April 21, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode of TMI Talk, Dr. Mary announces a shift in the focus of her podcast towards addressing health and movement professionals. Dr. Mary highlights the importance of integrating mind, body, and soul in healing practices, especially for chronic pain management. She explores various techniques, including understanding biomechanics, the nervous system, fascia, lymphatic flow, somatics, and Eastern medicine principles.
She also emphasizes the significance of addressing emotional and spiritual components in healing and the critical role of self-work for healthcare providers. The episode emphasizes a comprehensive, holistic approach to health and pain management, aiming to empower practitioners.
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00:00 Introduction to TMI Talk
00:33 New Studio and Direction
01:06 Focus on Health and Movement Professionals
03:16 Biomechanics and the Nervous System
04:13 Understanding Fascia and Lymphatic System
05:25 Primal Instincts and Modern Lifestyle
07:51 Somatics and Body Awareness
11:47 Incorporating Eastern Medicine
17:51 Holistic Approach to Pain and Healing
23:46 The Importance of Self-Work
31:13 Conclusion and Future Directions
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Ready to tackle the topics thatyou've been curious about but
never felt comfortable asking.
With a straightforward, nononsense perspective on life
blended with candid stories anda healthy dose of humor, Dr.
Mary Grinberg cuts through thefluff and addresses the
conversations we all need tohave on TMI talk where no
subject is to taboo our bodies,our minds, and everything in
(00:22):
between.
Now, here's your host, Dr.
Mary.
Hello everyone and welcome backto TMI talk with Dr.
Mary.
I'm your host, Dr.
Mary.
If you're watching the video,you'll see that we're in our new
podcast studio here in Austin,Texas.
So this is one of the rooms inmy office here in Austin, and we
(00:43):
absolutely love it.
Uh, we just moved a few weeksago and the space that we have
here is more quiet.
It's allowing us to expand tomore practitioners and provide a
safe space.
Space for healing for ourclients.
And so if you see thatadjustment, you'll see me
between here and my home studio.
But anyway, so I wanna make anannouncement though that I'm
(01:04):
gonna be switching directions.
And what I mean by this isbefore I was focusing so much
directly to people andunderstanding pelvic pain and
all the things surrounding itthat we don't necessarily
correlate directly withhealthcare, but there is, right?
Like lifestyle changes, work,all these different things that
(01:25):
affect the body.
And what I've decided is thatwe're going in a direction that
focuses more on health andmovement professionals.
Because I see there's a massiveneed for incorporating the mind,
body, soul into the healingaspects.
And I say that because we treata lot of people in chronic pain
and they've been misdiagnosedover the years, or people
(01:47):
haven't known how to help them.
And knowing some of thesetechniques and knowing some of
these tools can make a massivedifference.
And by talking directly tohealth and movement
professionals.
We can cast a wider net to helppeople quicker and sooner.
And that doesn't mean if you'renot one of those people that you
can't listen, I think you'llstill get a ton of information
(02:08):
out on this, but you'll see whoI'm talking to is gonna switch a
sh uh, switch a bit.
So you'll see that.
And I'm really excited becausehonestly I've taught physical
therapists over the years cocontinuing education courses.
It's.
And when I, when I do that, Ijust feel so alive.
I feel excited, and I reallybelieve this is, this is the
(02:30):
right path for me.
But in that I won't just stop atphysical therapist.
Right.
I want a, a collective movementof health and movement
professionals because those arethe people that are directly
working with people and they getto spend more time with
patients, especially people inthe rehab world and in the
movement world, because we'respending more time than they
(02:52):
often do in the health.
Care system here in the UnitedStates.
So the sooner we can help themand identify these things, the
sooner that people get better,the less we're in chronic pain
and the more we can really helpthis opioid epidemic that we
don't need to have.
But it's here because of thelack of understanding that we
have of the cohesiveness of thehuman body here in the United
(03:14):
States.
And so I'm gonna break down the,the main ways that I do this.
So first is gonna be thebiomechanics, right?
So traditionally in biomechanicswe learn, well, the joint moves
a specific way when we walk,this joint moves in this
direction, right?
And so when we think of it thatway.
(03:35):
It doesn't necessarily work thatway all the time.
And if we don't incorporate thenervous system, so for instance,
say if my knee is tight, right?
Because I'm not getting thatposterior gliding of the, the
femur on the tibia when I'mwalking or bending my knee.
What happens with that is thatwe're not incorporating, okay,
(03:57):
well you might wanna mobilizethat knee, but when you're doing
that, if we don't address thetissues around it that are tight
and restricted, we can mobilizethat joint all day.
The tissues are gonna keep itfrom moving and those tissues
are muscles.
But oftentimes what is oftenmissed is understanding of the
fascia.
The fascia is tissues that are,that are connect.
(04:21):
All of our organs.
So our visceral organs, ourmuscles.
Right.
Uh, when, when I was learningphysical therapy, so much of the
fascia was more focused on, oh,this holds the muscles in place.
It's more of a structural thingthan it is a neurological.
And what we know now is that thefascia.
Constricts and relaxes with thenervous system.
(04:42):
So it's more part of the nervoussystem than we've ever thought
before.
So if we're ignoring one of themost important parts of our
body, we're gonna miss a lotthere.
So understanding the nervoussystem, how fascism incorporated
with that understandinglymphatic flow, right?
So there's so much about thelymph system that's important
(05:03):
that if we know how to move, sothe lymphatic system, it doesn't
have.
You know, like with the venoussystem, it has its own little
pumps in the system.
Like in the valves.
We don't have that in thelymphatic system, but we have
our muscles that help push thatlymph back through our body.
And the lymphatic system issuper important'cause it's a
(05:23):
major part of our immune system.
So let's think about this.
So say if we're stagnant andwe're sitting at the computer
all day, or you have a patientthat's sitting at the computer
all day, they're not moving,their eyes are focused on the
computer, they're roundedshoulders.
Is it the pain from the roundedshoulders?
Is it the posture that we'vealways thought it was, or is it
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the fact that we're in thisforward position, we have the
vagus nerve in the front of theneck.
We're not able to activate thatpart.
We're not breathing through ourdiaphragm.
And then we're stuck in thisposition, not moving for hours,
and we're focused on a target.
Now, if we look at that from ourprimal instincts, our body
thinks we want to attack, so ournervous system is gonna respond.
(06:07):
Cohesively with that, right?
So we're gonna feel tense, we'regonna feel anxious because we
wanna fight.
And so in that, what do youthink happens with the muscles?
So the muscles are gonna tenseup, the jaw's gonna tense up the
pelvis, right?
Because what's physiologicallyhappening is the blood is
diverting away from our, our gutand our digestive system.
'cause the last thing our bodywants to do is poop when you're
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running from a bear.
Also, we likely don't wanna havesex during that time.
Some people do get more arousedwhen they are more stressed.
But in general, the blood flowdiverts away from those organs
'cause it's trying to prioritizethat.
So, so much of this in thenervous system is understanding
our primal instincts is to keepus alive and our brain gets to
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override that.
And so in that, the, the biggestthing with the nervous system,
so these are all incorporated.
So I talked about the nervoussystem, the fascia, the
lymphatic system, but also too,just knowing how our primal
instincts work.
And so this goes in with thenervous system.
(07:09):
If we're not moving all day,like think about thousands and
thousands of years ago howpeople moved.
We didn't have computers, wedidn't have technology.
These are all gifts.
These are wonderful things, butlike anything, the pendulum can
swing in the opposite direction,and that's what's happening
here.
We're wondering why people arein chronic pain over years and
years and years, but if we lookat their lifestyle, we're not
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moving.
We're not eating well.
We're not, um, in community,right?
