Rachel Zegler, Chappell Roan and "The White Lotus" Finale

T Lo unpack the recent backlash against Rachel Zegler and Chappell Roan, how they differ and how they're the same, and why it all matters that the culture won't let young women speak. PLUS: a very deep dive into everything that went wrong with season 3 of "The White Lotus."

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:24):
We're Tommy Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest. Telegants,
Welcome back to another edition of the PSO. I am
the Tea and your tee lo Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm
here with the low and your te lot Lorenzo, my cousin,
lovely husband. How are your lovely husband fantastic?

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (00:40):
It is a rainy Monday morning. I knew, and Uh,
I just want to shout out to happy new financial
or economic order day to all of us who are
scrambling to buy our coffee and laptops before uh, the
American Accoy, I think it collapses completely. We have nothing

(01:00):
to say on that, and we're going to try and
once again distract you from all of the chaos happening
outside the door.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
We are going to.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Spend most of today talking about the finale of The
White Lotus. We could talk a little bit about last
week's episode, although I don't think it's the point because
we missed last week's podcast. But I'm kind of not
sure what the point would be since presumably everybody listening
has seen the finale, so we have much to unpack
on that. You might not be surprised to hear after

(01:31):
a entire season of us complaining about this show, we're
not actually all that thrilled with how it ended, but
we'll unpack why and how pardon me, as well as
a couple of the controversies that have surrounded the show
in the recent week or so. But before we get
into that, I actually wanted to We've been wanting to

(01:54):
talk about this, and we were going to talk about
it last week. We're a little bit behind on this story,
but it is still unfolding. We wanted to talk about
Rachel Zegler, the snow white star who all of the
most powerful men in Hollywood started turning on her and
blaming her for the failure of the movie, and we

(02:15):
want to unpack some of that story and how it unfolded,
and how it's just a very tale is olden as
time when it comes to Hollywood and pop culture, which
will always seek to weaponize the public's tendency to find
young women annoying. Uh And to that end, we're also

(02:35):
going to tie that into annoying Chapel Roon, who also
tends to set people off, who also had a bit
and these two stories actually they touch on the same thing,
but from opposite sides, and we wanted to sort of
unpack that what they both touch on. I'll start with

(02:57):
chapel Rone. She appeared on the Call Her Daddy podcast
last week and she made some controversial comments, because every
time chap over and opens her mouth, she makes controversial comments.
And I do not say that critically. I'm fine with that.
There's there should be you know, people who are you know, uh,

(03:19):
one of my provocateurs. That's what I want to say.
She's a She's a provocketeur, and that's fine. One of
the things she said was that she she doesn't think
that pop stars should be political, and she she gets
very frustrated with people turning to her for political opinions.
And she went on and on and on in a
way that I found kind of gross, which was about

(03:40):
how she's so busy and how can I possibly, you know,
learn all the things that I need to know blah
blah blah to be.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
How can I be so how can I be politically educated?
And I'm quoting her here when I have to eat,
work out, uh, you know, do my things perform.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
And everybody has to do that, pay people, everybody has
to do that. That's the part that I would. But
before we go into that, the reason we're we're talking
about both of these young women at the same time
is because Rachel Zegler came in for all of this
shit and is her career is right on the cusp
of being ruined because she made a political statement. The

(04:19):
reason everyone, all these executives are claiming that she's the
reason the movie failed is because she tweeted a free
Palestine tweet last year and refused to take it down
when Disney executives asked her to take it down. This
is literally the kind of thing Chapelburne says that she
can't do or doesn't have the time to do, and

(04:41):
you know, here's Rachel Zegler doing it, and she may
actually have her career ruined because of it. I don't
think she will, because I think the public is supporting
her more than all of those Disney execs assumed what happen.
But that's that's the gist of why we're tackling this question.
And now I'm tossing to you if you want to
give some thoughts on any.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
No, it's interesting because I didn't want to talk about
chaperone anymore because everyone every time I talk about her
people were called old men, We'll call old men, and
among other things like but it was all over. The
internet was all over, TikTok, it was all over everywhere.
And I was like, all right, let me listen to
this podcast and see exactly here, you know, listen to

(05:25):
what exactly she said. And yeah, I mean there are
several things. I mean, one of the things she talked
about was that all her friends in their twenties are
miserable in living in hell because they have kids. So
that exploded, and I can I.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
Don't actually think that's an unfair.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
I again, I think I think it's this is how
I read it. I think she's I don't see a
problem saying that. I do think that there's a tendency
to you, uh not let women vant uh you know,
there are frustrations and disappointments in being a mother and
how you know, hell hell it is. I'm not a mother.

(06:12):
I don't have kids, but I hear stories and I'm
quite sure it's very difficult. And it feels like women
can never express that. When they do, you know, they
criticize them for it. So I kind of understand. It
just goes again and again and again with what I've
said about Chapel round is that she's a very good
sound bitter. You know, Yeah, she's sad stuff, but there's

(06:36):
not much there to support it. Most of the time.
I think she could have said the same thing, uh,
in a better way, you know what I mean, phrase
it a little better. And and this is something I
had to learn having a podcast of a website and
everything that you do have to phrase things a little better. Uh,
that's just part of the media. That's just part of

(06:58):
the media. You can't just phrase things the way you
phrased it for you.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
You can't just pop off when you have an audience
that large, because everything that you say is going to
be analyzed and discussed and acted.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
And she should know that by now. And as people
keep people, especially on TikTok, keep pointing out, is like,
you're twenty seven, you're not twenty not exactly, You're not
twenty one or nineteen twenty. So there's a time when
you have to make that switch and then you know,
start acting a little more mature and professional. Actually anyway,

(07:32):
So that's the mother stuff was one thing, and the
other thing was about the political stuff. And I for
the first time now because I didn't see that quite
often before, but now a lot of queer people are
coming after her and talking about that bit she said
about the whole political thing, because everyone is pointing out
the fact that she was very political during the binding

(07:54):
and a dedministration. She didn't she declined an invitation to
for a Pride event at the White House.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
Right.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Uh so, yes you may. When you say, as a
queer person, you say no, I'm not going to perform
it in White House at a Pride event, you're making
a political statement here.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
She has also gotten up and you know at a
ward Summoni's at the Grammys and at the r at
the VMA's made statements in her speeches in support of
queer liberation and everything. And that's the thing that I
do have a problem with is, as I said to
you when we were talking about it over the weekend,
I was like, that girl has been making her name
by wearing queer liberation on her face. Literally, the aesthetics

