Sales or Marketing? Which Comes First

Are you striving to determine whether sales or marketing should take precedence in your business strategy? In today’s episode, Amy Vaughn engages with Katie Nelson, Founder and CEO of Sales UpRising. With thirty years of sales experience and over $150 million in products and services sold, Katie is on a mission to help businesses overcome the statistic that 90% fail to meet their sales goals. Her expertise has transformed hundreds of entrepreneurial ventures from mere ideas into thriving, profitable enterprises.

Katie discusses her approach to prioritizing sales and cash flow as the foundation for business success, while effectively aligning marketing strategies to support growth. Through workshops, mastermind courses, and personalized training, she empowers business owners with strategies that have built multi-million-dollar firms.

Join Amy and Katie as they explore practical strategies for balancing sales efforts with building a strong brand. Katie’s insights offer actionable advice to enhance your business strategies and drive sustainable growth, providing a fresh perspective on the dynamic between sales and marketing.

Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
02:00 - "Sales vs. Marketing Debate with Katie"
08:21 - "Sales Uprising: Empowering Entrepreneurs"
10:41 - Building Business Without Algorithms
19:39 - "Uncover Insights Through Experience"
21:12 - "Enhance Revenue Through Team Collaboration"
28:02 - "Entrepreneurship: Runway and Expenses"
34:03 - "Focus on Cash, Not Content"
41:31 - "Talking to Products via AI"
43:07 - Prioritize Sales Over Creativity
48:57 - Passion for Community Impact
55:41 - "Offer and Market Focus"
01:00:59 - "Business Insights with Katie"
01:02:06 - Outro

Key Takeaways:
Embracing Sales as a Creative Venture
Sales First, Then Marketing
Every Conversation is a Sales Opportunity
Understanding Your Market
Cash Flow is the Lifeline
Transformative Power of Focused Selling
Collaboration Over Competition
Ask the Tough Questions

Quotes:
"Sales are conversations that build relationships and foster understanding."- Amy Vaughn

"Every conversation connects and transforms. Sales are the lifeblood of your business."- Katie Nelson

Connect with Katie Nelson
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thesalescatalyst/
Website: https://www.salesuprising.com/

Connect with the host Amy Vaughan:
LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/amypvaughan
Podcast: https://www.togetherindigital.com/podcast/

Learn more about Together Digital and consider joining the movement by visiting https://togetherindigital.com

Support the show

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly Power
Lounge.
This is your place to hearauthentic conversations from
those who have power to share.
My name is Amy Vaughn and I amthe owner and chief empowerment
officer of Together Digital, adiverse and collaborative
community of women who choose toshare their knowledge, power
and connections.
You can join the movement attogetherindigitalcom and today I

(00:32):
am absolutely delighted towelcome Katie Nelson, a
powerhouse sales leader who hastransformed the way businesses
approach revenue generation.
As the founder and CEO of SalesUprising, katie has spent over
three decades mastering the artand science of sales, personally
closing more than $150 millionin products and services through

(00:53):
her remarkable career.
Way to go, katie.
She is on a mission to changethe troubling statistic that 90%
of businesses fail to reachtheir sales goals.
As a three-time business ownerherself, she brings a unique
perspective to our ongoingdebate.
In a chicken or egg scenario ofbusiness growth, which comes
first sales or marketing?

(01:14):
With her signature approachthat brings fun back into sales,
katie helps entrepreneurstransform their ideas into
thriving, profit-generatingbusinesses.
Her expertise in creatingworkshops, mastermind courses
and business retreats hasequipped hundreds of business
owners with the tools that theyneed to succeed in an
increasingly competitive world.

(01:35):
Today we're going to explorewhy Katie believes cash flow is
your business's oxygen and howevery business action can
ultimately become a salesconversation.
So, whether you're leading amarketing team, running your own
business or looking tostrengthen your strategy,
katie's insights will help yourethink the relationship between
marketing efforts and salesresults.

(01:57):
So everyone, please give around of applause, yay, and
welcome Katie to the PowerLounge.
We're happy to have you here.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Thank you, Amy.
I couldn't be happier to behere.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Fantastic.
Yes, we are a common connectionfrom our fantastic Molly
Rowland, who's a member and ourpodcast team leader and producer
and sponsor.
We love, love, love, molly.
So again, whenever it's likegood people connecting good
people, it's just going to be agood thing.
And you know sales andmarketing.
You know our organization.
We lead more, we lead God.

(02:32):
It's so Friday already leanmore towards marketing and we
shy away from the sales.
It's scary making the ask anddoing the thing.
But before we dive into thatmain topic that I know a lot of
our members are ready to hearabout, could you share a little
bit about your career journeywith our listeners?
What led you to become a salesexpert and eventually finding

(02:53):
Sales Uprising after threedecades in the field, which I
don't think that's right.
That can't be possible.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Looking at you.
Thanks, I'll take it, althoughI will tell you a secret
underneath all of this purplehair is a full head of gray.
So how I got into sales, Ithink started at the dinner
table when I was eight.
I know that sounds crazy, butboth of my parents own their own

(03:18):
business in the house that Igrew up in and it was forever a
struggle or a worry thatbusiness was going to go
somewhere else or payroll wasn'tgoing to be able to be made or
whatever.
You know all hashtag, all thestruggles of business ownership,
and I think somewhere in myhead you know I was an energetic

(03:41):
eight year old kid People likedme I would sell campfire candy
door to door.
So I just kind of thought youknow what these people need?
They just need someone wholoves their stuff and sells it
for them.
I mean, it was super simple.
I think is kind of the thoughtthat got stuck in my head and I
took that and ran with it assoon as I was of legal age to go
work.
I worked in a call centerselling stuff part-time to earn

(04:03):
movie money.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, I did that for a hot minute, worst six weeks of
my life, but good, goodeducation.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
I loved it.
It was amazing.
What did you sell?
I sold book clubs.
I sold coffee, gevalia Coffee,which is still around.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
I sold Gevalia.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Coffee subscriptions.
I sold the very first Retinol,a face cream, over the phone,
nice.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
That's not so bad.
I sold windows.
Windows, that's not fun.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
So I was 15 and a half and they tried to get me to
sell credit card insuranceprograms which, let's be clear,
when you work in a call center,comes with this huge script If
yes, then this, If no, then thisright.
And you just kind of memorizeit and then you put your own
sauce on it if you will.
And when they handed me thescript and I read through it,
I'm like, look, I don't qualifyfor these programs.

