I don't know if people like recognize this,
but this is actually the only explicit time in the whole Bible.
Although it's still shrouded in imagery
that they account for Lucifer's fall from heaven.
(11:10):
Like it's not in Genesis.
It's like maybe hinted towards in Isaiah,
some biblical scholars were like, nope, that's definitely not it.
But like this is picked up here.
And these one third of the stars that fell from heaven were the angels.
So this is the war in heaven when,
and it actually explains it a little bit explicitly also.
If you read the passage,
you'll see that there's Michael, the archangel, defeating the devil.
(11:32):
And the devil is actually called the serpent of old is called the dragon,
is called all of this stuff.
And this is where we get all of these ideas,
the Satan, the dragon, the serpent and Genesis as equivocated.
Some people think the serpent is Leviathan.
That's definitely the case.
But some people might say the serpent is also the serpent in the garden.
(11:53):
And I believe that.
And I think a lot of time in Christian history, they have said it.
Some biblical scholars will push back against that.
What I would hold is that like the serpent in the garden being called a serpent,
and then also Leviathan being called a serpent.
That's intentional in the Bible.
Like they're associating the chaos that the serpent in the garden
have brought together there.
So I think it's together.
(12:14):
Anyways, so the dragon is defeated in heaven.
And this is where, and then the woman escapes.
And so then you have the beast appear
for the first time.
And this is in Revelation 13.
Okay.
All right.
Here we go team.
So this is all cosmos.
This is all like the beginning of the world stuff.
You know what I mean?
And how everything was written from the beginning.
(12:34):
The devil was trying to attack, but escaped.
And then Jesus was born and now salvation is going to come through Jesus.
This is like basically what the whole thing was saying.
Now you have the beast appears from the skis.
The skis.
From the skis.
Oh my gosh.
I strapped them onto my feet and I rode down a snowy mountain.
What is that on my skis?
A mountain.
It's a beast.
(12:56):
No, it appears from the seas.
Man.
We good.
We good.
We're 13 chapters.
And we're talking about a lot of stuff.
Okay.
We're good.
We're 13 chapters and you're allowed to say skis.
You know what I'm saying?
It's fine.
Oh man.
Okay.
From the seas.
Yes.
So this is Revelation 13.
One through two.
This relies on Daniel seven because the way the beast is described is like this.
(13:21):
The beast has seven heads, 10 horns, 10 crowns, and one had a moral wound.
I'm going to go ahead and read the passage for you.
It's just a couple of verses here.
It starts in verse 13.
It's the first time we see the beast.
And I saw a beast rising out of the sea with 10 horns and seven heads with 10
diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads.
(13:41):
Blasphemous.
And the beast that I saw was like a leopard.
Its feet were like a bear's and its mouth was like a lion's mouth.
And to it, the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.
One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound has healed.
And the whole earth marveled at that.
They followed the beast and they worshiped the dragon for he had given his authority
(14:03):
to the beast and they worshiped the beast saying who is like the beast and who can fight against it.
All right.
So interestingly, the beast, this is relying on Daniel because you have the ways described
in Daniel.
There's four beasts, right?
Yeah.
And the four beasts are a winged lion, a bear with three tusks, a leopard with four wings
(14:31):
and four heads.
And the fourth is the worst with iron teeth and bronze claws and has 10 horns.
Well, guess what?
The beast that came out of the sea in the book of Revelation, the way it was described,
it was described as a mixture of all four of these beasts.
So you have the beast that's like worse than all of them.
(14:54):
So the four beasts in Daniel all represent various empires that took over the world.
Right.
And so you had Babylon, Persia, Assyria, and then Greece with the Seleucid dynasty.
And those, all those beasts represent each of those.
Yeah.
(15:14):
Well, in Revelation, all of those were mixed into one.
What it's saying is that Rome is worse than all of these.
So Rome is occupying Israel now and it is far worse than any of the occupations that were before.
Right.
