April 14, 2025 • 54 mins
What does it really take to build a successful construction business rooted in integrity? Adam Ferrara, founder of Ferrara Buist Contractors, reveals the surprising path that led him from residential construction to commercial contracting and development during one of the worst economic downturns in recent history.
Starting his first company in 2007 as the housing market collapsed might seem like terrible timing, but Adam saw opportunity in crisis. "Some people crashed and burned, and through those ashes, new people cropped up," he explains, detailing how he initially focused on home additions and renovations by simply asking banks where they were still lending money. This entrepreneurial instinct would later serve him well when he partnered with engineering expert David Buist to launch Ferrara Buist Contractors.
The conversation explores how Adam's "visionary" personality complements his partner's technical expertise, creating what he calls "a three-legged stool" of complementary skills that drives their business forward. This partnership approach extends to their innovative "Design Assist Build" model, which gives clients more freedom than traditional design-build contracts by allowing them to maintain ownership of architectural drawings.
Adam doesn't shy away from discussing his faith-based approach to business, explaining how Christian principles guide company decisions: "It's not about perfection, but about putting our heads on our pillows at night knowing we've done the right thing." This philosophy manifests in how they handle project challenges, focusing on solutions rather than issuing change orders - a refreshing stance in an industry often plagued by adversarial relationships.
Perhaps most compelling is the story behind their development arm, Vulcan Property Group, which aims to build 100 buildings over a decade. They've already completed 35 projects, creating a virtuous cycle where construction feeds development and vice versa. Whether you're in construction, considering a business partnership, or simply appreciate hearing from entrepreneurs who prioritize integrity over easy profits, this conversation delivers practical wisdom worth implementing.
www.ferrara-buist.com
To learn more about Tony Johnson and Timeless visit us at:
https://timelessci.com/
https://timelessco.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonytimeless/
If you would like to discuss investing in Commercial Properties create a profile and schedule a call:
https://timelessci.investnext.com/
Reach out to us directly at:
info@timelessci.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tony Johnson (00:01):
Thanks for joining Timeless Business and Building
Strategies today.
This is Tony Johnson here.
I've got Adam Ferreira with me.
Adam, how are you doing today,sir?
Adam Ferrara (00:14):
I'm doing well, tony, thank you.
Tony Johnson (00:16):
Yes, sir, and Adam is a partner and owner of Fiera
and Boost Contractors.
I probably mangled that name.
So, adam, you could probablyrestate your company's name and
we'll get into it.
Adam Ferrara (00:32):
Let's give it a shot.
So Ferreira Boost Contractors.
It's definitely a mouthful, buteventually it just kind of
sinks in.
Definitely a mouthful, buteventually it just kind of sinks
in.
Tony Johnson (00:44):
Yeah, it's cool.
It sounds like a sports carkind of setup.
Adam Ferrara (00:50):
I was one letter away from being very, very
wealthy.
Tony Johnson (00:52):
That's right.
You were close, you were righton the cusp.
Yeah, so you guys are inCharleston and Fort Mill, south
Carolina.
You're a commercial generalcontractor and you also have a
development arm.
So, adam, thank you so much forjoining us today.
(01:13):
Could you give us a littlebackground?
Adam Ferrara (01:15):
of how you got into the business, how long
you've been in the business?
Yeah for sure.
So I was a graduate of theCollege of Charleston in 2000
and a very good friend of minewho went to the Citadel turned
me on to a job with John WhelanHomes.
They're a very successful homebuilder out of Atlanta and that
was my first rodeo here inCharleston.
(01:36):
And then, right after September11, 2001, a lot of people
remember that day I moved toCharlotte, north Carolina, to
transfer with John Whelan Homesthey had a successful division
up there and went to aneighborhood south of Charlotte
(01:58):
and was very successful thereand built my first home there as
well, was very successful thereand built my first home there
as well my first personalresidence at the age of 25.
And then, I guess, I was noticedby one of John Whelan's
competitors, toll Brothers, outof Horsham, pennsylvania, and I
took a quick promotion to aproject manager with Toll
(02:22):
Brothers at a neighborhood thatwas just down the street there
in Charlotte and continued onwith them for about two and a
half years until the end of 2007, where, as we all know, there
was a tremendous amount ofmarket turbulence.
Some people crashed and burnedand through those ashes, new
(02:46):
people tended to crop up.
So that was where I was able tostart my own company at that
point in time.
I just named it after my wife.
Her name is Becky, it's calledBeck Design Group and we were
just doing additions andrenovations at that time and it
(03:06):
was very much so wildlysuccessful because it was a
bedroom community of Charlotte,which is a huge banking city, as
most people know.
We just were effectivelyfollowing the money.
I went to some local branchesand just simply said, hey, where
are you lending money?
And then we started targetingthose types of projects.
(03:27):
So fast forward a few years.
And then I continued on withthe home building side.
Some new home building wascropping up and, as 2010, 11 was
moving along and people wereready to get back to work.
And I twisted my businesspartner's arm, david Bust, who
(03:50):
was working for his family'scommercial construction company
in Florida, to move up to FortMill and give it a chance and
grow his family and grow mine.
And that's how we got startedat Ferrer Abuse.
Thank goodness to our wives,who grew up together in Anderson
(04:10):
, south Carolina, who introducedus.
Tony Johnson (04:12):
So that was kind of how it all came together.
Fantastic.
So you and David started yourcompany what year?
Adam Ferrara (04:22):
It was the summer of 2009.
It was when we filed and wewere off to the races.
We were literally sharing onedesk and one key man office in
Fort Mill, South Carolina.
I had one, one laptop on oneside and he had one on the other
.
And you know, just just likeevery small business starts from
(04:45):
humble beginnings, that was ourkickoff.
Tony Johnson (04:51):
I love it.
So you know you.
Obviously you know we don'tknow each other.
Your story aligns significantlywith my story, so you know it's
very cool to hear I don't heara lot of people.
You know starting that'sexactly.
Well, I started my company in2007, but you know you started
(05:12):
your first company then and soyou know amazing things happen
in that crash the massive crashand people did come out of the
ashes and business started up.
So when you guys started in2009, uh and you partnered up.
So it sounds like the primarilywhat you were doing prior to
(05:32):
getting david involved is wasall residential remodels and
looking at some new homeconstruction.
Uh, with that bringing him fromthe commercial side up.
Did you have any commercialexperience before he joined you?
Adam Ferrara (05:48):
Other than doing a couple of small office outfits,
I would say from a complexitystandpoint, I had little to no
commercial experience to speakof.
Tony Johnson (05:57):
And so, with with him coming in, which one of you
is the visionary and which oneis more the operator type of
person.
Adam Ferrara (06:07):
Yep, I'm the visionary.
I am I'll touch on this later,but it's learned in strategic
coach with Dan Sullivan I'm.
I'm the entrepreneur thathappens to be a general
contractor.
I hold the licensure for thecompany and I have.
I'm the entrepreneur thathappens to be a general
(06:28):
contractor.
I hold the licensure for thecompany and I have.
I'm the connector of people.
Tony Johnson (06:32):
I am the kind of the hey guys we can do it.
Adam Ferrara (06:33):
I'm the cheerleader, the coach, and try
to build the biggest tablepossible is my focus.
And David is an engineer, agraduate of Clemson and civil
engineering.
He is a nuts and bolts guy.
I can't promise you he doesn'thave one brown and one brown
sock on and one black sock on,but he knows how to read a set
(06:55):
of drawings and he's very, verygood at helping people realize
that their plans can be built.
And I'm more of the cheerleaderfor the, the cheerleader for
those business owners to helpthem understand that.
Uh, hey, let us do, let us dothe heavy lifting of the
building so we can get you guysto work, to do what you're good
at.
Tony Johnson (07:14):
I love that.
Yeah, well, that that'sfantastic.
So you guys did both of you dostrategic coach, or just you.
I did strategic coach.
Um yep coach or just you?
I did strategic coach, yep, sothat's fantastic.
So you know a lot of what welike to talk about here is the
business right and understandinghow people that are getting in
(07:34):
the business can be successful.
And so obviously you knowgroups like strategic coach,
gobundance there's tons of otherones that you can get involved
with.
It's a peer group and that's acoaching group.
And Strategic Coach is thelongest-running one, with Dan
Sullivan and Ben Hardy's wrote abunch of books, so that is
(07:58):
great.
So do you ascribe a lot toreading into Colby Print?
You know CliftonStrengths.
Do you analyze you guys?
Do you guys work with that?
So, as you've built up yourcompany, do you utilize those or
any other for analyzingpotential team members?
Adam Ferrara (08:23):
So what we are using Colby, I would say that
it's been a little bit of startsand fits and spurts, because
when we started in Fort Mill in2009 and 10, I expanded our
brand back down to Charleston,where I'm from, which is why we
(08:43):
opened this branch to targetsome of the potential North
Florida markets and the lowerpart of the South Carolina what
most people commonly refer to asthe low country, and we opened
this office in the summer of 17and quickly penetrated the
market because it's certainlystill somewhat of a good old boy
(09:05):
system and I'm a seventhgeneration Charlestonian and
grew up here and had plenty ofconnections, so I quickly jumped
into the market to take somemarket share.
But then COVID comes right.
So we're continuing to buildthrough COVID.
It is much slower and we didnot lay anybody off in COVID.
(09:27):
We kept going strong, but Iwould say that really created
some quicksand moments, right.
We were kind of stumblingthrough it and pushing and
working through it and it justalmost felt like it postponed
some of the inevitable, whichwas how to really grow this team
(09:48):
the right way.
So I went from our first team ofpeople and and recognized how
this team needed to operate hereand, and now we have an
excellent team in place thathave been in place for anywhere
from uh, we have some juniorguys here that have been in
place for anywhere from.
We have some junior guys herethat have been here six months
(10:08):
to folks that have been here forfour years at this point
post-COVID, and so we haven'tbeen able to really fully
implement it across the board.
But as we are hiring on newfolks, we are doing that to
evaluate our team and the waythat I can try to build that
(10:30):
team in a way that allows me tocontinue to explore my
entrepreneurial strengths andteam building strengths and to
really put the right people inplace to operate.
The day-to-day has been crucial, and that's something that I
don't want to overlook today isthe strength of our team.
Tony Johnson (10:49):
So, being the visionary side, you're the
future forward thinking piece inyour team.
So, as you are looking forwardand planning for your company's
growth, are you looking toexpand to other markets, grow
market share?
What is your vision and goalfor your company?
Adam Ferrara (11:11):
Well, as we know, it's organic, right, it's not
we're going to do this and thendo this and do this.
It sort of develops as themarket continues to work through
presidential cycles, as we workthrough the money cycle.
As we know, it tends to betougher one administration
(11:34):
versus the other.
