May 8, 2023 • 47 mins
PART TWO! Serial Killer Christopher Wilder's murder spree lasted only seven weeks in 1984, but those seven weeks might as well have been seven years for all that he did. Chris was a successful businessman, who had all the material things you could want. So why did he choose to be such a creeper? Listen to this week's episode to hear more!
Join us on Facebook and IG: @HARDCORETRUECRIME Web: www.crimesandconsequences.com--------------->Get ad-free early releases of each episode, plus over 170 exclusive Members Only episodes by going to Patreon.com/tntcrimes or joining our Apple Channel on the Apple Podcast App.
SOURCES:
1) Murderpedia
2) A Rage to Kill and Other True Cases by Ann Rule
3) https://allthatsinteresting.com/christopher-wilder
4) https://criminalminds.fandom.com/wiki/Christopher_Wilder
5) https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/mass-murderer-wilder-commits-suicide
6) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiHK-G1QsHs
7) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmBXz0Emm38
Join us on Facebook and IG: @HARDCORETRUECRIME Web: www.crimesandconsequences.com--------------->Get ad-free early releases of each episode, plus over 170 exclusive Members Only episodes by going to Patreon.com/tntcrimes or joining our Apple Channel on the Apple Podcast App.
SOURCES:
1) Murderpedia
2) A Rage to Kill and Other True Cases by Ann Rule
3) https://allthatsinteresting.com/christopher-wilder
4) https://criminalminds.fandom.com/wiki/Christopher_Wilder
5) https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/mass-murderer-wilder-commits-suicide
6) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiHK-G1QsHs
7) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmBXz0Emm38
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This episode may contain content of agraphic nature, including descriptions of physical and
sexual violence against adults, children,and animals. Listener discretion is advised.
Hi everyone, I'm Talia and I'mTanya, and together we are Crimes and
Consequences, a true crime podcast.Hi Tanya, Hi Talia. Welcome back,
(00:38):
everybody. This is our second episode. I'm Chris Wilder. Part two,
Part two, Part two, Parttwo, and it gets really bad.
My voice is better, you're right, is better, not coughing as
much, but it's still a littlepainful. If you haven't done so already,
I would love to have you,guys, subscribe or follow on your
(01:00):
favorite app, whatever app you're listeningto us on, and if you haven't
listened to episode one, I wouldrecommend it so then you might know what's
going on. You might be alittle confused, slightly, Taliyah. Before
we get into part two, Yeah, I think we should give a shout
out to our number one fan,Dave. Dave, who's probably walking his
(01:22):
dog right now. We adore you, Dave, Yes, we do.
And I know you're excited for parttwo, So let's get into it.
Yeah, let's do it, allright, So, as I was saying
in Part one, Chris was nowon the run. He was in Georgia,
but he didn't stay there very long. He took that Chrysler he's driving
and he headed towards Texas. Sonumber on Thursday, March twenty second,
(01:49):
in nineteen eighty four, and that'swhen Chris first saw twenty four year old
Terry Diane Walden in the parking lotof her college. Diane was married,
she had a four year old daughter. She was beautiful, she had blonde
hair. Many men noticed her becauseshe was just gorgeous. And of course
(02:12):
that is what Chris's ms is,to find pretty girls and see if they
want to be models. Earlier thatday, she'd been approached by a man
who told her she could be amodel, could be a model, She
laughed, later told her husband aboutYeah, hey, guess what, somebody
thought I was pretty enough, youknow, to be a model. But
(02:34):
she'd also rejected the guy. She'sin college. She's not out for modeling.
Chris moved on after being turned downby Terry. He kept on his
journey and he ended up pulling overoff the highway into this motel in Winnie,
Texas. He was still using hispartner's name and credit card by the
way, Okay, but he couldn'tget Terry out of his head. And
(02:59):
the next day, and this isa Friday, he backtracked and he made
his way to Beaumont, Texas,which is where Terry was. Terry really
didn't think much about the encounter besidesbeing flattered, right, I mean,
she's busy with a four year old, she's married, she's in college.
(03:19):
That day she took her daughter todaycare, she was driving to Cougar.
It was a new car that hurtand her husband had just purchased. And
then she was headed off to studywith some friends because the day to quiz
for college. She picked up afew things at the Beaumont shopping mall,
and she planned to be home inplenty of time to pick up her daughter
(03:39):
from daycare. It was just herregular routine, nothing unique. Terry's husband
was a first to realize something wasreally wrong. Friday evening, his daughter's
daycare called to say that Terry hadn'tcame to pick up their child. And
that's when he was that really worried. And he remembered about the guy who
(04:04):
offered to help her be a modeland claimed to be part of a modeling
agency, and to him, Ithink that was a creeper factor. Yeah,
I mean right, if you're aguy and someone's telling your wife that,
I would just assume that it's away to pick up my wife.
He called the police and the police, and eventually the FBI took Terry's disappearance
(04:28):
seriously from the beginning, I know, it doesn't happen very often in our
stories, and they organize a gridsearch of the area around them all because
they were wondering if perhaps Terry didn'ttell her husband that she agreed to maybe
meet the guy at the mall again, or maybe he's still there pursuing other
(04:54):
Okay, law enforcement authorities knew thatChris had left Florida and Georgia in this
Chrysler, and they got a reportabout a man driving Chrysler and he had
a beard, and there was awoman in the passenger seat. But the
(05:15):
person that reported it it was actuallya teenage girl, and she said that
she couldn't really see that much,but it kind of seemed like the woman
was leaning her head against the windowChrysler. This car had turned off through
some rice fields, and that wasunusual and then this young witness said,
(05:36):
I saw it leader again. Itwas coming back along the rice Field road,
but I couldn't see the woman anymore. A massive search for Terry began
in that area, but they didn'tfind her for three days. Oh no,
then they did. Her body wasfound bound with rope really tight.
(06:01):
She was I hate saying it likethis, but she was bob based down
in a canal near the road wherethe girl had last seen her. Oh
really, she was just in thewater. She'd gone to the surface.
An autopsy revealed that Terry had beenstabbed three times in the breast, and
(06:23):
the thrust were so powerful that theblade had gone completely through her body.
Oh my god. Really that mustbe a big knife too, right.
Wow. They do believe that shewould have lived, believe it or not,
because it didn't hit any organs ifshe would have gotten medical help soon
(06:44):
enough, but instead she bled out. She didn't die from drowning. They
couldn't tell she'd been raped because justfrom being in the canal for that long
in the water, there was notraces of seminal fluid. They believed she
died the after knew she was abducted, and also Terry's car was missing from
the parking lot where she was at. Every cop in the South knew now
(07:09):
that Chris was a killing machine.They knew it was him, and he
was hurdling himself through the United States, at least in the South, and
very obviously slick in his approach tothese victims, that he was able to
take them away from what you woulddeem a safe place and nobody heard anything
(07:30):
because there's no witnesses to any ofthis, except for the fact to talk
to you about a young girl seeingthem in a car, But nobody heard
any of these abductions. Back inSouth Florida, detectives and FBI agents,
they're just learning more and more aboutChris. He used this idea of a
modeling agent see and this fashion photographerRuth apparently for much longer time than they
(07:55):
knew. There were many women orgirls, young girl girls like teens,
that came forward and said they'd beenapproached by a man with a beard.
He used a number of different aliases, but he always had a business card
with him that made him seem reputable, so I guess he had different business
(08:16):
cards with different names. Sometimes hewould actually take photos of the young women,
like when he met them. Yeah, I'm gonna take it back to
the agency. Yeah, exactly,that's what I'm guessing. Agents police force
ended up trying to map out whereChris started, where he was going.
They had a command center now andit just showed him starting to go across
(08:39):
America. So he went from Texasto Oklahoma City. Somehow they can trace
this. They know that he spenta night at a motel there and then
on Sunday afternoon he was seen atPenn Square Mall, although no one really
reported anything about it until Monday.And I'm let me explain. Suzanne Wendy
(09:01):
Logan. She's twenty, she's anew bride, and this is spring of
nineteen eighty four. She was beautiful, a blonde. He seemed to really
like blondess and she wanted to bea model. She put together her own
portfolio with various photographs of herself,and somehow she met Chris beforehand and then
(09:26):
or got his number and met himat the mall on March twenty fifth with
her portfolio. Chris, He's thisis perfect, perfect, right, exactly
exactly. Susanne ended up becoming amissing person. There were people that witnessed
(09:46):
her at the mall that afternoon,talking to a bearded man who had a
camera around his neck. Chris hadobviously kidnapped her, and he was heading
north with his helpless victim inte.He drove up I one thirty five to
Newton, Kansas, so again he'smaking his way around the United States.
(10:07):
There he found a motel and hebrought Suzanne into it and he beat her.
Oh and he tortured it. Ohand she wasn't as lucky as Jill
had been. It was the nextday a fisherman found her body. It
was bound on the shores of MilfordLake, but it took days to positively
(10:28):
identify her due to the beating.Yeah, yeah, I mean, he's
getting more and more angry, Tanya. He's like totally defiling her face.
