Productivity from Nutrition: With Cailie Ford

Unlock the energy-boosting secrets of nutrition with Cailie Ford, a change management expert turned nutritionist, on this latest installment of the Time and Motion podcast. 

Your host, Lee Stevens, invites you to discover how the food on your plate can revolutionize your productivity both personally and professionally. 

We share stories from Cailie's pastoral roots and how her journey through the corporate world led to transformative insights on dietary habits. Together, we uncover why breakfast is the cornerstone of hormone balance and how a protein-packed toast can fuel your day.

As an executive navigating the high demands of leadership, maintaining a vibrant lifestyle amidst a hectic schedule can seem daunting. We tackle this head-on, providing actionable strategies for managing time and sustaining healthy eating habits, even through back-to-back meetings and business travels. You'll walk away with a renewed perspective on how to resist the draw of convenience foods and the pivotal role of nutrition in ensuring you're at the top of your game. We also dive into the intricacies of using morning caffeine to your advantage, ensuring that your daily coffee ritual supports, rather than hinders, your sleep and energy levels.

But it's not just about the meals—it's about fostering a culture of well-being within organizations. Learn how companies are harnessing nutritional workshops and well-being programs to spark a surge in employee engagement and productivity. We'll discuss the significance of sleep, movement, and the latest in health technology to support a balanced lifestyle. And for those who resonate with tales of ambition and achievement, we invite you to share your own stories of productivity triumphs. 

Join us for a conversation that nourishes the mind, inspires action, and champions a healthier, more productive you.

Hear how some of Australasia's most interesting and successful people are utilising People, Technology and Processes to live a productive life.

For more information on Lee Stevens visit www.leestevens.co

Sponsored by workforcery.com

Episode Transcript

Lee Stevens (00:08):
Welcome to the Time and Motion podcast with me,
your host, Lee Stevens.
For over 25 years, I've workedwith businesses all over the
world to improve the technologyand the people within them.
In this podcast, I share someof my experiences and I chat to
guests who generously sharetheir stories of how to or, in
some cases, how not to live aproductive life.
I hope you enjoy the show.

(00:28):
Cailie Ford.
hi, welcome.

Cailie Ford (00:41):
Hello Lee, Thank you so much for having me.

Lee Stevens (00:43):
No problem.
How are you doing on this verywet and non-Brisbane type day?

Cailie Ford (00:48):
Yeah, it's disappointing for Queensland
weather, but I'm staying dry andall my years in Sydney taught
me I live in a house without anumbrella, so I take that with me
every day.

Lee Stevens (00:59):
As I said to someone this morning, this
wasn't in the brochure right,All this rain we've been getting
Absolutely not no, you see lotsof nice pictures of nice sandy
beaches and blue skies and notthe constant rain that we've had
.

Cailie Ford (01:12):
Yeah, exactly Good for the gardens.

Lee Stevens (01:16):
Good for the garden .
Okay so, katie Ford nutrition.
Before we kind of really getgoing, let's just tell us a bit
about you, where you grew up andwhere your early beginnings
were.

Cailie Ford (01:26):
Sure, I'm actually a country girl, so I spent the
first six or so years of my lifeon a farm in country Queensland
before going to school when wemoved to the Big Smoke, to
Toowoomba.
So it was a really quaintbeginning because we had a hobby

(01:49):
farm, we were raised on goats,milk from our own goats, we had
ducks, chickens, extensiveveggie plots and my mum pretty
much made everything fromscratch, which was incredible.
And I now know in my clinicalexperiences, nutritionist, that
that early exposure to wholefoods and everything grown at

(02:12):
home has had such a positiveimpact on my wellbeing to date.

Lee Stevens (02:16):
Where did you go to school?
Where did you go to uni?
And then, how did you end up inthe world of nutrition?

Cailie Ford (02:22):
It was a meandering journey.
So I did half of my highschooling at a girls school in
Toowoomba before my parentsmoved to the Sunshine Coast, and
so I spent the last couple ofyears at high school in the
Sunshine Coast.
I started a linguistics degreeat uni in Brisbane, at Griffith

(02:44):
Uni, but then the bright lightsof Sydney beckoned and so I
parked that degree and moved toSydney and started my corporate
career.
But I guess for me there wasalways this sort of niggling
thing.
I was a bit of a health and art.
I knew I loved cooking, I lovedfood, I was always interested

(03:07):
in that, but I just wasn't surewhere to go with it and what to
do.
And then it was one of thoseepiphany moments where I was at
a conference and they wereasking what does everyone really
really want to do?
And I just stood up and said Iwant to study nutrition.
And within a month I wasenrolled in my nutrition degree

(03:32):
at Endeavour College in Sydneyand then proceeded to study
part-time whilst workingfull-time and then also having
three babies during that time.
So there was a lot ofbreastfeeding up the back of
lectures.
There was a lot of stolen studymoments during babies sleep.

(03:54):
Yes, it is a journey that Iwould recommend for young
players.
Not necessarily, but it wascharacter building and I'm so
happy that I'm here.

Lee Stevens (04:05):
So you mentioned you're doing a full-time job.
So what was the full-time gigat the time?

Cailie Ford (04:09):
Yeah, my background is in corporate change
management, so I was incorporate for a very long time
and it's interesting becausethere is so much synergy between
change management and what I doin nutrition.
And I realised that early onbecause I was working in
behavioural change programs inchange management and I quickly

(04:33):
realised, well, I'm helpingpeople enact change in the
corporate sense and then whatI'm doing in nutrition is
helping people shift theirbehaviour in a personal sense.
So I'm able to draw on thatexperience a lot in my nutrition
work now.

Lee Stevens (04:50):
So I was really excited to have you on the show.
Actually, because one of thethings that's always dawned on
me that you hear about a lot inthe corporate world and you hear
about in on LinkedIn and allthe TV shows we watch is about
high performing.
People generally are highperforming in all attributes of
their life, not just corporateright.
So whether it be what's goinginto their body or the amount of

(05:12):
exercise they do, or just theamount of wellbeing they look
after themselves and mindfulness, so, there's so much out there
now compared to maybe 20 yearsago or 30 years ago, when some
of us sent the workforce show myage.
But I think for me it was quiteexciting to get young, because I
think there's definitely acorrelation between the two.
And when we had that chat a fewweeks ago and you said, well,

(05:34):
how am I going to help?
I was like, well, look,business productivity, workforce
productivity we've got to getall of those tanks equally for
right.
So I guess the question I wouldask you, kicking things off, is
for those high performers andto maintain that peak
productivity, how does what weeat impact on our ability to

(05:54):
perform both professional andpersonal lives?

Cailie Ford (05:59):
It's huge.
You know, just as the bodyneeds the right fuel for, say,
physical activities if you thinkabout if someone was training
for whether it be a 10 kilometrerun or a half marathon they
need to be conscious of thefoods that are eating to fuel
the physical body.

(06:19):
But the brain requires specificnutrients to maintain its
function and enhance itsproductivity.
So it's really looking at ourproductivity through the
nutrition lens is quite profound, because there are key things
that can inhibit or enhance yourproductivity, you know.