(08:39):
of queer liberation, the esthetics of drag and listen, she's
a queer woman herself. I'm not saying she doesn't have
the right to those things, but I think when you
are utilizing that as your brand and then saying, you know,
politics is just too hard for me to follow. I
have a I do have a problem with that. And

(09:00):
let me just before I toss to you, and let
me just say something. When October seventh happened, you know,
the attacks in Israel, and I remember several people came, like,
came after us on Twitter and said, why haven't you
spoken out against this yet? And finally I responded to

(09:21):
one of them and I said, why are you asking
me to Like, I am a fashion and pop culture blogger,
why are you asking me to make a statement on this.
So there's a part of me that I actually and
if you follow our site, you know that we're pretty
strict about keeping politics for the most part off of
the site, right because we feel that people need a

(09:41):
place to go that doesn't have that. And we also
the reason we don't talk about I mean, you've heard
us talk about politics. I opened up talking about the
tariffs at the beginning of this podcast, but we don't
go deep into politics because again, that's not my lane.
This is not Tom and Lorenzo didn't make their name
by being polite pundits. So I have some sympathy with

(10:03):
her with what she's saying that as an entertainer, the
public should not be looking to entertainers for political commentary.
On the other hand, you already opened that floodgate. You
have used political commentary and political esthetics in your career,
and now you're saying it's too hard.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
That's the point. And what people are pointing out is
that you were very active saying the things you said
during the Bid administry and now you're completely quiet about everything.
That's number one. Number two is that you dress like
the Statue of Liberty and talked about freedom and all
that on stage, and you're telling me that, oh, it's.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Easier to do that. Well, that's to say, you know,
trans people are, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
So you pick and choose what you want, You pick
and choose what you want to say and when you
want to say, and then you go on one of
the most popular podcasts out there and make a silly
statement because to me, that was silly.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
All right, there's a phone ringing in the background.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
I'm sorry that was that was a silly comment to
make that. You know, I have to pay people, I
have to work out, I have to do things and
that's why I don't have time for politics to be educated. Well,
when you make statements like that, as you made that,
you know there are both sides. Was the story here
with Gaza in the White House and the and the

(11:20):
Biden administration. You are making a statement, you.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Are, I mean, you've already entered the arena. So yes,
backing out of it now.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
When you sarcastically because you did it, sarcastically said that
you were voting for Kamala Harris, you know, jokingly annoyed.
I watched a video. You are making a statement here. Yeah,
but she said Kamala.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
I want to I know, but I just want to know.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
I do know how to pronounce her name, but she said.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Crime.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Now she mispronounced it on purpose as sarcastically because she
was annoying that people were asking her to vote for Kamala. Anyway,
So you made all these things, you said, all these things,
you recorded all these things, and now you think that
you not qualify and listen, I don't think you are
to be honest.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Oh no, well that's very clear.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
I don't think you are. And you and it's fine
if you didn't say anything. You know, they're there are
as many people pointing out I'm not the only one
saying this. There are plenty of celebrities out there who
avoid talking about anything. You could just make your music
and record it and be fine with it. You don't
have to be political, but if you choose to be.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
She made it part of her entire person and that
we're liberation.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
You talk about trans people and supporting trans people, especially
as you said, brown trans people, and you know all
that because.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
Well, that's a political statement. You're in it.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
You're in the arena right when you paint your face
and you say that you're inspired by drag people.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yeah, and drag queens are currently under fire. Trans people
are currently having their right strips from them, and you
are walking around using their esthetics for your career. In
saying that you can't learn about politics because you're too busy,
that sucks, girl.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Just listen. It's all about how you phrase it. When
you say, you know, I have to eat, workout, we
all have to eat.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
That is such bold.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
That is such a lame and offensive offensive. I think
it's offensive to say that because we all have to
do any you know, and sometimes if you do not
get political, you.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Don't eat, right, You don't get to eat, you don't
get to eat. Listen. We said we weren't going to
turn this into a thing where we were screaming at
this girl, and we are so listen. I think once
again with Chapel Roone, she is somewhat ill suited to fame,
but honey, you're here. You've pursued it, and you're here,

(13:49):
and you not only that, but you've been around. We
used to talk about her and say, well, it's all
happened so quick, and it's so new, and it's this
and that and the other. Well, okay, she's it's not
that new anymore. I mean, she's still a young but
she's not a child. She's still knew in her career.
But she's already won Grammys in VMA. So let's stop
talking about her like she's some sort of fawn in

(14:09):
the wood. She is a grown woman with a successful career,
and she's been famous long enough to know that she
should have people around her to help her navigate these things.
And she's constantly shooting off her mouth. And this is
going to get into the Rachel zagular thing. I think
it's great when young women, especially young celebrity women, are

(14:29):
feeling themselves. They're feeling like they can shoot off their mouths,
and like Jenna Ortega when she first hit the scene,
she shot off her mouth and she actually did say
some stupid things about the writing on her show and
claiming that she wound up rewriting her character. And I'm
glad that that backlash died down a little quickly, and
I think she did learn from it, because I think

(14:50):
we followed her career and you can see how much
more professional she is now than she was a year ago.
I think you need to let certainly, we have a
long history in our culture of letting hot young men
shoot off their mouths and say stupid ass shit in
public and never ever suffer any consequences from it. So

(15:11):
all of our bitching about Chapel Roone right now is
simply engaging with what she said. I really don't think
she should suffer anything for it, like lost sales or anything.
You do your thing, you make your music, because she
is good at that. But I do have an issue
with you walking around with friggin drag on your face

(15:32):
and saying that it's too hard for you to research politics.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Here's what's happening right now. A lot of these new
people people becoming famous now, they don't have pure experience.
They don't have experience. I mean, look at Taylor Swift
for example. That's someone who's been doing what she's doing
fifteen years now, right, So that means you have a
lot of experience. Yes she's a pro, but a lot
and you've been through a lot. The new people now

(15:58):
Starter did a YouTube channel or a TikTok account and
became famous immediately. So these people are thrown out there
and they have zero experience. They don't know how to
behave They don't know that whatever they say, well, you know,
will be register recorded and people will come after you.
So that's all that, and it's all new, and I

(16:19):
think people should say whatever they want.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
I think Chapel Roone, everybody, Rachel Zegla should say whatever
they want. Now, that doesn't mean that people are not
allowed to respond to it. You can't go to call
Me Daddy podcast and expect people to just say, yes, ma'am,
we're not going to say anything, right, it doesn't happen
that way.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
I mean that, you know, to be a guest on
that podcast is like the second most It's right behind
Joe Rope, and like there's privilege in that. Of course
you are, you right, an enormous spotlight on you. You
have access to these tremendous platforms. I'm not saying you
are hoosed to be using them for political whatever, whatever, whatever,

(17:03):
But everything about this conversation is a wash in her privilege,
and nobody wants to talk about that because they if
you talk about Chapel Roone, it's just this poor sweet
girl who's just trying to navigate. It's like, no, come on,
she's famous at this point, she's wealthy, she's very well
rewarded for her career with awards and stuff like that.

