May 7, 2025 • 49 mins
T Lo explain the history of the Met Gala, why there are so many celebrities there, and what the whole thing is meant to achieve. Then they take a look at this year's themes of Black Dandyism and fine tailoring, and explain why so many white women failed in their style choices this time around.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
We're Tomy Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest.
Hello kittens, welcome back to another edition of the PSO.
I am the team, your tel Toe Fitzgerald, and I'm
here with the low and your Tilo Lorenzo. It is
metcal a week. We are freaking exhausted. But as I
said to yeah, as I said to Lorenzo earlier today,
(00:44):
it's so easy.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
It is.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
It is so easy when you're faced with five hundred
completely insane outfits that you have to you know, get
through for the week. That is easy.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
As I said.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Too, I'm like when it's something like you know, Julia
Louise Dreype has that Good Morning America. Literally those posts
take three times as long because it's like, what am
I going to say about a basic day dress? I know,
but you know everyone's showing up in encrusted in pearls
and diamonds, and so there's just it's fun. As much
as as much work as the mechala is. It is
(01:18):
the busiest week of our year born none.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Oh yeah, thanks to you.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
As much work as it is, it's not hard work
at all, not even a little bit. It's just time consuming.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
It's you know.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I mean, we're exhausted because it's it's it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
To compile, yeah, a lot to write. It's not difficult,
but it's fun, you know, it's fun to find out
who they're wearing, the inspiration, you know, all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
And even for Lorenzo, who does all of the research
for all of these posts, even that's easier because a
lot of these design houses are putting that information out fairly.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Quint have changed. I remember when we started our site,
there was very little out there about who they were
wearing all that stuff. Now there's like massive information I
mean about everything about the nails, the hair, and the makeup.
I love it. I absolutely love that because I think
all these people deserve the recognition for doing amazing job.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, we've been doing this long enough that we've been
able to sort of chart the differences in how the
mechala is perceived and it's been interesting to watch. We're
going to, if we haven't made it clear by now,
devote most of this podcast to discussing the mechala. We're
not going to do our favorite looks or least favorite
looks or any.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Of that still on the site, because that's what the
site's for.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
It, But we're going to give you a little bit
of history, a little bit of talk about themes. Look
at some of the controversies will always erupt around the
Mecala every year. And yeah, we're just going to bat
it around a little bit. But before we do that,
we're both going to weigh in a little bit on television.
I'm just going to briefly talk about and Or. I
(02:58):
never planned on doing much about it, right, I wasn't
going to do extensive recapping of it every week because
you know, they released three hours of it at a time,
and it and I'm already behind right, the two tuesdays
have passed since the show, since we last recorded, and
(03:20):
so now there are six episodes and I haven't even
seen the last two. So my point is this, I
want to briefly mention that, yes, I am still fully
on board with this show. I still think it's honestly,
it is the best show on television right now. It
is complicated. It is dark in a way that is
(03:44):
not you know, when you use the word dark to
describe any sort of pop culture item, it usually is
a default for something that's depressing or violent or something
like that. I don't mean it in that sense. I
mean it's dark in the sense that it looks at
the darkness of the human soul in a way that
Star Wars just never ever has before. It's smart, and
(04:07):
it's complicated, and it takes its time with certain things.
It doesn't over explain certain things. It expects you to
keep up. And I truly, truly love a television show
that does not spoon feed its audience. And the fact
of the matter is, with Star Wars, that is a
(04:30):
genre and it is an esthetic a type of film
that has always spoon fed its audience. That's, you know,
partially because Star Wars was devised for children initially, and
even now, like and Or, is not a show for
children at all. They would be completely bored by most
of it. It's a lot of speeches given by senators
(04:52):
and that sort of thing. But it still has a
certain childlike sense of fun to it because as much
as it can and be an examination of say, fascism
and resistance movements, there's still little guys walking around, little
Star Wars guys, some fluffy furry thing or some lizard
headed thing, and there's little talking drawers. So it has
(05:14):
that sense of the familiar, and it is one of
the more interesting takes on Star Wars. In something that
Tony Gilroy, the creator of the show, did with this
show is that he made it the most familiar of
all Star Wars stories. And by that I mean like,
(05:36):
for instance, in the second set of episodes, Cassiing goes
under cover in Space France, he goes to Gorman and
while the Gorman set didn't specifically evoke Paris, in fact,
they said later it was it was based more on
(05:59):
northern Italian, say, who's like tourin the European influence on
the design of that set was very, very obvious, and
of course as soon as every Gorman opened their mouth,
you could tell that they based the language on French.
Every actor they cast except for the one guy who
was German, but every other actor on Gorman was a
French actor, and they said they all took to the
(06:21):
fake language because it used French sounds. A lot of
times when fake languages are devised, there's a specific sort.
It's usually a combination of English and Spanish sounds, and
that's how fake languages tend to be divised. But you
never hear one with the actual you know, sounds that
(06:42):
French people make when they talk, so that this is
what I mean about the familiar, and and or checks
into a hotel, which you know, okay, I guess there's
hotels in Star Wars, and the hotel room basically looks
like a hotel room. I mean, it's a little outer space,
but it just looks like a luxury hotel room. It's
all stuff like that. Or there's Monday morning talk shows
(07:04):
that you know. I didn't even think they had television
in Star Wars. I thought everything was holograms. And there
are times when I think that is slightly overplayed because
it stops feeling like Star Wars and starts feeling a
little bit too much like here. But I do think
the Gorman stuff is fascinating because it is so clearly
modeled on the French resistance, while at the same time
(07:27):
it is essentially unpacking the conflict in Gaza. And I
don't know when this was shot or written. It may
have all been devised before things erupted in twenty twenty three,
but of course that has been an ongoing conflict for
seventy eighty years now, and it's very clear that they
(07:49):
are basing a lot of this on real world stuff,
and you never ever see that in Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
You just don't.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And maybe there's an argument to be made from the
hardcore fans that when you start doing that, it stops
being Star Wars. When you start making allegory for real
for the real world, or when you you know, when
people are watching television shows and checking into hotels, that
doesn't feel like Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Right, Just one thing I actually posted in the lounge
about the creator gave an interview to the Hollywood Report
about it. They begin production Novimba twenty twenty two. They
and they wrapped around February twenty twenty four. So he
said that although they didn't have that in mind, but
it's there. It's there. Yeah. They talk about things like
(08:36):
that happening all the time in the world, right, and
you know.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
The way it actually it sometimes it gets uncomfortably close
to where we are right right now in the world,
and Star Wars has never done that. So I'm rambling here,
But long story short, I'm still in it. I'm still
fascinated by it. I think if you're a Star Wars
purest you might have a little problem with how some
(09:01):
of this is a little topical and a little too familiar,
but for me, it's working, and I just want to
wrap up and say, this is probably the last time
I'm going to talk about it on the podcast, because
I think when the season is done, when the series
is done, we'll do a write up. It's important enough,
and I'm so fired up that I'm like, yeah, I'm
gonna I'm going to bang out two thousand words on
(09:22):
this the next morning.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I can tell you I have read and seen so
many interviews with what's her name, Genevieve O'Reilly or Yeah,
she's so amazing. She's so amazing talking about her character
and the speech and everything she gave. I just think
it's fascinating that I haven't watched the show yet, but
everything I've seen out there sounds like very sophisticated TV.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
To me, it is now and that's all I'm going
to say on it. Right right, I'm going to toss
to you because you have a TV show that I
haven't watched.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, I was very excited about a show on Netflix
called The Four Seasons, based on the movie from nineteen
eighty one. I believe The Four Seasons a very famous movie.
So Tina Fey decided to create the show kind of
inspired by the movie, which is about friends meeting. I
(10:15):
guess every new season they meet. That's why it's called
the Four Seasons. And they you know, they spend time
together as you know, vacating whatever, they're just on vacation,
and they they they spend time together as friends. So
I was very excited about it. It's a great cast.
I watched the screeners a long time ago. I couldn't
(10:38):
talk about it, so I was just waiting for it
to drop. And then I started reading the reviews, and
the reviews are the reviews are not great, and I'm
not surprised. I think tenth it gets too much inspired
by a movie from nineteen eighty one. I think it
feels dated to me. The story is kind of dated,
(10:58):
kind of a cliche, the friends, in the situations that
they find themselves into. I just don't like it. I
think it's a missed opportunity here to have a show
about friends meeting, you know, on vacation. They meet once
a year or twice a year or whatever. And then
I think it's a missed opportunity to talk about issues
(11:19):
that friends, longtime friends face. Now everything to me felt
very much of a cliche, you know, the fights, the
dialogue and everything. It was just I don't know, I'm
gonna say something here that people are gonna hate me
for it, but I'll say it anyway. I think Tina
Faith kind of dated hermiteer feels very dated. I think
it hasn't developed. I don't know, it feels very dated,
(11:43):
and I would actually I started watching the show and
I felt like, Oh, is this a pear piece? Are
they supposed to be in the seventies.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I actually heard a couple of people say that that
it felt very boomer baby boomer.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Because of that, because everything is so dated and sort
of a cliche. Things being discussed are so like dated.
So yeah, at first I was like, oh, there, I
guess they're in the seventies or eighties. But then I
saw the car. Yeah, I saw the cars and everything else,
and I was like, oh no, no, and I'm And
(12:15):
one thing that I hate is that I was very
excited about Calmin Domingo. I'll watch anything with that guy.
I love him. And he plays a gay guy and
he has a husband played by Marco Calvanni. Marco Cavanni
is an actor and director Italian actor and director. Very
talented guy. But he uh again I'm gonna say it. Uh,
he plays his very gay character. Nothing wrong about you
(12:39):
know what, very flambloyant gay man. I mean, they're out there.
