June 24, 2025 • 22 mins
How do you make a great cup of coffee every single time? Jim Trout, Vice President, Research & Development--Coffee at the J. M. Smucker Co., reveals how Folgers Coffee uses data, design, and taste tests to perfect its signature flavor. ☕🔬
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Tomorrow's World Today - S9E4 – Perfect Pour
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Modern Coffee Innovations Brewing a Better Tomorrow
5 Quick & Creative Iced Coffee Recipes
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Tomorrow's World Today podcast.
We sit down with experts, worldchanging innovators, creators
and makers to explore howthey're taking action to make
tomorrow's world a better placefor technology, science,
innovation, sustainability, thearts and more.
On this episode, host GeorgeDavison, who is also the host of
(00:22):
the TV series Tomorrow's WorldToday, sits down with Jim Trout,
Vice President for CoffeeResearch and Development at
Folgers.
Jim discusses the company's175-year history, its commitment
to consistent, smooth coffeethrough rigorous research and
proprietary blending, and itsfocus on sustainability and
emerging trends like instanticed coffee.
SPEAKER_02 (00:43):
Hello, everybody, and welcome to another edition
of Tomorrow's World Today.
And our guest today is JimTrout.
He is the vice president forcoffee research and development
at Folgers.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_01 (00:55):
Thanks, George.
SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
It's great to be on the show.
Well, I was looking forward tomeeting you.
You've been in research anddevelopment for quite a long
time.
That's right.
R&D is what people tend to callit as a shortened version.
Can you tell us a little bitabout The Folgers coffee, in a
broad way, can you talk a littlebit about it?
SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
Absolutely.
Well, Folgers is America'sleading at-home coffee.
And we really focus ondelivering a nice, consistent,
smooth profile that's repeatableday after day throughout the
year.
And we also try to keep up withnew trends, make sure that we
are providing new flavors andformats and really staying
(01:35):
current for our consumers.
So
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
that would require some...
some research, going out anddoing studies, let's say, in the
field.
How would you go about doingobservational analysis on taste?
That might be an interestingdialogue.
SPEAKER_01 (01:51):
Yeah, so we do a lot of in-home consumer research
where we will go into consumers'homes with one or two people and
we'll watch their habits.
And very importantly, we'll lookfor pain points.
You know, what are compensatingbehaviors?
What are things that they'redoing that They kind of get by
with their routine, but maybe wecould make it easier.
(02:12):
And then we'll also run a lot ofblind taste tests where we'll
put different products in frontof consumers and understand what
parts of the taste profile dothey like and what parts are
just kind of okay.
And then we put all thattogether to design and optimize
our products.
Well, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
So in other words, you can figure out a way to take
a coffee bean, roast it, grindit, and try to get a smooth
tasting product universally.
So wherever you go in the world,you could have your favorite
coffee with you, right?
That's right, you could.
So can you walk us down the path
SPEAKER_01 (02:47):
of how can you create such a consistent
product?
Yeah, that's a really goodquestion.
And it's something that we'vebeen working on for decades.
You could argue all the way backto our founding in 1850 out in
San Francisco during the goldrush era.
And really, there's a coupledifferent parts of it that drive
the consistency.
(03:07):
One is when we go to purchasethe coffee, which comes from
around the world, variousorigins.
Each of those origins has somenuances to it.
And then you also have thisphenomena where coffee grows in
the tropics.
And so, you know, countries thatare north of the equator harvest
at one time of the year.
Countries south of the equatorharvest kind of the opposite
(03:31):
time of the year.
And so as that crop agesthroughout the year, you know,
the quality can change.
And so we have to learn how tobuy from countries north or
south, depending on the time ofthe year, and put those together
in a way that that taste profileis consistent throughout.
So we've, you know, over theyears have gone out, cataloged
(03:52):
these coffees, assign scores tothem, and then we use
proprietary modeling to knowwhat to combine with what to
create that taste.
So you have your own secretrecipe, don't
SPEAKER_02 (04:02):
you?
We do.
That's fabulous.
That is such a big part ofbusiness, having something
unique that's hard to repeat.
and probably it's notpatentable.
It's just trade secretinformation, right?
We have
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
several trade secrets.
That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_02 (04:18):
That's wonderful.
Well, congratulations.
Thank you.
Now, this business has
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
been around for quite a long time.
That's right.
Yep.
How long?
Well, we were founded back inMay of 1850.
So we're right at the 175thanniversary of the company.
And back then, the name of thecompany was the Pioneer Steam
Coffee and Spice Mills.
That was out in San Francisco.
And the premise was to find away to provide coffee to the
(04:45):
gold miners in a way that wasmore convenient.
So prior to this innovation thatwe had, which is really roasting
ground coffee packed in a tin,that was the innovation.
You know, coffee was justbrought in from other countries
off of ships, and it wasunroasted, it was raw, and
miners would take that into thehills, and they would have to
roast that in a pan over a fire,crack it or grind it somehow,
(05:10):
and then boil that.
That's a lot of work.
It is.
What you really want to be doingis out there finding gold, not
messing with roasting coffee.
So that was really theinnovation that sprang the
company to life.
SPEAKER_02 (05:22):
Boy, to be able to go back in time and see some of
those innovations coming around,right?