His rage is building. He inflictedpain that was beyond the imagination of most
of us. Suzanne's beautiful hair hadbeen cut short. Oh and he shaved
(10:52):
her pubic hair off. She'd beencut with a sharp knife, but like
teased, you know, Okay,yeah, bitten, stabbed through the left
brass, but that didn't kill her. Chris was using one of the credit
cards she had had on her andthat's how the police in the FBI are
able to kind of track his whereabouts, but there are always one step behind.
(11:16):
I mean, when you're using creditcards and stuff, you're going to
be behind. The investigators were reallyfrustrated he's managed by this point. I
don't know if you've kept count,but he's abducted seven women since January,
damn, and only one escaped.Chris turned up in the West after Suzanne's
body was found. He was drivingthat cougar that I told you was stolen
(11:41):
from Terry and he was in Coloradoon Route seventy. And now we're only
on March twenty nine, so he'sjust wow, he's in Colorado, all
yeah, wow, and he wasready for yet another victim. He showed
up at the Mason Mall that Thursday. He had his camera around him and
(12:01):
he was looking for a particular type. He was looking for the cowgirl type
model. He went around to otherpeople at the mall and said he was
a photographer and he was on aspecific job and needed a girl that looked
like she was dressed like a cowgirlat the mall. Okay, like she's
just gonna show up just like acowgirl. I don't know. Maybe so
(12:24):
Cheryl Benaventura, she was eighteen.She was exactly what he had in mind.
Although she never heard of Chris Wilder. She went to the mall dressed
as the perfect part for his nextvictim, completely unaware. She was wearing
a white sweatshirt with a Cherokee logo, blue jeans, cowboy boots, and
she had a lot of chunky goldjewelry. She went there to go shopping,
(12:46):
but she didn't plan on staying long. She's gonna meet a friend soon
and the two were gonna go toAspen for skiing. Oh fuck, I
know all she needed, which isa few little extra items for her trip.
So it was in a deal.She had thick blond hair, slender
figure, perfect figure. She lookedlike a model. Somewhere in that mall,
(13:09):
Cheryl met Chris and he gave herthat story about you could be a
model. He claimed he was froma big Denver agency, and we know
she walked away with him. Cheryl'sfriend waited for her, and she waited.
There was this pre arranged area wherethey were going to meet. This
spot. Somehow Chris managed to convinceCheryl not to go meet her friend there's
(13:35):
evidence that Cheryl did go with Chriswillingly, as the pair was seen in
Silverton, and that's a little miningtown on the way to Durango, Colorado,
that was one hundred miles south ofthe mall where she was last seen.
They stopped at a restaurant, andCheryl's grandpa had worked there before,
so she knew that restaurant. Shetalked with the owner. That's how they
(13:58):
know she was actually lay there becausehe remembered talking to Cheryl. He knew
Cheryl, and Cheryl said she wasreally excited about becoming a model. Oh
no. A man with blue eyesa neatly clipped beard was beside her,
and he was smiling as she's justso enthusiastic about this. They grabbed a
(14:18):
bunch of donuts and then they movedon. He's very bold. Yeah that
I know. He doesn't even givea fuck. Now he's getting away with
it. He's on the run whatever. For some reason, Chris didn't do
anything to Cheryl. For a fewdays, they were spotted in a few
locations in Colorado and Arizona. Theyhung out together. M I don't know
(14:41):
what story is weird. The nightof March thirtieth. They checked into a
motel in Page, Arizona as amarried couple. Weird, what the fuck
is going on? Shortly after dawn, someone noticed Chris as he whisked the
blonde woman out of his room,Cheryl, and rushed her to his car
like they're like something weird, somethingweird. From that point on, there
(15:07):
were no more sightings of Cheryl andthis man twice rage Chris. Cheryl's family
kept up the search for her,but she vanished somewhere along the trail from
her hometown to Las Vegas. Theylost her. There's just no trace of
(15:28):
her anymore. Chris wasn't done.He continued on. He had his next
victim, seventeen year old Michelle Korfman. She was pretty young. She had
parked the brand new car father hadgiven her at the Meadows Shopping Mall in
Las Vegas. And I always tellmy kids be weird. As I got
girls at the mall, right,talk to anyone and stranger danger, stranger
(15:52):
danger, seriously. And this isLas Vegas. It was April Fool's Day.
Michelle and some of her other friends, they're young women. We're at
the mall and there was this guy. He was a fashion photographer and he
was looking for models. He hada portfolio out of photographs he'd taken of
really beautiful women, and he showedall these really pretty teenage girls this.
(16:17):
He had an expensive camera, hehad a leather case, and he promised
that the potential models would get agood fee up front, and more important,
that he was working with the topmodeling agencies out there. Even so,
three of the girls were like no, yeah, no, thank you.
They didn't want to leave them allwith him, which is what he
(16:40):
wanted them to do. He wasgoing to try to get a group of
girls wow to go to his studio. He didn't seem angry or disappointed when
they didn't want to go. Hejust sat on this bench nearr stage And
just so you know, there wasa contest going on. It was is
(17:00):
I believe a young girls, andI think younger than teens modeling contests not
modeling? What do they call it? What are those shows? Like a
fashion show or something? Beauty?Beauty thank you? I guess yeah,
like you see on TV. Yeah, so if you think about it,
there's this younger beauty pageant and he'strying to set up like he's a professional
(17:25):
because he's going to get people thatwant that are interested in that sort of
stuff to come around. And he'sgot his card, he's got his camera,
portfolio, portfolio. Oh yeah,it seems really legit. Right.
One of the mothers in attendance,her daughter was a professional. That's what
I'm calling it. What it helpedme out, Tanya. What are those
(17:48):
mothers the pageant? The pageant moms? Is that what they're calling She was
one of those, and she's takingpictures of her daughter on the stage,
and she actually captured a picture ofChris. I've seen that picture. Yes
see I knew you knew this case. Yeah, I saw that picture.
Yeah, it's out there, yea, included with the story. So this
(18:12):
beauty contest, when it was over, he just kind of creeped everybody out
by lingering around. Several people sawMichelle talking to him, and then the
two of them headed slowly towards theexit. So there's this, I mean
this is there's a group of peopleand right, and they see them walking
(18:33):
towards the exit and the Michelle's goneher price car, brand new, perfect
condition, that was found days laterin a parking lot behind Caesar's Palace in
Las Vegas. Chris laughed Las Vegas, and Michelle was with him at least
part of the day. By Aprilfourth, Chris was alone again and he's
now driving that cougar. Although itwasn't known at the time, Michelle was
(18:59):
dead. Eventually, her unclaimed unidentifiedbody lay in the Los Angeles County Morgue.
Oh damn Los Angeles on June fifteenth, when Nevada and California authorities finally
connected her corpse with a beautiful seventeenyear old who had vanished from Las Vegas.
(19:19):
She'd been missing two and a halfmonths. Oh how awful for the
madied all that makes me so say, I know he made the FBI's ten
most wanted list. Wow, everybodywas looking for him. But this fucker,
he just seemed to get away everything. Lucky the tenth victim may have
(19:42):
lived because she didn't argue or threatenedhim. She played helpless and that probably
is what saved her life. InApril fourth, Tina Marie Rocicico, she's
sixteen, was headed to apply fora job at a Delhi in Torrance,
and that's one of the many citiesthat were South Los Angeles. Yes,
(20:08):
my friend Jody oh, she livedin toy She lived in Torre. You
go. Tina wasn't looking forward tothe job because he just paid minimum wage.
But she she's like, probably,like I need a job. I
guess yeah, because she was witha single mom and her mom needed help,
so okay, you gotta do whatyou gotta do. She was a
(20:30):
survivor. She wanted to pull herown weight. When she encountered Chris,
she was just easy prey for him. He came up to the outside of
the deli and he's not frightening atall. He's just an old man with
a beard and friendly blue eyes.Okay, old, yeah, I know,
he's probably like or something right,and now my like creeper radar goes
(20:52):
off. But she's young. Hetold her that she was just the right
type for an ad campaign for acompany was working for. She saw his
camera and he had all this,he had extra gear with him, and
she felt comfortable. She was alittle bit different than some of the other
girls. She was a little bitoverweight, and she wasn't used to somebody
(21:15):
being told she could be a model. And she was really flattered and intrigued,
and he offered her a hundred dollarsif she would go to the beach
near Santa Monica with him and justpose for some ad shots. To her,
there was a lot of money,so she agreed. At first it
was fun, until later she realizedthat the wind like it was getting chilly.
(21:37):
The wind is blowing, and therewas only those two left on the
beach. Like yeah, And shetold Chris, you know, I got
to get home. My mom's waiting, but he kept persisting that she stay,
and then he got angry with her. He told her your modeling days
(21:59):
are over, and he dragged herover to his car. He pushed her
into the backseat and he held herdown as he tied her arms behind her
back, and then he looped thisrope between her ankles, so she's being
hog tied basically. Next thing sheknew, the car's racing away from the
beach and headed outside of Torrents.She's just trapped there for six hours.
