In this powerful conversation, Dr. Mary sits down with fellow physical therapist and cancer survivor Shanel Arimilli to unpack how perfectionism, people-pleasing, and chronic stress patterns can silently sabotage your health. Shanel shares her personal journey—how a cancer diagnosis ultimately guided her transformation from a traditional PT to a holistic healer.
Together, they explore the intersection of quantum physics, neuroscience, human physiology, and spirituality, and how true healing goes far beyond just treating symptoms. If you’ve ever felt stuck, burnt out, or like your body is begging for help while you're trying to “do everything right,” this episode will speak to you.
00:00 Introduction to TMI Talk with Dr. Mary
00:15 Meet Shanel Arimilli: A Journey from Physical Therapy to Healing
02:14 Diving into Shanel's Cancer Journey and Healing
05:46 The Power of Emotions and Intuition in Medicine
07:42 Understanding Pain and Its Messages
11:59 Integrating Physical and Spiritual Healing
25:27 The Role of Patterns in Healing
34:31 Exploring Different Types of Journaling
34:46 Understanding and Connecting with Emotions
40:34 The Importance of Asking for Help
41:17 Healing Through Community and Self-Awareness
44:01 Personal Stories of Overcoming Cancer
52:06 The Power of Imagination and Self-Discovery
52:50 Challenging Societal Norms and Embracing Authenticity
55:36 Taking Baby Steps Towards Self-Improvement
56:38 Final Thoughts and Resources for Healing
You can learn more about Shenal here
If you are a health or movement professional and want to stay in touch with future episodes, webinars, courses, events and more. Subscribe to my email list here
I’ll see you in a week!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Audio Only - All Partic (00:00):
Welcome back to TMI talk with Dr.
(00:02):
Mary.
This episode is for you ifyou're feeling stuck in patterns
or you're just feeling stuck inlife.
You're not feeling happy.
You feel like there's more, butyou're not really sure where to
turn this episode's for you.
Today, I brought on ShanelArimilli she graduated from the
University of California atBerkeley with a bachelor's
(00:23):
degree in physiology andreceived her master's in
physical therapy.
After years of clinicalpractice, she climbed the
corporate ladder in the hospitalmanagement and administration,
and also as a director ofclinical services before she
began her entrepreneurialjourney.
Her personal story of healingthrough cancer and its
(00:43):
occurrences led her to a deeperunderstanding of the science and
spirituality behind our abilityto heal and our soul's calling
for change.
Her signature approach takespeople on a journey to heal from
the cell to soul.
By merging quantum physics,neuroscience, human physiology,
and psychology to the age oldwisdom of spirituality and
(01:04):
consciousness.
Shanel's intuitive approach isused to elevate personal lives
and businesses making her asought after speaker workshop
and retreat facilitator, aspiritual teacher, and a private
mentor.
We're excited to have her on thepodcast today.
Ready to tackle the topics thatyou've been curious about but
never felt comfortable asking.
(01:25):
With a straightforward, nononsense perspective on life
blended with candid stories anda healthy dose of humor, Dr.
Mary Grinberg cuts through thefluff and addresses the
conversations we all need tohave on TMI talk where no
subject is to taboo our bodies,our minds, and everything in
between.
Now, here's your host, Dr.
(01:46):
Mary.
Welcome to TMI talk Shanel.
Thank you for having me, Mary.
Yes, I am so excited for you tobe here.
This is for you if you're a typeA personality and you've done
all the things that you thoughtwould make you happy or the
world told you would with eithermoney or children or success or
(02:09):
whatever it may be.
But you're still feeling likethere's more.
And I wanted to bring you ontoday to help people because
your story is similar to mine inthe fact that you were a
physical therapist and you are aphysical therapist and and your
cancer journey.
So I'd love to dive right in andyou know, can you explain your
(02:35):
journey from, from being aphysical therapist to where you
are now?
Absolutely.
Um, first of all, thank you forhaving me, and I love the topic
because I think that many morepeople than we know are hiding
behind a smile and.
Just hiding behind that smile.
(02:56):
So we think they're happy.
Sometimes we even hide behindour smile so well that we think
we're happy, but, um, that's notalways the case.
So thank you for the greattopic.
Um, and I'm so happy to be here.
So physical therapist to where Iam now.
I knew, I knew, I knew, I knewthat I wanted to be in the
healing arts.
I think since I was very, verylittle.
(03:18):
I didn't know what that meant.
Um, and PT was a reallybeautiful way.
I felt, um, to pursue thatlong-term relationship with
somebody, um, in their, on theirhealing journey.
I was, um, not interested inthose five minute doctor visits.
Like I really wanted a, ahealing art.
(03:40):
So I, physical therapy is whatspoke to me.
Um, and like most of us, I don'tthink life I.
It's a straight line.
So, um, that journey took me onsome twists and turns.
So I practiced, I kind oftouched all three areas of
healthcare.
So I was practicing clinical,um, clinically as a pt, and then
(04:02):
I fell under the wings of, um,or yeah, under the wings of, um,
a CEO of a hospital.
And he said, I wanna groom youinto hospital management and
administration.
So then I started to learn thecorporate side of healthcare.
So I was a clinician as a pt,then I did corporate healthcare
and then a stay at home mom fora little bit.
(04:23):
Um, and after that, that littlejaunt of being at home with my
two kiddos, I was diagnosed withbreast cancer.
And so then I became therecipient of healthcare.
Um, so I had touched, you know,again, the administrative side,
the clinical side, and then thereceiving side of it.
And that cancer journey, Mary.
(04:44):
Truly is what led me to whereI'm at right now.
And, um, just before we hoppedon, you and I were, were
chitchatting and I, and I sharedthat I've come to learn and I
hope that anyone that'slistening, even in the darkest
of moments or the most difficultof times, might hear that
there's a glimmer of hope whenyou can start seeing the
(05:05):
challenge as the gift that ifyou're willing to open it and
really do the inner work aroundit, your whole life can change
for the better.
So that cancer journey and thenthe 11 years it took me to heal
with a few recurrences is whatled me to doing mind body, soul
(05:26):
healing work, um, and doing whatI do now.
I love that.
And you know, I'd watched someof your, uh, story on, was it
speak up on Amazon?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And how you were saying that.
You know, just, yeah, themultiple occurrences.
And it wasn't until you reallystarted going inward to be like,
(05:50):
what am I not healing?
I mean, maybe you didn't say itexactly like that, but it was
like, okay, you know, we can doall these things and do Western
medicine can be extremelyhelpful.
But at the same time, what elsecan we do?
Like what, what else helps usheal?
(06:10):
And I think so much in medicineis less about emotions, less
about intuition, and more about,here's a pill, here's your five
minute visit and move forward.
Right?
That's right.
And then that dynamic shiftswhen you're on the other side.
It is a humbling experience andit, like you said, it was
(06:33):
perfect.
What you were saying is like,it's a little gift.
Like if, if you're going throughsomething right now and you're
like.
Man, I don't know how to dealwith this.
Mm-hmm.
I have never been presented withthis before.
I don't know.
I don't have any experience inthis.
Nobody around me knows.
I challenge you to lean into itbecause you know, being on the
(06:58):
other side of extreme despair,and I'm not saying I'm like at
some perfect level, right?
There's no ending in thishealing process, in my opinion.
Challenge yourself and lean intoit.
And so what would you say tosomebody right now that's
listening to this and they'relike.
(07:19):
I am, I'm doing all the thingsand, and a lot of times, you
know, I treat a lot of peoplethat are, tend to be Type A and
they're experiencing extremepelvic pain and they're not
getting answers and, you know,they're just not getting
answers.
Mm-hmm.
Like what would you say tosomebody right now, whether it's
pelvic pain or some otherillness or cancer, what would
(07:40):
you say to them?
Um, you know, I think that thething that I had to begin
shifting myself first is myrelationship with what that pain
was about.
So I saw the pain, or I saw thecancer as a failing body.
That my body is failing me, andwhether it's pelvic pain or it's
(08:03):
migraines, or it's allergies orit's cancer, the whole spectrum
of stuff.
Um, if we have the ability topause and change our
relationship with whatever thatpain point is, and we start
asking or understanding is thebody actually failing or
(08:25):
actually is the body somagnificent that it's messaging
me?
And if it's messaging me, thenrather than running to fix it, I
begin to have a relationshipwith it.
I begin to listen to it.
I begin to ask.
So I, I will tell people.
(08:46):
When I'm working with them andwe're working on healing, it
could be a joint pain.
Like, you know, I sometimesI'll, I'll be with a client and
they'll have a joint pain andwe'll go into the pain.
We'll go into what is thatabout?
Where is it coming from?
And I'll ask'em to put amicrophone in that pain or in
that discomfort or in theimbalance.
It could be a hormonal imbalancethat someone's experiencing.
(09:09):
Put a microphone in it, like,you know, intentionally just by
saying, you know what?
Theoretical, I'm putting amicrophone.
I'm, I'm putting, I'm puttingsomething in that joint or in
that pain because I wanna hearwhat you're teaching me.
I wanna hear what you're tryingto tell me is out of balance.
Not just in my body, but in mysoul, in my, in my
(09:30):
consciousness.
And so when I get to, to listento that, rather than see my body
as failing, I've already shiftedthe energy.
I've already put myself in anadvantage to healing.
Because the energy of what'swrong with my body will continue
to bring forth through the lawof resonance, things that are
(09:53):
wrong with it.
Totally.
Yeah.
Sorry, go ahead.
I didn't mean No, no, just, justa new relationship with, with
the body and how we, how we seeit and how we begin to work with
it and with our mind and, and soyes, I think that that is a
crucial first step in, in anychallenge.
(10:16):
It can be a challenge outside ofour body, right Mary?
'cause sometimes before thechallenge actually hits our
body, it's already been showingitself in our relationship with
somebody.
It's been showing itself in ourbank account.
It's been showing itself, youknow, just in our unrest.
And then when we don't listen,that message gets a little bit
(10:37):
louder and a little bit louder,and it starts to impact.
The densest part of our being,which is our body.
So, yeah.
No, I, I totally agree.
I think I was, you know, when Iwas diagnosed with cancer, it
was, I was doing all the thingslike purging all the, you know,
toxic chemicals in the houseand, you know, a diet, like
(11:01):
trying to clean up my dietconsistently and then exercise.
What I would, I didn't realizeis I was in such disconnection
from self, myself and my body,that my body literally had to
gimme cancer to wake up.
And if you're listening to thisand you're like, you know,
thinking, wow, that's, that's adifferent way to look at cancer.
(11:23):
Thi I'm five years out, so likethis, there was a lot of anger
at first, there was a lot offighting, there was a lot of
blame.
How could my body fail me?
How could it do this?
I don't understand.
And.
When you can just picture thenarrative a little bit
different.
Not saying your physicalsymptoms aren't real, they're
real.
You might need PT for them,right?
(11:44):
But what else?
Right.
The physi, the mind, body, andsoul.
Like what are of those aredisconnected, right?
So how can we kind of play witheach of those two look at
healing, not just from aphysical perspective?
Yes.
Oh gosh, Mary, um, I think youbring up such an incredible
point for people to reallyunderstand that when we're
(12:07):
bringing these concepts up,we're not saying that we're
dismissing the physical aspectof our healing.
What we're saying is when wereally want to create lasting,
permanent changes, really trulyhealing deeply, whether again,
it's migraines or it's pelvicpain or it's.
(12:29):
A joint pain or it's cancer.
Um, what, what were, I thinkboth of us have experienced
through our journey, and I thinkwe could safely say this in
different ways, but similarstory.
Like, I did everything physicalto heal everything.
Yeah.
Because I knew the body being,you know, a pt.
I, like, I understood the body,I understood everything about
(12:49):
it.
So I thought, and I was soclean, physically, like cleaner
than one per, probably cleanerthan 99% of the population on
the planet from juicing anddetoxing and, you know, eating
clean.
And I still had cancer.
And that's what pushed me tosay, what else?
And that's what led to thespiritual.
(13:11):
And so what happened, and I, Iwould want people to understand
this as well, from my ownexperience, I did everything
physical.