(17:25):
She's twenty seven years old and she's on like the
biggest podcast platform or the second biggest in the world. Like,
it's okay to talk about what she says and maybe
have some critical things to say about it, as long
as we're not. Can I just move over to Rachel
Zegler because I feel like we're beating this dead sure.
The thing with Rachel Zegler. Number one, Yeah, she actually

(17:48):
did make a political stance and she's stuck to it
even when people were coming after her. And I actually
really admire that. What I want to talk about with
Rachel Zegler is and it's ironic that we're talking about
this at the same time as Chapel Rome, but they
are connected. Is the way pr people will weaponize the

(18:12):
public's dislike of young women. So you're seeing this not
just with Rachel Zegler, but you're seeing this with Blake Lively.
That whole thing that's going on right now is a
justin Baldoni's team weaponizing the fact that a lot of
people think Blake Lively is annoying, and she is, She's
really annoying, but that doesn't mean she deserves to be

(18:33):
sexually harassed or have her career ruined. Rachel Zegler, a
lot of people think she's annoying too, Like she said
a lot of stupid shit about Will snow White when
she was first cast, I mean, really stupid shit. Dumb dumb, dumb,
dumb kid shooting her mouth off. But she's not the
reason that film didn't know. She's not, And in fact,

(18:55):
most of the reviews said she is the bright light
in the film. And there is a freaking chance in
hell that this three hundred million dollar movie or whatever
that people didn't go to see it because of some
tweet she made a year ago. That's not how that works. Now.
The right wing has weaponized hatred against her ever since
she made those comments about snow white and Palestine. But

(19:20):
it is the Disney executives and the producers and the
men behind the desks in Hollywood who are taking that
and running with it and trying to ruin this girl's career.
And I think it's disgusting. Regardless of whether you think
Rachel Zegler's annoying or those snow white comments that she
made were stupid, No, I'm sorry. She does not deserve
to have a career ruin for anymore than Amber Heerd

(19:41):
deserve to have her career ruin because she sued her
husband for.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
I think the key is is it's to not shut
up anybody, but to guide them. So that's direct, so
that they can say the younger generation can see whatever
they feel like they're saying, but in a more productive,
more I don't.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Know, right, more organ nice way. I don't. Yeah, I
don't think Rachel Zegler deserves anything that's coming her way lately.
But I do think had someone in her circle taken
her aside and said, you need to walk back those
snow white comments. And I know she sort of did,
but she didn't do a good enough job of it.
And believe me, I'm not offended by what she said.

(20:19):
Like she said that the movie was, you know, stuck
in nineteen thirty seven and we were gonna update it
because it was so old fashioned. That she's right, she
was right, But you just signed to play the role.
You don't start trashing a Disney movie, especially knowing how
no offense because I know there's some listening, but how
crazy Disney adults can get.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
You can't emphasize that here's the thing, that's how you
freight things. You can't emphasize the parts you're going to change,
But you don't have to sort of the other one
trash the other one. You know, you can point out how,
you know inaccrid there are these days, but I mean
there are ways to say things. I mean, any any
any politic will tell you, yeah, this is you. Anyone

(20:59):
knows that you engage more, people will engage more when
you say things to I wouldn't say the correct way,
but in a way that it's more productive with pr.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
Is for that's what publicists do, is they tell you
how to do this sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Yes, because that's just just how it is marketing anything,
anything you're trying to sell. If you want to get
people's attention in a more productive way, you have to
you have to think about how you're going to say it.
You can't just say things, you know and expect people
to not comment on them. They will, they are going to.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, I just want to I think we're summing this up.
I just want to say, we're bringing up both of
these women because we think it touches on a common theme.
But the the I'm coming to different conclusions with both
of them. I guess. Yes, they both had a history

(21:53):
of shooting off their mounds, and now they are both
receiving backlash for it. And Chapel Roone is receiving backlash
for claiming she wants to be a political while Rachel
Zegler is receiving actually much more backlash because she is
political or she refuses not to be political. And my
takeaway from this is that both of those young women,

(22:15):
as well as some other young women who have pr problems,
Blake lively being one. You know, Jenna, like I said,
Jenna Ortega, I think turned that stuff around and Amberhard
may never have her career back. I guess what I
want to say is that both of those women could
have used help earlier on to help them navigate when
they shot off them so that they could have sort

(22:37):
of more you know, palatable opinions than the ones they
originally expressed. But when it comes to Rachel Zegler and
her stance, which I mean, I'm not going to trash
a girl for saying free Palestine on her Twitter, I
just feel that when we look at this story, we

(22:58):
need to be aware that this is a pattern. And
we watch this unfold a lot, and I keep bringing
up their names, Amber Heard, Blake Lively, you know, general,
to a lesser extent, General Ortega is that powerful men
are going to come after young women who in the
entertainment industry, who have opinions and and you know, express
them loudly. And I just think we need to be

(23:20):
aware of that. We need to be aware when powerful
people are trying to take other people down. And I
think that's what's happening with Rachel Zegler, regardless of how
annoying you might think she is, or even if you
don't agree with her free Palestine stance, Like that right,
she shouldn't have her career ruined for it. Anything to
add to that.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Now, that's pretty much it. I think. I think this
younger generation of star celebrities and artists, they are you know,
they're given this power right away with to speak out,
to do everything they're they're gett empowered, you know, easily,
very quickly because of the numbers they have all the
other people following them. But they're not prepared to embrace that.

