Scaling a National Recruitment Business: With Kinetic CEO Kate Ross

Discover how Kate Ross, CEO of Kinetic Recruitment, shattered traditional norms and championed a successful path in recruitment and entrepreneurship. From exploring why university education might not be the be-all and end-all, to the benefits of learning a trade, Kate's journey inspires us to rethink our educational norms. Get immersed in her rustic beginnings, the charm of her early farm life, and how it molded her into the entrepreneur she is today. 

Sit back and join us for a deep-dive into Kate's career trajectory - from her induction into the recruitment world to her triumphs in Morgan and Banks. Gaining insights into her move into entrepreneurship with Kinetic Recruitment, we explore the struggles and sweet victories of scaling a business in a fiercely competitive market. Let's unravel how she navigated the changing dynamics of recruitment, kept her business afloat amidst competition, and adapted her strategies to the evolving industry norms.

Dive into a conversation about the current state of the healthcare sector and corporate industry in New Zealand amidst the pandemic. Learn about how Kate leveraged remote work to her advantage, adapting and evolving her business during these testing times. Lastly, let's discuss the significance of mental health and productivity in the workplace, and how data can be used to maintain a balance. Get ready for an inspiring episode bursting with life and career lessons from a trailblazing entrepreneur.

Hear how some of Australasia's most interesting and successful people are utilising People, Technology and Processes to live a productive life.

For more information on Lee Stevens visit www.leestevens.co

Sponsored by workforcery.com

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Time and Motion podcast with me, your
host, lee Stevens.
For over 25 years I've workedwith businesses all over the
world to improve the technologyand the people within them.
In this podcast I share some ofmy experiences and I chat to
guests who generously sharetheir stories of how to or, in
some cases, how not to live aproductive life.
I hope you enjoy the show.

(00:28):
Hello and welcome to Time andMotion with me, lee Stevens.
In this week's episode I catchup with Kate Ross, who is the
founder and CEO of KineticRecruitment.
Kinetic grew rapidly in 1997and now have offices in Auckland

(00:52):
, toronto, wellington andChristchurch, just to name a few
.
Kate is a successfulentrepreneur who has grown a
business from scratch and is oneof those people whose passion
and energy just drags you alongand wakes you up for the day.
So hope that does that todayand on with the show.
Kate Ross, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Thank you very much for having me.
It's great to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
How are you doing today?

Speaker 2 (01:15):
I'm great.
Actually It's been, as I justsaid.
We got back from holiday in thelast couple of days, so it feel
very relaxed.
I've come back into the oldcold weather after having
sitting in 30 odd degrees, so,yep, bit of a shock.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Where did you go?
Anywhere, nice.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Tahiti Yeah, i haven't been there before.
It was so nice.
I was just saying I'd go toTahiti of Afeja any day.
It was just honestly whitesands crystal water.
highly recommend it.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Very good, we'll have to get that on the list.
Okay, so before we get going,do you just want to explain who
you are, what you do and yourcompany?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
So I'm the CEO and founder of Kinetic Recruitment.
I started the business in myearly 20s.
I actually fell intorecruitment like most recruiters
do, I think, these days, orwhatever you know.
most of the time I went leftschool, went overseas for five
years and then came back andworked for Morgana Banks and
then I decided I could probablydo things a little bit better
myself.
So I've been in the businessfor 26 years, sold it about

(02:05):
three, four years ago to anoverseas organization Based out
of Japan.
they've been phenomenally greatto work alongside.
So yeah, enjoying the ride.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Before we get into the juicy stuff, let's just go
back a little bit.
So where did you grow up andwhat was early life like for you
?

Speaker 2 (02:20):
I grew up.
My hometown is Palmer SouthNorth.
I actually grew up on a farm.
My father was actually he'sjust recently passed away,
actually He was a farmer, iguess and my mum looked after
the kids.
Growing up was not the easiest,to be honest, i probably I

(02:42):
changed schools quite a lot.
My first school had about ninekids in it and I think we just
kind of hung around and playedthe whole entire time until I
was about seven.
And then I moved to anotherschool just around the corner
and again didn't spend much timein the books and spent most of
my time actually playing bullrush.
So probably wasn't until mylater, like probably eight or
nine, that things had to get alittle bit serious.

(03:03):
So I went into I moved into aprivate school where I was
required to spend most of theyear actually doing one-on-one
tutoring on my own in classes toget up to speed with all the
things that I'd lost.
So on top of that, my home lifewas quite hard.
My father was a very, very hardman and him and I have never
had a great relationship, to behonest, so he's not the easiest

(03:25):
to be around.
So I kind of bolted to boardingschool when I was about 12 and
then left school at 16 anddidn't really come back.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Okay, and university.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
No, no university.
I moved to a new school, as Isaid, went overseas for five
years, traveled the world when Iwas 16 to 21-ish, 22, came back
and then just fell intorecruitment.
I've always been.
I don't believe personally.
I don't believe in universityunless there's a real reason for
it, Like I do think there's apurpose for university and a
reason to go there, but I don'tthink it's necessary for

(03:58):
everyone.
I think you really need to do,need to know.
You know there's no point goingthen spending thousands and
thousands or tens of thousandsof dollars.
To be honest with you, you'rejust going to, like I see, end
up in a role that you probablycould have started if you just
left school, like so many peopleI see today.
So I just think that you knowif you're going to uni or you're
going to any of those trades,whatever.
Just make sure you're choosingthe right one, if you can.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, you're in good company, by the way.
So most of the people who havebeen on this show didn't go to
university.
It's interesting.
There must be definitely apattern and a trend that, myself
included and mine, was simplybecause I just didn't know what
I wanted to do and thought I'dgo out and try some jobs.
And so I think there's a lot ofpeople out there just who are
very, very similar, and I think,actually what's happened?
even the generation in between,i think it was felt that you

(04:40):
probably had to go touniversities, whereas now our
kids, actually, it's probablybecome a bit more acceptable You
go, well, you might layyourself with debt.
You don't really know what youwant to do.
Yeah, why don't you go and geta trade or go and learn the
ropes you know in a business ofsome kind?
So, yeah, completely agree withyou on that front.
Okay, so first job, what wasthat?

