71. Behind the scenes with Worship Guitarists

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joe Miller (00:00):
Hey, welcome everyone to Titans of

(00:02):
Transition.
This is a little special episodefor me.
usually I interview folks, whohave gone through, career
transitions and they're down theroad further than many of us and
have lessons learned to shareabout how to discover your.
your gifts and make sure you putthem into the world to share

(00:23):
them with everyone else.
I believe that fulfillmentreally comes from, discovering
your gifts and using them toguide you into career choices
and life choices.
I think a lot of people getfrustrated when they go against
the grain or they listen toother voices that they have

(00:44):
heard growing up.
Maybe it's parents who thoughtthey should be a lawyer or a
doctor and maybe they have someaptitude and skill for those
things.
and they go down their careerpath for many years and, reach a
point where they're veryunfulfilled.
And so I, I've met up with thesepeople as I've led IT

(01:05):
organizations, believe it ornot, and, coach people to step
out of that career.
I've also done coaching.
And so this is a very commonthread.
With all that being said,Worship ministry, being a
worship guitarist has been apassion of mine on the side.
And so that's one of the reasonswhy I wanted to have this live

(01:26):
stream is because all thesefolks that are on the stream
right now, I follow online, andthey help me prepare for,
serving on a worship team in mychurch, and, I wanted to share
that out with everyone.
I want to have a little bit ofconversation with each of you
about how you landed on whatyou're doing, what it is you're
doing, and then we'll get intothe nuts and bolts of advice you

(01:50):
give to those who follow you, tothose who buy your courses, or
what you have to offer as well.
So with that being said, I wouldlike to have, let's see, who am
I going to pick on?
I think I am going to pick onJason.

Jason Houstma (02:08):
All right.
That means I'm your favorite,right?

Joe Miller (02:11):
you are, you were the early bird that caught the
worm.

It's because I was trying to set up my, make
sure everything worked.
That was the main reason.

Joe Miller (02:19):
Tell, tell us where you're coming in from, of
course.
And then go through what you'recurrently doing, how you arrived
there quickly and what youoffer.
Sure.

My name is Jason Houtsma.
I founded worshipartistry.
com about, back in 2011, withthe intention of just equipping
at the beginning, equippingguitarists to be able to just
play with passion and confidenceand to lead that way in church.
And, I had actually just quitmusic full time.
when I, when the kind ofconversation started, I was
like, I can't do this anymore.

(02:49):
I'd been in bands, I was, I had,led worship a long time and, but
this, ended up having aconversation that just sparked
this dream to, at the time therewas very little online.
Like you had YouTube and it waslike me and Brian Wall.
If Brian Wall from WorshipTutorials, we each had 200 views
on YouTube.
And, and so I leaned more intothe arrangement and coaching.

(03:11):
I taught, I've taught privatelessons for years and so it was
a real natural move for me tojust lean more into the actual
online teaching and arrangingand just trying to help
guitarists if there's a singleguitarist for a church, which is
my experience, to be able totake that, to be able to prepare
every Sunday and understand asong.
And so we do tutorials that leanin, lean into that and really

(03:32):
focus on everything from liketotal beginners all the way to I
sometimes use my own website tolearn songs.
So we go more for the experts aswell.
So it's all that, just trying toequip the church.
Oh, man, we lost Joe.

Joe Miller (03:44):
Oh, sorry about that guys.

There he is.
He's back.

Joe Miller (03:47):
I was so bored.
I was so bored.
And I'm supposed to be an ITperson.
All right, folks.
Sorry about that.
First time you hit thisplatform.
Go ahead.
I will not push any more buttonsfor a while.
You re I'm good.
Go.
Go to the next.
Did you finish without me?
I did.
Okay.
So the next person will beMatthew.

Matthew Dale (04:07):
Oh, boy.
if, if Jason was the, early birdthat got the worm, I guess I'm
the second mouse that gets thecheese.
It's a little joke.
my name is Matthew Dale.
I am here to help you playbetter sound great, and
understand more, what I do in onmy YouTube channel and in my
online business.
my website is matthew dale.com.
Matthew.

(04:28):
And, what I really try to do isconnect a guitar player together
where, music theory, knowledge,guitar, and fretboard knowledge
and gear all come into one tobasically create or help you
become a very dangerous guitarplayer, that is well equipped
for all musical situations,including worship, worship
guitar.
I've been a worship guitarplayer for, More years than I

(04:50):
can count at this point, tryingto think back, to all of it.
But, it seems like I've always,played guitar in church and
worship guitar and worshipmodern worship guitar styles or
modern worship styles.
Like I said, I should say, isreally one of nuance and it is
really tricky for, let's sayclassical players or jazz
players or rock players or bluesplayers to just come in and, set

(05:13):
up shop and jump in with aworship guitar, worship band and
play guitar because it's such adifferent language and in my own
teaching philosophy, I really tobreak down all of that
individual stuff and really getat the nitty gritty to see what
makes a music style sound like amusic style, what makes this
guitar part sound like thatstyles guitar part and, and so

(05:37):
on and so forth.
I'm a nerd.

Charl Coetzee (05:41):
Hey guys.
Yeah.
It's great to be with everyonetonight.
My voice sounds a bit funny, soI don't normally sound like
this.
You probably know that from thevideo from Memphis Bay, South
Africa, and a random site calledworshipguitarskills.
com.
And our main focus is to helpguitarists develop that specific

(06:01):
skillset that they need.
in order to play worship withconfidence and lead their
congregations well.
And not just to be greatguitarists, but great musicians
and ultimately great worshipersbecause I think that's what we
created to do.
And it makes sense when weintake those awesome moments of
worship.

(06:21):
So yeah, we.
It was really awesome for us touse our skills and abilities,
the things that we love aboutguitar and gear and all those
kind of things to, for God'skingdom and for his glory.
So that's really an awesomehonor and a privilege.
It's gone past 10, 10 past 11,so it's 11 PM.

Justin Chan (06:42):
Okay.
Hi.
Hi guys.
I'm Justin.
I am Justin Chan.
I am from Singapore.
It's five o'clock in themorning.
And, thank you, Joe, for havingme here.
And, I want to joke that I'm theearliest of the lot because I
came in 24 hours earlierthinking it was the previous
day's date.
Oh,

yes.

yeah, so that's the glory of, dealing with multiple
time zones.
thank you, Joe, for coordinatingall this.
Yeah, so you guys are seeing mynew house.
So this is the, living room.
I don't have a workstation setup yet.
I don't have any internet.
if my current workstation is ina basement with no Wi Fi
coverage, so I gotta be out herewhere my phone is, hot spotting.

(07:23):
hopefully, The video quality andaudio quality is okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, I am, as I mentioned before, I'm from
Singapore.
It's a, it's pretty far away.
It's a little bit dot in, justat the bottom of the Malaysian.
Malaysia and Indonesia.
So you imagine Malaysia is uphere and Indonesia is down
there.
We are like this one.
tiny dot.
That's, that's in between thetwo of them.
And I am, I used to be achemical engineer.
I have a degree in chemicalengineering.

(07:51):
I used to work, I used to workin a pharmaceutical
manufacturing plant.
So that was, that was fun.
it was like full day shifts.
So you start at 8am 8pm orconversely, if you do night
shift, it's 8pm to 8am.
And those are the days where.
It was good money, I'm not gonnalie, it was good money, but I,
it felt, there was a sense ofthis, unease in me.

(08:13):
Because years prior to that, Ihad served at Singapore U for
Christ, after finishing school.
in Singapore, there's this,there's this phase, where if you
finish school, and before youstart uni, or before you start
work, there's a little bit of,downtime, before you, before
life carries on.
most people take a part timejob.
Most people take a six monthvacation and go see the world or

(08:36):
something.
I decided to, I felt a call togo into Singapore Youth for
Christ, which has a program.
It's like a six month longinternship.
And in that internship, I wasat, I was in the performing arts
ministry in Singapore Youth forChrist.
And during that time, I feltthis call to, to, merge my
musical interests with full timeministry.

(08:57):
And that was when I first feltthe seeds of the call.
That call has evolved very much,from a simple, from sharing
gospel through music to where itis now with my channel, All
About Worship Guitar.
it's my YouTube channel where IMy tagline is to sound and play
your best with Jesus.
And I think, Matthew Dale musthave taken a look at my script

(09:19):
or, or at least I've, because alot of what I want to say about,
about, the philosophy and ethosis what similar to Matthew.
That's amazing.
Breaking, it's actually breakingapart tones and songs, figuring
out how they play and, veryguitar and early stuff, but
guitar and early stuff istweaked to Christian ministry.
And I love, I love to see itwhen musicians are able to walk

(09:41):
on the stage and to, to playwith their fullest potential,
especially for guitar players.
So soft spot, right?
Cause I'm a guitar player.
If you guys haven't figured itout.
Yeah,

Sam Wittek (09:55):
basically, I've been on YouTube for, I guess about
five years now.
I was working, so I'm in centralFlorida right now.
About five, six years ago, I wasworking at a church.
I was a music director up there.
And, it was one of those thingspost college, I felt like I
landed my dream job.
It was just like, this isamazing.
I really had a heart forministry and music ministry.

(10:16):
So I did that for about a yearand then, everything was going
pretty well, but then, gotmarried.
And then pretty soon my wifestarted running into some
health, kind of chronic healthstuff.
And long story short, we endedup needing to move and came to
this place of I felt like I wasdoing what God called me to do,
but then wasn't able to do it.
And then she was reallyencouraging me.

(10:37):
what if you just did theYouTube, at that point I was
serving a lot and they're likewhat Jason, I think what you
were saying earlier, therewasn't really a ton of resources
out there.
I found myself strugglingsometimes and just wanting to
learn how to do this better.
So at that point it was like,okay, we're in this new city.
let's just try YouTube and startputting some song tutorials out.

