77. Navigating Change: Leadership in Turbulent Times

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In this segment from episode 76, Joe Miller and Bob Tipton discuss the challenges leaders face during times of organizational upheaval. They emphasize the importance of authenticity, personal responsibility, and the natural processes of change. The discussion illustrates how leaders can navigate turmoil by being transparent, making themselves indispensable, and coaching their staff through uncertainty. The conversation also touches on the philosophical aspects of opting out of situations that compromise personal values.  For the full interview check out Episode 76.

Takeaways - -
Leaders must navigate their own feelings during change.
Authenticity is crucial for effective leadership.
Transparency builds trust with teams.
Opting out of unethical situations is a valid choice.
Change is a natural process that should be embraced.
Leaders should empower their teams to feel in control.
Compartmentalization can help leaders manage their emotions.
Coaching can guide employees through uncertainty.
Understanding personal values is essential in decision-making.
Leaders should focus on maintaining great work during turmoil.

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Episode Transcript

Joe Miller (00:00):
Let's say you're a leader in an organization and
your team that you'reresponsible for is in a lot of
turmoil because of messagingeither internally to the
company, what are externally inthe world.
How could some of these thingsbe applied in sort of that real
world type situation?

Bob Tipton (00:19):
Yeah, so when we translate this into leadership,
there's two dimensions to thatthat's important, Joe.
You know, I've been through alot of organizational upheaval.
I've been through mergers,acquisitions.
I've been laid off twicepersonally.
I was in a circumstance where Ilaid off lots and lots of other
people.
There's a real world componentto this for sure.
And leaders have a specialresponsibility when it comes to

(00:40):
navigating times of radicalchange.
I think first, it's a matter ofsaying, do I want to be part of
this radical change personallyor not?
That is the first question.
So another example from mylife, I was offered a really
great job when I was very young.
It meant moving to anothercity.
And all I had to do was lieabout a merger and acquisition

(01:02):
issue that was about to face mystaff.
That's all I had to do, whichis to train myself.
I said, no, this is not for me.
So there's an opt-out option aswell, I think is important for
people to navigate.
The second, I guess that's thefirst thing.
And then there's two otherthings.
The two other things are knowthat you're going to be going

(01:25):
through this personally asyou're leading people through it
themselves.
There's a level of authenticitythat people can see right
through if you're just being theApollo cheerleader, you know,
just stiff upper lip to use tomy British upbringing.
This idea that we just need tomarshal our energy and we'll get
through it and so on.
You're probably denying yourown process and you're not

(01:46):
helping other peopleauthentically process through
things themselves either.
So First, you need to realizethat you're in the midst of it
yourself.
If there are significant issuesthat are happening and how to
be able to not separatecompletely, but there's level of
compartmentalization that'simportant and authenticity as a
leader that's necessary.
So here's a specific example,Joe, when you're talking to your

(02:10):
staff about something.
Yeah, I'm not sure.
I don't know how this willaffect me personally.
I'm concerned about some thingstoo.
I get it.
And what I do have controlover, Joe, at this point as a
leader and you do as staff, youhave control over how you feel
about all of this.
I have control about how I feelabout this.
So what I'm going to do at thispoint is be transparent as much

(02:32):
as possible.
I'll tell you what I can tellyou.
I'll talk about what I can talkabout.
And I'll tell you what I can'ttalk about.
And you're going to need totrust me about that.

Joe Miller (02:41):
I tell you what I can do and what I can't do.

Bob Tipton (02:45):
Yes.
What do I have control over?
I have control over myattitude.
Right.
You know, when people areafraid of job loss, oh my gosh,
the worst thing to do is gohide.
Because the people that aregood at Discovering who should
go, that's who you look forfirst, the people that are
hiding.
The best thing to do if you'reafraid of job loss, and this

(03:06):
comes to the other side ofthings, make yourself
indispensable.
Continue focusing on greatwork.
Ladies and gentlemen, in mydepartment that I'm leading
here, no, we're not in controlof all this other stuff that's
happening.
But we're still in control ofdoing great work.
So I'm going to go downswinging if I go down.
I'm going to go down doinggreat things to support the
organization.
Or I'm going to opt out.

(03:26):
It's not this worry andwringing my hands and gnashing
my teeth and accelerating allthe activation of people's
adrenaline and the fight,flight, or freeze.
I'm not going to be part ofthat as a leader.
Either I'm in or I'm not in.
And for leaders, that can be areally hard choice because we're
suffering with fear and anxietyand the unknown because we're

(03:46):
human.
And here's one of the weirdthings that happens in
leadership.
It's happened over and over andover again.
When times are tough, And bythe way, this is a natural
process.
That's something I wanted toshare today also.
Nature has a regular process oforder, disorder, reorder.
It happens every year withdeciduous trees when they lose

(04:09):
their leaves.
And guess what?
The tree is not worrying aboutwhether it's going to lose its
leaves.
It's not worrying during thewinter whether it's going to
come back or not.
And it's not worrying when theleaves start showing up again
that they're going to eventuallyfall off.
It's just a natural process.
Or the caterpillar who goesfrom a caterpillar into a cocoon
and then turns into a moth or abutterfly.

