March 31, 2025 • 43 mins
Have you ever left a doctor’s office feeling like something was… off?
Or maybe you were told “we’re going to fix you” without anyone asking what you thought or how you felt. If so, this episode is for you.
In this deeply honest and approachable conversation, Dr. Mary sits down with holistic chiropractor Dr. Jocelyne Vo to talk about something that’s not discussed nearly enough: how to find a practitioner who truly creates a safe space for healing-and how to tell when you’re being bamboozled by marketing, ego, or rushed care.
Both Dr. Mary and Dr. Jocelyne share their insights as trauma-informed, hands-on practitioners who prioritize real connection, personalized care, and a collaborative approach to healing. They discuss what a safe space really means in healthcare, how trauma (even the unspoken kind) shows up in the body, and why true healing can’t be rushed—or outsourced.
Together, they cover:
-Why the energy of a clinic matters (spoiler: your nervous system knows before your brain does)
-How to spot red flags like high-pressure sales pitches or “I’m going to fix you” language
-The importance of longer intake sessions and slower, more intentional care
-How trauma-informed providers can hold space without rehashing trauma
-Why consent is an ongoing conversation, not a one-time checkbox
-How chronic stress and pain often show up as symptoms—and what to do about it
-The delicate dance between self-responsibility and practitioner support
-Why “body awareness” is more powerful than a list of exercises you'll forget to do
This episode is packed with practical, science-backed, heart-centered guidance for anyone looking to build a healthcare team that truly supports them. Whether you’re just starting your healing journey or you’ve seen all the specialists and are still looking for answers, this episode will help you trust yourself, listen to your body, and know what to look for in a provider.
Because healing isn’t about handing over your power. It’s about reclaiming it—with the right people by your side.
0:00 Introduction and Episode Overview
01:25 Meet Dr. Jocelyn Vo
02:51 Starting the Conversation: Safe Spaces in Healthcare
04:00 Understanding Trauma-Informed Care
06:49 The Importance of Initial Assessments
08:42 Patient Participation and Body Awareness
11:29 Chronic Pain and Holistic Approaches
20:16 The Role of Psychology in Physical Health
22:26 Building Trust with Patients
22:59 Challenges with Quick Fixes
23:51 The Importance of Listening to Your Body
27:48 Creating a Comfortable Environment
30:34 Understanding Consent in Healthcare
32:31 Trauma-Informed Care
37:16 Finding the Right Practitioner
42:57 Conclusion and Contact Information
You can learn more about Dr. Vo below:
https://www.chiropractic-healingtouch.com/
IG: @chirohealingtouch
If you are a health or movement professional and want to stay in touch with future episodes, webinars, courses, events and more. Subscribe to my email list here
I’ll see you in a week!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back everyone in thisepisode, I wanted to help you
all find Some ways to reallyknow if a healthcare
practitioner is the right fitfor you, or whether or not
you're really being bamboozledfor money.
This is a common issue in ourhealthcare world, is the
(00:21):
consumer and people on the otherside, so the patients are
unaware of really where to turn.
And it can be incredibly hard toknow how to find the right
healthcare team.
I've been on the other side ofthis.
And so in this episode, Ibrought in Dr.
Jocelyne Vo to dive into thisworld and really what it means
(00:43):
to create a safe space forhealing.
And we tackle a bunch ofquestions like what makes a
healthcare environment warm andwelcoming, noticing how your
body reacts in certainenvironments or how.
you feel around certain people?
Do you feel calm?
Do you feel tense?
Is the practitioner talking atyou?
(01:06):
Are they talking with you?
What type of marketing terms arethey using?
Is it like, I'm going to fix youor, or working together and more
collaborative?
These are just some basic thingsthat we tap into in this
episode.
to really give you some tactileinformation on how to find the
right practitioner.
And I want to give you a littlebackground on Dr.
(01:27):
Jocelyn Vo.
She's a holistic chiropractor inAustin who takes a personalized,
empathetic approach to care.
She listens deeply to herpatients and tailors each
session into their own uniqueneeds.
Using a gentle blend ofadjustments, hands on
techniques, acupressure points,muscle work, and an intuitive,
(01:49):
energetic approach, Dr.
Vo helps restore balance andalignment.
Her philosophy focuses onlonger, thoughtful sessions that
provide better care, creating acalm, nurturing space where
healing happens naturally.
So, I really hope you enjoy thisepisode.
She was the perfect person forme to reach out to because she
(02:11):
really values creating a healingenvironment and is very aligned
with our current practice inAustin, Texas.
So, without further ado, we'lljump right in.
Ready to tackle the topics thatyou've been curious about but
never felt comfortable asking?
With a straightforward, nononsense perspective on life,
blended with candid stories anda healthy dose of humor, Dr.
(02:34):
Mary Grimberg cuts through thefluff and addresses the
conversations we all need tohave on TMI Talk, where no
subject is too taboo.
Our bodies, our minds, andeverything in between.
Now here's your host, Dr.
Mary.
Hello everyone and welcome backto TMI Talk with Dr.
(02:54):
Mary.
Today we're going to be talkingabout how to find a safe space
for healing when you're lookingfor the right health care
practitioners.
And today I brought on Dr.
Jocelyn Vo.
so much for being here.
Thank you for having me.
I'm just having a good time herewith Dr.
Mary and Maya.
So Maya stop looking at thetable.
(03:16):
So Maya is, is, she always likesto be in these episodes.
So she just pops up on thetable.
So if you're watching the video,you'll see her.
She's a little Yorkie poo andshe's acting crazy.
She's adorable.
She's so cute.
Well, one of the reasons you andI connected was because And I
(03:37):
was looking for otherpractitioners who even just on
their website are talking aboutholding a safe space, trauma
informed care.
And that's something that'ssuper important.
And it's something I didn'trealize over the years until
more the last few years of howholding space for somebody can
(03:57):
really help with like optimalhealing.
So what does a safe space meanfor you?
So holding a safe space.
Um, that's funny how Instagramand website can tell a lot about
what you can expect when you goto a provider, right?
Um, when I wrote that on mywebsite and what I'm trying to
(04:21):
get people to understand ishealth and wellness is a
process.
It's a journey.
It's going to take time forsomeone to actually recover from
the trauma or the experiencesthat they had.
So I just wanted to make surethat the space I had, um, was
welcoming, warm, um, that theyhad enough time to actually
(04:47):
build a relationship with me,um, because unfortunately I feel
like it's missing, um, right nowin some of the medical offices
that they've been through beforewhere they feel more like a
number rather than a patient.
So for me, it's taking the time,making sure that they feel
welcomed.
Welcome and cozy before beingable to open up and share the
(05:10):
day history.
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it'ssomething that we have to talk
about, right?
Because healthcare is still,it's still a business.
Basically, you know, it's hardin healthcare, right?
When you're a consumer and thisis something, you know, I'm a
human too.
So I need, I have my healthcareneeds as well.
(05:30):
So how much of it is people arejust very used to, Hey, this is
what you need.
Buy this now schedule a millionsessions and you'll be better.
Like I have the answer.
Right.
And Hey, that sells from anintegrity standpoint.
It's like.
I want someone to feel safe andto know that, hey, I have your
(05:53):
best interest, but it's hard forpeople to know based on like
what you were saying is going todifferent offices, giving like
astronomical quotes, you know, Imean, it's the same thing.
Like when I go to like the cardealership, like one dealerships
going to tell me, Hey, I needthis, this and this.
And then another one might tellme something completely
(06:13):
different.
I don't know the differencebecause I'm not a car mechanic.
Yeah.
So.
So what are some things thatpeople can look for and you
know, we can both kind of talkabout this too, because some of
it's even subconscious and likein a space that, that can, that
somebody can kind of feel, oh,they, they maybe notice these
types of things or these askingthese types of questions and.
(06:38):
And, and knowing, hey, okay,maybe I can start leaning in and
maybe trusting this person alittle bit more to know, hey,
what they're saying mightactually be helping me.
Sure.
For me, one of the big, uh,green flags that you could have
when you're looking for aprovider, if, if they have an
option of offering an initialassessment, because I feel like
(07:02):
we need to be a good fit, but ithas to be both ways.
Right.
I have to be a good fit for you.
And I just want to make surethat you're getting the most out
of a session sessions as welltoo.
So for me, having an initialassessment or even a first visit
that you can just try out thepractitioners for me is a really
(07:22):
good option instead of divingright into a treatment plan that
it's going to ask you to commit.
So, um, that's one of the thingsthat I would look at, uh, if
you're looking for apractitioner.
So basically like first lookingat Hey, can I meet this person?
Can I work with this personfirst before I commit to maybe
(07:46):
Like a package or a plan of careor something along those lines
And then the other thing youwere saying is like are you guys
the right fit?
Right because you know, we weretalking earlier you were saying
like you're not Harry Potter.
So Yes, I, I just want to makesure that, um, when a patient
books with me, they understandthat I can help them as much as
possible, but, um, I, I'm notliving with you 24 seven.
(08:12):
You going to be the one that hasto do the work, uh, in order for
your body to heal and yournervous system to reset.
Um, uh, one good visual that oneof my teacher gave me back in
the day is.
Pretty much your body is a plantand sometimes there's a rock on
(08:33):
top of it.
I'm the gardener coming in andremoving that rock so you can
just flourish, but I'm not goingto be the one growing.