(10:58):
And stuff like that and try tocontinue this ministry thing.
And maybe it doesn't look theway that I thought it was going
to look a couple of years ago,but yeah, now it's, I guess
about five years later and it'sevolved and, yeah, really just
trying to reach other guitarplayers who were similar to me
when I first started playing inchurch.
And it was like, what is all ofthis?
how do you learn these songs?
what is tone?

(11:18):
How do you do this thing withexcellence, from the gear side
of things to the actual.
learning how to do all thisstuff.
yeah, just trying to provideresources for those people out
there.

Tyler Miller (11:29):
I live in Nashville, Tennessee.
and an Airbnb right now.
I'm house gets worked on.
so I don't have hardly any of mystuff with me at the moment,
but, yeah, so I've lived inNashville for about six years
now.
I play lead, lead guitar on aworship team here in Nashville.
we actually just merged with,the Life Church out of Memphis.
so they've got a few locationsall across the globe, actually.
So really cool to see, whatGod's doing there and to see how

(11:52):
that develops.
other than that, I, play countrymusic professionally, play kind
of whatever other gigs I findopportunities for as well.
I manage a country artist.
I manage a hip hop artist.
and then I also have a full timejob completely outside of the
music industry as well.

You guys all had angels talk to you, right?
That's what happened to me.
That's normal, right?
And I could, yeah, I could jumpin real quick.
I think opportunity is somethingthat happens at different times
in different places.
I don't know anybody who isactually.
a full time musician that, thattook a straight shot.
it's not like being anaccountant where you're like,

(12:30):
Oh, I graduated college and Igot this degree and now I just
go down this road.
it's doing a lot of differentthings for me.
I was in, different bands.
I was an India rock band.
I was in a worship band.
That band almost got signedwhole label rearranged like the
day after we did our audition.
It was great.
It was super cool.
I had quit music, I had, as afull time job and then literally

(12:52):
three months later started upworship artistry.
And so, I think it's somethingthat it's you're passionate
about it.
And so you're constantlypreparing for it.
Cause that's just what you do.
Cause that's what you love.
And then the opportunities,opportunities come along.
So I would love to hear otherpeople's stories because they're
never normal.

I feel like I've fought with it for a little
while.
Like I always knew that I wantedto do music.
I've been, I took guitar lessonsall the way from when I was like
six years old and that big.
and, was always just highlyinterested in music.
and then when college camearound, I went to a first, I
started going to a universityhere in St.

(13:33):
Louis, for audio production.
I'm like, okay, I want to be amusician.
I want to be a guitar player,but maybe.
And at the time, 18 years old,this is back 2008, 2009 at the
time, okay, maybe I'll own astudio.
That's where the money is.
And, some, I go into studioproduction and, I wanted to have
a studio, but then record my ownmusic and whatever.
And I spent about a year there,two semesters and all the audio,

(13:57):
all the audio professors werelike, You wanna own a studio one
day?
that's not gonna be a thing.
they were very encouraging, itwas great.
and then I just figured, Ifthat's the best I'm getting out
of these people, if they'relike, you're not going to do
that, it's not realistic.
I'm like, if nothing isrealistic, then I guess I just
might as well pursue what I wantto do anyway, which is play

(14:17):
guitar.
So then I transferred up to areally small school, called
McNally Smith College of Music.
And I went to school there.
I finished my bachelor's inguitar performance.
And I took a couple of,production classes and some
songwriting classes and Someother, music business class and
stuff.
I try to only do my degree is inguitar performance, but I try

(14:37):
to, make myself a little morewell rounded in that regard.
I really wish McNally Smith wassomething that I could actually
tell people about, that it'sstill, it's unfortunately not
there anymore.
It was a.
was a for profit school and thenit was, unfortunately
mismanaged.
But, a guitar player by the nameof Corey Wong also went to
McNally Smith College of Music.
He was a couple of years, older,or a couple of years ahead of

(14:59):
me, but I got to know the guythat is currently his drummer
fairly well.
pardon the name dropping, if Ijust say McNally Smith, no one
knows what I'm talking about.
So I finished my degree.
and, then again, wrestled withthe idea, what am I actually
doing for my future?
Music is just, it's nothappening, right?
So then I came back to St.
Louis and I joined a postbaccalaureate pre med program,

(15:21):
and I thought I want to be adoctor because that's the
straightened path.
I know what I need.
I go to med school, I get aresidency, I'm an attending, or
I go into private practice.
that's just laid out.
That's the plan.
Did fairly well for the firstcouple of semesters.
hated it.
it just was not for me, eventhough I'm a little bit of a
science nerd, but just not forme because, my guitar would

(15:42):
stare at me in the corner of myroom like, hey, What are you
doing?
Pick, pick me up.
what are you doing over there?
And I did actually, I probablypracticed more during that time
period of my life than ever,even after going through four
years of music program.
but that's when I like, that'swhen I really feel like I became
who I am as a player or laid thegroundwork for who I am as a
player.

(16:02):
and I had a wonderful mentor atthe time, that, was his kind of
claim to fame is helping.
He taught a class that waspreparing people for going into,
into med school.
And he, in, during this class,he talked to everyone.
He said, by the way, I'm just,I'm a really friendly person.
just, I teach 200 students asemester.
I can't write everyone a letterrecommendation for med school.

(16:25):
So please just don't ask me.
I ended up like being a TA forhim and I was working when
developed a relationship withhim.
And he said to me, before I wasjust going to out the program,
he said, Hey, by the time, yourmed school stuff comes up, let
me know.
I'll write you a letter ofrecommendation and just it
killed me.
So I had a really longconversation with him.
I'm like, I don't think I wantto do this.
I think I actually want to gointo music.

(16:47):
And he was actually reallysupportive and really happy for
me.
He's it's great that youactually know what to do and you
have your passion and you have acalling to do this.
Go do it.
I wish you the best of luck.
So I really appreciate who hewas for me at that time.
his name was Dr.
Gregory Politis.
wonderful guy.

Joe Miller (17:04):
So I'm going to ask you that question.
So how did you get into thisthing?
Yeah,

I had a bit of an interesting journey.
I, I never played music growingup, but then I started going to
a charismatic church when I was14.
and then they had electricguitar and bass and all the
things in the band and that'show I started playing guitar
because one of my friends was areally gifted musician and he
started playing drums and hesaid I must also buy a drum kit

(17:34):
and I didn't really knowanything about music but I did
know that drummers, you'd onlyhave one drummer in a band so I
ended up buying a bass guitar sowe can start jamming like rhythm
section stuff together.
And then another friend of ours,started playing bass and he
could sing.
And then I had to learn guitarso we can start a band.
So this was all in, in highschool and that's what the
journey took.

(17:55):
And then I started, becoming aprofessional musician after
school in South Africa.
Yeah, we were touring.
with different artists.
I was basically a hired gun.
I played for whoever needed aguitar player, did some sessions
and studio work and touring.
And at some point, I got alittle bit bored with doing the
same thing over and over.
And one day I said to my wife,why don't we move to London?

(18:18):
I want to go and study musicthere and see if we can, start
touring internationally and getbetter gigs and all those kinds
of things.
And it was during that time thatI realized, sure, I'm surrounded
by all these awesome musicians,like the best of the best, but
most of them are on the road allthe time.
And I didn't know any of myteachers that, had a happy
marriage and family and kids andall those kinds of things.

(18:39):
And then that kind of unsolvedme on the whole music thing.
So I stopped doing music and Igot into other parts of
business, mostly to do withmarketing and online business
and those kinds of things.
And then when we finally movedback to South Africa, I decided,
let me take my skills and mypassion for playing guitar and
specifically worship guitar andall the marketing things that we

(18:59):
did together and start.
Building a platform that we canreach more people out there.
So that's what we're doing now.
we started a full time gig doingjust that.
We're still doing a couple ofother things, as well, but we're
trusting that we can startmaking this the full time gig
because that's some real,eternity impact that we can get
made like us collectively at,just helping and raising worship

(19:20):
guitarists across the world,because we know now more than
ever, people need thatconnection with God and that
touch from God and unity's voiceand all those awesome things.
And what better way to use thestuff that we love and are super
passionate about.
So that's my story.
I'm happy to dive deeper intoanything else, Dave, but that's
about it.
And then I'll stop.

Joe Miller (19:40):
Thank you, Charlotte.
Now, we heard a little bitalready from Justin and also a
bit.
I think Sam, you all, both ofyou touched a little bit on your
transition story.
Tyler, I think we, we got a kindof a feel for the multiple
things you're doing.
so do you have anything to add?
Was there a moment that took youinto worship ministry to begin

(20:01):
with?
Cause I know you've been doingthat in parallel with other
things for a while.

Yeah.
Pretty much as soon as I canplay a song on guitar.
I've been playing guitar inchurch.
can't remember a time in my lifewhere I knew how to play guitar
that I haven't played in church,honestly.
that's just all I've knownsince, I've been able to play
guitar and to this day Imaintain it.
I love it.
in my opinion, the best guitartones are in CCM music.
Alright.
And, I'm a big tone guy, and,just that alone keeps me, keeps

(20:28):
me engaged on a pretty muchweekly basis, there.
And then, I've just grown up ina household that's always been a
church, been a Christian mywhole life.
That's just what I know.
That's a big part of my life,whether I play music or if I
didn't, and it just so happensto coincide with music in this,
in this situation.
That's

Joe Miller (20:46):
awesome.
that's a good segue to the nextquestion.
I'll go ahead and pop it up onthe screen here.
how is worship ministry musicdifferent from the other?
genres out there for guitarists.
How would you differentiate?
some of you guys are playing, wehave you playing in a country
band, Tyler, we have otherpeople playing in different
settings as well.

(21:06):
So what are the key things thatworship guitarists?
Need to understand about thedifferences between other
genres, because I think thiswill lead us into tone
discussions, gear discussions,and other questions.
So anyone can jump in who wantsto.

