March 17, 2025 • 53 mins
T Lo take a look at the career of Donatella Versace upon the announcement of her retirement as creative director of the House of Versace, discuss Scarlett Johansson's recent comments about fame, and dive deep into the latest episodes of "The White Lotus" and "Severance."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
We're Tom Lorenzo.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
And this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest. Hello kitt Is,
Welcome back to another edition of the p s O.
I am the Tea and you're te Low Tom Fitzgerald,
and I'm here with the Low and your t lot Lorenzo,
my cousin, my lovely husband. It is Saint Patrick's stay,
I know, exciting and the Fitzgerald.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Anywhere in your US Guinness shirt, Guiness T shirtlan.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Soda bread in the oven. And you know, we're just
doing our thing. I'm not doing every year brownless time.
I usually make a Guinness steal and I didn't deal
it this year because number one, your vegetarian. Number two,
for various reasons, we've been eating a lot of ritz
food lately. And number three, the last time I looked
(01:06):
at stew meat, my god, it was insanely expensive. So
I was like, you know what, it's just not worth
it for me.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I know, potatoes for you.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
No, I'm not even like I'm kind of on a
cleanse right now. I'm just doing soup for the next
vegetable soup for the next couple of days. We just
had a lot of a lot of junkie food. There
was a funeral a couple of weeks ago, and that's always.
It was an Italian funeral, so far.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Forgot to buy Irish potatoes.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
People don't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Google it, google it.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Irish potatoes are a Philadelphia candy made out of cream,
cheese and confection of sugar and coconut that has rolled
into little balls and then those little balls are rolled
in cinnamon and they're dentating, given little irregular shapes and
they look like tiny little potatoes and they are a
Philadelphia delicacy.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
They are amazing. I buy them every year and I
forgot to buy them. Let's seeing. But yeah, I was
just looking at my picture, our picture pictures Island pictures.
Of course, you know, we had such a wonderful time
we did.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
We went to Ireland in November and that was for
a wedding.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
And a beautiful castle and anyway, I was just looking
at the pictures and we we had a wonderful time
and I can't say, you know how friendly and nice
people were there, Just very very nice people. Anyway, So yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Happy Saint Patrick's David. Everyone Irish or not Irish or
honorary Irish, as we say, we have much to discuss,
a little bit of fashion, a little bit of pop culture,
and a little bit of television. So we're really like
living up to that Pop Style Opinion best name. We
are in the back half of this podcast going to
(02:46):
run through the latest two episodes of Severance or the
latest episodes of Severance and the White Lotus, and Lorenzo
actually has a little TikTok story to get to which
we're not.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, But before we do any of that, I wanted
to do just a few minutes on Donna Tella Bversace
because shocking it was a noow, I don't know how
shocking it is. She's almost seventy. It was announced that
she would be stepping down as the creative director of
Brasace after twenty eight years I believe. Yeah, ninety seven
(03:20):
was when Gianni was killed.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You remember that, I do, because I remember exactly where
I lived. I was living with a roommate at the
time I was dating you.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah. Anyway, so I just thought, you know, we don't
talk about fashion all that much on this Pop Style
Opinion for or not as much as I would like.
And she is a pop culture figure, which is kind
of what I wanted to do here was talk about,
but just give a little tribute to our Donna Tella
after twenty eight years. I'll talk to you in a minute.
(03:53):
For me, I think it's worth noting that she, I mean,
the Versace House of VERSACEI was always a family business.
It was her and Johnny, and there's another brother involved
as well. And you know, she was always involved in
the business aspect of it and tangentially apparently tangentially involved
in the creative aspect of it because she was literally
(04:15):
Rihanni's muse. It's very cool.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
They were very close.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, and it's very clear when you look at the
the Versace aesthetic of the nineties, like Donna Tella was
all over that. She was inspiring that completely. I think
she's an interesting figure in the in the world of
fashion because you know, very few people took over a
house because the house, you know, the person who established
(04:41):
the house was killed and not just that, but was
her brother. And I think there was at you know,
there was an unusual level of emotional resonance in her
rising to the top of this company. I mean, she
was already at the top of it. It's not like
she was a secretary or something before he died. And
(05:01):
for me, I think it's interesting because I've been following
fashion long enough to know that nobody really believed she
was going to manage it, right, I mean, do you
agree with me back then that you know nobody thought
she was going to be able to take over that company?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Now I watched if you if you watch there, there's
a great I feel like fashion. There's a great documentary.
You can find it on tube. I think that's the
only place you can find called Catwalk. It's a great
documentary about fashion week in Europe with the amazing Christine
Christy Turleton model anyway, so it's a great documentary and
(05:38):
it shows a lot of versacea the show and all
the supermodels and all that, and it shows her with
him do not Tell vers with her brother, and you
can see the relationship they had, like and she's very shy.
If you watch the documentary, she's very shy throughout the
entire thing, like listening to him and doing everything he's
telling her to do, telling her yeah, just just you know.
(06:00):
It's so it's surprising. I mean, I guess she had
no choice.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I think that's admirable.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
How yes sapped up that when he died, nobody believed
her that she could, you know, believed in her that
she could uh take over right and continue with the
with the amazing brand. I mean, whether you like it
or not, if you think it's techy or whatever, that's
that's a I think a lot.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Of the whole different story feel that Versace the brand
lost something and that it never got that right. And
that's fair. I mean, that's fair. He's the founder. He
established that aesthetic. I don't think any person I mean,
you know, I know she was a Nazi and everything,
but Chanell lost something when Coco stepped down there the
people found Yeah, that's just it. There's it's a singular
(06:42):
vision up until that point, and then it stops being
that person's vision.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I was crushed when you you you know, she stepped down.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, there's a lot of people stepping down right now.
Not many founders, many founders.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I mean mutual product because it was so pacific her work, right,
and then when you invite other people to take over
as the creative director of a brand, they bring their
own DNA no matter what. Yeah, I mean, look at
what happened with the Gucci and now what's happening with Valentino.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Or Caroline Herrera.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yes, I mean they just change. I mean Oscar Dolente.
It's a completely different brand.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
And Donna Karen got ran into the ground after she
stepped down.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So and Versace say what you want about VERSACEI but
Versace has caused a lot of conversation and it stirred
a lot of things like I don't know if you
remember the very famous before even Jennifer Lopez, I believe
the famous black Versace dress that Elizabeth Harley.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
That was when Gioannny was alive. Yeah, that's a safety
pin dress.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Everyone nobody knew who she was, and all of a sudden,
she was like who is this woman? And he was,
you know, this incredible dress that she wore. And then
Jennifer lopis later.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
But that was Donna Talla, right, Yeah, focusing on Donna Tella,
I think it's interesting, Uh we think about these things
like the safety pin dress and how how Johnny made
fashion or he was one of the people who made
fashion into a pop culture you know happening. And my
(08:13):
point is that I feel like Donna Tella took that
and ran with it to a level he never even
accomplished in his lifestyle. I know it's not fair to
make these comparisons because of course his work was cut short.
And I do believe that he was the greater designer,
There's no question of that. And also I'm not naive.
I really don't think Donna Tella was painting things to
(08:33):
dress forms and sketching things by hand. She was a
creative director. She walked through and said yes or no
to the decisions that other people were made.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Most most of them do it.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
That's what most of them do at a certain level. Anyway.
It's not like Michael Core's is painting things up. No,
or Mark Jacobs or Tom Brown, any.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Of them, My god, please. Yeah, the time when you
know calll was like sketching things, you know, at the last.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Thirty years in the past.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
That doesn't happen anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, So what we're talking about is is not so
much her skill as a designer, because I don't think
anyone really knows how much she was involved in any
of that. It's basically her skill as a figurehead as
a leader of the company. She and one of the
things that I think is interesting. Of course, Gianni was
known for his use of supermodels, and he was known
(09:26):
for the uh, you know, the safety pin dress. So
I'm not taking anything away from his ability to create
these women's wear moments that were, you know, like lightning bolts. However,
when I think of nineties Versace, I think of that
as such a gay male aesthetic. It defined the gay
male socialistetic.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
In the nineties.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Every guy was out on the dance floor ripping off
their imitation Versace shirts. Yeah it's not their real ones.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
That was the look.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
That silk shirt with that black and gold versages. God, yes,
every homo had that shirt. And when it's not that
he wasn't you know, he was known for women's Princess
Diana was one of his biggest clients when she died.
But I feel like she really turned it into a
woman's company. She turned it into a company that had
a woman's point of view at its head, and she
(10:16):
so many celebrity women are just in awe and in
love with Donna, Tella and Hathaway, Lady Gaga. They just
adore her, And I don't think Gianni was ever going
to be capable of that kind of image. I think
it's interesting how it went from this gay male company
to this very woman centered company.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I think it's fantastic. Uh, it's a fantastic combination. Also,
she adore entertainment, the entertainment industry she did. She adored
actors and musicians and everybody, and it was the perfect match.
It was because she dressed so many people and so
many people loved her fashion. I think it's fantastic. It's
same thing in a way with Dosha Gabana in a way.
(10:57):
I mean, it's a fantastic brand.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
It's perfect for celebrities, perfect for.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Brand for celebrity. It's a shame that they're terrible people.
They're terrible people. It looks it feels like they have
learned something because they've been very quiet after what happened.
But still, but it is one of those brands you know,
like do Chigaban and Versace, that it's still family. It's
still representing a very specific part of the world, you know, Italy,
(11:25):
very Italian. Just fantastic.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
So I feel like with Donna tell Is stepping down,
I do feel like fashion is losing something. First out,
there are not many superstar female designers heading houses. They're
just aren't it. We're moving into exees me into a
very male oriented fashion period, which is a damn shame,
and I'm not sure we're likely to see the creative
(11:53):
director as celebrity reached that same level. I mean, the
last one was probably Carl Lagerfeld. I would think that
Dona Talla was a bigger celebrity than even carllographer. I mean,
Lady Goga wrote a song.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
The thing is that I'm gonna be very honest about
fashion here.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I think I wish there was as if you haven't
been I know now he's been holding his cards close
to his I wish there.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Was the perfect combo between queer people and and straight
women in fashion, because I feel like some women, uh designers,
they just don't have Oh honey, what no listen, no
let me. I'm just saying some some are very interesting.
Some understand that they're designing for women, but sometimes the
(12:37):
creative the creativity is not up there as with some
queer man. But at the same time, I feel that
some queer designers are just way I don't understand what
they don't understand what women want right, they're designing for
themselves in a way. So I wish there was a
perfect combo of these two.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Where Donna Talla and were working by side.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
It was that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying that
the women don't know how to design for room with
this now what I said. What I'm saying is that
sometimes I feel like they're a little too safe in
a way, and then I wish they had a little
more spice. But at the same time, I feel like
the queer designers have too much spice. They're too much
and and it's sometimes I don't feel like women want
(13:21):
to wear that.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Right. Well, Donna Tella had that spice. I think definitely.
