June 13, 2023 • 63 mins
Ever wondered how musicians navigate the modern music industry and create sustainable careers? Join me as we sit down with John Nathan Cordy, a UK-based working guitarist, who shares invaluable insights into his experiences with both traditional and contemporary approaches in the industry. From getting signed and playing in function bands to touring and creating online content, John opens up about the various income streams that come with his line of work, such as YouTube ad revenue, Patreon, donations, and gear presets.
Dive into John's daily life as a working musician and discover the importance of maintaining balance by taking breaks from work. Listen as he shares his creative process, the role YouTube plays in his music career, and valuable advice for younger musicians looking to connect with more experienced industry professionals. Additionally, we discuss how having an intentional workflow and consistency can help develop mastery in any field.
Tune in as we explore John's journey as a musician, how he dials in his guitar tones with different modelers, and the ongoing debate between amp versus modelers. Learn how he monetizes his videos and the advice he offers to others seeking their own unique musical voice. Don't miss this engaging and informative episode filled with valuable insights and tips for aspiring and established musicians alike.
Joe Miller
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Cordy (00:04):
The Naked Eye.
Joe Miller (00:36):
Welcome John to Titans of Transition.
Hello Joe, How are you doing?
John Cordy (00:41):
today.
I'm okay, it's sunny.
Joe Miller (00:48):
So let's talk places .
You're in the UK.
Do you say the UK or GreatBritain?
What do you guys prefer?
England, england?
I missed it totally.
What part are you in?
John Cordy (01:04):
So London.
I can't do it with a reversemirror, but so it's called the
Southwest and it's basicallylike the farming part of England
.
So yeah, It's the South West.
Exeter is the closest city andit's about four hours from
London.
Joe Miller (01:22):
Four hours.
So is that a four hour drive?
I mean, you're talking aboutderiving, right?
Yeah, not train or something.
Yeah, okay, cool.
Well, listen, i'm really happyto have you on the podcast today
And, just for background, ifound you because I'm a
guitarist, an old guitarist, andI've spent way too much time on
(01:45):
YouTube perusing differentmaterial But and there's a ton
of people out there producingcontent, but I really connected
with yours and we'll get intothat a little bit more later on.
But I'm just kind of curious.
I thought it would be goodbecause to really drill into
what it's like these days to bea working musician, because you
(02:09):
know, back when I was growing upand when I started playing
guitar, i had my dreams of beinga rock and roll star And I
always thought that, well, youknow, i have to get a band and
we have to get sort of known,get some music out, maybe a
label will pick us up, and theneverything will be like Nirvana
you know well, not the bandNirvana, but they'll all be
wonderful, but it's verydifferent today, and so maybe
(02:32):
just talk to us a little bitabout that.
We'll get into your backgroundlater on, but I thought it'd be
nice to start with kind of whatyou're doing, what's part of
your business right now,elements of it.
Okay.
John Cordy (02:44):
So essentially on the weekends I guess my job
looks a lot like quite a lot ofprofessional or
semi-professional guitarists atwhatever level.
So that'll be kind of playingin function bands for mostly
like weddings and that sort ofstuff.
And, like you say, i thinkgrowing up maybe that wasn't the
(03:08):
dream at all And maybe you'dthink you know the traditional
route is mostly what we hearabout and you know things like
you know getting signed and allthose things that you talked
about there.
But the reality I think isprobably for most people a
little bit different.
If you are doing the thing andyou're not part of like the less
(03:31):
than 1% that do thattraditional route, i think
probably the lion's share ofmusicians tend to be either
doing kind of function gigs ortouring at various levels, and
then there's a lot of folks thatI know that do kind of like the
online studio kind of stuff.
For me, most of my time isspent kind of making videos in
(03:56):
my bedroom.
Joe Miller (03:57):
Yeah, and you?
I mean you pump them out, imean you're averaging, i mean I
see at least a couple a day,many days.
John Cordy (04:06):
So one transition happened recently.
I had a daughter, yes, and I'vegone from doing two a day to
one a day, and I think that'sprobably more reasonable anyway,
but since about 2019, i wasdoing two, sometimes three, a
day.
The main reason I do it, to behonest, is just so that I have
(04:29):
an excuse to play guitar andcreate something every day, but
yeah, Yeah.
Joe Miller (04:36):
So since you're doing it anyway, you figure,
well, why not?
right?
Yeah, Why not put it out there?
And again talking about what itmeans to sort of make a living
this way.
There's multiple streams ofincome.
I know you have obviouslypeople used to think you could
make a lot of money, likeAdSense revenue, off of YouTube.
(04:58):
That's not so much the case now, until you get really enormous.
But you also have a Patreonpage.
We also hope people will buyyou a coffee, make a donation,
But why don't you talk aboutsome of the other things you do?
Okay?
John Cordy (05:13):
Yeah.
So before lockdown, i would saymost of my money was from the
kind of function gigging, and sothe thing with that is that you
basically you have like alimited amount that you can do.
right, you can do maybe five,six gigs a week, and that
(05:33):
involves a lot of travelinggenerally Around the UK.
I used to be driving to andfrom these gigs and you get back
home at like two o'clock.
Once lockdown happened, ithappened hand in hand that the
online stuff had kind of startedto grow to a level where they
were starting to meet in themiddle.
(05:55):
So basically my streams ofincome are, as you say, the
YouTube ad revenue, patreon, theBuy Me A Coffee thing, the gig
money, and then I guess I alsosell presets for like the bits
of gear that I use.
And then a tiny bit of moneyoccasionally comes from
companies who sponsor.
(06:17):
like they might ask if I do ademo of a piece of gear, and I
generally say no to those ordon't respond.
And then actually True Fire,True Fire as well, true Fire.
yeah, that's a nice thing aswell.
So they came to me, i thinkbecause of Keith from Firefork
World said this guy does a thing, and it kind of made sense
(06:41):
because there's a mixture ofstuff on my channel from kind of
like I tried to do two lessonsa week, basically, or lesson
type videos, so it's not alljust based on gear.
hopefully some of it is sort ofuseful for someone.
But yeah, true Fire obviously.
then basically I run an advertat the start of every video and
(07:04):
they pay me some amount of moneyfor that, which helps.
Joe Miller (07:09):
And so a lot of people.
I'm sure there are many peopleconsuming content across your
YouTube channel and others.
They're like, oh, that's great.
Oh, that's good, I'll take thatThat was a great lesson.
And they don't realize thatthat actually is kind of one leg
(07:29):
of your stool, so to speak, foryour revenue.
So it's nice.
I do see great engagement onyour channel.
People say nice things.
Hopefully they also support you.
John Cordy (07:43):
Yeah, yeah, i'm quite lucky.
I think that generally, thepeople that happen across the
channel and stay on it aregenerally polite.
Joe Miller (07:54):
That's great.
So a typical day then, i mean.
So I was curious about this.
What kind of obviously with anewborn.
How old is she now?
She's 18 weeks, i think, andyour wife's name.
John Cordy (08:11):
Liana.
Joe Miller (08:12):
Liana and your daughter's name Lenny.
Lenny, okay, and yourdaughter's name.
John Cordy (08:17):
Elodie.
Joe Miller (08:19):
Say that again.
John Cordy (08:20):
Elodie, so like Melody without the L.
Joe Miller (08:22):
Oh, very nice, Very nice, And so obviously that
takes priority.
So if you're in the middle ofdoing something and you get the
hand off, you have to deal withit.
But generally speaking, youwake up, you have an idea what
you're going to work on, or youjust say well, I'm kind of
curious about this thing.
I saw from another artist And Ithink I'll dig into that and
(08:46):
start recording.
Just kind of curious how thatworks for you.
John Cordy (08:50):
Okay so there's a few things.
So I kind of take film notes onmy mobile phone of ideas, if
they happen to be a thing Ithink I might want to remember,
and so generally this might belike a new kind of pattern or
something like that.
So I take a film with that andI think, right, i might be able
(09:13):
to use that for a lesson at somepoint.
That's one kind of thing.
So that's kind of the mostplanned stuff that I do And
other things I might see in artschool that I think is
interesting.
So I might see something thatsomeone that I am inspired by as
(09:33):
a guitarist So sometimes Iemail those to myself and say
make a video on this, and so Ihave this bank of ideas, really
that kind of floats around.
But I also have these keytopics that I'm interested in,
so it might be specific piecesof gear like amp modeling
devices or certain guitars orcertain guitarists.
(09:57):
I think this is probably commonwith every single thing.
You start to develop your ownniche the more you do it, and so
my actual day goes like I getup generally about 7.30 and most
of the morning now up untilabout nine o'clock is involving
like cleaning bottles and stuffand getting stuff ready.
(10:19):
I sometimes get a chance tojust play some guitar then, but
not loads.
And then nine o'clock I feedthe dogs And then I start on
something.
So generally each video willstart with me just sitting in
front of a camera with a clicktrack going and I basically
(10:40):
start the video, like you mighthave seen in the intro, and then
I kind of put the music aroundit So I record with that click
track and I put in drums and allthat sort of stuff Play a solo
over it, sometimes before I'vedone the rest of it, and that is
kind of that's the engine ofwhy I do any of this at all.
So that moment is what I doYouTube for, if that makes sense
(11:04):
.
Yes, because that's the thingthat I want to want to do and
thought that I would do as a kid.
It just happens that no oneelse really needs that stuff.
It's just I'm doing it forYouTube, if that makes sense.
Joe Miller (11:16):
Well, i think I disagree a little bit.
I think a lot of people givevalue out of that.
John Cordy (11:20):
I mean, it seems like you know it's more like the
traditional, like someone gaveme a brief and said oh, yeah
it's just yeah, whatever, it'sjust like a bit of creativity
and a chance for me to playguitar every day, basically.
And then after that it generallywill be what was the topic for
(11:42):
this video?
What am I thinking about?
It might have been that I justhad a gig last night and I was
thinking, well, this happened orthat happened.
It's all quite spontaneous,like just based on stuff that's
either happening in my life orthat I've seen basically through
the day, and then put thattogether.
So I think generally that therecording, the music part of it,
(12:03):
generally takes not so muchtime, and then the next part,
you know mumbling to a cameraand then editing it together,
takes a bit more time.
So it maybe takes sort of two,three hours overall, sometimes
less than that, sometimes more,depending on how involved it
(12:24):
might be.
And if it's sort of the lessontype stuff, there's often then
like quite a lot of work thathas to go into creating the
stuff that people can then, youknow, follow along with and all
that sort of stuff.
So that's kind of then that'sthe video for the day part done.
I have to go, you know I takeit all downstairs and then I
(12:46):
upload it from there and createa thumbnail and that sort of
stuff.
Yeah, and sometimes thatactually I can use that moment
if I was, for instance workingon new songs.
Sometimes I would use so for agig.
For instance, i would use thefirst part of the video where I
(13:08):
do the creating music stuff.
I might take an idea that I'vebeen working on like it might be
a song by Prince or somethingand just sort of sneak it in, so
that way you kind of get.
Joe Miller (13:24):
Back for your buck.
Yeah.
One thing, two benefits, yeahabsolutely Two birds, one stone.
That's what I'm searching for.
John Cordy (13:33):
Yeah, something less aggressive to the birds maybe,
but then the rest of the dayfrom there.
These days I'm not getting asmuch time to actually play
guitar as I used to, but I thinkthat's made part of growing up.
So then, answering questionsfor people via email, that sort
(13:54):
of thing Does that tend to belate at night.
Joe Miller (13:58):
Sorry, does that tend to be late at night?
John Cordy (14:01):
No no.
I don't do it at night, i try to.
Night is the time for relaxing,because obviously Well, not
obviously, because no one'sgoing to know who I am, but I do
this every single day.
I don't actually take a day off, so I try to at least not be
working on stuff too much atnight, unless my wife is working
(14:23):
on something else.
Then I might go and just startand do another kind of recording
in the night or something likethat.
Then I guess if I had newmaterial to work on for sets
that were upcoming, that wouldbe.