I would say that, and we were talking a little bit
about this in the chat beforethe live stream, but,
Understanding the proper chordvoicings and the proper ways to
actual comp, like rhythmicallycomp, in a worship setting are
dramatically different thanblues, rock, and other classic

(21:47):
styles from, from the 1950s upto the 1990s, something like
that.
Um, the best thing that I teachpeople when I teach them, this
is get to know your triads andplease believe me.
It's true.
I've got a

Joe Miller (21:59):
course going on that.
Yes.

and it's, it sounds bad that we have to like,
We have to just plead withpeople, please study your
triads.
They will make a world ofdifference.
And in the way that I gotstarted with it, I was in that
same boat where, I was playing,I just joined a church after
college.
And I was, they needed a guitarplayer.
So I was, I signed up.
And I got all this music and Igot all this recording, but I

(22:22):
never did, worship guitar playeror worship guitar playing and in
college.
And it was, a newer style,especially when like Hillsong
and Bethlehem and a lot ofthese, more contemporary bands
came out.
it was very different than just,your worship leader strumming,
GC and D and just followingsuit.
There's these really subtleparts and everything is highly
nuanced and you've got a ton ofdelay.

(22:44):
So if you hit a bad note, it'sgoing to sound bad for a long
time.
so you got to be careful.
You got to be careful when you,when you're doing that.
and the best thing that I didwas when I was listening to and
picking out parts was, Okay.
This is a triad thing.
I had the school knowledge, so Iknew what it was.
Okay.
This is a triad thing.
They're voicely in a lot oftriads and Oh, you know what?
They're actually not alwaysplaying the full triad.

(23:06):
They're actually doing one susfour.
And that's what they do for thefour chord.
And they're doing like one sustwo.
And that's what they do.
And for the five chord, what ifI take that and I move it around
the neck?
Oh, I'm now, I'm getting theseother parts together that sound
within that style.
And I can make up my own stuff.
If we don't have any dedicated,written out parts.
I can sound in the style ofthis, this music, just like you

(23:29):
would with jazz, blues, rock,whatever.
And you develop a language thatway.
and it comes from, from myexperience, it comes from really
breaking things down in amusical context.
what is this musically?
How can I apply it to thefretboard all over the place,
but it's, it, there's, you can'treally go to a blues gig and
only play, with a bunch ofreverb, people will look at you

(23:51):
like, what are you doing?
and that's just the same way.
If you show up Sunday morningand you plug in your Les Paul to
your Marshall half stack andyou're in your chunk in power
chords the entire time, peoplelook at you like all time, the
whole time you're going to bedoing power chords.
That's not what, not what you'redoing.
So that's a little bit myanswer.
it's highly nuanced.
And you have to know, really howto feel your way through a song

(24:12):
appropriately.

Yeah.
There are a lot of choices.
it's every time I pull up a songfor a tutorial, there's at
minimum seven stem tracks ofjust electric guitars, nevermind
the 17 keyboards and the loops.
it's crazy.
it's so different than most ofthe music I listened to.
And, and so learning how to makethe choices around, okay, what

(24:38):
are all these parts doing?
What's standing out?
Yeah.
What role are they playing?
Not even just where is it on theneck, but okay, this is a
rhythmic piece.
Okay.
If we don't have this rhythm,the song starts dying.
Okay.
This part's more of a leadpiece.
Oh, we need this hook in here.
And so there's so much, I alwayssay, like with worship artistry,
the main thing I'm doing is justtaking away your five hours of
arrangement.
Cause I do that.

(24:58):
And then just okay, focus onthese and then play these well,
So I think when it comes toworship and on top of it, you're
not always playing with the samepeople.
we talked about it a little bitbefore we got on, but Okay, the
people on my team are all overthe place in terms of skill.
We don't always play all thesame times, so it's like being
aware and just being adaptiveand being able to make good
choices in the moment, I thinkare just, are really important

(25:21):
to the worship, environment.

Sam Wittek (25:25):
Yeah.
I feel like adaptive is such agood word because it really is.
You don't know what you'restepping into on a Sunday
morning, but I feel like alsowith it just being in the
context, like we play such amore supportive role to.
The vocalists to like the actuallike word of God being sung and
like the congregational singinghappening.
So yeah, definitely not tryingnot to come in with these like

(25:48):
ripping guitar solos and stuff,like totally going off the
rails.
obviously there's a time andplace.
So if it calls for that, you'dgo for it.
Cause yeah, but I agree.
Yeah.
I think, definitely adaptingwith what the, setting calls for
and what the worship leadercalls for and what the
environment looks like in thatmoment.

And I'll just tag in with one other thing.
Also being adaptive when you'replaying with another guitar
player is huge and understandinglike, what are you doing?
What am I doing?
And how do we not cross eachother's toes?
and also, working with differentpeople, when you're trying to
get a couple of parts together,arrange what you're going to be
doing on a weekend, working withother people of varying skill

(26:27):
levels and knowledge levels.
to try, try to get together thebest possible thing that you can
have.

Joe Miller (26:37):
Other thoughts, guys?

Yeah, I think the one thing also to bear in mind,
like some of the guys havementioned, is if you go to a
rock gig or a blues gig, itmight be a blues trio, so
there's a lot more space for theguitar to fill.
Number one, but in worshipteams, the there's a lot more
people on stage so you need toadapt your playing so that you
can support properly and becausewe play the same chords it's not

(26:59):
going to cut through the mix ifyou play the same licks it's
going to step on toes It'sadapting your playing to fit
within that role.
And then I think two otherthings that's quite important.
Sam mentioned that he's like theultimate purpose of worship is
to bring that congregationtogether so that they can engage
in powerful moments of worship.
And if you play the wrong thingat the wrong time, you can

(27:20):
either jolt somebody out of themoment or, but if you play the
right thing at the right time,then it can really give
expression to something thatsomeone might feel.
in the moment and actually pullthem into that worship
experience.
So I think in order to do thatexpression part and like getting
people to engage, that requiresa different skill set as it
relates to your voicings thatyou're going to play, the kind

(27:42):
of melodies and emotions thatyou, the stories you might, tell
on the guitar, emotional.
if you look at the Psalms,right?
David was a man after God's ownheart and he didn't have a
problem with emotions.
So we've got to be able to pullup some rocking power chords
versus some ambient tones versussome sweet stuff versus some
whatever the case may be.
I think when you start addingthose flavors, then, it makes a

(28:05):
sweet aroma.
People pull people into thatmoment.
So we get a lot of comments on,not a lot, but the hater
comments that we get is thatthere's no such thing as worship
guitar, And then I always think,there's jazz guitar, different
kind of big voicings, there'sblues guitar, there's rock
guitar.
So definitely there's worshipguitar from that point of view,
it's a different style.
And also the outcome isdifferent instead of us being

(28:27):
the main thing.
And like you would get at ablues gig or whatever, right?
we are there to, to play aserving role.
So I think, those couple ofthings, when you take that into
consideration, it helps yourapproach and to Prepare your
heart as well, because yourheart has to be right.
You can't have all the skillsand step on stage with your
heart not being right.
Whereas, I heard Bono once saysomething about the fact is

(28:47):
that, all the rock starsdefinitely need to have big,
issues that they're dealing withbecause they need all these
thousands and tens of thousandsof people to scream at them and
tell them how great they are.
So there's like a hole thatneeds to fill.
And maybe he was saying that asa joke, but I think that having
the heart right andunderstanding community and
connection and all those kindsof things.
There's quite a lot to getright, and yet at the same time,

(29:08):
God can use whatever you've gotin your hands.
So you just got to bring thatwith the right heart and then,
God can multiply that.

I used to joke that worship music as a genre, it's
like how if you hear, and thebeautiful thing about worship
music is that it's multi genrein that You hear all the music
of the world, right?
Like blues, rock, country even,and all these genres exist in
worship CCM as well.
And the joke is you take thedifficulty slider from 10 and

(29:36):
you drag it all the way down totwo or three and that's where
you get the level, of, music inchurch.
And, I don't mean that as a badthing.
I say that because, the musicthat resonates on most on Sunday
is the music that people canrelate to, people can sing along
to, and the musicians who can,play the most proficiently.
So I do find that worship musicis, at least the music that

(30:00):
resonates more to congregationis simpler and vocal focused.
And, and the parts are not,instead of a 128 bar blues bar,
a blues solo, it's.
eight bar solos or, or four barsolos even.
And this having to serve thevocals, having to serve that
vocal layer to make sure thatevery, people are singing the

(30:23):
lyrics right.
that's, and that influences notechoices as to both note and tone
choices as to whether the partis going to be, taking away
attention from the vocal layeror, from the lyrics.
And so there's a acute, sort ofattention paid to layering, I
think, especially for modern CCMand modern worship.

(30:43):
Like when Jason said that youhad to choose between, seven or
nine guitar stems and some ofthose parts are like one note
throughout the session.
some of those are just likethis, a hundred percent reverb
mix.
And just like this guy in thebackground, like doing a
mosquito trail thing, but you'llsee.

Those are the parts that I always learn.
That's

what a great way to get ready for Sunday.

Yeah.

Yeah.

so that's, So that's worship guitar.
And we have to play these parts,without, distracting people.
And I think that to me is boththe beauty and the challenge of
playing in church.

Joe Miller (31:21):
you remind me of Steve Luth, Luthifer's comment
about, I think it was humannature, where he's brought in to
that session.
I don't know if you guys sawthat or, the producer basically
said, I need something here.
I need something.
It's missing something.
I need glue.
And he had, has that littlerhythmic line that he plays over
and over again, simply.