And it's, and how is this beast empowered?
It's empowered by the dragon, which is the devil.
So the devil is empowering the evil empire of Rome to overthrow and to rule Israel.
(15:42):
Yeah.
That's what it's talking about.
Right.
And then when you talk about the seven heads and the, and they seem to both represent the seven
hills of that Rome was founded on and seven rulers.
And some people think that the kings that were there had five,
the five have fallen.
One is and the others yet to come, that they're Nero, Galba, Atho, Vitalius, Vespacean, Titus,
(16:03):
who burned the temple to the ground and then Domitian.
We were also told that the beast itself is an eighth king who is of the seven and is going to
perdition.
And so the 10 horns are probably the 10 provinces of Rome and the dragon has given him authority.
So that's basically what's going on there.
Then we talk about the second beast.
Now you might have heard of the beast in the false prophet.
(16:23):
So at first in Revelation, he's not called the prophet.
He's called the second beast.
Right.
And so this appears from the earth.
He has the beast's authority.
It's Revelation 13 12.
And while the first beast seems to be the demonic ideal of Rome itself, the second beast,
and this is according to NT, right, appears to be Rome locally on earth,
like the government system that's actually like carrying out the whims of the beast.
(16:47):
It's governmental systems.
And here is where you have the mark of the beast.
This is Revelation 13 16 to 17.
And then you have very famously verse 18 that says this,
this calls for wisdom.
So this book of Revelation saying this, it's like pauses and it tells you this calls for wisdom.
It does this two times in the book.
(17:09):
Let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast.
For it is a number of a man and his number is 666.
So he's telling you to pause, calls for wisdom,
calculate this number because it's the number of a man.
So this is what many scholars believe.
And by the way, so it's some of the manuscripts, you know, the Bible is written down many,
(17:30):
many times and copied and those are all called manuscripts.
And they say 666 on many of them.
Then there's like hundreds of manuscripts where it actually says 616.
And so that's a significant two.
So there's this thing called gematria, which was this way of like kind of writing in code
in the, in the, in the first century.
(17:51):
In it, you would have like quick way to describe it is like,
if you gave a letter, a number, so like A is one, B is two and like that.
And then if you had like a, you can like cross reference it.
So like if you have like, you know, a short word,
you can look at what numbers actually mean that word.
And it could like mix them together.
Like you could have like two letters,
(18:14):
meaning a bigger number or a bigger number, meaning like later on or whatever.
But like, so there's multiple variations you can come to,
but like you can calculate and then you'll see like straight up,
there's a word that's being said there.
Well, 666, the number of the beast literally says Caesar Nero.
And then 616 makes it, Nero is plural.
It makes it not plural and says Caesar Nero.
(18:36):
And so what many scholars believe is that the number,
the market of the beast is Nero's name.
And so when you wear 666 on your forehead or your hand,
in order to buy any food or anything like that,
you are wearing the mark of the emperor Nero,
who is this figurehead, historical figure,
they became this demonic figurehead of Rome.
(18:56):
So basically you're in collusion with the kingdom of the world, Rome.
The very next passage, the 144,000, guess what?
They also had something written on their foreheads.
Instead of 666, they had the name of the lamb written on their foreheads,
which means allegiance to Christ rather than Rome.
(19:18):
So the very obvious thing that's being said is that you have to choose your allegiance.
You're a kingdom of the world or your kingdom of God.
Whose name is on your forehead?
Is it Jesus' name or is it Nero's name?
Like it's not a literal, like oh, it's a microchipper.
Yeah, which also that's not literal.
That would be like taking it in a non-literal way.
Right. And so like people think it's like,
(19:39):
so like it's goofy how they're interpreting this.
But like, who are you in legions with?
Are you in Legion with God or in Legion with the world?
Which it makes sense though,
because even the way that John is saying like, oh, it's 666,
how it's being revealed, like what would be revealed to him
and what he would be then communicating to the church,
they would be able to understand what that meant,
but Rome would never understand exactly what that would have meant.