(04:56):
I don't know what insurance is.
I can read all of this andunderstand the language, but
nobody is going to buy this froma sounding me sounding person.
So I think that's how I endedup selling, you know, golden
books, book clubs to stay athome, moms.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Oh, that, that might not be.
I might've been a little bitbetter at that than windows.
It was just like the scriptingand the over, like for you to
station whatever the word therewould be, like trying to do this
.
That was, that was.
That was the hard part for me.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Oh I, I found so much , I find that so interesting.
I found that part to be thebest part, because somebody had
already collated all of thisamazing data to say if this is
someone's objection, this is theinformation that they're
looking for.
So I never really had to thinkabout it.
So for me, the script wasliterally just a script, just

(05:49):
like it was in drama, right?
So you've got your lines, butevery single one of us gets to
bring us to any part that we'replaying, you know, and so I
guess I kind of I enjoyed thatpart.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
This is your zone of genius for sure, maybe not so
much mine.
And then I'm kind of curioustoo, like founding and creating,
like your own business withSales Uprising.
What was that journey like andabout?

Speaker 2 (06:15):
That journey was like climbing up a mountain and then
falling down a mountain andthen deciding to climb up a
mountain again.
So I became an entrepreneur thefirst time, on accident, and
what I mean by that is I didn'tgive too much thought to it.
I was in my early 30s and amentor of mine in professional
services and staffing said hey,I want to start my own business
and do you want to join me?

(06:37):
And of course he said it in away that made it impossible to
say no and I was like, of course, but I didn't think of myself
as a business owner because Iwas just doing the same job that
I had always done, because whenyou're starting a business, the
money in the door is the mostimportant and needed thing.
So I didn't really think ofmyself as a business owner.
That business ended up sadlynever getting off the runway,

(07:01):
because now we had made sixfigures in 12 months.
It was beautiful.
We just didn't have enoughrunway for what the market could
bear at that time, withsequestration and the continuing
resolution.
Some people may find that to beapplicable today, unfortunately
, because that was years ago.
And then that business kind ofmorphed into the next business

(07:24):
with a different owner and we.
I did generate a $6 million runrate in under two and a half
years and grew that businessbefore sales uprising became a
thing for me.
Uh, before I realized like mytrue passion is teaching.
I spent so much of my timeteaching these program managers
how to sell to their governmentfront facing people, people who
I had never seen, um, for thebetterment of the business that
I just much of my time teachingthese program managers how to
sell to their government frontfacing people people who I had

(07:46):
never seen, for the bettermentof the business, that I just
realized I maybe had a talentfor it and that that's what I
really wanted to do.
I wanted to help the moms anddads around the dinner table
with their kids who werestressed out about their
business, and teach them how tosell and grow their business
that way.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
I love it.
Bringing it back to theeight-year-old you, I feel like
sometimes that's the way you'vemade it.
We measure success in so manyweird ways in our world and
society, and for me it was likethat moment when I was like, oh
my gosh, I just made myeight-year-old self so happy.
I'm doing the kind of work thatme, as a child, before the rest
of the world got to me like,would have loved to know that

(08:25):
that's where we ended up andthat's what we were doing.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
So, yeah, I love that Love it, love it.
I, I sales uprising man.
I want everybody to have one.
So you know I get a lot of uminteresting questions about the
name of sales uprising.
So you can close your eyesbusiness owner in Main Street or
behind their computers, likethrowing up there.
And this is for you too, amy.
I heard you to say phooey on it.

(08:50):
I'm just going to go sellBecause, at the end of the day,
if that is the one thing thatyou did, if you could battle and
have an uprising against all ofyour mind demons about sales,
your business and therefore yourlife and your customers' lives
would be better.
So that's where that comes from.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
I love it, yes, cause you're right.
I mean, I think all usentrepreneurs could have a
better relationship with sales,and women in particular.
I think it is something wherewe struggle, right Cause we're
not socially conditioned topromote ourselves or it's not
seen as something that'sattractive in women if they do
that in professional societiesin some circles.
So, yeah, I can totallyunderstand why some people hold
back on it, but you're right, itis the lifeblood of everything.

(09:28):
Like you say, it's the oxygento your business, which we'll
get to more soon, but yeah,without it there's no money
coming in.
So let's kind of get to thattopic a little bit, about how
we're talking about, whetherit's cash or clicks, sales or
marketing.
First, where do you?
I mean, we can't even know.
But where are you standing onthis debate and what experiences
have shaped your perspective onthis?

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Oh, you'll have to remind me of the second part,
the heftier part, of thequestion.
With that being said, what Iwould say is there is no one
size fits all when it comes tobusiness.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
So, if you're a product-based business, clicks
might be the thing.
So a bigger marketing presenceis going to be something that
you're going to want to havecreated.
If you are a service-basedbusiness, I would tell you sales
is going to be the thing.
Service-based businesses aremuch more dependent upon

(10:24):
relationship.
So, if you think about you know, there was a lovely woman in
the Together Digital communitythat commented and she creates
genealogy like, right, wendyLegacy boxes, right?
So in an effort for someone toknow my family, like I want to
know who they are.
So she has to spend much moretime marketing ultimately, but

(10:44):
the sell has to do with herrelationship with the human Bots
.
Don't buy.
If they did, I'm surealgorithms would be in a.
They'd be even better.
We would love them instead ofhate them, but that's just not.
I haven't outsourced the buyingof my life to a bot at the
moment.
So sales is really the thingand I would tell you you can

(11:05):
sell without a website.
You know, when you're firststarting your business, after
you get your tax ID number andyou set up your bank accounts
and maybe you have some thoughtson your logo or your tagline or
all of these things you don'treally need to do a whole lot
with it.
You need to figure out what youwant to deliver to your
customer, see if it's sellable,and then you can grow everything
from there.
You can have the most beautifulidea of who you are as a

(11:32):
business, what your business iscalled, your taglines, your
fonts, your branding like thesexiest branding and you know
all the people that create that,right, yeah, and if it's an
idea that no one will buy, itdoesn't mean anything.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Oh, I think you just made their heads all of our
members and listeners' headsexplode.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
You can sell it on a website.
What Katie sell it on a website.
Girl.
Look you know what?
Oh my gosh, I'm going to.
I'll be right back.
I have to go grab something,okay.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Oh my goodness, I know seriously listeners.
Your heads are like wait whatSpinning.
But Katie, she's going to makeit make sense.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
So I had to go get my Google profile re-verified.
This happened to anybody lately, right?
So I put up all of the thingsfor all of my business and I
found this hilarious old pieceof marketing you guys see it,
Yep.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
So for those that are listening to the podcast, it's
just a postcard that says salesuprising.
Maximizing relationships, driveresults.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yep Drive revenue Revenue.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
Sorry.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
It was cut off and this literally was a stat.
This was a literally staticlanding page with like my name
and like call me and my phonenumber for three years Amazing.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
I didn't know anything, I won't attempt to
learn.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
I'm not one of those and call me and my phone number.
For three years in the business, I didn't know anything.
I won't attempt to learn.
I'm not one of thoseentrepreneurs who's like well, I
need to go learn how to do awebsite.
No, because that makes me awebsite designer.
And I know nothing about thatand it's going to take me so
long, oh, absolutely soexpensive if I do it that way.
But I figured I would have afriend help me get this up and