I'm not judging being flamboyant, but I thought it was
an interesting choice given everything else around them, you know,
around this group of people. So I don't know, I
just didn't believe it. He's way flamable for the character,
(13:01):
I think, and it just threw me off. I'm like,
oh my god. Anyway, so I'm curious if you have
watched it, let me know in a comment section what
you thought about it. But it's a great cast. Again,
I felt like, here's an opportunity to talk about issues
being friends, you know, longtime friends, and I don't know,
(13:22):
you just felt very dated and I was really disappointing.
Didn't like it at all. So anyway, that's it the
fourth season on Netflix. Great cast. I mean, these people
are very talented, Yeah, but the materia is very very
very old.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah to me, interested in it. Yeah, all right, we're
gonna take a short break and then we're coming back
with lots of thoughts about the met Gala. We're back
and now we're going to chat about the twenty twenty
five met Gala. There's much We're just gonna sort of
touch on a bunch of different topics. I'm gonna let's
start with this. Uh one, No, I would never take
(13:57):
a picture and put it on social media because we
don't like taking pictures of our house or anything like that.
But I know people have asked what is a night?
What's it like for Tila on Oscars night or Metcala
night or whatever like that, And I'm just going to
run this down for you. Number One, we spend all
day like nervous, like, oh my god, We've got so
much work to do. We're going to get it done.
(14:17):
We have to get it done because you have to understand, Okay,
the night of the Megala, there's two jobs happening. The
first job is Lorenzo's job, and Lorenzo's job is sourcing pictures,
legal pictures. That's the other thing is that because we
are a business, we don't pull an We don't pull
like Getty image pictures with the water with the watermark
on them, because I know everybody does that, but you
(14:39):
leave yourself open to a lawsuit. So we don't do that.
We wait for legal pictures that we are allowed to
license ourselves, and then Lorenzo gets those pictures, finds out
what the person is wearing, and that stuff goes up
on social media in as timely a manner as Lorenzo
can manage, and me describing that to you does not
(14:59):
even come close to just to to letting you know
how much pressure Lorenzo was under when that's got I have.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Like twenty five windows open at the same time. I'm
trying to get the information to make sure the information
is correct. I tried to get a nice picture.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
He's usually on the couch. Yeah, his laptop pop, you know,
propped on his knees. Cats and the E is playing
in the background, and there's cats everywhere. I am sitting
at my desk. I have the Vogue live feed because
I find the E annoying. Well, the thing is, the
thing about E is it's a damn shame. They They
(15:34):
really lost their whole red carpet. They were literally where
you went to for the red carpet. And as much
as I complained about people like Juliana and Ryan Seacrest,
they actually did know what they were doing.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
They were actually good at it. I think there were
so many, so much backlash. It started with the whole
z India thing, remember when they had that show, all
that stuff. The fact that we don't have that anymore,
don't have a lot of people who used to cover
the show anymore. So it feels like they just hand
the job to these people who are not that great,
(16:07):
and it's not that great. I don't want to be
too bitchy.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Go ahead, Christian Carian, it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
He's going to get fired. He is going to get fired.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Listen. I have spent two decades making my career out
of being a bitch about what people are wearing. Famous
people are wearing. And it is not an easy line
to walk. And this is why you know he has
mostly given up, is because they they've they've screwed up
with that Sandaea thing. It's difficult to be bitchy and
(16:38):
not cross a line, right, And we're still here, the
Thud Girls are still here after all of these years,
because the four of us are actually very good at that.
We're very good at being bitchy about what people wear
without ever crossing a line where we're getting nasty.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
There are certain things we would never talk about you know,
their their their body sliders.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
So our antennae are always up about, you know, body
shaming on our site. It's because, I mean, any red
carpet commenter has to be on top of this and
make sure that it's not creeping into their work. But
if your male red carpet commentaries, you are spending a
(17:18):
significant amount of time critiquing the style choice, critiquing how
women look. So you have to be very we have
to be very very careful and make sure. I don't
know if you remember a couple of years back, I
wasn't that long ago, Olivia Munn went after the fuggirls
on her social media and I remember thinking at the time,
(17:38):
this is my nightmare. This is my nightmare that some
female celebrity is going to single us out and send
her hordes of people after us.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
They've done it.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
She was not really not well, not on that line now.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
But we had cases of people anyway. Yeah, but I
see what you're say, not on a public level that
everyone is talking about, like what happened with the FuG girls.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
So yeah, this ie, I don't want to be called
a misogynist and some people are just gonna call me that. No,
matter what I say or do. And some people think
that to even be in fashion commentary is a form
of misogyny. But and I can't do anything about those people.
But we have worked very hard, we very very hard
(18:20):
to avoid that kind of blowback on our site, on
our work, and that's why we're so strict about not
doing any sort of body commentary.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
So I also want to emphasize it. The reason why
we don't do body commentary is not just because of
the we're afraid of 's wrong. Well, right, I was
just about say that, not just because we're afraid we're
gonna get, you know, criticized by it's just that we
don't believe in it. Yeah, I don't think it's right.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
It's about for us, it's always about the choice is
made in the outfit, in the design, in the accessorizing.
It's not about what they wear. Florence Pugh recently gave
an interview complaining about this, and I was like.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Is she talking about us?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Where she said how much he hates the red carpet
and how she hates that you go out there and
they write about you the next day and they're they're
putting up pictures of models wearing the same output on
the runway, which is something we do.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Oh my god, she said that.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And she said, and they're comparing you to the model
on the runway. And I found that's not I felt briefly,
but well, she may not have been talking about us.
I mean, we're not the only people.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
In the game. Well, we don't do that.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
We're not the only people in the game. But it
did make me pause and think, all right, I'm glad
that we don't do that. We don't. We actually don't
compare it to the model, except to note this is
not appropriate for you know, it's only only a model
could pull this off. That's the only time we ever
compare someone to the model.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
We had the runway look for several reason. One of
them is so that you can look you can actually
see what was created and how it was created and
compared to what how it was adapted to the person.
That's number one. And I think that's that's I think
that's healthy to look at it as something and say
this is not for me, but I think I can
adapt this to me, right, So I think that's how
(20:00):
I don't see a problem with that. And we have
the picture all the way at the bottom. We don't
have it as we used to, like side by side
or next to each other. That yeah, I can see
you look.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Then it becomes it becomes more I mean, Florence is
short and not model shape.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I can I can see you getting annoyed with that.
That it's it's there side by.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Side, and which we don't do anymore, right, we don't
do the side by side comparison. Anyway, Back to what
McAllen night is like I am on my computer, I've
got the Vogue live feed going, and I am trying
to compile a list for the article that I am
going to be writing for Cosmopolitan that night. And usually
you try and get it in by about nine point
(20:38):
thirty so that it's live on the site by about
eleven PM so and people to start showing up around six.
So I have about a three hour window where I
am compiling looks and I'm talking to my editor at Cosmo,
and I'm writing this thing up and at the same time,
I'm yelling out to Lorenzo who's Joey King wearing? Who's
this one wearing? So that's ourn and then when I
(21:02):
file the Cosmo pece and Lorenzo was done, and that's
usually around eleven pm. Then we have cake and then
I pop an edible. But that's basically our metcalaite. It's
not glamorous, it's it's it's stressful, and it's a lot
of work and I love we love it.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
We get up the next day excited about it because
we love fashion. We love to talk about these things.
And I think the met Gala is very interesting because
it's just not fashion, but it's also celebrating something. And
I think this brats and Arstree and this year is
very very special. No matter how you feel about it,
I think this year was a very special time and
(21:39):
theme because you know, usually white people are the only
ones being celebrated all the time, so it's nice to
see that it is different. It's about you know, it's
about all types of people, and it's about in this
case specific black people.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Oh yeah, we should note that they Let's let's do
a little right right explanation of the mecala because we're
Ryan do this every year because all this stuff is
known to us and if you read us with any regularity,
you probably know it too. But it's a good idea
to keep reminding people every year So the Megala is
a fundraiser for the Metropolitan Museum's Costume Institute, which is
(22:21):
run partially by Anna Wintor. She's you know, and she
runs the Metcala. It raises funds for that institute. It
is not a lot of times every year, and this
year especially because of you know, the presidential administration and
all the fuckery that's going on right now this year
(22:42):
in particular, a lot of people we need to cancel this.
And oh, Jack Schlasberg, Caroline Schlosberg's son, And it should
be noted that Jacqueline Kennedy, his grandmother, was very instrumental
in getting the mechala re established sixty years ago. So
but he came out with this needs to be canceled
because Trump is present, and that's just not the point
(23:04):
of any of this. And every year people are like,
it's the Hunger Games, and no, it's not not not
the point either. It's not I know, from the outside,
it looks like just a bunch of rich people dripping
in diamonds, and and I'm not denying that it is that.
But it is an actual, legitimate fundraiser for an actual museum,
(23:25):
and it is used. That money is used for that.
No one's getting rich off the Met Gala. They're funding
an art museum.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
And this year they raise a record breaking thirty one million,
you know, right, this is not the Hunger Games, right.
I mean, it's a lot of money, money that they need, right,
and it's a good cause. So it's good. It's it's
a good thing that you know, and I went to
a created Actually now it is a good thing. It's
a good thing. I mean, and you you know, you
might say, well, why don't we have another gala for
(23:54):
something else more important or you know.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Well there's galas every month, so it's fine, there's cancer galas, right,
Laediatric Aids galas, and so let's keep creating them, yeah,
and raising money for good things.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
But that's a good thing. The Met Gala does a
good job. It was a good thing that way to
create it and and that and it's opportunity for people
to dress up and look good and of course you're
gonna find and yeah, of course you're gonna you know,
invite celebrities because that's how you get the attention of
the people you.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Get yeah, I mean, uh, the Metcala wasn't always as
celebrity have avery as it is now.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
It is.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
One of the developments that Anna Winter did was to
make it a huge celebrity event. But uh and sometimes
you know, there is some criticism for that that it
became all of it because you have to understand, there's
a bunch of really wealthy socialites that are walking that
red carpet as well, but you know.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
They're just don't see them.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah they're not featured. And businessmen and and and billion
a lot of money, right, they're all there too, But
it's the it's the celebrities that bring the press, that
bring all the excitement because no one cares what some
social aid or a billionaire is wearing.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So uh, no, go ahead, you let me just talk
a little bit about how how celebrities get invited. So
first of all, you have to pay for a table,
you know, so that you can get designers usually, so
it's usually the designers. The house is the fashion houses.