I'd kind of do that in the dayafter I've done the video, if
(14:44):
that makes sense, or if I'mgoing away, like I just went
away for a few days to Wales.
You may have heard of it.
Joe Miller (14:51):
What was it?
You did some weddings.
John Cordy (14:53):
Wales.
Joe Miller (14:54):
No, i have heard of Wales, but I'm thinking, maybe
Are you talking about yourweekend gig You did recently.
No, we just went on holiday fora couple days You actually went
on actual holiday.
John Cordy (15:04):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, i say holiday.
It doesn't feel like a holidayanymore, but so we went, Yeah.
So basically it meant that Ihad to then bank videos
beforehand, yeah, and that sortof stuff.
That makes sense.
So that's what the day is thenused for.
Joe Miller (15:25):
So it's rinse and repeat, then right, basically.
John Cordy (15:29):
Essentially yeah, And then sometimes I might get a
chance to just play guitardownstairs or something like
that.
That's kind of my holiday.
Joe Miller (15:37):
There you go, there you go.
Well, you mentioned a fewminutes ago about it kind of
coming to establish a little bitof a niche.
One of the things that Iconnected with was how you were
working with various differentmodelers And you did a number of
(15:58):
episodes talking about theraging debate between amp versus
modelers And then you usedifferent modelers.
You did your Helix stuff, whichyou use most often, i think,
fractal.
You looked at Kemper alldifferent kinds of modelers And
(16:19):
actually showing people how youdial in your tones, which you
don't often get that specificwhen I look at other creators
out there.
So that's, i think, really ahigh value for guitarists is to
see what you're workingspecifically on to get kind of
really good tone and makingsuggestions.
(16:39):
So obviously you're doing this.
You're kind of chasing your owninterest by looking at these
other devices but at the sametime or answering your own
questions.
So you've done that with modelsand you also have done the
episodes kind of comparingcontrasting guitars And I think
most recently you did an episodekind of a couple of them
(17:03):
talking about do you really needto spend this much money on
this super high end pro guitarAnd does it really make a
difference.
So those are all really greattopics.
John Cordy (17:14):
Yeah, i think that's been the thing that I've tried,
so with all of the stuff.
So in particular there arevideos from back in the day
where I'm kind of talkingthrough stuff, or I might not
even have been talking throughstuff, so I would just upload
(17:34):
kind of videos with me playingguitar And none of that stuff
really connected.
And it's kind of obvious to menow because there's loads of
people doing that.
And, like you said, if you'retalking about a piece of gear,
to me it makes most sense thatpeople could hear the thing and
then if you're going to talkabout the thing, you might as
(17:55):
well show them how you got thatresult And then in that way at
least you've not wasted all ofthat time.
So that's kind of the thinkingfor me was that I can, with all
of these things I can prettymuch show you on the screen
exactly what to do, andhopefully that means that you
can get something out of thevideo rather than just be me
(18:17):
going well, here's the thing.
You could buy it if you want ornot.
Joe Miller (18:21):
It's more that, well , i guess I've made this video
And if enough people find ituseful, then sort of the money
will generate itself anyway, ifthat makes sense, yeah, and I
mean, as I've looked intomonetization, you know, a lot of
times the leaders in this fieldtalk about you deliver the what
(18:42):
, give the value, but don't giveaway all of it, right, and so
that's a great example you justtalked about where you have, you
know, i can think of what yourhelix stop when you're dialing
the tones in.
You know, and I'm looking at thescreen going, i think I can see
what he's doing And then lotsof times just say, but you know,
(19:05):
if you want it, gum, road orwherever you sell your stuff,
you can, you can grab it, youcan grab that preset, and I
think a lot of people do.
But the, i think the moreimportant thing you just talked
about was just playing the musicsometimes doesn't really
connect and give you a following, but sharing your actual
(19:25):
journey, you know, musicaljourney, life journey I mean you
talked about your doggies,right.
So I mean sometimes it's I'vehad to take my iPad over and
show my wife he's a musician, bythe way And I said look, look,
look at these dogs jumping up inhis lap when he's trying to
play.
You know which, i think, is itconnects.
(19:46):
You know it really connects topeople.
There's a human being on theother side of that TV screen or
that computer screen.
John Cordy (19:54):
I think that's a thing as well, that people often
talk about no-transcript.
I think it's an easy thing totry to get across, but I think
in so many ways it's also supereasy to get a Bit wrong.
Does that make sense, like it's?
I know people Probably know it,but I think you have to find
(20:16):
your way To actually doing itwhere it doesn't feel super
forced.
And yeah, i get people sort ofask about various things You
know, like should they startYouTube and stuff like that?
and for me the answer is that,absolutely, my life would have
been totally different if Ihadn't.
But equally, i couldn'trecommend to anyone else that
(20:39):
you should make one or twovideos every single day, if I.
Joe Miller (20:44):
I'm walking into two a month.
John Cordy (20:46):
Yeah, it's not a scalable model for most people,
so it's a bit of a weird onewhere It is what it worked for
me.
So, but that's what I mean,like in terms of Trying to keep
that in mind as well, with allof the various things like it's.
Joe Miller (21:02):
Yeah, i don't know, yeah, no, but I think you
touched on another thing too,that's you know you can't force
it has to be authentic, rightAnd and and that's it certainly
is.
For you It's kind of likefinding your musical voice.
You know, you have to find outwhat your, your tone is.
You had to find out Do your ownexpression once you get to a
certain point.
So this is actually a goodplace to segue this kind of
(21:25):
behind-the-scenes discussion ofJohn and his typical day.
And, and Let me ask you, how,how did you get to where you are
?
so Did you go to when you werein school?
Well, let me back up evenfurther.
Do you come from a musicalfamily?
John Cordy (21:45):
So yes, so my mom and dad.
So my mom plays saxophone, mydad plays trombone, and My
myself and my brother.
So we grew up on a farm.
We didn't have much money, butthe money that mom and dad did
have, they spent on pianolessons for us.
So, like from the age of five,i had piano lessons.
(22:06):
When I was eight, i got aguitar, which is what I wanted
all along.
Joe Miller (22:12):
They forced you to do the piano first, right.
John Cordy (22:15):
Yeah, Yeah because I got that and I'd already
created a dent in my dad'sguitar When I was four.
We didn't let me play it.
I Think they also bought me aukulele, but I hit my brother
with it so they broke it.
So then age 14, so I did likethe traditional.
In the UK we have grades forpiano.
(22:36):
That makes sense, like exams,all that sort of stuff.
I did up to grade six by thetime I was 14.
It goes up to grade eight andthen that's like whatever level.
And at that age 14 I decidedI'd rather practice guitar, and
so I think because I Read thingsabout people like Steve I and
(23:03):
Joe Satryan and people like thatthat they had to practice a lot
.
So I just decided that Ipracticed for two hours every
day at age 14 and fit the restof my life like revision and
skateboarding around that.
At age 18, whatever I went touniversity and did Commercial
music it was called, but it wasa waste of time.
(23:25):
So I dropped out of that aftertwo years Because I learned
anything.
There's just a waste of money,anyway and then.
I went, so that was a transition, that was a supermarket
transition alright, so so.
Joe Miller (23:45):
John were you like Singing songs to the patrons as
they came in?
John Cordy (23:51):
No, i did.
I did still have so from, ithink I bought a proper computer
that I could record with and Dothe music stuff that I
basically do every day today.
But I did it from about the ageof 16 Because my parents
basically incentivized me to getgood grades by saying well, my
(24:12):
brother actually by saying ifyou get An A will give you a
hundred pounds.
My brother didn't really workfor him, he didn't provide I
just like that I'd revise andthen bankrupted.
So then I bought a computerwith that, which became the
thing I would record with allthe time and all through
University and even whilst I wasworking at a supermarket, i
(24:34):
would still record loads ofmusic.
But I didn't really have anoutlet for it because I was
working in a supermarket.
But I would occasionally likeput stuff online, like I think
sound click and Sound cloud isthe other one sound which came
later And I'd occasionally likesay to people well, this is some
stuff that I've recorded, youknow, like people do.
(24:55):
But yeah.
So then, yeah, working in thesupermarket that I got another
job and then in about 2015 I Gotthe idea really that It it made
more sense for me to try to domusic and earn less money than
(25:16):
to try to do Like the corporateworld or whatever and earn more
money but be miserable if thatmakes sense because it was like
From a young age, yeah.
So I then Basically started onthe road that I'm on now and I
(25:39):
think in my first year I madelike five thousand pounds.
Joe Miller (25:45):
I lived at home at the time.
John Cordy (25:47):
I lived at home for quite a while, but luckily my
parents were kind of supportivein that way and it's worked out
eventually.
Joe Miller (25:56):
Yeah, so that that actually wait.
What was the question?
Oh, so the question really washow did you, how did you really
make this transition?
that's the question I have inmy mind.
Oh yeah, you know, and you'vetaken us through your journey,
and but that one point where yousaid I, i decided That I'd be
(26:17):
much better off pursuing What Iwanted to do I'm putting words
in your mouth now, music Ratherthan do the corporate thing.
So was that a sort of anepiphany?
Did you get the bright sunshineon your head, or did you, but
did it take a while, or was itjust like you knew in your gut?
I mean, how did that?
how did that conclusion come toyou So?
John Cordy (26:40):
I was.
I I'd just start it Well, ithink it all sort of happened at
a similar sort of time.
But so I was in an originalsband at this sort of time.
But you'd only do a verylimited amount of gigs for this
sort of thing in the UK.
So when you're chasing thisidea of being like an assigned
(27:00):
originals band So I've worked areal job alongside that but I
would go stay at my friend'shouse and we had some relative
level of success.
So we were on Tom Clancy's JackRyan.
We were actually our music wasused during a suicide bombing at
(27:23):
a cafe, which is what I alwaysdreamed of, and what else?
Yeah, various kind of pieceslike that.
But the money for that sort ofstuff was always very slow to
come through, because if it'sroyalties and that sort of stuff
it takes a long time.
And alongside that I startedgoing to some open mic nights
(27:46):
and stuff like that in ExeterAnd from that a few
opportunities sort of came.
And in my job previously I hadto travel and kind of stay in
various places around the UK Andthere started to be this kind
of tension and a bit of a clashwhere I was like, well, i want
to do this gig, which is notgoing to have much money or it
(28:10):
might be like 30 quid or 50 quid, but it was fun, versus I could
go and stay away for a week inmy job.
So I just eventually decidedwell, even if there's not much
money in this music thing, it'sactually a bit more gratifying.
So I just said to my boss atthe time I think I want to try
(28:31):
and do the music thing.
Joe Miller (28:34):
So basically, the safety and security of a more
substantial, consistent paycheckwas getting in the way of your
passion.
Yeah.
John Cordy (28:45):
Yeah And like opportunities, but because I
hadn't really had It, hadn'treally occurred to me that you
could, that this other path oflike, that most musicians
actually go down with Thenon-traditional thing if that
makes sense, although it's like1% of people that can actually
(29:07):
make money with the traditionalthing.
But everyone else basicallymakes money doing the things
that every other guitaristbasically does for money,
whether that's teaching or goingout and playing gigs for normal
people that are just there tohear music at a wedding or
whatever.
And also that was the otherthing.
So I think as younger people orcertainly me as a younger
(29:32):
person I saw the kind of cover'sgig as a bit of a.
I used to look down on it, ithink.
And then once you've done a feworiginals gigs for no money
where you've driven across thecountry and you get paid nothing
you've already done three ofthem even So we supported a guy
(29:53):
in Bristol and Liverpool andLondon and playing to sort of
like 1,800 people and 900 peoplehere just supporting, but
there's no money, not even forfuel, and then you think alright
, I could play this wedding andyou get paid basically a good
amount of money.
It kind of made me think well,like the respect of originals,
(30:15):
music doesn't really translateto food on the table.
Joe Miller (30:19):
Right.
Well, like we talked aboutearlier, that situation has
changed a lot over the pastseveral decades.
A friend of mine which I alsointerviewed, Michael Ghetto,
which he's a pianist and acomposer and really in the new
age space, But earlier in hiscareer he put out like 11 albums
(30:40):
, And so in the US I don't knowif it's Well he's on Spotify and
a lot of different platforms.