(20:01):
No, they wouldn't know at all.
And so they would have, you know,
like been talking smack about Rome right there.
And he wouldn't know.
No idea.
Yeah.
Baller.
All right. So, so after this, you have all that like kind of history narrative.
Then you have the seven bowls of wrath.
And so this is Revelation 16, 1 through 21.
So these are plagues that are poured out on the earth
(20:22):
and they correspond with Genesis one, like the trumpets do.
And then before the seventh bowl, Jesus is quoted saying,
behold, I am coming like a thief.
Blessed is the one who says stays awake, keeping his garments on,
that he may not go about naked and be exposed.
So this is obviously in reference also to Matthew.
And this is also where the beast,
(20:44):
the second beast is called the false prophet.
And so on the seventh bowl, it says it is done
and it recounts what happened after Christ's death.
And so it says it is done in the same way that Jesus said it.
Like he was on the cross.
Yeah.
And so, so which is basically now the rap bowls of wrath have been poured out
and and Rome has been judged, but Rome isn't just Rome.
(21:06):
It's also representative of the kingdom of the world.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
And so, but then it talks about the whore of Babylon.
Not the whore.
Yeah.
So this is like the passage that you're like, what?
And so when we talk about like the world being Babylon all the time,
this is the reference.
Right.
Right.
So we said what we said on that one.
So the whore of Babylon in Revelation is the spirit of the ruling powers that go against God.
(21:30):
Right.
So it's the kingdom of the world is Babylon, right?
And so it's like in as the whore of Babylon, because a prostitute is this is literally why
the image is used looks good on the outside, but it's super rough on the inside.
You know what I'm saying?
Like disease and stuff too sometimes.
And so the spirit is pervasive, wins people over away from God.
She sits upon Rome.
And in other words, Rome is this new incarnation of the whore of Babylon.
(21:53):
But guess what?
Any thing, any country nation that gets against God, that is against the kingdom of God is this.
In fact, is the entire kingdom of the world that is associated with Babylon,
that the spirit of Babylon flows through.
And there's the kingdom of God that stands and poses them.
So you have now another explanation by an angel, by the angel here in Revelation 17,
(22:19):
9 through 18.
And this is the other time when it says, he says, this calls for a mind with wisdom.
There you go.
Same thing.
Second time, the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated.
There are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is and one, the other has yet to come.
And when he does come, he must remain only for a little while.
As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth, but belongs to the seven.
(22:41):
And it goes to destruction.
And the 10 horns that you saw are 10 kings who have not yet received royal power,
but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour together with the beast.
These are of one mind and they hand over their power and authority to the beast.
They will make war on the lamb and the lamb will conquer them,
for he is the Lord of lords and king kings.
(23:01):
And those with him are called and chosen and faithful.
Very importantly here, he says, this calls the mind wisdom.
The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated.
The seven mountains is very famously how Rome is structured because it's built on seven mountains.
And so he's basically saying, this is Rome.
And the other time he said it, he said, this is Nero.
So this is where like, is the book of revelation written for the first century or for today
(23:25):
or for like the future?
Both.
This is the stuff where it's like definitely for the first century.
But then it's also, we're going to see in the end,
like there's some stuff that hasn't happened yet, right?
Then you have the seven songs of woe to Babylon.
And so these are seven songs praising the destruction of Babylon once and for all.
And then you have the wedding supper that's announced.
(23:46):
And then in Revelation 19, you have the king on a white horse returning.
And it says this, I'm going to read it because it's dope.
Then I saw heaven opened and there was a white horse.
Its rider is called faithful and true.
And in righteousness, he judges and makes war.
His eyes are like a flame of fire.
And on his head are many diadems.
And he has a name inscribed that no one knows but himself.
(24:06):
Some people are like, ooh, a tattoo.
I don't know about all that.
He is clothed in a robe, dripped in blood.
