February 2, 2025 • 44 mins
This episode focuses on building an engaged audience through organic marketing strategies, emphasizing the power of storytelling and authenticity in social media interactions. Emma Tessler provides actionable insights on standing out in a crowded market, leveraging unique traits, and effectively selling with a service-oriented mindset.
• Importance of auditing current social media efforts
• Standing out through uniqueness and personal storytelling
• Reframing selling as serving and providing solutions
• Using DMs for meaningful engagement and connection
• Strategies for re-engaging a dormant audience
• Content creation to guide potential clients through the sales funnel
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Tiny Marketing.
This is Sarah Noelle Block, andthis is a podcast that helps
B2B service businesses do morewith less.
Learn lean, actionable, organicmarketing strategies you can
implement today.
No fluff, just powerful growthtactics that work.
Ready to scale smarter, hitthat subscribe button and start
growing your business with TinyMarketing.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hey friends, it's Sarah Noelle Block and you're
listening to Tiny Marketing Club.
Today is episode 122 and Iwanted to do a little
juxtaposition from last week'sepisode.
In 121, we talked about theanti-social media strategy to
lead generation.
So we talked about how you can,on repeat, generate new leads
(00:48):
without having to rely on socialmedia because ew.
But this week I am talking toEmma Tesler and she is teaching
us how to grow your audience onsocial media using just organic.
So we're talking storytellingstrategies, we're talking
(01:08):
engagement, we're talking aboutbuilding community.
Emma is brilliant and I'mexcited to have her today, so
enjoy this episode.
Hi, emma, can you introduceyourself to the audience?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yes, I'm so excited to be here.
My name is Emma Tesler and I'mthe founder of 95 Media.
Really, we specialize increating high converting content
for brands, who are just kindof tired of posting on social
media but not seeing the results.
I really believe in the powerof organic marketing and that is
what we do best.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You know you're a girl after my own heart.
I'm all about organic and Ilove that you focus in on social
media, especially organicsocial media, because so few
people do amen.
Yes, I'm working with a lot ofsoloists who have seen that
black void screaming into thevoid effect of social media,
(02:06):
where it's a lot of times theyjust don't feel like it's worth
it, that they can't get anytraction from it.
So we're going to dive intothat and how to not only not be
screaming into the void but alsoyou'll get engagement and
conversions from social media.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yes, I mean there are just so many brands not doing
it the right way, but there's somuch opportunity out there and
you truly don't need to spendthousands of dollars a month on
paid media.
If your organic marketing isdoing the right thing,
connecting with the right people, you can absolutely see results
with just organic.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yes, I'm absolutely with you.
I think in our original call webonded over messaging, like the
importance of messaging and howit ties it bleeds through to
everything else that you do,including social media.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yes, yeah, I mean your messaging is truly what
sets you apart.
You know, there's nothing superunique anymore.
I mean, even just looking atwhat we do right, like marketing
, there's a million and onemarketers out there.
But it really comes down to howyou present yourself, how you
connect with your audience, andwhat is that like common thread
of messaging through all of yourcontent?
Because that's ultimately goingto be why someone chooses to
(03:20):
work with you, rather than theperson down the street who does
the exact same thing as you.
So really always just lookingfor how to stand out in the
social media world.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yes, that's a really, really good point, because a
lot of us are in like acommodity space.
I'm working with CFOs, I'mworking with copywriters and
there are a lot of people in thefinancial space.
There are a lot of people doingcopywriting.
So how do you stand out?
People doing copywriting so howdo you stand out?
(03:48):
What is your advice for someonewho is doing social media?
Because they think that theyshould, but they're not seeing
any results?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well, first I would audit what you're currently
doing, because sometimes wethink things aren't really
working when that may not be thecase.
We have clients come to us allthe time.
They're like wait a second,like nothing's working.
All of our numbers are crazy,like the continent is performing
well and we're like well, let'stake a step back here, let's
look at the data and actuallythe data looks really great, so
(04:15):
we don't need to worry.
But we get into our headsometimes and we think, well, oh
, it's not working because of X,y and Z.
But ultimately, when you lookat your numbers, they tell you
everything you need to know.
So if you don't thinksomething's working, I would
really take 10 minutes out ofyour day and sit down with the
numbers, get familiar with themand really understand what
they're telling you.
And, on the flip side, if youthink things are going well,
(04:36):
still look at those numbers,because that will tell you what
is not working and what you needto swap out Now in order to
really kind of stand out withyour messaging and set yourself
apart.
The number one thing that Ireally recommend doing is
thinking about what makes youdifferent.
Sometimes in our quote unquotereal lives we try and dim the
things that set us apart.
(04:56):
Maybe it's something we'reself-conscious about or maybe at
one point, like as a child, yougot made fun of, but those are
exactly the things that set youapart on social.
And it's so funny becausesometimes you look at
influencers and people getfamous for like doing something
that you don't allow people todo in your regular everyday life
.
But they just leaned into thatthing, you know.
(05:17):
And so we I think a lot of usdon't really lean in to the
thing that sets us apart.
We lean out.
If you could start leaning intothe thing that sets you apart
in any small little differentway, it may just be that
catalyst that your audienceneeds to say oh, look at her,
that's so cool.
I want to consume more of hercontent and ultimately I want to
(05:38):
work with her because she'sdoing something different.
I'm not seeing that anywhereelse.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
You are absolutely right.
I have seen.
I actually tested out.
It's like what are I hear?
One day I think we talked aboutthis in our pre call I wrote
down all of the little thingsthat I thought made me different
, based off of my experience,and I just started testing it
out to see what resonated withpeople.
One week I'd focus on thisthing, the next another, and
(06:04):
that was how I was able to seewhat unique value proposition of
mine mattered to people that Iwould want to work with.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
That's so good.
I love the idea of testing outthose different things because
it doesn't feel like we're allreally weird in some different
ways and you don't have to likeput all that out there, but it
can just be one thing that justkind of built a connection.
You know like, for example, Ihave celiac so I'm gluten-free.
I never talk about that onsocial, but if I were, that
could bring in a community ofpeople who also resonated with
(06:37):
you know it can be something assimple as that.
It doesn't have to be somethingsuper vulnerable.
It doesn't have to be somethingthat makes you feel like you
know you're opening yourself upfor critique.
Just be something about youthat you live with in your
everyday life and it's somethingthat people can connect on.
Ultimately, we're all lookingfor that connection on social.
So your job as a marketer or asa brand or as the founder of a
(06:58):
business who's looking to bringin, you know, a real community
and build that community, you'retrying to find, ultimately,
points of interest that cancreate connection between that
person and your brand, whetherit's a personal brand, product,
service, whatever it is.
You're really trying to buildconnection points like you would
in a friendship, like you know,when you make a new friend,
(07:19):
you're like, oh, you went tothat high school, I know someone
else who went to that highschool, or you really like that
type of food, let's go grabdinner and a drink at that place
, but you're looking for thosethings that have similarities
between you and that'sultimately.
You know, we think about thatwith in-person friendships and
relationships, but we struggleoftentimes to think about that
in that way for online marketingand it really is so true.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, that's really accurate, and I don't think that
it hit for me until I had tostart selling on a regular basis
and I realized what I'm doinghere to build relationships and
work is exactly what I do tomake friends in real life.
And it didn't connect to meuntil I had to sell because I
(08:03):
used to do retainers, so I wouldhave to sell like five times in
two years.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, isn't that so funny?
Well, I love that.
I love that you had that shift.
I mean, with social there'salways opportunities for selling
and what's so cool is that youget to sell in so many different
ways with social because yourcontent is always selling for
you.
You have your Instagram stories, which are really low risk
content you can literally pitchlike publicly to a large, like
one to many type of style onyour stories.
(08:32):
And then there's your DMs,where you have one to one
interactions and you have a moredirect line of communication
with that person who send voicenotes etc.
So it's a great like landingplace to really test those
selling skills, because,ultimately, what we're all using
social for is to sell.
Like you market with yourcontent and then you utilize
that, as you know, part of thebuyer journey to sell someone on
(08:55):
whatever it is that you'reoffering.
So it's really cool that youhad that experience, because a
lot of our clients experiencethe same yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah, I bet they do, cause it was like why didn't I
wrist twist before?
Kind of moment, like I shouldhave known this.
Yeah, but okay, I want tomarinate on what you just talked
about, but before we do that,let's go back a moment.
So, for people who might notthink that there's anything
special about them, anythingthat makes them stand out, what
(09:25):
are some other exercises oranything like that that they
could go through to startpicking out things that might
resonate with people?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Such a good question.
I would recommend I mean, Idon't have like an exercise, but
what I would say to do is totalk with like a friend, or talk
to your current clients as well.
