Hell to Pay

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm your host, Kara McKinney, and this is dipping point.
All hell is going to break loose. That is what
President Trump is promising Hamas if the next round of
three hostages are not released this coming Saturday, as promised.

(00:21):
It's part of the ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas
and Gaza for a war which may have already claimed
close to fifty thousand lives. The deal essentially calls for
hostages to be released in return for Palestinian prisoners, yes
including terrorists, but Hamas is now accusing Israel of firing
on Palestinians in Gaza in violation of the ceasefire. They
also claim Israel is blocking the movement of medical aid

(00:43):
and shelters into the region, as well as the return
of Palestinians to the Northern Strip. Hamas still has seventy
six hostages, forty four of whom are believed to be alive,
largely taken during the October seventh massacre. President Trump says
the next three hostages need to be freed on Saturday
by time twelve o'clock, or there will be hell to pay.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
When you say oldhell is going to break loose, are
you speaking about retaliation for me.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
You'll find out and they'll find out too. Hamas will
find out what I mean. So they're gonna find out
what I mean. These are sick people and they'll find
out what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Saturday at twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
This is the guy who took out al bag daddy
of ices and cast some solemony of Iran in surprise Striketh.
So I think Amas knows he means what he says.
This isn't Obama's red line in the sand that could
be crossed without any real issue.

Speaker 4 (01:35):
Plus, this is.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Preston Trump's Defense secretary literally doing physical training with our
troops right now in Germany. Do you think he's gonna
be m i A like Lloyd Austin was not a chance.
So unless Hamas has gone full blown suicide cult, I
know they're almost there, then they need to tread wisely.
Here joining us now to discuss all of this. And
Moore's Representative Pat Harrigan of North Carolina's tenth congressional district.

(01:57):
He also serves on the House Armed Service Is Committee. Congressman,
thanks for being here tonight.

Speaker 5 (02:03):
Kara, Thanks for having me. Great to be with you.

Speaker 4 (02:05):
Great.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
So we are hearing a lot of strong verbiage coming
from President Trump. What do you make of his threat
to Hamas when it comes to the release of the hostages.

Speaker 5 (02:13):
You know what a breath of fresh air. That's what
real leadership looks like. It's something that's been missing in
this country for four years. And look, I think, as
you pointed out, between al Baghdati who died like a
dog and cost some solomony, who was part of the IRGC,
the head of it and was killed, President Trump means
exactly what he says.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
And I think that.

Speaker 5 (02:34):
Our adversaries, particularly Hamas in this situation, would do well
to take him very seriously because they know that he
means what he says. He'll follow through.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
And you know, obviously when it comes to terrorist when
they take hostages, this is the reason why they do it.
They know that the group that they're taking the hostages
from our people who want the hostages back.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
We are people, we have a certain high moral standard,
and we don't want our people in in this case,
the Israeli hostage is being killed, being hurt for any
longer than they already have. I mean, October seventh of
twenty twenty three was so long ago, and yet Hamas
knows that, right, and so they use that against us.
They can hold these people hostage and then they can
just keep ramping up the pressure. And so many people

(03:16):
are dying because of it. And so President Trump is
telling Hamas, you know, and he's saying, you know.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
This isn't going to work on me.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
This is what terrorists do all the time, and we
need to break that grip that they have because too
many people are dying, and Hamas.

Speaker 4 (03:28):
Needs to give up these hostages, like you said, as
a breath of fresh air.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
So when it comes to our Defense secretary, we see
him over there in Germany, right and he's putting on,
I think, a good show for the rest of the
world once again meet showing that he means.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
Business as well.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
What do you make of his his physical training with
the guys over in Germany.

Speaker 6 (03:48):
I love it.

Speaker 5 (03:49):
I can tell you as a former special operator that
when senior leadership comes in and actually participates in what
you're doing, it means the world to you because it
shows you that they're willing to share in your sacrifice,
in your training. It just it says so much about
what type of a leader that Pete Higseth is, and

(04:09):
it also shows very convincingly that there has indeed been
a cultural shift in our Department of Defense. Right we
are moving back to that warrior culture, not this dei
culture that the military used to have. There's a very
substantive change that has taken place. Our service members are

(04:29):
witnessing that firsthand, and I think all of America and
all of the world should take note of it.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, you know, that's what they used to say about
fighting forces, lean mean fighting machine, and I think that's
what we're getting back to. And yes, just the visual
aspect of it tells a lot. You know, President Trump
when it comes to all of his cabinet members and
especially with Doge right, it's trimming that access.

Speaker 4 (04:50):
It's trimming the fat, the fraud.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
The abuse, the left wing patronage networks, getting rid of
all of that, getting rid of the social experiment that
was foisted upon our military, and making the government in
all of its aspects run efficiently, so again it can
be a lean, mean fighting machine. And you know, heg Seth,
he took that quite literally, completely different than the past
Defense secretaries that we've had that were so far removed

(05:13):
from the field, you know, just unfortunately living off of
all sorts of defense industry contract dollars. You know, the
big revolving door of going into government service and then
going back to those industry services, and then back and
forth and back and forth and again. It's nice to
finally see that break. And so I would like to
ask you, because you obviously have an extensive history when
it comes to serving abroad, serving our nation honorably as

(05:35):
in the military, could you explain for our audience some
of your background and how it gives you insight into
what we're talking about here tonight.

Speaker 5 (05:43):
Look, I'm a West Point graduate and the former commander
in the Special Forces, and after that I hopped into
the defense industry. My wife and I started a manufacturing company.
We manufacture weapons and munitions, and so I know this
space very very well. And look, I'll tell you this.
I got out of the military because I was sick
and tired of the politics that President Obama injected into

(06:04):
the war in Afghanistan. And that type of mentality leads
to us losing, as we saw with President Biden's disastrous
withdrawal from Afghanistan. And the world's been on fire ever
since that happened. And so President Trump, Secretary of Hegseth
are doing their very best that they can do to
change the course to arrest that shift away from freedom

(06:28):
and democracy, free markets and towards authoritarianism and chaos. And
that starts by example, right, And I think President Trump
and Secretary hig Seth are very clearly leading by example here.
This is what real leadership looks like, both from my
messaging as well as a foreign policy perspective. And then

(06:49):
just you know, being a regular old you know guy
that yes, at one part of it he's Secretary of Defense,
he's also.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
A human being just like everybody else.