(22:23):
Oh, that's terrifying. And thenthe car slowly went to a stop.
Chris and Tina were still in thecougar, although now it had different plates.
It had some new Mexico plates thatChris had stolen. Chris had been
stealing along the way, credit cards, other things in an effort to hide
his identity, but he still wasusing his partner's credit card. What a
(22:47):
dumb ass. He headed out ofLos Angeles County to El Centro, California.
Do you know that? I haveyou been there? And he chucked
into a motel. He had aquick little nap and then he hit the
road again with Tina in the car. They crossed the desert into Arizona,
and then he went north to Prescott, Arizona, which I've been to.
(23:10):
I have. They stayed the nighton a motel there and then something changed.
Maybe it was the fact that hesaw himself on the ten most wanted
lists. Nobody really knows. Butthere's no sightings, no motel receipts,
nothing for four days straight. Andkeep in mind, they're on his tail,
(23:30):
they're just behind him him. Duringthose four days, Tina was subjected
to multiple rapes. She didn't fighthim. She was just very passive during
all these encounters. She listened towhat Chris said, listen to talk about
his fantasy, gross his obsessions,his hopes, his dreams, and somehow
(23:56):
her just listening and carrying a pretendingto care about him. Sue them.
He just needed someone to talk toTaliah, right, someone just don't understand
it, just to listen. Hecan call what is it betterhelp dot com?
I don't know, whatever. Whatever. For whatever reason, Kristen killed
(24:17):
Tina. That's why I'm guessing hedidn't, but I don't know. He
kept her with him and he headedeast. It didn't take long before Tina
developed Stockholm syndrome. Oh no,yeah, and you know what that is.
Yes, for those that don't,it's an intricate psychological process that basically
turned your mind inside out. Inother words, she was brainwashed. She
(24:42):
was kidnapped, terrorized, rape,taken far from home. The fact she
survived is amazing, and Chris wasbeing kind of her. Is it sounds
weird to say? It does?When someone goes through that and then eventually
their captor is nice and gentle anduses a soft voice. It can have
(25:03):
It can create that Stockholm syndrome.It didn't kill her. She hoped he
wouldn't, and she thought if shejust listened to him and did whatever he
asked, she'd survive. But asI said, things began to change.
They crossed into the Indiana state line. By that point Tina was prepared to
do whatever Chris ass of her.He convinced her that even when she was
(25:23):
out of the car and away fromhim, he could still hurt her.
In order to stay alive, she'dhave to follow his orders. In Gary,
Indiana, on April tenth, Chrisordered Tina to go to the Westlake
Mall and find him a girl no, yes, no yes. He gave
her script oh that she had touse to get the victim to go with
(25:48):
her. Basically, the script wentalong the lines of offer a pretty girl
a job, a modeling job,and get her to the car. And
Chris just sat there and waited untilsixteen year old donnat Well arrived with Tina.
They got into the car, andthe cure sped away. Tina was
no longer the prime captive. Donnetthad taken her place. She was outbound,
(26:14):
gagged with doc tape in the backseatof the car. Can you imagine
how Donnatt felt wondering about Tina.Yeah, I'd be like, what the
hell the girl that led her there? Tina was in some sort of trance,
Like I said, it was likeStockholm syndrome. It's just she wouldn't
help Donna she didn't look at Donna. So now you have the FBI and
(26:36):
the police and they're looking at creditcards, partners, credit cards, trying
to find information. They know hislast years in Arizona, and they were
concentrating their efforts there. But they'rebehind him and they didn't know what his
next move was because he'd been zigzagging. He'd crossed so you know,
Tanya six thousand miles before they trackedhim. Holy shit, he did go
(27:00):
from California to Gary, Indiana.I mean, that's like all the way
across the country, started in Floridaand started in the place. On April
eleventh, the credit card that they'dbeen tracking was used at a motel in
southeast of roch Haster, New York. Jeez, he's in New York.
They went there, No one recalledseeing the guy that used that. They
(27:23):
couldn't describe who it was, andthey're behind him still. That same day,
a tractor mechanic was driving on atwo lane road in the woods near
penn Yan, New York. Hewas lost and he was about to turn
around when he saw this young womanrunning towards them. She was almost naked,
(27:44):
her breasts were red with blood.He stopped his truck, jumped out,
and he helped her into the passengerseat, and then he took her
to the hospital. Donnat survived.Wow, that was Donnat shit. Stab
wounds to her chest, oh jeeze, oh my god. By only luck
(28:04):
Okay, they didn't pierce her vitalorients and she was eventually able to talk
to the FBI agents. So hehad taken her to the woods, half
naked, stabbed her and left herfor dead. But she didn't die.
And I love that part. Iknow me too. It happened so infrequently
in our story. No not,unfortunately, happened enough. The FBI agents
(28:29):
gave her mug shots, and ofcourse she identifies Chris. He'd gone from
Florida to Georgia, Louisiana, Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado,
Utah, Nevada, California, Arizona, Indiana, Ohio, and now
he was somewhere south of Lake Ontario, between Buffalo and Syracuse, New York.
(28:51):
Jeez, it was a lot.To our non US listeners, it's
a lot. That's a fucking,that's a lot of driving. Donnette's statements
shocked police when she told him thatChris had a girl with him like,
oh yeah, that's right, andthat's this girl was an accomplice. She
(29:11):
told them about how this girl sheknew as Tina, came to the mall
Gary, Indiana when she was applyingfor a job. Tina lied to Donatt
to get her out to the carwhere Chris was waiting. She described what
Tina looked like. So she's aboutsixteen, pretty put, a little bit
plump, and when she followed Tinaoutside the mall, she'd been led to
(29:33):
that cougar and then of course theman with a beard he pulled out a
gun's it was a three fifty sevenmagnum and that's how eventually he was able
to get her in the trunk,and then he bound her hands and feet.
Donett was subjected to electric shock torture, along with a lot of other
(29:55):
abuses while Tina was there in theroom. Again. She'd been bound and
gagged during the time that she wastraveling hog Tide in the backseat, and
she was hidden beneath the rack ofclothing Chris had strung up. She believed
that escaping was hopeless. At night, she would be hustled between different motel
(30:17):
rooms because they were always moving aroundand she was bound most of the time.
She recalled that they went through NiagaraFalls and that Chris and Tina got
out to look at the falls.Oh damn. She was in the backseat
of the car. He was soconfident, he completely controlled Tina. It's
(30:41):
an invisible tether, yeah, butit's in her mind. On April twelfth,
in the early morning, everybody wokeup and Chris turned on the television.
Tina's mom was on the screen.She was on Good Morning America,
and she was begging for any informationout there regarding her missing daughter. This
seemed to spook Chris because that's whenhe panicked and he took Tine on her
(31:07):
and shoved them like into the carreally fast. He drove to this narrow,
isolated road. That's the road thatthe tractor mechanic eventually found her on.
She knew he was going to killher. She knew that's the end.
But she was blindfolded and bound andgagged. He took her out of
the car and he told her towalk a certain way and keep walking.
(31:33):
She could sense when they had walkedthrough some woods into an open field,
and he forced her to the dampground. He clamped one hand over her
mouth, and he pinched her noseshut with the other but she tossed and
she turned her head back and forth. I mean she's trying to live,
yes, And then it felt asif he hit her really hard in the
(31:56):
chest and twice in the back.But she blind folded, and the adrenaline's
rushing, and she didn't realize thatshe'd been stabbed until she could feel this
warm, wetness dripping down her herblood. She forced herself to lay perfectly
still and take really shallow breaths andtry not to breathe as much as possible.
(32:21):
She wanted Chris to think up.Obviously she was dead. She could
hear him standing over her. Hewas breathing really heavy, and then finally
she heard the sound of footsteps walkingaway from her. Oh my god,
it must have been terrified. Oh. I can't imagine how with your adrenaline
pumping, your heart is just pounding, how do you breathe shallow breaths?
