August 10, 2025 • 33 mins
Have you ever had a service experience so good you were actually happy to pay the invoice? That's exactly what happened when I worked with Knapsack Creative for my website redesign—and I was so impressed, I had to get the inside scoop on how they engineered such a seamless client experience.
In this revealing conversation with Savannah from Knapsack Creative, we pull back the curtain on the systems and processes that allow their team to build complete Squarespace websites in as little as one day while keeping clients delighted throughout the journey. What emerges is a masterclass in client experience design that any service business can learn from.
Savannah walks us through their entire workflow—from the initial fit call to their unique project mapping system that gives clients total clarity on what to expect. We explore how they use Content Snare to make content collection painless, their strict time-blocking approach that makes projects predictable (Tuesdays and Thursdays are exclusively for client work!), and the meticulous documentation that ensures nothing falls through the cracks.
The most valuable insights come from understanding how they create what Savannah calls "micro yeses" throughout their process—small alignment points that prevent the dreaded "this isn't what I wanted" moment at project completion. Their collaborative approach keeps clients engaged while maintaining incredible efficiency.
Whether you're a solopreneur, agency owner, or in-house marketing leader, you'll find actionable strategies to transform your own client or stakeholder processes. Get ready to steal some seriously good ideas—I know I did! By the end of this episode, you'll understand why thoughtfully designed systems aren't just good for business—they're the secret to creating experiences clients can't stop talking about.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're like all right, let's show up, get this done,
and then by the end of the day,yeah, you have a completed
website, We'll launch it, youknow, when they're ready.
And so, yeah, it's verytime-blocked, it's very
efficient and it's verycollaborative.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello, hello, this is Sarah Noel Block, and you're
listening to Tiny Marketing.
Have you ever had an experiencethat just gave you the warm and
fuzzies?
You worked with a contractor oran employee and it just was so
easy that you couldn't stopthinking about it.
(00:37):
You actually, at the end of theday, were like I am so glad
that I have $5,000 less moneybecause I got to experience that
with that person.
That's how I felt after usingKnapsack Creative for my recent
website redesign.
I enjoyed the experience somuch that I had to dig in more.
(01:04):
I reached out to the team atKnapsack, and specifically
Savannah, who is my designer,and I begged her please tell me
how you create that amazingclient experience.
And she sat down with me togive me the lowdown the ins and
outs, from beginning to end, onhow they craft such a beautiful
(01:26):
client experience, and we'resharing that conversation today.
So get out your notebook.
Enjoy the fact that you areabout to get a masterclass on
how to create a seamlessexperience for your clients or
even your company.
This can be applied to any sortof project that you're doing,
(01:53):
so whether you're in-house oryou are a marketer or a solo
entrepreneur and you're doingclient stuff.
You can apply this process thatshe's teaching me today into
your projects, and I'm tellingyou now I'm going to steal a
(02:16):
bunch of this.
So when you're working with meand you're like, this sounds
familiar, this is the reason.
It's because I'm stealingSavannah's SOPs right now.
All right, stay tuned.
We're talking to Savannah fromNetSap Creative in just a moment
.
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(02:39):
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(03:01):
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(03:44):
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I used Knapsack for my websiteredesign.
If you want to check it out,that work is theirs.
Savannah was my designer andthe reason I reached out to ask
(04:08):
her to be on the show is becauseI freaking loved the experience
that I had.
It was so seamless and easy andit put me in a position where I
couldn't fail, because I'mpulled in a thousand different
directions being a solopreneur,and she made it so easy for me
to do my homework on time andmake sure that the project ran
(04:30):
on time and I wasn't ruining heropportunity to do a good job.
That's awesome yeah it was superfun to work together.
We are digging into theexperience today because I was
obsessed with it.
I was just like trying toreverse engineer how you guys do
what you do.
Can you tell me how you guyscame up with, or first describe,
(04:56):
the experience that clients gothrough and then we can dig into
the back, the back end of it?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, yeah, totally Well.
Yeah, like I said, we were aSquarespace web design agency,
so we build Squarespace websitesfor our clients and we do it in
as little as a day, so it'skind of the big process piece.
So we're just very big onprocess and systems, like I said
, and we're trying to create theworld's best web design
(05:24):
experience is kind of our thingthat we're just constantly
pursuing.
So, in terms of the experienceand what a client goes through
and feel free to chime in, sinceyou went through- it, I will.
First we'll meet with somebodyto just make sure they're a good
fit.
We're really big on making surethat you know somebody is going
(05:45):
to align with our process.
It's not for everybody, becauseit is pretty fast-paced and you
do have to be, you know, aquick decision maker and all of
that.
We also want to make sureSquarespace is a good fit.
But essentially, once they'veonboarded into our process, we
give them a project map whichbasically lays out all the steps
in the process.
(06:05):
So it's really clear they knowexactly what to expect and
what's happening when withcalendar, invites and things on
the calendar and really the bulkof the process for the client.
Once they've done their homework, we have a pretty organized
intake prep guide.
But then essentially we'll havea one hour meeting to review
the prep guide.
(06:26):
So that's kind of like, hey,this is when your homework's due
, like you're going to meet withyour designer over the chat,
and so it just creates likeclarity around a due date and I
think for everybody just allhumans we need that.
Yeah, so that that reviewsession is when we review the
(06:46):
prep guide.
So basically, just look at alltheir homework, get on the same
page, make sure we haveeverything we need to complete
the process and then about aweek later we do what we call
the design day.
Sometimes there's a coupledesign days if it's a bigger
site, but I think for your sitewe just did one design day.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, we did the whole thing in one day.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Boom One day.
So, yeah, that's our prettylike that's our most common
package, and so what that lookslike is we actually are building
the site throughout the day.
