St. Thomas Becket, 2: the Martyrdom

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In this episode my co-host Dr. Jennifer Paxton and I explain the principles and personal grievances that led to the martyrdom of St. Thomas Becket and the significance of that event for Church-State relations in medieval England. We also talk about T.S. Eliot’s and Jean Anouilh’s plays about Thomas’ martyrdom, and the movies based on those plays. This is the second of a two part series. If you haven’t already done so, you might want to listen to the first episode in which Jenny and I talk about Becket’s background, his career leading up to his election as archbishop of Canterbury, and his contribution to Henry II’s efforts to restore royal authority in England after a generation of civil war.

This episodes contains audio clips from: 
"Becket" (released by Paramount, directed by Peter Glenville, starring Richard Burton and Peter O'Toole, and adapted by Edward Anhalt from a play by Jean Anouilh)

The 12th century song lamenting the exile of Thomas Becket,  "In Rama sonat gemitus," performed by Lumina Vocal Ensemble  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c30K1rQsaiI)

The Trim Jeans Theater's adaptation of T.S. Eliot's "Murder in the Cathedral" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYvz1-ThCHY)

Listen on Podurama https://podurama.com

Intro and exit music are by Alexander Nakarada

If you have questions, feel free to contact me at [e-mail]

Episode Transcript

richard abels (00:06):
Welcome to the podcast 'Tis But a Scratch
and Fiction about the MiddleAges. About three weeks ago, my
good friend and colleague,Professor Jennifer Paxton of the
Catholic University of Americajoined me in discussing St.
Thomas Becket's background, andhis rise from a cleric in the
household of Theobald,Archbishop of Canterbury, to be

(00:29):
chancellor of England under KingHenry II. Today, I'm fortunate
to have Jenny back to completethe story of England's most
famous Catholic martyr. Welcomeback, Jenny.

Jennifer Paxton (00:42):
Thank you so much for having me back. It's
always fun talking with youabout our common interest and
English medieval history, andespecially about complex people
and events such as Thomas Becketand his martyrdom. But before we
begin, my husband asked mewasn't his name Thomas â Becket?
And no, it wasn't, we owe thatto a staunch Protestant tuber

(01:06):
writer named Thomas Nash. In1596. He added the rustic "â" to
lampoon the saint.

richard abels (01:13):
To lampoon the saint? Apparently Nash didn't
know that Becket derives fromthe word for "nose," and that he
was really Thomas "beaky nose,"which should have been lampoon
enough. but Thomas a Becketstuck.

Jennifer Paxton (01:29):
It did everybody seems to know of him
as Thomas a Becket. So we leftoff the last episode with King
Henry II appointing hisChancellor Thomas Becket to
replace Thomas's first patron,Archbishop Theobald in the see
of Canterbury

richard abels (01:46):
The 1964 film "Becket," which Jenny and I will
talk about later in thisepisode, recreates the moment
that King Henry II played hereby Peter O'Toole has the
brilliant idea to appoint hisChancellor Thomas Becket, played
by Richard Burton, to be thenext Archbishop of Canterbury,

Clip from "Becket" (02:07):
Thomas, extraordinary ideas creeping
into my mind. A master strike.
I'm subtle. I'm even profound.
Oh, I'm so profound, it'smaking my head spin. (Thomas
laughs) - Are you listening tome, Thomas? - I'm listening,
My Prince. We need a newArchbishop of Canterbury. I
think there is a man we can relyon. No matter who it is, once

(02:32):
the archbishop's miter is on hishead, he will not longer be on
your side. But if thearchbishop is my man, if
Canterbury is for the king, howcould his power possibly get in
my way? My Lord, we know yourbishops. Once enthroned at
Canterbury, every one of themwill grow dizzy with power.
Not this man. - Are youlistening to me, Thomas? -

(02:54):
Mm-hmm. - You're leaving forEngland tonight. - On what
mission, My Prince? You aregoing to deliver a letter to
all the bishops of England.
Uh-huh. My royal edictnominating you, Thomas Becket,
Primate of England, Archbishopof Canterbury. My Lord,
don't do this. You have anodd way of taking good news. I

(03:17):
should think you'd betriumphant. But I... I'm not
even a priest. You're a deacon.
You can be ordained priest andconsecrated archbishop the next
day. My Lord, this frightensme. I beg of you, do not do
this. You've never disappointedme, Thomas, and you're the

(03:38):
only man I can trust.

richard abels (03:40):
I love this scene. I love it when Henry
says, Thomas, you have neverdisappointed me before. And
Thomas is thinking, yes, myPrince, but I was never
Archbishop of Canterbury before.
Cinematically, the sceneeffectively foreshadows the
future conflict between the twomen and the sense of betrayal
that King Henry II wouldexperience when his once loyal

(04:03):
Chancellor became his adversaryas Archbishop. It also signals
to the movie going audience thatThomas's inner conflict between
his loyalty and friendship forthe king and his desire to serve
God--and both are real--is goingto be resolved in favor of God
and the church. The audience hasalready been keyed to Becket's

(04:26):
pangs of conscience, althoughHenry is completely oblivious to
them.

Jennifer Paxton (04:33):
Now, I love the movie "Becket," but historians
are always spoilsports when itcomes to historical movies.

richard abels (04:39):
Yeah, they are, aren't they?

Jennifer Paxton (04:40):
And I have to point out that as effective
theater as this is, it's nothistory. Theobald died on April
18 1161. Becket was elected bythe monks of Canterbury to
succeed Theolbald, a year later

richard abels (04:55):
a full year later,

Jennifer Paxton (04:56):
which is not that atypical. There were often
fairly long vacancies in betweenarchbishops and because of the
way that the appointments workedand you would the king would get
to take the money and see inbetween. So he's not elected
until May of 1162. And he wasordained a priest on June 2. So

(05:18):
he was not even actually apriest,

richard abels (05:20):
No, he wasn't.
But he was archdeacon ofCanterbury, as well as being
Chancellor. But the problem isyou can't become a bishop unless
you're first a priest.
Fortunately, there was no timerequirement on how long you had
to be a priest.

Jennifer Paxton (05:37):
No, there were a lot of emergency priestly the
consecrations before peoplebecame bishops, not a lot, but
there certainly were some. So hewas ordained a priest on June 2
and consecrated Archbishop ofCanterbury by Bishop Henry of
Winchester the following day.
Now Henry's decision to nominateThomas was not a spur of the
moment thing. The king was notin a rush to fill the

(06:01):
archiepiscopal See. It actuallycould be kind of fun to have no
Archbishop for a little bit.

Richard Abels (06:07):
Yeah, because you don't have to worry about a
primate.