I think the fashional world was losing something when she said.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Actually we actually uh, I wouldn't see met her, but
we saw her in person, yes, And I.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Was wondering if we were going to tell that story.
This was a long, long, long, long long time ago
in our very early in our blocking careers. In fact,
I'm pretty sure it was before we were professional, before
we were professional. It was the age of you know,
it was the oughts, and a lot of fashion houses
were really reaching out to bloggers because we were like
(14:01):
this a freaking big deal at the time, bloggers, And
it seems crazy now, it seems both of these facts
seemed crazy. Dulching Obana once gifted us with wallets.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Remember that Mark, the Mark Schaikas people invited us to
a specific event, and uh, and and the Donna Tella people,
the Varsace people invited.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It right we were we Mark Jacobs people invited us
to do the Out Magazine party, to go to the
Out Magazine party, and Donna Tella's or the Versace people
invited us to go to the Whitney gala, the Whitney
Museum gun which at the time, I don't think it
really is anymore. It was a really star stud at gala,
not at the level of the met gala. It's not
(14:41):
It wasn't that formal. It wasn't that dressy at all.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
And the uh do Chagabana people, Uh, they loved what
we did at the time, and they sent us a
wallet with with with Toma Lorenzo. Yeah, and I on it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
This was all before we were pro and I wouldn't
really accepted that stuff now. And actually that Whitney a
gala thing that we went to, it was the last
time we did anything like that because we both were like,
you know what, this is not where I want to
it's not what I want to be because you're I
just tell a story. We saw a Starlett who was
(15:18):
famous for having substance abuse problems. We saw her air
kissing Donatella actually, but then we saw her stumble out
into the street with some guy, and it was I
was like, yeah, I don't think I want to see this.
I just I'm not I'm not I'm not Perez Hilton.
I'm not someone who wants to hang out with these people.
(15:38):
I will say that this Starlett is doing well now,
so that's all I'll say. But at the time, and
I've told the story before, which I've named her in
the past, but I don't feel like it's right now. Anyway,
it was, yeah, we saw her air kissing Dona Tella.
We saw Dona Tella sitting just a pet pet and
you you were like, oh my god, well yeah, because
well because we were starfuckers at the time. This was
(15:59):
fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
And also it was a moment. I remember all the
news talking about these two meeting oh and getting photographed
and I and we were right there next to them.
That's you know, that's the whole thing. And it's interesting
because you're there, you're sort of pared of the moment
and you see how things are played out.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
I mean, we got to see a lot of celebrities
in a room where there weren't many non celebrities, so
they were kind of relaxed around each other. And that
the biggest reason why I never wanted to go back
to that is, Well, first off, I've never been big
on running up to celebrities and telling them. I just
don't do that right. And this is going to move
into our next conversation about your TikTok thing about running
(16:42):
up to celebrities and bothering them. And I have also
never never You might find this hard to believe. I've
never wanted to be friends with celebrity or anything like that.
I never wanted to be invited to their parties or
anything like that. Someone said that about us about the
Vanity Fair Oscar party YouTube would kill the go and
I'm like, no, no, I would not. I would not
(17:05):
kill to go to that party because you know what,
I wouldn't know anyone, so I'd be like in a
freaking corner, feeling under dressed.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
We went to a we went to a Donna Karen
party and there were a lot of celebrities there.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
But that was in just there were a lot of
passions now.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
But my point is that it feels a little uh,
I don't know, it feels a little weird to be
in environment like that because I don't know, uh, you know,
you're not really part of it. But at the same time,
you feel like you don't want to. I don't know,
ask Kis Tima, I don't know. I just it's it's
a weird situation. I don't mind. When we attended a
(17:40):
ton of fashion shows and we were sitting next to
celebrities because you're there to talk about the show, talk
about the fashions and the runway show, so sitting next
to them, he didn't bother me much. But sometimes you
feel like, all right, I'm not part of this.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
So yeah, all right, that is all of our fashion talk.
Child Anna Tala, you did a wonderful job. And we'll
take a short break care and we'll be right back.
We're back, and Lorenzo has a TikTok tale that he
wants to tell you.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Lorenzo go, it's just funny thing that happened, because it
was all over TikTok and some publications. We're talking about
it is that Scarlott. Johansson gave an interview she had
a whole thing for we posted on our site for
Insig magazine. She was in cover of the magazine and
she gave an interview about talking about a lot of things,
but one of the things she discussed was that she
(18:30):
doesn't like to be photographed with fans. She doesn't like
to take photos with fans. And it was funny because
she kept saying it really fans a lot of people
when I say that that I don't like to have
my picture taken with fans. In her quote, I thought
it was hysterical actually, because she says, I to I
don't want to be identified as being in this time
and place with you. I'm doing my own thing, And
(18:51):
I thought it was funny. I'm actually going to use
that line when people ask me to invite me to something.
I'm just going to say, I don't want to be
identified as being this time and place with you. I
just thought it was a funny way to put it.
But you know, I don't disagree with her. The whole
thing with taking pictures with celebrities. I never understood. Like
(19:13):
I said, and Tom said, we attended. We have attended
a ton of events with a bunch of celebrities, like
fashion Week, we sat next to them and behind them
or something, and I never felt the need to take
pictures with them or have my picture taken or whatever
asked to have a selfie, because that's the thing people do.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Know.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I don't know, it's just not my thing. I always
feel like I'm just, i know, taking their time, you know,
in a way. I don't know how you feel about it,
but that's how.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I Yeah, I felt the same way. And you thought
it was kind of funny, but I thought she was
being perfectly reasonable. I thought it was a reasonable quote.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, well, the thing And when when celebrities say stuff
like that that they didn't want to have their picture
taken immediately, people always feel like, you know, but you
why are your celebrity? Then? You know, why are you?
Why do you do what you do? If you know
the fans are going to ask for a picture. I
can understand that. I can understand situations where I don't know,
I'm not famous. We're not famous, but we've been in
(20:12):
you know, we have experienced situations where we were actually
in Europe and people recognize us and and and came
up to us and said hi, And usually this is
what I do. And I wish celebrities would do that
more often, But I guess it's me happening once in
a lifetime, once once a year, and then and happened
(20:32):
to them like every five seconds. I usually come up
to the person. I say, do you want Do you
want a picture? Can I? Or you? Or even I?
Sometimes I say can I have your picture? Can I
have can I take a picture with you? Just to
make things easy for them, uh, and less uncomfortable for everybody.
But I guess celebrities have to deal with that all
the time, so they can't say that all the time,
you know, to everybody they see or me, do you
(20:54):
want a picture? You know? Uh, you know, go ahead
and volunteer to have the picture taken, as opposed to
wait until they ask for it. But I don't know.
I just feel it's it's a tough situation because I
understand as a fan, you're a fan of that person,
and and then you know, you get crushed no matter what.
If you know, if you want to have your picture
(21:16):
taken with that person and that person turns you down.
I understand that you feel uncomfortable with the whole thing.
So so, But at the same time, celebrities have to
deal with that all the time, and I do feel
like sometimes celebrities are just want to They just want
to have their time, you know, with their family or
or doing whatever they're doing and not be bothered by fans.
(21:38):
So anyway, I just thought it was funny the way
she phrased it right, that she doesn't want to be
identified as being in this time and place with you,
which is funny way to stay.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I agree with her. I'm with her on that one. Anyway.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Is that it yeah, yeah, yeah, just because everyone was
talking about it. And of course when when a celebrity
says something like that, you know, people are kind of
divided and they always defend and the celebrity or they
they say, you know, oh, but you were an actor,
you know, you know, you shouldn't be famous if you
don't want to have your picture taking blah blah blah
type of thing.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Before we take a break, because we're gonna come back
and we're going to talk about the White Lotus and
severans and that's going to be a spoiler filled conversation.
You wanted to make a recommendation for another Netflix.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yes, everyone is talking about. I actually had seen the
screeners and and I was like, well, this is gonna
be good. It's it's a show called adolescence on Netflix.
It's actually a very interesting show. It's about a kid
being accused of killing his classmate. So is the whole
(22:44):
story about him getting arrested and dealing with the family
and and he's a kid in prison. And it's a
very interesting show. Uh, it's hard to watch. It took
me a while to finish the first episode because I
kept stopping it. Also, I don't know if I can
watch this. It's tough because it's a kid. But it's
(23:05):
really really good.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Everyone is talking about how great the kid is. It's
his first job acting, but he does a phenomenal job,
and it deals with everything like being bullied at you know,
as school and social media and uh, you know, all
the all the issues that a kid go through these days,
(23:28):
and not excusing anyone for killing anyone if in fact
you did. I don't want to give any spoiler here,
but the whole thing how you raise kids these days,
and with social media and all that, the pressure to
act a certain way as a boy, as a little boy,
you know, Uh, so it's it's it's an interesting show.
It's a very interesting show, and I highly recommend it.
(23:51):
It will be tough to watch for some people, but
if you can, you know, handle the material, I highly
recommend it. So it's called Adolescents Netflix Excellent.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
All right, we'll be right back. We're going to take
a short break and then we're going to dive into
those two episodes, those episodes of the White Lotus and Severance.
We'll be right back. We're back now. We're going to
dive into Severance, which this is the penultimate episode of
season two, which we'll be leading into the finale next week,
which is supposedly seventy six minutes long. And when the
(24:27):
finale for the first season aired, I think it was
what was at twenty twenty two, I said it was
the best season finale in like ten years we had
seen in like ten years, And so for me, the
show has a lot to live up to in next
week's finale. This episode, I it's really interesting to me
(24:47):
to read online reactions to Severance, because there was a
certain level of fandom for the show that has a
completely opposite reaction to everything that I am more and
more and more and more, actually, more and more, I
think they're wrong. There's a certain segment of viewers that
thinks this is all about figuring out puzzles and getting answers,
(25:09):
and if they don't get answers in a timely manner,
or they don't get the answer that they wanted to get,
they start getting complaining about it. These last two episodes.
Last week was the Gemma specific episode and this week,
oh no, I'm sorry. Last week was Miss Cobel's episode,
the week before that was Gemma, And I think people
(25:30):
are getting very frustrated because the show is taking time
to fill in things, to tell backstories, to tell you
what's going on, what led to all of the what's
happening right now? You said something, We're going to run
through the entire episode. You said something before we flipped
on the mics, and you said, your biggest problem with
this show is that you have a hard time caring
(25:50):
about any of the characters.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Well, that's my I keep watching every episode as I'm
watching them with you, and I keep watching them and everything.
All I can think while I'm watching is like, I
don't care for any of these people. I'm watching a
beautiful show. I'm watching a great show to a certain extent.