And so look at those primalinstincts.
We need community.
We need nourishing food.
We need, let me rewind.
Supportive, community,supportive, and loving
community.
Nourishing food.
We need movement and to pullourselves back into our body.
(07:51):
So the next aspect too is, isunderstanding somatics.
And somatics is basicallypulling yourself into your body.
So much of what we do is fromthe neck up.
And so if you think about it, ifwe're disconnected from our
entire bodies for a long periodof time, what do you think that
tells Our primal instincts go.
We are, we are fighting for ourlives.
(08:12):
We are going, going, going.
so, so much of anxiety, so muchof depression and things like
that are when we're so much inour head and not in our body,
and understanding techniques tohelp pull people into the body
and things like we, we, we heara lot of terms like this, like
breath work, mindfulness.
There's so many different waysto, to do this, but.
(08:35):
And, and, and everybody's alittle different.
So there's not a one size fitsall.
In my experience, the goal is toget people in their bodies so
they can start trusting theirbodies again.
We call this interoception ifyou're looking at it from a
research standpoint.
So just understanding your owncues, right?
And if you think about how do weget ourselves into our body?
(08:56):
Well, there's so many differentthings, right?
So say if you have a client thatcomes in, they're all flustered,
they maybe just got off a reallystressful call, um, maybe
they're caring for aging parentsand they're already dealing with
chronic pain that people can'tfigure out, is that somebody
we're gonna push that day tomaybe max out with lifting or
(09:17):
maybe really push with some deeptissue work, right?
There's a difference here.
And so we have to adjust basedon that person's nervous system.
So that person may not be thesame person every time they come
in the door.
And so we get to adjust withthat.
And I feel like so much in, atleast in the physical therapy
world, we get stuck on protocolsand, oh, I didn't learn this in
school.
(09:37):
I didn't learn this in Con Ed.
But the goal is also too, toteach you intuitively how to
adjust with the patient in orthe client in front of you.
Right?
And so there's not specificprotocols.
When we listen or listen togurus or we take things at blind
face value, we're not digestingit ourselves.
(09:57):
So it's your interpretation ofthe messaging and you get to
provide that with a patient.
I.
Obviously, like regarding safetyand things like that, there's
protocols and things to avoid,right.
Um, especially like if we'redealing with a carotid artery,
we're not gonna necessarilymassage right in the carotid
artery'cause we feel intuitivelynecessary to do that.
My point is more sticking withthe safety protocols of
(10:19):
understanding, hey, you know,basic things like, like I said.
You know, with the carotidartery, and then just being
careful, just knowing theanatomy and knowing, Hey, what
are some safe things to do withthis person and not, right?
Like if somebody has a reallyhigh blood pressure of 200, over
100.
That's a, we need to be callingthe, the, their doctor, or
(10:42):
likely sending them to theemergency room This is somebody
we'd consult with their doctorbefore doing anything.
So this is not just so woo thatwe're just so disconnected from
the body.
And so where I'm going with thisis starting to trust the body.
So we have, the body has, itsits own brain, and then the
brain gets to interpret it.
And so we've seen this withresearch.
(11:03):
So Lorimer Mosley is a bigresearcher.
I.
And understanding chronic painand understanding that the body
gets to just determine what themessage is, right?
So the, the body tells us pain,pain, pain, but then the brain
gets to interpret it.
And so if we don't know that as.
Clinicians or as movementprofessionals, and we're
(11:24):
stopping every time somebody haspain, we're reinforcing this
kind of false narrative thatsomething's going off.
I think he uses the analogy of,of a fire alarm.
So the fire alarm going off whenthere's not a fire, right?
And so it's, it's important thatwe interpret those messages.
And so you're gonna see mestarting to talk more about
(11:45):
somatics and things like that.
And now if we start looking, thenext piece is gonna be
understanding Eastern Medicineand all of this.
And so Eastern medicine can beso many different things.
You might be thinking, what doesthis mean?
Well, let's put this intoperspective here.
Um, modern medicine has beenaround for about 150 years, and
Eastern medicine has been aroundfor about 3000 to 5,000 years.
(12:08):
You know, you can look up abunch of different things, but
think about that for a minute.
There is wisdom in our bodies,and I'm not saying this from a
woo perspective, it's veryimportant that I come across
scientific, but alsounderstanding the wisdom of the
people before us, thousands andthousands of years, and they've
been able to tap into somethingcalled a higher consciousness,
(12:28):
right?
So a higher consciousness iswhen we're connected higher to
the spiritual realm.
And here on earth, a lot oftimes we call like lower
consciousness is when we are sofocused on fear and scarcity and
in the world today and grabgreed, all these things.
So you see that a lot happening.
This is why we are in mass chaosright now, and what I mean by
(12:52):
that is that the more we can getpeople to understand their body
wisdom, again, these allinterconnect, like I said, with
the somatics, but.
Getting them to understand theirown internal cues and things
like that.
And so with Eastern Medicine,for example.
Say somebody comes in with, um,chronic neck or jaw pain, right?
(13:12):
And they're, they're justconstantly super, super tight.
And we keep telling them torelax.
But here's the thing, manypeople don't know how to relax.
They never went taught.
So what we're telling somebodyis almost reinforcing the shame
cycle.
They know they need to relax.
Let's.
Let's be honest.
They just don't probably knowhow.
And I was one of those people, Iwas like, why?
(13:32):
Why is everyone telling me torelax?
I don't understand.
How do I relax?
Right?
And so they don't have the toolsyet.
And so we're notpsychotherapists, right?
Unless you are apsychotherapist.
Um, but we're not.
Taking on their traumas.
We're not talking through theirtraumas with them.
We're just helping their bodyunderstand what is going on.
And this is massive.
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This is life changing for peoplewhen they understand this.
And so much of what we do in theclinic and that I've, what I've
seen in the past 14 years withmy clients is just teaching them
to feel empowered in their body.
It's not about our ego.
And so what, like I said, withEastern medicine, so if
somebody's coming in withchronic jaw pain, yes, we still
are gonna work on the jaw.
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We're gonna work on the upperneck, we're gonna work on the
first rib.
We're gonna do all of the thingsright?
We're gonna show them exercises,we're gonna assess the jaw,
right?
And if you're a physicaltherapist here or a
chiropractor, anybody that'sdoing body work on patients or
clients in that.
Where also the eastern medicinepart comes in is this is
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speaking your truth.
So I'll say to somebody, whereare you not showing up
authentically as yourself?
Where are you not speaking yourtruth?
Right?
And so we're combining the twothings.
And when I say spirituality,what I mean is your inner
wisdom, right?
And so what that means isunderstanding your own cues,
understanding your own thoughtsand your own messages outside of
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the world around us.
So it's a very.
Important thing for our health.
I believe this is why we have alot of health issues, not
blaming all health on this, buta lot of things that people
can't figure out.
Yes, sure we have muneuromuscular diseases and
things like that, but there aresome people that have.
Chronic pain and chronic illnessthat's unexplained and they
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don't know how to interprettheir own messages to get the
care outside of them, to knowwhere to go.
'cause a lot of times what I seepeople doing is they're going
outside of them and looking andthey're just not getting
answers.
But sometimes it's sitting withyourself.
And getting people to understandthe messages.
And Eastern medicine helps guideus based on where things are in
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the body, right?
And so, for instance, maybesomebody with, chronic tailbone
pain.
So the, that's the sacralchakra.
And in that we hold, we alsostore trauma in the pelvis.
So what are some unprocessed.
Things that they are, they maybe holding onto that they
haven't addressed.
And so another thing in thisarea too is creativity.