(23:59):
And that's you see people like Chevarone, you know, snapping
at it because you know, like because she she's not prepared,
she's not sure yet if that's what you want. But
at the same time, you know, she goes on a
podcast and says the saying she says, so it's complicated.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
It's complicated. All right, we'll be ready to hear all
your anger saying. We're going to take a short break
and we'll be back to talking about The White Lotus.
We're back, and now we're going to talk about that Banali.
We have been not loving season three of The White Lotus,
and the last time we were two weeks ago our

(24:37):
last podcast, I just came right out and said, I
don't like this show. And I'm tired of pretending that
I do.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
So, knowing that I don't like this show, I guess
you can take everything that I'm about to say about
it with a grain of salt. And I know you
liked it a little bit more than me, but even
you were unhappy with how it wound up.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
I went from loving the show to liking it. I
still like it.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
I went from I'm hating it at the end of
it now I still like it. Okay, So let's unpack
everything that happened in the finale, starting with should we
start with the shootout or should we work our way
up to it?

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Maybe?

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah, all right, let's start with the three girlfriends then right, right, okay,
Michelle Monahan, Carrie Coon, and Leslie Bibb. They have been
a joy to watch all season. They have been far
and away the best part of the season. However, Leslie
Bibb said in an interview that she was afraid that
people were going to think it was that their storyline

(25:38):
was boring, Like we even the actresses are saying that
that was the problem. They were the best thing about
the season because they're the best actors on the cast.
I think like you know, Walton Goggins is a great
actor too, but they had nothing. There was nothing going
on there. And then here is my problem, one of
my main problems with this season of The White Lotus

(25:59):
is it never took anything as far as it was
supposed to go. There was never a resolution, nothing ever
really went anywhere. And this was how it felt with
these three women. It was just, you know, it was
and I get it, like if you want to do like, oh,
it's just just a little snapshot, a little portrait of

(26:21):
an old friendship and it's being tested. And then they
all went home that it didn't need to have a
big plot to and I get that, but I also
feel like the resolution quote unquote, because there really wasn't
much of a resolution, was so unearned. I think so
much of this final episode was so unearned. So Carrie

(26:42):
coon Laurie has a fight with the other two women
the previous week, and she goes off and she has
a little sex adventure with one of the Russian guys
which goes very very badly in a very humiliating way
for her. We get no insight into how she feels
about any of that, because there's never a scene of

(27:04):
her discussing it or unpacking it, or we see scenes
of her just her face, like she's looking at her
two girlfriends in the pool, but we don't know what
the fuck she's thinking, so we have to keep assuming
we know what she's thinking or whatever. So then they
go to Oh and then you know, I don't remember

(27:24):
all their names. Michelle Monaghan's character comes to her bedroom
Jacqueline and wakes her up and says, I want to
be friends. And we don't know how she got to
that point. How did you get to that point? You
were fighting and now you Isn't there something we need
to see these emotional changes? Okay? And then they go
and have dinner, and then each of the other two women,

(27:47):
Jacqueline and what's Lezi Bibbs's character, Oh, Kate, Kate, Okay.
They literally sit there and talk about how wonderful their
lives are and how blessed they are and how happy
they are. And this was the kind of stuff that
you saw all season long. Was setting Carrie coon off
and it was making her furious the way they just
constantly talked about how wonderful they were. So she gives

(28:11):
this speech, and I got to say, when Mike White's
hitting on all cylinders. Goddamn. He can write, Yes, he
can write, and he'll write something that is so like profound,
and it hits me so deep in my heart. And
when she said that line about I don't need religion,
I have time. My life has meaning because of time,
I'm like, I'm going to get choked up. It's it
was such a good monologue and she was so good

(28:33):
in delivering it, and I was sitting there going, how
did she get to this point? She hated these bitches
the whole time. She said, she was sad all week long,
and then she ends the monologue with like, you know,
it's so meaningful what I have, And I'm like, I
don't I think you could get to that point with
those three women. I really do think you could get

(28:53):
to that point. It was unearned and I read something
among the many reviews. I read this more and it
snapped right into place. If she gave that speech after
the shoot after the shootout, it would have made like,
oh my god, we were in this horrific moment together
and I realized that I actually do value you, and

(29:14):
that speech actually would have made sense.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
But they're all like laughing on the we never saw
them after the As I think it was Alan Seppenwall
pointed out in his review, they never said another line, right,
they're they're involved in this horrific mass shooting that happened
literally right in front of them.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
Like Michelle Monaghan was posing with pictures with these people
right when the shooting happened, and they ran away, and
then the next thing we see is the three of
them laughing and hugging each other on a boat. Okay,
And all I could think was Michelle Monahan would be
on a phone with her business agent because those pictures
are going to hit the world. She like imagine if

(29:50):
Jennifer Adiston was involved in a mass shooting time, she
would not like shrug it off and leave with her girlfriends.
She'd be like, oh my god, we need to manage this,
my career whatever.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
But that's not never the point of the show. No,
I the girls, No, I totally agree with you. I
think the girls uh bit was my favorite part of
the show because they are a three phenomenal actors.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
They are they are.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
They all brought something interesting and and as you said, Mike,
what can write, he can write? He can write. There
are some bits that I absolutely love, he observes, well,
he does. No, It's kind of like Ryan Murphy type
of thing that you create something great, but then you

(30:35):
don't know how to develop it. Uh so, so I
I agree, Karen Kun was amazing, you know, but that
was it. That was I mean, you spent the whole time,
the whole week, you know, not taking any bullshit from
the other two, Like I mean you really, you know,
got annoyed with him all the time, right, and.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
With relatively good reason. The shallow they're they're full of
shit and like you, you all of.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
A sudden you change and everyone loves everybody. Anyway, I
still love them. I thought they were great. But again,
Floyd everything, it's Floyd. So that's number one. Let's move
to the family.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
That's a big one, Okay, the right left family. There
was no point to this storyline either. There was literally
no resolution to it whatsoever. We saw the father, Jason Isaacs,
just pop pills and try and avoid reality as much
as he could. And at the end of that story