We do do some prep work aheadof time, so it's not entirely
that day, but we're basicallymeeting over video chat, screen
sharing, asking for feedback,and then we're jumping off for a
(07:27):
couple hours building the nextpage, getting feedback, and so
it's very collaborative and fastpaced.
And so I mentioned it's not foreverybody, because if people
need like a lot of time to thinkover their decisions or the
shade of blue that we're usingor the icons, it's probably not
a good fit, because we're allabout efficiency.
(07:49):
We're like, all right, let'sshow up, get this done, and then
by the end of the day, yeah,you have a completed website,
we'll launch it.
You know when they're ready.
And so, yeah, it's very timeblocked, it's very efficient and
it's very collaborative.
We it's very time-blocked, it'svery efficient and it's very
collaborative.
We hate the idea of likeemailing back and forwards for
(08:10):
weeks and weeks and like gettingfeedback that way.
Or else we're like let's get onvideo chat, let's talk, let's
get this done in terms of, youknow, making decisions and all
that.
So that's high level.
Yeah, anything that you wouldadd, just having gone through it
, or anything I missed, yes, ohwell, I noticed.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So we had our fit call to see if I made sense to
work with your agency and howyou guys work.
And then at the kickoff call,that's when you went over like
what homework I would need andwe kind of picked out what
package I would need if we couldactually get it done in a day.
(08:48):
Right, and what is the toolthat you used for collecting the
content that you needed?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, we have Content Snare and we've kind of built
out like a custom thing inContent Snare, which is an
amazing tool, for I mean, itworks for lots of different
industries.
So yeah, contentsnarecom.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
That's right.
I told so many people about itafter we worked together.
I was like Content Snare.
It's amazing.
Yeah, pretty powerful, yeah.
The other thing that I noticedis like the vast majority of the
website was done before ourdesign day and what we did in
(09:31):
like the first call of the daywas just go through the details,
like where I wanted specificchanges, but the vast majority
was done Like specific changes,but the vast majority was done
Like I don't know, the house wasbuilt it was just like picking
paint colors and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, you gave us a lot to work with.
I would say that is contingenton how much like branding
elements we have to work with.
Sometimes if somebody doesn'thave anything, then we're like
making more of those decisionsin the day.
No-transcript, because weactually the calendar invite is
(10:49):
like a full time block Becausewe do want people to be
available in case I need to meetmore times.
But usually that happens wherepeople are like yeah, I blocked
off the whole day.
I thought maybe I would have tobe on video chat longer, but
like I got a ton of other stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yeah Well, and it's nice because you're not
scheduling other meetings, soyou can actually get work done
in between working on yourwebsite.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Our secret way of reviewing you.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, yeah, that was helpful.
I'm sorry I'm busy that day,cannot meet.
I want to go backwards in time,though, so let's talk from that
.
So we had the fit call.
You were like, okay, I thinkshe can be fast-paced and work
with us, and then you guys gaveme content snare, where I
(11:36):
provided copywriting and theexamples of the websites I liked
and things like that.
But the thing that was reallycool is that you had mapped out
the project, so I knew exactlywhat to look, what it would look
like, so explain that to me.
They're not all custom, I'msure, so you probably have
pre-designed workflows thatyou're working with.
(11:58):
How did that work?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, so it makes it nice because we're web designers
, so that's actually aSquarespace website that we
built.
So we have all the tools andwhatnot to essentially create
that page.
But yeah, it's basically a pagewhere it has like the five
steps in the process and theneach section just describes the
different steps.
It's actually really nicebecause our process doesn't
(12:23):
change and so we really are ableto use one template to just
duplicate for all of ourdifferent projects.
The only thing that changes isthe number of design days, and
so for the design day spot inthe process, you know, maybe
someone would have threedifferent design days and we
just write those out in thecalendar.
So, yeah, that's basicallysomething we built in
(12:45):
Squarespace.
We made it branded to our ownbrand and colors and whatnot.
And basically our projectmanager every time we have a
project onboarded which ispretty frequently because our
turnaround time is pretty quickneeded it to be like really easy
.
She just duplicates a page inSquarespace, plugs in dates and
(13:06):
name and customizes it a littlebit Pretty minimal.
So I would say like I don'tknow she would know better, but
maybe like 10 minutes of workeach time where she's just
having to update links and textand whatnot?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
That's cool.
I'm going to totally steal thatidea, yeah you have a
Squarespace site.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
I do, I do.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I kind of take that when I'm podcast guesting and
I'll have a landing page that Ijust duplicate and change out
the certain information I needfor that specific podcast so I
can track conversion rates fromthose experiences.
But I'm guessing it's similar.
Does it live on your website ordo you have a separate domain?
(13:47):
I can't remember what thedomain was for that anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
It's mapnapsacreativecom, so it's a
separate Squarespace site.
The reason we did that ifyou're only going to have like a
dozen of them or so a year thatneed to be active a dozen of
them or so a year that need tobe active it could leave live on
your existing site.
However, we have like hundredsover the last few years, yeah,
(14:11):
and we like to put them just incase, like a client wants to
reference their training videolink from the past project or
whatever, and so, because wehave so many, we just decided to
create a separate site.
So, yeah, it is a separate.
Keep it clean With clean.
Yeah, we already have way toomany pages in our existing site,
(14:32):
so yeah, that would be insane.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Hundreds of pages on your website, bah yeah.
Do you keep them private then?
So they're not searchable.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
So they're not searchable, yeah they're not
searchable, like even thesubdomain.
If you go there like there'snot even yeah, it's none of it
can be found or anything likethat?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, that makes sense.
It's private, personalized forthe company that you're working
with.
Now you mentioned time blocking, so how does that work when you
are front loading and doingparts of the website ahead of
time?
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah.
So I mean I can first justshare, like how we time block
the projects because that mightbe useful, and then kind of get
into like how we actually breakup the pieces of work without
being helpful.
Yeah, that's perfect, yeah,cool.