Speaker 5 (07:01):
And it stinks to get up at four thirty in
the morning when it's dark and it's raining outside like
that picture. It's very difficult to do that. It takes discipline.
It's so much easier to talk about, you know, perceived
wrongs in our culture at ten thirty in the morning
over a cup of coffee. But they're actually now really
putting in the hard work to turn our military around.
And I'm so proud to see that.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, discipline, that's one of those words, along with duty
and responsibility, obligation that it seems our culture on Moss
has forgotten over these last few years, but thankfully they're
being brought back. So do you think that the signals
at President Trump, his Defense Secretary and the like are
really you know, expressing right now and putting onto the
world stage and especially here at home. Do you think
that that is part of the reason why we're seeing

(07:43):
recruitment now, especially when it comes to the army, start
to surge once again.

Speaker 5 (07:47):
Yeah, there's no question about it. Look, I think everybody
saw that our December and January numbers were breaking records,
the ten and fifteen year recruiting records. And this is
just President Trump getting started, right. And I think you've
got understand that there's been a broad question over what
on earth are we fighting for in our military. Are
we fighting for these crazy cultural non norms that the

(08:09):
Democrats wanted to just thrust on everybody, or are we
actually fighting for those time tested concepts, the things that
we've historically always fought for, always rallied around the flag for.
And I think that that answer has come loud and
clear with President Trump's second administration, and people are flocking

(08:30):
to recruiting stations to sign up for a military that
will not only be a fun military to be a
part of it will be one of the most consequential
militaries in the history of the United States in the
free world. That's why people are showing up.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Hey, you know one of the diseases that our government
has been so infected with, and of course it comes
from the left wing Marxist and I know why they
do it. It just it sucks to live through. But
obviously the reason why they inject this disease of self
loathing and self hatred so right they can break run
up into these pieces, have one fights against each other
and in the rubble, the left things that they can

(09:05):
rebuild the whole nation in the way that they want
it to look like Ryan, that they can have the
power that they want. And so I use that to
say that I'm glad to see the Defense Secretary Hegseth.
He was just announcing on x as well. He says,
Fort Bragg is back. So Fort Braggett had its name
changed to Fort Liberty under Biden. Again, back through the
self hating, self loathing of our nation. It's history, the good,

(09:26):
the bad, and the ugly. But we have the new
Defense Secretary, and he says in North Carolina, Fort Bragg
will come back. However, instead of it now being named
for the Confederate general, it will be named for a
man who served during World War Two, and I have
here His name was Private first Class Roland Bragg. He
earned a silver Star and a purple Heart at the
Battle of the Bulge. So what do you make of this,

(09:48):
of once again being proud of our history instead of what,
like I was talking about earlier, a lot of the
self loathing that we've come to see as normal in DC.

Speaker 5 (09:56):
Look, I think Secretary Heggseth took the steps that were
within his power an authority to take. I think that
most people look back to our nation's history and say, look,
our history is our history. It's not something that you
can just whitewash and right over. And so you've got
to take everything in the historical context. And we've got
to remember that all of these bases throughout the South

(10:17):
were named for Confederate generals in the aftermath of the
Civil War. It was part of the reconciliation process. And
so while Secretary Higgsseth has done I think a very
good thing by renaming Fort Bragg because look, in the
veteran community, when veterans talk to currently serving military members.

Speaker 6 (10:36):
They don't even know.

Speaker 5 (10:37):
What bases they're talking about because nobody knows the nomenclature anymore.
It's a total disaster. And so getting it back to
the way that it's been for a hundred years is awesome.
But we've got to take it all the way across
the finish line. That takes some Congressional action, and if
the President brings that to Congress, I will absolutely be
in line. We need to change all these bases names back,

(10:58):
not just Fort Bragg.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
Congressman.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Given that I do want to float this by you,
you can tell me if I'm off base or not.
But here are some of my thoughts. When we're talking
about renaming Confederate bases or bases that carried the name
of pass Confederate soldiers and generals, as we saw under
Biden Is at the time, like you said, a law
of those names came out. It came about in the
aftermath of the Civil War. So after the Civil War

(11:23):
had happened, we had the president Ulysses S. Grant, right,
he brought the Union to victory in the Civil War.
He later becomes president, and when he then dies, I
believe two or three of his pallbearers had actually been
Confederate soldiers and generals in the war yep. And then
so President Abraham Lincoln, his wife Mary Todd Lincoln. She
had brothers who were serving under arms for the Confederacy.

(11:47):
We had General Robert E. Lee that after Applematox when
they laid down their arms. In fact, Grant let him
carry out his sword and I believe his horse and
everything else.

Speaker 4 (11:55):
They could have completely humiliated the South.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
And some would say maybe Sherman did so with his march,
but they could have done it more so, but they didn't.
And so Roberty Lee, young Confederate men would come to
him for years after the war. He always had an
open door policy. One man said, Hey, I lost three
of my four brothers, they died, and you want me
to take up amnesty and go become an American again?
Like are you crazy? And Roberty Lee said, yes, the

(12:18):
South needs her boys. The South is back under the Union,
and that's just the way it is. He could have
led an insurgency guerrilla warfare for years, but he didn't.
And so there's a lot of lessons to be learned
there about how the nation brought itself back together, even
as late as the nineteen thirties with FDR. He was
still giving honors out to the Blue and the Gray,

