December 7, 2025 • 42 mins
We break down how to turn everyday moments into immersive, open-worthy emails using a simple three-layer framework: storytelling, personality-infused copy, and strategy. We share hooks, edits, CTAs with reasons, and where storytelling fits across sequences and newsletters.
• Three-layer email framework: story, personality, strategy
• Show don’t tell, strong hooks, satisfying endings
• Everyday stories tied to lessons and offers
• Ruthless editing using the so what test
• Reasons-first CTAs that increase clicks
• BANK personality codes to speak to values
• Welcome, pre-launch, and sales sequences
• Repurposing emails into video, blogs, and podcasts
• Shift from convincing to diagnosing symptoms and causes
• Start simple with one story and one clear next step
You love all things tiny marketing. Head down to the show notes page and sign up for the wait list to join the Tiny Marketing Club, where you get to work one-on-one with me with trainings, feedback, and pop-up coaching that will help you scale your marketing as a B2B service business
Joanne Homestead:
Joanne Homestead is your expert email copywriter, holistic copy coach, and obsessed storyteller. With over 15 years of experience creating captivating and aligned messaging as a master teacher, she empowers soulful entrepreneurs and coaches in wellness, well-being, and mindset elevate their stories to connect, compel, and soulfully sell with integrity, email-style. She’s a momma of two little ones and loves a good cup of chai to fuel her creativity and passion for storytelling marketing.
Website | LinkedIn | Guide to Writing Irresistibly Entertaining Emails the Sell | Quiz: What's your best step to cultivate deeper connections in email?
Join my events community for FREE monthly events.
I offer free events each month to help you master your business's growth through marketing, sales, systems, and offer strategy.
Join the community here!
Are you tired of prospects ghosting you? With a Gateway Offer, that won't happen.
Over the next Ten Days, we will launch and sell our Gateway Offers with the goal of reaching booked-out status!
Join the challenge here.
Schedule a Booked-out Blueprint >>> Schedule.
Come tour my digital home :) >>>Website
Wanna be friends? >>> LinkedIn
Let's chat every Tuesday! >>> Newsletter
Catch the video podcast on YouTube >>>YouTube
Join my event group for live events >>>Meetup
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
This is Sarah Blah Block, a podcast that helps B2B
service businesses do more withless.
Learn lean, actionable, organicmarketing strategies you can
implement today.
No fluff, just powerful growthtactics that work.
Ready to scale smarter?
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
Hit that subscribe button and start growing your
business with tiny marketing.
SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
Hey Joanne.
Can you introduce yourself tothe audience?
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
Hey, yes, Sarah.
So I am Joanne Homestead of DeskPlant Creatives.
I am an email copywriter, copycoach, and story whisperer.
And so I really empower femaleentrepreneurs and coaches in
wellness, well-being, andmindset to be able to write
(02:23):
open-worthy email that get moreengagement, more clicks, and
more client coming through intheir emails, all through their
100% authentic writing voice.
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
That is amazing.
And I love the angle that we'regoing with this because like I
love email marketing.
It's my favorite way because Ican connect one-on-one with my
audience.
So it's my favorite thing to do.
However, oh I hear the I hearthe three-year-old.
There's just got home.
(02:56):
So you weren't lying.
You do see just literally gothome from preschools.
Oh, yes.
Oh, so me too.
Yeah, nice.
Okay.
So today we're talking about thestorytelling element of it.
So um I want to get intointroduce introducing that to
(03:20):
the audience.
So, like, what is the firstemail that you want to send to
kind of set the stage that thisisn't an ordinary mom?
Cool mom.
No, this isn't a normal emailcampaign.
You're being taken on a journey,you're hearing a story.
SPEAKER_01 (03:38):
Oh, yes.
Um, I think there's still liketwo parts to that I'd like to
talk about.
One is like the storytellingpiece of it.
And then the other piece of kindof what you're talking about is
um, how do we start setting thetone from that first email and
training your email readers towant to open your email and read
(03:59):
through it and you know, readfirst line to the second line to
the third, all the way to thebottom.
And so that piece is kind oflike what I talk about is the
personality-infused copy pieceof it.
So, what as an email copywriter,I like to think of it in three,
like three layers.
The first top layer, like, okay,I'm all into like the Great
(04:22):
British Baking Show.
SPEAKER_00 (04:23):
So I can't not watch baking shows in the winter.
There's just something so cozyabout them.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
I have been, I so you know, winter is coming here,
and so um the Great BritishBaking Show is number one on the
list because my boys likewatching it too, and it's really
fun and it's cozy.
So this is gonna be a cakeanalogy.
SPEAKER_00 (04:44):
Okay, let's go.
SPEAKER_01 (04:46):
The first layer is the the storytelling.
The second layer is thecopywriting, and that's where
it's the personality infusedcopy.
And then the third layer is theemail strategy.
So let's just start with thelet's let's start with the first
layer with the storytellingpiece of it.
Um, and then we can talk alittle bit about the cop the
(05:08):
personality, personality infusedcopy.
So the storytelling, what I liketo compare it to in your emails,
is it's like taking yourmarketing, your your expertise,
your you're writing about umyour expertise as an
(05:28):
entrepreneur coach.
And that's kind of like the 2D.
It's like you open a book andit's 2D.
And then the storytelling isadding like a 3D immersive
element to it.
And that's the piece of like theit's like an open-worthy email.
People want to open it, theyfeel immersed in it.
(05:49):
It's like dropping someone intolike a movie trailer, you know.
So hot-up books these days are,I don't know if you've seen them
at the library, but they'revery, they're so intricate.
They used to be, you know, Ithink when I was a kid, you'd
you'd open it and one littlelike a bunny pops up.
SPEAKER_00 (06:06):
Yeah.
And they had like one littlefold that would go back.
SPEAKER_01 (06:10):
Yeah, you just get the one fold.
And um, when my older son wastwo years old and we went to the
library and he found the pop-upbook section.
I audibly gasped when I openedthe pop-up books now because an
entire you open the page and anentire world pops out.
It's super intricate.
(06:30):
And it even has a little pageson that page where you can open
it and then as a mini immersivepop-up, it's it really is like
you're entering into the world.
And so storytelling to me islike that.
It's like turning your 2Dmarketing into like 3D
immersive, you're connectingemotionally with them and
(06:50):
they're getting to know youthrough your stories as well.
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
Okay, I have questions.
So, one, I don't know if youknow this about me, but I'm also
a fiction writer.
And when I think of storytellingand immersion, I think show,
don't tell.
Make them feel like they'rethere, make them feel like they
are feeling the pain that you'refeeling.
(07:16):
Now, is that what you be mean bystorytelling?
Because there's so manyinterpretations of it.
SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
Okay, yes, that's such a good question.
I love how you're also, I thinkI do remember saying you're a
fiction writer because I'mgetting your emails and I love
them.
So thanks.
I think I remember seeing thatin there.
So, yes, great question.
What I like to think about isthere are the storytelling
techniques, which is kind ofwhat you're talking about, which
(07:42):
is the show don't tell.
I'm also a former teacher of 15years, and I taught um literacy,
and I was also a literacyspecialist and coach.
And so one of my biggestpassions was writing and
teaching my students how towrite in a way that's
compelling, and it's not thehere's your five paragraphs
(08:03):
essay.
SPEAKER_00 (08:04):
Start with your introduction, you gotta have
three So that's what my kids aredoing right now, and they're
always showing it to me.
And they're like, How would youcompare this to the kind of
writing you do?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
And I just say, like, you throw that all out
that you learned from from fromschool.
Um, it says really about eveneven when teaching students how
to write, it's thosestorytelling techniques.
One is like show, don't tell,you know, another is how do you
hook, how do you hook the readerin from the first down?
SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
That's huge.
SPEAKER_01 (08:39):
Yeah, yeah.
That's a that's a big one.
And that one's like, I feel likea lot of people get stuck on
that one, which I have a lot oftechniques around like how to
not end up in paralysis whenyou're writing.
There's a lot of differenttechniques.
So the storytelling that I liketo talk about, um, there's like
seven different types of storiesI like to um teach to my members
(09:00):
in my program.
Uh, one of the my favoritesbeing like the everyday story.
And so you're taking storiesjust from your everyday life,
which a lot of people think, oh,it's boring, no one wants to
hear it.