Speaker 2 (04:59):
My first job actually was picking strawberries when I
was probably around 13 or 14and I got fired on the first day
.
It was so frustrating I think Ihad to fill the whole carton up
for like two bucks.
I thought, bugger, this, i'mjust going to have a you know
strawberry fight and left.
So I bailed and then I probablyI just had odd jobs along the
way, but my first real job, ohand then it actually I was

(05:21):
nannying for overseas for quitea few years And I didn't have my
first corporate role probablyuntil I came back to New Zealand
.
I mean, i did work in LosAngeles for a couple of years
where I ran the Gen2 owner ownedMGM Studios obviously a major
network over there So I lookedafter his house and ran his
stuff.
But corporate role didn't startuntil I probably got back to

(05:43):
New Zealand and probably fellinto recruitment.
To be honest, that was my firstreal office job.
Oh, actually, that's lie.
I worked for Daugie Group,which was candle recruitment
prior to that actually, whichwas probably my into recruitment
, where I actually looked afterthe advertising there for a
little bit.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
So recruitment is absolutely one of those jobs
that most people fall into,myself included a few years ago.
So how did you fall intorecruitment?

Speaker 2 (06:07):
I was walking the streets of Lampton Key and I
thought, what am I going to dowith myself?
And I actually walked into arecruitment agency and someone
said to me, oh, you should dowhat I'm doing.
And I thought, well, what areyou doing?
And I didn't really understandwhat they were doing.
So I kind of left the agencyand walked out.
And then I got interviewed forthe Daugie Group which I said is
now candle, which I don't thinkexists anymore, and they were

(06:27):
looking for a word processorwhich is obviously WP, writing
all the CVs.
Back in the day And I ended uptalking to the owners of the
Daugie Group and they didn'tactually ask me anything about
my background.
We just kind of had it off andstarted chatting and just
talking and they just kind ofhired me on the spot.
Then they found out later, onceI started, that I didn't even
know where the on off key was ona computer and they had to

(06:48):
throw me into something elsebecause I had hired a person who
had no idea what she was doing.
But I was definitely someonewho was prepared to work really
hard and man did I have to grindand I learned a lot of lessons
in that agency.
And then about two years and Istarted helping the contracting
team in IT and I loved it.
So I talked to the candidates,bringing people on board, and

(07:10):
then my boss said to me hey,listen, kate, you need to get
into recruitment.
You're not IT, i was in my veryearly 20s, but you need to get
into recruitment.
Interview with a whole lot ofrecruitment agencies and picked
Morgan and Banks.
And the reason I picked Morganand Banks is that I just love
the reception desk.
I thought it was so flash, itwas big, it looked impressive.
I thought, boom, that's theplace I want to be And that's
where I started.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
And what sort of year we're talking here now.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Oh God, then you're going to reveal my age.
So I'm talking shivers.
When was it?
I started Connecticut?
in 97.
So it would have been aroundabout 94, 95 around there.
And the good old days when youliterally had to be an idiot not
to pick up work.
You know, i mean it was I waspumping back then.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
It would have been.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, i suppose just before that tech boom really
kicked off, i would imagine aswell in IT.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
Okay, so what kind of recruitment was you doing?

Speaker 2 (08:01):
I was a temp recruiter.
So basically I worked for, youknow, an office support part of
Morgan and Banks where Iliterally was just doing temp
work.
I was not given much training,even the MMB, you know not too
bad on training, but I actuallywas literally just given the old
yellow pages and said, right,get on the phones.
And I listened to people aroundme and I worked really hard.

(08:23):
At the time I had a mortgageand I was the only one in my
house had a flatmate, but I had,i think it was like $20 at the
end of every week literally tolive off.
I was on the bones of my buttAnd so I knew with recruitment
it was going to give me theopportunity to earn comms And I
knew, if I was self driven whichI am that I could do
potentially do really well.
So I just literally threw myheart and soul into it And

(08:47):
within the first three months Iwas the top pillar nationally
for the business.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
What do you put that success down to in those early
days?

Speaker 2 (08:55):
What do I put it down to?
I think it was a mixture ofthings.
I think it was survival.
You know I had to get out thereand do it myself.
I was not going to fail.
I'm a proud person.
I do not want to fail.
I actually loved what I did,Like I really love recruitment
and I still love recruitment.
So I believe in what I do and Ido believe I actually do give a
really good service and I knowwhat I'm doing.

(09:16):
And so the combination of allthose things and being
remunerated based on yourefforts was just the box that
made everything tick for me.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Okay, so doing well top billions.
Life is good, As you say, moneyis good during life.
But what state did you realise?
actually, I want to go and dothis for myself.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Well, what happened was I'm a very loyal individual
and what happened was is thatI'd be like my boss said to me I
was the first one to turn thelights on in the morning, the
last one to turn them off atnight, and I was working like
that And then about five or sixof the top billers were the
Morgan Banks and the Wellingtonteam left, actually informed
their own agency, and at thetime I think you know, looking

(10:02):
back, i mean probably theWellington branch of the M&B
brand was probably one of themost successful.
I mean, that place hummed.
It was awesome, it was a really, really slick operation And
those people leaving was huge inthe market.
It was a massive disturbance,and so the whole place kind of
crumbled after that And theyactually said, hey, listen, do
you want to come too?
And I thought no, i was reallyin drawing what I was doing, and

(10:26):
then one of the people thatleft said to me Hey, listen, you
know what.
You need to do this on yourself, on your own.
You need to get out there anddo this.
I thought you know what?
why not?
I mean, the place has turnedupside down, you know, i know
what I was doing.
Okay, i've only been in thebusiness for two years two and a
bit years but I know how torecruit.
I had no idea how to run abusiness.
So literally, honestly, iwalked across the other side of

(10:47):
the road where there was avacancy And it was literally
across the other side of theroad.
I signed a lease, i went to agovernment agency that was
closing down, bought the wholeof my office furniture and my
bins and my reception desk Ithink it was $1,100.
I spray painted everything soit was kind of looked the same.
And then got the phones goingand thought, shit, now I've got
to blink and start earning somemoney to pay the bills.

(11:10):
And, honestly, the first itjust boomed.
I'd been in the market for solong, i knew the Wellington
market, so that part wasn't hard.
What I learnt was how to run abusiness.
That was the learning curve forme, because I didn't come from
a business background.
I didn't know what I was doing.
I hadn't managed stuff before,i hadn't had a CFO, any of those
things, so all those thingswere very new to me.