(16:01):
So if somebody's constantlycoming to you and they do really
well with exercises, but then itkind of keeps coming back, so we
know there's a physicalcomponent right now, we get to
go to the emotional and innerinner wisdom.
So the soul part where they getto decide.
Oh, well, you get to guide themand say, where in your life,
(16:21):
have you been creative lately?
Where have you explored acreative outlet?
And so the body gives us signsand we, and Eastern Medicine
helps us to interpret some ofthose things.
Obviously Eastern medicine is somany different things.
I'm not just breaking it down tojust these things, but in order
to bring it into Westernmedicine and into our.
Culture.
And to make it more cohesive, wehave to understand some of the
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basic, basic stuff.
And then it kind of builds fromthere.
And I say basic because theseare things that were not taught
to me.
I've had to learn as, assomebody on the other side.
'cause I'm on my own spirituallyhealing journey.
And what that means is justunderstanding your own body,
understanding why we're here onthis earth.
And this might sound woo, but ifyou look up, there's about 85%
(17:04):
of people.
Believe in something higher.
And if we're not incorporatingthis into understanding that in,
in our healthcare system, we'remissing a big piece of people.
And this isn't, I'm not sayingreligion, we don't need to be
pushing religion or anything onthat.
But for instance, if somebody'scoming in and they're super
stressed and they believewhatever God they believe in, or
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whatever spiritual entity theybelieve in, if it's a benevolent
force or whatever it is, how canwe get them to tap into that?
Hey, what are some prayers thatyou typically do?
Have you connected from thatstandpoint?
Right?
So getting them to understandhow that can help support their
nervous system, right?
And so if we know somethingoutside of us can help us, that
can help calm the nervoussystem, right?
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And everybody's gonna havedifferent beliefs.
And so that's a little bit moreof the spiritual side.
And then, you know, also justunderstanding so much of diet,
right?
So the gut is so connected tothe brain, right?
And so if somebody's constantlybloated and they're having back
pain and they're anxious, right?
Well think about.
(18:06):
How the whole body workstogether.
So let's look at this for asecond.
So in the rectum is right infront of the sacrum.
And so if somebody isconstipated and they're having
chronic back pain, how can thatnot affect it?
Right?
And so the rectum can push uponthat sacrum.
And we also have, so if somebodyhas a uterus.
Um, the, the top of the uterus,we have the uterosacral
(18:28):
ligaments, so that's the uterus.
This, the ligament that connectsthe top, the uterus to the
sacrum, so it holds it up,right?
Those pelvic organs are not justsupported by the pelvic four
muscles.
They're held up by ligamentsthat hold up the pelvis or the,
the pelvic organs.
And so now you've got that kindof pulling down, and then it
(18:48):
almost pulls the lumbar spinemore into lordosis.
So you've got.
So many of these differentaspects right there, right?
So you've got the rectum, thenyou've got the, um, vagina and
uterus, and that's all pushingand that can be tugging on that
uterosacral ligament, even if,and, and that goes to, to show
too, like on different phases oftheir cycle, when are they
(19:11):
experiencing this?
And so.
I am gonna be starting toincorporate all of these things.
'cause then we're looking at itfrom a visceral component.
Another aspect is gonna be tooof understanding how the entire
body is connected.
Um, I just had a patient come inthe other day that was.
Seen three or four, maybe fivephysical therapists, and they
(19:33):
were told the whole body is notconnected, you all.
We really need to understandit's our responsibility to
understand how the body isconnected.
And so if my heel strike on myleft foot, if I'm not heel
striking or I'm not another one,I actually.
See a lot of is people notpushing off through their
forefoot, so they're not gettingthat full push off, so then
(19:56):
their calf is not pushing off.
So then if we think about howthat, we need that lymphatic
drainage to occur.
So starting maybe in the calf,if we're not, the lymph system
doesn't have its own pump, weuse our muscles to do that.
So then maybe somebody mighthave swelling in their feet.
'cause we're not pushing offefficiently through that
(20:16):
forefoot.
I find this a lot with olderclients where maybe they're not
pushing off through that area.
So then they start to shuffle,then the gait starts going off.
Then they're not getting as muchthoracic spine rotation, then
the hips have to overworkbecause we're not doing that or
their arm swinging, right?
So a lot of times people maybehold their purse on their right
side, and then they swing theirleft arm.
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Well, now we're not getting thatright-sided rotation, right?
And so we need all of thismovement to help the body move
efficiently.
So from a biomechanicalstandpoint, from a lymphatic
standpoint, from a fascialstandpoint, from an emotional
standpoint, right?
So.
Kind of going back more toEastern medicine.
So much of it, this is stagnantenergy and so we are made of
(20:57):
energy, we are made of atoms,which, and, and understanding
how all of that intertwines.
So we do emit energy.
We study this in radiology.
We have the EMG.
Studies the brain.
We have the EKG that studies theheart, EMG, that studies the
muscle.
So these are true electricpulses that are measuring it.
And we can't deny that becauseit's in science now.
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Right?
And so.
There's research coming out to,to show when the heart rhythm
and the brain rhythm aretogether, then we're really
feeling aligned and we're reallyin our body.
And then that's when we canconnect, um, ourselves to
feeling more calm in our nervoussystem.
And.
And so just knowing that from ascientific point of view, right?
(21:42):
This can go in so many differentways because then the cells
start to beat at a, at afrequency or vibration that
helps us heal as well.
So this isn't, woo, this isreally, you're gonna start
seeing more of this stuff startcoming up because people are not
doing well here, in the UnitedStates.
And so, you know, again, lookingat the whole, whole body, how
(22:04):
it's connected, how we look atit from a fascial standpoint.
So biomechanical, so the joints,we've got the fascia, we've got
the lymphatic system.
We've got looking at, um,somatics, so understanding our
body's internal messages.
Then we've got more of, some ofthe eastern medicine side, where
we're looking at emotions in thebody where people may be not
(22:25):
speaking their truth, where arethey not, um, expressing
themselves?
Where are they holding back?
And the body will show us inthose, in those different
patterns, looking at diet.
If somebody's chronicallybloated, that's gonna affect,
um, their brain.
Uh, one thing I didn't mentionis about 80 or so percent of the
serotonin is produced in ourgut.
So if our gut is irritated, weneed serotonin and then also
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looking at, um, more of thevisceral organs.
So if somebody's back pain,what's going on?
What phase of their cycle?
I think so much.
We think of the phases of cycleas when somebody's menstruating,
but if you look at the lutealphase, that's when we see the
progesterone and estrogen spike.
So progesterone is more thanestrogen around that time.
So understanding how thosehormones can affect the body.
(23:11):
Right.
And so, or mid cycle right?
Estrogen's gonna spike duringovulation, and so are they
having more symptoms during thattime?
So if you're working with peoplewith that have a uterus, just
making sure that we're keepingall of these things in mind.
This might sound like a lot, butthis episode is really gonna
summarize you of what you'regonna be hearing from me in the
(23:31):
future to help your, yourclients, um, understand how the,
the full body works together,um, and.
A few other pieces on top ofthat.
I know I haven't really touchedon everything.
There's so much that I wannatalk to here.
There's so much to go through,but getting people to understand
and, and, and to be honest, somuch of this starts with us,
(23:54):
right?
So us and taking our ego out ofit.
So we've got, um, two aspects.
You've got your ego and yourhigher self.
So your higher self is basicallywho you are or.
Who you are without your ego andwhat your what your mission is
here on, on this planet, right?
Everybody has gifts and so, somuch of our lives, we, we focus
(24:14):
so much on ego, and I've seen inhealthcare and I've been here
myself, where if somebodydoesn't get better, I
immediately wanna blame them, inthe past.
And what that means is.
