Building Jucy and LyLo: A Masterclass in Resilience, Innovation, and Entrepreneurship with Tim Alpe

Ever wondered what it takes to build an innovative enterprise from the ground up? Pull up a chair and get ready to experience the entrepreneurial spirit like never before as I sit down with Tim Alpe, one of the masterminds behind Jucy rentals and more recently LyLo, an audacious pod hotel concept that's reshaping the hospitality industry in New Zealand. From his early beginnings in Auckland and his adventures working in LA, to his time building the Jucy business with his brother Dan, Tim's journey is a testament to personal growth, dogged ambition, and a trailblazing spirit.

Our conversation unveils the fascinating story behind Jucy, a car rental company that Tim and his brother Dan started from scratch, and how they managed to innovate the camper van market. It's a captivating tale of unconventional marketing strategies, rapid growth, and the resilience required to overcome the inevitable challenges that accompany a booming business. But it wasn't always smooth sailing; the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic on Jucy forced Tim to make harsh decisions that tested his resolve and upended his personal life.

We also delve into the unique dynamics of running a family business in the midst of a pandemic and the crucial decisions that were made to ensure Jucy's survival. As we wrap up, our discussion turns into the recovery journey with LyLo following the pandemic, the current challenges in the hospitality industry, and Tim's ambitious plans for expansion. This episode offers a masterclass in resilience, innovation, and entrepreneurship. So, buckle up for a thrilling ride through the ebbs and flows of building a successful business from the ground up.

Hear how some of Australasia's most interesting and successful people are utilising People, Technology and Processes to live a productive life.

For more information on Lee Stevens visit www.leestevens.co

Sponsored by workforcery.com

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Time and Motion podcast with me, your
host, lee Stevens.
For over 25 years, i've workedwith businesses all over the
world to improve the technologyand the people within them.
In this podcast, i share someof my experiences and I chat to
guests who generously sharetheir stories of how to or, in
some cases, how not to live aproductive life.
I hope you enjoy the show.

(00:28):
Before we start the show, iwant to talk to you about
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get your first month free.
In today's episode, i catch upwith Tim Alp, who is the CEO of
Lilo, which is a really excitingand innovative pod hotel
concept that's taking NewZealand by storm.
Tim's actually better known forco-founding the iconic Kiwi
brand, juicy, with his brother,dan, which pre-COVID, had over
4,000 vehicles.

(01:51):
In my opinion, it's one of themost fascinating chats I've had
so far with one of New Zealand'strue entrepreneurs.
So on with the show.
Tim Alp, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
How are you going?

Speaker 1 (02:05):
I'm good mate.
How are you doing You well?

Speaker 2 (02:07):
I'm great.
Yeah, you're very good.
Thank you, yeah, no, justlooking forward to this, it's
going to be great.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Where are you on this sunny Friday afternoon?

Speaker 2 (02:15):
I'm actually located in the top floor of our latest
property, which is called Lilo,right in downtown Auckland, so
this is a vacant floor.
As you can see, it's thelargest office you could
possibly get.
It's vacant at the moment,where it's got an amazing view
it looks right out of Auckland.
But it's our sort of ourexpansion opportunity really.
So at the moment it's ouroffice, but not much longer.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
So obviously people listen to this.
It's an audio podcast, so I'mlooking at Tim's background.
It looks like one of thosefancy team's backgrounds, you
know, one of your superimpose,but actually you're going for
the warehouse.
It's actually your real lifebackground.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
It's the real life background.
Yeah, it's the full real lifebackground.
So, yeah, it's cool, thoughit's being located on the site,
on the property.
It's actually great.
So you can, sort of becauseit's brand new, it's a big
project, it's just great to beable to, yeah, to be based out
of here.
Really, Cool.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
So we'll get onto that in a moment.
So before we kind of get intowhat Lilo is and your current
venture, let's just go back allthe way back.
So yeah, where was you boredand what was early life like for
you?
Where was that?

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, sure, so I was born in Auckland, so I'm from
Auckland.
I was actually born on the born, i was raised on the shore, so
I was on the shore there.
So the early part of my lifewas in Albany where I was raised
and I went to school over thereand then I was shipped off to
boarding school at a prettyearly age, sort of the age of 10
.
I was shipped off to a schoolin Hamilton called Southall and

(03:41):
then for three years and thenback and then, yeah, did
schooling in Auckland here,secondary school, and then
really pretty early on went andlived in LA and did a few other
things overseas travel and thensort of got into business.
We're able to be young in termsof running our own business and
setting up our own businesswith my brother, dan.
So did you go to uni?

(04:02):
Yeah, i went.
I was one of those guys.
Students I did a couple of yearsin Christchurch.
I enjoyed uni but I was kind ofdesperate to get into business.
I was desperate to get intowork.
So I did two years.
I wasn't the best student.
I don't have huge amounts ofconcentration, you know.
I kind of looked into the nextopportunity and I was down at

(04:24):
Canterbury.
And then I came back fromschool holidays and I was
working for a tourism company uphere and there was an
opportunity to go and relocatewith them to LA for just on a
six week.
Succumbent and such got overthere, loved it and they said,
oh, would you stay on here for ayear?
So I stopped going touniversity, stopped going to

(04:44):
school and basically went anddid this and started my career
working really and we ended upgoing back to business school.
I went back in 2017, i finished.
I did a three year program atHarvard Business School.
So it took me a long time toget back into studying and

(05:06):
education, but I'm reallypleased that I did, and much
better as an adult student.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Who was you working for right there, tim?

Speaker 2 (05:13):
So I was working for a public company called Tourism
Holdings.
So they were a public listedcompany, they were a camp van
business and they had a wholebunch of tourism assets and they
had an office in LA calledNewman's and I went up there and
, yeah, just sort of lived upthere for a couple of years and
absolutely loved it.
Didn't necessarily really wantto come home but yeah, a great

(05:35):
way to sort of do a bit of an OEand work at the same time.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
What did they have you doing out there?

Speaker 2 (05:41):
I was sort of doing reservation stuff so I realised
that I was quite good in selling.
So if someone got on the phoneback then there wasn't a whole
bunch of emails, so it all went.
So I was on the phone and I wasquite good at selling in New
Zealand and I could sell.
So I thought actually I'mreally good at the sales side of
it.
So I started doing that and itwent really really well and they

(06:03):
liked what I was doing and Iwas able to sort of start my
career off in tourism and Isuppose I was always destined to
be in tourism.
My father was in tourism, mygrandfather owned a chain of
travel agencies called AlpTravel, so always sorry, can you
hear this rain?

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Well, we might be able to edit that out.
That's fine.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
I sort of knew nothing else really.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Okay and then.
So come back to New Zealand.
What was next?

Speaker 2 (06:34):
So, yes, i came back to New Zealand and I was working
with the same company.
I started working with the samecompany again and it was I was
basically selling camper vans onreservations again reservation
sales and that was going really,really well.
And then I got transferred or Igot recruited to run a business

(06:58):
called the Airbus.
So the Airbus was the productbetween City and the Airport
which was owned by tourismholdings and I was the youngest
general manager, i was 22, 23and I went into this business
that was losing about 400 granda year and I went in there and I
said, look, you need to come inhere and turn this thing around

(07:18):
.
So I mean that my boss, when Ifirst got in there, the guy who
was running it, became my 2ICand he was in the 60s.
That was quite an interestingdynamic here on this young buck
coming through.
But I got in there and we tookit to an owner operated model.
We repurposed it, changed itaround and turned it around from
losing sort of 400 grand a yearand making about half a million

(07:39):
bucks a year.
So great experience and sort ofset myself up in that corporate
environment to go further.
But kind of struggled reallywith the I don't know the
bureaucracy or the red tapeassociated with have any time I
wanted to do something.
It was like a massive businessplan and a whole bunch of work
to about do anything.