(11:32):
But all I knew if I keptbringing the money in and kept
billing, then everything elsewould take care of it, you know,
care of itself.
So and that's how I grew.
You know it was a little bit bytrial and error.
At the beginning I made a lotof mistakes and on hindsight
that makes you better, i guess.
Down the track, and would I doit any differently?
Probably not.
You know it was a wild ride.
It's been a great ride.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
So probably not do dissimilar for myself, actually,
because I did the same.
I worked for someone for a fewyears and thought, oh, hang on,
i could do this myself.
But tried a few things out andended up setting up my first
business.
I think I called it somethingweird like Oddbark Recording
because it was going to be firstin the Yellow Pages, double A,
so.
But obviously the web was quitea different place.

(12:13):
You know, 20 years ago right,when I probably did that and the
tech was slightly different.
But one thing that was kind of,i suppose, different from me
was absolutely right aboutwanting to own your own business
.
But for me, the ability to scaleSo it's such a people business,
right, recruitment and you'reonly as good as the recruiters
that work for you And obviouslypeople buy from people is such a

(12:35):
classic adage in that game, inrecruitment, right, but for me
it was do I really want to scalethis?
And you know, ultimately peoplewill buy me?
And for me, actually, whathappened was the opportunity to
get into IT.
I don't know if I've told thisstory actually, but I'll share
anyway.
So what happened was it was aclassic Friday afternoon call
which all recruiters get, whichis Lee, we need someone to start
Monday morning at Unilever.

(12:56):
This is in London, and yeah, weneed a SharePoint business
analyst to start on Monday.
I was like, good luck with that, i'm down the pub, it's Friday,
right.
And so I said, ok, well, tellme what you need.
They said, oh, look, they needto be good with people.
I said yeah.
They said I need to know a bitabout the tech.
I went, yeah, need to beorganised.
I went yeah, and they said youalso, just just need to know a

(13:18):
little bit more than the client.
I said not being two pints inby this point.
I said, yeah, not be fine, icould do that, No problem, not
joking around.
I went, great, start Monday,put the phone down, And so this
is at Unilever.
I said, oh my God.
So I literally cracked myself,went to WH Smith the bookstore,
put books on project managementAnd I was like you know, is it
Johnny five in that movie?
So I turned up Monday morningand I was literally finally

(13:42):
going to find that I'm going tofind out about getting these
guys out of trouble.
I knew more than they did.
I was organised, asked aboutquestions and someone said, oh,
we're going to get ourinfrastructure guy to code this
thing.
I was like no, you won'tinfrastructure guys manage
servers.
I was like who's this guy?
He's the Messiah.
I'm just telling you.
It's funny, you know, sometimesyou get these breaks right.
And then actually I was likeactually I can do this And like

(14:04):
so if anyone out there islistening and there's doubt in
yourself, it says I can't dothis And I don't think I've got
the key skills And my wife's aclassic example of this Actually
back yourself right, becausethat's probably got probably 80%
of the skills.
Yeah And so, but for me I didn'twant to.
So back to you.
I didn't want to scalerecruitment business.
So why did you want to scale arecruitment business?

Speaker 2 (14:25):
I think it's actually the hard part of scaling is the
initial part, because you getto a stage where when anything's
a small, you can manage itright.
You can manage it kind oftightly and you can see what's
going on and you can be acrossthings.
Then you cross a threshold, anda threshold probably sits for
me probably around about sevenor eight, when more structure
needs to come in And you've gotmore people and you can't get
across things quite as big.
So once you get to that youkind of like have to go right

(14:47):
more more operational things tocome into it.
Why I wanted to scale isbecause I wanted to be big.
I wanted to be bigger than whatI was.
I wanted to get across all myclients nationally.
I didn't want to be a smallagency just stuck in Wellington
doing that.
One thing Did I realize I wasgoing to become an offer
different?

(15:07):
the differences that I do nowand like the different offerings
that I would do to medical No,i did not.
I didn't realize I was going toget that big.
But those actually thoseoffering in terms of the medical
side, the blue coliseum, eventhe IT have actually come out of
COVID and have come out of therecession, like those times when
you've had to hunker down andthink, shivers, where can I

(15:28):
create the next opportunityBecause this part isn't working?
That's when I'm kind of turningaround and go right, where am I
going to find the next?
you know, bit of money.
But I love scaling, i lovegetting a bigger team, i love
manager bigger team.
I like putting structure inplace so I can get bigger and
out there.
So, yeah, it was just somethingthat was just very normal and
natural to me.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
And so I guess the obvious question is how, though?
right, because, as I say,recruitment is such a people
business, but there's definitelyways, through people, processes
and tech, that you can actuallyscale and create a brand and
you can deliver in a certain way.
So did you have like a secretsource or a way that you went
about your trade?
that was quite a different atthat time that you kind of then

(16:08):
imparted on to others.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Look, i think there's so many things that come into
it.
Like you know, it's about thepeople that you hire and the
culture that you create and theopportunities that you create
for the people within yourbusiness is whether they're
going to stay and what they'regoing to do for you.
I mean, you know you've got to.
I think you've got to listenand see where opportunities are
and be flexible enough to moveif there's opportunities there.

(16:32):
So you know, within a businessyou can't be a set, and even big
organizations these days Youcan't be set on your ways.
You've got to be agile enoughto move to create opportunity.
So I think for me is that whenI took on staff, i made sure one
there was someone that I wantedto work alongside and I knew I
could.
I could manage and create andbuild up and feel like sure I
can impart my I guess myexperience of you know, 26 years

(16:55):
or whatever it was onto themand they could be successful.
And it turns because you at thebeginning you're about yourself
, you're about creating abusiness for yourself and about
making as much money and gettingout there and just pure drive
for you And then it starts towager.
You know, i actually know if Iwant to do this blink and hard
slog anymore I have to be clientfronting and think, okay, now
I'm going to build a team andimpart my wisdom onto them and

(17:19):
empower them to do that.
And then you just kind of growand grow and grow And then, as I
saw opportunities because I wasbased in Wellington in 2000, i
moved to Auckland.
You know that was that was noteasy.
I mean, i was very establishedin my Wellington office.
I moved to Auckland in 2000where there was like a mini
recession going on which Ididn't even realize.
I worked out of my car for sixmonths.
I couldn't afford an office.
I had to work in cafes.

