November 10, 2025 • 44 mins
In this week’s episode of The Power Lounge, host Amy Vaughan welcomes Ilise Benun, acclaimed business coach, author, and founder of Marketing-Mentor.com, for a candid conversation about money, mindset, and marketing for creative professionals. Together they explore why so many talented freelancers and solopreneurs fall into the exhausting cycle of undercharging and overdelivering, and what it truly takes to build a business that reflects both your skill and your value.
Ilise shares decades of wisdom on how to reframe pricing from a matter of self-worth to one of clear strategy and confident communication. She offers practical advice on having better money conversations, identifying ideal clients, and setting prices that feel fair to both sides. The discussion is packed with insight, from her signature “$500, $5,000, or $50,000” approach to budget talks, to the mindset shifts needed to escape desperation pricing and cultivate lasting client relationships.
Amy and Ilise also dig into the art of consistent marketing, emphasizing that real success comes from showing up regularly and authentically. They discuss the power of simplicity, how to market yourself without making it about you, and why even small, steady efforts can transform your business over time. Whether you’re a creative struggling to charge what you’re worth or a seasoned professional ready to attract higher-value clients, this episode will challenge how you think about money and remind you that confidence, clarity, and communication are your strongest assets.
Chapters:
00:00 – Introduction & Welcome
00:29 – Meet Ilise Benun: Guest Introduction
01:22 – Ilise’s Background & Podcast
01:49 – Episode Overview: Pricing, Mindset, and Marketing
02:28 – The “Spooky” Topic: Money
03:53 – Why Creative Professionals Undervalue Their Work
05:21 – The Power of Mindset in Pricing
06:02 – Pricing Problems Need Marketing Solutions
07:24 – Attracting the Right Clients & Using AI
10:10 – Real-World Pricing Stories
11:08 – The Importance of the Money Conversation
12:31 – Mindset Shifts for Discussing Budgets
13:44 – Avoiding Desperation Pricing
15:10 – Transparency and Building Client Partnerships
16:16 – Value-Based vs. Hourly Pricing
17:32 – Common Marketing Mistakes
19:58 – The Simplicity of Effective Marketing
21:30 – Raising Rates & Upgrading Clients
24:28 – Marketing Yourself vs. Marketing a Product
27:30 – Power Round & Final Advice
Quotes:
“There’s this people-pleasing thing we tend to do, especially as women, and it gets all tied up in our so-called self-worth — which doesn’t really belong in business. You have to take yourself out of it and look at your pricing objectively. Like I always say, ‘Like me a little less and pay me a little more.’” - Ilise Benun
“Awareness is the key. Listen to that internal voice, notice the tone, and remember — just because you think it doesn’t make it true. But if you believe in it long enough, you can think it into being true.” - Amy Vaughan
Key Takeaways:
- Pricing isn’t about self-worth — it’s about strategy.
- Mindset is built on your inner dialogue.
- Marketing solves pricing problems.
- Have the money conversation early.
- Stop people-pleasing your way into poverty.
- Price communicates value. Low rates often repel serious clients.
- Consistency beats complexity. Small marketing actions build stronger pipelines.
- Raise rates through conversation, not confrontation.
- Let go to level up. You can’t grow while holding onto every client.
- Marketing isn’t about you — it’s about them. The best promotion focuses on solving your clients’ problems, not brag
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly power
lounge.
This is your place to hearauthentic conversations from
those who have power to share.
My name is Amy Vaughn and I amthe owner and chief empowerment
officer at Together Digital, adiverse and collaborative
community of women who work indigital and choose to share
their knowledge, power, andconnections.
Join the movement atTogetherIndigital.com.
(00:31):
Hello, everyone.
And today I am thrilled towelcome Elise Bennin, a
nationally recognized businesscoach who has been helping
creative professionals breakfree from undercharge over
deliver cycles for decades.
As the founder ofmarketing-mentor.com, Elise has
become the go-to resource forsolopreneurs and freelancers
(00:53):
seeking better projects withbigger budgets.
A national speaker and theauthor of seven books, including
The Creative Professionals Guideto Money, Elise brings wealth
and a wealth of practical wisdomin today's conversation.
Since 2008, she has been sharinginsights as the Marketer Mentor
Podcast.
So be sure to check that out.
(01:14):
And her signature program, TheSimplest Marketing Plan, has
helped countless creativesmarket smarter, not harder.
Sounds like music to our ears.
For our community members whoare tired of undercharging and
already attract or ready toattract clients who are truly
ready to value their expertise,today's conversation promises to
be a game changer for you.
(01:34):
Elise will share how to identifyand attract the right clients,
why marketing only works whenyou actually do it, and the
mindset shifts that it takes formoney conversations to make them
so much easier.
Thank you, Amy.
It's great to be here.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Happy Friday, everybody.
(01:55):
And for all of our livelisteners, welcome.
Happy Halloween.
Elise was totally in the spiritof things.
And I know that you are whothose who are listening to the
podcast can't see it, but we'vegot we've got Captain Elise
here.
She's dressed up and ready togo.
Um, so we can talk about thatspooky, spooky, scary thing.
Money, right?
Um, so yeah, thank you so muchfor Elise for being such a good
sport and being here today.
(02:16):
Let's start with a good oldelephant of the room, which is
um, you know, so many of ourmembers face this.
It's it's an abundantconversation that's kind of
always going in our Slackchannel.
Um, undercharging andoverdelivering.
What do you feel is the rootcause behind why creative
professionals consistentlyundervalue their work?
SPEAKER_01 (02:33):
So I want to start with a quote from a good friend
of mine who works on WallStreet.
And she says, like me a littleless and pay me a little more.
And I love that becauseespecially for women, right?
There's this people-pleasingthing we tend to do, and it gets
(02:55):
all tied up in our quote unquoteself-worth, which I always put
in quotation marks, becausereally there's no such thing as
that, in my opinion.
And we're talking aboutbusiness.
This is business, and you haveto understand that and
essentially kind of takeyourself out of it and think
about it as some other entity,if necessary.
(03:18):
And I just had a thought thismorning, actually, which is
probably going to inform thenext year of my content.
But this idea that you have tostart with the right mindset.
But what exactly is a mindset?
That was the question in mymind.
I'm curious what you think ofthat.
But my answer was it's thethings we say to ourselves.
(03:39):
Yes.
And that we have total controlover and we can change.
And it's more than affirmations.
I'm not talking aboutaffirmations.
It's like understanding when youhave just said to yourself, Oh,
I can't charge that, right?
That kind of thing.
It's the negative that we say toourselves that we have to
surface and then replace withsomething better.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Yeah, 100%.
Like awareness is the key,right?
Listening to that internalvoice, acknowledging the
presence of it, and thenacknowledging that tone and that
internal narrative.
I agree.
I think that's exactly whatmindset is.
And it's something that you cantrain and coach to be different.
You know, I think I tell my kidsa lot, just because you think it
doesn't make it true, but youcan think it into being true.
Like you just have to letyourself think it.
(04:23):
So it is a total mindset thing.
Um, and I love that.
Like me a little less, pay me alittle more or a lot more.
I want that tattooed on me.
Yes, exactly.
That's a great quote.
I'm not gonna forget that one.
And y'all know me that arelistening.
I love a good quote.
Cool.
Awesome.
All right, next question.
(04:43):
You know, like we talked aboutthis being a little bit of a
cycle sometimes, right?
Of falling into the space whereyou aren't charging enough or
you're um you're you're goingout of scope a lot with clients.
You know, sometimes the workfeels hard to define, and you
actually hit more than nail onthe head.
It's the people pleasing part.
(05:04):
Um, and and you talk a lot aboutattracting clients who pay you
what you're worth.
That feels sometimes impossibleand unreachable for some that
might be listening.
How do you help someone identifywhat they're actually worth
versus what they think they canget away with charging?
Because there's like always thislike weird line, right, as to
what we think that could be,should be, looks like,
(05:25):
especially when we don't talkabout pricing often.
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
Yeah, it's true.
Um, I guess I would start byjust repeating what I said
before, which is that I don'tthink there is such a thing as
what you're worth.
So if you can realize that, andthen the next step is what do I
need to earn?
You know, that's really theimportant thing is do you know
(05:49):
how much you need to earn tobreak even?
You should, and to make aprofit, you should.
And then you work with thosenumbers to basically find the
people who can pay that.
And so this is one of the thingsI call a pricing problem with a
marketing solution.
Because often people try to, Idon't know, hope or convince the
(06:15):
people they're talking to to paymore.
It's unlikely they can even.
And we're usually, unless wehave very proactively and
intentionally pursued theprospects, the ideal prospects
that we really want.
The ones we have are probablynot them, most of them.
And so we have to do themarketing to number one,
(06:36):
identify the people who have thebig bucks, and that's a guess,
because so then you have to gothrough the marketing process
and get to the proposal processto figure out and have that
conversation about whether ornot they can afford the kinds of
numbers you're talking about.
And then you know to pursue morelike that.
(06:57):
So, I mean, one solution that Ioften advise is if you have one
client who is your ideal clientand who can pay what you want to
charge, then clone them,basically, right?
Use your marketing to clonethem.
And AI is actually really goodat this.
I've been teaching a lot ofpeople lately how to find
clients with AI.
(07:18):
And all you have to do is put inlike, here's the website and the
LinkedIn profile of my idealclient.
Find me 10 more like them.
SPEAKER_00 (07:30):
That's brilliant.
I do love using AI for a littlebit of digging for that.
I did something kind of similarwhere like I went and found
LinkedIn profiles because youcould download them as PDFs of
people that were our idealclients or are like most kind of
like engaged long-term members,and then put those into an AI to
say, like, what does thisdemographic look like?
What does the psychographic looklike?
(07:52):
And that really helped me aswell because it as you were
talking to it kind of remindedme of one of my friends.
I have a couple friends who owndifferent catering businesses.
This is like a great real worldexample, right?
And they are they're bothcaterers, but and they're both
phenomenal women, but they bothserve very different markets,
but they're both caterers.
And one of them is she callsherself all inclusive because
(08:13):
they will work with any budget,any timeline.
I mean, they just stretch andcompress and come expand, like
whatever you need, they will do.
Shout out to MagnificentMorsels.
And then my other friend,Salima, Soleil Kitchen, she is
like, I charge for bougie.
Like I am bougie.
You are going to get premiumquality food.
(08:35):
You're going to have anexperience.
And if you can't afford me,that's a you problem, not a me
problem, because that just meansthere's other caterers for you.
