May 20, 2024 • 50 mins
When the spotlight fades and the roar of the crowd becomes a distant echo, what becomes of athletes who once commanded the world's gaze?
Lee McDermott, a gymnast whose hands gripped Olympic rings, now grasps the hearts of listeners as he recounts his extraordinary life's tale. From the pinnacle of Olympic glory to the spellbinding stages of Cirque du Soleil, McDermott's journey through mentorship, career transitions, and the relentless chase for greatness envelopes us in a narrative that transcends sport.
In the company of icons like Lionel Messi and under the influence of legends such as the Jackson family, McDermott unveils the fabric of ambition and artistry that weaves through his storied career. His candid reflections on mental health in the aftermath of elite competition shed light on the intimate struggles of identity and purpose. It's a conversation that reaches beyond medals and accolades, touching the core of what it means to rebuild oneself after the final score has been settled.
Embark with us as McDermott shares wisdom on networking, the written word, and the enduring impact of mentorship. His global odyssey from Tokyo's tremors to Australia's tranquil shores underscores a life lived in full, with family and fulfillment guiding each chapter. As the world looks towards the 2032 Brisbane Olympics, McDermott stands as a testament to legacy, performance, and the indelible mark that global sporting events leave on communities and the generations to come. Join us for this exploration of a champion's heart and mind, where every turn of the conversation unveils a deeper understanding of life after the final bow.
Hear how some of Australasia's most interesting and successful people are utilising People, Technology and Processes to live a productive life.
For more information on Lee Stevens visit www.leestevens.co
Sponsored by workforcery.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Time and Motion podcast with me, your
host, lee Stevens.
For over 25 years, I've workedwith businesses all over the
world to improve the technologyand the people within them.
In this podcast, I share someof my experiences and I chat to
guests who generously sharetheir stories of how to or, in
some cases, how not to live aproductive life.
I hope you enjoy the show.
(00:28):
In a couple of months time, theParis 2024ics kick off and as
spectators, I think we can onlybegin to imagine how much effort
(00:50):
and intensity goes intopreparing for those events.
I was really lucky to catch upwith a former olympian, a chap
called lee mcdermott, recently.
He's a former olympian, he'snow a consultant and author and,
more interestingly, he's thehead coach of Cirque du Soleil,
one of the most world famousshows that's been around for
decades.
Lee was really, reallyinteresting to talk to.
(01:13):
He just was very open about theintensity and the sacrifices
you put in and, more recently,some of the productive, eventful
years he's had over in the USrunning shows in Las Vegas and
working with Lionel Messi andMichael Jackson's family.
So one of these guys who isvery, very good and productive
(01:33):
in his own field.
Really good interview.
Really enjoyed catching up withLee.
Hope you enjoy the show.
So your name.
It's Monday morning, leeMcDermott.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, I'm good.
Thanks for having me on yourpodcast.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So I really appreciate you making the time
to come on and, as I was justtalking about off air, it's all
about business productivity andpersonal productivity.
But just looking at yourbackground and you're doing the
research for yourself it's fairto say you've had a very
eclectic career, lee.
So just before we kind of getinto kind of what you're doing
at the moment, let's just talkabout like early beginnings and
(02:10):
where you grew up and, I suppose, how you end up living on the
Gold Coast where you are now.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's a long story.
I had a very varied background,not a normal background.
I lived in Peckham in Londonfor many years as my youth side,
but I got into sport reallyearly.
I did gymnastics for 17 years,right up until I was 27, and I
went to Olympics in 1996, doubleCommonwealth Games gold
(02:36):
medalist and bronze medalist,double British champion.
I'm the only one ever in theBritish titles to win all six
apparatus and all-round final,all-round medal as well.
So, um, yeah, a strong, strongsports background.
And after I finished with my,with my sport, I went I actually
(02:58):
moved to new zealand to becomethe new zealand national coach
and so I was new zealandnational coach in gymnastics for
about eight years, kind of gotburnt out towards the back end
and Cirque du Soleil asked me tojoin them.
So I became the head coach andI was the youngest ever head
coach for Cirque du Soleil and,yeah, I stayed with that company
(03:23):
for nine years.
I went to Tokyo for four yearsand then I was the head coach
for the Michael Jackson show inLas Vegas and I was very
privileged to work withMichael's family and Michael's,
you know, dancers,choreographers and everything.
And of course with Cirque duSoleil.
I did that for eight years andthen we decided to.
(03:45):
So that was in Las Vegas, andthen we decided that we wanted a
bit of a change as a family.
So we moved to Australia andcurrently ended up on the Gold
Coast, and right now, in about aweek or so, I'm heading back to
Cirque du Soleil again for theLionel Messi show.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So how does Cirque du Soleil and Lionel Messi become
a mashup?
How's that a thing?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Each show has a theme , I guess.
So it might be a Mexican theme,or it might be purely acrobatic
, or it might be like theMichael Jackson show, a purely
dance show, and the Lionel Messishow.
There was a collaboration justbefore COVID and the Lionel
(04:35):
Messi show.
There was a collaboration justbefore COVID, you know, with
foot jugglers and freestylefootballers and Leo the Lion,
based around Leo the Lion andLionel Messi and soccer.
So they kind of mashed it alltogether and created a show
around Lionel Messi.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Okay, and obviously, playing on his brand and his
popularity around the world andbeing a mega star that he is, I
think it's fair to say obviouslysports has been your and sports
and obviously anything thatrevolves around athletics and
gym has been your career.
Did you know at an early agethat that was a career you
wanted to pursue, or was itsomething you fell into?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
It's really interesting because I wrote a
book last year about this wholejourney and literally as soon as
I started GM I kind of gotreally hooked about just
throwing myself around andhaving that kind of freedom as a
sportsman.
And probably a year or two intoit all I wanted to do was just
go to the Olympic Games.
(05:22):
There was nothing that wasgoing to stand in my way.
All I wanted to do was just goto the Olympic Games.
There was nothing that wasgoing to stand in my way.
And so Olympics was just theultimate dream of every sports
person, right?
So obviously I got up toOlympics and I did the Olympics
in Atlanta in 1996.
And I think it was just thatafter that transitioning into
(05:46):
giving that knowledge andexperiences to younger athletes
as well.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
So obviously I went to New Zealand to be national
coach and obviously club coachand just wanted to give back and
hopefully have some of thoseathletes and future athletes go
into Olympic Games and you know,know and see if I can give that
, that back and share myknowledge.
And you grew up in the uk likemyself, so not a million miles
away but say south of the riverand, as I mentioned, peckham is
kind of where most people knowonly falls and horses.
So you know, get called del bya few times over your life but
the you end up in new zealandand I was.
One question I'm always curious, because I've done it myself,
is what would a noticeabledifference is between the
(06:28):
countries when you kind ofarrived, you know, fresh face
off the plane.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
It's a really interesting one.
My wife and I have had manydiscussions that you know.
We all generally speak the samelanguage, but when you go to
the Southern Hemisphere it's amuch smaller environment.
Whereas in Europe I wastraining, let's say, monday to
(06:54):
Thursday, flying out Friday,competing Saturday, sunday, come
back Monday and then startingagain, and Europe is so close
that you've got that competition.
Southern Hemisphere is a lotmore isolated so it becomes very
difficult to have that highlevel of competition.
So one of my goals was to tryand create that internally
(07:16):
within the country, which is notan easy, easy task.
So I realized that it was anuphill battle to try and, let's
say, recreate that internallyand that that was that was
really tough and I know youspent a fair amount of time in
Las Vegas as well, so tell meabout that uh, las Vegas was a
(07:37):
was a great experience, and wespent four years there as a
family um, that was the as headcoach for the michael jackson
show um, so, again, I workedwith michael jackson's
choreographers, dancers, michaeljackson's estate, but also with
circus, and, yeah, just justwhat an experience that was
being able to have, uh, thefreedom to be able to create and
(08:02):
, yeah, just just pulling off ashow with, with a bunch of
people that are like-minded itwas just an absolutely
phenomenal experience.
So, yeah, yeah, did thecreation up in Montreal, move
the show down to Las Vegas atthe Mandalay Bay hotel, and, and
, yeah, that was in 2012, Ibelieve.
(08:24):
So, that's that's.
It's been going a while now.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And what would you say are some of the biggest
challenges you have to have or Isuppose you have when you're
organizing a show of thatmagnitude, especially in Las
Vegas, right?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, the biggest thing that I learned was
collaborating and listening.
Obviously you have directorsand people obviously up the
chain a little bit higher.
They have a vision, they havewhat they want, but also you're
on the creative level whereyou've got to develop certain
skills, drag things out ofpeople that maybe that they
(09:02):
didn't expect to do forthemselves, that maybe that they
didn't expect to do forthemselves, and you've got to
try and come up with this mashof ideas and pulling resources
from everywhere and all yourresearch and, just, I'd say,
collaboration, but also, one ofthe biggest parts, listening.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And was Las Vegas like it's depicted on the movies
, like on Ocean's Eleven and I,and just seen the Elvis movie
recently?
So is there anything like thatat?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
all it is.
And it isn't because when youvisit you just see the strip,
but when you live there, youknow you could go skiing in the
mountains.
45 minutes away you have theColorado River, which we used to
kayak down the Colorado River,see bald eagles and mountain
goats and go up into the hillsand you see wild horses.
But you've also got Red RockCanyon and you've got Death
(09:52):
Valley and you've got so manyother things around that
literally I would go to thestrip just for work.
So when people came to visit wewould be the tourist, but on a
daily basis you just go to yourlocal pub.
You, you, you do your normaleveryday stuff.
It was great for sport, for thekids, um, and there's, there's
(10:12):
a great sense of community thereas well, and I believe there's
only about two million peoplethat live there and 48 million,
I think, visit.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah I've been a few times.
I'm not a massive gambler, uh,when it comes to to the slots
and the, the, um, the, you knowthe dices and all that sort of
stuff.
But I really enjoyed the, theexperience and, yeah, my wife
used to work for an airline, sowe used to go there quite a bit,
but I also had my 30th birthdaythere as well.
So, as you, as you say, I hadum it was one night.
(10:41):
The evening we was on a rooftopbar overlooking the striprip and
it was like something out of aneight-mile wrap.
