Marketing a Hospitality Business with Scott Wilson

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Time and Motion podcast with me, your
host, lee Stevens.
For over 25 years, I've workedwith businesses all over the
world to improve the technologyand the people within them.
In this podcast, I share someof my experiences and I chat to
guests who generously sharetheir stories of how to or, in
some cases, how not to live aproductive life.
I hope you enjoy the show.

(00:28):
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Scott Wilson, good morning.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Lee.
Hey go mate, how are you?
Yeah, really good man, reallygood.
It's great to be here, lookingforward to this.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
How you doing on this fine class church morning Mate.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
I just got back from Miami where it was I don't know
what degrees, but this, yeah,it's typical Christchurch right,
a bit of a culture shock comingfrom Miami.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, nice.
So digital influence yeah,before we get into that, just
tell us a bit about digitalinfluence what they do.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, so we essentially are a media company.
We buy a lot of media forbusinesses, but we also create a
lot of content, so a lot ofvideo content.
We run a lot of ads, but moreand more, I guess, we're getting
into that short form videospace.
That's where we really excel.
And then understanding, hey,what makes people, you know, buy
online and engage with people.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
So Cool, before we get into that, let's just go
back.
So where did you go up?
What was early life like foryou?

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, early life for me, so I guess I'm a typical
Kiwi kid.
I was really fortunate we had apark across the road from us so
we go, you know, straight outfrom dinner or whatever,
straight across the road to thepark and I just used to play
cricket, cricket and play soccerfootball.
That was my childhood.
I just love playing sport, Ilove being outside and grew up

(02:49):
in a sporting family.
My dad played cricket and, yeah, that was me.
I didn't really like school toomuch.
I went there to eat my lunchand meet friends, so that was
probably about it.
Really, yeah, uni, no, I didn'tget to uni.
I guess I was going for me.

(03:10):
I got to sixth form and, yeah,I really just didn't see the
vision of going to university.
I wanted to actually travel.
I don't know why, but I justalways wanted to travel.
So, yeah, didn't go touniversity, did hospitality
management though it was a.
I did two years of a four yearprogram and kind of decided that

(03:33):
I liked the other side of thebar versus the one side of the
bar and so, yeah, so, and alsoknew, saw in hospitality that
the big chains owned the hotelsand stuff and unless you were
going to own a hotel, youweren't really going to get
anywhere.
So it was quite a structuredmanagement system and I didn't
really like that either.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
What did that teach?

Speaker 2 (03:52):
you those two years.
I guess you learned a lot about, and I think I learned this
from my nana.
Actually she was very social,so my mum and my dad mum was
bought up on a farm, dad wasbought up, his mum was very
social so they'd have a leavens.
So actually you have the salesbell here in the office as my

(04:12):
nana used to ring this bell whenshe wanted to drink and kids
used to give her a drink and asthe day went on we used to give
her two finger pours, threefinger pours, four finger pours.
But she taught me how to bereally social and how to
interact with people and how toengage with people and I think
that was a natural progression.
Going into hospitality, I'mnaturally, I guess I'm curious

(04:34):
and will ask people questionsand engage with them.
So I think that's one thinghospitality taught me is to not
be afraid of talking to peopleand talking to strangers, which
I think is a really good skill.
So that's probably the biggestthing hospitality taught me.
Okay other early jobs.
Look, did the paper run?
Did the milk run?
Did collecting the money?
That was an interesting job.

(04:54):
So I'd go and deliver the paperto the people and then you'd go
back round and collect themoney.
So that was actually quiteconfronting because sometimes
you knock on the doors and askpeople for money and sometimes
people didn't have the money andyou'd have to go hey, I've been
delivering the paper here, youknow.
So that was an interesting one.
The milk run I really enjoyedit.
That's a kind of a Kiwi back inthe day, essential kind of job

(05:18):
as a kid, really good forfitness because you were running
all the time.
One of the guys I worked forwas quite innovative.
We used to push trolleys andall of a sudden he designed a
truck where you could stand onthe side and run off from the
side.
So it was a bit dangerous.
You wouldn't get away with itthese days.
But I guess that work ethicgrew up on my uncles and aunties
and grandad's head farms, so Iwas always working.

(05:40):
I'd always loved going to thefarm and working.
I loved doing the potatoes,peas and stuff getting in there.
Yeah, it's just.
I guess that's a real fortunateto have that I guess, if I got
that work ethic today, I don'tmind.
I like working.
It's kind of good to be part of, you know, rolling your sleeves
up and getting stuff done.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Okay, so you had a few of the standard early jobs.
What was your first full timejob?

Speaker 2 (06:04):
First full time job probably.
I ended up working atPlacemakers, which is a big
industry here.
I was in that transition ofgoing out of hospitality and
wanting to go overseas, so Iended up working and it was
inwards goods and hospitality.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
So for the internationalists, just explain
who Placemakers are.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yeah, so Placemakers are a big building supply
company, so they supply thetimber, they supply bathroom
materials, they supply all thepower tools and stuff like that,
so really big company.
What I loved about that company, though, is with Fletcher's,
which is a big company in NewZealand.
It was a 50-50 partnership withtwo entrepreneurs, member Bob
Sanford and his business partner, and they were great guys.

(06:45):
They were really good people,people, people, and it didn't
matter whether you worked atInwards Goods, the Outdoor
Center, or you were one of theirreps.
They treated you the same, andI really saw that.
You could see, and that's why Ilike you talk about leadership.
No doubt in here, I really likepeople that lead from the front
and were out there talking topeople, talking to the talking
to, and so that was my firstfull time job.

(07:05):
It was a bit of a.
It was a bit of a like, a bitof a no brainer job, like.
It was a bit boring, but we hada lot of fun and I was only 20
at the time, so it didn't reallymatter.
Yeah, okay, so Placemakers, andthen you said you travelled yeah
, travelled overseas.
So went over, travelledoverseas with two of my best
mates.
We travelled the world.
As soon as we got over there wesplit up, met eight girls from

(07:30):
Cambridge, three other guys fromthe Waikato, flattered with
them and just had a ball forprobably three and a half years.
Did a whole row of jobs butlearnt a lot at the same time.
End up being a painter, whichwas a crazy, crazy job, but
learnt a lot and really, reallyenjoyed my time travelling
overseas.
As a Kiwi, you don't know theworld till you go and see the

(07:54):
world.
Right, we live so far away fromwhere you grew up so we have to
go over there and see the world.
So that was a great part of mylife.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, I think it's that Kiwi, oe and that thing
where a lot of people go andtravel overseas.
But I've talked about thisbefore but it's quite telling.
You can actually tell thepeople that have done that,
because they come back with adifferent mindset and a
different view on what big isand….

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, totally yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
I can't quite put a finger on it, but it's
definitely almost like you'redoing a degree in kind of like
the world, because you can tell,like the Kiwis I speak to, that
haven't done that, OE you knowthey've got that little kind of
edge missing.
Maybe I don't know.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, well, look, the cool part about it is you meet
people from all around the world, right?
So you look, I was fortunateenough to be in some situations
where I met the Chairman ofHills Court Stadium.
I met a guy actually whochanged my life, sonny.
He owned a building company andhe gave me a chance with a
friend of mine and we made him alot of money on his building
sites.
And I remember one day he saidboys, we're going to go to

(08:54):
Mallorca, to my house in Spain,and look, I've got a pool and
stuff, but it's a wee bit boring.
We should go to the bookstore.
And I was like, eh, great,because I don't really read
books, right.
And I vividly remember being inthis bookshop in the Kilburn
Road and he said to me Scott,what's going on, what's wrong?
I said, well, I don't read.

(09:15):
He goes, why don't you read?
And I said I hate reading atschool.
And he's just said something tome and changed my life.
He said, scott, you're not atschool, now you can read what
you want to read.
And I was like, wow, that isamazing, like I can read what I
want to read.
And I remember getting thisbook and it was like changed my
life.
Changed my life just like that,because I started reading and
yeah, so that was a big thingfor me back in the day.

(09:36):
So, yeah, definitely came backwith More Worldly.
Yeah, some skills are probablynot that useful, but it was good
fun.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
So you had that job, and what was next after that?