They pay for that table, and they sort of get
to invite whoever they want. But there are also suggesting
(25:25):
from suggestion from a Winter involgue and everybody else involved
who to invite. So there's sort of like a collaboration
and agreement who's going to get invited for each table,
for each designer. So that's how celebrities get invited. They
don't pay a dime, but the designers due, the houses due,
they pay a lot of money for that table. And
(25:45):
whoever has more money, you know, gets to invite more people, right,
bigger table.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
And the tables are what three hundred and fifty thousand, Yeah,
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
I don't remember the exact amount right now. But it's
a lot of money. I mean, you have to have
money to be able to invite all these people because
then you have to provide all the clothes. I mean,
it's a lot of expense. It's a lot of money spent,
uh to attend this event. So that's how it happens.
And and you know, in the past, everyone talked about
how how Anna Winter you know, approves everything she's in,
(26:18):
She's controlling everything. And I think that was true at
some point, but I don't think any I think she's
way more flexible now.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
People wore on and Kanye showed up right right.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I mean, once you have the Kardashian's on the red carpet,
I mean you can't really say that you have a
lot of control. It's very much. Whoever has the biggest,
you know, accounts on social media. That's pretty much how
that's how it is now. And uh and people because
people were saying, oh and and hathway and and uh
(26:49):
so why uh they pretty much wore the same thing,
and oh, I'm sorry. Sandya wore a Louis Vuitton suit,
a white suit, and Anda so I wore a white
suit deor to and they look very very similar. And
people were saying, well, you know, they keep saying that,
and in ware to approve every look, she wouldn't approve
those two looks, you know, which is kind of true
(27:10):
if she wasn't, you know, controlling everything.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I don't mean to sound ageist or anything, but I
think she's she's looking pretty checked out. So I think
it's time for her to step down.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, I well, a lot of things, but anyway, but
magazine and everything else. But so, I don't think she
controls the way she used to, if that's ever true
that she controlled that much, you know, But anyway, so
I think it's a lot more flexible now. You know,
you're not supposed to use the phone, but you see
(27:42):
a lot of celebrities using the phone. Now you're not
supposed to smoke, and Madonna's right there smoking her cigar,
so I guess, you know, it depends on how big
you are too. Who's going to tell Madonna not to
smoke a cigarette, right or a cigar? So so it's
interesting to see that it has becoming I don't know
it it's more flexible now. I think it's pretty much
(28:03):
about who's going to bring the biggest numbers in terms
of people following them.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, so because a lot of times you'll see like
especially on social I mean, it's really interesting. We alluded
to the changes that we've seen with the Meccalaugh and
the time that we've been commenting on it, and the
biggest change is how it is received on social media.
I mean, when we first started doing the Mechcala, I'm
not even sure if we had a Twitter account at
that point, and now it has. You know, it is
(28:32):
an event that is entirely on social media essentially, like
everybody checks in. I know from experience that people who
have zero interest in fashion, red carpets or celebrities will
tune in for the met Gala and offer their opinions,
and those usually the people that are they'll tend to
(28:53):
be the first ones to make the Hunger Games comparisons
and that sort of thing, because they're not really.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Knowledgeable about that.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And I get it. I mean, you know, if you
don't want to look at really wealthy people dripping in
diamonds and you know, outfits that are worth more than
your house, believe me, that's a completely understandable impulse. All right,
I think we've explained the setup.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, so that's how pretty much how it works. No,
go ahead, No, that's it. That's it how it works
in general.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, so why don't we go to a break and
then we'll come back and we'll talk about the themes
and what's up with all the white ladies. We'll be
right back. We're back, and I think we completed our
task of setting up the explanation of what the Mencala
is for all of you. Now we're going to talk
(29:43):
about the themes. It's and this is something that people
generally do not understand or they need to be reminded
every single year. First off, that the cost the Mencala
is not a costume party, so people don't have to
come up coming cost Second, the mech Gala theme is
(30:03):
it is a themed gala every year, and that theme
is based on whatever the Costume Institute is exhibiting at
that time, and they go hand in hand with each other.
So the Costume Institute currently has an exhibit based on
Monica Miller's book super Fine Tailoring Black Style. That is
(30:26):
what the exhibit is based on. It is an examination
of black male dandyism and African American diasporic style.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
It's an excellent book. That's why they chose to book
as a theme for this year. Yeah, no, go ahead, No,
that's it, and I think it's a fantastic theme. We
were very excited about. Yeah, everyone who was excited.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
The fact that they were writting black men at the
center of this not only this gala. Let's face, it
has been all about white women from the start.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
That's what I said previously. You know, it's always been
about white people, white designers celebrating white women.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Because who cares what the toxitos are wearing, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
So it's very exciting that it's about black style, is
about men's wear, is about a lot of stuff that
we usually don't talk.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
About, and it's certainly the McAllen never talks about. But
I also want to note that that is the Costume Institute,
the Costume Institute's exhibits theme, but that is not the
theme for the Metcala.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
It is.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
What the Mecala does is they take the exhibit and
then they use that as an inspiration for the actual theme.
And somewhat wisely, I think they didn't make the theme
black male dandyism because that would have represented a problem
for anyone who wasn't right well, the black man, you know.
So they made the theme tailored for you. So the
(31:46):
theme is about tailoring, which I thought was a smart
way to go. It left the door open for all
kinds of interpretations. You don't have to because honestly, if
they had made it black male dandies, and I said
this at the time, I was like, everyone would have
just showed up in a suit suit and that would
have been the end of it.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
And if you're black, then go to town, I mean, like,
you know where the most amazing things, because that's sort
of your theme in a way. So yeah, and I
think that's what kind of happened. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Oh, to no one's surprise, almost every black male attende
looked amazing. They supported a stunning outfit and you know,
and again to no surprise, most of the black women
in attendance wore amazing outfits because they would either interpret
black style in their clothing, or they paid homage to
(32:36):
you know, black icons, or they simply just wore outfits
that like Taeyana Taylor, well she basically came dressed as
a dandy. A lot of them did, a lot of
them came in in versions of suiting and that sort
of thing. And again, very very smart. I was very
interested to see how white ladies were going to do
with this, and we actually did a whole post today
(32:57):
on the site of all of the white ladies who
basically gypped out on the theme completely. And here's what
I'll say about that. I don't think it's terrible to
show up at the Metcala in a standard in standard
formal wear people do. All those socialites and billionaires are
not an insane outfit they do. And even when there
(33:20):
was camp and you know, the Catholic Church and all that,
there were still celebrities showing up in pretty gowns. So
I don't feel that we need to read too much
into the idea that a lot of white women showed
up in basic gowns. However, I was a little taken
aback because so many of them were basic and not
(33:40):
up to the level of the Metro.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I mean some of the looks, they look like something
you wear it to the You wouldn't even wear it
to the Oscars. No, it looks like something you wear
to the White House Correspondent, like dinner. That's an a.
I mean like the Lena their Rage dress. Oh my god,
Anne Hathaway dress. I know, I mean seriously, Oh and
I'm inspired by blah blah blah blah. No, you wear white.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
You wear a basic white girl dress because seriously, the theme
scared you off, so you went the whitest way pots. Yeah,
so or like hiding plume is in Like, No, I
have never seen Hidi Clumb in such a boring bann
in my entire life. And when you're doing that, it
makes me think that you pat like you just yeah,
(34:22):
you couldn't.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I guess they were very afraid that it would offend
someone offensive looks.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Well, I know some girlfriend showed up in a due rag.
I don't know who that was. It's not someone we covered,
but it became a thing and she was white, and yeah,
absolutely don't show up in some sort of hip hop
inspired you know.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
That's done, but you yeah. Or tailoring.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
There's so much tailoring. There's so much you.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Can explore that. I mean, I mean we Tom Brown,
you know, you guys know how much I worship him.
He had a whole table, huge table with a bunch
of people, and everybody looked amazing because it's all about tailoring,
and he does a fantastic job. So you can go
with that, you know, plead so whatever, like create something
beautiful that doesn't have to be necessarily dandy. Inspire. It
(35:09):
was nice to see a lot of It was nice
to see all these amazing not just African Americans, but
Black people in general wearing amazing stuff and h and
I mentioned this to you, and thank god. Stylists now
they have social media. They have Instagram accounts, and they
post a lot about their inspiration, which which is some
of them are fantastic. I mean, if you read all
(35:30):
the details and everything about you know how they created
the looks and how many hours and beating and all
that embroidery. There's so much.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
It's a chance for a lot of American designers to
indulge in oat couture, which we don't have an oat
couture in this country.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So and a lot of the stylists made sure to
hire black hair stylists, black makeup people. You know, that's
that's fantastic. But I think that's awesome. I hate when
when we take only one event, one time to celebrate
all these people. But whatever.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, it's like that famous Italian Vogue cover. Yeah, the
all black models on it, and they never did another.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
The all black model issue that we get every four years,
and we never hear about them again. But it's a
great opportunity to showcase all these amazing designers, not just
from the United States, but they had Mexican designers, they
had me, Nigerian design Nigerian designers, I mean amazing, Like, uh,
Maluma was wearing something amazing, you know he was.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Well, I just want to say, zoot suits are you
know they arose out of the African American community on
the West Coast, but they were quickly adopted by Hispanic
American men. It is a uniform, I mean not anymore,
but it was a uniform for black and Latin American men.