I was telling myself, well, ifI'm not good, I'm not a good
person.
And we have to really check ouregos at the door.
And this takes our own selfwork.
Okay?
This takes a lot of self work todo and a lot of groundedness.
(24:35):
So our own experience in thesethings, in my experience, to my
knowledge, and I'm yet to seethis, it is almost impossible to
be able to help people heal ifwe're not doing the work
ourselves.
And so it can be incrediblyhumbling.
And so if somebody's not gettingbetter, let's give them the
(24:56):
benefit of the doubt.
Yeah.
They may actually not be doingit, but why are they depressed?
Is there a lot going on at home?
Can we give them tools to helptheir nervous system?
Because a lot of times people gointo fight, flight, or freeze,
right?
And so if they're freezing.
What's going on?
Why are they freezing?
How can we help them come out ofthat freeze versus, oh, you
know, you're not doing yourstuff well, that person might
(25:18):
need some extra support.
Maybe they just need to listento somebody that you know, just
to express what's on, you know,their processing right now.
Hey, you know.
I'm, I'm just going through alot.
I'm, you know, maybe I'm caringfor aging parents or whatever
that may be.
And so then we get to take themthrough exercises to pull them
in their body and then telltheir nervous system that
(25:39):
they're safe.
Right?
So, so much of this is knowinghow to talk to the, to show the
body that it's safe because thebrain, you can't just, this is
why gratitude journals andthings like that don't work.
You can't trick your brain outof it.
You've gotta physically feel itin your body.
And so if you're grounded, it'seasier to help people and take
(25:59):
your ego out of it.
How can I show up for them?
What space can I provide?
So if you're, if you're comingin with an energy that's really
intense and, um, anxious, thattransmits, right?
And so when that happens.
We are making it less about theclient and more about us.
So what can we provide in theenvironment that helps them
(26:22):
soothe, right?
Looking at sounds, smells,colors, how are we speaking?
Are we using the same tone thatthey're using?
Are we standing over them andtalking down to them?
These are all things that tapinto our primal instincts that
tell us that we're not safe, sowe could be inadvertently
providing an un.
Safe space for somebody to healand then blaming them for not
(26:44):
getting better.
So, and I don't, I, I reallydon't believe people are doing
this intentionally.
I really wanna just bringawareness to this.
'cause I've done it in the pastand I've seen how much it can
make, um, a big difference inhow somebody heals and making
the session about the client,right?
It's an exchange of energy.
They're paying you, which ismoney.
Money is energy, and you'regiving your physical energy to
(27:05):
them.
So if they're paying and thenwe're putting our energy on
them, they're kind of.
Paying twice.
Um, so thinking of it from thatperspective, but then overall I
wanna tie in how research comesinto play, like interoception,
right?
When we understand our body'scues, when we know what the
triggers are, pulling in oursenses, understanding heart rate
(27:28):
variability, that's gonna besuper important.
That's a good way to measuresomebody's stress and get them
to start seeing it, right?
And so heart rate variabilityis.
People are doing it already,right?
They have their watches, theyhave their rings, they have the
different things, and a lot oftimes they don't, uh, know how
to interpret that data.
And so a heart rate variability,for instance, is gonna be
amazing.
(27:49):
And I, like I said, you're gonnasee a lot of stuff start
starting to come out about this.
Um, I've just been researchingit a lot and, and understanding.
The frequency side of all ofthese things.
And so what that means is thatwhen your heart rate, so say if
your heart rate, it goes up anddown and up and down and up and
down.
When we're anxious, it's beep,beep, beep, beep, beep, beep,
(28:11):
beep, beep, beep, beep.
There's less time in betweeneach heartbeat, so you're, and
so it's measured inmilliseconds, so you have less
time.
So if I have more time, beep,beep, beep, right?
I'm in a calmer state.
And so what heart ratevariability does is it kind of
takes an average of all of thosein-betweens and tells you where
(28:32):
you're at.
So if you spend most of the daywith a lower heart rate
variability, you've probablybeen in more chronic stress
because your heart rate's beengoing faster.
And now there's not specificallya subset of specifics for people
on the guidelines for this.
It's really gonna be based onthat individual.
(28:53):
Like for instance, I went backand I looked at my heart rate
variability, which I had no ideawas back in, you know, 2019 when
I was diagnosed with cancer.
It was very low.
It was around 30 milliseconds.
And now as I start doing more ofthis.
Um, grounded healing exercise,pulling myself into my body, and
again, using science to back allthis up.
(29:14):
Um, like I said, with the heartrate variability, I see now my
heart variability is closer to50 to 60.
That's a drastic difference.
And I was eating healthy and Iwas exercising right, and I was
doing all the right things.
That's what turned me to all ofthis.
I've.
Been a teacher for a physicaltherapist.
I've done the orthopedicresidencies, uh, the residency.
(29:36):
I have taken ongoing continuingeducation courses and it wasn't
really until I got sick, that'swhen I realized holy shit we're
missing so much.
And so the cool thing is you getto.
To do this.
It's in science, it's sciencebacked, right?
So there's different parts ofthe brain and different parts of
the body.
We've got the vagus nerve, soyou're gonna start seeing a lot
of stuff about the vagus nerve.
(29:57):
It's so important because thevagus nerve connects to all of
our, a majority of our visceralorgans, right?
And so it's gonna respond tostress, and so you'll see.
Sometimes people are stuck inthe sympathetic dominance.
Um, and what that means is thattheir body just cannot come out
of it.
So we have to teach them how tocome out of it, right?
(30:18):
So we're really coming at thisfrom an anatomical and
physiological point of view aswell.
And so different things.
So the, the vagus nerve is gonnabe right behind the throat as
well.
So that's why humming.
And breath work and, um,singing.
Those are gonna be good ways tokind of laughing.
Those are gonna be good ways tokind of bring that down.
(30:39):
Also, thinking about laughing,laughing's gonna release
dopamine, serotonin, andoxytocin, right?
And so we, before I would thinkwhen I talk to somebody, and
maybe we didn't, um, do as muchexercise that day, but they
still felt better.
Well think about what we justdid for them.
We helped get the.
The pharmaceuticals in yourbrain starting to work for you.
(31:01):
Right.
And so again, we're not takingit on, we're not taking on, uh,
from a mental healthperspective, but we're teaching
them about their bodies and justreinforcing those messages.
And in summary, looking at.
The whole entire body, thebiomechanics, looking at the
(31:21):
anatomy and physiology, right,especially you're gonna, like I
said, you're gonna start seeingmore about the vagus nerve
pulling people out of thatdominant fight or flight
response in order for them tofeel safe, right?
Understanding how emotions aregoing to be showing up in
different parts of the body togive us messages of.
Where to help people guide whilestill treating their physical
(31:42):
symptoms.
It's very important that we dothat because people can feel
gaslit.
Otherwise.
I've been on the other side ofit and been in incredibly
frustrated and just felt, um,lost again, understanding
fascia.
And understanding, um, morethings that are gonna be coming
out, especially HRVs, that'sgonna be a super quick and easy
one for you to be able to helppeople with.
(32:04):
So in summary, I'm reallyexcited to share this with you.
It's taken a lot for me to be soopen with my approach, but I
realize this.
Can help a lot of people and I'mso excited to be on this journey
with you to explore becausereally what this is doing is
it's also your own healingjourney as well.
And I think we can impact a lotof people and make a big
(32:24):
difference.
And I really feel aligned withthis and I truly believe this is
my life's work.
So thank you for listening, andI am also gonna tag below my
newsletter for you to be updatedon.
Any education topics or webinarsor courses or speaking
opportunities that I will be,um, a part of.
So thank you so much.
