November 23, 2023 • 32 mins
I’d like to invite you on a personal journey - my journey - from the confines of a controlling cult to the warm embrace of a true community.
The rabbit hole goes deeper this week as we navigate the impact of Scientology on family dynamics. With me, you'll get to know a family whose business was closely tied to my grandfather's teachings of the church, and witness how my upbringing was shaped by it.
You'll also get a glimpse into my own unique family dynamic - from the tension stemming from my leaving Scientology, that led to my sister being excluded from our stepdad's funeral, to my mother's unconventional decision to marry her father-in-law.
Well, buckle up, as I take you on this emotional rollercoaster ride through memories of a Disneyland trip, strong familial bonds, alcoholism, and ultimately, self-discovery.
Learn more at https://www.tonkatalk.com where we share more about our Lake Minnetonka community, including upcoming events and our take on local experiences.
Connect with us on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/TonkaTalk/
If you have feedback, questions, or suggestions of a future guests creating community and connection, email natalie@tonkatalk.com
We appreciate your support in sharing Tonka Talk Community and Connection with someone you think could benefit from our content.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm Natalie Webster, and this is Tonka Talk, where we
share the ways people createcommunity and connection.
In addition to the weeklyinterviews that we do with
people sharing unique ways theycreate community, on Fridays I'm
sharing my own story of goingfrom a controlling cult for 35
years to being embraced by atrue community in the Lake
Minnetonka area, which is whereI work and live today.
(00:26):
I've been here about 30 yearsnow.
This is part three.
In part two, I shared how themurder of John Lennon by Mark
David Chapman resulted in mysister and I making our first
dedicated steps into taking ourfirst like real, true steps into
our Scientology indoctrination.
As children we had done a fewthings really minor prior.
(00:50):
This was when it really gotserious.
This is when John Lennon wasshot, when we were eight and ten
years old.
My personal story haseverything to do with why I want
to delve into and share storiesof human connection and
community.
For now, back to my story.
This is Grandpa Dad, lakeMinnetonka safe haven from
(01:13):
Scientology.
Part three, because Mark DavidChapman did go into the church
of Scientology across the streetfrom where he worked as a
security guard.
This was in Waikiki on theisland of Oahu, which is where I
grew up.
This was not long before heflew to New York and murdered
(01:33):
John Lennon.
After that happened, the churchof Scientology was once again in
the crosshairs of the FBI.
Now, in 1980, my mom worked forthe church of Scientology as
what's called a body router.
Let that sink in, body router,you route bodies.
Her job was to go out in theevenings when she worked on the
(01:56):
streets of Waikiki and recruitpeople back to the church
building to take personalitytests, which was a recruitment
tool that Scientology used andstill uses today.
From there, a Scientologistwould try to show that person
how aspects of their personalitywere ruining their lives, and
only Dianetics and Scientologycould fix it.
(02:19):
They would then be directed tobuy a book, a course or
counseling at the church.
Now there are universal truthsin Scientology that are just
that Universal truths InScientology.
You're led to believe thatthese truths were created by
Elrond Hubbard, when, in fact,most of what resonated with me
(02:39):
in Scientology is available forfree through many sources.
Universal truths are universaltruths because Scientology stops
its parishioners from exploringother sources of truth,
practicing other religions.
Many don't realize till theyleave that they paid a crazy
amount of money when they didn'tneed to.
(02:59):
That's a popular question I getis why do people stay or how do
they get in Scientology in thefirst place?
I was raised in it as a childtill.
My experience is a littledifferent, but, being introduced
to certain teachings inScientology, there were things
that did resonate for me and,interestingly, in the what's it
(03:21):
been like over a decade nowsince I left Scientology, I've
been exposed to a lot moreuniversal truths and different
sources of information and it'sinteresting to kind of connect
those Dots of no wonder thisresonated with me.
It's kind of like saying, beingin Scientology and you're told
this is an example.
This is not what happens, butit's.
(03:42):
This is an example of how itgoes.
You learn about gravity and andElron Hubbard discovered
gravity, and this is just thecoolest thing ever because you
experience gravity, gravity, youcan see it.
The more you learn about it,you understand it, you feel a
little bit more in control ofgravity, because now you can use
it as a tool.
Now Elron Hubbard did notcreate gravity, gravity is,
(04:05):
gravity is gravity.
For me, again, it's what Iwould call, like this, universal
truth.
It just is.
That is an example of kind ofhow this happens, because again,
there are things in Scientologythat can be put to good use,
that can, that can help people,but there's this whole other
side of it that Does the exactopposite or uses these universal
(04:29):
truths to control and harmpeople.