Absolutely.
So, you know, what's your story,Jim?
Can you talk a little bit aboutyourself professionally and
personally?
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
Yeah, yeah.
So I grew up in eastern Ohioand, you know, some role models
in my life really kind of openedmy eyes to science and math,
especially my sister, who'solder than me.
And she ended up going intoveterinary medicine.
And I really saw all thedifferent courses that she took.
And I really got excited aboutmath and science.
(05:56):
And so I kind of followed thatthrough school.
And I wound up going to college.
I'm a chemical engineer bydegree.
And I started my career atProcter& Gamble.
I was there about 17 yearsbefore the business that I was
in moved into, which was coffee.
It was purchased by the J.M.
Smucker Company.
Today, I'm married.
I've got three children.
And they're all graduated fromcollege.
(06:17):
now, so we're empty nesters.
Well, it sounds like a goodjourney in your life.
You enjoy your work.
I love my work.
Many times, I'll be driving intothe office, and I almost have to
pinch myself.
I'm like, I get to go in andcreate new coffee products and
smell that wonderful aroma, andthat's my career.
(06:38):
It's a lot of
SPEAKER_02 (06:39):
fun.
Research and development is whatwe do as well, a lot of it, and
One of the things I like aboutit is it's something different
all the time.
Exactly.
Never gets boring, does it?
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (06:50):
Could you talk a little bit about, you know, why
it attracted you, R&D?
SPEAKER_01 (06:54):
Yeah.
So, you know, there's, I thinkwhen you look at careers in this
general area, you know, thinkabout the technical area, you
can maybe be attracted to thingsthat are very repeatable and
reproducible, like, you know,manufacturing, for example.
And that could be very rewardingbecause you see those results
(07:15):
right away.
And that's fantastic.
And R&D, frankly, there's apretty high failure rate.
Most of what we do in R&Ddoesn't end up working, right?
But once in a while, once in awhile, you find something that
is like lightning in a bottle.
And to see that come to life andmake it to the store shelf and
(07:35):
be able to go visit that in thestores with your family and know
that that didn't exist before isjust an amazing feeling.
I love that
SPEAKER_02 (07:43):
lightning in a bottle analogy because it's so
true.
You just don't know when it'sgoing to hit.
You just have to keep going,don't you?
SPEAKER_01 (07:52):
You have to keep going.
Persistence and perseverance aretwo things that I often talk to
people about.
that are really important inthis field.
You got to keep at it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:03):
So you must have that trait in you.
Can you track it back as towhere do you think you started
to become a person like that?
SPEAKER_01 (08:10):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
You know, I really look back tomy parents, who both were just
incredibly hard workers.
And whenever they facedobstacles, you know, they never
gave up.
And I referenced my sisterearlier, you know, she was the
same way.
And I think I just learned thatkind of at an early age.
(08:31):
And whenever I would encounterstruggles, you know, my family
would always encourage me, well,keep going on this, don't quit,
right?
Even when I played sports,things like that, if things
weren't going well, I'd alwaysfinish that out.
You know, I would never stop inthe
SPEAKER_02 (08:45):
middle.
That's a great way to live yourlife.
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
Thanks.
SPEAKER_02 (08:49):
So let's, you know, now that we've talked a little
bit about R&D and let's call itthe lab, so to speak.
There's R&D as well in how youcome up with a name or how you
come up with your brand, yourcolors and everything else.
Right, right.
You know, in the side ofpackaging and storytelling, can
you talk to us a little bitabout the brand?
(09:11):
I mean, it's a well-known brand.
How did that...
come about.
Do you know the history on someof that?
SPEAKER_01 (09:19):
We know some of the history, for sure.
There was a book publishedcalled The Folger Way, which
chronicles the history of theFolger Coffee Company, all the
way back to when it was founded,and even really, frankly, before
that in the life of JamesFolger.
And the name Folger's which isjust F-O-L-G-E-R-S, used to be,
(09:44):
its name was actually Folger,and then the brand name was
Folgers apostrophe S.
Later on, that apostrophe wasdropped, and so now it's called
Folgers.
So that's kind of the history ofthat name.
But in terms of the colors, it'svery interesting.
So our best guess right now isthat it traces back to the gold
(10:06):
rush era, where many times theminers would wear a red shirt as
they would travel into thehills.
So it was a very identifiablecolor.
And as I referenced, theoriginal innovation was all
about providing packaged roastedground coffee to gold miners.
So it was a familiar color.
SPEAKER_02 (10:24):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (10:25):
And if you look at the San Francisco 49ers, they
have red in their logo.
And I believe that is for thesame reason.
It relates back to 49ers, thegold rush, and the colors that
the miners would wear.
So it all kind of ties togetherwith that red.
SPEAKER_02 (10:41):
Well, I wore this red jacket just for you and
Folgers today.
I
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
really appreciate
SPEAKER_02 (10:45):
that, George.
Thank you.
I seriously did.
I love this red jacket, but I'ma believer in the Folgers way of
doing things.
So we really drink quite a bitof your coffee.
SPEAKER_01 (10:57):
We love that.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (10:59):
Well, you make a great product.
SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
Thank
SPEAKER_02 (11:01):
you.