I.
But I didn't heal and I got sodistraught.
You know, I did the medicalstuff, the integrative stuff,
the natural stuff.
So distraught that I went,leaned completely into the
spiritual, and I still struggledto complete my healing.
(13:34):
But what I found was when welearned how to integrate that
physical with the spiritual, howdoes our mind influence our
body?
How does our body message us sothat we can shift things in our
mind when we integrate the partsof us?
Like you said, you weredisconnected.
Like we, most of us have beenwalking around, disconnected
(13:54):
from our heart and our soul, andthen we expect to be healthy in
our body.
It doesn't work that way.
No, it, it doesn't.
This is why we're at an all timehigh of mental illness, physical
illness, cancers.
I mean, you see young peoplegetting cancer left and right
now, and.
I mean, if you see even just thesocial pressure of being young
in this culture, like peoplecan't buy homes anymore.
(14:16):
They, their, you know, inflationkeeps getting wild.
And so that's just the external,that's environmental too.
You know, and then, then, youknow, working all these hours to
just make it by.
And so then there's no time tobe with yourself.
And I would say like, you know,'cause there was a time where I
(14:39):
was like, I don't know what thatmeans to be connected to my
body.
And I will say, and I'd be loveto hear your, your definition of
what it feels like this for youwhen you are in your body.
Okay.
It feels like time does notexist.
It feels to me like life isalmost too, you just feel in
(15:04):
your element, you feel like it.
You feel like yourself, you feellike you're, you're able to tap
into things that you've loved asmaybe even as a kid or something
like that.
And you feel like time flieswhen you're in those moments.
And I don't know if I'm evendescribing that super well, but
like, what would, if somebody'slike, what does that mean?
(15:28):
You know?
'cause the general people thatare listening to this, maybe
they're new to their spiritualjourney or they don't know and
they're curious.
Um, what would you describe thatto somebody that maybe doesn't
know what that means?
Um, that's such a greatquestion.
I, um, I, I tend to be very, um.
(15:50):
In my emotions, my thoughts.
I'm very flighty, if you will,from by nature.
You know, like etheric, I'm adreamer, I'm a visionary.
So being in the body and reallyknowing what that feels like was
probably, like you said, kind ofan, it was originally a very
unfamiliar feeling for me.
Um, as you were speaking, kindof the, the image that popped in
(16:11):
maybe that could help thelisteners from a different
perspective would be, it's verymuch when we're looking at, at
being in the body, we're reallygrounding a very expansive part
of us into a, a physicalexperience.
And it's like a tree, you know,I think of the tree that if, if
(16:35):
you just disconnected the trunkof the tree from the beautiful
leaves at the top and the rootsat the bottom, it neither is
gonna thrive.
You know, it's, it's.
It's not complete, it isn'tgoing to expand and grow, but
when your roots are grounded inthe earth, when you feel like
your body is actually the vesselin which you get to express
(16:56):
life, for me it's that it's um,it's this appreciation for this
vehicle or this vessel in I'mnot the body.
I'm actually the bo my body isjust an aspect of who I am that
allows me to have thisexperience here.
So for me it's this appreciationof being able to experience what
(17:20):
it is to feel grounded andexpansive all at the same time.
And I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would say like, you know, it'sfunny because.
The more I go down this, thisroad, I'm like, oh my gosh.
Like it's in nature everywhere.
You know?
Like trees, the mycelial, whatis it?
The mycelial network, like thewhole, like the mushrooms, the
(17:41):
fungi underground, and how likethese are things that are, are
just facts, right?
And so if you can see that andhow nature can almost be a
metaphor for us or is, you know,and, and like another thing that
I found interesting along thisjourney,'cause I like to speak
(18:02):
like,'cause I'm new to this,right?
So it's been, I've only beentapping into this kind of
spiritual, energetic world inthe last not even year.
And so I like to remember, Iwrite down a lot of these
beginner questions because itcan be hard for somebody to
understand and you just mightcheck out and be like, I don't
know what they're talking about,right?
(18:23):
Mm-hmm.
And, um, but.
It's this feeling of like, what,like what are your biggest
dreams?
Like what are things that youhave felt, you know, like to
people listening, it's like thatyou've felt, you've always
wanted do, but you don't havetime for, or who are people you
(18:44):
wanna hang out with, but you,you just can't make time because
maybe you're bogged down byother things.
What are you bogged down by andwhat lightens you up?
And if you wanna put this in ascientific perspective, I mean,
we've got tons of evidence onlike, um, you know, placebo
effect, right?
(19:04):
So, hey, maybe somebody respondsto this treatment or this
medication, but so do the peoplethat were told it was that too.
So the mind is incrediblypowerful.
So say maybe if you don't havespiritual beliefs, I just, just
entertain the idea of it.
Like what would that look like?
I, I would agree.
(19:24):
And, you know, um, since youbring that up, I usually want to
dismantle.
'cause I, I think that, um, myjourney was not about becoming
spiritual.
My journey was about integratingthe spiritual with the physical
and really just becoming who wereally are.
And so, I, I, um.
I like to dismantle this, thisconcept with people that
(19:49):
spirituality and consciousness,they sound like such lofty
things that you should do laterwhen you have more time in life,
but they're actually just yourpractical.
So I see spirituality is ourrelationship with everything.
Mm-hmm.
So if somebody says, well, Idon't have time for spiritual
stuff, I don't believe in it.
And I say, well, if you believein your relationships with your
significant others, if youbelieve that you have a
(20:11):
relationship with your body inwhatever ways that is, or money,
as you evolve that relationship,you're really just on a
spiritual journey.
The healthier relationship youhave with your body.
You're doing spiritual work, thehealthier relationship you have
with your, with your desires,your wants, your dreams.
That's a spiritual journey.
So I think it becomes a wordthat people shy away from like,
(20:34):
oh, I'm not that.
I don't know that.
I don't do that.
Well, we do it all the time whenwe bring the spirit of life into
all of our relationships.
We're doing spiritual work.
I think people, I love thatbecause I think people do think
it's like light and fluffy andlike there are people I feel
like that can make it sound thatway.
(20:55):
And ultimately it's integratingall three things, right?
Mind, body, and and soul.
And so if I do believe that incertain types of communities
that focus on certain religions,I do find that it's takes away
from the spiritual aspectbecause it's more, I think it
(21:18):
just gets a bad rep because ofpeople that have used it for.
For not great things.
Mm-hmm.
And there's still a lot ofreally wonderful people that
practice religion or knowreligion and spirituality.
But I didn't know, like we weresaying before is I didn't know
there's a difference betweenreligion and spirituality.
I thought they were one and thesame.
So I was like, I don't, I've hada very traumatic experience with
(21:42):
religion and I, I shied awayfrom it.
But yeah, I realized so much oflike, like what you're saying is
it's our magic and it's ourpower inside of us.
And I, so when we start to, Ifind when a lot of people are
dealing with like, chronicthings and I'm like, what if we
started doing things thatbrought you energy versus taking
(22:03):
like, you know, like where toeven start.
Absolutely.
Um, and since we were talkingabout.
What's not, what's, what is itthat's keeping us from being
happy, right?
And then if, what is it that, ifwe're dealing with physical
issues, we know that that drainsus from our happy place.
(22:24):
You know, when we're in pain orlimited or whatever that may be,
it puts us in all kinds ofemotional states.
Um, when we start to realizethat there is a simpler way to,
to look at our, ourconsciousness, um, and how it
relates to the healings in ourbody when we can simplify it.
(22:47):
And I'm all about making itpractical and real.
And I think you are too.
We both really pride ourselves,I feel, in bringing, it's like
bringing that energy intoreality and not some lofty
concept or principle that wehave to just go learn.
But really, how do we live it?
So I, I wanna share this, Mary,'cause I think it's super fun
(23:09):
for the listeners.
Um.
Again, if somebody were to sayyou could change your thoughts,
your emotions, and your actions,and actually contribute to the
healing of your body, anywherefrom, you know, again, migraines
and pelvic pain to cancer,wouldn't you wanna do that?
Like, wouldn't even if you aretaking, so I was taking medicine
(23:32):
and I wasn't healing, but when Idid the inner work and I began
healing my consciousness, whichis.
I, I teach it as a cup of tea.
So it's an acronym.
So acronyms make it easy for usto remember.
So we dismantle the complexityof consciousness and we say,
what the heck?
Forget that for a moment.
If I could just change mythoughts, my emotions, and my
(23:54):
actions, my t, my E, and my A,which is my cup of tea, if I can
work on healing those parts ofme past and present, I will
begin changing my energy becauseeach thought, each emotion
carries a vibrational frequency.
And we don't have to go into allthe science about it today, but
you and I can, um, can testifythat there is a large body of
(24:18):
research that has been done on,you know, our thoughts and how
they influence our humanphysiology, our emotions, and
how they influence our, ourstructures in our body.
And, and if we, if they impactour body, then we can also use
them to heal our body.
So changing your cup of tea,looking at your old thoughts,
(24:39):
your old emotions, your oldactions that you've buried.
And then if we're carrying allthat with us, how is it that we
can be light, free and happy?
It's like we, it's just carriedwith it.
We carry it on our back and inbaggages and we hold it with us.
And if we took the time torealize that any pain in our
(25:01):
body is actually just pointingus to a deeper healing, to
release, to shift thoughts,emotions, and actions that we've
done, um, we simplify theprocess of healing, but we
actually create, I think,lasting healing.
'cause we're healing at the rootof what I love that.
(25:25):
I love that.
Yeah.
It's, it's challenging these oldinner dialogues that we have.
So if you think about wearingglasses, right?
And if you have these liketinted glasses, everything you
see in those glasses are gonnabe tinted.
So the red glasses, everythinglooks red, right?
What if what we're talking aboutis putting on a new pair of
(25:47):
glasses that's not tinted, andyou get to see the beauty and
the colors and life and all ofthe things that life has to
offer.
And yes, the world is crazyright now, but when you can kind
of tap in and understandyourself, people around you,
your emotions, not understandingpeople around you, but
(26:08):
understanding how differentsituations and environments can
affect you physiologically too,and like how to start just
noticing those things.
I mean, you know, just notice,you know, like there are like
little details that I wouldn'tnotice before.
It's like, why?
Why do I get overwhelmed in thissituation?
(26:31):
Or like for me, as I become moreself-expressive, um, I tend to,
so after cancer kind of shutthat down.
'cause I had had people in mylife kind of shitting on me and
telling me to stay small.
And whenever I'd be silly,they'd be like, stop, you're
embarrassing me.
And I was just like, man, I hadreally a good time.
(26:53):
So I don't understand what wasgoing on.
And as I reflect back, as I movethrough this healing process,
like you can tap into thesethings and they can feel good,
but then old patterns will kindof pop up.
And it's almost like when I feelthat anxiety.
So maybe I'll go somewhere andyou know, like I was telling
you, I'm a bit of a ham and sowhen my hams comes out, I get
(27:14):
anxiety later and I go, oh, Iembarrassed myself.
And then I have to go.
That's an old narrative thatsomebody else told me.
Who is that voice?
What is that?
Because that does not define me.
And I think the hard work ismore of just the pro, like
(27:34):
reprogramming your brain tobeing softer to yourself and
kinder, and then recognizing oldpatterns and being kind to
yourself.
Like what if healing wasn'thard, hard work?
What if it was hard just becauseyou, just of the practice, but
not hard because it's draining.
(27:55):
Ooh.
Um, I have to say, I and I, Ilove this.
I'm, I love that because I thinkpeople do shy away from the
inner work because they thinkthat it's really hard.
And, um, I'll share a quote thatI like.
Um, it's far more painful toremain stuck than it is to do
(28:19):
the work to get unstuck.
If we would just be willing todo it.
Yeah.
'cause you know, it's like, oh,I'll just stay in this comfort
zone and stay stuck in thispattern and I, it'll never
change and it can'cause energycan change and we're all energy.
Um, you were talking aboutpatterns and I think that it
(28:39):
would, it's, it's so vital.
'cause I didn't heal because Iworked on one emotion.