There was a wrap contest goingon and then, literally two days
later, we were in Big Bear justskiing and having an amazing
time, because no one goes to BigBear.
It's just one of the best-keptsecrets I thought in the area.
But yeah, really cool.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
And I suppose one question I would have is what
was it like bringing up a familythere?
Well, we lived in Henderson,which is the southwest side.
The kids were young, soobviously they're not old enough
to drink and go out and stuffso we immersed the kids into a
lot of sports because it's avery sporting culture in the US.
So we literally did that andone of the good parts is that we
would get a lot of comp tickets, being being part of the
(11:28):
entertainment industry, so we meand my wife would would go to a
lot of shows and enjoy, I guess, our adult life and enjoy,
enjoy the the entertainment sideof of of it.
But we'd also get that nicesporting part for the kids and
the schools were really good andjust yeah, family had a great
time.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Good to hear we're going to jump around a little
bit in this session.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
So I apologize in advance.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So you're an Olympian and both living in Queensland
now in Australia, and we've bothjumped around the world Correct
and Brisbane Olympics in 2032.
So something that'd be veryclose to your heart, and we've
both jumped around the worldCorrect and Brisbane Olympics in
2032.
So something that'd be veryclose to your heart.
So how much effort is reallyinvolved to become an Olympian?
I mean, for non-athletes likemyself, you just go.
(12:15):
That just must be like eight,ten years of pure dedication,
training, all day, every day.
Yeah, so is that a fairassessment?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, I guess what people see in the press and the
news and things like that isprobably only that one to two
percent of the top of themountain.
And then you've got that 90 oddpercent underneath, which is
that that back breaking workthat you you put in, with um,
mom and dad driving youeverywhere, getting up and doing
early morning sessions, likethere was times when we were
doing three sessions a day.
It works out about 30 hours orso a week of training.
(12:51):
You know, I even ended up doingmy school exams, my GCSEs, in
Belgium straight after acompetition.
They would ship the papers outto me and we did our exams in
Belgium.
So there's a lot of work goingbehind the scenes, especially
rehab, prehab physios trips upto the National Centre on
(13:13):
monthly basis and, yeah, there'sa lot of work that goes in
behind it and, like I said,people see that just that last
little 1%, which is thecompetition and people are very
easy to criticize.
You might fall off or make amistake, you know, and that's
eight years' worth of work inone day just vanished.
(13:33):
So yeah, you try and put in asmuch work as you can and what I
believe in is that trying tocreate good training habits,
you'll have a good outcome inthe end, which is obviously the
competition.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, and you had a few Commonwealth Games under
your belt as well.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yes.
So I went to Commonwealth Gamesin 1994 and 98, got two goals,
two bronze Again.
It's the same process, justdifferent competition, and you
kind of have your peaks and yourflows and your troughs of when
you're competing and you haveyour downtime as well what do
you think you sacrificed tobecome such a productive and uh,
(14:13):
you know so well, yeah, Isuppose.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Well, well respected and obviously an award-winning
athlete as well.
So, yeah, what?
What?
What was the sacrifices there?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
it's interesting, a lot of people use the word
sacrifice.
I don't generally use the wordsacrifice because it was a
conscious decision that I madebecause nothing would get in my
way to become an Olympian.
I've made great friends alongthe way.
I've met like-minded peoplethat I still talk to, even to
this day.
So, as far as sacrifice, Iwouldn't use the word sacrifice.
(14:44):
Uh, they're conscious decisionsthat you, that you make um to
to reach your goal does thatmake sense?
Speaker 1 (14:54):
it does absolutely.
Yeah, I think you know it's theclassic works not work if
you're enjoying it, right?
And so, like you know, whenpeople say about all sacrifices
when you're working hard and I'msure a lot of people listen to
this will vouch for that is itdoesn't seem.
Say about sacrifices whenyou're working hard and I'm sure
a lot of people listening tothis will vouch for that is it
doesn't seem like a sacrifice ifyou're enjoying the journey,
but you've got to enjoy thejourney as well, right?
Because, yeah, I hear you.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, yeah, and I didn't see it that way, that it
was a sacrifice.
It was really extremely hardwork at times, but I thrived on
that pressure and I got better.
The more pressure there was,the better I competed, so that
that for me, that was better.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
And what was your biggest memories of of those
Olympics?
Because I can imagine it wouldjust be a blur now, because it's
just you're on the adrenalineand just the magnitude of of
these events which we, I'm sure,we all appreciate.
But now, what was some of thesort of the two or three big
memories you took away from fromthose olympics that you
attended?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
uh, interesting.
I did write this in my bookwhich I published last year.
Um, one of the one of theinteresting ones was, um, when
lymphochristi had gotdisqualified on these hundred
meters and I I just happened tobe in the village going in the
in the lift at the same time ashim and just that lift ride
going up was deadly silent andit was just me and him in the
(16:11):
lift, uh, and that was that wasreally.
That was a really uh, weird,weird moment, uh, but something
obviously that I remember theone of the one of the biggest,
the biggest parts that I tookaway from the competition was
not really having anyrecollection of competing, when
my mind and my body went intokind of a flow state, and so I
(16:36):
remember literally the curtainbeing pulled back and marching
out into the arena, and then Iremember kind of leaving the
arena at the end and everythingin the middle was very surreal
and not really remembering muchabout it I've really just seen
it on tv.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
It was almost like somebody else was was competing
and that and that wasn't me, um,and that that's a very weird
sensation to to have, uh, thatyou become very robotic and uh,
and and it takes over uh and ofcourse, you know my, my wife uh,
being able to come and see mecompete uh was was a highlight
(17:14):
as well to have family come andsee me one of the things I guess
it's a probably a cliche, butpossibly a truth in it as well
is, uh, the the essentially thecareer of an athlete is very,
very short, right, and you onlyget you know x amount of years
and um, you hear a lot now how,um, athletes and and footballers
(17:34):
and all those kind of uh, youknow different kind of athletes
are a better prepared now forwhen they leave or when they
finish their you know theirathletics career, whether that
be coaching or whatever.
So how did you find thattransition from you know athlete
to maybe coach, to maybeworking, sure?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I guess I finished in the late 90s the the education
part around that and the supportstructure around that was still
very much in its infancy, um,and it was almost just like look
after yourself.
So it was a really hardtransition to go from a
sportsman even to coach and thencoach to finish in, whereas the
(18:15):
support structures are muchmore in place now and especially
even after the COVID era aswell.
I think is even morehighlighted the mental health
aspects of post-career part.
I can't say I transitioned veryeasily.
It was pretty tough.
It doesn't mean to say that theorganizations and things
(18:35):
weren't supportive, it just wasin its infancy at that stage
when you say it was tough, whatwas the hardest bit?
never being able to reach thosehighs again internally, um, not,
not, not feeling fulfilled, andfeeling that the sense of loss
(18:56):
or and the loss of identity, umso is that a label that's put on
you that, lee, you're thegymnast or the sportsman, or is
that an internal part, thatthat's, I feel, who I am or was,
and that that sense of, I guess, loss or or losing where you
are?
Um, well, it was kind of kindof huge to to be honest and and
(19:19):
knowing your, your self-worthand what you can give back and
he mentioned the supportnetworks problem and I think it
was just the education justwasn't as prevalent as it is now
.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Absolutely.
How did you get through that?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Well, I finished sport and went straight into
coaching.
I went to New Zealand andstarted coaching and it was I
felt I was doing, I was doingfine, and I'd gotten to the
point where my wife had said,like Lee, I think you should.
I see the doctor and I was like, what are you talking about?
And she went, you know, you'redepressed.
(19:59):
And I was like, don't be stupid, you know, I'm doing well as a
coach and I'm doing, I'm going,I'm going fine.
And I went to the doctors and,um, they literally said you're,
you're, you're depressed.
Um, and it wasn't till, really,the doctor had said that you're
depressed, that I actually thentook on board that I probably
(20:21):
was that way and feeling verylow, uh, within within myself,
and that that within myself, andthat that took some, that
really took some time to toabsorb and and take on because,
um, probably a little bit oldschool, I would just you get on
with it, you, you carry on you,just you, just you, just keep
trucking along and keep going.
It doesn't mean say I was, itwas in a bad way, just it was.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
It just wasn't easy to again to have that sense of
fulfillment yeah, and I thinkwhen that first comes on me,
I've been there as well and asboth, as you get older, you kind
of you have these kind of upsand downs and for me it was a
case of it was all just a bitweird.
You saw, you know, I wasfeeling a bit.
It was flat, I think, as yousay, mine wasn't too.
Um, uh, you know, as as bad assome people have it, but you
(21:07):
just knew you was flat andobviously I had a couple of
times when I lost both myparents at a very early age for
them, and you just, yeah, Isuppose you just go, it's all
quite I think the word surrealbut you just don't, you can't
put your finger on it.
It's like, do you know what Imean?
It's one of those things.
You go, yeah, I know it's notquite why I'm not feeling as
(21:27):
great, and then you look back,you know, 10 years later, and
you go, that was just a momentin my life, you know, and it was
just part and parcel beinghuman.
But uh, yeah, I think at thetime, I think just the weirdness
of how I felt was kind of likethe, the, yeah, I can't really
describe that.
That makes it.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, it's just like nothing excited me, nothing got
me going, nothing, nothing feltlike that there was an urgency
to get up and do it.
Because that excited me.
There was just that sense of um, of adrenaline, purpose and
stuff.
Just yeah, yeah was a struggle.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Okay, and so you, you went into coaching in New
Zealand and then so how did yougo from from?
So you did mention how did yougo from New Zealand to Australia
.
Was or was that?
Was there a bit of Cirque duSoleil in between, or?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
So we went from New Zealand, um, so a friend of ours
, uh, was at Cirque du Soleiland they came to Auckland when
we were there and we're justhaving a few beers and having a
barbecue and stuff, and they'dasked me to put my resume
forward to Cirque and I said,why would I?
I've got the beach, I've gotthis beautiful lifestyle, why
would I do that?
And they basically convinced mejust to put it in.
(22:39):
And I put it in and I literallygot a call straight away going
do you want to come and be atCirque?
So they interviewed me straightaway and they told me look,
you've got these options of LA,saudi Arabia, tokyo, blah, blah,
blah.
But Tokyo was the first show inthe timeline, I guess.
