Undiplomatic: Leadership Impact & Elevating Untapped Talent

Welcome to the Power Lounge. In this episode, host Amy Vaughan speaks with Deesha Dyer, a seasoned social impact strategist, author, and leader whose career journey spans from community college to serving as White House Social Secretary under President Obama. Deesha discusses her experiences navigating unconventional paths to leadership, building authentic confidence, and transforming imposter syndrome into empowerment.

Amy and Deesha explore the challenges of being a pioneer in traditional environments like the White House and share practical strategies for maintaining authenticity under pressure. They also delve into Deesha's book, "Undiplomatic," which offers guidance on elevating untapped talent and fostering genuine equity and inclusion within organizations.

This conversation provides valuable insights for anyone striving to advance in their career, make a meaningful impact in their community, or seek authenticity in their professional life. Learn why true leadership comes from within, how to dismantle barriers to diverse leadership, and why your unique journey can be your greatest strength.

Deesha Dyer is a social impact strategist and author of "Undiplomatic." Her path from community college to White House Social Secretary exemplifies the power of nontraditional leadership. As the founder of Hook & Fasten, Deesha helps organizations navigate the evolving landscape of leadership, social impact, and equity, focusing on empowering untapped talent.

Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
01:40 - Ongoing Leadership Journey
04:54 - Oval Office Imposter Syndrome
07:54 - Nervousness versus Confidence Confusion
10:22 - Staying Grounded Through Experience
14:01 - Authenticity in Tough Environments
16:50 - "Fix Bias Before Hiring Diversity"
21:45 - Champion Women in Hip Hop
25:15 - Corporate-Community Partnerships for Essential Needs
27:40 - Maslow's Hierarchy and Marketing Impact
30:55 - Making Paths Easier for Others
34:37 - Corporate Responsibility for Social Equity
37:26 - Rediscovering Childhood Joys
40:22 - Rethinking Success: Opportunity Over Intelligence
45:05 - Believe in Yourself
47:40 - Navigating Job Posting Uncertainty
49:31 - "Striving vs. Being: A Crisis"
52:42 - "Power Lounge Chat Highlights"
53:03 - Outro

Quotes:
"Believe in your abilities and your talent, even if your path doesn’t look like anyone else’s. You are one of one, and your perspective is needed."- Deesha Dyer

"Celebrate your wins and remember: courage comes after the action, not before. Sometimes being brave is just being afraid and doing it anyway."- Amy Vaughan

Key Takeaways:
Nontraditional Paths Are Powerful
Confidence Lives Inside You
Imposter Syndrome vs. Authentic Confidence
Be the Example for Others
Rethink Merit and Opportunity
Challenge Harmful Systems, Not Just Individuals
Community and Connection are Anchors
Don’t Wait for Permission
Resilience Means Self-Care and Staying Curious
Legacy is Leaving It Better

Check out Deesha Dye’s book: https://a.co/d/hTd9wqI

Connect with Deesha Dyer:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deeshadyer
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/deedyer267/?hl=en
Website: https://www.hookandfasten.com/

Connect with the host Amy Vaughan:
LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/amypvaughan
Podcast: https://www.togetherindigital.com/podcast/

Learn more about Together Digital and consider joining the movement

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly Power
Lounge.
This is your place to hearauthentic conversations from
those who have power to share.
My name is Amy Vaughn and I amthe owner and chief empowerment
officer of Together Digital, adiverse and collaborative
community of women who work indigital and choose to share
their knowledge, power andconnections.
You can join the movement attogetherindigitalcom and today I

(00:31):
am so thrilled to welcome DishaDyer.
She is a social impactstrategist, author,
transformational leader, whoseextraordinary journey
exemplifies how the power ofnon-traditional paths to
leadership can be so satisfyingand so transformative.
From a community student,college student to White House
social secretary under the Obamaadministration, deesha has

(00:55):
navigated spaces where she neverexpected to belong and thrived.
Now, as the founder and CEO ofHook Fasten, she helps
organizations navigate theevolving landscape of leadership
, social impact and equity.
Her recent book Undiplomatic,which our Together Digital
members read and loved andactually had Disha with us for a

(01:15):
discussion, shares her personalstory of turning imposter
syndrome into confidence andcreating systems that allow
diverse leadership to flourish.
Highly recommend 10 out of 10.
Read Disha's unique perspective, from working at the highest
levels of government to hercurrent work centering untapped
talent, offers an invaluablewisdom and authentic leadership
and meaningful change.

(01:35):
Disha, we are so happy to haveyou here with us at the
PowerLoud to meet more of ouramazing community.
Thanks for joining us today.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's good to be in conversationagain after the book event so
happy to be here, thank youeveryone for joining.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Absolutely.
We wanted more Deesha.
We're like bring her back,let's have more conversation.
Because you know your journeyand your experience.
I have a lot of women on thispodcast and we always start
asking like, what has yourjourney been like?
You know I'm not a huge fan ofsuccess without strife and I
really love when women sharetheir authentic experiences and
stories because it really helpsothers see themselves in the

(02:12):
opportunities that maybe haven'tcome to them yet, but to know
that they're there.
So you started off as acommunity college student and
eventually rose to the WhiteHouse Social Secretary.
It's absolutely remarkable.
I loved hearing and readingyour story and then getting to
meet you, but I'm curious whatwas one of the most unexpected
lessons you learned aboutleadership during all of that

(02:33):
transition?

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, I think you know, honestly, I'm continuing
to learn about leadership numberone.
So even though I've reachedthis, you know, this high
pinnacle of working at the WhiteHouse, even though I've reached

(02:55):
this high pinnacle of workingat the White House, my student
journey of learning is alwaysgoing as I grow and as I
discover different me to be agood leader already, versus I
have to learn how to do this andlearn how to do that.
Obviously, there are somethings like managing people or

(03:16):
changing to the environment thatwe do have to do, but the core
qualities of service, of seeingpeople, of instilling confidence
, of delegation, like all thosethings, are things that were
inside of me.
They just were activated evenmore once I got to the White
House, and so I think that was asurprise for me, because I
thought I had to take all theseclasses or all these

(03:38):
certifications or read all thesebooks to kind of be a good
leader, which I think thosethings enhance you as a leader.
But to me, I had the qualitiesalready in me.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
And that tracks right .
I think they say, like, what isit?
Women or men will apply forjobs if they're 60% qualified.
Women will wait till they're100, 110% qualified, and we're
like holding ourselves back.
And I think one other thing Iloved about hearing your story
and journey is that there wereand I'm fortunate I'm a
beneficiary as well of peopleseeing the potential in me and