I didn't heal because I changedone thought.
Like I didn't just do positivethinking.
I tried that.
Mm-hmm.
That didn't work.
It doesn't, I did positiveaffirmations for years and I was
like, I had recurrences.
Like, what is this?
(29:00):
So what I realized is that wedon't just dump, well, I'm gonna
say this.
We don't, who puts flowers?
Seed seeds of flowers in a bedof weeds.
Like who would really plantseeds of flowers, which are like
positive affirmations.
'cause I see a lot of peoplethat will say, well, I've been
doing this positive thinking fora long time.
(29:21):
Doesn't work.
I said, no, it really doesn't.
It's really important.
It's very important, but notwhen you put it on top of all
the weeds that exist within you.
And so when we dismantle apattern, which you were talking
about, it's the pattern that hasto heal.
Not just the emotion.
Not just the thought, not justthe trauma, it's the patterns
(29:44):
that created those that I thinkare important.
And so how do we get to apattern, I think is a really
great conversation you and Icould get, get into.
'cause I, I, I claim that I wasaddicted.
And people look, oh my God, you,you took drugs?
Or, you know, I was addicted toperfectionism and people
(30:05):
pleasing as if they were drugsfor me right here.
And so true for so many women,so true for so many, but
perfectionism and peoplepleasing and I couldn't just
heal my emotions to be able toheal who I am.
I truly had to dismantle thiswhole story of perfectionism and
(30:29):
people pleasing.
Those were just two of mypatterns, but there were many,
um, and I had to understand, soI would hope people would get
to, to take this home with themtoday is if you have a pattern,
ask, where did that pattern comefrom?
Did I see it growing up?
(30:50):
And if I did, I need to lovinglyrelease that pattern back to the
person that I know learned itfrom because it's not mine to
carry.
Or was I told to do it so that Icould be a good girl?
And did I, so who, who, who didI learn it from Or did it?
(31:11):
Was it modeled for me?
See, we have to start like, andI use journaling.
I don't know about you Mary.
I'd love to hear what you do,but I love it.
Yeah.
I journaled to get out of themind.
'cause it gets so complex inthere and in the heart.
Everything's a muddled messuntil you start like writing and
it just starts to get clear.
Like the lenses go from, youknow, tinted to clear was you
(31:33):
start to write.
But to write, answer thosequestions, like where did I
learn this pattern?
Was it modeled?
Was I told to do it?
Like, you, you know, you shouldbe this way.
You have to be perfect.
If you're perfect then you'regonna get a treat.
Or if you're perfect, thenGrandma's gonna buy you, you
know, whatever.
Or you know, or it looks good.
(31:53):
You know, Indian girls, in mycase, you know, Indian girls
were very nice.
We don't get angry.
So where did we learn thesepatterns?
Who did we learn them from?
And then the third thing that Ilove asking myself is how, how
did it help me?
Or what need did it get met forme?
So for example, being perfectmade me feel worthy.
(32:20):
It made me feel good.
So you have to use a process ofcompassionate inquiry to
dismantle the pattern.
So for our listeners, it wouldbe fun to be able to encourage
people to look at theirpatterns, to see them without
judgment, and to know that theybecame survival stories.
(32:40):
But those survival stories buildup so much toxicity in us and
keep us from our true self.
And then we have pain in ourbodies, pain in our lives, pain
in our minds.
Um, but yes, really dismantlingthe story and choosing a new
story now.
Right?
We, we can either rewrite orrepeat and the choice is always
(33:03):
ours.
Well, I think the biggest thingis so many people, including
myself, will be like, well, ifmy parents just did this or my
parents did that, and it's like,I can guarantee if you talk to
most people, they've had somechildhood trauma at some extent,
right?
Some really big traumas, somepatterns, right?
(33:24):
And so that's when these likegenerational kind of patterns
kind of kick in.
It's, it's trauma is you canhave two children that are
exposed to the same thing andone is, has the complex or PTSD
and the other 1D doesn't.
And it's, it's how theyinterpret it, the trauma that
happened.
And so not discounting trauma.
(33:46):
I've, I've dealt with complexPTSD and moved through it'cause
I've been through a lot.
Um, but my narrative, I waschoosing to suffer.
Suffering was a choice for me.
And if I stopped suffering andsaid, okay, what if I wanna stop
this?
Okay, enough with a bitchingenough with a complaint.
(34:08):
Mm-hmm.
Like, what can I do?
Where can I go?
And if somebody is like, wantingto get a journal now listening
to this, what are a coupleprompts you would give them to
start?
Because I know when I startedjournaling, I was like, what?
It's blank.
What do I do?
Yeah.
Where do I go?
So, oh, that's a great question,Mary.
(34:31):
Um, and there's different typesof journaling, right?
We can have gratitudejournaling.
That's beautiful.
That's, this is more of likemaybe the journaling to help us
to better dismantle or, or healsomething deeply, right?
So the first question I usuallywould ask is, what am I feeling?
(34:53):
Unapologetically it could behate.
And let me tell you, women, um,I know in cancer unforgiveness,
resentment, hate.
And it's not because we're badpeople, it's because we are so
good that we bury everythingthat wasn't so good.
'cause we got good at that.
We got good at being good on theoutside and stuffing it all on
(35:16):
the inside.
So I think one of the firstprompt questions is just what am
I, what do I really feel rightnow?
Am I angry?
Am I resentful?
Am I sad?
What?
What is that feeling?
And so connecting first with afeeling.
Well, we never have a feelingwithout a thought.
So let's say anger is a feeling.
(35:38):
I'm feeling so angry right now.
So then we ask the nextquestion, I wonder why I am so
angry.
And then when we ask, I wonderwhy I am so angry.
We we're going a little deeperto come to the thoughts and the
programs and the patterns thatare driving that anger.
(35:59):
And so then we might recognize,wow, I'm really angry because
I'm not being heard or I'mreally angry because there's no
time for me.
And so if we understand why I amangry, we think it's maybe about
we we, oh, it's'cause my kidswere being loud or my husband
(36:20):
wasn't listening, or my mom,whatever.
But when we really get to it,we're like, why am I really
angry?
Well, it's because you know,there's no time for me and if
there's no time for me, then wego to another question and we
say, I wonder where that patterncame from.
(36:40):
Where there's no time for me.
And that might lead us to, oh myGod, I had to be the
overachiever and in your case,so that I could be seen, so that
I could be acknowledged and sowe start to ask questions, but
we, we go in, I feel the firstis usually, how am I feeling?
Because women are also not verygood.
(37:04):
We, we feel, but we don't oftenfeel our true feelings.
Well, we were told like, likewomen are crazy.
Like, oh, she's probablymenstruating, or she's
menopausal, or she's pregnant.
And so then you're just like,well, I don't wanna be labeled
as that, so I'm just gonna not,or a nag.
Oh, nagging.
I'm like, or too sensitive.
(37:25):
Oh, she's so sensitive.
Oh, she's so sensitive.
She must be on her period.
Right.
You're like, these aresubconscious things we absorb
and you know, and like exactlyit, and it's different in every
culture, but it's, it's it sametheme.
Absolutely.
(37:46):
And, and I would reallyencourage people not to stop at
the emotion, you know, thatwhole TEA.
Mm-hmm.
So it's like, and so what am Ithinking?
What am I feeling?
And how does that make me act ornot act like?
And those are how we reallychange our whole narrative over
time.
Over time.
(38:06):
Oh my goodness.
Over time.
But what am I feeling?
I wonder why I feel this way.
What is, what are all thereasons that make me feel this
anger?
I don't get enough help.
There's no time for me.
Well, wait a minute.
There's the program.
We should not ask for help.
We're capable, we can do it all.
(38:28):
Superwoman.
Right, right.
Absolutely.
Because, you know, especiallythe, you know, the woman of the
new millennium, we can doeverything.
It's crushing us.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And so if we don't pause, and Ithink our challenges push us to
pause and the pause allows us toheal more deeply.
(38:51):
So, um, yeah.
Such a, it's, it's so profound,even when we both just sit and
talk about it, just how deeplyhealing this is.
If people would only realizethat while, yes, you can go to
the doctor, yes, you go to yourtherapy t yes, you do the
(39:11):
physical and you honor thisbody, but you don't stop there.
It's all connected.
And, and that's, you know, Ithink it's important like when
you're journaling and beinglike, okay, like what?
Yeah, what is this emotion?
What am I feeling?
Why am I feeling so angry?
And I find that type aperfectionist, like myself and,
(39:36):
you know, and people pleaser.
I don't wanna be a burden onanybody else because I have
learned in the past that measking for help around certain
people that I am a drag, butaround people who do this work.
Mm-hmm.
They honor it and they say,thank you for telling me.
Yeah.
(39:56):
I mean, maybe they don't say itlike that, but they're just
like, oh, cool.
All right, well, you're tired.
Or like, maybe you wannareschedule or, or, thank you for
telling me that you were upsetabout that.
I didn't mean it that way.
It's like, oh, I'm not gonna getyelled at.
Nobody's gonna get angry at me.
Mm-hmm.
(40:16):
And it's, it was hard'cause Iwas surrounded by a lot of
people that were like that.
And part of this growth isgrieving, the outgrowing of
those behaviors and those typesof people that have the ability
to make the change, butunwilling.
And I think that if we can startunderstanding and asking for
(40:40):
help, I mean, say, you know,sometimes we don't have a
supportive partner, but say youdo okay.
Say you have supportive friendsor you have one friend, all you
need is one person in your life.
Like just one.
And in that, how can, like howcan that per, how can you ask
(41:00):
that person for help, even ifit's just tiny, right?
So say if it's your partner,like I do have a lot of patients
who do have supportive partnersand they're like, I'm like, are
you asking them for help?
And they say, I don't want to, Idon't wanna be a burden.
I go, Ugh.
Healing's there.
Mm-hmm.
We don't heal in isolation.
(41:21):
Mm-hmm.
We heal in community and, andthat's my biggest next phase of
this growth is allowing myselfto be seen, allowing myself to
be myself.
And it's a little uncomfortable.
Mm-hmm.
And, but I know that's where themagic is.
And, and I used to just beisolated.
(41:42):
And this hyper independence isjust another form of unprocessed
in our work and, and how muchare we doing and doing and doing
and forgetting to be, how muchare we doing so that something
is being meant for us.
It's maybe, it's a sense of selfworth.
(42:02):
Like the more I do, the moreI'll be loved.
The more I'll be seen, the moreI'll be heard.
If I do more, if I do more and.
Um, if I'm working with, youknow, people that have an, an
illness of sorts, whether againit's cancer or any sort of pain,
I will al we will always diveinto how is, how is that meeting
(42:26):
a need?
And they'll be like, well, Idon't want cancer.
And I was like, no.
I know I didn't either, but whenI really, I never asked for it
consciously, but I didn'trealize that I co-created it
unconsciously.
And they'll be like, what do youmean?
I said, I co-created itunconsciously because what I
really needed was peace in mylife.
(42:48):
What I really wanted was to gethelp, but I didn't know how to
ask.
What I really wanted was rest,but I was a busy mom with two
children and a, and a businessand a husband that had needs
and, and family and siblings,and I needed rest.
I needed help.
(43:08):
I, I needed, um.
To be loved attended to becauseI was the nurturer.
So of course it was a breastcancer.
I was like over nurturingeverybody around me and
completely neglecting myself.
Every pain in our body and Iwill literally put myself out on
a limb with this.
(43:30):
Every pain in our body is a painsomewhere else in our life.
First in our heart, in ouremotions, somewhere in our life.
It's a pain unprocessed that thebody is finally bringing up to
the surface because it knowswe're ready.
And it's not here to take usdown.
It's here to lift us up.
(43:51):
It's really truly here to helpus to heal at such deep levels
and, and to touch our greatnessand our magnificence.
And it, and you know, I thinkwe, we can speak of this Mary,
because we both lived it.
It was scary and scary time ofmy life.
(44:11):
Not knowing if you're gonna liveor die.
You know, I don't How old wereyou when you had breast cancer?
42.
Yeah.