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, I came.
I definitely like I lovetravelling.
I ended up in Sydney doing afew jobs and then the money run
out and I realised it was timeto come home.
Wasn't ready to come home, buttime to come home.
So I came home.
At the time I was quite good atcricket, so there was an
opportunity to play a bit ofcricket, but at the same time I

(10:11):
needed a job.
So I ended up applying for ajob at a place called Bond and
Bond, which is kind of like anappliance store selling TVs,
that sort of stuff really, and Iinterviewed for the job and I
learnt a really good lesson andI didn't know it at the time,
but it wasn't till two weekslater I interviewed for the job
and I kind of had this cricketthing going on, so I wasn't

(10:31):
really that keen and it musthave come across in the
interview, because the guy saidto me at the end he goes.
He rung me off, he said, oh,scott, you didn't get the job.
And I was like, oh, okay, cool,and then he didn't say anything
else.
Two weeks later he rang me backand he said are you still
looking for a job?
And I was like, yeah, he goescool, come and see me.
I remember his name, brandon,and he just sat me down and he
said, scott, the reason youdidn't get the job is you came

(10:51):
across like you didn't want itand I was like, well, that's
honest, because I've probablyfelt like I didn't really want
it either, right, yeah, you knowyou know, but it was one of the
best jobs I've ever had andlike if I had to do something
again tomorrow, I'd go backthere because it taught me a lot
of stuff about humans,connecting with humans, showing
them how they can afford stuff,how they can buy stuff, and the

(11:13):
technology was cool.
Computers first came out then,so it was really.
It was really good, but it wasa great lesson to learn and the
lesson for me was hey, if youwant something, you go get it,
don't let anyone hold you back.
If you want it, you've got tobe focused on it and go get it,
because people can tell if youdon't right, and that was a big
thing for me.
So you work in there, met a lotof cool people, but the

(11:36):
greatest thing was just thetechnology at the time like cell
phones were new.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Showing your age now.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Cell phones were new.
We had computers first startingto come in and people were
coming in wanting to buy thesecomputers because they'd heard
about these computers and theywanted to get them for their
kids and stuff and like I thinkat this time there were like it
was like 128 meg, you know, andlike more cameras than that now,
like right, but that was justwas so new back in the day.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
So that's joined the gaps, joined the dots then.
So you, obviously you're doingthat and then through to digital
influence.
So what were the kind of keymilestones or key steps from
there to where you are today?

Speaker 2 (12:14):
I left Bono and Bono because I thought I could sell
Ice Tees, kimo.
Seriously, I got them.
I was always in the top one on3 in New Zealand.
And then this job come up and Ididn't know it at the time but
it was for selling plastictoothpicks and I always cracked
myself up and I keep them todayjust to remind me that you never
get a hit yourself right.
But I got this job and becauseI always wanted to come and be

(12:38):
like a rep, get out on the roadand I saw this as the
opportunity.
And I remember going andmeeting the guy and because I
answered this ad, this ad wasreally well written and I was
like this sounds like a greatjob.
And it was around the time ofthe America's Cup and it kind of
got caught up in that becausewe were doing corporate hosting
and all this sort of stuff andthought I'd kind of, but plastic
toothpicks.
And I learnt another really goodlesson, and this one I teach

(13:02):
people all the time in myseminars is people buy what they
want, not what you think theyneed.
And I remember going becauseupon the Bono it was real easy,
people would come in the doorbut for selling these plastic
toothpicks back in the day Idon't know if you remember
matchboxes and you couldadvertise on the front of
matches.
You know people like thematches, like the cigarette, you
could actually advertise on thecover.
So this was the same sort ofplay.

(13:22):
You could advertise on thefront cover of these matches and
there was four plastictoothpicks inside and so it was
an advertising play.
And he said, look, go aroundall the bars and pitch them this
sort of stuff, right.
So I went round to the firstbar and I remember it was a bar
in Ubrighton, and I must havedriven round the round about I
don't know about 30 times and Iwas just sweating because I had
to go on Colcol.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
And that was the first time I ever Colcol.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
And I was just, I was bricking it and he, I get onto
this bar and I was like it wasabout 1130, so the owner was
there and I said, oh, I've gotsomething to show you.
You know, blah, blah, blah,blah and you know a plastic
toothpicks.
And he had a look at it and Isaid, oh, it's an advertising
play.
And I was like he walks away andhe starts pouring a beer and I

(14:07):
was like you, beauty, we'regonna have a beer.
It's 1130.
He's obviously interested inthis.
This is a no brainer for him,right.
And then on the way back I sawhim grab a wooden toothpick and
he goes to me see this sunny.
And he held up the beer.
People want this.
See this sunny.
And he held up the woodentoothpick.
People need this.
Never forget, people buy whatthey swore at me, what they want

(14:29):
, and not what they need.
Get out and next minute I'mgonna ask the outside the door.
But it was a big lesson.
It was like, yeah, I was tryingto pitch something that I
thought people needed and peopleweren't buying what they need.
You know they're buying whatthey want, and so that was for
me, straight out the door wewere.
I left that within two days andthen started working for a big

(14:51):
corporate here in New ZealandNGC, one of the biggest
corporates in there, started atthe bottom doing fires, selling
gas fires, built way up to beingthe regional manager looking
after I think it was about 20regional for the 45kg network
and built up a whole bunch ofresellers throughout New Zealand

(15:11):
.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
So once again, this is a Kiwi thing, right?
So, we don't get gas dug inholes in the ground.
In New Zealand we actually getour gas in big cylinders which
are like industrial sized theones that in the UK and in
America you probably have usedfor your barbecue.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
So we actually have to get those delivered once
every month for the next weeksOnce every month and it was an
interesting time because I metentrepreneurs all around New
Zealand and actually that's when, once again, two guys changed
my direction.
It was real interesting becausethese guys were these guys were
all putting money into a pool,right, and I started to learn
that the corporate way ofmarketing versus the business

(15:46):
small business or medium sizedbusiness way of marketing was
totally different.
Corporates would spend moneylike we'd spend 250 grand on a
campaign and a weekend measurenone of it and then these guys
were spending, but paying to putmoney into that, and they were
asking hey, how's our campaignsperforming?
And I'd go and ask marketingand marketing until we're gonna
rack off.
You know the corporatemarketing machine and we're

(16:06):
talking big company here, right?
And I realized that these guyshad it right.
Yeah, these resellers had itright.
One of them one of the two ofthe guys had 10 garages.
They were extremely successfulpeople.
So I started asking them hey,what are you doing differently?
And they started to share somestuff with me.
They were testing, measuringtheir marketing.
They were running two ads, youknow, and they would say for

(16:27):
warrant of fitness.
They were running two ads, theywere testing different offers
all of the time and they hadbusiness flowing in from their
advertising and it really mademe realize that there was
another way of doing things.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah, and it's interesting because obviously,
shifting from services toproduct, like I've done in the
last nine months, or six to ninemonths, it's a completely
different mindset in terms ofhow you market and validation.
So one of the best books I'veread recently is called the Mum
Test I don't know if you heardabout that and essentially that
talks about not even talkingabout product, just actually

(16:59):
finding out what the problemsare of your potential audience.
So validation.
So it's not like you're doinglots of validation in those
early years.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, definitely because, like naturally curious
probably like yourself, right,naturally curious about okay,
because I wasn't gonna beprepared to say, just because
the corporate marketing teamsaid, you can't do this, I'm not
gonna take, I can see thatthings are different in this
world, so I'd ask questions.
I then figured out that theywere outsourcing to an agency,
the corporate team.
But it was really cool to meetthose kind of people and I

(17:28):
really I guess that was for mekind of once you start meeting
business owners, you start tolearn from them, and I was just
soaking it up and learning fromthem, learning from them, and I
started to learn about directresponse, copywriting Failed
English at school but it didn'tmatter Like I could write a
sales letter and I couldactually generate sales from it.
So that really led a fire underme and I started to travel

(17:51):
overseas 2005, went to the WorldInternet Summit, which was a
great internet marketing seminar.
There was hardly any Kiwisthere, there was all Australians
, and I learned a lot from goingand just being a student again
and that's.
I guess you know that I, likeyou know, like reading as well,
right, I love reading, I lovelearning stuff and then

(18:14):
implementing.
So that was a really cool part.
And then I've just realized,hey, I set myself a goal to
basically replace my income andI did it.
And I was down on Wanaka on ajob and I remember being down on
Wanaka and I remember goingthis place is really pissing me

(18:34):
off.
Wanaka, wanaka was, you know,and as a kid I went there when I
was 17 and loved the place.
But I was down there on a joband it was starting to grate me.
I'd get up at four on a Monday,drive down there, be there all
week and there was a lot offriction happening in this job
and I just realized it wasn'tWanaka, it was the job.
So I drew a line in the sandactually, and I know where it is

(18:56):
down on Wanaka, and I steppedover it and I called my boss and
I told him I quit and we becomeactually good mates over the
years and he said, no, man, youcan't, you can't.
I said, mate, I've made up mymind, I'm leaving, he goes.
No, no, no, no, you don'tunderstand, I'm leaving in two
weeks and he hadn't told anyoneyet.
So he had to exchange a stay abit longer.
But yeah, so that was thecorporate world done and dusted

(19:19):
when it started my own business.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
So 2005,?
What was that?
What was that?
What coming up to 18 years, isit?
But 18 years ago the worldwould look a little bit
different than it does today.
So first, in products, we'retalking about your first 100
customers, but in services,first 10 customers.
So how did you go about gettingthose?