(07:59):
So I thought, oh you know, itwould be cool to do my own
business, my own thing, andthat's kind of how it all kicked
off.
So I was on the track thecorporate ladder, i suppose and
thought now to hell with this,let's take a risk and go and do
that.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
So this is where you had the new Chris, or the idea
of Juicy.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, it was.
I mean, i think at the time.
It takes me back a little bitnow thinking about it.
At the time I knew I wanted todo something myself.
I knew was if I came from anentrepreneurial family my father
was an entrepreneur, mygrandfather's own business so it
kind of made sense and mybrother at the time was doing

(08:40):
his OE, i was working inAuckland and he came home and
for a holiday, i think it wasand we said why don't we set up
this second tier car rentalbusiness, second tier car rental
business, renting cars tobackpackers?
and so we were like, oh, and wepersuaded some of the family to
give us some money and we wentand bought 35 really shitty cars

(09:02):
of the Auckland Hospital Board.
They were selling and they wereday woos.
I don't know if you ever heardof a day woos.
There was a sign on the backsticker that said there's not
much you can't do in a day woosand there's nothing you can do.
These things were the biggestpile of shit, but it was cheap
and it got us going and we tooka little garage down on Beach
Road, which is in Paddow, whichis right next to all the major

(09:24):
car rental companies and we tookthis garage out and we parked
the cars outside the front ofthe building.
We put four rent signs on themand we waited for the customers
to turn up and no one did so.
It was and we were like shit,what's going on here?
I mean, it got so bad.
I remember getting my brotherto phone the main line from his
cell phone just to see if it wasstill working.

(09:44):
It was no longer.
It was a shocker.
But we didn't realise, ofcourse we were young 23 and 24
or something.
We didn't realise that therewas about 200 car rental
operators in Auckland.
The market was saturated and itwas.
And here are these two littleshits tying to set up this car
rental business to take on allthe other guys.
So it was a bit of aneye-opener for us in the early

(10:06):
days.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
So 30 cars, and what sort of year are we talking here
?

Speaker 2 (10:12):
This is 2002?

Speaker 1 (10:14):
2002, okay, so New Zealand would have been on a bit
of a tourism boom around thattime, so the people were there
and you mentioned that.
Obviously you're trying to takethe technology, make sure that
was all working.
So obviously that was an earlychallenge trying to find clients
.
So how did you overcome that?

Speaker 2 (10:30):
Yeah, i think once we realised that no one was just
going to turn up and walk in andtake the vehicles, regardless
of how cool we thought we wereand how cool we thought our
logos and brand was, we actuallycaught easy when we first
started easy and wide, and so wethought shit, how do we create
a point of difference?
200 car rental operators, sowhat we didn't realise at the

(10:50):
time and it sounds stupid now,but at the time you couldn't
rent a car Directly online.
I mean, you couldn't get aninstant confirmation.
You'd you go in there, you'dfill out a form and it would
email to the company and thencome back to you 12, 24 hours
later and say, yes, this is,this car is available.
So we thought that's our own,we'll build a website that gives
instant availability andconfirmation.
We had no back end, so we hadno reservation system, so we had

(11:14):
a big whiteboard with 30 carsOh there and we'd write on the
whiteboard when they went out,when they came back.
But we had a website thatenabled people to get instant,
instant confirmations and thatjust sort of took off And it
started going crazy.
The problem we had is we're twoguys, not necessarily well
organized, and so we had thiswhiteboard.
That was always wrong and itwas an absolute shambles.

(11:35):
But business started coming inand we started renting them out
and we used to have this.
It was quite cool.
You service like any businessstarting off business, you have
goals right, and our goals arereally simple.
You know, if we had no carsleft in the garage At night, we
played basketball, wasbasketball hoop set up there, we
played basketball.
That was our incentive And Iremember one time we were was a

(11:57):
Friday afternoon, i never forgetit We were playing basketball,
and so there's no cars.
And I looked over at the famouswhiteboard and it showed two
cars going out the next morningTo some German customer and we
had no cars, no cars coming back.
So I was like shit, what are wegonna do?
You know this was, it happenedquite often.
But what are we gonna do?
I thought, um, shit, okay, youknow I'll do easy solution We

(12:18):
work every single day of theweek, right?
So it was a Saturday next day.
I thought I'll, we'll come,i'll just start work late on
that day, like nine, nine,thirty or something, and I'll
let my brother go in early andhe can deal with the people with
no cars And and so so I didthat.
So I got into work under 9 30.

(12:39):
I was driving down, pine oureyes And I looked over and where
our office was, there was awhole bunch of Customer standing
outside the door, the lockeddoors.
I was like shit, what's goingon here?
We's what I realized.
A dad had seen the whiteboardas well and had exactly the same
idea.
So he was gonna start late andlet me come in early and deal
with the Germans.
So, um, so that's so.

(13:00):
Anyway, i remember we got there,we opened up, we gave them some
coffee, go some breakfast andthen love the hold.
Two cars dropped off early.
Oh, they probably weren't evenreally, they were probably on
time but but and we were able toturn them around and get them
out again.
So that's kind of how westarted it and but it was really
we did a lot of gorillamarketing.
We didn't have any money, so itwas a lot of them.
So we'd park rental cars nextto avers budget and hurts and

(13:24):
put our sign on there.
From 25 bucks a day or whateverit was.
We would Sponsor backpackerjelly wrestling competitions.
I don't know, we were just youdo everything, because you it
was gorilla.
I had no money So we had to do.
We put flyers on the back oftoilets and hostels and do all
this sort of stuff.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
But yeah, we were just a bit hungrier and kind of
work one thing that alwaysappealed to me was how Iconic
the juicy brand was, and so didyou sort of Come cock that you
know, down a pub one afternoon,or is it the case of one of
these That's as you always do,or sketch on the back of a
napkin?
did someone have lucky eurekamoment?

(14:01):
Yes, so where did the thinking?
and because quite a bold, boldcolor as well, like the green.
And So where did that all comeabout?

Speaker 2 (14:09):
I'd like to say we did these massive workshops and
we did this market research Andwe did none of that.
Basically, i think we're reallyI mean, as we originally were
called, easy and And it wasfunny I was we got bigger and we
started, you know, we got, iknow, a 100 cars and then we had
200 cars and then we're 300,and this was before just for you

(14:29):
to camp events and and We wererunning at this brand good, easy
, and it was bright and wasgreen under why it was green,
it's no real logic behind it,but it was green.
And then I got an email.
Well, that wasn't an email as aletter which tells you a few
years ago I got a letter and itwas from this This lawyer of the

(14:50):
UK was actually from a companyof the UK.
This guy called steelyos whowas, who owned a small business,
good, easy, jet easy jet Yeah.
Tiny business and he basicallysaid wrote this letter saying
we've, we've heard about you, weown the brand easy around the
world.
You need a cease and assist.
And so I did what most 25 yearold Kiwi guys did I got the

(15:13):
letter, i ripped it up, i threwon the bid and said if you want
us to come down and get us toscenario, and that was fine.
And then about two weeks laterThere was a company, another car
rental business were on theroad from us, started up and it
was called easy 123 or somethinglike that.
And I was.
I was Roper born.
I phoned up our lawyer.