(06:43):
Of course there are some obviousones, like alcohol can inhibit
productivity because if you'vegot a high intake of alcohol,
that does everything from ithijacks your deep sleep, it
raises cortisol levels, itincreases anxiety.
You know all these sorts ofthings that are counter

(07:06):
productive.
But then also there's foodsthat can help with our
production of neurotransmitters,like GABA and serotonin, and
those are our nice calmingneurotransmitters and GABA
actually helps the brain to slowdown and to process information

(07:26):
so that you're better able tobe productive.
And there are nutrients thatenhance those neurotransmitters,
like the foods that containthose key nutrients are seeds,
pulses, whole grains, cottagecheese, chicken.

(07:47):
You know, conscious consumptionof all those foods can have a
profound impact on not only yourwell-being overall, but
productivity, of course.

Lee Stevens (07:57):
So I'm probably your worst nightmare when it
comes to people you'd beadvising, because there's heaps
of stuff I guess I know that Ineed to do more of and, like you
, take the alcohol into questionand it's about what you eat.
So if you're hungover, you endup going for sausages or bacon
sandwich.
It's just like a spiral thatyou end up going down, but

(08:19):
obviously at the same time, Iguess, like for me, it's all
about balance, right?
So I guess if you go out andhave those drinks, you're
probably going to pay for it thenext day in terms of anxiety
and sleep.
So what is the right balancethese days?
Because I guess, in an idealworld, you do all the stuff that
we're going to talk about inthe next half hour, 45 minutes,
but how do you see peoplegetting that balance to a point

(08:42):
where they're happy as well?
Because generally, when I goall in on these stuff, if I was
training for an event, you knowyou're probably going to do it,
but not necessarily happy.
So, yeah, how do you getbalance?
I guess, is the question.

Cailie Ford (08:54):
Yeah, I think balance is incredibly important
because that is what results insustainable change.
You know that all or nothingapproach doesn't work because it
perpetuates this restrict andbinge mentality.
So I'm incredibly pragmatic andpractical when I engage with

(09:15):
clients in my private practice,which is sort of one pillar of
my business.
The corporate side of things isanother.
But when I'm dealing withpeople one on one, I'm always
very open about the fact thatit's not about what we take away
, it's what can we add in that'sgoing to enhance your health

(09:38):
and wellbeing.
So, on the alcohol front, thereare practical strategies that
you can employ and ones that Iadhere to myself.
So having alcohol free nights aweek is a really positive start
to begin with, so that you andwhatever is going to be
achievable for you.
So, drawing on my changemanagement background, I always

(10:01):
sit down with clients and it'snot me telling you what I want
you to do, but what's going tobe achievable for someone on an
individual basis.
So, having alcohol free nightsso that you can see the
difference, because people mightnot think that even just one or

(10:21):
two drinks is going to have animpact, but when you have that
noticeable distinction betweenno alcohol nights and then
alcohol nights.
You see the difference of whatit does 100%.

Lee Stevens (10:32):
Yeah, so interesting.
I bought a sports watch adecent one a couple of years ago
, and so one thing that alwaysintrigues me is the sleep.
You know it shows you the deepsleep and REM and light sleep
and there's a direct correlation.
There's no arguing that yoursleep is impacted, even with
those two.
So sometimes, like all of theinterest of science, as you can

(10:55):
imagine, I've tried a few thingsout over the last few months.
I thought how much sleep itgets effective.
I just have those two beers andit just amazed me.
You think those two beers don'thurt, don't affect anything,
but you just go.
Well, would it be really worthit if it's affected my sleep so
much?
And there's a noticeabledifference, right?
So I guess you hear quite a lot.

Cailie Ford (11:17):
Yeah, so I think you're so right and so I kind of
time box my alcohol consumptionso I have no alcohol during the
week and then I have moderateconsumption on a Friday and a
Saturday.
Of course you know a totallypurest view.
No alcohol would be an idealscenario, but I am a parent of

(11:40):
three young children and aworking parent as well, so some
alcohol is what I do to maintainbalance in my life.
But I absolutely notice thedifference and it is a conscious
choice that I know that mysleep will be disrupted somewhat
, but I try to minimise that bydoing other things I know are

(12:06):
going to help my sleep at thesame time, so conscious things
that can help your sleep notonly quality but quantity as
well.
So I ensure that I get directsunlight within about 15 minutes

(12:28):
or all afternoon.
After me after the weekend.
Well, I still get out there inthe direct air because, with
that early morning sunshine,when it hits the back of your
retinas, actually supports yourcircadian rhythm and it avoids

(12:50):
the afternoon energy slump aswell, which is counterproductive
, so that early morning sunshineshould not be underestimated in
supporting sleep quality.
Other things like I have hygienefactors to help my sleep at
night, so I turn my phone underflight mode an hour before bed

(13:14):
and I switch to my Kindle and Iread my Kindle as part of the
winding down process.
I take supplements likemagnesium and ashwagandha, which
are heavily researched forlowering stress levels,
supporting the nervous systemand supporting sleep.
I do other things like I use aneye mask, I use white noise to

(13:36):
help block out distractions, andthen, from a nutrition
perspective, I consume foodsthat are rich in tryptophan.
So tryptophan is the amino acidthat your brain uses to create
serotonin, which works inconjunction with melatonin,
which is our sleep hormone, andso those are the foods that I

(13:58):
mentioned earlier around cottagecheese, chicken seeds, eggs,
legumes, bananas.
All of those wonderful thingsactually help improve your sleep
quality.

Lee Stevens (14:11):
So it's good to hear that I'm actually doing a
lot of good stuff, especiallythe sleeping with the Kindle
100%.
So, yeah, phone goes on, do notdo stirb, actually even setting
it on through the iPhonesettings.
Right, you can do that now, andso you don't actually have to
manually do that right.
So, big, big believer inremoving distractions and things
, those alerts and thosevibrations.
It just drives you mad and youcan't really sleep if that's

(14:35):
happening.
But one big thing I've alsofound that, adding to that, that
little process she's talkingabout was actually not reading
any real life stuff, so onlyreading fiction.
So the most fiction the better.
So the more sci-fi, the moreunrealistic the better.
And, like you know, some days,some nights, I'll read one page
and I'll be out like a light,but sometimes it's, you know,

(14:58):
it's 10, maybe 15.
But the minute you, if you, wasreading a business book, I
found your brain's active right.
So you're going oh, how could Iput that into my world and how
could I use that in the podcast,or how could I go and try and
win more clients by doing that?
And so you know, about twoyears ago I just made a
conversation and I thought let'sjust give it a go and that's
just worked amazing.
So, yeah, definitely a goodlittle tip there for anyone

(15:19):
listening.

Cailie Ford (15:20):
I am right there with you.
I completely agree.
I did the same thing for solong.
Because I was studying for solong, it feels like I was always
researching, reading whitepapers and, you know, just
trying to enhance my nutritionknowledge.
And then also in the changemanagement space, you know,

(15:42):
behavioral change.
All of that's always absorbing,absorbing, absorbing.
And at a certain point I madethe conscious decision as well
that I thought hold on, I can'tbe doing this before bed,
because there is just so muchbenefit of completely switching
your brain off and just allowingit to relax and using reading

(16:05):
as total escapism.

Lee Stevens (16:06):
Yeah, yeah, I thought that was out there.
It's just very, very noticeable,noticeably different to your
sleep, because you say yourbrain wasn't active.
So some really good tips there.
So I appreciate the info there.
So, as I mentioned to youbefore we came on air, a lot of
business executives listen tothis show, a lot of people in
technology and you know intechnology it's quite fast

(16:31):
moving, lots of meetings, etc.
So one of the things I get oftenasked all the time is around
finding time to eat healthilyand even more so and everyone
will be kind of shaking theirhead when I say this when you go
to workshops or you go toseminars and so there's always
the nice big buffet at the backwith the nice sausage rolls and
the pies and sometimes it'shealthy options.