If you go into any of thosekind of genre music, you'll see
him.
You'll see his older albumsbeing played, very, very well
known, And yet he couldn't makea living at that either, And so
(31:00):
he ended up teaching.
He took the teaching route.
So you do what you want to.
You do what you need to do.
If it's overlapping with orcongruent with your desire to be
a musician, That's great.
But I remember havingconversations with him about why
don't you do another album?
And he ended up doing one.
(31:21):
But he's like where you are now, He's like, oh no, I got to do
all these promotional things andI have to have all these other
income streams.
The world has changed a lotsince that, since those days,
And that percentage of peoplethat you're talking about has
gotten very thin that make moneythat traditional way, I think.
John Cordy (31:45):
Yeah, also, i think that's where most of the
attention gets spent, obviouslyfor obvious reasons.
But I think even at sort ofcollege level I think I wrote
like an essay for a piece ofcoursework about what the
(32:07):
musician, what my life as amusician, might be like, and
even back then I didn't reallyhave any idea of being like a
famous musician or whatever.
It was always about sort ofmultiple income streams and
multiple pies and fingers andthat sort of stuff.
So I think I've always kind ofknown that, especially as, like
(32:30):
my personality on stage andplaying has never been like
flamboyant or anything that isactually going to get attention.
So luckily, i think I alwaysknew that but I went away and
kind of did jobs that weren'tfun.
So that then when you come backto music and I tried to say
this to like younger friendsthat I might have as well that I
(32:53):
do think it's important to atleast try a real job And that
makes sense because there's anattitude.
I think that can come.
If you're always used to doingthese kind of function and
wedding gigs, that happens toeveryone.
I think you get quite jaded andtired of them and taken for
(33:14):
granted, but to me it's stillway more fun to be playing
covers than it is to be workingin the supermarket.
Joe Miller (33:23):
No doubt, No doubt, Absolutely.
And I think there's a lot ofpeople out there that kind of do
the hybrid thing too.
You know that haven't gone allin, but sort of they might be
doing the weekend gigs and havesort of a traditional job sort
of during the week.
So you know, however, you getyour that part of you filled.
(33:45):
I think it's a good thing.
But you know, you're a lotyounger than me, So I can see
that when you were in collegeand wrote your essay, that you
already knew was going to bemultiple streams of income When
I was your age, I was like, well, I'd already given up on being
a famous guitar player, Which isnot that good.
(34:05):
I just do.
I just have played a church onthe weekends for years and years
and years.
So that fulfills my musicalneed.
John Cordy (34:14):
I did that as well.
I forgot to mention that,didn't I?
That's OK, i was very shy as akid but we went to this church
that had quite an active kind ofmusic thingy, you know, like
sort of more on the what's theword?
you know, the more modern sideof church.
Joe Miller (34:36):
Contemporary.
John Cordy (34:37):
Yeah, that sort of thing, whatever the word would
be.
That's not a pejorative, Butthey were quite like accepting
and encouraging And although Iwas pretty shy, so I sort of
faced forward instead of to theYour stage presence is what
you're getting at right.
Yeah, yeah, that wasn't thething for me, but yeah, i got a
(35:01):
chance to.
I think that is kind ofimportant as well, and that's
one of the things that peopleoutside of the church I don't
think there's as muchopportunity for that, for
whatever reason, becauseeveryone, you know, just church
bands is a thing, isn't it?
So I played bass for years in achurch and guitar, so that was
(35:21):
kind of helpful, i think, interms of Getting used to
actually playing with people,and I would say, you know, if
there are people out there thathave had, you know, like you,
you have phases where you goaway from playing in a band or
whatever, i think at any stagewhere you want to come back to
it is, i think, still reallyWe're rewarding and fun.
(35:44):
Even, yeah, especially for me,like it's just a weekend stuff
is, i Don't know.
It kind of makes it make a bitof sense.
Joe Miller (35:52):
Well, and I have to say that you know, when I was
quite young, like and we calljunior high school here, i Had a
little bit of had.
We had a little band playing,you know, clapped in and Jimi
Hendrix, you know, kind ofdestroying those songs in our
own unique way.
But I Never really knew how toplay with other people until I I
(36:17):
got school.
We've lived in a number ofdifferent places in the US.
When we were a church inCalifornia, it was quite a
professional bass player therewho taught at Berkeley, and I
remember him in the middlerehearsal Turning to me and and
looking at me, giving me thelook, and later on walking up to
(36:37):
me, signal Joe, just becausethere's six strings Doesn't mean
you have to play every stringon the court.
And then he would say I thinkyou need to learn more
inversions.
He would also turn to themusical, the leader, the worship
pastor.
(36:57):
She was excellent on piano andNancy watches this, or Michael,
i get myself in trouble, but she, he would look at her and you
know what bass players say topiano players Get off the bass
line, right.
So anyway, i learned a lotabout how to play in a group, a
(37:18):
church, you know, so that youknow, i think.
Well, however, you get thatit's a very different thing than
playing in your bedroom orplaying, you know, for your own
enjoyment, to know how to playwith others and Yeah.
So anyway, that was sort of aninteresting segue.
Sorry, no, no, i, i enjoyed it.
(37:40):
So let's talk, let's, let's kindof take a take a different
direction here and sort of goback to This is the question I
asked.
So just about everybody thatare my guests is is usually
framed at what are the lessonslearned, or What advice would
you give to your younger self Ifyou were starting all over
(38:03):
again based on things you'velearned?
I know there's always more tolearn Based on things you've
learned.
If someone was in kind ofthinking about a career, music
or thinking about, or thinkingabout going in this direction,
what are some key things that wecould tell them, that you could
tell them, john?
John Cordy (38:23):
Okay.
So The first thing is thatpeople like young people, if
that makes sense.
So This is something I kind ofrealized now.
But I don't think that.
I don't think that university is, if you're gonna go down the
route of musician and that sortof stuff is necessarily The most
(38:46):
useful.
I think if you can get involvedwith people that are playing
music that are older than you,then that is at least as useful.
Making money doing it, if thatmakes sense, that's as least at
least as useful as getting intoSecondary education in it,
unless you need a degree forsomething.
(39:06):
But in any case you might aswell just do a degree in that
rather than in popular music.
That's been my experience ofthat and I've got a friend who's
actually at the age where hewould have been at university
and he didn't do that andinstead has been sort of gigging
, and I don't know if it's maybejust an isolated example, but
(39:31):
for me it looks to me that he'squite a lot further down the
path.
Then I would have been at thatage because obviously it took me
out of university and thenstarting basically back at zero
anyway to get back to that level, if that makes sense.
So I think if you can getinvolved whilst you're still
(39:52):
young, people do like youngpeople and that's, i think,
young people in a band.
I think mentoring, that sort ofthing happened and people are
looking for people to mentor.
It's just a way the world seemsto work.
So that would be that I'd saydo things rather than
(40:17):
overthinking things, and this is.
I was not the most outgoing kidand I know there was a jazz
school at my band I never gotinvolved with.
There were various bits andpieces that I just didn't get
involved with for whateverreason, and looking back,
probably I'd been in a betterposition if I'd said yes to a
(40:41):
few more things.
And whatever the reasons fornot doing a thing are, there are
probably a bunch more reasonswhy you would benefit if you
said yes to a few differentthings.
You know if they're positivethings, obviously.
Joe Miller (40:56):
So I have this, i had this thought I mean, is this
kind of in that space, so whywould you not do thing?
is it because you're playing ittoo safe, or could there be
other reasons?
John Cordy (41:10):
It could be that it could be that you're generally
shy, or it could also be thatyou're waiting for things to be
in a different state.
So this is a thing that maybe Ithought as a kid That I would
work on something for this longand then suddenly opportunities
(41:32):
would start to happen.
Actually, that's not how thingswork at all.
It turns out that as you putyourself out into the world,
kind of opportunities happen andyou grow along the way.
Like the journey is where thegrowth happens.
It doesn't really happen somuch in isolation, and that's
been true with the YouTube stuffas well.
You know, i could think youknow, like my production quality
(41:56):
or whatever is not good enough.
I'm going to wait untilwhatever.
But actually probably whilstyou're still working on your
thing, people aren't going tofind you that much anyway, but
as you go along the journey,people are following you along
for the journey.
It's just a thing.
You get better at things as yougo.
I think that's the case foreverything, right?
Joe Miller (42:18):
Right.
Right, i think that's been myexperience in other areas as
well is that we tend to not wantto step out until we think
we've nailed it and really giveway too much weight.
I mean, you have to practice,you have to work on your own
craft, but if you have themindset that it's it, you're
(42:42):
gonna do it all in isolation,and then you're gonna step out
and kind of hit the crest of thewave and surf your way in.
It doesn't work that way,because there's a there's a
really large percentage of myexperience of a positive
feedback loop, of being togetherand getting Homed by just doing
(43:03):
the thing with others in thereal world.
Does that make sense to you?
John Cordy (43:07):
Yeah, yeah is it resonating?
Joe Miller (43:09):
Yeah.
John Cordy (43:09):
Yeah, i think it's just Not being afraid or just
whatever the thing is.
That's meaning that you don'tnecessarily go out and, you know
, go to an open mic night Again.
The open mic night slash jamnight is for me where all of the
opportunities kind of came from.
Joe Miller (43:30):
Hmm.
John Cordy (43:31):
I'm assuming that most people are interested in
doing the like, the work at homeanyway, particularly if you're
like me, where you kind of likeyou didn't really want to go out
loads or you're a bit shy orYou're obsessed with guitar or
whatever but going out andmeeting people in these various
circumstances, so whether it'san open mic night or jam night,
(43:53):
that sort of stuff is wherestuff happened.
Or, equally, the online stuff IGuess is sort of similar, where
, yeah, instead of having towait until your thing is totally
perfect, by which point, youupload it and Only three people
are gonna see it anyway, mostlikely.
Yes, yes.
(44:14):
So I mean, for me it's morelike, well, each thing that you
put out, so whether this ismusic or videos now, is just
Like a mark of today.
Yeah, it's not.
It's not saying that this is aPerfect thing, it's just a thing
that is a point in time.
You let that thing go for me.
Joe Miller (44:38):
Yeah, i'm a.
I do coaching on the side.
You know, i've done career inexecutive coaching because I had
this whole other career intechnology.
But one of the things That weput out often as coaches
released I did was Challengingpeople to get off the outcome,
because if they're so focused onthe outcome, they think That
(45:02):
they want all the time They'remissing what's happening in the
now and there's learning in thenow and You don't really have
the best vision for what thespecifics of the outcome are
going to be anyway, because asyou go through the journey, you
change what you want.
You get clarity Yeah, what that, what that looks like and I
(45:24):
imagine that's Happened for youtoo, as you now your dad you
know.
So now you've got a factor thatin and that's part of your
overall best outcome, right, andDad of seven and a half doggies
or whatever.
Seven and three quarters, okay,only missing one leg on that
(45:46):
dog at K, yeah, so, yeah, ithink that's that's Really good
advice.
First thing you said was don'tthink that you have to go to
university for music.
Do the traditional thing.
And then we're talking nowabout it being a journey as well
, that the first one Goes backto a concept I, you know.
(46:08):
It's kind of programming orconditioning.
We hear so much about the wayit should be that we think we
have to follow a certain courseand In many, many people I've
talked to, they become, you know, a lawyer or an IT person or
something because Their parentstold them they would be good at
(46:28):
it or something you know, orthey they just thought they were
good at it, you know, or theythey just thought kind of
loosely about it and just wentdown that path and then Decades
into their, their journey.
They go really this kind ofsucks, i don't Know, and they
(46:49):
make a pretty big transition.
So For you it seems like it'sbeen more evolutionary, right,
and you might have taken someother turns and maybe shifted
things a little bit based uponwhat you've learned along the
way.
But You pretty much reportedtoward music from a very early
age, except for the, the grocerything.
John Cordy (47:10):
Yeah, that's, that's the music kind of was always
there, but I the universitything really kind of knocked me
off that path rather thanAnything else that was I.
