October 8, 2025 • 45 mins
T Lo take a look at all of the drama and rhetoric surrounding the release of Taylor Swift's "The Life of a Showgirl" and how it speaks of a problem for all artists who reach an unprecedented level of success: Can billionaires even create art?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:24):
We're Tom Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest.
Hell look, and welcome back to another edition of the PSO.
I am the teen, You're Telo Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm
here with the loan and you te Lo Lorenzo because
my little husband. We are late once again with the podcast.
It's because of the the jackhammering and screwing going on.
I know that sounds really hot, but it's not hot.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
They're building a five story condominium behind us, and it's
also attached to the building that's semi attached to us,
so the noise is persistent and loud and ongoing.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
The life of two homoseexs.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yes, so we're a little sorry about that. And we
actually had a bunch of topics lined up to talk
about that have since become very dated, so we're not
going to wind up talking about them. That's the problem
with the podcast is if you don't do it, you know,
then the topics go stale very quickly. Because it is
a pop culture podcast. So we were going to talk
(01:22):
about the ri Odd Comedy Festival and the AI actress
that everyone's all you know, but you know what those
those conversations are already dead. We couldn't add anything new
to them, which is kind of an ironic thing to say,
because what we are going to talk about is probably
one of the most talked about topics of the month,
which is Taylor Sweatentry and Lorenzo. When it became obvious
(01:46):
that the planned podcast that we were going to do
was the topics are starting to become a little stale,
Lorenzo said, why don't we do well? Actually, last week
when we were doing coming up with topics for the
podcast came up and I was like, I do not
want to rant about Taylor. I don't want to do
(02:06):
a podcast where it's two middle aged guys ranting about
songs that were not written for them, about a pop
star that is not gearing her image. I mean, we're
not the fan base. And I didn't want to do it.
And we you know, there was a period there where
we were like, let's not do another podcast where we're
ranting about some woman because a lot of the topics
(02:27):
we talk about they're gay pop culture topics, so it's
a lot of the of you know, there are a
lot of women performers and women fashion and that sort
of thing. And then there was a point at which
where I think it was after the Sydney Sweeney one
where we were like, let's not talk about a woman
for a while. But it is, you know, one of
the biggest stories of the week of the month Taylor,
(02:50):
the release of the Life of a Showgirl, Taylor's newest album.
And I think here's what I am not a I'm doing. Oh,
I should say right now, I'm dominating the microphone right
now because I'm turning this entire podcast over to Lorenzo
in a minute. Not entirely, but I have said this before.
(03:13):
I have trained, we have trained ourselves to be able
to write about fashion and film and television and celebrity
and public image and all of that stuff. But the
one thing I absolutely do not ever want to write
about is music critique because I don't have the language
for it. I don't have the background for it. So
(03:36):
I never ever feel comfortable talking about music in a
critical way.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I am also not going to critique this album because
I've listened to it all the way through once. It's fine.
It's not written for me, so I'm not here to
debate the quality of those songs. Although I am going
one of the things I am going to talk about
is the response to this album, which was, you know,
(04:02):
a little different. Yeah, well, you know, it's not usual
for a Taylor album to get this kind of mixed response.
I am more interested in the cult of Taylor, the
image of Taylor, the celebrity of Taylor, and how she
manages all of that. And I have to say she
does manage it. I mean, if nothing else, the lady
is a financial genius. But Lorenzo is a musician and
(04:29):
he did want to talk more about some of the
issues that have come up around it. And of course
he is a TikTok user, so I know he's been
following all of these arguments on TikTok this month. So
this is I'm just laying the groundwork here. It's it's
not going to be a trashing Tailor hour. If that's
what you tuned in for. I really hope. I hope
it wasn't, but I do personally. The last week has,
(04:54):
you know, had me pondering things like fandom and whether
the the the fandom revolution has has finally ended, because
I do think there are some indications that it has.
But that's my intro. I am going to toss to
Lorenzo and let him take over for a little while
and I'll try not to interject too much.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Right, Well, Taylor Swift, we talked about should we talk
about Taylor Swift? But you know, Swift just gave an
interview where she said because there's mixed reviews about the album,
So she gave an interview recently and she said, I
welcome the chaos her words. I you know, if you
(05:35):
have my if you mentioned my name, if you mentioned
the name of my album, it's you're helping. So we're
helping here.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
We're helping. You're welcome Taylor.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
You welcome Taylor Swift. I think Tello Swift is on
a level that you know, it's it's it's insane that
you don't talk about her. You can't talk about how
you of course you haven't talk about her. She's an artist.
She produces art which is public and also a product music.
So yeah, you're going to talk about what she produces.
(06:07):
I think you're allowed to, even if you're not a
fan of her music.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
You have to.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yes, even if you're you're not a fan of her music,
if you reach that level of success and fortune with
your career, with your talent, I mean, yes, people are
going to talk about you, and I feel like I
can talk about her. I am also a musician, and yeah,
and that's all everybody talks about. It's her career, her music,
(06:33):
her personal life. I don't want to get into her
personal life. I'm more focused and more fascinated by the branding,
but by you know, the fandom, by all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
That's the stuff that interests me.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, that's what interested me more. I want to start
by saying that when the news came out that she
was writing a new album called the Life of a Showgirl,
I actually got very excited about it because I'm a
huge fan of showgirls in general. I love the topic
(07:09):
and it's been done and in Linux did I don't
know if you guys remember Andy Linux did a video
a long time ago of one of her songs called why,
and she's dressed like a showgirl and she looked phenomenal.
It was the time when MTV MTV videos. It was
at MTV. Yeah, I was doing all these incredible videos
and she has this incredible costume. Anyway, and then the
(07:31):
movie of course, we can how can you not? When
she announced that she was going to have an album
called the Life of a show Girl. Immediately I thought
of the Last Showgirl movie with Pamela Anderson, which I
don't think is a coincidence. Maybe she saw the movie
maybe and got inspired by it.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Can I just jump in. We did talk about this,
I think on the podcast before about that connection, and
I just want to reiter read something I believe I said. Maybe.
Sometimes it's hard to tell whether we've said this privately
or I set it into a microphone. You had a
problem with that connection to the Last Showgirl, and I
felt like artists, especially pop artists, they can take inspiration
(08:13):
from from a movie that came out the year before.
I don't think that's a terrible no, that's my interjection.
If she took inspiration from that movie, it doesn't really
bother me. If she denies that she did, I'll probably
roll my eyes.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
That's the thing. When you have that level of fame
and success, you can do things like that and not
even acknowledge and people don't even understand where it's coming from.
I mean, it's very hard for me not to think that.
You know it has something to do with the movie.
You're watching things, you know you're right, and you've seen
things out there. Although she claims that she she's never
(08:49):
on social media or online, I don't believe which I
don't believe that for a second. And I'll get to
that when we get to.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
The woman has alts, I know, and she's online constantly.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
So anyway, I I it's very hard for me not
to think about the movie. So anyway, when when she
announced the album The Life of a show Girl, I
was like, Wow, this is awesome. This could be great
because maybe she's finally gonna produce an album of a
more mature woman, you know, of someone you know, of
(09:21):
a certain age that it isn't fifteen years old. I
don't know. I just felt that, Okay, maybe this is
the album that she's gonna, you know, expose herself a
little more. That's how I felt based on the Life
of a Showgirl title, and a lot of people felt
that the title, the promotion, the all the statics, with
(09:42):
all the pictures and everything, the costumes she wears on
the cover of every variant has nothing to do with
the album itself. The music does not, you know, the
music has nothing to do with the concept, with the
concept of a show girl. That's me and a lot
(10:02):
of people so I kept following every news because I
was like, all right, I'm interested. And let me just
say I'm not a hardcore fan, but I do like
Taylor Swift. I listened to her a lot at the
gym working out, and I've always liked her music in general.
I don't think she's that great of an artist in
(10:25):
terms of musician, but I do think she's a great
pop artist pop music artist. I do think she has
a great talent. She can produce amazing things. Some of
her songs are great.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Can I jump in just I want to say, you
made a slightly dismissive comment about not writing like a
fifteen year old anymore, and oh, they're going to come
up to you for that, and I just want to
That's fine. You're allowed to have that opinion. But I
do feel that in recent years her work has gotten
more mature, and it's actually in racing years that I
(11:02):
like Folklore and the Torture Poe and all that. I
felt like she was finally coming into her own as
an adult artist. So I don't feel that. I wasn't
looking for this album. I wasn't looking for anything in
this album. But I didn't think this album was going
to represent a move forward in her maturity, because I
actually feel like that had already occurred.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Right, I'll get to the album later. I want to
focus a little bit on the whole promotion of the album,
even before they dropped, you know, she dropped the album.
I mean, I just want to talk about the branding
and the promotion of it, which I thought was insane.