So I mean we've basicallyfigured out a way to scope out
(15:35):
the work so we can kind ofpredict okay, this package needs
this amount of time and we havea scoping tool and a very
predictable set of processes,you know.
So we have a checklist that wego through every single time and
that process doesn't change.
Of course there's variables andchallenges and things that you
need to time manage, but thenice thing.
(15:57):
So our calendar is pretty rigid,where Tuesdays and Thursdays
are our project days and so, nomatter what those are, when
design days get booked, I don'tthink we've ever had in like 11,
12 years a Monday or Wednesdayproject, which is just so funny.
And then Monday and Wednesdaysare our meeting days and then
Fridays are strictly internaldays, so we actually don't do
(16:20):
any client work.
So you can look at the month ofMarch and say, okay, all these
Tuesdays and Thursdays areavailable slots for these
different designers, we knowwhen people are off and all of
that and then essentially it'sreally easy to schedule and book
and whatnot, because our daypack package is one design day.
(16:40):
So our project manager knows,okay, you know March 5th is
going to be for this person andso, anyways, there's just a lot
of predictability when you getinto time blocking, because it
is pretty rigid and systematic,if you will.
But then in terms of how webreak it up, it really is our
process and our checklist.
(17:00):
I mean, it would beoverwhelming to show if you won
the checklist, because there'sjust a lot of different steps
but it's all broken up in theprocesses.
So the designer knows, okay,what do I need to do before my
review session?
And so there's some prep workfor the site and even that is
time blocked.
So you have two hours beforeyour review session.
So there's literally athree-hour block.
(17:22):
So the designer preps for twohours and then they meet with
the client for one hour and thenthe prep time is time blocked.
So that's about four hours.
Sometimes we only need one ortwo hours, but there's at least
four hours on the day before thedesign day, which is a Monday
or Wednesday, and then there's,you know, the seven, eight hour
(17:44):
block during the design day.
So literally everything has atimestamp and again, I think
because of our scoping tool,there are times where we under
quote and I always feel reallybad about it, or like which
package they?
would choose Just like oh, thisone probably could have used
more time, so yeah, on whichpackage.
(18:05):
They would choose Just like ooh, this one probably could have
used more time, so yeah, onwhich package?
But the designer has likebuffer time, so that's the other
.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah, so you feel bad because you are the person who
is deciding the time frame.
I get it now.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Sorry that was my bad , but I think a big part of time
blocking is creating buffer,because you need margin for
error.
So we say Fridays are only forinternal time.
However, they're also a reallynice buffer day if, for some
reason, like a designer needs acouple extra hours.
So that's kind of how it allhappens on the calendar.
(18:46):
Really, everything is justpre-scheduled and you know, our
designers are very trained inour process and so super
predictable for them, like theycan look weeks ahead in advance
and know all right, these twohours I'm prepping for my review
session.
This day I'm doing a design day.
This day I'm prepping, sothere's basically just time
(19:07):
blocks throughout the processand so we're able to get that
work done.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
You know, the day before the design day and kind
of come, like you said, withsome more stuff to show, and so
it makes the design day lessstressful design day less
stressful, yeah, yeah, so okay,I'm going to reiterate for
listeners yes, so four hoursbefore the design day they have
(19:36):
time to like, prepare the, theskeleton site.
We'll say and, or a first draftsite, and then they have the
review day and they do.
They have a two hour time blockbefore the call starts and
that's for just going throughtheir checklist.
They have the items that theyneed to go through and then they
have the review call and thenthey have eight to nine hours
(20:00):
during the day to do any of therevisions or design work that
they have to do based off of thereview call, and then you have
a wrap-up call right At the endof the day.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
There is not a wrap-up call, or yes, during the
design day?
Yeah, that would be within likethe eight or so hour day.
Yeah, there would be a wrap-upcall yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So the wrap-up call I'm remembering back to my
experience happened towards itwas like in the afternoon, after
we had squared everything awayand you're like any changes, I'm
like no, and then we would hitpublish.
So that's how that would happen.
So if that wrap-up call in theafternoon, they're like I have
(20:42):
major changes actually, whatwould you do then?
Speaker 1 (20:46):
That's a great question.
I get asked that prettyfrequently.
We ideally have some differentlike you know what do you call
them?
Fail stops before that, like,in other words, conversations
that we're already having wherewe feel like we're really on the
same page and we're constantlychecking in.
We're really having where wefeel like we're really on the
same page and we're constantlychecking in.
(21:07):
We're really big on clearcommunication like hey, how are
you feeling about things?
Is this heading in the rightdirection?
I mean, I can't think of a timeprobably been like one time
that I can think of where thisdidn't happen.
But it's very rare that we'renot on the same page and heading
in the right direction in termsof the overall style and
(21:29):
because we're having thoselittle meetings throughout and
showing progress, we're notgoing to get so far ahead with a
design or a style that theclient's like whoa, this was not
what I was expecting at all.
If, for some reason, a clientis like I'm just having second
thoughts, like I, instead ofthis illustrated style, I
(21:50):
actually want to use all photos,they usually know that that's
kind of like on them and that itwas like something that.
Okay, you know, we are going toneed to book more time.
So really like, the shortanswer is that we would just
book more time, but I'm.
The caveat is that it's prettyrare that we get to the end of
(22:11):
the day and they're like thisisn't what I wanted, because
we've been collaborating forhours and hours.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
So yeah, yeah, I always call those micro yeses in
projects, making sure you'regetting a micro yes at little
intervals within the project soyou know you're in the right
direction.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, that's exactly it.
Micro yeses, I love that.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I'll steal that Good because I'm stealing this
process.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I love that we talked about how the process has
translated to a lot of the workthat you do.