I guess I made some really goodfriends there, but I think in
general.
But actually it was probably afair reflection of the industry
(47:34):
as well, in terms of, you know,a few people at university
Probably is going to benefitquite well and maybe those folks
are going to get into touringbands and stuff like that so
that there are people that canthrive in that environment.
But I Don't know, it's just forme It didn't really work.
Joe Miller (47:56):
I.
John Cordy (47:57):
Might as well have just done any other course at
university, really probably,because, yeah, probably even
more beneficial.
Joe Miller (48:07):
Well, i mean, it's just, you know, you come to
those conclusions and I thinkyou have to be kind with
yourself, you know.
That's the other thing too.
I think back about my careershifts.
I thought, well, you know, ispent, you know, many decades,
several decades, doing somethingthat I was successful at, but
it it burned me out.
You know, i was just.
I Was just what's theexpression?
smashed to bits.
(48:27):
I thought, the end of the day Iwas just, yeah, i was had no
energy, you know, i was justcompletely drained and I was
getting the financial rewards,but I Only kept doing it because
it took a ride for my family,you know.
But it wasn't giving me a lotof joy, that's for sure.
John Cordy (48:47):
Yeah, i also think there is a Like this is what I
meant earlier when I said aboutI couldn't advise anyone to to
follow my lead or whatever.
I don't think that There's somuch of everyone else's journey
which is totally not Saying yeah, if that makes sense.
(49:10):
So you know, someone else isprobably not gonna even want to
do a video every single day Or,like you know, 3000 videos
before they start gettinganywhere.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, in terms of relativesuccess, i'm probably like the
least successful person onYouTube versus work put in if
that makes sense.
So, but I Think at least yeah,i don't know What am I trying to
(49:35):
say about that.
Joe Miller (49:36):
I Forgotten well, i think what you're saying was
that Giving other people adviceand context of your own unique
journey is a little bit.
You have to think about it alittle bit, because not
everyone's lives are the same.
Now that never wired the same.
They're not the situation isnot the same right.
John Cordy (49:56):
Yeah, the thing that I've I've found that, i think,
is University true, probably isthat if you're gonna get good at
a thing, you have to find a wayto make it consistent, mm-hmm.
So you make it a thing that youare consistently gonna try to
do, and I had another thought.
(50:18):
This was gone.
Joe Miller (50:22):
That's what editing is for.
John Cordy (50:26):
You have to consistency, and then What am I
doing?
Joe Miller (50:35):
That's fine, but I think you have to be intentional
about About things, and I thinkalso that you have.
You talk, talk to us earlierabout the pattern.
You have the daily pattern.
You have right.
So you have an intention to the, to your own development, and
You've established a habit todoing that, and that provides
(50:58):
you with a structure In order tocontinue to work on your
mastery.
Today, did I ring a bell?
Go ahead, yeah.
John Cordy (51:06):
Yeah, the other thing, so what?
I guess it maybe goes hand inhand with it, but Generally with
anything, it's gonna requirelike That's a good amount of
work, if that makes sense.
Like probably before you seeWhat, before you hear of people
(51:27):
on YouTube, they've probablydone a load of Work that
gradually got them to where theyare or in whatever field
they're in.
Like there aren't really manyOvernight sudden success stories
or, although we see like thingsthat are viral or whatever,
probably there's had to be quitea vast amount of work
beforehand.
(51:48):
So the thing that has beenimportant for me is having a
really a really easy, clearworkflow, if that makes sense.
So basically, i can justliterally come into the room in
the morning and the thing thatI'm working on.
I'm not having to set up,there's no kind of blockages.
I just do the thing, and Ithink maybe that's probably the
(52:12):
same for other things as well.
But if you were trying to getgood at a thing, like you
wouldn't pack your guitar awayevery day if you wanted to play
it every day, right, becausethat would it would be a
blockage between you and doingthe thing.
Joe Miller (52:28):
If anything you can do yeah, anything could do to
remove the friction From yourintent Is a good thing to do.
You know it's it's havingeverything kind of the whole
pants distance, everything atthe ready, and you know if you
took all your your guitars andyou put them downstairs and Or
(52:48):
some other place and every timeyou had to think about it's kind
of like the workout thing.
You know, Well, I have thisgreat piece of gym equipment.
It's like three flights ofstairs away from me and And then
on the way up you know there'sthe coffee pot or the tea kettle
and there's this, the TV withthe remote, and You're basically
(53:09):
setting yourself up for failurerather than intentionally build
your workflow and yourenvironment to support your
intention.
John Cordy (53:16):
Yeah, i think as well part of the thing.
If you're gonna do a thing withany sort of scale, as in like
Thousands of hours spent doing athing, then probably naturally
some of these habits will startto form.
But I maybe, if you go into itwith the idea, if it's a new
thing that having a Workflowthat is gonna support you
(53:41):
spending loads of hours doing it, i think maybe that helps a bit
.
But that that was kind of thething where people ask me about
you know, how do you do that orhow do you do this, whatever
it's that every single day Ijust do the thing and that
naturally things have evolved ina way where there aren't as
many blockages to doing thething.
Yeah, yeah, where you're,naturally you'll you've become a
(54:04):
bit quicker at doing what'sgoing on.
Eventually you learn how tofocus the camera, which took to
me a lot of years.
I'm still gonna get it right upall the time, and that's the
other thing as well is that, asI said earlier, like each day,
it's just a representation ofthe thing.
So whether the project is,however long, i guess it'd be
(54:26):
different for different people,but All the thing is is the best
you could do in that moment.
It doesn't have to be the mostperfect thing in the world, and
not everyone in the world isgonna see what you did anyway.
So I tried to keep that in mind, that you don't want to block
The thing with too many thoughtsabout yeah, like you said the
(54:49):
outcome.
I guess that's the thing withsocial media as well.
Joe Miller (54:52):
Where?
John Cordy (54:52):
yeah, people are concerned about the amount of
numbers and stuff and I try toencourage people as well.
That is not really about thesuccess of one or two posts,
it's more about over time.
Yeah, that's what it's been forme anyway trying to Leave
enough things behind that peoplewill eventually.
Joe Miller (55:12):
Can't you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, having thelong view, absolutely, that's,
that's great.
Well, um, i Want to kind ofpivot, sir, as we were bringing
the plane in for a landing here,so to speak, because we've been
going for a while down tainted,but I love them, hopefully what
somebody else will connect withthem.
It'll be interesting to seewhat the retention graph is.
(55:33):
As to your earlier point,that's a scary thing.
But So how do people?
are there any projects?
you're doing your normal thingsright.
Are you working towardsanything else Or you just kind
of continuing to turn the crankon what you've been doing?
(55:53):
Obviously, you have a new baby,so that's a new project.
John Cordy (55:58):
This is one of those things and thought.
so, as you might be able totell, i have like certain habits
that are formed.
The thing that I don't have atthe moment a very good idea of
is how I would turn things intolike a larger project with like
(56:20):
more planning.
So all of my music stuff isimprovised, so I've become very
used to the idea of startingwith nothing and quite quickly
having something is not of anyvalue, but like something.
And then but I do sort of fearin some ways that I might be
missing out on other things thatif I, you know, had a larger
(56:43):
project, that makes sense.
So what I'm trying to thinkabout at the moment obviously
right now I'm just sort ofmaintaining is an idea of a
larger project in some way.
So probably for me it wouldn'tbe an album, because I don't
think there'd be much interestin it, but it might be in
something like a course withmore of a through line or you
(57:09):
know, something more planned or,yeah, makes sense.
But I'm trying to think in myhead about how my workflow at
the moment wouldn't reallysupport that.
I don't think, unless I'd haveto sit down and maybe talk to
someone about what, how I?
Joe Miller (57:27):
would make sense Well you have a huge content
library there.
The question is is there liketo your point?
is there a through line?
I'm sure there is, And but it'show to work that into your,
your current workflow.
John Cordy (57:45):
Yeah, well, i.
So there might be certain topic, topics like techniques, like
legato and guitar, for instancethat I'm sure I've got enough
stuff that I could do somethingon that topic.
But I wouldn't want to justreuse stuff, if that makes sense
, i want to try to present it ina different way.
(58:05):
So those are some thoughts thatI've got And I like a bit of a
blind spot for me personallywhere the larger project haven't
really got a sense of that atthe moment.
Joe Miller (58:17):
Yeah, Yeah, well, I think that asking your your your
followers.
So sometimes the advice I'veheard in this respect is to ask
them what they're interested in.
You know what, what, what havethey can add?
what would they like more of inthe form of a course?
(58:39):
And you know, I completelydifferent space, You know, in
sort of the leadershipmanagement space.
I've launched communities, paidcommunities in that space and
provide services to them,meetings and facilitate things.
But one of the things I'mlooking at doing is starting a
(59:01):
course for growing in leadershipand putting out polls saying
what are the key things youstruggle with.
You know so I don't know, Butthe advice I have seen out there
is put a poll out there, youknow, create a sort of an early
bird launch, you know, with theunderstanding that they will be
(59:23):
co developing the coursematerial with you for a
reasonable entry fee, foundingmember or whatever.
Those kinds of things can behelpful, I think.
John Cordy (59:35):
Yeah, for me.
I articulated this to one otherperson.
I think the idea would be thatI'd start off with one sort of
mini project That makes sense,so like a smaller thing, as a
proof of concept, that I couldactually do a project that spans
like days rather than just oneday.
(59:55):
Yeah, that looking beyond oneday for me at the moment is like
a challenge, i guess, exceptfor if I bank several things in
one day.
So for knowing that I actuallygot advice from Jack Gardner,
incredible guitarist on this,who had a baby, i think, maybe
(01:00:16):
like two, three years before,and he said I wish I had banked
some videos.
So I kind of took that on boardand then I had like 30 videos
that over time I had put away sothat eventually, when I got
stuck in hospital for five dayswith my wife and baby, that I
(01:00:37):
had that to fall back on.
So I think that probably showsthat the ability to bank a thing
.
It shows that you can lookforward a bit.
Joe Miller (01:00:46):
Yeah and small increments, right, yeah, yeah, i
just think that's exciting.
I'm sure there's.
I mean, a lot of people wouldbe interested in what you come
up with.
John Cordy (01:00:59):
So that's my.
It might be rubbish idea.
Joe Miller (01:01:01):
No, no, enough of that humility.
Yeah, It's great stuff.
John Cordy (01:01:06):
That is, yeah, one thing I definitely need to
figure out.
Joe Miller (01:01:10):
Well, this has been great.
I don't want to take up toomuch of your time.
I know it's quite a bit later.
I'm in Florida, so it's it's myafternoon, but it's getting
well into the evening for you.
So how, how should people reachyou?
Now?
I'm going in the in the shownotes in this, this YouTube
(01:01:31):
publication.
I also have an audio podcast.
I will include your path toyour YouTube channel.
Are there other places theyshould look for you?
I think you're on Instagram too, right?
Why don't you just call outsome of that information and
I'll embed it into this?
John Cordy (01:01:49):
So the main engine is YouTube.
So YouTubecom slash John NathanKordy.
That has been the thing thathas actually been more
interesting for me.
Instagram is there too And Ikind of post sort of clips and
stuff up there.
Joe Miller (01:02:06):
But mostly YouTube.
John Cordy (01:02:09):
Yeah, mostly YouTube and Instagram to me isn't as
interesting a place as YouTube.
You can actually hear whatsomeone thinks about stuff and
you can hear three minutes ofmusic if they choose to play
three minutes of boring Lagarde.
Yeah, the YouTube became a bitmore interesting to me because
(01:02:29):
it was yeah, you could do alonger video, you could talk
about ideas and people could askyou what was that thing that
you're doing there and you thatcould then create another video
idea.
So it's been quite nice in thatway.
It's self-saturating, but, yeah, so YouTube is basically the
main place.
Joe Miller (01:02:49):
Well, this has been great, John.
I really appreciate your timeand best of luck with the many
souls under your roof.