(04:09):
lifting me up and encouraging me, and I felt like that was very
similar for you as well, wherethey were like Tisha, like yeah,
you are the person to do this.
And you're like, oh yeah, you'reright, I am, you know, and I
think that's something amazingthat we can do for others, and I
would love to see more men andwomen do for women in general as
well as just really see thatpotential in others and lift
them up, you know, and call themout for those things Because,

(04:32):
yeah, when you've got it, you'vegot it and you know we need to
lift each other up for thosekinds of situations.
So, yeah, let's talk a littlebit more about your book on
diplomatic and how, especially,you're focused on transforming
imposter syndrome into authenticconfidence, which you know,

(04:52):
those two words, both authenticand imposter syndrome, get used
a lot, um so context and storiesfor me and our listeners are
always great.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
I'd love it if you could share a moment when you
realized that you belonged inthe rooms, that others might
have questioned your presence um, I would say just, you know,
honestly, for the sake of alsoreally entertaining people that
are listening, and here I wouldsay the Oval Office.
You know, I think that when wethink of the Oval Office,
obviously it's in the West Wing,it's where the president works

(05:17):
and you know where he has allthese important meetings.
He, she, has these importantmeetings and for me, being in
that space, I was like am I here?
Like to just like get the water, like I was like what service
capacity could I do?
Which is, again, no problemdoing that, but I was like kind
of like I'm in service ofeverybody in here versus being

(05:40):
on the team of everybody in here, kind of working together and
for me that was a big joltbecause I for a long time was
like you know, I don't reallybelong in here.
Wait till they find out that I,you know, went to community
college.
I don't have any four-yeardegree, but nobody asked those
questions.
So I think that oftentimes weget these spaces and like we're

(06:03):
going to be found out, but who'snobody's asking?
Nobody said like what's youreducation level before you start
talking and before you'reinvited in this meeting they saw
the qualities of who I was, andso I would say that was
probably the biggest jolt for me.
You know, it was like the hey,like I belong here, just like
you do.
I don't even know where youcame from.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Next, to me Exactly, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
So for me to assume that everybody in here is like
talking about me is like alittle bit of a paranoia.
So that for me really helped,you know me, see that I did
belong.
And that's not to discount thetimes where you know there are
forces and people that do workagainst us, that want to see us
feel inferior, you know.

(06:44):
But thankfully for me, likethat was not one of those times.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
That's good.
That's good.
Yeah, I love that you were soseen and supported in that space
, because it can be such achallenging environment Again
when it's like something likesocial secretary is a highly
competitive and sought afterrole, is it not?

Speaker 2 (07:01):
It's extremely sought after and, for the listeners
just also who don't know whatthat is, the social secretary is
in charge of all of the eventsin 1600 Pennsylvania, so like
actually the White House.
So everything from privateevents to public events to large
events, and it's very, it's avery social social position that
people see.
Yeah, high visibility, highstress, high pressure.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
That's a lot.
And for you to have steppedinto that and just really owned
it and again like truly had doneit so well, is impressive, and
it's one of those things.
I think it's like everybody'sjust you know, a little bit of
fake in it till they make it.
I always say courage comesafter the action, not before,
and that being brave is justbeing afraid of doing it anyway.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yes, very much so.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Because when you get into a room like that, it's like
you have to make the most of itand I think that internal
narrative of imposter syndrome,you know, I think it sounds like
what you did there in thatmoment was acknowledge that.
It was like, okay, that's likethat's the voice, that's the
doubt, but that doesn't make itthe reality.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
Right course.
I think that there's that,definitely agree with that.
But I think there's also thefact of confusing it with being
nervous.
Like you know, of course, who'snot gonna be nervous walking
into the oval office.
You know, like that is notsomething that I, that I've
grown up doing, you know what Imean, so I don't know how to do
that.
So I think that there is theconfusion sometimes of, like,

(08:24):
the confidence factor with thenerves factor, and if you're
nervous about something, it's anatural emotion, it's natural to
be, like, scared and nervous.
But I think we have to payattention to it when it starts
to seep into our conscious ofwe're not qualified, we're not
talented, we're not worthy norvalued.
But it was definitely like alot of you know, just me sitting

(08:45):
there, like not wanting to makeany noise, I'm not going to
breathe, I'm not going tobreathe, I'm supposed to sit
here and wait to be called on.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
You know I can totally empathize.
One thing I have done withothers if I'm coaching and
they're nervous about speakingor being in a certain public,
you know, environment is I tellthem, to tell yourself you're
excited not scared because yourbody physiologically responds
the same way when you're excitedversus nervous.
It's just really just a mindsetshift.
And then I've noticed that I'mlike okay, I'm just excited to

(09:17):
be here.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, nervous.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Just really.
I'm really excited about thistalk I'm about ready to do.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
I know I seem going to implement that, so thank you
it is.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
It is really helped me, you know, step into some
situations now not the WhiteHouse, but, you know, in some
situations that has reallyhelped me kind of stay grounded
and focused as well, because Ithink this is what I like about
you too, disha is like yourauthentic voice and personality.
It feels like at least havingread your book and met you,
you're just so true to yourselffrom beginning to end.

(09:47):
It doesn't feel like this hugerole and opportunity changed you
in any way.
Can you give me some?
I don't know this is a bonusquestion from what I sent you,
but your thoughts on howmaintaining your authenticity or
maybe I have it later in thequestions and I forgot and I'm
getting ahead.
Here it is.
Look at that, I have it rightthere.
Many of our members arenavigating careers where they

(10:08):
would be the first or the only.
It was exactly the nextquestion in their position.
What strategies have helped youmaintain authentic self while
working in highly traditionalwhite houses or white houses?
Well, highly traditionalenvironments like the White
House?

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yes, definitely, definitely.
And this just means that you'relike on point, like your mind
is on point with the questions.
I'm already on track with thequestions.
I would say the way that I getprepared is looking number one,
looking at my body of work, whatI've already done, and saying
to myself, like you got throughall of these things or
situations, or jobs, or tasks,or whatever it is being yourself

(10:47):
and you survived, like yousucceeded not that it's hard,
that that it was easy, but yousucceeded, yeah, and so that is
proof that you can get throughwhatever.
This is right.
I think that the other thing is,for me, staying close to
community was extremelyimportant.
So when you walk inside thewhite, when you walk inside the
White House, you walk inside thegate.
You're like on the complex, youknow so.