(31:34):
it ended before we ever saw his family deal with
like none of it, none of it, none of it.
The whole storyline was how do I keep my family
from finding out that their lives are over and we
never actually see the revolution of that.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Nothing makes sense. I mean the mother literally it's saying
I will kill myself if I don't have money, but
we don't see any kind.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Well, I guess we're just supposed to assume, Okay, they're
going to sail off into ruin.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah, I guess, I guess. And then the whole Blender
thing was just so off. Yeah, because nobody gets sick
except the kid the next day, Okay, all right, we're
just gonna have to go with that, which made no sense,
just the whole thing, I mean, and I find it
very lame in terms of writing, because you give a

(32:19):
little bit, you know, you pretend that you're going to
go there, and you don't.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
Can I just address this? This is another big problem
I had with this season when and the pace and
the plotting of this season is there was just so
much time wasted. I mean, what was the point of
Jason Isaac stealing the gun and Gayetok trying so hard
to get the gun and then he just got the
gun back and that whole storyline was cut off. So
why did we waste time on that same thing? With

(32:45):
the friggin blender where he First off, we've been waiting
all season for him to do this. They talked about
the poison seeds in the first episode, fine, but then
they dragged that out, even for I was so checked
out at that point where he got there the seeds
and he pulverizes them in the blender, and then he
puts the blender away, and we find out later that

(33:06):
he's doing that because he's planning a whole murder. So
I thought he was just trying to kill himself, So okay,
that gets delayed. And then they go out to dinner
and then he asks for peanut colada mix and then
they go back and then he mixes it, and then
he pours the drinks, and all of this is depicted
because they are stretching this moment out as much as possible.
And then he hands out the drinks and then everybody

(33:28):
takes a sip in slow motion, and then he knocks
all the drinks out of their hands, and no payoff
for that, but he leaves the half, you know, the
poison blender on the countertop, and that's enough and then
that's where going to keep. And then the next morning

(33:49):
the family leaves and then the sun gets up, and
then he wants protein powder because his brother made him
feel like he wasn't a man. So then he makes
the thing, and then he drinks, and then he walks
outside and then he feels sick, and then he sort
of die and he has a vision of the monks,
and then he sort of dies, and then he fucking
doesn't die. And I hate to be bloodthirsty here, but

(34:13):
the only literal only way that whole Ratleft family storyline
would have worked is if he died at the end.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Yes, I agree, I totally agree.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Pulling that away someone you never saw it, but someone
mentioned the finale to Rent, and I burst out laughing
because the character is supposed to die at the end
of Rent and then they suddenly get much better. It's just, now,
what's the point of this family's story? What was the point?
Like the daughter, Oh, she wants to you know, but
she's actually a spoiled breath, which actually I thought that

(34:45):
was kind of cute and funny. I didn't expect some
major resolution. What was the point of Patrick Schwarzenegger. I'm sorry,
what was the point of that? Like Chelsea gives him
books and suddenly you know, he's and I really thought, Okay,
that's kind of a twist. He's going to leave this
vacation more enlightened than when he left. But they never

(35:06):
touch on it except he briefly has a conversation with
Chelsea about the book, right, and they do show him
reading on the on the boat as they're leaving, and
I guess that's it. That's growth or what what is
that we never saw? I know what that was? What
was the point of the interst really? What did that add?

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Shock?

Speaker 1 (35:24):
What did that add? So the whole internet, we talk
about it, So the whole internet, you take that away? Yeah,
and that nothing about that that story changes. It was
completely on the Sorry, that's I think that's typical. Mike
White is like, all right, what can I do to shock?
That's a very Ryan Murphy thing.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
Yes, and also a Ryan Murphy. I mean they're all
like doing kind of the same thing, which is kind
of annoying because I thought, Michael, what was a bit
above more? Yeah? But no, we're getting there, and and
the show is a huge success. We'll get to that.
Everyone loves the show. A few people criticize it, like us.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
No, there's been some. I mean, I think generally the
consensus is that this season is the worst and this
phinope was terrible.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Well so, anyway, the family thing, so I thought it
made no sense why the kid is the only one
getting sick after the next day, and then I thought
he was going to die And that was that was
the only moment while I was watching, was like, oh, wow,
this is actually good.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah, okay, I'm that's brave.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
I feel terrible for the kid, but it's good.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
That's that's really good story. That's tragedy. Like that's how
you write a tragedy.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, and the whole thing made.

Speaker 1 (36:31):
Sense, and it made sense, like the father spent all
that time trying to protect him because he thought he
was the innocent son and hey like when he was
when those eyes opened up, like it was so close
in on the eyes, I was like, those better not
be Lachlan's eyes. Those are not Lachlan's eyes. Which whose
eyes are those? So Parker POSI did she have an arc?

(36:56):
Did did that character go anywhere learn anything, doing anything?

Speaker 2 (37:00):
No, she has nothing on the internet.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
And that was the point is that general memes she
was the Jennifer Coolidge of Jennifer Coolidge's character actually did
go on an arc, just a pointless family, a pointless
storyline that went absolutely nowhere, and he just wanted the
opportunity to write those two got you know, two brothers
jerking each other off like that. That was it. That

(37:24):
was all of it, pretty much going to the monks
and all. None of that paid off. None of that mattered.
A no, it just didn't matter. I I think we'll
wait on reckon Chelsea until the end of this discussion,
but I do want to note that I thought it
was very strange that again Chelsea gets murdered. She spent

(37:49):
most of the season with Patrick Schwarzenegger and Charlotte Labon's character,
and we never see their reactions to her death whatsoever.
Now they're all shallow assholes. I didn't think any of
them would be shedding many tears over it. And I
actually think the when we saw Charlotte Labon's character briefly

(38:10):
back with Greg and I think part of that was
to point out that she's just not a good person
and she's just a piece of shit herself. But just
dramatically speaking, when you form these relationships like Patrick Schwarzeninger's
character was becoming a more self actualized person because Chelsea
was working on him, and we see him leaving with

(38:32):
one of Chelsea's books, but we get nothing enough about
her death, zero reaction to it. What why would you
establish these relationships and then not pay them off? You
just and I mean, I guess maybe that's the point. Well,
they're on vacation. You know how you make friendships on
vacation You never see each other again. But I don't
even think that point.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
But how many vacations Witten's a crime.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Witness, like if someone gets murdered. Yeah, you know, I
just that was the thing about the way the story
ended was you got no emotional sense of any of
these characters after everything that had happened. You just never
got to hear or see how they felt about what
had just happened. You spent the entire season leading up

(39:14):
to this moment, it happens, and then the season ends
immediately with absolutely zero aftermath or reflection by any What
that is?