I appreciate you making timefrom some guy that reached out
as a little bit of a fanboy, Andfrom an old guy too.
see, age is a thing, but I keeprocking as best I can.
John Cordy (01:03:14):
Thanks for asking.
Joe Miller (01:03:15):
This has been great.
So, everyone, please encourageyou to go to John's YouTube
channel and do all the thingslike subscribe, share and
support his work.
It's great work.
I look forward to connectingwith you all again soon with the
next episode.
(01:03:35):
So thanks again, John, forbeing on Titans of Transition.
John Cordy (01:03:40):
Thanks, John.
The Naked Eye.
Joe Miller (00:36):
Welcome John to Titans of Transition.
Hello Joe, How are you doing?
John Cordy (00:41):
today.
I'm okay, it's sunny.
Joe Miller (00:48):
So let's talk places .
You're in the UK.
Do you say the UK or GreatBritain?
What do you guys prefer?
England, england?
I missed it totally.
What part are you in?
John Cordy (01:04):
So London.
I can't do it with a reversemirror, but so it's called the
Southwest and it's basicallylike the farming part of England
.
So yeah, It's the South West.
Exeter is the closest city andit's about four hours from
London.
Joe Miller (01:22):
Four hours.
So is that a four hour drive?
I mean, you're talking aboutderiving, right?
Yeah, not train or something.
Yeah, okay, cool.
Well, listen, i'm really happyto have you on the podcast today
And, just for background, ifound you because I'm a
guitarist, an old guitarist, andI've spent way too much time on
(01:45):
YouTube perusing differentmaterial But and there's a ton
of people out there producingcontent, but I really connected
with yours and we'll get intothat a little bit more later on.
But I'm just kind of curious.
I thought it would be goodbecause to really drill into
what it's like these days to bea working musician, because you
(02:09):
know, back when I was growing upand when I started playing
guitar, i had my dreams of beinga rock and roll star And I
always thought that, well, youknow, i have to get a band and
we have to get sort of known,get some music out, maybe a
label will pick us up, and theneverything will be like Nirvana
you know well, not the bandNirvana, but they'll all be
wonderful, but it's verydifferent today, and so maybe
(02:32):
just talk to us a little bitabout that.
We'll get into your backgroundlater on, but I thought it'd be
nice to start with kind of whatyou're doing, what's part of
your business right now,elements of it.
Okay.
John Cordy (02:44):
So essentially on the weekends I guess my job
looks a lot like quite a lot ofprofessional or
semi-professional guitarists atwhatever level.
So that'll be kind of playingin function bands for mostly
like weddings and that sort ofstuff.
And, like you say, i thinkgrowing up maybe that wasn't the
(03:08):
dream at all And maybe you'dthink you know the traditional
route is mostly what we hearabout and you know things like
you know getting signed and allthose things that you talked
about there.
But the reality I think isprobably for most people a
little bit different.
If you are doing the thing andyou're not part of like the less
(03:31):
than 1% that do thattraditional route, i think
probably the lion's share ofmusicians tend to be either
doing kind of function gigs ortouring at various levels, and
then there's a lot of folks thatI know that do kind of like the
online studio kind of stuff.
For me, most of my time isspent kind of making videos in
(03:56):
my bedroom.
Joe Miller (03:57):
Yeah, and you?
I mean you pump them out, imean you're averaging, i mean I
see at least a couple a day,many days.
John Cordy (04:06):
So one transition happened recently.
I had a daughter, yes, and I'vegone from doing two a day to
one a day, and I think that'sprobably more reasonable anyway,
but since about 2019, i wasdoing two, sometimes three, a
day.
The main reason I do it, to behonest, is just so that I have
(04:29):
an excuse to play guitar andcreate something every day, but
yeah, Yeah.
Joe Miller (04:36):
So since you're doing it anyway, you figure,
well, why not?
right?
Yeah, Why not put it out there?
And again talking about what itmeans to sort of make a living
this way.
There's multiple streams ofincome.
I know you have obviouslypeople used to think you could
make a lot of money, likeAdSense revenue, off of YouTube.
(04:58):
That's not so much the case now, until you get really enormous.
But you also have a Patreonpage.
We also hope people will buyyou a coffee, make a donation,
But why don't you talk aboutsome of the other things you do?
Okay?
John Cordy (05:13):
Yeah.
So before lockdown, i would saymost of my money was from the
kind of function gigging, and sothe thing with that is that you
basically you have like alimited amount that you can do.
right, you can do maybe five,six gigs a week, and that
(05:33):
involves a lot of travelinggenerally Around the UK.
I used to be driving to andfrom these gigs and you get back
home at like two o'clock.
Once lockdown happened, ithappened hand in hand that the
online stuff had kind of startedto grow to a level where they
were starting to meet in themiddle.
(05:55):
So basically my streams ofincome are, as you say, the
YouTube ad revenue, patreon, theBuy Me A Coffee thing, the gig
money, and then I guess I alsosell presets for like the bits
of gear that I use.
And then a tiny bit of moneyoccasionally comes from
companies who sponsor.
(06:17):
like they might ask if I do ademo of a piece of gear, and I
generally say no to those ordon't respond.
And then actually True Fire,True Fire as well, true Fire.
yeah, that's a nice thing aswell.
So they came to me, i thinkbecause of Keith from Firefork
World said this guy does a thing, and it kind of made sense
(06:41):
because there's a mixture ofstuff on my channel from kind of
like I tried to do two lessonsa week, basically, or lesson
type videos, so it's not alljust based on gear.
hopefully some of it is sort ofuseful for someone.
But yeah, true Fire obviously.
then basically I run an advertat the start of every video and
(07:04):
they pay me some amount of moneyfor that, which helps.
Joe Miller (07:09):
And so a lot of people.
I'm sure there are many peopleconsuming content across your
YouTube channel and others.
They're like, oh, that's great.
Oh, that's good, I'll take thatThat was a great lesson.
And they don't realize thatthat actually is kind of one leg
(07:29):
of your stool, so to speak, foryour revenue.
So it's nice.
I do see great engagement onyour channel.
People say nice things.
Hopefully they also support you.
John Cordy (07:43):
Yeah, yeah, i'm quite lucky.
I think that generally, thepeople that happen across the
channel and stay on it aregenerally polite.
Joe Miller (07:54):
That's great.
So a typical day then, i mean.
So I was curious about this.
What kind of obviously with anewborn.
How old is she now?
She's 18 weeks, i think, andyour wife's name.
John Cordy (08:11):
Liana.
Joe Miller (08:12):
Liana and your daughter's name Lenny.
Lenny, okay, and yourdaughter's name.
John Cordy (08:17):
Elodie.
Joe Miller (08:19):
Say that again.
John Cordy (08:20):
Elodie, so like Melody without the L.
Joe Miller (08:22):
Oh, very nice, Very nice, And so obviously that
takes priority.
So if you're in the middle ofdoing something and you get the
hand off, you have to deal withit.
But generally speaking, youwake up, you have an idea what
you're going to work on, or youjust say well, I'm kind of
curious about this thing.
I saw from another artist And Ithink I'll dig into that and
(08:46):
start recording.
Just kind of curious how thatworks for you.
John Cordy (08:50):
Okay so there's a few things.
So I kind of take film notes onmy mobile phone of ideas, if
they happen to be a thing Ithink I might want to remember,
and so generally this might belike a new kind of pattern or
something like that.
So I take a film with that andI think, right, i might be able
(09:13):
to use that for a lesson at somepoint.
That's one kind of thing.
So that's kind of the mostplanned stuff that I do And
other things I might see in artschool that I think is
interesting.
So I might see something thatsomeone that I am inspired by as
(09:33):
a guitarist So sometimes Iemail those to myself and say
make a video on this, and so Ihave this bank of ideas, really
that kind of floats around.
But I also have these keytopics that I'm interested in,
so it might be specific piecesof gear like amp modeling
devices or certain guitars orcertain guitarists.
(09:57):
I think this is probably commonwith every single thing.
You start to develop your ownniche the more you do it, and so
my actual day goes like I getup generally about 7.30 and most
of the morning now up untilabout nine o'clock is involving
like cleaning bottles and stuffand getting stuff ready.
(10:19):
I sometimes get a chance tojust play some guitar then, but
not loads.
And then nine o'clock I feedthe dogs And then I start on
something.
So generally each video willstart with me just sitting in
front of a camera with a clicktrack going and I basically
(10:40):
start the video, like you mighthave seen in the intro, and then
I kind of put the music aroundit So I record with that click
track and I put in drums and allthat sort of stuff Play a solo
over it, sometimes before I'vedone the rest of it, and that is
kind of that's the engine ofwhy I do any of this at all.
So that moment is what I doYouTube for, if that makes sense
(11:04):
.
Yes, because that's the thingthat I want to want to do and
thought that I would do as a kid.
It just happens that no oneelse really needs that stuff.
It's just I'm doing it forYouTube, if that makes sense.
Joe Miller (11:16):
Well, i think I disagree a little bit.
I think a lot of people givevalue out of that.
John Cordy (11:20):
I mean, it seems like you know it's more like the
traditional, like someone gaveme a brief and said oh, yeah
it's just yeah, whatever, it'sjust like a bit of creativity
and a chance for me to playguitar every day, basically.
And then after that it generallywill be what was the topic for
(11:42):
this video?
What am I thinking about?
It might have been that I justhad a gig last night and I was
thinking, well, this happened orthat happened.
It's all quite spontaneous,like just based on stuff that's
either happening in my life orthat I've seen basically through
the day, and then put thattogether.
So I think generally that therecording, the music part of it,
(12:03):
generally takes not so muchtime, and then the next part,
you know mumbling to a cameraand then editing it together,
takes a bit more time.
So it maybe takes sort of two,three hours overall, sometimes
less than that, sometimes more,depending on how involved it
(12:24):
might be.
And if it's sort of the lessontype stuff, there's often then
like quite a lot of work thathas to go into creating the
stuff that people can then, youknow, follow along with and all
that sort of stuff.
So that's kind of then that'sthe video for the day part done.
I have to go, you know I takeit all downstairs and then I
(12:46):
upload it from there and createa thumbnail and that sort of
stuff.
Yeah, and sometimes thatactually I can use that moment
if I was, for instance workingon new songs.
Sometimes I would use so for agig.
For instance, i would use thefirst part of the video where I
(13:08):
do the creating music stuff.
I might take an idea that I'vebeen working on like it might be
a song by Prince or somethingand just sort of sneak it in, so
that way you kind of get.
Joe Miller (13:24):
Back for your buck.
Yeah.
One thing, two benefits, yeahabsolutely Two birds, one stone.
That's what I'm searching for.
John Cordy (13:33):
Yeah, something less aggressive to the birds maybe,
but then the rest of the dayfrom there.
These days I'm not getting asmuch time to actually play
guitar as I used to, but I thinkthat's made part of growing up.
So then, answering questionsfor people via email, that sort
(13:54):
of thing Does that tend to belate at night.
Joe Miller (13:58):
Sorry, does that tend to be late at night?
John Cordy (14:01):
No no.
I don't do it at night, i try to.
Night is the time for relaxing,because obviously Well, not
obviously, because no one'sgoing to know who I am, but I do
this every single day.
I don't actually take a day off, so I try to at least not be
working on stuff too much atnight, unless my wife is working
(14:23):
on something else.
Then I might go and just startand do another kind of recording
in the night or something likethat.
Then I guess if I had newmaterial to work on for sets
that were upcoming, that wouldbe.
I'd kind of do that in the dayafter I've done the video, if
(14:44):
that makes sense, or if I'mgoing away, like I just went
away for a few days to Wales.
You may have heard of it.
Joe Miller (14:51):
What was it?
You did some weddings.
John Cordy (14:53):
Wales.
Joe Miller (14:54):
No, i have heard of Wales, but I'm thinking, maybe
Are you talking about yourweekend gig You did recently.
No, we just went on holiday fora couple days You actually went
on actual holiday.
John Cordy (15:04):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, i say holiday.
It doesn't feel like a holidayanymore, but so we went, Yeah.