(16:52):
But what would be some of thetips that you'd give there, and
especially in the, certainly forsome of those technology
executives that we live suchbusy lives that how can you,
yeah, do you know what some ofthe tips you can give to avoid
those pie pitfalls or so-calledSure, typically what I find a
lot of my clients who strugglewith the snackiness, whether

(17:13):
they're traveling with work orat conferences or whatever it
may be long work, meetings, offsites everything you've just
described is I find people justaren't eating enough.

Cailie Ford (17:26):
Now that might seem counterintuitive when we've got
weight issues, a weightepidemic in not only Australia
but around the world, but I findpeople are not eating enough at
certain points of the day andthen that is setting themselves
up for failure in later in theday.
So an example being too manypeople are skipping breakfast.

(17:50):
It is such a common thing thatpeople are running out the door
with maybe a piece of toast inhand or more often than not it's
just coffee and then going intoa day full of meetings or an
off site.
Of course you were going tohave zero willpower with the
buffet at the back of the roomwhen you were just hungry.
You know your body is tellingyou it needs to eat.

Lee Stevens (18:13):
So here's another question, so it's into a rub.
So I've been asked this becauseI'm in this camp.
So what happens when people say, but I don't get hungry, I'm
not hungry until at leastlunchtime?
So yeah, and I'm definitely inthat camp right now I only have
a coffee because I'm notactually hungry.
But what I find is, if I dohave something to eat, I'm
hungry at 12 o'clock.
So maybe that's the bodytelling me something.
But yeah, how do you deal withthat?

Cailie Ford (18:36):
So what I would say totally objectively, just from
a clinical perspective nothaving hunger in the morning is
not a good sign.
So that's an indication thatyour digestive system is not
working as well as what it needsto, because you should wake up
from a fast which is, you know,the yeah, exactly, and so

(18:58):
there's several factors.
Coming back to the alcohol, sowhen there's alcohol consumption
at night, that places pressureon the liver and so it's trying
to get rid of those toxins, andso when your liver is burdened,
then it's not, you know, readyto accept new foods.
And sort of a simplifiedexplanation.

(19:19):
And or it could be, you know,purely habitual, that people
have just kind of, over time,told their body that it's, you
know, not going to be hungry inthe morning.
But what I would encouragebecause our bodies, hormones,
synthesize most abundantly inthe morning, and so to have

(19:43):
regulated hormones and this iseverything from sex hormones,
stress hormones, calminghormones, you know, all that
sort of thing In order tosupport those hormones to be
regulated, feeding them, thebuilding blocks that they need
earlier in the morning, is areally great thing.
So it doesn't have to beanything huge.

(20:04):
So if you haven't been hungryin the morning, I'm not
suggesting sitting down to amassive fried breakfast from the
off, because that is toooverwhelming, but starting with
something that is small andnutrient dense.
So I mentioned earlier, peopleare kind of walking out the door
with a piece of toast in handthat might have Vegemite on it.
A small tweak, which is how Iwork in my private practice is

(20:28):
we do tweak.
So what are you eating now?
Okay, how can we tweak that sothat it's a bit more nutrient
dense, so something that has gothigher protein, higher fiber.
So if it's white bread withVegemite, you could switch that
to wholemeal or sourdough withricotta or cottage cheese on it.

(20:50):
Still, spread takes you justthe same amount of time to do,
but it's much higher in proteinfor you, and so it's going to
set you up a lot better.
Or, another thing that I'm amassive fan of is smoothies.
Smoothies are such an easy wayto get nutrients in and foods
that people wouldn't normallyeat.

(21:11):
I challenge my clients to addat least one type of vegetable
to their smoothies.
Things like cucumber, zucchini,a really also cauliflower.
They don't taste like much, butyou're getting a really quick,
easy vegetable sauce that'scontributing to your five serves
a day and then throwingsomething in there like a

(21:32):
protein powder, so that you'vegot high protein, some fruits
for flavor and healthy fats andfiber.
So seeds are great.
They're also supporting hormoneregulation.
You can get a really wellrounded smoothie that's going to
hit all the nutrients.
That is not a run of the mill,off the shelf, meal replacement

(21:54):
shake.

Lee Stevens (21:57):
What's your views on caffeine in the morning?
So a reason I asked that Ilistened to a really interesting
podcast with a.
I think this guy was like acoffee sommelier or something
along those lines, and he was acoffee expert and the Stephen
Barber.

Cailie Ford (22:09):
What a job title.

Lee Stevens (22:10):
I know, I know, and he, he, he, yeah, so he, that's
all he did.
He went around the world andpicking coffee and you know,
from from different, fromdifferent growers et cetera.
But he was explaining that, acouple of things so that you're.
The first thing is when you youdon't get necessarily addicted
to caffeine, but your bodybuilds up dependency on it.
So that first coffee that weall.

(22:31):
You know, as soon as you wakeup, you know feeling a bit
groggy and tired, that caffeineis going to give you that boost,
but all he sees is doing isit's getting you from minus two
to zero, you know, to get you toto just a level.
And I know there's been quite alot in the last sort of year or
so where people are saying youprobably shouldn't actually have
caffeine for the first twohours after you wake up.
But any strong opinions onwhether that morning brews good

(22:54):
or bad for us.

Cailie Ford (22:55):
I do have.
I've got strong information.
There's not my opinion.
It's what the science says.

Lee Stevens (23:02):
Would like science.

Cailie Ford (23:03):
Yeah.
So I love caffeine.
I have a coffee a day andabsolutely nothing would get in
the way of that.
I'm very married to my coffee.
Now, in saying that the problemslie when people are drinking
caffeine as a meal, so insteadof breakfast.

(23:27):
Because when in the morningyour cortisol is increasing and
your melatonin is decreasingbecause your sleep hormone is
switching off Stress hormone.
You know cortisol gets a badrap.
But when it's just creeping upnaturally, as it does in the
morning, it's a good thing towake you up.
Now you add in caffeine to thatand it spikes cortisol further

(23:53):
than you add more stresses inthe day.
You know you're stuck intraffic on the way to work, you
get to a work meeting.
That's stressful, maybe you'vegot some conflict in the office.
It's just cortisol is on the upand up and up and up and up.
When you've got chronic,chronically high levels of
cortisol it has aneuroinflammatory effect on

(24:15):
parts of your brain that areresponsible for your executive
functions, like decision-making.
You know remaining calm onimpulse control, all that sort
of thing.
So it's problematic when youadd food.
Food blunts the cortisolresponse and so really helps

(24:37):
calm things down.
So caffeine without food firstthing in the morning is
problematic.
It also has been shown that whenyou drink it within the first
two hours that it contributes tothe afternoon energy slump
around 3 pm.
So you know, I know people areusing that caffeine in the

(25:00):
morning to wake them up.
You set it perfectly.
It's not actually giving you anenergy boost, it's just
bringing you from minus two tozero.
So people think that it'sgiving them this peak, but it's
actually not.
It just brings you to the samelevel that you could be if you
got slightly better sleep.
And then the downshot of thatis when you're having that

(25:22):
within the first two hours, thenit's contributing to the energy
slump.
What do you do?
At 3 pm you go for anothercoffee and so it's this vicious
cycle.
And then caffeine after 2 pmthen can contribute to sleep
problems.
You're waking up tired, yougrab for that coffee again, so
the cycle begins.
So I have a few recommendationsaround caffeine for my clients

(25:48):
is to delay it.
So after that sort of 90minutes to two hours after
waking up, eat food first andthen really enjoy your coffee.
Don't drink it on the run, youknow, running to a train or a
ferry or whatever it may be.
Really make it a moment, sitdown mid-morning and use it as

(26:10):
an opportunity to have a breakin a day, because those small
breaks have been shown even just10 minutes, to reset the
nervous system and contribute tooverall increased productivity,
so can be really reallyvaluable.
And also, it's not one toestimate the rituals, so my

(26:32):
mid-morning coffee is part of aritual that makes me feel better
overall and so, like I wassaying earlier, I'm not about
robbing people of their fun andjoy, but how can we kind of
tweak and massage things so thatthey are helping your wellbeing
, not hindering it?