(17:40):
I was literally doing anythingI could to get into the Auckland
market.
And you know, and people didn'teven know who I was.
And the first thing aboutAuckland when I first got here
was like how much do you charge?
Where Wellington was way morerelationship based.
You know it was like, you know,if I know you, i like you and
I'll work with you.
So it was a very differentscene.
And so I had to change the waythat I worked and become more

(18:04):
business like and work harderand faster.
You know I'd walk into aWellington client and turn
around and boom, i know I gotthe business.
I walk into an Auckland clientand turn around and they're nah,
didn't get that one, you know,because it's just so much more
competitive and so much harder.
So you learn those things asyou grow.
So I just wanted to buildsomething that you know, when I
leave eventually that will carryon and become better still, you

(18:24):
know.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, and I think you're absolutely right about
Wellington and Auckland.
So my take on it is thatWellington has been and always
will be the old boys and oldgirls networks, so it just takes
ages to get in.
But once you're in, you're, inAuckland, a little bit more
transactional.
They don't really care whereyou're from, but it's about
price and it's about your, yourability to move fast, right.
And probably more in tune withlike a London based background.

(18:46):
I guess I'm used to So, andobviously Christ Church is very
relationship driven as well,right, So that's.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
That's probably the toughest market in the mall, to
be honest with you.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Yeah, that's another piece down there.
Yeah, yeah, but anyway, movingon, yeah, so okay, so early days
.
So you did scale, you did do alot of things like culture,
processes, talk us about thegrowth of the business from, i
suppose, then through to currentday.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Okay.
So when I moved to Auckland in2000, i had it was two of us, i
guess in the office then wasmyself and another consultant
And I had a part timereceptionist working, her and I.
She was great Actually.
We used to get in at five inthe morning and start
registering candidates early,but we'd go home at, honestly,
you know, nine, 10 o'clock atnight.
You know she was a reallyawesome person to work alongside

(19:36):
and she really helped build the, the kinetic team, up.
And then we just kind of kept.
I just kept expanding and keepbringing on people.
The first year I was inAuckland we won by sec.
You know the best newrecruitment agency, i think you
know small agency in New Zealandwhich was pretty awesome.
At that stage when I was wasn'teven focused on that.
Actually I was not as focusedon becoming established And, as

(19:56):
you do, you just kind of keepgrowing.
You just you just intuitively,intuitively know or feel when
the next person needs to come onit.
It is timing, it's aroundmaking sure your other staff are
at a certain level.
So it gives you the time tofocus on that next one or two
people coming on board, makingsure that the the market's not
too bad.
So you know you're not going togo for a massive dip.
And then all of a sudden you'vegot all these heads to kind of

(20:17):
feed and you think, shoot, howam I going to get that across?
So there's little things thatcome into it that.
But at the end of the day youjust have to back yourself, back
the team, go for it.
You know, bring people on board.
I've opened up Taronga, i've gotin Christchurch.
Those regions only actuallycame about by people wanting to
move there.
So I had staff members thatactually wanted to move there.

(20:37):
I thought, well, I'm not goingto lose you.
You're fab, you're great.
I've spent all this time, youknow, getting you up to speed.
I'll just hire an officer andyou can work from there.
So that's, that's kind of wherethose other regions came from.
And obviously now you know,being 45 staff members and the
way that since COVID's happenedand we're all working, you know
people are scattered everywhere,all over the show.

(20:59):
But I do have to say that eventhough I do run a very flexi
kind of working environment,people prefer to be in than out.
I do find even the ones thatcan work from home as much as
they want.
They tend to come into theoffice more than because you
know it's.
It's as you know, inrecruitment it's so important to
be around energy and people andyou learn and you kind of, when
you're having down days, youcan have a spaz and they all

(21:21):
kind of back you up And that'svital.
That is vital.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, It's tough though, sometimes when you are
the person that they're lookingto to to be the the jazz hands,
as I call it, you know and thenhave the game face on, because I
used to, when I did some someleadership coachings at last
year, we had to come up withyour, your good ego and your bad
ego.
So if you're having a reallybad day, that was when ugly
turned up I was grumpy and, youknow, probably because West Ham

(21:46):
had been beat at the weekend or,you know, kids have given me a
bit of chip, But so ugly turnsup and people said we don't like
ugly, He can stay away, Whereasmy game face I used to call
Beatlejuice because he used togo at showtime I walk in the
door and I go right, come on,guys, We're going to do this.
You know we're going to closethat there or we're going to
kick that project off And so.
But I think it would be thesame with you.
I'm ready to.
Energy would have come from you, Right.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, But I don't really have that Beatlejuice
face or that, whatever you callit.
I'm kind of.
I'm pretty consistent.
To be honestly, I literally I Idon't actually really have many
down days, And if I'm having adown day, they'll know about it,
because I'll tell them.
I'm saying look, look, blah,blah, blah blah blah, you know.
I am.
I am a bit of a, i am a verymuch an open book.
I like that.
the way my staff and I guesshow I kind of work with my staff

(22:28):
We all I just tend to manage,based on them personally, what's
going on their home lives andwhat's happening with them at
work.
And you know you can't, youcan't manage a team as an
entirety.
You've got to look at theindividual and think, okay, what
do they need from me and whatdo they need for themselves to
do to do well?
But no, i'm kind of more upthan down, a lot more up than

(22:50):
down.
I'm pretty consistent in theway that I come into the office,
a little bit nuts at time, tobe honest.
you know everybody.

Speaker 1 (22:57):
I'd imagine that energy is quite infectious
though I can, I would get veryloud in here.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
at times we can't hear ourselves.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
That's one thing I do miss about recruitment.
It was always quite loud andenergetic, so during recruitment
.
During recruitment in the early2000s, it was just mental.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
If anyone's listening to it was.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
It was just, it was absolutely.
So you know that scene in Wolfon Wall.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Street when you're having a part in the office.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
I was like I was watching my wife and she was
like, oh God, that's horrendous.
She was like, yeah, that waslike it was like working on
recruitment.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
It totally was And it totally was, And it was until
the global, you know, the oldrecession hit in 2008.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
That's when it kind of you know, did a bit of a
hideous 180.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
And it hasn't really come back or hasn't come back to
that.
But I have to say last year wasa phenomenal year.
Like last year, you literallyit was like then when you know
jobs were just coming in, it was, i wear, the biggest year ever
in business.
Last year It was monster.
You know it was one of thoseone off crazy times which
unfortunately this year stillgood, but not quite the same.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
So here's a question for you What are the noticeable
big differences between kineticnow versus kind of when you
started?
and obviously size and scaleand people always be different.
Well, i get that, but what weresome of the things?
when you look back and go, itwas a different place then.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
For these reasons, Well, definitely I would have to
come down to myself and myexperience, because back there
in my 20s I don't know nearly asmuch as I do now, right, and so
you know, if Shite's gonna hitthe fan or something's up, i
know instinctively now, knowwhat to do.
It just, it's just secondnature to me, so you know.
When the pandemic hit, itwasn't like, oh god, what am I

(24:37):
gonna do.
I just knew what to do becauseyou know you've gone through a
recession, so you just learnthose most mistakes and things,
what you have to do.
In terms of the culture, we'repretty much the same.
In fact, i think we're morewacky now than what we were back
then.
We're like, we're a reallyenergetic fun, like the culture
in this place is and is crazy,like it's so tight, it's the

(24:57):
team's phenomenal, everyone'sgot their back.
So I love that about us and I'mnot saying that wasn't like us.
We were back there, but we'rejust bigger and we're just, you
know, in a different space.
I mean the markets.
The market, i mean recruitment.
Is recruitment right?
it's just different day,different time, so it's just
experience over the years it'sreally that's changed.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
And in the rapidly changing work, well, all to
recruitment.
What are some of the strategiesthat you've kind of used to
stay ahead of the competition?