So we've decided as a groupDavid Buess and I partnered with
another gentleman who hadexperience in the middle market
lending sector and was lendingmoney all across the country
with a large financing group tohelp with much larger
developments and that we'll callit the $20 million to $100
(11:54):
million scale range, and we wereable to create a separate
company called Vulcan PropertyGroup, where our goal is to
build 100 buildings over.
Originally it was five years andthen COVID kind of slowed it
down a little bit, so we backed,called Vulcan Property Group,
where our goal is to build 100buildings over.
Originally it was five yearsand then COVID kind of slowed it
down a little bit, so we backedthat up to 10 years and we are
on that path.
We have successfully built over35 buildings out of that 100 so
(12:20):
far and our goal is to long,long term, hold those and be the
landlord for those buildings,and that's really been great for
ferrera abuse, because ferreraabuse is a tool in that toolbox
to to build those buildings andavoid some of the pitfalls of
change orders and being nervousabout how to control cost, as
(12:42):
most developers are nervousabout that.
So we really help comfort notonly our developers that hire us
to build for them at FB, but weare having our lenders be very
comfortable with the fact thatwe are controlling costs on the
development side as well, sothat that that goes hand in hand
yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Tony Johnson (13:04):
Now are you guys taking private investors.
Are you allowing in privateinvestors or is everything just
through your partnership groupand private equity and lenders?
Adam Ferrara (13:16):
So it's interesting you ask that
question.
So the project size is going todrive that.
So if we have a project that'sin that million to three million
range, we're going to justhandle that in-house.
Let's say it's a two buildingdevelopment it's what some
people will call in the industryan unanchored retail.
Or let's say it's a couple of asmall little medical complex
(13:39):
with two or three buildings.
That might be a total of Idon't know 15,000 square feet.
We'll do that in-house.
We might bring in some friendsand family money, but that's
more of an offer than an ask,which is nice because it doesn't
put pressure on our family andfriends.
And then the other projects.
We delivered about $50 millionworth of new projects in 24.
(14:01):
That were larger centers.
I'm actually living in oneright now as a tenant which is
nice.
It's a five-buildingestablishment here at Point Hope
, the old Guggenheim property inClements Ferry Road, and we
have a medical office building.
We have three other retailbuildings where we have great
(14:22):
tenants like Dunkin' Donuts,firehouse Subs, domino's, some
doc offices and somehow FerrerAbuse squeezed out an office for
itself.
So we're kind of the theredhead stepchild of this retail
center, but it's this is a veryimportant corridor to our
market, which is why we're here.
Tony Johnson (14:43):
That's fantastic, yeah.
So having the ability to buildyour own it substantiates a lot,
so to speak, to what you weresaying.
When you're able to be thebuilder and develop the property
, not only does it make the bankfeel a little more comfortable,
because they understand thatyou're able to control those
(15:06):
costs and overruns a lot better,but it also saves from your
perspective because there's abuilt in.
So it's actually a lot of timesit's less money to have to
bring up front.
So the deal actually makes alot more sense when you're
underwriting it and you guys arenot only then being able to own
(15:27):
, operate and build up thatportfolio, but you're also
giving your company work right.
So you're keeping your, you'remaking sure you're you know you
can verify for your employees.
We have something.
Whether we land thiscompetitive bid or not, we've
got these backup plans right.
So you have definitely thoughtthat through.
(15:48):
That is fantastic.
So I love how you guys have putall that together and I like
the idea of the.
You've set the standard of thehundred buildings, but you
didn't.
A lot of people would specifyit as maybe a square foot under
(16:09):
management they're gonna get,but to just kind of throw out,
yeah, this amount of buildings.
I like that idea.
So, and you guys say that youare on path for that, that
you've done 35 out of the 100.
This is all great.
Your additional partner thatyou've brought in how did you
(16:32):
guys, when that came together,where does he fit in?
And how does he fit in on thatmix?
Typically a little bit moredifficult with three instead of
two.
Adam Ferrara (16:42):
For sure, for sure .
So the way we have, each of uskind of have our own lane, our
own sandbox.
So I'm here in Charleston and Iam a member of Vulcan Property
Group, as well as Ferrer Abuseand David and Scott operate out
of the Fort Mill office, becausethat's where their residences
are and kids are in school andwhatnot.
So we're we're all in our late40s, so we all stop kids in
(17:04):
school so that we're all doinglife together on the same
timeline.
That's part one.
Part two is you know, I don'twant this to kind of go without
saying you know, we're all godlymen, right?
We, we are Christians and we,we feel like that.
You know, we want to operateour business as such.
You know, we want to operateour business as such.
(17:25):
It's not about perfection,right, but it's about how to.
How, to just know we can put ourheads on our pillow at night
that we've done the right thingthat day.
It may not be the right thingfor the business, but it's the
right thing for the project andthe client.
And that's huge because we willhave to cut, take a cut
sometimes on ourselves becausewe just missed something right.
(17:49):
We have to make it right,whether it's on the development
side let's say it's signage orwhether it's on the construction
side.
We missed a pipe somewhere.
Whatever it is, we make thatproblem go away.
We don't just create some, youknow, like instant moment of
where we need to issue a changeorder.
(18:11):
So that's part two, but reallypart three is um Scott and I met
um uh through our church inFort Mill.
His wife, actually uh, was partuh associate pastor and baptized
my children, which is reallycool and um and, like I
mentioned before, our wives, onthe for our abuse side, our
wives grew up together and wentto college together, so there's
(18:33):
some really, you know, trust isbig.
But we don't have to wonder andtrust, right.
We don't wonder, like what theangle is when sometimes partners
have that like what's theirulterior motives?
We don't ever worry about thatbecause our wives will set us
straight immediately and we'reback in line.
(18:54):
So those are all key, keythings.
But Scott's a money guy, right.
So he's a Wake Forest guy.
You know degree in real estatefinance, he worked for the FDIC,
worked for Merrill and heworked for some middle market
lenders both stateside andabroad.
So he really has a uniqueperspective on what makes a deal
(19:17):
go right, what gets banksexcited.
Because he knows how to speakthat lingo.
So he brings that expertise.
I bring still the dreamdivision like oh, we can do this
.
This would be great.
Here's how we set it up, andDavid brings the okay.
Here's how we're going to getthe plans done.
So it's a really coolthree-legged stool, I guess, if
(19:39):
you want to call?
It that.
Tony Johnson (19:41):
I love to hear that.
That's awesome.
Yeah, so that is great.
You sound like you have a greatteam and it sounds like you
guys all align, bringing a greatvalue and complimenting one
another.
So let's talk a little bitabout your business operations
with the construction company,right?
So do you when you guys aredoing work, so you're doing 30%
(20:05):
of your 70% you're doing forclients.
So when you're doing that, doyou guys predominantly do design
, build, design, assist.
What are you guys mostsuccessful at as a contractor?
Adam Ferrara (20:22):
So you know, we certainly love the jobs that are
negotiated, okay, client says,hey, we're using you, um,
there's nobody else and we'regoing to manage the design
process.
We want to bring you in atsmall, you know, at, at value
engineering moments, um to totry to, you know, for the lay
person, opportunities to uh,have the same activity take
(20:45):
place.
It's the same result but maybeit saves money, right?
So that's that approach.
But where I learned about and Ican't take credit for it, but
where I learned the term designassist build was an architect
buddy of mine here in Charlestonwho we've done a lot of
projects with, and it stuck inmy mind for probably a year
(21:08):
before I was comfortable enoughto kind of put it onto our
website and point it in.
The design assist build isunique in that the client signs
a letter of intent with us.
They pay us a very, very smallfee to help corral the civil
engineer, the landscapearchitect, the MEP, structural
and architect all of thosedesign professionals are paid
(21:30):
directly by the client, right?
And so, for a matter of safety,liability is big in our
industry, right?
So the client and the architectown those drawings.
We don't own those drawings,right?
We're going to build what's onthe drawings.
But we have a part in saying,hey, you know, put this in that
recipe, put that in that recipe.
But the design assist portionis that we're part of the
(21:54):
communication with the architect, just like design build.
However, every lender wants anowner to at least get two prices
for a project and everynegotiated GC says, oh my gosh,
you're going to go put that onthe street to get a price
because you need a second price.
It's going to confuse oursubcontractors.
They're going to now wonder ifwe have the project.
(22:15):
So every story I told themabout having that project is now
maybe seems not so true.
So now I have egg on my face.
In this case, our client knowsthey can go get a price at any
moment because if they fall outof love with me during the
design build process and I'veseen that happen on more than a
dozen occasions they're stuckwith me because I own the
(22:37):
drawings and that's not fair tothem because it's their business
, it's their money, it's theirland.
Why would I make them beholdento me?
So I feel like if I give themthat freedom, right, it's, it's
that you know, you love it, letit go, and if it comes back,
it's yours.
If it doesn't, it never was.
So that's my approach to it andI really feel like that's the
(22:59):
best way to do it.
There's some risk, but I alsothink the reward is so much
better because you know they'resaying yes to you.
Tony Johnson (23:08):
They're not just feeling obligated.
Right and now, do you run inevery time when you're doing a
design, assist where you, wherethe owner is getting a second
price so I've had three ownersget a second price.
Adam Ferrara (23:28):
Inevitably, if they do, I don't ask them who
gave them the price.
I do ask them to send me aschedule of values that maybe
has some blinds on it, so thatwe can do a leveling of the bid.
I'll give you a great exampleAn ice cream shop we're building
(23:49):
right now.
They got a bid.
The bid was about 30 grand lessthan ours and I said I'm
scratching my head and I'mthinking there's no way that
this is possible.
I literally live next door tothe site and there's no way this
guy's that much less expensivethan us because we're cutting it
pretty thin, because we'reright next door and we're.
And lo and behold, there wereabout 10 items that added up to
(24:14):
about 60 000 that were just notthought about on either his part
or maybe they were shown.
As you know, um alternates orowner supplied, yeah, and you
know, and?
But but joe consumer doesn'tknow how to level set a bid and
we do so.
(24:34):
Um, it's cool because it keepsour pencil sharp and honest, but
it also gives them the comfortthat they've really paid us to
do something of value to them.
Tony Johnson (24:44):
We've got to bring value to the project yeah, I
mean, I think, I think that thatthat is fantastic.
Yeah, and in more times thannot, you know when you're going
and assisting on a design likethat, you're you're making sure
everything is covered.
So the the risk that you runinto, just like what you're
(25:05):
speaking of, is when they bringin that second party.
That second party is leavingthings off and so you know
that's where it comes in.
You know, you know aconstruction management company
potentially right, you don'tlike those, but it's the reality
is you have to have.
(25:27):
It's the risk that an owner runsinto to speak to you that they
don't have the knowledge andexpertise to understand is that
when you're going through thatiteration, that process, and
you're doing a design assist,you're making sure everything is
covered.