So to have people like Bad Bunny and Maluma show
(36:55):
up yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
I mean that Bunny was wearing a what do you
call a hat? You know? Yeah, yeah, made out of
poor Rican palm leaves. I mean, come on, that's the
stuff that it makes me cry because it's so beautiful.
It's so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
It's so beautiful that you got all these white ladies
showing up in basic, freaking basic golden globes gowns.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, seriously, doesn't get more. I mean, I know she's basic,
I know she's let, but she's just she has nothing
to do with that. No, she designed for white women.
She doesn't design at all Wes Gordon anyway. So it's
just it made me laft. When I saw Lena del
Raye and listen, I love her. I think she's extremely temp.
But when I saw her dress, I was like, what
is this? No, I can't.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
I want to say something here, but I think it
would be inflammatory.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
I just think it looked like something Laura Bush would wear.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Well that's what I wrote.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I feel like some people were flouting the uh the
theme deliberately, and I feel like she was one of them.
I like, there's a point at which like you're really
going out of your aggressively out of your way not
to embody the theme. And like I said, nobody has to.
Nobody has to.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I yes, But at the same time, I feel like
you have to also be careful with it because there's
something about being afraid to be offensive but also dismissive.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
That's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeahah yeah, And like, Okay, it's not your time, it's
somebody else put on some black dress. Yeah, it's not
your time, it's somebody else's time. But you can also
celebrate with it with that group, you know, right, in
a way that is not offensive. Right, So there are
ways you can sort of incorporate the theme of the
inspiration or whatever without wearing.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Some uncular Yes, it's a perfect example of how a
non black woman can can indulged in this. And she
wore a recreated a dress that was recreated from a
dress that Josephine Baker wore in the nineteen thirties. And
she's not the only Meganese Stallion also had a Josephine
Baker inspired But there are ways that you, as a
white person, can embody this theme and not show up
(39:00):
in a do rag, you know what I mean? You
can you can there's so many ways that you can
pay homage to black style, and the fact that it's
insane to me that anybody found this difficult to navigate, because,
let's face it, American culture, including fashion, is so inspired
by African American and black culture.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
It is it.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Woven all the way through our in our films and
our movies and our you know, literature, and in our style.
We I mean famously, white people have adopted the styles
of black people over and over and over again in
the last century. It would have been so easy.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I think, like co what's his name, Cola, Cola Scola. Yeah, yeah,
he wore Christopher John Rogers.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
That's the other thing you can do is wear a
black designer, or.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
You can wear something like he did, like because he's
kind of a clown and he wore something beautiful. They oh,
they A'm sorry, they wore something absolutely gorgeous, you know, colorful,
clownish in a way, because that's that's how they are.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
But and it was there. But it was dandy, it
was you did it. Yeah, it was shaped like a zoots.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah, it did it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
It wasn't hard. It wasn't hard for any white person
to show up in a way that embodied that paid
homage to the theme and not to repeat myself, no,
you do not need to dress to the theme. However,
I think the one time in the history of the
Mechala they they pay homage to black men. I think
everybody should have tried a little.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Harder, a little harder.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
You showing up in some basic awards season gown is
not I'm not impressed, and I'm looking side eye at
every single one of you.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I also mention that I think thoughue because they devote
so much time to put this whole thing together, I
think they would they should have a place on their
site later maybe or because they have all that information
to have the looks and explain a little more in
detail the inspiration for every single one of them. Because
when you go to the stylist social media, you know,
(40:59):
side it's like Instagram or whatever. There are so much
I know, there's so many details that you miss because I.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Wish Institute will actually put some of those designs, you know,
why wouldn't they like the the Lisa out You can't
tell unless you read about it or you're super super
close that there's face has woven into all of that
lace and it's.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
It's it's a it's an artist like that. Pharaoh Williams
is obsessed with you know, and then he did the
cover of the Vogue magazine. All that stuff adds so
much because just looking at pictures sometimes you don't get
all the details as much as I try my best
to show all the details, and you writing everything, but
(41:43):
again you miss a lot. And I wish they had
that information.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
I wish a piece on you know, just collect them
all and they have.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
They have the information. I mean, all you have to
do is just contact the designers in the stylist. You
get all the information. But again, I still think it's
a great event. It's one time that you get to
see so many amazing fashion I agree, you know, design
inspired by so many things, and people with a lot
of hours, you know, they they work hard to make
(42:18):
those looks incredible on the red carpet and all that.
I think it's great. I get very it's a celebration.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Yeah, craftsman shit, Yes, it's a fundraiser foreign art museum.
To me, the machala isn't that good in the world.
I know there's ostentation involved.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
I know that.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
You know, we're all living hard lives.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Right now.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
And maybe that's not what some of you want to see.
But as someone who makes their living doing this thing,
I think there's value in having a little sparkle and
glamour in your life and reminding and being reminded that
things like fashion can be incredibly beautiful and expressive works
of art. So, yeah, it's Vogue magazine, it's a bunch
(43:02):
of celebrities, it's a bunch of brands clamoring, you know,
to brand themselves. There's capitalism all through this thing. But yeah,
you're spending money celebration of art. Yes, you're spending money,
but you're also making money.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
But it's just how it is.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
That's true of any museum.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
But you also employe a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Yes, you know the amount of money this generates, the
amount of jobs it generates. Yes, and just imagine all
of those nail technicians, all of those hairstyles. Yes, they
all got so much work out of this. Imagine how
many photographers were able to pay their mortgage based on
that one night hotels everything, Yeah, the hotel exactly. And
(43:40):
also who work in the hotels and all the work
that they had to do, all the housekeepers in the hotel,
all of those people benefit from what the Mechala brings
to New York.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
And we also need the distrection, and yes, we.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Need the and Lorenzo and I need the money in that,
and we also need the money and we need the
money that.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
They go so that we can keep the site.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
So it's good all around. Do you have anything else
you want to add to that?
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Though? Very excited about the theme, And I put several
articles about it in the lounge and I highly recommend
that you go and read them because they're they're they're
interesting about the whole the theme and the.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Whole Yeah, man in New York. God put oh yes,
Costume Institute on your itinerary because it's worth it.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Especially.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
I haven't seen the super Fine exhibit yet, but I
will be seeing it now.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
So we've seen previous ones and they're amazing and they
are there's so much information and they're right there in
front of you, so you actually get to see so
many beautiful pieces. So yeah, I think it's great. Uh. Anyway,
I think Andrea Leon Talley would be very proud.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
We should that we haven't mentioned with that Ana Winter
has claimed, although she has claimed that his death inspired this,
And I thought they weren't speaking to each other at
the time he died or something.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
It's it's complicated. Their relationship was always very complicated.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, I'm actually disappointed there weren't more overt homages to
Andre leon tile Italian And actually that is a way.
So many women he wore these huge, luminous opera coats
and everything like that's you could have done that capes,
like it was obsessed with capes and that was We
did a piece where we showed how everyone was. So
(45:21):
many people chose hats to express their dandy. Very few
people wore capes, and that surprises the hell out of it, Like.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Wow, he loved those enormous voluminous Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
You want you would have been on things.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yes, exactly, huge one. Yeah, like amazing with beautiful. I
don't know beautiful.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
He wasn't amazing. I'll never forget. I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Uh it was show. It was Ralph Rucci.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
It was it was Ralph Erucci. Yes, you're right, Yes,
we went to a Ralph Ricci show during fashion week. Now,
Ralph Ercie isn't as well known because he doesn't do
like red carporate work or he doesn't have boutiques, but
he is an American couturier. He is actually certified amazing
and he does amazing, gorgeous work. And we went to
one of his few runway shows because he doesn't do
(46:06):
them anymore, and he hadn't done them for years. And
I remember we got there and you know, we always
tried to get there a little early so that we
could you know, situate ourselves and also to watch everyone
else walking in.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
And he.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Let me just say, when in fashion week, any show
during fashion week, you are given a an area to
sit on that I'm not joking. It's about besides of
a cocktail napkin.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
I sometimes that you would get close to your seats
and I would start laughing because there's no way, not.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Even one ass cheek is going to fit on that.
And you know, Andrew Leantalo Talley was an obese man.
He was a very large man. So when we got there,
he had his own chair was essentially a throne, and
he was up on stage because he would have screwed
up the line, yes, if they put a large chair
in the middle. So at this I felt some kind
(47:02):
of way about it because you could look at as Okay,
they're paying respect to the man, he's got us on
a chair, but he actually looked really embarrassed sitting up there.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
I thought, well, I know he had a huge ego,
but I mean, I don't know, it's just like put
the fat man up on the stage, Like that's not
the best way to do it. Granted, he navigated that
world for decades as a fat man, so he wants
up being used to so so much crap.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
Black gay, I mean, and fat and fat. I mean,
he he's an he was, he was complicated. He has
a massive ego, but he was extremely talented and he
did so much for the fashion industry. He's inspiration, you know,
always inspirational, like his contributions, everything about it. Yeah, there's
(47:49):
so much about the guy that is just amazing. You know,
this poor black guy who became this huge, amazing guy
in the fashion world. Uh, someone that.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
I wish that the night was more of a tribute
to him that I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
But she said some nice things. I watched a few
interviews with her and a Winter talking about him, and
he worshiped.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Her, I know he did, and she treated them like shit, But.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
She treats everyone like shit. She does, even her own family,
her own children. So so. Yeah. But but they they
I think they adore each other, adored adored each other. Yeah,
and uh, I just I don't know, but it's their
relationship was complicated. But anyway, I'm i'm I'm happy that
(48:37):
they even mentioned his name, even if it's not a
full blown, you know, inspiration or theme, but they celebrated him,
and I think it's well deserved. A greed.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Okay, now we are fully wrapped up. We have touched
on every single thing, and we'll be back next week
with whatever crosses our eyes across our desk. Until then,
take care of yourself, love you mean it.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
We adressing link a fan and basing us to expressing
links and a branding links in a Trice tanks and
address to extensions
We're Tomy Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest.