Speaker 2 (25:27):
I don't focus on my competition for one right that
them.
To me, it's like they're therebut they're not there.
You know, i don't have a cluewhat half of them are up to.
I don't look at their websites.
I don't even worry about them.
That's it's not my focus.
My focus is my business and myteam.
Am I aware of them?
yeah, after we come across themin the market sometimes, yes,
but am I worried about them?

(25:49):
Definitely not.
I focus on what my team needsand what we need to do as a
company, and what we need to dobe great, right, and it comes
down to our core offering ourcustomer service, our ability to
place people, the way we treatpeople, and all of those things
are the most important thing forme.
And if I can know, if I do allthose things right, then we will

(26:09):
have good relationships withclients and we'll have good
relationships with candidatesand and I put in structure and
discipline and making sure thatthe team is trained well and
does things that fundamentallyhave to happen in recruitment,
then I don't think I thinkthat's a success.
You know, it's a success orbrief success, so I do not worry
about my competitors.
I think that's a complete wasteof time, space and I tend to
agree.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
I think a lot of people are too busy worrying
about what you're doing overthere and, rather than keeping
your own house in order anddoing what you, you know, you,
you that's probably made yousuccessful in the first place.
All right, so yeah, i'd hearyou on that one.
Have you got any like corevalues?
that kind of you guys you know,live and breathe, that you say
these are our three or fournon-negotiables yeah, they tend
to stay the same.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
So I'm big on being direct and honest.
I think that's very, veryimportant.
Big on what we're all big onloyalty and having each other's
backs.
Ethical being it's veryimportant, you know, making sure
that you know we run a straightgame and we're not gonna kind
of, you know, try and create acowboy type recruitment of

(27:09):
industry that maybe some offerand some don't, you know, and
doing everything by the book.
So you know what we offer toour clients and our candidates
is what we say we're going to do.
We're gonna make sure that wedo everything well and so it's
just those really down-to-earth,important values that I think
fundamentally underneath we allwant to be and all want to

(27:30):
strive to be right, and that'skind of stuck with me from the
day dot to right to now whatkind of role is technology plan
these days in your world?
well, this AI thing, it's gonnabe very interesting.
To be honest, i haven't got myhead around it yet, but I went
to a seminar for a three-day.
Was it like a workshoppy thingoverseas?

(27:51):
and I was like by the end ofday one I was like rolling my
eyes, going, oh my god, get meout of here.
But I mean it's gonna changeour industry, i think, quite a
bit for the for, the better andfor the worse.
I mean, i think you're gonna beable to find everything about
everybody very, very easily andthen, in terms of maybe putting
content together, obviously it'sa lot easier than doing it
yourself.
You can just into something inthe love auto fill.

(28:14):
It plays a big part now interms of sourcing candidates.
You know that systems anddatabases are getting better and
better in terms of what they'reoffering.
Obviously, linkedin, i mean itall kind of gels together and it
all helps us do our job quickerand more effectively.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
But at the end of the day, that human content and
those conversations still haveto take place yeah, and I agree
a lot those fundamentals aroundrecruitment that probably
applied a hundred years agoprobably still the same now,
right yeah?

Speaker 2 (28:48):
definitely, and that and that's one part of
recruitment that I don't thinkwill ever go away.
I mean, you still have to havethat really good conversation,
you know, and that's gonna endof it into the day gonna get you
the job.
I'm not gonna get you the job.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Where do you think a lot of people go wrong in
recruitment?

Speaker 2 (29:01):
And doing recruitment as a being a consultant.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, i mean.
So the reason I asked that isthat bit like real estate agents
, recruiters are probably tiredwith that same brush around.
You know the Flash Harry.
You know the telling peoplewhat they want to hear, not
following through.
You know integrity.
You know all of those kind ofcliches which you know, having
worked in the industry as well,you know can safely say aren't

(29:25):
true.
However, you do get the 1% orthe 1.5%, you kind of
unfortunately do act in that way, don't follow through And so do
have a few unscrupulous tactics.
So yeah, but where do you think,if you look at a lot of
business and the reason I askedthat is obviously we're going,
we are in a technical recessionnow, right, and so everyone I've
been speaking to you know,through researching things,

(29:47):
through work for Ciri, they'resaying, yeah, the market's
definitely slowed down.
It's not like it was a year ago, like you just said.
You know where.
You know the jobs were justpainful.
So but my take on it is well,surely you're just going to have
to go back to the basics ofworking hard and doing those
phone calls and, you know,lifting a few stones up to find
those candidates that are outthere, but probably, you know
got into hiding.

(30:07):
But so the reason I asked thatis is there some kind of core,
fundamental things you see,maybe in your own business, or
that you hear from clients aboutother agencies?
that are just the core thingsthat people are just getting
wrong.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Well, i think if you're hired last year and
you're new to recruitment, thisyear is going to be a hell of a
shock, right?
Because last year work wasflowing freely into the, into
organisational, especially inhere, so it was an easy start.
You know, the best recruiters,i think, start with a list of
names, get on the phone andcreate your own base, right,

(30:41):
they're the best recruitersbecause they've had to grind and
they've had to build theirclient base and they've had to
go through all the ups and downs, the roundabouts, because and
then you go through all thosewaves of being knocked back and
being beaten up and highs andlows, because that toughens you
up and it also educates you oneverything along the way.
You know, and I think if youcan handle all that and you get

(31:03):
to a point around 18 months,then you're probably in it for
the long haul.
If you inherit it and you'vegiven it, it's not the same.
It's not the same.
You're like inheritingsomething and it's easy, but
then when the market does a 180on you, you know, you don't know
how to grind, you don't knowhow to be resilient, you don't
know how to find thatopportunity and find that work