(15:33):
I said you need to send it.
You know, let it.
These guys tell them the ceaseand assist.
This is the trading off ourbrand, etc, etc.
And the lawyer goes to me Iit's cool to have.
Just send me your trademark inyour or your IP protection stuff
, send me all of that and I'lldo it.
And I was like trade, what,yeah, i knew was trade me.
And I was like, oh okay, and sowe couldn't do anything about

(15:55):
it and it kind of I was like ohshit.
And what I realized then wasactually you need to own a
particular brand.
So we got together with thisreally cool Red design company
called radiation, which was abrand specialist company, this
crazy girl called Jill Brinson,who was amazing She's a bit nuts
and she won't mind me sayingthat, but I got together here
and between us here and I, wecame up with this brand called

(16:17):
juicy and we rebrandedeverything overnight and we
changed everything and Yeah, andand kind of how it all took off
, but I think probably the the,the real iconicness of the brand
where it really took off withour camp fans.
So we started getting involvedwith camp fans and we, you know,
we bought again.
We bought 10 bands out of Japanand we converted them and and,

(16:40):
historically, all camp events onthe road, we're all these white
little white fridges crowdingaround right And we were like,
oh, you know what if we Paintedthem really really bright and
colors and just put a bit oflife to these things as opposed
to the boring white You knowshagging wagon.
So We did, we painted them allgreen And at the time this was

(17:02):
just before you rebranded juicy.
They were cool, easy, and thenwe put this, this like 1940s,
world War 2 bomber, you know,girl, on the side of Like, like
a meant for spell type thing.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Yeah, I'm virgin.
You do something similar.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Lucy and we did it and that was really cool And
didn't really work when we werecalled easy, but it worked
better when we were called juicy.
But we had it on the side andwe did get eight of these
vehicles and what it did was notonly did it create this, people
would see the vehicles thewhole time, but they always
thought we had a lot morevehicles than we did.
You know, and there's a companycalled green calves in Auckland

(17:39):
a few years ago And you'd swearthey had like hundreds of
calves.
They had like 20 of thembecause you'd see them the whole
time.
I'm quite iconic but what italso did for us was that enabled
our guests to you know, withoutdriving along, they'd see
another juicy, they were wavingand they go to campgrounds and
they'd park up and they'd shareeverything together.
And it was, um Yeah, justcreated this brand.
So, to answer your question, along way, lee, it wasn't through

(18:02):
design, it was probably justjust through.
We just tried things and didthings differently and it just
kind of just took off.
What?

Speaker 1 (18:10):
was the Moment where you realized that camper vans
was gonna be appealing.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
I Think I think we always knew it was.
I think what happened was backthen you could either do two
things.
You want to start a campaignbusiness, yet two options.
The first one was you go to amanufacturer and you buy brand
new camper van.
Now it cost you I don't knowfor a two birth van type,
because you like 60 grand orsomething We didn't have, 60
grand We didn't have, yeah, sowe couldn't do that.
Or you'd buy a vehicle of aExisting camp for an company

(18:41):
that's been a camper van for sixyears with them.
But after six years you knowthat vehicles pretty beaten up.
It had a lot of tourists gothrough it, or so those are two
options.
We thought that's something towork for us.
What we did realize is that ourguests, i guess, didn't mind if
I had 40,000 kilometers on theclock, they just wanted
something that had a newerinterior that was sleeping in.
So we had this idea to go toJapan and buy second hand

(19:02):
chassis, second hand bands andwe fit them out with brand new
interiors and we did.
What we did was We.
Then we looked at you know, wedidn't even we'd never built a
camper van.
I don't know how to know I'mnot very overly DIY, so building
anything would be Would be abit of a challenge for me, and
my brother was the same.
So we spoke, we started talkingto a lot of people and realized

(19:23):
that and said who'd be good atbuilding an interior for a
camper van?
And someone one day was reallyweird said oh, you know, she
talked to boat builders.
They deal with all small spaces.
Maybe they could do something.
So we did and we actually endedup To getting a company to
build the full interior tofiberglass.
So not only was it cheaper, butit actually was.
It all comes from.

(19:43):
On molds, it's really easy.
But it was really easy for usto clean the vehicles at the end
of each hire So you couldtechnically even spray them out.
So what was taking ourcompetitors half a day or a day
to turn around a vehicle wouldtake us 45 minutes.
So again, this was theinnovation piece and in the
camper van market It hadn'tchanged in 30 years.
You know the money people havebuilt been changed.

(20:04):
So this was all very new anddifferent.
And then once we started doingthat I mean a brand new camper
on a second-hand chassis.
Again, it just sort of took offand yeah, it was great so It
was interesting.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
I came over in 2014 and so when we started seeing
some of the countries, firstthing we did was hire juicy van
and, as you say, the thing thatalways amazed me was the How
clever you was with there withthe design, because, you know it
was, there was so much in therein such a short space.
You know literally every singlekind of Millimetre been thought

(20:37):
about in terms of how you canmake most of that space.
So you know, it was reallyinteresting to see.
But when we came over I'mguessing around 2014, you would
have been probably at the youknow on on the boom or start of
the boom.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, probably was start of the boom.
I mean, we grew really quickly,probably between I 2012 to 20
Before I just fall, go Yeah.
So we kind of that was kind ofthe with the really big growth
period for us.
You know, you go from a smallYeah, 30 a 30 our vehicle fleet
up to and probably a high lightat the highest point, about just

(21:13):
over about 4,000 vehicles.
So it's a big, you know bigchange in a big different
business and you get for thestaff and yet different, all
these locations everywhere andit kind of really really changed
.
So there was a there was a verysort of hockey give Period of
time and that came.
You know, that had itschallenges as well.
I mean as much as your.
I think the hardest thing forme was just was people.

(21:34):
You know We were, we kneweveryone, lee, so we knew we
knew everyone in our businessAnd then when you start to not
know everyone, then it becomesreally interesting.
Right, like you, you know weneed them, we need their
partners, we need their wives.
Sometimes they both hadpartners and wives.
We knew them And we weren't ahierarchical business, were a

(21:55):
family business, and so that was, um, it was kind of hard to go
from that Business, somethingwhich was a lot bigger and at
times really challenging toadjust.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
So many early days, like a lot of businesses.
I'm guessing You have that, asyou say, it's like the hockey
stick right, you kind of it's.
It's it feels like you'rewaiting for your tree called to
get up and run and then you geta bit of success.
You know Alex is working, soyou keep doing more the good
stuff that you carry on working.
So, as you say, you had those30 vans, you've got the mold.
So I'm guessing it become likea bit of a production line where
it was okay, we need morevehicles and you're trying to

(22:28):
forecast some guessing aroundhow many vehicles you're gonna
need.
But When that hockey stick doesto spike, you know, was there
like two or three things thatyou Were big decisions you made
in the business that caused thatspike.
What I mean, what and what werethey?