Hello kittens, welcome back to another edition of the PSO.
I am the team, your tel Toe Fitzgerald, and I'm
here with the low and your Tilo Lorenzo. It is
metcal a week. We are freaking exhausted. But as I
said to yeah, as I said to Lorenzo earlier today,
(00:44):
it's so easy.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
It is.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
It is so easy when you're faced with five hundred
completely insane outfits that you have to you know, get
through for the week. That is easy.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
As I said.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Too, I'm like when it's something like you know, Julia
Louise Dreype has that Good Morning America. Literally those posts
take three times as long because it's like, what am
I going to say about a basic day dress? I know,
but you know everyone's showing up in encrusted in pearls
and diamonds, and so there's just it's fun. As much
as as much work as the mechala is. It is
(01:18):
the busiest week of our year born none.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Oh yeah, thanks to you.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
As much work as it is, it's not hard work
at all, not even a little bit. It's just time consuming.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
It's you know.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I mean, we're exhausted because it's it's it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
To compile, yeah, a lot to write. It's not difficult,
but it's fun, you know, it's fun to find out
who they're wearing, the inspiration, you know, all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
And even for Lorenzo, who does all of the research
for all of these posts, even that's easier because a
lot of these design houses are putting that information out fairly.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Quint have changed. I remember when we started our site,
there was very little out there about who they were
wearing all that stuff. Now there's like massive information I
mean about everything about the nails, the hair, and the makeup.
I love it. I absolutely love that because I think
all these people deserve the recognition for doing amazing job.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, we've been doing this long enough that we've been
able to sort of chart the differences in how the
mechala is perceived and it's been interesting to watch. We're
going to, if we haven't made it clear by now,
devote most of this podcast to discussing the mechala. We're
not going to do our favorite looks or least favorite
looks or any.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Of that still on the site, because that's what the
site's for.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
It, But we're going to give you a little bit
of history, a little bit of talk about themes. Look
at some of the controversies will always erupt around the
Mecala every year. And yeah, we're just going to bat
it around a little bit. But before we do that,
we're both going to weigh in a little bit on television.
I'm just going to briefly talk about and Or. I
(02:58):
never planned on doing much about it, right, I wasn't
going to do extensive recapping of it every week because
you know, they released three hours of it at a time,
and it and I'm already behind right, the two tuesdays
have passed since the show, since we last recorded, and
(03:20):
so now there are six episodes and I haven't even
seen the last two. So my point is this, I
want to briefly mention that, yes, I am still fully
on board with this show. I still think it's honestly,
it is the best show on television right now. It
is complicated. It is dark in a way that is
(03:44):
not you know, when you use the word dark to
describe any sort of pop culture item, it usually is
a default for something that's depressing or violent or something
like that. I don't mean it in that sense. I
mean it's dark in the sense that it looks at
the darkness of the human soul in a way that
Star Wars just never ever has before. It's smart, and
(04:07):
it's complicated, and it takes its time with certain things.
It doesn't over explain certain things. It expects you to
keep up. And I truly, truly love a television show
that does not spoon feed its audience. And the fact
of the matter is, with Star Wars, that is a
(04:30):
genre and it is an esthetic a type of film
that has always spoon fed its audience. That's, you know,
partially because Star Wars was devised for children initially, and
even now, like and Or, is not a show for
children at all. They would be completely bored by most
of it. It's a lot of speeches given by senators
(04:52):
and that sort of thing. But it still has a
certain childlike sense of fun to it because as much
as it can and be an examination of say, fascism
and resistance movements, there's still little guys walking around, little
Star Wars guys, some fluffy furry thing or some lizard
headed thing, and there's little talking drawers. So it has
(05:14):
that sense of the familiar, and it is one of
the more interesting takes on Star Wars. In something that
Tony Gilroy, the creator of the show, did with this
show is that he made it the most familiar of
all Star Wars stories. And by that I mean like,
(05:36):
for instance, in the second set of episodes, Cassiing goes
under cover in Space France, he goes to Gorman and
while the Gorman set didn't specifically evoke Paris, in fact,
they said later it was it was based more on
(05:59):
northern Italian, say, who's like tourin the European influence on
the design of that set was very, very obvious, and
of course as soon as every Gorman opened their mouth,
you could tell that they based the language on French.
Every actor they cast except for the one guy who
was German, but every other actor on Gorman was a
French actor, and they said they all took to the
(06:21):
fake language because it used French sounds. A lot of
times when fake languages are devised, there's a specific sort.
It's usually a combination of English and Spanish sounds, and
that's how fake languages tend to be divised. But you
never hear one with the actual you know, sounds that
(06:42):
French people make when they talk, so that this is
what I mean about the familiar, and and or checks
into a hotel, which you know, okay, I guess there's
hotels in Star Wars, and the hotel room basically looks
like a hotel room. I mean, it's a little outer space,
but it just looks like a luxury hotel room. It's
all stuff like that. Or there's Monday morning talk shows
(07:04):
that you know. I didn't even think they had television
in Star Wars. I thought everything was holograms. And there
are times when I think that is slightly overplayed because
it stops feeling like Star Wars and starts feeling a
little bit too much like here. But I do think
the Gorman stuff is fascinating because it is so clearly
modeled on the French resistance, while at the same time
(07:27):
it is essentially unpacking the conflict in Gaza. And I
don't know when this was shot or written. It may
have all been devised before things erupted in twenty twenty three,
but of course that has been an ongoing conflict for
seventy eighty years now, and it's very clear that they
(07:49):
are basing a lot of this on real world stuff,
and you never ever see that in Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
You just don't.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
And maybe there's an argument to be made from the
hardcore fans that when you start doing that, it stops
being Star Wars. When you start making allegory for real
for the real world, or when you you know, when
people are watching television shows and checking into hotels, that
doesn't feel like Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Right, Just one thing I actually posted in the lounge
about the creator gave an interview to the Hollywood Report
about it. They begin production Novimba twenty twenty two. They
and they wrapped around February twenty twenty four. So he
said that although they didn't have that in mind, but
it's there. It's there. Yeah. They talk about things like
(08:36):
that happening all the time in the world, right, and
you know.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
The way it actually it sometimes it gets uncomfortably close
to where we are right right now in the world,
and Star Wars has never done that. So I'm rambling here,
But long story short, I'm still in it. I'm still
fascinated by it. I think if you're a Star Wars
purest you might have a little problem with how some
(09:01):
of this is a little topical and a little too familiar,
but for me, it's working, and I just want to
wrap up and say, this is probably the last time
I'm going to talk about it on the podcast, because
I think when the season is done, when the series
is done, we'll do a write up. It's important enough,
and I'm so fired up that I'm like, yeah, I'm
gonna I'm going to bang out two thousand words on
(09:22):
this the next morning.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I can tell you I have read and seen so
many interviews with what's her name, Genevieve O'Reilly or Yeah,
she's so amazing. She's so amazing talking about her character
and the speech and everything she gave. I just think
it's fascinating that I haven't watched the show yet, but
everything I've seen out there sounds like very sophisticated TV.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
To me, it is now and that's all I'm going
to say on it. Right right, I'm going to toss
to you because you have a TV show that I
haven't watched.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, I was very excited about a show on Netflix
called The Four Seasons, based on the movie from nineteen
eighty one. I believe The Four Seasons a very famous movie.
So Tina Fey decided to create the show kind of
inspired by the movie, which is about friends meeting. I
(10:15):
guess every new season they meet. That's why it's called
the Four Seasons. And they you know, they spend time
together as you know, vacating whatever, they're just on vacation,
and they they they spend time together as friends. So
I was very excited about it. It's a great cast.
I watched the screeners a long time ago. I couldn't
(10:38):
talk about it, so I was just waiting for it
to drop. And then I started reading the reviews, and
the reviews are the reviews are not great, and I'm
not surprised. I think tenth it gets too much inspired
by a movie from nineteen eighty one. I think it
feels dated to me. The story is kind of dated,
(10:58):
kind of a cliche, the friends, in the situations that
they find themselves into. I just don't like it. I
think it's a missed opportunity here to have a show
about friends meeting, you know, on vacation. They meet once
a year or twice a year or whatever. And then
I think it's a missed opportunity to talk about issues
(11:19):
that friends, longtime friends face. Now everything to me felt
very much of a cliche, you know, the fights, the
dialogue and everything. It was just I don't know, I'm
gonna say something here that people are gonna hate me
for it, but I'll say it anyway. I think Tina
Faith kind of dated hermiteer feels very dated. I think
it hasn't developed. I don't know, it feels very dated,
(11:43):
and I would actually I started watching the show and
I felt like, Oh, is this a pear piece? Are
they supposed to be in the seventies.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I actually heard a couple of people say that that
it felt very boomer baby boomer.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Because of that, because everything is so dated and sort
of a cliche. Things being discussed are so like dated.
So yeah, at first I was like, oh, there, I
guess they're in the seventies or eighties. But then I
saw the car. Yeah, I saw the cars and everything else,
and I was like, oh no, no, and I'm And
(12:15):
one thing that I hate is that I was very
excited about Calmin Domingo. I'll watch anything with that guy.
I love him. And he plays a gay guy and
he has a husband played by Marco Calvanni. Marco Cavanni
is an actor and director Italian actor and director. Very
talented guy. But he uh again I'm gonna say it. Uh,
he plays his very gay character. Nothing wrong about you
(12:39):
know what, very flambloyant gay man. I mean, they're out there.
I'm not judging being flamboyant, but I thought it was
an interesting choice given everything else around them, you know,
around this group of people. So I don't know, I
just didn't believe it. He's way flamable for the character,
(13:01):
I think, and it just threw me off. I'm like,
oh my god. Anyway, so I'm curious if you have
watched it, let me know in a comment section what
you thought about it. But it's a great cast. Again,
I felt like, here's an opportunity to talk about issues
being friends, you know, longtime friends, and I don't know,
(13:22):
you just felt very dated and I was really disappointing.