You are.
Yeah, so basically giving, youknow, that's one of the main
principles of like traumainformed care and, and that is
the patient or the client isincluded.
in their plan.
(08:54):
I think, you know, basicallywhat you're alluding to is
anybody that says Hey, I'm gonnafix you.
Yes.
I just think I I can't like Ican't we fix pain or we We fix
you or anything that impliesyou're broken anything that
implies that the power isoutside of you.
(09:14):
Mm hmm Those are some big Thoseare some big, like I saw
something the other day withlike a healthcare.
So I went to go to the store andI get some new face cream,
right?
And I get this face cream and Iread it and the, the lady's
like, Hey, you've got to trythis, this, this looks really
great.
And I'm like, do you work forthis company?
(09:36):
Like what, you know, she's like,no, I actually just tried it.
It works great.
And I go, I don't like that.
The information basically sayslike a hundred percent of people
did not have a reaction to this.
And guess what?
I returned it because I had amajor reaction and I was like,
any absolutes, like anyabsolutes are a big thing too.
(09:56):
Like, you know, that, that youcan't, like the human body,
like, I mean, anything likeallergies, air can have a side
effect.
So yeah.
That, I mean, that makes totalsense.
So basically like having theperson kind of participate in
their treatment plan as well.
(10:17):
Yes.
I'm not expecting a magicsolution right away because I
think we live in a society whereyou want immediate reward.
So fast.
So you think that just going by,by just going once to the
chiropractor, if it worked or itdidn't work, you have a definite
idea of why it is.
Yes.
But for me, you have.
(10:38):
There, there's so many way ofpracticing.
There's so many ways ofassessing the body that maybe it
didn't work for you this timewith this provider.
It might work with anotherprivate provider, but I will
never be the one saying I canfix it all, like I know it all.
Mm-hmm I think for, um, someonethat works with the human body,
(10:59):
the thing that would be mostdangerous for them is to say, I,
I know it all.
You know, I, I can fix youbecause.
I know better.
Um, I want to stay away fromthat kind of speech because
you're giving hope, but it couldbe false hope.
And then you are taking away thecontrol from them as well too.
(11:22):
Wellness.
comes from them, comes from themfinding the way of maintaining
that.
You can take away the pain maybeby adjusting a few things here
and there in the daily routines,but they have to be an active
actor.
Within the routine and thewellness a thousand percent in
(11:43):
order to get those sustainablechanges.
I know sometimes you were like,well, it's still not better You
know, I am doing these thingsand I'm like, are you slowing
down?
Are you are you slowing down andeating your food?
Are you running around?
With your head cut off, like allday, every day, because I'm, I,
I cannot change your nervoussystem.
(12:03):
I cannot help people if you'renot willing to kind of do it
too.
And that might mean that maybeyou're not in the space to do
that and that's okay.
But then at the same time, yourbody might get to this point
where it's like.
Yeah.
And so the whole goal is to,let's try not to get to that
(12:23):
point, but unfortunately a lotof times that's kind of the
point that it does come to.
And then that's when they'llcome, people will kind of come
in and.
Which is why it's so importantfor you to have a compassionate
approach as well too, becausepeople come to you, they're in
pain.
And if on top of that, you'reguilt tripping them saying, Hey.
(12:44):
You know, that's because you doso so and so I don't think it's
helping usually that doesn'thelp either, right?
Yeah, it's it's this it's abalance of like hey, let's
notice these things But alsolike I'm not gonna shame you
exactly exactly You never knowwhat they went through you never
(13:05):
know what happened in the lastMaybe you saw them for a year
regularly, and then somethinghappened where they couldn't
come for like two months andthen they show up.
I don't want to be the onesaying, Hey, what happened to
you?
Why didn't you come back?
And I heard a lot of that, whichis very unfortunate.
So I will always welcome someoneback because.
(13:26):
So, I mean, just scheduling withme and taking the time to do it
is half of the, the journey isalready there, right?
You already took the first stepof earning your power.
Yes.
Yeah.
And also I feel honored anytimesomebody does come to me for
help, right?
And they'll be like, I'm sosorry, I didn't do my home
(13:46):
exercises.
So a big thing in physicaltherapy is, Oh, I didn't do my
home exercises.
Right.
And Yeah.
It is common in the physicaltherapy realm to be like, well,
it's on you.
You didn't get better.
You didn't do your homeexercises.
I'm fine.
You didn't do it.
So it's almost like a, okay,we'll come back.
Like, I mean, there's also thispoint where it's like when you
have the time to commit, that'sone thing, but.
(14:09):
Um, I also try to work with thebehavioral psychology of it
because honestly, like keepingup with the same exercises every
day for the rest of your life,that's also not sustainable
either.
I mean, let's just be real.
So it's also, how do we workwith people instead of like, the
way I think of it is how do weteach them to be body aware so
(14:30):
they can know like, Hey.
Um, when my back pain hurts whenI'm standing, well, okay, well,
what can I do right in thatmoment?
Well, maybe shift your pelvis.
How does it feel when yourpelvis and your mid back are
kind of on top of each otherversus if you're, you know, if
your hips are shifted forward,right?
Just kind of noticing thepositions that you're in because
a lot of times people areunaware of how they're walking,
(14:53):
how they're moving, how they'resitting.
Right.
Um, body awareness, like yousaid, is crucial.
Um, but it takes a while,especially if you've been used
to being numb to how you feelwhere Pain becomes the new
normal.
I had a lot of people coming inand saying I have migraines But
it's been the case for like thelast 10 years.
(15:15):
Oh my god, I Very sensitive topain now because I worked to get
my bony awareness to where it'sat today so every time I feel
Just a little bit of pain.
I have my own recipe to make mefeel better because I've gone
through that.
But for the people that havebeen in pain for years where
(15:37):
it's almost normal to be inpain, it takes a while.
I always say to my patients thatthey like a beautiful onion and
you have to peel all the layers,but it takes time.
It takes time because you have alot of layers to uncover and
maybe you're coming in for backpain, but What's really
happening is like you said,maybe gut health is an issue and
(15:59):
in that case, I can help youwith the physical symptoms of
that, but I will refer it tosomeone else because I have no
issue saying this is not myfield of expertise.
Let's find you someone thatknows more about it so you can
just add that to your recipe ofwellness.
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, it's, it's tuning in andwhen you've dealt with chronic
(16:20):
pain for a long time, You know,sometimes I feel like there's a
balance between dissociatingfrom the pain and tuning in to,
right?
Cause if you focus so much onthe pain, then, then it almost
like kind of controlled you.
So I feel like there's like abalance between, Hey, I still
have to like, kind of pushthrough this a little bit to
like function, right?
Cause if every time I.
(16:41):
Had pain and I just stoppedeverything then I wouldn't
function but it's also like likewhat you're saying is like the
more in tune the more you canpractice even just kind of
Understanding like your body'ssignals.
And so I say like a back pain isa signal You know, gut symptoms
are a signal, right?
And so that takes time to divein and it's multifaceted.
(17:05):
And I think it's hard in oursociety because everything is so
fast paced, fast paced, but ourbodies are not.
That way.
No.
No, no.
Even sitting on a computer allday long, that's not what we're
supposed to do.
That's not what we are designedto do.
Right?
So, um.
But it's also a reality for alot of people.
(17:25):
It is.
Unfortunately, it is.
So we have to adapt, um, what wedo and find ways to avoid that
state of chronic pain.
Um, but realizing that we are inpain is a first step, right?
Totally.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And.
Now, it feels like people arelooking for a magic pill, um, to
just take that away.
(17:45):
But pain is like you said, it'san alarm system.
If your house is burning, soyour body is your house, right?
Your house is burning, but youjust take, turn that alarm off
by taking a pill.
Your house is still burning,right?
I actually use that exactexample.
It's like putting the headphoneson while the fire alarm's going
off.
Exactly.
You have to acknowledge thatthere's something going on
(18:07):
without feeling guilty about it,but just saying, okay.
I think this is what'shappening.
What kind of firefighter do Ineed?
Right and then reaching out tothe one that seems most
appropriate to what's happeningright now This is where we step
in and say, okay, I think thisis what you have Maybe you
should go to the acupuncturist.
(18:29):
Maybe you should go to physicaltherapy.
Maybe you should go to pilatesor yoga um, but I Would love for
people to find in us a voicethat they can trust Because we
have the best interest at heartand they don't feel like we're
trying to sell anything to them,right?
(18:51):
Yeah, totally.
It's like I mean, we'll behonest with people.
It's like hey, I think you know,this has been going on This is
chronic.
So Hey, it might be closer to 10to 14 visits or so, right?
Like, I can't guaranteeanything, but I want you to kind
of have a ballpark and maybeeven more or less.
Like, it just depends.
I still like to give people aballpark, but there are certain
(19:12):
things I'm like, Hey, this islike just a few sessions.
Let's work on this.
But then also how can you.
Maybe do you want to come inkind of for ongoing like manual
therapy or tune ups or whateverthat is?
It's like I feel like also theway you frame it, right?
Yes, because we have people thatcome in for wellness whether
it's Like, like for dry, eitherlike dry needling or like mobile
(19:34):
joint mobilization or going overexercises or, you know, ongoing
foundational movement andfitness will, we'll work on all
of those things, but it's alsothe way that you word it too.
Right.