(13:06):
it would just stay there and Iwould go sell my fanny off until
I could afford someone to fixthat.
Yeah, like to do somethingbetter, gotta start somewhere.
Yeah, and the beautiful partabout that is that through those
sales, I understood my clientbetter.
So for everybody on here who isin marketing and branding, what
my sales function brought mewas understanding my niche

(13:29):
better, being able to talk in away that they could hear me
right, versus spending all ofthis upfront cash on what I
thought would be the thing, tofind out it's not the thing and
then feel like I have to redo itsix months later, another six
months later and then anotheryear later.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
So sales first, Sales first.
Yeah, MVP it right, that makesso much sense.
And so I was the second half ofthe question and you kind of
got into a little bit.
But I don't know if you want toadd more color to it, but how
your experience have sort ofshaped this perspective for you.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
I don't, I don't know any other way.
Yeah, right, like.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
I'm not the marketing person Right.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
As a 30 year boots on the ground salesperson, I found
marketing annoying becausemarketing is the prettiest of
the thing.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Like marketing is the lipstick?
It's not.
It's not the grimy gritty likeuh, to throw it back to my
parents.
You know they were in fencingand machinery, so it's not the
dirt under your nails, it's notthe fast orange that you're like
using to scrub your, and that'swhat the sales function is,
outside of delivery, right so onthe front end of a business.

(14:48):
And so I always was like whyare you asking me about?
Why are you asking me aboutthis?
Go create whatever one slickyou need to.
Please note I've never used aone pager to sell anything, ever
.
Right?
So for me it was all likeacting.
If I have pieces of paper thathave my name and my company and

(15:12):
my capability statement on it,that just makes me look bigger
than I am, which maybe somepeople are going to buy me for
that.
But if I took a straw poll ofmy clients over 30 years, I
think maybe 2% of them would sayyeah, katie, I purchased from
you because you guys were thebiggest name in the biz, or you

(15:32):
were big enough or you had theright marketing anything.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yeah, no, it makes a lot of sense too when you think
about it.
I just wrote down, as you werespeaking there branding and
marketing sell, but they aren'tsales.
They aren't guaranteed sales,and it is.
It is the pretty thing, it isthe shiny object that we all
love and appreciate and want tospend time on.
But you're right, at the end ofthe day, it is the relationship
, it's the sales that have toactually make, which is what

(15:58):
makes the money move.
So then, as you kind of growand build, then yeah, then
marketing and branding can kindof come into play as you kind of
grow and build then yeah, thenmarketing and branding can kind
of come into play.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
But it is a bit of a mind warp.
I was going to say so.
You know that I'm sorry forjumping in, but here's the thing
.
You know.
For all all of you out therewho have ever heard, I'd really
like to know what ROI I'm goingto get out of my branding or
marketing.
Sorry for the noise, but reallylike, what a horrible question.
Nobody loves that, and there'sactually an answer to that.
If the buyer has done their duediligence, you will get more

(16:31):
ROI.
If you can tell me cleanly andclearly who your target market
is, yeah Right, so fantastic.
I love that you're asking thisquestion.
What kind of ROI are youcurrently getting?
What you know?
What is your current salesfunnel look like?
Why do you think that yourcurrent marketing is failing you
?
And all of them could say it'sbecause of whoever I'm using,

(16:53):
and you and I both know that isnever true.
It's really not.
It has to do with the businessowner not being able to clearly
articulate who they serve, thebenefits of why someone would
work with them or even theirpackages.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, no, yes, exactly, I feel that.
Feel that All right Livelistening audience.
I know Danelle already jumpedin to say, hey, your energy is
amazing.
She builds websites, by the way, if you need a website, katie.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Well, danelle, go look, you can tell me.
I'm sure the answer is yes.
It will always be yes.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
She's a member out in Denver.
But yes, live listeningaudience, please feel free to
jump in and ask questions if youhave them.
We'd love to hear from you all.
We're so glad that you're herelistening with us live today.
All right, so you've sold over$150 million in products and
services, so, yeah, you clearlyknow what you're doing and what
you're talking about.
We're not going to doubt that.
What is the biggestmisconception you see among
businesses about therelationship between marketing

(17:49):
and sales?
I think we've kind of tiptoedinto this a little bit, but
let's kind of keep going on thatsome more.
It's your fault.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
No, it's your fault.
No, it's your fault.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Kids, siblings.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Right, there's those amazing memes or Gifs or gifs or
whatever they are online oflike people pointing their
finger at marketing and peoplepointing their finger back at
sales, and I think for any of uswho've ever worked in a
corporate environment, you canfall down that rabbit hole so
easily and it's the saddestthing on earth because, like,

(18:21):
who are you trying to fool?
Keep the thing the thing.
Yeah, if marketing can say wehave a thousand more followers
than we did last month,marketing is doing its job.
Right, if sales can say we hitthe goal or we're over the goal,

(18:41):
they're doing their job.
So, instead of making it thisarm wrestling match, the most
beautiful thing is when we cancome together and work together.
Marketing and sales areliterally the same thing to some
extent, right.
They're just like think of aquarter.
One's a heads and one's a tails.
They focus in two differentdirections of the same thing.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, no, I absolutely agree.
And I also feel like when youcan kind of cease that
infighting and encouragecollaboration between sales and
marketing, then, yeah, guesswhat, it's not just a win-win
for, like you, your team, it's awin for the whole company.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Preach it, sister, like yes, all day, every day.
One of the things I've neverbeen able to do, or never had
the opportunity to do, when Iran a bigger team, was be like
hey, marketing, come hang outwith me for a day.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Like in just a true sales role, not as the vice
president or anything like that,just me as a business
development executive orsalesperson or account executive
or client delivery executiveLots of words for sales chick
but just come and hang out withme for a day so that you can see
what it looks like to actuallydive into.
You're asking me questions thatI may not be able to answer,

(19:56):
but if you could hear theconversation, you would know
your answers.
You'd be able to fill out theMad Lib, and what I mean by that
is I could have 10 juicy, sexy,revenue generating
conversations in a day.
But if a marketing person eversaid what's the one reason why
people buy from you, I wouldnever be able to answer that

(20:18):
question Interesting Other thanwe're awesome at what we do, and
I communicated that to them andso they said, yes, but a
marketing person can't put thatinto language.
That is going to give you moremarket share.
So having your marketing peoplego out with your salespeople,
having your salespeople hang outwith your marketing people and

(20:39):
see the work that they have toput in to create sexy, juicy
content that is clickbaitable intoday's world, I think it would
go a long way towards everybodycoming together and being like
oh my gosh, I love you.
I could never do that.
I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah, no, exactly, I think it's like a kind of match
made in heaven when you can findamicable ways to work, and I do
think that oftentimes it's.
You know, I guess I went likethe marketing, like you said, is
that kind of exterior wrapper,it's the thing that might draw
somebody in, but then the salesis what needs to like, close the
deal, close the lead, and therelationship needs to be there,
and it's like if one is notcommunicating with the other,