Jennifer Paxton (06:10):
Yeah, yeah. You can kind of free your hand.

richard abels (06:12):
Yeah,

Jennifer Paxton (06:13):
so members of the king's court apparently were
notified that Henry intended toappoint Thomas before Thomas
knew. Becket's biographerWilliam fitzStephen relates that
while Becket was recovering froma serious illness in the
hospital of the Church of StGervais, he was visited by the
prior of the Augustinian Abbeyat Leicester. The prior, who had

(06:34):
come from the king's court,teased Thomas about the way he
dressed like a noble. So what hesaid is, "'What's this?' the
prior joked. 'So you go in forcapes with sleeves now just like
fowlers when carrying hawks, andyou, a clerk--unique, I know but
plural in your benefices

richard abels (06:53):
Yeah,

Jennifer Paxton (06:54):
Archdeacon of Canterbury, Dean of Hastings,
Provost of York, canon here andcanon there, custodian of the
archbishopric. And, as courtrumor has it, Archbishop to
be.'" End of quote. So Becketsupposedly responded a lot like
he did in the movie byprotesting that he knew at least

(07:14):
three priests in England, whomhe would rather see as
Archbishop. Quote, "For if itshould come about that I am
promoted. I know the King sowell, indeed inside out, that I
would either have to lose hisfavor or god forbid, neglect my
duty to the Almighty." End ofquote.

richard abels (07:35):
you can never be sure that a story like this is
actually true. WillilamfitzStephen, like Becket's other
early biographers, wrote afterthe Archbishop's death. In other
words, he wrote with the benefitof hindsight. He knew that
Thomas's elevation would bringthem into conflict with the
king, but that Thomas claimed toknow Henry "inside out" sounds

(07:55):
to me, like something Becketmight well have said and of all
of Becket's biographers, WilliamfitzStephen was best positioned
to report court gossip. BeforeThomas's elevation to the
archbishopric, William had beena royal clerk in the king's
chancery, and after Becket'sdeath, he appears to have

(08:15):
returned to royal service. Hehad a foot in both camps. What
the movie gets right is HenryII's motivation in choosing
Becket Becket's mainqualification, in Henry's eyes
at least, was his loyalty andhis devotion, and that loyalty
and devotion and service that hehad given him as Chancellor. He

(08:38):
expected that Becket wouldcontinue to promote royal policy
as Archbishop and be Henry'spartner in administration of the
realm, much as Theobald hadbeen, but with greater
enthusiasm, and with lessresistance, and Becket really
wasn't an outrageous choice. Hewas, after all, Archdeacon of

(08:59):
Canterbury. He was, at thatpoint, custodian of lands of the
Church of Canterbury, and he wasthe king's Chancellor. Now the
last may not seem to be anobvious qualification for
becoming Archbishop. But in thisperiod of time, it wasn't a
disqualification. Both KingLouis VII of France, and the

(09:19):
Emperor Frederick Barbarossa ofGermany had elevated their
chancellors to high Episcopaloffice, and both continued
afterwards to hold the office ofChancellor. Service to the crown
and service to the church, afterall, was not supposed to be in
conflict.

Jennifer Paxton (09:37):
For historians of the medieval church. There
was a nice irony about themovie's depiction of Becket's
resistance to being namedArchbishop by Henry

richard abels (09:45):
which has historical basis. According to
William fitzStephen, Thomas hadto be persuaded to accept the
office by calling upon Henry ofPavia, the papal legate in
Normandy.

Jennifer Paxton (09:56):
Irony isn't that Thomas expressed
reluctance, but why he wasreluctant. Medieval clerics in
line to be promoted to bishopwere expected to declare, "Nolo
episcopari."

richard abels (10:08):
How do you say? I really don't want to become a
chairman of the HistoryDepartment?

Jennifer Paxton (10:14):
I've coined one. "Nolo decanari."

Richard Abels (10:16):
I love that. I do not want to be a dean.

Jennifer Paxton (10:21):
So "nolo episcopari" means "I don't wish
to be made a bishop." And thiswas meant as an expression of
humility. To be worthy of theofffice of Bishop, a bishop
elect had to declare himselfunworthy to assume so great a
spiritual office. Becket in themovie expresses his personal
feelings of unworthiness, whichis of course, an assessment that

(10:43):
bishop Gilbert Foliot of Londonand the other English prelates
of the time would have heartilyseconded for real, but not
because he fears that heactually will be unworthy of
that office, and that it'llbring him into conflict with
King Henry.

Richard Abels (10:58):
Yeah. And that turned out to be the case. As
soon as Becket was consecratedArchbishop, he seemed to become
a completely new person. AsChancellor, he had been
accustomed to parading around inrich robes and cloaks. As
Archbishop, he wore a hair shirtunder his episcopal robes to

(11:19):
modify the flesh. As Chancellor,he lavished money on troubadours
and courtiers. As Archbishop, hegave money to the poor. Why he
changed, and whether that changewas genuine, is a matter of
historical debate.

Jennifer Paxton (11:35):
There are a number of ways to explain
Thomas's change of heartcynically, one might say that
calmness now that he had anindependent power base no longer
felt that he had to dance to thekings tune. The Church of
Canterbury was very powerful andvery wealthy in its own right.
In order to safeguard that powerbase, Thomas decided immediately

(11:56):
that he was going to draw a firmline in the sand whenever the
rights and privileges of theChurch of Canterbury are
threatened in any way, even byhis former best friend King.
Less cynically, promiseselevation to the Office of
Archbishop had inspired an innerconversion that led him to
embrace his new responsibilityto protect the church with which

(12:19):
God had entrusted him. Thomashad fallen seriously ill in the
summer of 1161, and he firstseems to have heard about his
candidacy for the archiepiscopalwhile convalescing in the
hospital of the Church of Sashahave a serious illness was the
come to Jesus moment forliterally Yeah, exactly for many

(12:40):
less than pious medieval people.
King William Rufus, who wasnotoriously lacks when it came
to religion, decided to appointthe holiest man that he knew to
be his Archbishop of Canterbury,St. Anselm of Beck, because he
thought he was dying.

richard abels (12:56):
Unfortunately for all, William Rufus recovered,
and was stuck with ADD zone bizArchbishop, a situation that
neither man enjoyed. I'd offer athird possibility for Thomas's
transformation. It's possiblethat Thomas was the consummate
actor. I'm not suggesting thathe was insincere in authentic,

(13:19):
but that he played whatever rolehe was assigned to the best of
his ability. As a cleric inArchbishop theobalds household.
He fulfilled his function sowell that the archbishop made
them Archdeacon as royalChancellor. He was the King's
Man and unreservedly supportedHenry's authority and claims as

(13:41):
Archbishop. He was now the manof God and the church. In this
new role, he supported thechurch's claims and authority as
strongly as he had oncesupported the case. As
Archbishop of Canterbury, Becketwas responsible for protecting
the liberty of the Church, whichby then included free elections

(14:02):
of bishops and abbots. I knowthis sounds ironic, or even
hypocritical given the evidencefor the almost universal
disapproval by the bishops andhigher clergy of Henry's choice
of Protestants exceed

Jennifer Paxton (14:15):
Theobald, perhaps ironic, but also
instructive of what a freeelection meant in England and
1162. The Investiturecontroversy in England had been
resolved in 1107, by acompromise hammered out by
Archbishop Anselm and King Henrythe first and accepted by Pope
Pascal II it's sort of the dryrun for the encoded avalance. It

(14:40):
basically is, bishops would befreely elected by the clergy and
invested with the symbols oftheir spiritual office by the
bishop who consecrated them. Butthe king would continue to
receive homage from newlyelected bishops in return for
the landed fiefs and temporalpowers that they received from
him. In essence, the Englishsolution of 1107 Recognize the

(15:04):
Episcopal sees two bodies. Aspastors of the church bishops
received their authority andpower from God via the church's
clergy through apostolicsuccession. But as magnates of
the realm and landholders offiefs, they received their
temporal powers and authorityfrom the camp.