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, i think I mean there was, there definitely was.
I mean you say you know you'reforecasting your fleet.
To be honest with you, weprobably more had a mentality if
we build it, they will come.
You know the old field ofdreams, sort of analogy, and and
so we yes, we had.
But it was kind of like if webought a hundred vehicles, We
sell a hundred vehicles.
If we built, and that wasprobably, yeah, again, there's

(23:06):
probably a little bit ofarrogance of youth to a certain
degree.
You know, you're like, you knowwe, we know where we can, we
can build it.
So that was probably where sortof.
And then we started to getinvolved into Australia,
launched in Australia, welaunched in the US, we, we got
involved in it.
We bought half of a cruisecompany in the Milford Sound, we
launched hotels.
So we kind of, i suppose did,started doing a whole bunch of

(23:28):
stuff around the periphery.
Once we had that core juicybrand that we then tap into
other areas.
So that was probably when westarted to go from into
Australia that obviously was abig growth State for us and into
other product and offerings aswell.
So that's kind of where, youknow, we started to become more
than just a Camp of Anne andCaradall business.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
We started to become a brand that could actually
target off into different areasfrom a technology perspective,
what were some of the thingsthat you'd have had to put in
place in order to scale, as Isay, because you don't just go
from 30 to 4000, like you know,overnight, right, you would have
had to put in some fundamentalProcesses or tech or people,
right, and so so was there, likeyou know, a few things that you
did that enabled that growth.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, there was.
I mean, we we had to startbringing in people, which was a
learning curve.
Right now to bring in Peopleare smarter than us.
There's been a lot of people.
We did partner with thirdparties around technology And,
to be fair, we probably a lookback on it now We didn't
necessarily do the best job atthat.
We would talk kind of Like youdo in a fast-growing business

(24:33):
You just sort of build on top ofeach other and as opposed to
just trying to do this, and sothat was kind of a bit of a
challenge for us.
But I think once you want tostart bringing in the right
people, and then you know thatand that's, you know, afraid to
pay them what they're worth andand actually think like a big
business That becomes, thatbecomes a lot easier sort of do

(24:54):
some of the stuff that you doand handle that growth.
But I think anything withgrowth is, i mean, you know, we
used to say There was a sayingwhich was um, revenue as vanity,
profit is sanity, cash isreality or something like that.
Yeah, and, and it was so true.
You know, we were for a lot oftimes We were chasing revenue

(25:16):
and we and sometimes that wasnot necessarily.
That was a bit of profitlessrevenue as well.
But you, you always have thisromantic notion that I got 10
million revenue, i could get 20or 50 or 100, and and that's
great.
It's great to have thoseambitions there.
But you know, we know, withCOVID now, you know, yeah, we
didn't really take a drink onthe way through.
We just keep reinvesting backin the business, back in

(25:38):
business, and then one day theborders closed and 90% of your
business disappears overnight.
Demand, yeah.
So there's a few lessons to belearned there.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
I remember seeing Tristan speak at an event I
think it's one that when I wasworking for, for Intogen, and
one thing that amazed me was howimportant data And it makes
sense now when you look back buthow important data was to make
those decisions you know interms of You know where you're
gonna grow, or you know whatvehicles you're gonna use, etc.
And I thought that was alwaysquite interesting and certainly
and and In retrospect, becauseobviously that those, those

(26:13):
decisions would have been backedoff the back of date, whereas
in the early days it's probablygut feel I'm guessing.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah, and I think again, we we needed to.
Probably it was partnering withthe right.
You know we put in place thingslike power bi and we did stuff
which enabled us to get a lotmore real-time Information
either.
One thing we were always verygood at, and we still pretty
much are, is, you know, therewouldn't be a day that goes Well
.
Every single day we log into Howmany bookings have we got?

(26:39):
where are those coming from?
So you kind of those keymetrics that run the business,
to drive the business, you needto be across even the biggie
again, further removednecessarily from answering the
phone and taking the bookings.
We could still do that.
We can still answer the phoneand in my new life here with in
terms of Lilo, you know, i canstill book a book a pod, book a

(27:01):
hotel.
I still know how many bookingsevery day come in.
I know you know what ouroccupancy, what our utilization
of occupancy, you know.
Yeah, so those are, those arereally important key metrics.
But having that data But again,you've got to partner with the
right people.
You gotta be happy to investthe capital late, yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, and I think I agree with you in terms of those
growth numbers.
So about the profit, is itprofits for sanity?
and, yeah, there's everyone theturnovers for vanity, and for
me, like you're having run acouple of businesses now,
there's definitely thismentality.
I think it comes from thosekind of old-school PWC, kpmg

(27:38):
Types.
You know, oh yeah, you need togrow your numbers and you need
more headcount and we sort ofstuff, and Sometimes you're
looking at, well, i might wantmoney with half a lot of people,
so why are you, why am I doingthat?

Speaker 2 (27:49):
I know we had a business that we it was quite a
good story.
We're eating these two youngkids I say young kids and not
young, but they were youngerthan us.
They came and bought some,bought a camp van, about maybe
10 camcans office one year Thiswas, you know, maybe back in
2015 or something and theybought 10 Old vehicles that
wanted to run their own camp vanbusiness.

(28:09):
And then they came back thenext summer and they said we
want to buy another 20.
And I remember the timethinking, oh, hang on, we don't
build a computer up.
You know why don't we?
just We're not gonna sell you20, but why don't we give you a
hundred and we'll take 50% ofyour business and we'll run a
Second.
Yeah, secondary brand doesn'tget sold by the trade.
It's very, very low end andonly ran over summer, so it

(28:33):
didn't run over the winter withfish when the fish were there.
It's when demand our way tosupply.
You didn't need to build a bigbrand, you didn't need big
offices and staff and you knowall that sort of stuff there And
it became probably the mostprofitable cam van business in
the world for the number ofassets.
That I had right, because itjust was a little spell below.
You know smell of an oilie ragAnd necessarily, and I think the

(28:55):
challenge for a week you'vesaying to them was don't become
us, you know.
I mean, have a business thatonly works in summer.
You know there's only a certainamount of employees and It's
really profitable and and itcomes down to you know that
return on funds employed and andso I think I Didn't want me to
change anything.
But I think now that when Ithink back on stuff Bigger isn't

(29:18):
always better.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, and we come.
We'll come on to the secondhouse you build, because I Speak
about that at the moment tofriends and to business
associates is that the secondhouse you build always better,
right?
So all those learnings you'veprobably gained from the first
time around or second timearound you, in the third time,
you kind of you've got it nailed.
Okay.
So you mentioned and youtouched on the cove it I, i spec

(29:42):
there.
So By the time, what was that?
2020, 2020, 2021 cove had comearound.
How many vehicles have big wasjuicy at that point?

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Oh, yeah, we were.
We were a big business.
Yeah, it was, um, it exceeds100 million revenue.
Again talking about revenue,but I mean, the reality is it
was we had offices in NewZealand, australia, the US we
won.
in Germany We had done our fordstaff and manufacturing and in
Helensville, i think, 44,000square foot factory.

(30:14):
Out there We had cruise company, we had Combination.
So yeah, we were a sizable NewZealand tourism business.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
Yeah, and then covid started creeping in and we heard
about these, this virus out inAsia, which I think probably,
like a lot of people, i wasthinking I'll just be like SARS
and it would just be a localizedthing, we won't have to worry
about that.
So What was some of the earlyinklings, or some of the early
things that you started noticing, i guess, and that really

(30:45):
affected the business?

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yeah, i think, um, it was funny.
I was funny, but I was in, iwas in Europe and It's about in
January of the year that covidobviously broke out.
I was.
I used to go up there two orthree times a year visiting all
of our customers, and I was upthere and I remember going
through Germany and Switzerlandand Scandinavian countries and

(31:08):
it all started to get a littlebit weird, like people would,
some people would cancel theirmeetings, no, it would shake
your hand.
You know, you have to rememberit was just kind of strange and
then and people started tocancel bookings And it was all a
bit weird.
Ironically, then I went back tothe UK and it was like a
Tuesday in London, sunny day,and all the pubs are just

(31:28):
overflowing with people Allhugging each other, and so the
UK obviously didn't care as much, but um, which you probably
realized, but um, but it wassort of like It was weird.
It was kind of like it just hadto get a bit weird.
And then I flew back to NewZealand and We started seeing
cancellations coming in, whichwas kind of bizarre, and then

(31:48):
literally The announcement thePrime Minister announced that
she was closing the borders andEverything just stopped and all
the majority of our business was90% of our business, over 90%
was international tourists Andthey were either.
If they heard the country rightnow, they were told to go home
and if they weren't here, theyjust cancelled and that'll stop.