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, once again I guess really good at networking,
met a couple of people.
There was a property boom goingat the time so I had a direct
response copywriting businessand I met a couple of people in
that property investment area.
I got really good at helpingthem sell rooms and filling
seminar rooms.
So that for me that snowboard alot.

(20:00):
I got a lot of business out ofthat.
Out of that I got anopportunity to go and speak at
an event in Melbourne.
I don't know why they asked me,but I just say yes.
When anyone asks me I'll justsay yeah, let's do it.
Yes, definitely yeah.
And I remember out of that a guycome up to me and said, hey, do
you want to be part of thisbook?
And I was like, yeah, tell me abit more about it.

(20:21):
And he was putting a booktogether.
He actually put like 16 bookstogether of all, but this one
was Marketing Secrets Exposed.
I wrote a chapter in it.
It was the only Kiwi in it,with 16 other authors from
Australia.
And then that kind of snowboardonce I got in that book I used
it as credibility, startedrunning events and then, as we

(20:42):
started running events, Irealized that there was a real
opportunity with the internet.
So we started in another companywith Andreas Becker.
We started on page one media,which was our SEO and Google Ads
business, and we just grew thatwe had a great guarantee you
didn't pay us till we got you onpage one.
So everyone else was promisingrankings but we just said, hey,

(21:04):
you don't pay us until we getyou there.
And that just really, really,really grew and that was kind of
when the internet was startingto really take off.
So, yeah, that's, I guess,where that all came to.
So that was the journey fromthen.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
So, if we fast forward, I'll put it on your 2x
or 3x from there to now.
What's been some of the bigtrends?
Obviously Google and organicsearch, which is essentially
when you create your own copyand your own content through to
pay, which, if you now do aGoogle search, 80% of the real
estate is sponsored.
So obviously a few changesthere.

(21:39):
But when you look back andreflect on those last 18 years
in terms of what those bigtrends have been, what would you
say?

Speaker 2 (21:46):
they've been Definitely like social media,
massive right.
Like you saw, 2007, I think, thefirst iPhone come out and I
remember doing seminars aboutand asking people who had a
smartphone and no one would puttheir hand up and then all of a
sudden, 2, 8, 2, 9, people startputting their hand up and the
iPhone really changed the game.
And I think that's when thingsstarted to change.

(22:08):
People started to have media intheir pocket and you could
start to run ads reallyeffectively, because a lot of
the times, like media,especially for the medium to
small business, they were quiterestricted on how they could
advertise.
Big companies had TV, radio,magazines, small players really

(22:29):
had the yellow pages and so theywere quite limited right.
So once that started comingalong and it really opened up
the opportunities for moreGoogle ads and that was a big
thing as well Google ads wasquite a powerful way of
advertising.
It was a really trackable wayof advertising.
So, yes, things like that weremajor influences.
And then, like now, just videocontent is really the

(22:54):
opportunity for a lot of peopleto be media.
It's never been.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, it's interesting how you learn your
craft and, I suppose, learntyour wares, doing demand
generation, so, like you say, interms of that long form content
.
And so I was reading a book atthe moment.
It's called Sell Like Crazy,which you've actually got there
right, and he talks about thisNew Zealand, no, not New Zealand
.
New York Herald 1912, somethingon those lines.

(23:20):
And it was a guy, it wasbasically long form content for
a bank but it was actuallyeducational content and
apparently they got like 5,000responses from this and the
marketing guy that time thoughtit was crazy, but they were
saying how long form contenthasn't really changed.
And so it's interesting how youprobably you're probably quite
passionate about that subject.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, definitely, like.
I know that guy.
He has pulled apart Frank Kern,ryan Dice, all the guys and so
Ogilvy, right, so he was part ofthat whole that long form
content.
I think you know the consumer'svery, very smart these days,
right, like, and I look I takeyou back to Bond and Bond right?

(24:00):
So we were selling TVs and allthat sort of VCRs and stuff,
DVDs coming in.
We were a head of the consumerbecause we would read the manual
and we'd talk one-on-one with arep, so we knew the selling
points.
You know today you can walk inthere knowing more information
than they do, right, and that'sthe power of the internet and

(24:23):
stuff.
Like today People can educatethemselves a lot faster.
So I think as a business, youhave to be prepared to move your
education and I say influencereducation, we're actually seeing
it now say influence throughinsights.
You have to be prepared to givestuff away in order to grow
that mind share with people, andI think the more, the more you
can do that, the better it is.

(24:43):
And it's quite confronting fora lot of business owners.
They don't actually want togive away stuff, but once they
do, once they realize it, thegame does change for them, right
?

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Because in reality, most people won't do it
themselves anyway, right?
So who are they going to go tothe person that's been used for?

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So, yeah, definitely, long formcontent still has a place.
Like I always say, you know,like people you're not the
consumer, right, like you don'tbuy from you.
So just let the marketplacetell you.
If the marketplace wants toread a long letter, give them a
long letter.
If they want to read a shortparagraph, give them a short
paragraph, like that's you know?

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Okay, so Scott, 2023, july, coming into August, is
there a kind of atypical set ofclients that you look after?
Is you know what's the commondenominators in terms of the
people that you help?

Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, the people that we help.
It's really interesting, Likewe've got a couple of niches
that we work in.
Obviously we're good inhospitality.
We actually just won an awardfor Kaiser Brugart and the best
market at establishment in NewZealand.
They also won Best Bar, BestOverall and Emerging Leader.
But really we're up against big, big competition with big
budgets there.
So we go well in hospitality.

(25:49):
We've got a number ofhospitality.
We also go well in short formvideo content.
So anywhere with their shortform video content, we're
actually just about to bring outa couple of new products for
that because we really see themarket and the opportunity for
that.
So we're doing a lot in thereal estate industry for that.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
So once again for anyways, kind of listen to us.
It doesn't know what short formis.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, short form video content.
So the likes of your Instagramreels or your Facebook reels or
your TikTok videos, so videosthat interrupt you on Facebook.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
30 seconds or less 30 seconds or less.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Some can be a wee bit longer, but educational a lot
of insight.
So we actually have a frameworkfor how we teach that.
We have a one theme, three coremessages and a 10 wheel.
It's a great way to pullcontent out of people and then
getting them used to creatingvideo content, actually making
them relaxed and doing somewhizzy stuff in the back end
with the editing and stuff.
So that really is a growth areafor us.

(26:39):
And then, like, we've got anumber of clients and we've kind
of looked at our best clientsover the years.
Our best clients just have thebest mindsets.
Any.
You can really tell if abusiness owner's got the chops.
It's their mindset.
You can ask them a fewquestions and you can kind of
tell whether they have it or not.
Especially and I'm talking froma sales and marketing to speak,
because sales and marketing ishard Like sales and marketing is

(26:59):
extremely, extremely hard.
You have to be prepared to waitand you know it doesn't happen
overnight.
You'd like it to happenovernight, yeah, but it's hard
and you have to stay in thequeue.
You know and we've dealt withclients now for some of them you
know, eight, nine years andtaking them and growing their
markets here, and it's alwaysinteresting.
People will come to me and Iwant that guy's result.