It's just really cool when Ihear that, because we have a
copywriter friend that has kindof extrapolated a lot of our
process into you know, she doeslike copywriting in a day, and
so I think it's just really coolbecause it's not only like a
win for clients but it's also awin Like I think you've
(22:59):
experienced positive, yeah, howyou work and what you're on and
time blocking and even likepredictable revenue is kind of
nice Like, okay, I know, onthese days I'm, you know,
knocking out these projects, soit's just cool, but there's been
some stealing.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, I, anytime I it's rare.
I really really love anexperience that I've had.
I really really love anexperience that I've had and
anytime it happens.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I'm like, what pieces of that can I pull into my
process?
It's smart.
Yeah, we do the same thing.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Okay, so what was I going to ask you specifically I
wanted to ask you this isn't thequestion that I had in mind
right now, but I'm going to gowith it anyway what tools do you
use throughout it, like projectmanagement?
I know you use Content Snarefor gathering the information
ahead of time.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Yeah, so Astana is a big project management tool.
So our project manager lives inAsana in terms of moving the
client through our process, solike send the invoice, like add
the calendar date, you know allthose different pieces that she
kind of has to do from a highlevel.
So Asana is a big one.
(24:20):
And then all of our filestorage is in Dropbox, and so
Dropbox paper, which is kind oflike the Google Doc version of,
has become where all of ourother like checklists and
whatnot, live or doc.
(24:41):
So picture, like you know, anonline blank document for every
single client.
So we have one called tinymarketing and each time we're
pasting in that same checklist.
So we have a discovery meetingchecklist, we have a content
review session checklist, wehave a design day checklist, we
have a site launch checklist,and it just goes on and on.
So we paste that in every time,or I think it's actually a
(25:04):
template that our projectmanager just creates each time.
And so basically, a designerknows, okay, they look at their
calendar, they have tinymarketing on their calendar and
they just go to that paper docand they can have it up and just
basically start knocking thingsout.
Start knocking things out.
So yeah, I would say Asana andDropbox Paper are the big ones.
(25:26):
We really like Dropbox Paperfor our design process because
it gives us a lot moreflexibility to take notes and
move things around and make itour own.
I don't know how familiar youare with Asana, but we tried to
move everything into Asana whenwe moved over to it, but it's
not as like fluid and flexible,like it's really great at having
(25:47):
organized check boxes, but inDropbox paper we can literally
like have a bunch of notes underone specific check mark and
have notes from the client andfeedback that we need to like
wrap the rest of the day.
So, yeah, I would say those areour two big ones.
We use Slack for all of ourinternal communication, but I
feel like that's a given.
(26:08):
Slack is pretty popular amongteams these days.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, I think maybe two years ago I moved to
Teamwork for project managementand it does allow you to put in
notes and everything withinthose little tasks.
Okay, good to know, teamwork,Teamwork.
It's nice for agencies too,because, like all of the billing
(26:33):
can be in there too, so youunderstand how profitable the
project is.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, good to know, I'll check that out.
Teamwork.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Oh, and it has a Slack.
Well, it has its own version ofSlack in there.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Okay, cool, so everything could be in one place
.
Yeah, we have thought aboutmoving to something that, like
we've looked at Notion and we'velooked at a couple other
software that could consolidatethings a bit more.
So I think that could be afuture.
Maybe Put it on the list.
Two, three, four.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah, check it out.
I've heard good things aboutNotion.
It's more of like a wiki forSOPs.
I mean that sounds likesomething that could be
beneficial for you too since youguys are like killing it with
your processes.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, thanks, yeah.
No, we're always like wide opento process improvements and
whatnot.
I think we're frequently alwayslooking at like okay, who came
out with a better software thanwhat we're using and all that?
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Good tip.
Yeah, I'm always talking abouthow I'm like the chronic beta
tester.
If something's out, I will tryit, I will dig in it.
I love her.
Yeah, good, I have a lot oflogins.
I probably have thousands oflogins out there.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I know, yeah, 1password is like our lifesaver,
because you know, we have agazillion logins all in one
place.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Oh my gosh, I know Me too.
I would be screwed without apassword manager, word manager.
Okay, is there anything that wemissed and, if not, can?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
you tell people how they can work with Knapsack?
Yeah, let's see.
Is there anything that wemissed?
Yeah, I think that pretty muchcovers everything In terms of
how people can work withKnapsack.
You can go to our website,knapsackcreativecom.
On our website, there is aschedule, a meeting with a
designer button across the siteand you can actually fill out
(28:39):
that form and we would set up adiscovery meeting and so that
would be a good way that peoplecan reach us.
We're also on Instagram andFacebook Not super active
currently, sorry.
We are there.
Oh, and you guys have a podcastcalled the Friday Habit, and so
(29:06):
it's really great for talkingabout systems and processes and,
yeah, basically making yourbusiness more efficient and
whatnot.
So, yeah, you can check outthat podcast, the Friday Habit,
and hear from Ben.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Savannah and
getting a behind the scenes.
Look at how they create anamazing client experience and
I'm saying that with afirst-hand experience, since
they were my web design companyand no, they didn't pay me or
(29:38):
give me a free discount to saythat I paid full price and I
still loved them.
I paid full price and I stillloved them.
So check out Knapsack if youare a Squarespace website or if
you're thinking about moving toSquarespace.
Their experience is amazing.
They do beautiful work.
I adore them and if you enjoyedthis episode, remember to like,
(30:03):
rate, review, subscribe.
Enjoyed this episode.
Remember to like, rate review,subscribe and hit share.
I'm going to give you a secondright now.
Do it, hit that share button,share it with a friend and let
them know hey, this is how youcreate an amazing client
experience.
So I'm going to reiterate someof my favorite points from that.
So what they do is they havereally clear SOPs, standard
(30:26):
operating procedures, and theyhave it all documented.
They have templates for theirproject management that are all
ready to go.