(31:24):
And at the end of the day, yes,we're salespeople, but we've got
to have a real toughness aboutus because we're getting knocked
back more and more now thanever before.
You know, way back in the dayyou could do a phone call.
No one picks up the phoneanymore.
Then you flick an email.
No one knows the text anymore.
Now it's text messages.
You're literally having to goaround around trying to find the
easiest way in because it'sjust constantly changing and

(31:46):
becoming harder and harder withtime pressures and people being
busy and so many recruiterswanting the same thing.
So that core, hard coreresistance, resilience is
important.
But I think even more than that, you've got to have support
around you from the team andyour management to know that you
are going to make mistakes,that things aren't easy and you

(32:07):
are going to fail.
But if you hang in there andyou do the processes right and
you listen to us and you stickwith it, you will be successful.
And I go through that all thetime with my recruiters, my new
ones that come on board.
They come to me at about threemonths, four months, month and
go oh my God, am I ever going toget there?
And I go.
You're going to get there, justtoughen up, get in there,
you're going to be fine.
And then boom, they'll turnaround the next couple of months

(32:28):
and then they fly.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah, And once again, maybe a bit of a cliche, but I
would say that there'sdefinitely a soft thunderbully
in some right, And so the minutethings get tough, it's like oh
no, this is just too hard.
But I think that's probablyalways been.
It's always been there.
I think that's we've beenkidding ourselves.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
That's just.
I think people in general arelife, you know, and some people
just can't handle it when theygo and get tough, right?
Well, when they go and gettough, that's when you're like,
no, i'm coming out harder, youknow.
that's when you've got toreally dig deep.
And it's important, though,when that happens, is that
you've got people around you.
they're going to help you withthat, because it's not easy, you
know.
you all need to be in thatsituation to support each other,

(33:09):
especially in recruitment,because it is.
it does directly impact yourlivelihood.
You know you're not earning asmuch, you've got certain
lifestyle you want, you've gotcertain bills to pay, and so
when you're not earning as muchand everyone's in the same
basket, it sounds terrible.
but you kind of feel like, okay, it's not just me, i can kind
of I can bounce off these guysand I can, we can all do it
together.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
So yeah, Yeah, What do you think the top
frustrations are currently withrecruiters?
Not with them, but as arecruiter.
what are your kind of topfrustrations at the moment?

Speaker 2 (33:37):
Candidate market.
You know that's always the same.
Getting older clients is hardwork these days.
I mean, they all got MIA aboutthis time of year.
They're all overseas and youknow there's so many things
going on with differentbusinesses right now, like you
know.
Some are expanding, some are onhold, some are, you know, you
know, becoming smaller.
It's just not easy.
It's not easy to manage abusiness and we've got elections
coming up.

(33:57):
We're in a, as you said, we'regoing into, we've gone into a
recession, even though there'snot too much talk at this stage
about being in a recession andit's there, but it's not like a
heavy, heavy feel like it hasbeen previously.
There's so many variables,excuse me, right now in the
market and the jobs are harderto get.
You know the jobs are hard toget.
Clients are definitely tryingto do it themselves, obviously

(34:18):
because they're trying to, youknow, save on costs.
Last year rates wasn't an issue.
This year rates are absolutelyan issue.
So the recruiters of today oflike working in this market
today, it's not easy, it's hardwork.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
I agree, and I think even the market.
I think when we were trying tofind developers about 18 months
ago we put an advert out wemight get free responses And
these are probably above,slightly above, market rates,
especially in Christchurch.
It just has a little bit harderthan maybe Auckland, where
there's less people.
But I was speaking to someoneabout two, three weeks ago and
they said they put an advert fora developer job and they got 25

(34:56):
responses.
So I suppose what it probablyhas done is probably increased
the liquidity in the market.
You know there's probably moreapplicants, i guess, out there
looking for work.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
We're getting more applicants by far, but the
quality still is not there.
I mean, you're getting a lotmore overseas applicants,
probably because the border is abit more flexible now.
People are wanting change, butthe quality is still hard to
find.
So, yeah, i mean yes, thevolume of increase, but it
doesn't mean that the increasedvolume is great candidates by
any means.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah.
So, kate, one of the big thingswe've heard about in recent
times is the brain drain, sowhere, as New Zealanders, we're
losing a lot of talent toAustralia.
I mean, you've only got to lookat teachers where you know.
Victorian government haveadvertised on the radio offering
30, 40 grand a year more forteachers, and I think you've
probably already started to seea bit of that in certain
industries And it's happening inteachings, happening with

(35:46):
doctors.
How are you seeing the braindrain affect your industry and
your business?

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Well, it's different for every sector.
So our medical sector, which isreally strong, has been hit
hard.
We've seen a lot of nursingstaff are literally leaving New
Zealand, ones that we've placed,ones that we're talking to at
the moment.
They're all got plans to move.
Now our health care is indiastrates.
We've got we think we hadproblems before.
We've got way more problems nowBecause the nursing staff and

(36:17):
the care staff are literallyleaving.
In drugs, more money, betterlifestyle, blah, blah, blah
that's what they're saying.
So I know it's more money, butyou know, when you do read about
the lifestyle, people areactually saying, okay, well, is
it that much better?
But there is more bang for buck.
So that's a massive concern.
We're actually interviewingcandidates now and trying to
float them into Australiabecause we can, we can place

(36:37):
them over there, because thereare so many people that are
looking that way.
In terms of the blue collarsector, look, no, we're not
seeing any drain there.
We're trying to define.
We actually need more peoplefrom the, from wherever they're
coming from.
So it is a bit of moving,moving in that sector.
And the corporate services look, i think there's always people
on the move there.
What I have noticed is, sinceCOVID's over.

(36:59):
Now we're seeing a big people.
A lot of people exit in thelate teens All right.
So it's the late teens, earlythirties, the ones that are
probably pre-children, justabout getting married and think
you know what?
we've got to do our OE now?
We didn't have the chancebefore.
Let's get overseas now and dothat.
There's a lot in that sectorthat are moving or thinking to
move.
So that's a real problem fororganisations because they've

(37:22):
got that good experience butthey're not quite middle
management leadership yet.
But they've got that greatmiddle level knowledge And so
they're departing and there'sgoing to be a big hole.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
In the next year or so.
What are some of the trends youexpect to see?