(31:41):
and then repeats.
And if you listen to that song,it's Oh my gosh, you can't
imagine that song without thatlittle hook and that lead part
in there.
and I think it's a challengesometimes.
this is where I think God dealswith people internally.
when you're a guitarist onstage, you want to do more
sometimes when really it's muchmore powerful to do something

(32:03):
clean and simpler, less is morekind of thing.
But that's hard to swallowsometimes when you come in and
the worship leader says, can yousimplify that?
You're like, ah, I spent 15hours and I really want to hear
it.
You got to park it, park it.
Oh, not only

that, but not knowing when not to play as
well.
And not white

Joe Miller (32:22):
space.

There's a, yep.
Yeah, definitely got to leavespace for sure.
And, trying to, coach other,younger players, that is,
something they don't, easily,get right away.
Yeah.
otherwise I think you have tobe.
And in CCM, I think you have tobe a little more surgical with
your EQ as well.
Oh yeah.
There's so much more going on inthe tracks or on stage or both,

(32:45):
that you need to find yourspecific lane that you're
occupying.
Whereas if you're playing inlike a five piece rock band or a
country band or whatever it maybe, it's not quite as relevant
as long as it sounds good.
but in CCM it really is.
Otherwise you're getting moneyup your mix super quick.
And then.
On top of that, like payingreally close attention to like

(33:06):
your reverbs and delays, becauseeasily, if you dial a decay
wrong or a repeat, too high, itcan get in the way of the part
and ruin that as well.
So I think totally in EQ wise,there's, more attention that
needs to be paid, especially onmodern CCM music than you would
maybe have, to the same degreein other genres.

(33:28):
So true.
So

Joe Miller (33:29):
true.
I call it the mid range mush,mid range mush.
And we were talking before westarted a few that were in the
green room here.
We're talking about, the battlebetween the pianist's left hand
and the bass player.
And then, There's so many otherkinds of instruments, that
aren't traditionally in, say, arock band, you might have
orchestra instruments andtonally, it just gets so muddy

(33:52):
so fast.
So I really love that commentabout being surgical on tone.
Let's press on.
And I would like to just, Getinto some things that are
probably a little more specific,and people who have hung on with
us this long, thank you for yourpatience.
You probably want to talk aboutthis question, and that is, what
are the common questions youget, from your followers or for

(34:13):
people that you're mentoring andcoaching, either through your
offerings online or just yourinteractions on, the worship
team in regards to gear, inregards to voicing.
Yeah, just, What are the commonthings people ask you?
I'm starting to bring out sortof some Irritations or pet
peeves you might struggle withit.

(34:34):
There probably is a bit of anoverlap here So let's see that
one up.

Can I go first?
absolutely One question I keepgetting on especially for like
DMs and stuff is How do you getthat bracket, expensive revolt
sound with a$200 revert pedal orlike a hundred dollars revolt
pedal?
And I'm like, that's not that.

(34:59):
Why is that the first part ofcall when it, when it comes to,
to gear questions.
But, yeah, it's so not just retpedals, but delay pedals over
dry pedals.
So that's, and particularlybecause I think my audience, was
also from the Southeast Asiancountry.
so budget guitar gear is a, a.
Big concern.
And so the, some of thequestions I answer revolve

(35:19):
around, getting, I guess thestudio sound from the albums
with these hundred dollarpedals.

Yeah, I get similar.
I get a lot of gear questions aswell.
it seems like most of myquestions are gear related.
Now I'm a fractal guy, so I geta lot of fractal people, usually
asking me, Stuff about routing,and stuff usually with regard
to, FRFR speaker systems orgoing in front of house.
And usually the thing that I saythat kind of goes in with like

(35:51):
mid range mush is, You don'tneed the amount of low end you
think you need.
in fact, you need quite a bitless of it.
A lot of, especially my tonesthat are, put together for
worship are much brighter than Iwould be playing in, in, other
bands.
usually I like the Vox AC styleof amplifier.
I think, we are probably allfamiliar with that platform.

(36:14):
If not, we all probably use thatplatform.
that just seems to, it alreadyhas such a nice bright high mid
that cuts through, and there'snot a lot, you don't need a lot
of bass going into thatamplifier.
They don't have a ton of bass.
And then you have drives thatcut less space and then you have
boost that probably cut lessspace and then having a little
bit of a, of a high shelf, forme, it's anywhere between, five

(36:37):
and six K.
what's your low cut?
My low cut.
If I'm doing live stuff.
100 hertz, a fairly aggressive100 hertz, if not going up to
maybe 120.
and if I'm dialing in that lowend, I really want to hear it in
the space, in the worship space.
And these are big rooms we'reusually talking about.
So low end can build up there.
So in my studio, I started about80, 80 hertz.

(36:59):
And then if I'm dialing in an EQspecifically for live, I start
around a hundred.
And then from there, I give itto the, the sound techs.
if you less bass for me fromthere.
You can wind it up some more.

Joe Miller (37:12):
Other comments.

Yeah.
the gear thing is definitely thebiggest one.
People always ask, how do youget the tone?
And, so yeah, that comes up alot and the guys have already
touched on all the things thatyou need to have dialed in.
And, so one thing I normallytell people, of course, you
gotta get all that stuff dialedin correctly, but.
tone is definitely that thingthat was in the fingers.
I think there's a lot of truthto that because I never truly

(37:35):
understood that, but I used towork for, the Guitar Techniques
magazine in London.
And one, I used to like then goand interview famous guitar
players, and then I'd sit andtalk with them for an hour or so
while they would play, and thenafterwards we film it, we'll
transcribe it, and then it goesinto the magazine.
And one day, we were luckyenough to do an interview with
Joe Cetriani.
And, we had to take an amp tothe hotel because he didn't have

(37:58):
all of his gear with him, itwasn't at the venue.
And so a friend of mine who Iwas studying with, he had like a
blues boutique amp and like atone bone pedal and was like all
super classic blues sounds.
And then Joe just had his guitarwith him, and as soon as he
plugged in, even into thatbluesy rig, it just instantly
sounded like him.
And it wasn't a high gain amp orany of that kind of stuff.

(38:20):
So then that just reminded methat I always read about that,
the toners and the fingers.
And then, as I Thought about itmore.
It's like when you can trustyour technique to really dig
into your guitar and you canstrike the strings with
confidence.
You're not going to get a idlestring ringing out.
It's going to make your voicingsound bad or you're okay with
your picking or whatever, allthose kinds of things that just
that bit of confidence can makeaverage gear sound much better.

(38:43):
So people tend to think that Ineed to have this mega rig.
And yes, it does help when youhave, proper deal delays and
Reverbs and you can do your EQand you have drives and boosts
and all these kind of thingsthat we have access to right now
with all the units.
But yeah, so the technique thingis something that definitely
helps people.
And then on top of that, thesecond biggest thing there is.

(39:04):
like Jason mentioned, there'sall these stems and you got to
learn all these parts.
So for a Sunday, and that bringsa lot of anxiety for people
because you only have so muchtime in the week.
A lot of them are volunteers.
Their skill level is at acertain level as well.
And so with the little bit oftime, with the skill that
they've got to prepare all thesesongs.
And that brings That level ofanxiety and overwhelm.

(39:25):
And if you're in that state ofmind, you're playing is not
going to be good because you'regoing to be worried.
You're going to be stressed oryou're not going to prepare
well.
So they're looking for ways tolearn new songs and all guitar
parts.
It's going to sit well in themix.
It's going to perform well andthat they can play on, on, at
the drop of the hat, becauseobviously if you're going to
play something like.
if you don't do Lion and theLamb, the congregation is going

(39:47):
to expect to hear that introline, right?
But I, I'm a firm believer thatyou shouldn't learn all the
other songs note for note,because first of all, you can't,
it's too many of them.
And you need to find thatbalance between serving the
song, playing the parts, butalso giving your unique touch on
that.
And then how do you do that ifyou haven't studied music and if
you don't have incrediblefretboard knowledge and all the

(40:07):
rest of it.
and then I just tell the guys,there's a couple of techniques.
if you look at, King David, hehad to put on Saul's arm.
It was too much, right?
So he just took that off.
He had a slingshot and a coupleof rocks and he took down
Goliath like that.
So you've got to find, You'reseeing shot in a couple of rocks
and see what you can do withthat.
So that's fun.
Traversing those two big things,the tone and preparing songs.
And then obviously everything inbetween.

(40:29):
Yeah, that's great.

Sam Wittek (40:31):
That's so good.

Oh, sorry.
Yeah.
Go for it,

Sam Wittek (40:33):
Sam.
I was just going to say, just topiggyback off that, that's
really good.
Cause I think it's one of thecoolest things about music, in
general, like we could, I couldplug into any of your rigs and
sound like me.
And likewise, like you couldplug into my rig and sound like
you.
And so I tend to get.
DMs or comments a lot that arelike, Hey, here's a picture of
my pedal board.
I bought all the pedals that youhave.

(40:55):
Why do I still sound the same asI did before?
And it's Gear can help a lot,but like Charles, it's like what
you were saying.
it's, you really gotta use yourear and you really gotta learn
and you gotta listen.
And you're gonna sound like you,which is super cool.
that's such an asset to your.
unique context and your churchlike to be able to step in and
serve in that way.
It's like one of my favoritethings about all this stuff.

(41:17):
So the gear is like the icing onthe cake, but you gotta have a
really good base.
You gotta have a really goodcake that you're working with in
the first place.

And I think that's more worshipful too.
if rather than focus on saylearning a part note for note,
at least for me, it's much moreworshipful to not only play the
song, actually play thestructured song, but add in your
own voice to that.
is a much more worshipfulexperience for me.
I would say the go to, if anyoneasked me, how should I go about
learning worship songs?
Start with just your basic chordprogression and learn the

(41:46):
melody.
I think the melody is somethingthat is absolutely essential to
learn and actually to absorband.
and live within a song is learnthe melody, learn the lyrics,
actually understand what thesong is about before you go, you
just dive into, let's take alook at this part that is played
in the bridge of the song and dothat sort of thing.
Really understanding the songfrom just a foundational point

(42:09):
is a great place to start.