You know, I'm I'm going outgrocery shopping with my kids or
anything like that.
SPEAKER_00 (09:18):
And I don't know why, but that is also the first
thing that popped into my mindgrocery shopping.
SPEAKER_01 (09:23):
Yes, grocery shopping, go to go get coffee.
Like those everyday stories areit's just like unlimited
storytelling content for yourbusiness.
Um, and I think the great thingabout those stories is that
they're relatable.
Like you immediately thought oflike, yes, grocery shopping,
which grocery shopping with kidsis never boring.
So maybe that's not the success.
SPEAKER_00 (09:45):
No, but it is something you probably end up
doing like every day becauseyou're like, I forgot that
thing.
SPEAKER_01 (09:51):
Yes, every time we're like, ah, we have to go
back to the store.
(10:55):
And so these everyday storiesyou can tell in your emails in a
way that's compelling throughstorytelling techniques like
show don't tell, how to hook thereader in, um, how to write,
like how to get that emotionalconnection in your writing.
And so then you can basicallytake those stories and connect
(11:18):
it to what you do in your yourbusiness, you know, what what
your expertise is.
So, like, for example, um uh anacme specialist can connect it
to how does this how does herstory relate to how does she
loves roller skating?
I'm sorry, I'm thinking of apast client here.
SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
She loved roller skating.
That was very specific.
It was very specific.
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
She wrote a story about roller skating, and then
it segues into talking about umhow this relates to her client
(12:46):
and their hormones and how thatrelates to to acne.
And so as a teacher, I believelike any story can be connected
to any any kind of lesson youlike what's the takeaway you
want your readers to come awaywith.
Um, and so yeah, everydaystories are are my favorite out
of the seven.
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
Yeah.
And that just reminded me alsowhen you're writing, you want
people to be compelled to turnthe page.
So do you have like there'scliffhangers, there's oh, like
leaving someone on on a pointwhere they need to know more.
(13:26):
So how would you use that inemail?
SPEAKER_01 (13:29):
Oh, yes.
Okay, such a great question.
So I okay, so all good storieshave like the beginning, you
have the art, and then you havelike a satisfying, you gotta
have a satisfying ending, right?
Yeah, and I feel like each emailcan it can have that.
And then also want you to leadon to, oh, there's more, like
(13:53):
there's more.
And then, oh, there's more, oh,there's more.
Like it's continually likepeeling back the layers.
So definitely one is for eachemail, I don't I don't
necessarily like to hook someonein and I teach this to my
clients, and then like leavethem hanging, where it's like
this, it's not satisfyingbecause you feel like, oh, I I
(14:16):
need to put it in the next emailto keep them reading.
Like you want them to have thatlike satisfying, oh, okay, you
know, at the end of the email.
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
And you know, that that I need to read more could
be from paragraph to paragraphtoo.
Like, how do you keep themengaged?
SPEAKER_01 (14:35):
Right.
Yeah.
And that's that's the thing withlike starting with the first
line, how do you get them toread the second line?
How do you get them to read thethird line?
I would say that the most commonmistake I see with writing in
emails is that once people startwith like an introductory
paragraph, that they can just umthey can just delete that whole
paragraph because they're goingback to what they had learned
(14:58):
from writing in in school is Ineed to have like a whole
introductory paragraph.
It's gonna, I gotta set, I gottaset up the whole scene.
But instead of that, and that'swhere the hook comes in, is like
usually you can take that firstwhole introductory paragraph and
you can literally just likethrow it away.
And that's okay.
I know a lot of people feel likeI'd spent I spent that time to
(15:21):
to write.
I put that energy and mentaleffort into it.
You know, people might have likean emotional connection to that
paragraph.
Um, but I like to say that'spart of the writing process.
So it's okay to have that partin there because it's it's just
like a part of when you'rewriting, how you can get into
the flow.
And then when you go back,that's when you go, okay, I can
(15:41):
this usually this first wholeparagraph I can just throw out.
It was a great way for me to getinto the writing, but it just it
really isn't gonna hook andcapture someone's attention for
the rest of the email.
So I would say that's definitelyone of the biggest mistakes.
And then definitely afterwriting that first messy draft,
because there's there's alwaysgonna be the first messy draft,
(16:03):
and that's okay.
When you go back, that's when umyou can use uh I like to call it
like the ruthless pruner.
Basically, you're gonna gothrough and you're gonna see um
what you can cut out.
And when you do that, you'rejust asking yourself, so what?
Like you're putting yourselfinto the shoes of your readers,
(16:28):
and they're continually gonna beasking themselves, okay, so
what?
Like, what does this have to dowith with me?
Not like they're being selfish,but in a way of they're really
wanting to be there tounderstand what what your
expertise is and how does thatrelate back to them.
So when you're going back andediting and revising your email,
always be reading from that lensand seeing, okay, like why, like
(16:54):
every word and sentence has apurpose.
Like, why, why is this here?
What's the purpose?
And if there is no purpose, thenyou could probably it could
probably go or you can uh moveit to a different part of the
the email.
SPEAKER_00 (17:08):
Okay, so that makes sense.
I think I understand the storystructure.
Um, let's talk about that secondpiece, setting the stage.
So, from that first email, howdo we get our readers to
understand like this is theexperience you're gonna get from
me?
SPEAKER_01 (17:28):
Yeah.
So that is like the personallyinfused copy, the middle layer
of that wonderfully, deliciouslychocolate cake, whatever cake
you want there.
Um, and that's where you havethat layer of the storytelling.
And then the copywriting pieceis I'd like to explain is um how
(17:50):
do you orchestrate your words sothat it compel someone to take
action?
Um, and it's not about beingpushy, it's not about
manipulative marketing.
It's really just about um how doyou get someone to own their
action, the action that you wantthem to take?
And it's the same thing inteaching for my students.
(18:12):
I'm not forcing them to like,you have to learn this, this is
what you have to learn.
It's all about how do I engagethem?
What's going to be relevant tothem?
And then how do I get them to aplace like what you had said,
you're guiding them on ajourney.
How do I get them to a place tosay, oh, this is the action I
want to take?
And I see why I want to take it,because it's going to benefit me
(18:36):
in X, Y, and Z.
And so that's the same thing incopywriting is like, how do you
get people to take that action?
And then the fun part I like tosprinkle in is how do you get
your personality in there?
So it doesn't just feel likeit's just another email from an
email template, which a lot ofmy clients come to me with is
I'm trying using these emailtemplates, they're not working.
(18:59):
It's because their their voiceisn't in it.
And also I, you know, I hear alot of I'm using AI, I'm using
Chat GPT, I'm having it write myemails and it's not working.
It's it's the same thing.
It's because it's very, it'sit's very flat.
It's not hooking the people inthat they that my clients are
(19:20):
trying to attract to them.
And so when you add yourpersonality into your copy, that
adds another layer of, okay, Iunderstand why I want to take
this action.
And I'm also getting to know youin the process, which is that
emotional connection.
People are going to more likelydo things because of that
(19:41):
emotional connection.
So that's what I call my mysticky cat topics of how to
infuse your personality intoyour copy.
And it doesn't have to benecessarily look one way or
another.
I think that's another big Imean, I think that's the
biggest.
Um it's the most common mistakeI see, and I I've fallen into
it, is like, oh, I have to writea certain way.
(20:03):
I have to sound a certain way.
Um, and then they're not gettingthat engagement from their
emails because they're when youstart writing from your
authentic writing voice, thenpeople notice and they'll
they'll start to engage.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
Yeah.
I uh completely get that.
I'll have people reply to myemails and just say, I love your
emails.
And like they're notspecifically taking any action.
It just feels like me.
It feels like you're talking tome.
But um, so I there were a couplepieces that I really wanted to
(20:39):
hang on to.
So, what are some strategies wecan take to help people maybe
see themselves in that story sothey realize that they want to
take action on the thing thatyou're writing about?
SPEAKER_01 (20:55):
Hmm.
Okay, so generally, this is thisis one of the things that it's
one of the tips that I like toshare with like when clients
come to me and they're like, Iwrote this testimonial, this
transformational email.
It was about their client'stransformation in their program.
(21:17):
And they're they're so excitedabout it because they're like,
look at look at this amazingtransformation that happened
with the client.
And they're like, no one, no oneclick, no one clicked on on like
it was a quick two-minute, youknow, video testimonial.