And it's interesting to talk about it because I feel
like it's artists in general today because we have so
(11:45):
many ways of listening to a song now. I mean,
you know, you go online, you have your phone, you
have you know, it's not the old days when you
had a record and you played it. Now you have
so many ways to enjoy music. I feel like there
is an insane amount of product out there, and yes,
(12:06):
like this album. For example, even before she dropped the album,
she released twenty seven variants of this album, which is
insane to me.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Why don't we take a quick break and we'll get
into right, We'll come back and get into Taylor's money
making schemes, will be put a put a pin in that.
We'll be right back. We're back from the middle of
Lorenzo's rant, and he swear he wasn't gonna rant, But.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I'm not ranting listening a little bit. No, I'm trying
to bring topics and you know, issues so that people
can express their opinion. I mean, go in a comment section,
let me know what you think.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I do want to before you go into all of
her money making and the variants and all that stuff,
which is not stuff I tend to pay too much
attention to. I Okay, So this, this album has gotten
some fairly mixed to negative reviews. That's gotten some of
the most negative reviews of her career. I think, I
(13:08):
know the social media response to the album among her
fans was somewhat subdued, and some of them were actually
kind of annoyed by.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And I think I have a theory. I think there's
a reason for that, and we'll talk about that.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Okay. So well, there are two theories, and these are
two things that I kind of wanted to bat around.
Number One, is this a mediocre album because for the
first time she's really in love, happy in settling down,
which is possibly the truth, or this is the one
that's a little more likely. She's a billionaire. Billionaires cannot
(13:42):
create ort I hate to be no, actually, I don't
hate to be absolutist about them, because you know what,
they get to be billionaires. They it is nearly impossible
for someone with that amount of money and that amount
of influence, and Taylor has an unbelievable amount of influence
with her fans. That is power beyond power, beyond power.
(14:03):
And it's actually one of the things that really annoys
me about the rhetoric surrounding Taylor. I mean, you heard
us at the start of this podcast. We're like tiptoeing
around it, like, oh, we're going to talk about Taylor,
but we promise we're not going to be too many,
because she has a fandom that just is rabid and
will go after anybody the second they say anything about her.
And my point is that level of power and that
(14:25):
much money kills art, kills expression. You are not an
artist anymore. You are a corporation. You are a product,
You are in a figure a figurehead. And you know
I didn't use well, no, I have always felt this way.
I'm very much of the opinion that every billionaire is
a policy failure, Like billionaires should absolutely not exist. And
(14:48):
I realize it's not the same, like she isn't exploiting
workers in countries and she's not you know whatever, but
two billion dollars is two billion dollars and when you
reach that level, you're not gonna have anything interesting left
to say. That's the problem love Taylor. She is so
wildly successful that she is no longer an artist as
(15:09):
far as I'm concerned, Right, I'm gonna get in trouble
for that.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Oh anyway, yeah, I do feel that. Uh, I don't know.
I mean she went on and and and said that, uh,
this is diabo she always wanted write, which surprised me,
but anyway, that's what she said. And she talks about
the art, all the all the thought process going uh
to release the cover and all that, so it you know,
(15:35):
and I can't help but think about uh cover. Uh,
you know album covers you know in general, like like
how you know, you create something and most of the
time they're iconic that but you can't not for you
never forget that cover. You listen to that album so
many times, and you know there's always you always think
of the cover because they picked one picture, they picked
(15:58):
one cover to represent the at work. And I feel
like today and it's not just teless way you know
Sabrina Carpet did the same thing.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
They're doing it now.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
They're all doing it now. I don't want to just
blame Taylor, but you know, when you have twenty seven
variations of your that's just money grubbing of your album.
And I think just two were released were dropped, uh,
you know after she the album dropped. But everything was
(16:31):
every everything was for sale before you even listen to
any one of the songs. Yeah, I mean all these
variants were available on sale for just one day or
twenty four hours, forty eight hours, I mean without you
listening to anything.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
And it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And I'm trying to go back when I was young
listening to music as a teenager or something, and I
was like, I can't picture myself doing that. I'm sorry.
I'm I worship bat Shop Boys all my life, and
I can't imagine buying fifteen versions of their album even
before I listen to any song. No, I can't imagine
myself doing that. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Now, well you're not of that tender, I mean, yeah, again,
this goes back to we're not the audience for this, so.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
No, no, no, no, wonder these people sell millions because
that's what you do. I mean, it's twenty seven variants. Listen,
it's sixteen CDs, eighth vinyl, two deluxe CITs, a cassette tape,
and two digital downloads. That's twenty seven variations of the
same thing. And you can, and you know, you go
on TikTok. And of course her fans always say, well,
(17:34):
you don't have to buy all of them. Yeah, that's
easy to say. But if you are over a certain age,
and if you're young and you you know, I don't know,
you don't have to, you know, feed your family or whatever,
you will buy more than one version. I yes, maybe
you're not gonna buy the twenty seven versions, but you
will buy two or three, especially because someone the CDs
(17:56):
had jewelry, I know. And then I was freaking sweater.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I know.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Of the one of us about moving products.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
It's not about art, it's not about expression. It's about
as moving as much product as possible. It's about riling
up a fan base, fan base to spend as much
money as possible. And I feel like when a performer
reaches that level. And I say this as if this
is something common, it is not common. Taylor has reached
(18:24):
a level that almost no performer has ever reached. I'm
very comfortable saying, well, then you have. You have sacrificed
artistry for success, and that's that's a choice you made,
and I'm fine with it. But I'm not going to
pretend like you know, what you're doing right now is
quality work. And this guy, I wanted to say this point,
(18:44):
we tiptoe around and oh my god, her fandom and
you can't say anything about Taylor And this is what
annoys me the most is and we will get respond
We might not get it now because I'm going to
actually articulate this. If we were to do a podcast
about Taylor Swift and critical things about her album and
how it was promoted, we would get all of these
responses from people who claim that we're just two men,
(19:07):
two dudes, and we're punching down and we're ragging on
a woman. And I'm like, she is a billionaire, right,
she has power. I am never even going to touch
I am not punching down at all. I am the
little guy punching up here, not that I want to
punch or whatever like I think Taylor is. I don't
(19:28):
want to say she's harmless because I do actually think
this level of money grubbing over artistry is bad for
the culture. But her music is fine. And if it
was just about her music, I don't even think we'd
be having this podcast. But she, you know, she has
turned herself into a phenomenon. She has turned herself into
a product, and she has generated a fan base that
will just snatch up anything she puts out and the
(19:51):
end result is surprise, surprise. The work is mediocre.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Right, And you again, you can go back to the
point that you know, you don't have to do any
of these things. Yes, to don't have to do anything,
but that's what marketing does. Marketing makes you want to
buy things. Like another point about her, which I thought
it was awesome that she wanted to have her music back,
you know, all her music catalog back, and she bought
(20:15):
everything back, which is great, which is great. I think,
you know, as an artist, I can't imagine painting something
or you know, creating something, creating you know, making music
or whatever and not having any rights anymore to that artistry.
I think that's a horrible thing. And I think she
did a fantastic job. But at the same time, she
decided that she was going to to re record everything,
(20:37):
and of course that generated a lot of sale. People
were buying the same music, you know, re recorded, so
more money, more marketing, more promotion, more everything. Right, and
then back to this album specifically, a lot of people
on TikTok, there's several fans of her, of her saying,
(20:58):
you know, they're a little disappointed with all these all
these variants, all these mini options to buy. And then
people say, well, you don't understand. We have to have
all this stuff so we can understand the music. Because
every vinyl had a unique poem written by Tilla Swift. Yes,
so you had to buy all the vinyls to get
all the poems. Otherwise you just get one poem. Or
(21:22):
you know, you have to buy all the CDs so
you can collect all the jewelry because every jury meant something,
or the sweater because it's the orange sweater, the color orange. Anyway,
So it gets to what point, I'm like, all right,
where is the music in all this? Which is the
core here? You know, like I mean, isn't this about music?
(21:44):
You're creating music? So I find that very disturbing in
a way. And one of the things that surprised me
and disappoint me deeply was the fact that one of
the vinyl I think was the vinyl was sold exclusively
in at Target. You can only buy it at Target,
And given what we're going through right now and Target,
(22:07):
I'm actually surprised and disappointed that she made the decision
of letting that go. Okay, we're gonna I'm gonna sell
something at Target when you had, you know, when you
claim that you support the queer community, that you support
you know, trans people in all that, I mean, you
actually had a song shake it off with a bunch of.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Actually hasn't done much since then. I would not call
her much of a I understand, but but I find
nothing I'm defending. I find that disappointed. I mean, I mean,
I don't want to even get to the point. I
don't even want.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
To talk about the fact that she's dead silent about
a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Can I just talk to that for a second. Is
that I understand the point about Target, I really do,
and we haven't shopped in Target since last year, But
I feel like that's sort of holding her to a
standard that you're not holding other artists. I mean, a
lot of artists sell their records at Target. So I don't.