(27:20):
Cool, cool, you're going tostay around for seven years.
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
One thing I thought was really interesting as well
is, like you know, when we'vekind of done some work together,
is that the reality is you'vegot, as a business owner, you've
got to be prepared to investyour time as well, because I
think a lot of people just think, no, I'm paying the agency,
done a dusting, you go off andsell me some stuff right, and
without actually realizingyou've got to put the effort in
as well.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Especially, you know, especially from and your role
might just be making sure yourteam buys in, you know, and that
sort of stuff.
So it does matter.
Yeah, it's an interesting one.
I find it quite rewarding whenyou do get it right, though, and
you do get that right businessowner that turns up with the
mindset and does you know wehave a partnership, it's a

(28:03):
partnership, we work together.
So, yeah, it's an interestingone.
I do feel sorry for businessowners, though, because it is
hard.
Right, marketing is hard.
It's kind of a confusingsubject, and look, you can see
all the books here that I'veread on marketing and all the
courses have done right.
You've got to get your brain inthe right space for it.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
Okay.
So if we take a late typicalclient and obviously hospitality
as a crossover in the work thatwe've worked for, so when a
hospitality client turns up,typically how big are they,
where are they and what's thetop three or four kind of
challenges they're coming to youwith?

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah, yeah.
So obviously, bums on seats,right, they want more people in
the restaurant.
Generally, we'll find outpretty quickly if they know
their numbers.
And if they know their numberswe're a chance, because really
hospitality is about cash flow,right, and it's about
understanding what they'reprepared to pay to get someone
on that seat.
And then so we do talk a lotwith them at the start about hey

(28:59):
, do you know your numbers?
Because there's no point in usand it's interesting, I'm
talking to a hospitality coachabout this the other day you
know, point us talking to yourclients about marketing if they
don't have their people andculture sorted, if they don't
have their finances sorted, theydon't have their processes and
systems sorted, because we'llblow them up, we'll actually
make it worse for them, right?
So we actually pull away, butmake sure we have that

(29:21):
conversation with them.
Hey, what's your people andculture like?
Because you know, point havinga great marketing system.
If you come in the door and noone talks to you, right, you go
down to Kaiser.
I guarantee you like, you'll begreeted like a rock star.
You'll be looked after.
You can constantly be asked howyour meal's going.
Do you want another drink?
There's a whole bunch of thingsgoing on inside that people and

(29:42):
culture, the DNA of thebusiness.
Yeah, exactly, so we will lookat that first before we even go
and look at marketing.
Sometimes we'll you knowthere's two players have come in
and asked us this week.
They don't know it, but we'llgo to the restaurants first.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Must be really hard doing that market research and
bars and restaurants.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Well, that's the thing, that's the thing.
You've got to go and try theproduct, right, but we'll go
there first, right, we'll go andsee what it's like.
They don't, you know, theywon't know who we are, and even
if they do, their staff won't.
So we'll just to check out thatvibe, right, because you know,
as I say, like it is hard,you've got to get the right
people and if you, if you you'vegot the right people, then

(30:21):
you're a chance, right.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
So yeah, so Bumz on six number one.
So we want more people comingthrough the door.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
They want more people .
They definitely want profile.
You know they want, they want.
They want to be known.
They want to be seen on Google.
They definitely want.
We have some pretty cool stuffthat we do with mobile
technology and targetingtourists and targeting people
having birthdays and that sortof stuff.
So they want to be innovative.
They don't want to be seen tobe doing what everyone else is
doing.
So we bring some stuff to thetable that we know other places

(30:48):
aren't doing.
So that, and they want to keepup with trends.
They really want to be, and Iguess that's the thing that we
bring to them as well is bringfresh ideas.
And the other cool thing iswe'll work with your team.
You know, most restaurants andbars have young people around,
so my guys and girls are reallygood at the technology and
coming up with ideas, but so aretheir people right, and they
just need to know.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
So how do you go about getting those Bumz on six?
You've talked about video.
You talked about content.
Is there like a almost like abrand pack or like is there like
a set methodology?
You guys use that, you kind ofconsistent with those, and what
does that look?

Speaker 2 (31:23):
like yeah.
So I'm a massive believer inconsistency, message plus
frequency reach to createrelevancy.
So you've got to have aconsistent message.
What is it that in the day youwant to get known for?
You know so, winnie Begus, whodown here we were.
They'd gone through somebranding situations over the,
you know, probably the last fiveyears.
They're a little bit confused.
We started working with them.

(31:43):
I said, look, let's go and readall the reviews.
We've got a thousand reviewshere.
Who's has anyone ever taken thetime to read them?
No cool, let's go and read them.
Let's actually put it into theMay Eye.
Let's actually see what wordscome out coming through.
So we found it was great pizza,great people, great venue.
So, okay, let's market that.
We've got great pizza, we'vegot great people, we've got a
great venue.
So all of a sudden, we can haveconsistency of message.

(32:04):
We've actually got something tohang our hats on.
So that's really number one.
What do we get?
What's a message that we wantto get known for out there in
the marketplace?
And then that frequency ofreach Okay, what are we going to
use to do that?
Okay, what's our SEO look like?
What's our search engineoptimization when people Google
us on their phone.
How do we show up, you know?
So we've got to make sure allthat sort of stuff is solid
first.
And then, okay, what is oursocial media?

(32:25):
What does that look like?
How often are we posting?
What platforms are we using?
Where are our clients engagingwith us?
So, looking at all that andthen wrapping all that around,
analytics and going and seeingwhere the levers are being
pulled, you know, like Kaiser,we know costs.
On one of the things that wehave, it's a free pizza.
So if it's your birthday thismonth, you'll get.

(32:46):
You live in Christchurch, yougenerally will see, and you
between a certain age group,you'll get a free pizza offer.
Come up on your phone.
If it's not your birthday, youdon't see it, but if you see it,
you interact with it.
We know it costs $2.39 to getsomeone from that click into the
restaurant and we know onaverage they'll spend $62.

(33:06):
And that's the differencebetween good marketing and bad
marketing.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
It's quite interesting to say that book on
recent moment they talk aboutpeople moaning about the cost of
Google, the cost of SEO, thecost of Facebook, but what they
don't really measure is thereturn on investment.
So, yes, it may cost you $5 perclick, but if, on average,
you're getting $10X that or $20Xthat, then it's worth every
penny.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
And it's really interesting talking to business
owners that are new tounderstanding the numbers.
So I'll push the boundaries awee bit, because we have clients
spending $38 a click, but thenumbers are there and that'll
sound really expensive, right?
The funny thing is, I got mymind blown away last week in
Miami talking to a guy who looksafter lawyers.

(33:48):
He says it's drive time rightnow.
Ok, so one of his lawyers.
If someone has an accident, hewants the call, right, it's
$1,500 a click on Google, youknow, and I was talking to Josh
about this and he was, yeah,like this is what it is, and
he'll pay that all day longbecause he knows what one deals

(34:08):
with.
You know, they've run thenumbers, so they'll spend the
money when someone else willlook at that and go, whoa, I'm
not doing that, that's justridiculous.
But so it's just beingcomfortable and understanding
the numbers.
Numbers give you power when itcomes to marketing your business
, too, right?
Because if you understand thosenumbers, you'll, because any of
the day, good advertising andmarketing is about multiplying

(34:28):
and leveraging assets.
You know what are the assetsthat you're leveraging, right?
So so, yeah, it's aninteresting thing.
So, you know, I'd say for mostrestaurants, though.
Get good at your people andculture, get good at your
processes and systems.
First get good at your finances, then start your marketing.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
It's interesting because you're having dealt with
some of those bigger, biggerchains.
I guess they get that right.
And that's the differencebetween going from maybe one
site to say 50.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they knowthat it's.
And I remember reading a bookabout one of the early coffee
shops I think it was one of thecoffee shops in the UK, yeah,
and they said, essentially whatyou do is you get your DNA right
in that first site get thepeople, the culture, the systems

(35:07):
, the processes, and then youcopy good DNA.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
So if you don't get that stuff right you just copy
bad DNA right, bad DNA, so youdon't scale.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
And don't market bad.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
DNA.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
OK, so you mentioned some of the Facebook stuff, but
what's some of the other thingsyou look at?
So say, if we took yourmid-size hospitality business,
I'm guessing looking at theirwebsite would be an early call
looking at Facebook accounts.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
So what are the other things?
So, really mobile first.
So we look at mobile first, ok.
So, ok, what's the mobileexperience like?
Because, let's be honest,everyone's on their mobile right
.
So no point optimizing fordesktop right?
Like, make it OK, make yourdesktop look good, but really
optimize for that mobileexperience.
So we'll look at that first,because everything we're going
to run is going to be driven tothat mobile right from the hey.