They have a website dedicatedto just client onboarding where
they have the roadmap thatclients will experience on there
and they just duplicate it,change the URL, so it's just for
(30:46):
you and you have a clearoverview of what you need.
They use Content Snare togather all of the information
that they need to be able to dothe project as efficiently as
possible and last.
They live and die by timeblocks and they had a really
beautiful system for that, whichI'm totally gonna steal.
(31:08):
As soon as I'm done recordingthis episode Gonna go into my
calendar start time blocking it.
So beautiful creatures, thankyou again for joining me.
I love you, I love you, I loveyou, I appreciate you, and the
fact that you spend timelistening to me jabber on about
marketing every week means theworld to me.
(31:29):
Goodbye.
We're like all right, let's show up, get this done,
and then by the end of the day,yeah, you have a completed
website, We'll launch it, youknow, when they're ready.
And so, yeah, it's verytime-blocked, it's very
efficient and it's verycollaborative.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello, hello, this is Sarah Noel Block, and you're
listening to Tiny Marketing.
Have you ever had an experiencethat just gave you the warm and
fuzzies?
You worked with a contractor oran employee and it just was so
easy that you couldn't stopthinking about it.
(00:37):
You actually, at the end of theday, were like I am so glad
that I have $5,000 less moneybecause I got to experience that
with that person.
That's how I felt after usingKnapsack Creative for my recent
website redesign.
I enjoyed the experience somuch that I had to dig in more.
(01:04):
I reached out to the team atKnapsack, and specifically
Savannah, who is my designer,and I begged her please tell me
how you create that amazingclient experience.
And she sat down with me togive me the lowdown the ins and
outs, from beginning to end, onhow they craft such a beautiful
(01:26):
client experience, and we'resharing that conversation today.
So get out your notebook.
Enjoy the fact that you areabout to get a masterclass on
how to create a seamlessexperience for your clients or
even your company.
This can be applied to any sortof project that you're doing,
(01:53):
so whether you're in-house oryou are a marketer or a solo
entrepreneur and you're doingclient stuff.
You can apply this process thatshe's teaching me today into
your projects, and I'm tellingyou now I'm going to steal a
(02:16):
bunch of this.
So when you're working with meand you're like, this sounds
familiar, this is the reason.
It's because I'm stealingSavannah's SOPs right now.
All right, stay tuned.
We're talking to Savannah fromNetSap Creative in just a moment
.
Hey there, fellow entrepreneursand B2B marketers, before we
(02:39):
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(03:01):
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(03:44):
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Leadfeeder.
I used Knapsack for my websiteredesign.
If you want to check it out,that work is theirs.
Savannah was my designer andthe reason I reached out to ask
(04:08):
her to be on the show is becauseI freaking loved the experience
that I had.
It was so seamless and easy andit put me in a position where I
couldn't fail, because I'mpulled in a thousand different
directions being a solopreneur,and she made it so easy for me
to do my homework on time andmake sure that the project ran
(04:30):
on time and I wasn't ruining heropportunity to do a good job.
That's awesome yeah it was superfun to work together.
We are digging into theexperience today because I was
obsessed with it.
I was just like trying toreverse engineer how you guys do
what you do.
Can you tell me how you guyscame up with, or first describe,
(04:56):
the experience that clients gothrough and then we can dig into
the back, the back end of it?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, yeah, totally Well.
Yeah, like I said, we were aSquarespace web design agency,
so we build Squarespace websitesfor our clients and we do it in
as little as a day, so it'skind of the big process piece.
So we're just very big onprocess and systems, like I said
, and we're trying to create theworld's best web design
(05:24):
experience is kind of our thingthat we're just constantly
pursuing.
So, in terms of the experienceand what a client goes through
and feel free to chime in, sinceyou went through- it, I will.
First we'll meet with somebodyto just make sure they're a good
fit.
We're really big on making surethat you know somebody is going
(05:45):
to align with our process.
It's not for everybody, becauseit is pretty fast-paced and you
do have to be, you know, aquick decision maker and all of
that.
We also want to make sureSquarespace is a good fit.
But essentially, once they'veonboarded into our process, we
give them a project map whichbasically lays out all the steps
in the process.
(06:05):
So it's really clear they knowexactly what to expect and
what's happening when withcalendar, invites and things on
the calendar and really the bulkof the process for the client.
Once they've done their homework, we have a pretty organized
intake prep guide.
But then essentially we'll havea one hour meeting to review
the prep guide.
(06:26):
So that's kind of like, hey,this is when your homework's due
, like you're going to meet withyour designer over the chat,
and so it just creates likeclarity around a due date and I
think for everybody just allhumans we need that.
Yeah, so that that reviewsession is when we review the
(06:46):
prep guide.
So basically, just look at alltheir homework, get on the same
page, make sure we haveeverything we need to complete
the process and then about aweek later we do what we call
the design day.
Sometimes there's a coupledesign days if it's a bigger
site, but I think for your sitewe just did one design day.
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, we did the whole thing in one day.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Boom One day.
So, yeah, that's our prettylike that's our most common
package, and so what that lookslike is we actually are building
the site throughout the day.
We do do some prep work aheadof time, so it's not entirely
that day, but we're basicallymeeting over video chat, screen
sharing, asking for feedback,and then we're jumping off for a
(07:27):
couple hours building the nextpage, getting feedback, and so
it's very collaborative and fastpaced.
And so I mentioned it's not foreverybody, because if people
need like a lot of time to thinkover their decisions or the
shade of blue that we're usingor the icons, it's probably not
a good fit, because we're allabout efficiency.
(07:49):
We're like, all right, let'sshow up, get this done, and then
by the end of the day, yeah,you have a completed website,
we'll launch it.
You know when they're ready.
And so, yeah, it's very timeblocked, it's very efficient and
it's very collaborative.
We it's very time-blocked, it'svery efficient and it's very
collaborative.