(21:19):
it's that's where the letdownscan happen.
And so not only that, but likeyou are losing potential revenue
by not having these two groupsand departments working together
, conversing, collaboratingclosely, right, because then all
of a sudden you over-promisedand under-delivered, you know.
And that can go the other wayaround too, cause, like I've
worked at places and agencieswhere it's like we had a sales
team and they were going out toclose deals and projects and

(21:40):
they would lean really hard inwith some clients and get a
little creative on stuff, andthen they would come to us and
be like now we have to deliveron all this.
And so then I just startedsaying, okay, listen, we're
going to like, do like a weeklymeeting together.
I would love to be on your like.
Maybe second call with apotential leader client if
you're comfortable with it, andthey were more than happy
because they're like, bring it,if I can bring somebody that's

(22:01):
in the business doing the workto this potential client,
they're going to be like oh myGod, you're already making me a
priority, so it's really just awin-win.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Absolutely, and what it does is also informs how you
put together.
It gives the entirety of thecompany the opportunity to hear
what clients really want throughthe noise of.
I also want to be special, soone of the things that I find
specifically in the marketingspace is that y'all have an

(22:29):
entire like does everybody know?
Like Brazilian steakhouses andhow they have salad bars that
have 99 different things,because you can have an
all-you-can-eat salad bar at thesteak joint.
So y'all's offerings are kindof like that I want, and I can
go up over and over and overagain and get different

(22:50):
combinations of things.
One of the biggest challengesthat I challenge everyone with
is thinking about the mostcommon denominators and making
it as simple as possible foryour salespeople to sell or for
yourselves to sell right,Because the more you can come to
commonality, the more efficientyour sales life cycle is.

(23:11):
Everything else outside of itcan be an upsell or a
continuation of the relationship.
That's a great point, and whenwe're looking at our clients,
how many of us would say thatour clients know what they need?

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah, nobody's raising their hand.
I can't see any of them, but Iknow they're not raising their
hands.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
They're all going, katie.
You know that's not true.
You know we have to educatethem about the appropriate way
to do everything.
If I use me as an example, I'venow been sales.
Uprising will be nine this yearand I still couldn't tell you
what I know from a marketingperspective, like it's horrible,
it is, it's hard, you don't.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
And then my favorite client was the one and I let her
go right after that.
This was actually like not evenstraight.
I was pretty much straight outof college.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
I'll know what I want when I see it, I was like no
ma'am, no ma'am, no ma'am.
We cannot afford to do that,right.
Thank you very much for lettingme know.
You know what.
I've got another call.
Yeah, goodbye, oh, I'm late fora meeting.
Definitely reach back out to me, right, yeah, cool, never, yeah

(24:23):
.
And even as a business owner,even I feel bad when people are
like so Katie, what do you?
Even the most simple things, Idon't.
I don't find myself online verymuch, so when people ask like
so what are some websites thatyou would love your website to
be the vibe of, I'm like you'rejoking, right?

Speaker 1 (24:35):
I don't have any idea , what that means.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
I don't know why don't you show me the three
sexiest templates of a websiteand I can tell you what the most
value is?
I mean for me to have to golook at the entirety of the
internet to figure out what myvibe is in terms of website.
When I know nothing is a bigask.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
And that's why I think to this whole kind of
mindset shift of sales beforemarketing is that then you can
start to see like why arecustomers coming, why are they
buying?
And then that's how you, inturn, just reverse engineer that
and that's how you market it,versus trying to overcomplicate
it because it can be challengingand expensive.
But like yeah, it's so funny,you and Danelle, if you guys

(25:20):
haven't connected already, youneed to.
She was like when you said howmany of your clients know what
they want?
And like I said nobody'sraising their to.
She was like when you said howmany of your clients know what
they want?

Speaker 2 (25:31):
And like I said nobody's raising their hand,
she's like, oh my God, zero.
And then parentheses sobs intoher coffee.
It's okay, girl, I feel you andI'll be in Denver in November
hey there we go.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
I love it, I love it.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
So honestly right, it really is true.
So how many of you see, thereyou go.
I love it when marketing islike, yeah, katie, so it's a
month to month, like people cancome on board.
Now I know of no one inmarketing who's like, yep, you
see ROI in the first 30 days?
Yeah, because marketing'sfunction, the function of

(25:59):
marketing, doesn't even workthat way.
The function of sales doesn'twork that way, depending on the
price of your offering and theheft of the service that you
offer.
Right, if you're selling anonline course, pish tosh, right,
like great For an online courseat X amount of dollars, you
just need to make sure thatyou're the loudest person on the
mountain and getting the mostlooks.

(26:20):
And, whatever the case is,that's not the heart of any of
our business, and to create thatone course that speaks to those
people takes time.
If you don't really know whatyour people need, why are we
putting a digital course on?
We would call it throwingspaghetti at the wall to see
what sticks right Absolutely,which is time consuming and

(26:40):
expensive.
I'm sorry, can you say thatlouder please?
Time consuming and expensive.
I'm sorry, can you?

Speaker 1 (26:44):
say that louder please.
Time consuming and expensiveRight.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
So my company is based on basically squeezing all
the juice out of every pennyyou have to invest in your
business, and when you're brandnew, you've already spent money
to get your business license,maybe get a domain name, print
business cards or even get adigital card kind of app.
You know like these things, andso I need you to make a deal as

(27:10):
fast as possible, because itisn't until that sale happens
that the wheels really start toclick in like watch gears right,
so they go together with things, versus crafting entire
marketing plans out of thin airor just because you think so.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, yeah, no, exactly, this is so great, oh,
my goodness.
All right, you have to say thatcashflow is the oxygen of your
business.
Could you expand a little onthat metaphor and share some
examples of how prioritizingsales can transform a client's
business?

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Absolutely.
I did a YouTube series.
We all did weird things duringthe pandemic, right?
So I went into a studio acouple of times and put together
these tidbits and the serieswas called Feed the Fire, and
fire in our business is cashflow, and oxygen is what feeds

(28:05):
fire, and cash flow is whatkeeps our business alive.
So this is the theory.
You know, this is the side ofthat's where all of that came
from.
So, if you can, if everybodycan like, close their eyes and
think about their companies as aplane like their businesses, as
a plane like their biggestvisions, for what they want

(28:27):
through their ownentrepreneurial capability.
It ends up becoming a prettybig plane, like an Airbus 320 or
something like that.
And what planes need in aneffort to take off is runway,
and the bigger the plane, thebigger the runway.
Cash in your business elongatesyour runway.

(28:48):
Anything you do that either isan expense, which, let's be
clear, marketing is an expense,nothing wrong with it.
But every expense hacks at yourrunway, in terms of both cash
and time and like bandwidth,right, right.
It doesn't matter if you're theCEO of a 5,000 person company

(29:11):
or if you are you as a CEOgetting her done.
That's just the universal truth.
So cash is what we need.
More Cash is queen.
It needs to be the focus,because the majority of small
business owners don't start.
They're bootstrap girl, let'sbe honest who has bootstrap?