Like I I'm so I'm probably likeover the top where I'm like,
Hey.
You are from the, from thisstandpoint, you're at, you know,
(19:54):
you've improved this much.
So to get to this next level,you know, these are, you know,
these are the things that wewill work on.
And then, you know.
As long as they're an activeparticipant versus, you know,
sometimes people do want to betold what to do, but at the same
time, I'm like, Hey, we have toget you to understand what your
body's telling you, which isbasically your intuition.
(20:16):
Um, I did an episode, it shouldbe episode four, um, on how
chronic illness can kind of bepotentially the start of an
awakening.
And I say that it's more of.
Hey, obviously we still treatthe physical symptoms, but like
what else in your life isdysregulated, right?
You know, what, what's yoursocial support system?
(20:36):
Where are your balance?
Like, are they, are, is thereongoing boundary issues?
Is there any unprocessed traumathat maybe we haven't looked at
too?
Right.
So looking at it from this wholestandpoint, but.
I also feel like there's peopledeal with a lot of shame and
like their health, right?
Because they know maybe what todo and then maybe they don't do
(20:57):
it.
And the way I look at that is,okay, well, what is the
psychology behind that?
You know, how can we work withthem versus like, you know, yes,
pointing a finger, um, I agreewith that.
Um, and maybe some of thosefactors, they don't even know
that it's actually contributingto what's happening because for
them, most of the time, theythink Cairo is just cracking.
(21:20):
So they come in for a quickrelief session.
But then you dive a littledeeper and say, Hey, Okay,
you're coming in with a lot oflike stomach pain lately.
Are you stressed out?
And then they link the two ontheir own, right?
Okay, and then we dive deeperinto the onion saying, okay
Stomach stress.
What's your stressor?
(21:41):
Is it this or this or this?
Let's try to either remove it ormaybe be aware of it and then
work from there.
So it's really a process.
It's about understanding whereit's coming from and it's
different for every patient.
So if I have five patients in aday coming in for low back pain,
it could be five differentreasons.
A thousand percent.
(22:02):
And it could take that session,like that patient three
sessions, it could take thatpatient five sessions, and maybe
in one session it'll be gone forone of them.
But I can't know until they comeback and they Feel the relief or
they feel like there's been animprovement or if there's not
been any relief, you have torethink about it instead of
(22:23):
saying, okay, this is becauseyou did this.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
Taking the blame or justreassessing how you approach
that session, I think is always.
And I think that's a good thingfor providers saying, okay,
maybe I should have done thisinstead of this.
Let's try it out this time.
But if the patient is comingback, it means that they trust
you too.
(22:44):
So you have to own that trustand you have to live up to it
saying, okay.
Maybe we should add that andswitch that and not being a
knows it all and I don't know Idid it all I did all I could do
and it's on them.
No, you know, yeah Well, I meansome part of it too though is if
(23:05):
somebody it's like how to workwith them right how to work with
their situation or maybe theircircumstances and then there are
some times where maybe peoplejust Certain people, maybe
they're not necessarily a goodfit because they're not in that
mindset, they're in the mindset.
I want a quick fix.
Yes.
And so that's, that's where it'shard for me is when I get
somebody that wants a quick fix.
(23:26):
I'm like, I can, I can do mybest.
But this has been going on, likeyou said, like for 10 years.
Mm-hmm Mm-hmm And so.
I may not be able to tell thatperson that, and they may not,
they might be like, Hey, I just,you know, I want to kind of get
a, maybe go to a chiropractorwhere they adjust and then they
leave and they go home.
And they, they're, you know, notlike there's anything wrong with
(23:47):
that either, but maybe that'swhat they need at that time.
But at the same time, Lastingrelief is going to be us tuning
in with our bodies,understanding our bodies, and
slowing down to listen.
Yes.
And that's hard when the world'snoisy.
It is.
And you never know what's comingyour way as well too, right?
(24:09):
I had a patient that was doingwell.
I saw her for three sessions,two weeks apart, and then I'm
like, you're doing great! Let'ssee you in five to six weeks,
and she was very confident.
She was like, yeah, I thinkthat's, it's a good frequency.
I can do that.
And then she came back saying, Ijust went on vacation for the
last two weeks.
I was so stressed out and I feellike this is what took me over
(24:32):
the top.
So having them realize that sowe can adjust for next time and
for next session for me is a bigwin.
Totally.
Yeah.
Getting them to kind of.
Put two and two together, too,because so much people are like,
oh, I didn't do anything and myback just hurt or my Pel my hip
just hurt.
(24:52):
It's like, okay.
Well, maybe you didn't doanything.
But what about did something anevent happen during that time?
where maybe You know, there wasa lot of stress.
I mean, we are literally in avery stressful time in the
world, right?
We were just talking about thisbefore.
So we also have to be realisticas well and being patient with
(25:13):
people because they're almostbeing forced to understand their
bodies really fast because ofthe stress.
Yes.
And I know personally in my ownhealth journey, I was very
resistant to it.
It like took cancer for me to belike, okay, well now you got to
learn.
Right.
The Colby.
So like people don't get to thatpoint, but I do feel like as.
(25:33):
As a society, we're getting tothis pinnacle of like just
constant stress, constantanxiety.
People are more onantidepressants and in more pain
than ever.
And we have to look at it fromthis other point of view.
Cause I mean, the other point istoo, is like, you can get all
the adjustments in the world.
You can do all the breath work,you can eat as healthy as you
(25:53):
want, but if, if you don't havea community, if, if, if there's,
it's all work and no play, if wedon't have any joy in our life.
Those, those other things don'tmatter either, you know, like, I
think so much of wellness is somuch focusing on that and not,
hey, how do we build acommunity, you know, I mean.
(26:18):
How do we, how can we havepractitioners that we trust,
right?
Because there's so much feararound health care practitioners
now because of just the way thatthe market has been, I mean, and
all that.
Um, I do have a lot of patientsjust asking me questions even
(26:39):
though it's not Related tochiropractic in general, they
would just ask me questionsabout, I don't know, like
supplements or what kind ofpillows should I use?
Or what kind of activity shouldI be doing?
And I love that they feel safeenough to actually reach out
because even if as a chiro, I'mnot going to be selling you
(27:04):
pillows.
I can tell you what might workfor you.
So like you said, having that Pthat person that listens to you
and can guide you in the rightdirection is a big plus.
So I feel like this is where wewant to build a bridge where
people feel free to reach out tous and then the trust is built
(27:26):
and then we can just.
Keep on moving forward from theminstead of, you know, trying to
distance them and trying to sellthem a bunch of things that they
don't need.
I feel like when trust isearned, the relationship between
your patient and you as aprovider could last a long, a
lifetime.
(27:47):
Yeah.
I mean, uh, one thing to kind ofadd to with just kind of
building trust is I'd say likehaving people just notice, like
when you walk into like thehealthcare facility, like just
noticing, does your body feel,do you feel tense?
Do you feel your heart rateincrease?
Or do you feel light justnoticing that, right?
(28:10):
Like, I know when I walk intoyour office, it's like beautiful
colors, like you've taken timeto decorate it.
It doesn't feel like, like thisclinical office.
I mean, you've got a spinethat's made out of wood.
Yeah.
I thought was so cool.
Thank you.
I love that.
And then, you know, with, withour office, it's similar.
It's like, I want people to comein and feel like, ah, like
(28:32):
there's this aura of like,you're, you're in good hands.
Yes.
And it's intentional too,because it's like, just noticing
that, because I think sometimeswe don't notice it.
I agree with your office or myoffice.
I feel like when someone comesin, they can get a sense of how
(28:55):
you're working on who you are asa person before actually
allowing themselves to trust youas a provider.
So if they come in and they seemlike neons and very sterile.
And personal fluorescent light.
Yeah, it doesn't make them feelat ease.
So it's going to be harder foryou to try to have them to wind
(29:17):
down and trust you.
Well, then it's like if youthink about your nervous system,
right?
So you've got five senses.
And so I walked into a place theother day and it was like bright
fluorescent lights, bright pink,bright white floors, the music,
the sense.
It was just so much.
I could not.
(29:37):
I could not, I was like, I haveto like, just get into this
appointment and just leave.
Like I, I can't handle it, but Iknew what it was because I've
studied this stuff.
Cause these are subconsciousthings that your body's taking
in.
So now add on all of that andtalking about very, this wasn't
a healthcare facility, but likesay it was add on talking about
(29:58):
very intimate topics.
Like, you know, with pelvicpain, that's a big thing that I
treat.
Um, in, in.
And when we're talking aboutthose things, it's very intimate
details.
I mean, and you know, it'sletting people know like, Hey,
you know, one of the topics too,is consent as well.
And like if their nervous systemis already overstimulated by the
(30:21):
environment, how to kind of, andthen the questions are already
like intrusive or like, that's alot too.
So all of that kind of comesinto play.
And You know, one of the otherthings that I wanted to bring up
too, is like, kind of likeconsent, like, you know, cause
(30:42):
people do have consent over,they're like, Oh, well, you
know, it was just my doctor.
So I just let them do likewhatever it's like, no, you have
consent to tell somebody tostop, you know, and you can
always remove that consent orgive it that is.
That is yours, right?
Yes.
And so, what is, do you have anyadvice for somebody just based
(31:04):
on consent and what that meansto you?
The main thing that I want.