And so two exact same comp typeof businesses, both owned by
really amazing women, bothphenomenal cooks, but both are
clearly going after a different,a different audience based on
the kinds of clients and whatthey want to get paid.
Now, Crystal, you know, withMagnificent Morsels, her
(08:57):
business model makes it suchthat they can be all-inclusive
and work within just about anybudget.
Um, but that takes a lot of timeand effort on her part.
You know, there's a lot ofoperations to that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
Yeah.
And it's not just that they'retwo different businesses, those
are two totally differentmarkets and so require a
different type of marketing.
And the thing you're also makingme think of is that price is
often a marketing tool.
It's a positioning tool, right?
And often people think, well, ifI give a low price, they'll hire
(09:29):
me or I won't lose them.
And actually, there are manyclients, especially those who
want value and quality, who willhear a low a price, a low price
and think, oh, that's too low.
It can't be any good.
And they won't choose you.
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
A hundred percent.
I have feel I feel like I'veheard and seen that happen.
I had one of our members umreach out to me a while back.
She got um this amazingopportunity to do the cover and
then a spread of a magazine, alocal parenting magazine, um,
for a year.
And she sent me the estimate,and this is the thing I love
about Together Digital and usjust talking about prices.
(10:04):
She's like, I don't really know.
Am I charging the right amount?
And she sent it to me.
I was like, oh my gosh, you needto double this price.
And I think she was just, shewanted it so bad.
She wanted to remove thebarriers of them having any
reason to say no.
And I mean, she was approachedabout this project specifically.
It's not like they were biddingit out.
They literally went to her andsaid, We want you to do this.
And I cleared that up with herand I was like, dude, double it.
(10:27):
She doubled it.
They didn't even bat an eye.
Right.
They're like, okay, great, let'sgo.
You know, I think sometimes welet price be more of a barrier.
And like you said, we don't goahead.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
Here's the mistake I think she made, which is not
having the money conversationbefore she did the proposal.
Right.
That's why my refrigerator says,let's talk about money.
Because in that very firstconversation, you have to talk
about money.
And you have to not sayactually, what's your budget?
(10:57):
Because most people don't knowor they won't tell you.
You say, Well, are you thinking500, 5,000, or 50,000?
Here's my spectrum.
Tell me where you are on myspectrum, and then we can talk.
And then you'll know if they canafford you.
unknown (11:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
I love it.
Yeah.
And that answered my nextquestion perfectly.
Like, you know, when we'retrying to have the money
conversation, it can feel like astruggle and it feels like a
game, right?
It's a guessing game, it's abidding game.
But I think it's a zero-sum gamefor both you and the client
because you want to provide theclient with the most value
possible, right?
Typically, most of these womenthat are working here within
Together Digital are.
(11:33):
And so to try to meet that need,but then not lose your backside
is like a whole nother thing.
So, what do you think themindset shift is that it takes
to be able to feel comfortablediscussing budgets and rates?
Because I think people, as youeven start to say it, they're
like, ah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
Yeah.
Well, first of all, going backto um one of the examples you
gave, you have to not feel likeyou need it.
You have to go into thatconversation thinking, if I get
it, great.
If I don't, it's fine.
And again, this is a kind of apricing solution pricing problem
with a marketing solution.
Because if you've got lots ofother irons in the fire, then
(12:10):
you won't feel like you musthave this one.
And so that I want to call itdesperation because often people
do this desperation pricingbecause they desperately want
it, whether they desperatelyneed it or not is a different
issue.
But you do this desperationpricing and the other people can
feel it.
Yeah.
And so you have to go in with avery like, all right, kind of
(12:33):
experimental.
Like this is an experiment.
I'm gonna try putting thesenumbers on the table and see if
they answer.
And because I know sometimespeople say, Well, what if they
won't tell you if it's 500,5,000, or 50,000?
Then you say, All right, howmany zeros in your head?
SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
Right.
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (12:51):
Like there are other ways.
If I told you it was gonna be20,000, would you fall off your
chair?
There's so many ways to say itto bring a little humor to the
conversation because they're notcomfortable talking about money
either for the most part.
SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
Well, and it always blows my mind as a now running
multiple businesses that peopledon't have people don't have,
they say they don't havebudgets.
I you have a budget.
And it's not going to hurt youto be transparent about it.
Because here's the thing I find,at least with most independent
service providers that are maybeusually referred or vetted or
trusted, is that for me, it'slike, how can I make the most of
(13:26):
your money and my time?
Right.
And so I'm not looking to gougeyou or overcharge you.
I'm really just looking to say,how can we be most effective
with the money that you have?
And so without that line ofsight, it's really, really hard
to be a good partner, you know,to do what needs to be done to
hit the goals if you don't havethat number in mind.
(13:46):
So to me as well, I mean, Idon't take it kind of as a red
flag.
I don't know how you feel aboutit, Lisa.
If somebody's like, I have noclue what my budget is, 50 or
50,000, I'd be like, Yeah,you're not my client.
SPEAKER_01 (13:56):
You're not for me.
That's true.
But also sometimes they don'tknow they know, right?
So if you say what's yourbudget, and they'd uh like, I
don't really know what whatshould this cost?
Because they've never done itbefore, perhaps.
Um but this the reason I say500, 5,000, 50,000 is because as
soon as you put some numbers infront of them, they know their
(14:16):
budget.
All of a sudden, right, it popsinto their head.
So oh no, 50,000, obviously not.
5,000, that's a little high.
We were thinking more likethree.
Okay, thank you.
Right, but I needed to know.
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
That's a great strategy.
Well, hopefully some of ourlisteners will try it.
Also, live listeners, don'tforget you can use the chat.
So if you have any questions,um, this is a big topic among
our community.
So if you want to drop aquestion in the chat for Elise,
you can definitely drop it inand I'll make sure we get it
asked before we finish.
Go ahead, Elise, so you'regetting ready to come again.
SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
Yeah, I um I had a conversation with a client this
morning who was working on aproposal for a prospect of hers,
someone new she'd never workedwith.
And we came up with kind of aninteresting solution also that I
think would be helpful becauseshe had basically given
examples.
She's a designer, a graphicdesigner, given examples uh but
(15:05):
without any pricing to thisprospect who was interested.
So the prospect came back andsaid, This looks good.
I'm talking to other people, Ineed some prices.
And she didn't want to scare theperson away, basically, by
putting prices on.
So what we came up with in termsof language is I know you're
looking at other people, but ifour work is what you prefer,
(15:30):
then uh I'm hoping to avoid thatyou make a decision based only
on the numbers.
If you like the work, then let'stalk.
Because essentially, if you tellus what you can pay, we'll tell
you what you can get for that.
And so I kind of like the ideaof just being really honest and
saying, please don't make adecision based only on these
(15:53):
numbers, right?
Before we talk.
Why couldn't you say that?
SPEAKER_00 (15:57):
A hundred percent.
I love that so much.
I think transparency is so keybecause again, I'm from both
sides.
It just allows that transparencyallows for a better, stronger
partnership.
SPEAKER_02 (16:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:05):
You know, having worked with as many clients and
varying budgets as I have over15 years, the best work I've
actually done never came fromthe massive budgets that had six
or even seven zeros behind them.
It actually came from some ofthose smaller projects where we
were truly aligned with theclient on like the vision, the
purpose, the outcome.
And then we were really smartabout how we use that money.
(16:26):
And at the end, it was a win-winfor everybody because everything
was clearly defined on theupfront.
Um, we've had this conversationlast year at our national
conference, and I just flashedback to Sarah Grace Moore, who I
think is she's also been on thepodcast as well.
And they own a company that'slike um People Prosperity and
then the Mackie Group, whichdoes like fractional CFO work,
but also like personal financeum mentorship and support.
(16:50):
And her mom started thebusiness, and it's really all
about understanding yourrelationship with money and
finding joy in money andcelebrating money, which is
something we are not veryconditioned to do.
Um, so I definitely recommendyou all check out the book that
Mackie has put out.
The other thing Sarah Grace hadsaid at one point was, you know,
(17:11):
a lot of creatives have atendency, because she's a very
big passion.
I should introduce you guys,actually, at least.
Um, she's so great and you guyswouldn't hit it off so well.
But she's always saying, like,creatives, like she's such a
passion for creatives.
She's a former designer, went toDAP at UC and all this, and now
she's in finance.
And um, so yeah, she was alwayslike, Don't charge per hour,
charge per the equity that youare providing.
(17:32):
Like, what is the value of whatyou are bringing?
SPEAKER_01 (17:36):
And at the same time, I charge hourly.
Yeah.
So it's different, it reallydepends on what you're
delivering.
But the problem with hourlyrates, especially for something
tangible or electronic thatyou're going to deliver, is that
nobody knows how long thingstake.
And so an hourly rate isn't aprice, number one.
(18:00):
Plus, the better you get, thefaster you get, the less you
make.
And how does that make sense?
So I think, and what I advise isum I mean, it's all about the
relationship and theconversation.
So if you can gauge through thatfirst conversation, number one,
(18:23):
when you ask 500, 5,000 or50,000, you're not actually
getting their budget.
You're getting the value thatthey ascribe to the thing you're
doing.
That's what you need to know,right?
How do you value this?
Because if you don't value itthe way I value it, then no
matter what price I'm gonna giveyou, it's not gonna be the right
price.
(18:45):
So instead of so so when someonesays, What's your hourly rate?
My general response or advisedresponse is I don't work that
way.
It's not good for either you orme.
Instead, I'm gonna give you afixed price or a range, and
you'll know how much it's gonnacost, and I'll know how much I'm
gonna make, and it'll be great.
(19:06):
And if, for example, the scopestarts to creep, then I promise
I will come up to you and talkto you about it.
And if we need to renegotiate,we will, but there will be open
communication about it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
So, Lisa, you've been running um
marketing-mentor.com for yearsnow.
What is the most commonmarketing mistake you see
creative professionals makingthat might actually repel their
ideal clients?
SPEAKER_01 (19:33):
Um, I guess the biggest mistake I would say is
well, let me start by sayingself-promotion and marketing is
not about you.
That's one of the myths.
You think when you're marketingyourself, you're supposed to be
talking about yourself.
Right.
And some people say, My mothertold me not to brag, or, you
(19:55):
know, I don't I don't know howto talk about myself.
There are all these reasons.
But the reality is thatmarketing is not about you, it's
about them.
It's about their needs, theirpain, and only about you to the
extent that you're gonna solvetheir problems or cure their
pain.