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Just?

Speaker 1 (39:22):
What kind of writing is that?

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Right? I actually mentioned to you while we were watching
the finale. Then I can see this as a two
hour movie, but a whole season of this.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
I could see it. The first season of the show
was six episodes. I could see it as a six
episode season. I still think there would have been plotting issues.
But I mean, god, everything was so friggin dragged out,
just so dragged out, and nothing happened the whole thing
with Rick. Let's get to Rick. Now that's the last

(39:52):
of it. We still have Belinda, we gay Lock, we
have all of that. Okay, Actually, let's take a break
or sure, yeah, let's take a short break and then
we'll come back. All right, we're back talking about the
finale of the White Lotus. Let's dive into the gay
talk and Mook story. We said last week or in
the last episode of this podcast that if you look

(40:17):
at Mike White's writing with a critical eye, he's not
great about how he writes the staff people at these things,
especially when he's writing non white staff people. He's not great.
He wasn't great about that in the first season with
the Hawaiian staff members. I remember the one guy got
framed for murder or whatever.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah, I think he's trying to make a point here that.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
I think he's doing it clumsily.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Yes, I think he's trying to make a point here.
And when I watched the first season, I was actually
very I was kind of horrified that we, the non
white people were treated plot wise everything. And then I'm like,
oh god, but that I mean, Belinda, I mean, we
were devastated.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
I do want to say, but okay, let me.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Just finish my thoughts here. But then I understood that
what he was trying to say is that white people
are assholes and they have no shame, no no regret,
no guilt, no nothing. They go home and you know,
and that's it.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
That's what I thought he was saying.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Well, yes, that's what I thought season one, and then
we get season two, and then we get season three,
and I'm like, all right, you just don't care about
the other people.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Let me just jump in. When season two started. That
was one of my problems with it was that I
felt that season one was an examination of white privilege,
especially it wasn't it was especially about white privilege. And
then the second season they're in Europe, and I was like, well,
that kind of just obliterates the whole white privilege thing.

(41:45):
And I do think he's not great when he's dealing
with non white staff people, but I think this season
drove home the point and last season because he was,
you know, kind of looking down his nose at things like,
you know, sex workers and stuff like that. He's not
great about just staff people, just people who work on

(42:08):
the staff, Like all the Russian guys were scumbags, and
the German guy wanted to sing and he was some
weird little SICCO fan who got pushed into the water.
At the end, nobody gets fully realized stories among the staffs,
and that the stories that they do get are condescending
their criminals or their fuck ups. I mean, Gaytalk is
a fuck up. And it turns out that Mook is like.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
She's awful, she's greedy.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
She's also the kind of girl who thinks her boyfriend
should be violent, Like she's not good for him at all.
And so the whole thing became distasteful because it's this
white guy writing about staff people who are just fuck
ups and assholes. And I'm like, what's the point here.
I thought this was, you know, white privilege, and we're
going to get into that when we get to Belinda.

(42:53):
But so, okay, Gaytalk gets his moment. I'll say this
when we get to the climent of this story. So
much was built up effectively, like Gaytak got a moment
to shoot rick in the back, and we spent all
seasons setting up that moment. It was I will say
that that was kind of earned. He had all this

(43:13):
pressure on him, so Fortala's bodyguard spent all season making
fun of him and emasculating him, and the two of
them got killed like that. And you know, then he's
got his pseudo girlfriend who's leading him along, and essentially
she she flat out told him that she thinks men
should be more violent, that violence is a good thing,

(43:36):
and that she wasn't going to continue dating him if
he and he was like on this path, like he
wanted to embrace Buddhism and pacifism, and he wanted to
quit his job. And in the end he got to
shoot a man in a back and he got to
he got a promotion and a girlfriend out of it.
And there's something darkly twisted. And I don't think, I

(43:57):
certainly don't think he needs to portray the staff members
or the non white people as these sort of elevated
moral you know, not at all. But it just it's
I think he has deluded his points so much. Let me,
let me just bring in Belinda, and then I promise
I'll shut up Belinda Okay, So Belinda gets her five

(44:19):
million dollars and porn Chai and she breaks Pornschaye's heart.
And the last scene of her is going off in
her boat while he stands there waving and watching her
leave after he had hoped that they would start a
business together. And this is of course supposed to mirror
exactly what happened to Belinda when Tanya did that to her. Right,

(44:42):
that left such a bad taste in my mouth, because again,
if you left that alone, that was a great example
of white privilege coming in and fucking up the lives
of people, you know, non white people around them, and
them having to pick up the pieces of their life
and move on. That was what Belinda's story was. And
now you're saying, oh, it wasn't that. The story is

(45:04):
really that money corrupts everyone, right, And that is the
point to gaytok story as well, is that he was
leading himself towards like Buddhist nerd, you know, with Nirvana
and I would be mixing up my religions, but he
was leading him towards enlightenment, to the sort of a
pacifist enlightenment and realizing this life wasn't for him and

(45:27):
then he got a chance to kill someone, he got
a better job out of it, and all of his
principles went out the window. And I thought this was
a show about privileged people, not about unprivileged people making
hard choices about themselves, like personally, okay, and then I'll
toss Tanya treated Belinda like shit. She was an asshole.
I hated her in that moment. Belinda, she didn't known

(45:50):
por Chi, she didn't owe porn Chai anything. She made
no promises to him, they had sex ones she was
in fact, they were infatuated with each other. And I
completely completely could anybody would argue with her and that like, no,
you need to go, you got your money, you need
to get out of Thailand. Yes, So this idea, this
like ironic idea that oh, money corrupts I'm like, no,

(46:12):
what does is? She was not corrupt, She's just being
smart and that's not the same thing as what Tanya
did to her. And I think you're kind of an
asshole for trying to draw that comparison. It doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
It felt like Mike White saying it's not about race,
it's about class, which is the kind of thing that
racists always say to deny that racism is this.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
I mean, his characters are always about people with privilege,
and everybody else is after them. If if you look
at the you know, none wide characters, they're always or
even the people I mean, well, second season had all
those Italians, you know, the prostate and everything. It's it's
always about these people, after the privileged ones.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Like the money, yes, like the dirty Russian.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Yes, there's always this segment that it's after the money
of those people who came to vacant, right, you know,
and so so it's always like this and there's it's not.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
As hell and it ruins, it goes against the Well,
here's the thing. I think after three seasons, it's time
to say, this is not a show about privilege at all.
It's really just we're gonna watch really wealthy people in
a really wealthy resort and they're all going to act
like assholes, and some of them are going to get
you know, payment for that. But that's it. That's it.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
It's everybody else is after their mind.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
It's just the love boat, it really is. It's prestige
love boat. They bring in a lot of stars in
an exotic location, very little happens and then they all
go home.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
I mean it's it's just I know, it's like Lisa's character,
for example, Look, why don't show her her live her
mother things about her?