(23:02):
I'm just trying to bat around an idea here. I
don't have a fully formed thought because I just got
finished saying she has a level of power that most
pop stars can never achieve a level of influence, and
of course money money out the wazoo. So but on
the by the same token, I sometimes feel it's a
little I don't want to say unfair, but unproductive maybe
(23:24):
to go after Taylor for not being more political. It's
I know she has dabbled in it in the past,
she has made political statements, she has supported candidates in
the past, but I don't know. I just don't think
that's her role. I would love it if she rallied.
I mean, I wish she had rallied people for Kamala
last year, but maybe she did. I don't know. But
(23:46):
I do think sometimes these complaints old Taylor's not, you know,
speaking out more well most Sabrina Carpenter is not speaking
out either, like most of them aren't.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I agree, I don't. I don't expect people to talk
about Gazo, Israel or anything like that, or the political
city in our country right now. I don't expect people
I think, No, I don't think they have that obligation.
But you know, the Target thing, you have twenty seven variants.
I mean, maybe settle for twenty six and not drop
that one at target. That's my point. Do it silently,
(24:14):
you know, just don't do a Target thing, right, you
don't even have to talk about it. Just don't do
it quietly, because she's done that. She's done things quietly.
She has donated so much money to help people quietly
that you don't even know about it, all right, sometimes
you know because the fans find everything. But she's done
a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah, that's why I don't like to get into why
so why not? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
No, No, Target was a disappointment and I'm allowed to
say that. So so that's that was the whole thing
about the album, way before you even dropped. And then
it dropped, and then the first thing I thought was like,
all right, where's the show girl here?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Right?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
There is absolutely no show girl. I'm sorry, but there is.
There's a lot of dick, a lot of men saved
me and I'm in love, have a lot of money
and I don't know what to do with it. That's
what the album is about. And I was shocked because
I was expecting more more of the you know, behind
the scenes of a life show the life of a
(25:12):
show girl with a show girl, because she is a showgirl,
maybe not the Vegas type of show girl. I don't
want to I don't want people to think that I'm
expecting just the version of the showgirl from Vegas.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
But you know, an album about the life of being
a performer on stage on stage, it's not. I just
think she came up with the title and that well.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
That's the thing. The thing with the thing with with
Taylor Swift that I feel and a lot of artists
out there, is that they get they get inspired by
something and because they again, you know, we're so visually
fad these days, you know, like we see so much
that we get inspired by things, but they're not very
deep and so I feel like it was a disappointment,
(25:55):
and a lot of her fans are saying the same thing.
Not just me that all right, where's a shl here,
there's nothing about a showgirl. So that was disappointment number one,
especially because the visuals, the aesthetic, everything was very show girl.
You know, she dressed like a showgirl, a Vegas showgirl.
So anyway, so that was Disappointment number one, and then
(26:16):
you know, the album is just I was actually kind
of shocked because I will talk I don't want to
go through I don't want to talk about every song
because I really don't want to do that and it's
a waste of time. But I was surprised. The first
thing I was surprised is that there's a lot of
everybody's also seen the same thing. That every song starts
(26:38):
with the sound of a of a similar song written
by somebody else, Like you know, the beginning of every
song sounds like another song out there.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
And she's not crediting anyone.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
So the only thought before the album came out, I believe,
or just when the album came out, Father Figure. They
were talking about Father Figure, that Father Figure was inspired
by the song by what's his name, God, Camerim, George,
thank you, George, Michael So, and then she created the
you know, his state or whatever, and so there was
(27:11):
credit for that. But if you listen to all these
songs like the Fate of Aphelia, I mean the beginning
of it, I thought of Siya she Wolf immediately, and
then people are saying, you know, they can hear Jack
Jackson five the Jackson five and and what else Lord
a bunch of people in the beginning, and then people
(27:33):
were talking about is that simply uh or or is
that interpolation?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Simply is when you, if you don't know, sample is
when you get a portion of somebody else's song and
use it in your song without changing it. Just you
just get it and you put it in your song.
So that's simply interpolation is when you kind of recreate
that portion of somebody else's song into your song. People
(28:01):
are saying that it's none of that. There's all kinds
of claims out there that but people are surprised that
they can they can see, they can hear their songs
in the beginning of every song and that there is
absolutely no credit, which surprised me because Taylor is very
protective of her songs and people were even comparing to
(28:22):
Beyonce is saying, you know, people make fun of Beyonce
because Beyonce and when she writes a song or you know,
released the song, there's like a list, a long list
of credit, you know, for every song that she credits everybody.
So if you go and you check she didn't credit anybody,
there's no credit for any of these songs that people
(28:43):
are listening, So I don't know. I found that very
interesting because there's a whole story if you guys don't
know that. When Olivia uh Real she released hears her
song what is it? I forget the name of the song. Now,
Olivia rodre released a song and she went a line
(29:04):
or was interviewed and said that she was inspired by
Taylor Swift's cruse summer song. So immediately Taylor Swift team
went after her and she rushed some credit for Taylor Swift.
It was a big thing because Olivia Rodrigo said that
she meant no harm, that she was just inspired by
(29:26):
Taylor Swift's song and anyway, so there's all that going on,
so I'm surprised there wasn't any credit for all that stuff.
If you if you go and listen to every song,
you will immediately recognize something else. So that was one part.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
All Right, I'm gonna jump in, We're gonna take a
short break, and then we'll be back with more of
Lorenzo ranting.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
We're back and we're talking about Taylor Swift's latest album,
and I do want to bring something we're talking about
on the album in general, and as I said, I
don't want to go through every song. But there's another
song that everyone is talking about because apparently, uh she's
talking about another female artist, uh, Charlie x X, because
(30:13):
Charlie xx came out with an album and a song
that she mentioned Tela Swift. Uh So, but if you
listen to the song, if you listen to the album,
it's not a disc uh.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
She did say one she opened for Taylor Swift and
she said it was like playing for a stadium ful
of five year old which it's really funny but really
bitchy and.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Kind of true. Anyway, So when when in the beginning
of her career, that's what she did. She she opened
for Tayler Swift, and then she made that comment, which
I thought was hilarious. It's hilarious and she probably shouldn't
make that comment. I agree that probably puts Tyler Swift,
who never goes online to read anything. So uh so,
that was the beginning of it. And then she wrote
(30:59):
a song about her struggles with music, her struggles, and
it's actually if you listen to the song, she's been
very you know, she's being honest, and she's been very
She's been very honest about being a female artist, a
female musician and the pressure to have that kind of fame,
to have that kind of success that Tilli Swift does.
(31:21):
And I can see that as an artist, people comparing you,
you know, all these female artists being compared to tell
As Swift or Beyonce, you know that they expect that
level of fame of you as an artist. So she
wrote a song about that. Her insecurity is that, you know,
she felt that there was a lot of pressure to
be that person, to be that success, and so she
(31:43):
wrote a song about it. So now we have a
song that people are saying and I believe it is
about Charlie where Telli Swift goes a little mean about it, uh,
and I think she missed the point. Uh, But she's
very mean in the song, and there are songs like
that about it.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Can I just jump in on that one. I when
I heard about that song, I listened to it. But
when I first heard about it, I was like, really, Taylor,
you're still doing dis tracks at this age, Like come on.
And you know, there was a pushback against this sentiment
where people were saying because a bunch of people were
like isn't she getting a little too old for these
(32:24):
mean girl songs and these clapbacks? And you know, the
response to this was, I don't recall a lot of
people saying this last year when Kendrick was going after Drake,
And that's true. We were all very entertained by the
Kendrick and Drake feud, but it was about larger things
than you know, you dissing me or talking about me
(32:48):
behind my back, or you know, you married the band
member of the guy I dated, whatever. I do think
Taylor's clapbacks tend to be pretty childish. The Kendrick and
Drake one. I wouldn't say that they were covering themselves
in mature glory throughout that whole thing, but there were
legitimate beeps going back and forth, and they were you know,
(33:12):
I guess it was exciting to watch because it was
two artists who were being very open about it. And
that was the other thing is there was no question
who Kendrick was talking about. He would name Drake. Sometimes
these tracks where Taylor puts out these mean girl lyrics
and we all have to try and guess which girl
she's missing. That's the part where I'm like that is
you're thirty four, thirty five years old. That is like
(33:34):
eighteen year old behavior, and it all goes back. I
hate it. I'm a broken record on this, but again,
you're a billionaire. You are punching down. I don't care
how big Charlie XCX, she's nowhere's near as big as
you are. And I don't even care if she said
something mean about you. You are so powerful, so wealthy,
and so influential. The fact that you were going after
(33:58):
people for these slights. Again, this is an artistry. There
is no artistry in this, and I can't like Kendrick,
and especially Kendrick that was artistry, man, I mean, he
elevated that stuff to high art. This is just a bitchy,
mean girl track with no artistic value to it whatsoever.