And this is um, I mean, itsounds it makes sense, right?
(20:20):
And it sounds logical, but Ifeel like there's something
about the way our brains arewired that we are just so
self-centered, maybe it's anAmerican thing, I don't know,
but we are so self-centered thateven when we understand that
intellectually, it's really hardto implement it through our
marketing.
And so when I say that, I mean,for example, um, what was it I
(20:44):
was looking at?
Oh yeah, someone sent me uh aChatGPT thread about a
conversation that he had abouthis own marketing.
He asked ChatGPT, what should Ido in my marketing?
And the the GPT said, Um, do youwant me to give you an outreach
message that you should use forthis market you're interested
in?
And he said yes, and I read it,and it was all about him.
(21:07):
And they don't care about you,right?
You have to start about thething that they struggle with or
the thing that they need or thething that you know that will
make them say, This is exactlywho we need because they really
get us.
Yes.
So short answer making yourmarketing all about you is the
(21:28):
biggest mistake.
SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
Yes, I agree.
I would add to that though, um,we had an episode, I think it
was two weeks ago now, and wetalked about storytelling.
I think where you might fit intothe marketing message, and
again, it's not making you thehero, I 100% agree with you, but
it is speaking to how you haveexperienced that pain point and
leading with a story that makesit relatable, but also builds
(21:52):
that trust and credibility that,like, I know, and it's more
about like it's more relationalthan sales or marketing almost.
Um, but I agree with you.
If you're not solving a problem,if you just I think I've said it
a couple times too on the show,like, don't fall in love with
the product, fall in love withthe problem you're trying to
solve.
And anytime you get down thatrabbit hole of just the product,
the product, the product, or thebrand or whatever, you're
(22:14):
chasing the wrong thing.
You know, love it.
Um, you got a shout out in thechat.
I just want to let you know.
It says Artificial Elise on ChatTPT is great.
Tell us about that.
I'm curious.
SPEAKER_01 (22:27):
Awesome.
Yeah.
So I created my own custom GPT,which seems relatively new
still, but it's really easy todo.
And I've just uploaded, youknow, all of my content.
I'm a content machine, I've beendoing this for more than 35
years.
I've written seven books, I'vegot the podcast.
I just uploaded as much of mycontent as possible.
(22:49):
And so when you ask questions ofartificial Elise, she is
speaking with my voice,essentially.
She's a little bit more verbosethan I am.
I tend to simplify and distillthings into just the one thing
that you should do next.
And she gives a whole plan.
But um, she basically, you know,says my my Elise isms, like
(23:10):
marketing works when you do it,or like all these things that I
say, as well as she knows thesimplest marketing plan.
So she will tell you what to dowithin the context of the
simplest marketing plan.
SPEAKER_00 (23:23):
Very cool.
I love it.
Where can people find that?
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
Well, she comes with the simplest marketing plan.
There you go.
Well, then let's talk about it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:31):
Perfect.
Next question as well.
Great setup.
Thanks, Ruth.
Um, so we have a lot of ummarketing has become just always
right more complex.
The funnels are more complex,the automation, the
distribution, the platforms.
Why in your the simplestmarketing plan, why do you
advocate for simplicity wheneverything's just getting more
(23:53):
complex?
SPEAKER_01 (23:54):
Yeah, because everything's getting more
complex.
SPEAKER_00 (23:56):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:57):
Right.
I mean, the thing is that it'sjust everyone is so overwhelmed
by all the things you could bedoing or should be doing.
I don't think there are anyshoulds.
The the marketing that works isthe marketing you will do.
And the biggest mistake, I wasgonna say this, but it isn't as
related to ideal clients.
But the biggest mistake peoplemake is not developing a
(24:20):
consistent marketing habit.
You must do it every day, everyweek, regularly.
It must be part of what you do.
It has to be kind of integratedinto your work and internalized
so that you don't need thesimplest marketing plan anymore
because you know how to do it,and you do it just as part of
(24:40):
what you do every day.
That is just so important.
And most people ha are in thefeast or famine syndrome because
they're not doing regularmarketing, and they think that
when they're busy, they don'thave time to do it.
But that isn't true.
There are always things you cando, whether it's making comments
on LinkedIn, just a couple.
(25:01):
That's all it takes, or reachingout to a few new people on
LinkedIn.
You don't have to do a wholeblog post or a whole LinkedIn
post or a whole anything, just alittle bit every day will really
take you very far.
SPEAKER_00 (25:15):
Yeah, I agree.
Consistency is so key.
Yeah, I love that.
All right, let's talk about thatmoment when and we had this
exact moment a while back too inour member Slack.
We had a member who had notincreased her rates in five
years with the client.
So she had this client for fiveyears, they loved her and she
had not addressed raising herrates in five years.
(25:37):
How do you guide existingclients through the price
increase without having thatfear of losing them?
Because that was, I think, thebiggest thing for her was like,
oh my gosh, I'm going to say Iwant to increase my rates and
they're just gonna leave me.
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
Yeah.
So um all right, I have a coupledifferent thoughts that I'm
trying to keep separate.
Yeah.
I would say the first one isit's a conversation, it's not an
ultimatum.
So you have to approach it as aconversation.
And one of the ways to do thatis to say, you know, and the
(26:11):
best time to do this actually isthe beginning of the year, and
we're coming up on a new year.
So, you know, let start lettingthem know in November, right?
Um, you know, maybe you'venoticed that I haven't raised my
rates in five years, but whatyou don't know is that all of my
new clients are paying more thanyou are.
(26:34):
And so I'm gonna need to bringyou up closer to that level.
And I'm hoping you want tocontinue working together and
that we can come to a numberthat feels fair to you that's
more in that direction.
What do you think?
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
I love it.
Great script there.
I hope you all were recordingthat, writing that down 100%.
That's such a great piece ofadvice, and it can be such a
scary thing.
So, fun fact, she did go backand she talked about increasing
their rates, kind of similar,sort of a little bit of that
script there that was somethings like the members kind of
helped her work through amassage.
And they were like, of course,like absolutely.
(27:13):
Because here's the thing I'llsay too, as somebody who hires
contractors and employs people,I and maybe it's just because I
am such an advocate, especiallyfor women getting paid their
worth.
Like, as long as I've got thebudget, like I want you to hear,
even if I can't give you whatyou're asking for, I still want
you to ask, you know?
Even if I do it, I still and Irespect you more when you ask.
SPEAKER_01 (27:33):
Absolutely.
And in fact, I like to say it'sa betrayal of yourself if you
don't ask.
SPEAKER_00 (27:40):
Yeah, I agreed 100%.
All right.
Uh let me say one other thing.
Oh, please.
SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
Because sometimes people for some reason think I
have to keep all of my originalclients.
Yeah.
And the reality is that whenyou're just starting out, you're
probably not, again, getting thebest clients.
And so ideally, we want toalways be upgrading, and you do
that through marketing.
So, I mean, it sounds like thisparticular person did want to
(28:09):
keep that particular client, butI would always assume that.
Right, right.
Yeah.
Right.
And if you're doing themarketing, then you can let them
go.
Just let them go.
SPEAKER_00 (28:21):
Right.
Oh my gosh.
That's there, there's a lot ofthere's a lot there to unpack,
obviously, with people firingclients.
But I'm like, isn't that why youwent in on your own to begin
with?
It's like you don't want to workfor people that you don't want
to work for, that don't pay youwell, that don't treat you well.
And then we just double backbecause I get it, bills are real
and things like that.
But you know, a lot of whatyou're saying, you know, how
(28:41):
marketing only works when you doit, staying and doing it
consistently, looking for theaudience that can afford you,
having those transparentconversations ahead of putting
all of the time and effort intoit when you start to have those
money talks, you know, it's notgoing to happen overnight, but
it is going to start to evolveand change the kind of money
that you're making.
And I've I've literally seenlike the numbers and know that
(29:05):
it works on a number of levels.
So yeah.
And then not only that, but likebecause you're getting paid
better, you feel better aboutyourself.
Yeah.
Right.
You feel like you're receivingin the client, what you're like
getting is what you're worthbecause we tie a lot to that,
obviously.
SPEAKER_02 (29:20):
Yeah, no, we do.
SPEAKER_00 (29:22):
I love it.
All right.
So you kind of mentionedearlier, and I'm just curious,
I'm gonna go back to it for asecond.
If you know, you said like a lotof, I think creative
professionals, especially, youknow, don't brag, don't
self-promote.
Um, but also like consistentlymarketing yourself.
I'm just gonna say it, it's hardwhen you do it for everybody
(29:42):
else.
It's kind of like my sister wholike manages a restaurant and
used to work as like a pastrychef and a catering chef.
She hates to cook.
Like, she doesn't want to comehome and cook more.
What do what can us marketers dowhen we spend all day in the
kitchen marketing and we comehome?
We're like, I don't want tomarket more.
SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
Well, first of all, I would do It first thing in the
morning.
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
Ah, love it.
SPEAKER_01 (30:02):
Right?
Don't save it for the end of theday.
Keep the frog, yep.
Exactly.
Um, I don't know.
I mean, I have clients who thethe to me, this is the biggest
win.
When a client says to me, youknow, I used to hate marketing,
but now I love it.
And now the client work is likean interruption to me doing my
(30:22):
marketing.
And what that means is that theyhave found a way to do their own
marketing that feels creativeand genuine and natural and
authentic and fun.
And it can be all those things.
But if you have a mindset ortell yourself, oh, I hate
(30:43):
marketing, I hate to do this, Ihate to do that, I have to do
this, I have to do that, thenyou're not gonna want to do it,
whether it's the morning or thenight.
SPEAKER_00 (30:51):
I love it.
And it reminds me actually too.
I've said it so many times.
I'm like, I am my favoriteclient.
I am the easiest client to workwith and work for.
SPEAKER_02 (30:59):
Whatever I have an idea.
SPEAKER_00 (31:01):
I can just do it, and there's not gonna be a
million revisions.
So I totally get what you'resaying, Elise.
That's so funny.
Uh, let's see.
For solopreneurs, freelancerswho are listening, what is the
biggest difference betweenmarketing yourself versus
marketing a product or service?
So I think this is gonna helpbring some clarity to some of
that self-promotion conversationwe had earlier as well.
SPEAKER_01 (31:22):
Yeah, I mean, part of the problem is when we're
marketing ourselves, we takeeverything really personally.
Yeah, and if there's one thingI've learned in life, actually,
it's that not taking anythingpersonally is better.
Yeah.
Right.