Your clients, or you knowcustomers, have so much
information that they oftentimesdon't share with you, but they
have a really unique perspectivebecause they're on the other
(09:59):
side of that experience.
So maybe it's like hey, what doyou love seeing on our social,
like now that you work with usand like you're over that bridge
, what do you love seeing now?
What did you love seeing beforeyou signed, what would you like
to see more of?
On social?
I would also pull your audiencePosting Instagram stories and
having like hey, what do youwant to see more of?
(10:21):
And have options for them.
Oftentimes, people do betterwhen you have options rather
than just like open, open door.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Where do we go To identify something If you're
given options rather than anopen text box?
You're like yes completely.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
And I mean, I would also look at, like get honest
with yourself too and thinkabout the things that maybe make
you a little uncomfortable orthings that you find yourself
not really sharing a lot of, andchallenge yourself to just
share like the tip of theiceberg about it, right?
Like how I said I have celiacdisease and I'm gluten free.
Because of that, I didn't tellyou my entire life story.
I didn't tell you like how Ifound it and how I was so sick
(11:02):
before I found it and what thatjourney was like to go off
gluten and what how ittransformed my life.
I didn't tell you any of that.
But just like saying that onepart like oh yeah, I'm gluten
free Like that opens the doorfor a lot of conversations
because people who also haveexperience that likely know that
journey, or maybe someone isfeeling like they might be and
so they want to learn more aboutit, and it just you know you
(11:22):
have so much commonality, somuch gray space that you could
find connection points on.
But again, it's not somethingthat I talk a lot about because
it's just part of my every day.
Like I don't really think aboutit.
But when we take a moment tosit and think like OK, what are
those things that like I don'treally talk about but like
definitely make me a little bitdifferent.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It can just be like the to you know a lot more
connection.
Yeah, and I think that a goodstarting point as you're trying
to figure out what makes youunique is to look at the things
that really challenged you inyour life, that you had to go
through a journey on to discoverand come out from the other
side, because those stories areprobably the ones that are going
to resonate the most, becausepeople will come in like, oh, oh
, that sounds like me.
I've been in that samesituation.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Totally.
And I mean you're talking aboutto like the pain, like to
pleasure, kind of like arch thateveryone experiences in
different ways.
But those stories and when youcan really hone in on that story
is really captivating to a lotof people who want to know more
and it entices them but alsoconnects with them too.
So that's a great way oflooking at it.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Let's go into selling withsocial media because that is
very controversial where peopleare either all in on it or like
I can't, I'll lose my followerson it.
So what are some strategiesthat people can take to start
just like dipping their toe inon that?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I would first challenge the idea of like why
it feels weird or uncomfortableto sell on social Right.
Because if you're not reallylooking to sell on social, then
I would wonder objectivelywonder, why are we posting it
Right Like what's our goal here?
Because you know there's alwaysdifferent parts of like the
(13:14):
customer funnel that you'relooking to target with your
marketing.
So you know, if you're lookingto increase brand reach and
awareness, you're really lookingat top of funnel.
If you're looking for moresales, you're looking at bottom
of your funnel.
So, depending on where yourgoals lie with your marketing,
you would or yeah, with the endgoal of your marketing, you
would approach your marketingcontent very differently.
(13:37):
So if you were like no, I'm notlooking to directly get sales
out of this, because we have adifferent process that brings in
sales and leads, what I'mreally looking to do is increase
top of funnel, I would ask morequestions and I would really
try and get to the bottom oflike well, why isn't social an
avenue where you get leads?
Leads from?
Because it can be right.
The other flip side of this isthat everything we all do every
(14:02):
single day is selling somebodyon something Like.
Truly sales skills are lifeskills, because no matter if you
are selling to a prospect oryou're selling your husband on
like let's go to the taco placefor dinner I'm not cooking
dinner.
Like you are selling somebodyon something all the time.
So those sales skills aresomething that is actually
really, really valuable.
(14:23):
I was always somebody who, likereally hated the idea of selling
and I was always saying, youknow, like sales are just not my
thing, like it just.
You know, I'm not a salesperson.
I really love what I do and Ilove everything else in the
business, but like I don't lovethe sales part of it.
But this year I really got likehonest with myself about it and
(14:45):
I was like, you know what?
Like I am the reason why we'renot scaling at the rate that I
wanted us to, because I'm notfixing the problem, which is
that I'm not like bettering myown sales skills on this.
And when I made that shift and Istarted like bettering my own
skills and taking, you know,learning more materials and
really executing it, well, somuch has changed for us this
year and that's such a smalllittle thing, but it has
impacted the way that we marketand the results of our marketing
(15:06):
.
So if you feel this likeresistance against selling, I
would really dive deeper into itbecause there is so much
opportunity on the other side ofthat.
When you have your sales skillsdown and you have really great
marketing, the potential for newbusiness from your social media
(15:28):
marketing content is seriouslyunlimited.
I think there's just so muchpotential a lot of people don't
look at because we're afraid offeeling salesy and we want
people to think that we'reselling them.
But really you're sellingsomething on something every
single moment of the day, likeit's not anything crazy.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
And selling is serving.
It's not like you're trying topush something on someone who
doesn't need it.
What you're trying to do isprovide an option for a solution
to the problem that they'rehaving.
It's a matter of perspective,is what it really is.
We're often going into itfeeling like I don't want them
(16:01):
to think that I'm selling them,so don't you don't have to try
and solve them.
Instead, just try and solvetheir problem, and if your
solution is it, then that'sgreat.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Exactly, I mean when you know that you can solve a
problem for somebody, it feelsreally good to sell to them,
because you're like, oh my gosh,wait, like you don't have this,
like I got to solve that, likeI can turn that ship around for
you, like here's exactly how wecan do it and, yeah, like it's
going to be an investment, butso is everything else in life,
like that's not a crazy thing tosay, like this is going to cost
you money to see those results,but this, yeah, exactly People
(16:40):
expect it Like it's going tosolve the problem.
You're doing them a service tosell them that, whatever it is.
So you're absolutely right, itis a perspective shift and it's
an extremely powerfulperspective shift that changes
your life, changes your businessand opens so many doors.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, I mean I know because I was in a similar spot
where I felt super uncomfortablewith it, and as soon as I
changed my mindset on it I waslike this is gross.
Actually, this is helpful.
And then just the way I cameinto those conversations was
(17:18):
completely different too.
It feels like a power dynamicshift when it's a sale situation
instead of a conversation.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's also your job as the seller
to determine if you're a goodfit for the person on the other
side of the screen, you know.
So, like you're going in tointerview them as much as they
are interviewing you.
If you go in with thatperspective, then it's there's
no power imbalance, like you'reactually kind of in charge of
the conversation because you'redeciding if they're a good fit
(17:50):
to work with.
On your end, like you don'twant to sell somebody on
something that isn't a good fit.
So it's a two way street really, and I really think that, like,
when you look at it as likeit's equal parts, you're selling
them and they're selling you itjust changes the whole game.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I can transport myself back in
time and think about how, backin time, and think about how I
felt small in a sellingsituation because I felt like I
had to prove myself.
(18:27):
And then there's the powerdynamics behind like proposals
and just the back and forth.
You can really find the red andgreen flags in the sales
process too, with potentialclients, like if you made me
feel small, like I had to begfor your work, then it's
(18:50):
probably not a good fit.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Yes, I mean, I think it comes with experience as well
, determining those red andgreen flags and also knowing
that you're in a place of power.
Because I think a lot of us,especially in like your early
days of starting your business,like you're just trying to get
work through the door, so yousay yes to some projects that
like in your gut, you know youshouldn't have said yes to, and
(19:14):
then you like feel it for monthsto come because you're like
well crap, like I knew Ishouldn't have said yes to that
person.
And so when you learn thoselike I think we all have to have
that experience.
But when you get through thatand you start to realize this is
a good client, this is notreally where I want to be.
It really puts you in aposition of power.
And I could talk about proposalsall day.
(19:35):
I am such a like I lovelearning about how other people
do their proposals and just thatentire uh like sales journey
that you bring people on.
It's really cool to figure out,like what works and what
doesn't and adjust to the clientum and their needs through the
journey, as well as continuingto make sure that, like your
process is streamlined, causethere's so many different ways
(19:55):
to you know propose services tosomebody, but really figuring
out what works for like yourindustry, your types of clients
and your business is such a sucha really cool part of doing
business and also being able toshift within the company.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, it is fun and it really depends on who you're
selling to in order to like whatyour process can look like,
because I haven't done proposalsin years.
I do a completely differentprocess, but I know someone who
is working with majorenterprises.
You know they have thoseinternal deals where it's like I
need three proposals, sosometimes you just can't avoid
(20:34):
it.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
No, totally.