Lee Stevens (26:54):
Really good advice and I think that two hour one
comes up quite a lot right.
So I think you know if you can.
If you can it's interestingyou've said again about the
breakfast.
So definitely some food to talkfor myself personally, because
my wife will be listening to usand she'll be over me, because
she's always been having a gummybet night eating breakfast.
But that, as well as the coffee, I'm sure you've got a fan for

(27:14):
life there, so okay.
So on the note of, as you saidabout the things that we put in
throughout the day and thatafternoon slump that we all get
in the corporate world,Certainly a lot of people that
work in technology that will belistening.
We hear about the carb slump aswell.
Right, so when you're gonna havea big lunch whether it's pasta

(27:38):
or some potatoes, et cetera atlunchtime and you need a little
nanonap there after that, right,and so that happens, right.
But I guess, once again, thescience and everything I've read
about carbs is balance.
So you know, taking it outcompletely is not right, and you
know.
But at the same time, if youoverdo it, then you know, then

(28:00):
there's gonna be an effect there.
So what's your opinion on thecarbs that everyone keeps
talking about time and timeagain?

Cailie Ford (28:08):
Yeah, so carbs have just been given such a bad rap
that they've made the enemy, butthey are not.
Just like.
There is no such thing as asuperfood, microp, food truth
bomb.
There isn't a superfood.
All fruits and vegetables aresuperfood.
They're all amazing in theirown right.

(28:31):
That's a fact.
And then there is no such thingas this one villain like carbs
or gluten or whatever it may bethe problem.
And when you know, typicallypeople have a problem with when
they've gained weight, theycan't lose it.
So, talking about weight lossand energy, it's a problem with

(28:55):
overconsumption of calories.
Overall, it's not just onenutrient.
So with carbohydrates, peoplethink when they think carbs,
they think cakes, biscuits, youknow that sort of thing.
But carbohydrates are alsothings like whole grains and
rice and pumpkin and sweetpotato, which are incredibly

(29:17):
nutritious.
It's also pears, apples,raspberries.
You know those are all forms ofcarbohydrates as well.
Now there is a big differencebetween complex carbohydrates,
which is fruits and vegetables,and whole grains, and simple
carbohydrates, which are cakes,biscuits, lollies, you know that
sort of thing, because theycontribute to a spike in blood

(29:40):
sugar.
Now blood sugar regulation hasgot so much to answer for when
it comes to productivity andmanaging energy overall.
Because what happens when yourblood sugar is low?
So if you haven't eaten for along period of time, your body
actually releases cortisol.
So that's that stress hormonepopping up again, and then that

(30:05):
can contribute to feelings ofanxiety.
Or anyone who is familiar withhangariness, you know you get
that agitation, that irritation,and then your executive
functions are impaired.
You know you're not thinkingclearly.
How could you possibly focusproperly?
But then, conversely, when youoverread on carbohydrates, and

(30:27):
whether they are simple orcomplex carbohydrates, your
blood sugar goes high and thatresults in decreased fat burning
because you've got more energythan the body needs, and then
you experience brain fog andmood swings.
So it's those kind of twoopposite ends of the spectrum

(30:48):
that are really problematic.
And so, where we can, lookingto stabilize that blood sugar,
and so not eliminatingcarbohydrates completely
absolutely not, becausecarbohydrates will always be
your brain's preferred source ofenergy.
That's a fact, and so it'sreally important to know that,

(31:11):
that they are incredibly useful.
But portion control is a reallykey thing.

Lee Stevens (31:20):
In what way?

Cailie Ford (31:21):
So the simplest thing, because I don't I know
some nutritionist dietitiansthey work heavily with you know
weighing food and that sort oflevel of detail.
I don't find that that'shelpful for my clients.
What I prefer to focus on is abalanced plate and so that
visual representation ofmanaging your portions by

(31:43):
looking at the plate does myprotein.
So, whether that is an animalprotein, like meat or fish, or a
plant protein like lentils ortofu or something like that,
that should take up a quarter ofthe plate.
A quarter of the plate shouldbe a starch, so some sort of

(32:04):
carbohydrate, whether it be rice, pasta, potato, sweet potato,
you know some form of starch.
And then half of the plateshould be non-starchy veg.
And so what is that?
That's all of your leafy,colorful veggies like broccoli,
kale, spinach, capsicums,zucchini, onion, cucumber, you

(32:32):
know all of the brightly coloredveg should cover half of your
plate.
And so that kind of portioncontrol and this is where you
don't need to eliminatecarbohydrates.
But typically what I see isthat clients, if they sit down
to a meal, the rice will be mostof the plate, there'll be a
little bit of, say, a curry or astir fry on top and then, or if

(32:54):
it was like a steak and potato.
There's mainly potato, a bit ofsteak and then a tiny little
side salad.
It's just the balance ofmacronutrients is off, and when
we refocus, rebalance thosenutrients, people see vast
improvements in energy Back tothe balance?

Lee Stevens (33:12):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Yeah, what's the?
I always wonder this becausethere's so much information now
on TV, on podcasts and radio, etcetera.
But obviously you know when youget time to chill out and
you're sitting there and you'rewatching your Netflix or TV at
home and you see these subjectspop up time and time again.
Is there any kind of myths orkind of things at the moment

(33:33):
that are in the news that you go, oh, that's so wrong.
Why do they keep saying that?
So what's the?
Anything that kind of grindsyour gears a little bit that's
been spoken about in the currentclimate.

Cailie Ford (33:44):
It's the carbs, you know that just is such an
enduring thing, because or anyelimination of any food group
for no reason, you know there's.
And influencers social mediainfluencers who have no
qualifications, are a real ickof mine because they will be

(34:04):
promoting some sort of fatburning supplement which,
spoiler alert there is just nosuch thing.
The only way to burn fat is bycreating more muscle and being
at a calorie deficit.
So save your money on the fatburners or the pre-workouts or

(34:26):
anything like that.
But yeah, this promotion ofeliminating gluten or
carbohydrates or not eatingwhite potatoes, only eating
sweet potatoes, is utterlyridiculous, because both types
of potatoes, with that example,are super nutritious.
The only major difference isthe vitamin A component which

(34:51):
gives the sweet potato theorange kind of color, the
carotenoids in it.
That's the only real majordifference.
You know they're bothnutritious vegetables.