And the the thing that's trickyabout that is it means you don't
(31:43):
take the negative thingspersonally, but it also means
you don't take the positivethings personally.
The compliments are not pats onthe back, they are information
about what the market likes,what the market wants more of,
what you're doing that isworking for the market.
And if you can just takeyourself out of it, it makes it
(32:04):
so much easier.
SPEAKER_00 (32:07):
I love it.
That's so true.
I love it.
That's so true.
That's great.
All right.
Uh, let's see, you've written acouple books, seven, right?
And counting.
Um, including the CreativeProfessionals Guide to Money.
What is the mostcounterintuitive piece of
financial advice that you couldgive a creative?
SPEAKER_01 (32:25):
Uh it's kind of uh along the lines of something I
said before, which is don't askfor the budget.
Yeah.
Meaning um you need to get thatinformation, but when you ask
that specific question, oftenthey won't answer.
So the question to ask instead,after you've said, let's talk
about money, or are you ready totalk about money?
(32:47):
Or here's my favorite part ofthe conversation, the money
part.
Then you say, So are youthinking 500, 5,000, or 50,000?
Right?
You just skip over the questionthat is kind of open-ended and
just put numbers in front ofthem.
That's really the best way toget a number.
SPEAKER_00 (33:08):
I love it.
Super helpful.
Excited to hear if you all tryit.
All right, I've got one morequestion before we go into our
power round.
Live listeners, don't be shy.
If you have comments, questions,drop them in the chat for Elise.
We know this is a hot, hot topicfor y'all.
Um, all right.
Looking at the creative economytoday, how has the conversation
around pricing and clientrelationships have evolved since
(33:29):
you started your website andyour business and everything?
SPEAKER_01 (33:32):
Yeah, well, I started in 1988, so a lot has
changed.
Maybe a little.
Maybe a little.
There was no internet at thetime.
So um, that was one thing.
But I mean, I feel like there'sa lot more competition now than
ever before.
Plus, the competition is a clickaway, as they and so that makes
(33:56):
marketing more important.
In the past, people would say,especially creatives, oh, my
work should speak for itself.
If they if they want me, they'llcome to me.
SPEAKER_00 (34:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:06):
All of these things that were kind of true at the
time.
Sure.
There wasn't all that muchcompetition.
But that's one of the thingsthat changed.
And also, because of that, Ithink you have to show your
value more than the work.
Yeah.
Right?
The value in the servicesoffered, but also as a service
(34:28):
provider, which means how youwork.
Because sometimes, like withthis client I was referring to
before, who said, you know,don't base your decision on just
the money, because she wants toshow that she's very responsive,
she's a clear communicator, shemeets deadlines, she meets
budgets.
(34:49):
All of those things about howyou work are sometimes actually
even more important than thefinal deliverable.
Because the client, if they'renot an expert designer in this
case, they're not going to beable to tell if the work is good
or mediocre.
They can probably tell bad work,but some people can't.
SPEAKER_00 (35:06):
Right.
Yeah.
No, I think I think that's sosmart.
Um, showing that value up front,whether it's through case
studies, whether it's throughyour list of services and your
process and like that whiteglove.
I think we've talked about thattoo, is like hospitality as a
way to look at and run yourbusiness.
It's not just for hospitalitybusinesses.
There's a reason why people paya premium for certain kinds of
hotels or experiences.
(35:27):
It's because they know they'regoing to be seen, heard, and
taken care of, and they'rewilling to pay for that.
So if you can show that, youknow, it's going to put you
above the rest.
All right.
We did get a question from oneof our live listeners, which is
fantastic.
We love it.
How to market uh when you'repivoting a crew your career or
adding new services that youdon't have a whole lot of
experience on.
This is a great question.
SPEAKER_01 (35:48):
Yeah.
Um, first of all, you have toyou you don't necessarily have
to come out and say, I have noexperience, right?
You don't necessarily want to bethat transparent.
Right.
But you do have to show that youknow what they need.
And actually, um, I read oncesomewhere it said, if you can
(36:12):
describe the client's problem,or the better and more
articulately, you can describethe client's problem, the more
they will trust you.
Which means it's not aboutproviding the solution, it's
about understanding the problem.
SPEAKER_00 (36:24):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (36:25):
So I think that is really important.
And then, you know, if you haveto create some samples on your
own to show that you can dothis, even if you weren't
necessarily commissioned to doit for money by a client, I
think that's okay.
And I also think there arepeople who will give you a shot.
You just have to, you know, beas honest as you can and don't
(36:47):
be afraid of, oh my God, oh mygod, oh my god, I have no
samples.
SPEAKER_00 (36:50):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (36:51):
Again, that isn't necessarily always the most
important thing.
And one other thought, if youhave related or adjacent
experience that you can apply,then you talk that up basically.
SPEAKER_00 (37:04):
Yeah, I was getting ready to add that, Bill, 100% at
least.
Yeah, transferable skills are athing, people you have more
experience than you're givingyourself credit for.
Stop minimizing and diminishingyour overall experience.
I can't tell you how many womenwill come and be like, I have 20
years of marketing experience,but I've never done um, you
know, this kind of particularad.
(37:26):
And I'm like, but you've run adsbefore, right?
Like, hello, LinkedIn learning.
Like, there's so many ways tolike learn and train and scale
yourself up.
Like, that's the beauty of ourorganization too, right?
Is like, I can't tell youanybody that's like, I studied
advertising and design inschool.
None of my friends thatgraduated with me are doing the
jobs, you know, with thatdegree.
And very few women that come tous have that degree.
(37:48):
Um, they are kind of usingtransferable skills, career
pivots, and then self-taught.
Um, because the space that'schanging so much so fast, you
know, there's really no way youcan just go and get some degree.
I mean, you can.
And we definitely have memberswho have gone and gotten their
masters.
Um, I kind of am curious to likecircle back with them and be
like, are you a better marketernow that you spend another like
(38:10):
three, four years in school?
I'm curious.
I love school though.
Don't get me wrong.
We'll go to school forever here.
We love learning.
SPEAKER_01 (38:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I mean, at this pace,actually, by the time you finish
school, things will be sodifferent.
Again.
Yeah.
That I I don't think that'snecessarily the answer.
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
Yeah.
No, I feel you.
I feel you.
All right, let's get to ourpower round questions then.
So these are some fun littlelightning round questions for
you.
I will keep an eye on the chatin case we have any more
questions from our listeningaudience.
What is your go-to response whenpotential clients say your
rate's too high?
SPEAKER_01 (38:42):
Tell me what you have in mind.
What can you spend?
And I'll tell you what I can dofor that.
SPEAKER_00 (38:49):
All right.
Fill in the blank.
My biggest money mistake createor the biggest money mistake
creative professionals make isassuming you know what your
prospect can pay.
SPEAKER_01 (39:01):
Ooh, that's without asking.
That's yeah, that.
Right?
For some reason, people say, Oh,I had a feeling they couldn't
afford this, so I charge that.
How do you know that?
SPEAKER_00 (39:13):
Right.
Exactly.
What is one marketing activitythat takes five minutes that
most people never do?
SPEAKER_01 (39:19):
Making comments on LinkedIn.
Yeah, that was a good advice.
Yeah.
And and really, I mean, thefirst reason people think
posting is the thing.
But and then they get umdisappointed or frustrated when
nobody comments or um likes it.
Those are vanity metrics.
You really I mean, there areonly certain types of posts that
(39:40):
get engagement.
You kind of have to ask aquestion if you want people to
respond.
So um commenting actually is oneof the best things you can do.
I think it's even better thanposting.
SPEAKER_00 (39:52):
Agreed.
Yeah, it's so funny.
One of our members bought me amug that says, Thanks for liking
my post, because I am that girl.
Like I will literally lay thereand bed it before night and I'm
like, oh, this is cool.
This is great.
Comment, like, comment like.
And the API favors that peopleit wants to see that you are
engaging.
They want to see that you'reDMing with people, they want to
see that you're leavingcomments.
This goes for LinkedIn,Facebook, and Instagram, which
(40:12):
are pretty prevalent in ourspaces and what we do to
promote.
So, yeah, and I mean it reallyjust again, it shows that you
are engaging.
It's not a one-sidedconversation, it's not about
you, it's about them, like yousaid earlier, right?
unknown (40:23):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (40:24):
Love it.
Okay, let's see.
What is the best piece of adviceyou wish you had known when you
started your business?
SPEAKER_01 (40:31):
Um when talking about pricing, to start high.
Right?
Often, again, people are afraidthey're they feel like they need
it, and so they don't starthigh, imagining without having
had the money conversation,number one, that uh the person
(40:51):
can't afford whatever it isyou're gonna charge.
And the reality is that you haveto start high so that you have
room to negotiate.
Because if you don't negotiate,then they you lose their
respect, also, right?
You don't you should not justtake whatever they offer.
That then you're kind of peggedas a doormat.
SPEAKER_00 (41:10):
Yeah, don't start at the floor, right?
I had Cindy Gallup on here oncewho uh speaking of LinkedIn.
If y'all aren't following her onLinkedIn, she's the best.
And she was like, make likestart with a number that almost
makes you laugh out loud whenyou say it.
That's how you know you're highenough.
Like you need to feel like it'sso ridiculous.
And the sad thing is for women,that number is probably about
what the average white guy namedChad would probably charge and
(41:31):
not think twice.
SPEAKER_01 (41:32):
And actually, I have a marketing corollary to that.
Yeah.
Because often people don't dotheir marketing or don't reach
out to someone because theydon't want to be perceived as
that, you know, used carsalesman, as they say.
And I always say to my people,there's no way you would even,
(41:53):
you don't even have it in you tobe that used car salesman.
Yeah.
You just have to do a littlemore than you're doing, but
you're not even close to thatline.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (42:02):
You're not in their, they're not in their DMs like
every other day.
That is so true.
Um, and I think again, like weboth said a little bit earlier,
if you are focused on them andhelping them solve a problem,
yeah.
It's not you being a pain.
It's just you being present andready for them if they need the
help that they need.
SPEAKER_01 (42:18):
And they thank you when the timing is right.
That's the thing that willsurprise you.
The thank you for beingpersistent.
SPEAKER_00 (42:24):
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
All right, well, oh, here we go.
One more question.
All right, what's the bestapproach uh to reach your
audience?
For instance, my targetprospects are SaaS companies.
How can I approach them forvideo animation services?
SPEAKER_01 (42:41):
Well, you have to either know or ask Artificial
Elise or Chat GPT what are theirpain points when it comes to
video animation services, andthen reach out to them about
that and ask do they outsourcethese services?