(29:33):
Woo, woo, love me some boots,especially if they have straps.
So you know, I've been abusiness owner three times.
There was only one of thosetimes when I really thought
about what that would mean.
It took me being a businessowner two times over to really
understand what that would meanto my quote, unquote back office
and by that I mean my house interms of, like, what does it

(29:56):
look like when you don't get aregular check to pay rent or
mortgage or your bills orwhatever?
You never really know, yeah, andwe have a tendency when we're
new in business where everydollar we spend goes back into
the business and we tellourselves really fascinating and
false paradigms like you haveto spend money to make money and

(30:18):
it's compounding.
So everything about all of thatpoints to we need to make more
money faster instead of takingour time to get it right.
How many businesses do you knowthat literally never went
anywhere because they took toolong trying to figure it out,

(30:39):
and what that really means likebehind closed doors is that they
waited until they were toobroke and too burnt out to ever
even try and really sell.
It's heartbreaking.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine.
Yeah, it does seem reallycommon and it's one of those
things.
It's a piece of advice I gotearly on when I came into
entrepreneurship and that waslike the majority of your
activities in time should berevenue generating activities.
Boom, it is the thing that,like it's just, I don't know why
.
Usually it's because we aregood at the other things that we

(31:14):
might do and bring to the table, and when you're an
entrepreneur, you're like I'm myown boss, I'm going to do what
I want.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
All right, you know, and there's always that like Ooh
, katie, I'm so excited I got tofire my first client.
Like this is like this bar oflike.
Now I know I'm really inbusiness because I got to not
work with someone who I wouldnormally have had to have worked
with.
Yes, right, um, I, it's a, it'sa revenue generating activities.

(31:45):
So I guess this is the otherthing.
So, context you and I talkedabout how there's the context of
a thing there is a marketingpipeline and there is a sales
pipeline.
So for anybody on the pot who'slistening to the podcast,
that's like yeah, katie, so Idon't understand where the these
two rivers meet.
Like, how does this look?

(32:05):
What does this look like?
If you picture a traditionalfunnel and all of the activities
that marketing do, that funnelsits directly on top of a sales
funnel.
Where they meet is at prospects, right, and so there is this
handoff.

(32:25):
There has to be this handshake,yes, and it really is best when
reverse engineered.
So if you start all the way atthe bottom of a sales funnel
with the little dollar thatdripped out, right, which is a
client, and then you deliver tothat client and then you reverse
engineer, what did it look likewhen I presented?

(32:47):
What did it look like when Iasked them for their business?
And you go up a level and saywhat did it look like when I
presented them with my option?
Yeah, what did it look likewhen I presented?
What did it look like when Iasked them for their business.
And you go up a level and say,what did it look like when I
presented them with my option?
What did it look like when Iqualified them even further,
where did I get them aspotential?
And then all of the steps of amarketing funnel upwards.

(33:07):
That is how we can.
If we focus on the dollar first, that's how we create
businesses that are cashflowheavy.
As long as that's the focusRight, Because that dollar
informs every other piece, yeah,that's how you follow the money
, folks.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
I mean I'm sitting here doodling, I'm like drawing
your little funnels.
I'm like I'm so excited you andI were going to sit down and
we're just going to play aroundwith more of this stuff.
But yeah, I think it's.
It is.
It's just a different mindsetand way to think about things,
Cause we just get all of thisstuff pounded into our head over
and over and over again and,like I said, most of our
listeners are on the side ofmarketing, and so what are some

(33:46):
other ways that they couldbetter align their strategies to
sales objectives?
I mean, that example you justgave was great, but do you have
any other thoughts?

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Well, one.
I'm going to challenge all ofyou to like a 30-day money focus
.
I like that.
It's not really what I can tellyou, because each one of you
are you.
You come with your own specialsauce.
I haven't met all of you yet.
Give it a minute I will.
But you know, we'll solve that Ihaven't met all of you yet.
Give it a minute I will, but youknow we'll solve that.
The truth of the matter is if,if you did nothing else, if you

(34:16):
promised yourself, like you allknow how to schedule your push
out for posting and content,ladies, gentlemen, you know that
you have all the content youneed for like the next five
years.
So quit saying you need to upyour content game.
What a bunch of hooey.
So if you could set yourmarketing and forget it for 30

(34:38):
days, if you could say Katie,right now, I promise I will
close my eyes to my business'smarketing and I will only focus
on generating cash for the next30 days, I guarantee you you
will be closer to your goals,your revenue goals, your
business dreams, than you areright now or will ever be.
If you don't do that, as amatter of fact, oh look, amy,

(35:02):
I'm going to give you homeworkafter 30 days.
So on April 7th, 30 days fromnow, whenever you're listening
to this, I want you to get intouch with Amy.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
And I want you to report if you made.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Put it in the right.
If you're in the community, putit in the Slack channel.
How much money have you made?
I love it.
Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Why wouldn't we Like?
Because then it begins to like,beg that question of like,
really analyzing for yourbusiness, what are your most
revenue generating activities?
Right, and you have to maybe doa little bit of thinking and
digging again, based on yourproduct, based on your service,
whatever that might be, becausesometimes I don't think a lot of

(35:46):
folks even know what that is.
And again, as a business owner,we are sort of preconditioned
or just have preferences on thetypes of activities that we
prefer.
because it's comfortable, right,but it might not be the thing
that's generating the money,that we need to keep the money,
the mission, whatever it may begoing.

(36:06):
And so trying to figure thatout I think sometimes for folks
is scary.
When you say pause yourmarketing, I'm like oh god, like
things happen in my body.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
And I don't mean pause your marketing, really,
you guys just set it for 30 days, yeah well, yeah, just go set
like, set it and forget it.
Yeah, you all are the brilliantminds behind marketing.
You know how to do that, whatit's going to look like.
I would put forward that youprobably have your plan for at
least for three months, right?
So why is it something that wepay so much attention to that

(36:38):
takes up so much of our very,very expensive time to play
around with?
Like, trust yourself in yourown expertise and go focus on a
different hat in your business.
Go be the CEO and the numberone salesperson and see what
that actually where that cantake you.
Yeah, it can't hurt.