(11:09):
You're like behind the gateit's closed, like it's this
beautiful space, you know so youkind of sometimes can get shut
out from the rest of the world.
That's where you work, it's allthe time, and so I would always
make sure that I like eithervolunteered or even in my role
as social secretary, bought incommunity groups for, you know,

(11:31):
trick or treating or whatever itwas to be able to, like, I
won't say, see normal people butbe connected with my community,
because it's so easy to be tokeep that distance, especially
when you're getting invited toall these fancy things.
So I think there's that and Ithink the other thing that was
and I probably said this duringthe book talk too, so you're
probably hearing some repetitionbut, one of the most important
things was I had to get used tothe fact that not everyone was

(11:54):
going to understand me oreveryone was going to like me,
and I think that once I digestedthat as nothing personal.
But that's just the way we areLike.
We look at different people andwe're like that personality is
not for me, or that person is alittle this and it's okay.
So I had to basically focus onmy talent, my worth, my value

(12:15):
and the task at hand or the job,versus me saying let me try to
change who I am to not makepeople think about me then.
therefore, then my my efforttowards a job or whatever it was
would decrease because I'd beso worried about how I would
look.
So I think that I had to likeand that's probably the hardest

(12:36):
one was like accepting that likepeople were going to talk about
me and people were going to saythings and I had to be kind of
okay with that.
As long as I did my job well, Irespected people.
I had to be okay with like kindof not being like sometimes and
it sucks, but I think that's akey to me remaining who I am.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
I love that.
That is such fantastic adviceand I agree.
I'm going to go back to whatyou said first, which is
celebrate the wins.
I think so oftentimes we'rejust like go, go, go right.
We never stop and look at thewhole of our existence and
career and be like holy crap, Ihave accomplished a lot.
I have already done so much Ihave already survived a lot, you
know.
And then that, going back tothat proof time and time again,

(13:18):
that's such a great reminder,deesha.
And there's something toobviously to likability.
You know, there's thelikability penalty penalty for
women, you know.
Studies and research show thatthey be deemed.
They are deemed less likablethe higher they go, you know,
and that definitely goes forwomen of color as well.
So it's like you've got thatdouble whammy.
And then what?
The point you made I think is soimportant One, you end up

(13:39):
having this like likabilityexhaustion, right, cause you're
constantly changing who you areand not living in your authentic
self to make other people happy, which basically kind of just
like chips away at your soul,right?
Yes, so exhausting.
But the point that you madethere that was even more
important, I think, for a lot ofus that are trying to do our
jobs and do it well, is that itprobably does impact your

(14:01):
effectiveness If you wereliterally just walking around,
not doing what needs to be donebecause you just want to stay
liked.
You know it's a hard place tobe in, but it's a tough place to
be.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
It's a tough place to be, and I think that there's
always space for us to improveand be better teammates.
So there's it's not a.
You know, I am who.
I am kind of a thing because, Idid have to adapt, but there was
that, like you know, you liketo belong, you want to be part
of a group, and so sometimes,when you're not, I can see how
people are like, well, let mechange myself to be more likable

(14:31):
, because it's easier.
But in the end I could go homeand look in the mirror and say
that I remained who I was.
Or I could look at little blackgirls that would come to the
White House and be like I'm, I'mwearing these earrings, I'm
wearing my nose ring, but I'mreally good at my job, you know.
So, like, does this reallymatter?
Be the example, right?

Speaker 1 (14:50):
no, you are, you were being an incredible model by
you know, showing up and beingyourself, and I guess I know
that's not easy for everybodyand others it comes more
naturally.
But I will say the other sidebenefit is, I feel like that's
how you find your people, youknow it's just's, just by being
a little bit more yourself, andI agree with you.
Don't go out and be an assholeLike nobody wants to work with a
jerk.
You know, be kind to others berespectful, have pride in the

(15:12):
work that you do.
That's really kind of theminimum.
And then, outside of that, it'slike, yeah, if you can kind of
hold that space for yourself,you're really creating an
opportunity and modeling forothers.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
So I love it, love it .

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Let's talk about untapped talent, because that's
another big focus for you.
What are some of the mostcommon barriers you see for
organizations that are creatingthat prevent diverse leadership
from thriving?

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, I mean, there's so many, but I would say You're
like where do we start?

Speaker 1 (15:42):
How much time we got.
I'm like.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
I know, when I read this question I was like we even
out, we even out.
But I would say there's acouple of things.
I think that number one we arestill a society that values like
the highest of degrees at alltimes and I think that
definitely there's a space foreducation and there's a space
for those who have gotten thateducation, that discipline, and

(16:05):
I think that that is admirable.
However, experience, I think,also plays a huge part in what
people can do.
You know, I'm obviously awalking testimony of that that
it wasn't.
I went to the White House withno degree, you know, and I still
was able to climb the ladder.
Obviously, I got my associateswhen I was there.
But I think that we valueeducation over experience and I

(16:30):
think that we need to level thatout a little bit more and
that'll open the pool to sometalent that, you know, kind of
see things in a differentperspective because they didn't
go through the formal educationsystem, so they might have a
better way of doing things right.
So I think that there's that.
I think that we have notgrappled with, like, what
diversity means and have thebenefit of diversity to our work

(16:51):
environments or industries, andthat's obviously not just race,
it's class, it's gender, it'ssexual orientation, it is all
the things it's like better instatus, right, it's disability,
it's age.
And I think that we have notdone the work inside of many
C-suites or companies to saylet's fix our bias, let's fix,

(17:12):
like, what's going on with usbefore we just pile, you know,
more diversity in to be harmedby us not fixing ourselves, you
know.
I think that there's definitelythat.
And then I think that we haveto go outside of our.
You know, if I work somewhere,I want my friends to be hired
there too, especially my friendsworking for a job.
I'm like, let me call my friend, you know.

(17:32):
But I think that we have to lookoutside of our friend groups
and outside of our associationsfor talent Like you know, I, I
shouldn't be hiring all of myfriends you know what I mean.
Like it's all that we think thesame we.
I want different opinions anddifferent thoughts, and so I
think that that's another, youknow.
And then just the exposure.
I mean like where are thesejobs getting posted?

Speaker 1 (17:53):
are they even?

Speaker 2 (17:54):
real some of these jobs oh my gosh you know, like
you know what's the exposurejust to these top jobs, like
helping people get in their footin the door, you know, is what
I really try to do.
You know I can boost up yourresume, your application, your
name.
The rest is up to you you know,but just getting somebody
helping them get their foot inthe door, I think is really
important too.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, I agree, I love it.
You started with the rightpoint of like.
We have to fix the problemwhere it lies, which is at the
top, and I think that's onething.
For as much as I love, you know, the ERGs that have emerged
over the last few years.
I was a part of one before theywere even called ERGs.
I was helping to create one atan agency I worked at and even

(18:36):
at the time it kind of rubbed methe wrong way.
I'm like why do I marginalizedperson in the office who didn't
create this problem, have tocreate the safe space and
address and fix the problems andeducate all the people on the
problem and not get paid to doit?