Not complicated.
SPEAKER_00 (43:00):
Keep it simple.
I love it.
That's a great question and agreat answer, Elise.
I love it so much.
All right, Elise, thank youagain.
Sharing all your wisdom and yourexperience with the community
today.
Your insights on helping toattract clients and having
confidence in moneyconversations is uh what a lot
of us need to be hearing rightnow, especially like you said,
as we're coming to the end ofthe year, starting a new year.
(43:21):
Um, for anyone who wants to diveinto Elise's work more deeply,
you can find her at marketingdash mentor.com.
You can check her out, check outher mentor marketing mentor
podcast and grab or grab quicktips from marketing dash
mentorships.com.
And don't forget to connect withher, of course, on LinkedIn as
well.
Like, comment, right, friends.
Yes.
And remember the clients are outthere, but they really need you
(43:44):
all, right?
Um, as Elise reminded us, theydon't just land in your lap.
You have to take some action,even if it's little things every
day.
So thank you again, Elise, forjoining us.
And thank you, everyone, forlistening.
We appreciate you all.
SPEAKER_01 (43:55):
You're welcome.
My pleasure.
Thanks for the invitation.
SPEAKER_00 (43:58):
Of course, my pleasure, Elise.
All right, everyone.
That's all we've got for today.
Um, for those who are listeninglive, enjoy your Halloween.
Have fun, stay safe out there,and we will see you next time.
Until then, keep asking, keepgiving, and keep growing.
SPEAKER_02 (44:19):
Produced by Heartcast Media.
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly power
lounge.
This is your place to hearauthentic conversations from
those who have power to share.
My name is Amy Vaughn and I amthe owner and chief empowerment
officer at Together Digital, adiverse and collaborative
community of women who work indigital and choose to share
their knowledge, power, andconnections.
Join the movement atTogetherIndigital.com.
(00:31):
Hello, everyone.
And today I am thrilled towelcome Elise Bennin, a
nationally recognized businesscoach who has been helping
creative professionals breakfree from undercharge over
deliver cycles for decades.
As the founder ofmarketing-mentor.com, Elise has
become the go-to resource forsolopreneurs and freelancers
(00:53):
seeking better projects withbigger budgets.
A national speaker and theauthor of seven books, including
The Creative Professionals Guideto Money, Elise brings wealth
and a wealth of practical wisdomin today's conversation.
Since 2008, she has been sharinginsights as the Marketer Mentor
Podcast.
So be sure to check that out.
(01:14):
And her signature program, TheSimplest Marketing Plan, has
helped countless creativesmarket smarter, not harder.
Sounds like music to our ears.
For our community members whoare tired of undercharging and
already attract or ready toattract clients who are truly
ready to value their expertise,today's conversation promises to
be a game changer for you.
(01:34):
Elise will share how to identifyand attract the right clients,
why marketing only works whenyou actually do it, and the
mindset shifts that it takes formoney conversations to make them
so much easier.
Thank you, Amy.
It's great to be here.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Happy Friday, everybody.
(01:55):
And for all of our livelisteners, welcome.
Happy Halloween.
Elise was totally in the spiritof things.
And I know that you are whothose who are listening to the
podcast can't see it, but we'vegot we've got Captain Elise
here.
She's dressed up and ready togo.
Um, so we can talk about thatspooky, spooky, scary thing.
Money, right?
Um, so yeah, thank you so muchfor Elise for being such a good
sport and being here today.
(02:16):
Let's start with a good oldelephant of the room, which is
um, you know, so many of ourmembers face this.
It's it's an abundantconversation that's kind of
always going in our Slackchannel.
Um, undercharging andoverdelivering.
What do you feel is the rootcause behind why creative
professionals consistentlyundervalue their work?
SPEAKER_01 (02:33):
So I want to start with a quote from a good friend
of mine who works on WallStreet.
And she says, like me a littleless and pay me a little more.
And I love that becauseespecially for women, right?
There's this people-pleasingthing we tend to do, and it gets
(02:55):
all tied up in our quote unquoteself-worth, which I always put
in quotation marks, becausereally there's no such thing as
that, in my opinion.
And we're talking aboutbusiness.
This is business, and you haveto understand that and
essentially kind of takeyourself out of it and think
about it as some other entity,if necessary.
(03:18):
And I just had a thought thismorning, actually, which is
probably going to inform thenext year of my content.
But this idea that you have tostart with the right mindset.
But what exactly is a mindset?
That was the question in mymind.
I'm curious what you think ofthat.
But my answer was it's thethings we say to ourselves.
(03:39):
Yes.
And that we have total controlover and we can change.
And it's more than affirmations.
I'm not talking aboutaffirmations.
It's like understanding when youhave just said to yourself, Oh,
I can't charge that, right?
That kind of thing.
It's the negative that we say toourselves that we have to
surface and then replace withsomething better.
SPEAKER_00 (04:02):
Yeah, 100%.
Like awareness is the key,right?
Listening to that internalvoice, acknowledging the
presence of it, and thenacknowledging that tone and that
internal narrative.
I agree.
I think that's exactly whatmindset is.
And it's something that you cantrain and coach to be different.
You know, I think I tell my kidsa lot, just because you think it
doesn't make it true, but youcan think it into being true.
Like you just have to letyourself think it.
(04:23):
So it is a total mindset thing.
Um, and I love that.
Like me a little less, pay me alittle more or a lot more.
I want that tattooed on me.
Yes, exactly.
That's a great quote.
I'm not gonna forget that one.
And y'all know me that arelistening.
I love a good quote.
Cool.
Awesome.
All right, next question.
(04:43):
You know, like we talked aboutthis being a little bit of a
cycle sometimes, right?
Of falling into the space whereyou aren't charging enough or
you're um you're you're goingout of scope a lot with clients.
You know, sometimes the workfeels hard to define, and you
actually hit more than nail onthe head.
It's the people pleasing part.
(05:04):
Um, and and you talk a lot aboutattracting clients who pay you
what you're worth.
That feels sometimes impossibleand unreachable for some that
might be listening.
How do you help someone identifywhat they're actually worth
versus what they think they canget away with charging?
Because there's like always thislike weird line, right, as to
what we think that could be,should be, looks like,
(05:25):
especially when we don't talkabout pricing often.
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
Yeah, it's true.
Um, I guess I would start byjust repeating what I said
before, which is that I don'tthink there is such a thing as
what you're worth.
So if you can realize that, andthen the next step is what do I
need to earn?
You know, that's really theimportant thing is do you know
(05:49):
how much you need to earn tobreak even?
You should, and to make aprofit, you should.
And then you work with thosenumbers to basically find the
people who can pay that.
And so this is one of the thingsI call a pricing problem with a
marketing solution.
Because often people try to, Idon't know, hope or convince the
(06:15):
people they're talking to to paymore.
It's unlikely they can even.
And we're usually, unless wehave very proactively and
intentionally pursued theprospects, the ideal prospects
that we really want.
The ones we have are probablynot them, most of them.
And so we have to do themarketing to number one,
(06:36):
identify the people who have thebig bucks, and that's a guess,
because so then you have to gothrough the marketing process
and get to the proposal processto figure out and have that
conversation about whether ornot they can afford the kinds of
numbers you're talking about.
And then you know to pursue morelike that.
(06:57):
So, I mean, one solution that Ioften advise is if you have one
client who is your ideal clientand who can pay what you want to
charge, then clone them,basically, right?
Use your marketing to clonethem.
And AI is actually really goodat this.
I've been teaching a lot ofpeople lately how to find
clients with AI.
(07:18):
And all you have to do is put inlike, here's the website and the
LinkedIn profile of my idealclient.
Find me 10 more like them.
SPEAKER_00 (07:30):
That's brilliant.
I do love using AI for a littlebit of digging for that.
I did something kind of similarwhere like I went and found
LinkedIn profiles because youcould download them as PDFs of
people that were our idealclients or are like most kind of
like engaged long-term members,and then put those into an AI to
say, like, what does thisdemographic look like?
What does the psychographic looklike?
(07:52):
And that really helped me aswell because it as you were
talking to it kind of remindedme of one of my friends.
I have a couple friends who owndifferent catering businesses.
This is like a great real worldexample, right?
And they are they're bothcaterers, but and they're both
phenomenal women, but they bothserve very different markets,
but they're both caterers.
And one of them is she callsherself all inclusive because
(08:13):
they will work with any budget,any timeline.
I mean, they just stretch andcompress and come expand, like
whatever you need, they will do.
Shout out to MagnificentMorsels.
And then my other friend,Salima, Soleil Kitchen, she is
like, I charge for bougie.
Like I am bougie.
You are going to get premiumquality food.
(08:35):
You're going to have anexperience.
And if you can't afford me,that's a you problem, not a me
problem, because that just meansthere's other caterers for you.
And so two exact same comp typeof businesses, both owned by
really amazing women, bothphenomenal cooks, but both are
clearly going after a different,a different audience based on
the kinds of clients and whatthey want to get paid.
Now, Crystal, you know, withMagnificent Morsels, her
(08:57):
business model makes it suchthat they can be all-inclusive
and work within just about anybudget.
Um, but that takes a lot of timeand effort on her part.
You know, there's a lot ofoperations to that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:07):
Yeah.
And it's not just that they'retwo different businesses, those
are two totally differentmarkets and so require a
different type of marketing.
And the thing you're also makingme think of is that price is
often a marketing tool.
It's a positioning tool, right?
And often people think, well, ifI give a low price, they'll hire
(09:29):
me or I won't lose them.
And actually, there are manyclients, especially those who
want value and quality, who willhear a low a price, a low price
and think, oh, that's too low.
It can't be any good.
And they won't choose you.
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
A hundred percent.
I have feel I feel like I'veheard and seen that happen.
I had one of our members umreach out to me a while back.
She got um this amazingopportunity to do the cover and
then a spread of a magazine, alocal parenting magazine, um,
for a year.
And she sent me the estimate,and this is the thing I love
about Together Digital and usjust talking about prices.
(10:04):
She's like, I don't really know.
Am I charging the right amount?
And she sent it to me.
I was like, oh my gosh, you needto double this price.
And I think she was just, shewanted it so bad.
She wanted to remove thebarriers of them having any
reason to say no.
And I mean, she was approachedabout this project specifically.
It's not like they were biddingit out.
They literally went to her andsaid, We want you to do this.
And I cleared that up with herand I was like, dude, double it.