Yeah.
I get a lot of questions about,I taught privately for a long
time too, and it's a constantquestion of, okay, I play it,
but I don't sound like you whenyou play it.
How do I make it sound likemusic?
And there's so much that's justtime on task, like a lot of
worship musicians are just, allthey're doing is getting ready
for Sunday.
So it's just I got to play newsongs.

(42:32):
I got to figure out these parts.
I got five new songs I got todo.
And, and we try and help thatwith our service and go, okay,
here's how you.
Here's how you can do that.
But it's very different when I,even when I'm teaching a lesson,
I always have to do the musicvideo and I have to do that in a
full take.
I can't punch anything there.
And so there's always like thefirst time I get it through.
And then there's if I do thisabout three more times, it's

(42:55):
going to be awesome.
I'm going to feel better aboutit.
I'm going to fall into thepocket a lot more.
I'm going to just play it verydifferently.
And I think so many musiciansstop at that, like worship
musicians, especially stop atthat like 80 percent mark.
And so they never get thatfeeling of being confident and
starting to move outside of whatthey practice because, their
heart is involved and they'reengaging with the congregation

(43:16):
and what's happening in the roombecause we're just staring at
our pedal board and our fingersgoing, this is what I need to
do.
and it's that time on tasks,just that extra hour or two can
make such a difference if you dothat over 52 weeks.
Like you're going to become amuch better player and you're
going to do all the stuff that,Matthew's talking about.
Oh, we'll find these differentspaces and, like being able to

(43:38):
adjust in the moment.
And so that's the question.
I always go, how do we make thissound like music?
you practice.
It's like the most teacher thingto say ever.
It's like the most, Like thedad, my dad ness just comes out.
if you stop playing around withyour pedals and you actually
practice the part, you'dprobably be just fine.

When was the last time you played this?
Oh, last week in lessons.
Yeah, that's why.
Oh my gosh.

Joe Miller (43:59):
so the mantra is, no expensive piece of gear is going
to make up for that lack.

Unless it's a vintage 808, then you're gonna
need to sound like

Joe Miller (44:09):
Steve R.
E.

B.
Are we guitar players or what?

Yeah.
As long as you have Lamberttones, you'll

be fine.
That silver clawn pedal.

Joe Miller (44:21):
And actually that, I'm just gonna step outside of
the whole worship genre.
Guitars for musician genre.
This is true in other walks oflife, as a career coach and
executive coach.
I, these types of questions comeup there and completely
different venue.
it's, or maybe, for Sam, maybeif people are trying to figure

(44:42):
out how to make a living onvideo.
on YouTube.
to

Sam Wittek (44:45):
say there's a lot of similarities here.

Joe Miller (44:46):
So they're going to, they're going to say, Oh, what
do I need to do to get moreclicks?
maybe make better videos ofcontent people want to watch,
because you might have a coolthumbnail, in two seconds,
they're out of there.
So that's a basic principle.
And I think people tend to go,especially in this hyper engaged
world with no attention span,people get programmed to try to

(45:11):
get the quick solution rightnow.
And they don't want to go paythe price.
And in this particular setting,we have Mostly volunteers, and,
when you get a professionalmusician in the worship team, I
was blessed to be in a worshipteam in California at a larger
church and there was a basisthere that was phenomenal.

(45:35):
And I learned more under himbecause he just leaned over and
go.
You don't have to play everystring or he'd say you might try
playing the second or thirdinversion this time You could
just like or he might lean overto the worship leader who was
leading from the piano and sayPut your left hand in your back
pocket, but it made such adifference because he has such

(45:59):
so much skills.
He was a master, so he had thefreedom, but he paid the price.
he put the time in.
And, so anyway, that's a bit ofa rant, even though I get, I've
gotten ranted at on those pointsmyself, because I get, Matthew
and I engaged a little bit onhis channel.
I'm like, I think I might needto throw my head rush in the

(46:19):
trash and get a fractal, I likethe head rush.
But the thing is like 250pounds, it seems like for an old
guy like me, it's just amonster.
So

yeah,

Joe Miller (46:30):
that's or an

FM nine.

Joe Miller (46:32):
Yeah.
So anyway, yeah.
So anyway, that's a keyprinciple that has leveraged in
a lot of our discussion, Ithink.
Other thoughts though, what aresome other common things that
come up?

Yeah, I think it's really common to just sit,
especially like with a lot of mystudents, the tone under the
fingers sort of thing is really.
is really common because, if Iteach, a younger student, here's
what a C chord is, and then weplay the C chord.
I've played this C chordhundreds of thousands of times,
at least, Yeah.

(47:05):
No, you've learned this 10seconds ago, it's not going to
sound the same.
And that, that I think is alittle bit of a different
experience from, say like apiano player or the instrument,
the way that piano isconstructed.
If I go up and I just hit middleC on a piano.
It's not going to sound thatdifferent from a master piano
player going up and justtouching the middle C.

(47:26):
Now, master piano player canjust play circles around me,
right?
But the mechanism for creatingtone on the instrument is much
more automated on something likethe piano.
so the tone is being generatedby the piano, but with guitar,
you need calluses, you needproper technique to, sometimes
it's an arch technique.
Sometimes it's a flattertechnique.
It depends on what you'replaying.

(47:47):
You need to sit with the guitarfor much longer.
longer amount of time.
And whenever I see someonegetting caught up on these
minute, tiny details of justtrying, you're just trying to
strum this one secret in thesong.
Just try playing the entiresong.
I don't care how it sounds.
It might sound absolutelyterrible.
Just make the video.

(48:07):
It might look bad, complete thetask and try to make it a little
bit better next time.
And then make it a little bitbetter next time.
And then as you do that, as youlive within it, then you're
actually going to improve andyou're going to enjoy the
process so much more than justsaying the C chord isn't still
sounding right or this frame ofthis video, my jump cut isn't

(48:29):
looking and I have to spend ahalf hour or 45 minutes trying
to get this cut to be exactlyright.
just sitting on one andruminating on just one, minute
thing really pulls you out ofthe element of actually
developing skills.

Yeah.
There's a lot of, I get a lot ofquestions too, about breaking
out of patterns.
How do I grow?
cause, because what ends uphappening, I think, especially
with worship, which I'm totallyguilty of this myself.
Oh, it's a new song.
Okay, click on these pedals andI'll go bing, bing.
And I can do it.
I can fit in, I can stay out ofthe way I can do it in my sleep,
and usually it's, I do thinkit's sometimes looking at some

(49:08):
of those details and learningthings note for note, because
it's like you being able to copysomething allows you to create
things, And so it's, I know whatI tend to do.
Even when I'm like learningthese songs, I'm trying to learn
them like the record, right?
And how much that actuallyexpands what I normally play
because yeah I always do thisrun and I can just do this and

(49:28):
nobody will know the differenceBut I know the difference.
And if I start going, Oh,actually weird.
That's he's throwing the thirdin there.
And there's this little,actually, it's more of an
arpeggio there.
Okay, cool.
now I can start incorporatingthat into everything else I do,
but sometimes it's taking thetime.
we so quickly want to be like,cool, I can play it that we jump
over those things.
And people are always like, whatscales do I need to learn?

(49:49):
What, how, what theory do I needto learn?
It's how are you at playing thatone riff?
it's, it sounds great.
No, it sounds like a.
Tennis shoes and a tumble dryer.
it's uh, it's, maybe tightenthat down.
And it's funny because when youforce people to slow down and
actually really work on thosestupid little details that we
think don't matter and make it,it actually makes a huge
difference.

Everyone wants the secret.
And then you tell them thereisn't just slow down and take a
really close look at this andthen YouTube

guys that keep going.
If you just do this one thing,yeah,

this is a guitar thing, but, I don't know if you
guys have seen, but it alwaysannoys me when someone just pops
up on a YouTube ad or somethingand they're like, this one
pattern will get you to breakout of the box, but it's that
pen.

Joe Miller (50:33):
Yeah.

And I'm like, you're not breaking out of the
box.
You're just tying them together.
you're just moving the box.
You're just, you're stretchingthe box.
It's the same thing.
you want to break out of thebox.
You truly want to break out ofthe box.
on one string at a time.
The best advice I can give toany of my guitar students, try
to make music without any boxes,just one string.

(50:54):
And if you can't do that, thenyou don't know the music.
You don't know how musicactually works.
Try to build nice, compellingmelodies on one string at a
time.

Great tip.

Joe Miller (51:05):
What about specifically musically then?
So are there, I obviously triadsare powerful, understanding your
scales, understanding commontones, to keep yourself out of
trouble.
What are some tips we couldoffer that we think would be
helpful, especially in thisgenre?

The major scale is pretty good.

Joe Miller (51:27):
That's a good, pretty good place to start.

Yeah.
I would say that for.
for most worship musiciansgetting into it, understanding
how chord progressions work isreally good.
I, I said major scale four as ajoke, but it is true.
Like really understanding wherea lot of most worship music is
diatonic harmony andunderstanding the one chord, the

(51:51):
four chord, the five chord andthe six chord, the four main
chords.

Joe Miller (51:55):
And being Mr.
Nashville, Tyler, Nashvillenumbering system to be on.

Yeah, it's a pretty critical.
I've, I've played a four hourgig with 30 minutes notice
knowing only the Nashvillenumber system and the key we
were in.
So it's pretty helpful.
otherwise I would sayinternalize the song and the
chord progressions, be reallyfamiliar with the song where,
and especially dynamically, bigdifference to sound more
professional as.

(52:21):
Playing with dynamics and a lotof people miss that.
and so knowing when thosemoments are and why they're
there, is important too.