(12:38):
the soldiers from both sides, the veterans of both sides.
And yet today you have people born literally just yesterday,
and they can't talk about the Confederacy without nothing but
victriol and vehemence coming out of their mouth. When the guys,
like I said, back in the day, when the bodies
are still warm, the blood was still in the fields,
they could talk about it in a more civil manner
than we do today. My point, then, here is this

(12:59):
that the reason why the left talks about the Confederacy
and the way that they do, that there is no reconciliation,
that they have nothing but animous and hatred towards those
who serve for the Confederacy. That they won't even say, oh,
maybe they were misguided, that they were just pure evil,
that they were essentially a hitler, but on our soil.
The reason is because what do they say that Republicans
are the neo Confederacy. Republicans are the Confederacy now of

(13:20):
the South, and they have to be annihilated completely, salt
the earth, never let them grow again, that there will
be no reconciliation. And we see your own colleagues right now, right,
Democrat colleagues in the House, and the scent, and what.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
Are they doing.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
They're saying we are at war all because Russell and
Trump found their little funding buttons and he's snipping those
cores right and left. But they're saying, once again, we
are at war. So I know I threw a lot
out there, But what do you think of some of
my thoughts there on why they talk about the Confederacy
and the way they do, and how that leads to
the politics of even right now of today.

Speaker 5 (13:53):
You know, Kara, I think you're exactly right, and I
think across the board we should be rejecting revisionist history.
It's not respectful of the history that we have, much
of which is great history.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Right.

Speaker 6 (14:05):
We're not perfect.

Speaker 5 (14:06):
We're always trying to move towards a more perfect union
in this country. But I think that one of the
great stories of American history is the one that you
reference with Ulysses S. Grant at his funeral, his pallbearers,
half of them were Confederates. And so we've got to
understand that, yes, we've had very trying times in this country,
but we've been able to reconcile. That's part of what

(14:28):
makes America great is our ability to have these great
divisive moments throughout our history. And we would say that
the Civil War was not a good moment, but it
was a moment of significance, right. But we were able
to come back after that and become an even stronger
nation moving forward in the same direction, becoming more perfect
every day of our existence. And that's always going to

(14:51):
be a long trajectory. But we have to understand our history.
We have to appreciate our legacy, or we are doomed
to make the same mistakes. I think that President Trump
Secretary heggset there on the right track here with respect
to honoring our military history and the true spirit behind it.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Roving bands of themes are now scoping out cafes to
steal eggs from. That's how much of a luxury good
they are these days. Details when we come back.

Speaker 7 (15:18):
Into watch an live on cloudtv dot com and see
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dot com today. That's klowd tv dot com Today.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
Welcome back to tipping point. I'm your host, Kara McKinney.
Eggs really are luxury goods now. The fact that burglar
showed up in a white van in the dead of night,
braving the snow in order to steal five hundred of
them from a cafe in Seattle, Washington pretty much steals
the deal. Eggs are now like Air Jordan's or Ulti
beauty products, which are what you normally think of when

(16:01):
it comes to this sort of coordinated heist. Yes, the
burglars of this cafe stole some other food as well,
like ground beef, but it was the eggs they targeted.

Speaker 4 (16:09):
So what's going on here?

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Well, not literally justin Seattle, but broadly speaking, what's going on?
I know we've been told that bird flu met the
bio administration had to order like one hundred million chicken
slaughtered over these past few years, leading to a shortage
and as we know, low supply high demand means us
grumpy customers selling out more than we're used to.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
What else is going on?

Speaker 1 (16:30):
Joining us now to discuss as data expert Justin hartbyfounder
of rationalground dot com.

Speaker 4 (16:35):
Justin, thanks for being here tonight, Kara.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Great to be with you. Great to see you again. Look,
I've gotten nine kids. Eggs are super expensive. We go
through so many of them right now. I know your
little one probably isn't downing the eggs just yet. But
this is a trifecta of some real significant issues in
the economy that have happened over the last four years
thanks to Bidenomics. The first one was is that the

(17:00):
government money's pigot was so large and so voloboos at
the beginning of twenty twenty one that they gave everyone income.
It increased the average American's income by about twenty percent,
which of course created this fake boom. The supply and
demand side equation was off balance, which in turn created inflation.

(17:25):
Everything got expensive, including the stuff that transports the eggs,
the stuff that houses the chickens, the stuff that they
used to breed the chickens and feed the chickens. And
that is the first core component of inflation. But the
other two were right around the corner. The second one
was the government's bigot turned off, and now you can't
afford that, And meanwhile jobs are becoming less plentiful and

(17:49):
people are nervous about those things. On top of that, government,
state level executive orders in California, Utah, and several other
states noted that we will only source ethically treated chickens
in the laying of eggs, which of course limited the
supply of what you can get to. And then Biden

(18:10):
had the foresight, because of the bird flu, to coal
millions and millions upon millions of farms of chicken. And
thus we are at the beholden quest of Bidenomics in
a rut.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, like you said, my little baby, she's a little
too young yet for eggs. I know my nephew actually
he's only two weeks older than my baby, and he's
already eating the scrambled eggs. Maybe I actually get my
baby on that, or actually maybe not, Maybe hold back
a little bit.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
It is quite pricey.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
I happen to just buy a lot of eggs because
I like to make a lot of food that has eggs.
It's you know, it's healthy, it's easy to make, and
it tastes delicious. You get a lot of protein. But
you know, as we're talking about it, it's very expensive
these days. A lot of stores you go to, you
they're just pretty much is no or no cartons left.
Sometimes you have to open and the carton that are
left have cracked eggs and the like.

Speaker 4 (18:58):
So there's a lot going on.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
And you mentioned some deep issues that have been going
on in the economy for a while. And I know
everyone's excited President Trump's back in office. He has big
plans for our economy. But you know, unfortunately our economic
cycles they lag behind things that choices that were made,
decisions that were made even a year or two plus
years ago. So even COVID is still having its effects.
So as President Trump and others have worn there, there

(19:21):
still will be some lag time and some issues as
things hopefully start to write themselves. But I do say
all of that to then ask you you were mentioning
with the trifecta that we see going on, issues happening abroad,
that there could be maybe even global recession on the horizon.
I know, we kind of dipped into that territory under
Biden in the former Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen kind of

(19:45):
rewrote the definition of a recession to try and you know,
skirt around that. But when you look at the global
horizon and what's going on now, might we see a
dip like that before things get better?