Lee Stevens (35:02):
So the Tim Ferriss slow carbs thing.
So I did that a few times.
Oh yeah, and I guess it goesback to what you said earlier,
that ultimately, what it wasprobably doing was reducing your
calorie intake.
But his slow carb diet wasbased that you had, like beans
and not baked beans, noprocessed food.
You could have as much of thatstuff, certain types of food as

(35:25):
you wanted, protein, but nosugars for six days of the week,
and then one day you could havea cheat day, right.
So you could go, because yourbody needs to reset and it will
start having a negative effectif you don't have those things.
But that worked for me, right,and so Dostar, quite a few KGs,
but, as my wife keeps on saying,well, you're reducing your
calories.
That's why you know it's notbecause you're not the things

(35:47):
that you're eating.
You can have as much as youlike, because they don't really
count.
So, like things like tuna andcertain proteins and egg tops,
lots of scrambled eggs, right,and so with no milk, but I guess
that constitutes as a fad dietas well, right?
So once again, what's yourthoughts on some of these things
?
We actually can see wherethat's going.
It sort of makes sense, butthey've just put a different

(36:07):
label on it and you kind ofyou're a fan of the diets that
are sometimes coming to fruition.

Cailie Ford (36:13):
Look, I will give you a little secret insight into
the diet industry.
What any of the fad diets don'twant you to know and you just
identified it yourself Is that,whether it is fasting,
time-restricted eating, paleo,carnivore, vegan, whatever label

(36:34):
you want to give it and I'm notnecessarily saying vegan is a
fad diet, but it can be amechanism that people use to
achieve weight loss.
So please don't come at mevegans, but it all boils down to
a reduction in calories.
Now, the way they do that isbecause, typically, when you

(36:57):
look at what any of those dietseliminate is processed foods and
well, mostly processed foods ora reduction in refined
carbohydrates.
And so because we as a societyand a global community at large
have got an issue withoverconsumption of refined

(37:21):
carbohydrates, that is whattypically results in the weight
loss.
And similarly with the fasting,there is nothing magic about
fasting.
What it does is just it'sanother vehicle to create a
calorie deficit and it's not onethat I recommend to my clients.
The way I focus my nutritionalapproach for people, like I said

(37:47):
earlier, is around what can weadd in that's nutrient dense?
It's going to keep you satiatedand happy, not declining social
invitations because you thinkoh no, I'm not going to be able
to eat XYZ at dinner or, oh no,I'm not eating in that window.
How sad to be living your life,that your social connections

(38:11):
are restricted because of a dietthat you're on.
That honestly breaks my heart.
There is a better and easierway to do it that doesn't
involve starving yourself forlarge parts of the day.

Lee Stevens (38:25):
Jamie Oliver a few years ago had these campaign
schools where I don't know ifthis was disappeared in
Australia, but in the UK wherehe had this series, where he
went into the UK schools and hewas trying to, since he, combat
obesity and make kids makebetter choices in the schools
and the long and short it was.
You know, after six episodes,eight episodes, kids still like

(38:48):
eating fish and chips andburgers, right and so, and
interesting, that was probablycoming up to about 20 years ago.
That first came out and my wifekind of went and helped out the
local school recently in thetuck shop and dinner's et cetera
and she says her heart kind ofbled as well.
But just seeing that nothing'schanged in 20 years.

(39:09):
So what's the answer to, Iguess, some of the obesity and
some of the health challengeswe've got in modern day and how
do we educate our childrenbetter to make healthy choices
and the right choices really?

Cailie Ford (39:26):
Look, I'm not professing that I have all the
answers, but role modeling issuch a huge one and a lot of the
clients that I help you know mytypical profile for a client is
overworked, overstressedprofessionals who have got kids,
and you know everyone isstruggling, their time poor,

(39:50):
they are stressed and maxed andthey're finding it really
difficult to know what to feedtheir family.
They want to do the best thingfor their family but they're
falling back on, you know, theeasy, quick options, the beige
diet.
So in my experience, children,when they're exposed to a wide

(40:15):
variety of foods and that is inthe sense of you know color,
texture, all that sorts of thingearly on, it has a positive
impact on their nutrition longterm.
And when they see their parentseating a whole foods mostly

(40:36):
diet it has a positive impact.
Other things that have beenshown through research have a
positive impact is eatingtogether as a family, so that it
is this cultural thing thateating is for pleasure and for
connection, not parents standingover their kids putting the

(40:56):
pressure on going eat that, eatthat.
If you don't eat that you'renot getting X, you know, instead
just making it a pleasurableexperience.
The other thing is around that,still that balanced approach.
So do I feed my kids chickennuggets?
Absolutely I do, but there is abalance.
So and chicken nuggets I haveparents that come to me who are

(41:20):
guilty about that and I think,oh my God, it's protein, it's
totally fine.
The key is if they're beingserved, say, chicken nuggets and
chips with no color on theplate.
So a concept that I talk toclients a lot about is always
making sure you have color onthe plate.
So I am a huge proponent ofplatters for kids and for adults

(41:43):
of all ages.
It's such an easy thing andkids go wild for it because it
supports autonomy, so thatyou're not telling them and
you're not placing it on theirplate and telling them how much
they need to eat.
But you put a platter in themiddle of the table.
You have control over what goeson it.
As the adult, you decide whatto serve, they decide what to

(42:06):
eat, and so there is always avariety of chopped, fresh and
steamed veg.
There's nuts.
I always like to put fruit onthere because the kids think
it's such a treat to have fruitat dinner time All sorts of
things.
Don't underestimate kidsability to pick up.
I always have a pot of blackbeans or cannellini beans or

(42:27):
kidney beans, all that sort ofstuff, nuts, seeds, seaweed,
yogurt dips, all that sort ofstuff that create this sensory
pleasure for kids when they lookat it.
And parents consistently come tome over the moon with what
their kids eat on a platternight versus what they shove

(42:49):
away on the nights when food hasbeen presented to them.
So that would be those sort ofkey tips around eating with your
kids where possible.
I understand it's not alwayspossible, but where possible,
family meals, role modeling whatyou're eating.
So another thing is whenwhoever cooks the meals whether

(43:12):
it's the dad or the mum orwhatever the situation is at
home is having some just readyto go chopped veg that as you're
standing and chatting andcooking that, those are the
things that you're grabbing for,because the brain doesn't like
to think unnecessarily aboutthings, and so where you remove

(43:33):
that friction, it's like oh,there's food here, I will eat
that, versus going and grabbinga packet of salt and vinegar
chips or something like that.

Lee Stevens (43:43):
Yeah, okay, I have to ask because there's been a
couple of comedy sketches onthis as well.
Air Fryers, so I love my airfryer, I got on it.
Oh same A change man.
And basically there's a comedysketch where the guy pretty much
says that the birth of hisfirstborn wasn't a pattern when

(44:03):
the day bought his air fryer,right.
But I guess, on a serious note,how we cook things and like I
look at that and I go, well,it's not fried, it's all the
fat's going and dripping away,that must be a little bit better
for how we cook things.
But is there any kind ofnutritional value in you know

(44:25):
somebody's new tools?

Cailie Ford (44:26):
Look, I love my air fryer.
I am absolutely with you.
It is so convenient.
I did boiled eggs in my airfryer yesterday.
There is nothing that I can'tdo.
There we go.

Lee Stevens (44:43):
So you see, I don't need to do any more podcasts.
I've got it there from theexpert Air Fryers of the future.

Cailie Ford (44:49):
There we go, yeah but stick with me for a moment.
And yes, absolutely you can.
You can do roast veggies inyour air fry.
You can do everything in it,nothing you can't do.
So yes, and absolutely, it isso much better, exponentially
better, than frying something ordeep frying something.