(32:45):
You've been listening to TMItalk with your host, Dr.
Mary Grinberg.
Make sure to subscribe whereveryou get your podcasts.
To learn more about Dr.
Mary, head on over to dr marygrinberg.com and make sure to
follow Dr.
Mary at Dr.
Mary PT on all social channels.
To learn more about Dr.
Mary's integrative practice forpain relief in Austin, Texas,
head on over to resilientrx.com.
(33:07):
Thanks for listening.
Ready to tackle the topics thatyou've been curious about but
never felt comfortable asking.
With a straightforward, nononsense perspective on life
blended with candid stories anda healthy dose of humor, Dr.
Mary Grinberg cuts through thefluff and addresses the
conversations we all need tohave on TMI talk where no
subject is to taboo our bodies,our minds, and everything in
(00:22):
between.
Now, here's your host, Dr.
Mary.
Hello everyone and welcome backto TMI talk with Dr.
Mary.
I'm your host, Dr.
Mary.
If you're watching the video,you'll see that we're in our new
podcast studio here in Austin,Texas.
So this is one of the rooms inmy office here in Austin, and we
(00:43):
absolutely love it.
Uh, we just moved a few weeksago and the space that we have
here is more quiet.
It's allowing us to expand tomore practitioners and provide a
safe space.
Space for healing for ourclients.
And so if you see thatadjustment, you'll see me
between here and my home studio.
But anyway, so I wanna make anannouncement though that I'm
(01:04):
gonna be switching directions.
And what I mean by this isbefore I was focusing so much
directly to people andunderstanding pelvic pain and
all the things surrounding itthat we don't necessarily
correlate directly withhealthcare, but there is, right?
Like lifestyle changes, work,all these different things that
(01:25):
affect the body.
And what I've decided is thatwe're going in a direction that
focuses more on health andmovement professionals.
Because I see there's a massiveneed for incorporating the mind,
body, soul into the healingaspects.
And I say that because we treata lot of people in chronic pain
and they've been misdiagnosedover the years, or people
(01:47):
haven't known how to help them.
And knowing some of thesetechniques and knowing some of
these tools can make a massivedifference.
And by talking directly tohealth and movement
professionals.
We can cast a wider net to helppeople quicker and sooner.
And that doesn't mean if you'renot one of those people that you
can't listen, I think you'llstill get a ton of information
(02:08):
out on this, but you'll see whoI'm talking to is gonna switch a
sh uh, switch a bit.
So you'll see that.
And I'm really excited becausehonestly I've taught physical
therapists over the years cocontinuing education courses.
It's.
And when I, when I do that, Ijust feel so alive.
I feel excited, and I reallybelieve this is, this is the
(02:30):
right path for me.
But in that I won't just stop atphysical therapist.
Right.
I want a, a collective movementof health and movement
professionals because those arethe people that are directly
working with people and they getto spend more time with
patients, especially people inthe rehab world and in the
movement world, because we'respending more time than they
(02:52):
often do in the health.
Care system here in the UnitedStates.
So the sooner we can help themand identify these things, the
sooner that people get better,the less we're in chronic pain
and the more we can really helpthis opioid epidemic that we
don't need to have.
But it's here because of thelack of understanding that we
have of the cohesiveness of thehuman body here in the United
(03:14):
States.
And so I'm gonna break down the,the main ways that I do this.
So first is gonna be thebiomechanics, right?
So traditionally in biomechanicswe learn, well, the joint moves
a specific way when we walk,this joint moves in this
direction, right?
And so when we think of it thatway.
(03:35):
It doesn't necessarily work thatway all the time.
And if we don't incorporate thenervous system, so for instance,
say if my knee is tight, right?
Because I'm not getting thatposterior gliding of the, the
femur on the tibia when I'mwalking or bending my knee.
What happens with that is thatwe're not incorporating, okay,
(03:57):
well you might wanna mobilizethat knee, but when you're doing
that, if we don't address thetissues around it that are tight
and restricted, we can mobilizethat joint all day.
The tissues are gonna keep itfrom moving and those tissues
are muscles.
But oftentimes what is oftenmissed is understanding of the
fascia.
The fascia is tissues that are,that are connect.
(04:21):
All of our organs.
So our visceral organs, ourmuscles.
Right.
Uh, when, when I was learningphysical therapy, so much of the
fascia was more focused on, oh,this holds the muscles in place.
It's more of a structural thingthan it is a neurological.
And what we know now is that thefascia.
Constricts and relaxes with thenervous system.
(04:42):
So it's more part of the nervoussystem than we've ever thought
before.
So if we're ignoring one of themost important parts of our
body, we're gonna miss a lotthere.
So understanding the nervoussystem, how fascism incorporated
with that understandinglymphatic flow, right?
So there's so much about thelymph system that's important
(05:03):
that if we know how to move, sothe lymphatic system, it doesn't
have.
You know, like with the venoussystem, it has its own little
pumps in the system.
Like in the valves.
We don't have that in thelymphatic system, but we have
our muscles that help push thatlymph back through our body.
And the lymphatic system issuper important'cause it's a
(05:23):
major part of our immune system.
So let's think about this.
So say if we're stagnant andwe're sitting at the computer
all day, or you have a patientthat's sitting at the computer
all day, they're not moving,their eyes are focused on the
computer, they're roundedshoulders.
Is it the pain from the roundedshoulders?
Is it the posture that we'vealways thought it was, or is it
(05:43):
the fact that we're in thisforward position, we have the
vagus nerve in the front of theneck.
We're not able to activate thatpart.
We're not breathing through ourdiaphragm.
And then we're stuck in thisposition, not moving for hours,
and we're focused on a target.
Now, if we look at that from ourprimal instincts, our body
thinks we want to attack, so ournervous system is gonna respond.
(06:07):
Cohesively with that, right?
So we're gonna feel tense, we'regonna feel anxious because we
wanna fight.
And so in that, what do youthink happens with the muscles?
So the muscles are gonna tenseup, the jaw's gonna tense up the
pelvis, right?
Because what's physiologicallyhappening is the blood is
diverting away from our, our gutand our digestive system.
'cause the last thing our bodywants to do is poop when you're
(06:29):
running from a bear.
Also, we likely don't wanna havesex during that time.
Some people do get more arousedwhen they are more stressed.
But in general, the blood flowdiverts away from those organs
'cause it's trying to prioritizethat.
So, so much of this in thenervous system is understanding
our primal instincts is to keepus alive and our brain gets to
(06:49):
override that.
And so in that, the, the biggestthing with the nervous system,
so these are all incorporated.
So I talked about the nervoussystem, the fascia, the
lymphatic system, but also too,just knowing how our primal
instincts work.
And so this goes in with thenervous system.
(07:09):
If we're not moving all day,like think about thousands and
thousands of years ago howpeople moved.
We didn't have computers, wedidn't have technology.
These are all gifts.
These are wonderful things, butlike anything, the pendulum can
swing in the opposite direction,and that's what's happening
here.
We're wondering why people arein chronic pain over years and
years and years, but if we lookat their lifestyle, we're not
(07:30):
moving.
We're not eating well.
We're not, um, in community,right?
And so look at those primalinstincts.
We need community.
We need nourishing food.
We need, let me rewind.
Supportive, community,supportive, and loving
community.
Nourishing food.
We need movement and to pullourselves back into our body.
(07:51):
So the next aspect too is, isunderstanding somatics.
And somatics is basicallypulling yourself into your body.
So much of what we do is fromthe neck up.
And so if you think about it, ifwe're disconnected from our
entire bodies for a long periodof time, what do you think that
tells Our primal instincts go.
We are, we are fighting for ourlives.