It's just her settling scores and making money off it.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I'm actually I was actually shocked because there's another song
that people are saying and if you read the lyrics, yeah,
it sounds like it that she is talking about Travis
Kelsey's ex girlfriend. And if you read the lyrics and
things that Travis has said during interviews, that doth sound
like it. This is where I can so I don't understand.
(34:40):
There's another shit, there's another song that is pretty much
a high school whole drama again, and I'm like, you're
thirty four, why are we still talking about high school?
Really really well off? And that brings me to the
topic of her fandom. That's the issue here. I do
feel that, I do feel, honestly that Tylor Swift feels
a responseible ability and at the same time a desire
(35:03):
to create something that is more her. But I do
feel that she feels like the responsibility to write songs
for everybody. And her fandom goes from twelve to seventy five, right,
So it's very hard for any artist. I mean, name
an artist that will write something that will please someone.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Should be writing. I agree, thought that's true to her life,
her feelings instead of trying to fulfill a market slot.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
But you know, I have a niece and she's twelve,
and she was talking about the latest album, and you know,
I can't imagine my twelve year old niece talking about that,
you know, singing that she has a bigger dick or
that her boyfriend has a big dick, because it with
a lot of dick on here going on here in
the songs. Well, I mean, I'm not listen, I twelve
(35:49):
year old's talk like that. Lorenzo, I understand, but I
don't know. I feel that listen, I don't. People were saying,
why can't she talk about him? Why she why can't
she talk about his you know thing, he's Redwood.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I was.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Like, it doesn't bother me, but it's not your style.
I mean I expect that from Nicki Minaje or somebody else, Yes,
Serena Carpenter, I don't expect that for Taylor, from Taylor Swift.
And I'm I don't know. Maybe I need to be
ease and into it. I don't know. I mean just
it feels very sudden. So I feel that the album
(36:30):
is just another thing that she put out. And I
was surprised when she was being interviewed and she said
that she wrote the whole thing. Why she was touring,
you know, doing the era stour, which shocked me because
I was like, where did you find the time and
why are you rushing this? There's no need to rush this.
You just had the mega tour of the century. I mean,
(36:52):
there's nothing compared to that.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
And you just got engaged. Why don't you just slow down.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Why don't you just take a break and before you
write something else. There's no need to write something so quickly,
and I can't. Nobody, Nobody is that creative, NonStop nobody.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
She's a business. That's That's my only point. And I
that's why I turned this whole buck ass over to Lorenzo,
because I was, like, I have one point to say.
She is incredibly wealthy, and at that level, she is
no longer an artist, and this album is apparently very
clear on that that she isn't an artist anymore. She
produces songs that are directly related to her market, Like
(37:33):
everything is geared towards specific aspects of her market, of
the demographic that listens to her, and she weaponizes her
own you know, like whatever slights or faults that come
her way, and like, lady, you're super powerful and super wealthy,
people are going to have opinions about you, right, and
are you going to write a song every time someone
(37:53):
says something? That's that has always been my issue with
Taylor is that I do think she is a talented
songwriter and a talented performer. I think the vast majority
of her music is very, very listenable pop music. I
don't really have a lot of bad things to say
about her work up until now, but this to me,
I was like, this is the dividing line. She has
(38:14):
stopped being an artist and she's now a corporation.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
I think she can write wonderful things. I listened to
her and one of my favorite lines is when she sings,
my boy only breaks his favorite toys. When you think
about that line is so deep, man, she can be
an artist. Or when she says, dancing around the kitchen
in the refrigerator light, that is gold, man.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Yeah, that is gold those lines, that's a beautiful image,
beautiful imagery. And she does that.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
She's done that many many times. She is good.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I agree, she is good. I don't think you can
be good anymore when you're at her level now.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
And you can't be good all the time now with
that level of of you know, assembly line product, you know,
you just can't. I mean, at some point, nobody, nobody can't.
That's why. Now it's funny when Schappel Room came out
and she start you know, annoying everybody saying that you know,
this is my music. And then she annoyed a bunch
of people saying that you know I'm not putting another
(39:14):
album anytime soon. You understand why, you know, I'm giving
her a lot more credit now for saying that, because yes,
she understands that she can't produce you know what she
produced that made her so famous all the time, right,
So she needs a break. So I think that I think,
you know, you have to think about these things. And
(39:36):
I Taylor Swift recently got annoyed a few days ago.
She's she's almos annoyed. She got annoyed because people ask
her if she was going to stop writing music now
that she's with Travis Kelsey and annoyed, which is a
dumb question. But anyway, back to your point, I think
you can write great songs happy as a happy person.
I don't.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I don't know. Can you can even do it as
a wealthy person.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Yeah, but you need a you need time to think
and get inspired by all the things. I think and listen.
There's nothing wrong with her finding her man and finding
her you know Redwood.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
I think, personally, if this is what she wants, and
she I think it is what she wants, I think
she should go off and ride that man for the
next five years. Have a couple of babies and then
come back and write about where you are in your
life right now right. You don't need the money, you
don't need the exposure. So why not take a few
years to live this new You know this, if you
(40:34):
really are getting married and entering a domestic this is
a new thing for you, and it would it should
spawn a whole new take, all kinds of creative new
takes on your life. Like even Madonna she got when
she had her first baby. She was reflected in her
music and she Ray of Light came out after she
had her. So I think it might be good for
(40:55):
you to just take a couple of years off. I'm
not saying you need to go have babies, but if
that's what you wanted to do, go off and do that,
and just be in love and build that life with
all that friggin money the te of you have, and
then come back in five years with a new album.
She's not She's going to spit out another one in
eighteen months. Probably.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
I just think the whole thing was rushed. And you
know when she talks about the one is all this
research and she read Hamlet.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I just got the afeliate thing.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
I really want to talk about the Aphelia song, and
that's the only song I want to talk about. Talk
about is that she goes on and on about how
she read Hamlet, and she even joke said, well, Travis
Kelce doesn't read Hamlet, but I'll tell him what the
story is about.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Well, sounds like you don't know, honey, did you.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Read the story? Because the song has nothing to do
with Aphelia. Nothing, nothing.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
I mean, it's not some girl boss story.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
It's actually very offensive in a way because Aphelia is
such an important character and such a sad character.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Probably one of the most important women characters in Shakespeare.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
It just feels like, Oh, I went online and I
you know, I want to write a song about drowning,
and then and is saving me. So let me go
online and look for drowning pictures. Oh, this picture is cute.
That's affiliate. Okay, who's a Felia? All right, let's let's
find out who's affiliate. Oh okay, this is a good painting,
so maybe that will be my cover. So Ophelia, Okay,
(42:16):
Ophelia drowned because she was miserable. Okay. Oh, and then
she writes a song. Ophelia is a character that if
you don't know, go and read about her. It's, you know,
a character written by by Shakespeare and a Hamlet story,
a woman who was traumatized by her brother, her father,
and her boyfriend. Anyway, so a woman who couldn't do
(42:42):
anything wanted to reclaim her agency. She wanted so badly
to be able to think for herself, and she was
not allowed to. And it got to a point, to
make very short, drove her mad and she killed herself.
So Taylor Swiff says she was inspired by her and
write a song about a woman who you know, was
(43:04):
saved by a man, and she doesn't want the fate
of Aphelia. She wanted to be saved by a man.
Ophelia wasn't waiting for a man to save her. Ophelia
wanted a voice. So and then she talked about Ophelia
living in fantasy. No, Olivia, Olivia, Ophelia. Ophelia didn't leave,
She didn't live in fantasy. She was traumatized and couldn't speak,
(43:28):
couldn't have a voice. That what drove her mad. So
it's just like this light take on things that annoys me, shallow, shallow, shallow, dismissive,
and this service it's a the service. And when you
claim that you did all this research and blah blah
blah blah. So anyway, again, like Showgirl covers her, show Girl,
(43:50):
the album has nothing to do with it. Again, I
think she just to wrap this up. I think she's
extremely talented. I think she has great she has written
amazing things. I just think she needs to take time
to produce work, and.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
All artistry takes time, and she's not granting herself that
time because she feels pressure or constantly put out product.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
So it's not a great album at all. And her
fans are saying so if they're allowed to, when they're
allowed to. But I feel like, you know, take a break.
I know you can do a better job. I know
you can write great songs, but this isn't it at all.
And be happy with your redwood. Everybody wants a redwood?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Agree, all right? I think we've beaten us to death.