So basically it meant that Ihad to then bank videos
beforehand, yeah, and that sortof stuff.
That makes sense.
So that's what the day is thenused for.
Joe Miller (15:25):
So it's rinse and repeat, then right, basically.
John Cordy (15:29):
Essentially yeah, And then sometimes I might get a
chance to just play guitardownstairs or something like
that.
That's kind of my holiday.
Joe Miller (15:37):
There you go, there you go.
Well, you mentioned a fewminutes ago about it kind of
coming to establish a little bitof a niche.
One of the things that Iconnected with was how you were
working with various differentmodelers And you did a number of
(15:58):
episodes talking about theraging debate between amp versus
modelers And then you usedifferent modelers.
You did your Helix stuff, whichyou use most often, i think,
fractal.
You looked at Kemper alldifferent kinds of modelers And
(16:19):
actually showing people how youdial in your tones, which you
don't often get that specificwhen I look at other creators
out there.
So that's, i think, really ahigh value for guitarists is to
see what you're workingspecifically on to get kind of
really good tone and makingsuggestions.
(16:39):
So obviously you're doing this.
You're kind of chasing your owninterest by looking at these
other devices but at the sametime or answering your own
questions.
So you've done that with modelsand you also have done the
episodes kind of comparingcontrasting guitars And I think
most recently you did an episodekind of a couple of them
(17:03):
talking about do you really needto spend this much money on
this super high end pro guitarAnd does it really make a
difference.
So those are all really greattopics.
John Cordy (17:14):
Yeah, i think that's been the thing that I've tried,
so with all of the stuff.
So in particular there arevideos from back in the day
where I'm kind of talkingthrough stuff, or I might not
even have been talking throughstuff, so I would just upload
(17:34):
kind of videos with me playingguitar And none of that stuff
really connected.
And it's kind of obvious to menow because there's loads of
people doing that.
And, like you said, if you'retalking about a piece of gear,
to me it makes most sense thatpeople could hear the thing and
then if you're going to talkabout the thing, you might as
(17:55):
well show them how you got thatresult And then in that way at
least you've not wasted all ofthat time.
So that's kind of the thinkingfor me was that I can, with all
of these things I can prettymuch show you on the screen
exactly what to do, andhopefully that means that you
can get something out of thevideo rather than just be me
(18:17):
going well, here's the thing.
You could buy it if you want ornot.
Joe Miller (18:21):
It's more that, well , i guess I've made this video
And if enough people find ituseful, then sort of the money
will generate itself anyway, ifthat makes sense, yeah, and I
mean, as I've looked intomonetization, you know, a lot of
times the leaders in this fieldtalk about you deliver the what
(18:42):
, give the value, but don't giveaway all of it, right, and so
that's a great example you justtalked about where you have, you
know, i can think of what yourhelix stop when you're dialing
the tones in.
You know, and I'm looking at thescreen going, i think I can see
what he's doing And then lotsof times just say, but you know,
(19:05):
if you want it, gum, road orwherever you sell your stuff,
you can, you can grab it, youcan grab that preset, and I
think a lot of people do.
But the, i think the moreimportant thing you just talked
about was just playing the musicsometimes doesn't really
connect and give you a following, but sharing your actual
(19:25):
journey, you know, musicaljourney, life journey I mean you
talked about your doggies,right.
So I mean sometimes it's I'vehad to take my iPad over and
show my wife he's a musician, bythe way And I said look, look,
look at these dogs jumping up inhis lap when he's trying to
play.
You know which, i think, is itconnects.
(19:46):
You know it really connects topeople.
There's a human being on theother side of that TV screen or
that computer screen.
John Cordy (19:54):
I think that's a thing as well, that people often
talk about no-transcript.
I think it's an easy thing totry to get across, but I think
in so many ways it's also supereasy to get a Bit wrong.
Does that make sense, like it's?
I know people Probably know it,but I think you have to find
(20:16):
your way To actually doing itwhere it doesn't feel super
forced.
And yeah, i get people sort ofask about various things You
know, like should they startYouTube and stuff like that?
and for me the answer is that,absolutely, my life would have
been totally different if Ihadn't.
But equally, i couldn'trecommend to anyone else that
(20:39):
you should make one or twovideos every single day, if I.
Joe Miller (20:44):
I'm walking into two a month.
John Cordy (20:46):
Yeah, it's not a scalable model for most people,
so it's a bit of a weird onewhere It is what it worked for
me.
So, but that's what I mean,like in terms of Trying to keep
that in mind as well, with allof the various things like it's.
Joe Miller (21:02):
Yeah, i don't know, yeah, no, but I think you
touched on another thing too,that's you know you can't force
it has to be authentic, rightAnd and and that's it certainly
is.
For you It's kind of likefinding your musical voice.
You know, you have to find outwhat your, your tone is.
You had to find out Do your ownexpression once you get to a
certain point.
So this is actually a goodplace to segue this kind of
(21:25):
behind-the-scenes discussion ofJohn and his typical day.
And, and Let me ask you, how,how did you get to where you are
?
so Did you go to when you werein school?
Well, let me back up evenfurther.
Do you come from a musicalfamily?
John Cordy (21:45):
So yes, so my mom and dad.
So my mom plays saxophone, mydad plays trombone, and My
myself and my brother.
So we grew up on a farm.
We didn't have much money, butthe money that mom and dad did
have, they spent on pianolessons for us.
So, like from the age of five,i had piano lessons.
(22:06):
When I was eight, i got aguitar, which is what I wanted
all along.
Joe Miller (22:12):
They forced you to do the piano first, right.
John Cordy (22:15):
Yeah, Yeah because I got that and I'd already
created a dent in my dad'sguitar When I was four.
We didn't let me play it.
I Think they also bought me aukulele, but I hit my brother
with it so they broke it.
So then age 14, so I did likethe traditional.
In the UK we have grades forpiano.
(22:36):
That makes sense, like exams,all that sort of stuff.
I did up to grade six by thetime I was 14.
It goes up to grade eight andthen that's like whatever level.
And at that age 14 I decidedI'd rather practice guitar, and
so I think because I Read thingsabout people like Steve I and
(23:03):
Joe Satryan and people like thatthat they had to practice a lot
.
So I just decided that Ipracticed for two hours every
day at age 14 and fit the restof my life like revision and
skateboarding around that.
At age 18, whatever I went touniversity and did Commercial
music it was called, but it wasa waste of time.
(23:25):
So I dropped out of that aftertwo years Because I learned
anything.
There's just a waste of money,anyway and then.
I went, so that was a transition, that was a supermarket
transition alright, so so.
Joe Miller (23:45):
John were you like Singing songs to the patrons as
they came in?
John Cordy (23:51):
No, i did.
I did still have so from, ithink I bought a proper computer
that I could record with and Dothe music stuff that I
basically do every day today.
But I did it from about the ageof 16 Because my parents
basically incentivized me to getgood grades by saying well, my
(24:12):
brother actually by saying ifyou get An A will give you a
hundred pounds.
My brother didn't really workfor him, he didn't provide I
just like that I'd revise andthen bankrupted.
So then I bought a computerwith that, which became the
thing I would record with allthe time and all through
University and even whilst I wasworking at a supermarket, i
(24:34):
would still record loads ofmusic.
But I didn't really have anoutlet for it because I was
working in a supermarket.
But I would occasionally likeput stuff online, like I think
sound click and Sound cloud isthe other one sound which came
later And I'd occasionally likesay to people well, this is some
stuff that I've recorded, youknow, like people do.
(24:55):
But yeah.
So then, yeah, working in thesupermarket that I got another
job and then in about 2015 I Gotthe idea really that It it made
more sense for me to try to domusic and earn less money than
(25:16):
to try to do Like the corporateworld or whatever and earn more
money but be miserable if thatmakes sense because it was like
From a young age, yeah.
So I then Basically started onthe road that I'm on now and I
(25:39):
think in my first year I madelike five thousand pounds.
Joe Miller (25:45):
I lived at home at the time.
John Cordy (25:47):
I lived at home for quite a while, but luckily my
parents were kind of supportivein that way and it's worked out
eventually.
Joe Miller (25:56):
Yeah, so that that actually wait.
What was the question?
Oh, so the question really washow did you, how did you really
make this transition?
that's the question I have inmy mind.
Oh yeah, you know, and you'vetaken us through your journey,
and but that one point where yousaid I, i decided That I'd be
(26:17):
much better off pursuing What Iwanted to do I'm putting words
in your mouth now, music Ratherthan do the corporate thing.
So was that a sort of anepiphany?
Did you get the bright sunshineon your head, or did you, but
did it take a while, or was itjust like you knew in your gut?
I mean, how did that?
how did that conclusion come toyou So?
John Cordy (26:40):
I was.
I I'd just start it Well, ithink it all sort of happened at
a similar sort of time.
But so I was in an originalsband at this sort of time.
But you'd only do a verylimited amount of gigs for this
sort of thing in the UK.
So when you're chasing thisidea of being like an assigned
(27:00):
originals band So I've worked areal job alongside that but I
would go stay at my friend'shouse and we had some relative
level of success.
So we were on Tom Clancy's JackRyan.
We were actually our music wasused during a suicide bombing at
(27:23):
a cafe, which is what I alwaysdreamed of, and what else?
Yeah, various kind of pieceslike that.
But the money for that sort ofstuff was always very slow to
come through, because if it'sroyalties and that sort of stuff
it takes a long time.
And alongside that I startedgoing to some open mic nights
(27:46):
and stuff like that in ExeterAnd from that a few
opportunities sort of came.
And in my job previously I hadto travel and kind of stay in
various places around the UK Andthere started to be this kind
of tension and a bit of a clashwhere I was like, well, i want
to do this gig, which is notgoing to have much money or it
(28:10):
might be like 30 quid or 50 quid, but it was fun, versus I could
go and stay away for a week inmy job.
So I just eventually decidedwell, even if there's not much
money in this music thing, it'sactually a bit more gratifying.
So I just said to my boss atthe time I think I want to try
(28:31):
and do the music thing.
Joe Miller (28:34):
So basically, the safety and security of a more
substantial, consistent paycheckwas getting in the way of your
passion.
Yeah.
John Cordy (28:45):
Yeah And like opportunities, but because I
hadn't really had It, hadn'treally occurred to me that you
could, that this other path oflike, that most musicians
actually go down with Thenon-traditional thing if that
makes sense, although it's like1% of people that can actually
(29:07):
make money with the traditionalthing.
But everyone else basicallymakes money doing the things
that every other guitaristbasically does for money,
whether that's teaching or goingout and playing gigs for normal
people that are just there tohear music at a wedding or
whatever.
And also that was the otherthing.
So I think as younger people orcertainly me as a younger
(29:32):
person I saw the kind of cover'sgig as a bit of a.
I used to look down on it, ithink.
And then once you've done a feworiginals gigs for no money
where you've driven across thecountry and you get paid nothing
you've already done three ofthem even So we supported a guy
(29:53):
in Bristol and Liverpool andLondon and playing to sort of
like 1,800 people and 900 peoplehere just supporting, but
there's no money, not even forfuel, and then you think alright
, I could play this wedding andyou get paid basically a good
amount of money.
It kind of made me think well,like the respect of originals,
(30:15):
music doesn't really translateto food on the table.
Joe Miller (30:19):
Right.
Well, like we talked aboutearlier, that situation has
changed a lot over the pastseveral decades.
A friend of mine which I alsointerviewed, Michael Ghetto,
which he's a pianist and acomposer and really in the new
age space, But earlier in hiscareer he put out like 11 albums
(30:40):
, And so in the US I don't knowif it's Well he's on Spotify and
a lot of different platforms.
If you go into any of thosekind of genre music, you'll see
him.
You'll see his older albumsbeing played, very, very well
known, And yet he couldn't makea living at that either, And so
(31:00):
he ended up teaching.
He took the teaching route.
So you do what you want to.
You do what you need to do.
If it's overlapping with orcongruent with your desire to be
a musician, That's great.
But I remember havingconversations with him about why
don't you do another album?
And he ended up doing one.