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yes, most definitely be glad that you're not in Germany,
Japan or in China. They're seeing some mighty catastrophic economic winds.
For the first time. In Germany, Volkswagen let go of
employees unheard of, unheard of in that sector. There. The
automotive industry, if you recall even just a year and

(20:17):
a half ago, which could sell and resell cars for
more after they came off the lot, is now struggling
to get rid of all these cars. You might recall
all those ships that were stuck off the shore of
Los Angeles Port in twenty twenty one and twenty twenty
two as these massive waves of supply started making their

(20:38):
way into the United States. Well, now the warehouses is full.
As you walk down the aisles of Best Buy, you
will see it's line by massive, massive TVs, one after
another because they can't get rid of them because there's
an economic downturn. The government projects that this year in
twenty twenty five United States citizens win, we'll consume the

(21:01):
equivalent of gas that we had back in twenty nineteen.
That means absolutely zero growth. And that's what happened. Our
incomes went up artificially by twenty percent in twenty twenty one,
and then they fell once the government spigoturned off back
to twenty nineteen levels. We're going to see I think
a big headwind. The most recent job support that came

(21:23):
out adjusted every single month downward. They were hiding the decline,
and now we're facing what is basically a globally synchronized recession,
and that may be coming here very quickly. So I
hope that President Trump is well aware and well apprized
of this and how to handle that, because he was
given a rotten a.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
That was glover. That was glover.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
I was going to ask you earlier about the egg
prices in your thoughts. I was gonna say, take a
crack at it, but you beat me first to the
egg punt.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
So as we're talking about a lot going on, as there.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Always is in the world, what am I saying? There's
never just an easy day ride, especially in this job,
but talking about some of this economic turmoil and shifts
and changes, especially when it comes to big companies that
have put down roots in certain areas for a long time.
I'm thinking right now of Chevron, right. I believe it
came out of California's eighteen seventy six oil boom. They've
been in the state for a long time. A few

(22:19):
months ago they told the California Governor Gavin Newsom, they said, Hey,
we're moving our HQ, our headquarters down to Texas where
they actually appreciate us. No more for you in California
because he don't appreciate us, and the CEO when he
went to text all of that to Governor Newsom, Newsom
basically said, I don't care. Whatever your big news is,
you don't have to tell me. I don't mind, and
so he kept kind of giving them bad press as well.

(22:41):
So first, before we get into some of the details,
talked to us about this the shift that we're seeing
from Chevron, because the Wall Street Journal now has a
new big expos on it right now as they move
from California and moved their HQ down to Texas.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Look, this is a very sad scene. I have a
picture on my desktop that shows the Venice Beaches one
hundred years ago, and there were oil wells on the
beaches of Venice Beach right there south of Santa Monica,
and it was an amazing sight to behold. And you
could see that all the way up and down the coast.
As these oil refineries found themselves in the midst of

(23:17):
this incredible moment. Chevron, with its industries there in La
right south for example of lax has found it to
do very very hard business in California. It's a terrible
business environment. And when you project to the future, as
Governor Newsom has outlawed the sale of gas cars by

(23:38):
twenty thirty five, that's an incredibly disruptive, terrible moment to
take it upon and puts it on the heads of
us Californians who do have to pay extra because of
all the taxes that are coming into that. Meanwhile, the
government is running straight into red after having a budget
surplus that they blew through. And while they say, well,

(23:59):
we're still in I will note the weather predicts thirty
to sixty inches and the Daughner Pass up at Tahoe today.
The end of snow, as Gavin Newsome and many liberals
once touted, is not a thing, and we need gas
to keep ourselves warm.

Speaker 4 (24:14):
That we do.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
And like you talk about the droughts and stuff. I've
been in California my whole life. I'm a native of
southern California. We all know they come, especially every couple
of years, and yet California, no matter how many times
we vote on certain propositions, you know, to create, you know,
everything that we need to catch the water, hold the
water so it doesn't run off all into the ocean,
so that we can use it in bad times, they just.

Speaker 4 (24:36):
Never do it.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
And then, surprise, surprise, when wildfires or drought happens, us
Californians get stuck with the bill because you're just standing
there with a hose on your front lon and Newsom
basically pulls up and says, that's not allowed. So we
in California where we're very used to this, unfortunately, and
this Wall Street Journal expos it's very interesting to me
just how nasty Newsome was to Chevron behind the scenes.

(24:57):
And I'm no chill right for any big company, but
you know, these companies, they do provide a lot of jobs,
and they provide something very necessary for us here in California.
So maybe be a little bit nicer when you don't
when you don't have to be so crude, I guess
so Governor Knewsom in this expose at least, is being
accused of of telling the CEO when he wasn't taking
his calls when the guy was trying to tell him, Hey,

(25:19):
I'm gonna leave your estate because of everything you just
laid out for us, justin But you know, at the
same time, it seems that Newsom was accusing Chevron of
all the deaths, the eighty five deaths. We saw him
paradise California im back in those twenty eighteen wildfires, as
if all of California's mismanagement when it comes to forestry
and water and the like, as if that's in play
a role. And also PG and E that actually took

(25:40):
the fall for Core and pleaded guilty right to in
voluntary manslaughter, but their donors to New m so he
didn't come out publicly and lambassed them, but he came
after Chevron and said they should have put more money, time,
and energy into low carbon energy. It's so bizarre because,
at least in my mind, look at what New York
did when they chased out their their tax base, right

(26:01):
they all took up it in Florida. Is new someone
on a similar path of destruction, and yet he wants
to be the face of the Democrat Party.