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Too many characters in there to even.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
I know, but you had eight episodes of nothing.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
I totally agree, So why know, I give these.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
People a little more you know, story, so that we can,
you know, understand them a little bit better. But it
always Yeah, it's it again. I think the show. The
show relies on great performances, you know, and locations, and
that's why, I mean, that's why I watch it. But

(48:17):
in terms of story, in terms of yeah, I mean
it just do it doesn't make sense. A lot of
things don't make sense.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
All right. Let's go into Rick Rick Yes, okay, so
uh just just we're never told what Rick ever did
for a living. Yeah, although we if he can afford
that place, then he's got money, and he obviously has
a criminal background because of his experience with Sam Rockwell.
So whatever that guy's experience is, I would have expected

(48:46):
him to act a little smarter during this whole thing.
Let's go back to last week where he and Sam
Rockwell go to Sirtala's house and pose as producers and directors.
Neither one of them did so much as a minute.
Everybody on that aren't you like hit men or whatever,
whatever the hell you aren't neither one of them. I mean,
it made for a very funny scene. Sam Rockwell is

(49:06):
just hious. You can just watch I can just watch
that guy. They'll do anything, and I'll just sit and
watch him. But I was like, this is kind of dumb.
This is kind of dumb. And then he goes and
he has his moment with his father, because we all
freaking knew that guy was his father, you know, chickens
out on killing him, and the two of them leave

(49:27):
and they run off. Okay, Thailand, your girlfriends at the
hotel that these people own, the people that you just
assaulted and ran away from, and then you go and
party with Sam rack And I'm like, all right, I
guess that he's just in this nihilistic mode where nothing
meant or whatever and he's not thinking. But then then

(49:48):
he goes back to the hotel and he didn't just
grab Chelsea and say we gotta get the fuck out
of here.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
No breakfast, Yeah, they're having breakfast. Everybody on the freaking
Internet is talking about that. It's like he makes news.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
And then why why is I can't remember the guy's
name who plays his father?

Speaker 2 (50:08):
I can't remember?

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Why is he just like, oh ha ha, you think
you're such a big deal. I'm a ninety year old
with a gun. Just try me. And I'm like, what
the fuck is this? What is this?

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Well, first of all, why.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
Didn't he just say this man assaulted me, get him
off the property?

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Right? Well, first of all, they left the house and
nothing happened to them. Nobody went after them, look for them,
call the police, nothing, get arrested. Nothing. Oh and then oh,
by the way, okay, we're done here. I'm just gonna
go back to the hotel and have breakfast with my girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
With my girlfriend. Yeah, what everything about that new? The
whole thing with him spiraling out of control, it was earned.
I felt like we had been waiting for this moment
to happen. In fact, we kept avoaiiting it. It was
once again Mike White stringing this out again and again
and again. So that actual turn where he goes and

(51:00):
that's the guy and kills the guy. I'm like, no,
that makes sense. Chelsea dying from a dramatic standpoint, I'm like, yes,
that makes sense. In fact, with him chickening out on
killing Lachlan, I'm actually I hate to say this, but
I'm actually glad he killed off Chelsea, Like there needs
to be some dramatic consequences of everything that's going on here.

(51:21):
And if it's just Rick dying at the endmal, I
actually don't give a shit about Rick, right, Chelsea dying hurt.
It hurts the audience. But it was also you could
see it coming from a mile away. There was so
much foreshadowing about Chelsea dying. So you know, I didn't
actually mind the resolution of that story. I just hated

(51:41):
the way it played out. I hated the lead up
to it. None of it actually made any sense. And
you know he's standing there over the guy's dead body
and Sir Tala says, he is your father, right. I
don't even know where to start with the questions on this.
Not granted, there's no reason to think that those people

(52:04):
wanted to know his son, there's no you know, there
didn't have to be an elaborate sort of explanation or anything,
But why did any of you act this way? When
did you know he was his son? When he showed
up pretending to be someone else or did you all
put it together after he assaulted him. I guess so
because he mentioned his mother's name. Why are we not

(52:25):
seeing any of this? Why? I know why we're not
seeing any of this because we want the quote unquote
shock moment of Stala saying he is your father. But
every single person figured that out weeks ago. I don't know.
I just think he gets Mike White, gets too much
money and too much freedom, and he goes off to
these resorts for six months with all of these hot

(52:46):
young guys. Have you seen the pictures behind the scenes
gay Instagram?

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Yeah, it's like firelence.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Anyway, I totally agree, I think, and the show is
very popular. Everyone talked about it. I mean, at least
the audience, the viewers, and I feel like, and it's
not going anywhere.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
There'll be a season.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Oh, there'll be a season four or five and six.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
And I think Sam rock Well will probably get an
Emmy nomination. But that's it. Oh carry coon, yeah, carry yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
But the show, Yeah, they'll keep going and and Mike
White will keep going. The funny thing is, I really
want to mention the composer of the theme song. Yeah, yeah,
I do want to talk about that because it's very
telling and very funny, and because I'm a musician, I
thought it was very funny. The composer, the White Lotus

(53:37):
theme song composer, his name is Constabul Topy of the Viers.
I guess he's also Dutch. He is from Chile. He
was interviewed by the New York Times and it's very funny.
The interview is funny. I'll tell you why it's funny. First,
because the interviewer had no idea what he was about
to say. He dropped this bomb that it was went

(53:58):
viral and it was all over the internet. Initially she
was going to interview him to talk about the theme
because people were very mad. I'm sure you guys read
something about it. People were very mad that the theme
song for the third season was different from season one
and two, and people were in love with this with
the song, you know, going like no, la la la la,