(32:45):
It's impossible. I don't know howI would be able to do that in
that kind of state. No,I can't even do it at like a
kid's too many kids around, LikeI mean him re ever tried it'd be
insanity. Eventually, when she feltit was safe, she took the blindfold
off, but she had to doit basically by trying to rub it because
(33:07):
she was still yes, and becauseof the blood it was possible for her
to slide her wrists out of thebonds. Yeah, and then she was
eventually able to untie her ankles andrun like the wind. No, she
was still really disoriented, but thatsounded good, Daniels. I mean,
she's been stabbed. Yeah, she'slike and she has no idea where she's
(33:30):
at, so she's trying to run. She's staggering out of the woods as
best she can. You ever ranand staggered at the same time. I
don't run. You haven't been drunkenough. I've ran and staggered at the
same time. It's not pretty.But that's when she was found, Yeah,
(33:51):
by the tractor mechanic. She toldthe FBI everything she knew, but
they still didn't know where Chris wasgoing. He could be anywhere, Yeah,
he really could, and he's notdone tanyack. His next victim is
Bath Dodge. She's a thirty threeyear old wife, mother, and Sunday
school teacher. She didn't fit hisprofile in any way, shape or form,
(34:14):
except that she's a female. Hesaw her in the East View Mall
near Victor, New York, andshe pulled up in her gold nineteen eighty
two Pontiac Firebird. She was goingto meet a friend for lunch, and
Tina and Chris waited an hour forher to go in, have lunch and
then come back to her car.That's when Tina sprung into action and approached
(34:38):
Bath, saying she needed help.Tina lured her back to the car where
Chris was waiting, and then heordered Bath at gunpoint to toss the keys
to Tina. They immediately went toa gravel pit where he made Bath get
out of the car and he shother in the bath. Why just because
(35:01):
I think he's just losing it,man, I lost it. They left
behind the cougar and hopped in thePontiac, and now they had a new
car. There you go in newcar. Best body was found only a
few hours after she died, andso was Yeah, so was the cougar
that had once belonged to Terry.Remember it took only a short time for
(35:22):
investigators to just have this national widealert out for Best missing car and I
mean, we're talking about a stolengold Firebird, so that should get some
attention. Yeah. You think howmany gold Firebirds were there in nineteen eighty
four, and there's probably a lot, but it does stand out, Yeah,
it does stand out. Shortly afternine pm that nine, Tina was
(35:45):
in shock. Chris had decided todrive into the airport access road in Boston,
and she could tell you he wasfollowing these signs to the Logan Airport.
She thought, Okay, I'm goingto die. This is it?
Oh really he's yeah, he's killedmultiple people now she knows this. Instead
(36:07):
of killing her like she thought wouldhappen, he pulled out are you right
for this? A thick chunk ofbills and he handed it to her,
telling her to buy a ticket toLos Angeles. What ye Wow? She
doesn't disbelieve for a few moments,and then she got out of the car
and she bought a ticket and sheheaded home. Wow, are you kidding
(36:27):
me? On a red eye flight? Damn. He dumped her off at
the airport and told to go homeand gave her the money for the ticket.
Shit crazy, that's crazy. Threethousand miles away from New York State,
Tina took a cab from the LaxAirport to her Mosa Beach. She
was almost home, but she didn'tcall her mom. She didn't call her
(36:49):
boyfriend or the police. Instead,she wandered into the shop they had sexy
laundry and started picking out underwear.She's just so traumatized. She's been so
traumatized, and we don't know allthe details of what she went through through
all of this, and she wasstill under his control. At some point,
(37:13):
she's looking at underwear and during thisbizarre shopping spree, Tina walked up
to the clerk at the counter andblurted out, I've been kidnapped. Wow.
But before the clerk could stop her, she left. She ended up
going to the police department. Huh, and they questioned her. She looked
at them with eyes of shock.For the record, she is not normal.
(37:37):
She's in a state of shock.And she said, quote, I've
been with a madman. She wastaken to the hospital. She had physical
wounds. Her breasts bore peculiar darkbruises that doctor said had came from multiple
electric shocks. She lost a lotof way, She looked exhausted, and
(38:01):
the worst part was the psychological damage. A psychiatrist questioned Tina gently, trying
to draw out just the top layerof the horror she'd been through, saying,
quote, she'd been terrorized, farbeyond ordinary threats to someone's life.
(38:22):
Eventually she told the police everything.On that Friday. That very day,
Tina had walked into the police department. The man who released her, Chris,
was on the prowl. Still therewas a nineteen year old girl in
when him Massachusetts. Her card stalledbeside the road and she was sitting in
(38:44):
it, and he stopped, Albert, what are gentlemen? Do you need
a ride? She said, yeah, sure, He said, I'll take
you into town. We'll get thistaken care of. Eventually she realized that
he wasn't heading the right direction,and she glanced at him in to also
realize something else. He looked familiarto her. Oh no, he looked
(39:04):
like somebody she'd seen on TV andon these news bulletins. She actually realized
she was sitting with Chris Wilder.No, no, no. They came
to a stop sign, and obviouslyChris slows down, and this girl pushes
open the car door and gets out. She hit the ground running, didn't
(39:29):
look back and ran to this porchof a nearby house. Of course,
he's driving, realizes this and hespeeds off. He's disappearing down the road.
She's pounding on this door. Andsometime that Friday morning, Chris crossed
over to New Hampshire and he's headedto Colebrook. He was only eight miles
(39:51):
from the Canadian border. The worldwas closing in on him, and he
pulled into this gas station. It'sabout one thirty on April thirteenth. He
got out of this firebird and hewalked around casually, acting like everybody else,
put some gas in his car,went to go pay the cashier,
(40:12):
and he asked, you know,how far is the Canadian border from here?
Just curious, just scarious. Butthat day Chris's luck ran out.
Two New Hampshire State troopers were payingtheir tab for lunch in a little restaurant
just down the street and Quilbor itonly has twelve hundred people. It's a
(40:34):
little town. And there's this firebirdthat's gold yeah. And the stranger there,
this trooper, his name was Leo. He went by Chuck and his
partner Wayne. They spotted the firebirdat the gas pump. These two police
officers. They were pretty confident thiswas Chris, and they parked across the
(40:57):
street just to get a good lookat him. When he walked to his
car. He was the right age, right height. He looked like the
guy they'd been looking for, buthe seemed really calm for somebody that was
on America's did Most Wanted list.The two cops eventually went to the gas
station and they called out to Chrisas he was approaching the car. Hey,
(41:17):
hey, hey, wait a minute, we just want to ask you
a couple of questions. Hang on. Chris looked at him for an instant,
and Chris brinted for the Firebird andone of the police officers drew his
gun, and almost in slow motion, they noticed Chris pull out his three
fifty seven magnum and his oh,holding it in his hand. One of
(41:38):
the officers literally leapt on top ofChris through the driver's door of the Pontiac
because he needed into the Firebird.There was a struggle and both men were
fighting, and then there was thisloud boom. Oh no, well you
know who had the gun. Yeah. The one officer kept his gun pointed
(41:58):
at the gold Firebird and he's whyhe's just watching in shock. His partner
just falls back toward him in thisawful stumbling gait. He screams out,
I'm hurt and there's blood. He'snow limping. Oh no, back to
the police car, and there's nomovement in Chris's car. But the detective
(42:22):
who's not shot isn't taking any chances. Yeah, because only one shot has
gone off and his partner got it. Then suddenly there's another shot. Chris
shot himself. What yep with histhree fifty seven Magno, oh my god,
right in the heart, blue apart. Oh shit, I did not
(42:45):
see that coming. Yes, hedid it, right in the heart.
When Chris shot himself, it actuallyinjured the other officer. What critically injured
him? Damn? It passed herChris's body front back and then penetrated this
trooper's chest. That's crazy. Itjust missed his liver by an inch.
(43:07):
A number of items were recovered fromChris's car, including the gun, ammunition,
handcuffs, rolls of duct tape,rope, a sleeping bag, his
business partner's credit card and he wasstill using that. A homemade electrical cord
that was used to torture some ofhis Victims And you know that book the
(43:28):
Collector. Oh yeah, we talkedabout the end of another episode in which
a man keeps a woman in thebasement against her will until she dies.
He had that there. It appearedhe'd read it multiple times. A lot
of the victims families were really upset, obviously by Chris's death, and they
(43:51):
want to know exactly what happened totheir daughters, and they didn't. Sherry
Bana Ventura's body was eventually found onMay third. The remains of Beth Canyon,
Rosario Gonzalez, and Colleen Osborne theywere never found, never found of
(44:13):
all the terrible things Chris did,leaving these families just wondering. I mean
it, it was horrible and whathe did, what he did all of
us, is fucking horrible. AfterChris's death, the parents of Rosario Gonzalez,
they went to Chris's property and theydecided they wanted to see if their
missing daughter was buried there. Theygot arrested four members four members of the
(44:37):
family for trespassing. They filed aclaim against him for fifty million dollars,
but they didn't win. And that'sthe story. What the hell? Yeah,
And I told you before. Iread a bunch of books on this,
and the truth is, we don'treally know what happened to a lot
of these girls because only Chris knowsand he to get with him to the
(45:00):
grave. We only know really whathappened when Tina became involved. And because
yeah, so that is the storyof Wow Wilder Damn he was crazy.