richard abels (15:24):
The election of Thomas illustrates, I think very
well, what a quote unquote freeelection actually meant in 1162,
despite Congress's continuedrole as Archdeacon of Canterbury
Oh, give it how unpopulararchdeacons were, perhaps
because of it, the cathedralchapter and monks of Canterbury

(15:44):
who were charged with freelyelecting the archbishop needed a
lot of persuasion, once theprior of the abbey received the
royal licence to proceed with anelection, and that a royal
license was needed, in order forthe clergy of Canterbury to have
a quote unquote free election isitself highly revealing. He

(16:09):
called on the senior monks todiscuss the king's nomination of
Thomas. They, in turn, called inthe royal justice year, Richard
de Luci to discuss with them thekings will Richard deluzy laid
out pretty bluntly the benefitsto the Abbey and the see of
having an archbishop who stoodso high in the Kings favor. The

(16:31):
consequences of the fIag thekings will was at least implied
even after the prior and seniormonks recommended Thomas's
candidacy to the other monks,there was vocal opposition to
the choice, but it was aforegone conclusion that Thomas
would be, quote, unquote, freelyelected. The

Jennifer Paxton (16:52):
importance of a bishop having royal favor cannot
be overstressed as ArchbishopBecket was responsible for the
physical welfare of the Churchof Canterbury, which entailed
safeguarding the church'sproperty against encroachment by
knights who held land from theAbbey. One of Becket's first
acts as Archbishop was to demandthat Roger declare Earl of

(17:14):
Hartford, and one of the mostpowerful laymen in England
perform homage to him for thecastle of Tonbridge in Kent. It
was a grand gesture, andalthough it proved unsuccessful,
it made the point to the monksthat the new Archbishop would be
zealous and garden Canterbury'slands and claims to land one

richard abels (17:34):
of Thomas's first clashes with King Henry II came
over Thomas's excommunication ofa Kentish beret, we're having
driven out a priest from aparish church and the lands of
the parish church which wereclaimed by Canterbury, the Baron
claimed that he had not thearchbishop had the right to
presentation that is of choosingthe parish priest, Thomas could

(17:58):
have and he should have appealto the king first, and Henry
immediately protested that thecustoms of the realm prohibited
that attendant in chief beexcommunicated, without the
consent of the king. Thomasreplied that it was not the
Kings placed to give orders toabsolve or excommunicate anyone,

Jennifer Paxton (18:18):
and that was going to be a point of
contention. financial demands bythe Crown were always a
flashpoint in the relationshipbetween medieval kings and
bishops, as Archbishop Thomasprotected his church by
resisting the type of financialdemands from the King, that he
as Chancellor had enforced uponother problems. Yeah,

richard abels (18:37):
notably school age, which is the payment of
cash in lieu of providing owednight service. Perhaps

Jennifer Paxton (18:43):
the most important duty that Thomas had
as Archbishop was to maintainthe ancient rights and
privileges of the see ofCanterbury against the claims of
the other bishops in England, inparticular, his old colleague
from theobalds household,Archbishop Roger de Coyne evac
of York, who have resistedacknowledging the primacy of

(19:04):
Canterbury. It's

richard abels (19:05):
really kind of interesting, old friendships and
old rivalries just persist. Theyreally do. Yeah, sort of like
graduating together from anEnglish public school, right?
Yes. But none of this madeBecket's break with the king
inevitable. What did was theproblem of criminalist allergic?

(19:27):
In

Jennifer Paxton (19:27):
the previous episode, Richard and I discussed
Henry II imposition of royalauthority over civil law, that
is the law of property anddispute settlement. But Henry II
was also determined to reformthe criminal law. He wanted to
crack down not just onrecalcitrant barons and lords
who were abusing theirprerogatives, but also on garden

(19:50):
variety criminals. To that end,he said about reforming the
royal approach to crime. He sentout roving commissions of judges
called Ayers. These IERS werespecifically tasked with
sweeping up criminals and tryingtheir cases.

richard abels (20:09):
We live in 66 Henry and his advisors
regularized royal oversight ofcriminal law at the size of
Clarendon, quote, on the deviceof all his barons, and with a
goal of preserving peace andmaintaining justice, King Henry
ordain that inquiries be madethroughout each county and each

(20:30):
100 by 12 are the more lawfulmen of the 100. And by four of
the moral lawful men of eachfill, these men shall swear an
oath to tell the truthconcerning whether in their 100
or in their Ville, there is anyman cited or charged as a
robber, murderer or thief, orwhether there is anyone who has

(20:51):
abetted any robber, murderer orthief in the time since the law
of Kings coronation, and if arobber murderer or thief or the
receivers of them shall bearrested by means of the
aforesaid oath. At a time whenthe royal justices are not due
to appear anytime soon into thecounty where the arrests have
been made. Let the sheriff saidword by some knowledgeable man

(21:13):
to one of the near justices,that such criminals have been
arrested, and the justices shallsend back to the sheriff word of
where they wish to have the menbrought before them, and the
sheriff shall bring them beforethe justices and they shall also
bring with them from the 100 inthe Ville, in which the arrests
were made to lawful men to carrythe record of the county and 100

(21:37):
as to why the men were arrestedand let the sheriff's who have
arrested these criminals bringthem before the justices without
requiring any other summons thanthe one they shall receive from
the justice. In other words,while common law was now to
embrace criminal as well ascivil law,

Jennifer Paxton (21:56):
these new juries of presentment are often
held up as the origins of ourgrand juries. And in a sense
they were since they wereresponsible for making criminal
indictments. But medieval juriesdid so on the basis of what they
personally knew about theoffenses. Their primary function
was as witnesses, which is whywrong decisions were treated as

(22:19):
perjury, right.

richard abels (22:20):
Henry II went after a group of people whom he
considered to be threats topublic order, because they
tended to escape royaljurisdiction. This class of
troublemakers were strangelyenough clergymen or clerks to
use the contemporary term. That

Jennifer Paxton (22:39):
doesn't mean that they were necessarily
priests. There were many gradesin the clerical hierarchy and
men could work their way slowlyup these grades while still
living much like laymen. Thosein lower orders like
doorkeepers, acolytes, exorcistand readers, there are seven
grades were even allowed tomarry. Technically, these guys

(23:03):
are churchmen, but they aren'treally living very church
oriented lives. Some of themwere really poor scraping by on
meager salaries, or none at all.
So it's not surprising that afew clearly supplemented their
earnings by recourse to crime.
And some even in the higherorders of Deacon and priest were

(23:23):
just flat out criminals. Beforethe Norman Conquest. A
criminalist. Clerk, as theseclerical criminals were called,
with just had been tried for hiscrimes in 100, or Shire court
like anybody else. But Williamthe Conqueror had brought in a
parallel court system in Englandthat was run by the church.
These church courts hadjurisdiction over certain cases

(23:46):
that involved correction ofsinful behavior.

richard abels (23:49):
As I mentioned in previous episode, this included
adultery once marriage became aCatholic sacrament marital
disputes, including accusationsof adultery, were heard in these
ecclesiastical Kabelo courts.
But canon law courts also claimjurisdiction, not only over
certain kinds of offenses, butalso over certain types of

(24:09):
people, namely anyone inclerical orders, even the minor
clerical orders under Williamthe Conqueror and his sons,
William Rufus and Henry thefirst, the secular courts and
the church courts had worked outa modus vivendi by which clerics
accused of really serious crimeswould first be stripped of their

(24:32):
clerical status in the churchcaught in the cat in local and
then handed over to the royalcourts for further punishment.