We hate the idea of likeemailing back and forwards for
(08:10):
weeks and weeks and like gettingfeedback that way.
Or else we're like let's get onvideo chat, let's talk, let's
get this done in terms of, youknow, making decisions and all
that.
So that's high level.
Yeah, anything that you wouldadd, just having gone through it
, or anything I missed, yes, ohwell, I noticed.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So we had our fit call to see if I made sense to
work with your agency and howyou guys work.
And then at the kickoff call,that's when you went over like
what homework I would need andwe kind of picked out what
package I would need if we couldactually get it done in a day.
(08:48):
Right, and what is the toolthat you used for collecting the
content that you needed?
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, we have Content Snare and we've kind of built
out like a custom thing inContent Snare, which is an
amazing tool, for I mean, itworks for lots of different
industries.
So yeah, contentsnarecom.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
That's right.
I told so many people about itafter we worked together.
I was like Content Snare.
It's amazing.
Yeah, pretty powerful, yeah.
The other thing that I noticedis like the vast majority of the
website was done before ourdesign day and what we did in
(09:31):
like the first call of the daywas just go through the details,
like where I wanted specificchanges, but the vast majority
was done Like specific changes,but the vast majority was done
Like I don't know, the house wasbuilt it was just like picking
paint colors and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, you gave us a lot to work with.
I would say that is contingenton how much like branding
elements we have to work with.
Sometimes if somebody doesn'thave anything, then we're like
making more of those decisionsin the day.
No-transcript, because weactually the calendar invite is
(10:49):
like a full time block Becausewe do want people to be
available in case I need to meetmore times.
But usually that happens wherepeople are like yeah, I blocked
off the whole day.
I thought maybe I would have tobe on video chat longer, but
like I got a ton of other stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yeah Well, and it's nice because you're not
scheduling other meetings, soyou can actually get work done
in between working on yourwebsite.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Our secret way of reviewing you.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, yeah, that was helpful.
I'm sorry I'm busy that day,cannot meet.
I want to go backwards in time,though, so let's talk from that
.
So we had the fit call.
You were like, okay, I thinkshe can be fast-paced and work
with us, and then you guys gaveme content snare, where I
(11:36):
provided copywriting and theexamples of the websites I liked
and things like that.
But the thing that was reallycool is that you had mapped out
the project, so I knew exactlywhat to look, what it would look
like, so explain that to me.
They're not all custom, I'msure, so you probably have
pre-designed workflows thatyou're working with.
(11:58):
How did that work?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, so it makes it nice because we're web designers
, so that's actually aSquarespace website that we
built.
So we have all the tools andwhatnot to essentially create
that page.
But yeah, it's basically a pagewhere it has like the five
steps in the process and theneach section just describes the
different steps.
It's actually really nicebecause our process doesn't
(12:23):
change and so we really are ableto use one template to just
duplicate for all of ourdifferent projects.
The only thing that changes isthe number of design days, and
so for the design day spot inthe process, you know, maybe
someone would have threedifferent design days and we
just write those out in thecalendar.
So, yeah, that's basicallysomething we built in
(12:45):
Squarespace.
We made it branded to our ownbrand and colors and whatnot.
And basically our projectmanager every time we have a
project onboarded which ispretty frequently because our
turnaround time is pretty quickneeded it to be like really easy
.
She just duplicates a page inSquarespace, plugs in dates and
(13:06):
name and customizes it a littlebit Pretty minimal.
So I would say like I don'tknow she would know better, but
maybe like 10 minutes of workeach time where she's just
having to update links and textand whatnot?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
That's cool.
I'm going to totally steal thatidea, yeah you have a
Squarespace site.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
I do, I do.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I kind of take that when I'm podcast guesting and
I'll have a landing page that Ijust duplicate and change out
the certain information I needfor that specific podcast so I
can track conversion rates fromthose experiences.
But I'm guessing it's similar.
Does it live on your website ordo you have a separate domain?
(13:47):
I can't remember what thedomain was for that anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
It's mapnapsacreativecom, so it's a
separate Squarespace site.
The reason we did that ifyou're only going to have like a
dozen of them or so a year thatneed to be active a dozen of
them or so a year that need tobe active it could leave live on
your existing site.
However, we have like hundredsover the last few years, yeah,
(14:11):
and we like to put them just incase, like a client wants to
reference their training videolink from the past project or
whatever, and so, because wehave so many, we just decided to
create a separate site.
So, yeah, it is a separate.
Keep it clean With clean.
Yeah, we already have way toomany pages in our existing site,
(14:32):
so yeah, that would be insane.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Hundreds of pages on your website, bah yeah.
Do you keep them private then?
So they're not searchable.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
So they're not searchable, yeah they're not
searchable, like even thesubdomain.
If you go there like there'snot even yeah, it's none of it
can be found or anything likethat?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, that makes sense.
It's private, personalized forthe company that you're working
with.
Now you mentioned time blocking, so how does that work when you
are front loading and doingparts of the website ahead of
time?
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah.
So I mean I can first justshare, like how we time block
the projects because that mightbe useful, and then kind of get
into like how we actually breakup the pieces of work without
being helpful.
Yeah, that's perfect, yeah,cool.
So I mean we've basicallyfigured out a way to scope out
(15:35):
the work so we can kind ofpredict okay, this package needs
this amount of time and we havea scoping tool and a very
predictable set of processes,you know.
So we have a checklist that wego through every single time and
that process doesn't change.
Of course there's variables andchallenges and things that you
need to time manage, but thenice thing.
(15:57):
So our calendar is pretty rigid,where Tuesdays and Thursdays
are our project days and so, nomatter what those are, when
design days get booked, I don'tthink we've ever had in like 11,
12 years a Monday or Wednesdayproject, which is just so funny.