And keep in mind, if hedidn't listen to part one, he lived
in Australia for a while. Yeah, he was all like he literally was
(45:22):
all over the place. He wasall over the place, and yeah he
didn't do we know he raped atleast one multiple people in Australia. So
did he commit murder there, Wedon't know. Probably, yeah, really
allegedly. Well thanks to Leo,thank you, and I want to thank
everybody for taking the time to listento this episode. If you like this
(45:45):
and you want some more that aren'tmade public, you can go to patreon
dot com slash t NT crimes andthat is that would be the Letters T
and T and we release one aweek for our subscribers that is not given
(46:06):
to the rest of the public,and you get the weekly public episode early
release and add free. Absolutely don'thave to listen to this damn commercially or
spend time fast forward. That's true. That's true. You can also get
the same stuff if you are listeningon the Apple podcast by just hitting subscribe.
(46:28):
We also have a website, Crimesand Consequences dot com. We have
Facebook, Instagram at Hardcore True Crimeand that's about it. Yeah, thank
you guys for putting up with myvoice because throughout this whole episode it's slowly
going going, gone away. Well, thanks again, and until our next
(46:49):
episode, don't kill each other.Bye bye,
This episode may contain content of agraphic nature, including descriptions of physical and
sexual violence against adults, children,and animals. Listener discretion is advised.
Hi everyone, I'm Talia and I'mTanya, and together we are Crimes and
Consequences, a true crime podcast.Hi Tanya, Hi Talia. Welcome back,
(00:38):
everybody. This is our second episode. I'm Chris Wilder. Part two,
Part two, Part two, Parttwo, and it gets really bad.
My voice is better, you're right, is better, not coughing as
much, but it's still a littlepainful. If you haven't done so already,
I would love to have you,guys, subscribe or follow on your
(01:00):
favorite app, whatever app you're listeningto us on, and if you haven't
listened to episode one, I wouldrecommend it so then you might know what's
going on. You might be alittle confused, slightly, Taliyah. Before
we get into part two, Yeah, I think we should give a shout
out to our number one fan,Dave. Dave, who's probably walking his
(01:22):
dog right now. We adore you, Dave, Yes, we do.
And I know you're excited for parttwo, So let's get into it.
Yeah, let's do it, allright, So, as I was saying
in Part one, Chris was nowon the run. He was in Georgia,
but he didn't stay there very long. He took that Chrysler he's driving
and he headed towards Texas. Sonumber on Thursday, March twenty second,
(01:49):
in nineteen eighty four, and that'swhen Chris first saw twenty four year old
Terry Diane Walden in the parking lotof her college. Diane was married,
she had a four year old daughter. She was beautiful, she had blonde
hair. Many men noticed her becauseshe was just gorgeous. And of course
(02:12):
that is what Chris's ms is,to find pretty girls and see if they
want to be models. Earlier thatday, she'd been approached by a man
who told her she could be amodel, could be a model, She
laughed, later told her husband aboutYeah, hey, guess what, somebody
thought I was pretty enough, youknow, to be a model. But
(02:34):
she'd also rejected the guy. She'sin college. She's not out for modeling.
Chris moved on after being turned downby Terry. He kept on his
journey and he ended up pulling overoff the highway into this motel in Winnie,
Texas. He was still using hispartner's name and credit card by the
way, Okay, but he couldn'tget Terry out of his head. And
(02:59):
the next day, and this isa Friday, he backtracked and he made
his way to Beaumont, Texas,which is where Terry was. Terry really
didn't think much about the encounter besidesbeing flattered, right, I mean,
she's busy with a four year old, she's married, she's in college.
(03:19):
That day she took her daughter todaycare, she was driving to Cougar.
It was a new car that hurtand her husband had just purchased. And
then she was headed off to studywith some friends because the day to quiz
for college. She picked up afew things at the Beaumont shopping mall,
and she planned to be home inplenty of time to pick up her daughter
(03:39):
from daycare. It was just herregular routine, nothing unique. Terry's husband
was a first to realize something wasreally wrong. Friday evening, his daughter's
daycare called to say that Terry hadn'tcame to pick up their child. And
that's when he was that really worried. And he remembered about the guy who
(04:04):
offered to help her be a modeland claimed to be part of a modeling
agency, and to him, Ithink that was a creeper factor. Yeah,
I mean right, if you're aguy and someone's telling your wife that,
I would just assume that it's away to pick up my wife.
He called the police and the police, and eventually the FBI took Terry's disappearance
(04:28):
seriously from the beginning, I know, it doesn't happen very often in our
stories, and they organize a gridsearch of the area around them all because
they were wondering if perhaps Terry didn'ttell her husband that she agreed to maybe
meet the guy at the mall again, or maybe he's still there pursuing other
(04:54):
Okay, law enforcement authorities knew thatChris had left Florida and Georgia in this
Chrysler, and they got a reportabout a man driving Chrysler and he had
a beard, and there was awoman in the passenger seat. But the
(05:15):
person that reported it it was actuallya teenage girl, and she said that
she couldn't really see that much,but it kind of seemed like the woman
was leaning her head against the windowChrysler. This car had turned off through
some rice fields, and that wasunusual and then this young witness said,
(05:36):
I saw it leader again. Itwas coming back along the rice Field road,
but I couldn't see the woman anymore. A massive search for Terry began
in that area, but they didn'tfind her for three days. Oh no,
then they did. Her body wasfound bound with rope really tight.
(06:01):
She was I hate saying it likethis, but she was bob based down
in a canal near the road wherethe girl had last seen her. Oh
really, she was just in thewater. She'd gone to the surface.
An autopsy revealed that Terry had beenstabbed three times in the breast, and
(06:23):
the thrust were so powerful that theblade had gone completely through her body.
Oh my god. Really that mustbe a big knife too, right.
Wow. They do believe that shewould have lived, believe it or not,
because it didn't hit any organs ifshe would have gotten medical help soon
(06:44):
enough, but instead she bled out. She didn't die from drowning. They
couldn't tell she'd been raped because justfrom being in the canal for that long
in the water, there was notraces of seminal fluid. They believed she
died the after knew she was abducted, and also Terry's car was missing from
the parking lot where she was at. Every cop in the South knew now
(07:09):
that Chris was a killing machine.They knew it was him, and he
was hurdling himself through the United States, at least in the South, and
very obviously slick in his approach tothese victims, that he was able to
take them away from what you woulddeem a safe place and nobody heard anything
(07:30):
because there's no witnesses to any ofthis, except for the fact to talk
to you about a young girl seeingthem in a car, But nobody heard
any of these abductions. Back inSouth Florida, detectives and FBI agents,
they're just learning more and more aboutChris. He used this idea of a
modeling agent see and this fashion photographerRuth apparently for much longer time than they
(07:55):
knew. There were many women orgirls, young girl girls like teens,
that came forward and said they'd beenapproached by a man with a beard.
He used a number of different aliases, but he always had a business card
with him that made him seem reputable, so I guess he had different business
(08:16):
cards with different names. Sometimes hewould actually take photos of the young women,
like when he met them. Yeah, I'm gonna take it back to
the agency. Yeah, exactly,that's what I'm guessing. Agents police force
ended up trying to map out whereChris started, where he was going.
They had a command center now andit just showed him starting to go across
(08:39):
America. So he went from Texasto Oklahoma City. Somehow they can trace
this. They know that he spenta night at a motel there and then
on Sunday afternoon he was seen atPenn Square Mall, although no one really
reported anything about it until Monday.And I'm let me explain. Suzanne Wendy
(09:01):
Logan. She's twenty, she's anew bride, and this is spring of
nineteen eighty four. She was beautiful, a blonde. He seemed to really
like blondess and she wanted to bea model. She put together her own
portfolio with various photographs of herself,and somehow she met Chris beforehand and then
(09:26):
or got his number and met himat the mall on March twenty fifth with
her portfolio. Chris, He's thisis perfect, perfect, right, exactly
exactly. Susanne ended up becoming amissing person. There were people that witnessed
(09:46):
her at the mall that afternoon,talking to a bearded man who had a
camera around his neck. Chris hadobviously kidnapped her, and he was heading
north with his helpless victim inte.He drove up I one thirty five to
Newton, Kansas, so again he'smaking his way around the United States.
(10:07):
There he found a motel and hebrought Suzanne into it and he beat her.
Oh and he tortured it. Ohand she wasn't as lucky as Jill
had been. It was the nextday a fisherman found her body. It
was bound on the shores of MilfordLake, but it took days to positively
(10:28):
identify her due to the beating.Yeah, yeah, I mean, he's
getting more and more angry, Tanya. He's like totally defiling her face.
His rage is building. He inflictedpain that was beyond the imagination of most
of us. Suzanne's beautiful hair hadbeen cut short. Oh and he shaved
(10:52):
her pubic hair off. She'd beencut with a sharp knife, but like
teased, you know, Okay,yeah, bitten, stabbed through the left
brass, but that didn't kill her. Chris was using one of the credit
cards she had had on her andthat's how the police in the FBI are
able to kind of track his whereabouts, but there are always one step behind.