Then you bring in someone froma competitive bid standpoint and
(25:48):
they just want to do the bareminimum on the drawings and
might have a backside changeorder plan.
So they're doing a low numberand so, you know, doing a
disservice to your client.
So it's sometimes difficult tobe able to show them the bid
leveling.
It's sometimes where the ownersand where I run into this and
(26:12):
I'd love to get your insightwhere the owner doesn't allow or
doesn't state that they sayeverything just looks right and
you really have to have a strongrelationship built for that
owner to you know.
Allow you to do that.
You know how have you, how haveyou handled that to make sure
you overcome that hurdle?
Adam Ferrara (26:33):
So because we've, we've you know, professionally
speaking we've we've been in bedwith this owner for a year now,
right Through all theentitlements, through the
permitting, and I haven't goneinto that portion of it when we
help them find land, andsometimes we help with finance
acquisition that's the advantageof being a developer we can
(26:55):
really give them the comfort.
Not only do we know we can doit for you, but we can show you.
We've done it for us on dozensof occasions.
So it's that's almost like a oh, it's not really a big deal and
it's not so overwhelming.
And when you can bring themthrough your project in real
life, that's part one.
But part two is when theyalmost look at you like you're
crazy when you say, hey, wewould encourage you to get
(27:16):
another bid.
I want them to get another bidevery time because I want my
estimating department and mypre-construction team to see
like, oh, I could get this donefor that price, if that in fact
is an accurate price.
But so, but the other the otherportion is too we have a really
(27:36):
unique checklist for ourdevelopment, of our projects.
That is is something only adeveloper that's very seasoned
would know how to put together.
We open up the coffers on allof our goodies that we use to do
(27:57):
development.
With all of our clients thatwant to do development
especially the first timeclients that are doctors that
love to occupy 51 percent oftheir building because they want
to rent out the balance of itand the bank loves it because
they're a doctor and they'reunder occupied we can really
help them navigate that process.
And I've had clients where I'vesaid, hey, let me see your
business plan, can you getfinancing for this?
(28:20):
And I ask that, with all duerespect, let us help you with
that.
So we do a lot of businesscoaching without really
advertising that.
We do business coaching and youknow, I know we're doing it
well, or well enough, becauseour trade partners are coming to
me asking for help to developtheir own spaces, which is
(28:44):
really really flattering basis,which is really really
flattering.
And the last part is you knowthe simple questions like hey,
did that contractor look at thelandlord work letter?
If it's a first generationspace, oh, I didn't send that to
them.
Well, how do they know what thelandlord's promising you versus
what you need to put in, versuswhat the other GC needs to put
(29:05):
on this quote what you need toput in versus what the other GC
needs to put on his quote.
And that very thing happened toone of our other clients
building a pizza shop inSomerville, south Carolina.
The landlord missed about$20,000 worth of work.
Another GC would have just putit in his price right, because
they walked a space that's notthere.
Well, I went to the owner andsaid, hey, this landlord owes
(29:26):
you this work.
It's not in your drawings.
We need to reconcile that.
And it was like a headscratching moment like, oh my
gosh, you just saved me $20,000.
So I just love those likelittle wins and that gets me
super excited.
Um, to do what we do that's,that's amazing, you know.
Tony Johnson (29:49):
It speaks um kind of volumes to who you are as a
person.
So that you know to go back tospeaking of yourself earlier
godly men, uh, you and yourpartners, so that that is true
and it's, it's refreshing tohear something like that.
You know, being in thisindustry, coming upon 20 years,
you know I don't run into a lotof people that are in this
industry that have and hold thathonesty side.
(30:10):
It's.
You're a lot of people that arein this industry that have and
hold that honesty side.
It's a lot of times fighting totry and be honest with clients,
because there's a lot ofdeception, unfortunately in our
industry and fighting that whenyou're trying to be that honest
contractor is a difficultbalance beam you have to walk in
order to be successful becauseyou, with every new client, have
(30:34):
to validate, you know andjustify that up forward and
being honest and, you know,building that trust when you
have a lot of times in acompetitive environment, a lot
of things that you have toovercome and explain to a client
.
So you really have to work hardto be able to do that.
Adam Ferrara (30:56):
Yeah, I think.
I think focusing on you knowwhen we're and I'll tell a
client hey, let's fast forward,and you're done.
You know you're feeling excited.
Your doors are open.
You're nervous.
You know you want you to besuccessful financially.
The last thing you need to bethinking about is oh my gosh,
I've got a daycare opening upAugust 15th.
(31:16):
We don't have our CEO yet.
Or I forgot to coordinate withDHEC.
You know we understand that wealso own several daycares as
developers too, so I guessthere's a lot of I don't want to
use the word cheat codes,because we've earned it.
Right, we took the knocks on thehead but the ability to get
(31:38):
them to focus on how they'regoing to feel once the doors are
open, letting us solve theproblem and delivering a great
product, and then all the behindthe scenes scuttle that takes
place between contractors andarchitects.
We really, really, really takethat same approach with our
owners to defend our designteams, because if you take an
(32:04):
let's just say it's a hard bidsituation, you're bidding
against 10 other GCs right, it'shighly competitive, such as
public work and you've got let'ssay it's, you know a school
district or something that'sbuilding a $30 million school.
You're going to have very, verylow bids and you're going to
have massive change orders.
(32:25):
Right, it's that old, you know,the picture of a dinghy is the
contract and the picture of theyacht is the change order.
Old, you know, the picture of adinghy is the contract and the
picture of the yacht the changeorder.
But we make sure, because 90%of our work is either design,
assist, build or negotiated, orit's for our own development
(32:45):
company we really make sure thatour civil engineers and our
architects really understand andappreciate that we are going to
and our architects reallyunderstand and appreciate that
we are going to.
We have a little bit ofconstruction contingency and
design contingency in ournumbers, right, a couple of
percent.
But then the balance of it ishow are we communicating the
issue and are we bringing threesolutions to that problem, not
(33:13):
just pointing a finger in a copy?
All email oh, your architect'swindow is five feet off on the
exterior versus the interior andit's, you know, in the way of a
door that has to do with yourlife safety of getting in and
out of this building.
Right, I mean something thatcould create a massive cost
change order.
We don't.
It's not that we're hiding itfrom the customer.
It's just that, hey, let'sassess what the risk is, how do
(33:35):
we solve that risk and what'sthe absolute best case scenario?
First, then we call thearchitect or the civil and we
then say, hey, this is what wesee, here's how we think we can
fix it.
What's your opinion about thebest way to approach this?
And that also speaks volumes,because that's how we're going
(33:56):
to get referrals from architects.
They're not going to refer jobsto contractors that run them
through the mud, unless they'rejust the cheapest contractor,
and they always get work becausethe developer wants what they
perceive as inexpensive.
But eventually you get what youpay for.
Tony Johnson (34:14):
Absolutely yeah.
So if somebody's trying to holdon to a building, which is
speak to you, if you're going tobe occupying 51% of a building
a lot of times, you would reallyneed to pause if you want to go
with that lowest bid, becauseyou're going to be dealing with
that building for years to come.
So the initial costs in thelong term is going to be a big
(34:35):
problem for you.
All right, so just real quick.
I know you've mentioned itagain, so could you, for the
listeners, just explain whenyou're saying you design assist
or negotiated?
Can you explain?
Now we've discussed your designassist.
Can you explain negotiated?
For the listener?
Adam Ferrara (34:54):
Absolutely so.
I'll give you a great example.
We are working with a corporatedaycare brand out of the
Midwest right now on a projectin the Carolinas.
And they are they've selected asite, they have a construction
manager in-house.
They've selected a site, theyhave a construction manager
(35:14):
in-house right, that's his jobto do all of those
pre-development exercises.
You've got to have your soilstudies, potentially a phase one
to environmental trafficstudies, whatever that
municipality or highestauthority of jurisdiction
requires.
Beyond that, they can ask ushey, we're not in market, can
you recommend a civil or anarchitect?
And we will, we'll recommendtwo of each and then or they may
(35:38):
not ask for that at all theymay say, hey, we've already got
our architect because it's abrand, right, and they're just
repeating that brand with ourcodes.
And we've got our civil.
We're going to have a designkickoff meeting.
And what that design kickoffmeeting includes?
Us in the design from A rightalpha to omega, a to Z, and we
(36:03):
are advertising opportunities tokeep dollars under control,
whether it's you know wall types, you know truss heights, wood,
truss, metal those are sometimescommonly referred to as a 2B
building or a 5B building, andthen we will give them guidance
(36:25):
on hey, I know this municipalitylikes X in their drawings or Y,
because we've experienced it.
So we're just providing, notlike a tour.
I would classify this.
We're a.
We're like a very experiencedtour guide on the design assist
bill.
We're more of a abbreviatedtour guide on the negotiated
(36:48):
Right.
We're giving them the highpoints but we're not.
We're.
We've been brought along tothat party.
We're not running as a host.
Tony Johnson (36:59):
Yes.
So now when we're talking so inother words, you know, just to
clarify it real so when he'sdoing the design assist, he is
bringing the recommendedarchitecture, pulling all those
relationships and still steeringand guiding the ship in the
design assist, in the negotiated, he is present and there, but
(37:23):
not really the captain of theship.
He's a side piece on the ship.
He's there because they wanthis input along the way, kind of
as a consultant type of feel.
That would be kind of how Iwould try and describe it.
Now, when we talk before right,when we're doing the design
assist and you guys are doingthose right, you're getting an
(37:46):
LOI, you're doing that.
So how are you protectingyourself for negotiated work?
Adam Ferrara (37:55):
Sure.
So when you say protectingourselves with the design assist
build, you know in theory it'swe're trusting that the owner is
going to hire us becausethey've seen the goodwill,
they've seen the time.
There is a tiny kicker wherethe client, if we do charge them
a small fee for that designassist bill process, we actually
(38:18):
do honor it and give them aprice reduction.
So let's say they give us adeposit of $15,000 to manage the
entire design process and getpermitting which could take
anywhere from 12 to 18 monthshere in the low country process,
and get permitting which couldtake anywhere from 12 to 18
months here in the low country,a while, or add another six
months for SBA financing.
Then yeah, so I would say froma contractual standpoint there
(38:45):
is no guarantee, but what ourcontract does promise is they
give us last look.
Tony Johnson (38:55):
Yeah, Right.
So you know, and the reasonthat I wanted to bring that up
is because you know and we wereabout the same thing, right, and
the reality is you know you'redoing this as a service to help
the client.
This is not.
You are not making money.
If you broke this down to hoursspent into these projects,
(39:17):
you're making pennies on yourtime.
You're doing all of this workand putting in all the effort to
help that client under theassumption that you're getting
the job, because you're reallynot trying.
You're just trying to putsomething.