(35:51):
What is that first experiencelike to how easy it is to book,
how easy it is to call.
You know you only have to go topeople's websites If you can't
push that button.
You know my wife we were downto need the other day and she
was, she was this button doesn'twork.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yeah it's frustrating .
Yeah, my wife does the same.
She thinks hitting the buttonhard is going to make it work.
So they must have gone to thesame, the same same school, but
that's the thing, right.

Speaker 2 (36:12):
So what's your mobile experience like?
Spend some time actuallylooking at that mobile
experience.
Well, one thing I love to dowith their clients is actually
sit down with them and do itwith them, make them feel
actually a wee bit awkward and Ilearned this from back when we
had on page one.
I remember working with agentleman John is in his I think
we've been in his late 60s,early 70s, and he owned Flowers

(36:33):
on Cashmere Beautiful man.
But he treated his onlinestores as as as valuable as his
offline shops right, and hewanted them to work as hard as
they could.
I remember sitting with him oneday and I said, john, have you
ever bought anything from your,from your websites?
And he goes, no.
I said, cool, give me yourcredit card.
And we sat there and we had itup on the screen and it was.
He realized how hard it was tobuy from himself.

(36:56):
So I like to sit there withpeople and show them hey, this
is what your customersexperience.
Here's, here's how we couldprobably make this better and
make it more seamless for people.
So that's, that's a great placeto start.
It's definitely, definitely,you know, and also so, so make
sure that's working hard for you.
But then go and look at yourclick on your social media
profiles.
I clicked on one yesterday.
This, this, actually companyreached out wanting us to do

(37:17):
some work with them.
It goes to an invalid page.
You know, it's all those littlethings that you just you, you
need to be constantly looking at.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
What are the top three mistakes that these
businesses are making?

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Top three mistakes trying to do it themselves.
It's a real big one, like I'veI've seen this time and time
again when they, when businessowners, try and do it themselves
, they're trying to like be a bea little bit cheap, you know,
don't want to, don't want to paythe experts or or and I think
that's a you can go down arabbit hole where you just can't

(37:52):
you, you it just moves too fastthese days, right, like I
employ people We've got probablyI kind of see my team as is
like a.
You know you, I bring my teamto the game.
You know it's like you, youhave a coaching.
When you, when you, when youcoach a team, you bring your
player, your, your coachinggroup, to that team.
If you create a film like Duryand and some of those big film

(38:13):
producers, they bring their teamto that film, right, and once
the film's over, they take theteam away.
You know, I'm bringing a teamof nine here in New Zealand and
back by a team in thePhilippines to that game.
So you, you think you can hiresomeone who can do SEO, adwords,
facebook ads, tiktok videos,editing, copywriting, social

(38:33):
media websites.
You can find that one humanthat can do that.
Well, I'll pay you for that.
You know, yeah, and I ain'tfound them right.
So so I think that's the,that's the thing that you know.
It's become a wee bit hard todo that, so so that's thing.
Number two would be just notknowing your numbers.
It's really is not knowing, notknowing what, what you're

(38:54):
prepared to pay to get a clientor a customer in the door, what
that client's with with to you.
Average spend, that customer,yeah, average spend, lifetime
value, really understanding that, you know, like to know that
you'd run.
You'd spend $2.60 every day toget $62 in the door, wouldn't
you?
Yeah, like that's a no brainer.
If I said that to you, boom,you'd run that.
But unless you've worked thatout, you wouldn't run.

(39:16):
That you know.
So you've got to, you've got toget comfortable understanding
those numbers from a marketingperspective.
And then, two, number three isjust really understand your
market consistency and messagefrequency of reach, great
relevancy.
Your job is, your job is tobecome relevant, but your job
there is to do the first twothings you know, because,
because people would decide whenyou're relevant.

(39:37):
You know, and I think that'sthe that's the thing that people
miss.
You know, they, they, theymight have one message, but then
they're never frequent with it,right?
So no one gets to know that,that who they are.
And you just have to.
You have to have consistencyand message of frequency, reach
relevancy and, over time, overtime, over time, and then people
start to know who you are.
You know and I always say it'sreally interesting there's

(39:59):
quality people and there'squantity people.
You know, some people have tosee one video, one ad one,
whatever one testimonial, andthey're in.
But then there's other peoplethat have to see 10, 12, maybe
years before they're in.
So so your job is to beconsistent with that and that's
that is the hard part, for for alot of people.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
How do those kind of businesses deal with?
I'm going to be polite here,but we all know those businesses
never know whether it's a chef,whether it's a staff or, but
they have a little bit of a badphase in their existence, where
you know and I can think of,excuse me, one or two examples
of the road where you've gone in, you've had a bang average meal

(40:38):
and you're like I won't go backthere again.
But obviously you can go back ayear's time and you go oh, this
was amazing.
It was great value for money,the portion size was good and so
it was great.
And obviously the manager'schanged the people I guess it's
probably people a lot of timebut how?
From a marketing sense, how doyou have because I'm guessing a
lot in hospital, but that mustbe quite common.
Yeah, it might even be a namefor it, I'm guessing.
Yeah, how did you get overthose bad phases?

Speaker 2 (40:59):
Yeah, I think you're right.
What you just said, though,it's about the people, and I
always believe and I've knownthis for working in the
corporate space leadership isaround, when, when it's rotten
at the top, it's rotten at thebottom, right, and so you will
have that in environments wherewhere, but you can go through
the periods of time where you,you know, and look, we've seen

(41:19):
this with restaurants, right,and, and had clients in this
week where it's been hard, likeCOVID's been hard, then hiring
staff's been hard, so we hadstaff shortages.
So, you know, they've got a fewbad reviews with staff
shortages and stuff, and it'slike, okay, cool, we've got that
back now, okay, so we're goingto take every opportunity to to
get those reviews.

(41:39):
You know, get the yep we've,we're going to reply to those
bad reviews and we're going totake ownership because, hey,
we've had staff shortages with,you know, but we know we're a
good business.
So now, when we get the goodreviews, we're going to get more
of them.
We're going to get more of them.
We're going to get more of them.
So, because you can't control,you're going to control what you
can control, right, you can'tcontrol the fact that the
government you know it's reallyinteresting, like so the

(41:59):
government made anyone who was amigrant worker if the New
Zealand person didn't want thejob and you were going to pay
the New Zealand dollar $30 anhour, you had to pay the migrant
worker $35, even though the NewZealand person didn't want the
job, right.
So that puts a massive stresson a business trying to run a
want to run a business but alsohave people come and work in it,
right.
So so there's a lot of issuesin that hospitality space that

(42:22):
that you don't see going to arestaurant.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
So supply costs as well, right.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
It's been hard on on on those types of businesses.
So yeah to your question.
You know I think a goodbusiness owner, you know people
are pretty reasonable, rightPeople?
I think people are generallygenerally pretty reasonable when
it comes to this sort of stuffand if they see a business owner
trying and turning it around,you know they'll get back in
there and support them.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yeah, okay.
And what are some of the bigtrends you're seeing?