(10:27):
She doubled it.
They didn't even bat an eye.
Right.
They're like, okay, great, let'sgo.
You know, I think sometimes welet price be more of a barrier.
And like you said, we don't goahead.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
Here's the mistake I think she made, which is not
having the money conversationbefore she did the proposal.
Right.
That's why my refrigerator says,let's talk about money.
Because in that very firstconversation, you have to talk
about money.
And you have to not sayactually, what's your budget?
(10:57):
Because most people don't knowor they won't tell you.
You say, Well, are you thinking500, 5,000, or 50,000?
Here's my spectrum.
Tell me where you are on myspectrum, and then we can talk.
And then you'll know if they canafford you.
unknown (11:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
I love it.
Yeah.
And that answered my nextquestion perfectly.
Like, you know, when we'retrying to have the money
conversation, it can feel like astruggle and it feels like a
game, right?
It's a guessing game, it's abidding game.
But I think it's a zero-sum gamefor both you and the client
because you want to provide theclient with the most value
possible, right?
Typically, most of these womenthat are working here within
Together Digital are.
(11:33):
And so to try to meet that need,but then not lose your backside
is like a whole nother thing.
So, what do you think themindset shift is that it takes
to be able to feel comfortablediscussing budgets and rates?
Because I think people, as youeven start to say it, they're
like, ah.
SPEAKER_01 (11:48):
Yeah.
Well, first of all, going backto um one of the examples you
gave, you have to not feel likeyou need it.
You have to go into thatconversation thinking, if I get
it, great.
If I don't, it's fine.
And again, this is a kind of apricing solution pricing problem
with a marketing solution.
Because if you've got lots ofother irons in the fire, then
(12:10):
you won't feel like you musthave this one.
And so that I want to call itdesperation because often people
do this desperation pricingbecause they desperately want
it, whether they desperatelyneed it or not is a different
issue.
But you do this desperationpricing and the other people can
feel it.
Yeah.
And so you have to go in with avery like, all right, kind of
(12:33):
experimental.
Like this is an experiment.
I'm gonna try putting thesenumbers on the table and see if
they answer.
And because I know sometimespeople say, Well, what if they
won't tell you if it's 500,5,000, or 50,000?
Then you say, All right, howmany zeros in your head?
SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
Right.
Right?
SPEAKER_01 (12:51):
Like there are other ways.
If I told you it was gonna be20,000, would you fall off your
chair?
There's so many ways to say itto bring a little humor to the
conversation because they're notcomfortable talking about money
either for the most part.
SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
Well, and it always blows my mind as a now running
multiple businesses that peopledon't have people don't have,
they say they don't havebudgets.
I you have a budget.
And it's not going to hurt youto be transparent about it.
Because here's the thing I find,at least with most independent
service providers that are maybeusually referred or vetted or
trusted, is that for me, it'slike, how can I make the most of
(13:26):
your money and my time?
Right.
And so I'm not looking to gougeyou or overcharge you.
I'm really just looking to say,how can we be most effective
with the money that you have?
And so without that line ofsight, it's really, really hard
to be a good partner, you know,to do what needs to be done to
hit the goals if you don't havethat number in mind.
(13:46):
So to me as well, I mean, Idon't take it kind of as a red
flag.
I don't know how you feel aboutit, Lisa.
If somebody's like, I have noclue what my budget is, 50 or
50,000, I'd be like, Yeah,you're not my client.
SPEAKER_01 (13:56):
You're not for me.
That's true.
But also sometimes they don'tknow they know, right?
So if you say what's yourbudget, and they'd uh like, I
don't really know what whatshould this cost?
Because they've never done itbefore, perhaps.
Um but this the reason I say500, 5,000, 50,000 is because as
soon as you put some numbers infront of them, they know their
(14:16):
budget.
All of a sudden, right, it popsinto their head.
So oh no, 50,000, obviously not.
5,000, that's a little high.
We were thinking more likethree.
Okay, thank you.
Right, but I needed to know.
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
That's a great strategy.
Well, hopefully some of ourlisteners will try it.
Also, live listeners, don'tforget you can use the chat.
So if you have any questions,um, this is a big topic among
our community.
So if you want to drop aquestion in the chat for Elise,
you can definitely drop it inand I'll make sure we get it
asked before we finish.
Go ahead, Elise, so you'regetting ready to come again.
SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
Yeah, I um I had a conversation with a client this
morning who was working on aproposal for a prospect of hers,
someone new she'd never workedwith.
And we came up with kind of aninteresting solution also that I
think would be helpful becauseshe had basically given
examples.
She's a designer, a graphicdesigner, given examples uh but
(15:05):
without any pricing to thisprospect who was interested.
So the prospect came back andsaid, This looks good.
I'm talking to other people, Ineed some prices.
And she didn't want to scare theperson away, basically, by
putting prices on.
So what we came up with in termsof language is I know you're
looking at other people, but ifour work is what you prefer,
(15:30):
then uh I'm hoping to avoid thatyou make a decision based only
on the numbers.
If you like the work, then let'stalk.
Because essentially, if you tellus what you can pay, we'll tell
you what you can get for that.
And so I kind of like the ideaof just being really honest and
saying, please don't make adecision based only on these
(15:53):
numbers, right?
Before we talk.
Why couldn't you say that?
SPEAKER_00 (15:57):
A hundred percent.
I love that so much.
I think transparency is so keybecause again, I'm from both
sides.
It just allows that transparencyallows for a better, stronger
partnership.
SPEAKER_02 (16:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:05):
You know, having worked with as many clients and
varying budgets as I have over15 years, the best work I've
actually done never came fromthe massive budgets that had six
or even seven zeros behind them.
It actually came from some ofthose smaller projects where we
were truly aligned with theclient on like the vision, the
purpose, the outcome.
And then we were really smartabout how we use that money.
(16:26):
And at the end, it was a win-winfor everybody because everything
was clearly defined on theupfront.
Um, we've had this conversationlast year at our national
conference, and I just flashedback to Sarah Grace Moore, who I
think is she's also been on thepodcast as well.
And they own a company that'slike um People Prosperity and
then the Mackie Group, whichdoes like fractional CFO work,
but also like personal financeum mentorship and support.
(16:50):
And her mom started thebusiness, and it's really all
about understanding yourrelationship with money and
finding joy in money andcelebrating money, which is
something we are not veryconditioned to do.
Um, so I definitely recommendyou all check out the book that
Mackie has put out.
The other thing Sarah Grace hadsaid at one point was, you know,
(17:11):
a lot of creatives have atendency, because she's a very
big passion.
I should introduce you guys,actually, at least.
Um, she's so great and you guyswouldn't hit it off so well.
But she's always saying, like,creatives, like she's such a
passion for creatives.
She's a former designer, went toDAP at UC and all this, and now
she's in finance.
And um, so yeah, she was alwayslike, Don't charge per hour,
charge per the equity that youare providing.
(17:32):
Like, what is the value of whatyou are bringing?
SPEAKER_01 (17:36):
And at the same time, I charge hourly.
Yeah.
So it's different, it reallydepends on what you're
delivering.
But the problem with hourlyrates, especially for something
tangible or electronic thatyou're going to deliver, is that
nobody knows how long thingstake.
And so an hourly rate isn't aprice, number one.
(18:00):
Plus, the better you get, thefaster you get, the less you
make.
And how does that make sense?
So I think, and what I advise isum I mean, it's all about the
relationship and theconversation.
So if you can gauge through thatfirst conversation, number one,
(18:23):
when you ask 500, 5,000 or50,000, you're not actually
getting their budget.
You're getting the value thatthey ascribe to the thing you're
doing.
That's what you need to know,right?
How do you value this?
Because if you don't value itthe way I value it, then no
matter what price I'm gonna giveyou, it's not gonna be the right
price.
(18:45):
So instead of so so when someonesays, What's your hourly rate?
My general response or advisedresponse is I don't work that
way.
It's not good for either you orme.
Instead, I'm gonna give you afixed price or a range, and
you'll know how much it's gonnacost, and I'll know how much I'm
gonna make, and it'll be great.
(19:06):
And if, for example, the scopestarts to creep, then I promise
I will come up to you and talkto you about it.
And if we need to renegotiate,we will, but there will be open
communication about it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
So, Lisa, you've been running um
marketing-mentor.com for yearsnow.
What is the most commonmarketing mistake you see
creative professionals makingthat might actually repel their
ideal clients?
SPEAKER_01 (19:33):
Um, I guess the biggest mistake I would say is
well, let me start by sayingself-promotion and marketing is
not about you.
That's one of the myths.
You think when you're marketingyourself, you're supposed to be
talking about yourself.
Right.
And some people say, My mothertold me not to brag, or, you
(19:55):
know, I don't I don't know howto talk about myself.
There are all these reasons.
But the reality is thatmarketing is not about you, it's
about them.
It's about their needs, theirpain, and only about you to the
extent that you're gonna solvetheir problems or cure their
pain.
And this is um, I mean, itsounds it makes sense, right?
(20:20):
And it sounds logical, but Ifeel like there's something
about the way our brains arewired that we are just so
self-centered, maybe it's anAmerican thing, I don't know,
but we are so self-centered thateven when we understand that
intellectually, it's really hardto implement it through our
marketing.
And so when I say that, I mean,for example, um, what was it I
(20:44):
was looking at?
Oh yeah, someone sent me uh aChatGPT thread about a
conversation that he had abouthis own marketing.
He asked ChatGPT, what should Ido in my marketing?
And the the GPT said, Um, do youwant me to give you an outreach
message that you should use forthis market you're interested
in?
And he said yes, and I read it,and it was all about him.
(21:07):
And they don't care about you,right?
You have to start about thething that they struggle with or
the thing that they need or thething that you know that will
make them say, This is exactlywho we need because they really
get us.
Yes.
So short answer making yourmarketing all about you is the
(21:28):
biggest mistake.
SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
Yes, I agree.
I would add to that though, um,we had an episode, I think it
was two weeks ago now, and wetalked about storytelling.
I think where you might fit intothe marketing message, and
again, it's not making you thehero, I 100% agree with you, but
it is speaking to how you haveexperienced that pain point and
leading with a story that makesit relatable, but also builds
(21:52):
that trust and credibility that,like, I know, and it's more
about like it's more relationalthan sales or marketing almost.
Um, but I agree with you.
If you're not solving a problem,if you just I think I've said it
a couple times too on the show,like, don't fall in love with
the product, fall in love withthe problem you're trying to
solve.