Beautiful cinematography's gorges, the music is excellent, very contemporary take
(26:16):
on a show. But at the same time, I don't
care about any of these people, and that's a flaw.
I think that I really don't care about any one
of them.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I cannot say that I agree with you on this.
I thought, for instance, in this episode. Now I'll say this,
up until a certain point on this show, I agree
with you. It's been a little too cold, a little
too not giving us. And I complained about that earlier
in the season, where I felt like the show was
(26:45):
so up its own ass wanting to have all these
weird moments that it wasn't giving you human moments. And
I feel like this episode was actually the one where
everyone was acting like a human being. I thought Bert
and Irvings goodbye scene was heartbreaking. I thought it was
beautifully acted by both actors, and it made me care
for both of those men. I thought Gretchen breaking up
(27:09):
with her any husband was also really really sad, and
I thought both of them, Merrit wait Weaver and Zach
Terry just acted the hell out of that scene. It
was absolutely heartbreaking to watch and to me, that is
when the show is interesting. I don't give a shit
about the goats. I don't give a shit about the numbers,
(27:30):
and frankly, I know it's important, but I don't give
a shit about Cold Harbor. I know it is important,
but as long as I'm getting human stories, I don't
really give a shit about all of these mysteries and
puzzles that people want to have answered. I do.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I feel like I'm watching great actors performing beautifully with
a material that is just verything.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
That's scene with Burton Irving was touching.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yes, yes, but it's like but it's like moments.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Well that I'll get there's not a lot of flow.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Right exactly, and.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
It's all still issues with pacing. I mean, Mark started
reintegrating like five episodes ago, and we're still not getting answers.
And not only that, but I feel like they're walking
back into grat I mean, the whole point of integration
was that we were going to they were going to
literally that's why it's called integration, integrate that the any
(28:25):
and the abbey, so that they would become one personality.
But that has not happened.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
No.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
In fact, this whole episode was about them going to
tremendous lengths to try and get in touch with marx Any,
And I was like, well, what isn't marks Any already integrated?
He's had brain surgery at this point, What was the
point of that? Did that fail? Is he dying? Like
there's a little bit too much of that. I want
(28:50):
to explain a couple of things, because I think the
show isn't great about explaining it, and I did see
some confusion among people. If you're not like following this
shit religiously and like running to Reddit to theorize right it,
you might have missed some things. They Devin, his sister
and Miss Cobell took Mark to a birthing These like
(29:14):
birthing cabins as birthing retreat for women to give birth
and it's a lumin facility. I don't know why Devin
was there. In the first episode, the first two episodes
of the show, she was there. That's where she gave
birth to her baby, and she met a woman who
they got along. They introduced each other, and then she
she met her months later in a park and that
(29:36):
woman did not remember her because and then Devin figured
it out that she had been severed and I had
to remember that. So Miss Cobell and Devin drove Mark
to this place and when they get there, Miss Cobell
says that she has someone she needs a specific cabin
and the woman won't let her in, and the whole
facility is lumen and she says, I have one of James's.
(30:02):
It's no one is to know James Egan or Jame
Egan is Helena's father, that creepy old man. So the
implication there is Jame Egan, like Elon Musk Style, has
sired a lot of children with a lot of different
women who were then sent off to the facility to
give birth and not remember it like it's weird, weird,
(30:23):
weird shit. Anyway, that's what happened there, and the minute
Mark walked in to that cabin, it triggered his any.
I'm only explaining that because someone actually asked me to
explain that I did, and you and you actually to
explain it. And that's what that final scene is, is
him his Any seeing Miss Cobell for the first time
(30:47):
since that party at his sister's house last year. And
there is some parallel parallelism going on there because his
last words at that in that episode, which was the finale,
was she's alive, right, And then when the final words
in this episode were she's alive because mss Coton they
asked him to say, do you remember what you said
(31:07):
the last time you saw her? So we're finally going
to get I don't know what are we going to get?
We already know Jema's alive, so I don't know what
this meeting. They treated it like this big momentous thing,
and I guess getting into some criticisms of the show
this episode in particular, uh so Mark and Devin drive
(31:32):
out into the woods somewhere to meet Miss Kobell and
she shows up and they don't ask her anything of
import They stand around staring at her.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
That's all they do always.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
And I'm sorry, that's just stupid. Don't bring characters together
if you were not ready to have information shared in
the street, can bed Stein, It's like real people would
not be. At one point, Mark did say, what are
we doing here? She's there and we're here, and I
was like, that is the first human thing, yes, I've
(32:06):
heard out of your mouth in a really long time.
And then Miss Cobell says to explain another thing that
happened in that scene that I don't think the show
was very good at explaining. Miss Cobell made him call
mister Miltchick, right. The reason she made him call mister
Miltchick was if mister Miltchik had said, oh, that's fine,
you don't need to come in today, then that means
(32:26):
Cold Harbor was completed and Jemma's dead. Right, That's what
that phone call was for.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
But she doesn't explain it was.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
She doesn't explain any of that. It was to determine
whether Gemma was still alive. Where was I? Oh? So yeah.
They they don't ask her any questions, and then she
tells them we can't go until we go under cover
of night. And then the show goes off and does
other scenes, and then it comes back to them getting
(32:54):
in the truck as the sun is setting, and I'm like,
what the heck? They just stood out in the cold
for hours waiting for the sun to set. That is
not That does not make sense. And it just brought
me right back to that ort bow, the one where
they went out into the cold into that where none
of the staging of that made any sense if you
(33:15):
thought about it. For more than a few seconds. It's like, well,
what they walked irving out into the middle of a lake.
What it's the showcase? And then I did actually laugh
at the final scene where they Mark walks into this
unbelievably satanically ominous room I know, and I'm just like,
it's a birthing cabin. Why would they even have a
(33:38):
room like this in that cabin? It sometimes the need
to be weird to give a visual, and it's sort of.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Overwhelms They walked into the yellowjackets, nice set.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
It just overwhelmed any common sense in the storytelling. And
then it's like, all right, now you're just being stylish,
you know, and it's not really making any sense. However,
I did enjoy this episode because they're there was constant
movement in the plot because and every single person had
a deeply emotional reaction, except for maybe Helena, although she
(34:11):
I loved her scene with mister Milchick where she reminded
him that you know, he may be her boss, but
outside she's his boss. Ultimately, she's saying, there literally is
nothing you can do to me. You can get mad
at me, you can threaten me, there is nothing I'm
an Egan, there is nothing you can do to me.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
I think the only reason why the show is still standing,
you know, in my opinion is because everyone is a
very good actor and they perform really well. But in
terms of material, I think there's so many holes.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I don't think there's holes. I just think there's a
lot of pacing problems. I did like mister Miltchick's scene
with I can't remember the other guy who hates mister Drummond,
who hates him so much, where he told him to
devour feculents and it was a fun scene.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
He is a great actor.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
He's great. I think. If you want to talk theme,
I do think there was an on a pretty clear
theme of this in this episode of abuse, starting at
the top and then trickling its way down. Like you
saw Helena eating her Helena who has a clear eating disorder,
because who the fuck eats their egg like that? And
(35:19):
it's a control issue between her and her father. She
is refusing to allow him to tell her how to
eat an egg, and he's being abusive towards her. And
then you see, like you know, mister Miltchik has been
abused by mister Drummond all season long, and then he
takes it out on poor miss Wong right, who in
that scene was just sad and very very cruel. Actually
(35:41):
it's also again the show starts getting into like this
weird ass ship where he makes her put her toy
on the table and then crush it with the head,
and I was like, what, what the come on?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
That's when the show I mean.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Even nobody eggs like this, even the.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Egg saying it just went too long. I mean, that's
kind of thing that that I can't stand about the
show is it's creating these things so that people can
talk about, but both they don't mean anything. No, they
don't mean anything, but they get over analyzed. I agree,
and everyone is talking about that.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, I think if you think all of this shit
is going to be answered, I'm sorry, it's not going
to be answered in the way you want it to be.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Because the creators think that it looks good and he's
going to get people to talk. They have said that
many many times.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah. For instance, here's something when they were in that
uh train station. I noticed it immediately and then I
saw a lot of chatter about it online. Is that
the train Well, first off, that he bought a train
ticket and it was a little literal ticket that gets
ripped off, one of those things which I haven't seen
that done. I'm not even sure I've ever seen that
(36:46):
done in my life. That's how old that is, right.
And then there's if you look in the background of
that train station, it's like women in dresses and men
in fedoras and over coast or thrievecases and everything. It's
not too too obvious, it's not you could get away
with it being not not period that it's just, oh,
(37:08):
there just happens to be some fairly well dressed people
in here, and that is essentially I think, what's going
on there? But of course, oh my god, there's a
time travel. It's a hologram. They're in a simulation, and
I'm like, no, the creators just really liked seeing people
in old style, and that's it. It's the same thing
with the cars. You know, this isn't set in some
(37:31):
weird time period because everybody has an iPhone. It's they
just think it looks like cool.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Like the damn snow everywhere exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
You can go ahead and knock yourself out, go ahead
and analyze all this stuff. But I don't think any
of it means anything except it looks cool. I'm not
down on the shelve of the way you are. I
actually I think it has improved steadily from what I
thought was a rocky beginning of the season.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
I will give you that, and I agree it getting
better and better.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
But I do think they have jerked around Mark way
too much, Like, let's make this just a little more linear,
let's see the result of his decisions, because he has
been operating on and we still don't have a lot
of answers as to whatever.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
We did get to see him move and speak, so
he's obviously not incapacitated or anything. But I don't know
what was reintegration if Mark is still the same, Like,
what was the point of all of that. You spent
episodes upon episodes on this whole idea and nothing has
changed for Mark. They had to get in touch with
his any whatever.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, h do you.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Have anything else say about that?
Speaker 1 (38:39):
No, it's like I said, I'm watching it because I
think it looks pretty. I think the actors are amazing,
and every now and then there's a scene that you're like, Wow,
these actors are fucking amazing.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I think these last three episodes have been great.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
And that's it. But in terms of like, you know,
if you're gonna die or if you're gonna you know,
see your wife again, you don't give a damn about
any of that anymore.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Oh that's a shame.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I kind of see. I mean, I want to know
where the hell Bird's going, I mean, Irving is going.
I hope he's not written out at this point.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I think I think that, as you said, they could
have explored so much more, like Dylan, the character Dylan,
for example, I think I love him. I think he's
such an amazing character.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I think he's gone now. I know, I'm not hard
to believe.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
No, but I don't think they give him enough. And
his wife is amazing, you know, like everyone is great
given their best. Um like her character what's her name, merritt? Uh,
she's amazing, man Like, she barely speaks and she's like
so powerful, wonderful to watch. But at the same time,
(39:47):
it's like, all right, give her material, give these people
some material.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
The Yeah, I'm not feeling that. I think she did
a beautiful job in that scene where she had a saygodbye.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Well, that's that's the key here. That's the point here.