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Big trends are definitely AI is is is on
everyone's lips.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
So we don't need marking consultancy.
No, no, we've got chat, gbt,we've got chat, gbt.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
It's interesting.
We've been, we've like, we've,we've created a.
We've been using AI indifferent, different ways for
for for a couple of years, butbut recently, since off the
whole, you know, everyoneexploded in in December and
January about chat, gbt and AI.
I challenged my team.
We've got a project here, it'scalled Operation Park and we're
basically looking at where,where the technology is going,

(43:22):
not where it's been, and so forevery hour that we save, that
team can show and document anddo a two minute presentation,
we'll put $500 into a, into abonus fund, and it's been really
interesting to see thedifferent types of AI technology
.
Now that's out there that thesewhat I call them young kids are
looking at and going, hey, wecould use this and save.
You know, classic one for us iswe go out on a photo shoot and

(43:44):
we might shoot 300 photos.
Normally we'd go back and haveto weed through all those photos
to get the big, the best ones.
Now we use a piece of softwarecalled aftershoot.
It's an AI piece and it and itbasically goes through those
videos, through those photos,looks at it all for us and and
basically tells us here's thetop 20.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
But so there's no red eye, no, no one blinking, no
one looking the wrong way, andwe don't have to, we don't have
to look at that and it grades it.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
And then, the cool thing about it it starts to
learn how we like stuff on.
We can put a client's job inthere.
This is how our client, thatclient likes it.
And next client this is howthey like it.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
So and I think for me , like you, look at the some of
those AI tools, their tools atthe end of the day, right and if
they can save your time andthey're doing the labor and the
grunt work that you probablywouldn't you know wasn't very
rewarding and you still got tobe creative, still come up with
the ideas.
You've still got to, you know,but essentially, we can save
your time.
Yeah you're fully right.
Yeah, so so chat GBT aftershootfor photos.

(44:40):
Yeah, aftershoot.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
What's some of those other cool ones you use?
We're using Munch at the momentMunch app.
So Munch.
Well, what that'll do is really, really interesting.
Another piece of crazy bit ofsoftware one of my team come to
me and said hey, have you seenthis?
I was like no.
So what'll allow you to do isyou shoot a video.
I did a test with a 16 minutevideo, just me talking to the
video, to the camera, put itinto Munch and it will basically

(45:02):
take your video and the AI willlook at all the different parts
of that video and split it upinto how many segments you want
it.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
So if you're doing, like a guide or something.
Why don't you say step one,step two, that one?

Speaker 2 (45:16):
So it'll do it for YouTube, it'll do it for
LinkedIn, it'll give youdifferent videos for TikTok, all
that sort of stuff, basicallywhat you want.
So the first time we did it,man, it sucked like it was just
rubbish right.
So I actually wrote to thembecause I thought no, with AI,
one thing I realised is, overthe years, you know crap and
crap out.

(45:36):
But one thing I also realisedwith AI it gets better fast, you
know, and that's the thing I'vereally noticed.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
So I wrote to these guys.
So chatGBT Freeze different to4x4, sorry about that.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, but that's the thing, right, it gets better.
So I was like, okay, I'm goingto reach out to these guys
because I think this is goodsoftware.
So I wrote to them, just likeemail me back and say, oh,
thanks for the feedback.
By the way, yeah, we'rereleasing another version and
it's going to be better, so canjust give us a couple of weeks.
So again a couple of weeks andthen in two weeks time did the
same experiment and it wasamazing.

(46:06):
In the video they have a reallyinteresting they put low
coherency or high coherency andbased off what the AI thinks of
the output that it's giving you,so 16 minute video got eight
videos of high coherency andthey were really, really good.
And that just showed to mebecause I'd actually and I've
actually got this documented.
I'd actually run a job onUpwork the month before and it

(46:29):
cost me 350 New Zealand Dollarsto get the same video edited.
But the worst part about it isI had to go back and forward
with the editor about he'dmucked up the time state since,
so it probably cost me another10 hours.
And I was like, wow, thistechnology is replacing that
dude, you know.
And look, I want to employ morepeople using technology, saving

(46:50):
my time here and I can actuallyemploy better people to do.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
I think the website stuff will be interesting as
well.
I know they're saying thateventually that will be like
that, but I had the sameexperience with on Upwork.
So I went to these so-calledexperts and said, look, I just
need these five pages.
You're the experts designed forthis particular platform, and
it probably took me 10, 15 hoursto kind of correct the work and

(47:14):
so.
But I think once those AI toolsget, when do you see it?

Speaker 2 (47:17):
in your industry, local and what you're doing?
Where do you see AI?

Speaker 1 (47:20):
landing.
Yeah, so I think it'sinteresting around, certainly in
the HR space.
So where there's opportunities,there are taking some of those
transactions away that maybemanagers probably shouldn't be
doing.
So I know it's reallycontentious.
But performance conversationsso yes, you still be having
those check-ins.
But when you've got maybe AI orsomeone checking in like, hey,

(47:43):
how are you doing, How's Scott,How's your day been Anything?
How are you checking in withyour goals and beefing, most
people probably don't reallycare whether that's a robot or a
manager, but they knowsomeone's asking those questions
.
They go, okay, well, why don'twe get something to diary if you
do this training?
So I definitely think aroundsome conversations and
performance conversations.
I think just, it sounds sillybecause I've used this quite a

(48:04):
hundred times, but one of theguys I speak to says everyone's
talking about artificialintelligence, so I'm dealing
with real-life stupidity.
Yeah, yeah, yeah so the bar thatpeople are coming from is quite
so, even something like havinga HR at which is like a little
chatbot they're working on where.
So you ask how much leave haveI got?
Yeah, it goes.
Yeah, you've got 15 days.
Or I need to take nextWednesday off they go.

(48:26):
I need to fill in this form.
So I think those kind of thingsdefinitely.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
If you just look at that, though, right.
So how many people, how manymanagers, would get interrupted
with those questions?
Oh, it's death by thousand cuts.
They don't need to be right.
And that's the cool thing aboutAI.
I really believe AI.
I said this, I did a workshopwith my clients, we did a lunch
and learn, and I really believeit's AI and HI, human
intelligence.
Ai creates the superintelligence, right?

(48:53):
So if you can get your braintogether with the AI and say,
hey, mr AI, mrs AI, I want to dothat, how can I do that?
And the AI helps you do thatand you save time.
That is the game changer,because no one wants to be
interrupted with those questions.
You don't need to beinterrupted with those questions
.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
Yeah, 100%.
So I think the dates is the keyto it all.
The interest I took the boy tosee Mission Impossible at the
weekend and the super fill inhis AI.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
So look, and here's the interesting thing, like
going to the States.
One of the reasons I went tothe States is I wanted to talk
to agencies and what they'redoing with AI.
And it turns out we're you know, we're kind of on the same path
and doing a number of stuff.
But I also started to talk tothem about hey, what are you?
What are the conversationsyou're seeing around?
You know, because people I findpeople are seeing it either one
or two ways.
They don't like AI, ai isdangerous and they're not open

(49:41):
to seeing what's really going on, or the other way, and AI is
going to be the next best thing.
I think you have to have abalance there, right, and I
think that's the interestingpart, when you start to see,
because mainstream media willvillainise it, right, they want
to.
They want to see that you'reafraid of what's going on.
And there are some dodgy thingsgoing on, let's not, but

(50:02):
there's dodgy things going oneverywhere right so so I think
that's that you got to have thatbalance.
But I think, at the end of theday, you got to start having
those conversations.
I think if you're an owner inbusiness, you must start having
conversations with your teamabout AI and how they're using
it and how you could save sometime.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
It's interesting.
So I follow a lot of thestartup community and over in
the States.
Apparently there's not onebusiness that's going for VC
funding that hasn't got an AIcomponent in there.
So that's just the way theworld works Well they're not
going to look at you otherwiseare they?
Yeah, so you mentioned you'vebeen over to Miami.
What was that all about?