I mean, I was 33 or young.
Young, and nobody around me hadhad cancer that I knew that it
was under 70 or 65.
And not saying that thosecancers are, you know, when you
(44:32):
get older, right?
Like you're exposed to morethings and more things happen.
It's still horrible when you getcancer, but when you're 33, you
know, like there's a bunch ofthings.
I'm still working, I'm running abusiness, I'm in a marriage that
it's just not working and myfamily doesn't understand me
(44:52):
anymore.
What I knew before isn'tresonating.
I didn't know where to go.
I didn't know what to do.
I just isolated and kind of feltsorry for myself for a bit.
And then over time just madelike little strides.
But I mean, I'll never forgetthe moment when, um, it was
(45:14):
like, so I found the lump abovemy right collarbone.
It was like a golf ball sizedtumor.
I had Hodgkin's lymphoma and um,I'll never forget because I got
my scans missed, the originalcancer, which is insane.
I don't know how that evenhappened, but, so I had to have
them re-look at the, the scansand they were like, oh my God.
(45:38):
Oh my God, we gotta get tested.
Like we gotta get this out.
And I was like, oh, I had to goto a second doctor to get this
checked out.
And I remember she goes, shestarted freaking out, not
freaking out, but like, she'skind of a chill doctor.
And when you see her kind ofmoving fast, you're like, Ooh,
ooh, ooh.
Ah, I like this.
Tell me I'm over exaggerating.
This feels kind ofuncomfortable.
(45:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And mm-hmm.
She's like, let's do full chestCT full, like pretty much
everything except for legs,right?
Because lymphoma doesn'tnecessarily show up in your feet
or thighs or anything.
But anyways, and um, I rememberthinking, I was in the Whole
Foods parking lot in Cedar Parkand I go, holy shit, am I dying?
(46:23):
Oh my God.
It's not finding out for me, itwasn't finding out that I had
cancer.
It was am I dying?
I have so much more to do that Ihaven't done.
And then the day I got chemo, I,I swore to myself, I'm gonna
make some changes, but right nowI gotta sit in this and deal
(46:45):
with it.
Yeah.
It's so, at so many levels.
Um, it's so much to go throughand, and if doesn't, it doesn't
have to be cancer.
It could be any, anything.
Anything that pushes us topause.
(47:06):
Um, but I know I'm so grateful.
I'm grateful that I'm here.
I'm grateful for the courage andI'm so grateful that you're, you
tapped into your courage andyour will.
And the beauty of this is everyone of us has this.
Even when we feel like there'sno way out we have it.
(47:28):
I it, we have it in us in ourdarkest moments, that light can
come in.
Absolutely.
That's, that's where thebeauty's at.
I've never felt like now whensomething big comes up that
would've like, you know, I'vehad to deal, like I was
explaining to you, I we'rehaving to kind of last minute
move offices and that would'vebeen, it was stressful, but like
(47:52):
the next day after I found outwe were gonna have to move, I
found a beautiful spot, awonderful landlord, like all
this stuff.
And I was like, ah, I don't havecontrol.
I do not have control over thissituation, but what I do have
control over are my thoughts andmy thoughts will say.
Everything that has seemed badin the moment has been a gift
(48:13):
later on.
And so it's come to play everysingle time.
So why don't I trust this takessome time, I think, to see it,
you know?
Um, but why don't I trust thatthere's a greater plan that I
don't see?
And I loved, I saw this image onInstagram and I thought it was
funny.
It was like when the universehas other plans for you, and
(48:34):
it's like somebody's shooting anarrow and it's like they're
shooting it towards a target,but it completely misses the
target.
But what you don't see is thatit goes to the next screen and
it hits another target.
And I loved that.
That's so cool.
Yeah, because I feel like theway that I would describe this
(48:54):
process would almost be likeyou, you take a leap'cause
you're forced to and you're inthe air and you haven't hit
landing, but you're just in theair.
And it's so unsettling andyou're just like, okay.
And then you start getting somegrounding, then things start
(49:15):
kind of normalizing and thingslike that.
But I would hope, and you know,like I don't want people to have
to get to this point to, to makethe change.
And so I'm hoping like by ustalking and just getting people
to start to notice, uh, maybeit's more unhappiness than it is
(49:36):
illness or pain or cancer.
And I just, I don't want it toget to the point where I don't
want anyone to have to gothrough the treatment that I
went through and lose their hairand eyelashes and, you know, and
have people feel sorry for you.
(49:56):
I don't want anyone to have togo through that, but
unfortunately, pain is one ofthe biggest motivators of
change.
Yeah, it is.
And it's, it's maybe the pain isthe unhappiness.
Maybe it's the hamster wheel,maybe it's the golden handcuffs.
(50:17):
'cause you're worried you'llnever make the kind of money
that you're making, but you aremiserable at this job.
Mm-hmm.
You know, it's, um, you know,this, this topic that you, you
chose to talk about today.
Um, while it sounds like, oh,you know, what is this about not
feeling happy?
(50:37):
It, it, it's such a deep, deep,actual, deep topic because we
know that, that this unhappinessleads to a, a very limited life.
Uh, not only are we unhappy, butwe may be unhealthy as a result
of the unhappy.
(50:59):
Um, but we also live verylimited.
We don't actually tap into.
What we're really capable ofexperiencing in this life if we
don't allow ourselves to healthe parts of us that are staying
stuck in the unhappy.
And I feel like, I don't knowthat there's unanswer Mary, but
(51:21):
I I'm curious what you wouldsay.
I feel like the greatestunhappiness comes because we're
really not living our story.
Oh yeah.
And like what does that mean?
Right.
We're not living our story.
I mean, are we living the storythat our parents wanted us of
us, or that society wants of us?
(51:41):
Or are we living a story so thatwe will be seen as worthy?
Are we living what, what story?
And if we can heal that story,we will find on the other side
of it our happy story.
And it's not far away.
That's the amazing.
(52:02):
It's not, it's not.
It's here.
It's not, it's, it's really not.
I would say like, you know, wedon't use our imagination as
adults like we did as childrenand dream big.
Like we dream in abundance.
What does abundance look like?
Sure.
Financial abundance.
Great.
Like, that's, that's a cherry ontop.
(52:23):
But what about abundance oflove, kindness, friendship,
relationships, health.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
We only think of one form ofcurrency, and that's financial.
But, you know, um, there, whatdoes that look like?
And even if you don't think itcould actually happen, just
dream it.
Think it, absolutely.
(52:44):
What would that person do?
What, how would she think, howwould she act?
How would she dress?
Absolutely.
I'm in this phase of like, so ifwe think about it, right?
Think about all the programming.
That has happened to us, likefrom such a young age.
I remember seeing these littleskinny white Barbie dolls,
right?
And they, they weren'trepresentative of any other
(53:04):
culture or body type.
It was blonde, it was Malibu,Barbie, and Ken.
And that's the first thing Iremember about being a woman.
It was like, oh, I gotta have abody like this.
Okay?
Mm-hmm.
Ooh.
Women have to diet.
Women have to diet.
They have to be skinny to beattractive.
Nobody's gonna love you ifyou're fat.
Oh, okay.
Now you're, now you're tooskinny.
(53:26):
All right?
Um, you're too dominating.
You're not dominating enough.
We sit in chairs that weren'tmade for us.
The stairs that we use werebuilt for men.
The society that we live in andthe culture that we live in
keeps sending us messages thatwe're not.
(53:50):
Enough.
Literally not enough.
I mean, the Victoria's Secretdocumentary made me so angry,
realizing it was one man behindthe Victoria's Secret movement
and profited billions of dollarsor whatever, millions or
whatever on inadequacies ofwomen and their bodies.
And come on, nobody's body lookslike that.
(54:11):
I mean, even those women in thedocumentary, they were going
home crying like in the bathtub.
'cause they were just starving.
Oh, we were literally starvingourselves to be loved.
And so, and then we have to dyeour hair a certain color.
Like, don't be gray, we don'twanna be gray.
And hey, that's fine if youwanna dye, like I'm all about
(54:32):
it.
But do it for, don't you do itfor you.
Right.
Do it for you.
Not because of I need to look acertain way.
I stopped dye my hair.
I was dying at blonde'cause AndI go, where?
Why did I start dying my hairblonde?
And I remember, oh my God.
It was because I remember when Iwas 14, blondes are hotter.
Literally I've been dying.
My hair blondes off all the fun.
(54:53):
Yeah.
And you're like, well, I'm gonnahave to change that story.
It's these little, littlethings.
It's it, they get stuck.
They get stuck as mistruths andclothing.
I mean, everybody looks the samein the same clothes.
Lululemons, Hey, I haveLululemon stuff.
I'm not crapping on that.
I'm just like, what would itlook like if we had our own
(55:16):
style?
Right.
And we didn't have to keep upwith the trends Or the Jones is
that's, that's where the, that'swhere the fun is.
Yeah.
Going against the grain.
It's really, it's um, I thinkwhen we come into our own power,
our own sense of self, um, andit's a journey.
You, and we know this, it's ajourney.
(55:38):
And so, you know, no matterwhere anyone is in this moment,
all we have to do is take onebaby step forward.
I mean, just one.
And if that means sayingsomething that we haven't said
to somebody, if it means askingfor help, if it means looking at
our emotions with love, youknow, rather than judging it
(56:00):
just, or there's just one thingwe can do today, just one thing
that would benefit ourrelationship with ourself.
It is so worth it.
Oh, a thousand person.
Just see how you feel after it.
Just notice like, do you feellight?
Do you feel happy?
(56:21):
Do you feel like, ah, right.
Those are the, that we want.
I know, uh, women, we just wannabe held so much, but resist it
because that's what we're toldto do.
Yeah.
But in summary, you know what Iwould say, what we've been
(56:43):
talking about is start lookingat the mind, your body, and your
soul.
What things in your life do youfeel you're not being true to?
Like, what, where do you feelyou're just doing things to do
them?
What are the things that drainyou?
Right?
What are the things that exciteyou?
(57:03):
Mm-hmm.
And allow yourself to daydream.
'cause that's when you can startdoing that.
Then you start thinking about itmore.
Then it starts becoming morereality.
Yeah.
And how all of these things canaffect your physical health.
And then, you know, like youwere saying, we're not saying.
(57:25):
Don't look at the physical.
Yes, you have to look at thephysical.
Like if you have back pain, goget treatment, come to pt.
But where in your with low backpain often is where you're not
supported in your life and howcan you add more stability
there.
Yeah.
And so how can people reach you,um, or you know, your Instagram
(57:47):
and your website if, if youcould let people know so they
can learn more about you and anyservices that you would like to
explain to them that you, would,you offer.
Um, yeah.
Well, um, thank you Mary.
If I would say if anyone isstuck in patterns and they are
struggling to get the to theroot of what's keeping them
(58:08):
there and how it's impactingtheir body, uh, their
relationships, their moneystory, basically ready to get
unstuck.
Um, just go to my website.
It's my name Shanel.
At Shanel r.com.
That's a mouthful.
Um, but there's not too manyShanel r Millis around there.
(58:30):
Um, we'll put it in the, we'llput it in, we'll put it in the
description.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you can get there.
Um, from there you can email me.
Um, and that's also on thewebsite, and I'm happy to hop on
the, on a call if, if anyonejust wants to understand a
little bit more about whatthey're capable of achieving.
(58:51):
Um, all things are possible.
We live in a, we live in a very,very powerful time of in
existence right now, and we areall being pushed to awaken to
that power that lies within us.
And so, um, yeah, you can reachme.
I do private work, I doworkshops.
I have free material.
(59:12):
Um, also for people who may justwanna explore free stuff.
There's a free ebook on mywebsite.
There's.
Um, a Create Your RealityAcademy.
I can also send you that link,Mary, and there's some free
guided meditations andmasterclasses on consciousness
and healing and, and things likethat.
So thank you so much.
(59:34):
Yeah.
It's so great talking with youand I really hope you all get a
lot out of this because twocancer survivors and physical
therapists that were pushed toawaken because of physical pain
and illness.
I mean, when I heard your storyI was like, oh my gosh.