Our patients to, feel is theyare regaining control of, um,
the health and the decisions andwhat they want to achieve.
So it's always good for us tohave.
(31:24):
A starting point and then agoal, right?
So my intake forms on my firstvisits always longer because I
want to make sure that Iunderstand the full picture or
at least the full picture ofwhat they willing to give me at
that time.
And then as we go along, we candive deeper, but, um, having
that first session where theychoose actually how they want to
(31:48):
say things.
Without having me to be toointrusive, but at the same time
having enough for me to work onis really a fine line.
It's trying to get them to bevulnerable, but still holding
the control.
So, it's a, it's hard, it's,it's very difficult.
(32:11):
And then sometimes, you know,with our intuition as a
provider, if they come in with asymptom and you suspecting that
you don't want to be biased.
You want to make them understandand get to that point without
being biased, but still beingcompassionate and being, um,
understanding.
(32:31):
Well, I think it's so importantjust to assume, I mean,
everybody has dealt with someform of trauma.
Yes.
It's just.
How much of it is kind ofdictating their life and how
much control or how much of itis unprocessed and maybe they're
unaware of, right?
Cause I know that I was like,oh, I don't have trauma and I
had massive trauma.
(32:52):
I had all of the symptoms, theheightened nervous system, the
random autoimmune symptoms thatnobody could figure out.
Always kind of on edge whensomebody jumps behind me, oh my
God, you know, or justcatastrophizing all these kind
of different things.
And so.
Um, even if somebody says maybe,you know, if they have a history
(33:12):
of trauma, maybe on the intake,I don't ask for them to dive in.
I'm like, Hey, you know, I thinkit's important at least, you
know, in all aspects ofhealthcare, I would love it if
this was a case is like, Hey,you don't have to.
Tell me what you don't feelcomfortable telling me, but you
know, have you worked with atherapist with this?
(33:34):
Or is this something that's kindof showing up in other aspects
of your life, right?
A lot of the somatic trainingthat I took is is hey, you don't
even need to know what thetrauma is Just how the body is
responding to it.
Absolutely We can tell right?
Yeah, even if they didn't say sothe response from another
(33:57):
nervous system or just seeingthem in the office and having
the session you can tell thatthere's something that happened
but We don't have to know whathappened.
We just want you to acknowledgethat, yes, it played a role in
how you're feeling today andwe're going to try to help you.
(34:18):
Um, but yeah, you're right.
Most of the time we don't haveto know what it is.
Um, and most of the time youdon't even have to tell us.
We, we, we know because we sawall the other symptoms around
it.
Um, going back to creating asafe space where they feel
vulnerable, but willing to takethe next step to feel better?
(34:45):
Well, I think our clinics mightbe a little different where we
can actually, like we can sitwith the patient and see, I
think it's hard when people aregoing in and out, like every
five or 10 minutes to know, youknow, like most.
Healthcare practitioners are nottrauma informed, unfortunately.
Yes.
Right?
Yes.
And so, basically, that's whatwe're kind of alluding to this
(35:06):
whole time is like a traumainformed approach.
I didn't outwardly say it,right, you know, when we were
discussing earlier because somany people don't even know what
that term means.
They just assume, oh, well, I'mnot, you know, I didn't have
some big trauma, I'm not a warveteran or anything like that.
It's like, there's enough.
Traumas in this world thataren't the the ones that we
(35:26):
typically think of that can beaffecting us too But you know
signs of that can be so manythings like, you know like we
were just saying is likejumpiness or on edge and
constantly on edge or Ongoinganxiety ongoing depression.
It can be ongoing gut issues.
It can be ongoing pain.
I mean All of these differentthings, unable to make eye
(35:49):
contact with somebody, maybe,maybe if you can before, right?
And then maybe after the, um,experience happened, maybe the
lack of eye contact, how theyhold themselves.
So there's like these littlesubtle cues, but I unfortunately
don't think it's like a, um, awell recognized, um, skill set.
(36:09):
Or like, not, maybe not skillset, well recognized, but in our
practices, I mean, like, You'revery intuitive.
I didn't realize I was intuitiveuntil the last few years where
people kept telling me.
And I was like, are you sure youlike just bullshitting me?
You know?
And so I realized, Oh, okay.
I actually can.
(36:30):
Feel that too.
But I can also look and kind ofsee like how somebody is holding
themselves and how they'rereacting.
Yes.
It's because you take the time.
And once again, it's all part ofit, all part of the experience
that for me is really crucial asa provider.
If you don't take the time.
There's no way in 10 minutes I'mgoing to like, no, there's no
(36:53):
way, right?
So there's no way you can justcompact that whole patient's
life into 10 minutes sessionsbecause it takes me.
10 to 15 minutes to unwind thebody and get the nerve system to
where I want it to be before Ican actually adjust, you know?
Yeah.
So that's one of the other tipsthat I would give to, um,
(37:14):
whoever's looking for aprovider.
Try to look for longer sessions.
10 minutes as a Carol, I can doit.
But maybe if this is what you'relooking for, once again, it's
for me, I just don't feel likeI.
It could unpeel enough layersfor you to actually improve.
(37:38):
So, um, well, I think just kindof on the other end of that, if
they're like the initial intake,right, I think, cause you can
have followups that are shorter,but if like the initial intake
is like 10 minutes or something,that's really hard to do that.
So kind of.
I'd say it is to kind of clarifythat it's like those longer
initial sessions, would you say?
(37:59):
And then enough where thatpractitioner really understands
your health as well.
Yes.
Um, We'll start off for thoselonger and then sometimes we'll
go down to like, sometimespeople want 30 minutes or things
like that, but I can't do a 30minute eval.
Like I cannot do it.
If I do it, it's a disservice tothat person and I don't feel
good about it.
(38:20):
I need to sit and understandwhat's going on.
I need to know, Hey, what aresome other factors kind of
occurring with that as well?
But, um, so I'd say in summary,a lot of, you know, what we're
talking about is.
Holding a safe space, justknowing, you know, with looking
at practitioners, like howthey're, they're speaking to
(38:41):
you.
Are they including you in theconversation?
Is it more of a one way dynamic,like, Hey, I'm going to fix you
or Hey, is this a team dynamic?
I know it can be tempting towant to go to somebody that
wants to fix you air quotes, butthe reality is, is there's.
The human body is so incrediblymultifaceted and complex that
(39:02):
like, there's no fixing.
It's more of a ongoing evolvingprocess.
And so you can start evenunderstanding and how marketing
terms are used to and knowinglike, Hey, is this the right
practitioner or not?
So that might be a good firststep there.
Um, also noticing like theenvironment, maybe when you meet
the person, like how are youfeeling in your body?
(39:23):
Are you feeling tense?
Are you feeling calm?
Um, What's the environment like?
Do you feel overstimulated ornot?
Like, what are some of those,you know, things to kind of look
into?
And then overall, just knowinglike, hey, it's a, it's a
combined approach, you know,evidence based medicine is the
practitioner.
(39:44):
Experience the person in frontof you and research.
So research and your experiencemean nothing if the person
doesn't want to do it.
And that's where the consentcomes in, right?
So you have consent to say no oryes and, you know, all of those
things.
If the provider allows space forthat, which is what we try to
(40:06):
do, um, is making sure that weinclude the patients in our
sessions.
It's not, I'm doing things onyou.
It's asking questions, makingsure that they understand what
you're doing, because offeringyour back to a stranger feels
very vulnerable, right?
Oh my gosh, totally.
And especially if they're goingthrough it with some tools, or
like just So, I'm going to justadjust you without asking what's
(40:28):
happening.
For me, the first session isalways longer because you have
to let them know what you'redoing even though they have an
idea of what you're doing.
Um, it's always good to say,hey, what we're going to do is
you're going to take a deepbreath and then as you excel,
I'm going to adjust you.
You might hear a sound.
You have to guide them throughthat.
Explaining what's going tohappen.
(40:49):
Exactly.
So they're not just on edgewaiting for it to happen.
They know exactly what's goingto happen.
After it happens, like how wasit?
How do you feel?
Always offering the choice.
Um, I have a lot of patientsthat hate manual adjustment.
So I don't, I don't do that.
They hate the sound of cracking.
I don't do that.
(41:09):
Some of them prefer to use theactivator.
So that's what I do.
Some of them love being adjustedand love being crack and hearing
it.
So I just adapt my sessions towhatever they like, um, which I
think you have to, once again,find the fine line between what
they need and what they prefer.
(41:31):
If it's a lot, it's aligning.
It's that's great.
It's, yeah, it's a great sessionfor both of us.
Right.
I think, you know, when we're,when you're looking for
chiropractors or physicaltherapists or psychotherapists,
you know, you can start kind ofusing a lot of these tools to
kind of help guide you where itgets tougher is when you're like
truly deep in Western medicinewith surgery and all that stuff,
(41:55):
because it's like.
Like, gosh, I almost feel likeit's an either or thing, you
know, like the bedside manner.
It's like, I'm going to behonest, I'd rather have less
bedside manner and like a reallygood surgeon, you know?
And so when I think about thesethings, it's also more of like
these approaches.
It's from like a wellnessstandpoint, like the
(42:17):
practitioners that are not lifeand death, like ours are, are
not life or death, but more of,Hey, you know, there is a
balance when we start goingrealistically, when you dive
into the craziness of thehealthcare industry itself.