(31:21):
But he's like where you are now, He's like, oh no, I got to do
all these promotional things andI have to have all these other
income streams.
The world has changed a lotsince that, since those days,
And that percentage of peoplethat you're talking about has
gotten very thin that make moneythat traditional way, I think.
John Cordy (31:45):
Yeah, also, i think that's where most of the
attention gets spent, obviouslyfor obvious reasons.
But I think even at sort ofcollege level I think I wrote
like an essay for a piece ofcoursework about what the
(32:07):
musician, what my life as amusician, might be like, and
even back then I didn't reallyhave any idea of being like a
famous musician or whatever.
It was always about sort ofmultiple income streams and
multiple pies and fingers andthat sort of stuff.
So I think I've always kind ofknown that, especially as, like
(32:30):
my personality on stage andplaying has never been like
flamboyant or anything that isactually going to get attention.
So luckily, i think I alwaysknew that but I went away and
kind of did jobs that weren'tfun.
So that then when you come backto music and I tried to say
this to like younger friendsthat I might have as well that I
(32:53):
do think it's important to atleast try a real job And that
makes sense because there's anattitude.
I think that can come.
If you're always used to doingthese kind of function and
wedding gigs, that happens toeveryone.
I think you get quite jaded andtired of them and taken for
(33:14):
granted, but to me it's stillway more fun to be playing
covers than it is to be workingin the supermarket.
Joe Miller (33:23):
No doubt, No doubt, Absolutely.
And I think there's a lot ofpeople out there that kind of do
the hybrid thing too.
You know that haven't gone allin, but sort of they might be
doing the weekend gigs and havesort of a traditional job sort
of during the week.
So you know, however, you getyour that part of you filled.
(33:45):
I think it's a good thing.
But you know, you're a lotyounger than me, So I can see
that when you were in collegeand wrote your essay, that you
already knew was going to bemultiple streams of income When
I was your age, I was like, well, I'd already given up on being
a famous guitar player, Which isnot that good.
(34:05):
I just do.
I just have played a church onthe weekends for years and years
and years.
So that fulfills my musicalneed.
John Cordy (34:14):
I did that as well.
I forgot to mention that,didn't I?
That's OK, i was very shy as akid but we went to this church
that had quite an active kind ofmusic thingy, you know, like
sort of more on the what's theword?
you know, the more modern sideof church.
Joe Miller (34:36):
Contemporary.
John Cordy (34:37):
Yeah, that sort of thing, whatever the word would
be.
That's not a pejorative, Butthey were quite like accepting
and encouraging And although Iwas pretty shy, so I sort of
faced forward instead of to theYour stage presence is what
you're getting at right.
Yeah, yeah, that wasn't thething for me, but yeah, i got a
(35:01):
chance to.
I think that is kind ofimportant as well, and that's
one of the things that peopleoutside of the church I don't
think there's as muchopportunity for that, for
whatever reason, becauseeveryone, you know, just church
bands is a thing, isn't it?
So I played bass for years in achurch and guitar, so that was
(35:21):
kind of helpful, i think, interms of Getting used to
actually playing with people,and I would say, you know, if
there are people out there thathave had, you know, like you,
you have phases where you goaway from playing in a band or
whatever, i think at any stagewhere you want to come back to
it is, i think, still reallyWe're rewarding and fun.
(35:44):
Even, yeah, especially for me,like it's just a weekend stuff
is, i Don't know.
It kind of makes it make a bitof sense.
Joe Miller (35:52):
Well, and I have to say that you know, when I was
quite young, like and we calljunior high school here, i Had a
little bit of had.
We had a little band playing,you know, clapped in and Jimi
Hendrix, you know, kind ofdestroying those songs in our
own unique way.
But I Never really knew how toplay with other people until I I
(36:17):
got school.
We've lived in a number ofdifferent places in the US.
When we were a church inCalifornia, it was quite a
professional bass player therewho taught at Berkeley, and I
remember him in the middlerehearsal Turning to me and and
looking at me, giving me thelook, and later on walking up to
(36:37):
me, signal Joe, just becausethere's six strings Doesn't mean
you have to play every stringon the court.
And then he would say I thinkyou need to learn more
inversions.
He would also turn to themusical, the leader, the worship
pastor.
(36:57):
She was excellent on piano andNancy watches this, or Michael,
i get myself in trouble, but she, he would look at her and you
know what bass players say topiano players Get off the bass
line, right.
So anyway, i learned a lotabout how to play in a group, a
(37:18):
church, you know, so that youknow, i think.
Well, however, you get thatit's a very different thing than
playing in your bedroom orplaying, you know, for your own
enjoyment, to know how to playwith others and Yeah.
So anyway, that was sort of aninteresting segue.
Sorry, no, no, i, i enjoyed it.
(37:40):
So let's talk, let's, let's kindof take a take a different
direction here and sort of goback to This is the question I
asked.
So just about everybody thatare my guests is is usually
framed at what are the lessonslearned, or What advice would
you give to your younger self Ifyou were starting all over
(38:03):
again based on things you'velearned?
I know there's always more tolearn Based on things you've
learned.
If someone was in kind ofthinking about a career, music
or thinking about, or thinkingabout going in this direction,
what are some key things that wecould tell them, that you could
tell them, john?
John Cordy (38:23):
Okay.
So The first thing is thatpeople like young people, if
that makes sense.
So This is something I kind ofrealized now.
But I don't think that.
I don't think that university is, if you're gonna go down the
route of musician and that sortof stuff is necessarily The most
(38:46):
useful.
I think if you can get involvedwith people that are playing
music that are older than you,then that is at least as useful.
Making money doing it, if thatmakes sense, that's as least at
least as useful as getting intoSecondary education in it,
unless you need a degree forsomething.
(39:06):
But in any case you might aswell just do a degree in that
rather than in popular music.
That's been my experience ofthat and I've got a friend who's
actually at the age where hewould have been at university
and he didn't do that andinstead has been sort of gigging
, and I don't know if it's maybejust an isolated example, but
(39:31):
for me it looks to me that he'squite a lot further down the
path.
Then I would have been at thatage because obviously it took me
out of university and thenstarting basically back at zero
anyway to get back to that level, if that makes sense.
So I think if you can getinvolved whilst you're still
(39:52):
young, people do like youngpeople and that's, i think,
young people in a band.
I think mentoring, that sort ofthing happened and people are
looking for people to mentor.
It's just a way the world seemsto work.
So that would be that I'd saydo things rather than
(40:17):
overthinking things, and this is.
I was not the most outgoing kidand I know there was a jazz
school at my band I never gotinvolved with.
There were various bits andpieces that I just didn't get
involved with for whateverreason, and looking back,
probably I'd been in a betterposition if I'd said yes to a
(40:41):
few more things.
And whatever the reasons fornot doing a thing are, there are
probably a bunch more reasonswhy you would benefit if you
said yes to a few differentthings.
You know if they're positivethings, obviously.
Joe Miller (40:56):
So I have this, i had this thought I mean, is this
kind of in that space, so whywould you not do thing?
is it because you're playing ittoo safe, or could there be
other reasons?
John Cordy (41:10):
It could be that it could be that you're generally
shy, or it could also be thatyou're waiting for things to be
in a different state.
So this is a thing that maybe Ithought as a kid That I would
work on something for this longand then suddenly opportunities
(41:32):
would start to happen.
Actually, that's not how thingswork at all.
It turns out that as you putyourself out into the world,
kind of opportunities happen andyou grow along the way.
Like the journey is where thegrowth happens.
It doesn't really happen somuch in isolation, and that's
been true with the YouTube stuffas well.
You know, i could think youknow, like my production quality
(41:56):
or whatever is not good enough.
I'm going to wait untilwhatever.
But actually probably whilstyou're still working on your
thing, people aren't going tofind you that much anyway, but
as you go along the journey,people are following you along
for the journey.
It's just a thing.
You get better at things as yougo.
I think that's the case foreverything, right?
Joe Miller (42:18):
Right.
Right, i think that's been myexperience in other areas as
well is that we tend to not wantto step out until we think
we've nailed it and really giveway too much weight.
I mean, you have to practice,you have to work on your own
craft, but if you have themindset that it's it, you're
(42:42):
gonna do it all in isolation,and then you're gonna step out
and kind of hit the crest of thewave and surf your way in.
It doesn't work that way,because there's a there's a
really large percentage of myexperience of a positive
feedback loop, of being togetherand getting Homed by just doing
(43:03):
the thing with others in thereal world.
Does that make sense to you?
John Cordy (43:07):
Yeah, yeah is it resonating?
Joe Miller (43:09):
Yeah.
John Cordy (43:09):
Yeah, i think it's just Not being afraid or just
whatever the thing is.
That's meaning that you don'tnecessarily go out and, you know
, go to an open mic night Again.
The open mic night slash jamnight is for me where all of the
opportunities kind of came from.
Joe Miller (43:30):
Hmm.
John Cordy (43:31):
I'm assuming that most people are interested in
doing the like, the work at homeanyway, particularly if you're
like me, where you kind of likeyou didn't really want to go out
loads or you're a bit shy orYou're obsessed with guitar or
whatever but going out andmeeting people in these various
circumstances, so whether it'san open mic night or jam night,
(43:53):
that sort of stuff is wherestuff happened.
Or, equally, the online stuff IGuess is sort of similar, where
, yeah, instead of having towait until your thing is totally
perfect, by which point, youupload it and Only three people
are gonna see it anyway, mostlikely.
Yes, yes.
(44:14):
So I mean, for me it's morelike, well, each thing that you
put out, so whether this ismusic or videos now, is just
Like a mark of today.
Yeah, it's not.
It's not saying that this is aPerfect thing, it's just a thing
that is a point in time.
You let that thing go for me.
Joe Miller (44:38):
Yeah, i'm a.
I do coaching on the side.
You know, i've done career inexecutive coaching because I had
this whole other career intechnology.
But one of the things That weput out often as coaches
released I did was Challengingpeople to get off the outcome,
because if they're so focused onthe outcome, they think That
(45:02):
they want all the time They'remissing what's happening in the
now and there's learning in thenow and You don't really have
the best vision for what thespecifics of the outcome are
going to be anyway, because asyou go through the journey, you
change what you want.
You get clarity Yeah, what that, what that looks like and I
(45:24):
imagine that's Happened for youtoo, as you now your dad you
know.
So now you've got a factor thatin and that's part of your
overall best outcome, right, andDad of seven and a half doggies
or whatever.
Seven and three quarters, okay,only missing one leg on that
(45:46):
dog at K, yeah, so, yeah, ithink that's that's Really good
advice.
First thing you said was don'tthink that you have to go to
university for music.
Do the traditional thing.
And then we're talking nowabout it being a journey as well
, that the first one Goes backto a concept I, you know.
(46:08):
It's kind of programming orconditioning.
We hear so much about the wayit should be that we think we
have to follow a certain courseand In many, many people I've
talked to, they become, you know, a lawyer or an IT person or
something because Their parentstold them they would be good at
(46:28):
it or something you know, orthey they just thought they were
good at it, you know, or theythey just thought kind of
loosely about it and just wentdown that path and then Decades
into their, their journey.
They go really this kind ofsucks, i don't Know, and they
(46:49):
make a pretty big transition.
So For you it seems like it'sbeen more evolutionary, right,
and you might have taken someother turns and maybe shifted
things a little bit based uponwhat you've learned along the
way.
But You pretty much reportedtoward music from a very early
age, except for the, the grocerything.
John Cordy (47:10):
Yeah, that's, that's the music kind of was always
there, but I the universitything really kind of knocked me
off that path rather thanAnything else that was I.
I guess I made some really goodfriends there, but I think in
general.
But actually it was probably afair reflection of the industry
(47:34):
as well, in terms of, you know,a few people at university
Probably is going to benefitquite well and maybe those folks
are going to get into touringbands and stuff like that so
that there are people that canthrive in that environment.
But I Don't know, it's just forme It didn't really work.
Joe Miller (47:56):
I.
John Cordy (47:57):
Might as well have just done any other course at
university, really probably,because, yeah, probably even
more beneficial.