The hard work pays off, doesn'tit?
It does.
So, of course, there's a sloganthat I think most Americans
could repeat.
The best part of waking up is...
That's
SPEAKER_01 (11:12):
right.
SPEAKER_02 (11:13):
And I imagine that that still resonates.
It's been around a long time.
SPEAKER_01 (11:17):
It has been.
SPEAKER_02 (11:18):
Do you still play that into the marketplace?
SPEAKER_01 (11:22):
Not so much.
We've pivoted into some newermarketing campaigns, but
obviously you can go online andstill see the old commercials
that have that tagline.
On my phone, I actually have thejingle.
It's by Rockapella.
Once in a while, I want to getenergized, I'll play that
jingle.
(11:42):
And, you know, people still knowit and you'll hear them humming
it once in a while today.
SPEAKER_02 (11:47):
Oh, definitely.
I was chatting with my wife thismorning and I just started the
jingle.
She finished it.
SPEAKER_01 (11:54):
That's great.
SPEAKER_02 (11:57):
So do we have any idea like how the...
marketing department came upwith i'm really curious about
that jingle because storytellingis so vital right to getting a
product to the marketplace andgetting people to a you know
maybe take a chance on somethingthey never tried before right
(12:17):
and so uh you know the art ofcoming up with a very short
jingle it is it's almost like irefer to it as Like, can you do
a really good billboard design?
A lot of billboard designs isterrible.
It's so busy.
You're going by at 70 miles
SPEAKER_01 (12:34):
an hour.
You can't see it.
I
SPEAKER_02 (12:35):
don't know what they're trying to tell me.
But the ones that are just a fewwords and with the right color
separation, you can read them.
Right.
And if they're the right words,the message gets through,
doesn't
SPEAKER_01 (12:46):
it?
That's right.
That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_02 (12:48):
So is there the science behind that?
Can you chat a little bit aboutthat?
SPEAKER_01 (12:53):
Well, I mean, you're exactly right.
you want to tap into someemotional connection when it
comes to branding.
That's really important.
And at the time, this was ownedby P&G, the brand was.
And they did a lot of workunderstanding, again, what are
those unmet needs?
What is coffee really doing forfolks?
(13:15):
And it's that, again, it's thatmorning.
So if you look at the oldcommercials back at that time,
you would oftentimes have,because back then we had a
vacuum can.
You would see somebody puttingthe can opener in there and
you'd hear a wisp.
Yeah, a wisp.
And then you would usually see ascoop.
SPEAKER_02 (13:31):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
And then you would see it dripping into the pot and
then you would see it pour.
That was a very intentionalsequence of events.
And when you wake up and yousmell that aroma in the morning
and you take the sip of thatcoffee and you feel energy, that
is an amazing moment in the day.
And so you just pair that upwith some words and some really
(13:54):
talented musicians that can makea really short piece of music to
bring it all together.
So the best part of waking up,right?
Because sometimes waking up isnot the best thing, right?
You're sleepy.
But the best part of waking upis Folgers in your cup.
SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
Yes.
You're right.
It's the observation of how thatemotional experience takes
place.
You observe it, and then you canput words to it and the music to
it.
You might just have a nicelittle jingle there.
SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (14:24):
Yeah, great stuff.
So now let's move on into thebigger, the world of coffee.
Sure.
You know, the U.S.
coffee market right now, itgenerates$84 billion in revenue.
That's huge.
Could you talk a little bitabout what sets Folgers apart
from the others?
SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
Yeah.
Well, it really comes down to...
you know, products that aredesigned, they're consistent,
like I mentioned a little bitearlier around, you know,
year-round, you know exactlywhat to expect, okay?
And that's really important.
And the taste profiles that wegenerate are very thoroughly
tested.
There's a lot of scienceengineering that goes into them
(15:05):
to make sure that, frankly, thecompounds that we're generating
in that roast are what consumerswant in their flavor and their
experience.
And we've really got that downto really an exact science now
over the years.
SPEAKER_02 (15:20):
So, you know, in the last, let's say, 15 or 20 years,
a lot of the European coffeehouses have made their way into
the USA, you know, and ofcourse, they're under different
names and whatnot.
But, you know, how muchattention do you pay?
to those evolving trends?
I mean, that was a big trendthat moved into the US.
SPEAKER_01 (15:42):
Sure, sure.
Well, we pay a lot of attentionto it, frankly, and we need to
be aware of those trends and weneed to understand, you know, is
there anything about ourproducts that we should adjust
in order to satisfy perhaps somenew consumer needs.
And one of the things that wehave seen over the years, say
the past 20-ish years or so, isa trend towards a little bit
(16:03):
darker profiles.
And so we have, in some of ourproducts, pushed them a little
bit further that direction.
And we've even created someproducts now in the dark space
that are doing really well.
For example, Folgers Black Silkwas exactly that.
But we did it in our way.
So we did it in a Folger way.
So that is a dark, bold product,but it's still very smooth.
(16:27):
And that's not something youtypically find in dark, dark
coffees.
SPEAKER_02 (16:31):
Yes.
I've been in other parts of theworld, and I've had some pretty
bitter coffee in my day.
You appreciate a smooth cup ofcoffee when you come back to the
USA, I'll tell you.