I mean, you still want someonethat's respectful, but at the
same time.
Maybe they're awkward in theirbedside manner, but they're a
really good like surgeon, youknow There's things that to
(42:40):
weigh pros and cons with thattoo.
Like I want my spine if I needspine surgery I mean, I want the
best.
Yes, like not somebody that canlike yeah Yeah, like I don't
want you by my bedside if Ican't walk after you know, like
so Just something to considerwith all of that.
And so, how can people find youif they'd like to work with you
(43:01):
or reach out?
Uh, you can find me atChiropractic Healing Touch in
North Austin, close to theDomain and the Arboretum.
I, uh, I am on Instagram.
And you can find me on mywebsite as well, too.
Cool.
Well, we'll link all that below.
Again, she's in Austin, Texaswith me as well.
And thank you so much forcoming.
Thank you for having me.
(43:22):
That was really fun.
It was.
It was.
You've been listening to TMITalk with your host, Dr.
Mary Grinberg.
Make sure to subscribe whereveryou get your podcasts.
To learn more about Dr.
Mary, head on over todrmarygrinberg.
com.
And make sure to follow Dr.
Mary at DrMaryPT on all socialchannels.
To learn more about Dr.
Mary's integrative practice forpain relief in Austin, Texas,
(43:43):
head on over to resilient rx.
com.
Thanks for listening!
Welcome back everyone in thisepisode, I wanted to help you
all find Some ways to reallyknow if a healthcare
practitioner is the right fitfor you, or whether or not
you're really being bamboozledfor money.
This is a common issue in ourhealthcare world, is the
(00:21):
consumer and people on the otherside, so the patients are
unaware of really where to turn.
And it can be incredibly hard toknow how to find the right
healthcare team.
I've been on the other side ofthis.
And so in this episode, Ibrought in Dr.
Jocelyne Vo to dive into thisworld and really what it means
(00:43):
to create a safe space forhealing.
And we tackle a bunch ofquestions like what makes a
healthcare environment warm andwelcoming, noticing how your
body reacts in certainenvironments or how.
you feel around certain people?
Do you feel calm?
Do you feel tense?
Is the practitioner talking atyou?
(01:06):
Are they talking with you?
What type of marketing terms arethey using?
Is it like, I'm going to fix youor, or working together and more
collaborative?
These are just some basic thingsthat we tap into in this
episode.
to really give you some tactileinformation on how to find the
right practitioner.
And I want to give you a littlebackground on Dr.
(01:27):
Jocelyn Vo.
She's a holistic chiropractor inAustin who takes a personalized,
empathetic approach to care.
She listens deeply to herpatients and tailors each
session into their own uniqueneeds.
Using a gentle blend ofadjustments, hands on
techniques, acupressure points,muscle work, and an intuitive,
(01:49):
energetic approach, Dr.
Vo helps restore balance andalignment.
Her philosophy focuses onlonger, thoughtful sessions that
provide better care, creating acalm, nurturing space where
healing happens naturally.
So, I really hope you enjoy thisepisode.
She was the perfect person forme to reach out to because she
(02:11):
really values creating a healingenvironment and is very aligned
with our current practice inAustin, Texas.
So, without further ado, we'lljump right in.
Ready to tackle the topics thatyou've been curious about but
never felt comfortable asking?
With a straightforward, nononsense perspective on life,
blended with candid stories anda healthy dose of humor, Dr.
(02:34):
Mary Grimberg cuts through thefluff and addresses the
conversations we all need tohave on TMI Talk, where no
subject is too taboo.
Our bodies, our minds, andeverything in between.
Now here's your host, Dr.
Mary.
Hello everyone and welcome backto TMI Talk with Dr.
(02:54):
Mary.
Today we're going to be talkingabout how to find a safe space
for healing when you're lookingfor the right health care
practitioners.
And today I brought on Dr.
Jocelyn Vo.
so much for being here.
Thank you for having me.
I'm just having a good time herewith Dr.
Mary and Maya.
So Maya stop looking at thetable.
(03:16):
So Maya is, is, she always likesto be in these episodes.
So she just pops up on thetable.
So if you're watching the video,you'll see her.
She's a little Yorkie poo andshe's acting crazy.
She's adorable.
She's so cute.
Well, one of the reasons you andI connected was because And I
(03:37):
was looking for otherpractitioners who even just on
their website are talking aboutholding a safe space, trauma
informed care.
And that's something that'ssuper important.
And it's something I didn'trealize over the years until
more the last few years of howholding space for somebody can
(03:57):
really help with like optimalhealing.
So what does a safe space meanfor you?
So holding a safe space.
Um, that's funny how Instagramand website can tell a lot about
what you can expect when you goto a provider, right?
Um, when I wrote that on mywebsite and what I'm trying to
(04:21):
get people to understand ishealth and wellness is a
process.
It's a journey.
It's going to take time forsomeone to actually recover from
the trauma or the experiencesthat they had.
So I just wanted to make surethat the space I had, um, was
welcoming, warm, um, that theyhad enough time to actually
(04:47):
build a relationship with me,um, because unfortunately I feel
like it's missing, um, right nowin some of the medical offices
that they've been through beforewhere they feel more like a
number rather than a patient.
So for me, it's taking the time,making sure that they feel
welcomed.
Welcome and cozy before beingable to open up and share the
(05:10):
day history.
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it'ssomething that we have to talk
about, right?
Because healthcare is still,it's still a business.
Basically, you know, it's hardin healthcare, right?
When you're a consumer and thisis something, you know, I'm a
human too.
So I need, I have my healthcareneeds as well.
(05:30):
So how much of it is people arejust very used to, Hey, this is
what you need.
Buy this now schedule a millionsessions and you'll be better.
Like I have the answer.
Right.
And Hey, that sells from anintegrity standpoint.
It's like.
I want someone to feel safe andto know that, hey, I have your
(05:53):
best interest, but it's hard forpeople to know based on like
what you were saying is going todifferent offices, giving like
astronomical quotes, you know, Imean, it's the same thing.
Like when I go to like the cardealership, like one dealerships
going to tell me, Hey, I needthis, this and this.
And then another one might tellme something completely
(06:13):
different.
I don't know the differencebecause I'm not a car mechanic.
Yeah.
So.
So what are some things thatpeople can look for and you
know, we can both kind of talkabout this too, because some of
it's even subconscious and likein a space that, that can, that
somebody can kind of feel, oh,they, they maybe notice these
types of things or these askingthese types of questions and.
(06:38):
And, and knowing, hey, okay,maybe I can start leaning in and
maybe trusting this person alittle bit more to know, hey,
what they're saying mightactually be helping me.
Sure.
For me, one of the big, uh,green flags that you could have
when you're looking for aprovider, if, if they have an
option of offering an initialassessment, because I feel like
(07:02):
we need to be a good fit, but ithas to be both ways.
Right.
I have to be a good fit for you.
And I just want to make surethat you're getting the most out
of a session sessions as welltoo.
So for me, having an initialassessment or even a first visit
that you can just try out thepractitioners for me is a really
(07:22):
good option instead of divingright into a treatment plan that
it's going to ask you to commit.
So, um, that's one of the thingsthat I would look at, uh, if
you're looking for apractitioner.
So basically like first lookingat Hey, can I meet this person?
Can I work with this personfirst before I commit to maybe
(07:46):
Like a package or a plan of careor something along those lines
And then the other thing youwere saying is like are you guys
the right fit?
Right because you know, we weretalking earlier you were saying
like you're not Harry Potter.
So Yes, I, I just want to makesure that, um, when a patient
books with me, they understandthat I can help them as much as
possible, but, um, I, I'm notliving with you 24 seven.
(08:12):
You going to be the one that hasto do the work, uh, in order for
your body to heal and yournervous system to reset.
Um, uh, one good visual that oneof my teacher gave me back in
the day is.
Pretty much your body is a plantand sometimes there's a rock on
(08:33):
top of it.
I'm the gardener coming in andremoving that rock so you can
just flourish, but I'm not goingto be the one growing.
You are.
Yeah, so basically giving, youknow, that's one of the main
principles of like traumainformed care and, and that is
the patient or the client isincluded.
in their plan.
(08:54):
I think, you know, basicallywhat you're alluding to is
anybody that says Hey, I'm gonnafix you.
Yes.
I just think I I can't like Ican't we fix pain or we We fix
you or anything that impliesyou're broken anything that
implies that the power isoutside of you.
(09:14):
Mm hmm Those are some big Thoseare some big, like I saw
something the other day withlike a healthcare.
So I went to go to the store andI get some new face cream,
right?
And I get this face cream and Iread it and the, the lady's
like, Hey, you've got to trythis, this, this looks really
great.
And I'm like, do you work forthis company?
(09:36):
Like what, you know, she's like,no, I actually just tried it.
It works great.
And I go, I don't like that.
The information basically sayslike a hundred percent of people
did not have a reaction to this.
And guess what?
I returned it because I had amajor reaction and I was like,
any absolutes, like anyabsolutes are a big thing too.
(09:56):
Like, you know, that, that youcan't, like the human body,
like, I mean, anything likeallergies, air can have a side
effect.
So yeah.
That, I mean, that makes totalsense.
So basically like having theperson kind of participate in
their treatment plan as well.
(10:17):
Yes.
I'm not expecting a magicsolution right away because I
think we live in a society whereyou want immediate reward.