Jennifer Paxton (24:41):
The reason for this was that church courts were
forbidden by Canon Law to imposepenalties that involved the
shedding of blood. So noexecutions are mutilations, if
you wanted those. You have to goto the royal court.

richard abels (24:55):
Yes, but this was all a matter of custom. They
were weren't any hard and fastwritten rules about when exactly
the church courts were obligatedto cough up particular criminals
clerks. But in the first half ofthe 20th century, the Catholic
Church had evolved into whatsome historians like to call a
papal monarchy. The church wasconceived of as a universal

(25:19):
state, with both a heavenly anda temporal component in which
all clergy regardless of wherethey were stationed, were solely
under the jurisdiction of thechurch. As with the baronage,
the claims of the church visavie the authority the crown went
unchallenged during the civilwar between King Stephen and the

(25:41):
Empress Matilda because theroyal authority couldn't
challenge it.

Jennifer Paxton (25:45):
Henry II was determined to restore the good
legal customs of his grandfatherKing Henry the first, and this
included reestablishing royalauthority over criminals,
clerics, several big clericalscandals helped push him in this
direction. And I'll just tellyou about one of them. This is a
good one. It is. In 1163, acanon of Bedford named Philip

(26:09):
Dubois was accused of murderinga night he was brought before
the Archbishop's court andpurged himself of the crime.
That is He swore an oath that hewas innocent, and the oath was
accepted. That's all it took inthe church court to get off scot
free. Later, a royal judge triedto reopen the case, because

(26:30):
apparently there were amplegrounds to doubt the sincerity
of Philips oath. Philip insultedthe judge before witnesses. This
was if anything a more seriouscrime in the king's eyes than
the alleged murder. But onceagain, he was hauled up before
the Archbishop's court, and thistime he was convicted of
insulting the judge, but he wasagain acquitted of the murder.

(26:53):
He was sentenced to the loss ofrevenues from his ecclesiastical
office for two years. With themoney distributed to the poor,
and a public whipping. In thepresence of the judge he
insulted if he had been foundguilty in a royal court, he
would have faced execution ormutilation. Henry was utterly
fed up with clerks being ableliterally to Get Away with

(27:16):
Murder.

richard abels (27:17):
As Jenny said, That was only one of several
high profile cases of criminalsclerks that came to the kings
attention. Will you fit Stephenin a power free men to praise
Becktt relates how thearchbishop refused to turn over
to the royal courts, a clerk ofWestern who had killed the

(27:37):
father of a girl that he wasattempting to rape that could
place the murderer and rapistinto the Archbishop's prison, so
that the world authorities couldnot take custody of him. But
especially pissed off Henry IIwas that the man who protected
this murderous cleric from Royaljustice and presided over the
trial of Philip Dubois was theman whom he had made Archbishop

(28:02):
in order to support his claimsof royal authority by elevating
Thomas to be primate, Henrythought he was finally going to
have an archbishop he couldreally deal with who would
really support him, who would itwould be essentially his man.
After all, Thomas owedeverything to the king. But

Jennifer Paxton (28:22):
when Henry went after criminals, clerks, the
Archbishop pushed back,

richard abels (28:27):
W. L. Warren, who's 1973 biography of King
Henry II for Yale's EnglishMonarch series, is still in my
assessment, the standardbiography of that King Warren
pointed out that Becket'sinsistence on the church's sole
jurisdiction over criminalistclerks, quote, "called into
question the whole of Archbishoptheobalds modus vivendi with the

(28:51):
state, and that drove the kingto an equally dogmatic stance of
the Royal prerogative." Endquote.

Jennifer Paxton (28:59):
Those royal prerogatives over the English
church were spelled out indetail in a document known as
the constitutions of Clarendon.
The constitutions of Clarendonwere the record of a royal a
size that is a meeting of theking with his lay and
ecclesiastical advisors, held atthe royal hunting lodge at
Clarendon in 1164, theconstitutions of Clarendon

(29:22):
obliged the church to handcriminals clerks over to be
tried by the Royal Courts.

richard abels (29:29):
But it went even further than that. It also deals
with the other key points ofdispute between the king and the
English church. It prohibitedarchbishops and bishops from
excommunicating. tenants andchief without first receiving
the approval of the king, andfrom leaving, even leaving the
kingdom are appealing to thepapacy without first again,

(29:52):
getting permission of the king.
The disputes over ecclesiasticalproperty were to be resolved
like all other land disputes Ina royal court, and church held
lands were to owe the same royaldues as lands held by the lady.
The constitutions of Clarendonis presented as a restoration of
the good customs and royalprivileges practiced under King

(30:15):
Henry the first, and thatprobably is true. But times have
changed. And the Constitutionswere a response, not only to the
clergy is claimed to be solelyresponsible for disciplining
itself, but to the papacy isclaims to be the supreme head of
a universal church. In essence,it was the expression of King

(30:38):
Henry II's notion that he wassupreme over the church in his
kingdom, and his insistence thatthe clergy of his kingdom from
doorkeeper, all the way up toArchbishop were his subjects.

Jennifer Paxton (30:56):
Becket was summoned before the royal
presents and forced probablyliterally under the threat of
violence to accept thisrenunciation of the church's
rites of jurisdiction. But afteraccepting the constitutions and
making all the other bishopsaccept them, Becket then changed
his mind and decided to take astand. And

richard abels (31:17):
And that must have gone over really big with
Bishop Gilbert Foliot and theother English bishops, who
really didn't want him to beArchbishop in the first place.

Jennifer Paxton (31:27):
This was really a disaster. So he renounces the
constitutions of clarinet andafter forcing everybody else to
accept them, so they wereenraged, he had made them go
against their consciencesbecause they didn't think that
these provisions were a goodidea. But he was then going back
on his word, trying to have itboth ways. So Thomas lost a lot
of Episcopal support rightthere. There was an uneasy truce

(31:51):
with the king at this point, butThomas and Henry could not stop
provoking each other. Littledisputes over property got
magnified out of all proportion.
Finally, the king seems to havereached a breaking point and he
decided to bring back it downfor good. He accused him of
financial improprieties whilechancellor and summoned him to
appear before him atNorthampton. Apparently a very

(32:12):
large sum of money that the kinghad given to Thomas as
Chancellor 30,000 pounds

richard abels (32:20):
that was the annual revenues the Crown could
expect from all of England,

Jennifer Paxton (32:24):
it was a huge amount of money could not be
accounted for. Nobody knows thetruth of what happened with this
money. Had it been a gift andwas it thus unfair to be asking
for an accounting now? Or wasThomas being truthful when he
claimed that he had spent all ofthe money on the Kings affairs?
We will never know. And it'svery likely that the whole

(32:45):
affair was a put up job. This isthe sort of thing that the
adjuvant kings yeah did. Whatthe charge was serious enough
that the archbishop felt he hadno option but to flee. He didn't
want to be treated publicly likea criminals clerk. So he escaped
from Northampton with a fewfollowers. And after a harrowing

(33:06):
cross country journey of threeweeks, he finally made it to the
port of sandwich which was underCanterbury's control, and he
embarked for exile on thecontinent,

richard abels (33:17):
which I might point out violated the
Constitution, so Clarendon did.
Becket actually violated theConstitutions twice, first by
appealing to the papacy, thejudgment of the bishops against
him in the civil case ofcontempt of court. And then by
leaving the kingdom, without theking's permission, it Thomas's
fellow bishops were upset, KingHenry II, was royally pissed. He

(33:39):
sent a letter to King Louis VIIof France, urging him not to
allow Becket to remain inIsrael. It's a wonderful letter,
and it gives you a sense of thecharacter, the personality of

Henry II (33:53):
Quote. "Know that Thomas, who was Archbishop of
Canterbury, and the past tense,who was Archbishop of
Canterbury, very significant,yeah, as has been publicly a
judged in my court by fullcounsel of the barons of my
realm, to be a wicked andperjured trader, to me, and
under the manifest name oftraitor, has wickedly departed.