Speaker 2 (18:52):
yeah, there we go, there we go, I mean, and you
care about it as an individual,of course, and so you're gonna
pour all you can into it, andthen next thing you know, you're
like wait a minute yeah, that'sexactly why I'm here.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
It is exactly exactly why I'm here.
I was a Together Digital member, first joined the community
while I was at that agencybecause it was just really hard
to really find true diversityand have what felt like safe
conversations.
I had to go outside the fourwalls of my company to do that.
And luckily for me, my companywas in agreeance and they
supported and sponsored me as amember for many years, and so,

(19:30):
yeah, it is really.
I think it is one of thosethings that has to start at the
top.
The other thing that youmentioned I think that is
important, I keep hearing itover and over again is that
people need to be a culture add,not a culture fit, so we don't
fall into the group thing, andit's not about everybody
thinking alike, but adding two.
And then another point you madeit's so great that job
descriptions like if you haveany hand in helping writing

(19:52):
those, I think, really lookingat them and making sure that
they aren't, you know, ableist,that they're not sexist, that
they're not, you know, reallywritten in a way that might
actually discourage somebody whodoesn't have a four-year degree
, for example, even to applylike make it, you know, make it
specific about the job.
But you're right, livedexperience, you know.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
I mean I went to college for four years and
studied advertising design, butI've been in the industry for
four times as long you know, youknow how much I learned, yeah,
and they even just I always saylike even just if somebody's you
know a secretary and theirassistant in a place, like it's

(20:32):
still like the exposure to youknow, whatever industry and
whatever field and sector.
And I think at a time wherewe're talking about you know,
we're worried about the worktalent pipeline you know, it's
just like well, like you know,it's drying up here.
If you know, if we don't, wedon't have some people.
Some, right, you know some.
You know it's drying up here.
If you know, if we don't, wedon't have some people some you
know some untapped talent.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
So, yeah, there's a lot out there, yeah, and I think
for those who are that kind ofin that position of feeling like
they're untapped talent, I doreally think it is a lot of
looking at the whole of yourexperience, I think that was
interesting to you.
Again, y'all got to go get thebook, but you talk about, like,
your upbringing and yourinvolvement in the community and
advocacy and all of thosethings, and so it wasn't even
about ever getting that fouryear degree.
It was every, every volunteeractivity, every extracurricular

(21:12):
activity that you had from ayoung age that really helped
prepare you to do the job thatyou end up getting to do.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, and Amy, and I think you can probably assess
this I'm sure you did not, like10 years ago, say I'm going to
run this podcast, you know.
But I think you can probablyattest to this, because I'm sure
you did not, like 10 years ago,say I'm going to run this
podcast, you know.
But I think that that's whystaying true to yourself and
what you love is so important,because you think that, like
this is not going to, you know,I don't know how this is going
to benefit me in the future orif it even will.
So I think we've gotten to aspace where we look at

(21:40):
everything that we do as likecan I monetize this, can I use
this in network?
And I'm not discouraging thatever, but let's not forget about
our creativity and curiosityand just our basic love for
things.
And I think for me, going along,like you know, being a hip hop
journalist and that was becauseI really wanted to write about
women in the culture and I waslike I'm so sick of women being

(22:03):
just like, oh, we're justdancers and videos.
I'm like, no, there's like womenproducers and rappers and
artists, graffiti artists thatshould be held up.
And so I started writing aboutthem Right and then fast forward
to the White House, where itwas like this job, where was my
role to bring in, like culture,you know, and music, and I'm
like I never thought back then.

(22:24):
I was like I'm doing this, sothis can benefit me years later.
So I think that we have toremember our hobbies and our
creativity and our curiosity ofwhat we love to do and I feel
like I really do truly feel likethings do align, you know.
You just don't know when, youdon't know how, but things do
align and so that's another,that's another, you know, you
know, making the case forstaying true to what you love

(22:46):
and who you are got to goanother year at this other
agency.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
That's when we started the ERG and you're so
right, like I just kind offollowed that passion of
championing and advocating forwomen, because up to that point
I had a lot of privilege, Ididn't really recognize and
realize like I had a lot ofgreat male allies and advocates,
you know, and because of that Iwas able to move through the
ranks of agencies and get tocreative director at a fairly
decent age, you know,considering I actually took a

(23:27):
year gap from school, went backto school and then actually took
another year hiatus because ofmoving to outside of the country
and just doing freelance jobswhile I was there.
So, yeah, I mean it really isthe summation of your whole of
experience and really followingyour passions that helps you
find your purpose andopportunities to the point that,
like you was I mean I didn'texpect it was standing in the
hallway of our nationalconference for together digital.

(23:49):
Ironically, the founder ran forcongress just one time.
She didn't, she didn't make it,but she tried.
Um, the goal was to kind of notwin, kind of lay the groundwork
and then come back and runagain.
But it was a lot for her,learned a lot about, learned a
lot about running for politicaloffice.
Uh, yeah and gently yes, itsure is.
And so, anyways, in that processI was like, okay, that's great,

(24:11):
you're gonna run for congress,but what about our community?
What about this business?
She's like you run it, likeyou've been running our
cincinnati chapter.
You want to run a business, doit.
I was like what you want?
So you're right.
I, five, ten years ago, if youwould have told me I'd be
running a company and doingpodcasts and talking to amazing
women like you, I'd have beenlike that sounds awesome.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
And highly unlikely.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
But again, yeah, following your passion, staying
true to yourself.
Both of us, hopefully for ourlisteners, are serving, as you
know, we're not, we're not,we're not special cases guys.
There's more like us out there.
We just got to talk about itmore yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
And I think that it also excites me because I'm
excited to see what else I coulddo.
You know, I think that when Ileft the White House, everybody
was like what's next?

Speaker 1 (24:52):
What's next?

Speaker 2 (24:52):
I'm like sleep, but then also just like I don't know
, and that's like exciting andterrifying at the same time.
But it's like like I know I'mgoing to work and I'm going to
do this, but what else is goingto come?
And to me that's exciting thatI get to be that curious.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
I love it.
I love it.
Let's talk about that nextphase and next chapter.
So you're the founder and CEOof Hook Fasten.
How do you help companies movebeyond performative commitments
to equity and create meaningful,sustainable change, especially
in times like these?