Um, and that's that's where thethe the copywriting piece comes
in.
But what one like one big tipyou can do with your CTA, the
(21:41):
call to action, is give, like,give a reason.
Give a reason for them to takethe action.
Like, um, for the example of ofthe email with the testimonial,
like, click here to listen tothe the two-minute testimonial
because, and then give thereason why they should listen to
it.
Like, um, you can find find findyour own story in it or
(22:03):
whatever, whatever it is,because people are way more
likely to take the action whenyou give them a reason.
They did this whole uh there wasa whole study done on this where
um there are people standing inline to make copies at a Xerox
machine.
So yes, I know this is a littleout.
SPEAKER_00 (22:25):
Um they still exist.
They still exist.
SPEAKER_01 (22:30):
And it it kind of the study is fascinating, but uh
basically people are standing inline to make copies.
And if you just if you try andcut in line and just say, can I
cut in line?
I said I don't remember what thepercentage was, but it was like
90 to 100% said the person saidno, you can't you can't cut me.
But if you give a reason,suddenly um people, it was like
(22:55):
90 to 100% said yes, like can Icut you because I'm running
late?
Or they even did one where theysaid the reason was can I cut
you because I want to cut you?
People would say yes to thattoo.
They would say yes, so even ifthe reason was just exactly what
(23:18):
the action was, I would thoughtthat's what I'm saying.
I would probably say no still.
And I'm like, I can't.
No, I not but I I think there'sthere's something to be said
about g just giving when yougive someone a reason, then
they're more likely to to takethat action.
It's just again about helpingthem process why to take the
(23:40):
action to help them understandlike what the what the benefit
would be for them.
SPEAKER_00 (23:47):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So, okay, let's go from thebeginning.
We have a hook.
We're telling everyday storiesthat lead back to our
businesses, our offers, so theycan kind of see like how this
works in a way that relates tothem.
(24:09):
Um, we want to keep peoplereading.
I always think of um the monsterat the end of this book.
You have a three-year-old.
So you probably know the Groverstory.
Grover.
Like you keep on reading, you'relike, what's the end of the
book?
But it's like there's a constantdesire to flip that page to see
(24:30):
what's gonna happen next.
So you can kind of do that inyour storytelling to keep people
reading to that next paragraph.
Ruth ruthlessly edit.
So it'll be like an Erm ErnestHemingway situation where he
said something like, uh, writedrunk, edit sober.
You write a messy front firstdraft, and then you edit
(24:53):
ruthlessly, and then you want toend with a call to action that
gives them a reason to actuallytake action.
Okay, excellent.
Um, let me see.
Am I missing anything on thisone?
SPEAKER_01 (25:10):
I also didn't um I I feel like also another piece of
that when you're talking aboutlike the um the monster at the
end of the book, like gettingthem to keep reading.
And this is something that's umI teach is using the bank
personality codes.
Uh, have you are you familiarwith that?
Okay.
So the bank personality codes isa communication system um all
(25:34):
around how buyers make theirdecisions based on their values.
And I really like it becauseit's very, it's just like
human-centered, person first,and it's values-driven, which I
which I love.
And so it I I teach on how howdo you also speak to your ideal
(25:55):
client's bank personality codebecause it's it's really more
values driven.
And so they're going to want tokeep they're gonna want to keep
reading to the next page in thenext page because they're um
you're speak you're speakingtheir code, basically.
SPEAKER_00 (26:11):
Oh, that's interesting.
I've never heard of that.
You better believe I'm gonnaGoogle it immediately after this
call.
SPEAKER_01 (26:17):
Yeah, yeah, Google it, um, bank personality code.
I used to, so the I was trainedby uh a certified bank trainer
in her program around it, andthen I realized like, oh my
gosh, I can use this for myclients for copywriting.
And so I've kind of integratedit in.
And um, one of the things you dois you crack some the first
(26:38):
thing you do is crack your owncode and then you crack someone
else's code.
And I also like it because it'seasy, it's fast, it's like 90
seconds, it's very easy forcards.
And uh I used to tell my husbandwhen I was in the training
program, I'm I'm collectingpeople's bank codes.
And he said, That sounds veryillegal.
SPEAKER_00 (26:59):
It does.
Like, what are you doing?
SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
And I said, Oh, okay, I think I need to say bank
personality codes, putpersonality, because if it's
just bank codes, then yes, I cansee that.
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
Yeah, it sounds like you're stealing pen numbers.
SPEAKER_01 (27:13):
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
So you crack your your yourclient code, and that way you
can basically um integrate thatinto your into the storytelling
and copywriting.
SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
Okay.
That is really cool.
I'm gonna check that out.
I have one more question andthen I'll prompt you if there's
anything we missed.
But I am curious what kind ofemail marketing this works best
in.
Because when I read storytellingand email, I my mind
automatically went to sequences.
(27:47):
I was thinking of it as like achapter of a book, would be each
email in the sequence.
That's how my mind worked forit.
But would this also work withone-to-one emails or um or like
your everyday nurture?
Well, not everyday, but yourweekly nurture emails, for
example.
SPEAKER_01 (28:06):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I feel like storytelling can goin any uh of the emails.
So it could be for emailsequences specifically.
Like uh the three I like tofocus on are the welcome nurture
email sequence.
When someone first joins youremail community, they go through
a welcome nurture sequence, andthat's where they're getting to
(28:27):
know a bit of who you are, whatyou stand for, and what's your
magic sauce.
And then um, the other twosequences I like to focus on um
mostly for coaches, uh, personalbrands who have program, like
they launch programs, services,or packages.
And there's a pre-launch nurturesequence, and that's where
(28:48):
you're guiding someone throughlike understanding what their
more awareness around what theirproblem is.
And that primes them to go intoa sales sequence, which is then
they're gonna be ready to hearthe sales sequence.
I want to say gone through thepre-launch.
Storytelling can go through anyof those sequences, and it um I
(29:08):
also like to have like timelyemail newsletter, kind of like
what you're saying.
Like you write a weekly emailnewsletter.
unknown (29:15):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (29:16):
Stories definitely go into there.
And I I like to mix both thesequences and email newsletters
because then people also feellike they're getting like real
time, real time you, like whatis on your heart to share right
now, because I think that'sreally important as well.
Like, so whatever you have toshare in your heart is something
people need to hear.
(29:36):
So um add on that that layer aswell.
Uh I I a lot of my clients taketheir their email sequences and
their email newsletters, andthey they I I am a high
proponent for repurposing, I'msure for you as well.
Like in marketing.
Love repurposing.
We purpose that.
(29:57):
So in the emails basicallyinspire them, like, oh, I can
use this basically as a scriptfor my YouTube video that I I
can use.
And then they go, oh, this couldthis is actually a seed for a
blog.
I can expand on this.
And and it again, I as as amarketer, as you know, like it
(30:17):
depends on everyone has adifferent marketing plan.
And so for some, it's like, oh,this could be a YouTube, this
can be my next YouTube video, orthis can be my um the seed for
my next blog post, or this canuh be a series in my podcast.
Um, and so you basically cantake these stories and you can
just repurpose, dice it up.
(30:39):
Like say, like if you cook a bigmeal, you have leftovers, you
can repurposing is like takingthose leftovers, dice it up, put
something new in, and then youcan like it almost like grows
over over the week.
SPEAKER_00 (30:54):
Yeah, that's really smart.
Um, there was something thatcame up in my mind, and I
forgot.
I had a question that came up.
Okay, that happens.
So, okay.
Last thing you said was or onyour form, you had that you have
(31:15):
a copy clarity quiz.
Can you tell me about that?
SPEAKER_01 (31:18):
Oh, yes, actually, and then I might also talk about
my email storytelling guide too.
Is that okay?
SPEAKER_00 (31:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, yeah.
Okay, put that on there.
SPEAKER_01 (31:29):
Uh so kind of like we well, kind of like what we
talked about with the the hook,the storytelling, then segue
into your talking about yourmarketing content and then the
DTA.
I have a an email storytellingguide that's free.
And it has in there like 25story prompts.
(31:53):
It has seven types of hook.
Let's see, I'm trying toremember.
Um, it has um also 15 or 20segues that you can just plug
and play.
So it's really like a referenceguide.
Um, and it's like something thatyou'll actually use and not just
look at it and and forget aboutit.