So, in order to get thatconsistency and smoothness and
make it a sustainable systemthat you could put everywhere,
(16:54):
could you talk a little bitabout this cupping
SPEAKER_01 (16:58):
technique?
Oh, sure.
You do.
Sure, absolutely.
So this was another innovationthat was brought into the coffee
industry, you know, in the SanFrancisco area, largely driven
by Folger.
And we believe it may have beentied to the wine industry that
had already been established outthere where they tasted raw
materials, you know, basicallythe grapes and kind of
(17:18):
understood how to use them.
So cupping, what that refers tois when you purchase coffee and
it comes in, obviously it's rawmaterials, unroasted.
Yes.
And There are nuances in tastedepending on which origin it was
grown in, what the variety ofcoffee was, and then what the
elevation is.
And so we bring those coffeesin, we roast them very, very
(17:40):
lightly, grind them, steep themin water, and then strain them
out, and then we taste them.
And based on that, a tasteassessment, and we have a list
of descriptors that are verycarefully thought through, we
can understand how to then usethat product.
And that's a pretty standardmethod in the industry today, to
cup your coffee, and again,understand how to use it, but
(18:03):
then also, is there somethingwrong with it?
Is it maybe faded, or is theresome other issue with it?
SPEAKER_02 (18:08):
Yes, so it makes sense.
Many of the industries I've comein contact, they have a method
Mm-hmm.
Very interesting.
How does Folgers ensuresustainability in its coffee
(18:29):
beans sourcing and supply chain?
SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So we have several programs thatwe do today.
We have some programs in countrythat we go in and we set up
projects to help localcommunities where the coffee is
grown.
There could be some things likehelping them with schools or
helping them with infrastructureprojects.
We also partner with a companycalled Inveritas, which helps us
(18:53):
better understand our supplychain, where the opportunities
are.
And then we'll fund globalprojects that go into
specifically into those regionsand help them out.
And then a third angle is aorganization we belong to called
World Coffee Research.
And this is all about developingnew varieties of coffee so that
in the future, things likedisease, drought, you know,
(19:17):
things like that, we'll have theright varieties to be able to
tackle those challenges.
SPEAKER_02 (19:22):
Is that a marketing initiative in the company?
I mean, there's a noble causeaffiliated with both things that
you just covered.
Sure.
Those are good initiatives.
So, you know, how does Folgerlead that internally?
SPEAKER_01 (19:36):
Yeah.
Well, we have, from aconsumer-facing standpoint, we
have what's called the Folger'sBest Part Promise, which really
kind of brings all this togetherand talks about how we're
committed to sustainability forthe long term.
And then we do talk about itinternally, and we have groups
of people that focus theirenergy on making these things
come to life.
(19:57):
It's
SPEAKER_02 (19:57):
amazing.
The initiatives that bigcompanies like Folger can
really, you can really make adifference in the world.
Yes, it's Folger's in my cup,but there are other impacts.
SPEAKER_01 (20:10):
Yes, significant impacts.
SPEAKER_02 (20:13):
Let's talk a little bit about the future.
Sure.
What's next for Folgers?
SPEAKER_01 (20:19):
Well, we're all about understanding consumer
needs.
We are relentlessly focused onthe consumer.
And so right now we're lookingat what some of those trends
that are emerging or maybe arein progress right now.
And a good example of that isinstant coffee.
So Folgers has been in theinstant coffee business for
(20:39):
several decades.
But what we're seeing now is aresurgence in instant.
It's very versatile, very easyto use.
It's very easy to adjust yourstrength.
If you make a cup and you say,you know, I want a little bit
more coffee strength, you know,you can just take your teaspoon
and put a little bit more inthere.
And we also are seeing a lot ofusage in different temperature
(21:00):
states.
So for example, cold.
or consumers want to put itdirectly into milk and have it
dissolve.
And so we've been looking atthat very closely, and we
recently launched an icedcoffee, Folgers Iced Coffee
Instant, and that does exactlywhat I just mentioned.
It can dissolve in hot or cold,and you can also use water or
milk.
So it's a very versatileproduct.
(21:24):
So we're watching trends likethat and seeing where they're
going.
SPEAKER_02 (21:27):
I have a trend for you in my world of coffee.
It's interesting for me.
When I first get my cup ofcoffee, I let it sit.
I let it settle for maybe 15,Yeah, not 15 minutes, too cold.
Probably about 10 minutes.
Okay.
And then it's like at theperfect temperature.
Okay, yep.
But it doesn't stay there verylong.
(21:47):
Nope.
That's right.
So we end up, you know, havingto, you know, I want to get it
out.
I want to get it finished beforeit gets too cool, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (21:55):
So maybe you can do something about that, Jim.
SPEAKER_01 (21:58):
Well, I'm going to write it down and take that
back.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (22:01):
Well, thank you for coming in for the show today.
SPEAKER_01 (22:04):
It's great to be here.
SPEAKER_02 (22:05):
Well, everybody, that's another edition of
Tomorrow's World Today.
Thanks for tuning in.
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
Thank you for listening to this episode of
Tomorrow's World Today podcast.
Join us next time as we continueto explore the worlds of
inspiration, creation,innovation, and production.