Speaker 2 (37:36):
It's a hard one to call.
I think that with technologyand the talk of AI and all those
things, we'll have to get moreand more involved into that.
I think we're going to bebetter.
we have to be better atbranding ourselves, at marketing
ourselves, not even as agencies, but as individuals, and
setting ourselves apart.
I don't feel that salaries willincrease too much.

(38:01):
I think maybe depending onskillset, but I think they're
probably pretty stable.
I think in the next 12 months, ithink, for my feeling, as the
next, for the rest of this year,it's just going to be one foot
in front of the other.
It's going to have to bepushing, keep pushing, keep
pushing.
We haven't even hit the wintermonths yet.
I always find the winter monthsare harder for everybody.

(38:22):
People are less likely to move.
Potentially more roles come on,but then when I was talking to
my consultants this morning,they're saying it's definitely
getting a bit more tad, quieter,so you're just going to be
better at getting out there andjust keep pushing forward and
just hoping this governmentchanges.
Am I allowed to say that?
Am I allowed to say that?
And we get a little bit of aspark with someone new and fresh

(38:45):
coming in.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Okay.
So, kate, you mentioned thatyou just sold the business, so
talk us through that.
How did that all come about?

Speaker 2 (38:55):
I had been approached a few times to sell and I
actually was never in the spaceto do it.
I wasn't really ready.
I kind of feel, like you knowwell, i just kind of instinctly
would know when it's time tokind of do a bit of a change.
And I think you know I'd beenthrough a recession.
I've built the team up againand then was approached through

(39:15):
Deloitte's too, to sell.
you know Kinetic And I met withthe buyers and they were great.
you know I've always worriedabout when you sell are they
going to change the culture ofthe place?
Are they going to change, youknow, what you've built for the
last 20 plus years and is itgoing to be significantly
different?
So, and I into my staff werevery important, important.
I didn't want to leave themfeeling like, okay, we've built

(39:36):
this thing, we've done well, andnow all of a sudden, these
people are coming in and aregoing to change everything about
us.
So the best thing about theorganization that purchased me
is that they wanted to leave ushow we were.
They wanted me to carry on andjust run the company as it was,
do what I've done for the last Xamount of years, but pay me to
do it.
I thought, boom, i'm in.
So you know, it was a 12 month,i guess due diligence.

(39:59):
It was long, it was draining,it was exhausting.
When I sold, was I happy?
No, i was absolutely shattered.
I need to take it two weeks offand collapse in the sun
somewhere.
I was.
it was not a woohoo at the endof the tunnel, it was actually
really tiring, yeah.
And then you know, you get themoney in the bank and you go
right.
well, what's next?
And so I was contracted on tostay for the last for two years,

(40:22):
which I did, and then I love it.
So I just re-signed another,you know another year on my
contract.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah, and I went through the same process in
December.
So I completely agree.
You know a friend of mineexplained the situation when you
sell your business.
So the money arrives in thebank and you expect people to be
jumping out from around thecorner with poppers and
streamers and balloons And thatdoesn't happen.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Definitely not.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
And you're kind of looking around and go is that,
it, Is that it And it is it's atransaction.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah, it's exactly right.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
It's a transaction And it's really tiring because
it's question after questionafter question after question.
You know 12 months of it So andyou can understand, but it's
just, it's not easy.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
I was quite lucky because I had a very good mentor
and a business partner when Ifirst set up and he'd always
taught me you know, run thebusiness as if you're going to
sell it.
And so our due diligence, Ithink, was done, probably in
less than two weeks, because itwas a little bit less complex,
right.
So you know we're near the sizeof your business, but I think
it's because we had such goodsystems and processes in place.

(41:23):
It was literally dropped Therewe go And off we went.
But yeah, every business isdifferent, so I suppose what's
right for one business isn't thesame as others.
So yeah, but that poppers andballoons thing, i definitely was
expecting that as well.
Okay, so you sign up foranother year?
One question I did want to askyou is when we were speaking a
few weeks ago, you mentionedthat COVID obviously was

(41:45):
traumatic initially in thebusiness.
It crippled a lot of businesses, right.
But you mentioned there's a lotof good stuff that came out of
that for your business.
So, yeah, talk us through that.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
So, god, it was actually a lot of things.
I feel good came out of thatterrible you know, 12 or
whatever.
So months or a few minutes, itwas One.
I'll talk about the team.
So we became tighter.
I put in some very tightstructures and expectations

(42:15):
around keeping everybody incontact because obviously we
weren't in the office anymore.
We're all working very remotelySo you can get very deflated
and you know with what's goingon and what's happening in the
world, i guess.
So we changed the way that wework.
So we had team meetings threetimes a week.
We had some, you know, we putin some fun things, we put in
some work initiatives and I wasvery, very structured on how I

(42:36):
did that And because of thatstructure we become actually
stronger and tighter and abetter team.
For it It was actually end upbeing, you know, good fun and we
had some fun times doing it.
And then that actually alsotaught me that I can trust my
staff more than what I realizedNow.
I know that sounds terrible,but I'm a control freak, right,

(42:58):
and I'm kind of the person thatyou need.
Back in the day I felt like, oh, you needed to be in front of
me to know that I know whatyou're doing.
Well, what COVID taught me isthat you don't actually that I
can trust my staff a lot more.
They're going to get on withthe job, they're going to do
things that they need to bedoing and they'll pitch in and
rally around.
So it was a really, really goodlearning for me And I think I'm

(43:21):
actually a better leader nowthat I've gone through that,
because now the way that we setup Kinetic Now it's still on a
TED system, so you still have toearn your stripes to get that
freedom, but it motivates you,but you know It's it's driven,
it's it's core made me allowedto just be more, a bit more
relaxed with my staff to theconversations.

(43:42):
I've always been very open tomy conversations with them
anyway.
But I don't know, you just lookat things a little bit
differently And maybe I'm not so.
You know hands, i'm alsohands-on, but I'm not so kind of
like focused on everything.
Now I kind of let things go alittle bit more freely, which
you know The staff will probablysay something differently, but
I but I think that, but also andI from a revenue point of view,

(44:02):
you know our core business wasturned on its head.
You know we're corporateservices.
So there was no corporateservices work.
There was nothing out therethat sales, marketing, finance,
zippo.
So I said to my team I said youknow, we're going to create
Revenue elsewhere because wecan't sit here now for the next
six months and do nothing.
So I thought, right, obviously,where's the work coming from?
It's gonna be, you know, bluecollar work.
It's gonna be medical.