(45:09):
You know the fact that they'vetaken the place of deep fries.
Thank God for that, becauseoils go rancid.

Lee Stevens (45:15):
It is horrific to think about those deep fries,
yeah, especially when you cleanthem out as well.
Even an air fryer, when youknow you cook some stuff in
there and you clean out the end,you go oh, all of that would
have actually been in the foodif it hadn't, you know, drained
away.

Cailie Ford (45:30):
So so, yeah, that's interesting, yeah they are
amazing the thing for vegetables.
So getting my nutritional nerdhat on.
So, when all of the differentcooking methods have been
assessed for what retains themost nutrients in food, boiling

(45:52):
is a bit of a nightmare forveggies because all the
nutrients lead to it.

Lee Stevens (45:56):
Blast it away, yeah .

Cailie Ford (45:58):
Into the water.
Yeah, exactly Roasting.
I've roast a lot of veggies andyou know it still retains
nutrients.
Everything is actually the bestfor retaining nutrients in
veggies and not the way Englishparents used to stream food.
My husband is English and.
I remember his mum.

(46:19):
She gave me for this Maureen,but she put some vegetables on
at the same time as the Sundayroast goes on.
My name does it still?
Oh, good Lord.

Lee Stevens (46:29):
There's a hint of cauliflower to the taste when
you've put the and it goes tomuch better.

Cailie Ford (46:33):
So it's that, and you know that is that's
heartbreaking for me as well,because it's ruined vegetables
for an entire generation ofpeople and so steaming for sort
of under that 10 minute mark ofthings.
So it's still colorful, stillcrunchy to a degree.
You know that is important aswell.
But coming back to my logical,just really I don't know,

(47:00):
accepting way with nutrition,any vegetable or fruit is better
than no vegetable or fruit.
I get questions a lot aroundshould I buy organic or
non-organic?
Any vegetable is better than novegetable.
And so however you like to haveyour veggies, do that, because

(47:20):
you know I'd prefer that peopleare getting them in some way
than not at all.

Lee Stevens (47:24):
You mentioned there's no like super food, but
is there any like super veggiesthat we all need more in our
lives?

Cailie Ford (47:30):
I'm so glad you asked.
Well, I love that there's beenthis movement towards going back
to basics of sustainability andeating seasonally.
You know that kind ofhistorical knowledge, because
when veggies are fresh, they'vegot active enzymes in them,

(47:53):
which are compounds thatactually help you break down
foods and absorb the nutrientsfrom other foods.
So, rather than if somethinghas been flown in from across
the world, refrigerated for sixmonths and then put on
supermarket shelves, so freshand seasonal produce is
incredible.
I'm a proud ambassador for goodand fugly, so there are social

(48:18):
enterprise that rescue imperfectproduce from the farms and
deliver it directly to your door.
I think it is such an incredibleinitiative.
It aligns beautifully with mycountry gal background because I
hate wastage and want to have apositive impact on the earth.
So fresh produce would be agreat start.

(48:40):
So using a fruit and veg boxdelivery like that, or going to
your local farmers markets is agreat place to start.
But certainly eating seasonally, because what your gut loves is
variety of fiber.
So not getting stuck in eatingthe same.
You know if you have berries onyour musli in the morning, for

(49:01):
example, it's good, that's great.
But try and vary it day to dayand season to season, because
your gut loves that.
Not eating the same broccoli,carrots, zucchini with your
dinners, but shifting, you know,trying asparagus, beetroot.
You know, going whenever you goto a farmer's market or the

(49:23):
supermarket, picking one thingthat you haven't tried before,
haven't tried for a while tochange things up that would be
my advice.
And eating for color.
So you don't need to overthinkabout, you know to your point,
superfoods and the nutrients,just aiming for color, because

(49:43):
that is going to flood your bodywith nutrients all year round.

Lee Stevens (49:48):
Debate beans count as color.

Cailie Ford (49:50):
Sure, well, they're a fiber, they're a protein,
yeah.

Lee Stevens (49:54):
Okay, so really good information for what we can
do as parents, what we can doas individuals.
So let's move it back to you interms of how you help
businesses.
So if we took a typicalorganization, in terms of the
clients that you work with, howare you helping those
organizations and what does youknow someone like yourself

(50:16):
getting involved with thatbusiness look like.

Cailie Ford (50:19):
So I work with organizations across the globe
and across lots of differentindustries recruitment,
consulting, governmentindustries, a whole range and
the way I've been involved hasbeen, I guess, individual to the
organization.

(50:39):
I have been engaged to dointensive nutritional awareness
workshops where I over, say, atwo-month period, I've delivered
fortnightly workshops and so itfollows a series so that people
are kind of gaining thisnutritional knowledge along the
way and at the end we assess howthat has impacted their health

(51:04):
and wellbeing for the better.
Another organization that I'veworked with for a number of
years now I do quarterlyworkshops for them, and so it's
on a range of wellbeing topicsthat affect people in the
workplace and beyond.
So everything from the gut,brain connection, immune health,

(51:26):
the women's hormone, health,sleep, you know a whole range of
topics.
And the way I supportorganizations on a more
individual level is, yes, I havemy suite of workshops, but I
very much personalize it totheir organizational audience

(51:48):
and context so that it's reallymeaningful for the people that
are getting the information, andI always ensure that there is
practical strategies that peoplecan employ from today so that
they're taking stuff away youknow, it's not just an
information download but how canthey apply it to their busy

(52:10):
lives in really sustainable ways.

Lee Stevens (52:14):
Ben, slightly facetious here.
Do you think there's a viewthat happier, healthier
employees are more productiveand that's why organizations are
doing it?

Cailie Ford (52:28):
Sure, I mean, it makes business sense to have
healthier employees because theyare more engaged, they are
happier, they will stick aroundlonger.
I don't think that that makesit sort of an underhanded move
or something from a corporate todo it.
I think it's incredible and theway that the more organisations

(52:50):
can offer these kind ofservices and resources to people
do enjoy greater retention,greater productivity, greater
outcomes.
You know, just from poor sleepalone, we know that 50% of
Australians are underslept and70% of those people report that

(53:12):
it regularly impairs their dailyactivities.
And then, from a businessperspective, that there is 11
and a half days per employee peryear of productivity lost due
to poor sleep.
So yeah, so there is a tangiblebusiness benefit to looking

(53:38):
after your employees health andwellbeing.

Lee Stevens (53:43):
I'm going to focus on one lad I had working for me,
working with me, a couple ofyears ago, and so he was
probably mid-20s and I wish Ihad known you then, because I
was on the hunt for someone tocome in and help educate and
inspire some of my colleagues,and it did make me laugh.

(54:04):
I'm not going to name him, buthe'll know who he is if he's
listened to us.
And so what would happen isthat we would have these really
good.
So he was a rising star, right,he was technology wise, he was
brilliant, brilliant attitude,everything you want from a
colleague and from someone thatyou work with, right.
But then he'd come back fromlunch.

(54:24):
He said we had for lunchanother kebab, we had for lunch
on chips and gravy, and his dietwas just awful.
And now I guess the questionI've got in a dilemma is that
was he not performing?
No, he wasn't, he was stillperforming.
Was he horrible?
And was he sleeping?
No, he slept quite well.