So the family, we took thatdecision to go to Tokyo and the
(23:07):
show was called Zed and it wasin Disneyland, and we thought
that the kids were young.
If we're going to do this,let's do it while the kids were
young.
So we ended up in Tokyo forfour years and after the third
year there was the earthquakeand tsunami in 2011.
Quick and tsunami, uh, in 2011.
And uh, just, uh, that washorrendous.
(23:29):
Uh, family left, uh, the showkind of broke down, tourists
didn't come back.
Uh, we tried to get the showgoing again, but just the
tourists weren't there.
So the show ended up closingand I got offered the job as
head coach for the MichaelJackson one show in Las Vegas,
which I talked straight away.
And yeah then.
So we ended up in Las Vegas forfour years doing the creation
(23:51):
of the show and then being headcoach for four years, and you
know, kids are grown up by thattime.
Maxine, my wife, wanted to goback to work and she just wasn't
allowed to work on the visathat we we'd had.
So we had to make a familydecision of what's what's going
to come next, and Australiaseemed like the the right choice
(24:13):
.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
And how did that come about?
Because you don't just decideone day that you, you know well,
you do.
I suppose because you had aKiwi passport by that point, I'm
guessing.
Yeah, so so you.
So you do one day, like Isuppose I did.
You go right, we're going toaustralia and off you go, so,
but was there something drawingyou there?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
uh, no, just it was more.
Uh.
Wife wanted to go back to work,kids were getting a little bit
older.
What do we want to do as afamily?
Where do we want to live?
And the choices, I guess guess,was Australia, new, zealand,
the UK, stay, whatever.
And we decided it was Australia, that we would give it a go.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Okay, what were the reasons for Australia?
I think I know.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I think we'd been to New Zealand before the UK.
I didn't really have muchdesire to go back to the UK.
Salaries are good in Australia.
You know the weather up here onthe Gold Coast is pretty good.
We could live by the beach,have a beach lifestyle for the
kids.
You know the house backs onto agolf course.
It's green, it's lush, it'sextremely safe.
(25:19):
Schools are good, so it's areal lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Uh, decision, I guess yeah, and most of your career
has been sports or gym or shows.
Um, and I guess one question Ihave there is how do you
actually find that work?
Is it mostly about who you knowfor referrals?
Because, um, certainly inbrisbane and australia I find a
lot of it's like who you knowand there's a lot of referrals
(25:46):
and it's like, yeah, go andspeak to this guy or girl,
whatever and I would imagine inthe sports world, and then you
know in the uh, you know theentertainment world, it's a lot
of that.
Is that?
Is that a fair statement?
Speaker 2 (25:55):
yes, absolutely.
Um, I was the director ofdirector of coaching here on the
Gold Coast and then I took anoperations manager role up in in
Brisbane.
Um, I did.
I did a little bit of work withthe Brisbane Broncos, doing
some movement literacy work andsafety work for them, and also
the Gold Coast Suns AFL team.
I did a lot of injuryprevention work with them as
(26:18):
well.
I had to push quite hard to tryand get into those sports
because that's not a traditionalgymnastics is not a traditional
sport here.
But then COVID kind of happenedand everything went literally
literally downhill.
So I took a job in Singaporewhich was the head of gym in a
(26:41):
really high, prestigiousinternational school over there
and I stayed there basically fortwo years whilst COVID was
happening.
To be honest, since I'd comeback from COVID I didn't really
want to go back in the gym andbe coaching.
Body's a little bit sore andI'd like to change a little bit
direction.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
And just so happened that Cirque gave me a call again
to go on the Lionel Messi showand we just felt it was the
right time for the family okayso what and excuse me for for
reminding you this, but it lookslike you've just turned 50 and
um yes, I have, and so you knowit's probably a time when you
suppose you get to your halfwaypoint, or maybe slightly past
(27:21):
that, and you go.
You know what have I done?
What?
Have I done?
What have I achieved?
We all get there, right, youknow.
So we're getting a little bitolder, but you know, at the age
of 50, what would you say yoursuperhero skill or expertise is
now?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
um, oh, good question .
I would say listening first, uh, but makes makes a big
difference to, especially whenyou're, when you're working, and
that not one one size shoe fitsall, so that there's many ways,
many ways to skin a cat.
(27:56):
So if you're, if you're lookingat problem solving, listening
to everybody, everyone's got gotto obviously an opinion.
But to pull all thatinformation in and then decipher
what works, I think is reallyimportant, and as I've gotten
older I've become more patientwith that.
(28:17):
And being able to listen first,talk second.
Ah good, oh, that's anothergood question.
Um, I've been wanting to write abook for about 10 years.
Uh, just because every time wehave a conversation with people
and we're we're, we're outhaving a drink or something and
and people say, you know whereare you from?
And I kind of didn't want to gothrough the whole process of
(28:41):
gymnastics and life and movingcountries and Olympics and circ,
and you know it's a verylong-winded conversation
sometimes.
So I was in Singapore.
Obviously, lockdown hadhappened, I've got plenty of
time on my hands and I did apodcast and this guy was a
(29:03):
wonderful, wonderful guy.
I did a podcast with him and wefinished, it got released and I
was like you know what, I'mgoing to give him a call and see
if this is something that hewould be interested in helping
me with.
And literally I gave him a call.
I literally laid everything outon the table of just what I was
(29:24):
thinking, why I was thinking,why I was thinking it I've got
plenty of time on my hands andhe became my mentor and
literally we started the processof dictating and doing kind of
like what we're doing now,recording everything, and we
literally started mashingeverything together, started off
(29:45):
70, 80, 90 000 words, andliterally we started mashing
this together and and writingthe book.
And then you've also got tothink about who's this book for,
not necessarily just friendsand family, but but what's the
purpose of the book?
So, um, again, um, just, and itstarted that way and I'm really
(30:07):
grateful that we ended upwriting the book.
The book is for athletes andathletes transitioning into
coaches and again, a lot of thepurpose of the book was about
that loss of identity.
There's a huge section of that.
There's a big section in thereabout the flow state of when
(30:31):
you're competing and what thatmeans, means and and I ended up
having a sports psychologist puttheir kind of spin on it.
What's happening?
Happening chemically in thebrain, uh, versus me, what was
happening to me at that moment,and we we mash that together as
well to um so that people canunderstand what that flow state
actually means and feels like.
(30:52):
Obviously, the transition outof athlete to coaching, um, but
it was also about adversity andovercoming, you know, big
injuries Like I've had big ACLtears and things like that and
how to get over injuries and howto stay focused on your goals
and keep moving forwards.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Okay, what would you say your unique insights are?
Because obviously there's a lotof books out there, a lot of
athletes, a lot of people aregiving some very good insight
there, but what would you saymakes this unique?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
They're very different book to many kind of
autobiographies or biographies.
It's a real journey of how todeal with injuries and how to
deal with, I guess, depressionor loss of identity.
And I put a lot of likelearning tips, what I learned
(31:50):
along the way.
So it's not just writing a bookabout hey look, there's this
gymnast that did ABC.
It's about what did I learnalong the way and what can I
give back to people so that theycan use that.
And if I can help any athletesthat's transitioning into
coaching or post-career, then Iguess I've done my job.
So just yeah, I did a lot oflearning experiences and
(32:15):
reflection pieces through thatbook.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
And the work you've done.
I suppose in the last four orfive years.
You mentioned you've done somework with the Broncos obviously
the local rugby team in Brisbaneor one of them we've since
found out and obviously there'ssome other work with some rugby
teams et cetera.
But have you been known as theguy that helps with X or the guy
(32:39):
that helps with Y?
So have you kind of built up abit of a specialist area that
you get known as and what youget brought in to do?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
I guess, yes and no, like here, it's really hard to
break into those sports andobviously budgets and things you
know make it difficult forteams to break into those sports
and obviously budgets andthings you know make it
difficult for teams to to breakinto.
But, um, I had, I'd had aconversation with somebody over
in the uk and they said, do yourealize that, like, um, premier
(33:09):
league, uh, premier leaguecoaches in the uk have actually
bought your book?
Or um, you know, or maybe evenchampions, the Champions
Division, have bought your book?
And I was like I had no ideathat it had actually reached
some higher level coaching staffin in the UK and I'd spoke to a
(33:30):
sports like sports guru orsports doctor over in the UK and
he said, yeah, there's, there'sa lot of people that have
actually read your book.
Um, you are actually known, uh,so it hasn't, I guess,
translated directly into work,but there is a lot of people
that I guess have read the bookand, um, hopefully, they they've
(33:51):
really enjoyed it what's thefuture got in store for you?
mate At the moment.
It will be going to Colombia,Ecuador, Lima in Peru for this
first half of this year and intothe middle of the year we head
to Miami, which is the home ofLionel Messi, around about
(34:14):
October, November, December,time still to be confirmed.
Obviously, I'd love to meetMessi and for him to see the
show again and what we've donewith the show.
So I'm hoping that I head toMiami, you know, and try and put
(34:35):
into the show some of thethings that I've learned along
the way and make this show agreat show.
I'm not sure how long I staywith the show that could be one
year, two years, three years,We'll see.
But obviously I need to keeplearning.
If you stop learning, thenyou're kind of stagnant, right,
I guess.
So I want to keep learning.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
So I'm going to ask you a question in a slightly
different way.
Is there things that you you'vekind of learned along the way
where you you've kind ofbasically been able to package
up as your ip and I suppose, isthat is that what you're then
taking to the, these shows andthese, uh, the organizations
that you go and work with?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
well, it was definitely something that I did
with the broncos and the AFLteam.
There's a lot of coaching staffand strength and conditioning
coaches that are teachingplyometrics.
But what's the teaching of that?
When you've jumped and you'vebeen swiped or you've been
tackled midair or whatever like,how do you get yourself out of
(35:34):
trouble?
How do you know your depthperception to the floor and
where you are in space?
So what I was trying to do andhave that kind of, I guess,
niche market was you're up inthe air, you're taking that ball
or you're having that tackle.
What happens on the descent,you know.
So people don't realize a lot ofconcussions, yes, that's with
(35:57):
impact with player to player,but a lot of it is falling and
impact with the floor.
So how do you prevent that?
How do you prevent that whenyou stick your arm out, that you
you're not breaking an arm ordoing an AC joint in the
shoulder?
How do you fall properly?