I mean every industry is sodifferent, so it's exactly
figuring out what works.
And then I mean we had aprocess that worked for us for
like three years and then I likeburned down to the ground and
completely redid our entiresales processes I am so curious
about pull off.
well, we did.
We did a lot of changes and Igot some outside help with it as
(20:56):
well to to really put togethersomething that created a better
experience.
Because what I was realizingwas that the sales journey we
were taking people through wastotally aligned with the level
of service that we offered threeyears ago.
But we are at such a higherlevel of service now that I
really wanted to elevate thesales journey for our audience
and support them in differentways.
So we did a lot of things.
(21:18):
One of my favorite thing thatwe that we implemented this year
was a new format of ourproposals.
We do proposals for everysingle sales call, and
previously I would like puttogether like a document, like a
PDF, and email it over, and nowwe have a secondary call where
I literally walk through theproposal.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Huge difference.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Huge difference Love.
But even more than that it's ifanyone listening is familiar
with Dubsado.
It's custom coded in Dubsado.
It's interactive.
They can like add the things totheir cart along the way yeah,
we love Dubsado.
And they can go through theproposal contract invoice
process on their own, whicheliminated the need for back and
(21:57):
forth with myself.
It made them more in thedriver's seat of their own
customer journey and really madeit simple for everybody to just
say like okay, here's ittogether, let's walk through it,
let's answer questions, Justhandle objections if you have
them, and then by the time thatyou get this, you're feeling
really good about it or we'regoing back to make adjustments
(22:17):
because you didn't feel goodabout it the first time around.
So it's just really changed thegame and those little shifts
which can feel really little inthe moment, can have such a
massive impact on your businessas a whole that it's our job as
founders to really consistentlybe auditing those items of our
business and processes withinour business that can be
optimized.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I love auditing my systems.
Like anybody who listens tothis show, they know I'm a
systems girl and I second yourDubsado choice Everybody who
because I will do a proposalafter I do a gateway offer.
So I do end up sending theproposal through Dubsado with
(22:59):
the contract and the invoice.
But I love it because you cansend follow-up emails
automatically.
You can schedule your firstappointment right there.
You don't have to like, youjust set it up and then you
don't have to deal with finish10.
It's all done perfectly.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Those onboarding workflows are my favorite, so we
favorite.
We've always had an onboardingworkflow, but we built out a
workflow, as you were mentioning, for the proposals as well.
So a bunch of follow-up emailsand then, once they're converted
into a paying client, then itkicks off their onboarding
workflow and it reallyeliminates so much of your own
time, which, to me, whenever Isee myself doing something like
(23:38):
over and over again, I'm like no, this needs to be automated, I
need to not be a part of thisprocess.
Let's go, let's figure this out, because this is not a good use
of my time.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah yeah, Every client I've had since I've moved
to Sato has been like I lovethat.
What was that experience that I?
Speaker 3 (23:52):
just went through.
Yeah, it is.
I literally had a client emailme the other day.
They were like so we loved thejourney, we loved like your
entire sales process.
Did you like develop softwareto make that proposal Like?
We want to do that for us.
I was like no, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
We did a step side.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Like I do not custom anything.
That is not anything crazy, butyeah it's.
It is really cool when you getcompliments on your own system
and you're like it works for me,like it's just a great way to a
great part of the business.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yeah, I actually went to it after I hired a web
designer who used Dumb Sod.
I'm like that was such abeautiful experience.
I want to bet yeah, exactlyOkay.
Yeah, exactly Okay.
So we were talking aboutselling on social and you
mentioned stories you can pitchdirectly and not.
(24:45):
Now let's talk about the DMaspect of it.
So what is an appropriate wayto use?
Speaker 3 (24:55):
DMs to sell.
Well, there's so many.
Truly, I mean, your DMs arelike a playground really for
direct conversations.
One of my favorite tools in DMsis the voice memo option.
Right, so you can send a voicememo and I know some people like
don't love voice memos, butwhat's really great about them
is that you again have thatreally personalized touch to the
(25:17):
message.
You know that it's directlyfrom somebody, you can give a
really custom answer and theycan hear your voice, which again
, is just another way to connectwith somebody.
When you look at I don't knowjust like ways to connect I'm
sure it's like a scientific namefor that, but we look at things
like body language, right, likeam I facing you?
(25:37):
Do we have direct eye contact?
Are my hands doing anythingcrazy?
Well, you don't have any ofthat on a platform like
Instagram.
So ways to add that back in andadd that human touch is through
a voice note, and it's a reallysimple way to do it.
It takes just as long as typingout a message.
One of my other favorite thingsto do in DMs is actually send
(25:59):
welcome messages to newfollowers.
Now, there's a really spammyway to do that and there's a
really human way to do that.
I think they're both the onenot to do.
The spammy version of this isto have it like automated and
set up through meta or withinyour Instagram and have like a
bot message, essentially be sentout to any new followers that
(26:22):
follow your page.
I've been on the receiving endof those.
It's very obvious that it'slike a bot.
It almost like turns you offmore than piques your interest,
which is obviously the oppositeof what we want to have happen.
Now, on the flip side of that,the really human way to go about
sending a welcome message isyes, you can absolutely have
(26:49):
like a canned part of yourmessage, but have a personalized
aspect in there.
Will this take time?
Yeah, but should this take morethan two minutes of looking at
someone's profile?
No, so things you want to addin are like someone's first name
.
You want to add in somethingthat maybe you really enjoy
about their profile.
Ask them a personal question,give them a compliment on
something.
It doesn't have to be likeanything crazy.
We don't have to overthink this.
It's really like you seesomebody wearing a cute sweater
(27:22):
in a grocery store and you lether know like oh my gosh, I love
that sweater.
Where'd you get it?
Like open the conversation,just be human about it, you know
.
But I can't tell you how manytimes we have sent those types
of messages from our 95 MediaInstagram account and it has
opened a sales conversation thatnever would have been started.
When we send those welcomemessages, it begins
conversations that really neverwould have started otherwise.
Oftentimes I'll do like atraining or a presentation or
even a podcast interview likethis and it'll bring in, you
(27:44):
know, a new follower for ouraccount, and we don't always, as
humans, like tell people whywe're following them or like let
them know how we found them.
But just by starting theconversation on our end, we
oftentimes learn oh, you camefrom this podcast or you really
loved that, or you saw us doingX, y and Z and now you want to
learn more about our services.
(28:04):
And you know, so many have comeout, so many sales
conversations have come out ofthose welcome messages that
truly either never would have orwould have taken like six
months for them to go throughthat journey and, you know, get
up the courage to take the nextstep.
So it's a really cool way tolike just nurture your audience
and let them feel really seenand heard, without it being
(28:28):
spammy, and helping them intheir own journey to get the
desired result that they'reafter as well.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, yeah, and that makes sense.
Actually, the coach that I haveright now, she she did the
voice message welcome when Istarted following her and we
ended up having a conversationand then I was like, ok, I've
finished her podcast and bingedher master classes, but it all
(28:56):
started with that welcomemessage.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Totally yeah.
And like, who knows, maybe youstill would have worked with her
, but it would have taken a lotlonger to build that
relationship and to really feellike she was a good fit.
So those tiny little actionsteps that we can take that are
totally free and really don'trequire that much time can just
make the biggest difference.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
So let's say you have already existing audience and
you need to re-engage them.
You maybe ghosted your accountor they were a follower for a
long time and you just realizedthey're a good fit client.
Is there like a trigger thatwould make sense to start a
(29:39):
conversation?
Speaker 3 (29:43):
I think if you see that they are watching your
stories or liking your contentor even commenting on your
content, it kind of gives you ajumping off point to re-engage
with them and ask them aquestion.
But alternatively, we alsostart a lot of conversations for
ourselves as well as for a lotof the clients that we work with
(30:03):
, just based on outboundengagement too.
So sometimes we feel like wehave to wait until someone
engages with us to like give usthe permission to contact them.
But, truly, like you start theconversation too.
So one way to do that is tojust go in, consume their
content, leave a comment ontheir post or even DM them.
(30:24):
Be like hey, I saw, you knowyou just posted you got a new
puppy.
Like you know how old is he,how's it going?
Like, ask them a questionthat's relevant to them.
Don't just ask a questionthat's like oh, like um, how
many sales is your marketingbringing in for you this month?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
like that's the standard.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah, gross dm'd like please never, ever do that,
because that's simply nevergonna get you results.
But if you just take the timeto like be a human, it really
it's not that hard what aboutthe nagging dm?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
that's like you're doing such great work.
I wish there was more peopleengaging with your content.