(34:17):
Wherefore I earnestly beg younot to permit a man guilty of
such infamous crimes, andtreasons or his men to remain in
your kingdom. Rather, if itpleases you, help me to take
vengeance on my great enemy forthis affront, and to seek my
honor, even as you would wish meto do for you, if you were

(34:41):
placed into this situation."

Jennifer Paxton (34:46):
But Louis VII wasn't moved. Thomas was too
valuable a pawn against a kingwho as duke of Normandy and
Aquitaine, and Count of Anjouwas also an overmighty subject.
So He wasn't going to throw thataway. Yeah, it would be six
years before Thomas returned toEngland, six years of fruitless

(35:07):
negotiations involving not justHenry II and Thomas, but also
the King of France and PopeAlexander the third, not to
mention almost every otherBishop and secular ruler in
Western Europe,

richard abels (35:20):
it had to be really frustrating. You're
dealing with two guys who arenot going to back down, and a
bunch of people around them whowant them to just simply get
over this.

Jennifer Paxton (35:31):
This would have been on the crawl on CNN every
single day for six years. Yeah,

richard abels (35:36):
wouldn't get the sense that Pope Alexander the
third regarded Becket as anunwelcome problem that he wished
would simply go away. WhenBecket appeared before the Pope,
he carried with him a copy ofthe constitutions of Clarendon,
spreading the offending documentin front of him. Thomas
melodramatically, assumed blamefor them. He had failed in his

(35:58):
duty as Archbishop to protectthe liberty of the church, he
had showed himself unworthy tohold the high office in office,
he obtained, he confessed,through an uncanonical and
illegitimate procedure, killingthe pope that he was an equal to
the burden. He resigned thearchbishopric into the hands of

(36:19):
the Pope. Now Alex into thethird, this is all theater,
right? It really is veryperformative. It really is.
Alexander the third had littlerecourse, but to reappoint dec,
which wiped out any doubt abouthis legitimacy. To be Archbishop
comes right from the bow, itcomes right from the Pope.
Because how is Alexander thethird going to say, Oh, the

(36:42):
Constitution is a Clarendon offive, that he can't be stuck
with this. So he has to supportBecket and whether he wants to
or not. But as I said, Becketpresented a real political
problem for Alexander the third.
The Pope was currently engagedin an existential struggle with
the Emperor Frederick Barbarossaof Germany, and the man he had

(37:07):
pointed as Pope anti Pope. Sohere we have Alexander the
third, fighting with the emperorof Germany, needing the support
of the other kings, not wantingto alienate King Henry II or
alienate King Louis VII. So whatPope Alexander's response was to
try as best he could toreconcile all the parties. The

(37:31):
problem was that neither Henrynor Thomas was willing to admit
that he was wrong, or submit tothe other. In the case of both
of this is a matter of pride.
And they're not going to humblethis up so you Millie ate
themselves. Louis VII,meanwhile, was willing to
continue to pay for Thomas'supkeep and give him protection

(37:54):
largely to underscore his ownpiety, in contrast to Henry II.

Jennifer Paxton (37:58):
We can get a sense of how King Louis VII
exploited Thomas's exile from acontemporary song "In Rama Sona
gemitus."

richard abels (38:41):
The sound of weeping is heard in Ramah. The
Rachel of England is in tears, anew king Herod has visited upon
her this economy. Behind beholdthe firstborn of the realm,
Canterbury's own Joseph now hasbeen sold into slavery and

(39:03):
forced to inhabit Egypt ofFrance.

Jennifer Paxton (39:07):
Wow, that's a that's a pretty powerful
statement. It's

richard abels (39:11):
a pretty powerful statement.

Jennifer Paxton (39:12):
So the stalemate was broken by new
points of contention betweenHenry II and Thomas. This had to
do directly with Henry'sdynastic plans. Henry wanted his
oldest son also called Henry tobe crowned king of England, even
while he himself was stillalive. This would be a kind of
insurance policy that he wouldsucceed peacefully when the time

(39:36):
came. Remember the successionsof all the other English kings
since the Norman Conquest hadbeen dicey affairs. Think of
Henry the first sprinting toWinchester to get the royal
treasury after his brother iskilled in a hunting accident,
accidental death accident. Well,yeah, we could. We can debate
that. Or Stephen having to hurryacross the channel to do

(39:58):
likewise, Henry II wanted hisson to have an easier path to
the throne. And in order to gethis son crowned, he needed the
Archbishop of Canterbury, or atleast custom required that the
Archbishop of Canterburyconsecrate the kings of England.
You really wanted the Archbishopof Canterbury to do it if you
possibly could make it happen,because that was going to look

(40:21):
the best. Becket refused to doit. There was still stuff he
wanted to straighten out withthe king before he was willing
to help him out in this way. Butif you couldn't settle with the
Archbishop of Canterbury, therewas also another Archbishop in
England, the Archbishop of York,you could get the Archbishop of

(40:41):
York to do it.

richard abels (40:42):
This is exactly what William the Conqueror had
done, because of doubts to thelegitimacy of the then
Archbishop of Canterburysticking to remove any doubt
that such a move was kosher, andthen sorry, couldn't resist.
Henry II obtained approval fromPope Alexander the third. And
that approval was probably giveneither ingratitude or a little

(41:07):
bit more cynically, as paymentfor Henry II's recent formal
recognition of the Pope as beingthe Pope.

Jennifer Paxton (41:15):
So on June 14 1170, Prince Henry was crowned
in Westminster Abbey by theArchbishop of York. After that
he was usually referred to asHenry the young king. Becket was
devastated. This was a blow atone of Canterbury's most
cherished prerogatives, theright to consecrate the king.