So I did a lot of fallprotection, spatial awareness
work with the teams.
(36:17):
But obviously that'straditional strength and
conditioning.
But there's also that, theother realm of where are you in
that 360 space, uh, when you'reup up in the air and and how to
how to be like a cat and getyourself out of trouble.
Uh, essentially, uh, and thatwas something that, um, I think
the teams really enjoyed, but italso reduces injuries, right?
Speaker 1 (36:41):
big year, 2032, for Brisbane, as we, you know, we're
both in that region.
What do you think that means toQueensland and what?
What?
Some of the things I guessyou're looking at for from from
a yeah, from a slightly uniqueperspective, obviously, having
been at Olympics and been anathlete, you know.
So you do you look at that fora different lens.
Are you looking at, um, youknow the progress and all of the
(37:04):
you know the political sort ofunranglings that are happening,
you know.
So what?
What's your yeah, what's yourthoughts on 2032 at the moment?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I'm super excited that brisbane's gonna have the
olympics.
So, you know, my son is 14years old about eight years he's
going to be prime age tocompete.
He plays baseball forQueensland at the moment but
hopefully baseball is going tobe in the 2032 Olympics.
So to have Olympics on your ownsoil, especially being down we
(37:32):
live in this area but it willalso generate a lot of jobs.
It will generate infrastructure, sporting infrastructure.
You know financial resourcesget pulled into any Olympic
Games.
So I'm excited for this younggeneration to have something
that's on home soil and todevelop sport, hopefully to have
(37:58):
that infrastructure built andwe can.
We can, you know, generate thisnext generation of of athletes
that are now 10, 11, 12, up to14, 15, 16 years old to come
through and have some realstrength and depth with it
within the country, so that thatpart's really exciting.
Also, having stadiums built,having, you know, things like
(38:22):
that for and chances for thesekids to uh, to experience that
will be awesome any strongopinions on the olympic stadium
and what's going on at wool andgabba, whether they they do or
they don't build it whether Ihave an opinion or not, they'll
still do what they want to do.
To be honest, you know like,yeah, the Gabba would be nice.
(38:46):
To be honest, there's biggerparties involved around those
parts and you've got to look atthe big picture.
To be honest, if you look atall of the Olympics that have
happened over the last 20, 30,40 years, there's always been
hey, they're not going to makeit on time, oh, we're over
budget, or we're going to dothis, or we're struggling with
(39:08):
that, or should we even have it.
There's always these storiesand in the end, you always get
there with things and you knowget there with with things and
you know time moves on and andthen you focus on what's the
real part, which is these kidscompeting and and trying to um,
hopefully trying to make medalsand finals and stuff, and all
(39:29):
that stuff then will fade intothe background yeah, I, I know
some of the people that were, um, at the early stages as part of
the the uh organizing committeeand, uh, some of the people
that were at the early stages aspart of the organising
committee and some of theconversations I've had with
those guys and girls have beeninteresting.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
But one thing that I mentioned was, as you will
probably know, growing up inLondon when there were certain
parts of London that wereabsolutely ripe for regeneration
.
So, being a West Ham fan, eastLondon, london and stratford and
um and and what have you youknow they're seeing the
difference in in the area.
So I went back for mygranddad's funeral in in may
(40:05):
last year and caught a game Ithink it was my.
I remember a second game at thenew stadium and we we just
walked around.
You know hackney wick and youknow parts of stratford that you
just would never walked around.
We weren't safe, there wasnothing there.
You know Hackney Wick and youknow parts of Stratford that you
just would never have walkedaround.
We weren't safe, there wasnothing there.
You know, when we was a kid andthey talk about regeneration and
they talk about, you know,impact and legacy, et cetera,
(40:29):
and like, for me that was itthere, right, you know.
All of a sudden, there's nowthis whole new city, kind of the
whole new.
Yeah, the regeneration.
Regeneration was just youcouldn't even uh, you couldn't
even describe it how differentit was.
It was just.
It was just like where are we?
It's like, yeah, that's wherethere used to be a boot sale and
that's used to be the dog trackwas there, and it's like no,
that can't.
But I guess that and that's thefor me, that it's.
(40:51):
I don't think that you'reyou'll see the real impact until
maybe 10, 15 years afterolympic sometimes.
And yeah, probably the same insydney as well.
You know they have had the samething.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
But yeah, that's uh, and that was my, my, my take on
it, but I don't know if you haveany any strong opinions on that
yeah, uh like obviously havinga legacy afterwards, uh, but
again, that's that's part ofthat, what I was saying before
with those kids then havingdirection and facilities and
infrastructure and things.
That's not just for the kidsthat were adults now will be
(41:24):
competing at the games, but thatthen lasts for generations
afterwards.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
So I'm excited for the future, I'm excited for 2032
, but also you know what thatgives for kids afterwards and
hopefully inspires a bunch ofkids to become healthy and and
actually take up sports yeah, doyou think the the legacy that
you know seb cove talked aboutin london so much and was
(41:53):
striving for in terms of, youknow, having the athletic
stadium and we won't go intothat, but you know there was
there was still infrastructurebuilt to support the olympics do
you think that legacy happenedand you think that you know the
impact was there that maybesebco talked about in england?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
um, well, my, my, my generation of gymnasts, we were
the first ones to have receivedthe lottery funding.
Uh, so we were that first realgeneration and obviously we'd
made some good results.
But also, atlanta wasn't agreat result for many, many
sports.
I feel that having the and Idon't want to talk hard term,
(42:31):
but having that lottery fundingplus infrastructure, plus
direction for the kids and forsporting order organizations to
to develop, I think can only bea good thing.
It makes us healthier as asociety to for the kids to have
focus and to have something thatthey can actually go and do.
(42:55):
I I don't know the full impactI've been away from the UK for
many, many years but I hope thatthe thought process behind it
all has played out and I thinkwe are doing well as a nation,
as the UK, in sport.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, I was watching something the other day I can't
remember what it was and it wasquite telling.
And you mentioned, obviouslyfrom your era, that Great
Britain didn't win a lot ofmedals at the time in comparison
to what it does now, and sowhen the table was produced,
great Britain was probablyeighth or ninth.
(43:36):
Oh, look, we've done reallywell.
You know, and that's ultimately.
You know, what most people lookat is the medal hall right.
And then for some reason,something happened around, but
maybe, maybe it was the Olympics, maybe it was the, you know.
It was said, look, we need tochange something here, and I
suppose have you got anyinsights into what that was that
(43:58):
changed?
Because now you know, GB, teamGB is, like you know, at the top
virtually a lot of the timeright.
So what changed?
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I'm not in that inner circle, it's just from what I
understand that the results in96 were pretty dire as far as a
nation and I think there justhad to be a another rethink um
around how, how we're going todo this, Hmm.
So, like I said, I I can't talkout to her and I don't know
that the background behind it.
(44:25):
I I just understood it as thatwe, we hadn't done a great job,
uh, nationally in the 96.
Um, then the lotteryission orfunding came in and there was a
real focus on then trying todevelop athletes and I guess
that's then when really it cameinto play of athlete wellbeing
started.
(44:46):
Athlete education, coacheducation, infrastructure,
facilities, all of that startedto come up and I guess over the
time, learning lessons along theway through the early 2000s,
obviously retweaking, refiningwhat's been learned and
(45:11):
obviously trying to learn from,I guess, mistakes of the past or
whatever.
But I'm not an expert in thatparticular field other than I
know something must be workingbecause we're starting to do
extremely well as a country.
I guess also logistics being inEurope as well.
There's a lot of competitionwithin Europe, so it does make
(45:31):
it easier compared to, let's say, a southern hemisphere where
travel.
If you're going to travel toEurope, you might as well stay
there for three, four, fivemonths, because you need to get
your money's worth of uh okay so.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
So back to your, your , your current day job, and you
mentioned that Cirque du Soleiland and the Lionel Messi uh show
what would be Cirque du Soleil,such a global brand and well
known all around the world.
What were some of the notesnotes for observations that you
had when you started workingwith with that organization?
Speaker 2 (46:03):
well, see, I came from sport, which were which was
very, very disciplined andself-driven.
When you're at Cirque, it'smuch, much more of a
collaboration of people and notnot not one idea fits all.
So there's a lot of, I guess,mistakes along the way and
you've got to learn a lot, butyou've also got to think very,
(46:26):
very quick on your feet.
If something's not working, howdo we get to an end result?
Because there's there's adeadline that you know the show
needs to be produced, there's anopening night and we we have to
get to that point, and so eachperson is relying on somebody
else to do their job and, to behonest, I, I really love that,
that method of that everyone isaccountable for their area was
(46:50):
it um, noticeably different fromthe you know the, the athletics
, um, and from the you know from, from being an athlete?
Speaker 1 (47:00):
because obviously you're going from from what is
competitive and you know a sportthrough to what science is
quite commercial.
So how did you transition fromthat?
Speaker 2 (47:11):
the only words I use is like it's not a sprint, it's
a marathon.
Uh, we, we have so in aresident show division which is
basically a static show, we have476 shows per year.
So you don't have to peak,you've got to be able to spread
that out over that many showsper per year and which, which is
important for longevity of anathlete and longevity of the
(47:32):
show.
So it's a real balancing act oftrying to keep those artists,
athletes, whatever, in the game.
I guess, for that many showsper year.
And you rely heavily on, youknow, strength and conditioning,
rehabilitation, rest, yourphysiotherapy team, the artistic
(47:53):
team.
Again, we've all got to do ourjob to make sure that the loads
of work are reasonable andacceptable for everybody and to
make sure that we can put out ashow every single day.
We've also got to have backupplans and who's going to do
those and they also have to betrained, maintained and make
sure that, again, thateveryone's healthy to be able to
(48:13):
perform.
So it's quite different in inthat in sports you, you've got a
peak and you have yourcompetition.
Then you have a downside, we,this is a much more longer game,
I guess yeah, not like abroadway show where you're
probably impact injuries areslightly less it's, it's it is.
It is hard, don't get me wrong,but we again, it's my job as a
(48:35):
coach to try and balance thoseworkloads what do you think your
experience has taught you?
Speaker 1 (48:40):
If you could sum it up in three words, what would
those three words be?
Speaker 2 (48:46):
As an athlete or with… as a coach.