Good help like, please like metoo, but go away yeah, we feel
the same, but now you broughtthis light to me and I am
disgusted with myself yeah, andit's like that's never going to
(31:23):
be the way to get in.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
I mean, clearly it must be working on somebody
because they keep using them andthey don't change.
But yeah, the spamming message.
I think, just really doingeverything in your power to just
like lean in again, going backto what we were saying in the
beginning, like lean into whoyou are.
If you use like really quirky,like language, or again, why
voice notes are so great isbecause you get to show who you
(31:47):
are in your voice notes and beyour enthusiastic self in your
voice notes and really show likeyour personality a little bit
more, because, again, that isgoing to be why someone is
really intrigued by what you do.
Is you know what sets you apart?
Speaker 2 (32:02):
yeah, yeah, I, I can see that I start.
After my experience with Katie,I'm like like I really like
that I started voice messagingpeople and it does have more
intimacy to it when you can hearsomeone's voice.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
A lot more yeah, and it just gives you more insight
into who they are really yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yeah, just by looking at her I wouldn't have thought
you know, sweet southern drawl,isn't that so funny, with a
totally different vibe whenyou're actually talking to
someone.
Yeah, okay, so we have stories,we have DMs.
Is there any other way thatlet's talk about posts?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
How do we sell in our posts?
How do we sell?
I mean, how do you not sell inyour posts?
You know like everything you'reposting is selling somebody on
something, as we've said.
But really I would go back tolike your funnel right, so your
sales funnel of top to bottomultimately your content.
What you're looking to do, yourfunnel right, so your sales
funnel of top to bottom,ultimately your content.
What you're looking to dobetween stories, dms and your
feed, and then, of course, yourfeed can be broken down even
(33:19):
further into like reels,carousels, static posts is
you're looking to take peoplefrom brand exposure to paying
you, and so we're going top tobottom and as you go from the
top, which is like really wide,your top of funnel, that is
going to have the most amount ofpeople.
So step number one when you'recreating content is you're
(33:39):
looking to increase yourimpressions and your reach.
That's going to increase yourtop of funnel amount of people,
and then, as you bring peopledown the funnel, you are going
to lessen the amount of peoplewho get down to the bottom and
who ultimately decide to like,book a sales call or actually
begin working with you.
And that's all good, becauseyou would never be able to serve
(34:00):
the amount of people at yourtop of funnel.
But what's really cool, by thetime people get down there they
have consumed so much that theyhave this really robust idea of
who you are.
They have trust in what you doand they know they want to work
with you.
That know like trust factor.
So really your content needs tohit on all of your different
(34:20):
content pillars.
It needs to hit them on yourstories, in your DMs, on your
feed, in your podcast, in youremails, all of these different
avenues of getting in front ofyour audience, so that they can
really learn and get to know youin different ways.
Your content, though I reallybelieve in having strong CTAs in
(34:43):
your feed content.
I would make sure that you arereally clear on what you're
selling, because if people don'tknow what you're selling,
they're never going to buy right.
So it goes back to like notwanting to feel salesy, but like
you're selling with yourcontent regardless, and then
really thinking about if yourtop of funnel is increasing your
impressions and your reach.
(35:04):
What do you do with people whohave found you?
What do you want them to donext?
So really oftentimes we look atyour reels as your really top
of funnel content becausethey're going to get the most
reach, they're going to get themost impressions, more than a
carousel or a static post.
But when people find youthrough your reel, what happens
(35:25):
next is critical.
So if they're going to yourprofile, they then consume your
static and your carousel content, which should be more sales
focused content, versus yourreels being more entertainment
style content.
And then that way you are againkind of approaching it with a
really holistic strategy so thatas they continue to consume
your content, they're buildingtrust with you and more enticed
(35:46):
to reach out.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
That is really helpful and I've never heard
that advice on this show before.
So content that gets the mostimpressions should be more
entertainment based and then,when you get down to the ones
that don't get as manyimpressions are probably going
to be your bigger fan.
The people that are more.
They're going to your profileintentionally, so those can be
(36:11):
more selling and I agree withyou.
All content should sell and bythe time that you're going on a
sales call or someone's slidinginto your DMs because they're
interested in your offer, theyshould already be 99% sold
through your content and itshould just be like a logistics
call, Like when can we do it?
Those kind of questions.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Those are the best sales calls truly, because it
really makes your life so mucheasier, and I mean a podcast is
a huge part of that.
I don't know if you experiencedthat as well, but, like I have
so many sales calls where peoplebe like yeah, I just listened
to like a bunch of your recentepisodes.
I love X, y and Z topics.
The podcast is literallyclosing calls for us and it is
making it so much easier to geton the call because it's long
(36:57):
form and, again, it's voice.
So it's creating that personalconnection with them.
Even though it's one to many,it's not even just for that one
person.
It is showing expertise, it'sbuilding trust, it's giving them
opportunities to grow for freeand by the time you get the
sales call, they're they're soldfrom that content and then you
get on.
You're like cool, like when,where do we go from here?
(37:17):
What do you want to do?
Speaker 2 (37:18):
so freaking lootly.
My podcast has brought in somany clients, even if they like
here, I'll give you a funnel howthings we go on my end.
So a lot of times they discoverI existed from someone else's
podcast.
I guessed it on it and they'relike, oh, she has a podcast, so
(37:41):
they'll go to mine and they'llbinge that.
That nurtures them.
And then they go to a salescall and it's almost always like
that at a sales call thismorning that closed and she had
accidentally found my podcastand booked a sales call right
from that one episode Amazing,yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Isn't that so crazy?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
right now.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
That's so cool.
I mean truly, like you know,not to go down a rabbit hole of
podcasting, but people oftenlook at podcasting as like, oh,
I want to monetize the podcastwith an ad, or I want to
monetize it with a sponsorship,and really there's so many ways
to monetize your podcast and thebest way is when it's for free
and you're literally monetizingyour own services through your
podcast, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Absolutely.
I have sponsors on my show andsometimes I'll decline sponsors
because I have a campaign and Iwant to be pitching my thing.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Yeah, exactly, I mean it's just as valuable at the
end of the day.
Yeah, no more.
More valuable.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
My sponsors aren't paying as much.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
True.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
All right.
How can people work with you?
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Yeah, so our main service is social media
management.
So, in that we reallyspecialize in creating high
converting content.
What we do is work with brandsfrom top to bottom on their
marketing campaigns.
We film the content, we createthe posts, really deeply engage
with our audience and utilizethe data to optimize that
(39:15):
content and that customerjourney for your audience on
social consistently, everysingle week.
It's something we're sopassionate about because, as
we've said a million times,there's just an unlimited amount
of opportunity on social.
So, yeah, if you're looking forsocial media management, if
you're looking for done for youservices, we're you know, I'd
love to talk, we're definitely agreat fit for that, and we also
(39:37):
have a podcast it's called StopScrolling, start Scaling, where
we do a lot of fun marketingtips and tricks, which is, you
know, along the same lines oftoday's conversation as well,
I'm going to subscribe and I'llmake sure that that's in the
show notes too.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
That service sounds incredibly valuable.
There are so many social mediamanagers that don't do the
engagement aspect of it and justdo the creation and that, like,
90% of the success is on theengagement aspect of it.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
I love that you said that, because it is like what I
say every single day.
You know, like five years ago,content did the heavy lifting
for us and it was enough to justpost a couple of times a week,
and that is just not the caseanymore.
You know, having a communitythat is like bought into your
mission, that engages with yourcontent, that watches your
stories and wants to see what'scoming up for you, is the
(40:34):
difference between getting yourcontent seen and converting it
rather than just posting intothe void.
So it's a massive part of whatwe do and we actually don't
offer social media managementpackages without engagement,
because it is that important tothe success of the overall
marketing strategy.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah, that's incredible.
All right, I will have the linkto your company in the show
notes, your podcast, and itsounds like Instagram is your
main channel, so I'll make sureto put that in there too.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, we are on every platform, but Instagram is my
favorite, so find us there.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
All right.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Thank you, this is so fun.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Well, by the end of this episode, which is where we
are right now, you should havean idea of how to grow your
community on social mediawithout ads Completely organic.
Thank you so much, Emma, forjoining me this week, and if you
enjoyed this, please hit like,subscribe, comment and tell a
(41:32):
friend.
The more often that you talkabout tiny marketing, the more
often people will listen.
So if you liked it, screenshotit and share it on social.
Make sure to tag me.
I'm Sarah Noelle Block.
I mean, you know that because Isaid it right at the beginning,
but I meant that's how you canfind me on social.
Thank you again for coming.
(41:54):
I appreciate you and yeah,that's all Goodbye.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
You love all things tiny marketing.