(59:54):
Oh my gosh.
This cycle.
Oh, it's, yeah.
And then here we are.
I mean, just wanting to helppeople to really heal at very,
very deep levels.
Um, wanting to know that thingsare possible even when they seem
impossible and really just goinginspiring.
Hope to, yeah.
To keep going, to keep goingbecause this gives you one ounce
(01:00:15):
of hope.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
You've been listening to TMItalk with your host, Dr.
Mary Grinberg.
Make sure to subscribe whereveryou get your podcasts.
To learn more about Dr.
Mary, head on over to dr marygrinberg.com and make sure to
follow Dr.
Mary at Dr.
(01:00:35):
Mary PT on all social channels.
To learn more about Dr.
Mary's integrative practice forpain relief in Austin, Texas,
head on over to resilientrx.com.
Thanks for listening.
Welcome back to TMI talk with Dr.
(00:02):
Mary.
This episode is for you ifyou're feeling stuck in patterns
or you're just feeling stuck inlife.
You're not feeling happy.
You feel like there's more, butyou're not really sure where to
turn this episode's for you.
Today, I brought on ShanelArimilli she graduated from the
University of California atBerkeley with a bachelor's
(00:23):
degree in physiology andreceived her master's in
physical therapy.
After years of clinicalpractice, she climbed the
corporate ladder in the hospitalmanagement and administration,
and also as a director ofclinical services before she
began her entrepreneurialjourney.
Her personal story of healingthrough cancer and its
(00:43):
occurrences led her to a deeperunderstanding of the science and
spirituality behind our abilityto heal and our soul's calling
for change.
Her signature approach takespeople on a journey to heal from
the cell to soul.
By merging quantum physics,neuroscience, human physiology,
and psychology to the age oldwisdom of spirituality and
(01:04):
consciousness.
Shanel's intuitive approach isused to elevate personal lives
and businesses making her asought after speaker workshop
and retreat facilitator, aspiritual teacher, and a private
mentor.
We're excited to have her on thepodcast today.
Ready to tackle the topics thatyou've been curious about but
never felt comfortable asking.
(01:25):
With a straightforward, nononsense perspective on life
blended with candid stories anda healthy dose of humor, Dr.
Mary Grinberg cuts through thefluff and addresses the
conversations we all need tohave on TMI talk where no
subject is to taboo our bodies,our minds, and everything in
between.
Now, here's your host, Dr.
(01:46):
Mary.
Welcome to TMI talk Shanel.
Thank you for having me, Mary.
Yes, I am so excited for you tobe here.
This is for you if you're a typeA personality and you've done
all the things that you thoughtwould make you happy or the
world told you would with eithermoney or children or success or
(02:09):
whatever it may be.
But you're still feeling likethere's more.
And I wanted to bring you ontoday to help people because
your story is similar to mine inthe fact that you were a
physical therapist and you are aphysical therapist and and your
cancer journey.
So I'd love to dive right in andyou know, can you explain your
(02:35):
journey from, from being aphysical therapist to where you
are now?
Absolutely.
Um, first of all, thank you forhaving me, and I love the topic
because I think that many morepeople than we know are hiding
behind a smile and.
Just hiding behind that smile.
(02:56):
So we think they're happy.
Sometimes we even hide behindour smile so well that we think
we're happy, but, um, that's notalways the case.
So thank you for the greattopic.
Um, and I'm so happy to be here.
So physical therapist to where Iam now.
I knew, I knew, I knew, I knewthat I wanted to be in the
healing arts.
I think since I was very, verylittle.
(03:18):
I didn't know what that meant.
Um, and PT was a reallybeautiful way.
I felt, um, to pursue thatlong-term relationship with
somebody, um, in their, on theirhealing journey.
I was, um, not interested inthose five minute doctor visits.
Like I really wanted a, ahealing art.
(03:40):
So I, physical therapy is whatspoke to me.
Um, and like most of us, I don'tthink life I.
It's a straight line.
So, um, that journey took me onsome twists and turns.
So I practiced, I kind oftouched all three areas of
healthcare.
So I was practicing clinical,um, clinically as a pt, and then
(04:02):
I fell under the wings of, um,or yeah, under the wings of, um,
a CEO of a hospital.
And he said, I wanna groom youinto hospital management and
administration.
So then I started to learn thecorporate side of healthcare.
So I was a clinician as a pt,then I did corporate healthcare
and then a stay at home mom fora little bit.
(04:23):
Um, and after that, that littlejaunt of being at home with my
two kiddos, I was diagnosed withbreast cancer.
And so then I became therecipient of healthcare.
Um, so I had touched, you know,again, the administrative side,
the clinical side, and then thereceiving side of it.
And that cancer journey, Mary.
(04:44):
Truly is what led me to whereI'm at right now.
And, um, just before we hoppedon, you and I were, were
chitchatting and I, and I sharedthat I've come to learn and I
hope that anyone that'slistening, even in the darkest
of moments or the most difficultof times, might hear that
there's a glimmer of hope whenyou can start seeing the
(05:05):
challenge as the gift that ifyou're willing to open it and
really do the inner work aroundit, your whole life can change
for the better.
So that cancer journey and thenthe 11 years it took me to heal
with a few recurrences is whatled me to doing mind body, soul
(05:26):
healing work, um, and doing whatI do now.
I love that.
And you know, I'd watched someof your, uh, story on, was it
speak up on Amazon?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And how you were saying that.
You know, just, yeah, themultiple occurrences.
And it wasn't until you reallystarted going inward to be like,
(05:50):
what am I not healing?
I mean, maybe you didn't say itexactly like that, but it was
like, okay, you know, we can doall these things and do Western
medicine can be extremelyhelpful.
But at the same time, what elsecan we do?
Like what, what else helps usheal?
(06:10):
And I think so much in medicineis less about emotions, less
about intuition, and more about,here's a pill, here's your five
minute visit and move forward.
Right?
That's right.
And then that dynamic shiftswhen you're on the other side.
It is a humbling experience andit, like you said, it was
(06:33):
perfect.
What you were saying is like,it's a little gift.
Like if, if you're going throughsomething right now and you're
like.
Man, I don't know how to dealwith this.
Mm-hmm.
I have never been presented withthis before.
I don't know.
I don't have any experience inthis.
Nobody around me knows.
I challenge you to lean into itbecause you know, being on the
(06:58):
other side of extreme despair,and I'm not saying I'm like at
some perfect level, right?
There's no ending in thishealing process, in my opinion.
Challenge yourself and lean intoit.
And so what would you say tosomebody right now that's
listening to this and they'relike.
(07:19):
I am, I'm doing all the thingsand, and a lot of times, you
know, I treat a lot of peoplethat are, tend to be Type A and
they're experiencing extremepelvic pain and they're not
getting answers and, you know,they're just not getting
answers.
Mm-hmm.
Like what would you say tosomebody right now, whether it's
pelvic pain or some otherillness or cancer, what would
(07:40):
you say to them?
Um, you know, I think that thething that I had to begin
shifting myself first is myrelationship with what that pain
was about.
So I saw the pain, or I saw thecancer as a failing body.
That my body is failing me, andwhether it's pelvic pain or it's
(08:03):
migraines, or it's allergies orit's cancer, the whole spectrum
of stuff.
Um, if we have the ability topause and change our
relationship with whatever thatpain point is, and we start
asking or understanding is thebody actually failing or
(08:25):
actually is the body somagnificent that it's messaging
me?
And if it's messaging me, thenrather than running to fix it, I
begin to have a relationshipwith it.
I begin to listen to it.
I begin to ask.
So I, I will tell people.
(08:46):
When I'm working with them andwe're working on healing, it
could be a joint pain.
Like, you know, I sometimesI'll, I'll be with a client and
they'll have a joint pain andwe'll go into the pain.
We'll go into what is thatabout?
Where is it coming from?
And I'll ask'em to put amicrophone in that pain or in
that discomfort or in theimbalance.
It could be a hormonal imbalancethat someone's experiencing.
(09:09):
Put a microphone in it, like,you know, intentionally just by
saying, you know what?
Theoretical, I'm putting amicrophone.
I'm, I'm putting, I'm puttingsomething in that joint or in
that pain because I wanna hearwhat you're teaching me.
I wanna hear what you're tryingto tell me is out of balance.
Not just in my body, but in mysoul, in my, in my
(09:30):
consciousness.
And so when I get to, to listento that, rather than see my body
as failing, I've already shiftedthe energy.
I've already put myself in anadvantage to healing.
Because the energy of what'swrong with my body will continue
to bring forth through the lawof resonance, things that are
(09:53):
wrong with it.
Totally.
Yeah.
Sorry, go ahead.
I didn't mean No, no, just, justa new relationship with, with
the body and how we, how we seeit and how we begin to work with
it and with our mind and, and soyes, I think that that is a
crucial first step in, in anychallenge.
(10:16):
It can be a challenge outside ofour body, right Mary?
'cause sometimes before thechallenge actually hits our
body, it's already been showingitself in our relationship with
somebody.
It's been showing itself in ourbank account.
It's been showing itself, youknow, just in our unrest.
And then when we don't listen,that message gets a little bit
(10:37):
louder and a little bit louder,and it starts to impact.
The densest part of our being,which is our body.
So, yeah.
No, I, I totally agree.
I think I was, you know, when Iwas diagnosed with cancer, it
was, I was doing all the thingslike purging all the, you know,
toxic chemicals in the houseand, you know, a diet, like
(11:01):
trying to clean up my dietconsistently and then exercise.
What I would, I didn't realizeis I was in such disconnection
from self, myself and my body,that my body literally had to
gimme cancer to wake up.
And if you're listening to thisand you're like, you know,
thinking, wow, that's, that's adifferent way to look at cancer.
(11:23):
Thi I'm five years out, so likethis, there was a lot of anger
at first, there was a lot offighting, there was a lot of
blame.
How could my body fail me?
How could it do this?
I don't understand.
And.
When you can just picture thenarrative a little bit
different.
Not saying your physicalsymptoms aren't real, they're
real.
You might need PT for them,right?
(11:44):
But what else?
Right.
The physi, the mind, body, andsoul.
Like what are of those aredisconnected, right?
So how can we kind of play witheach of those two look at
healing, not just from aphysical perspective?
Yes.
Oh gosh, Mary, um, I think youbring up such an incredible
point for people to reallyunderstand that when we're
(12:07):
bringing these concepts up,we're not saying that we're
dismissing the physical aspectof our healing.
What we're saying is when wereally want to create lasting,
permanent changes, really trulyhealing deeply, whether again,
it's migraines or it's pelvicpain or it's.
(12:29):
A joint pain or it's cancer.
Um, what, what were, I thinkboth of us have experienced
through our journey, and I thinkwe could safely say this in
different ways, but similarstory.
Like, I did everything physicalto heal everything.
Yeah.
Because I knew the body being,you know, a pt.
I, like, I understood the body,I understood everything about
(12:49):
it.
So I thought, and I was soclean, physically, like cleaner
than one per, probably cleanerthan 99% of the population on
the planet from juicing anddetoxing and, you know, eating
clean.
And I still had cancer.
And that's what pushed me tosay, what else?
And that's what led to thespiritual.
(13:11):
And so what happened, and I, Iwould want people to understand
this as well, from my ownexperience, I did everything
physical.
I.
But I didn't heal and I got sodistraught.
You know, I did the medicalstuff, the integrative stuff,
the natural stuff.
So distraught that I went,leaned completely into the
spiritual, and I still struggledto complete my healing.
(13:34):
But what I found was when welearned how to integrate that
physical with the spiritual, howdoes our mind influence our
body?
How does our body message us sothat we can shift things in our
mind when we integrate the partsof us?
Like you said, you weredisconnected.
Like we, most of us have beenwalking around, disconnected
(13:54):
from our heart and our soul, andthen we expect to be healthy in
our body.
It doesn't work that way.
No, it, it doesn't.
This is why we're at an all timehigh of mental illness, physical
illness, cancers.
I mean, you see young peoplegetting cancer left and right
now, and.