(54:45):
He was a gamer and so he didall that.
So there was this horriblefeeling inside him.
Is that he was saying his dietwasn't affecting his output and
his productivity and his health,which he probably wasn't at 25.
But I was saying to him if youkeep on eating like that, by the
time you get to 30, you'regoing to be dead, or all these

(55:06):
big, big, bold statements.
But I guess, how do you dealwith people like that who I
guess it's not the old classicoh, my granddad smoked till he
was 94 and had a kebab forbreakfast every day, or
something like that and thesausage sandwich.
But how do you deal with thenaysayers who kind of fire those
examples at you?

Cailie Ford (55:25):
And I'm not going to mention this lad's name, but
by all accounts he was rightbecause he wasn't not performing
, but any views on it, yes, yeah, I mean I think it is tough to
judge at the age of 25, becausedid I pull some really late
nights in my early 20s and havea 3am finish and roll into work

(55:47):
ready to work a day from 8am?
Yes, I did.
Could I do that now?
Absolutely not.
Not with three kids, exactly,good lord.
And so actually a client that Iwas talking to this morning who
is a leader of an internationalbusiness, and she's come to me

(56:10):
because she is stressed, shewants to lose weight, she wants
to have more energy, and she wassaying you know, these stresses
are not new.
I've been the head of thiscompany for a long time, so I
just don't know why it'saffecting me in different ways.
And I was saying because you'reolder than what you were before
and things are happening in ourbody.
You know.
We know that things like musclemass decreases if you're not

(56:34):
consciously retaining musclemass as we age.
Cognitive performance declinesif you're not proactively
protecting that.
You know stresses increase.
All these sorts of factors arehappening as we age.
And not to be doom and gloom,because there are so many
protective factors that you canput into place and as well, I

(56:58):
would challenge that around the,you know not performing, and he
was seemingly sleeping well andall that sort of stuff.
Typically for people it mightlook like they are performing at
their best, but in myexperience people don't even
know they've either lost sightbecause they haven't experienced

(57:19):
a long time or they've neverknown just how good great can
feel, because if you don't havea point of comparison, you know,
if you've never eaten manyveggies, you never drank much
water, and you think, oh, I'mfine, this was the problem.
But then, when you start toconsciously improve your health

(57:43):
and well-being, the rewards areboundless.
Because, like I said at thestart, just as your body needs
those building blocks of energyfrom the food in order to
perform, so does our brain, andso, once you start feeding at
the building blocks that itwants and needs, I challenge

(58:07):
anyone to not see a profoundimprovement in their health and
well-being.

Lee Stevens (58:12):
In a world where there's too much information and
we're all a bit overwhelmedwith your organization, or a
high performing individual thatwants to be better high
performing or more highperforming, what advice would
you give to them before engagingsomeone like yourself?

Cailie Ford (58:29):
Yes, you're absolutely right.
We have been overwhelmed withinformation.
People have Dr Googledthemselves into this paralysis
by analysis.
It's keeping it simple.
So the number one step that Iwould take as an individual, is
focus on breakfast.
Just see the improvement thatyou can experience by focusing

(58:55):
on breakfast that has is rich inprotein and fiber, so that you
are setting yourself up for aregulated blood sugar throughout
the day, that you've gotsustained energy so that you'll
calm.
You're not hungry.
You're supporting these calmingneurotransmitters.
Starting with breakfast.

(59:16):
The second thing would be sleep.
Protect your sleep, like yourlife depends on it, because it
does.
So.
Don't overlook sleep and justthink, oh, I've always slept
badly, that's who I am.
No, I don't accept that.
There are so many things thatyou can do to protect your sleep
, and I shared a number ofhygiene factors that really help

(59:39):
with sleep.
It's been shown that even just45 minutes of doom scrolling on
the phone negatively impactssleep, contributes to insomnia.
Now who spends just 45 minuteson their phone?
So having firm boundaries and areally meaningful and
purposeful approach to deviceusage is a really good start as

(01:00:03):
well.
The other thing is around dailymovement.
Movement should be acelebration of what your body is
capable of doing, not apunishment for what you ate.
And, as you know, I make mykids.
We walk to school and myyoungest will say to me oh my
Lin, this hurley, come on.

(01:00:24):
And I say it is a privilege tohave legs and arms move.
Your body was made to move.
Your body was not made to sitfor long periods.
So celebrate your body bymoving it every day, to thank it
for the good work that it cando, and in a way that feels good
for you.
You don't have to jump on atreadmill or you don't have to

(01:00:47):
run 10 kilometers, you know.
If you're not in your runningera, fine.
Move your body in a way thatfeels good for you.
And so by moving your body,eating breakfast and protecting
your sleep profound differences.

Lee Stevens (01:01:02):
So I think it's dawned on me that Listen to you
there speak, which I wonder ifthere was any any substance in
Was, for example, when we dopersonally profiles I'm sure
everyone's done my, as Briggs,and you know the disc profiles
which I'm sure you've met across, where you're certain type of
extra introvert and, yeah, I wason site at a client last week,

(01:01:25):
interesting, and they weretalking about it because it all
had their disc profiles and itwas just really interesting
seeing People, like you know,talk about animated, about what
they were and they are not inthere personally was there was
more essence and and you know,but just sitting there as an
outside of, what was reallyinteresting was it was creating

(01:01:46):
a unifying language.
So you know about what and whenpeople spoke about the
productivity or the personalityprofiles, that there was a
common language, that they allspoke around you, around those
things, and just wondering, didyou, could you see any value in
that for an organizationadopting that?
You know?
So if we were to say we'regonna do a happiness or well

(01:02:06):
being program and if we're alldoing at the same time, you know
you're more likely to likeexercise, right.
So if you exercise more, liketo exercise, more so if you seen
any any you know any trendslike that where organizations do
it, and you see that commonlanguage framework really Breed
success.

Cailie Ford (01:02:22):
I think it's huge, like with anything, you know
we're tribal creatures, aren'twe?
And so wherever there can bethat consistent language and
have that collective, and it isincredibly powerful and, like
with so many things, that we seesome of the behaviors in an
organization and it's a top downapproach.

(01:02:46):
We know that Leaders who say,oh, I'm okay with you guys
leaving early, or yes, youshould definitely take a sick
day if you're not feeling well,but if they are not role
modeling those behaviors, thenthe teams do not feel empowered
to perform those behaviors.
And so the same can be said forwell being.

(01:03:08):
It needs to be role modeled anddemonstrated from the top end.
A strategic approach where it'snot just ad hoc you know
webinars here and there but it'swoven into the fabric of an
organization.
And actually I was speaking to anew client today, just before

(01:03:32):
this podcast, around the benefitof, rather than just one off
workshops.
But in order to see the changewithin the organization, it
needs to be a continual thing,because we know that people are
inherently resistant to change.
And it's a bit like, you know,if you go to a one day
conference and you get soinspired by the ideas and the

(01:03:55):
thinkers, you think this isamazing.
I'm gonna be an absolute gun atthis.
Whatever new thing that youlearn, and then what happens in
the days and the weeks and themonths after that?
It's not enough to enact thatchange.
And so Organizations absolutely,there are well being strategies

(01:04:19):
are plenty these days, feworganizations.
It's a bit like the hybrid workapproach for organizations
Doing it well, and there's kindof too much in the well being
space of Telling people whatthey're getting rather than
asking people what they need,and I think there's so much
power in that.

(01:04:39):
It's a bit like, you know, the,the gym membership or the yoga
classes that were so prevalentin.
It doesn't suit everyone, andso it's about that purposeful
and sort of individually leadapproach to well being that has

(01:05:02):
the greatest success.