So you're trying to state, hey,um, you know with, because in
(39:40):
time in time, a lot of peoplethat are newer to contracting
would do all that for free andthen get bypassed and lose it.
So you're just trying to give alittle bit of a nudge to say
you know, uh, you know, just,you know, at least pay me for
what I'm doing.
But you know that is not reallywhat that's there for.
It's just kind of like cause,realistically, you're almost
(40:02):
this whole year, year and a halfthat you're putting in is
almost for free.
It's just kind of something totie yourself to it really.
Adam Ferrara (40:18):
It's a lost leader , for sure.
But let me tell you what itdoes.
Tell me, if a client is notwilling to pay me $10,000 or
$15,000 to basically quarterbackthe entire process for them so
that they can manage and runtheir business, they're telling
me that they don't believe intheir business enough to invest
in it, because they're going tobe shocked when they see the
prices from commercialarchitects to design unique
(40:40):
one-off projects.
Those range in between $30,000to $200,000.
And the civil engineering isalso very similar in between
$20,000 to $100,000, dependingon the site size and complexity
and the municipality.
If they don't want to invest inthemselves and I'm relatively
blunt with them in a very, veryprofessional way I say, hey, you
(41:02):
know, because some people havesaid why am I paying you that?
Well, I'm giving it back to youwhen we go to start your
project and I promise you thatWell, I'm giving it back to you
when we go to start your projectand I promise you I am.
It is a line item in there andwe don't inflate the numbers to
just offset it.
It's honest truth, it's justthe integrity that we work with
and I'll say, hey, it'simportant for these designers
(41:27):
and your lender and yourinvestors, potentially, or your
partners and your employees, tosee that you're willing to
invest in your business and ifnow is not the right time, we
want to be here for you when itis.
But I've had clients thatdidn't want to do it and their
projects still haven't happenedyet.
Tony Johnson (41:44):
Well, yeah, that's typically it.
So it's a call sign for me thatif they're not going to do it
then it's not probably a realproject you, it's probably not
(42:13):
the best client for you, becauseif they don't see value in you
just from this standpoint, thenhow much value are they really
putting on you during theproject?
That might be the type ofclient that's going to try and
override you, try and go on andthat you're going to have issues
with later within theconstruction process.
So it could be a leadingindicator that this isn't the
right relationship and beware.
So just something to put outthere.
(42:34):
One last thing before we finishup Adam and I've really enjoyed
our conversation Could you tellme, you know, with the
evolution of technology rightnow in the industry it's there's
a lot happening.
So I know, just with my company, ai, we're trying to just keep
(42:55):
up with it.
Right, there are so many thingshappening.
How are you guys handling allthe technology changes with AI
and worrying about robotics andlabor capacity?
How are you guys trying tothink of that moving forward?
Adam Ferrara (43:13):
So because we're not really in a production area
environment such as a merchantbuilder is building the same
model in a neighborhood you knowa hundred times over, but we
are building unique, one-offbuildings.
I would say on the labor side,with respect to the real
construction, we haven't reallyimplemented anything new.
In that respect I would saywe're implementing more
(43:36):
oversight with our cameraingsystems and how those are
integrated within our software,like Red Team is one of the
softwares we use.
We did move from Procore.
It just was not the best fitfor us.
Red Team was designed by a GCso we used them and we are using
on the what I would say thatearly on stages right, the
(44:00):
diligence period, the sitestudying oh my gosh, I cannot
tell you how many times I'musing my phone to pull up you
know land glide to pull up landinformation.
Know land glide to pull up landinformation, using, you know
Mosher to measure.
You know site topo.
Even though we don't have muchdown here topography, we have a
lot up in Charlotte.
(44:21):
We're using AI you know, testfit to help forecast what a site
could look like, because maybethe civil engineer doesn't have
time to draw us a concept planfor a site, whereas I remember
when I first started on theresidential side, I was hand
drawing some of these smalladditions that we were doing,
(44:41):
because it was within thefootprint of the home, maybe we
were adding a second story to agarage or something.
So, between our projectmanagement software, the way
that we're communicatinginterpersonally within our teams
, our short and long-term videocameraing systems Blue Ox is
(45:02):
another great one that does somelike you can see your project
compressed into like 30 secondsfrom start to finish, which is
really cool.
Um, and certainly we're going,we're staying with the uh, the
um, the uh back to our normalstable efforts with like
obviously we we use dronetechnology to to to see what's
going on with our sites, uh, inprogress on a monthly basis.
(45:25):
We work with a company thatdoes that for us.
So so I would say that you knowwe're investing a solid percent
and a half to 2% of our totalvolume in that type of
technology as a matter of ourgross sales, and hopefully that
(45:47):
answered your question.
Tony Johnson (45:48):
That was a fantastic answer.
So there was a lot of greattidbits in there on some of the
new products that you mentioned.
And to go back to what also youmentioned, I was just on a call
earlier today regarding Procore.
So that's a challengingsoftware because it's an
industry standard, I would saysoftware for project management.
(46:11):
It's got a lot of complaintsfrom a GC side.
So when you say, yeah, Red Teamwas created by a GC, Procore is
one of those companies thatdoes not look out for the client
.
It's more of a gotcha bait andswitch company.
Adam Ferrara (46:39):
It's a pay for play platform and as it has
gotten bigger, it's gotten moreexpensive.
You would think, as it's gottenbigger and more subscribers,
that they could maybe have allbetter offerings to the you know
, your I don't know what theterm is your original users.
But yeah, it can't be.
The barrier to entry cannot beso painful financially and the
(47:01):
simple fact that the deal killerfor me with Procore and we told
them this about 38 times in athree-year period was we could
not run our scheduling throughProcore.
You have to schedule outside ofProcore and then dump into
Procore.
Well, quite frankly, we couldjust have our own Google Docs
(47:22):
and do the same thing, and it'snot.
You know, it was awesome forpictures, it was awesome for
RFIs and and whatnot andsubmittals, but it's just not
that good for the laysuperintendent yeah, absolutely
yeah.
Tony Johnson (47:37):
And so what he's saying is one of the big
disadvantages of Procore is theyhave a basically a third party
or it's kind of a Procore drivethat you take your Microsoft
project scheduling software andyou can't update.
You have to go through a driveand go in and update.
You can't just go within thisvery expensive software and
(48:01):
adjust your schedule.
You have to go into thesecondary program outside, go
through basically a port andalmost integrate it in.
It's the craziest thing I'veever seen in my life for a
software that costs such an armand a leg, like three times what
every other one costs it's.
Adam Ferrara (48:18):
Yeah, you know you've got your other ones that
are great for residential use,but you know we found that the
the switch to red team you knowswitching is always painful,
right and.
but I will tell you that youknow, when you go back um, to
remembering what it used to belike, versus how you then
(48:38):
operate, then you're like, oh mygosh, this is so much better,
um it.
You don't want to keep goingback to the same old thing, the
um, uh.
It's probably not PC to saythat kind of the beaten wife
syndrome.
You just keep coming back to itand you just feel terror.
You just feel like, oh, I'mjust used to it, so I'll just
(48:59):
keep coming back to it.
It should not do that in anybusiness.
If you feel in your gut thatsomething's not running the way,
it should research, chat, gpt,it, whatever you figure it out,
um and and, uh, and, yeah, youknow, don't, don't ever just
stay status quo, um, becauseevery business really should be
organic.
Uh, in most cases, even the,even the large franchises,
(49:22):
should still be able to thinkautonomously, to function in
some capacity.
Tony Johnson (49:27):
Absolutely yeah, and so, uh, you know, just to
reiterate what he was saying,red team is who they're using,
which is a very good alternativeplatform.
Autodesk is another one that ismore expansive than Red Team
and offers more alignment withProcore.
I mean, they are a biggercompany and they actually offer
(49:49):
even more things than Procore.
So other alternatives to lookat in the market.
So, yeah, to that point I'llleave it alone, but you know, I
would wish that that softwarewould kind of more engage,
because you don't hear a lot ofpositive information in the
marketplace.
Adam Ferrara (50:09):
Tony, I can promise you David Buse, my
partner, who will listen to thispodcast at some point, is going
to be so excited that you and Iare fighting for the little guy
.
He is a yeah, it was just notgood.
So it's, but we're really happywith the change and but I don't
know how much more time we haveleft.
(50:29):
I just want to be verycognizant and give a shout out
to the total team.
Right?
So my wife is our HR manager.
She has a master's inaccounting from Clemson and she
manages all of our HR personnel,onboarding and whatnot, so
she's part of this as a family.
David's wife manages our socialmedia and controls the outward
(50:54):
presence of what we'representing to the public and our
team as a whole.
We have a staff of 28 stronginternally within our both
offices and we could not do whatwe do without our team, and
that you know.
A lot of business owners willsay that and I believe they mean
it, but I can assure you mylimit of reading capacity is 40
(51:20):
pages, which is the length ofour contracts, and because you
know, every entrepreneurialowner like me that's the ideas
guy is ADD and I'm sure you'vepicked up on it.
But I have to have very, verydetailed people and God has
blessed me with a beautiful wife, three great kids, and we have
(51:42):
money people.
We have non-risk takers, wehave more non-risk takers, and
then we have finance guys and wejust have this awesome team of
construction professionals, fromPMs to superintendents we call
them construction managersbecause we want them to really
own their projects and ouroffice staff, Julie and Alana.
(52:06):
So we just are very blessed tohave the team we have and could
not do it without them, and I'mgrateful that they allow me to
have the flexibility to take aWednesday.
I take every Wednesday as awhat's your teacher coach?
Call it A free day.
Tony Johnson (52:22):
Free day.
My free day is not Focus, focussuffering free day.
Adam Ferrara (52:27):
That's my free day to go out and explore new
projects to help grow thesebusinesses and see what else is
out there.
Man.
Tony Johnson (52:34):
Hey, well, yeah, I love that that's and explore
new projects to help grow thesebusinesses and see what else is
out there.
Man, hey, well, yeah, I lovethat.
That's fantastic and Iappreciate you taking the time
to talk about your team.
Now, if someone wants to findyou guys on social media, what
social media platform are youthe most active on and what
would be the handle we'relooking for?
Adam Ferrara (52:52):
active on and what would be the handle we're
looking for?
Yeah, so so our uh Facebook umfor our abuse contractors.
Let's see, uh, I have peoplethat know all these things Um
we'll, we'll find you on there.
Tony Johnson (53:07):
Yeah, for our contractors on uh.
Adam Ferrara (53:08):
Facebook.
Facebook is is where you guysare the most active, but we're
active on Facebook, uh uh, twotimes a week, but we're active
on Facebook two times a weekminimum.
And LinkedIn.
We're very active on LinkedIn,whether it's through our
successes in our projects,philanthropic efforts with with
our various municipalities andcounties.