(41:37):
But shortly after this, the kingand the archbishop met in France
and made up their quarrel.
Though they may not haveunderstood each other
completely. Becket thought theking was giving him permission
to excommunicate the bishops whohad been involved in what they
could consider to be the illegalconsecration of the prince.
Henry definitely did not thinkthe same thing. At any rate, it

(41:59):
seemed like peace at the time.
In the meantime, letters arrivedfrom the pope imposing sentence
on the bishops who had helped inthe consecration back in
forwarded them onto England, ashe prepared to cross the channel
himself back at excommunicatedthe Archbishop of York and the

(42:20):
bishops of London and Salisbury.

richard abels (42:22):
Despite Henry II's promise of peace, the
situation remains tense. Intheory, the king and Archbishop
had reconciled. Henry II hadrenounced the privileges claimed
in the constitutions of clarity,and it agreed after extended
negotiations to the restorationof all the lands and property
that the crown had confiscatedfrom Thomas and those who

(42:44):
followed him into exile, that itfor his part, promised loyalty
to the king and agreed to reconsecrate young Henry is king,
thus saving both the dignity ofCanterbury and confirming the
legitimacy of the firstcoronation, but King Henry II
was giving mixed signals, herefused to release any of the

(43:04):
revenues of the see until Thomasphysically returned to
Canterbury that he could donothing but watch is the man
whom the king had appointedcustodian of the lands of
Canterbury stripped it of itsresources. Penniless, Becket
awaiting transit to England inBoulogne, was besieged by his
creditors. The Archbishop ofJuan came to his rescue,

(43:26):
providing them sufficient fundsto pay off his debts, and to
outfit his entourage for returnsuitable to his rank. Opposition
to Becket's return waswidespread. This included not
only the bishops and clerics whoBecktt and excommunicated, but a
lot of landowners, who now heldthe lands that the king had

(43:47):
confiscated from Becket'sfollowers, as Frank bolo pointed
out, that gets returned was theharbinger of a territorial
counter revolution in Kent.
Those who supported the kingwould lose the property they
held from the see, while thosewho had been dispossessed would
regain theirs. Most threatening,however, was wild. Henry II had
given verbal promises andprotestations of goodwill. He

(44:12):
had withheld the kiss of peace.
And that was ominous to say theleast. It did not help his
situation by repeating hisexcommunication of the three
bishops, and those who hadplugged his see in his absence,
this time in his new capacity aspeople make it. Upon arriving in

(44:35):
England, Becket met with royalofficials who pleaded the case
of the excommunicated previous,that could said that he would
grant the Archbishop of York andthe bishops of London and
Saulsbury conditionalabsolution, if they showed
genuine repentance, promisesatisfaction, and took an oath
to obey the commands of thePope, as laid out in the papal

(44:58):
letters that he carried and whenwhich they hadn't seen. They
refused, citing theConstitution's of quarantines
prohibition about contacting thepope without world permission.
So Thomas let theexcommunication stand. As Becket
made his triumphant return toCanterbury, three very unhappy

(45:18):
bishops cross the channel in theother direction to seek redress
from the King in Normandy. Theyfound Henry II at his court at
Bearse. Nearby you, where heplanned to hold his Christmas
court. The bishops knew the kingmaybe not as well as Becket did,
but well enough to press theright buttons. Becket was

(45:39):
persecuting them, theycomplained for the love they had
shown Henry in consecrating hisson King of England, as he had
ordered them to do. Not only hadBecket excommunicated them, he
now threatened to depose theyoung king, Henry OO snapped,
which brings us to the famousoutbursts that exasperated Henry

(46:02):
II was supposed to have shoutedto his courtiers

Move "Becket" (46:05):
Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest, a
priest who mocks me. Are thereno men left in England?

richard abels (46:25):
I love the scene.
And I love the way that PeterO'Toole over acts in the seat,
because that's how Henry II isdescribed. But as I mentioned in
the previous episode, therereally is no contemporary
support. Perhaps Henry, havingsaid, Will no one rid me of this
turbulent priest, but it's clearthat he did say something along

(46:47):
those lines. Becket's friend andcleric, the very well informed
John of Saulsbury heard thatHenry had declared, quote, with
tears that the archbishop wouldtake from him both body and
soul, and that they were alltraders, who would not summon up
the zeal and loyalty to freedomof the harassment of one man and

(47:10):
quote, now a bit more verbosethan the pithy Will no one rid
me of this turbulent priest, butessentially, it means the same
thing. So four knights of theking's household reginal fixers,
Hugh de Morville, Richardlabret, and bleep the Tracy, who
cat Tracy told me was herancestor cool, which I played by

(47:31):
ancestry to a murder of thestate, but you know, hell, I can
trace my ancestry all the wayback to Brooklyn. Anyway. These
four knights took the king'soutburst as a command, or at
least as an opportunity to wineven greater royal favor. They

(47:52):
crossed the channel and rode offthe Canterbury to create a
martyr.

Jennifer Paxton (47:59):
Oh, they probably didn't intend to kill
Becket, but rather to arrest himand bring him before the king.
But when he resisted theirattempts to coerce him, they cut
him down right in his cathedral.

richard abels (48:11):
I agree with Jenny that the Knights probably
intended to take Becket intocustody, but that the
confrontation got out of hand.
It didn't help matters, thatthree of these four nights owed
Becket for pass favors. Thomashis martyrdom was fueled by
anger, arising from feelings ofbetrayal. If Henry II felt
aggrieved by Thomas's andgratitude, so now Did Thomas,

(48:32):
three of the Knights had beenBecket's vassals when he had
been chancellor in one year, theMorville had remained in
Thomas's service after he becameArchbishop, that men who had
once pledged to loyalty are nowaccusing him of treason rankled
the archbishop that couldsingled out reginal fits Earth,

(48:52):
the leader of the group, andcharged with ingratitude,
reminding him that he owed hisplace in the king's court to
Thomas's recommendation.

Jennifer Paxton (49:03):
When the frightened monks came out of
hiding, they found the body ofthe archbishop lying before the
altar. When they stripped thebody, they discovered a hair
shirt crawling with vermin underthe dead Bishop's expensive
vestments.

richard abels (49:17):
I'll add Ellen's commentary on that Ill this

Jennifer Paxton (49:21):
clinched it.
Overnight, Becket went fromfirst class troublemaker to St.
King Henry tried in vain toargue that he hadn't ordered the
knights to kill Becket. Buteveryone basically accepted his
ultimate responsibility for thedeed

richard abels (49:37):
even he did, which may explain why the Four
Knights were never tried orconvicted of murder. Rather,
they ended up seeking absolutionfrom the Pope, who for their
pennants sent them on crusade.
Reports

Jennifer Paxton (49:51):
of miracles at Canterbury started almost
immediately and on February 211173, less than three years
After Thomas's death, he wascanonized by Pope Alexander III.

richard abels (50:05):
Henry II also sought absolution from the Pope,
meeting with a papal legation innorthern France. Henry admitted
indirect responsibility for thedeath of the archbishop. But he
swore in oath on the Gospels,that he had neither ordered nor
desired. Thomas's death. ForHenry's penance, he agreed to go

(50:27):
on crusade for three years torestore all the lands and
property to all clerks and ladywho had been disloyal because of
their support of Thomas. And tofast and give offs. The
constitutions of Clarendon werenow as dead as Becket. Through
his death, Becket had oneagainst the king, game set and

(50:49):
match. Henry II and hissuccessors up until King Henry
the Eighth, accepted theprinciple that clergy remained
exempt from Royal jurisdiction.
In England this was calledbenefit of clergy, which
survived in an attenuated formuntil abolished by Parliament in
1827. Before then, however, KingHenry the Eighth had limited

(51:11):
benefit of clergy to minorcrimes, reserving murder, rape,
poisoning, petty treason,sacrilege, witchcraft, theft and
pickpocketing to be adjudicatedin the Kings courts.

Jennifer Paxton (51:26):
I love the fact that witchcraft and
pickpocketing belong together onthat list

richard abels (51:30):
I know. Somehow, it seems that you're merging
together things as he reallyserious with meh

Jennifer Paxton (51:37):
yeah, well, yes, witchcraft seems like a
bigger deal to them than it doesto us.