I mean, if you see even just thesocial pressure of being young
in this culture, like peoplecan't buy homes anymore.
(14:16):
They, their, you know, inflationkeeps getting wild.
And so that's just the external,that's environmental too.
You know, and then, then, youknow, working all these hours to
just make it by.
And so then there's no time tobe with yourself.
And I would say like, you know,'cause there was a time where I
(14:39):
was like, I don't know what thatmeans to be connected to my
body.
And I will say, and I'd be loveto hear your, your definition of
what it feels like this for youwhen you are in your body.
Okay.
It feels like time does notexist.
It feels to me like life isalmost too, you just feel in
(15:04):
your element, you feel like it.
You feel like yourself, you feellike you're, you're able to tap
into things that you've loved asmaybe even as a kid or something
like that.
And you feel like time flieswhen you're in those moments.
And I don't know if I'm evendescribing that super well, but
like, what would, if somebody'slike, what does that mean?
(15:28):
You know?
'cause the general people thatare listening to this, maybe
they're new to their spiritualjourney or they don't know and
they're curious.
Um, what would you describe thatto somebody that maybe doesn't
know what that means?
Um, that's such a greatquestion.
I, um, I, I tend to be very, um.
(15:50):
In my emotions, my thoughts.
I'm very flighty, if you will,from by nature.
You know, like etheric, I'm adreamer, I'm a visionary.
So being in the body and reallyknowing what that feels like was
probably, like you said, kind ofan, it was originally a very
unfamiliar feeling for me.
Um, as you were speaking, kindof the, the image that popped in
(16:11):
maybe that could help thelisteners from a different
perspective would be, it's verymuch when we're looking at, at
being in the body, we're reallygrounding a very expansive part
of us into a, a physicalexperience.
And it's like a tree, you know,I think of the tree that if, if
(16:35):
you just disconnected the trunkof the tree from the beautiful
leaves at the top and the rootsat the bottom, it neither is
gonna thrive.
You know, it's, it's.
It's not complete, it isn'tgoing to expand and grow, but
when your roots are grounded inthe earth, when you feel like
your body is actually the vesselin which you get to express
(16:56):
life, for me it's that it's um,it's this appreciation for this
vehicle or this vessel in I'mnot the body.
I'm actually the bo my body isjust an aspect of who I am that
allows me to have thisexperience here.
So for me it's this appreciationof being able to experience what
(17:20):
it is to feel grounded andexpansive all at the same time.
And I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would say like, you know, it'sfunny because.
The more I go down this, thisroad, I'm like, oh my gosh.
Like it's in nature everywhere.
You know?
Like trees, the mycelial, whatis it?
The mycelial network, like thewhole, like the mushrooms, the
(17:41):
fungi underground, and how likethese are things that are, are
just facts, right?
And so if you can see that andhow nature can almost be a
metaphor for us or is, you know,and, and like another thing that
I found interesting along thisjourney,'cause I like to speak
(18:02):
like,'cause I'm new to this,right?
So it's been, I've only beentapping into this kind of
spiritual, energetic world inthe last not even year.
And so I like to remember, Iwrite down a lot of these
beginner questions because itcan be hard for somebody to
understand and you just mightcheck out and be like, I don't
know what they're talking about,right?
(18:23):
Mm-hmm.
And, um, but.
It's this feeling of like, what,like what are your biggest
dreams?
Like what are things that youhave felt, you know, like to
people listening, it's like thatyou've felt, you've always
wanted do, but you don't havetime for, or who are people you
(18:44):
wanna hang out with, but you,you just can't make time because
maybe you're bogged down byother things.
What are you bogged down by andwhat lightens you up?
And if you wanna put this in ascientific perspective, I mean,
we've got tons of evidence onlike, um, you know, placebo
effect, right?
(19:04):
So, hey, maybe somebody respondsto this treatment or this
medication, but so do the peoplethat were told it was that too.
So the mind is incrediblypowerful.
So say maybe if you don't havespiritual beliefs, I just, just
entertain the idea of it.
Like what would that look like?
I, I would agree.
(19:24):
And, you know, um, since youbring that up, I usually want to
dismantle.
'cause I, I think that, um, myjourney was not about becoming
spiritual.
My journey was about integratingthe spiritual with the physical
and really just becoming who wereally are.
And so, I, I, um.
I like to dismantle this, thisconcept with people that
(19:49):
spirituality and consciousness,they sound like such lofty
things that you should do laterwhen you have more time in life,
but they're actually just yourpractical.
So I see spirituality is ourrelationship with everything.
Mm-hmm.
So if somebody says, well, Idon't have time for spiritual
stuff, I don't believe in it.
And I say, well, if you believein your relationships with your
significant others, if youbelieve that you have a
(20:11):
relationship with your body inwhatever ways that is, or money,
as you evolve that relationship,you're really just on a
spiritual journey.
The healthier relationship youhave with your body.
You're doing spiritual work, thehealthier relationship you have
with your, with your desires,your wants, your dreams.
That's a spiritual journey.
So I think it becomes a wordthat people shy away from like,
(20:34):
oh, I'm not that.
I don't know that.
I don't do that.
Well, we do it all the time whenwe bring the spirit of life into
all of our relationships.
We're doing spiritual work.
I think people, I love thatbecause I think people do think
it's like light and fluffy andlike there are people I feel
like that can make it sound thatway.
(20:55):
And ultimately it's integratingall three things, right?
Mind, body, and and soul.
And so if I do believe that incertain types of communities
that focus on certain religions,I do find that it's takes away
from the spiritual aspectbecause it's more, I think it
(21:18):
just gets a bad rep because ofpeople that have used it for.
For not great things.
Mm-hmm.
And there's still a lot ofreally wonderful people that
practice religion or knowreligion and spirituality.
But I didn't know, like we weresaying before is I didn't know
there's a difference betweenreligion and spirituality.
I thought they were one and thesame.
So I was like, I don't, I've hada very traumatic experience with
(21:42):
religion and I, I shied awayfrom it.
But yeah, I realized so much oflike, like what you're saying is
it's our magic and it's ourpower inside of us.
And I, so when we start to, Ifind when a lot of people are
dealing with like, chronicthings and I'm like, what if we
started doing things thatbrought you energy versus taking
(22:03):
like, you know, like where toeven start.
Absolutely.
Um, and since we were talkingabout.
What's not, what's, what is itthat's keeping us from being
happy, right?
And then if, what is it that, ifwe're dealing with physical
issues, we know that that drainsus from our happy place.
(22:24):
You know, when we're in pain orlimited or whatever that may be,
it puts us in all kinds ofemotional states.
Um, when we start to realizethat there is a simpler way to,
to look at our, ourconsciousness, um, and how it
relates to the healings in ourbody when we can simplify it.
(22:47):
And I'm all about making itpractical and real.
And I think you are too.
We both really pride ourselves,I feel, in bringing, it's like
bringing that energy intoreality and not some lofty
concept or principle that wehave to just go learn.
But really, how do we live it?
So I, I wanna share this, Mary,'cause I think it's super fun
(23:09):
for the listeners.
Um.
Again, if somebody were to sayyou could change your thoughts,
your emotions, and your actions,and actually contribute to the
healing of your body, anywherefrom, you know, again, migraines
and pelvic pain to cancer,wouldn't you wanna do that?
Like, wouldn't even if you aretaking, so I was taking medicine
(23:32):
and I wasn't healing, but when Idid the inner work and I began
healing my consciousness, whichis.
I, I teach it as a cup of tea.
So it's an acronym.
So acronyms make it easy for usto remember.
So we dismantle the complexityof consciousness and we say,
what the heck?
Forget that for a moment.
If I could just change mythoughts, my emotions, and my
(23:54):
actions, my t, my E, and my A,which is my cup of tea, if I can
work on healing those parts ofme past and present, I will
begin changing my energy becauseeach thought, each emotion
carries a vibrational frequency.
And we don't have to go into allthe science about it today, but
you and I can, um, can testifythat there is a large body of
(24:18):
research that has been done on,you know, our thoughts and how
they influence our humanphysiology, our emotions, and
how they influence our, ourstructures in our body.
And, and if we, if they impactour body, then we can also use
them to heal our body.
So changing your cup of tea,looking at your old thoughts,
(24:39):
your old emotions, your oldactions that you've buried.
And then if we're carrying allthat with us, how is it that we
can be light, free and happy?
It's like we, it's just carriedwith it.
We carry it on our back and inbaggages and we hold it with us.
And if we took the time torealize that any pain in our
(25:01):
body is actually just pointingus to a deeper healing, to
release, to shift thoughts,emotions, and actions that we've
done, um, we simplify theprocess of healing, but we
actually create, I think,lasting healing.
'cause we're healing at the rootof what I love that.
(25:25):
I love that.
Yeah.
It's, it's challenging these oldinner dialogues that we have.
So if you think about wearingglasses, right?
And if you have these liketinted glasses, everything you
see in those glasses are gonnabe tinted.
So the red glasses, everythinglooks red, right?
What if what we're talking aboutis putting on a new pair of
(25:47):
glasses that's not tinted, andyou get to see the beauty and
the colors and life and all ofthe things that life has to
offer.
And yes, the world is crazyright now, but when you can kind
of tap in and understandyourself, people around you,
your emotions, not understandingpeople around you, but
(26:08):
understanding how differentsituations and environments can
affect you physiologically too,and like how to start just
noticing those things.
I mean, you know, just notice,you know, like there are like
little details that I wouldn'tnotice before.
It's like, why?
Why do I get overwhelmed in thissituation?
(26:31):
Or like for me, as I become moreself-expressive, um, I tend to,
so after cancer kind of shutthat down.
'cause I had had people in mylife kind of shitting on me and
telling me to stay small.
And whenever I'd be silly,they'd be like, stop, you're
embarrassing me.
And I was just like, man, I hadreally a good time.
(26:53):
So I don't understand what wasgoing on.
And as I reflect back, as I movethrough this healing process,
like you can tap into thesethings and they can feel good,
but then old patterns will kindof pop up.
And it's almost like when I feelthat anxiety.
So maybe I'll go somewhere andyou know, like I was telling
you, I'm a bit of a ham and sowhen my hams comes out, I get
(27:14):
anxiety later and I go, oh, Iembarrassed myself.
And then I have to go.
That's an old narrative thatsomebody else told me.
Who is that voice?
What is that?
Because that does not define me.
And I think the hard work ismore of just the pro, like
(27:34):
reprogramming your brain tobeing softer to yourself and
kinder, and then recognizing oldpatterns and being kind to
yourself.
Like what if healing wasn'thard, hard work?
What if it was hard just becauseyou, just of the practice, but
not hard because it's draining.
(27:55):
Ooh.
Um, I have to say, I and I, Ilove this.
I'm, I love that because I thinkpeople do shy away from the
inner work because they thinkthat it's really hard.
And, um, I'll share a quote thatI like.
Um, it's far more painful toremain stuck than it is to do
(28:19):
the work to get unstuck.
If we would just be willing todo it.
Yeah.
'cause you know, it's like, oh,I'll just stay in this comfort
zone and stay stuck in thispattern and I, it'll never
change and it can'cause energycan change and we're all energy.
Um, you were talking aboutpatterns and I think that it
(28:39):
would, it's, it's so vital.
'cause I didn't heal because Iworked on one emotion.
I didn't heal because I changedone thought.
Like I didn't just do positivethinking.
I tried that.
Mm-hmm.
That didn't work.
It doesn't, I did positiveaffirmations for years and I was
like, I had recurrences.
Like, what is this?
(29:00):
So what I realized is that wedon't just dump, well, I'm gonna
say this.
We don't, who puts flowers?
Seed seeds of flowers in a bedof weeds.
Like who would really plantseeds of flowers, which are like
positive affirmations.
'cause I see a lot of peoplethat will say, well, I've been
doing this positive thinking fora long time.
(29:21):
Doesn't work.
I said, no, it really doesn't.
It's really important.
It's very important, but notwhen you put it on top of all
the weeds that exist within you.
And so when we dismantle apattern, which you were talking
about, it's the pattern that hasto heal.
Not just the emotion.