SPEAKER_00 (32:12):
Yeah, I mean download it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:14):
Yeah, you can grab that.
Um, and that I mean, I stillreferen I also reference that
for myself sometimes.
SPEAKER_00 (32:20):
I do the same thing.
I reference my resourcesconstantly.
Yeah, it's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (32:25):
So see, that's how you know it's like this is a
good resource because sometimesmy brain is just not working.
I'm like, I need to go to my uhright, exactly.
Okay, I love that.
So that's my email storytellingguide.
It's called Three Simple Stepsto Irresistibly Entertaining
Emails That Sell.
And then I do have a newfreebie.
(32:48):
It is the copy clarity compassquiz.
And that one is basically takingmy seven-step stories framework
that I use in my program.
And I've found this is these areall the pieces.
Um I'm I'm using a circle as awheel because the quiz is
(33:09):
basically it's not your, it'snot your standard quiz where you
it's not like multiple choice.
It is, it is a wheel, and youget ended getting a visual of
your strengths and places youwant to work on next.
And so it just gives you a lotof clarity around what's going
on with copywriting in youremails because a lot of times
(33:30):
clients come to me thinking it'sjust the copy.
But what we uncover is a lotmore than that.
And so this wheel will help youuncover and pinpoint exactly
what it is that might that isworking and is not working.
SPEAKER_00 (33:46):
I remember what I was going to ask or what came to
my mind.
Okay.
Okay.
Yep.
So I love that you have thosetwo sequences where the first
sequence, the more nurturingsequence, helps people uncover
what problem they're goingthrough because a lot of times
people are just symptom awarewhen they come to you.
They're like, this isn'tworking.
(34:08):
My sales are down.
And they need to understand,they need to go through a
process to understand what theproblem is.
And then you move them into whatis the solution?
I love that you have thosesequences in that order.
I do the same thing in adifferent way in offers.
Like what kind of offer makessense when people are only
(34:30):
symptom aware?
How do you move them to thatnext, like close that loop?
And then you're opening a newloop.
So what's the solution?
So you have to find that offer.
So I love that.
It really ties together well.
And I think it's something thata lot of people don't think
about when you're not in likethe marketing sales world and
(34:51):
you're more of a consultant or acoach where you're like, I'm
good at this thing.
They don't think about thepsychology of where people are
at each phase of that salesprocess.
So love that.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (35:04):
Jared.
And I love how you say it's likeit's like closing the loop
before you move on to the nextone.
SPEAKER_00 (35:08):
Yeah, which is another writing term.
Close the loop.
SPEAKER_01 (35:12):
Yes, I love, I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Their expertise isn'tnecessarily that.
And I mean for me, I come fromvery much like a teaching lens
because I was a teacher for 15years and I come from the
education world.
And so to me, like marketing andselling is like, oh, teachers
(35:33):
are really good marketers andsellers because every day
they're in there.
SPEAKER_00 (35:38):
Yeah, you have to convince the students to do the
thing and tell explain why it'simportant and why they would
want it.
SPEAKER_01 (35:44):
Exactly.
Yeah.
And it's almost like, and that Ifeel like that's another big
piece of it, is that um a lot ofa lot of uh the coaches who and
entrepreneurs who come to me arein that like convincing, they're
in that convincing um, what doyou call it?
Uh stage stage.
(36:05):
So they feel like they're kindthey they gets there's they're
just they're tired becausethey're like, I'm constantly
trying to convince people and noone's like no one's doing
anything.
And I I like to say like, and itgoes back to what you said about
like the symptoms.
It's like, okay, you're you'reapproaching your writing like a
lawyer and you're on the standsand you're trying so hard to
(36:27):
convince the judge and the juryof whatever it is.
It's tiring because like nothingis happening.
Versus like you're you're likeright like you're a doctor, like
you're you know what thesymptoms are.
You you can see that in yourclients, and now you're you're
creating it like a treatmentplan for them.
(36:48):
That's that's what you'rewaiting for.
SPEAKER_00 (36:50):
That's the perfect way to put it.
Because they are not yourexpert, they just know what
they're feeling.
SPEAKER_01 (36:57):
Yeah, yeah.
So it just it then it doesn'tfeel like this, like this energy
of like you gotta work with me,come and work with me.
It's this is what you need todo.
It's more like, hey, I seewhat's going on, and I'm gonna
show I'm gonna show you likewhat what's the root causes, and
then here's this is thesolution.
This is what I can offer you.
(37:18):
And just with the shift in thatenergy, they they start to get
more engagement.
SPEAKER_00 (37:23):
Yeah, and a lot of times, like if they are doing so
much convincing, then they areprobably attracting at the very
top of the level of the funnel.
So they are attracting peoplewho are only symptom aware
instead of like hand raisersthat are like, okay, this is my
(37:43):
problem.
I understand it.
And it really you have to beattracting at all of those
levels to keep your pipelinefull.
SPEAKER_01 (37:52):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, the different levels.
SPEAKER_00 (37:55):
Yes.
Okay, this was awesome.
I had so much fun.
Is there anything else that youwant the audience to know before
we wrap up?
SPEAKER_01 (38:06):
Um I would say that like talking about all these
things for me is like it'sreally fun.
And I really obviously very muchenjoy talking about it.
But it can feel veryoverwhelming for people to
suddenly be like, gosh, I haveto use stories.
I I have to like, oh my gosh, Ihave to like it's it's like too
(38:26):
much.
And um I just I would like tosay like there are no like
have-to's or shoulds.
Like anytime there's a should,just reflect on why you think
it's a should.
Um, and then either reframe itor like, no, you don't need to
do it.
Um, so just really be aware ofthat because I know as
(38:47):
entrepreneurs, we can get intothis cycle, the hamster wheel
cycle, and we're just like gonnaadd on more and more and more
until you're just like exhaustedand on the floor.
And so this is something that II I have been also on my own
journey on is like, how do wesimplify?
So if you're hearing all thisand you're feeling overwhelmed,
(39:10):
like, oh my gosh, this is alltoo much, like just simplify and
just take the one, just take theone step, take the one nugget
that you got from here and justgo with that.
And then you can always go andbuild from there, but first just
like start with that one step.
SPEAKER_00 (39:26):
Yeah, that I like that.
That's really helpful because itcan be overwhelming when you're
hearing all this advice.
SPEAKER_01 (39:33):
Like that seems over my head, especially I feel like
storytelling can feel sonebulous to someone who doesn't
understand it, who isn'timmersed in it when it's yeah,
yeah, it doesn't have to be askill, it's definitely a skill
to learn, and that's the thewhole cake thing, it's like
(39:57):
you're seeing yourself as aprofessional baker in your
business, and we gotta juststart with basics, start with
the basics, and at some pointyou're gonna get to that point
where okay, you got the you gotthe whole cake, you have all the
the layers in there.
SPEAKER_00 (40:12):
Yes, yes.
Um, and before like the closingthought I just want people to
take away is I have a client whois a VC, and they have told me a
thousand times in justconversation that the thing that
(40:33):
separates startups that thriveand ones that just fall apart is
storytelling.
And it's something that honestlysurprised me.
He was like the stories thatthey tell and bringing people
like investors, users of theirproducts along on their journey
(40:58):
and making them care is thething that turns them into
unicorns.
So this skill set even worksfrom like these people who are
they spend their money investingin in other companies.
They even see the value ofstorytelling in business, which
(41:19):
I found super interesting.
I was like, I'm gonna write thatdown.
I'm gonna tell everybody yousaid that.
SPEAKER_01 (41:25):
That's so good.
I love that.
I I a hundred percent agree thatyeah, storytelling has just so
many different purposes besideswhat we had we had talked about.
Like there's so many layers toit.
That's like the first thingsthat we've done as humans is
storytelling.
SPEAKER_00 (41:45):
Yeah, that's true.
Um, how can people work with youand find you online?
SPEAKER_01 (41:52):
Sure, yeah.
They can find me on my website,which is deskplantcreatives.com.
That is my uh my business name.
Uh, and then from there you canit can go look around.
Uh, I have my free emailstorytelling guide on there too.
And one of the best ways rightnow uh to work with me is
(42:16):
through my copy coachingprogram, Inbox to Impact.
And that's where I'm really uhteaching and coaching and cut
and consulting like all wrappedin into one.