They do a beautiful job with whatever they get.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
All Right, I believe we have run that one into
the ground.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
But there's one more episode in ten more seasons coming.
I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
I don't know how many there are, all right, moving
on to the White Lotus, I think now I'm the
one that's going to be doing a lot of complaining.
I saw a lot of people who really loved this episode.
It was the full moon party where everybody just got
their freak on, and I mean it was fun to
watch up to a certain point, but I felt like
(40:30):
every scene was going on way too long. I mean,
I don't know, I I guess I'm just not that
interested watching people party. That's just not interesting to watch
for extended lengths of time. And we had, you know,
the three girlfriends who all can't stand each other. They're
out in a nightclub with those guys, and then we
(40:52):
have the two brothers hanging out with the two women
and they're partying on a boat and doing drugs and
all this stuff. And that's fine. I'm not believe me,
I am completely not scandalized by any of these scenes.
I'm actually bored by them. After a minute or two,
I'm like, Okay, we're watching people do shots. That's a
really boring.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
The thing is that about the show. It's number one.
I can't if I watch one more thing on TikTok
about the Easter eggs, Oh my god, I can't stand it.
It's like, stop, stop over analyzing everything, the theories and everything.
But I think the thing with the show is that
(41:30):
I think Mike White has a very specific idea or
not idea, but he has a very specific purpose with
the show to present certain points. But I think these
points get over emphasized a lot. I also think some
of it the whole thing about white people traveling, taking
other cultures and countries as their playground. I think that's
(41:54):
always the theme with his show, white people with problems
with a lot of money, just going and not giving
a shit about anything else. Because I think that's that's
what the whole episode is about. It's about like these
people with money, uh, drinking and having a good time
in a different country, and and and you know, some
of the locals, like the Russian guys, clearly taking advantage.
(42:15):
I was expecting more stuff to happen.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Well, I mean that whole I'll say it. I mean
everything with the women and those guys, I I was
waiting for not waiting for it, but I was like,
this is going to get any second or if he
got all of the well, they were in the actual resorts,
so I don't think they're kill anybody.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
But still their money or jewelry or whatever.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
I was like, and I guess we were supposed to
feel that.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Right, right, But that's the point that I'm trying to
make here. He always makes this point that is these
you know, rich people, white people vacationing in, you know,
in these places, and a not caring about anything, and
the locals always being the people, you know, taking advantage
of that. I think he always makes the same point
that white people money traveling in in some countries and
(43:02):
and the locals taking advantage of the tourists. Uh, there's
always also a theme.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I think there's also a a sort of snobbery that's
on display where sure you're puncturing the white people, but
you're also there's way I don't love the way he
treats staff in his story, but I think I think
that he, uh, he thinks he's making a certain point
about about how they're exploited or how they're treated as
(43:32):
objects and this and that. But you're doing that narratively
in a lot of ways, you're just making well. First off,
the dumbest fucking person in the story is Gaetak, and
I don't love that.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
I don't want that.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
You're making this bumbling there aren't let them put it
this way. There are not a lot of Thai characters
or Thai actors on this show that is set in Thailand,
and the only one that has a story you made
an idiot, right. That's the kind of stuff where I'm like, Okay,
I feel like a lot of this stuff that he's
(44:06):
doing with the white lotus is really about unpacking his
own prejudices as a white person. God, yes, very much so.
It's stuff sneaks through that. I'm like, I don't think
you've unpacked that as well as you think.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
It's a very it's a very white story through and through.
And even when you get someone like Belinda, for example,
you know she's still an employee, she's still a.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Party, she still has the least interesting like they're spending
hours fucking people taking pills on boats, and we get
a little bit of her. She finally got some movement
and I'm bad she's getting laid And that scene was
adorable where she was like, do you have consent here
because we just started doing it, which was But again,
I feel like she's like an anterthought because well, she's
not white and she's staff. That's the thing, like, narratively,
(44:51):
you're treating the staff like staff, and I don't understand.
Maybe you think you're making a point there, but it
leads me to be very.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Clear that everyone felt bad for her the previous season.
Uh huh, and then he decided to bring her back.
But there's nothing going on for her here. It's kind
of the same, right, the same, you know, yeah, yeah,
she's she's Steph. She's she you know, she's she's an employee.
She's not much moving, and I feel like every episode
it's the same. I mean, like Mike the Father, Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
I can't watch Jason Isaacs get strung out anymore.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Like Jesus get on Joe's phone, that's all he does.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
How did he think that was that was gonna work narratively?
At who see? There's something I want to We haven't
touched on the fact that there is a stunningly amazing
scene in the middle of this episode that almost makes
up for any complaints we have, and that's the scene
with Sam RAI. Oh my god, yes, but I do
before we get into that, I do want to say
(45:48):
that scene. The whole time, that scene was unfolding, and
it really is brilliant. If you've read any of the
interviews with Mike White or behind the scenes stuff like that,
he basically gets a cast full of peace. Well, he
gets HBO to give him a shit ton of money
and they go off to a resort where they lived
for six months, and they all said he was basically
(46:09):
writing it as they were going. They were getting pages
early in the morning, that sort of thing. And to me,
I was like, okay, this to me sums up both
the brilliance and the downfall of this approach is because
that scene to me, sounds like something you just Sam
Rockwell is Leslie Bibbs part Oh yeah, So I don't
know if he was there, and they kind of talked
(46:29):
him into it and they worked up this scene that
came out of nowhere. It doesn't really I mean, the
story would be fine without it. They did not need
this scene at all, but it was just it was
so well written, and the two of them, the acting
in that scene. God, first off, I think it's you know,
(46:50):
it was two really interesting illustrations of the choices actors
make and acting every Walton Goggins had almost no lines.
In fact, I think he only said uh huh and
come on or something like that, and everything was in
his facial expressions, which were brilliant really, And whereas Mark
(47:11):
No Sam Rockland Sorry, everything everything about that worked specifically
because of his line delivery, choices, how he chose to
say certain things. So it's one actor who was doing
all the vocal verbal work to make a scene happen,
and another actor is doing all of the facial work
to make and two of them just it could not
(47:33):
have been any better. They were perfect. Guy.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
I had such a wonderful time reading. We were cracked
reading all the reading everything that the Queer people has
said about that. It's just hysterical. Because I was in shocked,
you know. I turned to you and we were started
laughing because he was like, this is perfect.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
I think he's going to get an Emmy nomination just
for that scene. God, it was so so fun It
was funny.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
It was brilliantly brilliant, It was funny. Yeah, it says
so much about a lot.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
Well, I mean it actually did sum up. If there's again,
if there's a theme to this episode, it was desire.
You know, it was Blinda giving consent, it was Carrie
Coon taking her top off in the pool with the
Russian guys. It was it was sex. It was it
was the brothers kissing, kissing. Yeah, so it was a
lot of illicit, forbidden sort of desire. That's what the
(48:25):
whole episode was about. And I mean it was nice
to have a thematically tight episode, but again, like where
is the story going? Like how where is the story going?
Speaker 1 (48:36):
I mean, yeah, I mean at what point is.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Walton Goggins going to try and kill the man who
is going to turn out to be his father? At
what point are those two brothers just going to have sex?
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Like right?
Speaker 2 (48:47):
I think that storyline's weird. But I gotta say, like
when when there's a modern fascination with cannibalism and incest
right now? And I think there's a lot of reasons
why that's the case. And I don't think they're interesting.
I don't think they're interesting me.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
I don't think they're interesting. That whole family. I mean,
I'm even poor Parker Posi. My god.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
She had a good scene where the daughter who And
this is something that Mike White does with something he's
pretty good at. It is you're listening to the daughter
and as a viewer, you're like, you want to be
on her side because her parents are everyone in the
family is terrible, and at least you know she's trying
to better herself. And then you listen to her and
you're like, oh, you're just a spoiled little white h Okay,
(49:28):
I'm going to take a year off and you're going
to pay for it.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
And then you you're surprised to think that you know,
Parkopos is the one with the right being reasonable here, Well,
I don't know about that.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
She's pretty racist.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
I know, but the whole thing about like, but clearly
she understands that the daughter is just not going to
go with it or or it's you know, she's delusional, right,
that the daughter is delusional. But it's it's very interesting.
I think the show again, I think he keeps repeating itself,
the same story.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
He doesn't have anything new to say it.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
It doesn't add anything with any you know, with every
new season. It's just a different location, and I think
you kind of fooled by that, that it's just a
different location.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
I also think he's not really saying anything all that deep, like, Okay,
rich white women are vapid bitches and rich white men
are douchebags. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat repeat. That's all he's
been saying. Everyone's entitled and they treat employees and staff terribly,
and that's it. I will say again, there was some
(50:33):
good writing in the scene with when Belinda went to
the German concierge. I can't remember that guy's name, but
actually his facial expressions are hilarious as well, and tried
to tell him about Greg, and the way he dismissed
her was very much a microaggression as it was written.
(50:53):
I feel like it was definitely deliberately a white staff
member telling a black woman who felt that she was
in danger to just get over it, right.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
I think what the show lacks is sort of like
a Dalton Abbey approach to a guest and staph. I
mean you need to I think you need to explore
more of the lives of the staff people, you know, like,
the more about them, what they do, their lives, or whatever,
so that make the whole thing interesting. But right now,
it feels like it's just the white, white, white, white
(51:24):
white people staying at the hotels and very little about
the people working at the hotels, you know what I mean.
Like it it feels unbalanced to me as a show,
and you know you interested. I mean, like Greg the
entire season. I mean, he's done nothing.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
He barely speaks.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah, he's just there, right, but there's nothing going on.
I don't know. Again, its great act I mean, lastly,
I absolutely love Leslie, but I think she's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Funny with the Russian guys.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
Yes, so you get that Carrie, you know, Carry Cohn
and all these people. They're amazing, so you get to
see them, you get to watch them act. But in
terms of show, in terms of the you know, how
interesting the show is and how well put together the
show is, you know, not.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
Really I agree, But I will finish watching. I will
finish out this season, but I'm definitely not checking it
out next year. Oh if there's a season for I
just I As I said last week when we were
covering the show, it's just not for me. Other people
seem to be fascinated by this, and I think it's
(52:32):
not really saying anything interesting. So great cast, but I
feel like they're all being wasted at this point.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
It's funny how we feel about these shows, because I
feel the same thing about Severance. I don't think I'm
watching Severanth anymore, but I will continue with a white lotust.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah. So all right, then that wraps it up for
this week. We'll be back next week with whatever crosses
our eyes across the desk. Until then, take care of yourselves,
love you mean it, Bye bye bye. A Bason fus
a adversent rink and advising Friek in Sadie Bank k
(53:08):
and subjacent field Extension
We're Tom Lorenzo.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
And this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest. Hello kitt Is,
Welcome back to another edition of the p s O.