And again, and after growing upand being in Scientology for 35
years and being out now for alittle over a decade, that's how
I kind of see it and andunderstand it, and that's that's
basically how I answer thatquestion, which I do get often
why do people stay?
That's not the only reason theystay.
(04:49):
I would say that's kind of whatgets them in.
Is you do one thing it's likethe gateway drug is learning a
few communication skills andthey're helpful, and you go oh
okay, what else can Scientologydo for me?
And again, it just kind of goeson from there.
But back to 1980 it's 1980 mymom was an attractive 28 year
(05:12):
old at the time.
She had been a high schoolsenior when she became pregnant
with me.
Six months later she was astunning 18 year old Barbie like
bride, soon to become afirst-time mother at 28.
She was five years into hersecond marriage to an incredibly
talented wood carving artistwho happened to be a Paraplegic.
(05:34):
She met him when she was makinga living as an exotic dancer
after leaving my biological dad,who was never in Scientology.
Brian was a good stepdad and hewas a fascinating human.
He helped my mom walk away froma life that was not healthy in
multiple ways, helped her getcustody of my sister and I and
(05:54):
brought her and us into hisfamily, as well as Scientology,
where my mom eventually became astaff member.
She would work with Brian intheir wood carving shop during
the day, and evenings andweekends she would go down to
Waikiki and work at the churchand take us with her.
Now my mom was amazing atgetting groups of Mostly men
(06:15):
often in the military, becauseit was Waikiki and Oahu To
follow her from the busy streetsof Waikiki into the Church of
Scientology of Hawaii forpersonality death.
As a 10 year old I did not likeit.
I didn't like the way the menlooked at my mom or the comments
they often made.
Again, my sister and I werearound so we would see this
(06:36):
happen.
My sister Lana and I had heard,had heard my mom's pitch to
take a personality test so manytimes when she would go out to
the street to try and recruitpeople in.
Sometimes we would follow her,but we had to keep our distance
so it didn't look like that.
We were with her, and, and sowe'd heard this pitch so many
(06:56):
times.
So when we would draw thesepictures and Go across the
street to go see Mark, who cometo find out was Mark David
Chapman, we would sell them tohim to make money for candy.
I had talked about this in part2.
Now, telling our you know,quote friend, the security guard
, to take a personality testseemed like a natural thing to
do on occasion.
(07:17):
I'd seen my mom do it so manytimes.
Now I Cannot say with certaintythat as a 10 year old, I may
have inadvertently Body routedif you will that's the term
Scientology uses Mark DavidChapman into the Church of
Scientology, but the possibilitycrossed my mind a few times
Later in life, based on theseconversations that we had, which
(07:39):
weren't intense conversationsabout Scientology.
Remember we were 8 and 10.
We were just trying to hustlethese drawings to make some
money, to get some candy.
That was our whole hustle goingon at that time.
Now, here's the thing, thoughMark David Chapman did go into
the Church of Scientology, theand this was obviously before he
(08:00):
went to New York and shot JohnLennon not long before is how I
understand it.
Now, when Chapman did go intothe church, the staff member
said he was ranting that theplace was a cult.
He was like telling them thatthis is a cult, this is a cult.
I think it was weeks after thatagain that he flew to New York
(08:20):
and shot John Lennon, and thiswas in December of 1980.
Sometime after that the FBI andinvestigators were looking into
any connection to the church ofScientology in Hawaii.
I don't know if somebody said,hey, I've seen these kids
walking back and forth from thechurch, or if there was video
back then that in theirinvestigation they turned up, or
(08:43):
someone ratted on us thatthat's what we were doing, which
was nothing.
We weren't doing anything wrong.
We were eight and 10 makingthese pictures, just selling
them.
We had no idea and again, hehadn't done what he went on to
do.
Yet my sister and I we workedhard at these drawings.
(09:04):
I gotta say it was something wereally liked doing and we were
really motivated to get thecandy Really had a sweet tooth.
Ironically, right now I'mactually trying to detox from
sugar, which I've done a fewtimes because I cannot moderate
sugar.
I will tell you and I guess itsays a lot, that I was hustling
(09:24):
drawings at 10 to make money toget more candy.
So we started on the bridge tototal freedom, as it's called in
Scientology.
This was after things blew upwith the whole Mark David
Chapman thing, because my familygot in trouble.
My mom was questioned I thinkshe was questioned by the FBI is
(09:45):
what she told us later and inlarge part, too, what's our
connection with Mark DavidChapman, like what's happening
here and we were temporarilybanned for a while from the
church, which was fantastic fora while, but we did end up going
back.
My mom wanted to go back, andthe only way we could go back my
mom would be allowed to go backwould be if my sister and I
started on the bridge to totalfreedom, which is a series of
(10:09):
steps that you do in Scientology, that you pay for different
courses, different counselingand whatnot.