(44:23):
So we literally all turn intoblue collar medical recruiters,
like we all do.
We just kind of like, right,we're calling every countdown,
you were whatever you need awear on it, you know.
And we all divided up, we all do.
We're very planned in ourapproach.
We all allocated differentthings.
We all had set responsibilitiesand we came back together and
talked about it and then we kindof getting people It's that are
really, really working.

(44:43):
So then we kind of come out ofcovert and the corporate
services work starts coming backAnd again I had great revenue
streams coming from blue collarmedical now like really good
Money earners.
So then I've just built teamsaround those two verticals that
were not part of the businesspre-covid and And you mentioned
that the type of employment wasslightly different in those

(45:05):
industries.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
So is it fair to say that those industries were a lot
more contractor led?

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Oh yeah, a lot of temps.
You know, back then it was likeit was all temp base, it was
all contracting base, it was no,not much permanent work going
on at all.
But obviously now that we'renot there It's a real mix
between temp and permanent.
So you know, we were, we were,we were all stocking shelves.
Like I was out even stockingshelves in the middle of the
night trying to.
I mean, i have no problemsdoing that, you know, making
sure that you know revenuescoming into the company to

(45:33):
ensure Bill's get paid.
So if we were short staffed andwe couldn't find anybody
because everyone was too busy,you know It, pick and save
stocking shelves and the staffwe needed and did it themselves.
So it was all hands-on.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yep, amazing.
Okay, so what does the futurehold for you?

Speaker 2 (45:48):
Oh, God, i think you know I'm in that position right
now that I'm thinking about.
You know, what do I want forKettit kinetic?
next, i've got the most amazinggroup of people around me, so I
want to make sure that theykeep Learning and developing and
I want to make sure thebusiness gets bigger and
stronger.
So I'm always looking out, youknow, for more staff and

(46:09):
different verticals in differentareas.
So, yeah, it's kind of likewe're just about to launch a new
website, so I'm looking I'mactually looking at internals
right now and making sure thatwe're doing everything as
efficiently as we possibly can.
Looking at different technologyAre we using the best
technology in the market?
Are we?
I'm actually got up to brandingpeople in at the moment, so I'm

(46:31):
giving everybody on a brandingcourse, making sure that they're
representing themselves as bestthey can on LinkedIn.
So there's a lot of personalinvestment going in from the
company into their staff toensure that they are Continuing
to learn and to also make surethat they can do their job as
best they can for themselves.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
And I suppose all the list is essentially just
improving and increasing theproductivity of the business
over all right.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Absolutely, but it's also, you know, productiv is
important, but it's also makingsure that they look after
themselves as well.
You know, i know, you know Iactually hate that word balance.
I'm really do.
I think One is balance.
I mean exactly right, likebloody hell, but I mean I do
feel that you know You've got tomake sure that your people are

(47:14):
happy.
You've got to listen to to whatthey're like.
I like I just picked an emailout this morning.
I said this and I want to havea state of the nation tell me
how you're all feeling, what'sgoing on out there, and Because
it's important that if they'refeeling like they need some time
off, or they're feeling a bitflat, or they're feeling Like
they just need a bit ofgroundhog day, which it does get
that they can tell me that andI can pick it up for them And
they can go off and have a bitof a break on me or they can do

(47:35):
something different forthemselves.
Because you know It's it's, youknow it's not easy.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
I think that's where I can see AI being a positive
thing as well.
So like, for example, i in workfor three we're already looking
at how we can use the data.
We've got to actually startspotting some trends, you know,
before they happen.
So like and it was simple oneis like leave balances right, so
the system could just send thema little alert to say look, we
see you haven't taken a leavefor a while.

(48:00):
You know, okay, how about youcan book a nice holiday.
You know we, you know that kindof thing.
So those, those are sort ofthings I think you can
definitely see being beinghelpful.
But, yeah, and even things likejust the check-in, like that
pulse survey you know The, thehappy or not, things similar to
know when you go through theairport, right, you know, if
you're seeing lots of sad faceday in, day out, then might be

(48:21):
worth having a chat with someone.
So I think that there's someUsing that data better is
something we can all probably do.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Yeah, i have a role in the role, but I do tend to
push the leave on the winter.
So I try to say, look, you know, i really want you.
When they come on board I say,look, i really want you to take
a break over the winter months.
It's kind of like anon-negotiable me.
Even if it's a long weekend orfour or five days, i don't care,
but you need that break,especially in that middle part
of the year, you know.
So go around and say kind of,tick everybody off.

(48:50):
Have you booked your holiday?
Have you booked your holiday?
Have you booked your holiday?
Because you just you needsomething to look forward to.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Yeah, and we go so hard right for those months
after February, from February togets to that June, july,
everyone's like I'll sort of beout of breath.
You need a bit of a catch-up.
So I hear you All right, okay.
So I'm gonna ask you one lastquestion, which I ask everyone
on the show, and that is if youcould go back and give 21 year
old Kate some advice.
What would that be?

Speaker 2 (49:12):
I Would say to myself don't be in such a hurry.
I think we're, you're young andyou want to be and create
something and do something big.
Sometimes you, you can hurry.
So I probably would say tomyself don't hurry, it will work
out, just take your time andAbsolutely enjoy the wins and

(49:33):
the ride.
That's something that I don'tdo.
I Literally just keep lookingfor the next and keep looking
for the next.
You know, i'm not good atcelebrating My personal wins.
I celebrate other wins, but Idon't celebrate my personal wins
.
So I think that just saying toyourself, you know what you're
done, great, good, right next,you know, i just don't do that.
So I think, yeah, those are thetwo things I'd say to myself.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Okay, brilliant.
Okay, thanks so much for makingthe time to come on to the show
.
Really appreciate and lookingforward to seeing your ongoing
success and the success ofkinetic.
So thank you very much andenjoy the rest of your week.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Thanks so much.
Thank you very much for havingme.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
That's it another episode done.
I'm sure you'd agree, kate wasa fascinating guest and, as I
said at the start of the show,one of those people you speak to
in life whose energy is quiteintoxicating.
And so if you're feeling a bitdown or you not really got your
game face on having a chat withKate, no, he gives you a bit of
a kick up the backside and putsa smile on your face and helps

(50:30):
you get on with the day.
So that's it.
If you do know of any guests,or if you know anyone who wants
to come to the show has got areally good story to tell that
might help the New Zealandbusiness community.
Please get in touch.
My email address is Lee at LeeStevens dot co.
That's Lee at Lee Stevens dotco.
Get in touch and we'll do ourbest to see if we can get on the

(50:51):
show.
Have a good week.