I am the Tea and you're te Low Tom Fitzgerald,
and I'm here with the Low and your t lot Lorenzo,
my cousin, my lovely husband. It is Saint Patrick's stay,
I know, exciting and the Fitzgerald.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Anywhere in your US Guinness shirt, Guiness T shirtlan.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Soda bread in the oven. And you know, we're just
doing our thing. I'm not doing every year brownless time.
I usually make a Guinness steal and I didn't deal
it this year because number one, your vegetarian. Number two,
for various reasons, we've been eating a lot of ritz
food lately. And number three, the last time I looked
(01:06):
at stew meat, my god, it was insanely expensive. So
I was like, you know what, it's just not worth
it for me.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I know, potatoes for you.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
No, I'm not even like I'm kind of on a
cleanse right now. I'm just doing soup for the next
vegetable soup for the next couple of days. We just
had a lot of a lot of junkie food. There
was a funeral a couple of weeks ago, and that's always.
It was an Italian funeral, so far.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Forgot to buy Irish potatoes.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
People don't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Google it, google it.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Irish potatoes are a Philadelphia candy made out of cream,
cheese and confection of sugar and coconut that has rolled
into little balls and then those little balls are rolled
in cinnamon and they're dentating, given little irregular shapes and
they look like tiny little potatoes and they are a
Philadelphia delicacy.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
They are amazing. I buy them every year and I
forgot to buy them. Let's seeing. But yeah, I was
just looking at my picture, our picture pictures Island pictures.
Of course, you know, we had such a wonderful time
we did.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
We went to Ireland in November and that was for
a wedding.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
And a beautiful castle and anyway, I was just looking
at the pictures and we we had a wonderful time
and I can't say, you know how friendly and nice
people were there, Just very very nice people. Anyway, So yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Happy Saint Patrick's David. Everyone Irish or not Irish or
honorary Irish, as we say, we have much to discuss,
a little bit of fashion, a little bit of pop culture,
and a little bit of television. So we're really like
living up to that Pop Style Opinion best name. We
are in the back half of this podcast going to
(02:46):
run through the latest two episodes of Severance or the
latest episodes of Severance and the White Lotus, and Lorenzo
actually has a little TikTok story to get to which
we're not.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, But before we do any of that, I wanted
to do just a few minutes on Donna Tella Bversace
because shocking it was a noow, I don't know how
shocking it is. She's almost seventy. It was announced that
she would be stepping down as the creative director of
Brasace after twenty eight years I believe. Yeah, ninety seven
(03:20):
was when Gianni was killed.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You remember that, I do, because I remember exactly where
I lived. I was living with a roommate at the
time I was dating you.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah. Anyway, so I just thought, you know, we don't
talk about fashion all that much on this Pop Style
Opinion for or not as much as I would like.
And she is a pop culture figure, which is kind
of what I wanted to do here was talk about,
but just give a little tribute to our Donna Tella
after twenty eight years. I'll talk to you in a minute.
(03:53):
For me, I think it's worth noting that she, I mean,
the Versace House of VERSACEI was always a family business.
It was her and Johnny, and there's another brother involved
as well. And you know, she was always involved in
the business aspect of it and tangentially apparently tangentially involved
in the creative aspect of it because she was literally
(04:15):
Rihanni's muse. It's very cool.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
They were very close.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, and it's very clear when you look at the
the Versace aesthetic of the nineties, like Donna Tella was
all over that. She was inspiring that completely. I think
she's an interesting figure in the in the world of
fashion because you know, very few people took over a
house because the house, you know, the person who established
(04:41):
the house was killed and not just that, but was
her brother. And I think there was at you know,
there was an unusual level of emotional resonance in her
rising to the top of this company. I mean, she
was already at the top of it. It's not like
she was a secretary or something before he died. And
(05:01):
for me, I think it's interesting because I've been following
fashion long enough to know that nobody really believed she
was going to manage it, right, I mean, do you
agree with me back then that you know nobody thought
she was going to be able to take over that company?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Now I watched if you if you watch there, there's
a great I feel like fashion. There's a great documentary.
You can find it on tube. I think that's the
only place you can find called Catwalk. It's a great
documentary about fashion week in Europe with the amazing Christine
Christy Turleton model anyway, so it's a great documentary and
(05:38):
it shows a lot of versacea the show and all
the supermodels and all that, and it shows her with
him do not Tell vers with her brother, and you
can see the relationship they had, like and she's very shy.
If you watch the documentary, she's very shy throughout the
entire thing, like listening to him and doing everything he's
telling her to do, telling her yeah, just just you know.
(06:00):
It's so it's surprising. I mean, I guess she had
no choice.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
I think that's admirable.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
How yes sapped up that when he died, nobody believed
her that she could, you know, believed in her that
she could uh take over right and continue with the
with the amazing brand. I mean, whether you like it
or not, if you think it's techy or whatever, that's
that's a I think a lot.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Of the whole different story feel that Versace the brand
lost something and that it never got that right. And
that's fair. I mean, that's fair. He's the founder. He
established that aesthetic. I don't think any person I mean,
you know, I know she was a Nazi and everything,
but Chanell lost something when Coco stepped down there the
people found Yeah, that's just it. There's it's a singular
(06:42):
vision up until that point, and then it stops being
that person's vision.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I was crushed when you you you know, she stepped down.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, there's a lot of people stepping down right now.
Not many founders, many founders.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I mean mutual product because it was so pacific her work, right,
and then when you invite other people to take over
as the creative director of a brand, they bring their
own DNA no matter what. Yeah, I mean, look at
what happened with the Gucci and now what's happening with Valentino.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Or Caroline Herrera.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yes, I mean they just change. I mean Oscar Dolente.
It's a completely different brand.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
And Donna Karen got ran into the ground after she
stepped down.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So and Versace say what you want about VERSACEI but
Versace has caused a lot of conversation and it stirred
a lot of things like I don't know if you
remember the very famous before even Jennifer Lopez, I believe
the famous black Versace dress that Elizabeth Harley.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
That was when Gioannny was alive. Yeah, that's a safety
pin dress.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Everyone nobody knew who she was, and all of a sudden,
she was like who is this woman? And he was,
you know, this incredible dress that she wore. And then
Jennifer lopis later.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
But that was Donna Talla, right, Yeah, focusing on Donna Tella,
I think it's interesting, Uh we think about these things
like the safety pin dress and how how Johnny made
fashion or he was one of the people who made
fashion into a pop culture you know happening. And my
(08:13):
point is that I feel like Donna Tella took that
and ran with it to a level he never even
accomplished in his lifestyle. I know it's not fair to
make these comparisons because of course his work was cut short.
And I do believe that he was the greater designer,
There's no question of that. And also I'm not naive.
I really don't think Donna Tella was painting things to
(08:33):
dress forms and sketching things by hand. She was a
creative director. She walked through and said yes or no
to the decisions that other people were made.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Most most of them do it.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
That's what most of them do at a certain level. Anyway.
It's not like Michael Core's is painting things up. No,
or Mark Jacobs or Tom Brown, any.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Of them, My god, please. Yeah, the time when you
know calll was like sketching things, you know, at the last.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Thirty years in the past.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
That doesn't happen anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, So what we're talking about is is not so
much her skill as a designer, because I don't think
anyone really knows how much she was involved in any
of that. It's basically her skill as a figurehead as
a leader of the company. She and one of the
things that I think is interesting. Of course, Gianni was
known for his use of supermodels, and he was known
(09:26):
for the uh, you know, the safety pin dress. So
I'm not taking anything away from his ability to create
these women's wear moments that were, you know, like lightning bolts. However,
when I think of nineties Versace, I think of that
as such a gay male aesthetic. It defined the gay
male socialistetic.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
In the nineties.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Every guy was out on the dance floor ripping off
their imitation Versace shirts. Yeah it's not their real ones.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
That was the look.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
That silk shirt with that black and gold versages. God, yes,
every homo had that shirt. And when it's not that
he wasn't you know, he was known for women's Princess
Diana was one of his biggest clients when she died.
But I feel like she really turned it into a
woman's company. She turned it into a company that had
a woman's point of view at its head, and she
(10:16):
so many celebrity women are just in awe and in
love with Donna, Tella and Hathaway, Lady Gaga. They just
adore her, And I don't think Gianni was ever going
to be capable of that kind of image. I think
it's interesting how it went from this gay male company
to this very woman centered company.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I think it's fantastic. Uh, it's a fantastic combination. Also,
she adore entertainment, the entertainment industry she did. She adored
actors and musicians and everybody, and it was the perfect match.
It was because she dressed so many people and so
many people loved her fashion. I think it's fantastic. It's
same thing in a way with Dosha Gabana in a way.
(10:57):
I mean, it's a fantastic brand.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
It's perfect for celebrities, perfect for.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Brand for celebrity. It's a shame that they're terrible people.
They're terrible people. It looks it feels like they have
learned something because they've been very quiet after what happened.
But still, but it is one of those brands you know,
like do Chigaban and Versace, that it's still family. It's
still representing a very specific part of the world, you know, Italy,
(11:25):
very Italian. Just fantastic.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
So I feel like with Donna tell Is stepping down,
I do feel like fashion is losing something. First out,
there are not many superstar female designers heading houses. They're
just aren't it. We're moving into exees me into a
very male oriented fashion period, which is a damn shame,
and I'm not sure we're likely to see the creative
(11:53):
director as celebrity reached that same level. I mean, the
last one was probably Carl Lagerfeld. I would think that
Dona Talla was a bigger celebrity than even carllographer. I mean,
Lady Goga wrote a song.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
The thing is that I'm gonna be very honest about
fashion here.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I think I wish there was as if you haven't
been I know now he's been holding his cards close
to his I wish there.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Was the perfect combo between queer people and and straight
women in fashion, because I feel like some women, uh designers,
they just don't have Oh honey, what no listen, no
let me. I'm just saying some some are very interesting.
Some understand that they're designing for women, but sometimes the
(12:37):
creative the creativity is not up there as with some
queer man. But at the same time, I feel that
some queer designers are just way I don't understand what
they don't understand what women want right, they're designing for
themselves in a way. So I wish there was a
perfect combo of these two.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Where Donna Talla and were working by side.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
It was that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying that
the women don't know how to design for room with
this now what I said. What I'm saying is that
sometimes I feel like they're a little too safe in
a way, and then I wish they had a little
more spice. But at the same time, I feel like
the queer designers have too much spice. They're too much
and and it's sometimes I don't feel like women want
(13:21):
to wear that.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Right. Well, Donna Tella had that spice. I think definitely.