(32:10):
So we went, you know, said wewent from yeah, i'll revere you
up here and 90% of the businessstopped overnight.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
So what did you do them?

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Ah, you get, you have a bit of an oh shit moment.
You panic.
I mean, remember we weregetting our senior management
team senior leadership team wasa Sunday or a Saturday And we
got them into into our boardroomAnd it was like we caught up
the war office and we got inthere and we were like shit,
what are we gonna do?
What?
what are we gonna do?
We got, you know it's, it's allwell and good to have.

(32:40):
Yeah, our business was abusiness that made more money
over summer, pretty much, andthen you built and you
consolidate over winter.
And then you, yeah, you wentagain in summer.
But here we are, we and andeveryone was saying you know,
the banks were saying theythought the same was gonna go
over two To three years.
No one knew everyone panicking.
We had 40 odd leases.

(33:01):
You know branches and locations, so we literally had to Had to
get get a month straight awayand try to try to find a way to
To survive.
And unfortunately, you know, thefirst thing that you have to
look at is your.
One of our biggest cost was wasa He cop, he come, you get 400
people for a start.
So we had to desperately lookat At reducing that.

(33:24):
So we had to exit, you know,200 plus people within probably
within the first couple of weeks, and remember you couldn't do
it in person because the wholecountry Locked out.
So you do it all via teams andvia zoom and that was really
tough from a business like ours,which was incredibly family
orientated, to have to do thatSo impersonal.

(33:45):
We had people who were with usfor years and years from the
start.
So that was really very tough.
And then we had to do, dealwith landlords To try to, you
know, get some rent relief andget stock, and then, ultimately,
we had to deal with with, with,with our funders, the
financiers, to try to see how wecould get through this.
And As it turned out, you know,we were Basically we had to

(34:07):
raise capital in what wasprobably the worst ever trading
conditions to ever raise capital.
And it's very when you go outto someone third parties and you
go, this is our business, thisis our forecast for the next two
to three years, which showsnothing, you know, and this is
our predicament.
We're another moment.
You don't, if you definitelylike, your value for your assets

(34:28):
.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
How was you feeling around that time?

Speaker 2 (34:32):
And Yeah it was.
It was an horrific time.
To be fair, it was.
You know, you kind of you hadto stay strong For your team.
I mean, there are times youspend 20 years of your life
Building up something, buildingup a business, and and also you
spend 20 years telling your Yeah, your family, your wife, your
kids, when you're never there.

(34:52):
I would travel for Four to fivemonths a year So I miss out on
every single.
Your parent, teacher, um chapelservice, you know Family
holidays.
You, you were traveling.
We're always working and it wasalways on the basis that it was
always building the biggerthing.
Right, i don't know, we'll havethe big event, the big event in
some point in time.
We'll, we'll sell this and runoff to the Sunset or something

(35:15):
like that, i don't know.
And now you're facing thereality that actually you got a
business which you know yourequity just been shot in, the
shot down and And You're in areal predicament.
So coping wise.
You know, yeah, there was somedark days, mate, and I wasn't a
very good sleeper at the best oftimes.

(35:35):
So I'm and I kind of had thisRomantic notion that I could
survive on three or four hourssleep and I used to be able to
do that like I wasn't.
I still can, but I thought itwas a sort of a badge of honor.
Fuck, i don't need.
Yeah, 12 hours sleep.
I can get by on four, but itwas um, yeah, but, and I
remember some very long nightsand not a little sleep over that

(35:57):
period.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
So at that time you're working with your brother
and so I'm gonna ask this is atwo-prong question So What was
that, like you know, in the Isuppose, the the good days, you
know, when your business isgrowing and you're thriving and
What was it like and howimportant was that relationship
You know, especially in those,maybe those darker days, like
you mentioned.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Yeah, i mean, my brother and I are very different
.
I think from the outset we, we,we look totally different and
and we're very different interms of personalities and you
know, and We've made differentskill sets.
And then I think, in this,throughout the journey, that was
probably the, that was probablyhow it worked for you very well
.
I mean, he I was just to say heknows exactly what's under the

(36:41):
bonnet of a car and I have noidea, but I know how to make it
look really good.
And that was kind of the waythe models sort of sort of
worked and how we you know, youalways say you employ your
weaknesses and I thinkultimately that's kind of how
this, the strength of weaknesshas worked.
So growing up it was, andgrowing through growing the
business, that worked reallywell.
And then I suppose, when the youknow, when the shit at the fan

(37:01):
and things, things got reallydifficult, you can always rely
on family.
You know, you can always behonest with family.
So I think that probably in theother week was an asset as well
Was it for us is that you knowyou could, you could have those
different conversations And beable to just be upfront and
honest, and so I think that wasIn the end.
I think it would have been alot harder if it was, if we

(37:23):
weren't in a family environmentand saying that it also Yeah, we
used to always say we'd neverlet the fan the business put the
family at risk.
You know, risk in terms ofrelationship, wise, and look, i
think we're really fortunatethat it never happened, even
when, you know, i made thedecision to to step away and he
made the decision to stay.

(37:44):
That didn't you know, thatdidn't drive us apart, if you
think, probably makes you alittle positive.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
So how did that pan out then, tim, in terms of the
continued lockdown and, as yousay, no income coming in,
continue probably over a year,80 months worth of lockdown and
no tourists, etc.
And I know we had stops andstarts along the way, so, but
how did that all kind of soeventually.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, i mean what we realized is when the you know,
when you're yeah, i rememberhaving a risk registry, i know
any of your business you shouldhave, yeah, and we'd have things
like I don't know terrorism,climate change, interest rates,
i don't know Exchange rates wenever had global pandemic as a
result of someone eating amonkey, and so it was sort of

(38:34):
like we were like, you know, younever knew how to plan for this
.
And we also had.
Our business model was we tooka lot of like a lot of bookings
would come in well in advance totravel, so a lot of the
Europeans would book well inadvance and they would pay a
deposit.
So we would have, you know, wemight have three, four, four
million bucks with the depositsin there.
Well, of course, as soon as theboard is closed, everyone
started canceling you right sideof wanting the deposits back.