(37:00):
Yeah, I mean, I promise itcan't.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Right, yeah, 30 days.
I love it, all right.
Well, I'll have to check backin Jeez Homework for my own, so
that's a first, but I'll take it.
I don't take it.
I love it.
I like a good challenge, it'sall good.
We need that.
That's why we need each otherand communicate our
conversations like this andcommunity, because otherwise I

(37:25):
think, especially as anentrepreneur, it is really easy
to kind of get stuck in a bit ofa rut and routine because
you're like this is what this is, this routine, because you're
like this is working well enough.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
But is it enough?
Is it enough?
The answer is probably, butwe'll never feel like it.
And the craziest thing aboutentrepreneurship, the thing
nobody ever told me and again, Ihad owned two businesses.
Of course I had co-founders orco-owners, but it's a lonely

(37:57):
joint.
We spend a lot of time on ourown hamster wheel trying to
answer questions that maybenobody ever asked and we don't
even really think like why isthis the question?
Why did I think this was thething?
And then we get stuck down thatrabbit hole.
I mean, there are so many scary, scary rabbit holes and it's
such a big, long field with somany hidden booby traps that we
can, you know, not look up fortwo weeks to see what's going on

(38:19):
.
Maybe we got stuck in delivery,right?
So the thing we really love,the reason why we do this, you
know, we just we just paidattention to our clients for two
weeks and then we look up andwe're like, oh, this well's dry,

(38:40):
yeah, no exactly.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
What am I doing Right ?
No, I definitely.
I know a lot of our listenersprobably feel that as well.
I was kind of curious too ifthere was ever an instance in
kind of building and scalingthrough businesses, if there was
ever really a marketinginitiative that hindered sales,
and if so, what did you learnfrom it?

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Oh, a marketing.
So a marketing effort thathindered sales.
I'd have to go back and look tosee if, ultimately, the
marketing has paid off.
But for me what that looks likeis getting too lost in the
marketing to have a sales effort.
That's really what it alwayscomes.

(39:20):
I literally have to outsourceall of that, Otherwise I will be
the proverbial person staringonline to see if I got likes and
clicks and scrolling and seeingif people subscribed or
unsubscribed I mean it gets towhich.
Let's be clear, none of that isthe point.
What I care about is hey, is mycalendar filled with juicy
sales calls?

(39:40):
But when you are so close as anentrepreneur, so close to the
marketing, you're very much likeSally Field.
You just want everybody to likeyou, right.
So I have absolutely gottencaught up in that and, like from
some bad trip or dream, likewoken up, going wait what?

(40:03):
I don't know that I care aboutany of that.
I only care about the peoplewho heard it and get it and want
it, not all the other people.
So for me it's very easy tolose the thread of the purpose
of marketing.
Yeah, because it's huge.
Marketing is a huge umbrella.

(40:23):
Sales is sales.
Sales is like the simplest ofthe things.
I hate to tell you this, youguys, but the reason why you
want to care about sales isbecause it's so much simpler
than marketing.
Marketing is this like umbrellathat has all of these spokes
and they're each their own thing, right.
So PR, branding, digital, andthen even digital has its own

(40:45):
little baby spokes.
That would just make for afunny looking umbrella just for
a funny looking umbrella.
But you know, in personmarketing it's wide, it's huge,
it's varying, it's massive andso it's easy for me, and
probably every single one ofyour clients, to like get stuck
in that and and forget therevenue generation portion of

(41:09):
pulling someone from the top ofyour marketing funnel all the
way through to the dollar.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Right, right, right.
Yeah, I totally get it, andit's kind of hard to sometimes
always put thoughts in words too, because it's like you keep
seeing it time and time again.
But it's out there and it'shappening.
And I feel like we've actuallytouched on it in the podcast a
couple of times before whereit's like we become so in love
with the idea of what we'reselling versus the actual sale,

(41:34):
right, and then we kind of getinto our own little way of.
I'm trying to think of what itwas.
Gosh, I literally was having acall this morning with Bridget
Bridget.
What did I say?
She's probably not listeningright now.
I think she had a client call,but we were talking about oh, so
my husband works for an AIcompany and they were trying to
create AI agents where you couldactually not just talk to and

(41:56):
create people, but you couldactually talk to a product.
And he was like can you everthink he's an academic and
programmer?
So he's like you know he'slistened and learned a lot by
being around me for 20 plusyears about marketing.
But he asked me, he dared toask me would a person ever want
to talk to a product?
And I said that sounds like amarketer's wet dream.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
I was going to say oh my gosh, I feel like when you
talk about marketers' headsexploding, they're like you're
going to get blown up with.
Hey, amy, does he want to doany like beta?
I'm happy to talk to him.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yes, they do, but it's like that's the thing,
though.
It's like you know what, unlessyou are truly solving a problem
for a customer so, say, I needto put together a piece of
furniture, yeah.
If you want to have a bot or anagent that will talk me
verbally through so I don't haveto keep reading the directions
or instructions or somethinglike that, then yeah, but make
it useful.
But I would I want to talk tojust a bottle of ketchup.

(42:50):
Hells, no, Like I have morethings to do with my life right
now.
I'm just I'm just now worryingdo I need ketchup, Cause I'm
pretty sure we're getting low,so maybe I need to order some
like that's.
That's the reality.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
So I think that's me.
I'm like do you need ketchup?
What would it look like if youhad no?
Ketchup is sugary, you know,grow your own tomatoes, squish
them, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
I don't know.
I have to make a lot more salesbefore I have that kind of,
before I can buy that kind oftime, Katie.
But that's what I mean, though,is, I think sometimes, by
marketing it's like you know weget so excited, and, again, I am
a former creative director andwill always be a creative
director deep down in my core,and so, yes, love brilliant, big
, conceptual ideas, but at theend of the day like again, at

(43:36):
the end of the day, are theycreating the sales?
Are you solving the problemsthat are truly out there in the
world that are happening forpeople?
And if you aren't focusing,like you're saying, on that
sales and putting that first andthen reverse engineering, then
you're kind of just making abunch of stuff that really ain't
opening Cause.
You're just kind of adding tothe proverbial garbage of the
advertising universe, you knowwhich.

(43:57):
Honestly, the end of the day,too let's.
I mean I don't mean to go liketotally down a rabbit hole here
and get on my soapbox too much,going in two directions at once.
I'm sorry for all my ADDfriends that are riding along
this train with me, but youreally are like you are adding
to there's carbon footprint, tothe stuff that we put out there
right Is advertisers.
So it's like, if I can even ifyou can't take anything else

(44:19):
from this too like maybe justthink about it from that
perspective, right.
Like you're not just doing agood thing for your potential
customers and clients andbusiness by focusing on sales
first and then reverseengineering your marketing.
Clients in business.
By focusing on sales first andthen reverse engineering your
marketing, you're also savingmoney time planet.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
I mean, come on, it's a win, win, win.
I completely agree with you onthat.
I had a friend who was inmarketing.
She was the first person whosaid to me content is spam, yeah
, and um, I mean, we would armwrestle about that concept and
to some extent, it can be true.
Marketers my favorite thingabout them is that their brain
is constantly working towardssolving the riddle of how can

(45:00):
you say this differently forthis target market, so that they
can hear this message which Ilove about marketers?
I would also put forward thatsomehow and this is a mistake
that I made and I have to bevery intentional in thinking
about it Sales is a verycreative function for your

(45:22):
business.
If you close your eyes and youthink about your top 10 clients,
I would bet that they weren'tall sold in the same way,
because humans be different.
So don't forget that yourcreativity can be utilized in
your sales function as well.
For the longest time, I justthought you know what Sales is