So fast.
So you think that just going by,by just going once to the
chiropractor, if it worked or itdidn't work, you have a definite
idea of why it is.
Yes.
But for me, you have.
(10:38):
There, there's so many way ofpracticing.
There's so many ways ofassessing the body that maybe it
didn't work for you this timewith this provider.
It might work with anotherprivate provider, but I will
never be the one saying I canfix it all, like I know it all.
Mm-hmm I think for, um, someonethat works with the human body,
(10:59):
the thing that would be mostdangerous for them is to say, I,
I know it all.
You know, I, I can fix youbecause.
I know better.
Um, I want to stay away fromthat kind of speech because
you're giving hope, but it couldbe false hope.
And then you are taking away thecontrol from them as well too.
(11:22):
Wellness.
comes from them, comes from themfinding the way of maintaining
that.
You can take away the pain maybeby adjusting a few things here
and there in the daily routines,but they have to be an active
actor.
Within the routine and thewellness a thousand percent in
(11:43):
order to get those sustainablechanges.
I know sometimes you were like,well, it's still not better You
know, I am doing these thingsand I'm like, are you slowing
down?
Are you are you slowing down andeating your food?
Are you running around?
With your head cut off, like allday, every day, because I'm, I,
I cannot change your nervoussystem.
(12:03):
I cannot help people if you'renot willing to kind of do it
too.
And that might mean that maybeyou're not in the space to do
that and that's okay.
But then at the same time, yourbody might get to this point
where it's like.
Yeah.
And so the whole goal is to,let's try not to get to that
(12:23):
point, but unfortunately a lotof times that's kind of the
point that it does come to.
And then that's when they'llcome, people will kind of come
in and.
Which is why it's so importantfor you to have a compassionate
approach as well too, becausepeople come to you, they're in
pain.
And if on top of that, you'reguilt tripping them saying, Hey.
(12:44):
You know, that's because you doso so and so I don't think it's
helping usually that doesn'thelp either, right?
Yeah, it's it's this it's abalance of like hey, let's
notice these things But alsolike I'm not gonna shame you
exactly exactly You never knowwhat they went through you never
(13:05):
know what happened in the lastMaybe you saw them for a year
regularly, and then somethinghappened where they couldn't
come for like two months andthen they show up.
I don't want to be the onesaying, Hey, what happened to
you?
Why didn't you come back?
And I heard a lot of that, whichis very unfortunate.
So I will always welcome someoneback because.
(13:26):
So, I mean, just scheduling withme and taking the time to do it
is half of the, the journey isalready there, right?
You already took the first stepof earning your power.
Yes.
Yeah.
And also I feel honored anytimesomebody does come to me for
help, right?
And they'll be like, I'm sosorry, I didn't do my home
(13:46):
exercises.
So a big thing in physicaltherapy is, Oh, I didn't do my
home exercises.
Right.
And Yeah.
It is common in the physicaltherapy realm to be like, well,
it's on you.
You didn't get better.
You didn't do your homeexercises.
I'm fine.
You didn't do it.
So it's almost like a, okay,we'll come back.
Like, I mean, there's also thispoint where it's like when you
have the time to commit, that'sone thing, but.
(14:09):
Um, I also try to work with thebehavioral psychology of it
because honestly, like keepingup with the same exercises every
day for the rest of your life,that's also not sustainable
either.
I mean, let's just be real.
So it's also, how do we workwith people instead of like, the
way I think of it is how do weteach them to be body aware so
(14:30):
they can know like, Hey.
Um, when my back pain hurts whenI'm standing, well, okay, well,
what can I do right in thatmoment?
Well, maybe shift your pelvis.
How does it feel when yourpelvis and your mid back are
kind of on top of each otherversus if you're, you know, if
your hips are shifted forward,right?
Just kind of noticing thepositions that you're in because
a lot of times people areunaware of how they're walking,
(14:53):
how they're moving, how they'resitting.
Right.
Um, body awareness, like yousaid, is crucial.
Um, but it takes a while,especially if you've been used
to being numb to how you feelwhere Pain becomes the new
normal.
I had a lot of people coming inand saying I have migraines But
it's been the case for like thelast 10 years.
(15:15):
Oh my god, I Very sensitive topain now because I worked to get
my bony awareness to where it'sat today so every time I feel
Just a little bit of pain.
I have my own recipe to make mefeel better because I've gone
through that.
But for the people that havebeen in pain for years where
(15:37):
it's almost normal to be inpain, it takes a while.
I always say to my patients thatthey like a beautiful onion and
you have to peel all the layers,but it takes time.
It takes time because you have alot of layers to uncover and
maybe you're coming in for backpain, but What's really
happening is like you said,maybe gut health is an issue and
(15:59):
in that case, I can help youwith the physical symptoms of
that, but I will refer it tosomeone else because I have no
issue saying this is not myfield of expertise.
Let's find you someone thatknows more about it so you can
just add that to your recipe ofwellness.
Oh, I love that.
Yeah, it's, it's tuning in andwhen you've dealt with chronic
(16:20):
pain for a long time, You know,sometimes I feel like there's a
balance between dissociatingfrom the pain and tuning in to,
right?
Cause if you focus so much onthe pain, then, then it almost
like kind of controlled you.
So I feel like there's like abalance between, Hey, I still
have to like, kind of pushthrough this a little bit to
like function, right?
Cause if every time I.
(16:41):
Had pain and I just stoppedeverything then I wouldn't
function but it's also like likewhat you're saying is like the
more in tune the more you canpractice even just kind of
Understanding like your body'ssignals.
And so I say like a back pain isa signal You know, gut symptoms
are a signal, right?
And so that takes time to divein and it's multifaceted.
(17:05):
And I think it's hard in oursociety because everything is so
fast paced, fast paced, but ourbodies are not.
That way.
No.
No, no.
Even sitting on a computer allday long, that's not what we're
supposed to do.
That's not what we are designedto do.
Right?
So, um.
But it's also a reality for alot of people.
(17:25):
It is.
Unfortunately, it is.
So we have to adapt, um, what wedo and find ways to avoid that
state of chronic pain.
Um, but realizing that we are inpain is a first step, right?
Totally.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And.
Now, it feels like people arelooking for a magic pill, um, to
just take that away.
(17:45):
But pain is like you said, it'san alarm system.
If your house is burning, soyour body is your house, right?
Your house is burning, but youjust take, turn that alarm off
by taking a pill.
Your house is still burning,right?
I actually use that exactexample.
It's like putting the headphoneson while the fire alarm's going
off.
Exactly.
You have to acknowledge thatthere's something going on
(18:07):
without feeling guilty about it,but just saying, okay.
I think this is what'shappening.
What kind of firefighter do Ineed?
Right and then reaching out tothe one that seems most
appropriate to what's happeningright now This is where we step
in and say, okay, I think thisis what you have Maybe you
should go to the acupuncturist.
(18:29):
Maybe you should go to physicaltherapy.
Maybe you should go to pilatesor yoga um, but I Would love for
people to find in us a voicethat they can trust Because we
have the best interest at heartand they don't feel like we're
trying to sell anything to them,right?
(18:51):
Yeah, totally.
It's like I mean, we'll behonest with people.
It's like hey, I think you know,this has been going on This is
chronic.
So Hey, it might be closer to 10to 14 visits or so, right?
Like, I can't guaranteeanything, but I want you to kind
of have a ballpark and maybeeven more or less.
Like, it just depends.
I still like to give people aballpark, but there are certain
(19:12):
things I'm like, Hey, this islike just a few sessions.
Let's work on this.
But then also how can you.
Maybe do you want to come inkind of for ongoing like manual
therapy or tune ups or whateverthat is?
It's like I feel like also theway you frame it, right?
Yes, because we have people thatcome in for wellness whether
it's Like, like for dry, eitherlike dry needling or like mobile
(19:34):
joint mobilization or going overexercises or, you know, ongoing
foundational movement andfitness will, we'll work on all
of those things, but it's alsothe way that you word it too.
Right.
Like I I'm so I'm probably likeover the top where I'm like,
Hey.
You are from the, from thisstandpoint, you're at, you know,
(19:54):
you've improved this much.
So to get to this next level,you know, these are, you know,
these are the things that wewill work on.
And then, you know.
As long as they're an activeparticipant versus, you know,
sometimes people do want to betold what to do, but at the same
time, I'm like, Hey, we have toget you to understand what your
body's telling you, which isbasically your intuition.
(20:16):
Um, I did an episode, it shouldbe episode four, um, on how
chronic illness can kind of bepotentially the start of an
awakening.
And I say that it's more of.
Hey, obviously we still treatthe physical symptoms, but like
what else in your life isdysregulated, right?
You know, what, what's yoursocial support system?
(20:36):
Where are your balance?
Like, are they, are, is thereongoing boundary issues?
Is there any unprocessed traumathat maybe we haven't looked at
too?
Right.
So looking at it from this wholestandpoint, but.
I also feel like there's peopledeal with a lot of shame and
like their health, right?
Because they know maybe what todo and then maybe they don't do
(20:57):
it.
And the way I look at that is,okay, well, what is the
psychology behind that?
You know, how can we work withthem versus like, you know, yes,
pointing a finger, um, I agreewith that.
Um, and maybe some of thosefactors, they don't even know
that it's actually contributingto what's happening because for
them, most of the time, theythink Cairo is just cracking.