We'll be back next week with whatever across our eyes,
across our desk. Until then, take care of yourself, love
you mean it. Bye bye bye,
We're Tom Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest.
Hell look, and welcome back to another edition of the PSO.
I am the teen, You're Telo Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm
here with the loan and you te Lo Lorenzo because
my little husband. We are late once again with the podcast.
It's because of the the jackhammering and screwing going on.
I know that sounds really hot, but it's not hot.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
They're building a five story condominium behind us, and it's
also attached to the building that's semi attached to us,
so the noise is persistent and loud and ongoing.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
The life of two homoseexs.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yes, so we're a little sorry about that. And we
actually had a bunch of topics lined up to talk
about that have since become very dated, so we're not
going to wind up talking about them. That's the problem
with the podcast is if you don't do it, you know,
then the topics go stale very quickly. Because it is
a pop culture podcast. So we were going to talk
(01:22):
about the ri Odd Comedy Festival and the AI actress
that everyone's all you know, but you know what those
those conversations are already dead. We couldn't add anything new
to them, which is kind of an ironic thing to say,
because what we are going to talk about is probably
one of the most talked about topics of the month,
which is Taylor Sweatentry and Lorenzo. When it became obvious
(01:46):
that the planned podcast that we were going to do
was the topics are starting to become a little stale,
Lorenzo said, why don't we do well? Actually, last week
when we were doing coming up with topics for the
podcast came up and I was like, I do not
want to rant about Taylor. I don't want to do
(02:06):
a podcast where it's two middle aged guys ranting about
songs that were not written for them, about a pop
star that is not gearing her image. I mean, we're
not the fan base. And I didn't want to do it.
And we you know, there was a period there where
we were like, let's not do another podcast where we're
ranting about some woman because a lot of the topics
(02:27):
we talk about they're gay pop culture topics, so it's
a lot of the of you know, there are a
lot of women performers and women fashion and that sort
of thing. And then there was a point at which
where I think it was after the Sydney Sweeney one
where we were like, let's not talk about a woman
for a while. But it is, you know, one of
the biggest stories of the week of the month Taylor,
(02:50):
the release of the Life of a Showgirl, Taylor's newest album.
And I think here's what I am not a I'm doing. Oh,
I should say right now, I'm dominating the microphone right
now because I'm turning this entire podcast over to Lorenzo
in a minute. Not entirely, but I have said this before.
(03:13):
I have trained, we have trained ourselves to be able
to write about fashion and film and television and celebrity
and public image and all of that stuff. But the
one thing I absolutely do not ever want to write
about is music critique because I don't have the language
for it. I don't have the background for it. So
(03:36):
I never ever feel comfortable talking about music in a
critical way.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I am also not going to critique this album because
I've listened to it all the way through once. It's fine.
It's not written for me, so I'm not here to
debate the quality of those songs. Although I am going
one of the things I am going to talk about
is the response to this album, which was, you know,
(04:02):
a little different. Yeah, well, you know, it's not usual
for a Taylor album to get this kind of mixed response.
I am more interested in the cult of Taylor, the
image of Taylor, the celebrity of Taylor, and how she
manages all of that. And I have to say she
does manage it. I mean, if nothing else, the lady
is a financial genius. But Lorenzo is a musician and
(04:29):
he did want to talk more about some of the
issues that have come up around it. And of course
he is a TikTok user, so I know he's been
following all of these arguments on TikTok this month. So
this is I'm just laying the groundwork here. It's it's
not going to be a trashing Tailor hour. If that's
what you tuned in for. I really hope. I hope
it wasn't, but I do personally. The last week has,
(04:54):
you know, had me pondering things like fandom and whether
the the the fandom revolution has has finally ended, because
I do think there are some indications that it has.
But that's my intro. I am going to toss to
Lorenzo and let him take over for a little while
and I'll try not to interject too much.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Right, Well, Taylor Swift, we talked about should we talk
about Taylor Swift? But you know, Swift just gave an
interview where she said because there's mixed reviews about the album,
So she gave an interview recently and she said, I
welcome the chaos her words. I you know, if you
(05:35):
have my if you mentioned my name, if you mentioned
the name of my album, it's you're helping. So we're
helping here.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
We're helping. You're welcome Taylor.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
You welcome Taylor Swift. I think Tello Swift is on
a level that you know, it's it's it's insane that
you don't talk about her. You can't talk about how
you of course you haven't talk about her. She's an artist.
She produces art which is public and also a product music.
So yeah, you're going to talk about what she produces.
(06:07):
I think you're allowed to, even if you're not a
fan of her music.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
You have to.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yes, even if you're you're not a fan of her music,
if you reach that level of success and fortune with
your career, with your talent, I mean, yes, people are
going to talk about you, and I feel like I
can talk about her. I am also a musician, and yeah,
and that's all everybody talks about. It's her career, her music,
(06:33):
her personal life. I don't want to get into her
personal life. I'm more focused and more fascinated by the branding,
but by you know, the fandom, by all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
That's the stuff that interests me.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, that's what interested me more. I want to start
by saying that when the news came out that she
was writing a new album called the Life of a Showgirl,
I actually got very excited about it because I'm a
huge fan of showgirls in general. I love the topic
(07:09):
and it's been done and in Linux did I don't
know if you guys remember Andy Linux did a video
a long time ago of one of her songs called why,
and she's dressed like a showgirl and she looked phenomenal.
It was the time when MTV MTV videos. It was
at MTV. Yeah, I was doing all these incredible videos
and she has this incredible costume. Anyway, and then the
(07:31):
movie of course, we can how can you not? When
she announced that she was going to have an album
called the Life of a show Girl. Immediately I thought
of the Last Showgirl movie with Pamela Anderson, which I
don't think is a coincidence. Maybe she saw the movie
maybe and got inspired by it.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Can I just jump in. We did talk about this,
I think on the podcast before about that connection, and
I just want to reiter read something I believe I said. Maybe.
Sometimes it's hard to tell whether we've said this privately
or I set it into a microphone. You had a
problem with that connection to the Last Showgirl, and I
felt like artists, especially pop artists, they can take inspiration
(08:13):
from from a movie that came out the year before.
I don't think that's a terrible no, that's my interjection.
If she took inspiration from that movie, it doesn't really
bother me. If she denies that she did, I'll probably
roll my eyes.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
That's the thing. When you have that level of fame
and success, you can do things like that and not
even acknowledge and people don't even understand where it's coming from.
I mean, it's very hard for me not to think that.
You know it has something to do with the movie.
You're watching things, you know you're right, and you've seen
things out there. Although she claims that she she's never
(08:49):
on social media or online, I don't believe which I
don't believe that for a second. And I'll get to
that when we get to.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
The woman has alts, I know, and she's online constantly.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
So anyway, I I it's very hard for me not
to think about the movie. So anyway, when when she
announced the album The Life of a show Girl, I
was like, Wow, this is awesome. This could be great
because maybe she's finally gonna produce an album of a
more mature woman, you know, of someone you know, of
(09:21):
a certain age that it isn't fifteen years old. I
don't know. I just felt that, Okay, maybe this is
the album that she's gonna, you know, expose herself a
little more. That's how I felt based on the Life
of a Showgirl title, and a lot of people felt
that the title, the promotion, the all the statics, with
(09:42):
all the pictures and everything, the costumes she wears on
the cover of every variant has nothing to do with
the album itself. The music does not, you know, the
music has nothing to do with the concept, with the
concept of a show girl. That's me and a lot
(10:02):
of people so I kept following every news because I
was like, all right, I'm interested. And let me just
say I'm not a hardcore fan, but I do like
Taylor Swift. I listened to her a lot at the
gym working out, and I've always liked her music in general.
I don't think she's that great of an artist in
(10:25):
terms of musician, but I do think she's a great
pop artist pop music artist. I do think she has
a great talent. She can produce amazing things. Some of
her songs are great.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Can I jump in just I want to say, you
made a slightly dismissive comment about not writing like a
fifteen year old anymore, and oh, they're going to come
up to you for that, and I just want to
That's fine. You're allowed to have that opinion. But I
do feel that in recent years her work has gotten
more mature, and it's actually in racing years that I
(11:02):
like Folklore and the Torture Poe and all that. I
felt like she was finally coming into her own as
an adult artist. So I don't feel that. I wasn't
looking for this album. I wasn't looking for anything in
this album. But I didn't think this album was going
to represent a move forward in her maturity, because I
actually feel like that had already occurred.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Right, I'll get to the album later. I want to
focus a little bit on the whole promotion of the album,
even before they dropped, you know, she dropped the album.
I mean, I just want to talk about the branding
and the promotion of it, which I thought was insane.