As a coach, patience,collaboration and listening, I
guess, is some of the mostimportant parts, because you've
got to be able to take on what'sbeen put in front of you.
(49:07):
You might have a plan for atraining that day and your job
is you walk in the room and youhave to read a room straight
away and if those athletes aredown today, your plan might go
out and you've got.
You've got to be adaptable.
So I guess another word isadaptable.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
So that's another great episode, done and dusted,
as always.
I'd love to hear from you ifyou know anyone that's got a
really good story to tell abouthow they are or not living a
productive life.
If you want to get in touchwith me, please do so by my
website, wwwliestephensco.
That's wwwliestephensco.
You can email me, lee atleastephensco, or get in touch
(49:48):
on LinkedIn, which is where Ialso hang out In the meantime.
Have a good week, thank you.
Welcome to the Time and Motion podcast with me, your
host, lee Stevens.
For over 25 years, I've workedwith businesses all over the
world to improve the technologyand the people within them.
In this podcast, I share someof my experiences and I chat to
guests who generously sharetheir stories of how to or, in
some cases, how not to live aproductive life.
I hope you enjoy the show.
(00:28):
In a couple of months time, theParis 2024ics kick off and as
spectators, I think we can onlybegin to imagine how much effort
(00:50):
and intensity goes intopreparing for those events.
I was really lucky to catch upwith a former olympian, a chap
called lee mcdermott, recently.
He's a former olympian, he'snow a consultant and author and,
more interestingly, he's thehead coach of Cirque du Soleil,
one of the most world famousshows that's been around for
decades.
Lee was really, reallyinteresting to talk to.
(01:13):
He just was very open about theintensity and the sacrifices
you put in and, more recently,some of the productive, eventful
years he's had over in the USrunning shows in Las Vegas and
working with Lionel Messi andMichael Jackson's family.
So one of these guys who isvery, very good and productive
(01:33):
in his own field.
Really good interview.
Really enjoyed catching up withLee.
Hope you enjoy the show.
So your name.
It's Monday morning, leeMcDermott.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah, I'm good.
Thanks for having me on yourpodcast.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So I really appreciate you making the time
to come on and, as I was justtalking about off air, it's all
about business productivity andpersonal productivity.
But just looking at yourbackground and you're doing the
research for yourself it's fairto say you've had a very
eclectic career, lee.
So just before we kind of getinto kind of what you're doing
at the moment, let's just talkabout like early beginnings and
(02:10):
where you grew up and, I suppose, how you end up living on the
Gold Coast where you are now.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
It's a long story.
I had a very varied background,not a normal background.
I lived in Peckham in Londonfor many years as my youth side,
but I got into sport reallyearly.
I did gymnastics for 17 years,right up until I was 27, and I
went to Olympics in 1996, doubleCommonwealth Games gold
(02:36):
medalist and bronze medalist,double British champion.
I'm the only one ever in theBritish titles to win all six
apparatus and all-round final,all-round medal as well.
So, um, yeah, a strong, strongsports background.
And after I finished with my,with my sport, I went I actually
(02:58):
moved to new zealand to becomethe new zealand national coach
and so I was new zealandnational coach in gymnastics for
about eight years, kind of gotburnt out towards the back end
and Cirque du Soleil asked me tojoin them.
So I became the head coach andI was the youngest ever head
coach for Cirque du Soleil and,yeah, I stayed with that company
(03:23):
for nine years.
I went to Tokyo for four yearsand then I was the head coach
for the Michael Jackson show inLas Vegas and I was very
privileged to work withMichael's family and Michael's,
you know, dancers,choreographers and everything.
And of course with Cirque duSoleil.
I did that for eight years andthen we decided to.
(03:45):
So that was in Las Vegas, andthen we decided that we wanted a
bit of a change as a family.
So we moved to Australia andcurrently ended up on the Gold
Coast, and right now, in about aweek or so, I'm heading back to
Cirque du Soleil again for theLionel Messi show.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
So how does Cirque du Soleil and Lionel Messi become
a mashup?
How's that a thing?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Each show has a theme , I guess.
So it might be a Mexican theme,or it might be purely acrobatic
, or it might be like theMichael Jackson show, a purely
dance show, and the Lionel Messishow.
There was a collaboration justbefore COVID and the Lionel
(04:35):
Messi show.
There was a collaboration justbefore COVID, you know, with
foot jugglers and freestylefootballers and Leo the Lion,
based around Leo the Lion andLionel Messi and soccer.
So they kind of mashed it alltogether and created a show
around Lionel Messi.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Okay, and obviously, playing on his brand and his
popularity around the world andbeing a mega star that he is, I
think it's fair to say obviouslysports has been your and sports
and obviously anything thatrevolves around athletics and
gym has been your career.
Did you know at an early agethat that was a career you
wanted to pursue, or was itsomething you fell into?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
It's really interesting because I wrote a
book last year about this wholejourney and literally as soon as
I started GM I kind of gotreally hooked about just
throwing myself around andhaving that kind of freedom as a
sportsman.
And probably a year or two intoit all I wanted to do was just
go to the Olympic Games.
(05:22):
There was nothing that wasgoing to stand in my way.
All I wanted to do was just goto the Olympic Games.
There was nothing that wasgoing to stand in my way.
And so Olympics was just theultimate dream of every sports
person, right?
So obviously I got up toOlympics and I did the Olympics
in Atlanta in 1996.
And I think it was just thatafter that transitioning into
(05:46):
giving that knowledge andexperiences to younger athletes
as well.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
So obviously I went to New Zealand to be national
coach and obviously club coachand just wanted to give back and
hopefully have some of thoseathletes and future athletes go
into Olympic Games and you know,know and see if I can give that
, that back and share myknowledge.
And you grew up in the uk likemyself, so not a million miles
away but say south of the riverand, as I mentioned, peckham is
kind of where most people knowonly falls and horses.
So you know, get called del bya few times over your life but
the you end up in new zealandand I was.
One question I'm always curious, because I've done it myself,
is what would a noticeabledifference is between the
(06:28):
countries when you kind ofarrived, you know, fresh face
off the plane.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
It's a really interesting one.
My wife and I have had manydiscussions that you know.
We all generally speak the samelanguage, but when you go to
the Southern Hemisphere it's amuch smaller environment.
Whereas in Europe I wastraining, let's say, monday to
(06:54):
Thursday, flying out Friday,competing Saturday, sunday, come
back Monday and then startingagain, and Europe is so close
that you've got that competition.
Southern Hemisphere is a lotmore isolated so it becomes very
difficult to have that highlevel of competition.
So one of my goals was to tryand create that internally
(07:16):
within the country, which is notan easy, easy task.
So I realized that it was anuphill battle to try and, let's
say, recreate that internallyand that that was that was
really tough and I know youspent a fair amount of time in
Las Vegas as well, so tell meabout that uh, las Vegas was a
(07:37):
was a great experience, and wespent four years there as a
family um, that was the as headcoach for the michael jackson
show um, so, again, I workedwith michael jackson's
choreographers, dancers, michaeljackson's estate, but also with
circus, and, yeah, just justwhat an experience that was
being able to have, uh, thefreedom to be able to create and
(08:02):
, yeah, just just pulling off ashow with, with a bunch of
people that are like-minded itwas just an absolutely
phenomenal experience.
So, yeah, yeah, did thecreation up in Montreal, move
the show down to Las Vegas atthe Mandalay Bay hotel, and, and
, yeah, that was in 2012, Ibelieve.
(08:24):
So, that's that's.
It's been going a while now.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
And what would you say are some of the biggest
challenges you have to have or Isuppose you have when you're
organizing a show of thatmagnitude, especially in Las
Vegas, right?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, the biggest thing that I learned was
collaborating and listening.
Obviously you have directorsand people obviously up the
chain a little bit higher.
They have a vision, they havewhat they want, but also you're
on the creative level whereyou've got to develop certain
skills, drag things out ofpeople that maybe that they
(09:02):
didn't expect to do forthemselves, that maybe that they
didn't expect to do forthemselves, and you've got to
try and come up with this mashof ideas and pulling resources
from everywhere and all yourresearch and, just, I'd say,
collaboration, but also, one ofthe biggest parts, listening.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And was Las Vegas like it's depicted on the movies
, like on Ocean's Eleven and I,and just seen the Elvis movie
recently?
So is there anything like thatat?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
all it is.
And it isn't because when youvisit you just see the strip,
but when you live there, youknow you could go skiing in the
mountains.
45 minutes away you have theColorado River, which we used to
kayak down the Colorado River,see bald eagles and mountain
goats and go up into the hillsand you see wild horses.
But you've also got Red RockCanyon and you've got Death
(09:52):
Valley and you've got so manyother things around that
literally I would go to thestrip just for work.
So when people came to visit wewould be the tourist, but on a
daily basis you just go to yourlocal pub.
You, you, you do your normaleveryday stuff.
It was great for sport, for thekids, um, and there's, there's
(10:12):
a great sense of community thereas well, and I believe there's
only about two million peoplethat live there and 48 million,
I think, visit.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah I've been a few times.
I'm not a massive gambler, uh,when it comes to to the slots
and the, the, um, the, you knowthe dices and all that sort of
stuff.
But I really enjoyed the, theexperience and, yeah, my wife
used to work for an airline, sowe used to go there quite a bit,
but I also had my 30th birthdaythere as well.
So, as you, as you say, I hadum it was one night.
(10:41):
The evening we was on a rooftopbar overlooking the striprip and
it was like something out of aneight-mile wrap.
There was a wrap contest goingon and then, literally two days
later, we were in Big Bear justskiing and having an amazing
time, because no one goes to BigBear.
It's just one of the best-keptsecrets I thought in the area.
But yeah, really cool.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
And I suppose one question I would have is what
was it like bringing up a familythere?
Well, we lived in Henderson,which is the southwest side.
The kids were young, soobviously they're not old enough
to drink and go out and stuffso we immersed the kids into a
lot of sports because it's avery sporting culture in the US.
So we literally did that andone of the good parts is that we
would get a lot of comp tickets, being being part of the
(11:28):
entertainment industry, so we meand my wife would would go to a
lot of shows and enjoy, I guess, our adult life and enjoy,
enjoy the the entertainment sideof of of it.