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yes, meaningful, sustainable change, especially
in times like these.
Yes, I think you know the waythat we do it.
I just again going back to whatI love and what I've always
done is really be in community.
So I think that, for us, whatwe do with companies is that we
say you know, what are youpassionate about, what are your
employees passionate about?
Or what's your industry Like,what you know, what products do
you have and how can we get thatto communities in a way that is

(25:48):
going to either eliminate aneed food hunger, housing,
whatever it is or alleviate aneed right.
And so we serve as a liaison,like the corporate social
responsibility consultants right, we serve as that between the
corporations and theorganizations.
Sense, right, we serve as thatbetween the corporations and the
organizations.
And I think that too oftentimes, when we do community work

(26:08):
and we love it and I think thatour hearts are very well
intentioned most people theydon't ask the community what do
you need?

Speaker 1 (26:15):
How can we help?

Speaker 2 (26:17):
You know if we're asking you to come in and
brainstorm on something.
Are you getting paid for that,you know?
Do you have something that wecan just enhance that?
And so right now, you know,while the world is really on a
very much axis is like tippedover in many ways.
Right, we are very focusing on,you know, the essentials, you
know, people being able to eat,being able to be housed, mm-hmm

(26:40):
employment, and so we're gettingcompanies now pour into, like
local food banks, right, andlocal housing and give vouchers
and things like that, becausewe're trying to show that, yes,
you know, politics is politics,but we all agree that people
deserve food and they deservehousing, right.
So if we can take a corporationand say, let's create something

(27:02):
where you're able to partnerwith the local food banks in
your area to, like, help withthe deficit they just
experienced, with the shortage,we're not asking you to get
political or make comments,we're asking you just to help
feed people, and so that is whatwe create.
We create the strategy, thecampaign, um, we execute it, um,
or sometimes we just advise onit too.
People just kind of need that.

(27:23):
So that's what we do and and,and you know, I, I love it, I
hate the work like right.
I love it because I love what Iget to do.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
But I hate that.
I have to do it Right, exactly.
Yeah, I say that a lot of timestoo.
My daughter will ask me mom, doyou think I'll run together
digital when I'm older?
Affinity groups, becauseeverything's fine and
everything's good.
But yeah at the rate we're going, probably not.
So yeah sure, If you want torun it, it's yours.

(27:50):
Darling, I love that you makesuch a great point.
You think about Maslow'shierarchy of needs, right, and
there's like that wholeself-actualization portion
that's at the top.
But that's really onlysomething you can start to work
into until you've had thosebasic needs met and so kind of
the shift.
I don't say downshifting, butdownshifting almost to get into
that part of like people's needsto me anyways, is more
effective.
I'll say from, like, a marketingcommunity standpoint.

(28:12):
I think it's been a long heldconversation for us, more than I
think even the recent year ortwo has shown that.
You know a lot of companiesthat are, you know, saying
they're doing diversity efforts.
It's like you're not trulyhaving impact or looking at the
numbers or changing the numbers.
It's like let's slap upsomething on our website, let's
put up something on our socialmedia and while I want to, still

(28:35):
, I would still like to see Iknow a lot of our community
would still like to seebusinesses supporting diversity,
equity and inclusion at thesame time.
It's like, okay, well, if wecan't all find a way to agree on
that, can equity and inclusionat the same time?
It's like, okay, well, if wecan't all find a way to agree on
that, can we at least?
I love this, like you, like yousaid, can we at least agree
people need food and housing,and can we put?
some impact there.
Can we help with education?
So that we are training up anew workforce so that we do have

(28:55):
diverse you know folks to hirefrom things like that.
I think it's.
It's an amazing way to continueto create impact in what feels
like a hard time to you.
Know, really do what you needto do to make an impact, so
thank you for the work you'redoing there.
I'm so glad that's thedirection you chose.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, no, and I, and I love it, and I think that,
even when it comes to what youwere speaking of about diversity
and stuff, you know, when we dothings like you know,
scholarship programs ormentorship programs between
communities and organizations orschools, you know, one of my
first things is what work haveyou done as a company or what
can we help you with to makesure that this is a safe
environment for that studentthat you want to bring in?

(29:32):
You know, because, again, Idon't want to just generate the
wheel of like we've got thesescholars and you're like right,
but if they had a bad experience, you know or they were treated
this?
way, then, you know, do we doour job?
And so we have to ask thatquestion beforehand about the
work that's being done, you know, in order to start to bring
some of these young students or,you know, career, second career

(29:53):
people into the workplace.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah, I think it's so important too, and I mean
eventually businesses are goingto catch up because that work
pool that talent that's comingin.
They care about those things.
They're paying attention, andif it doesn't?
Feel like a safe space for them.
They're more than happy toleave.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Yes, yes, yes, they are an outspoken generation
coming up, and so yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah, love it.
All right.
So let's shift back to the booka little bit.
The title is Undiplomatic andit suggests breaking from
conventions.
What aspects of traditionalleadership do you think we need
to leave behind to create moreinclusive spaces?
I mean, that's kind of a nicesegue from our last bit of
conversation.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yes, I think that what we need to leave behind is
that everybody has to come thesame way for it to success.
And that's not just theeducation route that I'm
speaking of, but even like thismentality of you know, I
suffered, or not even suffered,I went through, you know, three

(30:57):
rounds of this, and so you haveto do it too, to get where I get
.
Or you know I had to deal with,you know, like you know, being a
junior associate for five years, so you have to deal with that
too.
So I think that we need toleave behind the fact that, like
you have to, you have to have,like this really rough route,
like for me I think of you know,I don't want you to have it as
hard as I did, like I would like, I would like to leave it
easier for you.
That doesn't mean that, thatdoesn't mean that like you get

(31:19):
off scot-free or like you don'tdo anything, you cut corners,
but it's just like, why shouldyou have to deal with all this?
Like I'm trying to make thiseasier for you.
So there's other battles.
So I think, some of those,those, those not just the
education, but also, like youknow, I walk five miles in the
snow, so you have to do that tooin order to be strong in your
life.
I think I can get stronger theway.
So I think that's one thing Ithink we definitely should leave

(31:42):
behind.
And then I think that we shouldleave behind, like, the systems
of how people get promotionsand people become leaders.
Even I mean, it's archaic, it'snot a lot of times based in
marriage, it's a lot of it'sbased in you've been here for 10
years, you know, but it's justlike right.
But if somebody has been herefor eight years but they're
really good and maybe didn'tmake any, you know like are we?