(08:12):
We are going, going, going.
so, so much of anxiety, so muchof depression and things like
that are when we're so much inour head and not in our body,
and understanding techniques tohelp pull people into the body
and things like we, we, we heara lot of terms like this, like
breath work, mindfulness.
There's so many different waysto, to do this, but.
(08:35):
And, and, and everybody's alittle different.
So there's not a one size fitsall.
In my experience, the goal is toget people in their bodies so
they can start trusting theirbodies again.
We call this interoception ifyou're looking at it from a
research standpoint.
So just understanding your owncues, right?
And if you think about how do weget ourselves into our body?
(08:56):
Well, there's so many differentthings, right?
So say if you have a client thatcomes in, they're all flustered,
they maybe just got off a reallystressful call, um, maybe
they're caring for aging parentsand they're already dealing with
chronic pain that people can'tfigure out, is that somebody
we're gonna push that day tomaybe max out with lifting or
(09:17):
maybe really push with some deeptissue work, right?
There's a difference here.
And so we have to adjust basedon that person's nervous system.
So that person may not be thesame person every time they come
in the door.
And so we get to adjust withthat.
And I feel like so much in, atleast in the physical therapy
world, we get stuck on protocolsand, oh, I didn't learn this in
school.
(09:37):
I didn't learn this in Con Ed.
But the goal is also too, toteach you intuitively how to
adjust with the patient in orthe client in front of you.
Right?
And so there's not specificprotocols.
When we listen or listen togurus or we take things at blind
face value, we're not digestingit ourselves.
(09:57):
So it's your interpretation ofthe messaging and you get to
provide that with a patient.
I.
Obviously, like regarding safetyand things like that, there's
protocols and things to avoid,right.
Um, especially like if we'redealing with a carotid artery,
we're not gonna necessarilymassage right in the carotid
artery'cause we feel intuitivelynecessary to do that.
My point is more sticking withthe safety protocols of
(10:19):
understanding, hey, you know,basic things like, like I said.
You know, with the carotidartery, and then just being
careful, just knowing theanatomy and knowing, Hey, what
are some safe things to do withthis person and not, right?
Like if somebody has a reallyhigh blood pressure of 200, over
100.
That's a, we need to be callingthe, the, their doctor, or
(10:42):
likely sending them to theemergency room This is somebody
we'd consult with their doctorbefore doing anything.
So this is not just so woo thatwe're just so disconnected from
the body.
And so where I'm going with thisis starting to trust the body.
So we have, the body has, itsits own brain, and then the
brain gets to interpret it.
And so we've seen this withresearch.
(11:03):
So Lorimer Mosley is a bigresearcher.
I.
And understanding chronic painand understanding that the body
gets to just determine what themessage is, right?
So the, the body tells us pain,pain, pain, but then the brain
gets to interpret it.
And so if we don't know that as.
Clinicians or as movementprofessionals, and we're
(11:24):
stopping every time somebody haspain, we're reinforcing this
kind of false narrative thatsomething's going off.
I think he uses the analogy of,of a fire alarm.
So the fire alarm going off whenthere's not a fire, right?
And so it's, it's important thatwe interpret those messages.
And so you're gonna see mestarting to talk more about
(11:45):
somatics and things like that.
And now if we start looking, thenext piece is gonna be
understanding Eastern Medicineand all of this.
And so Eastern medicine can beso many different things.
You might be thinking, what doesthis mean?
Well, let's put this intoperspective here.
Um, modern medicine has beenaround for about 150 years, and
Eastern medicine has been aroundfor about 3000 to 5,000 years.
(12:08):
You know, you can look up abunch of different things, but
think about that for a minute.
There is wisdom in our bodies,and I'm not saying this from a
woo perspective, it's veryimportant that I come across
scientific, but alsounderstanding the wisdom of the
people before us, thousands andthousands of years, and they've
been able to tap into somethingcalled a higher consciousness,
(12:28):
right?
So a higher consciousness iswhen we're connected higher to
the spiritual realm.
And here on earth, a lot oftimes we call like lower
consciousness is when we are sofocused on fear and scarcity and
in the world today and grabgreed, all these things.
So you see that a lot happening.
This is why we are in mass chaosright now, and what I mean by
(12:52):
that is that the more we can getpeople to understand their body
wisdom, again, these allinterconnect, like I said, with
the somatics, but.
Getting them to understand theirown internal cues and things
like that.
And so with Eastern Medicine,for example.
Say somebody comes in with, um,chronic neck or jaw pain, right?
(13:12):
And they're, they're justconstantly super, super tight.
And we keep telling them torelax.
But here's the thing, manypeople don't know how to relax.
They never went taught.
So what we're telling somebodyis almost reinforcing the shame
cycle.
They know they need to relax.
Let's.
Let's be honest.
They just don't probably knowhow.
And I was one of those people, Iwas like, why?
(13:32):
Why is everyone telling me torelax?
I don't understand.
How do I relax?
Right?
And so they don't have the toolsyet.
And so we're notpsychotherapists, right?
Unless you are apsychotherapist.
Um, but we're not.
Taking on their traumas.
We're not talking through theirtraumas with them.
We're just helping their bodyunderstand what is going on.
And this is massive.
(13:53):
This is life changing for peoplewhen they understand this.
And so much of what we do in theclinic and that I've, what I've
seen in the past 14 years withmy clients is just teaching them
to feel empowered in their body.
It's not about our ego.
And so what, like I said, withEastern medicine, so if
somebody's coming in withchronic jaw pain, yes, we still
are gonna work on the jaw.
(14:13):
We're gonna work on the upperneck, we're gonna work on the
first rib.
We're gonna do all of the thingsright?
We're gonna show them exercises,we're gonna assess the jaw,
right?
And if you're a physicaltherapist here or a
chiropractor, anybody that'sdoing body work on patients or
clients in that.
Where also the eastern medicinepart comes in is this is
(14:35):
speaking your truth.
So I'll say to somebody, whereare you not showing up
authentically as yourself?
Where are you not speaking yourtruth?
Right?
And so we're combining the twothings.
And when I say spirituality,what I mean is your inner
wisdom, right?
And so what that means isunderstanding your own cues,
understanding your own thoughtsand your own messages outside of
(14:55):
the world around us.
So it's a very.
Important thing for our health.
I believe this is why we have alot of health issues, not
blaming all health on this, buta lot of things that people
can't figure out.
Yes, sure we have muneuromuscular diseases and
things like that, but there aresome people that have.
Chronic pain and chronic illnessthat's unexplained and they
(15:16):
don't know how to interprettheir own messages to get the
care outside of them, to knowwhere to go.
'cause a lot of times what I seepeople doing is they're going
outside of them and looking andthey're just not getting
answers.
But sometimes it's sitting withyourself.
And getting people to understandthe messages.
And Eastern medicine helps guideus based on where things are in
(15:39):
the body, right?
And so, for instance, maybesomebody with, chronic tailbone
pain.
So the, that's the sacralchakra.
And in that we hold, we alsostore trauma in the pelvis.
So what are some unprocessed.
Things that they are, they maybe holding onto that they
haven't addressed.
And so another thing in thisarea too is creativity.
(16:01):
So if somebody's constantlycoming to you and they do really
well with exercises, but then itkind of keeps coming back, so we
know there's a physicalcomponent right now, we get to
go to the emotional and innerinner wisdom.
So the soul part where they getto decide.
Oh, well, you get to guide themand say, where in your life,
(16:21):
have you been creative lately?
Where have you explored acreative outlet?
And so the body gives us signsand we, and Eastern Medicine
helps us to interpret some ofthose things.
Obviously Eastern medicine is somany different things.
I'm not just breaking it down tojust these things, but in order
to bring it into Westernmedicine and into our.