And his name is called the word of God.
Some people are like, oh, dripped in blood.
That means he just slaughtered a lot of people.
And he right thinks it's the blood of the martyrs that actually,
that who was crying out beforehand.
So that he's like basically avenging here.
And the armies of heaven wearing fine linen, white and pure,
(24:27):
were following him on white horses from his, from his mouth came a sharp sword
with which to strike down the nations.
And he will rule them with a rod of iron.
This is the same, remember the little baby that was born with a rod of iron.
So Jesus is returned.
He will thread the wine press of the fury of the wrath of God almighty on his robe.
And on his thigh, he has a name inscribed King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
(24:49):
So then you have the abyss in a thousand years.
So you have like the devil and Satan being thrown into this bottomless great pit.
They're judged.
And then after a thousand years are ended,
Satan will be released from his prison,
will come out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth.
And then they will come again and Jesus will judge everyone.
(25:15):
The dead are judged, the dead in Christ rise to,
and then they get judged towards glory and the other ones get condemned.
So this is like the final judgment.
This is the resurrection.
I lost battle.
Yeah.
And so you have Jesus judging the quick and the dead.
That means the alive and the dead.
And so this word says, those of you who are in Christ,
(25:37):
you're not going to die, but you're going to be transformed and twinkling in my eye.
Paul talks about this a few times.
Some people think it's the rapture that he's talking about there.
But, but if you notice, it's very clearly when Christ returns for the last judgment.
So if anything, you went through everything and then that's happening.
Basically he's just saying the dead are going to rise to be judged.
And if you're alive, you're not going to die and get judged.
(25:57):
You're just going to be judged.
Then you have the judgment and then all hell and death,
the Satan, the demons, they're all thrown into the lake of fire.
And so that's our main concept of hell.
But interestingly hell is thrown into a lake of fire.
Right.
And so some people have concepts of like, oh, is that annihilation?
Is that whatever?
Like that's where those concepts come from.
(26:17):
Right.
And then what descends from heaven is a new Jerusalem.
And so this is like a perfect cube descends from heaven.
And the same kind of measurements or whatever of the holy of holies in the temple.
So this means that God is with us.
He is holy.
This is a city that is renewed.
So Jesus doesn't say, behold, I make all new things.
(26:40):
He says, behold, I make all things new.
So just as he has transformed us and made and we rose to glory,
so did all of the cosmos.
Everything is raised in glory.
And then God is ruling supremely.
This is the new Jerusalem.
It's awesome.
And then the epilogue is the last words of Jesus.
So look, are we in the new Jerusalem now?
No.
(27:01):
Has hell and death been thrown into the lake of fire?
No.
Has the final judgment happened?
No.
This is all this stuff that's future going to happen.
But this judgment on Rome literally has happened.
But Babylon didn't just dwell on Rome.
It dwells on the whole kingdom of the world.
Right.
And so all of that will have to be judged and will be judged.
And will happen in the future.
(27:21):
So there's a both andness.
And yeah, that's the book of Revelation.
Ba-da-bing, ba-da-boom.
What do you think?
We did it.
We did it.
I think it helps a lot when you're instead of trying to find all the random things that
happen in our world now and figure out how they all line up with Revelation.
I think if you look at Revelation, how it all lines up with the aspects of the Bible,
(27:41):
it really helps a lot.
Yeah.
It really takes a lot of the stress and fear out of trying to understand what Revelation means.
He's referencing the Old Testament, the New Testament, Old Covenant, New Covenant.
Oh, one thing I didn't even mention is because we're just trying to do like a quick outline.
But like, for example, the two prophets that come down and then they get killed and stuff,
like, and people think they're Enoch and Elijah because they never died.
(28:03):
They're definitely Moses and Elijah.
If you look at the powers that they did, they like turned water to blood and then shut up
the sky.
That's literally what Moses and Elijah did.
Do, yeah.
And Moses and Elijah also have come together in the transfiguration.