Head down to the show notespage and sign up for the wait
list to join the tiny marketingclub, where you get to work
one-on-one with me withtrainings, feedback and pop-up
coaching that will help youscale your marketing as a B2B
(42:21):
service business.
So I'll see you over in theclub.
Welcome to Tiny Marketing.
This is Sarah Noelle Block, andthis is a podcast that helps
B2B service businesses do morewith less.
Learn lean, actionable, organicmarketing strategies you can
implement today.
No fluff, just powerful growthtactics that work.
Ready to scale smarter, hitthat subscribe button and start
growing your business with TinyMarketing.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hey friends, it's Sarah Noelle Block and you're
listening to Tiny Marketing Club.
Today is episode 122 and Iwanted to do a little
juxtaposition from last week'sepisode.
In 121, we talked about theanti-social media strategy to
lead generation.
So we talked about how you can,on repeat, generate new leads
(00:48):
without having to rely on socialmedia because ew.
But this week I am talking toEmma Tesler and she is teaching
us how to grow your audience onsocial media using just organic.
So we're talking storytellingstrategies, we're talking
(01:08):
engagement, we're talking aboutbuilding community.
Emma is brilliant and I'mexcited to have her today, so
enjoy this episode.
Hi, emma, can you introduceyourself to the audience?
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Yes, I'm so excited to be here.
My name is Emma Tesler and I'mthe founder of 95 Media.
Really, we specialize increating high converting content
for brands, who are just kindof tired of posting on social
media but not seeing the results.
I really believe in the powerof organic marketing and that is
what we do best.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You know you're a girl after my own heart.
I'm all about organic and Ilove that you focus in on social
media, especially organicsocial media, because so few
people do amen.
Yes, I'm working with a lot ofsoloists who have seen that
black void screaming into thevoid effect of social media,
(02:06):
where it's a lot of times theyjust don't feel like it's worth
it, that they can't get anytraction from it.
So we're going to dive intothat and how to not only not be
screaming into the void but alsoyou'll get engagement and
conversions from social media.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yes, I mean there are just so many brands not doing
it the right way, but there's somuch opportunity out there and
you truly don't need to spendthousands of dollars a month on
paid media.
If your organic marketing isdoing the right thing,
connecting with the right people, you can absolutely see results
with just organic.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yes, I'm absolutely with you.
I think in our original call webonded over messaging, like the
importance of messaging and howit ties it bleeds through to
everything else that you do,including social media.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yes, yeah, I mean your messaging is truly what
sets you apart.
You know, there's nothing superunique anymore.
I mean, even just looking atwhat we do right, like marketing
, there's a million and onemarketers out there.
But it really comes down to howyou present yourself, how you
connect with your audience, andwhat is that like common thread
of messaging through all of yourcontent?
Because that's ultimately goingto be why someone chooses to
(03:20):
work with you, rather than theperson down the street who does
the exact same thing as you.
So really always just lookingfor how to stand out in the
social media world.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yes, that's a really, really good point, because a
lot of us are in like acommodity space.
I'm working with CFOs, I'mworking with copywriters and
there are a lot of people in thefinancial space.
There are a lot of people doingcopywriting.
So how do you stand out?
People doing copywriting so howdo you stand out?
(03:48):
What is your advice for someonewho is doing social media?
Because they think that theyshould, but they're not seeing
any results?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Well, first I would audit what you're currently
doing, because sometimes wethink things aren't really
working when that may not be thecase.
We have clients come to us allthe time.
They're like wait a second,like nothing's working.
All of our numbers are crazy,like the continent is performing
well and we're like well, let'stake a step back here, let's
look at the data and actuallythe data looks really great, so
(04:15):
we don't need to worry.
But we get into our headsometimes and we think, well, oh
, it's not working because of X,y and Z.
But ultimately, when you lookat your numbers, they tell you
everything you need to know.
So if you don't thinksomething's working, I would
really take 10 minutes out ofyour day and sit down with the
numbers, get familiar with themand really understand what
they're telling you.
And, on the flip side, if youthink things are going well,
(04:36):
still look at those numbers,because that will tell you what
is not working and what you needto swap out Now in order to
really kind of stand out withyour messaging and set yourself
apart.
The number one thing that Ireally recommend doing is
thinking about what makes youdifferent.
Sometimes in our quote unquotereal lives we try and dim the
things that set us apart.
(04:56):
Maybe it's something we'reself-conscious about or maybe at
one point, like as a child, yougot made fun of, but those are
exactly the things that set youapart on social.
And it's so funny becausesometimes you look at
influencers and people getfamous for like doing something
that you don't allow people todo in your regular everyday life
.
But they just leaned into thatthing, you know.
(05:17):
And so we I think a lot of usdon't really lean in to the
thing that sets us apart.
We lean out.
If you could start leaning intothe thing that sets you apart
in any small little differentway, it may just be that
catalyst that your audienceneeds to say oh, look at her,
that's so cool.
I want to consume more of hercontent and ultimately I want to
(05:38):
work with her because she'sdoing something different.
I'm not seeing that anywhereelse.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
You are absolutely right.
I have seen.
I actually tested out.
It's like what are I hear?
One day I think we talked aboutthis in our pre call I wrote
down all of the little thingsthat I thought made me different
, based off of my experience,and I just started testing it
out to see what resonated withpeople.
One week I'd focus on thisthing, the next another, and
(06:04):
that was how I was able to seewhat unique value proposition of
mine mattered to people that Iwould want to work with.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
That's so good.
I love the idea of testing outthose different things because
it doesn't feel like we're allreally weird in some different
ways and you don't have to likeput all that out there, but it
can just be one thing that justkind of built a connection.
You know like, for example, Ihave celiac so I'm gluten-free.
I never talk about that onsocial, but if I were, that
could bring in a community ofpeople who also resonated with
(06:37):
you know it can be something assimple as that.
It doesn't have to be somethingsuper vulnerable.
It doesn't have to be somethingthat makes you feel like you
know you're opening yourself upfor critique.
Just be something about youthat you live with in your
everyday life and it's somethingthat people can connect on.
Ultimately, we're all lookingfor that connection on social.
So your job as a marketer or asa brand or as the founder of a
(06:58):
business who's looking to bringin, you know, a real community
and build that community, you'retrying to find, ultimately,
points of interest that cancreate connection between that
person and your brand, whetherit's a personal brand, product,
service, whatever it is.
You're really trying to buildconnection points like you would
in a friendship, like you know,when you make a new friend,
(07:19):
you're like, oh, you went tothat high school, I know someone
else who went to that highschool, or you really like that
type of food, let's go grabdinner and a drink at that place
, but you're looking for thosethings that have similarities
between you and that'sultimately.
You know, we think about thatwith in-person friendships and
relationships, but we struggleoftentimes to think about that
in that way for online marketingand it really is so true.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, that's really accurate, and I don't think that
it hit for me until I had tostart selling on a regular basis
and I realized what I'm doinghere to build relationships and
work is exactly what I do tomake friends in real life.
And it didn't connect to meuntil I had to sell because I
(08:03):
used to do retainers, so I wouldhave to sell like five times in
two years.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, isn't that so funny?
Well, I love that.
I love that you had that shift.
I mean, with social there'salways opportunities for selling
and what's so cool is that youget to sell in so many different
ways with social because yourcontent is always selling for
you.
You have your Instagram stories, which are really low risk
content you can literally pitchlike publicly to a large, like
one to many type of style onyour stories.
(08:32):
And then there's your DMs,where you have one to one
interactions and you have a moredirect line of communication
with that person who send voicenotes etc.
So it's a great like landingplace to really test those
selling skills, because,ultimately, what we're all using
social for is to sell.
Like you market with yourcontent and then you utilize
that, as you know, part of thebuyer journey to sell someone on
(08:55):
whatever it is that you'reoffering.
So it's really cool that youhad that experience, because a
lot of our clients experiencethe same yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah, I bet they do, cause it was like why didn't I
wrist twist before?
Kind of moment, like I shouldhave known this.
Yeah, but okay, I want tomarinate on what you just talked
about, but before we do that,let's go back a moment.
So, for people who might notthink that there's anything
special about them, anythingthat makes them stand out, what
(09:25):
are some other exercises oranything like that that they
could go through to startpicking out things that might
resonate with people?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Such a good question.
I would recommend I mean, Idon't have like an exercise, but
what I would say to do is totalk with like a friend, or talk
to your current clients as well.
Your clients, or you knowcustomers, have so much
information that they oftentimesdon't share with you, but they
have a really unique perspectivebecause they're on the other
(09:59):
side of that experience.
So maybe it's like hey, what doyou love seeing on our social,
like now that you work with usand like you're over that bridge
, what do you love seeing now?