Richard Abels (51:41):
Yeah, pickpocketing too.

Jennifer Paxton (51:43):
Yeah, really.
So in 1174 King Henry II wasfacing a serious revolt by his
eldest son of bettered by hisother sons, his wife, Eleanor of
Aquitaine, and the king of theScots. With this war going
badly, Henry II undertook tomake his final amends to the
martyr and Saint. He went onpilgrimage to Canterbury, where

(52:03):
he confessed to being theunwitting cause of the death of
the saints, and removing hiscloak he knelt down to be
flogged by the clergy inattendance. And this is actually
the beginning of the stuff inthe movie The beginning of the
movie. He then promised to builda monastery in honor of St.
Thomas. This

richard abels (52:23):
was an act of political theater. By accepting
the public humiliation of aflogging. Henry was
acknowledging his guilt, anddemonstrating his remorse for
his complicity, however,unintended in the martyrdom of
the saint, given that he wasfighting for his crown at this
point, it makes sense that hewould want to remove the taint

(52:46):
of the death of Becket fromhimself. He wanted to reset and
he got it he did. You know, oneof the interesting things about
this, though, I learnedafterwards, is that although
Becket one in terms of theprinciples, Becket's enemies all
prospered afterwards, anddecades, friends and supporters

(53:06):
never got the greatecclesiastical performance, with
the exception of John ofSalisbury that they all wanted.

Jennifer Paxton (53:13):
And Donald Salisbury is a political
appointment is not an England.
Exactly

richard abels (53:17):
exactly. The popularity of St. Thomas surged
in the following centuries,Canterbury became the go to
place for pilgrimages. InEngland, the most famous
literary work arising from themartyrdom of Thomas Becket is
about one of those pilgrimages.
It's Jeffrey choices, late 14thcentury, the Canterbury Tales,

(53:40):
the literary could seat in thiswork, the framing device, is
that you have a group ofpilgrims who all want to go to
Canterbury, to visit the Shrineof St. Thomas Becket, Becket
have become an overnightsensation when he was martyred
in 1170. And his two was themost popular domestic pilgrimage

(54:03):
destination in England, even twocenturies later. So you have 29
pilgrims from all walks of life,and they all happen together
added in in Southwark across theriver from London on the south
bank of the Thames. There's

Jennifer Paxton (54:21):
some grumbling among these Illa sorted guests
until the innkeeper proposes awager they will all go on
pilgrimage together, includingthe innkeeper himself. So that
makes 30 pilgrims. And along theway, each pilgrim will tell two
tales on the outward journey andtwo tales on the way back, and
the one who everybody agreestells the best tale will win a

(54:44):
free dinner at the expense ofall the rest. Unfortunately,
Chaucer have never followedthrough completely on this
scheme. If you do the math, weshould have 120 stories, but we
only have 24 Not even one foreach Milgram, let alone for for
each Pilgrim, but we should bevery grateful for the ones we

(55:05):
have. The reason is that Chauceruses his pilgrims as a vehicle
for social commentary on Englishmen and women from all social
classes and walks of life. Sothat's fantastic for historians,
we get a great cross section ofEnglish social life. The social
status of the pilgrims isreflected very well in the tales

(55:26):
they choose to tell. Theircharacters of very high status
like the night tell veryelevated, very refined tales
about courtly adventures andchivalry. The characters are
very low social status, like theMiller and the Reeve tell quite
earthy stories with saltylanguage that you might not want
to read aloud in mixed company.

richard abels (55:48):
But you know, what unites them all? Is their
veneration for St. Thomas, andtheir belief that if they go on
pilgrimage to the shrine inCanterbury, that Thomas will
grant them their prayers. That'sright, Josie used a pilgrimage
to the Shrine of St. Thomas as adevice to tell a variety of
stories, representing not only avariety of literary genres, but

(56:12):
the full range of England socialclasses. What made this an
effective device is that suchpilgrimages were a reality. In
the late 14th century, themartyrdom of Thomas Becket was a
watershed in the history ofChurch State relations in
medieval England, and the cultof St. Thomas was vitally

(56:34):
important to the self competenceof the English church. Here was
a case where the church hadstood up to the secular power,
and one the king had had to backoff, and while relationship
between church and state was byno means trouble free, the
church deep preserve more legalautonomy than King Henry II had

(56:54):
wanted to the degree thatseparate church courts and
benefit of clergy survived wellpast the middle ages. Given that
it isn't surprising that anotherroyal Henry Henry the Eighth
should have viewed Becket andhis cult as an obstacle to
restoring what he saw as theproper relationship between the
Crown and the English church.
It's well known that Henry theEighth suppress the monasteries,

(57:15):
including ChristchurchCanterbury, what is less well
known is that Henry the Eighthharbored particular animus
against one English St. ThomasBecket in 1536, Henry the Eighth
abolish the feast of Becket'stranslation, which is on July 7.
In the following year, heordered the image of St.
Thomas's martyrdom removed fromthe seal of the city of

(57:39):
Canterbury in 1538. That goodshrine and Canterbury was
dismantled, and its treasurescarted away in 26 wagons that
gets bones were either burned,which is what the Pope had been
told, or we buried in anunmarked grave. Soon after, King
Henry the Eighth and hisChancellor Thomas Cromwell,
issued a joint proclamation thatcompleted the de sanctification

(58:02):
of Becket, Henry the eighth termin the document, a goodly and a
Catholic Prince, quote, lawfullysovereign chief and supreme head
on Earth immediately afterChrist of the Church of England,
he cries the usurped authorityclaimed by Thomas Becket, and
labels Becket, a rebel andtraitor to his Prince.

(58:23):
Consequently, Henry the Creed,quote, Thomas Becket shall not
be esteemed named reputed tohave called a saint, and his
images and pictures through thewhole realm shall be put down
and avoided out of all churches,chapels and other places. The
days used to be festival in Hisname shall not be observed, nor

(58:44):
the services offices and TBonzcollects and prayers in his name
read, but erased and put out ofall the books and quote, not
only was Becket shrine atCanterbury demolished, but
following the proclamation sowe're images and pictures of him
throughout England. Thethoroughness of the suppression

(59:04):
of Becket's called is physicallyreflected in the surviving
missiles from Henry the Eighthreign, Dr. Outta Naser, X and
Eddie discover that in every oneof the surviving 200 missiles,
the surfaces commemoratingdecades had been erased, crossed
out or covered with a die tomake them illegible. But Henry
the Eighth was no moresuccessful in erasing the memory

(59:26):
of Thomas Becket than he was inerasing the memory of the other
Thomas, who we helped to make aSt. Thomas More. But we are
running out of time as usual.
And I would like to chat withJenny at least a little bit
about Thomas Becket in themovies, or in this case movie.

(59:47):
The movie is of course, Becket,directed by Peter Glenville, and
starring Richard Burton, PeterO'Toole and John Gielgud, Becket
did okay financially, ranking15th in box office receipts Each
for films released in 1964. Itdid better than okay with the
critics. After winning theGolden Globes for Best Picture,

(01:00:08):
it garnered 12 Academy Awardnominations, including for Best
Picture, Best Director, BestActor. Both Burton and O'Toole
got nods, and Best SupportingActor for John Gielgud. It ended
up only winning one Oscar, andthat was for Edward and helds
adaptation of John Ali's 1959stageplay. Becket Jenny, I don't

(01:00:31):
know about you. But I've alwaysfound it interesting that a
movie about England's mostfamous Barter is based upon a
play written by a Frenchman.