Speaker 2 (50:36):
So I'm a part of an agency group, a worldwide agency
group, that gets together andbasically shares what's working,
what's going on, what'shappening.
We have speakers internally, soyou've got people from doing,
you know, 10 grand a month as anagency to $8 million a month as
an agency, so there's all thosein between and so they kind of

(50:56):
it's run by a couple and, yeah,they brisk, bring good people
together.
So, talking AI, actuallytalking podcasts, we were
talking how to use AI to be moreproductive and creating
playbooks inside the business.
Heaps are really coolconversations going on and just
really meeting with your I guessyou know fellow agency owners,

(51:21):
which is which is really good todo.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
What was some of the big takeaways?
Because I always find that yourmind gets blown when you go
overseas, especially to someconferences, and you come back
absolutely buzzing and flyingand they're like oh yeah, we can
really do this and it's a hugeopportunity here in New Zealand.
So what were some of those kindof top two or three takeaways
you came back with?
I knew.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
I kind of knew because I met a guy in 219 up in
San Diego, staying with thehouse with him went to a
conference called TraffickingVersion and I kind of I wanted
to see how his business hasexploded and he was using short
form video content to do that.
So that was a good ground forme that they were on the right
path there.
So you know that I guess thatwas just for me validation that

(52:01):
we're doing the right thing.
But I wanted to see and ask hima couple of questions around a
couple of different models.
So that was great.
And then another one was arounda couple of guys had sold their
business to you know a big, bigequity firm, basically, and they
laid out how they did it andthat was really really
interesting hearing you know thepotential of what these, some

(52:23):
of these big companies arelooking for to buy and what you
need to have you know your ducksin a row to have in a row.
So that was really good for mebecause obviously you know you
don't hear all those stories allthe time here, but to hear two
guys stand up and talk aboutthat and then lay it all out and
the line was really really cool.
Then they also have this otherthing which is fantastic they

(52:43):
have a Ninja Sword and it'sNinja Hacks.
So you get 10 minutes and youhave the best of the best.
Get up there and show you whatthey're doing from a Google ads
perspective, from a Facebook adsperspective, from a video
perspective, from how they'redoing JVs, and it was freaking
awesome to see how some of theselike I'll call them young kids,

(53:04):
but also these people arecreating, generating revenue,
just doing things differently,and they laid on the line and
then, because you're in thegroup, you get access to
everything that they've justtaught you.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
I use that example the prime, the prime drink.
So I went back to the UK for mygrandfather's funeral back in
May and the kids said bring mesome prime, bring me some prime,
and essentially it's justGatorade or one of these energy
drinks, but the influence is atKSI and those guys.
But they've obviously tappedinto all the tools or the
techniques to create a brand.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
And it's interesting to see how brands are being
created now, too, right, and howquickly some of those brands
are being created, and I thinkthat's one of the key things,
though, is obviously have a goodproduct.
You know like, don't cutcorners on your product, right,
because you get found out, butbuild a community, and that's
what I see those guys havereally done.
They've built communities, andgirls have done really well as

(54:00):
well, you know, and sometimesyou might think, oh, they've
created it out of nowhere, butsome of these people have been
working on it for seven or eightyears, you know, and then, all
of a sudden, they've just foundthe right media to use to get in
front of this audience.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
Do you find that the businesses that you work with
have a like a fit?
Because, I've mentioned a lotof times, they have budgets and
they put their you know, theirforecasts together, but, like in
your IT world, for example,it's always 10x right, so you
spend 10% of your revenue onmarketing and sales.
So do you have find that otherindustries have similar metrics?
Yep, they do.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
And also but it's interesting right now how that's
changing.
You know so right now obviouslyrecession some of their best
clients will spend more money.
They just know.
They know from experience.
They know from being in thebusiness and going through the
tough times.
They know that people arehurting right now.
Other business owners will behurting so they'll take their
market share because they'llpull back, so they'll spend more

(54:54):
exponentially.
You know, some clients aredoubling their marketing budget
just because they know they'lltake market share and it sounds
counter to when you think aboutit but they don't listen.
They don't listen to the newsmedia.
They know from experience sothat.
But yeah, you're right, likethe people will spend X amount
of revenue and that sort ofstuff.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
So, if you listen to this as a business owner or
maybe a manager in, maybe amid-sized business, what's some
of the things that are comingtheir way, or some of the things
you need to be thinking about?
You know 2023, 2024, as you say, recession.
You know, from a marketingperspective, if you could give
them three bits of informationthat they need to walk away and
speak to their bosses about,what would that be?

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Yep, I would definitely get around.
I would look where the thing.
Where can you win?
I'll get really serious aboutwhere you can win.
Okay, from a strategicperspective, look at, look at.
Okay, what are the assets thatwe have that are, that are, that
are good?
You know what's our websitelook like, what's our mobile
look like, what's our databaselook like, what are the offers
that we have out there in themarketplace?
So, start to get, start to lookat all that and it's really

(55:58):
interesting.
You might have some thingsthere that you are not using.
So the other day, we did a whereyou can win strategy session
with a company.
They've been doing podcastingand they had some of the best
industry people on their podcastbut hadn't promoted it, you
know, and they hadn't told thestory and they're top telling
that story.
Those were assets that theycould actually leverage and I

(56:19):
said it doesn't matter that theywere filmed two years ago, it's
irrelevant, it's good content,okay.
So so look at, look at whatyou've got, because, because
there'll be things in there thatyou'll be able to reuse and use
.
Okay, so, where can you win?
And look at also take a look atyour competitors.
You know, one of the bestthings you can start to do and
this takes no money whatsoeveris go and start reading the
reviews of your clients or yourcompetitors sorry, your

(56:42):
competitors.
Go and start reading thereviews of your competitors.
Go and start listening to, to,to the testimonials or video
testimonials they've got ontheir page, or the or the or the
written testimonials.
Go and find out if they've gotsome bad reviews.
What are they saying?
Really could and this is marketintelligence right, you can do
this right now to sharpen yoursword, and it costs you no money
.
And the sad part about it isbecause it costs you no money,

(57:05):
most people won't go and do it,but I can tell you right now
from experience.
You start to learn things, andwe've seen it with our clients.
You start to oh, we shouldcreate that product.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
I did it, yeah, so for workforce free.
So there was a couple of bigglobal players out there and the
one thing that the people onthe reviews were moaning about
was number one.
The onboarding process was allfor right.
So we can't do e-signatures, wecan't add our own documents.
So I was like, great, that'stwo features to go straight into
workforce free.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
Yeah, and and and that.
Well, how much did that costyou?
Yeah, yeah, so you're doing itnow, right, yeah, and you learn
so much, and I think this is theyou know.
So, if, if you've got to beresourceful right now, you've
got to be resourceful, so that'ssomething you could definitely,
definitely go and do.
I guess.
Then look at, let then look atokay, where do you want to,
where do I want to go?
You know, because if you don'thave a plan, you know you're in
trouble, right, so, where do youactually want to be?

(57:50):
Like, okay, where are you now?
So you're looking at where youwent, where do you actually want
to be?
And also, I look at it.
So, okay, what do you want tobe known for?
Okay, you're a business andyou're you're.
What is it If?
If I say the word soft drink,you think yeah.
If I say fast food, yeah.
And if I say heat pumps andChristchurch and so, so, as a

(58:13):
business, what is it that youwant to be known for?
Like, just think about that andreally get clear on that.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
So, since, you're because pizza and when he bagos
now go together, right, you know, especially in Christchurch.
I would say that that'sprobably the case and we want to
make the same for cars, Allright best bar.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
So if you haven't been to Kaiser, please go there.
No, but so, so that, and onceagain, that's two things don't
cost you any money, yeah, andthen, and then really just and I
said this before but like getclear on your numbers, because
once you know your numbers, youcan multiply, like good
advertising, as I said before,multiplying capital, leveraging
those assets you know, and thatonce again.

(58:48):
And then the fourth thing I'dadd to that is go and try some
stuff.
You know, really have a crack,like it costs you nothing to put
a video of it in your time,right, yeah, other than your
time.
Go and put a video up.
Go and start doing some stuff,if you know, if you, and start
Start actually having anddipping a toe into the game.
That's what I love about what Ido is like I'm not just telling
you to go and do this.

(59:08):
You can go and see what I'mdoing.
I'm doing this today.
You know we're gonna havevideos going out today.
We've got content going outtoday, and this is the world we
live in now.
If you've told me 10 years agoI could create a video in the
morning and, while I'm at thegym Doing my treadmill and stuff
, putting it out on the on onLinkedIn and have it creating
conversations in the afternoon,you know for free.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
It's interesting, I think, the brevity is definitely
increasing still, though, right.
So now, what was 20 minutevideos have come down to two
minutes, which have come down to30 seconds, right, and so I
think, and I think people'sattention spans are diminishing.
So so yeah, so so I think theabsolute, that, that that
content we can create on the fly, definitely, but I think this
noise is well.

(59:52):
I think, yeah, insights, yeah,what insights have you got?
Let's be the key key there,yeah, okay.
So one last question on theterms of marketing what would
you say is?
What would you say is the tallor Medium or channel that gives
you the most bang for buck in2023?

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
I was bang for buck.
It's a it's an interestingquestion and and I'd love to
give you a straight answer asfar as one thing, but it really
depends on your target market.
But if you're, if you'retargeting people between the age
of 40 and 60, right now,facebook is where you should be
advertising.
Facebook reels, facebook video,video views massive believer, a
massive fan of video views.