They were put together.
Moses represents the law.
Elijah represents the prophets.
Right.
So this is kind of like the Old Covenant being brought to its fruition, to its fullness.
(28:24):
Right.
And so there's so much of that happening throughout the whole Book of Revelation.
Old Covenant, New Covenant being fulfilled, Christ fulfilling it all, bring it all there,
and then just like bringing justice to those who have died to the martyrs,
defeating hell and death, defeating all the wicked and all that kind of stuff,
and bringing ultimately, fundamentally redemption, not just to our souls,
but to everything that God has made.
(28:46):
Yeah.
Because God made it all.
Everything's made right.
Yeah.
Everything's made right.
And fulfilled in all the things.
There's a Mav City song.
If it ain't good, it's not done.
If it's not good, then it's not dead.
Yeah.
And that's basically what the Book of Revelation says.
Oh, that's a Torrin Welles song.
Oh, is it Torrin Welles?
Nice.
Or whatever.
I think it's with elevation because it's joy in the morning.
Okay.
(29:06):
I think.
Yeah.
If it's not good.
I'm sure it's probably in a Mav City song too.
Whatever that song is.
I'm sure it's probably a couple places.
But that's what that sentiment is.
It's like God is making all things new.
He's redeeming the whole world.
He's redeeming everything.
Reconciling all of us back to God.
That means there's not going to be judgment.
And that there for certain will be judgment.
There is that.
But what you shouldn't do is live in fear of Christ returning.
(29:30):
One of the worst things of some people's
eschatological imagination is they're fearful of Jesus
coming back.
Yeah.
And it's like, bro, that's like the bride being afraid of seeing the groom.
That makes no sense.
Right. Like we're supposed to be in eager anticipation waiting because what happens
when Jesus returns?
He brings forever this gracious justice that he has always promised and it is brought
(29:55):
to its fullness.
And then we can live for eternity in this new Jerusalem where Christ is reigning supreme.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
That's beautiful.
That's good.
I mean, look, if there's trials and tribulations like there is in our lives,
not only are we as Christians told that there might be like we're promised it.
Like you're called to be a witness through whatever the situation is good or bad.
(30:20):
You be a witness of Christ.
You be a witness of the kingdom of God in this wicked Babylonian society.
Right.
Right.
And so look, what should our posture be as the church?
I think when you look at the purpose of Matthew 24, when he talks about all the signs,
it points towards us being watchful and it's not us watching for heavens or for,
(30:41):
you know, like it's not us watching the heavens for the signs and being these kind of like
bunker weirdos and stuff, but it's watching your life so that way you are living rightly
before the day of his coming.
Right.
It's primarily ethical.
Are you who God has called you to be?
Are we as the church living the way God has called us to be?
(31:02):
Regardless of who's the ruler of our little sector of Babylon, that does not matter.
That is not going to alter at all God's plan.
Right.
God's plan will ensue regardless who's ruling, regardless of what the anxieties of the day
are.
Right.
They're going to be bad and they're going to get worse and then sometimes they've even
been worse in other place, whatever.
The point is we're not going to expect when Christ will return, but Christ will return.
(31:26):
So are we ready?
Right.
Are we doing what God has caused us to do?
Right.
We are not asking when, but if we're ready.
Right.
Right.
It's good.
Well, there we have it.
There we have it.
It's been had.
That is season four completed.
We went through the whole book of Revelation.
We look at the global issues.
Like we mentioned before, if you'd enjoyed what you have listened to, if it's been helpful
(31:50):
and beneficial to you, point others towards our podcast.
That would be very helpful.
We appreciate you.
Leave us a good review.
If you don't like it, just don't leave a review.
You know what I'm saying?
Keep it to yourself.
Thanks for your thoughts.
All right, friends, for the last time this season, as always, these episodes are sponsored
(32:12):
by the School of Theology and Ministry at Life Pacific University.
All right.
We'll see you with season five in a few months.
See ya.
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