Jennifer Paxton (01:00:41):
And there's an interesting story with this
play. Supposedly, Shona knew, hewent on a house party over the
weekends, to a place where hefound a book about Thomas Becket
on the shelf, and he sort ofpicked it up and started to read
it. And he became veryfascinated with the story of
Becket, and he wrote this play,but the play isn't really if it

(01:01:03):
comes right down to it about the12th century at all. Yeah, it's
about recent French history.
Okay, so Well, the play castsThomas Becket as a Saxon. We
mentioned this in the firstepisode. And so there is a
dynamic in the movie and theplay, in which Becket is
essentially a collaborator. Theword collaborators actually been

(01:01:28):
used in the script. So he iscooperating with the Norman
oppressor. And so there's even acharacter a completely invented
character in the play in themovie, the Saxon attendant, who
helps Becket out with hispersonal affairs, and he'd
shines Becket for having goneover to the enemy, essentially.

(01:01:51):
And this attendant helps Becketas Archbishop to rediscover his
inner Saxon so to speak. And hebegins to see that he needs to
stand up to Norman oppression.
Now this dynamic has nothing todo with what was really going on
in Becket's actual life, becauseas we mentioned last time, he's
not a Saxon. He's a Norman,

richard abels (01:02:14):
and the little tidbit I picked up since our
last episode, while Becket wasnot a Saxon, one of the knights
who murdered him was or atleast, he was of mixed heritage.
William to Tracy's great greatgrandmother was God Yuval,
sister of King Edward theConfessor, and his grandmother
was GIFa, daughter of an EastAnglian Anglo Danish noble named

(01:02:38):
Osgood clapa.

Jennifer Paxton (01:02:40):
But this is really all about collaboration
in France with the Vichy Regimein World War Two.

richard abels (01:02:46):
Interesting, interesting. How would you
compare on wheezed Becket to T.
S. Eliot's 1935 play aboutThomas's martyrdom? Murder in
the cathedral?

Jennifer Paxton (01:02:57):
It's completely different. So the movie that
well first of all, there's amovie of of the play by Elliot,

richard abels (01:03:04):
which you actually saw, and which I saw on
the web?

Jennifer Paxton (01:03:08):
Yeah, it was shown to me in high school, I
think I've mentioned I went to arather unusual High School.
Yeah, fourth grade. You'reright. So anyway, so we watched
it as part of my medievalEngland history, yes, that I
took in high school. And it'svery stagey. very stylized. So
the Becket film that's based onthe unui play is, is in a very

(01:03:31):
naturalistic side. It'scinematic, it is very cement,
cinematic, epic. It is an epic.
But the the Elliott play is,instead really, first of all,
its inverse. And it's really anexploration of the interior life
of Becktt. So it doesn't focus,for example, on a friendship
between the king and thearchbishop the way you see in

(01:03:53):
the Becket film.

richard abels (01:03:56):
Yeah, and in fact, in the Becket film, Henry
II and Becket are presented asbuddies. They're, they're good
friends, they go huntingtogether. That kid does
everything with every secondexcept sharing his sexual
escapades. However,

Jennifer Paxton (01:04:13):
they work that into the film, because in the
film, Becket has a mistress, whowas played by the unbelievable
Shawn Phillips, who laterbecomes Livia on on quality. Oh,
really? Love that. Yes. Right.
So, so she plays a Becket'smistress. And at one point,
Henry actually comes along andsays, I'll have her please. And
then the Shawn Phillipscharacter, who by the way, as

(01:04:36):
well, which is a wonderfullittle added bonus there. So
Shawn Phillips says to Becket,will you take me back
afterwards? And he says, No, Iwon't. Because he knows that to
take her back after she's beenwith the king. It's just not
going to happen, doesn't work.

(01:04:57):
And so this is an instance inwhich a little bit less If the
cloak story that you talkedabout last time, the king is
asserting his power over back atso this is not a mutual
relationship. So he can eventake Becket's woman. Now there's
no evidence of the actualbackend having a mistress with

(01:05:18):
it Archdeacon have had amistress. Possibly. I mean, if
you think about it, you know,Roger Salisbury, who was a
bishop earlier in the 12thcentury had a wife. That's true.
So it wouldn't have beenimpossible to imagine. Yeah.
And, you know, sort of this sortof thing did happen and was
discussed. But we don't haveany, any reference to it. And

(01:05:39):
given as many enemies as Beckethad, you would have thought one
would think that if he did haveany sort of publicly
acknowledged mistress, we wouldknow.

richard abels (01:05:46):
Yeah, I think so.
I think so. But I think themovie got right about the
relationship between Becket andHenry. The second is that Henry
II really did feel a sense ofpersonal betrayal. And it may
not be a trail because offriendship. It's a betrayal for
what he the reasons that he thathe wrote to Louis VII, this is
the man I made. This was my man.

(01:06:11):
And what did he do? He betrayedme, he committed treason against
me. And that is unforgivable.
It's one thing to have somebodywho was like Theobald, whom he
inherited, but to raise upBecket who really was socially a
nobody to make it the mostpowerful churchmen in England,
and that to happen turned onhim. I

Jennifer Paxton (01:06:35):
think that both the character in the film and
the character in history, bothfrom their own perspective, had
grievances that could justifythe ferocity with which this,
this conflict was pursued. Themovie

richard abels (01:06:51):
gives only the slightest nod to the issue that
really divided Henry II andBecket. The problem of feminist
clerics,

Jennifer Paxton (01:07:02):
it does because it really wants to get to the
human drama as much as possibleand discussing the different
provisions of the constitutionsof Clarendon would not have made
for wonderful cinema. But

richard abels (01:07:13):
fortunately, it makes for a fascinating podcast.
But all good things must come toan end, even a podcast about the
constitutions of Clarendon. Butbefore we go, I'm going to play
another short clip, Jenny, Iknow that you're not a fan of TS
Eliot or have his play murder inthe cathedral. But I read across

(01:07:34):
your performance that play thatis quite simply stunning.

Monty Python (01:07:39):
Good evening, this new series of Trim Jeans Theater
presents will enable you toenjoy the poetry of TS Eliot
whilst losing unsightly tommybulge. Jean. Well, yes and the
inches stay off. Mark. Terrific.
Thrill to Thomas Becket's habitof choice, your physique tighter
firmer, neater. I am here. Notraitor to the king. Absolve

(01:08:00):
all those you haveexcommunicated. Resign those
powers you have arrogated.
Renew the obedience you haveviolated. Lose inches of your
hips.

Jennifer Paxton (01:08:14):
Richard, I thought I was a Monty Python
nerd. I had never heard thisbefore. Thank you for this and
notice. They call him ThomasBecket.

richard abels (01:08:22):
Well, the podcast is called tis but a scratch.
Jenny. It was great having youback as a co host on the
podcast. And I hope you'll comeback to do an episode with me on
the Norman Conquest. It's asubject that I know that we both
are really interested in.

Jennifer Paxton (01:08:38):
I'm excited for that one.

richard abels (01:08:39):
Yeah, yeah. Until then, bye for now.

Jennifer Paxton (01:08:43):
Bye, bye.