And then Monday and Wednesdaysare our meeting days and then
Fridays are strictly internaldays, so we actually don't do
(16:20):
any client work.
So you can look at the month ofMarch and say, okay, all these
Tuesdays and Thursdays areavailable slots for these
different designers, we knowwhen people are off and all of
that and then essentially it'sreally easy to schedule and book
and whatnot, because our daypack package is one design day.
(16:40):
So our project manager knows,okay, you know March 5th is
going to be for this person andso, anyways, there's just a lot
of predictability when you getinto time blocking, because it
is pretty rigid and systematic,if you will.
But then in terms of how webreak it up, it really is our
process and our checklist.
(17:00):
I mean, it would beoverwhelming to show if you won
the checklist, because there'sjust a lot of different steps
but it's all broken up in theprocesses.
So the designer knows, okay,what do I need to do before my
review session?
And so there's some prep workfor the site and even that is
time blocked.
So you have two hours beforeyour review session.
So there's literally athree-hour block.
(17:22):
So the designer preps for twohours and then they meet with
the client for one hour and thenthe prep time is time blocked.
So that's about four hours.
Sometimes we only need one ortwo hours, but there's at least
four hours on the day before thedesign day, which is a Monday
or Wednesday, and then there's,you know, the seven, eight hour
(17:44):
block during the design day.
So literally everything has atimestamp and again, I think
because of our scoping tool,there are times where we under
quote and I always feel reallybad about it, or like which
package they?
would choose Just like oh, thisone probably could have used
more time, so yeah, on whichpackage.
(18:05):
They would choose Just like ooh, this one probably could have
used more time, so yeah, onwhich package?
But the designer has likebuffer time, so that's the other
.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah, so you feel bad because you are the person who
is deciding the time frame.
I get it now.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Sorry that was my bad , but I think a big part of time
blocking is creating buffer,because you need margin for
error.
So we say Fridays are only forinternal time.
However, they're also a reallynice buffer day if, for some
reason, like a designer needs acouple extra hours.
So that's kind of how it allhappens on the calendar.
(18:46):
Really, everything is justpre-scheduled and you know, our
designers are very trained inour process and so super
predictable for them, like theycan look weeks ahead in advance
and know all right, these twohours I'm prepping for my review
session.
This day I'm doing a design day.
This day I'm prepping, sothere's basically just time
(19:07):
blocks throughout the processand so we're able to get that
work done.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
You know, the day before the design day and kind
of come, like you said, withsome more stuff to show, and so
it makes the design day lessstressful design day less
stressful, yeah, yeah, so okay,I'm going to reiterate for
listeners yes, so four hoursbefore the design day they have
(19:36):
time to like, prepare the, theskeleton site.
We'll say and, or a first draftsite, and then they have the
review day and they do.
They have a two hour time blockbefore the call starts and
that's for just going throughtheir checklist.
They have the items that theyneed to go through and then they
have the review call and thenthey have eight to nine hours
(20:00):
during the day to do any of therevisions or design work that
they have to do based off of thereview call, and then you have
a wrap-up call right At the endof the day.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
There is not a wrap-up call, or yes, during the
design day?
Yeah, that would be within likethe eight or so hour day.
Yeah, there would be a wrap-upcall yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So the wrap-up call I'm remembering back to my
experience happened towards itwas like in the afternoon, after
we had squared everything awayand you're like any changes, I'm
like no, and then we would hitpublish.
So that's how that would happen.
So if that wrap-up call in theafternoon, they're like I have
(20:42):
major changes actually, whatwould you do then?
Speaker 1 (20:46):
That's a great question.
I get asked that prettyfrequently.
We ideally have some differentlike you know what do you call
them?
Fail stops before that, like,in other words, conversations
that we're already having wherewe feel like we're really on the
same page and we're constantlychecking in.
We're really having where wefeel like we're really on the
same page and we're constantlychecking in.
(21:07):
We're really big on clearcommunication like hey, how are
you feeling about things?
Is this heading in the rightdirection?
I mean, I can't think of a timeprobably been like one time
that I can think of where thisdidn't happen.
But it's very rare that we'renot on the same page and heading
in the right direction in termsof the overall style and
(21:29):
because we're having thoselittle meetings throughout and
showing progress, we're notgoing to get so far ahead with a
design or a style that theclient's like whoa, this was not
what I was expecting at all.
If, for some reason, a clientis like I'm just having second
thoughts, like I, instead ofthis illustrated style, I
(21:50):
actually want to use all photos,they usually know that that's
kind of like on them and that itwas like something that.
Okay, you know, we are going toneed to book more time.
So really like, the shortanswer is that we would just
book more time, but I'm.
The caveat is that it's prettyrare that we get to the end of
(22:11):
the day and they're like thisisn't what I wanted, because
we've been collaborating forhours and hours.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
So yeah, yeah, I always call those micro yeses in
projects, making sure you'regetting a micro yes at little
intervals within the project soyou know you're in the right
direction.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, that's exactly it.
Micro yeses, I love that.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I'll steal that Good because I'm stealing this
process.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I love that we talked about how the process has
translated to a lot of the workthat you do.
It's just really cool when Ihear that, because we have a
copywriter friend that has kindof extrapolated a lot of our
process into you know, she doeslike copywriting in a day, and
so I think it's just really coolbecause it's not only like a
win for clients but it's also awin Like I think you've
(22:59):
experienced positive, yeah, howyou work and what you're on and
time blocking and even likepredictable revenue is kind of
nice Like, okay, I know, onthese days I'm, you know,
knocking out these projects, soit's just cool, but there's been
some stealing.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, I, anytime I it's rare.
I really really love anexperience that I've had.
I really really love anexperience that I've had and
anytime it happens.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I'm like, what pieces of that can I pull into my
process?
It's smart.