I think the fashional world was losing something when she said.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Actually we actually uh, I wouldn't see met her, but
we saw her in person, yes, And I.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Was wondering if we were going to tell that story.
This was a long, long, long, long long time ago
in our very early in our blocking careers. In fact,
I'm pretty sure it was before we were professional, before
we were professional. It was the age of you know,
it was the oughts, and a lot of fashion houses
were really reaching out to bloggers because we were like
(14:01):
this a freaking big deal at the time, bloggers, And
it seems crazy now, it seems both of these facts
seemed crazy. Dulching Obana once gifted us with wallets.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Remember that Mark, the Mark Schaikas people invited us to
a specific event, and uh, and and the Donna Tella people,
the Varsace people invited.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It right we were we Mark Jacobs people invited us
to do the Out Magazine party, to go to the
Out Magazine party, and Donna Tella's or the Versace people
invited us to go to the Whitney gala, the Whitney
Museum gun which at the time, I don't think it
really is anymore. It was a really star stud at gala,
not at the level of the met gala. It's not
(14:41):
It wasn't that formal. It wasn't that dressy at all.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
And the uh do Chagabana people, Uh, they loved what
we did at the time, and they sent us a
wallet with with with Toma Lorenzo. Yeah, and I on it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
This was all before we were pro and I wouldn't
really accepted that stuff now. And actually that Whitney a
gala thing that we went to, it was the last
time we did anything like that because we both were like,
you know what, this is not where I want to
it's not what I want to be because you're I
just tell a story. We saw a Starlett who was
(15:18):
famous for having substance abuse problems. We saw her air
kissing Donatella actually, but then we saw her stumble out
into the street with some guy, and it was I
was like, yeah, I don't think I want to see this.
I just I'm not I'm not I'm not Perez Hilton.
I'm not someone who wants to hang out with these people.
(15:38):
I will say that this Starlett is doing well now,
so that's all I'll say. But at the time, and
I've told the story before, which I've named her in
the past, but I don't feel like it's right now. Anyway,
it was, yeah, we saw her air kissing Dona Tella.
We saw Dona Tella sitting just a pet pet and
you you were like, oh my god, well yeah, because
well because we were starfuckers at the time. This was
(15:59):
fifteen years.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
And also it was a moment. I remember all the
news talking about these two meeting oh and getting photographed
and I and we were right there next to them.
That's you know, that's the whole thing. And it's interesting
because you're there, you're sort of pared of the moment
and you see how things are played out.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
I mean, we got to see a lot of celebrities
in a room where there weren't many non celebrities, so
they were kind of relaxed around each other. And that
the biggest reason why I never wanted to go back
to that is, Well, first off, I've never been big
on running up to celebrities and telling them. I just
don't do that right. And this is going to move
into our next conversation about your TikTok thing about running
(16:42):
up to celebrities and bothering them. And I have also
never never You might find this hard to believe. I've
never wanted to be friends with celebrity or anything like that.
I never wanted to be invited to their parties or
anything like that. Someone said that about us about the
Vanity Fair Oscar party YouTube would kill the go and
I'm like, no, no, I would not. I would not
(17:05):
kill to go to that party because you know what,
I wouldn't know anyone, so I'd be like in a
freaking corner, feeling under dressed.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
We went to a we went to a Donna Karen
party and there were a lot of celebrities there.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
But that was in just there were a lot of
passions now.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
But my point is that it feels a little uh,
I don't know, it feels a little weird to be
in environment like that because I don't know, uh, you know,
you're not really part of it. But at the same time,
you feel like you don't want to. I don't know,
ask Kis Tima, I don't know. I just it's it's
a weird situation. I don't mind. When we attended a
(17:40):
ton of fashion shows and we were sitting next to
celebrities because you're there to talk about the show, talk
about the fashions and the runway show, so sitting next
to them, he didn't bother me much. But sometimes you
feel like, all right, I'm not part of this.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
So yeah, all right, that is all of our fashion talk.
Child Anna Tala, you did a wonderful job. And we'll
take a short break care and we'll be right back.
We're back, and Lorenzo has a TikTok tale that he
wants to tell you.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Lorenzo go, it's just funny thing that happened, because it
was all over TikTok and some publications. We're talking about
it is that Scarlott. Johansson gave an interview she had
a whole thing for we posted on our site for
Insig magazine. She was in cover of the magazine and
she gave an interview about talking about a lot of things,
but one of the things she discussed was that she
(18:30):
doesn't like to be photographed with fans. She doesn't like
to take photos with fans. And it was funny because
she kept saying it really fans a lot of people
when I say that that I don't like to have
my picture taken with fans. In her quote, I thought
it was hysterical actually, because she says, I to I
don't want to be identified as being in this time
and place with you. I'm doing my own thing, And
(18:51):
I thought it was funny. I'm actually going to use
that line when people ask me to invite me to something.
I'm just going to say, I don't want to be
identified as being this time and place with you. I
just thought it was a funny way to put it.
But you know, I don't disagree with her. The whole
thing with taking pictures with celebrities. I never understood. Like
(19:13):
I said, and Tom said, we attended. We have attended
a ton of events with a bunch of celebrities, like
fashion Week, we sat next to them and behind them
or something, and I never felt the need to take
pictures with them or have my picture taken or whatever
asked to have a selfie, because that's the thing people do.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Know.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I don't know, it's just not my thing. I always
feel like I'm just, i know, taking their time, you know,
in a way. I don't know how you feel about it,
but that's how.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
I Yeah, I felt the same way. And you thought
it was kind of funny, but I thought she was
being perfectly reasonable. I thought it was a reasonable quote.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, well, the thing And when when celebrities say stuff
like that that they didn't want to have their picture
taken immediately, people always feel like, you know, but you
why are your celebrity? Then? You know, why are you?
Why do you do what you do? If you know
the fans are going to ask for a picture. I
can understand that. I can understand situations where I don't know,
I'm not famous. We're not famous, but we've been in
(20:12):
you know, we have experienced situations where we were actually
in Europe and people recognize us and and and came
up to us and said hi, And usually this is
what I do. And I wish celebrities would do that
more often, But I guess it's me happening once in
a lifetime, once once a year, and then and happened
(20:32):
to them like every five seconds. I usually come up
to the person. I say, do you want Do you
want a picture? Can I? Or you? Or even I?
Sometimes I say can I have your picture? Can I
have can I take a picture with you? Just to
make things easy for them, uh, and less uncomfortable for everybody.
But I guess celebrities have to deal with that all
the time, so they can't say that all the time,
you know, to everybody they see or me, do you
(20:54):
want a picture? You know? Uh, you know, go ahead
and volunteer to have the picture taken, as opposed to
wait until they ask for it. But I don't know.
I just feel it's it's a tough situation because I
understand as a fan, you're a fan of that person,
and and then you know, you get crushed no matter what.
If you know, if you want to have your picture
(21:16):
taken with that person and that person turns you down.
I understand that you feel uncomfortable with the whole thing.
So so, But at the same time, celebrities have to
deal with that all the time, and I do feel
like sometimes celebrities are just want to They just want
to have their time, you know, with their family or
or doing whatever they're doing and not be bothered by fans.
(21:38):
So anyway, I just thought it was funny the way
she phrased it right, that she doesn't want to be
identified as being in this time and place with you,
which is funny way to stay.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I agree with her. I'm with her on that one. Anyway.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Is that it yeah, yeah, yeah, just because everyone was
talking about it. And of course when when a celebrity
says something like that, you know, people are kind of
divided and they always defend and the celebrity or they
they say, you know, oh, but you were an actor,
you know, you know, you shouldn't be famous if you
don't want to have your picture taking blah blah blah
type of thing.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Before we take a break, because we're gonna come back
and we're going to talk about the White Lotus and
severans and that's going to be a spoiler filled conversation.
You wanted to make a recommendation for another Netflix.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yes, everyone is talking about. I actually had seen the
screeners and and I was like, well, this is gonna
be good. It's it's a show called adolescence on Netflix.
It's actually a very interesting show. It's about a kid
being accused of killing his classmate. So is the whole
(22:44):
story about him getting arrested and dealing with the family
and and he's a kid in prison. And it's a
very interesting show. Uh, it's hard to watch. It took
me a while to finish the first episode because I
kept stopping it. Also, I don't know if I can
watch this. It's tough because it's a kid. But it's
(23:05):
really really good.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Everyone is talking about how great the kid is. It's
his first job acting, but he does a phenomenal job,
and it deals with everything like being bullied at you know,
as school and social media and uh, you know, all
the all the issues that a kid go through these days,
(23:28):
and not excusing anyone for killing anyone if in fact
you did. I don't want to give any spoiler here,
but the whole thing how you raise kids these days,
and with social media and all that, the pressure to
act a certain way as a boy, as a little boy,
you know, Uh, so it's it's it's an interesting show.
It's a very interesting show, and I highly recommend it.
(23:51):
It will be tough to watch for some people, but
if you can, you know, handle the material, I highly
recommend it. So it's called Adolescents Netflix Excellent.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
All right, we'll be right back. We're going to take
a short break and then we're going to dive into
those two episodes, those episodes of the White Lotus and Severance.
We'll be right back. We're back now. We're going to
dive into Severance, which this is the penultimate episode of
season two, which we'll be leading into the finale next week,
which is supposedly seventy six minutes long. And when the
(24:27):
finale for the first season aired, I think it was
what was at twenty twenty two, I said it was
the best season finale in like ten years we had
seen in like ten years, And so for me, the
show has a lot to live up to in next
week's finale. This episode, I it's really interesting to me
(24:47):
to read online reactions to Severance, because there was a
certain level of fandom for the show that has a
completely opposite reaction to everything that I am more and
more and more and more, actually, more and more, I
think they're wrong. There's a certain segment of viewers that
thinks this is all about figuring out puzzles and getting answers,
(25:09):
and if they don't get answers in a timely manner,
or they don't get the answer that they wanted to get,
they start getting complaining about it. These last two episodes.
Last week was the Gemma specific episode and this week,
oh no, I'm sorry. Last week was Miss Cobel's episode,
the week before that was Gemma, And I think people
(25:30):
are getting very frustrated because the show is taking time
to fill in things, to tell backstories, to tell you
what's going on, what led to all of the what's
happening right now? You said something, We're going to run
through the entire episode. You said something before we flipped
on the mics, and you said, your biggest problem with
this show is that you have a hard time caring
(25:50):
about any of the characters.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Well, that's my I keep watching every episode as I'm
watching them with you, and I keep watching them and everything.
All I can think while I'm watching is like, I
don't care for any of these people. I'm watching a
beautiful show. I'm watching a great show to a certain extent.
Beautiful cinematography's gorges, the music is excellent, very contemporary take
(26:16):
on a show. But at the same time, I don't
care about any of these people, and that's a flaw.