But we'd also get that nicesporting part for the kids and
the schools were really good andjust yeah, family had a great
time.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Good to hear we're going to jump around a little
bit in this session.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
So I apologize in advance.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So you're an Olympian and both living in Queensland
now in Australia, and we've bothjumped around the world Correct
and Brisbane Olympics in 2032.
So something that'd be veryclose to your heart, and we've
both jumped around the worldCorrect and Brisbane Olympics in
2032.
So something that'd be veryclose to your heart.
So how much effort is reallyinvolved to become an Olympian?
I mean, for non-athletes likemyself, you just go.
(12:15):
That just must be like eight,ten years of pure dedication,
training, all day, every day.
Yeah, so is that a fairassessment?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, I guess what people see in the press and the
news and things like that isprobably only that one to two
percent of the top of themountain.
And then you've got that 90 oddpercent underneath, which is
that that back breaking workthat you you put in, with um,
mom and dad driving youeverywhere, getting up and doing
early morning sessions, likethere was times when we were
doing three sessions a day.
It works out about 30 hours orso a week of training.
(12:51):
You know, I even ended up doingmy school exams, my GCSEs, in
Belgium straight after acompetition.
They would ship the papers outto me and we did our exams in
Belgium.
So there's a lot of work goingbehind the scenes, especially
rehab, prehab physios trips upto the National Centre on
(13:13):
monthly basis and, yeah, there'sa lot of work that goes in
behind it and, like I said,people see that just that last
little 1%, which is thecompetition and people are very
easy to criticize.
You might fall off or make amistake, you know, and that's
eight years' worth of work inone day just vanished.
(13:33):
So yeah, you try and put in asmuch work as you can and what I
believe in is that trying tocreate good training habits,
you'll have a good outcome inthe end, which is obviously the
competition.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, and you had a few Commonwealth Games under
your belt as well.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yes.
So I went to Commonwealth Gamesin 1994 and 98, got two goals,
two bronze Again.
It's the same process, justdifferent competition, and you
kind of have your peaks and yourflows and your troughs of when
you're competing and you haveyour downtime as well what do
you think you sacrificed tobecome such a productive and uh,
(14:13):
you know so well, yeah, Isuppose.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Well, well respected and obviously an award-winning
athlete as well.
So, yeah, what?
What?
What was the sacrifices there?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
it's interesting, a lot of people use the word
sacrifice.
I don't generally use the wordsacrifice because it was a
conscious decision that I madebecause nothing would get in my
way to become an Olympian.
I've made great friends alongthe way.
I've met like-minded peoplethat I still talk to, even to
this day.
So, as far as sacrifice, Iwouldn't use the word sacrifice.
(14:44):
Uh, they're conscious decisionsthat you, that you make um to
to reach your goal does thatmake sense?
Speaker 1 (14:54):
it does absolutely.
Yeah, I think you know it's theclassic works not work if
you're enjoying it, right?
And so, like you know, whenpeople say about all sacrifices
when you're working hard and I'msure a lot of people listen to
this will vouch for that is itdoesn't seem.
Say about sacrifices whenyou're working hard and I'm sure
a lot of people listening tothis will vouch for that is it
doesn't seem like a sacrifice ifyou're enjoying the journey,
but you've got to enjoy thejourney as well, right?
Because, yeah, I hear you.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, yeah, and I didn't see it that way, that it
was a sacrifice.
It was really extremely hardwork at times, but I thrived on
that pressure and I got better.
The more pressure there was,the better I competed, so that
that for me, that was better.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
And what was your biggest memories of of those
Olympics?
Because I can imagine it wouldjust be a blur now, because it's
just you're on the adrenalineand just the magnitude of of
these events which we, I'm sure,we all appreciate.
But now, what was some of thesort of the two or three big
memories you took away from fromthose olympics that you
attended?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
uh, interesting.
I did write this in my bookwhich I published last year.
Um, one of the one of theinteresting ones was, um, when
lymphochristi had gotdisqualified on these hundred
meters and I I just happened tobe in the village going in the
in the lift at the same time ashim and just that lift ride
going up was deadly silent andit was just me and him in the
(16:11):
lift, uh, and that was that wasreally.
That was a really uh, weird,weird moment, uh, but something
obviously that I remember theone of the one of the biggest,
the biggest parts that I tookaway from the competition was
not really having anyrecollection of competing, when
my mind and my body went intokind of a flow state, and so I
(16:36):
remember literally the curtainbeing pulled back and marching
out into the arena, and then Iremember kind of leaving the
arena at the end and everythingin the middle was very surreal
and not really remembering muchabout it I've really just seen
it on tv.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
It was almost like somebody else was was competing
and that and that wasn't me, um,and that that's a very weird
sensation to to have, uh, thatyou become very robotic and uh,
and and it takes over uh and ofcourse, you know my, my wife uh,
being able to come and see mecompete uh was was a highlight
(17:14):
as well to have family come andsee me one of the things I guess
it's a probably a cliche, butpossibly a truth in it as well
is, uh, the the essentially thecareer of an athlete is very,
very short, right, and you onlyget you know x amount of years
and um, you hear a lot now how,um, athletes and and footballers
(17:34):
and all those kind of uh, youknow different kind of athletes
are a better prepared now forwhen they leave or when they
finish their you know theirathletics career, whether that
be coaching or whatever.
So how did you find thattransition from you know athlete
to maybe coach, to maybeworking, sure?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I guess I finished in the late 90s the the education
part around that and the supportstructure around that was still
very much in its infancy, um,and it was almost just like look
after yourself.
So it was a really hardtransition to go from a
sportsman even to coach and thencoach to finish in, whereas the
(18:15):
support structures are muchmore in place now and especially
even after the COVID era aswell.
I think is even morehighlighted the mental health
aspects of post-career part.
I can't say I transitioned veryeasily.
It was pretty tough.
It doesn't mean to say that theorganizations and things
(18:35):
weren't supportive, it just wasin its infancy at that stage
when you say it was tough, whatwas the hardest bit?
never being able to reach thosehighs again internally, um, not,
not, not feeling fulfilled, andfeeling that the sense of loss
(18:56):
or and the loss of identity, umso is that a label that's put on
you that, lee, you're thegymnast or the sportsman, or is
that an internal part, thatthat's, I feel, who I am or was,
and that that sense of, I guess, loss or or losing where you
are?
Um, well, it was kind of kindof huge to to be honest and and
(19:19):
knowing your, your self-worthand what you can give back and
he mentioned the supportnetworks problem and I think it
was just the education justwasn't as prevalent as it is now
.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Absolutely.
How did you get through that?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Well, I finished sport and went straight into
coaching.
I went to New Zealand andstarted coaching and it was I
felt I was doing, I was doingfine, and I'd gotten to the
point where my wife had said,like Lee, I think you should.
I see the doctor and I was like, what are you talking about?
And she went, you know, you'redepressed.
(19:59):
And I was like, don't be stupid, you know, I'm doing well as a
coach and I'm doing, I'm going,I'm going fine.
And I went to the doctors and,um, they literally said you're,
you're, you're depressed.
Um, and it wasn't till, really,the doctor had said that you're
depressed, that I actually thentook on board that I probably
(20:21):
was that way and feeling verylow, uh, within within myself,
and that that within myself, andthat that took some, that
really took some time to toabsorb and and take on because,
um, probably a little bit oldschool, I would just you get on
with it, you, you carry on you,just you, just you, just keep
trucking along and keep going.
It doesn't mean say I was, itwas in a bad way, just it was.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
It just wasn't easy to again to have that sense of
fulfillment yeah, and I thinkwhen that first comes on me,
I've been there as well and asboth, as you get older, you kind
of you have these kind of upsand downs and for me it was a
case of it was all just a bitweird.
You saw, you know, I wasfeeling a bit.
It was flat, I think, as yousay, mine wasn't too.
Um, uh, you know, as as bad assome people have it, but you
(21:07):
just knew you was flat andobviously I had a couple of
times when I lost both myparents at a very early age for
them, and you just, yeah, Isuppose you just go, it's all
quite I think the word surrealbut you just don't, you can't
put your finger on it.
It's like, do you know what Imean?
It's one of those things.
You go, yeah, I know it's notquite why I'm not feeling as
(21:27):
great, and then you look back,you know, 10 years later, and
you go, that was just a momentin my life, you know, and it was
just part and parcel beinghuman.
But uh, yeah, I think at thetime, I think just the weirdness
of how I felt was kind of likethe, the, yeah, I can't really
describe that.
That makes it.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, it's just like nothing excited me, nothing got
me going, nothing, nothing feltlike that there was an urgency
to get up and do it.
Because that excited me.
There was just that sense of um, of adrenaline, purpose and
stuff.
Just yeah, yeah was a struggle.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Okay, and so you, you went into coaching in New
Zealand and then so how did yougo from from?
So you did mention how did yougo from New Zealand to Australia
.
Was or was that?
Was there a bit of Cirque duSoleil in between, or?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
So we went from New Zealand, um, so a friend of ours
, uh, was at Cirque du Soleiland they came to Auckland when
we were there and we're justhaving a few beers and having a
barbecue and stuff, and they'dasked me to put my resume
forward to Cirque and I said,why would I?
I've got the beach, I've gotthis beautiful lifestyle, why
would I do that?
And they basically convinced mejust to put it in.
(22:39):
And I put it in and I literallygot a call straight away going
do you want to come and be atCirque?
So they interviewed me straightaway and they told me look,
you've got these options of LA,saudi Arabia, tokyo, blah, blah,
blah.
But Tokyo was the first show inthe timeline, I guess.
So the family, we took thatdecision to go to Tokyo and the
(23:07):
show was called Zed and it wasin Disneyland, and we thought
that the kids were young.
If we're going to do this,let's do it while the kids were
young.
So we ended up in Tokyo forfour years and after the third
year there was the earthquakeand tsunami in 2011.
Quick and tsunami, uh, in 2011.
And uh, just, uh, that washorrendous.
(23:29):
Uh, family left, uh, the showkind of broke down, tourists
didn't come back.
Uh, we tried to get the showgoing again, but just the
tourists weren't there.
So the show ended up closingand I got offered the job as
head coach for the MichaelJackson one show in Las Vegas,
which I talked straight away.
And yeah then.
So we ended up in Las Vegas forfour years doing the creation
(23:51):
of the show and then being headcoach for four years, and you
know, kids are grown up by thattime.