Sam Wittek (52:29):
Yeah.
I'd add learn to play in time.
I think nowadays too.
That can be helpful.
That's true.
nowadays everybody uses clicktracks now.
Yeah.
there've been so many times backwhen I was, working in ministry
where we had great musicians,they just couldn't play to a
click.
They couldn't stick to it.
So I think like more and morenowadays where more churches are

(52:51):
using tracks and especially as anewer musician, it can be
intimidating.
Like I remember putting in earsfor the first time and it was
just, difficult, but I hadlearned to play to a metronome.
I had a old, when I was like 12years old, I had one of those
old fashioned, like analogmetronome.
So just slowly learning licksthat way.
So it's, really important tolearn to do that.
Yeah.

Playing in tune is pretty big too.

Sam Wittek (53:13):
Yeah,

boy, you're learning how to tune your
guitar.
the basics make a bigdifference.

What to do for a worship guitar.
Play in tune, play in time, playin key.

Joe Miller (53:25):
That's a good start.
Turn on reverb.
Get

pretty far

with those three

right

Joe Miller (53:29):
there.
Here's something about playingin time.
I just want to throw out and seewhat you guys think.
there are certain parts that wehave in worship music that, that
are U2 like that have a dottedeighth and, a quarter delay, and
sometimes someone's playing thepart, but they don't have any of
those delays in, and they'resomehow or other thinking they

(53:50):
have to cover it without thedelay.
Have you had that come up?
it's a wild situation wherethey're There's no hope for them
to be able to cover the partwithout understanding this.
That's a case where you do needcertain gear to make it work.
If you want to be faithful withwhat the recording is.
Yeah.

And those, in those situations, the effect is
the part for sure.

Yeah.
It doesn't hurt to do play adifferent part though.
It doesn't like it doesn't,that's fine.
Come up with something thatfills the same range.
And

Joe Miller (54:21):
let's be honest, sometimes the parts I don't
like, even if I can play them,it's it doesn't really work.
At least not with this worshipteam, right?
I did that in the last

17 songs.
Maybe I should do somethingdifferent.

Yeah.
and that's true.
Yeah.
There's something like, youmight learn the song and
practice it in your own playingtime, through the week and then
you get Sunday, you get to a,Sunday morning or Saturday
rehearsal or whatever andrealize these parts that I
thought were going to be what Iplay are really not what I need
to play here.
And I need to switch gears.

Sam Wittek (54:56):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or the other guitar player playsthose parts.
So then you're like, okay, I gotto be open.
Yeah.
We got to communicate, what'sgoing on here.
Or you're

like, I think I'm playing it better.
So you better change the

Sam Wittek (55:09):
awkward eye contact.
You're like, are you going tochange parts?
Now I wanted to leave

Joe Miller (55:12):
enough time to get into the fun stuff and see you
guys go back and forth.
So What is your go to stuff?

Oh boy.

Joe Miller (55:20):
Oh, it's got your gear of choice.

Did we leave enough time for this part?
Probably

not.
I'll get my short answer.
It's whatever's closest.
I Love it.

I am I bounce between two guitars right now I
DGT and a 594 and I haveStrandberg's which I have played
in worship before I did aworship guitar video on my
channel and I played myStrandberg fusion for it.
And someone commented, imagineplaying this on Sunday morning.
I'm like, I just did.
and then I am, I'm totally ofthe modeler camp.
I use a fractal.

(55:54):
I have the whole ecosystem, theAxe FX3, I probably use the FM9
the most.
It just has, all, the mostswitches on board for all of my
tone changes and effects.
And I can run stereo and runningstereo, I think is huge to get
that worship sound and to getthose expansive delays and
reverbs.
I run two different IRs, sosometimes I'll run two different

(56:16):
amps and I'll do a Fender and aVox sort of thing.
but sometimes I'll at least justdo have a couple of different
IRs going.
So I have a 57 and a 121 on oneside and really go for just the
big added width that you canget.
But, I will probably very rarelyturn on my tube amps at a live
gig these days.

All right.
I was going to say, I used tohave a big pedal board with all
the amps and everything, butthen I realized when I made the
move to the Kemper, it wasn't somuch more convenient, To play a
couple of songs on a Sunday andyou can just dial in all the
stuff.
And, like Matthew said, you cando the different amps and all
those kinds of things.
So I think, you just need to geta piece of equipment that can do

(56:56):
what it needs To do and then youjust need to get to know it,
right?
Because it doesn't help ifyou've got the latest and
greatest, but you dunno how touse it.
it's all about, actually knowinghow to use what you've got.
And, so it's not necessarily thelatest and greatest gear out
there because, gas is a realthing that gear acquisition
syndrome.
But that's one of the thingsthat.
It gives you a false sense ofmaking progress, but you're not
actually just spending moremoney and you're not spending

(57:18):
time with your guitar.
So I think that's a big thing.
And, for me, guitar wise, I'vegot a couple of guitars, but, I
mostly just use my PRS Custom22, which I've had for over 20
years.
And I think that's anotherimportant thing.
You just got to know, where tofind things because when I go to
my Music Man or Strat, then allof a sudden the neck length and
everything is different.

(57:39):
It's not quite like it.
So I can play that guitar withmy eyes closed and I can really
trust my gear.
So I think that's important.
If you need to get a certaintone or you need to get a
certain note.
to trust what you've got.
and, funny thing is we normallydo a live stream once a week
and, we get cook questions andstuff, but I guess most people
are doing other things whilethey're watching.
So they're not always thatengaged.
But the one day I just askedpeople just to let me know what

(58:01):
gear they used.
And then the chat was justlighting up like a scroll,
right?
It was just like letting youknow the gear.
So it shows you there's a littlebit of an unhealthy obsession on
that side.
Of course it's important andyou've got to get what you need.
But, I think we've covered thoseelements, just improving your
playing.
And then Jason said, the gearthat you've got closest by
should do the trick.

(58:22):
It's not the gear it's about theapplication and how you use it.

Joe Miller (58:28):
The green machine is what I look at your guitar, your
PRS, right?
That's the one you're talkingabout, isn't it?

Exactly.
Yeah.
It's a green machine for sure.
I love that one.

And there's something too about, when you're
really mastering the gear thatyou have.
if like you said, Charlie, ifyou are just moving from the
latest and greatest and movingfrom platform to platform,
you're never going to masterthat new, that newest platform.
if you can get, if you can getabsolute Epic tones out of, a 10
year old piece of equipment.

(58:59):
You're not going to get thatsame level of epicness from
something that you picked up,last week, you're going to be
learning that for, the nextcouple of years or so.
So using what you know, The bestis going to be a much safer and
a much easier path forward andbetter sounding path forward to.

Yeah, that's so true.
I had a funny story about, likephotographers, people would then
say, you must have a reallygreat camera or whatever, but
it's not the camera, it's thephotographer.
But I had a story about ChetAtkins was doing an interview
with somebody and theinterviewer said to him, wow,
that's a really, that guitarsounds amazing.
And then they just put it downin the chair and he said, what
does it sound like now?

(59:39):
A great response about it's notthe gear and it's how you use
it.
But at the same time, we, we alllove our gear, so there's
nothing wrong with it, but youjust got to get your balance
right and not be over extendedin one, one area.

Yeah.
I'm always one to, I'm like,yeah, you can do anything with
anything.
But at the same time, there arecertain things that are just
feel so much better.
like I have, I have an ElCapistan, D tape echo or
whatever.
I'll never take that thing offmy board because I love it.
It's quirky.
It's weird.
It does all kinds of stuff, butI understand that thing.
And it's just I've had peoplelike, Hey, why don't you put

(01:00:14):
this on?
no, I don't care what your thingdoes.
I love that thing.
And I feel like the gear,ultimately what it shouldn't be
this, I need to get this becausethat will allow me to achieve
something.
The gear should be somethingthat inspires you, it's I joke
around saying, Oh, the thingthat's closest, but honestly, I
play every guitar reallydifferently.
Everything changes when I pickup my Strat versus when I've got

(01:00:36):
my Tele versus the Les Paul,like the way I play the notes,
the way I approach every part,it all changes, which for me, I
get crazy bored.
I've taught 700 song lessons atthis point, guys, I'm going
insane.
I take my job.
We most.
It's, and so like anything thatkind of helps inject new life

(01:00:58):
into things is really fun.
But it's all about like, how isthis going to inspire what I do
rather than help me achieve something that I hold at, some
standard that I think I need tohold because that's what
everybody does,

Sam Wittek (01:01:10):
Yeah, that's so good.
That's that's exactly what Ithink through if I'm going to
buy.
New gear?
maybe the first thing is is thisa wise financial decision?
do we have the money to do this?
Is the juice worth

Joe Miller (01:01:19):
the

Jason Houstma (01:01:19):
squeeze?
Is it worth, your wife isusually good at telling you
that.
Oh, yeah.

no, but really, I think it's, it really is just an
extension of our creativity andso I, I always think of just Is
this going to want, is thisgoing to make me want to create
more?
Cause I think a lot of thiscomes down to the like
consumerism versus creating aswell.
So if we're just consuming allof the time and let me just buy
the newest pedal, let me buy thenew big sky MX because it's new

(01:01:45):
and it's just gonna make mesound better type of thing.
maybe it could really inspireyou to pick up your guitar and
play more.
But I think whatever's going tolead you to create more, that's
going to be the thing that'sprobably going to be worth it to
keep on your board.
Cause similarly, Benson preampthat's the L cap for me, similar
to what you were saying, Jason,Benson preamp.
I got it was amazing, made ahorrible decision, sold it to
try something else.

(01:02:06):
It was awful and I got it backand I'm just playing so much
more.
So it's keeping its spot fromnow on.
I think that's

Matthew Dale (01:02:14):
important too, for, for like students, if I'm
teaching a younger student and aparent doesn't really want to
like, we're just trying it out.
We'll just see, we got this oldguitar from our neighbor who.
bought it, 20, 30 years ago.
And it's not, yeah, bowed neck,not in tune.
Like they're not going to enjoyplaying on this.
You'd be better off buyingsomething that, that is
enjoyable to play on.