Discover more atTomorrowsWorldToday.com, connect
with us on social media at TWTExplore, and find us wherever
podcasts are available.
Welcome to the Tomorrow's World Today podcast.
We sit down with experts, worldchanging innovators, creators
and makers to explore howthey're taking action to make
tomorrow's world a better placefor technology, science,
innovation, sustainability, thearts and more.
On this episode, host GeorgeDavison, who is also the host of
(00:22):
the TV series Tomorrow's WorldToday, sits down with Jim Trout,
Vice President for CoffeeResearch and Development at
Folgers.
Jim discusses the company's175-year history, its commitment
to consistent, smooth coffeethrough rigorous research and
proprietary blending, and itsfocus on sustainability and
emerging trends like instanticed coffee.
SPEAKER_02 (00:43):
Hello, everybody, and welcome to another edition
of Tomorrow's World Today.
And our guest today is JimTrout.
He is the vice president forcoffee research and development
at Folgers.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_01 (00:55):
Thanks, George.
SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
It's great to be on the show.
Well, I was looking forward tomeeting you.
You've been in research anddevelopment for quite a long
time.
That's right.
R&D is what people tend to callit as a shortened version.
Can you tell us a little bitabout The Folgers coffee, in a
broad way, can you talk a littlebit about it?
SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
Absolutely.
Well, Folgers is America'sleading at-home coffee.
And we really focus ondelivering a nice, consistent,
smooth profile that's repeatableday after day throughout the
year.
And we also try to keep up withnew trends, make sure that we
are providing new flavors andformats and really staying
(01:35):
current for our consumers.
So
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
that would require some...
some research, going out anddoing studies, let's say, in the
field.
How would you go about doingobservational analysis on taste?
That might be an interestingdialogue.
SPEAKER_01 (01:51):
Yeah, so we do a lot of in-home consumer research
where we will go into consumers'homes with one or two people and
we'll watch their habits.
And very importantly, we'll lookfor pain points.
You know, what are compensatingbehaviors?
What are things that they'redoing that They kind of get by
with their routine, but maybe wecould make it easier.
(02:12):
And then we'll also run a lot ofblind taste tests where we'll
put different products in frontof consumers and understand what
parts of the taste profile dothey like and what parts are
just kind of okay.
And then we put all thattogether to design and optimize
our products.
Well, that's interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (02:28):
So in other words, you can figure out a way to take
a coffee bean, roast it, grindit, and try to get a smooth
tasting product universally.
So wherever you go in the world,you could have your favorite
coffee with you, right?
That's right, you could.
So can you walk us down the path
SPEAKER_01 (02:47):
of how can you create such a consistent
product?
Yeah, that's a really goodquestion.
And it's something that we'vebeen working on for decades.
You could argue all the way backto our founding in 1850 out in
San Francisco during the goldrush era.
And really, there's a coupledifferent parts of it that drive
the consistency.
(03:07):
One is when we go to purchasethe coffee, which comes from
around the world, variousorigins.
Each of those origins has somenuances to it.
And then you also have thisphenomena where coffee grows in
the tropics.
And so, you know, countries thatare north of the equator harvest
at one time of the year.
Countries south of the equatorharvest kind of the opposite
(03:31):
time of the year.
And so as that crop agesthroughout the year, you know,
the quality can change.
And so we have to learn how tobuy from countries north or
south, depending on the time ofthe year, and put those together
in a way that that taste profileis consistent throughout.
So we've, you know, over theyears have gone out, cataloged
(03:52):
these coffees, assign scores tothem, and then we use
proprietary modeling to knowwhat to combine with what to
create that taste.
So you have your own secretrecipe, don't
SPEAKER_02 (04:02):
you?
We do.
That's fabulous.
That is such a big part ofbusiness, having something
unique that's hard to repeat.
and probably it's notpatentable.
It's just trade secretinformation, right?
We have
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
several trade secrets.
That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_02 (04:18):
That's wonderful.
Well, congratulations.
Thank you.
Now, this business has
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
been around for quite a long time.
That's right.
Yep.
How long?
Well, we were founded back inMay of 1850.
So we're right at the 175thanniversary of the company.
And back then, the name of thecompany was the Pioneer Steam
Coffee and Spice Mills.
That was out in San Francisco.
And the premise was to find away to provide coffee to the
(04:45):
gold miners in a way that wasmore convenient.
So prior to this innovation thatwe had, which is really roasting
ground coffee packed in a tin,that was the innovation.
You know, coffee was justbrought in from other countries
off of ships, and it wasunroasted, it was raw, and
miners would take that into thehills, and they would have to
roast that in a pan over a fire,crack it or grind it somehow,
(05:10):
and then boil that.
That's a lot of work.
It is.
What you really want to be doingis out there finding gold, not
messing with roasting coffee.
So that was really theinnovation that sprang the
company to life.
SPEAKER_02 (05:22):
Boy, to be able to go back in time and see some of
those innovations coming around,right?
Absolutely.
So, you know, what's your story,Jim?
Can you talk a little bit aboutyourself professionally and
personally?
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
Yeah, yeah.
So I grew up in eastern Ohioand, you know, some role models
in my life really kind of openedmy eyes to science and math,
especially my sister, who'solder than me.