Speaker 4 (26:08):
So I don't see what's going on here.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
It's the blind leading the blind, or perhaps just the
people who like to be in the donkey cart leading
people in donkey carts, because that's what will be left with.
They will not be enough energy to supply the amount
of cars electric vehicles that governor knews some four seas,
especially if he doesn't start building up the infrastructure to

(26:32):
get it. Electricity will just be too far fetched to
make that happen. And again electric solar. All these different
ideas are interesting wind power, but they have their drawbacks
in dramatic ways, and it seems like he has what's
called SEP someone else's problem syndrome. He doesn't want to

(26:52):
take the call for the CEO chevron because he doesn't
want to deal with the problems that that persists and
that that brings to the table, which is is the
ignorance of his own ideology that is running this state
into the ground.

Speaker 4 (27:06):
You know.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Also, now it's not just the headquarters, but the latest
news is they might even pull out some of their
refineries as well, and that would just be the final
nail in the coffin all those jobs, everything that goes
into it. The price of gas would once again jump
here in California. I mean, it's it's just quite literally insane.
But you know, the other interesting point I want to

(27:27):
end on this note and leave you with this last
word here is that the Chevron CEO, at least again
in this Wall Street Journal expose that when all of
this was coming down the pike in California, the legislation
with global warming and the rest as you were, or
climate change as they call it, right and everything else,
that's really throttling the industry for no real tangible benefits.

(27:49):
That he was saying that it's basically akin to socialist
central planning. And look at how social estates always turn out.
They always turn out a complete mess. And yet it
seems Newsome as just trying to head straight down on
that path here in California. So do see some of
those similarities that the Chevron CEO was pointing out.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Absolutely, Look, California is the fifth largest economy in the world.
If it was its own country, I have a feeling
that's going to fall far down that rung very quickly,
and let's get pull itself together. It has enormous crises
that it must pull up its bootstraps from now. We
hear in California, I'm a native Californian as well. My

(28:28):
wife goes back three generations here. We love this state,
we want to see it succeed. We think we have
an opportunity to make some significant changes, and we may
have to hit rock bottom to get there. I think
Governor Newsom is just blind to the effects of his
policies and what they're going to enact. Thankfully, we have
President Trump of the White House, and I think he's
scored some really significant points here with the citizens who

(28:51):
understand that they're in a no win situation as long
as Governor Newsom remains our governor.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
President Trump has a tall order of making medicine more
affordable for Americans, but my next guest says she.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
Has a blueprint for them to use. Details when we
come back into.

Speaker 7 (29:09):
Watch OAN Live on cloudtv dot com and see what
you're missing. Download the cloud tv app and watch One
America News Network wherever you go. Visit klowd tv dot
com Today. That's klowd tv dot com Today.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Welcome back to Tipping Point. I'm your host, Kara McKinney.
How do we make medicine affordable for all Americans and
without outsourcing their production to nations like India? Where quality
control has been questionable at best, as our coverage of
numerous recalls can attest to, and which also makes us
vulnerable to supply chain disruptions. Additionally, how do we make
sure that America maintains its pharmaceutical supremacy in an age

(29:50):
of regulatory capture where there is a giant revolving door
between big form of companies and the federal agencies meant
to regulate them, stifling fresh ideas and vigorous research. We
also must be wary, though, of scientism, the worship of
those in lab codes, even when they're wrong, as we
saw during COVID. It's a tight rope for President Trump
to walk these next four years. What our next guest

(30:11):
is here to offer her path forward, joining us now
to discuss is Sally Pipes, the president and CEO of
the Pacific Research Institute. She's also the author of the
new book The World's Medicine Chest, How America Achieved Pharmaceutical
Supremacy and How to Keep It, which hit bookshelves on
the fourth of this month. Sally, thanks for being here tonight.

Speaker 6 (30:31):
Thank you, Kara, nice to be with you.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
So sketch out for us how the US achieved pharmaceutical
supremacy in the first place, and also how you would
define that term pharmaceutical supremacy.

Speaker 8 (30:43):
Right, so back in the nineteen seventies, well, if you
go back to the seventeen hundreds and the eighteen hundreds,
you know, the smallpox vaccine was developed in England in
the seventeen hundreds and then of course penicillin in the
UK in the eighteen hundreds. You know, back so back
in the day, Europe was where all the research and
development and all of the new pharmaceuticals were developed, and

(31:07):
very little was done in the United States. But moving
ahead through World War II, when actually the manufacturers of
penicillin moved to the US because they couldn't. All the
money in the Europe was going into the war effort,
and that started the movement to the United States being
the world leader in pharmaceutical research. So, if you fast

(31:29):
forward to two thousand and five, all countries in Europe
had price controls and their pharmaceuticals as a result, most
of the big pharmaceutical companies because if you have price controls,
it's very expensive to produce a drug two point eight
billion from an idea to bring it on market takes
about twelve years and only one in ten drugs.

Speaker 6 (31:48):
Makes it.

Speaker 8 (31:49):
So these big companies, when they were subject to price controls,
moved their R and D to the US. So you've
got Roach, you've got Glaxol, smith Kline, you've got any
number of these big companies, the Novo nortists that all
moved to the US. So we in America, two thirds
of the new drugs produced are all produced in the
United States because we don't have price controls. Although, as

(32:11):
you know, under the Biden administration, under the Inflation Reduction
Act in twenty twenty two, Biden signed into law a
program which would start price controls on pharmaceuticals under Medicare
Part D with ten drugs beginning in January twenty twenty six.
So you know, my job is to explain to Americans
all about the pharmaceutical industry why we became the supreme leader.