We were intertwining ourselveswith an organization that would
one day take my own child fromme, try to attempt to take my
firstborn, my daughter, from memore than one time, and we're
(10:30):
gonna talk about that more in alater episode, cause this was
not before.
This was at the time.
Right now our focus is how mygrandpa would become my dad, but
we'll talk more about whathappened with my daughter later
Now.
Fast forward a few years.
I'm about 12 years old.
This is after you know we'dgotten back into the good graces
with the church.
(10:50):
After the whole Mark DavidChapman thing, we weren't really
going to the church as much andI didn't quite understand why,
but in hindsight it makes moresense now why we weren't going
as much.
It was about this time, too,where music and books was my
escape from life.
(11:11):
I had my Walkman on with mycassette tape, my headphones on
and my nose in a book prettymuch all the time.
It was normal to find meperched on a sofa in the living
room, which also served as mybed, if there wasn't a bedroom
open in the house we were livingat, if it were even a house At
that time, like I said, we hadjust moved in with my
(11:31):
grandparents, so it was mygrandpa and grandma's house, my
stepdad's parents house.
We moved in with my mom becausemy mom and my stepdad had split
and we're going to be getting adivorce, which was a massive
bummer for us as kids, becausenot only did we love Brian.
It was the most stability thatwe'd known for a couple of years
(11:52):
, even despite the fact that twohomes earlier we were living in
an industrial warehouse with mymom and Brian, and I don't mean
one that was converted into achic condo, I mean a metal
roll-up door into an openwarehouse with our house stuff
in it.
It was a few doors down from mystepdad's wood carving shop
(12:13):
which made it easier for our momto keep an eye on us as she
would work at the wood carvingshop and then evenings and
weekends, you know, she'd go toWaikiki early when she was still
working for the church.
When we moved in with mygrandpa she was no longer
working for the church.
My step dad at the time, brian,was.
(12:33):
He was such an amazing artist.
He passed away not that longago.
Truly incredible artist.
He was known in Hawaii assimply as the woodcarver.
He the drawings that he coulddo.
And again remember he was aparaplegic and he got into a car
accident.
It was a drunk driving accidentin his early 20s and it
(12:54):
paralyzed him.
But drawing, sculpting, findingways to use his hands which
were they were, they would becurled up, but what he could do
was amazing.
His attitude and his sense ofhumor is what I remember most
about him and I think it's whatwe loved most about him.
(13:15):
So my mom had just moved us intoour grandparents' house.
Our parents are my step dad,brian.
I didn't really understand whythey were getting a divorce.
We didn't really get into thatthis my family dynamic.
Well, it's probably notuncommon in families.
So there's just some things youjust don't talk about and we
didn't talk about it.
It was kind of just we weretold that this was what would be
(13:37):
happening.
And that's about when westarted spending less time at
the church in Hawaii, whichhonestly, I was happy about.
That.
I wasn't missing it.
What was not missing from ourlives were endless discussions
and lectures around Scientology.
My grandpa was a patriarch ofthe family.
He was also the mostexperienced Scientologist in the
(13:58):
family, being the only one tohave made it to the coveted
Operating Thayton Level Three.
This is when you start theconfidential levels in
Scientology and the vast numberof Scientologists don't make it
up that far.
Today it goes up to eight.
Operating Thayton Level Eightis the highest you can go in
(14:19):
Scientology.
In my Scientology career I madeit to Operating Thayton Level
Four.
Now, at this point inScientology on your journey to
total freedom, as they call it.
This is where you learn aboutthe Galactic Overlord Xenu and
that, per Elwin Hubbard, we havethe trapped spirits of
(14:41):
off-world populations.
Some call them aliens attachedto us and that's what causes us
to do dumb things and throughScientology and these upper
levels in Scientology they wereconfidential.
If you ask a Scientologist,even one who's done these levels
, if Xenu is real, they'll walkaway.
(15:01):
They will not have aconversation with you about it,
because we're told that just theknowledge of this incident, of
what the Galactic Overlord Xenudid to control there was like a
problem with population that ifanyone had that knowledge and
they weren't prepared to useElwin Hubbard's techniques to
(15:22):
address what happened, that theycould get pneumonia and die.
To this day I don't know of oneperson that has ever gotten
pneumonia and die.
South Park did a very accurateepisode about this and I don't
think anyone got pneumonia anddied.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Idon't think so.
So, anyways, but you get itback.
Then it's like he was the onlyone who'd gotten to these levels
(15:43):
and these people were reallyrespected and revered.
Who would do these OperatingThayton Levels which cost a ton
of money.