And she ended up going intoveterinary medicine.
And I really saw all thedifferent courses that she took.
And I really got excited aboutmath and science.
(05:56):
And so I kind of followed thatthrough school.
And I wound up going to college.
I'm a chemical engineer bydegree.
And I started my career atProcter& Gamble.
I was there about 17 yearsbefore the business that I was
in moved into, which was coffee.
It was purchased by the J.M.
Smucker Company.
Today, I'm married.
I've got three children.
And they're all graduated fromcollege.
(06:17):
now, so we're empty nesters.
Well, it sounds like a goodjourney in your life.
You enjoy your work.
I love my work.
Many times, I'll be driving intothe office, and I almost have to
pinch myself.
I'm like, I get to go in andcreate new coffee products and
smell that wonderful aroma, andthat's my career.
(06:38):
It's a lot of
SPEAKER_02 (06:39):
fun.
Research and development is whatwe do as well, a lot of it, and
One of the things I like aboutit is it's something different
all the time.
Exactly.
Never gets boring, does it?
That's right.
SPEAKER_01 (06:49):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (06:50):
Could you talk a little bit about, you know, why
it attracted you, R&D?
SPEAKER_01 (06:54):
Yeah.
So, you know, there's, I thinkwhen you look at careers in this
general area, you know, thinkabout the technical area, you
can maybe be attracted to thingsthat are very repeatable and
reproducible, like, you know,manufacturing, for example.
And that could be very rewardingbecause you see those results
(07:15):
right away.
And that's fantastic.
And R&D, frankly, there's apretty high failure rate.
Most of what we do in R&Ddoesn't end up working, right?
But once in a while, once in awhile, you find something that
is like lightning in a bottle.
And to see that come to life andmake it to the store shelf and
(07:35):
be able to go visit that in thestores with your family and know
that that didn't exist before isjust an amazing feeling.
I love that
SPEAKER_02 (07:43):
lightning in a bottle analogy because it's so
true.
You just don't know when it'sgoing to hit.
You just have to keep going,don't you?
SPEAKER_01 (07:52):
You have to keep going.
Persistence and perseverance aretwo things that I often talk to
people about.
that are really important inthis field.
You got to keep at it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:03):
So you must have that trait in you.
Can you track it back as towhere do you think you started
to become a person like that?
SPEAKER_01 (08:10):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
You know, I really look back tomy parents, who both were just
incredibly hard workers.
And whenever they facedobstacles, you know, they never
gave up.
And I referenced my sisterearlier, you know, she was the
same way.
And I think I just learned thatkind of at an early age.
(08:31):
And whenever I would encounterstruggles, you know, my family
would always encourage me, well,keep going on this, don't quit,
right?
Even when I played sports,things like that, if things
weren't going well, I'd alwaysfinish that out.
You know, I would never stop inthe
SPEAKER_02 (08:45):
middle.
That's a great way to live yourlife.
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
Thanks.
SPEAKER_02 (08:49):
So let's, you know, now that we've talked a little
bit about R&D and let's call itthe lab, so to speak.
There's R&D as well in how youcome up with a name or how you
come up with your brand, yourcolors and everything else.
Right, right.
You know, in the side ofpackaging and storytelling, can
you talk to us a little bitabout the brand?
(09:11):
I mean, it's a well-known brand.
How did that...
come about.
Do you know the history on someof that?
SPEAKER_01 (09:19):
We know some of the history, for sure.
There was a book publishedcalled The Folger Way, which
chronicles the history of theFolger Coffee Company, all the
way back to when it was founded,and even really, frankly, before
that in the life of JamesFolger.
And the name Folger's which isjust F-O-L-G-E-R-S, used to be,
(09:44):
its name was actually Folger,and then the brand name was
Folgers apostrophe S.
Later on, that apostrophe wasdropped, and so now it's called
Folgers.
So that's kind of the history ofthat name.
But in terms of the colors, it'svery interesting.
So our best guess right now isthat it traces back to the gold
(10:06):
rush era, where many times theminers would wear a red shirt as
they would travel into thehills.
So it was a very identifiablecolor.
And as I referenced, theoriginal innovation was all
about providing packaged roastedground coffee to gold miners.
So it was a familiar color.
SPEAKER_02 (10:24):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (10:25):
And if you look at the San Francisco 49ers, they
have red in their logo.
And I believe that is for thesame reason.
It relates back to 49ers, thegold rush, and the colors that
the miners would wear.
So it all kind of ties togetherwith that red.
SPEAKER_02 (10:41):
Well, I wore this red jacket just for you and
Folgers today.
I
SPEAKER_01 (10:44):
really appreciate
SPEAKER_02 (10:45):
that, George.
Thank you.
I seriously did.
I love this red jacket, but I'ma believer in the Folgers way of
doing things.
So we really drink quite a bitof your coffee.
SPEAKER_01 (10:57):
We love that.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (10:59):
Well, you make a great product.
SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
Thank
SPEAKER_02 (11:01):
you.
The hard work pays off, doesn'tit?
It does.
So, of course, there's a sloganthat I think most Americans
could repeat.
The best part of waking up is...
That's
SPEAKER_01 (11:12):
right.