(32:04):
Can we look at that a littlebit?
So I think that the way we dopromotions into leadership, um,
and then the way we recruit tothe c-suite, I think can
definitely be left behind.
I have big gripes about, justlike you know, we.
I feel like sometimes we don'treally move people up, we just
move people around sometimeslike like we need to move people
up to new perspectives versusmoving just the same people

(32:26):
around.
So those are some things I thinkof when you ask that.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
I love it.
Yeah, I think that's so greatand you're right, like I don't
know why there seems to be thissense of like an initiation.
This isn't the army.
We're not like you know, we'renot getting in and fighting
battles and wars and things likethat?
Hopefully not, but like I don'teven see that among other women
Right.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Where.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
I hate to say it.
This is my call to you.
Know all of our women.
It's interesting togetherdigital.
Our members skew a little older, so 35 is our median age, but
we've got a lot of activemembers that are in their
fifties and even in theirsixties.
Membership because, I havewomen that are like I'm on a
fixed income, I still want tocome to the community.
I want to be a part ofcommunity.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
I was like absolutely .

Speaker 1 (33:09):
And so they get the student rate, cause it's like
you're a student again, but it'sin a whole different way.
But, I've heard women say youknow well, I didn't have anybody
to mentor me or I didn't haveanybody explain all this to me.
I had to get the, I had to workhard to get here, so other
women.
So this is my call to you thatthat's not, that's really not
the way it needs to be, I lovewhat you said.
I was like doing my littlepraise hands, as you were saying

(33:33):
.
I want to make it easier forthe people that are coming up
behind me and I think that'ssuch a great, great mindset.
I think that's a mindset we allneed to share I love it.
All right.
So you've worked at theintersection of public service
and social impact.
How do you see the relationshipbetween corporate
responsibility and equityevolving over the coming years?

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Yeah, you know it's interesting because when I think
about equity and I think aboutto me how simple it should be
that if you have something, theperson next to you should also
have something, and it bogglesme that people argue about that

(34:13):
or have issues with that.
But I think a lot of that'spower dynamics, like rooted, you
know, and just I want to bepowerful and I, you know, a lot
of it's power and ego and manyother things that many women
have experienced, and ego andmany other things that many
women have experienced.
But I do see the fact that, youknow, our empathy is wrapped up
in equity.
Like you know, we should wantsomebody to have food and food

(34:34):
choices right.
We should want somebody to beable to house themselves and
we're not talking about, youknow, the bottom of the barrel
here, like we shouldn't be likewell, you know you have
something, you know you havethis meal and we know it's not
healthy for you, but at leastyou have something you know what
?
I mean.
So I think that I look at itlike corporations have the

(34:56):
assets, whether it's, you know,products, whether it's funds,
whether it's time, whether it'sservices or resources, whatever
it is, to be able to even thatout like right, like we.
We can't ask non-profits tocontinue doing it with the
funding cuts and so many otherthings and then them not making
enough money to even you know alot of them don't make a lot of
money so they're, they have ahigh turnover but I see them

(35:19):
working together.
it's saying that like we just wewe know and believe that you
deserve what we have on ourtables, you deserve the house
that we have, and to make thathappen, we can make that happen.
And I think that if businesseswork together, you know we can
solve it.
You know there shouldn't be ahousing crisis.
There shouldn't be.
You know, a food crisis.

(35:40):
There shouldn't be these things.
There is right and there'speople who are working to.
You know, mitigate that.
But for me, on my end, I'm like, well, I need to figure out the
person that needs to eat righttoday, like right now, like
what's for dinner, like we canwork on the policy, but what's
for dinner?
And I think that corporations,without again getting into
policy and politics, can havereally, really, really, really

(36:04):
important things in that Agreed?

Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, and it is.
It always baffled me as well.
I don't know.
It's one of those things whereit's like just because somebody
else has doesn't mean I haveless.
Yes, it just means thateverybody moves forward.
It's like the economicempowerment or the opportunity
to empower people you know usall economically only just makes
our whole economy stronger.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, it's so weird.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
It's like that's just really how economics works, I
don't know.
It's like why doesn't it makesense, right, and I think that a
lot of us too.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
it's just like I'm happy, like, please, like you
know, I hope that you can getthe same things I have, or even
more, like I think that it is apower thing where I don't have
that in me and I don't know ifit's how I grew up or whatever,
but I don't have it in me tofeel that way, that to feel that
if you have something that I,that you know, that you know,

(36:56):
somehow I'm threatened by yourexistence or your you know, the
fact that you can eat, right, Idon't get it.
But I think that's a classismthing, that we've got to work on
definitely.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, I agree, I would go down a rabbit hole
there too, for sure, if any ofyou guys haven't read the book
cast.
Check that one out.
That's like I'm going to talkabout those social class
dynamics and how it is reallytruly across all, all different
types of societies.
So, yeah, all right.
So many of our members andlisteners are working to create
impact in what feels likeuncertain times.
What are some things thatanchor your approach to creating

(37:28):
meaningful change when you'refacing obstacles?
I know you alluded to a couple,but I wasn't sure if you had any
other good examples.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, no, I think what I would say I mean, in
addition to a couple of things Isaid but I think that, like
hobbies I know this is something, but like remembering you know
who I was as a child and thethings I loved to do back then
um, I think are just soimportant to me because it gets
me in touch with, like the Disha.

(37:55):
Before, you know, I had to startpaying bills, and before, like,
I could digest the news, andbefore social media, it's like,
oh yeah, I remember who I wasbefore, that like this person,
just like to explore.
And I think that getting intouch with that kind of like
takes you back to a moreinnocent time when you weren't
like, we all are influenced bydifferent things every day, all

(38:17):
the time, and so I say that forpeople to really lean into their
hobbies they're not frivolousand you're not wasting time and
all these things You're gettingin touch with who you were
before that and I think thatthat's extremely important.
And I think the other thing, um, which I love, is like getting
enough sleep.
You know, I'm sure, like thewomen listening, probably, who

(38:38):
are especially over 40 like likewe used to be able to stay up.
That's not an option, nope 9,30.
It's just done right or likewe'll be able to like go, you
know, like stay up and thenwe'll be.
We used to be like we're finethe next day.
Now I'm, I'm, it's not, I'm notpleasant, like I need to sleep,
I need to lay down Like I needto.
So I think that that's likereally important and vital, you

(39:01):
know, as we get older, to makesure we take care of our bodies
in that way.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yeah, I agree.
Actually, that's our book forApril.
So, members, if you'relistening, you still got about
10 days before we do our nextbook discussion.
We're talking about.
Sacred rest is this month'sbook and theme.
So, yeah, and there's even aquiz you can take to learn about
what kind of rest you need,because there's obviously
different forms beyond justsleep.
But to be aware of that and Ilove what what you said, it made

(39:26):
me think about what I'm alwaystelling myself.
It's like how, in a moment whenI'm feeling stressed, I'm like
how would I, how would I makeeight-year-old Amy happy?
right, now, yes, is it gonna goand get ice cream?
Is it gonna go for a walk inthe woods?
Is it gonna be sitting down andcoloring like yeah that's kind
of how I ended up finding, likemy way back to my hobbies and
things that I enjoyed was likeexactly what you said, Deesha.