And it's interesting to talk about it because I feel
like it's artists in general today because we have so
(11:45):
many ways of listening to a song now. I mean,
you know, you go online, you have your phone, you
have you know, it's not the old days when you
had a record and you played it. Now you have
so many ways to enjoy music. I feel like there
is an insane amount of product out there, and yes,
(12:06):
like this album. For example, even before she dropped the album,
she released twenty seven variants of this album, which is
insane to me.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Why don't we take a quick break and we'll get
into right, We'll come back and get into Taylor's money
making schemes, will be put a put a pin in that.
We'll be right back. We're back from the middle of
Lorenzo's rant, and he swear he wasn't gonna rant, But.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
I'm not ranting listening a little bit. No, I'm trying
to bring topics and you know, issues so that people
can express their opinion. I mean, go in a comment section,
let me know what you think.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I do want to before you go into all of
her money making and the variants and all that stuff,
which is not stuff I tend to pay too much
attention to. I Okay, So this, this album has gotten
some fairly mixed to negative reviews. That's gotten some of
the most negative reviews of her career. I think, I
(13:08):
know the social media response to the album among her
fans was somewhat subdued, and some of them were actually
kind of annoyed by.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And I think I have a theory. I think there's
a reason for that, and we'll talk about that.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Okay. So well, there are two theories, and these are
two things that I kind of wanted to bat around.
Number One, is this a mediocre album because for the
first time she's really in love, happy in settling down,
which is possibly the truth, or this is the one
that's a little more likely. She's a billionaire. Billionaires cannot
(13:42):
create ort I hate to be no, actually, I don't
hate to be absolutist about them, because you know what,
they get to be billionaires. They it is nearly impossible
for someone with that amount of money and that amount
of influence, and Taylor has an unbelievable amount of influence
with her fans. That is power beyond power, beyond power.
(14:03):
And it's actually one of the things that really annoys
me about the rhetoric surrounding Taylor. I mean, you heard
us at the start of this podcast. We're like tiptoeing
around it, like, oh, we're going to talk about Taylor,
but we promise we're not going to be too many,
because she has a fandom that just is rabid and
will go after anybody the second they say anything about her.
And my point is that level of power and that
(14:25):
much money kills art, kills expression. You are not an
artist anymore. You are a corporation. You are a product,
You are in a figure a figurehead. And you know
I didn't use well, no, I have always felt this way.
I'm very much of the opinion that every billionaire is
a policy failure, Like billionaires should absolutely not exist. And
(14:48):
I realize it's not the same, like she isn't exploiting
workers in countries and she's not you know whatever, but
two billion dollars is two billion dollars and when you
reach that level, you're not gonna have anything interesting left
to say. That's the problem love Taylor. She is so
wildly successful that she is no longer an artist as
(15:09):
far as I'm concerned, Right, I'm gonna get in trouble
for that.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Oh anyway, yeah, I do feel that. Uh, I don't know.
I mean she went on and and and said that, uh,
this is diabo she always wanted write, which surprised me,
but anyway, that's what she said. And she talks about
the art, all the all the thought process going uh
to release the cover and all that, so it you know,
(15:35):
and I can't help but think about uh cover. Uh,
you know album covers you know in general, like like
how you know, you create something and most of the
time they're iconic that but you can't not for you
never forget that cover. You listen to that album so
many times, and you know there's always you always think
of the cover because they picked one picture, they picked
(15:58):
one cover to represent the at work. And I feel
like today and it's not just teless way you know
Sabrina Carpet did the same thing.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
They're doing it now.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
They're all doing it now. I don't want to just
blame Taylor, but you know, when you have twenty seven
variations of your that's just money grubbing of your album.
And I think just two were released were dropped, uh,
you know after she the album dropped. But everything was
(16:31):
every everything was for sale before you even listen to
any one of the songs. Yeah, I mean all these
variants were available on sale for just one day or
twenty four hours, forty eight hours, I mean without you
listening to anything.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
And it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
And I'm trying to go back when I was young
listening to music as a teenager or something, and I
was like, I can't picture myself doing that. I'm sorry.
I'm I worship bat Shop Boys all my life, and
I can't imagine buying fifteen versions of their album even
before I listen to any song. No, I can't imagine
myself doing that. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Now, well you're not of that tender, I mean, yeah, again,
this goes back to we're not the audience for this, so.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
No, no, no, no, wonder these people sell millions because
that's what you do. I mean, it's twenty seven variants. Listen,
it's sixteen CDs, eighth vinyl, two deluxe CITs, a cassette tape,
and two digital downloads. That's twenty seven variations of the
same thing. And you can, and you know, you go
on TikTok. And of course her fans always say, well,
(17:34):
you don't have to buy all of them. Yeah, that's
easy to say. But if you are over a certain age,
and if you're young and you you know, I don't know,
you don't have to, you know, feed your family or whatever,
you will buy more than one version. I yes, maybe
you're not gonna buy the twenty seven versions, but you
will buy two or three, especially because someone the CDs
(17:56):
had jewelry, I know. And then I was freaking sweater.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
I know.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Of the one of us about moving products.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
It's not about art, it's not about expression. It's about
as moving as much product as possible. It's about riling
up a fan base, fan base to spend as much
money as possible. And I feel like when a performer
reaches that level. And I say this as if this
is something common, it is not common. Taylor has reached
(18:24):
a level that almost no performer has ever reached. I'm
very comfortable saying, well, then you have. You have sacrificed
artistry for success, and that's that's a choice you made,
and I'm fine with it. But I'm not going to
pretend like you know, what you're doing right now is
quality work. And this guy, I wanted to say this point,
(18:44):
we tiptoe around and oh my god, her fandom and
you can't say anything about Taylor And this is what
annoys me the most is and we will get respond
We might not get it now because I'm going to
actually articulate this. If we were to do a podcast
about Taylor Swift and critical things about her album and
how it was promoted, we would get all of these
responses from people who claim that we're just two men,
(19:07):
two dudes, and we're punching down and we're ragging on
a woman. And I'm like, she is a billionaire, right,
she has power. I am never even going to touch
I am not punching down at all. I am the
little guy punching up here, not that I want to
punch or whatever like I think Taylor is. I don't
(19:28):
want to say she's harmless because I do actually think
this level of money grubbing over artistry is bad for
the culture. But her music is fine. And if it
was just about her music, I don't even think we'd
be having this podcast. But she, you know, she has
turned herself into a phenomenon. She has turned herself into
a product, and she has generated a fan base that
will just snatch up anything she puts out and the
(19:51):
end result is surprise, surprise. The work is mediocre.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Right, And you again, you can go back to the
point that you know, you don't have to do any
of these things. Yes, to don't have to do anything,
but that's what marketing does. Marketing makes you want to
buy things. Like another point about her, which I thought
it was awesome that she wanted to have her music back,
you know, all her music catalog back, and she bought
(20:15):
everything back, which is great, which is great. I think,
you know, as an artist, I can't imagine painting something
or you know, creating something, creating you know, making music
or whatever and not having any rights anymore to that artistry.
I think that's a horrible thing. And I think she
did a fantastic job. But at the same time, she
decided that she was going to to re record everything,
(20:37):
and of course that generated a lot of sale. People
were buying the same music, you know, re recorded, so
more money, more marketing, more promotion, more everything. Right, and
then back to this album specifically, a lot of people
on TikTok, there's several fans of her, of her saying,
(20:58):
you know, they're a little disappointed with all these all
these variants, all these mini options to buy. And then
people say, well, you don't understand. We have to have
all this stuff so we can understand the music. Because
every vinyl had a unique poem written by Tilla Swift. Yes,
so you had to buy all the vinyls to get
all the poems. Otherwise you just get one poem. Or
(21:22):
you know, you have to buy all the CDs so
you can collect all the jewelry because every jury meant something,
or the sweater because it's the orange sweater, the color orange. Anyway,
So it gets to what point, I'm like, all right,
where is the music in all this? Which is the
core here? You know, like I mean, isn't this about music?
(21:44):
You're creating music? So I find that very disturbing in
a way. And one of the things that surprised me
and disappoint me deeply was the fact that one of
the vinyl I think was the vinyl was sold exclusively
in at Target. You can only buy it at Target,
And given what we're going through right now and Target,
(22:07):
I'm actually surprised and disappointed that she made the decision
of letting that go. Okay, we're gonna I'm gonna sell
something at Target when you had, you know, when you
claim that you support the queer community, that you support
you know, trans people in all that, I mean, you
actually had a song shake it off with a bunch of.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Actually hasn't done much since then. I would not call
her much of a I understand, but but I find
nothing I'm defending. I find that disappointed. I mean, I mean,
I don't want to even get to the point. I
don't even want.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
To talk about the fact that she's dead silent about
a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Can I just talk to that for a second. Is
that I understand the point about Target, I really do,
and we haven't shopped in Target since last year, But
I feel like that's sort of holding her to a
standard that you're not holding other artists. I mean, a
lot of artists sell their records at Target. So I don't.