Joe Miller (48:07):
Well, i mean, it's just, you know, you come to
those conclusions and I thinkyou have to be kind with
yourself, you know.
That's the other thing too.
I think back about my careershifts.
I thought, well, you know, ispent, you know, many decades,
several decades, doing somethingthat I was successful at, but
it it burned me out.
You know, i was just.
I Was just what's theexpression?
smashed to bits.
(48:27):
I thought, the end of the day Iwas just, yeah, i was had no
energy, you know, i was justcompletely drained and I was
getting the financial rewards,but I Only kept doing it because
it took a ride for my family,you know.
But it wasn't giving me a lotof joy, that's for sure.
John Cordy (48:47):
Yeah, i also think there is a Like this is what I
meant earlier when I said aboutI couldn't advise anyone to to
follow my lead or whatever.
I don't think that There's somuch of everyone else's journey
which is totally not Saying yeah, if that makes sense.
(49:10):
So you know, someone else isprobably not gonna even want to
do a video every single day Or,like you know, 3000 videos
before they start gettinganywhere.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, in terms of relativesuccess, i'm probably like the
least successful person onYouTube versus work put in if
that makes sense.
So, but I Think at least yeah,i don't know What am I trying to
(49:35):
say about that.
Joe Miller (49:36):
I Forgotten well, i think what you're saying was
that Giving other people adviceand context of your own unique
journey is a little bit.
You have to think about it alittle bit, because not
everyone's lives are the same.
Now that never wired the same.
They're not the situation isnot the same right.
John Cordy (49:56):
Yeah, the thing that I've I've found that, i think,
is University true, probably isthat if you're gonna get good at
a thing, you have to find a wayto make it consistent, mm-hmm.
So you make it a thing that youare consistently gonna try to
do, and I had another thought.
(50:18):
This was gone.
Joe Miller (50:22):
That's what editing is for.
John Cordy (50:26):
You have to consistency, and then What am I
doing?
Joe Miller (50:35):
That's fine, but I think you have to be intentional
about About things, and I thinkalso that you have.
You talk, talk to us earlierabout the pattern.
You have the daily pattern.
You have right.
So you have an intention to the, to your own development, and
You've established a habit todoing that, and that provides
(50:58):
you with a structure In order tocontinue to work on your
mastery.
Today, did I ring a bell?
Go ahead, yeah.
John Cordy (51:06):
Yeah, the other thing, so what?
I guess it maybe goes hand inhand with it, but Generally with
anything, it's gonna requirelike That's a good amount of
work, if that makes sense.
Like probably before you seeWhat, before you hear of people
(51:27):
on YouTube, they've probablydone a load of Work that
gradually got them to where theyare or in whatever field
they're in.
Like there aren't really manyOvernight sudden success stories
or, although we see like thingsthat are viral or whatever,
probably there's had to be quitea vast amount of work
beforehand.
(51:48):
So the thing that has beenimportant for me is having a
really a really easy, clearworkflow, if that makes sense.
So basically, i can justliterally come into the room in
the morning and the thing thatI'm working on.
I'm not having to set up,there's no kind of blockages.
I just do the thing, and Ithink maybe that's probably the
(52:12):
same for other things as well.
But if you were trying to getgood at a thing, like you
wouldn't pack your guitar awayevery day if you wanted to play
it every day, right, becausethat would it would be a
blockage between you and doingthe thing.
Joe Miller (52:28):
If anything you can do yeah, anything could do to
remove the friction From yourintent Is a good thing to do.
You know it's it's havingeverything kind of the whole
pants distance, everything atthe ready, and you know if you
took all your your guitars andyou put them downstairs and Or
(52:48):
some other place and every timeyou had to think about it's kind
of like the workout thing.
You know, Well, I have thisgreat piece of gym equipment.
It's like three flights ofstairs away from me and And then
on the way up you know there'sthe coffee pot or the tea kettle
and there's this, the TV withthe remote, and You're basically
(53:09):
setting yourself up for failurerather than intentionally build
your workflow and yourenvironment to support your
intention.
John Cordy (53:16):
Yeah, i think as well part of the thing.
If you're gonna do a thing withany sort of scale, as in like
Thousands of hours spent doing athing, then probably naturally
some of these habits will startto form.
But I maybe, if you go into itwith the idea, if it's a new
thing that having a Workflowthat is gonna support you
(53:41):
spending loads of hours doing it, i think maybe that helps a bit
.
But that that was kind of thething where people ask me about
you know, how do you do that orhow do you do this, whatever
it's that every single day Ijust do the thing and that
naturally things have evolved ina way where there aren't as
many blockages to doing thething.
Yeah, yeah, where you're,naturally you'll you've become a
(54:04):
bit quicker at doing what'sgoing on.
Eventually you learn how tofocus the camera, which took to
me a lot of years.
I'm still gonna get it right upall the time, and that's the
other thing as well is that, asI said earlier, like each day,
it's just a representation ofthe thing.
So whether the project is,however long, i guess it'd be
(54:26):
different for different people,but All the thing is is the best
you could do in that moment.
It doesn't have to be the mostperfect thing in the world, and
not everyone in the world isgonna see what you did anyway.
So I tried to keep that in mind, that you don't want to block
The thing with too many thoughtsabout yeah, like you said the
(54:49):
outcome.
I guess that's the thing withsocial media as well.
Joe Miller (54:52):
Where?
John Cordy (54:52):
yeah, people are concerned about the amount of
numbers and stuff and I try toencourage people as well.
That is not really about thesuccess of one or two posts,
it's more about over time.
Yeah, that's what it's been forme anyway trying to Leave
enough things behind that peoplewill eventually.
Joe Miller (55:12):
Can't you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, having thelong view, absolutely, that's,
that's great.
Well, um, i Want to kind ofpivot, sir, as we were bringing
the plane in for a landing here,so to speak, because we've been
going for a while down tainted,but I love them, hopefully what
somebody else will connect withthem.
It'll be interesting to seewhat the retention graph is.
(55:33):
As to your earlier point,that's a scary thing.
But So how do people?
are there any projects?
you're doing your normal thingsright.
Are you working towardsanything else Or you just kind
of continuing to turn the crankon what you've been doing?
(55:53):
Obviously, you have a new baby,so that's a new project.
John Cordy (55:58):
This is one of those things and thought.
so, as you might be able totell, i have like certain habits
that are formed.
The thing that I don't have atthe moment a very good idea of
is how I would turn things intolike a larger project with like
(56:20):
more planning.
So all of my music stuff isimprovised, so I've become very
used to the idea of startingwith nothing and quite quickly
having something is not of anyvalue, but like something.
And then but I do sort of fearin some ways that I might be
missing out on other things thatif I, you know, had a larger
(56:43):
project, that makes sense.
So what I'm trying to thinkabout at the moment obviously
right now I'm just sort ofmaintaining is an idea of a
larger project in some way.
So probably for me it wouldn'tbe an album, because I don't
think there'd be much interestin it, but it might be in
something like a course withmore of a through line or you
(57:09):
know, something more planned or,yeah, makes sense.
But I'm trying to think in myhead about how my workflow at
the moment wouldn't reallysupport that.
I don't think, unless I'd haveto sit down and maybe talk to
someone about what, how I?
Joe Miller (57:27):
would make sense Well you have a huge content
library there.
The question is is there liketo your point?
is there a through line?
I'm sure there is, And but it'show to work that into your,
your current workflow.
John Cordy (57:45):
Yeah, well, i.
So there might be certain topic, topics like techniques, like
legato and guitar, for instancethat I'm sure I've got enough
stuff that I could do somethingon that topic.
But I wouldn't want to justreuse stuff, if that makes sense
, i want to try to present it ina different way.
(58:05):
So those are some thoughts thatI've got And I like a bit of a
blind spot for me personallywhere the larger project haven't
really got a sense of that atthe moment.
Joe Miller (58:17):
Yeah, Yeah, well, I think that asking your your your
followers.
So sometimes the advice I'veheard in this respect is to ask
them what they're interested in.
You know what, what, what havethey can add?
what would they like more of inthe form of a course?
(58:39):
And you know, I completelydifferent space, You know, in
sort of the leadershipmanagement space.
I've launched communities, paidcommunities in that space and
provide services to them,meetings and facilitate things.
But one of the things I'mlooking at doing is starting a
(59:01):
course for growing in leadershipand putting out polls saying
what are the key things youstruggle with.
You know so I don't know, Butthe advice I have seen out there
is put a poll out there, youknow, create a sort of an early
bird launch, you know, with theunderstanding that they will be
(59:23):
co developing the coursematerial with you for a
reasonable entry fee, foundingmember or whatever.
Those kinds of things can behelpful, I think.
John Cordy (59:35):
Yeah, for me.
I articulated this to one otherperson.
I think the idea would be thatI'd start off with one sort of
mini project That makes sense,so like a smaller thing, as a
proof of concept, that I couldactually do a project that spans
like days rather than just oneday.
(59:55):
Yeah, that looking beyond oneday for me at the moment is like
a challenge, i guess, exceptfor if I bank several things in
one day.
So for knowing that I actuallygot advice from Jack Gardner,
incredible guitarist on this,who had a baby, i think, maybe
(01:00:16):
like two, three years before,and he said I wish I had banked
some videos.
So I kind of took that on boardand then I had like 30 videos
that over time I had put away sothat eventually, when I got
stuck in hospital for five dayswith my wife and baby, that I
(01:00:37):
had that to fall back on.
So I think that probably showsthat the ability to bank a thing
.
It shows that you can lookforward a bit.
Joe Miller (01:00:46):
Yeah and small increments, right, yeah, yeah, i
just think that's exciting.
I'm sure there's.
I mean, a lot of people wouldbe interested in what you come
up with.
John Cordy (01:00:59):
So that's my.
It might be rubbish idea.
Joe Miller (01:01:01):
No, no, enough of that humility.
Yeah, It's great stuff.
John Cordy (01:01:06):
That is, yeah, one thing I definitely need to
figure out.
Joe Miller (01:01:10):
Well, this has been great.
I don't want to take up toomuch of your time.
I know it's quite a bit later.
I'm in Florida, so it's it's myafternoon, but it's getting
well into the evening for you.
So how, how should people reachyou?
Now?
I'm going in the in the shownotes in this, this YouTube
(01:01:31):
publication.
I also have an audio podcast.
I will include your path toyour YouTube channel.
Are there other places theyshould look for you?
I think you're on Instagram too, right?
Why don't you just call outsome of that information and
I'll embed it into this?
John Cordy (01:01:49):
So the main engine is YouTube.
So YouTubecom slash John NathanKordy.
That has been the thing thathas actually been more
interesting for me.
Instagram is there too And Ikind of post sort of clips and
stuff up there.
Joe Miller (01:02:06):
But mostly YouTube.
John Cordy (01:02:09):
Yeah, mostly YouTube and Instagram to me isn't as
interesting a place as YouTube.
You can actually hear whatsomeone thinks about stuff and
you can hear three minutes ofmusic if they choose to play
three minutes of boring Lagarde.
Yeah, the YouTube became a bitmore interesting to me because
(01:02:29):
it was yeah, you could do alonger video, you could talk
about ideas and people could askyou what was that thing that
you're doing there and you thatcould then create another video
idea.
So it's been quite nice in thatway.
It's self-saturating, but, yeah, so YouTube is basically the
main place.
Joe Miller (01:02:49):
Well, this has been great, John.
I really appreciate your timeand best of luck with the many
souls under your roof.
I appreciate you making timefrom some guy that reached out
as a little bit of a fanboy, Andfrom an old guy too.
see, age is a thing, but I keeprocking as best I can.
John Cordy (01:03:14):
Thanks for asking.
Joe Miller (01:03:15):
This has been great.
So, everyone, please encourageyou to go to John's YouTube
channel and do all the thingslike subscribe, share and
support his work.
It's great work.
I look forward to connectingwith you all again soon with the
next episode.
(01:03:35):
So thanks again, John, forbeing on Titans of Transition.
John Cordy (01:03:40):
Thanks, John.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.