(39:47):
It was just I thought back to atime and an age when social
conditioning had not got a holdof me yet.
And I just liked what I liked,and so that's, that's a good way
to kind of a good measure toget back to and figure out what
it is that you love doing,before the world really
interfered.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, a hundred percent, and it's like the
saying goes with that 100%.
And it's like the saying goeswith that and I say hear that
saying and be like.
What does that even mean?
But now it makes so much sense,right exactly.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
All right, we've got a couple questions left that
life listeners.
Don't be shy.
You're more than welcome todrop questions into the chat if
you have them.
We'd love to hear from you ifyou have any questions for Disha
.
Looking at your career journey,disha, what is a one commonly
held belief about professionaladvancement that you've
completely changed your mindabout?

Speaker 2 (40:31):
I think what I would say to this is I think I changed
my mind that everybody else issmarter than me and that's why
they've gotten farther than mein different ways.
I think I've definitely changedmy mind about that, because now
I know that's not true.
Like I believe that there aredefinitely people smarter than
me 100%, and that's fine.

(40:53):
I think that a lot of it'sopportunity and a lot of it's
chance and a lot of it'sconfidence about going for
something.
So I would say that one of mythe biggest thing that I think
is that everyone else is smarterthan me and that's why they've
all moved up or that's whythey're in the position that
they are.
But a lot of times it's reallylike opportunity and who you
know exactly.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Oh, that's why I'm writing and talking a lot about
the networking gap because Ithink it is.
it's a deficit for women in thesense that, you know, networking
is not necessarily, you know,wasn't built with women in mind.
It's a bit archaic in the waysin which we do it.
It doesn't encourage you tooften be authentic.
It was really funny.
I was actually at a universitydoing a talk to the PRSSA, so

(41:35):
public relations student group,and I gave them one tip and we
were talking a bit about how doyou start conversation when you
feel anxious and nervous, andthe gal, one of my friends, who
was speaking with me, talkedabout how, you know, she loves
to compliment people on whatthey're wearing, but as I looked
out at the audience like I'lleven all these kids right,

(41:55):
college kids, blue and white andblack, and it was the color
palette.
I wore this subconsciously I wasat OSU, by the way big old red
dress.
I didn't even think about it.
I got there I was like why do Ido these things?

Speaker 2 (42:07):
and I really do.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
I'll sometimes like one time I showed up to present
a deck for somebody as an emceeand I literally the shirt I
picked out matched the deck.
It just is that stuck in mymind.
And I saw the shirt while I wasout.
I was like I love that shirt,I'm buying that for that event.
And then I show up.
They're like Amy, do yourealize, your shirt matches the
presentation, but for me right.

(42:29):
So this is my tip.
There is like I like.
By the way, I'm not sure ifit's a dress or like a blouse,
but I love your top.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
It's gorgeous, I love it.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
And so, like for me, when I go out, you know, I
honestly try to stick out alittle bit you know, by with
some wearing something, to givepeople the opportunity to strike
up conversation and commentabout something I'm wearing,
because those are the people Ifind too, and she was like my
friend Bridget was like I neverthought about that, but yeah,
networking as a whole and youknow, really, I mean there's so

(42:58):
many, so many guys out there onthe golf course right now
shaking hands, making deals thatyou know are making them
billions of dollars.
It's like how do we shift thatdynamic to where we make
networking more accessible andequitable for all?
So that we all can be in thepresence of opportunity Because,
like both you and I, again,we're, you know, offered those
opportunities.
And I do agree too that, like Ithink, that sense of us as

(43:21):
women having to feel like we'renever smart enough I mean, I
love my ladies year are togetherdigital group.
They're here because they areconstant learners.
And I think that's good.
I think it's a part of who theyare, but I also do think a part
of it is what you're saying.
It's like we never.
How many certifications can Iget?
How?

Speaker 2 (43:36):
many degrees can I?

Speaker 1 (43:37):
get Like, because what is it going to take for me
to kind of move up?
And again in the research formy book on the networking gap.
Education does not close thepay gap.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Unfortunately, ladies .
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Yeah, it's unfortunate, not to say you
should ever stop learning youtoo, but at the same time.
You know it's really notgetting us further faster.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah, and I will say that I don't know if you
remember but there like a coupleyears ago, I think, when I was
at the White House.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
There was this whole thing around women should learn
how to golf you know, because,oh yeah, I flipped some tables
over that, so it was just likeOK, like Conform.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
Now I have to like spend money.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Uh-huh, like I was just like no, I don't, I'm not
going to do that, but I got thatadvice often.
Yeah, like you should learn howto golf.
Right advice, often Like youshould learn how to golf Right,
and it's so inaccessible from afinancial standpoint, from like
an ability standpoint, you knowthere's so many reasons why it
might not.
Not that I have anythingagainst golf, don't get me wrong
.
I like it, I don't mind it, Iplay it with family for fun, but

(44:37):
yeah, it is kind of the.
I remember reading that articleand it's cited in my book and
I'm like are you kidding me?
You're like women just conformand do what the men are doing
and that way that's how you moveup.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
It's like yeah, is that the way it should be,
though?
Yeah, exactly yeah.
That's why we're here, right?

Speaker 1 (44:55):
We're doing right, right.
One more question before we gointo the power around, which are
fun, fast questions for thosein our community who feel that
they're on a non-traditionalpath, which actually in digital
and marketing, is very common.
What advice do you give aboutleveraging their unique
perspective and leadershipstrengths?

Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yeah, the first thing I would say is like believe in
yourself and your ability andyour work.
Like, I feel like you couldtake as many classes as you want
, you could do as manynetworking events as you want,
you can build the most amazingportfolio, but if you don't
believe in the product you'restanding behind or the person

(45:34):
that you see in the mirror, youcan't keep up the facade for
long, like before somebody isgoing to notice or you're going
to crack right.
So I would say to believe inyour abilities and believe in
your talent, even if it doesn'tlook like somebody else's.
Which leads me to the secondone of comparing.
Like I get it, like I get it.