So both are for air abusecontractors on that.
Tony Johnson (53:35):
I love it.
A lot of similarities in theways we do business, so it's
been an absolute pleasure havingyou on today, adam.
Thanks so much.
Hopefully maybe we can get youon another time later down the
road.
It's been fantastic and Iappreciate your time and we'll
put all the links to your socialmedia in the chat and we'll put
all the links to your socialmedia in the chat, and thanks
(53:56):
again for joining us.
Adam Ferrara (53:57):
Sir, I do want to give a quick shout out to
Charlotte Berger and her team atCBPR, who helped arrange this.
So thank you to them and thankyou to you and your platform.
I've enjoyed listening to yourpodcast on some of the cost seg
stuff and some of the other GCrelated things, and I've
(54:18):
actually forwarded your podcastto all of my team through our
company to listen to to, to growtheir their knowledge base.
So thank you so much for allyou do.
Tony Johnson (54:28):
Awesome.
Thanks again.
Appreciate it, adam.
All right, have a great day youtoo, sir.
Thanks for joining Timeless Business and Building
Strategies today.
This is Tony Johnson here.
I've got Adam Ferreira with me.
Adam, how are you doing today,sir?
Adam Ferrara (00:14):
I'm doing well, tony, thank you.
Tony Johnson (00:16):
Yes, sir, and Adam is a partner and owner of Fiera
and Boost Contractors.
I probably mangled that name.
So, adam, you could probablyrestate your company's name and
we'll get into it.
Adam Ferrara (00:32):
Let's give it a shot.
So Ferreira Boost Contractors.
It's definitely a mouthful, buteventually it just kind of
sinks in.
Definitely a mouthful, buteventually it just kind of sinks
in.
Tony Johnson (00:44):
Yeah, it's cool.
It sounds like a sports carkind of setup.
Adam Ferrara (00:50):
I was one letter away from being very, very
wealthy.
Tony Johnson (00:52):
That's right.
You were close, you were righton the cusp.
Yeah, so you guys are inCharleston and Fort Mill, south
Carolina.
You're a commercial generalcontractor and you also have a
development arm.
So, adam, thank you so much forjoining us today.
(01:13):
Could you give us a littlebackground?
Adam Ferrara (01:15):
of how you got into the business, how long
you've been in the business?
Yeah for sure.
So I was a graduate of theCollege of Charleston in 2000
and a very good friend of minewho went to the Citadel turned
me on to a job with John WhelanHomes.
They're a very successful homebuilder out of Atlanta and that
was my first rodeo here inCharleston.
(01:36):
And then, right after September11, 2001, a lot of people
remember that day I moved toCharlotte, north Carolina, to
transfer with John Whelan Homesthey had a successful division
up there and went to aneighborhood south of Charlotte
(01:58):
and was very successful thereand built my first home there as
well, was very successful thereand built my first home there
as well my first personalresidence at the age of 25.
And then, I guess, I was noticedby one of John Whelan's
competitors, toll Brothers, outof Horsham, pennsylvania, and I
took a quick promotion to aproject manager with Toll
(02:22):
Brothers at a neighborhood thatwas just down the street there
in Charlotte and continued onwith them for about two and a
half years until the end of 2007, where, as we all know, there
was a tremendous amount ofmarket turbulence.
Some people crashed and burnedand through those ashes, new
(02:46):
people tended to crop up.
So that was where I was able tostart my own company at that
point in time.
I just named it after my wife.
Her name is Becky, it's calledBeck Design Group and we were
just doing additions andrenovations at that time and it
(03:06):
was very much so wildlysuccessful because it was a
bedroom community of Charlotte,which is a huge banking city, as
most people know.
We just were effectivelyfollowing the money.
I went to some local branchesand just simply said, hey, where
are you lending money?
And then we started targetingthose types of projects.
(03:27):
So fast forward a few years.
And then I continued on withthe home building side.
Some new home building wascropping up and, as 2010, 11 was
moving along and people wereready to get back to work.
And I twisted my businesspartner's arm, david Bust, who
(03:50):
was working for his family'scommercial construction company
in Florida, to move up to FortMill and give it a chance and
grow his family and grow mine.
And that's how we got startedat Ferrer Abuse.
Thank goodness to our wives,who grew up together in Anderson
(04:10):
, south Carolina, who introducedus.
Tony Johnson (04:12):
So that was kind of how it all came together.
Fantastic.
So you and David started yourcompany what year?
Adam Ferrara (04:22):
It was the summer of 2009.
It was when we filed and wewere off to the races.
We were literally sharing onedesk and one key man office in
Fort Mill, South Carolina.
I had one, one laptop on oneside and he had one on the other
.
And you know, just just likeevery small business starts from
(04:45):
humble beginnings, that was ourkickoff.
Tony Johnson (04:51):
I love it.
So you know you.
Obviously you know we don'tknow each other.
Your story aligns significantlywith my story, so you know it's
very cool to hear I don't heara lot of people.
You know starting that'sexactly.
Well, I started my company in2007, but you know you started
(05:12):
your first company then and soyou know amazing things happen
in that crash the massive crashand people did come out of the
ashes and business started up.
So when you guys started in2009, uh and you partnered up.
So it sounds like the primarilywhat you were doing prior to
(05:32):
getting david involved is wasall residential remodels and
looking at some new homeconstruction.
Uh, with that bringing him fromthe commercial side up.
Did you have any commercialexperience before he joined you?
Adam Ferrara (05:48):
Other than doing a couple of small office outfits,
I would say from a complexitystandpoint, I had little to no
commercial experience to speakof.
Tony Johnson (05:57):
And so, with with him coming in, which one of you
is the visionary and which oneis more the operator type of
person.
Adam Ferrara (06:07):
Yep, I'm the visionary.
I am I'll touch on this later,but it's learned in strategic
coach with Dan Sullivan I'm.
I'm the entrepreneur thathappens to be a general
contractor.
I hold the licensure for thecompany and I have.
I'm the entrepreneur thathappens to be a general
(06:28):
contractor.
I hold the licensure for thecompany and I have.
I'm the connector of people.
Tony Johnson (06:32):
I am the kind of the hey guys we can do it.
Adam Ferrara (06:33):
I'm the cheerleader, the coach, and try
to build the biggest tablepossible is my focus.
And David is an engineer, agraduate of Clemson and civil
engineering.
He is a nuts and bolts guy.
I can't promise you he doesn'thave one brown and one brown
sock on and one black sock on,but he knows how to read a set
(06:55):
of drawings and he's very, verygood at helping people realize
that their plans can be built.
And I'm more of the cheerleaderfor the, the cheerleader for
those business owners to helpthem understand that.
Uh, hey, let us do, let us dothe heavy lifting of the
building so we can get you guysto work, to do what you're good
at.
Tony Johnson (07:14):
I love that.
Yeah, well, that that'sfantastic.
So you guys did both of you dostrategic coach, or just you.
I did strategic coach.
Um yep coach or just you?
I did strategic coach, yep, sothat's fantastic.
So you know a lot of what welike to talk about here is the
business right and understandinghow people that are getting in
(07:34):
the business can be successful.
And so obviously you knowgroups like strategic coach,
gobundance there's tons of otherones that you can get involved
with.
It's a peer group and that's acoaching group.
And Strategic Coach is thelongest-running one, with Dan
Sullivan and Ben Hardy's wrote abunch of books, so that is
(07:58):
great.
So do you ascribe a lot toreading into Colby Print?
You know CliftonStrengths.
Do you analyze you guys?
Do you guys work with that?
So, as you've built up yourcompany, do you utilize those or
any other for analyzingpotential team members?
Adam Ferrara (08:23):
So what we are using Colby, I would say that
it's been a little bit of startsand fits and spurts, because
when we started in Fort Mill in2009 and 10, I expanded our
brand back down to Charleston,where I'm from, which is why we
(08:43):
opened this branch to targetsome of the potential North
Florida markets and the lowerpart of the South Carolina what
most people commonly refer to asthe low country, and we opened
this office in the summer of 17and quickly penetrated the
market because it's certainlystill somewhat of a good old boy
(09:05):
system and I'm a seventhgeneration Charlestonian and
grew up here and had plenty ofconnections, so I quickly jumped
into the market to take somemarket share.
But then COVID comes right.
So we're continuing to buildthrough COVID.
It is much slower and we didnot lay anybody off in COVID.
(09:27):
We kept going strong, but Iwould say that really created
some quicksand moments, right.
We were kind of stumblingthrough it and pushing and
working through it and it justalmost felt like it postponed
some of the inevitable, whichwas how to really grow this team
(09:48):
the right way.
So I went from our first team ofpeople and and recognized how
this team needed to operate hereand, and now we have an
excellent team in place thathave been in place for anywhere
from uh, we have some juniorguys here that have been in
place for anywhere from.
We have some junior guys herethat have been here six months
(10:08):
to folks that have been here forfour years at this point
post-COVID, and so we haven'tbeen able to really fully
implement it across the board.
But as we are hiring on newfolks, we are doing that to
evaluate our team and the waythat I can try to build that
(10:30):
team in a way that allows me tocontinue to explore my
entrepreneurial strengths andteam building strengths and to
really put the right people inplace to operate.
The day-to-day has been crucial, and that's something that I
don't want to overlook today isthe strength of our team.
Tony Johnson (10:49):
So, being the visionary side, you're the
future forward thinking piece inyour team.
So, as you are looking forwardand planning for your company's
growth, are you looking toexpand to other markets, grow
market share?
What is your vision and goalfor your company?
Adam Ferrara (11:11):
Well, as we know, it's organic, right, it's not
we're going to do this and thendo this and do this.
It sort of develops as themarket continues to work through
presidential cycles, as we workthrough the money cycle.
As we know, it tends to betougher one administration
(11:34):
versus the other.
So we've decided as a groupDavid Buess and I partnered with
another gentleman who hadexperience in the middle market
lending sector and was lendingmoney all across the country
with a large financing group tohelp with much larger
developments and that we'll callit the $20 million to $100
(11:54):
million scale range, and we wereable to create a separate
company called Vulcan PropertyGroup, where our goal is to
build 100 buildings over.
Originally it was five years andthen COVID kind of slowed it
down a little bit, so we backed,called Vulcan Property Group,
where our goal is to build 100buildings over.
Originally it was five yearsand then COVID kind of slowed it
down a little bit, so we backedthat up to 10 years and we are
on that path.
We have successfully built over35 buildings out of that 100 so
(12:20):
far and our goal is to long,long term, hold those and be the
landlord for those buildings,and that's really been great for
ferrera abuse, because ferreraabuse is a tool in that toolbox
to to build those buildings andavoid some of the pitfalls of
change orders and being nervousabout how to control cost, as
(12:42):
most developers are nervousabout that.