(01:00:30):
So you can put a video onInstagram and Facebook set it as
video views.
When anyone watches that video,based off the the amount of
that video they watched.
It's called consumption basedtagging.
You can put them in an audience.
You can then show them, ifthey've watched they, a hundred
percent of that video.
You can show them another videoand then you can show them
another video.
So all of a sudden, you cantake people from not knowing you

(01:00:51):
to no liking and trusting youreally, really fast, using that
platform.
When I first started digitalinfluence we we started as a
Facebook ads only right, we wereway too early.
You know, I wish we'd startedit now and my target audience
was 40 to 60 year olds, becausethey are there on Facebook now.
Everyone else is kind of left.
So if you're looking to targetyounger, you need to be on

(01:01:12):
Instagram, you need to be ontiktok, you know snapchat, those
sort of stuff.
But if I had a product and mydecision makers were 40 to 60
year old, yep, I'll be on.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Facebook all day long .
Yep, it's interesting becausemy ideal customer profile was in
the age age group and mysister-in-law happens to fall
into it, so it was a way overover in Nusa a couple weeks ago.
So I was talking to her.
I said, uh, yeah, so so do you.
Uh, did you go into Facebook?
Oh, yeah, yeah, all the time,every day.
How often do you post?
Oh, never all post.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Yeah, and that's the cool part about boys right.
Boys like and and also you know.
So that is the opportunity.
Right, they're not going topost, but they're there, they're
on it and and they're consumingit.
Look, you sit on two sides.
I think business owners reallyneed to understand this when,
when you look at social media,look, social media doesn't care.
And look, you can have anopinion on social media, whether
it's bad or good or whateverfor, for society or whatever.

(01:02:02):
But, trust me, if you're abusiness owner, you need to sit
on one side and that's theproducer side.
Right, you need to be producingcontent and you need to be
advertising on that platform.
It is just like the tv station,it is media.
So if you sit on the consumerside, like your sister, sissy,
lawyer, she sits on the consumerside, completely different side
than than the producer side.

(01:02:24):
Right, business owners, youmust sit on the producer side
because that's where you cangenerate sales and generate
revenue.
And your next customer is therebecause they're on there,
they're on their mobile phoneand they're there and drives and
they're there wanting to be Beone, entertained and two, they
want to buy stuff.
It's, it's incredible what they.
They want to do.
So for that, for that, for thattarget market, just hit it hard

(01:02:45):
.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Yeah, because you can hear that quite a lot.
You know google prices havegone up and you know other
channels etc.
She's obviously tech talks,probably for the younger
generation and whatnot.
But yeah, I agree, facebook,and they always say, right,
where do your audiences hang outand congregate?
Right, and facebook probably.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
And and that's and that's the.
I guess that's the key to it.
Right, where is your audience?
You, you know, if your audienceis, if your audience is
somewhere else, then besomewhere else.
Right, like, don't, like it's.
It's because I, you know, Iremember starting the, the
agency, and we were justeveryone's going, hey,
facebook's for kids, and I waslike, oh yeah, but we were
trying to make it work, right,and then is it started to tune.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
I think building that ideal customer profile for me,
that have all the things we'relearning, yeah, and we worked
together and you've done itbefore and that continued after.
But when your Lays are focusedon that person and it's not
personas but it's looselypersonas, what used to be but
when you laser focus on theproblems that person's got you
know, it makes your life 20times easier and the solutions

(01:03:41):
you provide because, here's thething people don't think
solution problem.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
They think problem solution right.
So if you can market to themand understand their problems
better than them, then then youbecome that person of authority.
Talk to them as well, right?

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Yeah, because I interesting in early workforce
today's was doing validation.
I was convinced that theproblem was managing the
workforce.
Yeah, it wasn't.
It was actually the complianceand legal side of it.
Wow, that's like we can.
You should call this cover myass, because Actually making
this compliant right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Yeah, and so isn't that interesting, right?
You don't find that out tillyou start having real
conversations.
And talking to a friend aboutthat this morning I said, mate,
just gonna start talking topeople.
Fine, like you're trying tomake up, you're trying to
actually think this is what youthink it is.
Go and talk to them.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Yeah, and what would say in?
Certainly in Christchurch, inNew Zealand as well, it's a lot
easier to do that, you know.
Like in London, like I wassaying, is there a day like if
you Try and speak to 50 people,a lot piss off, mate, I'm busy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Yeah, it's like over here.
Oh yeah, come on, I have a chathere and yeah and I think also
like if you can frame it.
You know like people love togive their opinions, they do.
Yeah, you know.
So you know can you give somefeedback?

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
Yeah, you're an expert.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Yeah, struggling with this a little bit, could you,
you know?
Oh, okay, yeah, cool, I'll giveyou some time.
So it's um, you know thatpeople are interesting like that
, though.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Yeah, they are well.
Okay, scott, I'm gonna Juststart wrapping things up.
I'm gonna ask you one questionthat I asked all the guests on
the show and is if you could goback and give 21 year old scots
my advice, what would that be?
I?

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
saw this question I thought it was really
interesting one.
I'd travel more, yeah,definitely, I definitely travel
more.
I would have traveledthroughout the states a lot more
.
I would have learned to sell alot earlier.
I think that's a really key,key skill, um, but the big one
was like, if I was and I tell myson this, don't worry about
what other people think of you.

(01:05:23):
I think we spend too much timeWorrying about what other people
think of us at that young age.
You know it causes, probablyit's causing a whole bunch of
anxiety for for humans today and, like he realizes, you get
older like no one's actuallythinking about, if you're just
thinking about the spotlighteffect.
No spotlight.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
So basically, essentially, what people are
actually thinking about you andwhat you think they think about
me is generally like one in ahundred, yeah, and so you think
that everyone's actually whatactually people think and care
about you is zero.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
I remember listening and I was a wee bit older and I
went to the seminar and Bradsugar's, who owns action
international, was talking andhe just said what anyone else
thinks of me is none of mybusiness.
And I didn't get it at the time, but now I do like it's none of
my business what people thinkof me, and, and like always, my
nan are saying hey, you know,treat people how you'd want to
be treated and things would beokay.
And I think for me that's beenUm.

(01:06:14):
So if I was 20, if I could talkto my 21 year old self, I'd say
that, hey, just don't worryabout what people think you know
, go and chase what you want, um, and be clear about what you
want you know, and so.
So that would Put me in goodstead.
The cool thing is I know it now, so you know you can, you can
go and do it.
Quite such one.

(01:06:34):
I'd love to be 21 again, though.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
Um, okay, so if anyone's listening this and
Likes to cut your jab and, youknow, wants to have a chat about
, maybe how your business canhelp them, how do they get in
touch?

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Yeah, definitely look , I love talking to business
owners.
I love talking to people aboutOne where they can win and and
and how we can possibly helpthem or put him onto the right
people that can.
I think that's one of the coolthings.
I've extensive network ofpeople.
That that, uh, that I know agood A, you know, right for the
right people.
I love hanging out on LinkedIn.
For me, linkedin's a greatplace.
So if you want to connect withme, uh, look at me up on

(01:07:08):
LinkedIn.
I'll be at Scott Wilson 10x, Ithink it is or come to a website
, get digital influence, calm,um and and track us down that
way.
So you know, easy to easy toget hold of, always happy to
have a conversation too.
So perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Scott.
Thanks so much for your timetoday.
I've been fascinating justhearing about some of those
trends on marketing and and yourhospitality and and some of
those challenges those businessowners are facing and really
look forward to Is continue tosee the success of your business
and what you're all about.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Yeah, man, hey, thanks for being on the podcast.
It's been great of the listenera few of your podcasts now.
There's been some really goodgood guests, so hopefully edit
some value to your community aswell.
100% Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Scott Cheers.
Have fun All right.
So that's another great episodedone and dusted, as always.
I'd love to hear from you ifyou know anyone that's got a
really good story to tell abouthow they are or not living a
productive life.
If you want to get in touchwith me, please do so by my
website, wwwleastevansco.

(01:08:08):
That's wwwleastevansco.
You can email me, li atleastevansco, or get in touch on
LinkedIn, which way I also hangout In the meantime.
Have a good week.

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