Yeah, we do the same thing.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Okay, so what was I going to ask you specifically I
wanted to ask you this isn't thequestion that I had in mind
right now, but I'm going to gowith it anyway what tools do you
use throughout it, like projectmanagement?
I know you use Content Snarefor gathering the information
ahead of time.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Yeah, so Astana is a big project management tool.
So our project manager lives inAsana in terms of moving the
client through our process, solike send the invoice, like add
the calendar date, you know allthose different pieces that she
kind of has to do from a highlevel.
So Asana is a big one.
(24:20):
And then all of our filestorage is in Dropbox, and so
Dropbox paper, which is kind oflike the Google Doc version of,
has become where all of ourother like checklists and
whatnot, live or doc.
(24:41):
So picture, like you know, anonline blank document for every
single client.
So we have one called tinymarketing and each time we're
pasting in that same checklist.
So we have a discovery meetingchecklist, we have a content
review session checklist, wehave a design day checklist, we
have a site launch checklist,and it just goes on and on.
So we paste that in every time,or I think it's actually a
(25:04):
template that our projectmanager just creates each time.
And so basically, a designerknows, okay, they look at their
calendar, they have tinymarketing on their calendar and
they just go to that paper docand they can have it up and just
basically start knocking thingsout.
Start knocking things out.
So yeah, I would say Asana andDropbox Paper are the big ones.
(25:26):
We really like Dropbox Paperfor our design process because
it gives us a lot moreflexibility to take notes and
move things around and make itour own.
I don't know how familiar youare with Asana, but we tried to
move everything into Asana whenwe moved over to it, but it's
not as like fluid and flexible,like it's really great at having
(25:47):
organized check boxes, but inDropbox paper we can literally
like have a bunch of notes underone specific check mark and
have notes from the client andfeedback that we need to like
wrap the rest of the day.
So, yeah, I would say those areour two big ones.
We use Slack for all of ourinternal communication, but I
feel like that's a given.
(26:08):
Slack is pretty popular amongteams these days.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, I think maybe two years ago I moved to
Teamwork for project managementand it does allow you to put in
notes and everything withinthose little tasks.
Okay, good to know, teamwork,Teamwork.
It's nice for agencies too,because, like all of the billing
(26:33):
can be in there too, so youunderstand how profitable the
project is.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, good to know, I'll check that out.
Teamwork.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Oh, and it has a Slack.
Well, it has its own version ofSlack in there.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Okay, cool, so everything could be in one place
.
Yeah, we have thought aboutmoving to something that, like
we've looked at Notion and we'velooked at a couple other
software that could consolidatethings a bit more.
So I think that could be afuture.
Maybe Put it on the list.
Two, three, four.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah, check it out.
I've heard good things aboutNotion.
It's more of like a wiki forSOPs.
I mean that sounds likesomething that could be
beneficial for you too since youguys are like killing it with
your processes.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, thanks, yeah.
No, we're always like wide opento process improvements and
whatnot.
I think we're frequently alwayslooking at like okay, who came
out with a better software thanwhat we're using and all that?
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Good tip.
Yeah, I'm always talking abouthow I'm like the chronic beta
tester.
If something's out, I will tryit, I will dig in it.
I love her.
Yeah, good, I have a lot oflogins.
I probably have thousands oflogins out there.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I know, yeah, 1password is like our lifesaver,
because you know, we have agazillion logins all in one
place.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Oh my gosh, I know Me too.
I would be screwed without apassword manager, word manager.
Okay, is there anything that wemissed and, if not, can?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
you tell people how they can work with Knapsack?
Yeah, let's see.
Is there anything that wemissed?
Yeah, I think that pretty muchcovers everything In terms of
how people can work withKnapsack.
You can go to our website,knapsackcreativecom.
On our website, there is aschedule, a meeting with a
designer button across the siteand you can actually fill out
(28:39):
that form and we would set up adiscovery meeting and so that
would be a good way that peoplecan reach us.
We're also on Instagram andFacebook Not super active
currently, sorry.
We are there.
Oh, and you guys have a podcastcalled the Friday Habit, and so
(29:06):
it's really great for talkingabout systems and processes and,
yeah, basically making yourbusiness more efficient and
whatnot.
So, yeah, you can check outthat podcast, the Friday Habit,
and hear from Ben.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Savannah and
getting a behind the scenes.
Look at how they create anamazing client experience and
I'm saying that with afirst-hand experience, since
they were my web design companyand no, they didn't pay me or
(29:38):
give me a free discount to saythat I paid full price and I
still loved them.
I paid full price and I stillloved them.
So check out Knapsack if youare a Squarespace website or if
you're thinking about moving toSquarespace.
Their experience is amazing.
They do beautiful work.
I adore them and if you enjoyedthis episode, remember to like,
(30:03):
rate, review, subscribe.
Enjoyed this episode.
Remember to like, rate review,subscribe and hit share.
I'm going to give you a secondright now.
Do it, hit that share button,share it with a friend and let
them know hey, this is how youcreate an amazing client
experience.
So I'm going to reiterate someof my favorite points from that.
So what they do is they havereally clear SOPs, standard
(30:26):
operating procedures, and theyhave it all documented.
They have templates for theirproject management that are all
ready to go.
They have a website dedicatedto just client onboarding where
they have the roadmap thatclients will experience on there
and they just duplicate it,change the URL, so it's just for
(30:46):
you and you have a clearoverview of what you need.
They use Content Snare togather all of the information
that they need to be able to dothe project as efficiently as
possible and last.
They live and die by timeblocks and they had a really
beautiful system for that, whichI'm totally gonna steal.
(31:08):
As soon as I'm done recordingthis episode Gonna go into my
calendar start time blocking it.
So beautiful creatures, thankyou again for joining me.
I love you, I love you, I loveyou, I appreciate you, and the
fact that you spend timelistening to me jabber on about
marketing every week means theworld to me.
(31:29):
Goodbye.
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