So we really help comfort notonly our developers that hire us
to build for them at FB, but weare having our lenders be very
comfortable with the fact thatwe are controlling costs on the
development side as well, sothat that that goes hand in hand
yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Tony Johnson (13:04):
Now are you guys taking private investors.
Are you allowing in privateinvestors or is everything just
through your partnership groupand private equity and lenders?
Adam Ferrara (13:16):
So it's interesting you ask that
question.
So the project size is going todrive that.
So if we have a project that'sin that million to three million
range, we're going to justhandle that in-house.
Let's say it's a two buildingdevelopment it's what some
people will call in the industryan unanchored retail.
Or let's say it's a couple of asmall little medical complex
(13:39):
with two or three buildings.
That might be a total of Idon't know 15,000 square feet.
We'll do that in-house.
We might bring in some friendsand family money, but that's
more of an offer than an ask,which is nice because it doesn't
put pressure on our family andfriends.
And then the other projects.
We delivered about $50 millionworth of new projects in 24.
(14:01):
That were larger centers.
I'm actually living in oneright now as a tenant which is
nice.
It's a five-buildingestablishment here at Point Hope
, the old Guggenheim property inClements Ferry Road, and we
have a medical office building.
We have three other retailbuildings where we have great
(14:22):
tenants like Dunkin' Donuts,firehouse Subs, domino's, some
doc offices and somehow FerrerAbuse squeezed out an office for
itself.
So we're kind of the theredhead stepchild of this retail
center, but it's this is a veryimportant corridor to our
market, which is why we're here.
Tony Johnson (14:43):
That's fantastic, yeah.
So having the ability to buildyour own it substantiates a lot,
so to speak, to what you weresaying.
When you're able to be thebuilder and develop the property
, not only does it make the bankfeel a little more comfortable,
because they understand thatyou're able to control those
(15:06):
costs and overruns a lot better,but it also saves from your
perspective because there's abuilt in.
So it's actually a lot of timesit's less money to have to
bring up front.
So the deal actually makes alot more sense when you're
underwriting it and you guys arenot only then being able to own
(15:27):
, operate and build up thatportfolio, but you're also
giving your company work right.
So you're keeping your, you'remaking sure you're you know you
can verify for your employees.
We have something.
Whether we land thiscompetitive bid or not, we've
got these backup plans right.
So you have definitely thoughtthat through.
(15:48):
That is fantastic.
So I love how you guys have putall that together and I like
the idea of the.
You've set the standard of thehundred buildings, but you
didn't.
A lot of people would specifyit as maybe a square foot under
(16:09):
management they're gonna get,but to just kind of throw out,
yeah, this amount of buildings.
I like that idea.
So, and you guys say that youare on path for that, that
you've done 35 out of the 100.
This is all great.
Your additional partner thatyou've brought in how did you
(16:32):
guys, when that came together,where does he fit in?
And how does he fit in on thatmix?
Typically a little bit moredifficult with three instead of
two.
Adam Ferrara (16:42):
For sure, for sure .
So the way we have, each of uskind of have our own lane, our
own sandbox.
So I'm here in Charleston and Iam a member of Vulcan Property
Group, as well as Ferrer Abuseand David and Scott operate out
of the Fort Mill office, becausethat's where their residences
are and kids are in school andwhatnot.
So we're we're all in our late40s, so we all stop kids in
(17:04):
school so that we're all doinglife together on the same
timeline.
That's part one.
Part two is you know, I don'twant this to kind of go without
saying you know, we're all godlymen, right?
We, we are Christians and we,we feel like that.
You know, we want to operateour business as such.
You know, we want to operateour business as such.
(17:25):
It's not about perfection,right, but it's about how to.
How, to just know we can put ourheads on our pillow at night
that we've done the right thingthat day.
It may not be the right thingfor the business, but it's the
right thing for the project andthe client.
And that's huge because we willhave to cut, take a cut
sometimes on ourselves becausewe just missed something right.
(17:49):
We have to make it right,whether it's on the development
side let's say it's signage orwhether it's on the construction
side.
We missed a pipe somewhere.
Whatever it is, we make thatproblem go away.
We don't just create some, youknow, like instant moment of
where we need to issue a changeorder.
(18:11):
So that's part two, but reallypart three is um Scott and I met
um uh through our church inFort Mill.
His wife, actually uh, was partuh associate pastor and baptized
my children, which is reallycool and um and, like I
mentioned before, our wives, onthe for our abuse side, our
wives grew up together and wentto college together, so there's
(18:33):
some really, you know, trust isbig.
But we don't have to wonder andtrust, right.
We don't wonder, like what theangle is when sometimes partners
have that like what's theirulterior motives?
We don't ever worry about thatbecause our wives will set us
straight immediately and we'reback in line.
(18:54):
So those are all key, keythings.
But Scott's a money guy, right.
So he's a Wake Forest guy.
You know degree in real estatefinance, he worked for the FDIC,
worked for Merrill and heworked for some middle market
lenders both stateside andabroad.
So he really has a uniqueperspective on what makes a deal
(19:17):
go right, what gets banksexcited.
Because he knows how to speakthat lingo.
So he brings that expertise.
I bring still the dreamdivision like oh, we can do this
.
This would be great.
Here's how we set it up, andDavid brings the okay.
Here's how we're going to getthe plans done.
So it's a really coolthree-legged stool, I guess, if
(19:39):
you want to call?
It that.
Tony Johnson (19:41):
I love to hear that.
That's awesome.
Yeah, so that is great.
You sound like you have a greatteam and it sounds like you
guys all align, bringing a greatvalue and complimenting one
another.
So let's talk a little bitabout your business operations
with the construction company,right?
So do you when you guys aredoing work, so you're doing 30%
(20:05):
of your 70% you're doing forclients.
So when you're doing that, doyou guys predominantly do design
, build, design, assist.
What are you guys mostsuccessful at as a contractor?
Adam Ferrara (20:22):
So you know, we certainly love the jobs that are
negotiated, okay, client says,hey, we're using you, um,
there's nobody else and we'regoing to manage the design
process.
We want to bring you in atsmall, you know, at, at value
engineering moments, um to totry to, you know, for the lay
person, opportunities to uh,have the same activity take
(20:45):
place.
It's the same result but maybeit saves money, right?
So that's that approach.
But where I learned about and Ican't take credit for it, but
where I learned the term designassist build was an architect
buddy of mine here in Charlestonwho we've done a lot of
projects with, and it stuck inmy mind for probably a year
(21:08):
before I was comfortable enoughto kind of put it onto our
website and point it in.
The design assist build isunique in that the client signs
a letter of intent with us.
They pay us a very, very smallfee to help corral the civil
engineer, the landscapearchitect, the MEP, structural
and architect all of thosedesign professionals are paid
(21:30):
directly by the client, right?
And so, for a matter of safety,liability is big in our
industry, right?
So the client and the architectown those drawings.
We don't own those drawings,right?
We're going to build what's onthe drawings.
But we have a part in saying,hey, you know, put this in that
recipe, put that in that recipe.
But the design assist portionis that we're part of the
(21:54):
communication with the architect, just like design build.
However, every lender wants anowner to at least get two prices
for a project and everynegotiated GC says, oh my gosh,
you're going to go put that onthe street to get a price
because you need a second price.
It's going to confuse oursubcontractors.
They're going to now wonder ifwe have the project.
(22:15):
So every story I told themabout having that project is now
maybe seems not so true.
So now I have egg on my face.
In this case, our client knowsthey can go get a price at any
moment because if they fall outof love with me during the
design build process and I'veseen that happen on more than a
dozen occasions they're stuckwith me because I own the
(22:37):
drawings and that's not fair tothem because it's their business
, it's their money, it's theirland.
Why would I make them beholdento me?
So I feel like if I give themthat freedom, right, it's, it's
that you know, you love it, letit go, and if it comes back,
it's yours.
If it doesn't, it never was.
So that's my approach to it andI really feel like that's the
(22:59):
best way to do it.
There's some risk, but I alsothink the reward is so much
better because you know they'resaying yes to you.
Tony Johnson (23:08):
They're not just feeling obligated.
Right and now, do you run inevery time when you're doing a
design, assist where you, wherethe owner is getting a second
price so I've had three ownersget a second price.
Adam Ferrara (23:28):
Inevitably, if they do, I don't ask them who
gave them the price.
I do ask them to send me aschedule of values that maybe
has some blinds on it, so thatwe can do a leveling of the bid.
I'll give you a great exampleAn ice cream shop we're building
(23:49):
right now.
They got a bid.
The bid was about 30 grand lessthan ours and I said I'm
scratching my head and I'mthinking there's no way that
this is possible.
I literally live next door tothe site and there's no way this
guy's that much less expensivethan us because we're cutting it
pretty thin, because we'reright next door and we're.
And lo and behold, there wereabout 10 items that added up to
(24:14):
about 60 000 that were just notthought about on either his part
or maybe they were shown.
As you know, um alternates orowner supplied, yeah, and you
know, and?
But but joe consumer doesn'tknow how to level set a bid and
we do so.
(24:34):
Um, it's cool because it keepsour pencil sharp and honest, but
it also gives them the comfortthat they've really paid us to
do something of value to them.
Tony Johnson (24:44):
We've got to bring value to the project yeah, I
mean, I think, I think that thatthat is fantastic.
Yeah, and in more times thannot, you know when you're going
and assisting on a design likethat, you're you're making sure
everything is covered.
So the the risk that you runinto, just like what you're
(25:05):
speaking of, is when they bringin that second party.
That second party is leavingthings off and so you know
that's where it comes in.
You know, you know aconstruction management company
potentially right, you don'tlike those, but it's the reality
is you have to have.
(25:27):
It's the risk that an owner runsinto to speak to you that they
don't have the knowledge andexpertise to understand is that
when you're going through thatiteration, that process, and
you're doing a design assist,you're making sure everything is
covered.
Then you bring in someone froma competitive bid standpoint and
(25:48):
they just want to do the bareminimum on the drawings and
might have a backside changeorder plan.
So they're doing a low numberand so, you know, doing a
disservice to your client.
So it's sometimes difficult tobe able to show them the bid
leveling.
It's sometimes where the ownersand where I run into this and
(26:12):
I'd love to get your insightwhere the owner doesn't allow or
doesn't state that they sayeverything just looks right and
you really have to have a strongrelationship built for that
owner to you know.
Allow you to do that.
You know how have you, how haveyou handled that to make sure
you overcome that hurdle?
Adam Ferrara (26:33):
So because we've, we've you know, professionally
speaking we've we've been in bedwith this owner for a year now,
right Through all theentitlements, through the
permitting, and I haven't goneinto that portion of it when we
help them find land, andsometimes we help with finance
acquisition that's the advantageof being a developer we can
(26:55):
really give them the comfort.
Not only do we know we can doit for you, but we can show you.