(23:02):
I'm just trying to bat around an idea here. I
don't have a fully formed thought because I just got
finished saying she has a level of power that most
pop stars can never achieve a level of influence, and
of course money money out the wazoo. So but on
the by the same token, I sometimes feel it's a
little I don't want to say unfair, but unproductive maybe
(23:24):
to go after Taylor for not being more political. It's
I know she has dabbled in it in the past,
she has made political statements, she has supported candidates in
the past, but I don't know. I just don't think
that's her role. I would love it if she rallied.
I mean, I wish she had rallied people for Kamala
last year, but maybe she did. I don't know. But
(23:46):
I do think sometimes these complaints old Taylor's not, you know,
speaking out more well most Sabrina Carpenter is not speaking
out either, like most of them aren't.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I agree, I don't. I don't expect people to talk
about Gazo, Israel or anything like that, or the political
city in our country right now. I don't expect people
I think, No, I don't think they have that obligation.
But you know, the Target thing, you have twenty seven variants.
I mean, maybe settle for twenty six and not drop
that one at target. That's my point. Do it silently,
(24:14):
you know, just don't do a Target thing, right, you
don't even have to talk about it. Just don't do
it quietly, because she's done that. She's done things quietly.
She has donated so much money to help people quietly
that you don't even know about it, all right, sometimes
you know because the fans find everything. But she's done
a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Yeah, that's why I don't like to get into why
so why not? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
No, No, Target was a disappointment and I'm allowed to
say that. So so that's that was the whole thing
about the album, way before you even dropped. And then
it dropped, and then the first thing I thought was like,
all right, where's the show girl here?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Right?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
There is absolutely no show girl. I'm sorry, but there is.
There's a lot of dick, a lot of men saved
me and I'm in love, have a lot of money
and I don't know what to do with it. That's
what the album is about. And I was shocked because
I was expecting more more of the you know, behind
the scenes of a life show the life of a
(25:12):
show girl with a show girl, because she is a showgirl,
maybe not the Vegas type of show girl. I don't
want to I don't want people to think that I'm
expecting just the version of the showgirl from Vegas.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
But you know, an album about the life of being
a performer on stage on stage, it's not. I just
think she came up with the title and that well.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
That's the thing. The thing with the thing with with
Taylor Swift that I feel and a lot of artists
out there, is that they get they get inspired by
something and because they again, you know, we're so visually
fad these days, you know, like we see so much
that we get inspired by things, but they're not very
deep and so I feel like it was a disappointment,
(25:55):
and a lot of her fans are saying the same thing.
Not just me that all right, where's a shl here,
there's nothing about a showgirl. So that was disappointment number one,
especially because the visuals, the aesthetic, everything was very show girl.
You know, she dressed like a showgirl, a Vegas showgirl.
So anyway, so that was Disappointment number one, and then
(26:16):
you know, the album is just I was actually kind
of shocked because I will talk I don't want to
go through I don't want to talk about every song
because I really don't want to do that and it's
a waste of time. But I was surprised. The first
thing I was surprised is that there's a lot of
everybody's also seen the same thing. That every song starts
(26:38):
with the sound of a of a similar song written
by somebody else, Like you know, the beginning of every
song sounds like another song out there.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
And she's not crediting anyone.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
So the only thought before the album came out, I believe,
or just when the album came out, Father Figure. They
were talking about Father Figure, that Father Figure was inspired
by the song by what's his name, God, Camerim, George,
thank you, George, Michael So, and then she created the
you know, his state or whatever, and so there was
(27:11):
credit for that. But if you listen to all these
songs like the Fate of Aphelia, I mean the beginning
of it, I thought of Siya she Wolf immediately, and
then people are saying, you know, they can hear Jack
Jackson five the Jackson five and and what else Lord
a bunch of people in the beginning, and then people
(27:33):
were talking about is that simply uh or or is
that interpolation?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
What is it?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
Simply is when you, if you don't know, sample is
when you get a portion of somebody else's song and
use it in your song without changing it. Just you
just get it and you put it in your song.
So that's simply interpolation is when you kind of recreate
that portion of somebody else's song into your song. People
(28:01):
are saying that it's none of that. There's all kinds
of claims out there that but people are surprised that
they can they can see, they can hear their songs
in the beginning of every song and that there is
absolutely no credit, which surprised me because Taylor is very
protective of her songs and people were even comparing to
(28:22):
Beyonce is saying, you know, people make fun of Beyonce
because Beyonce and when she writes a song or you know,
released the song, there's like a list, a long list
of credit, you know, for every song that she credits everybody.
So if you go and you check she didn't credit anybody,
there's no credit for any of these songs that people
(28:43):
are listening, So I don't know. I found that very
interesting because there's a whole story if you guys don't
know that. When Olivia uh Real she released hears her
song what is it? I forget the name of the song. Now,
Olivia rodre released a song and she went a line
(29:04):
or was interviewed and said that she was inspired by
Taylor Swift's cruse summer song. So immediately Taylor Swift team
went after her and she rushed some credit for Taylor Swift.
It was a big thing because Olivia Rodrigo said that
she meant no harm, that she was just inspired by
(29:26):
Taylor Swift's song and anyway, so there's all that going on,
so I'm surprised there wasn't any credit for all that stuff.
If you if you go and listen to every song,
you will immediately recognize something else. So that was one part.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
All Right, I'm gonna jump in, We're gonna take a
short break, and then we'll be back with more of
Lorenzo ranting.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
We're back and we're talking about Taylor Swift's latest album,
and I do want to bring something we're talking about
on the album in general, and as I said, I
don't want to go through every song. But there's another
song that everyone is talking about because apparently, uh she's
talking about another female artist, uh, Charlie x X, because
(30:13):
Charlie xx came out with an album and a song
that she mentioned Tela Swift. Uh So, but if you
listen to the song, if you listen to the album,
it's not a disc uh.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
She did say one she opened for Taylor Swift and
she said it was like playing for a stadium ful
of five year old which it's really funny but really
bitchy and.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Kind of true. Anyway, So when when in the beginning
of her career, that's what she did. She she opened
for Tayler Swift, and then she made that comment, which
I thought was hilarious. It's hilarious and she probably shouldn't
make that comment. I agree that probably puts Tyler Swift,
who never goes online to read anything. So uh so,
that was the beginning of it. And then she wrote
(30:59):
a song about her struggles with music, her struggles, and
it's actually if you listen to the song, she's been
very you know, she's being honest, and she's been very
She's been very honest about being a female artist, a
female musician and the pressure to have that kind of fame,
to have that kind of success that Tilli Swift does.
(31:21):
And I can see that as an artist, people comparing you,
you know, all these female artists being compared to tell
As Swift or Beyonce, you know that they expect that
level of fame of you as an artist. So she
wrote a song about that. Her insecurity is that, you know,
she felt that there was a lot of pressure to
be that person, to be that success, and so she
(31:43):
wrote a song about it. So now we have a
song that people are saying and I believe it is
about Charlie where Telli Swift goes a little mean about it, uh,
and I think she missed the point. Uh, But she's
very mean in the song, and there are songs like
that about it.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Can I just jump in on that one. I when
I heard about that song, I listened to it. But
when I first heard about it, I was like, really, Taylor,
you're still doing dis tracks at this age, Like come on.
And you know, there was a pushback against this sentiment
where people were saying because a bunch of people were
like isn't she getting a little too old for these
(32:24):
mean girl songs and these clapbacks? And you know, the
response to this was, I don't recall a lot of
people saying this last year when Kendrick was going after Drake,
And that's true. We were all very entertained by the
Kendrick and Drake feud, but it was about larger things
than you know, you dissing me or talking about me
(32:48):
behind my back, or you know, you married the band
member of the guy I dated, whatever. I do think
Taylor's clapbacks tend to be pretty childish. The Kendrick and
Drake one. I wouldn't say that they were covering themselves
in mature glory throughout that whole thing, but there were
legitimate beeps going back and forth, and they were you know,
(33:12):
I guess it was exciting to watch because it was
two artists who were being very open about it. And
that was the other thing is there was no question
who Kendrick was talking about. He would name Drake. Sometimes
these tracks where Taylor puts out these mean girl lyrics
and we all have to try and guess which girl
she's missing. That's the part where I'm like that is
you're thirty four, thirty five years old. That is like
(33:34):
eighteen year old behavior, and it all goes back. I
hate it. I'm a broken record on this, but again,
you're a billionaire. You are punching down. I don't care
how big Charlie XCX, she's nowhere's near as big as
you are. And I don't even care if she said
something mean about you. You are so powerful, so wealthy,
and so influential. The fact that you were going after
(33:58):
people for these slights. Again, this is an artistry. There
is no artistry in this, and I can't like Kendrick,
and especially Kendrick that was artistry, man, I mean, he
elevated that stuff to high art. This is just a bitchy,
mean girl track with no artistic value to it whatsoever.