Um, so that you can really writeemails that are open worthy,
that get that engagement, thatget more clicks.
Um and it really is it's a skilland a strategy that that you can
(42:40):
learn along the way.
Uh so yeah, the my program isalso on my website, Discipline
Creative Ask Com.
Uh I'm most active in my ownemail community.
Uh so if you download one of myuh free guides, you'll also join
my email community.
(43:00):
And then also on LinkedIn, thatis my pseudoactive in the
messages there.
Uh you can always DM me there inLinkedIn.
Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn.
My name is Joanne Homestead.
And then you can also look upJoanne Humpstead copywriter, but
(43:22):
I am pretty sure I'm still theonly Joanne Homestead on
LinkedIn.
That's convenient.
SPEAKER_00 (43:28):
I can have to use my middle name for everything.
I have the most generic name.
You love all things tinymarketing.
Head down to the show notes pageand sign up for the wait list to
join the Tiny Marketing Club,where you get to work one-on-one
with me with trainings,feedback, and pop-up coaching
(43:50):
that will help you scale yourmarketing as a B2B service
business.
So I'll see you over in theclub.
This is Sarah Blah Block, a podcast that helps B2B
service businesses do more withless.
Learn lean, actionable, organicmarketing strategies you can
implement today.
No fluff, just powerful growthtactics that work.
Ready to scale smarter?
SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
Hit that subscribe button and start growing your
business with tiny marketing.
SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
Hey Joanne.
Can you introduce yourself tothe audience?
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
Hey, yes, Sarah.
So I am Joanne Homestead of DeskPlant Creatives.
I am an email copywriter, copycoach, and story whisperer.
And so I really empower femaleentrepreneurs and coaches in
wellness, well-being, andmindset to be able to write
(02:23):
open-worthy email that get moreengagement, more clicks, and
more client coming through intheir emails, all through their
100% authentic writing voice.
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
That is amazing.
And I love the angle that we'regoing with this because like I
love email marketing.
It's my favorite way because Ican connect one-on-one with my
audience.
So it's my favorite thing to do.
However, oh I hear the I hearthe three-year-old.
There's just got home.
(02:56):
So you weren't lying.
You do see just literally gothome from preschools.
Oh, yes.
Oh, so me too.
Yeah, nice.
Okay.
So today we're talking about thestorytelling element of it.
So um I want to get intointroduce introducing that to
(03:20):
the audience.
So, like, what is the firstemail that you want to send to
kind of set the stage that thisisn't an ordinary mom?
Cool mom.
No, this isn't a normal emailcampaign.
You're being taken on a journey,you're hearing a story.
SPEAKER_01 (03:38):
Oh, yes.
Um, I think there's still liketwo parts to that I'd like to
talk about.
One is like the storytellingpiece of it.
And then the other piece of kindof what you're talking about is
um, how do we start setting thetone from that first email and
training your email readers towant to open your email and read
(03:59):
through it and you know, readfirst line to the second line to
the third, all the way to thebottom.
And so that piece is kind oflike what I talk about is the
personality-infused copy pieceof it.
So, what as an email copywriter,I like to think of it in three,
like three layers.
The first top layer, like, okay,I'm all into like the Great
(04:22):
British Baking Show.
SPEAKER_00 (04:23):
So I can't not watch baking shows in the winter.
There's just something so cozyabout them.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
I have been, I so you know, winter is coming here,
and so um the Great BritishBaking Show is number one on the
list because my boys likewatching it too, and it's really
fun and it's cozy.
So this is gonna be a cakeanalogy.
SPEAKER_00 (04:44):
Okay, let's go.
SPEAKER_01 (04:46):
The first layer is the the storytelling.
The second layer is thecopywriting, and that's where
it's the personality infusedcopy.
And then the third layer is theemail strategy.
So let's just start with thelet's let's start with the first
layer with the storytellingpiece of it.
Um, and then we can talk alittle bit about the cop the
(05:08):
personality, personality infusedcopy.
So the storytelling, what I liketo compare it to in your emails,
is it's like taking yourmarketing, your your expertise,
your you're writing about umyour expertise as an
(05:28):
entrepreneur coach.
And that's kind of like the 2D.
It's like you open a book andit's 2D.
And then the storytelling isadding like a 3D immersive
element to it.
And that's the piece of like theit's like an open-worthy email.
People want to open it, theyfeel immersed in it.
(05:49):
It's like dropping someone intolike a movie trailer, you know.
So hot-up books these days are,I don't know if you've seen them
at the library, but they'revery, they're so intricate.
They used to be, you know, Ithink when I was a kid, you'd
you'd open it and one littlelike a bunny pops up.
SPEAKER_00 (06:06):
Yeah.
And they had like one littlefold that would go back.
SPEAKER_01 (06:10):
Yeah, you just get the one fold.
And um, when my older son wastwo years old and we went to the
library and he found the pop-upbook section.
I audibly gasped when I openedthe pop-up books now because an
entire you open the page and anentire world pops out.
It's super intricate.
(06:30):
And it even has a little pageson that page where you can open
it and then as a mini immersivepop-up, it's it really is like
you're entering into the world.
And so storytelling to me islike that.
It's like turning your 2Dmarketing into like 3D
immersive, you're connectingemotionally with them and
(06:50):
they're getting to know youthrough your stories as well.
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
Okay, I have questions.
So, one, I don't know if youknow this about me, but I'm also
a fiction writer.
And when I think of storytellingand immersion, I think show,
don't tell.
Make them feel like they'rethere, make them feel like they
are feeling the pain that you'refeeling.
(07:16):
Now, is that what you be mean bystorytelling?
Because there's so manyinterpretations of it.
SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
Okay, yes, that's such a good question.
I love how you're also, I thinkI do remember saying you're a
fiction writer because I'mgetting your emails and I love
them.
So thanks.
I think I remember seeing thatin there.
So, yes, great question.
What I like to think about isthere are the storytelling
techniques, which is kind ofwhat you're talking about, which
(07:42):
is the show don't tell.
I'm also a former teacher of 15years, and I taught um literacy,
and I was also a literacyspecialist and coach.
And so one of my biggestpassions was writing and
teaching my students how towrite in a way that's
compelling, and it's not thehere's your five paragraphs
(08:03):
essay.
SPEAKER_00 (08:04):
Start with your introduction, you gotta have
three So that's what my kids aredoing right now, and they're
always showing it to me.
And they're like, How would youcompare this to the kind of
writing you do?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
And I just say, like, you throw that all out
that you learned from from fromschool.
Um, it says really about eveneven when teaching students how
to write, it's thosestorytelling techniques.
One is like show, don't tell,you know, another is how do you
hook, how do you hook the readerin from the first down?
SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
That's huge.
SPEAKER_01 (08:39):
Yeah, yeah.
That's a that's a big one.
And that one's like, I feel likea lot of people get stuck on
that one, which I have a lot oftechniques around like how to
not end up in paralysis whenyou're writing.
There's a lot of differenttechniques.
So the storytelling that I liketo talk about, um, there's like
seven different types of storiesI like to um teach to my members
(09:00):
in my program.
Uh, one of the my favoritesbeing like the everyday story.
And so you're taking storiesjust from your everyday life,
which a lot of people think, oh,it's boring, no one wants to
hear it.
You know, I'm I'm going outgrocery shopping with my kids or
anything like that.
SPEAKER_00 (09:18):
And I don't know why, but that is also the first
thing that popped into my mindgrocery shopping.
SPEAKER_01 (09:23):
Yes, grocery shopping, go to go get coffee.
Like those everyday stories areit's just like unlimited
storytelling content for yourbusiness.
Um, and I think the great thingabout those stories is that
they're relatable.
Like you immediately thought oflike, yes, grocery shopping,
which grocery shopping with kidsis never boring.
So maybe that's not the success.
SPEAKER_00 (09:45):
No, but it is something you probably end up
doing like every day becauseyou're like, I forgot that
thing.
SPEAKER_01 (09:51):
Yes, every time we're like, ah, we have to go
back to the store.
(10:55):
And so these everyday storiesyou can tell in your emails in a
way that's compelling throughstorytelling techniques like
show don't tell, how to hook thereader in, um, how to write,
like how to get that emotionalconnection in your writing.
And so then you can basicallytake those stories and connect
(11:18):
it to what you do in your yourbusiness, you know, what what
your expertise is.