SPEAKER_02 (11:13):
And I imagine that that still resonates.
It's been around a long time.
SPEAKER_01 (11:17):
It has been.
SPEAKER_02 (11:18):
Do you still play that into the marketplace?
SPEAKER_01 (11:22):
Not so much.
We've pivoted into some newermarketing campaigns, but
obviously you can go online andstill see the old commercials
that have that tagline.
On my phone, I actually have thejingle.
It's by Rockapella.
Once in a while, I want to getenergized, I'll play that
jingle.
(11:42):
And, you know, people still knowit and you'll hear them humming
it once in a while today.
SPEAKER_02 (11:47):
Oh, definitely.
I was chatting with my wife thismorning and I just started the
jingle.
She finished it.
SPEAKER_01 (11:54):
That's great.
SPEAKER_02 (11:57):
So do we have any idea like how the...
marketing department came upwith i'm really curious about
that jingle because storytellingis so vital right to getting a
product to the marketplace andgetting people to a you know
maybe take a chance on somethingthey never tried before right
(12:17):
and so uh you know the art ofcoming up with a very short
jingle it is it's almost like irefer to it as Like, can you do
a really good billboard design?
A lot of billboard designs isterrible.
It's so busy.
You're going by at 70 miles
SPEAKER_01 (12:34):
an hour.
You can't see it.
I
SPEAKER_02 (12:35):
don't know what they're trying to tell me.
But the ones that are just a fewwords and with the right color
separation, you can read them.
Right.
And if they're the right words,the message gets through,
doesn't
SPEAKER_01 (12:46):
it?
That's right.
That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_02 (12:48):
So is there the science behind that?
Can you chat a little bit aboutthat?
SPEAKER_01 (12:53):
Well, I mean, you're exactly right.
you want to tap into someemotional connection when it
comes to branding.
That's really important.
And at the time, this was ownedby P&G, the brand was.
And they did a lot of workunderstanding, again, what are
those unmet needs?
What is coffee really doing forfolks?
(13:15):
And it's that, again, it's thatmorning.
So if you look at the oldcommercials back at that time,
you would oftentimes have,because back then we had a
vacuum can.
You would see somebody puttingthe can opener in there and
you'd hear a wisp.
Yeah, a wisp.
And then you would usually see ascoop.
SPEAKER_02 (13:31):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
And then you would see it dripping into the pot and
then you would see it pour.
That was a very intentionalsequence of events.
And when you wake up and yousmell that aroma in the morning
and you take the sip of thatcoffee and you feel energy, that
is an amazing moment in the day.
And so you just pair that upwith some words and some really
(13:54):
talented musicians that can makea really short piece of music to
bring it all together.
So the best part of waking up,right?
Because sometimes waking up isnot the best thing, right?
You're sleepy.
But the best part of waking upis Folgers in your cup.
SPEAKER_02 (14:08):
Yes.
You're right.
It's the observation of how thatemotional experience takes
place.
You observe it, and then you canput words to it and the music to
it.
You might just have a nicelittle jingle there.
SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (14:24):
Yeah, great stuff.
So now let's move on into thebigger, the world of coffee.
Sure.
You know, the U.S.
coffee market right now, itgenerates$84 billion in revenue.
That's huge.
Could you talk a little bitabout what sets Folgers apart
from the others?
SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
Yeah.
Well, it really comes down to...
you know, products that aredesigned, they're consistent,
like I mentioned a little bitearlier around, you know,
year-round, you know exactlywhat to expect, okay?
And that's really important.
And the taste profiles that wegenerate are very thoroughly
tested.
There's a lot of scienceengineering that goes into them
(15:05):
to make sure that, frankly, thecompounds that we're generating
in that roast are what consumerswant in their flavor and their
experience.
And we've really got that downto really an exact science now
over the years.
SPEAKER_02 (15:20):
So, you know, in the last, let's say, 15 or 20 years,
a lot of the European coffeehouses have made their way into
the USA, you know, and ofcourse, they're under different
names and whatnot.
But, you know, how muchattention do you pay?
to those evolving trends?
I mean, that was a big trendthat moved into the US.
SPEAKER_01 (15:42):
Sure, sure.
Well, we pay a lot of attentionto it, frankly, and we need to
be aware of those trends and weneed to understand, you know, is
there anything about ourproducts that we should adjust
in order to satisfy perhaps somenew consumer needs.
And one of the things that wehave seen over the years, say
the past 20-ish years or so, isa trend towards a little bit
(16:03):
darker profiles.
And so we have, in some of ourproducts, pushed them a little
bit further that direction.
And we've even created someproducts now in the dark space
that are doing really well.
For example, Folgers Black Silkwas exactly that.
But we did it in our way.
So we did it in a Folger way.
So that is a dark, bold product,but it's still very smooth.
(16:27):
And that's not something youtypically find in dark, dark
coffees.
SPEAKER_02 (16:31):
Yes.
I've been in other parts of theworld, and I've had some pretty
bitter coffee in my day.
You appreciate a smooth cup ofcoffee when you come back to the
USA, I'll tell you.
So, in order to get thatconsistency and smoothness and
make it a sustainable systemthat you could put everywhere,
(16:54):
could you talk a little bitabout this cupping
SPEAKER_01 (16:58):
technique?