I think that I really don't care about any one
of them.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I cannot say that I agree with you on this.
I thought, for instance, in this episode. Now I'll say this,
up until a certain point on this show, I agree
with you. It's been a little too cold, a little
too not giving us. And I complained about that earlier
in the season, where I felt like the show was
(26:45):
so up its own ass wanting to have all these
weird moments that it wasn't giving you human moments. And
I feel like this episode was actually the one where
everyone was acting like a human being. I thought Bert
and Irvings goodbye scene was heartbreaking. I thought it was
beautifully acted by both actors, and it made me care
for both of those men. I thought Gretchen breaking up
(27:09):
with her any husband was also really really sad, and
I thought both of them, Merrit wait Weaver and Zach
Terry just acted the hell out of that scene. It
was absolutely heartbreaking to watch and to me, that is
when the show is interesting. I don't give a shit
about the goats. I don't give a shit about the numbers,
(27:30):
and frankly, I know it's important, but I don't give
a shit about Cold Harbor. I know it is important,
but as long as I'm getting human stories, I don't
really give a shit about all of these mysteries and
puzzles that people want to have answered. I do.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I feel like I'm watching great actors performing beautifully with
a material that is just verything.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
That's scene with Burton Irving was touching.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yes, yes, but it's like but it's like moments.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Well that I'll get there's not a lot of flow.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Right exactly, and.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
It's all still issues with pacing. I mean, Mark started
reintegrating like five episodes ago, and we're still not getting answers.
And not only that, but I feel like they're walking
back into grat I mean, the whole point of integration
was that we were going to they were going to
literally that's why it's called integration, integrate that the any
(28:25):
and the abbey, so that they would become one personality.
But that has not happened.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
No.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
In fact, this whole episode was about them going to
tremendous lengths to try and get in touch with marx Any,
And I was like, well, what isn't marks Any already integrated?
He's had brain surgery at this point, What was the
point of that? Did that fail? Is he dying? Like
there's a little bit too much of that. I want
(28:50):
to explain a couple of things, because I think the
show isn't great about explaining it, and I did see
some confusion among people. If you're not like following this
shit religiously and like running to Reddit to theorize right it,
you might have missed some things. They Devin, his sister
and Miss Cobell took Mark to a birthing These like
(29:14):
birthing cabins as birthing retreat for women to give birth
and it's a lumin facility. I don't know why Devin
was there. In the first episode, the first two episodes
of the show, she was there. That's where she gave
birth to her baby, and she met a woman who
they got along. They introduced each other, and then she
she met her months later in a park and that
(29:36):
woman did not remember her because and then Devin figured
it out that she had been severed and I had
to remember that. So Miss Cobell and Devin drove Mark
to this place and when they get there, Miss Cobell
says that she has someone she needs a specific cabin
and the woman won't let her in, and the whole
facility is lumen and she says, I have one of James's.
(30:02):
It's no one is to know James Egan or Jame
Egan is Helena's father, that creepy old man. So the
implication there is Jame Egan, like Elon Musk Style, has
sired a lot of children with a lot of different
women who were then sent off to the facility to
give birth and not remember it like it's weird, weird,
(30:23):
weird shit. Anyway, that's what happened there, and the minute
Mark walked in to that cabin, it triggered his any.
I'm only explaining that because someone actually asked me to
explain that I did, and you and you actually to
explain it. And that's what that final scene is, is
him his Any seeing Miss Cobell for the first time
(30:47):
since that party at his sister's house last year. And
there is some parallel parallelism going on there because his
last words at that in that episode, which was the finale,
was she's alive, right, And then when the final words
in this episode were she's alive because mss Coton they
asked him to say, do you remember what you said
(31:07):
the last time you saw her? So we're finally going
to get I don't know what are we going to get?
We already know Jema's alive, so I don't know what
this meeting. They treated it like this big momentous thing,
and I guess getting into some criticisms of the show
this episode in particular, uh so Mark and Devin drive
(31:32):
out into the woods somewhere to meet Miss Kobell and
she shows up and they don't ask her anything of
import They stand around staring at her.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
That's all they do always.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
And I'm sorry, that's just stupid. Don't bring characters together
if you were not ready to have information shared in
the street, can bed Stein, It's like real people would
not be. At one point, Mark did say, what are
we doing here? She's there and we're here, and I
was like, that is the first human thing, yes, I've
(32:06):
heard out of your mouth in a really long time.
And then Miss Cobell says to explain another thing that
happened in that scene that I don't think the show
was very good at explaining. Miss Cobell made him call
mister Miltchick, right. The reason she made him call mister
Miltchick was if mister Miltchik had said, oh, that's fine,
you don't need to come in today, then that means
(32:26):
Cold Harbor was completed and Jemma's dead. Right, That's what
that phone call was for.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
But she doesn't explain it was.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
She doesn't explain any of that. It was to determine
whether Gemma was still alive. Where was I? Oh? So yeah.
They they don't ask her any questions, and then she
tells them we can't go until we go under cover
of night. And then the show goes off and does
other scenes, and then it comes back to them getting
(32:54):
in the truck as the sun is setting, and I'm like,
what the heck? They just stood out in the cold
for hours waiting for the sun to set. That is
not That does not make sense. And it just brought
me right back to that ort bow, the one where
they went out into the cold into that where none
of the staging of that made any sense if you
(33:15):
thought about it. For more than a few seconds. It's like, well,
what they walked irving out into the middle of a lake.
What it's the showcase? And then I did actually laugh
at the final scene where they Mark walks into this
unbelievably satanically ominous room I know, and I'm just like,
it's a birthing cabin. Why would they even have a
(33:38):
room like this in that cabin? It sometimes the need
to be weird to give a visual, and it's sort of.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Overwhelms They walked into the yellowjackets, nice set.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
It just overwhelmed any common sense in the storytelling. And
then it's like, all right, now you're just being stylish,
you know, and it's not really making any sense. However,
I did enjoy this episode because they're there was constant
movement in the plot because and every single person had
a deeply emotional reaction, except for maybe Helena, although she
(34:11):
I loved her scene with mister Milchick where she reminded
him that you know, he may be her boss, but
outside she's his boss. Ultimately, she's saying, there literally is
nothing you can do to me. You can get mad
at me, you can threaten me, there is nothing I'm
an Egan, there is nothing you can do to me.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
I think the only reason why the show is still standing,
you know, in my opinion is because everyone is a
very good actor and they perform really well. But in
terms of material, I think there's so many holes.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I don't think there's holes. I just think there's a
lot of pacing problems. I did like mister Miltchick's scene
with I can't remember the other guy who hates mister Drummond,
who hates him so much, where he told him to
devour feculents and it was a fun scene.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
He is a great actor.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
He's great. I think. If you want to talk theme,
I do think there was an on a pretty clear
theme of this in this episode of abuse, starting at
the top and then trickling its way down. Like you
saw Helena eating her Helena who has a clear eating disorder,
because who the fuck eats their egg like that? And
(35:19):
it's a control issue between her and her father. She
is refusing to allow him to tell her how to
eat an egg, and he's being abusive towards her. And
then you see, like you know, mister Miltchik has been
abused by mister Drummond all season long, and then he
takes it out on poor miss Wong right, who in
that scene was just sad and very very cruel. Actually
(35:41):
it's also again the show starts getting into like this
weird ass ship where he makes her put her toy
on the table and then crush it with the head,
and I was like, what, what the come on?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
That's when the show I mean.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Even nobody eggs like this, even the.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Egg saying it just went too long. I mean, that's
kind of thing that that I can't stand about the
show is it's creating these things so that people can
talk about, but both they don't mean anything. No, they
don't mean anything, but they get over analyzed. I agree,
and everyone is talking about that.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
Yeah, I think if you think all of this shit
is going to be answered, I'm sorry, it's not going
to be answered in the way you want it to be.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Because the creators think that it looks good and he's
going to get people to talk. They have said that
many many times.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah. For instance, here's something when they were in that
uh train station. I noticed it immediately and then I
saw a lot of chatter about it online. Is that
the train Well, first off, that he bought a train
ticket and it was a little literal ticket that gets
ripped off, one of those things which I haven't seen
that done. I'm not even sure I've ever seen that
(36:46):
done in my life. That's how old that is, right.
And then there's if you look in the background of
that train station, it's like women in dresses and men
in fedoras and over coast or thrievecases and everything. It's
not too too obvious, it's not you could get away
with it being not not period that it's just, oh,
(37:08):
there just happens to be some fairly well dressed people
in here, and that is essentially I think, what's going
on there? But of course, oh my god, there's a
time travel. It's a hologram. They're in a simulation, and
I'm like, no, the creators just really liked seeing people
in old style, and that's it. It's the same thing
with the cars. You know, this isn't set in some
(37:31):
weird time period because everybody has an iPhone. It's they
just think it looks like cool.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Like the damn snow everywhere exactly.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
You can go ahead and knock yourself out, go ahead
and analyze all this stuff. But I don't think any
of it means anything except it looks cool. I'm not
down on the shelve of the way you are. I
actually I think it has improved steadily from what I
thought was a rocky beginning of the season.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
I will give you that, and I agree it getting
better and better.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
But I do think they have jerked around Mark way
too much, Like, let's make this just a little more linear,
let's see the result of his decisions, because he has
been operating on and we still don't have a lot
of answers as to whatever.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
We did get to see him move and speak, so
he's obviously not incapacitated or anything. But I don't know
what was reintegration if Mark is still the same, Like,
what was the point of all of that. You spent
episodes upon episodes on this whole idea and nothing has
changed for Mark. They had to get in touch with
his any whatever.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, h do you.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Have anything else say about that?
Speaker 1 (38:39):
No, it's like I said, I'm watching it because I
think it looks pretty. I think the actors are amazing,
and every now and then there's a scene that you're like, Wow,
these actors are fucking amazing.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I think these last three episodes have been great.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
And that's it. But in terms of like, you know,
if you're gonna die or if you're gonna you know,
see your wife again, you don't give a damn about
any of that anymore.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Oh that's a shame.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Yeah, I do.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I kind of see. I mean, I want to know
where the hell Bird's going, I mean, Irving is going.
I hope he's not written out at this point.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I think I think that, as you said, they could
have explored so much more, like Dylan, the character Dylan,
for example, I think I love him. I think he's
such an amazing character.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I think he's gone now. I know, I'm not hard
to believe.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
No, but I don't think they give him enough. And
his wife is amazing, you know, like everyone is great
given their best. Um like her character what's her name, merritt? Uh,
she's amazing, man Like, she barely speaks and she's like
so powerful, wonderful to watch. But at the same time,
(39:47):
it's like, all right, give her material, give these people
some material.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
The Yeah, I'm not feeling that. I think she did
a beautiful job in that scene where she had a saygodbye.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Well, that's that's the key here. That's the point here.