(32:35):
We became supreme because of other countries introducing wage and
price controls and destroying that whole incentive for a very
expensive product.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
So as we're talking about price control seemed to really
be the next point here, right, that stifle so much
of the innovation and the growth and the like that
we see in the pharmaceutical industry, you know, an industry
responsible for saving so many of us. I myself, right,
I'm dealing with my own severe health issues. I have
a blood clot in my brain, which still sounds so

(33:06):
strange to say, right, something I've been living with now
for a few months. Didn't get the best of results
of my latest brain scan. It's still it's still there
and the main chunk of it is still completely unchanged
since November, so as you can say, I'm still a
little upset, but you know, and I've lost family members,
like we all have right to diseases like cancer and
the like, and it's always the hope that there'll be

(33:28):
a new medicine, there'll be something new to try that
could save your loved ones. So it's so important for
all of us. It does impact and touch our lives.
I know there's the accesses, right RFK Junior talks about
the accesses of the pharmaceutical companies, but their main job
is very important for us. And so you're talking about
the price control, So how did that start over in

(33:48):
Europe as you're talking about World War Two? I know
it shifted the focus, right, and then I would think
that the price controls probably started after World War Two.

Speaker 4 (33:56):
How did those come into effect?

Speaker 1 (33:57):
What was the arguments for them and how did that
start to change the landscape over there?

Speaker 8 (34:03):
Well, so they started when you know, government, you know,
thought that they wanted to be the doctor and the
healthcare service for all of England of Europe. And so
you know, the UK founded the National Health Service in
nineteen forty eight, and of course the National Health Service.
If you look today at the NHS, there are over

(34:24):
eight million Brits who are on a waiting list to
get care. It's a complete disaster. The Royal family of
course uses private health care because they allow private care,
and about thirteen percent of Brits now have private care.
In countries like Germany and France, they introduced started introducing
price controls as well. And so I said, by two
thousand and four, all of these countries had price controls.

(34:46):
There's no incentive to do the research and development, all
the innovation that is necessary to do. So they destroyed
a very important industry and these firms are now.

Speaker 6 (34:58):
Doing their r and D in our country.

Speaker 8 (35:00):
If you look at a country like Canada, where I'm from,
you know, the government took over the healthcare system in
nineteen eighty four, there's no private medicine like there is
in the UK, and of course in Canada, while pharmaceuticals
aren't under the Medicare program, the Patented Medicines Prices Review
Board there decides when a US pharmaceutical is offering a

(35:21):
new drug. The Patented medicinees Prices Review Board decides whether
even at a lower price, they're getting it at a
discounted price, if it's even affordable for the provinces to
put on their formulary, and in many cases, well every
day there's between fifteen hundred and two thousand active drug
shortages in Canada, and the drugs that are approved are

(35:42):
proved two hundred and sixty nine days later than they
are here. And my own mother died from colon cancer
because of the government control the cost they so they
have waiting lists. So last year the Fraser Institute showed
the average weight from seeing a primary care doc in
Canada to seeing a specialist was thirty weeks. That's well
over half a year. So do we want that to

(36:04):
happen in this country? Bernie Sanders does, But I think
that my job is to educate Americans on what it
means when government is totally in control of your healthcare
and your drugs and the kinds of surgeries and tests
that you can get.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
You know, when it comes to these price controls, it
may sound good, right because when we think about medics
and we think about skyrocketing costs. So what are the
arguments in favor of price controls and then how would
you then go through and kind of debunk them.

Speaker 8 (36:32):
Well, so you have you know Bernie Sanders, former chairman
of the Senate Help Committee, who, as I call him,
the pied piper of single payer and getting price controls
in on drugs. I mean when he appears on television,
he talks about the list price of drugs. So if
you have clots, I don't know, but maybe in your
brain you're probably taking Bristol Myers with Eloquist, which is

(36:56):
the latest drug it's still under patent to produce or
and I hope your clots go away. They work for
me in my lungs. So I'm a huge Eloquest fan.
And the fact that I'm not on some old drug
that is not as effective, So you know, they Bernie
Sanders talks about, well, Eloquest costs six hundred and ninety
dollars a month, and who can afford that?

Speaker 6 (37:18):
Will?

Speaker 8 (37:18):
Very few people in this country pay the list price
that we all pay the net price. So the net
price is the list price, less discounts and rebates that
are that happen all the time. And most people in
America get their pharmacy, their drugs through their employer based
healthcare plan. So as a friend of mine in New

(37:40):
York just told me he has leukemia, and so they're
trying to boost his red blood cell count, but in
the meantime they've been killing his white count. And so
he's on a drug called Granite, which is five thousand
dollars a shot twice a week, ten thousand a week,
so times four weeks, forty thousand. He gets his statement
from the insurer and it says the cost of your

(38:00):
treatment forty thousand a month. He pays absolutely zero because
his Medicare and his supplemental insurance totally cover the cost.
So what Bernie Sanders is doing is scaring Americans on
what the real cost is. And as you know, if
you have a great drug, whether it's it's an eloquest,
and if you had a stroke and you end up

(38:21):
in the hospital and the surgery is very very expensive.
So if drugs that have these great treatments for us,
they keep us out of hospitals, they allow us to
continue to work like you and I are. So I
think it's very very important. One of the big negative
players in the whole drug pricing issue is are the PBMs.
And it's not a household name, but they're pharmaceutical benefit managers.

(38:45):
They are the middlemen that serve between the insurance company
and the drug companies. They negotiate the discounts and rebates.
They want to keep the price as high as they
can so that there the money that they get go
to them is a larger amount and same to the
insurance company. In the meantime, these discounts and discount of

(39:06):
prices should be going to the patients, not to the
you know, Express Scripts and care CBS, care Mark.

Speaker 6 (39:13):
And to opt in which is part of United Healthcare.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Now that definitely makes a lot of sense, so much,
I'll just admit it goes.