So, simply put, my grandpa waslike our family's cult leader
this is he shared his knowledge,or at least his interpretation
of Scientology, with all of us.
He was like the source of it,which, interestingly, is
(16:07):
technically against Scientologyrules.
The way he positioned himselfas the source of the knowledge.
He credited Elrond Harbour.
But the way he spoke about andshared things is what is in
Scientology they would callverbal data, meaning you would
give information aboutScientology without showing the
actual writing by Elrond Harbourto back up that.
(16:27):
What you're saying is, in fact,what Elrond Harbour said Lots
of verbal data going on over theyears.
At this time, most of the familyalso worked for him at the
family business.
The employees of the companywere family, regardless of not
sharing a bloodline.
They'd come over often for anight of food, endless alcohol
and lectures on life by mygrandpa, and again, he was the
(16:51):
source from which the familycould be connected to
Scientology.
He had a beef with the localchurch of Scientology and no
longer went there and didn'twant his family members going
there either, which is why atthat time we kind of stopped
going for a little while, thoughhe didn't speak fondly of the
local church of Scientology inHawaii.
(17:12):
He regularly talked aboutElrond Harbour and Scientology
itself.
There were times when hismusings on life did resonate
with me, even at a young age.
But it was difficult to have tosit at the table for a long
period of time after dinner wasdone, listening to him go on and
on, sometimes talking incircles and repeating himself
(17:35):
depending on how many drinks hehad had by then, into the wee
hours of the night.
We weren't allowed to leave thetable till he excused us and
keep in mind we're kids, we'retweens, young teens at this
point and this could go on forhours.
A few times when he returnedhome late at night from a bar,
(17:56):
out with other family and my mom, he would wake us up for a
table slide discussion about howhard he works, how right he is
about the local church ofScientology being out of line,
or how he needed to learn towalk more softly in the house
which I'll give him that Hisroom was downstairs, and at that
time I'm sure we did walk likeelephants.
To this day I'm a soft, quietwalker because of this.
(18:19):
It was so indoctrinated and dous to not walk like an elephant,
which, honestly, is probably agood thing.
My mom would sit beside him andjust swoon.
I think it was a combination ofintoxication and blind
admiration at the same time,because remember he was in our
family the person who had madeit the furthest in Scientology.
(18:41):
You know, I remember once thatmy mom actually passed out
sitting up and my grandpa justsmiled and said he knew she was
still listening, still listening, he knew she was still
listening, even though she hadpassed out, was sitting there
just nodding off, cause againthey had come back from the bar
and we're continuing to drink.
(19:04):
You know, little sidebar, thealcoholism in my family is
something that was never talkedabout.
I started drinking when I was,I think, maybe 13 or so.
I'll probably talk more aboutthat later.
Children in Scientology are notseen as children.
You are spiritual beings withsmall bodies, so you're not
(19:27):
really looked at in the same way.
The thought in my family atthat time was that if we drank
with them, we wouldn't with ourfriends, which didn't completely
work out.
But more on that crazinesslater.
Today I don't drink.
I actually gave up alcoholseven years ago and it was one
of the smartest things I everdid for myself.
(19:48):
So we had a very unhealthyrelationship with alcohol in our
household, and the fact that mygrandpa was an alcoholic is
something that to this day, willnot be acknowledged by that
side of the family.
Now I gotta tell you, though,these lectures at the time did
make me wish I could drinkalcohol like the other adults
(20:10):
who were present and be seen asan active participant, but it
would kind of numb the night'shomegrown TED talk that went on
way too long.
To this day.
I sometimes have a difficulttime focusing in a meeting.
If there's several people andone person is talking, it's
something that I'm working on,or I should say, if they're not
(20:32):
just that, if they're justtalking and it goes on a little
too long, it's something I'mworking on, I'll get some
anxiety and my brain willcompletely just go someplace
else, because that's what I didwhen it would get uncomfortable.
Some of these topics he wouldtalk about were not comfortable,
were quite uncomfortable, butno one ever corrected him, no
(20:54):
one ever stood up to him, nobodyever would speak back to him.
That was just something youwould never, ever, ever do.
Our cousin from California, whowas my grandpa's favorite
grandchild, hands down, had cometo live with us.
She kind of lived with us onand off and we were about the
same age, which was fantastic.
Absolutely adored her.
Another side note she doesn'ttalk to me today not because she
(21:17):
and I had a falling out, butbecause the church of
Scientology will not allow it,even though she is not an active
Scientologist wasn't when I wasspeaking to her even some years
ago but because she has.
Well, her ex-husband is still aScientologist and comes down on
the family anytime they findout if I have any type of
(21:37):
interaction with them.
In fact, when my stepdad, brian,passed away, I did not go to
the funeral in Hawaii.