(38:55):
So not only did he have leases,staffing, funding costs, posits
, you know, it all sort of cameup so long short of it.
We had to raise capital.
We had, you know, we had asupportive bank, but they were,
they were saying, look, this is,this is ugly.
We think the markets gonna getworse.
And they were.
They were exposed in a wholebunch different fronts, not just

(39:17):
with us but with other operatedother industries.
So we had to raise capital.
So we engage with PWC and Theywent out and looked for Our
partners, for people to come inthere and take it, and we had
quite a bit of interest and, tobe fair, it was all.
It was all based on adistressed asset, right?
So, yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot ofInterest from people who were

(39:38):
quite keen on on picking upsomething for a great brand, a
great economic New Zealand brand, for relatively cheaply, and.
But there was risk becausethere was no income coming in.
So, and look, we were.
We had a number of parties,mostly of Australia.
We had some that I thought wewere really a good fit for us
and some that we weren't,weren't necessarily the best fit

(40:00):
for us and and Ultimate the endof the day, you know we, we was
our business but wasn'tnecessarily all our decision, if
that makes sense.
Yeah, so you know we had, wewere probably encouraged to go a
certain direction And thatdirection, from my perspective
again, this is just speaking forme Probably wasn't the
direction that I thought was theright one for the business And

(40:21):
it was mainly on the basis thatthat that decision was to sort
of break the business up and atthe time we had accommodation,
cruises, camper vans, and Istill thought that there was the
opportunity, was ready to holdthat all together under the one
brand.
But the party that we were sortof being encouraged to go with
Was only really interesting thecampaign side of the business,

(40:44):
and that was fine.
So I made the very Difficultbut quick decision bizarrely
difficult but quick decision toinnocence walk away and Dan
decided, yeah, his position wasdifferent to me, his
circumstances were different tome and he decided to to stay

(41:06):
With the campaign business, therentals business, and that's
what happened.
So you know, and at the backend of 20 or 21, i, yeah, i
decided to To, yeah, leavesomething that you know be my
life for 20 years and was kindof like a chop.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
I'm gonna guess it's probably a bit of sweet Feeling
at a time because in some ways,as you say, you essentially
you're walking away from yourbaby or you You're what you've
seen become a baby and gruntinto a grown adult.
But it's probably a sense ofrelief, i'm guessing as well.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Yeah, i think it was.
I'm thinking back on now.
It was definitely.
I mean, there's always those,though We never go through
something.
You have these, that, thesedark times, right, and what I
used to do.
I used to wake up in the middleof the night and I always think
about the past.
You know, i said it's like theold away.

(41:58):
So, song, you know, don't lookback in anger, but I used to
always.
I used to always think aboutthe past.
And and then social media was abitch Right, because it used to
keep reminding you the wholetime because I'll tell you, and
got Instagram, facebook would go.
Do you remember you're doingthree years ago, you were in
October, first with a wholebunch of agents, or you're
opening this location in the US,or doing something.
So I really struggled with that, always having to look back,

(42:21):
and so a little bit.
So it was a relief that therewas no longer.
I suppose that, but there wasalways there was a whole bunch
of sadness, to be fair, becauseit was like a loss.
It was a lot like a loss ofopportunity.
It was the people that I reallystruggled with the most letting
go, saying goodbye to thepeople.
I remember when we, when weexited everyone you know 200 odd
people in the first couple ofmonths from the business and It

(42:43):
was horrific.
You know the teams and we goteveryone back together.
When the lockdown ended, we goteveryone back.
When there was a little gapbetween lockdowns, we got
everyone back here a drink tosay goodbye to everyone, and it
was.
I was really nervous about it,lee, because I thought, oh, you
know, we've, you know thesepeople lost their jobs and yeah,
but, mate, it was the mostcathartic thing I've ever done
and what was really cool wasthat everyone was actually okay.

(43:05):
Some people had started doingcourses, some people got new
jobs, some people just takingsome time out with their
families, and But everyone wasokay and in fact, they were more
concerned about down and I andthat was really.
That was Really.
And you realize, when you builda really strong culture within
a business, that's what happensand and I was really lucky And
then you know we, we spend a lotof time and effort on Culture

(43:28):
and on knowing our business andgetting out to our people and in
the darkest, darkest days,darkest hours, that's when it
all pays off.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
I can completely understand that and I think, as
I say, if I would imagine noneof them to held it against you
guys, the situation was in.
They probably felt so they saylike, yeah, we can go and get
another job right, was you guys?
you know It's your baby.
So I think a lot of the staff,most of them would imagine,
would have been.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yeah, they were, they were amazing.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so you've, you've, you've
walked away.
Did you have some time off?

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah, i did It was.
I kind of just counted it inthe room.
It sounds like she was there.
I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
No, it all blends into one.
I was saying this the other day.
You can start seeing peoplewith masks on on TV programs, on
some of these like cop programsand like kids.
That why they wear masks.
That's what they've been doing,like two or three years ago,
but anyway.
So yeah, you had no time off.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Yeah, i just want to say if I ever had time off I'd
get really fit.
They saw probably blame, blame,blame being a little bit
overweight and not being thatfit, on the fact that I was just
working so much, so I didn'tget very fit.
So maybe I didn't have verymuch time off, i can't really
recall.
But I sort of was, i walkedaway and left, but I kind of I

(44:45):
still kept helping theaccommodation side.
So when they business, when itwas sold to a New Zealand based
private equity who no longeractually owned the business it's
gone to Australian based onenow But when, when they split
the business up, i'd sold justbefore COVID, we'd sold 50% of
our accommodation business whichwas called Juicy Snooze, to a

(45:07):
public company of Australiacalled Event.
So they have the cinemas and alarge hotel portfolio And so we
sold half to them before COVID.
And then they picked up theother half as a result of the
businesses being being sort ofsplit up And I sort of helped
them with that process.
I really liked them.

(45:27):
I was the one who was, you know, who got them on board with us
and you know, to take in thefirst place.
So I felt a kind of obligationas well, but I loved what they
did, the version they saw forthe accommodation business.
So I did that and they said,look, they'll come on, they'll
take up the other 50%, butthey'd like me to help them, you
know, roll the concept out Andat the time we were building

(45:49):
this flagship property inAuckland here in Coch Street
which had started it startedbefore COVID and stopped and
started and stopped and started.
So I wanted to get that finished.
So I kind of went straight intothat really and helped them
sort of get this projectcompleted.
And then at the same time wedecided to rebrand and move away

(46:09):
from the juicy, which was morefocused on rental cars, gap vans
, and we launched this new brandcalled Lilo and we opened in
December last year this sort of400 person budget lifestyle
property in Auckland.
And yeah, it's been amazing.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
So Lilo is born And, as I was saying earlier, i'm
guessing a lot of thoselearnings and a lot of those
things you probably high intypes, wonderful thing, right,
you know, but a lot of thosethings you've probably learned
how to do, how not to do.
You turn up at the next placeand just people become second
nature to you, right?
You kind of know what works.
So yeah, to talk to us aboutLilo and the target market, i

(46:45):
suppose that that market thatyou're trying to capture, Yeah,
i mean.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
I mean Juicy snooze was our sort of pod hotel
concept that we launched and westarted and we built one in
Queenstown and one inChristchurch and they went
before COVID BC.
Before COVID Everything hadgone really really well And the
product had been really wellreceived and gave us the
confidence to do Auckland, whichis this big flagship building
in the middle of town here.

(47:11):
And so they've gone.
Really, you know really wellAnd ironically, as a result of
COVID about, auckland lost about70% of its hostels beds.
We still probably lost about60% on average, so they just
couldn't survive, right, youknow, and I was a lot of the
hotel market were able to takemy queue or we're able to pivot

(47:33):
that horrible word that I can'tstand.
Everybody said to me you needto pivot.
I'm like, pivot to what Like,but a lot of the market had been
pivoted, they've been had gone.
So ironically, actually, andwhat normally happens is that
set of the markets where theyoung travelers tend to come
back sooner they don't reallycare too much about, they want

(47:56):
to travel.
And they've been two years ofbuilt up OEs in the UK and
Europe And so everyone wascoming to New Zealand and there
was no accommodation.
So we kind of bizarrely gotthrough and then landed on a
really sweet spot And and welaunched Lilo in December And
it's just gone nuts, you knowwe've we get from sort of zero
to 90, 100% on day one prettymuch and really hadn't stopped

(48:19):
since.
And and the products been really, really well received.
It's probably the largest ofits type in the country And
we're now rebranding ourChristchurch and Queen Sound
properties from juicy snooze toLilo.
We're doing our first one inAustralia.
At the moment we've got six orseven other projects in
somewhere.
Difference of the stages.
So yeah, the opportunity and Idon't know kind of it's been

(48:39):
great.
On the number of frontally one,it's been brilliant from a.
You know it's kind of given usanother.
It's just that we can launchthis new thing and it's exciting
and new.
But it's also just given methat one, which has been
probably the most thing I'm mostgrateful for and really
grateful to the event guys forbacking, still backing the

(49:03):
strategy and still backing theconcept, even despite, you know,
going through what went throughand it definitely wasn't the
ideal start to any marriage.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
So who's the target market you're going after then
at Lilo?