(04:30):
There's no worry.
The in-between state for acaterpillar before it becomes a
butterfly, it doesn't look likeeither one.
Great example.
Completely liquefied.
You know, what about like ifyou walked into the middle of an
operating room during surgery,you think murder happened.

Joe Miller (04:49):
Yeah.

Bob Tipton (04:50):
It doesn't look like it did and it doesn't look like
it will.
It's this in-between state.
So order, disorder, reorder isnatural.
The problem is that we don'tallow ourselves to see that.
We're probably the only specieson this planet that actually
worries about it.
Dogs don't worry about it.
They just miss you and then youcome home and they're excited.
So this idea of leaders beingable to help staff recognize

(05:17):
that disorder is sometimes partof the natural process.
and holding onto things the waythey were, that's not natural.
You know, we can get into realphilosophical conversation at
some point about this idea ofimpermanence, but nothing
designed to last.

Joe Miller (05:36):
As you were talking about that situation, that
leadership situation, since I ama coach, I wanted to say an
empathetic leader should becoaching their staff on how to
look at things.
and clarifying what's real andwhat's not real, being
transparent about theircapabilities to help them

(05:56):
through the process, what theirlimitations are.
I've often coached people whohave been interested in
furthering their career,typically technology leaders,
but others as well.
And one of the common thingsthat happens is they get into a
state of angst because theydon't feel like they're moving

(06:16):
forward.
They feel like they can't doanything about it.
And sometimes, whether it'stheir fault or external factors,
they're in a situation wheresuccess probably, there's not a
lot upside for them there.
Yet, they still feel like theyshould be.
And you can offer suggestionson how you can do the things

(06:40):
that help you stand out, all thetypical things, manage your
relationship with your boss.
But underlying all of it, theyare disempowered in a state of
angst and almost panic, and theydon't know what to do.
And I have actually said topeople before, you have a
choice, you can stay and changeyour mindset, or you can leave,

(07:00):
or you can work, maybe there's athird choice, or you can change
your behaviors to stand out,but you may still end up feeling
the same way.
That's reality.
So there's the world you want,And then there's the world that
really is.
And so, yeah, awareness first.
But I just thought as you weregoing through that and unpacking

(07:20):
that situation with yourmaterial that coaching people
through these thought processescould be extremely helpful.
A coaching program, Bob.
You probably already have itdesigned.

Bob Tipton (07:30):
Yeah, maybe this goes back to my Quaker
background.
I don't know.
My family goes way back to theQuakers.
And one of the things they haveis a clearness committee.
And a clearness committee isnot a place to go get advice.
You don't go there to be toldanything.
What you do is you go there andthey ask you a lot of
questions.
And it's the idea for you to beable to get clear about the

(07:52):
direction that you're in andwhy.
So back to what you're saying,Joe, we always have a choice.
Even if it's down to how I feelabout it, maybe I have to stay
in the circumstance for a periodof time, but I can decide how I
feel about that.
No one is in control of myfeelings except me.
And that's, again, getting outof the echo chamber when people
are trying to make you feel acertain way.

(08:14):
But opt out, that's a powerfulthing when people are in the
midst of something that's very,very challenging to deal with.
This, again, is a pretty deepphilosophical topic, but there's
this idea of opting out is notfailing.
I

Joe Miller (08:30):
can argue that it's probably the best choice.
Yes.
In certain circumstances, likethe example you gave,

Bob Tipton (08:37):
but many others.
Often it's the best choice whenyou're being asked to do
something that is immoral orunethical or illegal.
You know, something thatviolates your personal set of
values.
Whenever you do that, you don'tget it back.
What happens when you cross theline is you betray a little bit
of yourself.
So when I'm coaching people,Joe, that's the answer.

(09:00):
That's the question I askedthem.
Are you betraying yourself insome form or fashion by
remaining in the circumstancethat you're in or potentially
staying in the same thoughtprocess that you're staying in?
And if the answer to that isyes, it's like, that's a pretty
clear indication to me thatopting out is a good idea.
Alternatively, maybe you'remaking it all up.

(09:21):
The circumstance isn't evenreal and it doesn't belong to
you and you're just You'reputting all this bias and all
this conditioning on top ofsomebody that doesn't deserve
it.
I find that a lot in mergersand acquisition work and
reorganizations is people have afeeling in general that that
radical type of change is justgoing to be bad.
It's a self-fulfillingprophecy.

(09:44):
It's like somebody reached outto me.
They're applying for a job in aplace where I have some
relationships and someknowledge.
I gave them a tip.
take a look at thisorganization's values and
connect your resume and yourinterview to their values.
It'll make a big difference foryou.
It's like, well, that's a goodidea.

(10:05):
Pretty basic, actually.
It's something that maybe weshould do every day when we show
up at work is to say, how can Ihelp push the mission of the
organization forward?
So all that's kind of in thecategory, Joe, of what to do as
a leader.
There's a lot more...
You know, the third part of mywebinar gets into some really
specific ideas associated withthat.

(10:27):
And I know we've got moresessions together.
So I'm going to save.