My sister went back and thereason I didn't go is I knew
that it would cause a scene.
It would be a whole thing and Ididn't want it to be about me.
I wanted it to be about Brianand celebrating his life.
(21:59):
So my sister, lana, goes backand one of the services was at
the Church of Scientology inHawaii and my sister was not
allowed in the building.
She was in the car during her.
Our stepdad's funeral.
Oh, makes me a little choked up.
I need a minute, all right?
(22:26):
This is why I don't video thisand we're doing it as a podcast.
She doesn't go to the funeral.
She has to sit in the car.
She's not allowed in thebuilding by the church.
Why?
Because she's my sister and atthis time I had been labeled
what's called a suppressiveperson in Scientology because I
dared to leave and speak outabout what happened and because
(22:49):
of this, scientologists are notallowed to interact with me in
any way.
She had performed, regardlessof their connection to me being
family or not.
So my sister goes all the waythere for this funeral.
She's not allowed in thebuilding, whatever that is, so
that it's just very typical, oneof the things that now, going
back to when we were kids, I'mgetting to the point of how he
(23:11):
actually became my dad.
You have to kind of excuse mytangents here.
I'm at home at our, you knowwhere we moved in with my
grandpa.
I was on the couch, which waspretty much was my bed.
There weren't enough bedroomsor bed in the house at the time
and I've got my headphones on.
I'm reading my book, which is,you know, taking me to my happy
(23:31):
place, getting away from what'sgoing on around me, and my mom
motions for me to.
You know, take down myheadphones, put down the book.
She had something to tell me wewhat happened.
Going back, I feel like I'm moreshocked today than I was in
that moment.
I think I don't think Iprocessed it in that moment.
(23:52):
In fact, I know I didn't, and alarge part of why I'm sharing
it and talking about it now, allof this is it helps me process
it.
So thank you for listening andworking through this with me.
I find it to be verytherapeutic to talk about it, to
answer questions about it.
It helps me see what happenedfrom different angles and the
(24:13):
more that I can understand it,the more I feel like I can
process a lot of the trauma andcrazy things that went on.
And most interesting to me ishow, how, today, how, how, the
person that it contributed to mebeing today.
I wish that I could become theperson that I am today in a
(24:33):
different way, but it happenedhow it happened.
So here I am on this couch inHawaii.
I'm about 12 years old.
My mom comes up to me and sheseems really excited.
She has something to share.
I'm like, okay, what?
And she says that she and mygrandpa are getting married.
Now, remember, we've been livingin this house with my grandma,
with my grandpa, with my aunt,with my cousin.
(24:54):
My stepdad was back at hishouse.
I knew they were getting adivorce.
That was bummer.
And now my mom's going to marrymy grandpa the only person I've
known as a grandpa because atthat time we weren't seeing my
biological dad.
I hadn't seen my biologicalgrandparents in.
I think it was like nine or 10years after my parents split,
(25:17):
before I actually saw them.
I did not know how to respond.
In that moment I my mind justwent right to, I think, the
silver lining, which is kind ofin my nature to do, and I
realized well, at least withthis divorce we're not going to
lose another family because Ihadn't seen my biological
(25:38):
grandparents, or even my dad.
For you know, nine years,almost a decade at one period,
because if my mom's marrying mygrandpa, that means my aunt, who
I just loved, my cousin, theywould all still be in my life.
So that's what I held on to.
That is what I held on to.
And my biggest question waswhat do we call him?
(26:00):
What are we going to call him?
Do we call him grandpa?
Do we call him dad?
Do we call him grandpa, dad?
I refer to him a lot today asgrandpa dad, but she said we
could still call him grandpa andwe did.
We called him grandpa evenduring the years that they were
married.
Now we ended up moving from thehouse to another house and we
(26:23):
lived with my mom, grandpa dad,me, my sister, two aunts.
Multi-generational living inHawaii is not uncommon.
Things are very expensive andit's just more part of the
culture both Asian and thePolynesian culture for families
to live together.
Now what ended up happening?
(26:47):
Remember he had a beef with thelocal church of Scientology so
we weren't really going as much.
We would go to an occasionalevent.
My mom really still wanted tobe trained in Scientology and do
more training and do moreservices and she wanted us to do
the same as well.
But then that created an issuewith my stepdad.
(27:08):
He didn't want us going to thelocal church.
My mom and my step, my stepdad,grandpa dad, my mom and grandpa
dad got married in California.
Actually, no, I think they gotmarried in Vegas, but they took
our family, my sister, myself,my cousin was there and couple
aunts and we went to Californiaand I thought it was fantastic
(27:28):
because it was the first timeI'd ever left Hawaii and I think
I was about maybe 13,.