Speaker 2 (49:16):
It really varies.
Like, historically, a hostelwould be an 18 to 35 year old.
You know a person who drinksJagerbombs at three in the
morning, right, it's all changed.
You know we've got what.
We've got those markets.
We've got Kentucky stay with us, for example, so we've got that
market.
Then we'll have you a 55 yearold British couple or 75 year
old Germans, or you have yourpeople who will come and live

(49:38):
here for a month, go to buy andpay and live for a month, go to
Bali and live for a month andwork.
It's a real cross section andour offering.
So we've introduced these newpods which are your own private
sort of sleeping quarters, andthey're very, very cool And it's
kind of opened up people whowould never have stayed in the
hostel before.
They were staying less.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
And so we it's interesting we don't call
ourselves a hostel because we'renot really a hostel- I was
about to say that because Ithink that there's definitely a
connotation associated with thatword.
right, it's just, you implyit's going to be smelly, it's
going to be 55 bunk beds in aroom, that kind of thing, you
kind of shared dirty communalareas, it's kind of.
that's kind of the negative, isuppose, perception.

(50:16):
So I don't yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
It's really hard, mate, because you look, in
Europe, everyone, I mean you can, you can say, but everyone
refers to a hostel.
Yeah, everyone says the hostelsare a place where you have
multiple people living intogether and communal living.
So it is a dirty word, but Ithink what's happening now is
we're finding that, you know,people walk in here in the first
thing they say is, oh, this isan hostel, so?

(50:39):
but I actually don't know whatto call ourselves Like.
We're not a hostel, not a hotel, we're not a motel, we sort of
just this like this, which isthe light low.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
And that sometimes that's the challenge when you,
when you create your owncategory right, because there's
enough really to go on Yeah,when you go into an existing
market and you kind of gotcompetitors that you will least,
you notice there's some in it,right, but when you go into a
new category it must be quitetricky.
One of the questions I'm goingto ask and this is probably a
challenge for a lot of host boattourism businesses in New

(51:11):
Zealand is and this would haveprobably been a thing at Juicy
as well is those seasonalworkers that I suppose we have
to allow for, because, as yousay, you earn all your money in
the summer and it obviously diesdown a little bit in winter.
And I've done work with peoplelike NZ Ski who have a bit of
income coming in the summer butrealistically it's the winter,
they earn all their money andyou get some people that go from

(51:31):
the ski mountain to the beachesand whatnot.
But from a business sense, howdo you deal with that big influx
of workers that you have to getin each year?
So yeah, from a seasonal sense,sorry.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Yeah, it's really hard.
I think the I mean it's greatthat the majority of our crew
here whether it's at Lila orwhether it's historically juicy
are our customers, you know whatI mean, like the ones who will
hire campers, they will stay inour properties and they will go
on the boats etc.
So they're always.
So that's kind of good.
We know the brand, it worksreally well and the product is

(52:10):
really popular with those people.
I think you've got to have a.
I mean you want the culture andthe organization to be really
strong and having people come inand go out and come in and go
out.
That's why it's so importantthat you get this the induction
side of it and you have reallystrong values and people
understand them.
So that's really difficult.
One of the big challenges withus at the moment is that you
know if you look at Queen Sound,for example, you know we need

(52:32):
staff, like everyone does thatthere's nowhere to live.
There's no, and we had a realproblem when COVID hit and
everyone basically left thecountry or didn't go and a lot
of people moved away fromtourism.
So you had a lot of people who,or a lot of that IP, had left
the industry And I think there'sa real issue around quality of

(52:52):
not just quality of product,because the product wasn't
re-invested in it, but qualityof people, lee.
So you know we don't wantpeople coming to New Zealand
going oh, it's a beautifulcountry and scenery is great,
but actually it was reallyexpensive, the customer
experience was shit, the staffpeople weren't very happy.
We don't want that.
So that's probably the biggestchallenge facing the industry is

(53:13):
how do you get people back intoit?
And then how do you?
but then also like places likeQueen Sound, how do you house
them?
Where do you?
you know, how do you stay?

Speaker 1 (53:24):
Yeah, it's a bit sad hearing those stories about
people sleeping in their cars,because you know they're young
and they've made a mistake,They've been thrown out of their
flat and they can't.
They then can't get anotherplace right until they're
sleeping in the cars, sleepingin the van.
So yeah, and certainly theinfrastructure just isn't there.
Really, for how many peoplewant to travel to Queen's Town,
right?

Speaker 2 (53:44):
And so but.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
I get, yeah, yeah, but the pod hotels, i think it's
kind of, you know, it'sinteresting because I think,
like even you go to Japan, imean I remember when I went out
there for the World Cup, likemany moons ago, but that was
like almost accepted out there,right, especially business
travelers.
You know, if you think aboutwhat you do, you go to some
meetings, you have something toeat, you just need something to
stick your head.
You wake up, you jump on aplane and you and so I'm just

(54:05):
wondering whether that'ssomething that the audience that
you maybe would be talkingabout.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Yeah, it is.
We get people who you know livein Waikiki come across here and
stay, or live in Queen's Townor live in Hamilton, come up and
work for a couple of days, andso we definitely get a bit of
that.
I mean, it's a, it's a real.
We get sporting groups.
We've what we've created as aproduct that actually has appeal
.
We get families that come andand we'll take over a whole pod
room because it's cheaper thanif your family are fire, taking

(54:31):
a pod room as opposed to gettingmultiple hotel rooms and
another property.
That's a bit of an adventureand they love it and there's bar
downstairs.
So I think the the diversity oftarget audience is is great.
And again, if I said to you thatit was all planned, if, if we

(54:51):
designed it accordingly, i'd befull of shit.
You know, if we sort of builtit again and I don't, i don't
mind the fact that we still runa little bit of that If you
build it, they will comementality, because what it does
do is you.
You get a product which youthink is is great, you think
it's going to work andeverything, and then you then
got to build a strategy aroundhow do I promote this and get
other people into it.
And one thing I would say overis it made you think outside the

(55:17):
square and you, you sometimesget do get complacent.
You know, every year the Germanswould arrive in here and every
year that hire by hire, everysingle campaign in the country,
and and you wouldn't have to ifyou didn't need to target anyone
else.
And then, when they weren'tthere, you were like, oh shit,
what am I going to do?
So you got to try to get localson board, we got to try to get

(55:37):
families into pods, and, and wewould never have done that
without COVID.
So why is COVID a bitch And Inever want to see it ever again.
You do learn some stuff.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Yeah, 100%.
Where's the next places on yourradar in terms of expansion?