Speaker 4 (39:22):
Over my head. I need to get better.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
I've been trying to listen to podcasts and to read
up like you're talking about some of these middle men
with the PBMs and all the rest, But I'm really
happy to have you here, so I can, you know,
talk to someone who has the expertise and these man
in these matters, and like you're talking about Aliquis, I know, right,
I'm all my neurologists, the ones I set the hospital
and the one i'm with now, they love it, they
stand by it. I guess that just means my blood

(39:44):
clot is moderate to severe because it's taken much much
longer than they thought. I'm coming up on the six
month mark and they said, oh, one to six months
it will be gone. Well it's still there. It's quite
a large show. I guess it might take longer. But
that's just me and my own personal nonsense. I'm sure
you were thus are a little bored of that store.
But I do want to ask you about possible solutions
that you propose in this book. So, as we're talking

(40:06):
about your book here tonight, you talked about some changes
to the FDA and others that could be made. So
what are some solutions that you would offer if you
had President Trump's.

Speaker 6 (40:14):
Ear right exactly?

Speaker 8 (40:17):
Well, as I've been in the healthcare fighting for healthcare
reform and doctor patient relationships since nineteen eighty eight, I've
been around a long time, I've seen a lot, and
one of the big reforms would be reforming the FDA,
the Food and Drug Administration. And so the twenty first
Century Cures Act, which came into law in twenty sixteen,
calls on the FDA to expedite and modernize its review process.

(40:40):
As you've probably heard, so many great drugs that are
out there, and the process is so slow that a
lot of people don't have access to these new drugs.
So originally the FDA was about safety, and Milton Friedman,
the Nobel Laureate in economics who was my mentor, said,
you know, we'll never get rid of the FDA, but
if it only could go back to being about safety
drug you know, and it did a great job with

(41:01):
solidamide identifying you know, that that was not a good
drug for pregnant young mothers. But it's all moved to effectiveness,
and so this is a very slow process and it's
denying people patients from access to some of the greatest
new research that is out there. So reforming the FDA.

Speaker 6 (41:20):
Is very important.

Speaker 8 (41:22):
And I'm hoping that Marty McCrary from Johns Hopkins will
be confirmed as a Secretary as head of the FDA
because he can use his accelerated approval pathway to get
many of these new drugs that might help you and
your problem or my problems or whatever. And you know,
without this pathway, an accelerated pathway, it takes a long time.

Speaker 6 (41:42):
So we want to get these.

Speaker 8 (41:44):
Things through if it's going to provide a benefit to
people like you. So FDA reform is very important. Reform
of the pharmaceutical the PBMs is very very important because
those savings should be going to patients, not to middleman.

Speaker 6 (42:00):
And also the.

Speaker 8 (42:01):
Three forty three forty B drug discount program, which people
don't talk about at the dinner table. Most people don't
have a clue what it is, but the three drug
discount program was a program that came into being to
help rural hospitals with low income patients to get their
pharmaceuticals to their patients at much lower prices. Unfortunately, like
anything done by government, it's expanded tremendously and all the

(42:24):
big hospital conglomerates are now taking part in the drug
discount program. But it should be there for those people
in the rural hospitals that need access to the best drugs.
So those are a few things, and the last thing
is I'm really hoping that President Trump will urge Congress
to repeal the Inflation Reduction Act, particularly on the price

(42:47):
controls on pharmacies. Pharmaceuticals under Medicare Part D. The first
ten drugs under Part D come into the price controls
come into effect on January first next year. They just
named the fifteen drugs under Part D for the following year,
January twenty twenty seven. This is going to be a
huge nail in the coffin of our research and development.

(43:07):
We've already seen forty drug research programs have been discontinued
after IRA, and about twenty two drug trials for cancer
and important diseases have already been eliminated ended. So I
think this is the IRA PBM's three forty b FDA reform.
Those are the kinds of things that are so important

(43:27):
for healthcare system heads.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
Roll over a FEMA after millions were given out for
illegal aliens to stay in luxury hotels in direct violation
of President Trump's executive orders.

Speaker 4 (43:37):
Details when we come back.

Speaker 7 (43:38):
Into watch o An Live on cloudtv dot com and
see what you're missing. Download the cloud tv app and
watch one America News Network. Wherever you go, visit klowd
tv dot com Today. That's klowd tv dot com Today.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Welcome back to you Tipping Point. I'm your host, Kara McKinney.
FEMA told staffers to avoid houses where Trump flags were
displayed after last year's hurricanes. And there are still families
in North Carolina who are living out of tents months.

Speaker 4 (44:11):
After the storm's cleared out. That's how bad the destruction was.
But does FEMA care?

Speaker 1 (44:16):
The Federal Emergency Management Agency also thumbed its nose at
East Palestine, Ohio after the train derailment and burning of
dangerous chemicals, and to the residents of Maui after they're
devastating fires. But if you're in this country illegally, then
FEMA has no shortage of funds or aid for you.
So Elon Musk announcing on next quote, The DOS team

(44:36):
just discovered that FEMA sent fifty nine million dollars last
week to luxury hotels in New York City to house
illegal migrants. Sending this money violated the law and is
in gross insubordination to the President's executive order that money
is meant for American disaster relief. And instead is being
spent on high end hotels for illegals. A clawback demand

(44:58):
will be made today. T res coop those funds end.

Speaker 4 (45:01):
Quote.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
You know what's even worse, A lot of that money
went to the government of Pakistan, which owns the Roosevelt
Hotel in the Big Apple, where many of these illegal
immigrants are living on the taxpayer's dime. The four FEMA
employees behind this outrageous insubordination have since been fired. They
include a grant specialist, two program analysts, and even the
Chief Financial Officer of FEMA. Mary Comens is the name

(45:25):
of the now fired CFO. Joining us now to discuss
is retired Colonel John Mills, who wrote about this on
his sub stack page. He is also the author of
War against the Deep State. Colonel Mills, thanks for bringing
back tonight.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
Oh, thank you, Kara, and honor to be back with
you on your show. Thank you, Gray.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
So what do you make of this latest FEMA disaster,
if that's what you want to call it? Of what
doge is uncovering?

Speaker 9 (45:48):
Well, as soon as I saw Elon's post, I knew
this was important and just this incredible moment momentum and
moment where the doge boys and girls are finding out
financial truth on the malfeasance, what's going on.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
This is what's so important.