Lee Stevens (01:05:04):
What's some of the best tech that you've seen
recently to tell us all thisstuff?

Cailie Ford (01:05:12):
I hate to chat to.
You have fabulous.
So in terms of from ideasgeneration from my business, is
that the perspective that you'reasking, or I was a nutrition it
was completely open.

Lee Stevens (01:05:30):
I just wondered because we hear about everything
right and so.
So all I had there straightaway when you said that was how
I can help you, but a nutrition,there we go.
That's my headline straightaway.

Cailie Ford (01:05:42):
Well, no, actually in that title contrast that.
So I love to check to be from abusiness perspective and ideas
generation, market mapping, thatkind of thing.
It is and it's a great pointI'm glad you raised it that it
is really problematic for theaverage person to kind of

(01:06:05):
research nutrition informationon chat, gpt, because I have
tested it numerous times withresearching certain topics as if
I was, you know, the averageperson without a nutritional
medicine degree.
It's really problematic becausethere's a lot of information
that I see in there.
I think all that's not right,yeah yeah, not just not quite

(01:06:28):
right, but absolutely wrong yeahand so to be able to have the
educated I Look for in terms ofbenefiting people, tech there's,
you know, there's the aura ring, which is like the evolved fit
bit, that sort of thing that theaura ring has got pretty good

(01:06:49):
algorithm for Sleep feedback.
I'm a little bit apprehensiveon relying on a device telling
you how your sleep was.

Lee Stevens (01:07:04):
It's gonna be your biggest fan after this, this
episode, until you know.
It just sounds like melistening to her and I'm not
sure.
Yet you're coming out with allthis scientific facts that backs
it up, or at least.
Now she's just gonna be liketold you, so yeah, yeah exactly
so.

Cailie Ford (01:07:20):
It's not.
The research shows is that thealgorithms for knowing step
count are pretty good, yeah, butin terms of sleep and the
problem with it is Is that youwake up anything I feel pretty
good, I was gonna say, and thenyou look at me, what?
I didn't have any deep sleeplast night, exactly exactly all

(01:07:44):
you think I'm going, lord, I'mso tired, and then they go Good,
and you're okay.
I must be okay, but you'reactually not so.
Relying too much on tech can beproblematic, but from a step
count perspective, I find it isreally useful from a goal
setting For people, just interms of keeping a healthy trend

(01:08:08):
going, because it's feedbackright.
Yeah, you know, it's not justletting it all go into the ether
, but knowing that if you'reconsistently sticking to
whatever step count works foryou and there Another spoiler
alert there is no magic numberwhatever works for an individual
is just keeping consistent with.
That is great for staying ontrack with that healthy habits.

Lee Stevens (01:08:32):
I changed my watch face the other day actually, and
it the watch face it has.
It shows you the last sevendays and then it's show you if
it's all blue, it means you'vehit your step target.
So I think one was about seventhousand is a minimum, so and if
it's green, and then it showsyou the tank that's half empty.
But as you say, look at, okay,we had a big day, big big week.

(01:08:54):
You know, maybe missed out oneweek, so but if I miss that one
day, that's fine.
But if I've missed, like,looking at now I'm gonna I have
to get for walk, I think it's abit of a two days in a row.
But that's what you're talkingabout, right?
It's just that.

Cailie Ford (01:09:10):
Another great thing and company that I have been
involved with is a biotechcompany called drop bio, and
what they have been working tobring to the market is an at
home blood test kit, which isincredible in terms of bringing

(01:09:32):
it into the home of the averageperson, that you do the blood
test and then send it off totheir labs and then the feedback
that you get.
It assesses so many differentinflammatory markers and the
intention is it's proactiveHealth support so that it can

(01:09:55):
look at a range of inflammatorymarkers that are related to, you
know, sleep quality, stress,got health, all these sorts of
things.
So I think things like that arereally promising, really
exciting For putting the powerinto people's hands to be more
proactive with their well being,not waiting for issues to begin

(01:10:18):
, but getting ahead of the curve.

Lee Stevens (01:10:22):
Great advice and, yeah, great tips.
I think that really resonateswith my thoughts around how
we've taken so how can we beproductive?
But I think it goes back tobeing overkill, sometimes as
well.
You know, you've been to me in.
There's one guy around me justlook like Robo cop, because he
had a device and a sensors foreverything and he just look
miserable.

(01:10:43):
Still is a working, so there isa balance is a balance is
definitely the theme of today'sshow.
Right as we bring the sessionto an end, the question I ask
everyone and is and that is, ifyou could go back and give 21

(01:11:03):
year old Kay Lee some advice,what would that be?

Cailie Ford (01:11:13):
A Home site is a beautiful thing, is that and the
wisdom that comes with age?
Look in a nutshell the advicethat I would give my 21 year old
self would be don't wait.
I knew I had this desire andthis interest in health and well

(01:11:34):
being from an early age, butgot stuck, you know, not knowing
what to do, and then, like Isaid earlier, ended up
absolutely running myself intothe ground trying to do it, and
whilst having children andbreastfeeding, up the back of
lectures and all the things.

(01:11:56):
Character building.
Not recommended, though, and somy advice would be just go for
it.
If you have a desire and apassion for something, or at any
age, life is short, just go forit.
What's the worst that couldhappen?

Lee Stevens (01:12:13):
Great advice.
Love it.
So, kay Lee, if we, so I'mgonna edit that out.
So, kay Lee, if anyone wants toget hold of you and maybe wants
to do some of this amazingstuff that we talked about today
, or, as you know from apersonal perspective, wants to
to to have better nutrition andhave a better plan, how to get

(01:12:33):
hold of you, and, yeah, what'sthe best way to to get in touch?

Cailie Ford (01:12:37):
Great, so I am Brisbane based, but I deal with
corporate businesses andindividuals across the globe, so
they can visit my website.
Kay Lee forward nutrition dotcom connects with me on LinkedIn
Kay Lee forward, my Instagramand my Instagram handle is Kay

(01:12:59):
Lee forward nutrition, so reachout through any of those avenues
.
Would love To hear from people.
My passion is around shiftingthe well being of an
organization from the inside outand doing that through well
been workshops and interventionsthat create meaningful change

(01:13:21):
for people, not just tick boxsolutions and then bringing that
Knowledge as well to my privatepractice, helping individuals
with a range of healthconditions like gut health,
hormone health, weightmanagement you know, all those
sorts of things that commonlyaffect people.

(01:13:41):
I'm incredibly privileged to beable to work with people on
their health journeys and seethe outcomes long term.

Lee Stevens (01:13:49):
I think that pragmatic style that you take in
a dog, which is quite clear, Ithink, will resonate with a lot
of people.
I think you know, I think I canunderstand why a lot of
organizations will go to you.
So so wish you all the bestwith that and that, and I really
appreciate your time and comingon and, yeah, we'll stay in
touch.

Cailie Ford (01:14:07):
Thanks so much.
Lee looks forward to it.

Lee Stevens (01:14:12):
So that's another great episode, done and dusted,
as always.
I'd love to hear from you ifyou know anyone that's got a
really good story to tell abouthow they are, or not, living a
productive life.
If you want to get in touchwith me, please do so by my
website, wwwleastevansco.
That's wwwleastevansco.
You can email me, lee atleastevansco, or get in touch on

(01:14:35):
LinkedIn, which we're alsohanging out In the meantime.
Have a good week.