(45:42):
like, the most mathematical ofthe thing you get, because you
hear it all the time Like for,even if you're bad at sales,
you'll close 10% of the deals.
Now, that's absolutely true.
If you're a huge corporation,you're on a regular cold calling
track, all of these things.
If you're a business owner whoonly wants to talk to qualified
people who are potentiallyinterested in your services,

(46:05):
it's going to look vastlydifferent, different and so just
don't forget that you don'thave to take the creativity out
of who you are in an effort tospell Absolutely.
When I told my people on a stageonce that, like I always
thought I was the least creativeperson ever, I wasn't the

(46:25):
person in my house who likeembroidered stuff or stamped
cards or was our quote unquote,artistic at all I got so much
pushback and what my people saidis Katie, you like the words
that you use just to make thingsavailable to people and the
different types of perspectivesthat you put forward is vastly

(46:48):
creative and I really had tothink about it all differently.
So I would challenge everybodywho thinks that sales is like
such a dry thing.
You have the capability to beas creative as you want in your
sale.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
And I was going to say I oftentimes think that it's
funny, I think after a whiletoo, once you know your product
or your service inside and outand you truly do believe in it,
like you are selling and youdon't even realize that you're
selling and that's to be likethe best kind of selling right.
So I'm kind of wondering, withthat and the homework that I
have.
You say every business actionis a sales conversation.

(47:21):
So with this kind ofperspective shift like, how can
businesses, business owners likemyself, implement this mindset
in their day to day operations?

Speaker 2 (47:30):
owners like myself, implement this mindset in their
day-to-day operations.
Four I'll give it to you guyseasy because it can start from a
marketing place.
So every conversation you have,whether it's online, in person
heaven forbid it be on the phone.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Wait, what those things that you can talk through
those?

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Yes, I love it Just to hear someone's voice.
Imagine not being for those ofus that may have more
neurodivergence than others.
If we could just listen to avoice, how could that help us?
So all of that, how you presentyourself, is your marketing, is

(48:08):
your in-person marketing.
And so, even without quote,unquote, being pushy, you guys
have no idea how hard that isfor me to say but, I know that
some of you all feel that way orbeing salesy not a real word.
Try to look it up.
If you are just being you, thisis what I mean by every

(48:32):
conversation is a businesstransaction.
Just by you and I having thisconversation and educating
people, or literally justenjoying each other's company
and having a great conversationabout things that you and I love
.
It has the ability to turn intobusiness, yeah Right, and you
never know where that's going tobe.
So be that all the time.

(48:54):
You love your stuff.
You're the expert at this thing.
You know you help people yeah,so just embody that everywhere
you go.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yeah, yeah, love it.
I agree, I agree, I thinkthat's where it's gotten easier
for me over the years.
It's like I just kind of getinto my zone and then I'm like,
oh, didn't realize I was sellingit.
I agree, I agree, I thinkthat's where it's gotten easier
for me over the years is like Ijust kind of get into my zone
and then I'm like, oh, didn'trealize I was selling it, didn't
realize I was like I'm justgushing because I like what I do
and I believe in our missionand our members and our
community, because I've seendirectly, having gone from
member to business owner of theorganization that I was a very

(49:27):
member of, that like this can bea life-changing experience and
opportunity and it doesn't feellike a sale at all.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
It's just the damn truth, people at the end of the
day as long.
So I think you know, oh, thetruth, we don't have a whole lot
of time and we're notinterested in getting into, like
the world at large right, butwe need 10 more hours, right.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
I'll call you later with a cocktail girl.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Let's do it you know, um, we get to decide who we are
like.
There are words that we use todescribe ourselves, and I would
bet with 99.9 certainty that themajority of your membership and
listeners to your podcast areintegral people, meaning that
they're very, very honest people.
So you don't have to worry, youdon't have to fret, you don't

(50:19):
have to put a whole lot of timeand energy into being something
you're not.
And if we're talking aboutcreating longer runways, how
great is that Truth as anefficiency in business?
Imagine that.
You know it's the best.
The reason why it works for youto sell that way is because it

(50:41):
is true.
Therefore, it rings true.
I'm sure there's like aneuropsychological reason why
truth rings.
Is it a saying?
I'm sure we could look that upNow.
I really want to look that up.

(51:05):
See, it's not just you.
But it also it is one of thethings that your buyers want.
Whoever you are, whatever yourtarget market is, your buyer
wants to believe you.
So if you're just telling thetruth, you never have to worry
about it.
It can be the easiest thing.
Yeah, yeah, this is what itlooks like and you don't have to
be concerned about it.
You've done all of the amazingmarketing work.
You've got potential people whowant to pay you in your

(51:27):
pipeline right now, so just gobe honest with them.
Yeah, I took a look at yourwebsite.
You've got X, y and Z going on.
Girl, it's no bueno, you know.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Yeah, yeah, do a favor.
I love it All right, there's astatistic that you cite that 90%
of businesses don't reach theirsales goals.
It's pretty staggering.
What are some of the reasonswhy you feel like this is such a
statistic?

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Yeah, I think.
The last time I looked it up itwas like 98% of solopreneurs
don't hit 100K.
And the reason for that iseverything that we've already
mentioned.
Their focus and intention iselsewhere.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Instead of choosing very purposefully to go figure
out how much the people theythink they help will pay them to
do that very thing.
If you focus on anything elsefirst, every time you do that
you're putting a boulder infront of your success, and so

(52:33):
when we do that too much, themountain becomes too high to
climb.
We can't overcome it.
Every single person who runs abusiness understands that, in
addition to choosing to be abusiness owner, you have the
ability to decide whether or notyou want to be a CEO, a founder
, a president like just thetitle of what you are, and

(52:57):
regardless of what you call it,it's a whole thing.
Just like the title of mom orpartner, or like those are also
whole things when you're anemployee versus a business owner
.
Those two holes aren't equal.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Yeah, no, that's true .

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Being an entrepreneur requires more of you than
anything.
You and I talked about thisright and I said, oh, it's such
a controversial statement.
Parents don't like it when Isay this, but being an
entrepreneur requires more ofyou than even being a parent,
like in the confines of your ownhome.
Your kids don't expect you tobe perfect, your clients kind of
do Right.

(53:39):
So there is so much pressure onus to get it right and I think
the majority of us never make itbecause we don't focus on the
right thing.
If we are looking for ourbusinesses to be successful
meaning our business pays foritself and it pays us, yeah,

(54:02):
right, and I mean it pays us asalary, and I mean it pays us a
livable salary and if we'relucky, because what we're
looking to create, it won't justgive us a livable salary.
It will also do things like payfor our insurance, like
businesses should, or like thecompany we would want to work
for would, right.
It pays us for our paidvacation time.
It pays into our retirement andour long-term health insurance.