We've done it for us on dozensof occasions.
So it's that's almost like a oh, it's not really a big deal and
it's not so overwhelming.
And when you can bring themthrough your project in real
life, that's part one.
But part two is when theyalmost look at you like you're
crazy when you say, hey, wewould encourage you to get
(27:16):
another bid.
I want them to get another bidevery time because I want my
estimating department and mypre-construction team to see
like, oh, I could get this donefor that price, if that in fact
is an accurate price.
But so, but the other the otherportion is too we have a really
(27:36):
unique checklist for ourdevelopment, of our projects.
That is is something only adeveloper that's very seasoned
would know how to put together.
We open up the coffers on allof our goodies that we use to do
(27:57):
development.
With all of our clients thatwant to do development
especially the first timeclients that are doctors that
love to occupy 51 percent oftheir building because they want
to rent out the balance of itand the bank loves it because
they're a doctor and they'reunder occupied we can really
help them navigate that process.
And I've had clients where I'vesaid, hey, let me see your
business plan, can you getfinancing for this?
(28:20):
And I ask that, with all duerespect, let us help you with
that.
So we do a lot of businesscoaching without really
advertising that.
We do business coaching and youknow, I know we're doing it
well, or well enough, becauseour trade partners are coming to
me asking for help to developtheir own spaces, which is
(28:44):
really really flattering basis,which is really really
flattering.
And the last part is you knowthe simple questions like hey,
did that contractor look at thelandlord work letter?
If it's a first generationspace, oh, I didn't send that to
them.
Well, how do they know what thelandlord's promising you versus
what you need to put in, versuswhat the other GC needs to put
(29:05):
on this quote what you need toput in versus what the other GC
needs to put on his quote.
And that very thing happened toone of our other clients
building a pizza shop inSomerville, south Carolina.
The landlord missed about$20,000 worth of work.
Another GC would have just putit in his price right, because
they walked a space that's notthere.
Well, I went to the owner andsaid, hey, this landlord owes
(29:26):
you this work.
It's not in your drawings.
We need to reconcile that.
And it was like a headscratching moment like, oh my
gosh, you just saved me $20,000.
So I just love those likelittle wins and that gets me
super excited.
Um, to do what we do that's,that's amazing, you know.
Tony Johnson (29:49):
It speaks um kind of volumes to who you are as a
person.
So that you know to go back tospeaking of yourself earlier
godly men, uh, you and yourpartners, so that that is true
and it's, it's refreshing tohear something like that.
You know, being in thisindustry, coming upon 20 years,
you know I don't run into a lotof people that are in this
industry that have and hold thathonesty side.
(30:10):
It's.
You're a lot of people that arein this industry that have and
hold that honesty side.
It's a lot of times fighting totry and be honest with clients,
because there's a lot ofdeception, unfortunately in our
industry and fighting that whenyou're trying to be that honest
contractor is a difficultbalance beam you have to walk in
order to be successful becauseyou, with every new client, have
(30:34):
to validate, you know andjustify that up forward and
being honest and, you know,building that trust when you
have a lot of times in acompetitive environment, a lot
of things that you have toovercome and explain to a client
.
So you really have to work hardto be able to do that.
Adam Ferrara (30:56):
Yeah, I think.
I think focusing on you knowwhen we're and I'll tell a
client hey, let's fast forward,and you're done.
You know you're feeling excited.
Your doors are open.
You're nervous.
You know you want you to besuccessful financially.
The last thing you need to bethinking about is oh my gosh,
I've got a daycare opening upAugust 15th.
(31:16):
We don't have our CEO yet.
Or I forgot to coordinate withDHEC.
You know we understand that wealso own several daycares as
developers too, so I guessthere's a lot of I don't want to
use the word cheat codes,because we've earned it.
Right, we took the knocks on thehead but the ability to get
(31:38):
them to focus on how they'regoing to feel once the doors are
open, letting us solve theproblem and delivering a great
product, and then all the behindthe scenes scuttle that takes
place between contractors andarchitects.
We really, really, really takethat same approach with our
owners to defend our designteams, because if you take an
(32:04):
let's just say it's a hard bidsituation, you're bidding
against 10 other GCs right, it'shighly competitive, such as
public work and you've got let'ssay it's, you know a school
district or something that'sbuilding a $30 million school.
You're going to have very, verylow bids and you're going to
have massive change orders.
(32:25):
Right, it's that old, you know,the picture of a dinghy is the
contract and the picture of theyacht is the change order.
Old, you know, the picture of adinghy is the contract and the
picture of the yacht the changeorder.
But we make sure, because 90%of our work is either design,
assist, build or negotiated, orit's for our own development
(32:45):
company we really make sure thatour civil engineers and our
architects really understand andappreciate that we are going to
and our architects reallyunderstand and appreciate that
we are going to.
We have a little bit ofconstruction contingency and
design contingency in ournumbers, right, a couple of
percent.
But then the balance of it ishow are we communicating the
issue and are we bringing threesolutions to that problem, not
(33:13):
just pointing a finger in a copy?
All email oh, your architect'swindow is five feet off on the
exterior versus the interior andit's, you know, in the way of a
door that has to do with yourlife safety of getting in and
out of this building.
Right, I mean something thatcould create a massive cost
change order.
We don't.
It's not that we're hiding itfrom the customer.
It's just that, hey, let'sassess what the risk is, how do
(33:35):
we solve that risk and what'sthe absolute best case scenario?
First, then we call thearchitect or the civil and we
then say, hey, this is what wesee, here's how we think we can
fix it.
What's your opinion about thebest way to approach this?
And that also speaks volumes,because that's how we're going
(33:56):
to get referrals from architects.
They're not going to refer jobsto contractors that run them
through the mud, unless they'rejust the cheapest contractor,
and they always get work becausethe developer wants what they
perceive as inexpensive.
But eventually you get what youpay for.
Tony Johnson (34:14):
Absolutely yeah.
So if somebody's trying to holdon to a building, which is
speak to you, if you're going tobe occupying 51% of a building
a lot of times, you would reallyneed to pause if you want to go
with that lowest bid, becauseyou're going to be dealing with
that building for years to come.
So the initial costs in thelong term is going to be a big
(34:35):
problem for you.
All right, so just real quick.
I know you've mentioned itagain, so could you, for the
listeners, just explain whenyou're saying you design assist
or negotiated?
Can you explain?
Now we've discussed your designassist.
Can you explain negotiated?
For the listener?
Adam Ferrara (34:54):
Absolutely so.
I'll give you a great example.
We are working with a corporatedaycare brand out of the
Midwest right now on a projectin the Carolinas.
And they are they've selected asite, they have a construction
manager in-house.
They've selected a site, theyhave a construction manager
(35:14):
in-house right, that's his jobto do all of those
pre-development exercises.
You've got to have your soilstudies, potentially a phase one
to environmental trafficstudies, whatever that
municipality or highestauthority of jurisdiction
requires.
Beyond that, they can ask ushey, we're not in market, can
you recommend a civil or anarchitect?
And we will, we'll recommendtwo of each and then or they may
(35:38):
not ask for that at all theymay say, hey, we've already got
our architect because it's abrand, right, and they're just
repeating that brand with ourcodes.
And we've got our civil.
We're going to have a designkickoff meeting.
And what that design kickoffmeeting includes?
Us in the design from A rightalpha to omega, a to Z, and we
(36:03):
are advertising opportunities tokeep dollars under control,
whether it's you know wall types, you know truss heights, wood,
truss, metal those are sometimescommonly referred to as a 2B
building or a 5B building, andthen we will give them guidance
(36:25):
on hey, I know this municipalitylikes X in their drawings or Y,
because we've experienced it.
So we're just providing, notlike a tour.
I would classify this.
We're a.
We're like a very experiencedtour guide on the design assist
bill.
We're more of a abbreviatedtour guide on the negotiated
(36:48):
Right.
We're giving them the highpoints but we're not.
We're.
We've been brought along tothat party.
We're not running as a host.
Tony Johnson (36:59):
Yes.
So now when we're talking so inother words, you know, just to
clarify it real so when he'sdoing the design assist, he is
bringing the recommendedarchitecture, pulling all those
relationships and still steeringand guiding the ship in the
design assist, in the negotiated, he is present and there, but
(37:23):
not really the captain of theship.
He's a side piece on the ship.
He's there because they wanthis input along the way, kind of
as a consultant type of feel.
That would be kind of how Iwould try and describe it.
Now, when we talk before right,when we're doing the design
assist and you guys are doingthose right, you're getting an
(37:46):
LOI, you're doing that.
So how are you protectingyourself for negotiated work?
Adam Ferrara (37:55):
Sure.
So when you say protectingourselves with the design assist
build, you know in theory it'swe're trusting that the owner is
going to hire us becausethey've seen the goodwill,
they've seen the time.
There is a tiny kicker wherethe client, if we do charge them
a small fee for that designassist bill process, we actually
(38:18):
do honor it and give them aprice reduction.
So let's say they give us adeposit of $15,000 to manage the
entire design process and getpermitting which could take
anywhere from 12 to 18 monthshere in the low country process,
and get permitting which couldtake anywhere from 12 to 18
months here in the low country,a while, or add another six
months for SBA financing.
Then yeah, so I would say froma contractual standpoint there
(38:45):
is no guarantee, but what ourcontract does promise is they
give us last look.
Tony Johnson (38:55):
Yeah, Right.
So you know, and the reasonthat I wanted to bring that up
is because you know and we wereabout the same thing, right, and
the reality is you know you'redoing this as a service to help
the client.
This is not.
You are not making money.
If you broke this down to hoursspent into these projects,
(39:17):
you're making pennies on yourtime.
You're doing all of this workand putting in all the effort to
help that client under theassumption that you're getting
the job, because you're reallynot trying.
You're just trying to putsomething.
So you're trying to state, hey,um, you know with, because in
(39:40):
time in time, a lot of peoplethat are newer to contracting
would do all that for free andthen get bypassed and lose it.
So you're just trying to give alittle bit of a nudge to say
you know, uh, you know, just,you know, at least pay me for
what I'm doing.
But you know that is not reallywhat that's there for.
It's just kind of like cause,realistically, you're almost
(40:02):
this whole year, year and a halfthat you're putting in is
almost for free.
It's just kind of something totie yourself to it really.
Adam Ferrara (40:18):
It's a lost leader , for sure.
But let me tell you what itdoes.
Tell me, if a client is notwilling to pay me $10,000 or
$15,000 to basically quarterbackthe entire process for them so
that they can manage and runtheir business, they're telling
me that they don't believe intheir business enough to invest
in it, because they're going tobe shocked when they see the
prices from commercialarchitects to design unique
(40:40):
one-off projects.
Those range in between $30,000to $200,000.
And the civil engineering isalso very similar in between
$20,000 to $100,000, dependingon the site size and complexity
and the municipality.