(21:20):
So they come in for a quickrelief session.
But then you dive a littledeeper and say, Hey, Okay,
you're coming in with a lot oflike stomach pain lately.
Are you stressed out?
And then they link the two ontheir own, right?
Okay, and then we dive deeperinto the onion saying, okay
Stomach stress.
What's your stressor?
(21:41):
Is it this or this or this?
Let's try to either remove it ormaybe be aware of it and then
work from there.
So it's really a process.
It's about understanding whereit's coming from and it's
different for every patient.
So if I have five patients in aday coming in for low back pain,
it could be five differentreasons.
A thousand percent.
(22:02):
And it could take that session,like that patient three
sessions, it could take thatpatient five sessions, and maybe
in one session it'll be gone forone of them.
But I can't know until they comeback and they Feel the relief or
they feel like there's been animprovement or if there's not
been any relief, you have torethink about it instead of
(22:23):
saying, okay, this is becauseyou did this.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
Taking the blame or justreassessing how you approach
that session, I think is always.
And I think that's a good thingfor providers saying, okay,
maybe I should have done thisinstead of this.
Let's try it out this time.
But if the patient is comingback, it means that they trust
you too.
(22:44):
So you have to own that trustand you have to live up to it
saying, okay.
Maybe we should add that andswitch that and not being a
knows it all and I don't know Idid it all I did all I could do
and it's on them.
No, you know, yeah Well, I meansome part of it too though is if
(23:05):
somebody it's like how to workwith them right how to work with
their situation or maybe theircircumstances and then there are
some times where maybe peoplejust Certain people, maybe
they're not necessarily a goodfit because they're not in that
mindset, they're in the mindset.
I want a quick fix.
Yes.
And so that's, that's where it'shard for me is when I get
somebody that wants a quick fix.
(23:26):
I'm like, I can, I can do mybest.
But this has been going on, likeyou said, like for 10 years.
Mm-hmm Mm-hmm And so.
I may not be able to tell thatperson that, and they may not,
they might be like, Hey, I just,you know, I want to kind of get
a, maybe go to a chiropractorwhere they adjust and then they
leave and they go home.
And they, they're, you know, notlike there's anything wrong with
(23:47):
that either, but maybe that'swhat they need at that time.
But at the same time, Lastingrelief is going to be us tuning
in with our bodies,understanding our bodies, and
slowing down to listen.
Yes.
And that's hard when the world'snoisy.
It is.
And you never know what's comingyour way as well too, right?
(24:09):
I had a patient that was doingwell.
I saw her for three sessions,two weeks apart, and then I'm
like, you're doing great! Let'ssee you in five to six weeks,
and she was very confident.
She was like, yeah, I thinkthat's, it's a good frequency.
I can do that.
And then she came back saying, Ijust went on vacation for the
last two weeks.
I was so stressed out and I feellike this is what took me over
(24:32):
the top.
So having them realize that sowe can adjust for next time and
for next session for me is a bigwin.
Totally.
Yeah.
Getting them to kind of.
Put two and two together, too,because so much people are like,
oh, I didn't do anything and myback just hurt or my Pel my hip
just hurt.
(24:52):
It's like, okay.
Well, maybe you didn't doanything.
But what about did something anevent happen during that time?
where maybe You know, there wasa lot of stress.
I mean, we are literally in avery stressful time in the
world, right?
We were just talking about thisbefore.
So we also have to be realisticas well and being patient with
(25:13):
people because they're almostbeing forced to understand their
bodies really fast because ofthe stress.
Yes.
And I know personally in my ownhealth journey, I was very
resistant to it.
It like took cancer for me to belike, okay, well now you got to
learn.
Right.
The Colby.
So like people don't get to thatpoint, but I do feel like as.
(25:33):
As a society, we're getting tothis pinnacle of like just
constant stress, constantanxiety.
People are more onantidepressants and in more pain
than ever.
And we have to look at it fromthis other point of view.
Cause I mean, the other point istoo, is like, you can get all
the adjustments in the world.
You can do all the breath work,you can eat as healthy as you
(25:53):
want, but if, if you don't havea community, if, if, if there's,
it's all work and no play, if wedon't have any joy in our life.
Those, those other things don'tmatter either, you know, like, I
think so much of wellness is somuch focusing on that and not,
hey, how do we build acommunity, you know, I mean.
(26:18):
How do we, how can we havepractitioners that we trust,
right?
Because there's so much feararound health care practitioners
now because of just the way thatthe market has been, I mean, and
all that.
Um, I do have a lot of patientsjust asking me questions even
(26:39):
though it's not Related tochiropractic in general, they
would just ask me questionsabout, I don't know, like
supplements or what kind ofpillows should I use?
Or what kind of activity shouldI be doing?
And I love that they feel safeenough to actually reach out
because even if as a chiro, I'mnot going to be selling you
(27:04):
pillows.
I can tell you what might workfor you.
So like you said, having that Pthat person that listens to you
and can guide you in the rightdirection is a big plus.
So I feel like this is where wewant to build a bridge where
people feel free to reach out tous and then the trust is built
(27:26):
and then we can just.
Keep on moving forward from theminstead of, you know, trying to
distance them and trying to sellthem a bunch of things that they
don't need.
I feel like when trust isearned, the relationship between
your patient and you as aprovider could last a long, a
lifetime.
(27:47):
Yeah.
I mean, uh, one thing to kind ofadd to with just kind of
building trust is I'd say likehaving people just notice, like
when you walk into like thehealthcare facility, like just
noticing, does your body feel,do you feel tense?
Do you feel your heart rateincrease?
Or do you feel light justnoticing that, right?
(28:10):
Like, I know when I walk intoyour office, it's like beautiful
colors, like you've taken timeto decorate it.
It doesn't feel like, like thisclinical office.
I mean, you've got a spinethat's made out of wood.
Yeah.
I thought was so cool.
Thank you.
I love that.
And then, you know, with, withour office, it's similar.
It's like, I want people to comein and feel like, ah, like
(28:32):
there's this aura of like,you're, you're in good hands.
Yes.
And it's intentional too,because it's like, just noticing
that, because I think sometimeswe don't notice it.
I agree with your office or myoffice.
I feel like when someone comesin, they can get a sense of how
(28:55):
you're working on who you are asa person before actually
allowing themselves to trust youas a provider.
So if they come in and they seemlike neons and very sterile.
And personal fluorescent light.
Yeah, it doesn't make them feelat ease.
So it's going to be harder foryou to try to have them to wind
(29:17):
down and trust you.
Well, then it's like if youthink about your nervous system,
right?
So you've got five senses.
And so I walked into a place theother day and it was like bright
fluorescent lights, bright pink,bright white floors, the music,
the sense.
It was just so much.
I could not.
(29:37):
I could not, I was like, I haveto like, just get into this
appointment and just leave.
Like I, I can't handle it, but Iknew what it was because I've
studied this stuff.
Cause these are subconsciousthings that your body's taking
in.
So now add on all of that andtalking about very, this wasn't
a healthcare facility, but likesay it was add on talking about
(29:58):
very intimate topics.
Like, you know, with pelvicpain, that's a big thing that I
treat.
Um, in, in.
And when we're talking aboutthose things, it's very intimate
details.
I mean, and you know, it'sletting people know like, Hey,
you know, one of the topics too,is consent as well.
And like if their nervous systemis already overstimulated by the
(30:21):
environment, how to kind of, andthen the questions are already
like intrusive or like, that's alot too.
So all of that kind of comesinto play.
And You know, one of the otherthings that I wanted to bring up
too, is like, kind of likeconsent, like, you know, cause
(30:42):
people do have consent over,they're like, Oh, well, you
know, it was just my doctor.
So I just let them do likewhatever it's like, no, you have
consent to tell somebody tostop, you know, and you can
always remove that consent orgive it that is.
That is yours, right?
Yes.
And so, what is, do you have anyadvice for somebody just based
(31:04):
on consent and what that meansto you?
The main thing that I want.
Our patients to, feel is theyare regaining control of, um,
the health and the decisions andwhat they want to achieve.
So it's always good for us tohave.
(31:24):
A starting point and then agoal, right?
So my intake forms on my firstvisits always longer because I
want to make sure that Iunderstand the full picture or
at least the full picture ofwhat they willing to give me at
that time.
And then as we go along, we candive deeper, but, um, having
that first session where theychoose actually how they want to
(31:48):
say things.
Without having me to be toointrusive, but at the same time
having enough for me to work onis really a fine line.
It's trying to get them to bevulnerable, but still holding
the control.
So, it's a, it's hard, it's,it's very difficult.
(32:11):
And then sometimes, you know,with our intuition as a
provider, if they come in with asymptom and you suspecting that
you don't want to be biased.
You want to make them understandand get to that point without
being biased, but still beingcompassionate and being, um,
understanding.
(32:31):
Well, I think it's so importantjust to assume, I mean,
everybody has dealt with someform of trauma.
Yes.
It's just.
How much of it is kind ofdictating their life and how
much control or how much of itis unprocessed and maybe they're
unaware of, right?
Cause I know that I was like,oh, I don't have trauma and I
had massive trauma.
(32:52):
I had all of the symptoms, theheightened nervous system, the
random autoimmune symptoms thatnobody could figure out.