(11:16):
I mean, when you're using creditcards and stuff, you're going to
be behind. The investigators were reallyfrustrated he's managed by this point. I
don't know if you've kept count,but he's abducted seven women since January,
damn, and only one escaped.Chris turned up in the West after Suzanne's
body was found. He was drivingthat cougar that I told you was stolen
(11:41):
from Terry and he was in Coloradoon Route seventy. And now we're only
on March twenty nine, so he'sjust wow, he's in Colorado, all
yeah, wow, and he wasready for yet another victim. He showed
up at the Mason Mall that Thursday. He had his camera around him and
(12:01):
he was looking for a particular type. He was looking for the cowgirl type
model. He went around to otherpeople at the mall and said he was
a photographer and he was on aspecific job and needed a girl that looked
like she was dressed like a cowgirlat the mall. Okay, like she's
just gonna show up just like acowgirl. I don't know. Maybe so
(12:24):
Cheryl Benaventura, she was eighteen.She was exactly what he had in mind.
Although she never heard of Chris Wilder. She went to the mall dressed
as the perfect part for his nextvictim, completely unaware. She was wearing
a white sweatshirt with a Cherokee logo, blue jeans, cowboy boots, and
she had a lot of chunky goldjewelry. She went there to go shopping,
(12:46):
but she didn't plan on staying long. She's gonna meet a friend soon
and the two were gonna go toAspen for skiing. Oh fuck, I
know all she needed, which isa few little extra items for her trip.
So it was in a deal.She had thick blond hair, slender
figure, perfect figure. She lookedlike a model. Somewhere in that mall,
(13:09):
Cheryl met Chris and he gave herthat story about you could be a
model. He claimed he was froma big Denver agency, and we know
she walked away with him. Cheryl'sfriend waited for her, and she waited.
There was this pre arranged area wherethey were going to meet. This
spot. Somehow Chris managed to convinceCheryl not to go meet her friend there's
(13:35):
evidence that Cheryl did go with Chriswillingly, as the pair was seen in
Silverton, and that's a little miningtown on the way to Durango, Colorado,
that was one hundred miles south ofthe mall where she was last seen.
They stopped at a restaurant, andCheryl's grandpa had worked there before,
so she knew that restaurant. Shetalked with the owner. That's how they
(13:58):
know she was actually lay there becausehe remembered talking to Cheryl. He knew
Cheryl, and Cheryl said she wasreally excited about becoming a model. Oh
no. A man with blue eyesa neatly clipped beard was beside her,
and he was smiling as she's justso enthusiastic about this. They grabbed a
(14:18):
bunch of donuts and then they movedon. He's very bold. Yeah that
I know. He doesn't even givea fuck. Now he's getting away with
it. He's on the run whatever. For some reason, Chris didn't do
anything to Cheryl. For a fewdays, they were spotted in a few
locations in Colorado and Arizona. Theyhung out together. M I don't know
(14:41):
what story is weird. The nightof March thirtieth. They checked into a
motel in Page, Arizona as amarried couple. Weird, what the fuck
is going on? Shortly after dawn, someone noticed Chris as he whisked the
blonde woman out of his room,Cheryl, and rushed her to his car
like they're like something weird, somethingweird. From that point on, there
(15:07):
were no more sightings of Cheryl andthis man twice rage Chris. Cheryl's family
kept up the search for her,but she vanished somewhere along the trail from
her hometown to Las Vegas. Theylost her. There's just no trace of
(15:28):
her anymore. Chris wasn't done.He continued on. He had his next
victim, seventeen year old Michelle Korfman. She was pretty young. She had
parked the brand new car father hadgiven her at the Meadows Shopping Mall in
Las Vegas. And I always tellmy kids be weird. As I got
girls at the mall, right,talk to anyone and stranger danger, stranger
(15:52):
danger, seriously. And this isLas Vegas. It was April Fool's Day.
Michelle and some of her other friends, they're young women. We're at
the mall and there was this guy. He was a fashion photographer and he
was looking for models. He hada portfolio out of photographs he'd taken of
really beautiful women, and he showedall these really pretty teenage girls this.
(16:17):
He had an expensive camera, hehad a leather case, and he promised
that the potential models would get agood fee up front, and more important,
that he was working with the topmodeling agencies out there. Even so,
three of the girls were like no, yeah, no, thank you.
They didn't want to leave them allwith him, which is what he
(16:40):
wanted them to do. He wasgoing to try to get a group of
girls wow to go to his studio. He didn't seem angry or disappointed when
they didn't want to go. Hejust sat on this bench nearr stage And
just so you know, there wasa contest going on. It was is
(17:00):
I believe a young girls, andI think younger than teens modeling contests not
modeling? What do they call it? What are those shows? Like a
fashion show or something? Beauty?Beauty thank you? I guess yeah,
like you see on TV. Yeah, so if you think about it,
there's this younger beauty pageant and he'strying to set up like he's a professional
(17:25):
because he's going to get people thatwant that are interested in that sort of
stuff to come around. And he'sgot his card, he's got his camera,
portfolio, portfolio. Oh yeah,it seems really legit. Right.
One of the mothers in attendance,her daughter was a professional. That's what
I'm calling it. What it helpedme out, Tanya. What are those
(17:48):
mothers the pageant? The pageant moms? Is that what they're calling She was
one of those, and she's takingpictures of her daughter on the stage,
and she actually captured a picture ofChris. I've seen that picture. Yes
see I knew you knew this case. Yeah, I saw that picture.
Yeah, it's out there, yea, included with the story. So this
(18:12):
beauty contest, when it was over, he just kind of creeped everybody out
by lingering around. Several people sawMichelle talking to him, and then the
two of them headed slowly towards theexit. So there's this, I mean
this is there's a group of peopleand right, and they see them walking
(18:33):
towards the exit and the Michelle's goneher price car, brand new, perfect
condition, that was found days laterin a parking lot behind Caesar's Palace in
Las Vegas. Chris laughed Las Vegas, and Michelle was with him at least
part of the day. By Aprilfourth, Chris was alone again and he's
now driving that cougar. Although itwasn't known at the time, Michelle was
(18:59):
dead. Eventually, her unclaimed unidentifiedbody lay in the Los Angeles County Morgue.
Oh damn Los Angeles on June fifteenth, when Nevada and California authorities finally
connected her corpse with a beautiful seventeenyear old who had vanished from Las Vegas.
(19:19):
She'd been missing two and a halfmonths. Oh how awful for the
madied all that makes me so say, I know he made the FBI's ten
most wanted list. Wow, everybodywas looking for him. But this fucker,
he just seemed to get away everything. Lucky the tenth victim may have
(19:42):
lived because she didn't argue or threatenedhim. She played helpless and that probably
is what saved her life. InApril fourth, Tina Marie Rocicico, she's
sixteen, was headed to apply fora job at a Delhi in Torrance,
and that's one of the many citiesthat were South Los Angeles. Yes,
(20:08):
my friend Jody oh, she livedin toy She lived in Torre. You
go. Tina wasn't looking forward tothe job because he just paid minimum wage.
But she she's like, probably,like I need a job. I
guess yeah, because she was witha single mom and her mom needed help,
so okay, you gotta do whatyou gotta do. She was a
(20:30):
survivor. She wanted to pull herown weight. When she encountered Chris,
she was just easy prey for him. He came up to the outside of
the deli and he's not frightening atall. He's just an old man with
a beard and friendly blue eyes.Okay, old, yeah, I know,
he's probably like or something right,and now my like creeper radar goes
(20:52):
off. But she's young. Hetold her that she was just the right
type for an ad campaign for acompany was working for. She saw his
camera and he had all this,he had extra gear with him, and
she felt comfortable. She was alittle bit different than some of the other
girls. She was a little bitoverweight, and she wasn't used to somebody
(21:15):
being told she could be a model. And she was really flattered and intrigued,
and he offered her a hundred dollarsif she would go to the beach
near Santa Monica with him and justpose for some ad shots. To her,
there was a lot of money,so she agreed. At first it
was fun, until later she realizedthat the wind like it was getting chilly.
(21:37):
The wind is blowing, and therewas only those two left on the
beach. Like yeah, And shetold Chris, you know, I got
to get home. My mom's waiting, but he kept persisting that she stay,
and then he got angry with her. He told her your modeling days
(21:59):
are over, and he dragged herover to his car. He pushed her
into the backseat and he held herdown as he tied her arms behind her
back, and then he looped thisrope between her ankles, so she's being
hog tied basically. Next thing sheknew, the car's racing away from the
beach and headed outside of Torrents.She's just trapped there for six hours.
(22:23):
Oh, that's terrifying. And thenthe car slowly went to a stop.
Chris and Tina were still in thecougar, although now it had different plates.
It had some new Mexico plates thatChris had stolen. Chris had been
stealing along the way, credit cards, other things in an effort to hide
his identity, but he still wasusing his partner's credit card. What a
(22:47):
dumb ass. He headed out ofLos Angeles County to El Centro, California.
Do you know that? I haveyou been there? And he chucked
into a motel. He had aquick little nap and then he hit the
road again with Tina in the car. They crossed the desert into Arizona,
and then he went north to Prescott, Arizona, which I've been to.