(54:23):
It helps pay for kids' collegeor whatever.
That is you guys.
But when we stop focusing onthat, we get further and further
away from it and so many peoplecrash and burn to like just
burnout lack of funds.
They can't go any further.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Right, right, right.
Or just building that mountainof debt, which is also another
slippery slope for a lot ofsmall businesses out there.
Yeah, and I mean on that notewith you know, as a small
business or solopreneur withlimited resources, you know,
obviously we're saying I feellike the question answers, we've
answered it.
I don't know why I put this oneso far down, focusing on

(55:05):
building a sales process firstor our content marketing first.
So, instead of asking thatobvious question, I'm going to
say where do we start inevaluating and building our
sales process as entrepreneursor small business owners?

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Don't worry about it being a process depending on how
big a company you start rightaway, like if you're a bootstrap
scenario and it's you, ifyou're the solopreneur, don't
worry about the word process.
Gosh, that sounds socomplicated for what it is.
Just go sell your thing.
Go sell your thing and if itdoesn't hit your market, look at
two things Is it what I'moffering it or is it the market?

(55:41):
Yep, yep.
And then go from there and thentry to sell the thing again,
either in a different way or toa different market, and see what
you get.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
Yes, I really like that, and I think focusing on
both offer and market are reallycritical.
So I actually want to dig in alittle bit deeper on that.
I think that we're getting soclose to time.
Where did the time go?
But, like, offer is soparamount and market is also so
paramount, and by market again,we're not talking marketing,
we're talking about who you aretalking to.
Maybe give us like two goodpieces of advice on both making

(56:12):
sure that we're you know we weredoing the right kinds of offers
and that we are looking at theright market.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Okay.
So it will start with yourexpertise, right?
So let's start with your offerfirst, because it's the easiest
to understand.
You come with some sexy stuff.
You come with some sexy stuff.
You come with some sexy stuff,uh.
So you're going to move forwardin that vein.
You already you started abusiness because of that very

(56:39):
thing.
So start with that.
Start with what you think isyour sexiest, juiciest like
everybody's going to want to eatit up with a spoon.
You think in your mind it's theeasiest thing on earth to
understand.
So start with that as youroffer.
Now you're going to pick amarket, you're going to pick a
niche is what amy's talkingabout in a different way to say
it, since we're marketing versusmarket.

(56:59):
Um, you will know if you haveit right after 90 days.
If you are highly focused onyour niche for 90 days and you
don't get anything, it's thewrong niche and that's okay.
You will have so much dataabout why that's the wrong niche

(57:21):
.
You'll have language that willpoint you to the right direction
.
So it is okay.
If you are adding a niche or ifyou are subtracting a niche and
going in a different direction,do it sooner rather than later.
I think would be in an effortto stay in time.
That's what I would give people.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
I think that's great advice.
Yeah, and definitely looking atyour market.
Can they afford what you'reselling?
Are they truly your market ornot?
I think that's sometimes hardto acknowledge and realize.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Or you may just not know.
So ask.
Don't forget when you'retalking to your people ask for
budget.
I know you guys, I know I justheard every single one of you
cringe, knock it off.
Let me put it to you adifferent way.
Do you like getting superexcited about something and then
hearing the price and havingyour heart fall and be like, oh,

(58:12):
I love you, but that's just notme right now.
Why would you want to do thatto your people?
So just ask them.
So you're looking to have awebsite built.
Can I ask what you think youwere looking to pay for that?
Do you know what your budgetshould be?
It's a great opportunity toeducate them on what that should

(58:32):
look like, based on what theirgoals are, and it gives you an
idea of like oh wow, peoplereally don't know, or this
market isn't the right niche forme.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
Exactly, yeah, 100%.
All right, live listeners.
You've got the chance here toask a question, if you've got
one of Katie, but we appreciateall your engagement and comments
in the chat while we've beenchatting here ourselves.
Katie, we've got like a minuteleft, so I'm just going to ask
you my favorite question that wehad for you in the Power Round
question today, and that waswhat is your go-to response when

(59:06):
a prospect says I need to thinkabout it.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Great.
What do you need to think about?
I love that.
I love it.
You know, you guys, at the endof the day, sales is a
conversation.
I know people will say sales iseducation, sales is a solution,
sales is all these things.
But really you're talking tosomebody.
So if somebody said I need tothink about that, my question
one, they should never ask thatbecause at the end of your
presentation you will say isthere any other question that

(59:40):
you have for me that I cananswer?
That will let you know I'm theright company for you.
So ultimately they should neverask that.
You get ahead of that question.
But if you have forgotten toask that question, they say I
just need to think about it.
I love that for you.
What exactly do you need tothink about?
What questions do you have thatI can answer?
What's your timeline on that?
How long are you willing tohave this be a problem or a

(01:00:00):
challenge?
for you before you're ready totake care of it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
I love that one.
That's a good one right there.
That's money Because, yeah,they're just sitting there Again
.
If you have the right audience,the right market and you have
the right offer, that it feelslike stupid to refuse, right?
And then they still have this.
Oh, that last question, that'sperfect, I love it.
I'm going to have to play thatone back a couple times.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
They're good.
And, ladies and gents, add itearlier when you're qualifying
your people, before you everpresent the amazingness of you
ask them all these things upfront.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
How?
The amazingness of you Ask themall these things up front.
How long, yeah, how long areyou willing to let this continue
to be an issue?
How much longer do you wantthis to keep you up at night?
Because I can just solve it foryou right now.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
The sale doesn't happen when you ask them the
question about whether or notthey want to do business.
It happens way before that.
So we should never leave anyopportunity for a question like
that to be at the end.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Well, on that phenomenal advice, we'll go ahead and wrap it.
Don't worry, my friends andnumbers Katie is in our Slack,
so if you all want to ask hermore questions, you can feel
free to jump into Slack, maybeget some time with her.
I also dropped the links to herwebsite and YouTube channel
into the chat, so make sure yougrab those before we hop off.
Katie, thank you so much forsharing all of your expertise

(01:01:10):
and insights with our communityand energy Just love it.
Your perspective onprioritizing sales and the
importance of cash flow asbusiness oxygen is, I hope,
going to help save and keep alot of good businesses going,
because we've got a lot ofawesome business owners here
within our group.
So, basically, make sure thatyou all connect with Katie on
LinkedIn or on our Slack and toour Power Lounge community.

(01:01:33):
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, please share it
with a colleague or someone whoelse might benefit from the
insights.
Remember that at TogetherDigital, we believe in sharing
our knowledge, power andconnections, and to learn more
about the community upcomingevents, again, check out our
website togetherindigitalcom.
Until next week.
Everyone keep asking oh, no,wait.
Keep giving and keep growing.

(01:01:53):
Not next week.
We are taking a two-week break.
Y'all, it's spring break.
I'm going to be in Austin forSouth by next week and then in
the mountains with my kiddos theweek after.
So please go back and check outsome of our past episodes.
We have got three amazingseasons of wonderful, amazing,
powerful women, such as Katie,for you to listen and learn and
grow from.
So, yeah, we'll see you all atthe end of March.
Everyone take care till then.

(01:02:15):
Bye.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
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