Culture.
And to make it more cohesive, wehave to understand some of the
(16:43):
basic, basic stuff.
And then it kind of builds fromthere.
And I say basic because theseare things that were not taught
to me.
I've had to learn as, assomebody on the other side.
'cause I'm on my own spirituallyhealing journey.
And what that means is justunderstanding your own body,
understanding why we're here onthis earth.
And this might sound woo, but ifyou look up, there's about 85%
(17:04):
of people.
Believe in something higher.
And if we're not incorporatingthis into understanding that in,
in our healthcare system, we'remissing a big piece of people.
And this isn't, I'm not sayingreligion, we don't need to be
pushing religion or anything onthat.
But for instance, if somebody'scoming in and they're super
stressed and they believewhatever God they believe in, or
(17:24):
whatever spiritual entity theybelieve in, if it's a benevolent
force or whatever it is, how canwe get them to tap into that?
Hey, what are some prayers thatyou typically do?
Have you connected from thatstandpoint?
Right?
So getting them to understandhow that can help support their
nervous system, right?
And so if we know somethingoutside of us can help us, that
can help calm the nervoussystem, right?
(17:46):
And everybody's gonna havedifferent beliefs.
And so that's a little bit moreof the spiritual side.
And then, you know, also justunderstanding so much of diet,
right?
So the gut is so connected tothe brain, right?
And so if somebody's constantlybloated and they're having back
pain and they're anxious, right?
Well think about.
(18:06):
How the whole body workstogether.
So let's look at this for asecond.
So in the rectum is right infront of the sacrum.
And so if somebody isconstipated and they're having
chronic back pain, how can thatnot affect it?
Right?
And so the rectum can push uponthat sacrum.
And we also have, so if somebodyhas a uterus.
Um, the, the top of the uterus,we have the uterosacral
(18:28):
ligaments, so that's the uterus.
This, the ligament that connectsthe top, the uterus to the
sacrum, so it holds it up,right?
Those pelvic organs are not justsupported by the pelvic four
muscles.
They're held up by ligamentsthat hold up the pelvis or the,
the pelvic organs.
And so now you've got that kindof pulling down, and then it
(18:48):
almost pulls the lumbar spinemore into lordosis.
So you've got.
So many of these differentaspects right there, right?
So you've got the rectum, thenyou've got the, um, vagina and
uterus, and that's all pushingand that can be tugging on that
uterosacral ligament, even if,and, and that goes to, to show
too, like on different phases oftheir cycle, when are they
(19:11):
experiencing this?
And so.
I am gonna be starting toincorporate all of these things.
'cause then we're looking at itfrom a visceral component.
Another aspect is gonna be tooof understanding how the entire
body is connected.
Um, I just had a patient come inthe other day that was.
Seen three or four, maybe fivephysical therapists, and they
(19:33):
were told the whole body is notconnected, you all.
We really need to understandit's our responsibility to
understand how the body isconnected.
And so if my heel strike on myleft foot, if I'm not heel
striking or I'm not another one,I actually.
See a lot of is people notpushing off through their
forefoot, so they're not gettingthat full push off, so then
(19:56):
their calf is not pushing off.
So then if we think about howthat, we need that lymphatic
drainage to occur.
So starting maybe in the calf,if we're not, the lymph system
doesn't have its own pump, weuse our muscles to do that.
So then maybe somebody mighthave swelling in their feet.
'cause we're not pushing offefficiently through that
(20:16):
forefoot.
I find this a lot with olderclients where maybe they're not
pushing off through that area.
So then they start to shuffle,then the gait starts going off.
Then they're not getting as muchthoracic spine rotation, then
the hips have to overworkbecause we're not doing that or
their arm swinging, right?
So a lot of times people maybehold their purse on their right
side, and then they swing theirleft arm.
(20:37):
Well, now we're not getting thatright-sided rotation, right?
And so we need all of thismovement to help the body move
efficiently.
So from a biomechanicalstandpoint, from a lymphatic
standpoint, from a fascialstandpoint, from an emotional
standpoint, right?
So.
Kind of going back more toEastern medicine.
So much of it, this is stagnantenergy and so we are made of
(20:57):
energy, we are made of atoms,which, and, and understanding
how all of that intertwines.
So we do emit energy.
We study this in radiology.
We have the EMG.
Studies the brain.
We have the EKG that studies theheart, EMG, that studies the
muscle.
So these are true electricpulses that are measuring it.
And we can't deny that becauseit's in science now.
(21:19):
Right?
And so.
There's research coming out to,to show when the heart rhythm
and the brain rhythm aretogether, then we're really
feeling aligned and we're reallyin our body.
And then that's when we canconnect, um, ourselves to
feeling more calm in our nervoussystem.
And.
And so just knowing that from ascientific point of view, right?
(21:42):
This can go in so many differentways because then the cells
start to beat at a, at afrequency or vibration that
helps us heal as well.
So this isn't, woo, this isreally, you're gonna start
seeing more of this stuff startcoming up because people are not
doing well here, in the UnitedStates.
And so, you know, again, lookingat the whole, whole body, how
(22:04):
it's connected, how we look atit from a fascial standpoint.
So biomechanical, so the joints,we've got the fascia, we've got
the lymphatic system.
We've got looking at, um,somatics, so understanding our
body's internal messages.
Then we've got more of, some ofthe eastern medicine side, where
we're looking at emotions in thebody where people may be not
(22:25):
speaking their truth, where arethey not, um, expressing
themselves?
Where are they holding back?
And the body will show us inthose, in those different
patterns, looking at diet.
If somebody's chronicallybloated, that's gonna affect,
um, their brain.
Uh, one thing I didn't mentionis about 80 or so percent of the
serotonin is produced in ourgut.
So if our gut is irritated, weneed serotonin and then also
(22:48):
looking at, um, more of thevisceral organs.
So if somebody's back pain,what's going on?
What phase of their cycle?
I think so much.
We think of the phases of cycleas when somebody's menstruating,
but if you look at the lutealphase, that's when we see the
progesterone and estrogen spike.
So progesterone is more thanestrogen around that time.
So understanding how thosehormones can affect the body.
(23:11):
Right.
And so, or mid cycle right?
Estrogen's gonna spike duringovulation, and so are they
having more symptoms during thattime?
So if you're working with peoplewith that have a uterus, just
making sure that we're keepingall of these things in mind.
This might sound like a lot, butthis episode is really gonna
summarize you of what you'regonna be hearing from me in the
(23:31):
future to help your, yourclients, um, understand how the,
the full body works together,um, and.
A few other pieces on top ofthat.
I know I haven't really touchedon everything.
There's so much that I wannatalk to here.
There's so much to go through,but getting people to understand
and, and, and to be honest, somuch of this starts with us,
(23:54):
right?
So us and taking our ego out ofit.
So we've got, um, two aspects.
You've got your ego and yourhigher self.
So your higher self is basicallywho you are or.
Who you are without your ego andwhat your what your mission is
here on, on this planet, right?
Everybody has gifts and so, somuch of our lives, we, we focus
(24:14):
so much on ego, and I've seen inhealthcare and I've been here
myself, where if somebodydoesn't get better, I
immediately wanna blame them, inthe past.
And what that means is.
I was telling myself, well, ifI'm not good, I'm not a good
person.
And we have to really check ouregos at the door.
And this takes our own selfwork.
Okay?
This takes a lot of self work todo and a lot of groundedness.
(24:35):
So our own experience in thesethings, in my experience, to my
knowledge, and I'm yet to seethis, it is almost impossible to
be able to help people heal ifwe're not doing the work
ourselves.
And so it can be incrediblyhumbling.