Not just the thought, not justthe trauma, it's the patterns
(29:44):
that created those that I thinkare important.
And so how do we get to apattern, I think is a really
great conversation you and Icould get, get into.
'cause I, I, I claim that I wasaddicted.
And people look, oh my God, you,you took drugs?
Or, you know, I was addicted toperfectionism and people
(30:05):
pleasing as if they were drugsfor me right here.
And so true for so many women,so true for so many, but
perfectionism and peoplepleasing and I couldn't just
heal my emotions to be able toheal who I am.
I truly had to dismantle thiswhole story of perfectionism and
(30:29):
people pleasing.
Those were just two of mypatterns, but there were many,
um, and I had to understand, soI would hope people would get
to, to take this home with themtoday is if you have a pattern,
ask, where did that pattern comefrom?
Did I see it growing up?
(30:50):
And if I did, I need to lovinglyrelease that pattern back to the
person that I know learned itfrom because it's not mine to
carry.
Or was I told to do it so that Icould be a good girl?
And did I, so who, who, who didI learn it from Or did it?
(31:11):
Was it modeled for me?
See, we have to start like, andI use journaling.
I don't know about you Mary.
I'd love to hear what you do,but I love it.
Yeah.
I journaled to get out of themind.
'cause it gets so complex inthere and in the heart.
Everything's a muddled messuntil you start like writing and
it just starts to get clear.
Like the lenses go from, youknow, tinted to clear was you
(31:33):
start to write.
But to write, answer thosequestions, like where did I
learn this pattern?
Was it modeled?
Was I told to do it?
Like, you, you know, you shouldbe this way.
You have to be perfect.
If you're perfect then you'regonna get a treat.
Or if you're perfect, thenGrandma's gonna buy you, you
know, whatever.
Or you know, or it looks good.
(31:53):
You know, Indian girls, in mycase, you know, Indian girls
were very nice.
We don't get angry.
So where did we learn thesepatterns?
Who did we learn them from?
And then the third thing that Ilove asking myself is how, how
did it help me?
Or what need did it get met forme?
So for example, being perfectmade me feel worthy.
(32:20):
It made me feel good.
So you have to use a process ofcompassionate inquiry to
dismantle the pattern.
So for our listeners, it wouldbe fun to be able to encourage
people to look at theirpatterns, to see them without
judgment, and to know that theybecame survival stories.
(32:40):
But those survival stories buildup so much toxicity in us and
keep us from our true self.
And then we have pain in ourbodies, pain in our lives, pain
in our minds.
Um, but yes, really dismantlingthe story and choosing a new
story now.
Right?
We, we can either rewrite orrepeat and the choice is always
(33:03):
ours.
Well, I think the biggest thingis so many people, including
myself, will be like, well, ifmy parents just did this or my
parents did that, and it's like,I can guarantee if you talk to
most people, they've had somechildhood trauma at some extent,
right?
Some really big traumas, somepatterns, right?
(33:24):
And so that's when these likegenerational kind of patterns
kind of kick in.
It's, it's trauma is you canhave two children that are
exposed to the same thing andone is, has the complex or PTSD
and the other 1D doesn't.
And it's, it's how theyinterpret it, the trauma that
happened.
And so not discounting trauma.
(33:46):
I've, I've dealt with complexPTSD and moved through it'cause
I've been through a lot.
Um, but my narrative, I waschoosing to suffer.
Suffering was a choice for me.
And if I stopped suffering andsaid, okay, what if I wanna stop
this?
Okay, enough with a bitchingenough with a complaint.
(34:08):
Mm-hmm.
Like, what can I do?
Where can I go?
And if somebody is like, wantingto get a journal now listening
to this, what are a coupleprompts you would give them to
start?
Because I know when I startedjournaling, I was like, what?
It's blank.
What do I do?
Yeah.
Where do I go?
So, oh, that's a great question,Mary.
(34:31):
Um, and there's different typesof journaling, right?
We can have gratitudejournaling.
That's beautiful.
That's, this is more of likemaybe the journaling to help us
to better dismantle or, or healsomething deeply, right?
So the first question I usuallywould ask is, what am I feeling?
(34:53):
Unapologetically it could behate.
And let me tell you, women, um,I know in cancer unforgiveness,
resentment, hate.
And it's not because we're badpeople, it's because we are so
good that we bury everythingthat wasn't so good.
'cause we got good at that.
We got good at being good on theoutside and stuffing it all on
(35:16):
the inside.
So I think one of the firstprompt questions is just what am
I, what do I really feel rightnow?
Am I angry?
Am I resentful?
Am I sad?
What?
What is that feeling?
And so connecting first with afeeling.
Well, we never have a feelingwithout a thought.
So let's say anger is a feeling.
(35:38):
I'm feeling so angry right now.
So then we ask the nextquestion, I wonder why I am so
angry.
And then when we ask, I wonderwhy I am so angry.
We we're going a little deeperto come to the thoughts and the
programs and the patterns thatare driving that anger.
(35:59):
And so then we might recognize,wow, I'm really angry because
I'm not being heard or I'mreally angry because there's no
time for me.
And so if we understand why I amangry, we think it's maybe about
we we, oh, it's'cause my kidswere being loud or my husband
(36:20):
wasn't listening, or my mom,whatever.
But when we really get to it,we're like, why am I really
angry?
Well, it's because you know,there's no time for me and if
there's no time for me, then wego to another question and we
say, I wonder where that patterncame from.
(36:40):
Where there's no time for me.
And that might lead us to, oh myGod, I had to be the
overachiever and in your case,so that I could be seen, so that
I could be acknowledged and sowe start to ask questions, but
we, we go in, I feel the firstis usually, how am I feeling?
Because women are also not verygood.
(37:04):
We, we feel, but we don't oftenfeel our true feelings.
Well, we were told like, likewomen are crazy.
Like, oh, she's probablymenstruating, or she's
menopausal, or she's pregnant.
And so then you're just like,well, I don't wanna be labeled
as that, so I'm just gonna not,or a nag.
Oh, nagging.
I'm like, or too sensitive.
(37:25):
Oh, she's so sensitive.
Oh, she's so sensitive.
She must be on her period.
Right.
You're like, these aresubconscious things we absorb
and you know, and like exactlyit, and it's different in every
culture, but it's, it's it sametheme.
Absolutely.
(37:46):
And, and I would reallyencourage people not to stop at
the emotion, you know, thatwhole TEA.
Mm-hmm.
So it's like, and so what am Ithinking?
What am I feeling?
And how does that make me act ornot act like?
And those are how we reallychange our whole narrative over
time.
Over time.
(38:06):
Oh my goodness.
Over time.
But what am I feeling?
I wonder why I feel this way.
What is, what are all thereasons that make me feel this
anger?
I don't get enough help.
There's no time for me.
Well, wait a minute.
There's the program.
We should not ask for help.
We're capable, we can do it all.
(38:28):
Superwoman.
Right, right.
Absolutely.
Because, you know, especiallythe, you know, the woman of the
new millennium, we can doeverything.
It's crushing us.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And so if we don't pause, and Ithink our challenges push us to
pause and the pause allows us toheal more deeply.
(38:51):
So, um, yeah.
Such a, it's, it's so profound,even when we both just sit and
talk about it, just how deeplyhealing this is.
If people would only realizethat while, yes, you can go to
the doctor, yes, you go to yourtherapy t yes, you do the
(39:11):
physical and you honor thisbody, but you don't stop there.
It's all connected.
And, and that's, you know, Ithink it's important like when
you're journaling and beinglike, okay, like what?
Yeah, what is this emotion?
What am I feeling?
Why am I feeling so angry?
And I find that type aperfectionist, like myself and,
(39:36):
you know, and people pleaser.
I don't wanna be a burden onanybody else because I have
learned in the past that measking for help around certain
people that I am a drag, butaround people who do this work.
Mm-hmm.
They honor it and they say,thank you for telling me.
Yeah.
(39:56):
I mean, maybe they don't say itlike that, but they're just
like, oh, cool.
All right, well, you're tired.
Or like, maybe you wannareschedule or, or, thank you for
telling me that you were upsetabout that.
I didn't mean it that way.
It's like, oh, I'm not gonna getyelled at.
Nobody's gonna get angry at me.
Mm-hmm.
(40:16):
And it's, it was hard'cause Iwas surrounded by a lot of
people that were like that.
And part of this growth isgrieving, the outgrowing of
those behaviors and those typesof people that have the ability
to make the change, butunwilling.
And I think that if we can startunderstanding and asking for
(40:40):
help, I mean, say, you know,sometimes we don't have a
supportive partner, but say youdo okay.
Say you have supportive friendsor you have one friend, all you
need is one person in your life.
Like just one.
And in that, how can, like howcan that per, how can you ask
(41:00):
that person for help, even ifit's just tiny, right?
So say if it's your partner,like I do have a lot of patients
who do have supportive partnersand they're like, I'm like, are
you asking them for help?
And they say, I don't want to, Idon't wanna be a burden.
I go, Ugh.
Healing's there.
Mm-hmm.
We don't heal in isolation.
(41:21):
Mm-hmm.
We heal in community and, andthat's my biggest next phase of
this growth is allowing myselfto be seen, allowing myself to
be myself.
And it's a little uncomfortable.
Mm-hmm.
And, but I know that's where themagic is.
And, and I used to just beisolated.
(41:42):
And this hyper independence isjust another form of unprocessed
in our work and, and how muchare we doing and doing and doing
and forgetting to be, how muchare we doing so that something
is being meant for us.
It's maybe, it's a sense of selfworth.
(42:02):
Like the more I do, the moreI'll be loved.
The more I'll be seen, the moreI'll be heard.
If I do more, if I do more and.
Um, if I'm working with, youknow, people that have an, an
illness of sorts, whether againit's cancer or any sort of pain,
I will al we will always diveinto how is, how is that meeting
(42:26):
a need?
And they'll be like, well, Idon't want cancer.
And I was like, no.
I know I didn't either, but whenI really, I never asked for it
consciously, but I didn'trealize that I co-created it
unconsciously.
And they'll be like, what do youmean?
I said, I co-created itunconsciously because what I
really needed was peace in mylife.
(42:48):
What I really wanted was to gethelp, but I didn't know how to
ask.
What I really wanted was rest,but I was a busy mom with two
children and a, and a businessand a husband that had needs
and, and family and siblings,and I needed rest.
I needed help.
(43:08):
I, I needed, um.
To be loved attended to becauseI was the nurturer.
So of course it was a breastcancer.
I was like over nurturingeverybody around me and
completely neglecting myself.
Every pain in our body and Iwill literally put myself out on
a limb with this.
(43:30):
Every pain in our body is a painsomewhere else in our life.
First in our heart, in ouremotions, somewhere in our life.
It's a pain unprocessed that thebody is finally bringing up to
the surface because it knowswe're ready.
And it's not here to take usdown.
It's here to lift us up.
(43:51):
It's really truly here to helpus to heal at such deep levels
and, and to touch our greatnessand our magnificence.
And it, and you know, I thinkwe, we can speak of this Mary,
because we both lived it.
It was scary and scary time ofmy life.
(44:11):
Not knowing if you're gonna liveor die.
You know, I don't How old wereyou when you had breast cancer?
42.
Yeah.
I mean, I was 33 or young.
Young, and nobody around me hadhad cancer that I knew that it
was under 70 or 65.
And not saying that thosecancers are, you know, when you
(44:32):
get older, right?
Like you're exposed to morethings and more things happen.
It's still horrible when you getcancer, but when you're 33, you
know, like there's a bunch ofthings.
I'm still working, I'm running abusiness, I'm in a marriage that
it's just not working and myfamily doesn't understand me
(44:52):
anymore.
What I knew before isn'tresonating.
I didn't know where to go.
I didn't know what to do.
I just isolated and kind of feltsorry for myself for a bit.
And then over time just madelike little strides.
But I mean, I'll never forgetthe moment when, um, it was
(45:14):
like, so I found the lump abovemy right collarbone.
It was like a golf ball sizedtumor.