What did you love seeing beforeyou signed, what would you like
to see more of?
On social?
I would also pull your audiencePosting Instagram stories and
having like hey, what do youwant to see more of?
(10:21):
And have options for them.
Oftentimes, people do betterwhen you have options rather
than just like open, open door.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Where do we go To identify something If you're
given options rather than anopen text box?
You're like yes completely.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
And I mean, I would also look at, like get honest
with yourself too and thinkabout the things that maybe make
you a little uncomfortable orthings that you find yourself
not really sharing a lot of, andchallenge yourself to just
share like the tip of theiceberg about it, right?
Like how I said I have celiacdisease and I'm gluten free.
Because of that, I didn't tellyou my entire life story.
I didn't tell you like how Ifound it and how I was so sick
(11:02):
before I found it and what thatjourney was like to go off
gluten and what how ittransformed my life.
I didn't tell you any of that.
But just like saying that onepart like oh yeah, I'm gluten
free Like that opens the doorfor a lot of conversations
because people who also haveexperience that likely know that
journey, or maybe someone isfeeling like they might be and
so they want to learn more aboutit, and it just you know you
(11:22):
have so much commonality, somuch gray space that you could
find connection points on.
But again, it's not somethingthat I talk a lot about because
it's just part of my every day.
Like I don't really think aboutit.
But when we take a moment tosit and think like OK, what are
those things that like I don'treally talk about but like
definitely make me a little bitdifferent.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It can just be like the to you know a lot more
connection.
Yeah, and I think that a goodstarting point as you're trying
to figure out what makes youunique is to look at the things
that really challenged you inyour life, that you had to go
through a journey on to discoverand come out from the other
side, because those stories areprobably the ones that are going
to resonate the most, becausepeople will come in like, oh, oh
, that sounds like me.
I've been in that samesituation.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Totally.
And I mean you're talking aboutto like the pain, like to
pleasure, kind of like arch thateveryone experiences in
different ways.
But those stories and when youcan really hone in on that story
is really captivating to a lotof people who want to know more
and it entices them but alsoconnects with them too.
So that's a great way oflooking at it.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Let's go into selling withsocial media because that is
very controversial where peopleare either all in on it or like
I can't, I'll lose my followerson it.
So what are some strategiesthat people can take to start
just like dipping their toe inon that?
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I would first challenge the idea of like why
it feels weird or uncomfortableto sell on social Right.
Because if you're not reallylooking to sell on social, then
I would wonder objectivelywonder, why are we posting it
Right Like what's our goal here?
Because you know there's alwaysdifferent parts of like the
(13:14):
customer funnel that you'relooking to target with your
marketing.
So you know, if you're lookingto increase brand reach and
awareness, you're really lookingat top of funnel.
If you're looking for moresales, you're looking at bottom
of your funnel.
So, depending on where yourgoals lie with your marketing,
you would or yeah, with the endgoal of your marketing, you
would approach your marketingcontent very differently.
(13:37):
So if you were like no, I'm notlooking to directly get sales
out of this, because we have adifferent process that brings in
sales and leads, what I'mreally looking to do is increase
top of funnel, I would ask morequestions and I would really
try and get to the bottom oflike well, why isn't social an
avenue where you get leads?
Leads from?
Because it can be right.
The other flip side of this isthat everything we all do every
(14:02):
single day is selling somebodyon something Like.
Truly sales skills are lifeskills, because no matter if you
are selling to a prospect oryou're selling your husband on
like let's go to the taco placefor dinner I'm not cooking
dinner.
Like you are selling somebodyon something all the time.
So those sales skills aresomething that is actually
really, really valuable.
(14:23):
I was always somebody who, likereally hated the idea of selling
and I was always saying, youknow, like sales are just not my
thing, like it just.
You know, I'm not a salesperson.
I really love what I do and Ilove everything else in the
business, but like I don't lovethe sales part of it.
But this year I really got likehonest with myself about it and
(14:45):
I was like, you know what?
Like I am the reason why we'renot scaling at the rate that I
wanted us to, because I'm notfixing the problem, which is
that I'm not like bettering myown sales skills on this.
And when I made that shift and Istarted like bettering my own
skills and taking, you know,learning more materials and
really executing it, well, somuch has changed for us this
year and that's such a smalllittle thing, but it has
impacted the way that we marketand the results of our marketing
(15:06):
.
So if you feel this likeresistance against selling, I
would really dive deeper into itbecause there is so much
opportunity on the other side ofthat.
When you have your sales skillsdown and you have really great
marketing, the potential for newbusiness from your social media
(15:28):
marketing content is seriouslyunlimited.
I think there's just so muchpotential a lot of people don't
look at because we're afraid offeeling salesy and we want
people to think that we'reselling them.
But really you're sellingsomething on something every
single moment of the day, likeit's not anything crazy.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
And selling is serving.
It's not like you're trying topush something on someone who
doesn't need it.
What you're trying to do isprovide an option for a solution
to the problem that they'rehaving.
It's a matter of perspective,is what it really is.
We're often going into itfeeling like I don't want them
(16:01):
to think that I'm selling them,so don't you don't have to try
and solve them.
Instead, just try and solvetheir problem, and if your
solution is it, then that'sgreat.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Exactly, I mean when you know that you can solve a
problem for somebody, it feelsreally good to sell to them,
because you're like, oh my gosh,wait, like you don't have this,
like I got to solve that, likeI can turn that ship around for
you, like here's exactly how wecan do it and, yeah, like it's
going to be an investment, butso is everything else in life,
like that's not a crazy thing tosay, like this is going to cost
you money to see those results,but this, yeah, exactly People
(16:40):
expect it Like it's going tosolve the problem.
You're doing them a service tosell them that, whatever it is.
So you're absolutely right, itis a perspective shift and it's
an extremely powerfulperspective shift that changes
your life, changes your businessand opens so many doors.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, I mean I know because I was in a similar spot
where I felt super uncomfortablewith it, and as soon as I
changed my mindset on it I waslike this is gross.
Actually, this is helpful.
And then just the way I cameinto those conversations was
(17:18):
completely different too.
It feels like a power dynamicshift when it's a sale situation
instead of a conversation.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's also your job as the seller
to determine if you're a goodfit for the person on the other
side of the screen, you know.
So, like you're going in tointerview them as much as they
are interviewing you.
If you go in with thatperspective, then it's there's
no power imbalance, like you'reactually kind of in charge of
the conversation because you'redeciding if they're a good fit
(17:50):
to work with.
On your end, like you don'twant to sell somebody on
something that isn't a good fit.
So it's a two way street really, and I really think that, like,
when you look at it as likeit's equal parts, you're selling
them and they're selling you itjust changes the whole game.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I can transport myself back in
time and think about how, backin time, and think about how I
felt small in a sellingsituation because I felt like I
had to prove myself.
(18:27):
And then there's the powerdynamics behind like proposals
and just the back and forth.
You can really find the red andgreen flags in the sales
process too, with potentialclients, like if you made me
feel small, like I had to begfor your work, then it's
(18:50):
probably not a good fit.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Yes, I mean, I think it comes with experience as well
, determining those red andgreen flags and also knowing
that you're in a place of power.
Because I think a lot of us,especially in like your early
days of starting your business,like you're just trying to get
work through the door, so yousay yes to some projects that
like in your gut, you know youshouldn't have said yes to, and
(19:14):
then you like feel it for monthsto come because you're like
well crap, like I knew Ishouldn't have said yes to that
person.
And so when you learn thoselike I think we all have to have
that experience.
But when you get through thatand you start to realize this is
a good client, this is notreally where I want to be.
It really puts you in aposition of power.
And I could talk about proposalsall day.
(19:35):
I am such a like I lovelearning about how other people
do their proposals and just thatentire uh like sales journey
that you bring people on.
It's really cool to figure out,like what works and what
doesn't and adjust to the clientum and their needs through the
journey, as well as continuingto make sure that, like your
process is streamlined, causethere's so many different ways
(19:55):
to you know propose services tosomebody, but really figuring
out what works for like yourindustry, your types of clients
and your business is such a sucha really cool part of doing
business and also being able toshift within the company.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Yeah, it is fun and it really depends on who you're
selling to in order to like whatyour process can look like,
because I haven't done proposalsin years.
I do a completely differentprocess, but I know someone who
is working with majorenterprises.
You know they have thoseinternal deals where it's like I
need three proposals, sosometimes you just can't avoid
(20:34):
it.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
No, totally.
I mean every industry is sodifferent, so it's exactly
figuring out what works.
And then I mean we had aprocess that worked for us for
like three years and then I likeburned down to the ground and
completely redid our entiresales processes I am so curious
about pull off.
well, we did.