(45:56):
I compare myself to people.
Still, my book came out and Iwas like am I going to sell as
much as this person?
Am I going to hit this list?
I completely understand that,but what I would say is remember
that you are one of one.
So your perspective, yourtalent, all of those things
nobody else is going to bring,which means that your path is
going to look different tosomeone else's and I know we all

(46:19):
hear it, but I'm going toreiterate that you don't know
what people have.
Going on, I look at thebestseller list and I found out
like people were able to buythousands of their books or
whatever.
And I'm like, oh my goodness,why didn't I, you know?
But I'm like, but I needed thatmoney.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Like I couldn't.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
I couldn't do that.
I needed that money for otherthings, right?
So watch a comparing because,especially with social media and
everything nowadays, likethings look way easier than what
they are, um, and also justknow that like your life doesn't
have to be supersized like forreal, for real like you know,
like I'm starting to learn thatI love the simple things as we

(46:57):
talked about earlier.
You know, going for a walk inthe woods, just listening to
some music, like going andsitting by myself and journaling
at a coffee shop, like that'sokay, like we don't have to have
a curated life, like it's aboutbeing healthy, being happy and
believing that you know thatyou're one of one and that you
are, you know you're worthy ofeverything that comes to you.

(47:19):
And then don't, don't be afraidof no's.
Y'all Like I know it's hard.
I hate hearing no.
It's so devastating to me whensomebody's like no, thank you,
and I'm like what?
Or like you know you're reallygreat but.
And I'm like but wait a minute,I work for Barack Obama.
Why, right, you know.
But I have to take it on thechin like everybody else and say
, okay, that was just acircumstance, it's no indication

(47:41):
of my value or worth.
I just didn't, I just didn'tget it.
So know the difference in thattoo, that it says sometimes it's
just circumstance, it's not you.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, exactly, I think.
Yeah, that's great advice forour job seekers out there right
now too.
I hear that a lot.
Like you even said somethingearlier like is that job posting
even real, because there are alot of people fishing out there
for like to build their benchbut not actually hiring?
Is that, when you know being onthe opposite side and looking
for and hiring talent?
I mean I can tell you like weare a small business, we have

(48:09):
like three, four people with usat any given time and you know
we post up a job and I got like700 resumes in two days.
I had to turn the job postingoff because I couldn't.
I'm like, how am I going to gothrough all these?
How?

Speaker 2 (48:21):
am I going to?

Speaker 1 (48:22):
respond to each of these individuals.
So you know.
Whether it's a small company,big company, you kind of never
know.
And I know on the recruitingside people are cutting down on
that on the staff there, so itmight be one person getting
thousands you know, so reallyjust know that yeah, there's not
always you.
It could be definitely a themthing, and I wholeheartedly
agree with you too.

(48:42):
One of my common phrases is youknow, companion, and it's, it's
.
It's out there in the world too.
Somebody else can take creditfor it, cause I don't know who
said it first.
But comparison is the thief ofjoy, you know, it's just, it
keeps.
It can be such a a vacuum foryour emotions, and if you find
yourself getting jealous orenvious.
Another thing I like to remindmyself is that envy is something

(49:05):
you should actually payattention to, because it's
showing you what you want.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Maybe the things that you're denying yourself and not
recognizing for yourself, evenif it's kind of vain or kind of
like whatever.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
It's telling you that there's something out there
that you want and you need tofigure out how to get it for
yourself yeah, and you'reallowed to like, you're allowed
to want more too.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Like you're allowed to want more, you're allowed to
splurge on, you're allowed to dothese things and I think that
we just think that we have tostay in a neat, tidy box until
somebody unwraps it and lets usout you know now.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Don't wait for permission, ladies, no, or?
Guys if you're listening andyou need to hear it yeah, that's
my next book too.
I keep joking is unambitious.
I think our generationespecially has been conditioned
to be like we're just workworkaholics.
Man, you know, let's get thedegree, get the house, get the
family all of this.
And then it's like what, why amI doing all this?
And we're all having thesequarter midlife crisis induced

(49:58):
by, like the world and societyin general as well, and it's
it's I think it has a lot to dowith the fact that we are
constantly striving, and it'salways about how do I do better,
better, better, better, better,instead of just being.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
I'm going off of the on.
I just realized that you'reundiplomatic.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
All right, let's see.
Oh, that was our last questionthere in our chats Quiet, so I'm
going to move into the powerrounds question.
So what is a one leadershipquality that you wish was taught
in every classroom?

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Feedback.
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
That's a good one.
That is a fantastic one.
Yeah, that's a tough one, butyeah, fantastic.
Most unexpected object in youroffice that inspires your work.
Most unexpected object in youroffice that inspires your work.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
I know you're not in your office right now because
you're trying.
No, no, but I, but I, there'san answer to this.
I would say there's a poster ofthe Philadelphia sports teams.
Nice, I love it.
Yeah, I would say that that'sgreat and that aligns.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
That's very authentically, you, deesha.
Yes, yes, very much so verymuch so and, on that note, we're
going to infuse two of yourpassions authentic leadership
and jazz, because I wanted youto finish the sentence or you
could say R&B.
Authentic leadership is likejazz, because it's unpredictable
and ever-evolving.
Yeah, I kind of like jazz too,because it's like you got that

(51:25):
whole.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Yeah, yeah ever evolving, and I think about like
the jazz of like the 30s, 20sand 30s and the jazz of today,
like it's ever evolving.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
I love it.
That's a fantastic answer.
What is the first thing you dowhen imposter syndrome tries to
creep back in?
I?

Speaker 2 (51:43):
meditate, love it um or pray if people believe in
that.
But I would say meditate orpray.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
That's so great, awesome.
All right, disha, that was it.
You flew through those Greatjob.
Thank you so much for joiningus, thank you for having me.
Yes, absolutely.
All of your insights onnon-traditional leadership paths
and creating authentic impactare so valuable for communities
like ours, so I appreciate youbeing here with us again and for

(52:10):
our amazing listeners.
They're dropping in and sayingthis was awesome, so thank you,
Thank you.
Ellen for listening in Foreveryone watching.
Remember that the Power Launchrecordings are available to
everyone free after the event.
You can check us out on YouTube.
You can also basically followand subscribe any place that you
listen to your podcasts.
And if you're not a TogetherDigital member yet, I invite you
to join our community ofamazing, smart, talented and

(52:33):
very generous women in digitalwho are always looking to share
their knowledge, power andconnections.
Again, togetherindigitalcom, ifyou want to check that out and
learn more about our amazingmembership benefits.
Outside of just really findingyour professional soulmates that
just really transition.
Any and every job yeah, I'mlike every, every stage of life.
Check it out, girlfriend.
We've got.

(52:54):
Yeah, I'll send you the details.
Missy Pamela, oh, we're gettingall kinds of love in the chat,
so I want to make sure you seethat before we hop off here.
Adisha, all right, thank youall again for listening.
We hope to see you all nextweek on the Power Lounge.
Until then, everyone keepasking, keep giving and keep
growing.
We'll see you next week.
Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye,bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye,

(53:17):
bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye,bye.