Always kind of on edge whensomebody jumps behind me, oh my
God, you know, or justcatastrophizing all these kind
of different things.
And so.
Um, even if somebody says maybe,you know, if they have a history
(33:12):
of trauma, maybe on the intake,I don't ask for them to dive in.
I'm like, Hey, you know, I thinkit's important at least, you
know, in all aspects ofhealthcare, I would love it if
this was a case is like, Hey,you don't have to.
Tell me what you don't feelcomfortable telling me, but you
know, have you worked with atherapist with this?
(33:34):
Or is this something that's kindof showing up in other aspects
of your life, right?
A lot of the somatic trainingthat I took is is hey, you don't
even need to know what thetrauma is Just how the body is
responding to it.
Absolutely We can tell right?
Yeah, even if they didn't say sothe response from another
(33:57):
nervous system or just seeingthem in the office and having
the session you can tell thatthere's something that happened
but We don't have to know whathappened.
We just want you to acknowledgethat, yes, it played a role in
how you're feeling today andwe're going to try to help you.
(34:18):
Um, but yeah, you're right.
Most of the time we don't haveto know what it is.
Um, and most of the time youdon't even have to tell us.
We, we, we know because we sawall the other symptoms around
it.
Um, going back to creating asafe space where they feel
vulnerable, but willing to takethe next step to feel better?
(34:45):
Well, I think our clinics mightbe a little different where we
can actually, like we can sitwith the patient and see, I
think it's hard when people aregoing in and out, like every
five or 10 minutes to know, youknow, like most.
Healthcare practitioners are nottrauma informed, unfortunately.
Yes.
Right?
Yes.
And so, basically, that's whatwe're kind of alluding to this
(35:06):
whole time is like a traumainformed approach.
I didn't outwardly say it,right, you know, when we were
discussing earlier because somany people don't even know what
that term means.
They just assume, oh, well, I'mnot, you know, I didn't have
some big trauma, I'm not a warveteran or anything like that.
It's like, there's enough.
Traumas in this world thataren't the the ones that we
(35:26):
typically think of that can beaffecting us too But you know
signs of that can be so manythings like, you know like we
were just saying is likejumpiness or on edge and
constantly on edge or Ongoinganxiety ongoing depression.
It can be ongoing gut issues.
It can be ongoing pain.
I mean All of these differentthings, unable to make eye
(35:49):
contact with somebody, maybe,maybe if you can before, right?
And then maybe after the, um,experience happened, maybe the
lack of eye contact, how theyhold themselves.
So there's like these littlesubtle cues, but I unfortunately
don't think it's like a, um, awell recognized, um, skill set.
(36:09):
Or like, not, maybe not skillset, well recognized, but in our
practices, I mean, like, You'revery intuitive.
I didn't realize I was intuitiveuntil the last few years where
people kept telling me.
And I was like, are you sure youlike just bullshitting me?
You know?
And so I realized, Oh, okay.
I actually can.
(36:30):
Feel that too.
But I can also look and kind ofsee like how somebody is holding
themselves and how they'rereacting.
Yes.
It's because you take the time.
And once again, it's all part ofit, all part of the experience
that for me is really crucial asa provider.
If you don't take the time.
There's no way in 10 minutes I'mgoing to like, no, there's no
(36:53):
way, right?
So there's no way you can justcompact that whole patient's
life into 10 minutes sessionsbecause it takes me.
10 to 15 minutes to unwind thebody and get the nerve system to
where I want it to be before Ican actually adjust, you know?
Yeah.
So that's one of the other tipsthat I would give to, um,
(37:14):
whoever's looking for aprovider.
Try to look for longer sessions.
10 minutes as a Carol, I can doit.
But maybe if this is what you'relooking for, once again, it's
for me, I just don't feel likeI.
It could unpeel enough layersfor you to actually improve.
(37:38):
So, um, well, I think just kindof on the other end of that, if
they're like the initial intake,right, I think, cause you can
have followups that are shorter,but if like the initial intake
is like 10 minutes or something,that's really hard to do that.
So kind of.
I'd say it is to kind of clarifythat it's like those longer
initial sessions, would you say?
(37:59):
And then enough where thatpractitioner really understands
your health as well.
Yes.
Um, We'll start off for thoselonger and then sometimes we'll
go down to like, sometimespeople want 30 minutes or things
like that, but I can't do a 30minute eval.
Like I cannot do it.
If I do it, it's a disservice tothat person and I don't feel
good about it.
(38:20):
I need to sit and understandwhat's going on.
I need to know, Hey, what aresome other factors kind of
occurring with that as well?
But, um, so I'd say in summary,a lot of, you know, what we're
talking about is.
Holding a safe space, justknowing, you know, with looking
at practitioners, like howthey're, they're speaking to
(38:41):
you.
Are they including you in theconversation?
Is it more of a one way dynamic,like, Hey, I'm going to fix you
or Hey, is this a team dynamic?
I know it can be tempting towant to go to somebody that
wants to fix you air quotes, butthe reality is, is there's.
The human body is so incrediblymultifaceted and complex that
(39:02):
like, there's no fixing.
It's more of a ongoing evolvingprocess.
And so you can start evenunderstanding and how marketing
terms are used to and knowinglike, Hey, is this the right
practitioner or not?
So that might be a good firststep there.
Um, also noticing like theenvironment, maybe when you meet
the person, like how are youfeeling in your body?
(39:23):
Are you feeling tense?
Are you feeling calm?
Um, What's the environment like?
Do you feel overstimulated ornot?
Like, what are some of those,you know, things to kind of look
into?
And then overall, just knowinglike, hey, it's a, it's a
combined approach, you know,evidence based medicine is the
practitioner.
(39:44):
Experience the person in frontof you and research.
So research and your experiencemean nothing if the person
doesn't want to do it.
And that's where the consentcomes in, right?
So you have consent to say no oryes and, you know, all of those
things.
If the provider allows space forthat, which is what we try to
(40:06):
do, um, is making sure that weinclude the patients in our
sessions.
It's not, I'm doing things onyou.
It's asking questions, makingsure that they understand what
you're doing, because offeringyour back to a stranger feels
very vulnerable, right?
Oh my gosh, totally.
And especially if they're goingthrough it with some tools, or
like just So, I'm going to justadjust you without asking what's
(40:28):
happening.
For me, the first session isalways longer because you have
to let them know what you'redoing even though they have an
idea of what you're doing.
Um, it's always good to say,hey, what we're going to do is
you're going to take a deepbreath and then as you excel,
I'm going to adjust you.
You might hear a sound.
You have to guide them throughthat.
Explaining what's going tohappen.
(40:49):
Exactly.
So they're not just on edgewaiting for it to happen.
They know exactly what's goingto happen.
After it happens, like how wasit?
How do you feel?
Always offering the choice.
Um, I have a lot of patientsthat hate manual adjustment.
So I don't, I don't do that.
They hate the sound of cracking.
I don't do that.
(41:09):
Some of them prefer to use theactivator.
So that's what I do.
Some of them love being adjustedand love being crack and hearing
it.
So I just adapt my sessions towhatever they like, um, which I
think you have to, once again,find the fine line between what
they need and what they prefer.
(41:31):
If it's a lot, it's aligning.
It's that's great.
It's, yeah, it's a great sessionfor both of us.
Right.
I think, you know, when we're,when you're looking for
chiropractors or physicaltherapists or psychotherapists,
you know, you can start kind ofusing a lot of these tools to
kind of help guide you where itgets tougher is when you're like
truly deep in Western medicinewith surgery and all that stuff,
(41:55):
because it's like.
Like, gosh, I almost feel likeit's an either or thing, you
know, like the bedside manner.
It's like, I'm going to behonest, I'd rather have less
bedside manner and like a reallygood surgeon, you know?
And so when I think about thesethings, it's also more of like
these approaches.
It's from like a wellnessstandpoint, like the
(42:17):
practitioners that are not lifeand death, like ours are, are
not life or death, but more of,Hey, you know, there is a
balance when we start goingrealistically, when you dive
into the craziness of thehealthcare industry itself.
I mean, you still want someonethat's respectful, but at the
same time.
Maybe they're awkward in theirbedside manner, but they're a
really good like surgeon, youknow There's things that to
(42:40):
weigh pros and cons with thattoo.
Like I want my spine if I needspine surgery I mean, I want the
best.
Yes, like not somebody that canlike yeah Yeah, like I don't
want you by my bedside if Ican't walk after you know, like
so Just something to considerwith all of that.
And so, how can people find youif they'd like to work with you
(43:01):
or reach out?
Uh, you can find me atChiropractic Healing Touch in
North Austin, close to theDomain and the Arboretum.
I, uh, I am on Instagram.
And you can find me on mywebsite as well, too.
Cool.
Well, we'll link all that below.
Again, she's in Austin, Texaswith me as well.
And thank you so much forcoming.
Thank you for having me.
(43:22):
That was really fun.
It was.
It was.
You've been listening to TMITalk with your host, Dr.
Mary Grinberg.
Make sure to subscribe whereveryou get your podcasts.
To learn more about Dr.
Mary, head on over todrmarygrinberg.
com.
And make sure to follow Dr.
Mary at DrMaryPT on all socialchannels.
To learn more about Dr.
Mary's integrative practice forpain relief in Austin, Texas,
(43:43):
head on over to resilient rx.
com.
Thanks for listening!
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