I just turned 13.
They went off to Vegas fromthere and got married just the
two of them and, I think, one oftheir family member.
So the trip was really focusedon Disneyland and being off
island.
For the first time in my life Ihad never seen a billboard, so
(27:50):
that's mostly what I rememberabout that time.
In that trip they really madeit about having all this fun,
which that didn't happen on theregular.
We didn't really do much as afamily.
We would get together for mealsand there'd be a lot of alcohol
and a lot of Scientology, butnot so much with the vacationing
(28:10):
together and things like that.
When you're in Scientology,most of your resources, time and
money go to Scientology.
So they get married.
They were married for a fewyears.
I was able to still have arelationship with, of course, my
aunts and all that, and we keptall those same titles.
I didn't have to start callingmy aunt my sister.
(28:31):
That was, honestly my biggestconcern at that age was how do I
explain this to people?
You know, when kids getdivorced not kids, I'm sorry
when parents get divorced,sometimes that's the hard thing
for kids.
It's like, hey, my parents aredivorced, maybe not today,
because it's so much more common, right, wrong or indifferent.
Imagine your parents aregetting divorced you know,
(28:55):
possibly sharing that with yourpeer group as a tween and young
teen but your mom's marryingyour grandpa, and your friends
know who your grandpa is becausethey've been around you and
they've been at your house.
It was mortifying, to say theleast, and it's a secret that I
kept.
There weren't many peopleoutside of a few very close
(29:17):
friends that knew that my mommarried my grandpa.
I mean for obvious reasons.
I mean, just imagine, putyourself there.
It's already that my family's alittle odd because they know
that we're involved withScientology and now they know
that my mom has married mygrandpa.
It was just.
It was a mortifying time in mylife and I think now today it
(29:41):
was the beginning of me growingincredibly thick skin when it
came to who I was or havingpeople know who I am or about me
or things.
I do get embarrassed, but notabout the things that maybe the
average person would getembarrassed about, because I
think I lived such an extreme inareas of things that are
(30:04):
embarrassing and mortifying askids.
So that kind of I think was thebeginning of a lot of what I'm
gonna share with you as we moveforward.
I find that people find a lotof it pretty shocking.
I didn't even know that it wasshocking or odd or weird until I
left Scientology and startedsharing about these things and
again I wanna thank you forlistening because this is
(30:25):
helping me process it,especially this period where my
mom married my grandpa and whatcame later, what came after that
.
My grandpa would turn hisattention on me and not in a way
that I got in trouble forsomething that I did is a 13
year old that probably almostevery 13, 14, 15 year old out
(30:49):
there has done.
I was punished for it and I wassent out of the state for three
months and this really speaksto the kind of figure that he
was in our family, that he coulddictate this type of banishment
and nobody questions it.
I'm not gonna share that todaybecause this is going on for a
little bit longer, but I wantedto share.
I wanted to share more aboutthat tie with what happened with
(31:12):
Mark David Chapman and how wegot started in our
indoctrination in Scientologyand I guess this episode really
being about how my grandpabecame my dad.
When we chat next week, I'mgonna.
You know what?
Honestly, I don't know what I'mgonna share.
There's a couple of things Ihave in mind.
I would love your feedback.
(31:33):
I have no shortage of contentand things to share as we move
through my life, throughScientology and coming out the
other side.
So if you have questions,please reach out to me.
Natalie at tonkatalkcom.
I'd love to hear them.
I'm an open book.
I will answer them if I'm ableto.
I wanna thank you for listening.
(31:55):
This is part three of my story.
Next Friday I'm gonna draw partfour.
Would love to hear from you,but for now, I'll talk to you
later.
I'm Natalie Webster, and this is Tonka Talk, where we
share the ways people createcommunity and connection.
In addition to the weeklyinterviews that we do with
people sharing unique ways theycreate community, on Fridays I'm
sharing my own story of goingfrom a controlling cult for 35
years to being embraced by atrue community in the Lake
Minnetonka area, which is whereI work and live today.
(00:26):
I've been here about 30 yearsnow.
This is part three.
In part two, I shared how themurder of John Lennon by Mark
David Chapman resulted in mysister and I making our first
dedicated steps into taking ourfirst like real, true steps into
our Scientology indoctrination.
As children we had done a fewthings really minor prior.
(00:50):
This was when it really gotserious.
This is when John Lennon wasshot, when we were eight and ten
years old.
My personal story haseverything to do with why I want
to delve into and share storiesof human connection and
community.
For now, back to my story.
This is Grandpa Dad, lakeMinnetonka safe haven from
(01:13):
Scientology.