Speaker 9 (46:11):
We're actually shut shining light on what's going on, and
the outlays of the federal government now showing a deep
understanding of federal government budget activities. And they've identified one
thing that really shocked me and really kind of angered
me was that what they found was most of these

(46:32):
outlays went out the door with no coding to identify
where they were coming from and where they were going
to in their purpose. And we have some hue and
cry over the inspector generals being fired, and I've done
so many responded to so many Inspector General findings and
reports over the years.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
I think it's outrageous.

Speaker 9 (46:53):
If Inspector generals had not previously found that money was
going out to the door improperly coded, every one of
them should be fired. So anybody who's complaining, oh, the
inspector journals are being fired, well they should be.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
If money was going out the door with improperly coded
this is so important.

Speaker 9 (47:10):
Would you write a check without a dollar amount and
without who it was to or without a note of
what it was for?

Speaker 3 (47:19):
No normal human being would do that. That is ridiculous
and this was a gross violation.

Speaker 9 (47:25):
When I as soon as I saw Elon's first post,
I said, oh yeah, you bet, and I repost, Oh
you bet. There's going to be a callback and this
and there should be accountability. Now the news that they
actually identified the CFO, who is the who is.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
The ultimate person responsible.

Speaker 9 (47:42):
These are the all important personnel and that would not
have gone out the door without that cfo's personal knowledge.
And so you bet they were part of the uh
of the maufees and so.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
Tough on them. They better learn to follow instructions.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
That they should.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
And also it's really nice to finally see those who
do wrong. And like you said, they knew they were
doing wrong when you look at the paper trail or
the lack thereof right because they were trying to cover
their tracks.

Speaker 4 (48:11):
So they knew they were doing. What they were doing
was wrong.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
They knew it when against President Trump's executive orders, they
should be fired and thankfully they have been. I know
when it comes to borders, ar Tom Homan, right, he's
talking about how there could even be leakers within the
FBI who are leaking to to outlets like Los Angeles
Times and the like about ice rates that may be
coming up. And I know the DHS Secretary christi Nom,

(48:33):
she's hearing reports too, same thing. They're going to look
into the FBI, find out who exactly is doing what,
name and fire them. And that's the way it should be.
Do you think that's how we bring accountability back, is
that we finally started firing these people, because right, it
was always scandal after scandal with the government, but nothing
ever happened to these people.

Speaker 9 (48:49):
But now it is, well, I mean there's always been
there's some basis in law.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
We want a professional.

Speaker 9 (48:57):
Civil service corps that is separate from a political the
comings and goings of administrations. Got that this is different
and this is not. That is we have civil servants
doing whatever they want to do in violation of an order.
They were given a direct order do not send money

(49:19):
out the door, cease and desist immediately. But they just
had to sneak that fifty nine million out. And now
we've also found out that this fraud of sending money
to hotels, it was happening through HUD, through HHS and
now FEMA, and.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
This is just grotesque. So we're holding people accountable.

Speaker 9 (49:38):
That's a great thing anybody who complains about this. So
if somebody complains, so that means they're defending they're defending
money just being shot out to outer space and we
have no idea where it's going or what it's for.
As shameful that anybody would try to defend this behavior.

Speaker 4 (49:56):
It really isn't.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Democrats of course, as we've seen, they've been road testing
and that's their that's their big issue. That's the hill
they want to die on. Very bizarre rooting out fraud,
waste abuse and the like, and that's that's what they're
going to stake their claim on. But Democrats are doing
and I say more power to them. Right the American
people are are seeing it for what it is and
they're not too happy seeing that's what Democrat leaders are

(50:18):
getting their their paintings.

Speaker 4 (50:19):
And it twist about.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
So about a minute minu and a half left on
the clock, I do want to ask you, Doge, what's
uncovering with these luxury hotels and the like, and how
you know we've seen the deep state try and fight
back so far, not as not as much as we
saw during the first Trump administration. That's because Trump's doing
a great job right at stopping the insubborted nation in
its track. But do you think a lot of what
you wrote about in your book on the war against

(50:41):
the deep State is finally coming to fruition.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
So last minute to you.

Speaker 9 (50:45):
Oh absolutely, And now that Russ Fodd is confirmed at
O and B, he is going to be absolutely disciplined
about financial management and this silliness is just going to
end period full style. But this whole racket of supporting hotels.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
For illegal aliens, what a total.

Speaker 9 (51:07):
Total racket, and it's been insulting. I've been on travel
on a number of occasions and realized, oh, I'm staying
in the same hotel. Clearly we have illegal aliens. How
do I know they're illegal aliens? Well, when they're not
speaking English, when they have their doors to the hotels,
rooms open and are configured essentially like.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
Who knows what? And yeah, it's clear.

Speaker 9 (51:33):
And the whole strategy is for especially the franchise holders, Hey,
we're going to get.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
Some great money at great rates. It's going to trash
the facility.

Speaker 9 (51:43):
But then we're going to ask for a bailout to
have the whole facility recapitalized because it's been insulting in
a mess at these hotels. I've blasted several hotels and
even left one when I realized what was going on.
And so there's going to be a day in accountability.
And these franchise holders who think they've been having a
gravy train on this those days are over. And if

(52:04):
their facility goes belly up, hey too bad.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
When we come back, it's time to wrap the show,
So stay tuned.

Speaker 7 (52:15):
Watch OAN Live on cloudtv dot com and see what
you're missing. Download the cloud tv app and watch one
America News Network wherever you go. Visit klowd tv dot
com today. That's klowd tv dot com today.

Speaker 4 (52:33):
Well, and with that, I'm all out of time for tonight.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
You can follow us on x, Instagram, Truth Social, and
Facebook at tipping Point oa N or my personal account
at Nefertari Underscore twenty five. You can also watch clips
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listen to full episodes on Spotify and Apple podcasts. Make
sure to subscribe to OAAN Live and download our app
so you never have to miss a.

Speaker 4 (52:53):
Show, so he'll always thank you. Have a great night.

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