(01:02:35):
And if, and I'm of the camp,like if you're, if your student
has been telling you time andtime again, they want to learn
electric guitar, don't buy theman acoustic guitar, get them an
electric guitar.
Cause that's what they want.
That's what they're actuallygoing to pick up and practice.
If you want to get, you're themost bang for your buck.
Get them the thing that they'vebeen begging for.

That's the parents.
the acoustic guitar over theelectric guitar is the, you got
to learn piano first, but Idon't want to learn it's six
years of piano.
And I got better on a guitar insix months.
And I've ever got

literally my story.
No, I don't want to play piano.
Give me an acoustic.
I don't like acoustic.
Give me an electric.
And then here we are.

That's crazy.
That's crazy.
Any other thoughts there?
we have a couple pedal boardfolks.
I know Sam and Tyler, are youstill pedal board primarily as
well?

Tyler Miller (01:03:25):
Yeah, I'm, back to pedal board this year.
I was on the FM9 for about fouryears and, yeah, back to the
pedals, back on a big boardright now.

Yeah.
And Jason, your pedals mostly.
And then we have Matthew andCharles doing all the ones of
different types.
And I know Justin, you go backand forth between pedals and all
in once, as well.
so that's an interesting thing.
And then this whole capturetechnology versus modeling.

(01:03:51):
I think all these things fitinto the same theme is don't get
distracted.
By the, it's like the first 95percent of getting there is all
in the fingers and in the timepracticing and in the stuff that
is in the trenches, grinding itout, the last 5 percent are

(01:04:11):
these where we spend most of ourtime talking to people about,
right?
So it's, yeah, that's aninteresting thing.

They're all tools.
You just need to be familiarwith what you have.
Exactly.

And we live in a time where, like 20, 20 years
ago, 15 years ago would havebeen like, no one's using
digital anything.
and now we have, not only do wehave the full like analog camps
and the full digital camps,striving has been putting out
digital pedals, fantasticdigital pedals ever since
they've been, in the inception.
I just recently got rid of aFlint, and I thought I'd never
get rid of a Flint cause I thinkit sounds awesome.

(01:04:44):
But, I'm paring down and on allof my analog pedals cause I, I
do so much digital these days.
But that's another thing, the,we're never really gonna
sacrifice in this day and age,we're really not sacrificing
tonal quality for analog, fordigital, for plugins, for
modelers, for, for, capturedevices, tube amps, whatever,
we're never really going to besacrificing.

(01:05:06):
if you're buying, let's just saygeneral, professional grade
equipment, we're not reallygonna be sacrificing tone
quality, but, like we've beentalking about, whatever you find
is most inspiring to you, you'regonna get the best results out
of.

And what we need is a company like a gear timeshare
where you have certain number ofcredits and you can just swap
things out, There

are pedal subscription services.
Are there?

Yeah.
I never get an idea out there.
You were that close, Joe.
You were so close to be a partof the revolution.
Oh yeah, so close.

Justin Chan (01:05:42):
Yeah, back in Singapore, we've got a service
called Rent a Pedal and thiscompany will, you apply for it
and they send you a pedal out.
You play for it, you play for abit, once you're done with the
30 days, whatever, send it back,and that way you can have a
revolving door of gear.

I wanted to switch back to another topic that I
think needs some morediscussion.
I'll pop it up.
And that is the whole silentstage challenge.
And, one of my biggestfrustrations over the years is
the crappy sound I get back intomy ears.
And it actually wasn't untilrecently that I started going

(01:06:18):
stereo and got two channels justso they could send it back to
me.
In two channels and I could panthem both left and right because
it was so distracting I woulddial my tone in at home and I'd
start playing and I justcouldn't even play because it
just sounded like, the hammerhad come down on my tone just

(01:06:38):
completely crushed it.
So I just, That's one thing andthen the challenge of working
with it's all about a lot ofvolunteers, right?
so you got volunteers on thedesk too and How do you guys
deal with that?
I've seen some of you have dealtwith this a little bit in your
content So I thought I'd throwthat question out.
I think it's an important oneThey won't let you put the
Marshall stack on stage usuallyin churches I don't think maybe

(01:07:01):
backstage amped up in a cab, youknow

I think inevitably that's just the direction a lot
of things are moving Our churchwe just overhauled You
Everything these past couple ofweeks and even the drum sets.
silent, they got a 10, 000 BWEkit.
And so it's looks and soundsjust like the real thing, but
it's still a silent kit.
it sounds incredible, but that'smy first experience playing with

(01:07:28):
a decent, even electronic kitthat's been enjoyable and
haven't even noticed or missed.
Miss it compared to otherelectronic kits I've played, but
like even, even outside thechurch spaces, a lot of national
stages are silent stages.
a lot of tours are silentstages, minus maybe the drum
set.
and I think that's just,Unfortunately inevitable, but

(01:07:49):
thankfully the timing of thatbeing inevitable.
we have so many choices of solidgear that it's not really
missed.
I'm always going to loveplugging into a tube amp.
Just bought another one actuallya couple weeks ago.
Um, I think it's always going tohave its time and place, but, it
is an adjustment, but thankfullythe gear is so good.
And there's so many players inthe game that offer great gear

(01:08:11):
that I think, It's a great timeto be a guitar player and have
access to even the Tonics onethat just came out for almost
nothing.
You can have an incredible soundand go stereo if you want for a
couple hundred bucks and nobodywould know the difference in the
audience.
and otherwise, like you weresaying with in ears in front of

(01:08:32):
house, unfortunately as a guitarplayer or as any musician, the
best you can do is just makesure you're sending the best
signal to front of house as youcan.
And inevitably what happens toit beyond that, you're at the
mercy of who's in charge and thegear they're running it through.
Sometimes they'll sound great.
Other times you, don't want topick up the guitar ever again
after that gig.
Um, it's tough.

(01:08:52):
And, I think just being again,really familiar with your gear
and adaptable, and flexible andknowing how to provide the best
signal you can.
And if it's not how tocommunicate properly and work
with front of house or monitors,to try to find that signal
otherwise, and then ultimately,if it's still not usable by the

(01:09:13):
time of the show or, the churchservice, whatever.
the event may be, just try to bea professional caliber musician
and just play whether it soundsgood or not because you don't
have a choice much of the time.

I think having a really good understanding of
signal flow, not just from aguitar player standpoint, but,
front of house volunteers havinga really understanding of signal
flow.
One thing that I always saywhenever I'm plugging in my
modelers is I'm sending themline level signal and
professional grade line levelplus four.
and I'm also sending them, selfcontained process guitar.

(01:09:51):
So not only am I going through,yeah, so I have EQ in place, a
lot of EQ in place.
I have IRs, so there's already,a mic signature within the IR.
I have compression already inplace.
So really, the only thing thatyou really need to do if your
patches are set up correctly, ona modeler, you just bring up the

(01:10:12):
fader and then adjust to thehouse.
Very little room, just to theroom.
so a little bit of EQ, maybesome shelves on either side of
the extremes in maybe a small,if any part of compression at
all.
And I think that big like thathammer coming down and squashing
your tone that happens to me allthe time because there's, a

(01:10:32):
certain level of signal, processprocessing that happens on a
board that I see with volunteersbecause, okay, maybe if you have
a little bit of a background inaudio, that, okay, I'm getting a
guitar signal, so I'm going towant this EQ, I'm going to want
this compression, and I'm goingto want to set it up this way,
and we need to turn up thepreamps, and you strum a chord,
and it's crunchy, and it'scompressed, and it's absolutely

(01:10:53):
awful, and that's, I tell themall the time, I try to be as
nice as I can, but can we tryturning off?
Everything that you have on mychannel and just start from
there.
And usually nine times out of10, it, it ends up being better.
And I, I tell them, bring thepreamps way down or bypass them
if you can bypass them.
and understanding that level ofsignal flow is really important.

(01:11:13):
As you mentioned, Joe, goingfrom mono, to stereo for in ears
is huge because not only doesthat.
give you a little bit, of awider space to actually exist in
as we're, here in, in our head,but it also cleans up rather
than actually getting dual mono.
through your one aug send, itactually frees up.

(01:11:33):
Now that you have two channelsgoing, you have a, you have much
more headroom.
the common thing, if you're onyour app and you're mixing, I
can't hear the vocals, so I'llturn those up.
now I can't hear my guitar, soI'll turn that up.
And now I can't hear this.
So I'll turn it up and you just,it keeps going up, up.
And you don't really realize,cause you can turn your master
down on your pack.
But now, before you knowanything

garage band time.

Yeah, and you're clipping your, your output or
the board is clipping the outputand you might even have, it
might not even look like it'sclipping because there's a
limiter in place, but then allthat means is you're shoving
everything up to that limiterand your dynamic range in your
in ears is about that big.
pulling things down, using thatmaster volume on your pack, and
leaving plenty of headroom onyour augs, it's easier with

(01:12:16):
stereo, it's harder with mono.
those sorts of things, like ifanyone's listening, how to get a
better in ear experience.
that's been my experience sofar.

Can I share a quick tip with HX Stomp or Helix?

Yeah,

so with the HX Stomp, you have the option of
decoupling the volume controlknob from the level you send
with the outputs.
So, what we can do with theoutputs is the outputs will send
line level at max volume and thevolume knob only affects the
headphone.
So what I've been doingsometimes, when I don't get a
good mix is that I have, thoseheadphone splitters, that I

(01:12:52):
will, create a more me mix.
So I will connect an aux outfrom the HX storm, to together
with my in ear mix.
cause I have a live, I have a,yeah, I have a live, What's the
live mix station and I, as longas I route them correctly, I'm
able to have a more me mix usingthe headphone output on the HX
top, which is the final elementin my signature anyway.