Part three, because Mark DavidChapman did go into the church
of Scientology across the streetfrom where he worked as a
security guard.
This was in Waikiki on theisland of Oahu, which is where I
grew up.
This was not long before heflew to New York and murdered
(01:33):
John Lennon.
After that happened, the churchof Scientology was once again in
the crosshairs of the FBI.
Now, in 1980, my mom worked forthe church of Scientology as
what's called a body router.
Let that sink in, body router,you route bodies.
Her job was to go out in theevenings when she worked on the
(01:56):
streets of Waikiki and recruitpeople back to the church
building to take personalitytests, which was a recruitment
tool that Scientology used andstill uses today.
From there, a Scientologistwould try to show that person
how aspects of their personalitywere ruining their lives, and
only Dianetics and Scientologycould fix it.
(02:19):
They would then be directed tobuy a book, a course or
counseling at the church.
Now there are universal truthsin Scientology that are just
that Universal truths InScientology.
You're led to believe thatthese truths were created by
Elrond Hubbard, when, in fact,most of what resonated with me
(02:39):
in Scientology is available forfree through many sources.
Universal truths are universaltruths because Scientology stops
its parishioners from exploringother sources of truth,
practicing other religions.
Many don't realize till theyleave that they paid a crazy
amount of money when they didn'tneed to.
(02:59):
That's a popular question I getis why do people stay or how do
they get in Scientology in thefirst place?
I was raised in it as a childtill.
My experience is a littledifferent, but, being introduced
to certain teachings inScientology, there were things
that did resonate for me and,interestingly, in the what's it
(03:21):
been like over a decade nowsince I left Scientology, I've
been exposed to a lot moreuniversal truths and different
sources of information and it'sinteresting to kind of connect
those Dots of no wonder thisresonated with me.
It's kind of like saying, beingin Scientology and you're told
this is an example.
This is not what happens, butit's.
(03:42):
This is an example of how itgoes.
You learn about gravity and andElron Hubbard discovered
gravity, and this is just thecoolest thing ever because you
experience gravity, gravity, youcan see it.
The more you learn about it,you understand it, you feel a
little bit more in control ofgravity, because now you can use
it as a tool.
Now Elron Hubbard did notcreate gravity, gravity is,
(04:05):
gravity is gravity.
For me, again, it's what Iwould call, like this, universal
truth.
It just is.
That is an example of kind ofhow this happens, because again,
there are things in Scientologythat can be put to good use,
that can, that can help people,but there's this whole other
side of it that Does the exactopposite or uses these universal
(04:29):
truths to control and harmpeople.
And again, and after growing upand being in Scientology for 35
years and being out now for alittle over a decade, that's how
I kind of see it and andunderstand it, and that's that's
basically how I answer thatquestion, which I do get often
why do people stay?
That's not the only reason theystay.
(04:49):
I would say that's kind of whatgets them in.
Is you do one thing it's likethe gateway drug is learning a
few communication skills andthey're helpful, and you go oh
okay, what else can Scientologydo for me?
And again, it just kind of goeson from there.
But back to 1980 it's 1980 mymom was an attractive 28 year
(05:12):
old at the time.
She had been a high schoolsenior when she became pregnant
with me.
Six months later she was astunning 18 year old Barbie like
bride, soon to become afirst-time mother at 28.
She was five years into hersecond marriage to an incredibly
talented wood carving artistwho happened to be a Paraplegic.
(05:34):
She met him when she was makinga living as an exotic dancer
after leaving my biological dad,who was never in Scientology.
Brian was a good stepdad and hewas a fascinating human.
He helped my mom walk away froma life that was not healthy in
multiple ways, helped her getcustody of my sister and I and
(05:54):
brought her and us into hisfamily, as well as Scientology,
where my mom eventually became astaff member.
She would work with Brian intheir wood carving shop during
the day, and evenings andweekends she would go down to
Waikiki and work at the churchand take us with her.
Now my mom was amazing atgetting groups of Mostly men
(06:15):
often in the military, becauseit was Waikiki and Oahu To
follow her from the busy streetsof Waikiki into the Church of
Scientology of Hawaii forpersonality death.
As a 10 year old I did not likeit.
I didn't like the way the menlooked at my mom or the comments
they often made.
Again, my sister and I werearound so we would see this
(06:36):
happen.
My sister Lana and I had heard,had heard my mom's pitch to
take a personality test so manytimes when she would go out to
the street to try and recruitpeople in.
Sometimes we would follow her,but we had to keep our distance
so it didn't look like that.
We were with her, and, and sowe'd heard this pitch so many
(06:56):
times.
So when we would draw thesepictures and Go across the
street to go see Mark, who cometo find out was Mark David
Chapman, we would sell them tohim to make money for candy.