We did a lot of changes and Igot some outside help with it as
(20:56):
well to to really put togethersomething that created a better
experience.
Because what I was realizingwas that the sales journey we
were taking people through wastotally aligned with the level
of service that we offered threeyears ago.
But we are at such a higherlevel of service now that I
really wanted to elevate thesales journey for our audience
and support them in differentways.
So we did a lot of things.
(21:18):
One of my favorite thing thatwe that we implemented this year
was a new format of ourproposals.
We do proposals for everysingle sales call, and
previously I would like puttogether like a document, like a
PDF, and email it over, and nowwe have a secondary call where
I literally walk through theproposal.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Huge difference.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
Huge difference Love.
But even more than that it's ifanyone listening is familiar
with Dubsado.
It's custom coded in Dubsado.
It's interactive.
They can like add the things totheir cart along the way yeah,
we love Dubsado.
And they can go through theproposal contract invoice
process on their own, whicheliminated the need for back and
(21:57):
forth with myself.
It made them more in thedriver's seat of their own
customer journey and really madeit simple for everybody to just
say like okay, here's ittogether, let's walk through it,
let's answer questions, Justhandle objections if you have
them, and then by the time thatyou get this, you're feeling
really good about it or we'regoing back to make adjustments
(22:17):
because you didn't feel goodabout it the first time around.
So it's just really changed thegame and those little shifts
which can feel really little inthe moment, can have such a
massive impact on your businessas a whole that it's our job as
founders to really consistentlybe auditing those items of our
business and processes withinour business that can be
optimized.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
I love auditing my systems.
Like anybody who listens tothis show, they know I'm a
systems girl and I second yourDubsado choice Everybody who
because I will do a proposalafter I do a gateway offer.
So I do end up sending theproposal through Dubsado with
(22:59):
the contract and the invoice.
But I love it because you cansend follow-up emails
automatically.
You can schedule your firstappointment right there.
You don't have to like, youjust set it up and then you
don't have to deal with finish10.
It's all done perfectly.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Those onboarding workflows are my favorite, so we
favorite.
We've always had an onboardingworkflow, but we built out a
workflow, as you were mentioning, for the proposals as well.
So a bunch of follow-up emailsand then, once they're converted
into a paying client, then itkicks off their onboarding
workflow and it reallyeliminates so much of your own
time, which, to me, whenever Isee myself doing something like
(23:38):
over and over again, I'm like no, this needs to be automated, I
need to not be a part of thisprocess.
Let's go, let's figure this out, because this is not a good use
of my time.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah yeah, Every client I've had since I've moved
to Sato has been like I lovethat.
What was that experience that I?
Speaker 3 (23:52):
just went through.
Yeah, it is.
I literally had a client emailme the other day.
They were like so we loved thejourney, we loved like your
entire sales process.
Did you like develop softwareto make that proposal Like?
We want to do that for us.
I was like no, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
We did a step side.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
Like I do not custom anything.
That is not anything crazy, butyeah it's.
It is really cool when you getcompliments on your own system
and you're like it works for me,like it's just a great way to a
great part of the business.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yeah, I actually went to it after I hired a web
designer who used Dumb Sod.
I'm like that was such abeautiful experience.
I want to bet yeah, exactlyOkay.
Yeah, exactly Okay.
So we were talking aboutselling on social and you
mentioned stories you can pitchdirectly and not.
(24:45):
Now let's talk about the DMaspect of it.
So what is an appropriate wayto use?
Speaker 3 (24:55):
DMs to sell.
Well, there's so many.
Truly, I mean, your DMs arelike a playground really for
direct conversations.
One of my favorite tools in DMsis the voice memo option.
Right, so you can send a voicememo and I know some people like
don't love voice memos, butwhat's really great about them
is that you again have thatreally personalized touch to the
(25:17):
message.
You know that it's directlyfrom somebody, you can give a
really custom answer and theycan hear your voice, which again
, is just another way to connectwith somebody.
When you look at I don't knowjust like ways to connect I'm
sure it's like a scientific namefor that, but we look at things
like body language, right, likeam I facing you?
(25:37):
Do we have direct eye contact?
Are my hands doing anythingcrazy?
Well, you don't have any ofthat on a platform like
Instagram.
So ways to add that back in andadd that human touch is through
a voice note, and it's a reallysimple way to do it.
It takes just as long as typingout a message.
One of my other favorite thingsto do in DMs is actually send
(25:59):
welcome messages to newfollowers.
Now, there's a really spammyway to do that and there's a
really human way to do that.
I think they're both the onenot to do.
The spammy version of this isto have it like automated and
set up through meta or withinyour Instagram and have like a
bot message, essentially be sentout to any new followers that
(26:22):
follow your page.
I've been on the receiving endof those.
It's very obvious that it'slike a bot.
It almost like turns you offmore than piques your interest,
which is obviously the oppositeof what we want to have happen.
Now, on the flip side of that,the really human way to go about
sending a welcome message isyes, you can absolutely have
(26:49):
like a canned part of yourmessage, but have a personalized
aspect in there.
Will this take time?
Yeah, but should this take morethan two minutes of looking at
someone's profile?
No, so things you want to addin are like someone's first name
.
You want to add in somethingthat maybe you really enjoy
about their profile.
Ask them a personal question,give them a compliment on
something.
It doesn't have to be likeanything crazy.
We don't have to overthink this.
It's really like you seesomebody wearing a cute sweater
(27:22):
in a grocery store and you lether know like oh my gosh, I love
that sweater.
Where'd you get it?
Like open the conversation,just be human about it, you know
.
But I can't tell you how manytimes we have sent those types
of messages from our 95 MediaInstagram account and it has
opened a sales conversation thatnever would have been started.
When we send those welcomemessages, it begins
conversations that really neverwould have started otherwise.
Oftentimes I'll do like atraining or a presentation or
even a podcast interview likethis and it'll bring in, you
(27:44):
know, a new follower for ouraccount, and we don't always, as
humans, like tell people whywe're following them or like let
them know how we found them.
But just by starting theconversation on our end, we
oftentimes learn oh, you camefrom this podcast or you really
loved that, or you saw us doingX, y and Z and now you want to
learn more about our services.
(28:04):
And you know, so many have comeout, so many sales
conversations have come out ofthose welcome messages that
truly either never would have orwould have taken like six
months for them to go throughthat journey and, you know, get
up the courage to take the nextstep.
So it's a really cool way tolike just nurture your audience
and let them feel really seenand heard, without it being
(28:28):
spammy, and helping them intheir own journey to get the
desired result that they'reafter as well.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, yeah, and that makes sense.
Actually, the coach that I haveright now, she she did the
voice message welcome when Istarted following her and we
ended up having a conversationand then I was like, ok, I've
finished her podcast and bingedher master classes, but it all
(28:56):
started with that welcomemessage.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Totally yeah.
And like, who knows, maybe youstill would have worked with her
, but it would have taken a lotlonger to build that
relationship and to really feellike she was a good fit.
So those tiny little actionsteps that we can take that are
totally free and really don'trequire that much time can just
make the biggest difference.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
So let's say you have already existing audience and
you need to re-engage them.
You maybe ghosted your accountor they were a follower for a
long time and you just realizedthey're a good fit client.
Is there like a trigger thatwould make sense to start a
(29:39):
conversation?
Speaker 3 (29:43):
I think if you see that they are watching your
stories or liking your contentor even commenting on your
content, it kind of gives you ajumping off point to re-engage
with them and ask them aquestion.
But alternatively, we alsostart a lot of conversations for
ourselves as well as for a lotof the clients that we work with
(30:03):
, just based on outboundengagement too.
So sometimes we feel like wehave to wait until someone
engages with us to like give usthe permission to contact them.
But, truly, like you start theconversation too.
So one way to do that is tojust go in, consume their
content, leave a comment ontheir post or even DM them.
(30:24):
Be like hey, I saw, you knowyou just posted you got a new
puppy.
Like you know how old is he,how's it going?
Like, ask them a questionthat's relevant to them.
Don't just ask a questionthat's like oh, like um, how
many sales is your marketingbringing in for you this month?
Speaker 2 (30:39):
like that's the standard.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah, gross dm'd like please never, ever do that,
because that's simply nevergonna get you results.
But if you just take the timeto like be a human, it really
it's not that hard what aboutthe nagging dm?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
that's like you're doing such great work.
I wish there was more peopleengaging with your content.
Good help like, please like metoo, but go away yeah, we feel
the same, but now you broughtthis light to me and I am
disgusted with myself yeah, andit's like that's never going to
(31:23):
be the way to get in.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
I mean, clearly it must be working on somebody
because they keep using them andthey don't change.
But yeah, the spamming message.