And anytime you get down thatrabbit hole of just the product,
the product, the product, or thebrand or whatever, you're
(22:14):
chasing the wrong thing.
You know, love it.
Um, you got a shout out in thechat.
I just want to let you know.
It says Artificial Elise on ChatTPT is great.
Tell us about that.
I'm curious.
SPEAKER_01 (22:27):
Awesome.
Yeah.
So I created my own custom GPT,which seems relatively new
still, but it's really easy todo.
And I've just uploaded, youknow, all of my content.
I'm a content machine, I've beendoing this for more than 35
years.
I've written seven books, I'vegot the podcast.
I just uploaded as much of mycontent as possible.
(22:49):
And so when you ask questions ofartificial Elise, she is
speaking with my voice,essentially.
She's a little bit more verbosethan I am.
I tend to simplify and distillthings into just the one thing
that you should do next.
And she gives a whole plan.
But um, she basically, you know,says my my Elise isms, like
(23:10):
marketing works when you do it,or like all these things that I
say, as well as she knows thesimplest marketing plan.
So she will tell you what to dowithin the context of the
simplest marketing plan.
SPEAKER_00 (23:23):
Very cool.
I love it.
Where can people find that?
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
Well, she comes with the simplest marketing plan.
There you go.
Well, then let's talk about it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:31):
Perfect.
Next question as well.
Great setup.
Thanks, Ruth.
Um, so we have a lot of ummarketing has become just always
right more complex.
The funnels are more complex,the automation, the
distribution, the platforms.
Why in your the simplestmarketing plan, why do you
advocate for simplicity wheneverything's just getting more
(23:53):
complex?
SPEAKER_01 (23:54):
Yeah, because everything's getting more
complex.
SPEAKER_00 (23:56):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:57):
Right.
I mean, the thing is that it'sjust everyone is so overwhelmed
by all the things you could bedoing or should be doing.
I don't think there are anyshoulds.
The the marketing that works isthe marketing you will do.
And the biggest mistake, I wasgonna say this, but it isn't as
related to ideal clients.
But the biggest mistake peoplemake is not developing a
(24:20):
consistent marketing habit.
You must do it every day, everyweek, regularly.
It must be part of what you do.
It has to be kind of integratedinto your work and internalized
so that you don't need thesimplest marketing plan anymore
because you know how to do it,and you do it just as part of
(24:40):
what you do every day.
That is just so important.
And most people ha are in thefeast or famine syndrome because
they're not doing regularmarketing, and they think that
when they're busy, they don'thave time to do it.
But that isn't true.
There are always things you cando, whether it's making comments
on LinkedIn, just a couple.
(25:01):
That's all it takes, or reachingout to a few new people on
LinkedIn.
You don't have to do a wholeblog post or a whole LinkedIn
post or a whole anything, just alittle bit every day will really
take you very far.
SPEAKER_00 (25:15):
Yeah, I agree.
Consistency is so key.
Yeah, I love that.
All right, let's talk about thatmoment when and we had this
exact moment a while back too inour member Slack.
We had a member who had notincreased her rates in five
years with the client.
So she had this client for fiveyears, they loved her and she
had not addressed raising herrates in five years.
(25:37):
How do you guide existingclients through the price
increase without having thatfear of losing them?
Because that was, I think, thebiggest thing for her was like,
oh my gosh, I'm going to say Iwant to increase my rates and
they're just gonna leave me.
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
Yeah.
So um all right, I have a coupledifferent thoughts that I'm
trying to keep separate.
Yeah.
I would say the first one isit's a conversation, it's not an
ultimatum.
So you have to approach it as aconversation.
And one of the ways to do thatis to say, you know, and the
(26:11):
best time to do this actually isthe beginning of the year, and
we're coming up on a new year.
So, you know, let start lettingthem know in November, right?
Um, you know, maybe you'venoticed that I haven't raised my
rates in five years, but whatyou don't know is that all of my
new clients are paying more thanyou are.
(26:34):
And so I'm gonna need to bringyou up closer to that level.
And I'm hoping you want tocontinue working together and
that we can come to a numberthat feels fair to you that's
more in that direction.
What do you think?
SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
I love it.
Great script there.
I hope you all were recordingthat, writing that down 100%.
That's such a great piece ofadvice, and it can be such a
scary thing.
So, fun fact, she did go backand she talked about increasing
their rates, kind of similar,sort of a little bit of that
script there that was somethings like the members kind of
helped her work through amassage.
And they were like, of course,like absolutely.
(27:13):
Because here's the thing I'llsay too, as somebody who hires
contractors and employs people,I and maybe it's just because I
am such an advocate, especiallyfor women getting paid their
worth.
Like, as long as I've got thebudget, like I want you to hear,
even if I can't give you whatyou're asking for, I still want
you to ask, you know?
Even if I do it, I still and Irespect you more when you ask.
SPEAKER_01 (27:33):
Absolutely.
And in fact, I like to say it'sa betrayal of yourself if you
don't ask.
SPEAKER_00 (27:40):
Yeah, I agreed 100%.
All right.
Uh let me say one other thing.
Oh, please.
SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
Because sometimes people for some reason think I
have to keep all of my originalclients.
Yeah.
And the reality is that whenyou're just starting out, you're
probably not, again, getting thebest clients.
And so ideally, we want toalways be upgrading, and you do
that through marketing.
So, I mean, it sounds like thisparticular person did want to
(28:09):
keep that particular client, butI would always assume that.
Right, right.
Yeah.
Right.
And if you're doing themarketing, then you can let them
go.
Just let them go.
SPEAKER_00 (28:21):
Right.
Oh my gosh.
That's there, there's a lot ofthere's a lot there to unpack,
obviously, with people firingclients.
But I'm like, isn't that why youwent in on your own to begin
with?
It's like you don't want to workfor people that you don't want
to work for, that don't pay youwell, that don't treat you well.
And then we just double backbecause I get it, bills are real
and things like that.
But you know, a lot of whatyou're saying, you know, how
(28:41):
marketing only works when you doit, staying and doing it
consistently, looking for theaudience that can afford you,
having those transparentconversations ahead of putting
all of the time and effort intoit when you start to have those
money talks, you know, it's notgoing to happen overnight, but
it is going to start to evolveand change the kind of money
that you're making.
And I've I've literally seenlike the numbers and know that
(29:05):
it works on a number of levels.
So yeah.
And then not only that, but likebecause you're getting paid
better, you feel better aboutyourself.
Yeah.
Right.
You feel like you're receivingin the client, what you're like
getting is what you're worthbecause we tie a lot to that,
obviously.
SPEAKER_02 (29:20):
Yeah, no, we do.
SPEAKER_00 (29:22):
I love it.
All right.
So you kind of mentionedearlier, and I'm just curious,
I'm gonna go back to it for asecond.
If you know, you said like a lotof, I think creative
professionals, especially, youknow, don't brag, don't
self-promote.
Um, but also like consistentlymarketing yourself.
I'm just gonna say it, it's hardwhen you do it for everybody
(29:42):
else.
It's kind of like my sister wholike manages a restaurant and
used to work as like a pastrychef and a catering chef.
She hates to cook.
Like, she doesn't want to comehome and cook more.
What do what can us marketers dowhen we spend all day in the
kitchen marketing and we comehome?
We're like, I don't want tomarket more.
SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
Well, first of all, I would do It first thing in the
morning.
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
Ah, love it.
SPEAKER_01 (30:02):
Right?
Don't save it for the end of theday.
Keep the frog, yep.
Exactly.
Um, I don't know.
I mean, I have clients who thethe to me, this is the biggest
win.
When a client says to me, youknow, I used to hate marketing,
but now I love it.
And now the client work is likean interruption to me doing my
(30:22):
marketing.
And what that means is that theyhave found a way to do their own
marketing that feels creativeand genuine and natural and
authentic and fun.
And it can be all those things.
But if you have a mindset ortell yourself, oh, I hate
(30:43):
marketing, I hate to do this, Ihate to do that, I have to do
this, I have to do that, thenyou're not gonna want to do it,
whether it's the morning or thenight.
SPEAKER_00 (30:51):
I love it.
And it reminds me actually too.
I've said it so many times.
I'm like, I am my favoriteclient.
I am the easiest client to workwith and work for.
SPEAKER_02 (30:59):
Whatever I have an idea.
SPEAKER_00 (31:01):
I can just do it, and there's not gonna be a
million revisions.
So I totally get what you'resaying, Elise.
That's so funny.
Uh, let's see.
For solopreneurs, freelancerswho are listening, what is the
biggest difference betweenmarketing yourself versus
marketing a product or service?
So I think this is gonna helpbring some clarity to some of
that self-promotion conversationwe had earlier as well.
SPEAKER_01 (31:22):
Yeah, I mean, part of the problem is when we're
marketing ourselves, we takeeverything really personally.
Yeah, and if there's one thingI've learned in life, actually,
it's that not taking anythingpersonally is better.
Yeah.
Right.
And the the thing that's trickyabout that is it means you don't
(31:43):
take the negative thingspersonally, but it also means
you don't take the positivethings personally.
The compliments are not pats onthe back, they are information
about what the market likes,what the market wants more of,
what you're doing that isworking for the market.
And if you can just takeyourself out of it, it makes it
(32:04):
so much easier.
SPEAKER_00 (32:07):
I love it.
That's so true.
I love it.
That's so true.
That's great.
All right.
Uh, let's see, you've written acouple books, seven, right?
And counting.
Um, including the CreativeProfessionals Guide to Money.
What is the mostcounterintuitive piece of
financial advice that you couldgive a creative?
SPEAKER_01 (32:25):
Uh it's kind of uh along the lines of something I
said before, which is don't askfor the budget.
Yeah.
Meaning um you need to get thatinformation, but when you ask
that specific question, oftenthey won't answer.
So the question to ask instead,after you've said, let's talk
about money, or are you ready totalk about money?
(32:47):
Or here's my favorite part ofthe conversation, the money
part.
Then you say, So are youthinking 500, 5,000, or 50,000?
Right?
You just skip over the questionthat is kind of open-ended and
just put numbers in front ofthem.
That's really the best way toget a number.
SPEAKER_00 (33:08):
I love it.
Super helpful.
Excited to hear if you all tryit.
All right, I've got one morequestion before we go into our
power round.
Live listeners, don't be shy.
If you have comments, questions,drop them in the chat for Elise.
We know this is a hot, hot topicfor y'all.
Um, all right.
Looking at the creative economytoday, how has the conversation
around pricing and clientrelationships have evolved since
(33:29):
you started your website andyour business and everything?