Didn't like it at all. So anyway, that's it the
fourth season on Netflix. Great cast. I mean, these people
are very talented, Yeah, but the materia is very very
very old.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah to me, interested in it. Yeah, all right, we're
gonna take a short break and then we're coming back
with lots of thoughts about the met Gala. We're back
and now we're going to chat about the twenty twenty
five met Gala. There's much We're just gonna sort of
touch on a bunch of different topics. I'm gonna let's
start with this. Uh one, No, I would never take
(13:57):
a picture and put it on social media because we
don't like taking pictures of our house or anything like that.
But I know people have asked what is a night?
What's it like for Tila on Oscars night or Metcala
night or whatever like that, And I'm just going to
run this down for you. Number One, we spend all
day like nervous, like, oh my god, We've got so
much work to do. We're going to get it done.
(14:17):
We have to get it done because you have to understand, Okay,
the night of the Megala, there's two jobs happening. The
first job is Lorenzo's job, and Lorenzo's job is sourcing pictures,
legal pictures. That's the other thing is that because we
are a business, we don't pull an We don't pull
like Getty image pictures with the water with the watermark
on them, because I know everybody does that, but you
(14:39):
leave yourself open to a lawsuit. So we don't do that.
We wait for legal pictures that we are allowed to
license ourselves, and then Lorenzo gets those pictures, finds out
what the person is wearing, and that stuff goes up
on social media in as timely a manner as Lorenzo
can manage, and me describing that to you does not
(14:59):
even come close to just to to letting you know
how much pressure Lorenzo was under when that's got I have.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Like twenty five windows open at the same time. I'm
trying to get the information to make sure the information
is correct. I tried to get a nice picture.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
He's usually on the couch. Yeah, his laptop pop, you know,
propped on his knees. Cats and the E is playing
in the background, and there's cats everywhere. I am sitting
at my desk. I have the Vogue live feed because
I find the E annoying. Well, the thing is, the
thing about E is it's a damn shame. They They
(15:34):
really lost their whole red carpet. They were literally where
you went to for the red carpet. And as much
as I complained about people like Juliana and Ryan Seacrest,
they actually did know what they were doing.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
They were actually good at it. I think there were
so many, so much backlash. It started with the whole
z India thing, remember when they had that show, all
that stuff. The fact that we don't have that anymore,
don't have a lot of people who used to cover
the show anymore. So it feels like they just hand
the job to these people who are not that great,
(16:07):
and it's not that great. I don't want to be
too bitchy.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Go ahead, Christian Carian, it's amazing.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
He's going to get fired. He is going to get fired.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Listen. I have spent two decades making my career out
of being a bitch about what people are wearing. Famous
people are wearing. And it is not an easy line
to walk. And this is why you know he has
mostly given up, is because they they've they've screwed up
with that Sandaea thing. It's difficult to be bitchy and
(16:38):
not cross a line, right, And we're still here, the
Thud Girls are still here after all of these years,
because the four of us are actually very good at that.
We're very good at being bitchy about what people wear
without ever crossing a line where we're getting nasty.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
There are certain things we would never talk about you know,
their their their body sliders.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
So our antennae are always up about, you know, body
shaming on our site. It's because, I mean, any red
carpet commenter has to be on top of this and
make sure that it's not creeping into their work. But
if your male red carpet commentaries, you are spending a
(17:18):
significant amount of time critiquing the style choice, critiquing how
women look. So you have to be very we have
to be very very careful and make sure. I don't
know if you remember a couple of years back, I
wasn't that long ago, Olivia Munn went after the fuggirls
on her social media and I remember thinking at the time,
(17:38):
this is my nightmare. This is my nightmare that some
female celebrity is going to single us out and send
her hordes of people after us.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
They've done it.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
She was not really not well, not on that line now.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
But we had cases of people anyway. Yeah, but I
see what you're say, not on a public level that
everyone is talking about, like what happened with the FuG girls.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
So yeah, this ie, I don't want to be called
a misogynist and some people are just gonna call me that. No,
matter what I say or do. And some people think
that to even be in fashion commentary is a form
of misogyny. But and I can't do anything about those people.
But we have worked very hard, we very very hard
(18:20):
to avoid that kind of blowback on our site, on
our work, and that's why we're so strict about not
doing any sort of body commentary.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
So I also want to emphasize it. The reason why
we don't do body commentary is not just because of
the we're afraid of 's wrong. Well, right, I was
just about say that, not just because we're afraid we're
gonna get, you know, criticized by it's just that we
don't believe in it. Yeah, I don't think it's right.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
It's about for us, it's always about the choice is
made in the outfit, in the design, in the accessorizing.
It's not about what they wear. Florence Pugh recently gave
an interview complaining about this, and I was like.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Is she talking about us?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Where she said how much he hates the red carpet
and how she hates that you go out there and
they write about you the next day and they're they're
putting up pictures of models wearing the same output on
the runway, which is something we do.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Oh my god, she said that.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
And she said, and they're comparing you to the model
on the runway. And I found that's not I felt briefly,
but well, she may not have been talking about us.
I mean, we're not the only people.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
In the game. Well, we don't do that.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
We're not the only people in the game. But it
did make me pause and think, all right, I'm glad
that we don't do that. We don't. We actually don't
compare it to the model, except to note this is
not appropriate for you know, it's only only a model
could pull this off. That's the only time we ever
compare someone to the model.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
We had the runway look for several reason. One of
them is so that you can look you can actually
see what was created and how it was created and
compared to what how it was adapted to the person.
That's number one. And I think that's that's I think
that's healthy to look at it as something and say
this is not for me, but I think I can
adapt this to me, right, So I think that's how
(20:00):
I don't see a problem with that. And we have
the picture all the way at the bottom. We don't
have it as we used to, like side by side
or next to each other. That yeah, I can see
you look.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Then it becomes it becomes more I mean, Florence is
short and not model shape.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I can I can see you getting annoyed with that.
That it's it's there side by.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
Side, and which we don't do anymore, right, we don't
do the side by side comparison. Anyway, Back to what
McAllen night is like I am on my computer, I've
got the Vogue live feed going, and I am trying
to compile a list for the article that I am
going to be writing for Cosmopolitan that night. And usually
you try and get it in by about nine point
(20:38):
thirty so that it's live on the site by about
eleven PM so and people to start showing up around six.
So I have about a three hour window where I
am compiling looks and I'm talking to my editor at Cosmo,
and I'm writing this thing up and at the same time,
I'm yelling out to Lorenzo who's Joey King wearing? Who's
this one wearing? So that's ourn and then when I
(21:02):
file the Cosmo pece and Lorenzo was done, and that's
usually around eleven pm. Then we have cake and then
I pop an edible. But that's basically our metcalaite. It's
not glamorous, it's it's it's stressful, and it's a lot
of work and I love we love it.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
We get up the next day excited about it because
we love fashion. We love to talk about these things.
And I think the met Gala is very interesting because
it's just not fashion, but it's also celebrating something. And
I think this brats and Arstree and this year is
very very special. No matter how you feel about it,
I think this year was a very special time and
(21:39):
theme because you know, usually white people are the only
ones being celebrated all the time, so it's nice to
see that it is different. It's about you know, it's
about all types of people, and it's about in this
case specific black people.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Oh yeah, we should note that they Let's let's do
a little right right explanation of the mecala because we're
Ryan do this every year because all this stuff is
known to us and if you read us with any regularity,
you probably know it too. But it's a good idea
to keep reminding people every year So the Megala is
a fundraiser for the Metropolitan Museum's Costume Institute, which is
(22:21):
run partially by Anna Wintor. She's you know, and she
runs the Metcala. It raises funds for that institute. It
is not a lot of times every year, and this
year especially because of you know, the presidential administration and
all the fuckery that's going on right now this year
(22:42):
in particular, a lot of people we need to cancel this.
And oh, Jack Schlasberg, Caroline Schlosberg's son, And it should
be noted that Jacqueline Kennedy, his grandmother, was very instrumental
in getting the mechala re established sixty years ago. So
but he came out with this needs to be canceled
because Trump is present, and that's just not the point
(23:04):
of any of this. And every year people are like,
it's the Hunger Games, and no, it's not not not
the point either. It's not I know, from the outside,
it looks like just a bunch of rich people dripping
in diamonds, and and I'm not denying that it is that.
But it is an actual, legitimate fundraiser for an actual museum,
(23:25):
and it is used. That money is used for that.
No one's getting rich off the Met Gala. They're funding
an art museum.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
And this year they raise a record breaking thirty one million,
you know, right, this is not the Hunger Games, right.
I mean, it's a lot of money, money that they need, right,
and it's a good cause. So it's good. It's it's
a good thing that you know, and I went to
a created Actually now it is a good thing. It's
a good thing. I mean, and you you know, you
might say, well, why don't we have another gala for
(23:54):
something else more important or you know.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Well there's galas every month, so it's fine, there's cancer galas, right,
Laediatric Aids galas, and so let's keep creating them, yeah,
and raising money for good things.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
But that's a good thing. The Met Gala does a
good job. It was a good thing that way to
create it and and that and it's opportunity for people
to dress up and look good and of course you're
gonna find and yeah, of course you're gonna you know,
invite celebrities because that's how you get the attention of
the people you.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Get yeah, I mean, uh, the Metcala wasn't always as
celebrity have avery as it is now.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
It is.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
One of the developments that Anna Winter did was to
make it a huge celebrity event. But uh and sometimes
you know, there is some criticism for that that it
became all of it because you have to understand, there's
a bunch of really wealthy socialites that are walking that
red carpet as well, but you know.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
They're just don't see them.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah they're not featured. And businessmen and and and billion
a lot of money, right, they're all there too, But
it's the it's the celebrities that bring the press, that
bring all the excitement because no one cares what some
social aid or a billionaire is wearing.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So uh, no, go ahead, you let me just talk
a little bit about how how celebrities get invited. So
first of all, you have to pay for a table,
you know, so that you can get designers usually, so
it's usually the designers. The house is the fashion houses.