Maxine, my wife, wanted to goback to work and she just wasn't
allowed to work on the visathat we we'd had.
So we had to make a familydecision of what's what's going
to come next, and Australiaseemed like the the right choice
(24:13):
.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
And how did that come about?
Because you don't just decideone day that you, you know well,
you do.
I suppose because you had aKiwi passport by that point, I'm
guessing.
Yeah, so so you.
So you do one day, like Isuppose I did.
You go right, we're going toaustralia and off you go, so,
but was there something drawingyou there?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
uh, no, just it was more.
Uh.
Wife wanted to go back to work,kids were getting a little bit
older.
What do we want to do as afamily?
Where do we want to live?
And the choices, I guess guess,was Australia, new, zealand,
the UK, stay, whatever.
And we decided it was Australia, that we would give it a go.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Okay, what were the reasons for Australia?
I think I know.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I think we'd been to New Zealand before the UK.
I didn't really have muchdesire to go back to the UK.
Salaries are good in Australia.
You know the weather up here onthe Gold Coast is pretty good.
We could live by the beach,have a beach lifestyle for the
kids.
You know the house backs onto agolf course.
It's green, it's lush, it'sextremely safe.
(25:19):
Schools are good, so it's areal lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Uh, decision, I guess yeah, and most of your career
has been sports or gym or shows.
Um, and I guess one question Ihave there is how do you
actually find that work?
Is it mostly about who you knowfor referrals?
Because, um, certainly inbrisbane and australia I find a
lot of it's like who you knowand there's a lot of referrals
(25:46):
and it's like, yeah, go andspeak to this guy or girl,
whatever and I would imagine inthe sports world, and then you
know in the uh, you know theentertainment world, it's a lot
of that.
Is that?
Is that a fair statement?
Speaker 2 (25:55):
yes, absolutely.
Um, I was the director ofdirector of coaching here on the
Gold Coast and then I took anoperations manager role up in in
Brisbane.
Um, I did.
I did a little bit of work withthe Brisbane Broncos, doing
some movement literacy work andsafety work for them, and also
the Gold Coast Suns AFL team.
I did a lot of injuryprevention work with them as
(26:18):
well.
I had to push quite hard to tryand get into those sports
because that's not a traditionalgymnastics is not a traditional
sport here.
But then COVID kind of happenedand everything went literally
literally downhill.
So I took a job in Singaporewhich was the head of gym in a
(26:41):
really high, prestigiousinternational school over there
and I stayed there basically fortwo years whilst COVID was
happening.
To be honest, since I'd comeback from COVID I didn't really
want to go back in the gym andbe coaching.
Body's a little bit sore andI'd like to change a little bit
direction.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
And just so happened that Cirque gave me a call again
to go on the Lionel Messi showand we just felt it was the
right time for the family okayso what and excuse me for for
reminding you this, but it lookslike you've just turned 50 and
um yes, I have, and so you knowit's probably a time when you
suppose you get to your halfwaypoint, or maybe slightly past
(27:21):
that, and you go.
You know what have I done?
What?
Have I done?
What have I achieved?
We all get there, right, youknow.
So we're getting a little bitolder, but you know, at the age
of 50, what would you say yoursuperhero skill or expertise is
now?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
um, oh, good question .
I would say listening first, uh, but makes makes a big
difference to, especially whenyou're, when you're working, and
that not one one size shoe fitsall, so that there's many ways,
many ways to skin a cat.
(27:56):
So if you're, if you're lookingat problem solving, listening
to everybody, everyone's got gotto obviously an opinion.
But to pull all thatinformation in and then decipher
what works, I think is reallyimportant, and as I've gotten
older I've become more patientwith that.
(28:17):
And being able to listen first,talk second.
Ah good, oh, that's anothergood question.
Um, I've been wanting to write abook for about 10 years.
Uh, just because every time wehave a conversation with people
and we're we're, we're outhaving a drink or something and
and people say, you know whereare you from?
And I kind of didn't want to gothrough the whole process of
(28:41):
gymnastics and life and movingcountries and Olympics and circ,
and you know it's a verylong-winded conversation
sometimes.
So I was in Singapore.
Obviously, lockdown hadhappened, I've got plenty of
time on my hands and I did apodcast and this guy was a
(29:03):
wonderful, wonderful guy.
I did a podcast with him and wefinished, it got released and I
was like you know what, I'mgoing to give him a call and see
if this is something that hewould be interested in helping
me with.
And literally I gave him a call.
I literally laid everything outon the table of just what I was
(29:24):
thinking, why I was thinking,why I was thinking it I've got
plenty of time on my hands andhe became my mentor and
literally we started the processof dictating and doing kind of
like what we're doing now,recording everything, and we
literally started mashingeverything together, started off
(29:45):
70, 80, 90 000 words, andliterally we started mashing
this together and and writingthe book.
And then you've also got tothink about who's this book for,
not necessarily just friendsand family, but but what's the
purpose of the book?
So, um, again, um, just, and itstarted that way and I'm really
(30:07):
grateful that we ended upwriting the book.
The book is for athletes andathletes transitioning into
coaches and again, a lot of thepurpose of the book was about
that loss of identity.
There's a huge section of that.
There's a big section in thereabout the flow state of when
(30:31):
you're competing and what thatmeans, means and and I ended up
having a sports psychologist puttheir kind of spin on it.
What's happening?
Happening chemically in thebrain, uh, versus me, what was
happening to me at that moment,and we we mash that together as
well to um so that people canunderstand what that flow state
actually means and feels like.
(30:52):
Obviously, the transition outof athlete to coaching, um, but
it was also about adversity andovercoming, you know, big
injuries Like I've had big ACLtears and things like that and
how to get over injuries and howto stay focused on your goals
and keep moving forwards.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Okay, what would you say your unique insights are?
Because obviously there's a lotof books out there, a lot of
athletes, a lot of people aregiving some very good insight
there, but what would you saymakes this unique?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
They're very different book to many kind of
autobiographies or biographies.
It's a real journey of how todeal with injuries and how to
deal with, I guess, depressionor loss of identity.
And I put a lot of likelearning tips, what I learned
(31:50):
along the way.
So it's not just writing a bookabout hey look, there's this
gymnast that did ABC.
It's about what did I learnalong the way and what can I
give back to people so that theycan use that.
And if I can help any athletesthat's transitioning into
coaching or post-career, then Iguess I've done my job.
So just yeah, I did a lot oflearning experiences and
(32:15):
reflection pieces through thatbook.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
And the work you've done.
I suppose in the last four orfive years.
You mentioned you've done somework with the Broncos obviously
the local rugby team in Brisbaneor one of them we've since
found out and obviously there'ssome other work with some rugby
teams et cetera.
But have you been known as theguy that helps with X or the guy
(32:39):
that helps with Y?
So have you kind of built up abit of a specialist area that
you get known as and what youget brought in to do?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
I guess, yes and no, like here, it's really hard to
break into those sports andobviously budgets and things you
know make it difficult forteams to break into those sports
and obviously budgets andthings you know make it
difficult for teams to to breakinto.
But, um, I had, I'd had aconversation with somebody over
in the uk and they said, do yourealize that, like, um, premier
(33:09):
league, uh, premier leaguecoaches in the uk have actually
bought your book?
Or um, you know, or maybe evenchampions, the Champions
Division, have bought your book?
And I was like I had no ideathat it had actually reached
some higher level coaching staffin in the UK and I'd spoke to a
(33:30):
sports like sports guru orsports doctor over in the UK and
he said, yeah, there's, there'sa lot of people that have
actually read your book.
Um, you are actually known, uh,so it hasn't, I guess,
translated directly into work,but there is a lot of people
that I guess have read the bookand, um, hopefully, they they've
(33:51):
really enjoyed it what's thefuture got in store for you?
mate At the moment.
It will be going to Colombia,Ecuador, Lima in Peru for this
first half of this year and intothe middle of the year we head
to Miami, which is the home ofLionel Messi, around about
(34:14):
October, November, December,time still to be confirmed.
Obviously, I'd love to meetMessi and for him to see the
show again and what we've donewith the show.
So I'm hoping that I head toMiami, you know, and try and put
(34:35):
into the show some of thethings that I've learned along
the way and make this show agreat show.
I'm not sure how long I staywith the show that could be one
year, two years, three years,We'll see.
But obviously I need to keeplearning.
If you stop learning, thenyou're kind of stagnant, right,
I guess.
So I want to keep learning.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
So I'm going to ask you a question in a slightly
different way.
Is there things that you you'vekind of learned along the way
where you you've kind ofbasically been able to package
up as your ip and I suppose, isthat is that what you're then
taking to the, these shows andthese, uh, the organizations
that you go and work with?
Speaker 2 (35:12):
well, it was definitely something that I did
with the broncos and the AFLteam.
There's a lot of coaching staffand strength and conditioning
coaches that are teachingplyometrics.
But what's the teaching of that?
When you've jumped and you'vebeen swiped or you've been
tackled midair or whatever like,how do you get yourself out of
(35:34):
trouble?
How do you know your depthperception to the floor and
where you are in space?
So what I was trying to do andhave that kind of, I guess,
niche market was you're up inthe air, you're taking that ball
or you're having that tackle.
What happens on the descent,you know.
So people don't realize a lot ofconcussions, yes, that's with
(35:57):
impact with player to player,but a lot of it is falling and
impact with the floor.
So how do you prevent that?
How do you prevent that whenyou stick your arm out, that you
you're not breaking an arm ordoing an AC joint in the
shoulder?
How do you fall properly?
So I did a lot of fallprotection, spatial awareness
work with the teams.
(36:17):
But obviously that'straditional strength and
conditioning.
But there's also that, theother realm of where are you in
that 360 space, uh, when you'reup up in the air and and how to
how to be like a cat and getyourself out of trouble.
Uh, essentially, uh, and thatwas something that, um, I think
the teams really enjoyed, but italso reduces injuries, right?
Speaker 1 (36:41):
big year, 2032, for Brisbane, as we, you know, we're
both in that region.
What do you think that means toQueensland and what?
What?
Some of the things I guessyou're looking at for from from
a yeah, from a slightly uniqueperspective, obviously, having
been at Olympics and been anathlete, you know.
So you do you look at that fora different lens.