So, like, for example, um uh anacme specialist can connect it
to how does this how does herstory relate to how does she
loves roller skating?
I'm sorry, I'm thinking of apast client here.
SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
She loved roller skating.
That was very specific.
It was very specific.
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
She wrote a story about roller skating, and then
it segues into talking about umhow this relates to her client
(12:46):
and their hormones and how thatrelates to to acne.
And so as a teacher, I believelike any story can be connected
to any any kind of lesson youlike what's the takeaway you
want your readers to come awaywith.
Um, and so yeah, everydaystories are are my favorite out
of the seven.
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
Yeah.
And that just reminded me alsowhen you're writing, you want
people to be compelled to turnthe page.
So do you have like there'scliffhangers, there's oh, like
leaving someone on on a pointwhere they need to know more.
(13:26):
So how would you use that inemail?
SPEAKER_01 (13:29):
Oh, yes.
Okay, such a great question.
So I okay, so all good storieshave like the beginning, you
have the art, and then you havelike a satisfying, you gotta
have a satisfying ending, right?
Yeah, and I feel like each emailcan it can have that.
And then also want you to leadon to, oh, there's more, like
(13:53):
there's more.
And then, oh, there's more, oh,there's more.
Like it's continually likepeeling back the layers.
So definitely one is for eachemail, I don't I don't
necessarily like to hook someonein and I teach this to my
clients, and then like leavethem hanging, where it's like
this, it's not satisfyingbecause you feel like, oh, I I
(14:16):
need to put it in the next emailto keep them reading.
Like you want them to have thatlike satisfying, oh, okay, you
know, at the end of the email.
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
And you know, that that I need to read more could
be from paragraph to paragraphtoo.
Like, how do you keep themengaged?
SPEAKER_01 (14:35):
Right.
Yeah.
And that's that's the thing withlike starting with the first
line, how do you get them toread the second line?
How do you get them to read thethird line?
I would say that the most commonmistake I see with writing in
emails is that once people startwith like an introductory
paragraph, that they can just umthey can just delete that whole
paragraph because they're goingback to what they had learned
(14:58):
from writing in in school is Ineed to have like a whole
introductory paragraph.
It's gonna, I gotta set, I gottaset up the whole scene.
But instead of that, and that'swhere the hook comes in, is like
usually you can take that firstwhole introductory paragraph and
you can literally just likethrow it away.
And that's okay.
I know a lot of people feel likeI'd spent I spent that time to
(15:21):
to write.
I put that energy and mentaleffort into it.
You know, people might have likean emotional connection to that
paragraph.
Um, but I like to say that'spart of the writing process.
So it's okay to have that partin there because it's it's just
like a part of when you'rewriting, how you can get into
the flow.
And then when you go back,that's when you go, okay, I can
(15:41):
this usually this first wholeparagraph I can just throw out.
It was a great way for me to getinto the writing, but it just it
really isn't gonna hook andcapture someone's attention for
the rest of the email.
So I would say that's definitelyone of the biggest mistakes.
And then definitely afterwriting that first messy draft,
because there's there's alwaysgonna be the first messy draft,
(16:03):
and that's okay.
When you go back, that's when umyou can use uh I like to call it
like the ruthless pruner.
Basically, you're gonna gothrough and you're gonna see um
what you can cut out.
And when you do that, you'rejust asking yourself, so what?
Like you're putting yourselfinto the shoes of your readers,
(16:28):
and they're continually gonna beasking themselves, okay, so
what?
Like, what does this have to dowith with me?
Not like they're being selfish,but in a way of they're really
wanting to be there tounderstand what what your
expertise is and how does thatrelate back to them.
So when you're going back andediting and revising your email,
always be reading from that lensand seeing, okay, like why, like
(16:54):
every word and sentence has apurpose.
Like, why, why is this here?
What's the purpose?
And if there is no purpose, thenyou could probably it could
probably go or you can uh moveit to a different part of the
the email.
SPEAKER_00 (17:08):
Okay, so that makes sense.
I think I understand the storystructure.
Um, let's talk about that secondpiece, setting the stage.
So, from that first email, howdo we get our readers to
understand like this is theexperience you're gonna get from
me?
SPEAKER_01 (17:28):
Yeah.
So that is like the personallyinfused copy, the middle layer
of that wonderfully, deliciouslychocolate cake, whatever cake
you want there.
Um, and that's where you havethat layer of the storytelling.
And then the copywriting pieceis I'd like to explain is um how
(17:50):
do you orchestrate your words sothat it compel someone to take
action?
Um, and it's not about beingpushy, it's not about
manipulative marketing.
It's really just about um how doyou get someone to own their
action, the action that you wantthem to take?
And it's the same thing inteaching for my students.
(18:12):
I'm not forcing them to like,you have to learn this, this is
what you have to learn.
It's all about how do I engagethem?
What's going to be relevant tothem?
And then how do I get them to aplace like what you had said,
you're guiding them on ajourney.
How do I get them to a place tosay, oh, this is the action I
want to take?
And I see why I want to take it,because it's going to benefit me
(18:36):
in X, Y, and Z.
And so that's the same thing incopywriting is like, how do you
get people to take that action?
And then the fun part I like tosprinkle in is how do you get
your personality in there?
So it doesn't just feel likeit's just another email from an
email template, which a lot ofmy clients come to me with is
I'm trying using these emailtemplates, they're not working.
(18:59):
It's because their their voiceisn't in it.
And also I, you know, I hear alot of I'm using AI, I'm using
Chat GPT, I'm having it write myemails and it's not working.
It's it's the same thing.
It's because it's very, it'sit's very flat.
It's not hooking the people inthat they that my clients are
(19:20):
trying to attract to them.
And so when you add yourpersonality into your copy, that
adds another layer of, okay, Iunderstand why I want to take
this action.
And I'm also getting to know youin the process, which is that
emotional connection.
People are going to more likelydo things because of that
(19:41):
emotional connection.
So that's what I call my mysticky cat topics of how to
infuse your personality intoyour copy.
And it doesn't have to benecessarily look one way or
another.
I think that's another big Imean, I think that's the
biggest.
Um it's the most common mistakeI see, and I I've fallen into
it, is like, oh, I have to writea certain way.
(20:03):
I have to sound a certain way.
Um, and then they're not gettingthat engagement from their
emails because they're when youstart writing from your
authentic writing voice, thenpeople notice and they'll
they'll start to engage.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
Yeah.
I uh completely get that.
I'll have people reply to myemails and just say, I love your
emails.
And like they're notspecifically taking any action.
It just feels like me.
It feels like you're talking tome.
But um, so I there were a couplepieces that I really wanted to
(20:39):
hang on to.
So, what are some strategies wecan take to help people maybe
see themselves in that story sothey realize that they want to
take action on the thing thatyou're writing about?
SPEAKER_01 (20:55):
Hmm.
Okay, so generally, this is thisis one of the things that it's
one of the tips that I like toshare with like when clients
come to me and they're like, Iwrote this testimonial, this
transformational email.
It was about their client'stransformation in their program.
(21:17):
And they're they're so excitedabout it because they're like,
look at look at this amazingtransformation that happened
with the client.
And they're like, no one, no oneclick, no one clicked on on like
it was a quick two-minute, youknow, video testimonial.
Um, and that's that's where thethe the copywriting piece comes
in.
But what one like one big tipyou can do with your CTA, the
(21:41):
call to action, is give, like,give a reason.
Give a reason for them to takethe action.
Like, um, for the example of ofthe email with the testimonial,
like, click here to listen tothe the two-minute testimonial
because, and then give thereason why they should listen to
it.
Like, um, you can find find findyour own story in it or
(22:03):
whatever, whatever it is,because people are way more
likely to take the action whenyou give them a reason.
They did this whole uh there wasa whole study done on this where
um there are people standing inline to make copies at a Xerox
machine.
So yes, I know this is a littleout.
SPEAKER_00 (22:25):
Um they still exist.
They still exist.
SPEAKER_01 (22:30):
And it it kind of the study is fascinating, but uh
basically people are standing inline to make copies.
And if you just if you try andcut in line and just say, can I
cut in line?
I said I don't remember what thepercentage was, but it was like
90 to 100% said the person saidno, you can't you can't cut me.
But if you give a reason,suddenly um people, it was like
(22:55):
90 to 100% said yes, like can Icut you because I'm running
late?