(23:10):
I have. They stayed the nighton a motel there and then something changed.
Maybe it was the fact that hesaw himself on the ten most wanted
lists. Nobody really knows. Butthere's no sightings, no motel receipts,
nothing for four days straight. Andkeep in mind, they're on his tail,
(23:30):
they're just behind him him. Duringthose four days, Tina was subjected
to multiple rapes. She didn't fighthim. She was just very passive during
all these encounters. She listened towhat Chris said, listen to talk about
his fantasy, gross his obsessions,his hopes, his dreams, and somehow
(23:56):
her just listening and carrying a pretendingto care about him. Sue them.
He just needed someone to talk toTaliah, right, someone just don't understand
it, just to listen. Hecan call what is it betterhelp dot com?
I don't know, whatever. Whatever. For whatever reason, Kristen killed
(24:17):
Tina. That's why I'm guessing hedidn't, but I don't know. He
kept her with him and he headedeast. It didn't take long before Tina
developed Stockholm syndrome. Oh no,yeah, and you know what that is.
Yes, for those that don't,it's an intricate psychological process that basically
turned your mind inside out. Inother words, she was brainwashed. She
(24:42):
was kidnapped, terrorized, rape,taken far from home. The fact she
survived is amazing, and Chris wasbeing kind of her. Is it sounds
weird to say? It does?When someone goes through that and then eventually
their captor is nice and gentle anduses a soft voice. It can have
(25:03):
It can create that Stockholm syndrome.It didn't kill her. She hoped he
wouldn't, and she thought if shejust listened to him and did whatever he
asked, she'd survive. But asI said, things began to change.
They crossed into the Indiana state line. By that point Tina was prepared to
do whatever Chris ass of her.He convinced her that even when she was
(25:23):
out of the car and away fromhim, he could still hurt her.
In order to stay alive, she'dhave to follow his orders. In Gary,
Indiana, on April tenth, Chrisordered Tina to go to the Westlake
Mall and find him a girl no, yes, no yes. He gave
her script oh that she had touse to get the victim to go with
(25:48):
her. Basically, the script wentalong the lines of offer a pretty girl
a job, a modeling job,and get her to the car. And
Chris just sat there and waited untilsixteen year old donnat Well arrived with Tina.
They got into the car, andthe cure sped away. Tina was
no longer the prime captive. Donnetthad taken her place. She was outbound,
(26:14):
gagged with doc tape in the backseatof the car. Can you imagine
how Donnatt felt wondering about Tina.Yeah, I'd be like, what the
hell the girl that led her there? Tina was in some sort of trance,
Like I said, it was likeStockholm syndrome. It's just she wouldn't
help Donna she didn't look at Donna. So now you have the FBI and
(26:36):
the police and they're looking at creditcards, partners, credit cards, trying
to find information. They know hislast years in Arizona, and they were
concentrating their efforts there. But they'rebehind him and they didn't know what his
next move was because he'd been zigzagging. He'd crossed so you know,
Tanya six thousand miles before they trackedhim. Holy shit, he did go
(27:00):
from California to Gary, Indiana.I mean, that's like all the way
across the country, started in Floridaand started in the place. On April
eleventh, the credit card that they'dbeen tracking was used at a motel in
southeast of roch Haster, New York. Jeez, he's in New York.
They went there, No one recalledseeing the guy that used that. They
(27:23):
couldn't describe who it was, andthey're behind him still. That same day,
a tractor mechanic was driving on atwo lane road in the woods near
penn Yan, New York. Hewas lost and he was about to turn
around when he saw this young womanrunning towards them. She was almost naked,
(27:44):
her breasts were red with blood.He stopped his truck, jumped out,
and he helped her into the passengerseat, and then he took her
to the hospital. Donnat survived.Wow, that was Donnat shit. Stab
wounds to her chest, oh jeeze, oh my god. By only luck
(28:04):
Okay, they didn't pierce her vitalorients and she was eventually able to talk
to the FBI agents. So hehad taken her to the woods, half
naked, stabbed her and left herfor dead. But she didn't die.
And I love that part. Iknow me too. It happened so infrequently
in our story. No not,unfortunately, happened enough. The FBI agents
(28:29):
gave her mug shots, and ofcourse she identifies Chris. He'd gone from
Florida to Georgia, Louisiana, Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado,
Utah, Nevada, California, Arizona, Indiana, Ohio, and now
he was somewhere south of Lake Ontario, between Buffalo and Syracuse, New York.
(28:51):
Jeez, it was a lot.To our non US listeners, it's
a lot. That's a fucking,that's a lot of driving. Donnette's statements
shocked police when she told him thatChris had a girl with him like,
oh yeah, that's right, andthat's this girl was an accomplice. She
(29:11):
told them about how this girl sheknew as Tina, came to the mall
Gary, Indiana when she was applyingfor a job. Tina lied to Donatt
to get her out to the carwhere Chris was waiting. She described what
Tina looked like. So she's aboutsixteen, pretty put, a little bit
plump, and when she followed Tinaoutside the mall, she'd been led to
(29:33):
that cougar and then of course theman with a beard he pulled out a
gun's it was a three fifty sevenmagnum and that's how eventually he was able
to get her in the trunk,and then he bound her hands and feet.
Donett was subjected to electric shock torture, along with a lot of other
(29:55):
abuses while Tina was there in theroom. Again. She'd been bound and
gagged during the time that she wastraveling hog Tide in the backseat, and
she was hidden beneath the rack ofclothing Chris had strung up. She believed
that escaping was hopeless. At night, she would be hustled between different motel
(30:17):
rooms because they were always moving aroundand she was bound most of the time.
She recalled that they went through NiagaraFalls and that Chris and Tina got
out to look at the falls.Oh damn. She was in the backseat
of the car. He was soconfident, he completely controlled Tina. It's
(30:41):
an invisible tether, yeah, butit's in her mind. On April twelfth,
in the early morning, everybody wokeup and Chris turned on the television.
Tina's mom was on the screen.She was on Good Morning America,
and she was begging for any informationout there regarding her missing daughter. This
seemed to spook Chris because that's whenhe panicked and he took Tine on her
(31:07):
and shoved them like into the carreally fast. He drove to this narrow,
isolated road. That's the road thatthe tractor mechanic eventually found her on.
She knew he was going to killher. She knew that's the end.
But she was blindfolded and bound andgagged. He took her out of
the car and he told her towalk a certain way and keep walking.
(31:33):
She could sense when they had walkedthrough some woods into an open field,
and he forced her to the dampground. He clamped one hand over her
mouth, and he pinched her noseshut with the other but she tossed and
she turned her head back and forth. I mean she's trying to live,
yes, And then it felt asif he hit her really hard in the
(31:56):
chest and twice in the back.But she blind folded, and the adrenaline's
rushing, and she didn't realize thatshe'd been stabbed until she could feel this
warm, wetness dripping down her herblood. She forced herself to lay perfectly
still and take really shallow breaths andtry not to breathe as much as possible.
(32:21):
She wanted Chris to think up.Obviously she was dead. She could
hear him standing over her. Hewas breathing really heavy, and then finally
she heard the sound of footsteps walkingaway from her. Oh my god,
it must have been terrified. Oh. I can't imagine how with your adrenaline
pumping, your heart is just pounding, how do you breathe shallow breaths?
(32:45):
It's impossible. I don't know howI would be able to do that in
that kind of state. No,I can't even do it at like a
kid's too many kids around, LikeI mean him re ever tried it'd be
insanity. Eventually, when she feltit was safe, she took the blindfold
off, but she had to doit basically by trying to rub it because
(33:07):
she was still yes, and becauseof the blood it was possible for her
to slide her wrists out of thebonds. Yeah, and then she was
eventually able to untie her ankles andrun like the wind. No, she
was still really disoriented, but thatsounded good, Daniels. I mean,
she's been stabbed. Yeah, she'slike and she has no idea where she's
(33:30):
at, so she's trying to run. She's staggering out of the woods as
best she can. You ever ranand staggered at the same time. I
don't run. You haven't been drunkenough. I've ran and staggered at the
same time. It's not pretty.But that's when she was found, Yeah,
(33:51):
by the tractor mechanic. She toldthe FBI everything she knew, but
they still didn't know where Chris wasgoing. He could be anywhere, Yeah,
he really could, and he's notdone tanyack. His next victim is
Bath Dodge. She's a thirty threeyear old wife, mother, and Sunday
school teacher. She didn't fit hisprofile in any way, shape or form,
(34:14):
except that she's a female. Hesaw her in the East View Mall
near Victor, New York, andshe pulled up in her gold nineteen eighty
two Pontiac Firebird. She was goingto meet a friend for lunch, and
Tina and Chris waited an hour forher to go in, have lunch and
then come back to her car.That's when Tina sprung into action and approached
(34:38):
Bath, saying she needed help.Tina lured her back to the car where
Chris was waiting, and then heordered Bath at gunpoint to toss the keys
to Tina. They immediately went toa gravel pit where he made Bath get
out of the car and he shother in the bath. Why just because
(35:01):
I think he's just losing it,man, I lost it. They left
behind the cougar and hopped in thePontiac, and now they had a new
car. There you go in newcar. Best body was found only a
few hours after she died, andso was Yeah, so was the cougar
that had once belonged to Terry.Remember it took only a short time for
(35:22):
investigators to just have this national widealert out for Best missing car and I
mean, we're talking about a stolengold Firebird, so that should get some
attention. Yeah. You think howmany gold Firebirds were there in nineteen eighty
four, and there's probably a lot, but it does stand out, Yeah,
it does stand out. Shortly afternine pm that nine, Tina was
(35:45):
in shock. Chris had decided todrive into the airport access road in Boston,
and she could tell you he wasfollowing these signs to the Logan Airport.