It's just her settling scores and making money off it.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
I'm actually I was actually shocked because there's another song
that people are saying and if you read the lyrics, yeah,
it sounds like it that she is talking about Travis
Kelsey's ex girlfriend. And if you read the lyrics and
things that Travis has said during interviews, that doth sound
like it. This is where I can so I don't understand.
(34:40):
There's another shit, there's another song that is pretty much
a high school whole drama again, and I'm like, you're
thirty four, why are we still talking about high school?
Really really well off? And that brings me to the
topic of her fandom. That's the issue here. I do
feel that, I do feel, honestly that Tylor Swift feels
a responseible ability and at the same time a desire
(35:03):
to create something that is more her. But I do
feel that she feels like the responsibility to write songs
for everybody. And her fandom goes from twelve to seventy five, right,
So it's very hard for any artist. I mean, name
an artist that will write something that will please someone.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Should be writing. I agree, thought that's true to her life,
her feelings instead of trying to fulfill a market slot.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
But you know, I have a niece and she's twelve,
and she was talking about the latest album, and you know,
I can't imagine my twelve year old niece talking about that,
you know, singing that she has a bigger dick or
that her boyfriend has a big dick, because it with
a lot of dick on here going on here in
the songs. Well, I mean, I'm not listen, I twelve
(35:49):
year old's talk like that. Lorenzo, I understand, but I
don't know. I feel that listen, I don't. People were saying,
why can't she talk about him? Why she why can't
she talk about his you know thing, he's Redwood.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
I was.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Like, it doesn't bother me, but it's not your style.
I mean I expect that from Nicki Minaje or somebody else, Yes,
Serena Carpenter, I don't expect that for Taylor, from Taylor Swift.
And I'm I don't know. Maybe I need to be
ease and into it. I don't know. I mean just
it feels very sudden. So I feel that the album
(36:30):
is just another thing that she put out. And I
was surprised when she was being interviewed and she said
that she wrote the whole thing. Why she was touring,
you know, doing the era stour, which shocked me because
I was like, where did you find the time and
why are you rushing this? There's no need to rush this.
You just had the mega tour of the century. I mean,
(36:52):
there's nothing compared to that.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
And you just got engaged. Why don't you just slow down.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Why don't you just take a break and before you
write something else. There's no need to write something so quickly,
and I can't. Nobody, Nobody is that creative, NonStop nobody.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
She's a business. That's That's my only point. And I
that's why I turned this whole buck ass over to Lorenzo,
because I was, like, I have one point to say.
She is incredibly wealthy, and at that level, she is
no longer an artist, and this album is apparently very
clear on that that she isn't an artist anymore. She
produces songs that are directly related to her market, Like
(37:33):
everything is geared towards specific aspects of her market, of
the demographic that listens to her, and she weaponizes her
own you know, like whatever slights or faults that come
her way, and like, lady, you're super powerful and super wealthy,
people are going to have opinions about you, right, and
are you going to write a song every time someone
(37:53):
says something? That's that has always been my issue with
Taylor is that I do think she is a talented
songwriter and a talented performer. I think the vast majority
of her music is very, very listenable pop music. I
don't really have a lot of bad things to say
about her work up until now, but this to me,
I was like, this is the dividing line. She has
(38:14):
stopped being an artist and she's now a corporation.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
I think she can write wonderful things. I listened to
her and one of my favorite lines is when she sings,
my boy only breaks his favorite toys. When you think
about that line is so deep, man, she can be
an artist. Or when she says, dancing around the kitchen
in the refrigerator light, that is gold, man.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Yeah, that is gold those lines, that's a beautiful image,
beautiful imagery. And she does that.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
She's done that many many times. She is good.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I agree, she is good. I don't think you can
be good anymore when you're at her level now.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
And you can't be good all the time now with
that level of of you know, assembly line product, you know,
you just can't. I mean, at some point, nobody, nobody can't.
That's why. Now it's funny when Schappel Room came out
and she start you know, annoying everybody saying that you know,
this is my music. And then she annoyed a bunch
of people saying that you know I'm not putting another
(39:14):
album anytime soon. You understand why, you know, I'm giving
her a lot more credit now for saying that, because yes,
she understands that she can't produce you know what she
produced that made her so famous all the time, right,
So she needs a break. So I think that I think,
you know, you have to think about these things. And
(39:36):
I Taylor Swift recently got annoyed a few days ago.
She's she's almos annoyed. She got annoyed because people ask
her if she was going to stop writing music now
that she's with Travis Kelsey and annoyed, which is a
dumb question. But anyway, back to your point, I think
you can write great songs happy as a happy person.
I don't.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I don't know. Can you can even do it as
a wealthy person.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Yeah, but you need a you need time to think
and get inspired by all the things. I think and listen.
There's nothing wrong with her finding her man and finding
her you know Redwood.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
I think, personally, if this is what she wants, and
she I think it is what she wants, I think
she should go off and ride that man for the
next five years. Have a couple of babies and then
come back and write about where you are in your
life right now right. You don't need the money, you
don't need the exposure. So why not take a few
years to live this new You know this, if you
(40:34):
really are getting married and entering a domestic this is
a new thing for you, and it would it should
spawn a whole new take, all kinds of creative new
takes on your life. Like even Madonna she got when
she had her first baby. She was reflected in her
music and she Ray of Light came out after she
had her. So I think it might be good for
(40:55):
you to just take a couple of years off. I'm
not saying you need to go have babies, but if
that's what you wanted to do, go off and do that,
and just be in love and build that life with
all that friggin money the te of you have, and
then come back in five years with a new album.
She's not She's going to spit out another one in
eighteen months. Probably.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
I just think the whole thing was rushed. And you
know when she talks about the one is all this
research and she read Hamlet.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
I just got the afeliate thing.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
I really want to talk about the Aphelia song, and
that's the only song I want to talk about. Talk
about is that she goes on and on about how
she read Hamlet, and she even joke said, well, Travis
Kelce doesn't read Hamlet, but I'll tell him what the
story is about.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Well, sounds like you don't know, honey, did you.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Read the story? Because the song has nothing to do
with Aphelia. Nothing, nothing.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
I mean, it's not some girl boss story.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
It's actually very offensive in a way because Aphelia is
such an important character and such a sad character.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Probably one of the most important women characters in Shakespeare.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
It just feels like, Oh, I went online and I
you know, I want to write a song about drowning,
and then and is saving me. So let me go
online and look for drowning pictures. Oh, this picture is cute.
That's affiliate. Okay, who's a Felia? All right, let's let's
find out who's affiliate. Oh okay, this is a good painting,
so maybe that will be my cover. So Ophelia, Okay,
(42:16):
Ophelia drowned because she was miserable. Okay. Oh, and then
she writes a song. Ophelia is a character that if
you don't know, go and read about her. It's, you know,
a character written by by Shakespeare and a Hamlet story,
a woman who was traumatized by her brother, her father,
and her boyfriend. Anyway, so a woman who couldn't do
(42:42):
anything wanted to reclaim her agency. She wanted so badly
to be able to think for herself, and she was
not allowed to. And it got to a point, to
make very short, drove her mad and she killed herself.
So Taylor Swiff says she was inspired by her and
write a song about a woman who you know, was
(43:04):
saved by a man, and she doesn't want the fate
of Aphelia. She wanted to be saved by a man.
Ophelia wasn't waiting for a man to save her. Ophelia
wanted a voice. So and then she talked about Ophelia
living in fantasy. No, Olivia, Olivia, Ophelia. Ophelia didn't leave,
She didn't live in fantasy. She was traumatized and couldn't speak,
(43:28):
couldn't have a voice. That what drove her mad. So
it's just like this light take on things that annoys me, shallow, shallow, shallow, dismissive,
and this service it's a the service. And when you
claim that you did all this research and blah blah
blah blah. So anyway, again, like Showgirl covers her, show Girl,
(43:50):
the album has nothing to do with it. Again, I
think she just to wrap this up. I think she's
extremely talented. I think she has great she has written
amazing things. I just think she needs to take time
to produce work, and.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
All artistry takes time, and she's not granting herself that
time because she feels pressure or constantly put out product.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
So it's not a great album at all. And her
fans are saying so if they're allowed to, when they're
allowed to. But I feel like, you know, take a break.
I know you can do a better job. I know
you can write great songs, but this isn't it at all.
And be happy with your redwood. Everybody wants a redwood?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Agree, all right? I think we've beaten us to death.
We'll be back next week with whatever across our eyes,
across our desk. Until then, take care of yourself, love
you mean it. Bye bye bye,
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