I think, just really doingeverything in your power to just
like lean in again, going backto what we were saying in the
beginning, like lean into whoyou are.
If you use like really quirky,like language, or again, why
voice notes are so great isbecause you get to show who you
(31:47):
are in your voice notes and beyour enthusiastic self in your
voice notes and really show likeyour personality a little bit
more, because, again, that isgoing to be why someone is
really intrigued by what you do.
Is you know what sets you apart?
Speaker 2 (32:02):
yeah, yeah, I, I can see that I start.
After my experience with Katie,I'm like like I really like
that I started voice messagingpeople and it does have more
intimacy to it when you can hearsomeone's voice.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
A lot more yeah, and it just gives you more insight
into who they are really yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yeah, just by looking at her I wouldn't have thought
you know, sweet southern drawl,isn't that so funny, with a
totally different vibe whenyou're actually talking to
someone.
Yeah, okay, so we have stories,we have DMs.
Is there any other way thatlet's talk about posts?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
How do we sell in our posts?
How do we sell?
I mean, how do you not sell inyour posts?
You know like everything you'reposting is selling somebody on
something, as we've said.
But really I would go back tolike your funnel right, so your
sales funnel of top to bottomultimately your content.
What you're looking to do, yourfunnel right, so your sales
funnel of top to bottom,ultimately your content.
What you're looking to dobetween stories, dms and your
feed, and then, of course, yourfeed can be broken down even
(33:19):
further into like reels,carousels, static posts is
you're looking to take peoplefrom brand exposure to paying
you, and so we're going top tobottom and as you go from the
top, which is like really wide,your top of funnel, that is
going to have the most amount ofpeople.
So step number one when you'recreating content is you're
(33:39):
looking to increase yourimpressions and your reach.
That's going to increase yourtop of funnel amount of people,
and then, as you bring peopledown the funnel, you are going
to lessen the amount of peoplewho get down to the bottom and
who ultimately decide to like,book a sales call or actually
begin working with you.
And that's all good, becauseyou would never be able to serve
(34:00):
the amount of people at yourtop of funnel.
But what's really cool, by thetime people get down there they
have consumed so much that theyhave this really robust idea of
who you are.
They have trust in what you doand they know they want to work
with you.
That know like trust factor.
So really your content needs tohit on all of your different
(34:20):
content pillars.
It needs to hit them on yourstories, in your DMs, on your
feed, in your podcast, in youremails, all of these different
avenues of getting in front ofyour audience, so that they can
really learn and get to know youin different ways.
Your content, though I reallybelieve in having strong CTAs in
(34:43):
your feed content.
I would make sure that you arereally clear on what you're
selling, because if people don'tknow what you're selling,
they're never going to buy right.
So it goes back to like notwanting to feel salesy, but like
you're selling with yourcontent regardless, and then
really thinking about if yourtop of funnel is increasing your
impressions and your reach.
(35:04):
What do you do with people whohave found you?
What do you want them to donext?
So really oftentimes we look atyour reels as your really top
of funnel content becausethey're going to get the most
reach, they're going to get themost impressions, more than a
carousel or a static post.
But when people find youthrough your reel, what happens
(35:25):
next is critical.
So if they're going to yourprofile, they then consume your
static and your carousel content, which should be more sales
focused content, versus yourreels being more entertainment
style content.
And then that way you are againkind of approaching it with a
really holistic strategy so thatas they continue to consume
your content, they're buildingtrust with you and more enticed
(35:46):
to reach out.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
That is really helpful and I've never heard
that advice on this show before.
So content that gets the mostimpressions should be more
entertainment based and then,when you get down to the ones
that don't get as manyimpressions are probably going
to be your bigger fan.
The people that are more.
They're going to your profileintentionally, so those can be
(36:11):
more selling and I agree withyou.
All content should sell and bythe time that you're going on a
sales call or someone's slidinginto your DMs because they're
interested in your offer, theyshould already be 99% sold
through your content and itshould just be like a logistics
call, Like when can we do it?
Those kind of questions.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Those are the best sales calls truly, because it
really makes your life so mucheasier, and I mean a podcast is
a huge part of that.
I don't know if you experiencedthat as well, but, like I have
so many sales calls where peoplebe like yeah, I just listened
to like a bunch of your recentepisodes.
I love X, y and Z topics.
The podcast is literallyclosing calls for us and it is
making it so much easier to geton the call because it's long
(36:57):
form and, again, it's voice.
So it's creating that personalconnection with them.
Even though it's one to many,it's not even just for that one
person.
It is showing expertise, it'sbuilding trust, it's giving them
opportunities to grow for freeand by the time you get the
sales call, they're they're soldfrom that content and then you
get on.
You're like cool, like when,where do we go from here?
(37:17):
What do you want to do?
Speaker 2 (37:18):
so freaking lootly.
My podcast has brought in somany clients, even if they like
here, I'll give you a funnel howthings we go on my end.
So a lot of times they discoverI existed from someone else's
podcast.
I guessed it on it and they'relike, oh, she has a podcast, so
(37:41):
they'll go to mine and they'llbinge that.
That nurtures them.
And then they go to a salescall and it's almost always like
that at a sales call thismorning that closed and she had
accidentally found my podcastand booked a sales call right
from that one episode Amazing,yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:59):
Isn't that so crazy?
Speaker 2 (38:00):
right now.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
That's so cool.
I mean truly, like you know,not to go down a rabbit hole of
podcasting, but people oftenlook at podcasting as like, oh,
I want to monetize the podcastwith an ad, or I want to
monetize it with a sponsorship,and really there's so many ways
to monetize your podcast and thebest way is when it's for free
and you're literally monetizingyour own services through your
podcast, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Absolutely.
I have sponsors on my show andsometimes I'll decline sponsors
because I have a campaign and Iwant to be pitching my thing.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Yeah, exactly, I mean it's just as valuable at the
end of the day.
Yeah, no more.
More valuable.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
My sponsors aren't paying as much.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
True.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
All right.
How can people work with you?
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Yeah, so our main service is social media
management.
So, in that we reallyspecialize in creating high
converting content.
What we do is work with brandsfrom top to bottom on their
marketing campaigns.
We film the content, we createthe posts, really deeply engage
with our audience and utilizethe data to optimize that
(39:15):
content and that customerjourney for your audience on
social consistently, everysingle week.
It's something we're sopassionate about because, as
we've said a million times,there's just an unlimited amount
of opportunity on social.
So, yeah, if you're looking forsocial media management, if
you're looking for done for youservices, we're you know, I'd
love to talk, we're definitely agreat fit for that, and we also
(39:37):
have a podcast it's called StopScrolling, start Scaling, where
we do a lot of fun marketingtips and tricks, which is, you
know, along the same lines oftoday's conversation as well,
I'm going to subscribe and I'llmake sure that that's in the
show notes too.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
That service sounds incredibly valuable.
There are so many social mediamanagers that don't do the
engagement aspect of it and justdo the creation and that, like,
90% of the success is on theengagement aspect of it.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
I love that you said that, because it is like what I
say every single day.
You know, like five years ago,content did the heavy lifting
for us and it was enough to justpost a couple of times a week,
and that is just not the caseanymore.
You know, having a communitythat is like bought into your
mission, that engages with yourcontent, that watches your
stories and wants to see what'scoming up for you, is the
(40:34):
difference between getting yourcontent seen and converting it
rather than just posting intothe void.
So it's a massive part of whatwe do and we actually don't
offer social media managementpackages without engagement,
because it is that important tothe success of the overall
marketing strategy.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah, that's incredible.
All right, I will have the linkto your company in the show
notes, your podcast, and itsounds like Instagram is your
main channel, so I'll make sureto put that in there too.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, we are on every platform, but Instagram is my
favorite, so find us there.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
All right.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Speaker 3 (41:07):
Thank you, this is so fun.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Well, by the end of this episode, which is where we
are right now, you should havean idea of how to grow your
community on social mediawithout ads Completely organic.
Thank you so much, Emma, forjoining me this week, and if you
enjoyed this, please hit like,subscribe, comment and tell a
(41:32):
friend.
The more often that you talkabout tiny marketing, the more
often people will listen.
So if you liked it, screenshotit and share it on social.
Make sure to tag me.
I'm Sarah Noelle Block.
I mean, you know that because Isaid it right at the beginning,
but I meant that's how you canfind me on social.
Thank you again for coming.
(41:54):
I appreciate you and yeah,that's all Goodbye.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
You love all things tiny marketing.
Head down to the show notespage and sign up for the wait
list to join the tiny marketingclub, where you get to work
one-on-one with me withtrainings, feedback and pop-up
coaching that will help youscale your marketing as a B2B
(42:21):
service business.
So I'll see you over in theclub.
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