I had Hodgkin's lymphoma and um,I'll never forget because I got
my scans missed, the originalcancer, which is insane.
I don't know how that evenhappened, but, so I had to have
them re-look at the, the scansand they were like, oh my God.
(45:38):
Oh my God, we gotta get tested.
Like we gotta get this out.
And I was like, oh, I had to goto a second doctor to get this
checked out.
And I remember she goes, shestarted freaking out, not
freaking out, but like, she'skind of a chill doctor.
And when you see her kind ofmoving fast, you're like, Ooh,
ooh, ooh.
Ah, I like this.
Tell me I'm over exaggerating.
This feels kind ofuncomfortable.
(45:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And mm-hmm.
She's like, let's do full chestCT full, like pretty much
everything except for legs,right?
Because lymphoma doesn'tnecessarily show up in your feet
or thighs or anything.
But anyways, and um, I rememberthinking, I was in the Whole
Foods parking lot in Cedar Parkand I go, holy shit, am I dying?
(46:23):
Oh my God.
It's not finding out for me, itwasn't finding out that I had
cancer.
It was am I dying?
I have so much more to do that Ihaven't done.
And then the day I got chemo, I,I swore to myself, I'm gonna
make some changes, but right nowI gotta sit in this and deal
(46:45):
with it.
Yeah.
It's so, at so many levels.
Um, it's so much to go throughand, and if doesn't, it doesn't
have to be cancer.
It could be any, anything.
Anything that pushes us topause.
(47:06):
Um, but I know I'm so grateful.
I'm grateful that I'm here.
I'm grateful for the courage andI'm so grateful that you're, you
tapped into your courage andyour will.
And the beauty of this is everyone of us has this.
Even when we feel like there'sno way out we have it.
(47:28):
I it, we have it in us in ourdarkest moments, that light can
come in.
Absolutely.
That's, that's where thebeauty's at.
I've never felt like now whensomething big comes up that
would've like, you know, I'vehad to deal, like I was
explaining to you, I we'rehaving to kind of last minute
move offices and that would'vebeen, it was stressful, but like
(47:52):
the next day after I found outwe were gonna have to move, I
found a beautiful spot, awonderful landlord, like all
this stuff.
And I was like, ah, I don't havecontrol.
I do not have control over thissituation, but what I do have
control over are my thoughts andmy thoughts will say.
Everything that has seemed badin the moment has been a gift
(48:13):
later on.
And so it's come to play everysingle time.
So why don't I trust this takessome time, I think, to see it,
you know?
Um, but why don't I trust thatthere's a greater plan that I
don't see?
And I loved, I saw this image onInstagram and I thought it was
funny.
It was like when the universehas other plans for you, and
(48:34):
it's like somebody's shooting anarrow and it's like they're
shooting it towards a target,but it completely misses the
target.
But what you don't see is thatit goes to the next screen and
it hits another target.
And I loved that.
That's so cool.
Yeah, because I feel like theway that I would describe this
(48:54):
process would almost be likeyou, you take a leap'cause
you're forced to and you're inthe air and you haven't hit
landing, but you're just in theair.
And it's so unsettling andyou're just like, okay.
And then you start getting somegrounding, then things start
(49:15):
kind of normalizing and thingslike that.
But I would hope, and you know,like I don't want people to have
to get to this point to, to makethe change.
And so I'm hoping like by ustalking and just getting people
to start to notice, uh, maybeit's more unhappiness than it is
(49:36):
illness or pain or cancer.
And I just, I don't want it toget to the point where I don't
want anyone to have to gothrough the treatment that I
went through and lose their hairand eyelashes and, you know, and
have people feel sorry for you.
(49:56):
I don't want anyone to have togo through that, but
unfortunately, pain is one ofthe biggest motivators of
change.
Yeah, it is.
And it's, it's maybe the pain isthe unhappiness.
Maybe it's the hamster wheel,maybe it's the golden handcuffs.
(50:17):
'cause you're worried you'llnever make the kind of money
that you're making, but you aremiserable at this job.
Mm-hmm.
You know, it's, um, you know,this, this topic that you, you
chose to talk about today.
Um, while it sounds like, oh,you know, what is this about not
feeling happy?
(50:37):
It, it, it's such a deep, deep,actual, deep topic because we
know that, that this unhappinessleads to a, a very limited life.
Uh, not only are we unhappy, butwe may be unhealthy as a result
of the unhappy.
(50:59):
Um, but we also live verylimited.
We don't actually tap into.
What we're really capable ofexperiencing in this life if we
don't allow ourselves to healthe parts of us that are staying
stuck in the unhappy.
And I feel like, I don't knowthat there's unanswer Mary, but
(51:21):
I I'm curious what you wouldsay.
I feel like the greatestunhappiness comes because we're
really not living our story.
Oh yeah.
And like what does that mean?
Right.
We're not living our story.
I mean, are we living the storythat our parents wanted us of
us, or that society wants of us?
(51:41):
Or are we living a story so thatwe will be seen as worthy?
Are we living what, what story?
And if we can heal that story,we will find on the other side
of it our happy story.
And it's not far away.
That's the amazing.
(52:02):
It's not, it's not.
It's here.
It's not, it's, it's really not.
I would say like, you know, wedon't use our imagination as
adults like we did as childrenand dream big.
Like we dream in abundance.
What does abundance look like?
Sure.
Financial abundance.
Great.
Like, that's, that's a cherry ontop.
(52:23):
But what about abundance oflove, kindness, friendship,
relationships, health.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
We only think of one form ofcurrency, and that's financial.
But, you know, um, there, whatdoes that look like?
And even if you don't think itcould actually happen, just
dream it.
Think it, absolutely.
(52:44):
What would that person do?
What, how would she think, howwould she act?
How would she dress?
Absolutely.
I'm in this phase of like, so ifwe think about it, right?
Think about all the programming.
That has happened to us, likefrom such a young age.
I remember seeing these littleskinny white Barbie dolls,
right?
And they, they weren'trepresentative of any other
(53:04):
culture or body type.
It was blonde, it was Malibu,Barbie, and Ken.
And that's the first thing Iremember about being a woman.
It was like, oh, I gotta have abody like this.
Okay?
Mm-hmm.
Ooh.
Women have to diet.
Women have to diet.
They have to be skinny to beattractive.
Nobody's gonna love you ifyou're fat.
Oh, okay.
Now you're, now you're tooskinny.
(53:26):
All right?
Um, you're too dominating.
You're not dominating enough.
We sit in chairs that weren'tmade for us.
The stairs that we use werebuilt for men.
The society that we live in andthe culture that we live in
keeps sending us messages thatwe're not.
(53:50):
Enough.
Literally not enough.
I mean, the Victoria's Secretdocumentary made me so angry,
realizing it was one man behindthe Victoria's Secret movement
and profited billions of dollarsor whatever, millions or
whatever on inadequacies ofwomen and their bodies.
And come on, nobody's body lookslike that.
(54:11):
I mean, even those women in thedocumentary, they were going
home crying like in the bathtub.
'cause they were just starving.
Oh, we were literally starvingourselves to be loved.
And so, and then we have to dyeour hair a certain color.
Like, don't be gray, we don'twanna be gray.
And hey, that's fine if youwanna dye, like I'm all about
(54:32):
it.
But do it for, don't you do itfor you.
Right.
Do it for you.
Not because of I need to look acertain way.
I stopped dye my hair.
I was dying at blonde'cause AndI go, where?
Why did I start dying my hairblonde?
And I remember, oh my God.
It was because I remember when Iwas 14, blondes are hotter.
Literally I've been dying.
My hair blondes off all the fun.
(54:53):
Yeah.
And you're like, well, I'm gonnahave to change that story.
It's these little, littlethings.
It's it, they get stuck.
They get stuck as mistruths andclothing.
I mean, everybody looks the samein the same clothes.
Lululemons, Hey, I haveLululemon stuff.
I'm not crapping on that.
I'm just like, what would itlook like if we had our own
(55:16):
style?
Right.
And we didn't have to keep upwith the trends Or the Jones is
that's, that's where the, that'swhere the fun is.
Yeah.
Going against the grain.
It's really, it's um, I thinkwhen we come into our own power,
our own sense of self, um, andit's a journey.
You, and we know this, it's ajourney.
(55:38):
And so, you know, no matterwhere anyone is in this moment,
all we have to do is take onebaby step forward.
I mean, just one.
And if that means sayingsomething that we haven't said
to somebody, if it means askingfor help, if it means looking at
our emotions with love, youknow, rather than judging it
(56:00):
just, or there's just one thingwe can do today, just one thing
that would benefit ourrelationship with ourself.
It is so worth it.
Oh, a thousand person.
Just see how you feel after it.
Just notice like, do you feellight?
Do you feel happy?
(56:21):
Do you feel like, ah, right.
Those are the, that we want.
I know, uh, women, we just wannabe held so much, but resist it
because that's what we're toldto do.
Yeah.
But in summary, you know what Iwould say, what we've been
(56:43):
talking about is start lookingat the mind, your body, and your
soul.
What things in your life do youfeel you're not being true to?
Like, what, where do you feelyou're just doing things to do
them?
What are the things that drainyou?
Right?
What are the things that exciteyou?
(57:03):
Mm-hmm.
And allow yourself to daydream.
'cause that's when you can startdoing that.
Then you start thinking about itmore.
Then it starts becoming morereality.
Yeah.
And how all of these things canaffect your physical health.
And then, you know, like youwere saying, we're not saying.
(57:25):
Don't look at the physical.
Yes, you have to look at thephysical.
Like if you have back pain, goget treatment, come to pt.
But where in your with low backpain often is where you're not
supported in your life and howcan you add more stability
there.
Yeah.
And so how can people reach you,um, or you know, your Instagram
(57:47):
and your website if, if youcould let people know so they
can learn more about you and anyservices that you would like to
explain to them that you, would,you offer.
Um, yeah.
Well, um, thank you Mary.
If I would say if anyone isstuck in patterns and they are
struggling to get the to theroot of what's keeping them
(58:08):
there and how it's impactingtheir body, uh, their
relationships, their moneystory, basically ready to get
unstuck.
Um, just go to my website.
It's my name Shanel.
At Shanel r.com.
That's a mouthful.
Um, but there's not too manyShanel r Millis around there.
(58:30):
Um, we'll put it in the, we'llput it in, we'll put it in the
description.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you can get there.
Um, from there you can email me.
Um, and that's also on thewebsite, and I'm happy to hop on
the, on a call if, if anyonejust wants to understand a
little bit more about whatthey're capable of achieving.
(58:51):
Um, all things are possible.
We live in a, we live in a very,very powerful time of in
existence right now, and we areall being pushed to awaken to
that power that lies within us.
And so, um, yeah, you can reachme.
I do private work, I doworkshops.
I have free material.
(59:12):
Um, also for people who may justwanna explore free stuff.
There's a free ebook on mywebsite.
There's.
Um, a Create Your RealityAcademy.
I can also send you that link,Mary, and there's some free
guided meditations andmasterclasses on consciousness
and healing and, and things likethat.
So thank you so much.
(59:34):
Yeah.
It's so great talking with youand I really hope you all get a
lot out of this because twocancer survivors and physical
therapists that were pushed toawaken because of physical pain
and illness.
I mean, when I heard your storyI was like, oh my gosh.
(59:54):
Oh my gosh.
This cycle.
Oh, it's, yeah.
And then here we are.
I mean, just wanting to helppeople to really heal at very,
very deep levels.
Um, wanting to know that thingsare possible even when they seem
impossible and really just goinginspiring.
Hope to, yeah.
To keep going, to keep goingbecause this gives you one ounce
(01:00:15):
of hope.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
You've been listening to TMItalk with your host, Dr.
Mary Grinberg.
Make sure to subscribe whereveryou get your podcasts.
To learn more about Dr.
Mary, head on over to dr marygrinberg.com and make sure to
follow Dr.
Mary at Dr.
(01:00:35):
Mary PT on all social channels.
To learn more about Dr.
Mary's integrative practice forpain relief in Austin, Texas,
head on over to resilientrx.com.
Thanks for listening.
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