SPEAKER_01 (33:32):
Yeah, well, I started in 1988, so a lot has
changed.
Maybe a little.
Maybe a little.
There was no internet at thetime.
So um, that was one thing.
But I mean, I feel like there'sa lot more competition now than
ever before.
Plus, the competition is a clickaway, as they and so that makes
(33:56):
marketing more important.
In the past, people would say,especially creatives, oh, my
work should speak for itself.
If they if they want me, they'llcome to me.
SPEAKER_00 (34:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:06):
All of these things that were kind of true at the
time.
Sure.
There wasn't all that muchcompetition.
But that's one of the thingsthat changed.
And also, because of that, Ithink you have to show your
value more than the work.
Yeah.
Right?
The value in the servicesoffered, but also as a service
(34:28):
provider, which means how youwork.
Because sometimes, like withthis client I was referring to
before, who said, you know,don't base your decision on just
the money, because she wants toshow that she's very responsive,
she's a clear communicator, shemeets deadlines, she meets
budgets.
(34:49):
All of those things about howyou work are sometimes actually
even more important than thefinal deliverable.
Because the client, if they'renot an expert designer in this
case, they're not going to beable to tell if the work is good
or mediocre.
They can probably tell bad work,but some people can't.
SPEAKER_00 (35:06):
Right.
Yeah.
No, I think I think that's sosmart.
Um, showing that value up front,whether it's through case
studies, whether it's throughyour list of services and your
process and like that whiteglove.
I think we've talked about thattoo, is like hospitality as a
way to look at and run yourbusiness.
It's not just for hospitalitybusinesses.
There's a reason why people paya premium for certain kinds of
hotels or experiences.
(35:27):
It's because they know they'regoing to be seen, heard, and
taken care of, and they'rewilling to pay for that.
So if you can show that, youknow, it's going to put you
above the rest.
All right.
We did get a question from oneof our live listeners, which is
fantastic.
We love it.
How to market uh when you'repivoting a crew your career or
adding new services that youdon't have a whole lot of
experience on.
This is a great question.
SPEAKER_01 (35:48):
Yeah.
Um, first of all, you have toyou you don't necessarily have
to come out and say, I have noexperience, right?
You don't necessarily want to bethat transparent.
Right.
But you do have to show that youknow what they need.
And actually, um, I read oncesomewhere it said, if you can
(36:12):
describe the client's problem,or the better and more
articulately, you can describethe client's problem, the more
they will trust you.
Which means it's not aboutproviding the solution, it's
about understanding the problem.
SPEAKER_00 (36:24):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (36:25):
So I think that is really important.
And then, you know, if you haveto create some samples on your
own to show that you can dothis, even if you weren't
necessarily commissioned to doit for money by a client, I
think that's okay.
And I also think there arepeople who will give you a shot.
You just have to, you know, beas honest as you can and don't
(36:47):
be afraid of, oh my God, oh mygod, oh my god, I have no
samples.
SPEAKER_00 (36:50):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (36:51):
Again, that isn't necessarily always the most
important thing.
And one other thought, if youhave related or adjacent
experience that you can apply,then you talk that up basically.
SPEAKER_00 (37:04):
Yeah, I was getting ready to add that, Bill, 100% at
least.
Yeah, transferable skills are athing, people you have more
experience than you're givingyourself credit for.
Stop minimizing and diminishingyour overall experience.
I can't tell you how many womenwill come and be like, I have 20
years of marketing experience,but I've never done um, you
know, this kind of particularad.
(37:26):
And I'm like, but you've run adsbefore, right?
Like, hello, LinkedIn learning.
Like, there's so many ways tolike learn and train and scale
yourself up.
Like, that's the beauty of ourorganization too, right?
Is like, I can't tell youanybody that's like, I studied
advertising and design inschool.
None of my friends thatgraduated with me are doing the
jobs, you know, with thatdegree.
And very few women that come tous have that degree.
(37:48):
Um, they are kind of usingtransferable skills, career
pivots, and then self-taught.
Um, because the space that'schanging so much so fast, you
know, there's really no way youcan just go and get some degree.
I mean, you can.
And we definitely have memberswho have gone and gotten their
masters.
Um, I kind of am curious to likecircle back with them and be
like, are you a better marketernow that you spend another like
(38:10):
three, four years in school?
I'm curious.
I love school though.
Don't get me wrong.
We'll go to school forever here.
We love learning.
SPEAKER_01 (38:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I mean, at this pace,actually, by the time you finish
school, things will be sodifferent.
Again.
Yeah.
That I I don't think that'snecessarily the answer.
SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
Yeah.
No, I feel you.
I feel you.
All right, let's get to ourpower round questions then.
So these are some fun littlelightning round questions for
you.
I will keep an eye on the chatin case we have any more
questions from our listeningaudience.
What is your go-to response whenpotential clients say your
rate's too high?
SPEAKER_01 (38:42):
Tell me what you have in mind.
What can you spend?
And I'll tell you what I can dofor that.
SPEAKER_00 (38:49):
All right.
Fill in the blank.
My biggest money mistake createor the biggest money mistake
creative professionals make isassuming you know what your
prospect can pay.
SPEAKER_01 (39:01):
Ooh, that's without asking.
That's yeah, that.
Right?
For some reason, people say, Oh,I had a feeling they couldn't
afford this, so I charge that.
How do you know that?
SPEAKER_00 (39:13):
Right.
Exactly.
What is one marketing activitythat takes five minutes that
most people never do?
SPEAKER_01 (39:19):
Making comments on LinkedIn.
Yeah, that was a good advice.
Yeah.
And and really, I mean, thefirst reason people think
posting is the thing.
But and then they get umdisappointed or frustrated when
nobody comments or um likes it.
Those are vanity metrics.
You really I mean, there areonly certain types of posts that
(39:40):
get engagement.
You kind of have to ask aquestion if you want people to
respond.
So um commenting actually is oneof the best things you can do.
I think it's even better thanposting.
SPEAKER_00 (39:52):
Agreed.
Yeah, it's so funny.
One of our members bought me amug that says, Thanks for liking
my post, because I am that girl.
Like I will literally lay thereand bed it before night and I'm
like, oh, this is cool.
This is great.
Comment, like, comment like.
And the API favors that peopleit wants to see that you are
engaging.
They want to see that you'reDMing with people, they want to
see that you're leavingcomments.
This goes for LinkedIn,Facebook, and Instagram, which
(40:12):
are pretty prevalent in ourspaces and what we do to
promote.
So, yeah, and I mean it reallyjust again, it shows that you
are engaging.
It's not a one-sidedconversation, it's not about
you, it's about them, like yousaid earlier, right?
unknown (40:23):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (40:24):
Love it.
Okay, let's see.
What is the best piece of adviceyou wish you had known when you
started your business?
SPEAKER_01 (40:31):
Um when talking about pricing, to start high.
Right?
Often, again, people are afraidthey're they feel like they need
it, and so they don't starthigh, imagining without having
had the money conversation,number one, that uh the person
(40:51):
can't afford whatever it isyou're gonna charge.
And the reality is that you haveto start high so that you have
room to negotiate.
Because if you don't negotiate,then they you lose their
respect, also, right?
You don't you should not justtake whatever they offer.
That then you're kind of peggedas a doormat.
SPEAKER_00 (41:10):
Yeah, don't start at the floor, right?
I had Cindy Gallup on here oncewho uh speaking of LinkedIn.
If y'all aren't following her onLinkedIn, she's the best.
And she was like, make likestart with a number that almost
makes you laugh out loud whenyou say it.
That's how you know you're highenough.
Like you need to feel like it'sso ridiculous.
And the sad thing is for women,that number is probably about
what the average white guy namedChad would probably charge and
(41:31):
not think twice.
SPEAKER_01 (41:32):
And actually, I have a marketing corollary to that.
Yeah.
Because often people don't dotheir marketing or don't reach
out to someone because theydon't want to be perceived as
that, you know, used carsalesman, as they say.
And I always say to my people,there's no way you would even,
(41:53):
you don't even have it in you tobe that used car salesman.
Yeah.
You just have to do a littlemore than you're doing, but
you're not even close to thatline.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (42:02):
You're not in their, they're not in their DMs like
every other day.
That is so true.
Um, and I think again, like weboth said a little bit earlier,
if you are focused on them andhelping them solve a problem,
yeah.
It's not you being a pain.
It's just you being present andready for them if they need the
help that they need.
SPEAKER_01 (42:18):
And they thank you when the timing is right.
That's the thing that willsurprise you.
The thank you for beingpersistent.
SPEAKER_00 (42:24):
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
All right, well, oh, here we go.
One more question.
All right, what's the bestapproach uh to reach your
audience?
For instance, my targetprospects are SaaS companies.
How can I approach them forvideo animation services?
SPEAKER_01 (42:41):
Well, you have to either know or ask Artificial
Elise or Chat GPT what are theirpain points when it comes to
video animation services, andthen reach out to them about
that and ask do they outsourcethese services?
Not complicated.
SPEAKER_00 (43:00):
Keep it simple.
I love it.
That's a great question and agreat answer, Elise.
I love it so much.
All right, Elise, thank youagain.
Sharing all your wisdom and yourexperience with the community
today.
Your insights on helping toattract clients and having
confidence in moneyconversations is uh what a lot
of us need to be hearing rightnow, especially like you said,
as we're coming to the end ofthe year, starting a new year.
(43:21):
Um, for anyone who wants to diveinto Elise's work more deeply,
you can find her at marketingdash mentor.com.
You can check her out, check outher mentor marketing mentor
podcast and grab or grab quicktips from marketing dash
mentorships.com.
And don't forget to connect withher, of course, on LinkedIn as
well.
Like, comment, right, friends.
Yes.
And remember the clients are outthere, but they really need you
(43:44):
all, right?
Um, as Elise reminded us, theydon't just land in your lap.
You have to take some action,even if it's little things every
day.
So thank you again, Elise, forjoining us.
And thank you, everyone, forlistening.
We appreciate you all.
SPEAKER_01 (43:55):
You're welcome.
My pleasure.
Thanks for the invitation.
SPEAKER_00 (43:58):
Of course, my pleasure, Elise.
All right, everyone.
That's all we've got for today.
Um, for those who are listeninglive, enjoy your Halloween.
Have fun, stay safe out there,and we will see you next time.
Until then, keep asking, keepgiving, and keep growing.
SPEAKER_02 (44:19):
Produced by Heartcast Media.
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