She thought, Okay, I'm goingto die. This is it?
Oh really he's yeah, he's killedmultiple people now she knows this. Instead
(36:07):
of killing her like she thought wouldhappen, he pulled out are you right
for this? A thick chunk ofbills and he handed it to her,
telling her to buy a ticket toLos Angeles. What ye Wow? She
doesn't disbelieve for a few moments,and then she got out of the car
and she bought a ticket and sheheaded home. Wow, are you kidding
(36:27):
me? On a red eye flight? Damn. He dumped her off at
the airport and told to go homeand gave her the money for the ticket.
Shit crazy, that's crazy. Threethousand miles away from New York State,
Tina took a cab from the LaxAirport to her Mosa Beach. She
was almost home, but she didn'tcall her mom. She didn't call her
(36:49):
boyfriend or the police. Instead,she wandered into the shop they had sexy
laundry and started picking out underwear.She's just so traumatized. She's been so
traumatized, and we don't know allthe details of what she went through through
all of this, and she wasstill under his control. At some point,
(37:13):
she's looking at underwear and during thisbizarre shopping spree, Tina walked up
to the clerk at the counter andblurted out, I've been kidnapped. Wow.
But before the clerk could stop her, she left. She ended up
going to the police department. Huh, and they questioned her. She looked
at them with eyes of shock.For the record, she is not normal.
(37:37):
She's in a state of shock.And she said, quote, I've
been with a madman. She wastaken to the hospital. She had physical
wounds. Her breasts bore peculiar darkbruises that doctor said had came from multiple
electric shocks. She lost a lotof way, She looked exhausted, and
(38:01):
the worst part was the psychological damage. A psychiatrist questioned Tina gently, trying
to draw out just the top layerof the horror she'd been through, saying,
quote, she'd been terrorized, farbeyond ordinary threats to someone's life.
(38:22):
Eventually she told the police everything.On that Friday. That very day,
Tina had walked into the police department. The man who released her, Chris,
was on the prowl. Still therewas a nineteen year old girl in
when him Massachusetts. Her card stalledbeside the road and she was sitting in
(38:44):
it, and he stopped, Albert, what are gentlemen? Do you need
a ride? She said, yeah, sure, He said, I'll take
you into town. We'll get thistaken care of. Eventually she realized that
he wasn't heading the right direction,and she glanced at him in to also
realize something else. He looked familiarto her. Oh no, he looked
(39:04):
like somebody she'd seen on TV andon these news bulletins. She actually realized
she was sitting with Chris Wilder.No, no, no. They came
to a stop sign, and obviouslyChris slows down, and this girl pushes
open the car door and gets out. She hit the ground running, didn't
(39:29):
look back and ran to this porchof a nearby house. Of course,
he's driving, realizes this and hespeeds off. He's disappearing down the road.
She's pounding on this door. Andsometime that Friday morning, Chris crossed
over to New Hampshire and he's headedto Colebrook. He was only eight miles
(39:51):
from the Canadian border. The worldwas closing in on him, and he
pulled into this gas station. It'sabout one thirty on April thirteenth. He
got out of this firebird and hewalked around casually, acting like everybody else,
put some gas in his car,went to go pay the cashier,
(40:12):
and he asked, you know,how far is the Canadian border from here?
Just curious, just scarious. Butthat day Chris's luck ran out.
Two New Hampshire State troopers were payingtheir tab for lunch in a little restaurant
just down the street and Quilbor itonly has twelve hundred people. It's a
(40:34):
little town. And there's this firebirdthat's gold yeah. And the stranger there,
this trooper, his name was Leo. He went by Chuck and his
partner Wayne. They spotted the firebirdat the gas pump. These two police
officers. They were pretty confident thiswas Chris, and they parked across the
(40:57):
street just to get a good lookat him. When he walked to his
car. He was the right age, right height. He looked like the
guy they'd been looking for, buthe seemed really calm for somebody that was
on America's did Most Wanted list.The two cops eventually went to the gas
station and they called out to Chrisas he was approaching the car. Hey,
(41:17):
hey, hey, wait a minute, we just want to ask you
a couple of questions. Hang on. Chris looked at him for an instant,
and Chris brinted for the Firebird andone of the police officers drew his
gun, and almost in slow motion, they noticed Chris pull out his three
fifty seven magnum and his oh,holding it in his hand. One of
(41:38):
the officers literally leapt on top ofChris through the driver's door of the Pontiac
because he needed into the Firebird.There was a struggle and both men were
fighting, and then there was thisloud boom. Oh no, well you
know who had the gun. Yeah. The one officer kept his gun pointed
(41:58):
at the gold Firebird and he's whyhe's just watching in shock. His partner
just falls back toward him in thisawful stumbling gait. He screams out,
I'm hurt and there's blood. He'snow limping. Oh no, back to
the police car, and there's nomovement in Chris's car. But the detective
(42:22):
who's not shot isn't taking any chances. Yeah, because only one shot has
gone off and his partner got it. Then suddenly there's another shot. Chris
shot himself. What yep with histhree fifty seven Magno, oh my god,
right in the heart, blue apart. Oh shit, I did not
(42:45):
see that coming. Yes, hedid it, right in the heart.
When Chris shot himself, it actuallyinjured the other officer. What critically injured
him? Damn? It passed herChris's body front back and then penetrated this
trooper's chest. That's crazy. Itjust missed his liver by an inch.
(43:07):
A number of items were recovered fromChris's car, including the gun, ammunition,
handcuffs, rolls of duct tape,rope, a sleeping bag, his
business partner's credit card and he wasstill using that. A homemade electrical cord
that was used to torture some ofhis Victims And you know that book the
(43:28):
Collector. Oh yeah, we talkedabout the end of another episode in which
a man keeps a woman in thebasement against her will until she dies.
He had that there. It appearedhe'd read it multiple times. A lot
of the victims families were really upset, obviously by Chris's death, and they
(43:51):
want to know exactly what happened totheir daughters, and they didn't. Sherry
Bana Ventura's body was eventually found onMay third. The remains of Beth Canyon,
Rosario Gonzalez, and Colleen Osborne theywere never found, never found of
(44:13):
all the terrible things Chris did,leaving these families just wondering. I mean
it, it was horrible and whathe did, what he did all of
us, is fucking horrible. AfterChris's death, the parents of Rosario Gonzalez,
they went to Chris's property and theydecided they wanted to see if their
missing daughter was buried there. Theygot arrested four members four members of the
(44:37):
family for trespassing. They filed aclaim against him for fifty million dollars,
but they didn't win. And that'sthe story. What the hell? Yeah,
And I told you before. Iread a bunch of books on this,
and the truth is, we don'treally know what happened to a lot
of these girls because only Chris knowsand he to get with him to the
(45:00):
grave. We only know really whathappened when Tina became involved. And because
yeah, so that is the storyof Wow Wilder Damn he was crazy.
And keep in mind, if hedidn't listen to part one, he lived
in Australia for a while. Yeah, he was all like he literally was
(45:22):
all over the place. He wasall over the place, and yeah he
didn't do we know he raped atleast one multiple people in Australia. So
did he commit murder there, Wedon't know. Probably, yeah, really
allegedly. Well thanks to Leo,thank you, and I want to thank
everybody for taking the time to listento this episode. If you like this
(45:45):
and you want some more that aren'tmade public, you can go to patreon
dot com slash t NT crimes andthat is that would be the Letters T
and T and we release one aweek for our subscribers that is not given
(46:06):
to the rest of the public,and you get the weekly public episode early
release and add free. Absolutely don'thave to listen to this damn commercially or
spend time fast forward. That's true. That's true. You can also get
the same stuff if you are listeningon the Apple podcast by just hitting subscribe.
(46:28):
We also have a website, Crimesand Consequences dot com. We have
Facebook, Instagram at Hardcore True Crimeand that's about it. Yeah, thank
you guys for putting up with myvoice because throughout this whole episode it's slowly
going going, gone away. Well, thanks again, and until our next
(46:49):
episode, don't kill each other.Bye bye,
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