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Yeah, i mean for us we've.
We've still got a couple ofplaces in New Zealand that we're
keen and we're obviously keenfor Wellington.
We don't have a bait uplocation there.
We've got Auckland, grosius,queens, down, wellington, some
of you that I'm keen onpotentially to help out.
Rotorua is another area whichwe think is an opportunity And
then rarely it's, it's Australia, and obviously EVT is an

(56:14):
Australian ASX listed business,australian based business, and
they've seen how Auckland's goneand they just, you know, i
think we all go ship.
Actually, there's a realopportunity to get a pretty
strong foothold in this marketand the brand's been well
received, the products we'vereceived.
So it's now a question of goingand going quickly.
So, australia, key gateways, asI said, we've got a number of

(56:35):
projects on there at the moment,so we're really excited about
that.
And then, actually, this, this,i had a very I had a guy come
and stay with us about sixmonths ago who no, i'm not six
months ago, six weeks ago whowas, who has been very, very
successful in the accommodationspace in Australia and, yeah,

(56:55):
built billion dollar businesssort of scenario And he came to
me and he said Tim, you needthese in Asia right now.
So you know, like, so there's,there's no lack of opportunities
.
I just think, you know, i thinkmaybe the 23 year old, 25 year
old, tim would have just gone.
Great, let's go, just go, go,go, go go.
And maybe the 47 year old, 48year old Tim goes.

(57:16):
Yep, massive opportunity.
We want to go, we want to gofast, but let's just make sure
we, you know, we've, only we've,we've we really clear around
that prioritization and strategy.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Yeah, and I think that a lot of business people do
that.
I think it's, and I think it'seven more so when we've had like
the good times, right.
So so I've seen a lot of people, a lot of my contacts, and I
always say they like, the guysand girls are spinning 12 plates
at a time, okay, but how do youconstantly?
why don't you just focus onthree plates, you know, and get
those like spinning you knowforever and then going after
four, five and six, right, andit just you just say, if you

(57:50):
don't have that focus and youdon't see things through.
And the other thing I alwayssay is it's like copy and bad
DNA, right.
So if you don't get the DNAright in that, in like that
first thing or that second orthird thing, it's, you know,
when you're trying to scale,you're just copying the bad DNA
as well.
So, yeah, i fully, fullyappreciate what you're saying.
Okay, what other things haveyou got in the pipeline?

Speaker 2 (58:11):
I was away of a of an investment in another business
called comfy, which is an onlinemattress store, So that's cool
Social enterprise, which iswhich is really, really cool.
I worked with these twoincredible women who started it
during COVID and when I sort ofwalked away from the juicy piece
, i kind of helped them out overthat period just from a brand
and marketing perspective Andand it's just a really cool

(58:33):
little concept and idea and andit's got really good potential.
So love that, so that's, that'ssomething that I'm I'm
passionate about as well.
So doing that And then you knowI've got.
I'm always sort of looking forother opportunities, other
things I probably wouldn't.
Historically I thought I mightget involved in some external

(58:54):
direct to ships or stuff, but Ithink, to be honest, right now
you know, the cup's pretty fulland the opportunity really is is
lullab.
I mean, as much as I'm I'mpassionate about other things
and but if we can nail this andif we can replicate what we've
done in Auckland, it's, it's the, the opportunity's huge.
So yeah, pretty much that's myfocus at the moment.
And again, to your point,around multiple plates in the

(59:16):
air, i don't really have the.
I just I just don't want to doit.
Again, it's not necessarily thebig, it's not.
I just really want to.
I want to do what we do reallyreally fucking well.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Yeah, what's your top three challenges at the moment,
then?

Speaker 2 (59:34):
with Lilo Capacities are a challenge, like in terms
of you know, we're a small team.
We need a much bigger team tobe able to grow.
We've got we're so lucky tohave all the EVT people You know
the two.
You know we've got thousands ofpeople, but but it's it's
probably just getting the rightteam involved to move quickly.

(59:56):
So that's that's a challengeand it's own right Finding
locations that work really,really well for us, and we've
looked at lots of them over thelast 12 months.
But we've become quite pickyabout what works and what
doesn't work, and there's a lotout there that does work, but
we've, you know, we've looked ata lot of stuff that and again,
we just won't compromise, so wewon't go.

(01:00:17):
Oh, in fact, you know thatcould be Lilo, it might work, it
might not be the ideal.
We just won't do it.
You know we've.
There's just too much risk andand we want to actually make
sure the customer experience isso good, and that's what we're
finding now is we're gettinglots of people coming to us,
going.
I've got this building or thiswould be great here, And so you
know, another challenge isreally prioritization.

(01:00:37):
It's like you know, it's 24hours in a day And we're very
best to focus our time andeffort.
That gives us the maximumreturn.
And in the past, you know, isaid I said yes to most things.
In fact I've probably said yesto everything And now it's not
necessarily.
You know, i'm quite enjoyingsaying no.
Yeah, it lists the right thing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Power of no, okay.
So as we come to the end of thepodcast and the show, i asked
this question of everyone andyou've kind of already touched
on it, so it'd be interesting tosee if you're consistent in
your answers.
But I always say, if you couldgo back and give 21 year old Tim
some advice, what would that be?

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
21 year old Tim.
He was quite good fun.
21 year old Tim, he was quite,he was, he was.
He was living in LA.
He was, um, yeah, living thelife.
He was.
He enjoyed life, as I do now.
Oh look, i think I think from myperspective, um, it was funny
when we were going through this,the darkest time during COVID,

(01:01:40):
and I went through some you knowreally dark stages and I ended
up having to, you know get, um,get some, you know get.
I went and saw, got some help,got some medication, all the
things that you need to do toget through, right, um, and, and
I remember someone one pointsaid to me I don't know who it
was, they might have sent out anemail or a text or something
And there was a quote from andI'm not someone that, one of

(01:02:02):
these people that has quoteswritten all over the rooms and
stuff like that, i'm not, butthis kind of resonated with me
And it was a quote.
It was a quote by AbrahamLincoln.
The quote just said this tooshall pass, And it was a really.
It was very at the time.
It was really really good for me, because I remember thinking,
actually, it's total shit rightnow.
It's dark, it's, you know, badplace, but this will pass.

(01:02:23):
And actually it also worksreally really well for when
things are going really well aswell, and you got to make sure
you make the most of it becausethat will pass as well.
And so, looking back on that,um, i would tell my 21 year old
self that actually you knowyou're going to have the highs
and you're going to have thelows.
So celebrate the how to thehighs and and understand, when

(01:02:45):
the lows come, that not onlywill you learn from the and
ultimately be better off as aresult of them, but they also
won't be there every single day.
You know the things will getbetter and things, then things
will improve, and I think that'swhat the beauty of experience,
the beauty of hindsight and agegives you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Good answer.
It was quite deep, wasn't it?
Very deep, good, good, tim.
Thanks so much for coming on tothe show and spending an hour
with me Fascinating here aboutyour journey and what's going on
with Lilo and really lookingforward to the ongoing success
of Lilo and one of thosebusinesses.
I'm pretty certain I'll bepopping along and trying it out
at some stage.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Excellent lead.
I really appreciate theopportunity and congrats on the
podcast and that has beenawesome.
Thank you, Cheers Tim.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
So that's another great episode, done and dusted,
as always.
I'd love to hear from you ifyou know anyone that's got a
really good story to tell abouthow they are, or not, living a
productive life.
If you want to get in touchwith me, please do so by my
website, wwwleastevansco.
That's wwwleastevansco.
You can email me, lee atleastevansco, or get in touch on

(01:03:58):
LinkedIn, which way I also hangout In the meantime.
Have a good week.