Oh, sure.
You do.
Sure, absolutely.
So this was another innovationthat was brought into the coffee
industry, you know, in the SanFrancisco area, largely driven
by Folger.
And we believe it may have beentied to the wine industry that
had already been established outthere where they tasted raw
materials, you know, basicallythe grapes and kind of
(17:18):
understood how to use them.
So cupping, what that refers tois when you purchase coffee and
it comes in, obviously it's rawmaterials, unroasted.
Yes.
And There are nuances in tastedepending on which origin it was
grown in, what the variety ofcoffee was, and then what the
elevation is.
And so we bring those coffeesin, we roast them very, very
(17:40):
lightly, grind them, steep themin water, and then strain them
out, and then we taste them.
And based on that, a tasteassessment, and we have a list
of descriptors that are verycarefully thought through, we
can understand how to then usethat product.
And that's a pretty standardmethod in the industry today, to
cup your coffee, and again,understand how to use it, but
(18:03):
then also, is there somethingwrong with it?
Is it maybe faded, or is theresome other issue with it?
SPEAKER_02 (18:08):
Yes, so it makes sense.
Many of the industries I've comein contact, they have a method
Mm-hmm.
Very interesting.
How does Folgers ensuresustainability in its coffee
(18:29):
beans sourcing and supply chain?
SPEAKER_01 (18:30):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So we have several programs thatwe do today.
We have some programs in countrythat we go in and we set up
projects to help localcommunities where the coffee is
grown.
There could be some things likehelping them with schools or
helping them with infrastructureprojects.
We also partner with a companycalled Inveritas, which helps us
(18:53):
better understand our supplychain, where the opportunities
are.
And then we'll fund globalprojects that go into
specifically into those regionsand help them out.
And then a third angle is aorganization we belong to called
World Coffee Research.
And this is all about developingnew varieties of coffee so that
in the future, things likedisease, drought, you know,
(19:17):
things like that, we'll have theright varieties to be able to
tackle those challenges.
SPEAKER_02 (19:22):
Is that a marketing initiative in the company?
I mean, there's a noble causeaffiliated with both things that
you just covered.
Sure.
Those are good initiatives.
So, you know, how does Folgerlead that internally?
SPEAKER_01 (19:36):
Yeah.
Well, we have, from aconsumer-facing standpoint, we
have what's called the Folger'sBest Part Promise, which really
kind of brings all this togetherand talks about how we're
committed to sustainability forthe long term.
And then we do talk about itinternally, and we have groups
of people that focus theirenergy on making these things
come to life.
(19:57):
It's
SPEAKER_02 (19:57):
amazing.
The initiatives that bigcompanies like Folger can
really, you can really make adifference in the world.
Yes, it's Folger's in my cup,but there are other impacts.
SPEAKER_01 (20:10):
Yes, significant impacts.
SPEAKER_02 (20:13):
Let's talk a little bit about the future.
Sure.
What's next for Folgers?
SPEAKER_01 (20:19):
Well, we're all about understanding consumer
needs.
We are relentlessly focused onthe consumer.
And so right now we're lookingat what some of those trends
that are emerging or maybe arein progress right now.
And a good example of that isinstant coffee.
So Folgers has been in theinstant coffee business for
(20:39):
several decades.
But what we're seeing now is aresurgence in instant.
It's very versatile, very easyto use.
It's very easy to adjust yourstrength.
If you make a cup and you say,you know, I want a little bit
more coffee strength, you know,you can just take your teaspoon
and put a little bit more inthere.
And we also are seeing a lot ofusage in different temperature
(21:00):
states.
So for example, cold.
or consumers want to put itdirectly into milk and have it
dissolve.
And so we've been looking atthat very closely, and we
recently launched an icedcoffee, Folgers Iced Coffee
Instant, and that does exactlywhat I just mentioned.
It can dissolve in hot or cold,and you can also use water or
milk.
So it's a very versatileproduct.
(21:24):
So we're watching trends likethat and seeing where they're
going.
SPEAKER_02 (21:27):
I have a trend for you in my world of coffee.
It's interesting for me.
When I first get my cup ofcoffee, I let it sit.
I let it settle for maybe 15,Yeah, not 15 minutes, too cold.
Probably about 10 minutes.
Okay.
And then it's like at theperfect temperature.
Okay, yep.
But it doesn't stay there verylong.
(21:47):
Nope.
That's right.
So we end up, you know, havingto, you know, I want to get it
out.
I want to get it finished beforeit gets too cool, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (21:55):
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (21:55):
So maybe you can do something about that, Jim.
SPEAKER_01 (21:58):
Well, I'm going to write it down and take that
back.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (22:01):
Well, thank you for coming in for the show today.
SPEAKER_01 (22:04):
It's great to be here.
SPEAKER_02 (22:05):
Well, everybody, that's another edition of
Tomorrow's World Today.
Thanks for tuning in.
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
Thank you for listening to this episode of
Tomorrow's World Today podcast.
Join us next time as we continueto explore the worlds of
inspiration, creation,innovation, and production.
Discover more atTomorrowsWorldToday.com, connect
with us on social media at TWTExplore, and find us wherever
podcasts are available.
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