They pay for that table, and they sort of get
to invite whoever they want. But there are also suggesting
(25:25):
from suggestion from a Winter involgue and everybody else involved
who to invite. So there's sort of like a collaboration
and agreement who's going to get invited for each table,
for each designer. So that's how celebrities get invited. They
don't pay a dime, but the designers due, the houses due,
they pay a lot of money for that table. And
(25:45):
whoever has more money, you know, gets to invite more people, right,
bigger table.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
And the tables are what three hundred and fifty thousand, Yeah,
I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
I don't remember the exact amount right now. But it's
a lot of money. I mean, you have to have
money to be able to invite all these people because
then you have to provide all the clothes. I mean,
it's a lot of expense. It's a lot of money spent,
uh to attend this event. So that's how it happens.
And and you know, in the past, everyone talked about
how how Anna Winter you know, approves everything she's in,
(26:18):
She's controlling everything. And I think that was true at
some point, but I don't think any I think she's
way more flexible now.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
People wore on and Kanye showed up right right.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
I mean, once you have the Kardashian's on the red carpet,
I mean you can't really say that you have a
lot of control. It's very much. Whoever has the biggest,
you know, accounts on social media. That's pretty much how
that's how it is now. And uh and people because
people were saying, oh and and hathway and and uh
(26:49):
so why uh they pretty much wore the same thing,
and oh, I'm sorry. Sandya wore a Louis Vuitton suit,
a white suit, and Anda so I wore a white
suit deor to and they look very very similar. And
people were saying, well, you know, they keep saying that,
and in ware to approve every look, she wouldn't approve
those two looks, you know, which is kind of true
(27:10):
if she wasn't, you know, controlling everything.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I don't mean to sound ageist or anything, but I
think she's she's looking pretty checked out. So I think
it's time for her to step down.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah, I well, a lot of things, but anyway, but
magazine and everything else. But so, I don't think she
controls the way she used to, if that's ever true
that she controlled that much, you know, But anyway, so
I think it's a lot more flexible now. You know,
you're not supposed to use the phone, but you see
(27:42):
a lot of celebrities using the phone. Now you're not
supposed to smoke, and Madonna's right there smoking her cigar,
so I guess, you know, it depends on how big
you are too. Who's going to tell Madonna not to
smoke a cigarette, right or a cigar? So so it's
interesting to see that it has becoming I don't know
it it's more flexible now. I think it's pretty much
(28:03):
about who's going to bring the biggest numbers in terms
of people following them.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, so because a lot of times you'll see like
especially on social I mean, it's really interesting. We alluded
to the changes that we've seen with the Meccalaugh and
the time that we've been commenting on it, and the
biggest change is how it is received on social media.
I mean, when we first started doing the Mechcala, I'm
not even sure if we had a Twitter account at
that point, and now it has. You know, it is
(28:32):
an event that is entirely on social media essentially, like
everybody checks in. I know from experience that people who
have zero interest in fashion, red carpets or celebrities will
tune in for the met Gala and offer their opinions,
and those usually the people that are they'll tend to
(28:53):
be the first ones to make the Hunger Games comparisons
and that sort of thing, because they're not really.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Knowledgeable about that.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And I get it. I mean, you know, if you
don't want to look at really wealthy people dripping in
diamonds and you know, outfits that are worth more than
your house, believe me, that's a completely understandable impulse. All right,
I think we've explained the setup.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, so that's how pretty much how it works. No,
go ahead, No, that's it. That's it how it works
in general.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Yeah, so why don't we go to a break and
then we'll come back and we'll talk about the themes
and what's up with all the white ladies. We'll be
right back. We're back, and I think we completed our
task of setting up the explanation of what the Mencala
is for all of you. Now we're going to talk
(29:43):
about the themes. It's and this is something that people
generally do not understand or they need to be reminded
every single year. First off, that the cost the Mencala
is not a costume party, so people don't have to
come up coming cost Second, the mech Gala theme is
(30:03):
it is a themed gala every year, and that theme
is based on whatever the Costume Institute is exhibiting at
that time, and they go hand in hand with each other.
So the Costume Institute currently has an exhibit based on
Monica Miller's book super Fine Tailoring Black Style. That is
(30:26):
what the exhibit is based on. It is an examination
of black male dandyism and African American diasporic style.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
It's an excellent book. That's why they chose to book
as a theme for this year. Yeah, no, go ahead, No,
that's it, and I think it's a fantastic theme. We
were very excited about. Yeah, everyone who was excited.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
The fact that they were writting black men at the
center of this not only this gala. Let's face, it
has been all about white women from the start.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
That's what I said previously. You know, it's always been
about white people, white designers celebrating white women.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Because who cares what the toxitos are wearing, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
So it's very exciting that it's about black style, is
about men's wear, is about a lot of stuff that
we usually don't talk.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
About, and it's certainly the McAllen never talks about. But
I also want to note that that is the Costume Institute,
the Costume Institute's exhibits theme, but that is not the
theme for the Metcala.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
It is.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
What the Mecala does is they take the exhibit and
then they use that as an inspiration for the actual theme.
And somewhat wisely, I think they didn't make the theme
black male dandyism because that would have represented a problem
for anyone who wasn't right well, the black man, you know.
So they made the theme tailored for you. So the
(31:46):
theme is about tailoring, which I thought was a smart
way to go. It left the door open for all
kinds of interpretations. You don't have to because honestly, if
they had made it black male dandies, and I said
this at the time, I was like, everyone would have
just showed up in a suit suit and that would
have been the end of it.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
And if you're black, then go to town, I mean, like,
you know where the most amazing things, because that's sort
of your theme in a way. So yeah, and I
think that's what kind of happened. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Oh, to no one's surprise, almost every black male attende
looked amazing. They supported a stunning outfit and you know,
and again to no surprise, most of the black women
in attendance wore amazing outfits because they would either interpret
black style in their clothing, or they paid homage to
(32:36):
you know, black icons, or they simply just wore outfits
that like Taeyana Taylor, well she basically came dressed as
a dandy. A lot of them did, a lot of
them came in in versions of suiting and that sort
of thing. And again, very very smart. I was very
interested to see how white ladies were going to do
with this, and we actually did a whole post today
(32:57):
on the site of all of the white ladies who
basically gypped out on the theme completely. And here's what
I'll say about that. I don't think it's terrible to
show up at the Metcala in a standard in standard
formal wear people do. All those socialites and billionaires are
not an insane outfit they do. And even when there
(33:20):
was camp and you know, the Catholic Church and all that,
there were still celebrities showing up in pretty gowns. So
I don't feel that we need to read too much
into the idea that a lot of white women showed
up in basic gowns. However, I was a little taken
aback because so many of them were basic and not
(33:40):
up to the level of the Metro.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I mean some of the looks, they look like something
you wear it to the You wouldn't even wear it
to the Oscars. No, it looks like something you wear
to the White House Correspondent, like dinner. That's an a.
I mean like the Lena their Rage dress. Oh my god,
Anne Hathaway dress. I know, I mean seriously, Oh and
I'm inspired by blah blah blah blah. No, you wear white.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
You wear a basic white girl dress because seriously, the theme
scared you off, so you went the whitest way pots. Yeah,
so or like hiding plume is in Like, No, I
have never seen Hidi Clumb in such a boring bann
in my entire life. And when you're doing that, it
makes me think that you pat like you just yeah,
(34:22):
you couldn't.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I guess they were very afraid that it would offend
someone offensive looks.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Well, I know some girlfriend showed up in a due rag.
I don't know who that was. It's not someone we covered,
but it became a thing and she was white, and yeah,
absolutely don't show up in some sort of hip hop
inspired you know.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
That's done, but you yeah. Or tailoring.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
There's so much tailoring. There's so much you.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Can explore that. I mean, I mean we Tom Brown,
you know, you guys know how much I worship him.
He had a whole table, huge table with a bunch
of people, and everybody looked amazing because it's all about tailoring,
and he does a fantastic job. So you can go
with that, you know, plead so whatever, like create something
beautiful that doesn't have to be necessarily dandy. Inspire. It
(35:09):
was nice to see a lot of It was nice
to see all these amazing not just African Americans, but
Black people in general wearing amazing stuff and h and
I mentioned this to you, and thank god. Stylists now
they have social media. They have Instagram accounts, and they
post a lot about their inspiration, which which is some
of them are fantastic. I mean, if you read all
(35:30):
the details and everything about you know how they created
the looks and how many hours and beating and all
that embroidery. There's so much.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
It's a chance for a lot of American designers to
indulge in oat couture, which we don't have an oat
couture in this country.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
So and a lot of the stylists made sure to
hire black hair stylists, black makeup people. You know, that's
that's fantastic. But I think that's awesome. I hate when
when we take only one event, one time to celebrate
all these people. But whatever.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yeah, it's like that famous Italian Vogue cover. Yeah, the
all black models on it, and they never did another.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
The all black model issue that we get every four years,
and we never hear about them again. But it's a
great opportunity to showcase all these amazing designers, not just
from the United States, but they had Mexican designers, they
had me, Nigerian design Nigerian designers, I mean amazing, Like, uh,
Maluma was wearing something amazing, you know he was.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Well, I just want to say, zoot suits are you
know they arose out of the African American community on
the West Coast, but they were quickly adopted by Hispanic
American men. It is a uniform, I mean not anymore,
but it was a uniform for black and Latin American men.
So to have people like Bad Bunny and Maluma show
(36:55):
up yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
I mean that Bunny was wearing a what do you
call a hat? You know? Yeah, yeah, made out of
poor Rican palm leaves. I mean, come on, that's the
stuff that it makes me cry because it's so beautiful.