Or they even did one where theysaid the reason was can I cut
you because I want to cut you?
People would say yes to thattoo.
They would say yes, so even ifthe reason was just exactly what
(23:18):
the action was, I would thoughtthat's what I'm saying.
I would probably say no still.
And I'm like, I can't.
No, I not but I I think there'sthere's something to be said
about g just giving when yougive someone a reason, then
they're more likely to to takethat action.
It's just again about helpingthem process why to take the
(23:40):
action to help them understandlike what the what the benefit
would be for them.
SPEAKER_00 (23:47):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So, okay, let's go from thebeginning.
We have a hook.
We're telling everyday storiesthat lead back to our
businesses, our offers, so theycan kind of see like how this
works in a way that relates tothem.
(24:09):
Um, we want to keep peoplereading.
I always think of um the monsterat the end of this book.
You have a three-year-old.
So you probably know the Groverstory.
Grover.
Like you keep on reading, you'relike, what's the end of the
book?
But it's like there's a constantdesire to flip that page to see
(24:30):
what's gonna happen next.
So you can kind of do that inyour storytelling to keep people
reading to that next paragraph.
Ruth ruthlessly edit.
So it'll be like an Erm ErnestHemingway situation where he
said something like, uh, writedrunk, edit sober.
You write a messy front firstdraft, and then you edit
(24:53):
ruthlessly, and then you want toend with a call to action that
gives them a reason to actuallytake action.
Okay, excellent.
Um, let me see.
Am I missing anything on thisone?
SPEAKER_01 (25:10):
I also didn't um I I feel like also another piece of
that when you're talking aboutlike the um the monster at the
end of the book, like gettingthem to keep reading.
And this is something that's umI teach is using the bank
personality codes.
Uh, have you are you familiarwith that?
Okay.
So the bank personality codes isa communication system um all
(25:34):
around how buyers make theirdecisions based on their values.
And I really like it becauseit's very, it's just like
human-centered, person first,and it's values-driven, which I
which I love.
And so it I I teach on how howdo you also speak to your ideal
(25:55):
client's bank personality codebecause it's it's really more
values driven.
And so they're going to want tokeep they're gonna want to keep
reading to the next page in thenext page because they're um
you're speak you're speakingtheir code, basically.
SPEAKER_00 (26:11):
Oh, that's interesting.
I've never heard of that.
You better believe I'm gonnaGoogle it immediately after this
call.
SPEAKER_01 (26:17):
Yeah, yeah, Google it, um, bank personality code.
I used to, so the I was trainedby uh a certified bank trainer
in her program around it, andthen I realized like, oh my
gosh, I can use this for myclients for copywriting.
And so I've kind of integratedit in.
And um, one of the things you dois you crack some the first
(26:38):
thing you do is crack your owncode and then you crack someone
else's code.
And I also like it because it'seasy, it's fast, it's like 90
seconds, it's very easy forcards.
And uh I used to tell my husbandwhen I was in the training
program, I'm I'm collectingpeople's bank codes.
And he said, That sounds veryillegal.
SPEAKER_00 (26:59):
It does.
Like, what are you doing?
SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
And I said, Oh, okay, I think I need to say bank
personality codes, putpersonality, because if it's
just bank codes, then yes, I cansee that.
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
Yeah, it sounds like you're stealing pen numbers.
SPEAKER_01 (27:13):
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
So you crack your your yourclient code, and that way you
can basically um integrate thatinto your into the storytelling
and copywriting.
SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
Okay.
That is really cool.
I'm gonna check that out.
I have one more question andthen I'll prompt you if there's
anything we missed.
But I am curious what kind ofemail marketing this works best
in.
Because when I read storytellingand email, I my mind
automatically went to sequences.
(27:47):
I was thinking of it as like achapter of a book, would be each
email in the sequence.
That's how my mind worked forit.
But would this also work withone-to-one emails or um or like
your everyday nurture?
Well, not everyday, but yourweekly nurture emails, for
example.
SPEAKER_01 (28:06):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I feel like storytelling can goin any uh of the emails.
So it could be for emailsequences specifically.
Like uh the three I like tofocus on are the welcome nurture
email sequence.
When someone first joins youremail community, they go through
a welcome nurture sequence, andthat's where they're getting to
(28:27):
know a bit of who you are, whatyou stand for, and what's your
magic sauce.
And then um, the other twosequences I like to focus on um
mostly for coaches, uh, personalbrands who have program, like
they launch programs, services,or packages.
And there's a pre-launch nurturesequence, and that's where
(28:48):
you're guiding someone throughlike understanding what their
more awareness around what theirproblem is.
And that primes them to go intoa sales sequence, which is then
they're gonna be ready to hearthe sales sequence.
I want to say gone through thepre-launch.
Storytelling can go through anyof those sequences, and it um I
(29:08):
also like to have like timelyemail newsletter, kind of like
what you're saying.
Like you write a weekly emailnewsletter.
unknown (29:15):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (29:16):
Stories definitely go into there.
And I I like to mix both thesequences and email newsletters
because then people also feellike they're getting like real
time, real time you, like whatis on your heart to share right
now, because I think that'sreally important as well.
Like, so whatever you have toshare in your heart is something
people need to hear.
(29:36):
So um add on that that layer aswell.
Uh I I a lot of my clients taketheir their email sequences and
their email newsletters, andthey they I I am a high
proponent for repurposing, I'msure for you as well.
Like in marketing.
Love repurposing.
We purpose that.
(29:57):
So in the emails basicallyinspire them, like, oh, I can
use this basically as a scriptfor my YouTube video that I I
can use.
And then they go, oh, this couldthis is actually a seed for a
blog.
I can expand on this.
And and it again, I as as amarketer, as you know, like it
(30:17):
depends on everyone has adifferent marketing plan.
And so for some, it's like, oh,this could be a YouTube, this
can be my next YouTube video, orthis can be my um the seed for
my next blog post, or this canuh be a series in my podcast.
Um, and so you basically cantake these stories and you can
just repurpose, dice it up.
(30:39):
Like say, like if you cook a bigmeal, you have leftovers, you
can repurposing is like takingthose leftovers, dice it up, put
something new in, and then youcan like it almost like grows
over over the week.
SPEAKER_00 (30:54):
Yeah, that's really smart.
Um, there was something thatcame up in my mind, and I
forgot.
I had a question that came up.
Okay, that happens.
So, okay.
Last thing you said was or onyour form, you had that you have
(31:15):
a copy clarity quiz.
Can you tell me about that?
SPEAKER_01 (31:18):
Oh, yes, actually, and then I might also talk about
my email storytelling guide too.
Is that okay?
SPEAKER_00 (31:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh, yeah.
Okay, put that on there.
SPEAKER_01 (31:29):
Uh so kind of like we well, kind of like what we
talked about with the the hook,the storytelling, then segue
into your talking about yourmarketing content and then the
DTA.
I have a an email storytellingguide that's free.
And it has in there like 25story prompts.
(31:53):
It has seven types of hook.
Let's see, I'm trying toremember.
Um, it has um also 15 or 20segues that you can just plug
and play.
So it's really like a referenceguide.
Um, and it's like something thatyou'll actually use and not just
look at it and and forget aboutit.
SPEAKER_00 (32:12):
Yeah, I mean download it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:14):
Yeah, you can grab that.
Um, and that I mean, I stillreferen I also reference that
for myself sometimes.
SPEAKER_00 (32:20):
I do the same thing.
I reference my resourcesconstantly.
Yeah, it's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (32:25):
So see, that's how you know it's like this is a
good resource because sometimesmy brain is just not working.
I'm like, I need to go to my uhright, exactly.
Okay, I love that.
So that's my email storytellingguide.
It's called Three Simple Stepsto Irresistibly Entertaining
Emails That Sell.
And then I do have a newfreebie.
(32:48):
It is the copy clarity compassquiz.
And that one is basically takingmy seven-step stories framework
that I use in my program.
And I've found this is these areall the pieces.
Um I'm I'm using a circle as awheel because the quiz is
(33:09):
basically it's not your, it'snot your standard quiz where you
it's not like multiple choice.
It is, it is a wheel, and youget ended getting a visual of
your strengths and places youwant to work on next.