Are you looking at, um, youknow the progress and all of the
(37:04):
you know the political sort ofunranglings that are happening,
you know.
So what?
What's your yeah, what's yourthoughts on 2032 at the moment?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I'm super excited that brisbane's gonna have the
olympics.
So, you know, my son is 14years old about eight years he's
going to be prime age tocompete.
He plays baseball forQueensland at the moment but
hopefully baseball is going tobe in the 2032 Olympics.
So to have Olympics on your ownsoil, especially being down we
(37:32):
live in this area but it willalso generate a lot of jobs.
It will generate infrastructure, sporting infrastructure.
You know financial resourcesget pulled into any Olympic
Games.
So I'm excited for this younggeneration to have something
that's on home soil and todevelop sport, hopefully to have
(37:58):
that infrastructure built andwe can.
We can, you know, generate thisnext generation of of athletes
that are now 10, 11, 12, up to14, 15, 16 years old to come
through and have some realstrength and depth with it
within the country, so that thatpart's really exciting.
Also, having stadiums built,having, you know, things like
(38:22):
that for and chances for thesekids to uh, to experience that
will be awesome any strongopinions on the olympic stadium
and what's going on at wool andgabba, whether they they do or
they don't build it whether Ihave an opinion or not, they'll
still do what they want to do.
To be honest, you know like,yeah, the Gabba would be nice.
(38:46):
To be honest, there's biggerparties involved around those
parts and you've got to look atthe big picture.
To be honest, if you look atall of the Olympics that have
happened over the last 20, 30,40 years, there's always been
hey, they're not going to makeit on time, oh, we're over
budget, or we're going to dothis, or we're struggling with
(39:08):
that, or should we even have it.
There's always these storiesand in the end, you always get
there with things and you knowget there with with things and
you know time moves on and andthen you focus on what's the
real part, which is these kidscompeting and and trying to um,
hopefully trying to make medalsand finals and stuff, and all
(39:29):
that stuff then will fade intothe background yeah, I, I know
some of the people that were, um, at the early stages as part of
the the uh organizing committeeand, uh, some of the people
that were at the early stages aspart of the organising
committee and some of theconversations I've had with
those guys and girls have beeninteresting.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
But one thing that I mentioned was, as you will
probably know, growing up inLondon when there were certain
parts of London that wereabsolutely ripe for regeneration
.
So, being a West Ham fan, eastLondon, london and stratford and
um and and what have you youknow they're seeing the
difference in in the area.
So I went back for mygranddad's funeral in in may
(40:05):
last year and caught a game Ithink it was my.
I remember a second game at thenew stadium and we we just
walked around.
You know hackney wick and youknow parts of stratford that you
just would never walked around.
We weren't safe, there wasnothing there.
You know Hackney Wick and youknow parts of Stratford that you
just would never have walkedaround.
We weren't safe, there wasnothing there.
You know, when we was a kid andthey talk about regeneration and
they talk about, you know,impact and legacy, et cetera,
(40:29):
and like, for me that was itthere, right, you know.
All of a sudden, there's nowthis whole new city, kind of the
whole new.
Yeah, the regeneration.
Regeneration was just youcouldn't even uh, you couldn't
even describe it how differentit was.
It was just.
It was just like where are we?
It's like, yeah, that's wherethere used to be a boot sale and
that's used to be the dog trackwas there, and it's like no,
that can't.
But I guess that and that's thefor me, that it's.
(40:51):
I don't think that you'reyou'll see the real impact until
maybe 10, 15 years afterolympic sometimes.
And yeah, probably the same insydney as well.
You know they have had the samething.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
But yeah, that's uh, and that was my, my, my take on
it, but I don't know if you haveany any strong opinions on that
yeah, uh like obviously havinga legacy afterwards, uh, but
again, that's that's part ofthat, what I was saying before
with those kids then havingdirection and facilities and
infrastructure and things.
That's not just for the kidsthat were adults now will be
(41:24):
competing at the games, but thatthen lasts for generations
afterwards.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
So I'm excited for the future, I'm excited for 2032
, but also you know what thatgives for kids afterwards and
hopefully inspires a bunch ofkids to become healthy and and
actually take up sports yeah, doyou think the the legacy that
you know seb cove talked aboutin london so much and was
(41:53):
striving for in terms of, youknow, having the athletic
stadium and we won't go intothat, but you know there was
there was still infrastructurebuilt to support the olympics do
you think that legacy happenedand you think that you know the
impact was there that maybesebco talked about in england?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
um, well, my, my, my generation of gymnasts, we were
the first ones to have receivedthe lottery funding.
Uh, so we were that first realgeneration and obviously we'd
made some good results.
But also, atlanta wasn't agreat result for many, many
sports.
I feel that having the and Idon't want to talk hard term,
(42:31):
but having that lottery fundingplus infrastructure, plus
direction for the kids and forsporting order organizations to
to develop, I think can only bea good thing.
It makes us healthier as asociety to for the kids to have
focus and to have something thatthey can actually go and do.
(42:55):
I I don't know the full impactI've been away from the UK for
many, many years but I hope thatthe thought process behind it
all has played out and I thinkwe are doing well as a nation,
as the UK, in sport.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, I was watching something the other day I can't
remember what it was and it wasquite telling.
And you mentioned, obviouslyfrom your era, that Great
Britain didn't win a lot ofmedals at the time in comparison
to what it does now, and sowhen the table was produced,
great Britain was probablyeighth or ninth.
(43:36):
Oh, look, we've done reallywell.
You know, and that's ultimately.
You know, what most people lookat is the medal hall right.
And then for some reason,something happened around, but
maybe, maybe it was the Olympics, maybe it was the, you know.
It was said, look, we need tochange something here, and I
suppose have you got anyinsights into what that was that
(43:58):
changed?
Because now you know, GB, teamGB is, like you know, at the top
virtually a lot of the timeright.
So what changed?
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I'm not in that inner circle, it's just from what I
understand that the results in96 were pretty dire as far as a
nation and I think there justhad to be a another rethink um
around how, how we're going todo this, Hmm.
So, like I said, I I can't talkout to her and I don't know
that the background behind it.
(44:25):
I I just understood it as thatwe, we hadn't done a great job,
uh, nationally in the 96.
Um, then the lotteryission orfunding came in and there was a
real focus on then trying todevelop athletes and I guess
that's then when really it cameinto play of athlete wellbeing
started.
(44:46):
Athlete education, coacheducation, infrastructure,
facilities, all of that startedto come up and I guess over the
time, learning lessons along theway through the early 2000s,
obviously retweaking, refiningwhat's been learned and
(45:11):
obviously trying to learn from,I guess, mistakes of the past or
whatever.
But I'm not an expert in thatparticular field other than I
know something must be workingbecause we're starting to do
extremely well as a country.
I guess also logistics being inEurope as well.
There's a lot of competitionwithin Europe, so it does make
(45:31):
it easier compared to, let's say, a southern hemisphere where
travel.
If you're going to travel toEurope, you might as well stay
there for three, four, fivemonths, because you need to get
your money's worth of uh okay so.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
So back to your, your , your current day job, and you
mentioned that Cirque du Soleiland and the Lionel Messi uh show
what would be Cirque du Soleil,such a global brand and well
known all around the world.
What were some of the notesnotes for observations that you
had when you started workingwith with that organization?
Speaker 2 (46:03):
well, see, I came from sport, which were which was
very, very disciplined andself-driven.
When you're at Cirque, it'smuch, much more of a
collaboration of people and notnot not one idea fits all.
So there's a lot of, I guess,mistakes along the way and
you've got to learn a lot, butyou've also got to think very,
(46:26):
very quick on your feet.
If something's not working, howdo we get to an end result?
Because there's there's adeadline that you know the show
needs to be produced, there's anopening night and we we have to
get to that point, and so eachperson is relying on somebody
else to do their job and, to behonest, I, I really love that,
that method of that everyone isaccountable for their area was
(46:50):
it um, noticeably different fromthe you know the, the athletics
, um, and from the you know from, from being an athlete?
Speaker 1 (47:00):
because obviously you're going from from what is
competitive and you know a sportthrough to what science is
quite commercial.
So how did you transition fromthat?
Speaker 2 (47:11):
the only words I use is like it's not a sprint, it's
a marathon.
Uh, we, we have so in aresident show division which is
basically a static show, we have476 shows per year.
So you don't have to peak,you've got to be able to spread
that out over that many showsper per year and which, which is
important for longevity of anathlete and longevity of the
(47:32):
show.
So it's a real balancing act oftrying to keep those artists,
athletes, whatever, in the game.
I guess, for that many showsper year.
And you rely heavily on, youknow, strength and conditioning,
rehabilitation, rest, yourphysiotherapy team, the artistic
(47:53):
team.
Again, we've all got to do ourjob to make sure that the loads
of work are reasonable andacceptable for everybody and to
make sure that we can put out ashow every single day.
We've also got to have backupplans and who's going to do
those and they also have to betrained, maintained and make
sure that, again, thateveryone's healthy to be able to
(48:13):
perform.
So it's quite different in inthat in sports you, you've got a
peak and you have yourcompetition.
Then you have a downside, we,this is a much more longer game,
I guess yeah, not like abroadway show where you're
probably impact injuries areslightly less it's, it's it is.
It is hard, don't get me wrong,but we again, it's my job as a
(48:35):
coach to try and balance thoseworkloads what do you think your
experience has taught you?
Speaker 1 (48:40):
If you could sum it up in three words, what would
those three words be?
Speaker 2 (48:46):
As an athlete or with… as a coach.
As a coach, patience,collaboration and listening, I
guess, is some of the mostimportant parts, because you've
got to be able to take on what'sbeen put in front of you.
(49:07):
You might have a plan for atraining that day and your job
is you walk in the room and youhave to read a room straight
away and if those athletes aredown today, your plan might go
out and you've got.
You've got to be adaptable.
So I guess another word isadaptable.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
So that's another great episode, done and dusted,
as always.
I'd love to hear from you ifyou know anyone that's got a
really good story to tell abouthow they are or not living a
productive life.
If you want to get in touchwith me, please do so by my
website, wwwliestephensco.
That's wwwliestephensco.
You can email me, lee atleastephensco, or get in touch
(49:48):
on LinkedIn, which is where Ialso hang out In the meantime.
Have a good week, thank you.
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