It's so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
It's so beautiful that you got all these white ladies
showing up in basic, freaking basic golden globes gowns.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, seriously, doesn't get more. I mean, I know she's basic,
I know she's let, but she's just she has nothing
to do with that. No, she designed for white women.
She doesn't design at all Wes Gordon anyway. So it's
just it made me laft. When I saw Lena del
Raye and listen, I love her. I think she's extremely temp.
But when I saw her dress, I was like, what
is this? No, I can't.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
I want to say something here, but I think it
would be inflammatory.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
I just think it looked like something Laura Bush would wear.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Well that's what I wrote.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I feel like some people were flouting the uh the
theme deliberately, and I feel like she was one of them.
I like, there's a point at which like you're really
going out of your aggressively out of your way not
to embody the theme. And like I said, nobody has to.
Nobody has to.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I yes, But at the same time, I feel like
you have to also be careful with it because there's
something about being afraid to be offensive but also dismissive.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
That's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeahah yeah, And like, Okay, it's not your time, it's
somebody else put on some black dress. Yeah, it's not
your time, it's somebody else's time. But you can also
celebrate with it with that group, you know, right, in
a way that is not offensive. Right, So there are
ways you can sort of incorporate the theme of the
inspiration or whatever without wearing.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Some uncular Yes, it's a perfect example of how a
non black woman can can indulged in this. And she
wore a recreated a dress that was recreated from a
dress that Josephine Baker wore in the nineteen thirties. And
she's not the only Meganese Stallion also had a Josephine
Baker inspired But there are ways that you, as a
white person, can embody this theme and not show up
(39:00):
in a do rag, you know what I mean? You
can you can there's so many ways that you can
pay homage to black style, and the fact that it's
insane to me that anybody found this difficult to navigate, because,
let's face it, American culture, including fashion, is so inspired
by African American and black culture.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
It is it.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Woven all the way through our in our films and
our movies and our you know, literature, and in our style.
We I mean famously, white people have adopted the styles
of black people over and over and over again in
the last century. It would have been so easy.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I think, like co what's his name, Cola, Cola Scola. Yeah, yeah,
he wore Christopher John Rogers.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
That's the other thing you can do is wear a
black designer, or.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
You can wear something like he did, like because he's
kind of a clown and he wore something beautiful. They oh,
they A'm sorry, they wore something absolutely gorgeous, you know, colorful,
clownish in a way, because that's that's how they are.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
But and it was there. But it was dandy, it
was you did it. Yeah, it was shaped like a zoots.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah, it did it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
It wasn't hard. It wasn't hard for any white person
to show up in a way that embodied that paid
homage to the theme and not to repeat myself, no,
you do not need to dress to the theme. However,
I think the one time in the history of the
Mechala they they pay homage to black men. I think
everybody should have tried a little.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Harder, a little harder.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
You showing up in some basic awards season gown is
not I'm not impressed, and I'm looking side eye at
every single one of you.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
I also mention that I think thoughue because they devote
so much time to put this whole thing together, I
think they would they should have a place on their
site later maybe or because they have all that information
to have the looks and explain a little more in
detail the inspiration for every single one of them. Because
when you go to the stylist social media, you know,
(40:59):
side it's like Instagram or whatever. There are so much
I know, there's so many details that you miss because I.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Wish Institute will actually put some of those designs, you know,
why wouldn't they like the the Lisa out You can't
tell unless you read about it or you're super super
close that there's face has woven into all of that
lace and it's.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
It's it's a it's an artist like that. Pharaoh Williams
is obsessed with you know, and then he did the
cover of the Vogue magazine. All that stuff adds so
much because just looking at pictures sometimes you don't get
all the details as much as I try my best
to show all the details, and you writing everything, but
(41:43):
again you miss a lot. And I wish they had
that information.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
I wish a piece on you know, just collect them
all and they have.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
They have the information. I mean, all you have to
do is just contact the designers in the stylist. You
get all the information. But again, I still think it's
a great event. It's one time that you get to
see so many amazing fashion I agree, you know, design
inspired by so many things, and people with a lot
of hours, you know, they they work hard to make
(42:18):
those looks incredible on the red carpet and all that.
I think it's great. I get very it's a celebration.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Yeah, craftsman shit, Yes, it's a fundraiser foreign art museum.
To me, the machala isn't that good in the world.
I know there's ostentation involved.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
I know that.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
You know, we're all living hard lives.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Right now.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
And maybe that's not what some of you want to see.
But as someone who makes their living doing this thing,
I think there's value in having a little sparkle and
glamour in your life and reminding and being reminded that
things like fashion can be incredibly beautiful and expressive works
of art. So, yeah, it's Vogue magazine, it's a bunch
(43:02):
of celebrities, it's a bunch of brands clamoring, you know,
to brand themselves. There's capitalism all through this thing. But yeah,
you're spending money celebration of art. Yes, you're spending money,
but you're also making money.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
But it's just how it is.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
That's true of any museum.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
But you also employe a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Yes, you know the amount of money this generates, the
amount of jobs it generates. Yes, and just imagine all
of those nail technicians, all of those hairstyles. Yes, they
all got so much work out of this. Imagine how
many photographers were able to pay their mortgage based on
that one night hotels everything, Yeah, the hotel exactly. And
(43:40):
also who work in the hotels and all the work
that they had to do, all the housekeepers in the hotel,
all of those people benefit from what the Mechala brings
to New York.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
And we also need the distrection, and yes, we.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Need the and Lorenzo and I need the money in that,
and we also need the money and we need the
money that.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
They go so that we can keep the site.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
So it's good all around. Do you have anything else
you want to add to that?
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Though? Very excited about the theme, And I put several
articles about it in the lounge and I highly recommend
that you go and read them because they're they're they're
interesting about the whole the theme and the.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Whole Yeah, man in New York. God put oh yes,
Costume Institute on your itinerary because it's worth it.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Especially.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
I haven't seen the super Fine exhibit yet, but I
will be seeing it now.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
So we've seen previous ones and they're amazing and they
are there's so much information and they're right there in
front of you, so you actually get to see so
many beautiful pieces. So yeah, I think it's great. Uh. Anyway,
I think Andrea Leon Talley would be very proud.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
We should that we haven't mentioned with that Ana Winter
has claimed, although she has claimed that his death inspired this,
And I thought they weren't speaking to each other at
the time he died or something.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
It's it's complicated. Their relationship was always very complicated.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, I'm actually disappointed there weren't more overt homages to
Andre leon tile Italian And actually that is a way.
So many women he wore these huge, luminous opera coats
and everything like that's you could have done that capes,
like it was obsessed with capes and that was We
did a piece where we showed how everyone was. So
(45:21):
many people chose hats to express their dandy. Very few
people wore capes, and that surprises the hell out of it, Like.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Wow, he loved those enormous voluminous Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:31):
You want you would have been on things.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Yes, exactly, huge one. Yeah, like amazing with beautiful. I
don't know beautiful.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
He wasn't amazing. I'll never forget. I can't remember.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Uh it was show. It was Ralph Rucci.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
It was it was Ralph Erucci. Yes, you're right, Yes,
we went to a Ralph Ricci show during fashion week. Now,
Ralph Ercie isn't as well known because he doesn't do
like red carporate work or he doesn't have boutiques, but
he is an American couturier. He is actually certified amazing
and he does amazing, gorgeous work. And we went to
one of his few runway shows because he doesn't do
(46:06):
them anymore, and he hadn't done them for years. And
I remember we got there and you know, we always
tried to get there a little early so that we
could you know, situate ourselves and also to watch everyone
else walking in.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
And he.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Let me just say, when in fashion week, any show
during fashion week, you are given a an area to
sit on that I'm not joking. It's about besides of
a cocktail napkin.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
I sometimes that you would get close to your seats
and I would start laughing because there's no way, not.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Even one ass cheek is going to fit on that.
And you know, Andrew Leantalo Talley was an obese man.
He was a very large man. So when we got there,
he had his own chair was essentially a throne, and
he was up on stage because he would have screwed
up the line, yes, if they put a large chair
in the middle. So at this I felt some kind
(47:02):
of way about it because you could look at as Okay,
they're paying respect to the man, he's got us on
a chair, but he actually looked really embarrassed sitting up there.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
I thought, well, I know he had a huge ego,
but I mean, I don't know, it's just like put
the fat man up on the stage, Like that's not
the best way to do it. Granted, he navigated that
world for decades as a fat man, so he wants
up being used to so so much crap.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
Black gay, I mean, and fat and fat. I mean,
he he's an he was, he was complicated. He has
a massive ego, but he was extremely talented and he
did so much for the fashion industry. He's inspiration, you know,
always inspirational, like his contributions, everything about it. Yeah, there's
(47:49):
so much about the guy that is just amazing. You know,
this poor black guy who became this huge, amazing guy
in the fashion world. Uh, someone that.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
I wish that the night was more of a tribute
to him that I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
But she said some nice things. I watched a few
interviews with her and a Winter talking about him, and
he worshiped.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Her, I know he did, and she treated them like shit, But.
Speaker 2 (48:15):
She treats everyone like shit. She does, even her own family,
her own children. So so. Yeah. But but they they
I think they adore each other, adored adored each other. Yeah,
and uh, I just I don't know, but it's their
relationship was complicated. But anyway, I'm i'm I'm happy that
(48:37):
they even mentioned his name, even if it's not a
full blown, you know, inspiration or theme, but they celebrated him,
and I think it's well deserved. A greed.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Okay, now we are fully wrapped up. We have touched
on every single thing, and we'll be back next week
with whatever crosses our eyes across our desk. Until then,
take care of yourself, love you mean it.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
We adressing link a fan and basing us to expressing
links and a branding links in a Trice tanks and
address to extensions
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