And so it just gives you a lotof clarity around what's going
on with copywriting in youremails because a lot of times
(33:30):
clients come to me thinking it'sjust the copy.
But what we uncover is a lotmore than that.
And so this wheel will help youuncover and pinpoint exactly
what it is that might that isworking and is not working.
SPEAKER_00 (33:46):
I remember what I was going to ask or what came to
my mind.
Okay.
Okay.
Yep.
So I love that you have thosetwo sequences where the first
sequence, the more nurturingsequence, helps people uncover
what problem they're goingthrough because a lot of times
people are just symptom awarewhen they come to you.
They're like, this isn'tworking.
(34:08):
My sales are down.
And they need to understand,they need to go through a
process to understand what theproblem is.
And then you move them into whatis the solution?
I love that you have thosesequences in that order.
I do the same thing in adifferent way in offers.
Like what kind of offer makessense when people are only
(34:30):
symptom aware?
How do you move them to thatnext, like close that loop?
And then you're opening a newloop.
So what's the solution?
So you have to find that offer.
So I love that.
It really ties together well.
And I think it's something thata lot of people don't think
about when you're not in likethe marketing sales world and
(34:51):
you're more of a consultant or acoach where you're like, I'm
good at this thing.
They don't think about thepsychology of where people are
at each phase of that salesprocess.
So love that.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (35:04):
Jared.
And I love how you say it's likeit's like closing the loop
before you move on to the nextone.
SPEAKER_00 (35:08):
Yeah, which is another writing term.
Close the loop.
SPEAKER_01 (35:12):
Yes, I love, I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Their expertise isn'tnecessarily that.
And I mean for me, I come fromvery much like a teaching lens
because I was a teacher for 15years and I come from the
education world.
And so to me, like marketing andselling is like, oh, teachers
(35:33):
are really good marketers andsellers because every day
they're in there.
SPEAKER_00 (35:38):
Yeah, you have to convince the students to do the
thing and tell explain why it'simportant and why they would
want it.
SPEAKER_01 (35:44):
Exactly.
Yeah.
And it's almost like, and that Ifeel like that's another big
piece of it, is that um a lot ofa lot of uh the coaches who and
entrepreneurs who come to me arein that like convincing, they're
in that convincing um, what doyou call it?
Uh stage stage.
(36:05):
So they feel like they're kindthey they gets there's they're
just they're tired becausethey're like, I'm constantly
trying to convince people and noone's like no one's doing
anything.
And I I like to say like, and itgoes back to what you said about
like the symptoms.
It's like, okay, you're you'reapproaching your writing like a
lawyer and you're on the standsand you're trying so hard to
(36:27):
convince the judge and the juryof whatever it is.
It's tiring because like nothingis happening.
Versus like you're you're likeright like you're a doctor, like
you're you know what thesymptoms are.
You you can see that in yourclients, and now you're you're
creating it like a treatmentplan for them.
(36:48):
That's that's what you'rewaiting for.
SPEAKER_00 (36:50):
That's the perfect way to put it.
Because they are not yourexpert, they just know what
they're feeling.
SPEAKER_01 (36:57):
Yeah, yeah.
So it just it then it doesn'tfeel like this, like this energy
of like you gotta work with me,come and work with me.
It's this is what you need todo.
It's more like, hey, I seewhat's going on, and I'm gonna
show I'm gonna show you likewhat what's the root causes, and
then here's this is thesolution.
This is what I can offer you.
(37:18):
And just with the shift in thatenergy, they they start to get
more engagement.
SPEAKER_00 (37:23):
Yeah, and a lot of times, like if they are doing so
much convincing, then they areprobably attracting at the very
top of the level of the funnel.
So they are attracting peoplewho are only symptom aware
instead of like hand raisersthat are like, okay, this is my
(37:43):
problem.
I understand it.
And it really you have to beattracting at all of those
levels to keep your pipelinefull.
SPEAKER_01 (37:52):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, the different levels.
SPEAKER_00 (37:55):
Yes.
Okay, this was awesome.
I had so much fun.
Is there anything else that youwant the audience to know before
we wrap up?
SPEAKER_01 (38:06):
Um I would say that like talking about all these
things for me is like it'sreally fun.
And I really obviously very muchenjoy talking about it.
But it can feel veryoverwhelming for people to
suddenly be like, gosh, I haveto use stories.
I I have to like, oh my gosh, Ihave to like it's it's like too
(38:26):
much.
And um I just I would like tosay like there are no like
have-to's or shoulds.
Like anytime there's a should,just reflect on why you think
it's a should.
Um, and then either reframe itor like, no, you don't need to
do it.
Um, so just really be aware ofthat because I know as
(38:47):
entrepreneurs, we can get intothis cycle, the hamster wheel
cycle, and we're just like gonnaadd on more and more and more
until you're just like exhaustedand on the floor.
And so this is something that II I have been also on my own
journey on is like, how do wesimplify?
So if you're hearing all thisand you're feeling overwhelmed,
(39:10):
like, oh my gosh, this is alltoo much, like just simplify and
just take the one, just take theone step, take the one nugget
that you got from here and justgo with that.
And then you can always go andbuild from there, but first just
like start with that one step.
SPEAKER_00 (39:26):
Yeah, that I like that.
That's really helpful because itcan be overwhelming when you're
hearing all this advice.
SPEAKER_01 (39:33):
Like that seems over my head, especially I feel like
storytelling can feel sonebulous to someone who doesn't
understand it, who isn'timmersed in it when it's yeah,
yeah, it doesn't have to be askill, it's definitely a skill
to learn, and that's the thewhole cake thing, it's like
(39:57):
you're seeing yourself as aprofessional baker in your
business, and we gotta juststart with basics, start with
the basics, and at some pointyou're gonna get to that point
where okay, you got the you gotthe whole cake, you have all the
the layers in there.
SPEAKER_00 (40:12):
Yes, yes.
Um, and before like the closingthought I just want people to
take away is I have a client whois a VC, and they have told me a
thousand times in justconversation that the thing that
(40:33):
separates startups that thriveand ones that just fall apart is
storytelling.
And it's something that honestlysurprised me.
He was like the stories thatthey tell and bringing people
like investors, users of theirproducts along on their journey
(40:58):
and making them care is thething that turns them into
unicorns.
So this skill set even worksfrom like these people who are
they spend their money investingin in other companies.
They even see the value ofstorytelling in business, which
(41:19):
I found super interesting.
I was like, I'm gonna write thatdown.
I'm gonna tell everybody yousaid that.
SPEAKER_01 (41:25):
That's so good.
I love that.
I I a hundred percent agree thatyeah, storytelling has just so
many different purposes besideswhat we had we had talked about.
Like there's so many layers toit.
That's like the first thingsthat we've done as humans is
storytelling.
SPEAKER_00 (41:45):
Yeah, that's true.
Um, how can people work with youand find you online?
SPEAKER_01 (41:52):
Sure, yeah.
They can find me on my website,which is deskplantcreatives.com.
That is my uh my business name.
Uh, and then from there you canit can go look around.
Uh, I have my free emailstorytelling guide on there too.
And one of the best ways rightnow uh to work with me is
(42:16):
through my copy coachingprogram, Inbox to Impact.
And that's where I'm really uhteaching and coaching and cut
and consulting like all wrappedin into one.
Um, so that you can really writeemails that are open worthy,
that get that engagement, thatget more clicks.
Um and it really is it's a skilland a strategy that that you can
(42:40):
learn along the way.
Uh so yeah, the my program isalso on my website, Discipline
Creative Ask Com.
Uh I'm most active in my ownemail community.
Uh so if you download one of myuh free guides, you'll also join
my email community.
(43:00):
And then also on LinkedIn, thatis my pseudoactive in the
messages there.
Uh you can always DM me there inLinkedIn.
Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn.
My name is Joanne Homestead.
And then you can also look upJoanne Humpstead copywriter, but
(43:22):
I am pretty sure I'm still theonly Joanne Homestead on
LinkedIn.
That's convenient.
SPEAKER_00 (43:28):
I can have to use my middle name for everything.
I have the most generic name.
You love all things tinymarketing.
Head down to the show notes pageand sign up for the wait list to
join the Tiny Marketing Club,where you get to work one-on-one
with me with trainings,feedback, and pop-up coaching
(43:50):
that will help you scale yourmarketing as a B2B service
business.
So I'll see you over in theclub.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.