If they don't want to invest inthemselves and I'm relatively
blunt with them in a very, veryprofessional way I say, hey, you
(41:02):
know, because some people havesaid why am I paying you that?
Well, I'm giving it back to youwhen we go to start your
project and I promise you thatWell, I'm giving it back to you
when we go to start your projectand I promise you I am.
It is a line item in there andwe don't inflate the numbers to
just offset it.
It's honest truth, it's justthe integrity that we work with
and I'll say, hey, it'simportant for these designers
(41:27):
and your lender and yourinvestors, potentially, or your
partners and your employees, tosee that you're willing to
invest in your business and ifnow is not the right time, we
want to be here for you when itis.
But I've had clients thatdidn't want to do it and their
projects still haven't happenedyet.
Tony Johnson (41:44):
Well, yeah, that's typically it.
So it's a call sign for me thatif they're not going to do it
then it's not probably a realproject you, it's probably not
(42:13):
the best client for you, becauseif they don't see value in you
just from this standpoint, thenhow much value are they really
putting on you during theproject?
That might be the type ofclient that's going to try and
override you, try and go on andthat you're going to have issues
with later within theconstruction process.
So it could be a leadingindicator that this isn't the
right relationship and beware.
So just something to put outthere.
(42:34):
One last thing before we finishup Adam and I've really enjoyed
our conversation Could you tellme, you know, with the
evolution of technology rightnow in the industry it's there's
a lot happening.
So I know, just with my company, ai, we're trying to just keep
(42:55):
up with it.
Right, there are so many thingshappening.
How are you guys handling allthe technology changes with AI
and worrying about robotics andlabor capacity?
How are you guys trying tothink of that moving forward?
Adam Ferrara (43:13):
So because we're not really in a production area
environment such as a merchantbuilder is building the same
model in a neighborhood you knowa hundred times over, but we
are building unique, one-offbuildings.
I would say on the labor side,with respect to the real
construction, we haven't reallyimplemented anything new.
In that respect I would saywe're implementing more
(43:36):
oversight with our cameraingsystems and how those are
integrated within our software,like Red Team is one of the
softwares we use.
We did move from Procore.
It just was not the best fitfor us.
Red Team was designed by a GCso we used them and we are using
on the what I would say thatearly on stages right, the
(44:00):
diligence period, the sitestudying oh my gosh, I cannot
tell you how many times I'musing my phone to pull up you
know land glide to pull up landinformation.
Know land glide to pull up landinformation, using, you know
Mosher to measure.
You know site topo.
Even though we don't have muchdown here topography, we have a
lot up in Charlotte.
(44:21):
We're using AI you know, testfit to help forecast what a site
could look like, because maybethe civil engineer doesn't have
time to draw us a concept planfor a site, whereas I remember
when I first started on theresidential side, I was hand
drawing some of these smalladditions that we were doing,
(44:41):
because it was within thefootprint of the home, maybe we
were adding a second story to agarage or something.
So, between our projectmanagement software, the way
that we're communicatinginterpersonally within our teams
, our short and long-term videocameraing systems Blue Ox is
(45:02):
another great one that does somelike you can see your project
compressed into like 30 secondsfrom start to finish, which is
really cool.
Um, and certainly we're going,we're staying with the uh, the
um, the uh back to our normalstable efforts with like
obviously we we use dronetechnology to to to see what's
going on with our sites, uh, inprogress on a monthly basis.
(45:25):
We work with a company thatdoes that for us.
So so I would say that you knowwe're investing a solid percent
and a half to 2% of our totalvolume in that type of
technology as a matter of ourgross sales, and hopefully that
(45:47):
answered your question.
Tony Johnson (45:48):
That was a fantastic answer.
So there was a lot of greattidbits in there on some of the
new products that you mentioned.
And to go back to what also youmentioned, I was just on a call
earlier today regarding Procore.
So that's a challengingsoftware because it's an
industry standard, I would saysoftware for project management.
(46:11):
It's got a lot of complaintsfrom a GC side.
So when you say, yeah, Red Teamwas created by a GC, Procore is
one of those companies thatdoes not look out for the client
.
It's more of a gotcha bait andswitch company.
Adam Ferrara (46:39):
It's a pay for play platform and as it has
gotten bigger, it's gotten moreexpensive.
You would think, as it's gottenbigger and more subscribers,
that they could maybe have allbetter offerings to the you know
, your I don't know what theterm is your original users.
But yeah, it can't be.
The barrier to entry cannot beso painful financially and the
(47:01):
simple fact that the deal killerfor me with Procore and we told
them this about 38 times in athree-year period was we could
not run our scheduling throughProcore.
You have to schedule outside ofProcore and then dump into
Procore.
Well, quite frankly, we couldjust have our own Google Docs
(47:22):
and do the same thing, and it'snot.
You know, it was awesome forpictures, it was awesome for
RFIs and and whatnot andsubmittals, but it's just not
that good for the laysuperintendent yeah, absolutely
yeah.
Tony Johnson (47:37):
And so what he's saying is one of the big
disadvantages of Procore is theyhave a basically a third party
or it's kind of a Procore drivethat you take your Microsoft
project scheduling software andyou can't update.
You have to go through a driveand go in and update.
You can't just go within thisvery expensive software and
(48:01):
adjust your schedule.
You have to go into thesecondary program outside, go
through basically a port andalmost integrate it in.
It's the craziest thing I'veever seen in my life for a
software that costs such an armand a leg, like three times what
every other one costs it's.
Adam Ferrara (48:18):
Yeah, you know you've got your other ones that
are great for residential use,but you know we found that the
the switch to red team you knowswitching is always painful,
right and.
but I will tell you that youknow, when you go back um, to
remembering what it used to belike, versus how you then
(48:38):
operate, then you're like, oh mygosh, this is so much better,
um it.
You don't want to keep goingback to the same old thing, the
um, uh.
It's probably not PC to saythat kind of the beaten wife
syndrome.
You just keep coming back to itand you just feel terror.
You just feel like, oh, I'mjust used to it, so I'll just
(48:59):
keep coming back to it.
It should not do that in anybusiness.
If you feel in your gut thatsomething's not running the way,
it should research, chat, gpt,it, whatever you figure it out,
um and and, uh, and, yeah, youknow, don't, don't ever just
stay status quo, um, becauseevery business really should be
organic.
Uh, in most cases, even the,even the large franchises,
(49:22):
should still be able to thinkautonomously, to function in
some capacity.
Tony Johnson (49:27):
Absolutely yeah, and so, uh, you know, just to
reiterate what he was saying,red team is who they're using,
which is a very good alternativeplatform.
Autodesk is another one that ismore expansive than Red Team
and offers more alignment withProcore.
I mean, they are a biggercompany and they actually offer
(49:49):
even more things than Procore.
So other alternatives to lookat in the market.
So, yeah, to that point I'llleave it alone, but you know, I
would wish that that softwarewould kind of more engage,
because you don't hear a lot ofpositive information in the
marketplace.
Adam Ferrara (50:09):
Tony, I can promise you David Buse, my
partner, who will listen to thispodcast at some point, is going
to be so excited that you and Iare fighting for the little guy
.
He is a yeah, it was just notgood.
So it's, but we're really happywith the change and but I don't
know how much more time we haveleft.
(50:29):
I just want to be verycognizant and give a shout out
to the total team.
Right?
So my wife is our HR manager.
She has a master's inaccounting from Clemson and she
manages all of our HR personnel,onboarding and whatnot, so
she's part of this as a family.
David's wife manages our socialmedia and controls the outward
(50:54):
presence of what we'representing to the public and our
team as a whole.
We have a staff of 28 stronginternally within our both
offices and we could not do whatwe do without our team, and
that you know.
A lot of business owners willsay that and I believe they mean
it, but I can assure you mylimit of reading capacity is 40
(51:20):
pages, which is the length ofour contracts, and because you
know, every entrepreneurialowner like me that's the ideas
guy is ADD and I'm sure you'vepicked up on it.
But I have to have very, verydetailed people and God has
blessed me with a beautiful wife, three great kids, and we have
(51:42):
money people.
We have non-risk takers, wehave more non-risk takers, and
then we have finance guys and wejust have this awesome team of
construction professionals, fromPMs to superintendents we call
them construction managersbecause we want them to really
own their projects and ouroffice staff, Julie and Alana.
(52:06):
So we just are very blessed tohave the team we have and could
not do it without them, and I'mgrateful that they allow me to
have the flexibility to take aWednesday.
I take every Wednesday as awhat's your teacher coach?
Call it A free day.
Tony Johnson (52:22):
Free day.
My free day is not Focus, focussuffering free day.
Adam Ferrara (52:27):
That's my free day to go out and explore new
projects to help grow thesebusinesses and see what else is
out there.
Man.
Tony Johnson (52:34):
Hey, well, yeah, I love that that's and explore
new projects to help grow thesebusinesses and see what else is
out there.
Man, hey, well, yeah, I lovethat.
That's fantastic and Iappreciate you taking the time
to talk about your team.
Now, if someone wants to findyou guys on social media, what
social media platform are youthe most active on and what
would be the handle we'relooking for?
Adam Ferrara (52:52):
active on and what would be the handle we're
looking for?
Yeah, so so our uh Facebook umfor our abuse contractors.
Let's see, uh, I have peoplethat know all these things Um
we'll, we'll find you on there.
Tony Johnson (53:07):
Yeah, for our contractors on uh.
Adam Ferrara (53:08):
Facebook.
Facebook is is where you guysare the most active, but we're
active on Facebook, uh uh, twotimes a week, but we're active
on Facebook two times a weekminimum.
And LinkedIn.
We're very active on LinkedIn,whether it's through our
successes in our projects,philanthropic efforts with with
our various municipalities andcounties.
So both are for air abusecontractors on that.
Tony Johnson (53:35):
I love it.
A lot of similarities in theways we do business, so it's
been an absolute pleasure havingyou on today, adam.
Thanks so much.
Hopefully maybe we can get youon another time later down the
road.
It's been fantastic and Iappreciate your time and we'll
put all the links to your socialmedia in the chat and we'll put
all the links to your socialmedia in the chat, and thanks
(53:56):
again for joining us.
Adam Ferrara (53:57):
Sir, I do want to give a quick shout out to
Charlotte Berger and her team atCBPR, who helped arrange this.
So thank you to them and thankyou to you and your platform.
I've enjoyed listening to yourpodcast on some of the cost seg
stuff and some of the other GCrelated things, and I've
(54:18):
actually forwarded your podcastto all of my team through our
company to listen to to, to growtheir their knowledge base.
So thank you so much for allyou do.
Tony Johnson (54:28):
Awesome.
Thanks again.
Appreciate it, adam.
All right, have a great day youtoo, sir.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.