And so if somebody's not gettingbetter, let's give them the
(24:56):
benefit of the doubt.
Yeah.
They may actually not be doingit, but why are they depressed?
Is there a lot going on at home?
Can we give them tools to helptheir nervous system?
Because a lot of times people gointo fight, flight, or freeze,
right?
And so if they're freezing.
What's going on?
Why are they freezing?
How can we help them come out ofthat freeze versus, oh, you
know, you're not doing yourstuff well, that person might
(25:18):
need some extra support.
Maybe they just need to listento somebody that you know, just
to express what's on, you know,their processing right now.
Hey, you know.
I'm, I'm just going through alot.
I'm, you know, maybe I'm caringfor aging parents or whatever
that may be.
And so then we get to take themthrough exercises to pull them
in their body and then telltheir nervous system that
(25:39):
they're safe.
Right?
So, so much of this is knowinghow to talk to the, to show the
body that it's safe because thebrain, you can't just, this is
why gratitude journals andthings like that don't work.
You can't trick your brain outof it.
You've gotta physically feel itin your body.
And so if you're grounded, it'seasier to help people and take
(25:59):
your ego out of it.
How can I show up for them?
What space can I provide?
So if you're, if you're comingin with an energy that's really
intense and, um, anxious, thattransmits, right?
And so when that happens.
We are making it less about theclient and more about us.
So what can we provide in theenvironment that helps them
(26:22):
soothe, right?
Looking at sounds, smells,colors, how are we speaking?
Are we using the same tone thatthey're using?
Are we standing over them andtalking down to them?
These are all things that tapinto our primal instincts that
tell us that we're not safe, sowe could be inadvertently
providing an un.
Safe space for somebody to healand then blaming them for not
(26:44):
getting better.
So, and I don't, I, I reallydon't believe people are doing
this intentionally.
I really wanna just bringawareness to this.
'cause I've done it in the pastand I've seen how much it can
make, um, a big difference inhow somebody heals and making
the session about the client,right?
It's an exchange of energy.
They're paying you, which ismoney.
Money is energy, and you'regiving your physical energy to
(27:05):
them.
So if they're paying and thenwe're putting our energy on
them, they're kind of.
Paying twice.
Um, so thinking of it from thatperspective, but then overall I
wanna tie in how research comesinto play, like interoception,
right?
When we understand our body'scues, when we know what the
triggers are, pulling in oursenses, understanding heart rate
(27:28):
variability, that's gonna besuper important.
That's a good way to measuresomebody's stress and get them
to start seeing it, right?
And so heart rate variabilityis.
People are doing it already,right?
They have their watches, theyhave their rings, they have the
different things, and a lot oftimes they don't, uh, know how
to interpret that data.
And so a heart rate variability,for instance, is gonna be
amazing.
(27:49):
And I, like I said, you're gonnasee a lot of stuff start
starting to come out about this.
Um, I've just been researchingit a lot and, and understanding.
The frequency side of all ofthese things.
And so what that means is thatwhen your heart rate, so say if
your heart rate, it goes up anddown and up and down and up and
down.
When we're anxious, it's beep,beep, beep, beep, beep, beep,
(28:11):
beep, beep, beep, beep.
There's less time in betweeneach heartbeat, so you're, and
so it's measured inmilliseconds, so you have less
time.
So if I have more time, beep,beep, beep, right?
I'm in a calmer state.
And so what heart ratevariability does is it kind of
takes an average of all of thosein-betweens and tells you where
(28:32):
you're at.
So if you spend most of the daywith a lower heart rate
variability, you've probablybeen in more chronic stress
because your heart rate's beengoing faster.
And now there's not specificallya subset of specifics for people
on the guidelines for this.
It's really gonna be based onthat individual.
(28:53):
Like for instance, I went backand I looked at my heart rate
variability, which I had no ideawas back in, you know, 2019 when
I was diagnosed with cancer.
It was very low.
It was around 30 milliseconds.
And now as I start doing more ofthis.
Um, grounded healing exercise,pulling myself into my body, and
again, using science to back allthis up.
(29:14):
Um, like I said, with the heartrate variability, I see now my
heart variability is closer to50 to 60.
That's a drastic difference.
And I was eating healthy and Iwas exercising right, and I was
doing all the right things.
That's what turned me to all ofthis.
I've.
Been a teacher for a physicaltherapist.
I've done the orthopedicresidencies, uh, the residency.
(29:36):
I have taken ongoing continuingeducation courses and it wasn't
really until I got sick, that'swhen I realized holy shit we're
missing so much.
And so the cool thing is you getto.
To do this.
It's in science, it's sciencebacked, right?
So there's different parts ofthe brain and different parts of
the body.
We've got the vagus nerve, soyou're gonna start seeing a lot
of stuff about the vagus nerve.
(29:57):
It's so important because thevagus nerve connects to all of
our, a majority of our visceralorgans, right?
And so it's gonna respond tostress, and so you'll see.
Sometimes people are stuck inthe sympathetic dominance.
Um, and what that means is thattheir body just cannot come out
of it.
So we have to teach them how tocome out of it, right?
(30:18):
So we're really coming at thisfrom an anatomical and
physiological point of view aswell.
And so different things.
So the, the vagus nerve is gonnabe right behind the throat as
well.
So that's why humming.
And breath work and, um,singing.
Those are gonna be good ways tokind of laughing.
Those are gonna be good ways tokind of bring that down.
(30:39):
Also, thinking about laughing,laughing's gonna release
dopamine, serotonin, andoxytocin, right?
And so we, before I would thinkwhen I talk to somebody, and
maybe we didn't, um, do as muchexercise that day, but they
still felt better.
Well think about what we justdid for them.
We helped get the.
The pharmaceuticals in yourbrain starting to work for you.
(31:01):
Right.
And so again, we're not takingit on, we're not taking on, uh,
from a mental healthperspective, but we're teaching
them about their bodies and justreinforcing those messages.
And in summary, looking at.
The whole entire body, thebiomechanics, looking at the
(31:21):
anatomy and physiology, right,especially you're gonna, like I
said, you're gonna start seeingmore about the vagus nerve
pulling people out of thatdominant fight or flight
response in order for them tofeel safe, right?
Understanding how emotions aregoing to be showing up in
different parts of the body togive us messages of.
Where to help people guide whilestill treating their physical
(31:42):
symptoms.
It's very important that we dothat because people can feel
gaslit.
Otherwise.
I've been on the other side ofit and been in incredibly
frustrated and just felt, um,lost again, understanding
fascia.
And understanding, um, morethings that are gonna be coming
out, especially HRVs, that'sgonna be a super quick and easy
one for you to be able to helppeople with.
(32:04):
So in summary, I'm reallyexcited to share this with you.
It's taken a lot for me to be soopen with my approach, but I
realize this.
Can help a lot of people and I'mso excited to be on this journey
with you to explore becausereally what this is doing is
it's also your own healingjourney as well.
And I think we can impact a lotof people and make a big
(32:24):
difference.
And I really feel aligned withthis and I truly believe this is
my life's work.
So thank you for listening, andI am also gonna tag below my
newsletter for you to be updatedon.
Any education topics or webinarsor courses or speaking
opportunities that I will be,um, a part of.
So thank you so much.
(32:45):
You've been listening to TMItalk with your host, Dr.
Mary Grinberg.
Make sure to subscribe whereveryou get your podcasts.
To learn more about Dr.
Mary, head on over to dr marygrinberg.com and make sure to
follow Dr.
Mary at Dr.
Mary PT on all social channels.
To learn more about Dr.
Mary's integrative practice forpain relief in Austin, Texas,
head on over to resilientrx.com.
(33:07):
Thanks for listening.
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