They do a beautiful job with whatever they get.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
All Right, I believe we have run that one into
the ground.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
But there's one more episode in ten more seasons coming.
I guess, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
I don't know how many there are, all right, moving
on to the White Lotus, I think now I'm the
one that's going to be doing a lot of complaining.
I saw a lot of people who really loved this episode.
It was the full moon party where everybody just got
their freak on, and I mean it was fun to
watch up to a certain point, but I felt like
(40:30):
every scene was going on way too long. I mean,
I don't know, I I guess I'm just not that
interested watching people party. That's just not interesting to watch
for extended lengths of time. And we had, you know,
the three girlfriends who all can't stand each other. They're
out in a nightclub with those guys, and then we
(40:52):
have the two brothers hanging out with the two women
and they're partying on a boat and doing drugs and
all this stuff. And that's fine. I'm not believe me,
I am completely not scandalized by any of these scenes.
I'm actually bored by them. After a minute or two,
I'm like, Okay, we're watching people do shots. That's a
really boring.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
The thing is that about the show. It's number one.
I can't if I watch one more thing on TikTok
about the Easter eggs, Oh my god, I can't stand it.
It's like, stop, stop over analyzing everything, the theories and everything.
But I think the thing with the show is that
(41:30):
I think Mike White has a very specific idea or
not idea, but he has a very specific purpose with
the show to present certain points. But I think these
points get over emphasized a lot. I also think some
of it the whole thing about white people traveling, taking
other cultures and countries as their playground. I think that's
(41:54):
always the theme with his show, white people with problems
with a lot of money, just going and not giving
a shit about anything else. Because I think that's that's
what the whole episode is about. It's about like these
people with money, uh, drinking and having a good time
in a different country, and and and you know, some
of the locals, like the Russian guys, clearly taking advantage.
(42:15):
I was expecting more stuff to happen.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Well, I mean that whole I'll say it. I mean
everything with the women and those guys, I I was
waiting for not waiting for it, but I was like,
this is going to get any second or if he
got all of the well, they were in the actual resorts,
so I don't think they're kill anybody.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
But still their money or jewelry or whatever.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
I was like, and I guess we were supposed to
feel that.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Right, right, But that's the point that I'm trying to
make here. He always makes this point that is these
you know, rich people, white people vacationing in, you know,
in these places, and a not caring about anything, and
the locals always being the people, you know, taking advantage
of that. I think he always makes the same point
that white people money traveling in in some countries and
(43:02):
and the locals taking advantage of the tourists. Uh, there's
always also a theme.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I think there's also a a sort of snobbery that's
on display where sure you're puncturing the white people, but
you're also there's way I don't love the way he
treats staff in his story, but I think I think
that he, uh, he thinks he's making a certain point
about about how they're exploited or how they're treated as
(43:32):
objects and this and that. But you're doing that narratively
in a lot of ways, you're just making well. First off,
the dumbest fucking person in the story is Gaetak, and
I don't love that.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
I don't want that.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
You're making this bumbling there aren't let them put it
this way. There are not a lot of Thai characters
or Thai actors on this show that is set in Thailand,
and the only one that has a story you made
an idiot, right. That's the kind of stuff where I'm like, Okay,
I feel like a lot of this stuff that he's
(44:06):
doing with the white lotus is really about unpacking his
own prejudices as a white person. God, yes, very much so.
It's stuff sneaks through that. I'm like, I don't think
you've unpacked that as well as you think.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
It's a very it's a very white story through and through.
And even when you get someone like Belinda, for example,
you know she's still an employee, she's still a.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Party, she still has the least interesting like they're spending
hours fucking people taking pills on boats, and we get
a little bit of her. She finally got some movement
and I'm bad she's getting laid And that scene was
adorable where she was like, do you have consent here
because we just started doing it, which was But again,
I feel like she's like an anterthought because well, she's
not white and she's staff. That's the thing, like, narratively,
(44:51):
you're treating the staff like staff, and I don't understand.
Maybe you think you're making a point there, but it
leads me to be very.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
Clear that everyone felt bad for her the previous season.
Uh huh, and then he decided to bring her back.
But there's nothing going on for her here. It's kind
of the same, right, the same, you know, yeah, yeah,
she's she's Steph. She's she you know, she's she's an employee.
She's not much moving, and I feel like every episode
it's the same. I mean, like Mike the Father, Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
I can't watch Jason Isaacs get strung out anymore.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
Like Jesus get on Joe's phone, that's all he does.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
How did he think that was that was gonna work narratively?
At who see? There's something I want to We haven't
touched on the fact that there is a stunningly amazing
scene in the middle of this episode that almost makes
up for any complaints we have, and that's the scene
with Sam RAI. Oh my god, yes, but I do
before we get into that, I do want to say
(45:48):
that scene. The whole time, that scene was unfolding, and
it really is brilliant. If you've read any of the
interviews with Mike White or behind the scenes stuff like that,
he basically gets a cast full of peace. Well, he
gets HBO to give him a shit ton of money
and they go off to a resort where they lived
for six months, and they all said he was basically
(46:09):
writing it as they were going. They were getting pages
early in the morning, that sort of thing. And to me,
I was like, okay, this to me sums up both
the brilliance and the downfall of this approach is because
that scene to me, sounds like something you just Sam
Rockwell is Leslie Bibbs part Oh yeah, So I don't
know if he was there, and they kind of talked
(46:29):
him into it and they worked up this scene that
came out of nowhere. It doesn't really I mean, the
story would be fine without it. They did not need
this scene at all, but it was just it was
so well written, and the two of them, the acting
in that scene. God, first off, I think it's you know,
(46:50):
it was two really interesting illustrations of the choices actors
make and acting every Walton Goggins had almost no lines.
In fact, I think he only said uh huh and
come on or something like that, and everything was in
his facial expressions, which were brilliant really, And whereas Mark
(47:11):
No Sam Rockland Sorry, everything everything about that worked specifically
because of his line delivery, choices, how he chose to
say certain things. So it's one actor who was doing
all the vocal verbal work to make a scene happen,
and another actor is doing all of the facial work
to make and two of them just it could not
(47:33):
have been any better. They were perfect. Guy.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
I had such a wonderful time reading. We were cracked
reading all the reading everything that the Queer people has
said about that. It's just hysterical. Because I was in shocked,
you know. I turned to you and we were started
laughing because he was like, this is perfect.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
I think he's going to get an Emmy nomination just
for that scene. God, it was so so fun It
was funny.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
It was brilliantly brilliant, It was funny. Yeah, it says
so much about a lot.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
Well, I mean it actually did sum up. If there's again,
if there's a theme to this episode, it was desire.
You know, it was Blinda giving consent, it was Carrie
Coon taking her top off in the pool with the
Russian guys. It was it was sex. It was it
was the brothers kissing, kissing. Yeah, so it was a
lot of illicit, forbidden sort of desire. That's what the
(48:25):
whole episode was about. And I mean it was nice
to have a thematically tight episode, but again, like where
is the story going? Like how where is the story going?
Speaker 1 (48:36):
I mean, yeah, I mean at what point is.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Walton Goggins going to try and kill the man who
is going to turn out to be his father? At
what point are those two brothers just going to have sex?
Speaker 1 (48:46):
Like right?
Speaker 2 (48:47):
I think that storyline's weird. But I gotta say, like
when when there's a modern fascination with cannibalism and incest
right now? And I think there's a lot of reasons
why that's the case. And I don't think they're interesting.
I don't think they're interesting me.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
I don't think they're interesting. That whole family. I mean,
I'm even poor Parker Posi. My god.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
She had a good scene where the daughter who And
this is something that Mike White does with something he's
pretty good at. It is you're listening to the daughter
and as a viewer, you're like, you want to be
on her side because her parents are everyone in the
family is terrible, and at least you know she's trying
to better herself. And then you listen to her and
you're like, oh, you're just a spoiled little white h Okay,
(49:28):
I'm going to take a year off and you're going
to pay for it.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
And then you you're surprised to think that you know,
Parkopos is the one with the right being reasonable here, Well,
I don't know about that.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
She's pretty racist.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
I know, but the whole thing about like, but clearly
she understands that the daughter is just not going to
go with it or or it's you know, she's delusional, right,
that the daughter is delusional. But it's it's very interesting.
I think the show again, I think he keeps repeating itself,
the same story.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
He doesn't have anything new to say it.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
It doesn't add anything with any you know, with every
new season. It's just a different location, and I think
you kind of fooled by that, that it's just a
different location.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
I also think he's not really saying anything all that deep, like, Okay,
rich white women are vapid bitches and rich white men
are douchebags. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat repeat. That's all he's
been saying. Everyone's entitled and they treat employees and staff terribly,
and that's it. I will say again, there was some
(50:33):
good writing in the scene with when Belinda went to
the German concierge. I can't remember that guy's name, but
actually his facial expressions are hilarious as well, and tried
to tell him about Greg, and the way he dismissed
her was very much a microaggression as it was written.
(50:53):
I feel like it was definitely deliberately a white staff
member telling a black woman who felt that she was
in danger to just get over it, right.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
I think what the show lacks is sort of like
a Dalton Abbey approach to a guest and staph. I
mean you need to I think you need to explore
more of the lives of the staff people, you know, like,
the more about them, what they do, their lives, or whatever,
so that make the whole thing interesting. But right now,
it feels like it's just the white, white, white, white
(51:24):
white people staying at the hotels and very little about
the people working at the hotels, you know what I mean.
Like it it feels unbalanced to me as a show,
and you know you interested. I mean, like Greg the
entire season. I mean, he's done nothing.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
He barely speaks.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Yeah, he's just there, right, but there's nothing going on.
I don't know. Again, its great act I mean, lastly,
I absolutely love Leslie, but I think she's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Funny with the Russian guys.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
Yes, so you get that Carrie, you know, Carry Cohn
and all these people. They're amazing, so you get to
see them, you get to watch them act. But in
terms of show, in terms of the you know, how
interesting the show is and how well put together the
show is, you know, not.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
Really I agree, But I will finish watching. I will
finish out this season, but I'm definitely not checking it
out next year. Oh if there's a season for I
just I As I said last week when we were
covering the show, it's just not for me. Other people
seem to be fascinated by this, and I think it's
(52:32):
not really saying anything interesting. So great cast, but I
feel like they're all being wasted at this point.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
It's funny how we feel about these shows, because I
feel the same thing about Severance. I don't think I'm
watching Severanth anymore, but I will continue with a white lotust.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah. So all right, then that wraps it up for
this week. We'll be back next week with whatever crosses
our eyes across the desk. Until then, take care of yourselves,
love you mean it, Bye bye bye. A Bason fus
a adversent rink and advising Friek in Sadie Bank k
(53:08):
and subjacent field Extension
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