(01:13:13):
So that, that gives me totalcontrol.
So what I hear in my ears iscompletely the same as what I
hear back home.

Yeah.
Make sure you turn down your ME,do a mix minus on what they're
sending back to you.

Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
so consequently, yes, in the IEMmix, I do, I will turn down my,
my, electric guitar.
And, because it's a shared, livestation.
Live mix station.
they always, everyone doesn'tlike their guitar.
They turn the, they turn itdown, way down, like just wrong.

They miss the blessing

That is one of my favorite features about the line
six stuff is the fact that youcan.
Remove what that output knobbecause I've, going back and
forth from being, differentguitar players on a weekend to
me coming in on a weekend,whatever those channels are
always turned up way morebecause someone is using a helix
and they have the output reallyfar down low because that's what
they're, if you're plugging intolike their FRFRs at home, it's

(01:14:06):
really loud here, so I'll turndown and you go and you have no
signal when you go into a frontof house system.
And then I come in, I'm sendingline level.
this huge amount of volume thatcomes in.
They always, you're reallyturned up really loud.
Actually, you're turned upreally loud and you need to turn
down.
These are the things that gothrough my head when I'm setting
up

sometimes.
Yeah.
The whole front of house thingis interesting in church world,
because there's some, I don'tknow what it is, man.
I swear everywhere I've everplayed, the sound guy is just
that's his little fiefdom andhe's a little mad all the time
and he's really sure of himself.
And he doesn't, and itinevitably doesn't sound very
good.
And, like I think zooming out aswe, when we're, the question, he

(01:14:46):
had the question about likeworking with front of house.
It's like treating the soundengineers like pastorally as
part of the band

and

recognizing that we're all on the same team and
We're trying to get a goodsound, you're trying to get a
good sound, and you know what,Matthew's got some good ideas
about what's wrong with this,and that's okay, getting some
humility built into thatarrangement, and it's difficult,
especially if you're havingdifferent people all the time,
but a lot of times it's there'skind of these undercurrents of
bitterness and pride, all thisstuff built in there and just

(01:15:18):
being able to go, Hey man, we'reall trying to lift up Jesus.
Trying to make some good soundslike I can learn from you.
You can learn from me.
High five.

Yeah.
the other thing it's in smallerchurches in particular too, is
that tends to be a positionwhere they, all the Sunday
morning experience gets to bethrown on them.
That's not on stage.
So at least at our church, asmaller church.
down here in Florida.
That's what's going on with thatindividual.
He's a young guy, but he alsohas to make sure he has all the

(01:15:46):
tables and chairs set up in thefoyer.
He's got to make sure that allthe classrooms are ready to go.
He's like the detail, he getsthe last minute PowerPoint or
slides to push up for thepastor, so they're under a lot
of pressure and they typicallydon't have any training.
And what they're doing.
And so the other part of beingon the same team, I think Jason
is also advocating for them toget training and, and just say,

(01:16:12):
we really need to invest in thisperson.
This person is critical, Andyeah, but a hundred percent
agree.
Sometimes we're a little roughon them because we get
frustrated.

you will always get way more value, way more ROI
on investing in people ratherthan other things.
So training people, buildingrelationship is always going to
get you way further than, thenext big speaker or, we've got a
bigger fog machine or whateverit is.

guys, we've been going for an hour and a half.
That's, that was our targettime.
I wanted to just, pivot and seeif you have any final thoughts,
that you think could be good toshare.
This is a weird mashup, but,it's been great.
I think we've got a lot ofconnection points here.
We've, I helped me pull togethersome of the threads.
We talked about not gettingdistracted by all the gear and

(01:16:59):
all the shiny light syndrome,understanding that there isn't
really a shortcut.
In being prepared, you need tobe prepared spiritually for
Sunday too.
and that kind of dovetails intothe other thread that came in
is, it's serving the song likein any kind of a musical
ensemble, but it's also servingin a whole other different
dimension and making sure themessage is heard clearly through

(01:17:23):
the lyrics, but also that we'reserving the environment to help
people approach their Lord.
What are the things to be caughtup with?
Don't worry about the box orwhat we were talking about, the
other musical things, but helpme pull together a summary here,
if you would.

Yeah.
Use a lot of reverb.

Oh, that's what worship is.
Just all that washy stuff.

that's pretty much it.
Especially if you have a bigroom, you need more of it.

More is

less.

That's right.

I think one of the big things is just you gotta
work with what you have, right?
Like we, we don't all have allthe stuff, but worship music,
like leading worship.
is accessible to everyone.
It totally is.
Like you can sit there with aout of tune guitar and you can
lead worship.
That's a doable thing.
It might not sound great and youmight want to get better, but
it's like God is accessible.

(01:18:14):
And he will work miracles in thelistener's ears.
And it's a, yeah, it's not justwe all love music.
We're all super passionate aboutmusic.
That's what we enjoy doing.
And it is supposed to be fun andlike fulfilling and all those
things.
But it's our God is accessible.
That's the craziest thing.
And just remember, rememberingthat, as people, I think too,
in, in leadership and the thingsthat we do to be inviters and be

(01:18:36):
welcomers and just like, how dowe help?
How do we help you in?
How do we help you get in?
let's help this win.
Cause we, the more, the merrier,amen.

Charl,

you have any

closing thoughts?
It's late there.

Charl Coetzee (01:18:47):
Yeah, no worries.
No, it was great.
A great discussion.
And I like what Jason is sayinghere as well.
At the end of the day.
It comes down to us justunderstanding our role there
because, it's not like we send arider and you get to the venue
and if the stuff is not there,you can, make a scene about it.
that's not the way the Kingdomworks.
So we've got to go there with,Servant's hearts and be open to,

(01:19:09):
whatever challeng it is we mightdeal with When it's volunteers,
it's different levels of skill.
It's different levels ofequipment.
And I think if your heartattitude is the right way and
you work on your people skillsand make the main thing, then
God can do awesome stuff.
But I think it's when we take ita little bit too serious.
then we can lose the plot.

(01:19:30):
So I think it's important tokeep your heart right amidst all
those challenges, then God canstill move.
because that's why the word evensays, above all things, God your
heart.
And I think that helps a worshipguitarist, right?
So if your tone is not quiteright off the sound guide, put
some stuff in your, on yourchannel that you didn't like,
there's different ways torespond to it.
And I think it's a big challengeand we can definitely learn by

(01:19:51):
dealing, leaning more on theHoly Spirit to help us.
How do we solve this?
How do we respond to this?
And at the end of the day, Ithink that will serve the body
of Christ in a much deeper waythan trying to be a little bit
more pedantic about stuff thathas to be the right way.
Even though we'd love it likethat, it's a, the word we
started at the beginning issaying it's being adaptable.

(01:20:12):
So that will serve you superwell.

I think I'd like to have a closing summary thought
for different child.
I liked his, I really love hisanalogy of the slingshot and
having your personal slingshot.
what's your slingshot versus thestandardized military equipment
that you see out there.
And I think it's important forbusho guitar players to realize

(01:20:35):
that they have a unique voice.
They have a unique, they've beenmade uniquely.
And so they've got a voice tocontribute to their ministry.
So it's not about chasing afterthe big names.
Dusenberg and the$10,000 paddleboard.
But if God has called you into aplace where to serve him, you,
if you just need an ivanez and ahundred dollars war pedal, let

(01:20:55):
that be your, let that be thepersonal sink shot.
Let if that exhausting shot, usethat in shot to, to, yeah.
to serve the Lord with

Amen.
Amen.
Great.
Great work.

And I would say that vocationally, as Joe,
you've put this podcast togetherto, to, take people from one
career into the next career,looking for something that is, a
better fit, or they have abetter calling to do, we're all
here as musicians, becausethere's something within us that
just calls us to music, thatcalls us into this thing.
And it's really easy for us to.

(01:21:28):
have these conversations.
It's really easy for us to bereally involved and I think
that's a big thing where we canalways get into the minutiae of,
what effect settings, what, whatpart to play, this, that, and
the other thing, we can ruminateon all those things, but living
Within what it is that you'recalled to do and continuously

(01:21:48):
doing it and going the distanceand, worrying more now, I guess
worrying isn't the word, butpursuing it over a longer period
of time more day after day ismuch better than seeking
perfection before you go do thething.
So even if someone is starting abrand new vocation and they're
really, worried about this sortof thing, it's better to be just

(01:22:10):
really involved in the process.
And do what you can with whatyou got and then enjoy as much
as you can, not that, that wedon't have days that, we feel
like our work, I'm sure we allhave days where this feels like
work today, but at the end ofthe day, I would assume that we
all love music and doing what wedo so much that we can enjoy the

(01:22:34):
process going throughout anddon't get too held up on seeking
perfection.
You're

not going to get there.
Tyler, any closing thoughts?

Dang, I don't know what to add there.
Y'all have, don't have to.
Practice that guitar.

Yeah, there you go.
I will say it's been a real joyfor me to have you guys
together.
I appreciate you, having thehearts you do to serve the Lord
and being sensitive to that.
that talent that the Lord hasgiven you, the parable of the
talents, that you're gettingmaximum gain out of it for the
kingdom of God.
So with that guys, God bless.

(01:23:08):
And, Get ready for Sunday.
And Jason, you got to hit athousand tutorials before you
complain, at least, right?

you

it this

way.
I've done an acoustic lesson.
Oh, that's for everyone.
So technically it's more like1400.
There you go.

I'm playing a new song Sunday.
How quick can you get a videoup?

What's the song?
He's probably got it.

Another one.
Elevation.
Oh gosh.

I'm literally working on that this week.
All right, so you guys have eachother's emails.
Send

it over before Sunday if you got it.
All right,

guys.

This

was really cool.
God bless, stay in

touch.
God bless, thanks so much forhaving me on.
See you guys.
All right, bye bye guys.

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