(54:20):
you know all that stuff. And and I was actually
talking to him about it as a musician. When I
watched season one. The first thing that you know, caught
my attention was how wonderful the theme song was. I
thought it was extremely creative beautifully you know, performed and
everything about it was just perfect. I was like, this

(54:41):
is such a great song for this type of show anyway.
But apparently the Cristalbo doesn't want to return because he
feels like, you know, he got into fights apparently with
Mike White or agree, you know, they disagreed. And I understand,

(55:02):
you know, when you have creative minds. I mean, I'm
sure he's a very talented man, and so he's Mike White.
You know you're getting you get into fights, you get
into arguments, you know, because you have your vision and
he has his vision. I get all that. But apparently
Mike White didn't want that type of song to begin
with me.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
You never liked the music.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
He never liked the music. Apparently he wanted more like
a club type of music for the show, more like
European talent type of like you know when you go
to a club and sort of like my orc type
of you know, club music. And but he created that
song and it became I mean, everybody talks about how
wonderful that song is. So he did the same thing

(55:44):
with season two and kept going, and then apparently he
did the same and then season three came and everyone
was met at the composer because apparently, you know, he
didn't follow the same way he did the you know,
season one and two, same time of composition. So so
everyone he talks about it, how people went after him,

(56:05):
you know, emailed him and harassed him, say, demanding an
explanation why uh, season three didn't have the same kind
of music. Uh. And he explained that he wanted that
type of music, but Mike White didn't want it, so
he cut the part that everybody loves uh from season three. Uh.

(56:26):
And he talks about it, and that's the part where
the interview from the New York Times had no idea
he was going to drop that and kind of like
you know, bomb and everyone talked about it because apparently
he wanted the whole thing and Mike, Mike White said no.
And my theory, I think what happened is, uh, Mike

(56:47):
White just got jealous of his fame because the guy
won all these Ammys. He he won like three Ammys
and the song was becoming like very very popular, just
as popular as the show. So I think Mike why
got a little jealous there, and that's why he cut
the hard from season three and the guy talked to
the producers, the you composer, Cristobol, he talked to the producers, everybody,

(57:08):
trying to convince them to have the whole thing, the
whole thing he composed, but they all kept saying no.
Mike White said absolutely not. And then he said, fine,
can I just can we just have it on the
internet so that people can listen to it and then
they can stop her arresting ah, and they again Mike
White said absolutely not. So because of that and other things,

(57:31):
he dropped. I mean, like, if you read the interview,
it's there, it's very clear that they got into major
fights and he doesn't want to come back and be
part of the show anymore.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
I think the bloom is off the Rose with Mike
White this season because I just think the rhetoric is
turning against him. There was this story, and then last
week he was on I don't even know the name
of the podcast, but it was some some notably anti
trans podcast and they were talking about Sam Rockwell's monologue

(58:02):
and the host apparently referred to what as auto gynophilia,
which is a term used to pretend that transgender identity
doesn't exist. That is just men with a fetish who
like to put on dresses and pretend to be women.
And you know, there was some discussion at the time

(58:25):
when that scene aired. Is Mike White saying that Sam
Rockwell is trans Sam Lockwell's character is trans? Or is
Mike White actually putting forth this idea of autoginoffiliate And
he said in the in the podcast laughingly, he said, yes,
it's autoginoffiliate. It's not He's not trans. And this actually
set a lot of people off, and also Carrie Coon.

(58:46):
And this is what's interesting is because I think people
like Leslie Bibbs saying her storyline was boring, and Carrie
Coon came out and said that her character had a
non binary child and there was a scene shot with
that child that was cut after or Trump got elected.
And so all this stuff is coming out now. And
I'm not going to make suppositions about Mike White's politics

(59:08):
or anything like that, but I do think he's uh drink,
he's drinking. Yeah. I think he's a typical controlling showrunner
who needs a writing stick. He writes all these episodes himself.
That's why he's coming in for so much criticism because
he doesn't use a writer's room, and he could freaking

(59:29):
use a writer's room very very much so because he
he doesn't. I think it's very clear that in terms
in this season especially, he doesn't really think through the
consequences of what his characters are going through. He just
has these moments that make for really fun, viral whatever,
but it's not It doesn't add up to an actual story.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
But it doesn't look good to go on anti transpeak.
I agree to go on a podcast and laugh along
with everybody else about something that should matter very much
that you presented on your show, that you wrote it,
you wrote that in and and then you're just laughing
along with everybody, pretending that it's you know, no big deal,

(01:00:10):
I don't know. And the whole thing with Kerry Can
also dropping that that you know, there was a non
binary right or or or trans, they even thought about
a trans child, and then they dropped the whole thing.
And that makes sense because if you look at She
also talked, I mean people, that's the thing. The show
becomes so big that everyone is talking about it, and

(01:00:31):
you know, you end up seeing something that you're not
supposed to say. She also talked about how how they
shot a lot more for those thenes with them h
and then he didn't use any of it. And that
makes sense now if you think about it, because I
feel very chopped.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
You know, great, the whole season seems very chopped, so.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
You can understand why certain things don't make anything or
needed more and maybe they shot more, we just didn't
see it. Anyway, I'll keep watching it because because I
love hotels, fancy hotels and fancy people by the pool
at hotels, and the clothes and the you know, the

(01:01:09):
fashion and all that. But yeah, I think the show
became too big, like several of them, and it Yeah,
it's just out of control. I think. I think you
can't put that back in the bottle.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
I also think it's just one of the shows. Succession
was like this. Although Succession was a quality product, I'm
not putting it down, but it reached a point where
it just became about all the viral moments, all the
memes that you could get out of it, and it
became and speculation it's all about, like, well, it's just

(01:01:42):
you couldn't talk about the show. You couldn't talk about
it in any critical way because people had become so
rapturous about it. Although like I said, I do think
the bloom is off the roads with Mike White. I
do think people there are a lot of people who
feel pretty let down by this season. Anyway, those are
our thoughts. Yeah, we'd love to hear your response to
any of those thoughts. So please, if you're on our site,

(01:02:04):
go into the comment section let us know, or you
can drop us a line and let us know. We
will be back next week with no Severance or White
lotus to talk about. Who knows what we'll be talking
about last week, but whatever crosses our rise across our
desks until then, take care of usse I would love
you mean it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Bye bye bye,