I had talked about this in part2.
Now, telling our you know,quote friend, the security guard
, to take a personality testseemed like a natural thing to
do on occasion.
(07:17):
I'd seen my mom do it so manytimes.
Now I Cannot say with certaintythat as a 10 year old, I may
have inadvertently Body routedif you will that's the term
Scientology uses Mark DavidChapman into the Church of
Scientology, but the possibilitycrossed my mind a few times
Later in life, based on theseconversations that we had, which
(07:39):
weren't intense conversationsabout Scientology.
Remember we were 8 and 10.
We were just trying to hustlethese drawings to make some
money, to get some candy.
That was our whole hustle goingon at that time.
Now, here's the thing, thoughMark David Chapman did go into
the Church of Scientology, theand this was obviously before he
(08:00):
went to New York and shot JohnLennon not long before is how I
understand it.
Now, when Chapman did go intothe church, the staff member
said he was ranting that theplace was a cult.
He was like telling them thatthis is a cult, this is a cult.
I think it was weeks after thatagain that he flew to New York
(08:20):
and shot John Lennon, and thiswas in December of 1980.
Sometime after that the FBI andinvestigators were looking into
any connection to the church ofScientology in Hawaii.
I don't know if somebody said,hey, I've seen these kids
walking back and forth from thechurch, or if there was video
back then that in theirinvestigation they turned up, or
(08:43):
someone ratted on us thatthat's what we were doing, which
was nothing.
We weren't doing anything wrong.
We were eight and 10 makingthese pictures, just selling
them.
We had no idea and again, hehadn't done what he went on to
do.
Yet my sister and I we workedhard at these drawings.
(09:04):
I gotta say it was something wereally liked doing and we were
really motivated to get thecandy Really had a sweet tooth.
Ironically, right now I'mactually trying to detox from
sugar, which I've done a fewtimes because I cannot moderate
sugar.
I will tell you and I guess itsays a lot, that I was hustling
(09:24):
drawings at 10 to make money toget more candy.
So we started on the bridge tototal freedom, as it's called in
Scientology.
This was after things blew upwith the whole Mark David
Chapman thing, because my familygot in trouble.
My mom was questioned I thinkshe was questioned by the FBI is
(09:45):
what she told us later and inlarge part, too, what's our
connection with Mark DavidChapman, like what's happening
here and we were temporarilybanned for a while from the
church, which was fantastic fora while, but we did end up going
back.
My mom wanted to go back, andthe only way we could go back my
mom would be allowed to go backwould be if my sister and I
started on the bridge to totalfreedom, which is a series of
(10:09):
steps that you do in Scientology, that you pay for different
courses, different counselingand whatnot.
We were intertwining ourselveswith an organization that would
one day take my own child fromme, try to attempt to take my
firstborn, my daughter, from memore than one time, and we're
(10:30):
gonna talk about that more in alater episode, cause this was
not before.
This was at the time.
Right now our focus is how mygrandpa would become my dad, but
we'll talk more about whathappened with my daughter later
Now.
Fast forward a few years.
I'm about 12 years old.
This is after you know we'dgotten back into the good graces
with the church.
(10:50):
After the whole Mark DavidChapman thing, we weren't really
going to the church as much andI didn't quite understand why,
but in hindsight it makes moresense now why we weren't going
as much.
It was about this time, too,where music and books was my
escape from life.
(11:11):
I had my Walkman on with mycassette tape, my headphones on
and my nose in a book prettymuch all the time.
It was normal to find meperched on a sofa in the living
room, which also served as mybed, if there wasn't a bedroom
open in the house we were livingat, if it were even a house At
that time, like I said, we hadjust moved in with my
(11:31):
grandparents, so it was mygrandpa and grandma's house, my
stepdad's parents house.
We moved in with my mom becausemy mom and my stepdad had split
and we're going to be getting adivorce, which was a massive
bummer for us as kids, becausenot only did we love Brian.
It was the most stability thatwe'd known for a couple of years
(11:52):
, even despite the fact that twohomes earlier we were living in
an industrial warehouse with mymom and Brian, and I don't mean
one that was converted into achic condo, I mean a metal
roll-up door into an openwarehouse with our house stuff
in it.
It was a few doors down from mystepdad's wood carving shop
(12:13):
which made it easier for our momto keep an eye on us as she
would work at the wood carvingshop and then evenings and
weekends, you know, she'd go toWaikiki early when she was still
working for the church.
When we moved in with mygrandpa she was no longer
working for the church.
My step dad at the time, brian,was.
(12:33):
He was such an amazing artist.
He passed away not that longago.
Truly incredible artist.
He was known in Hawaii assimply as the woodcarver.
He the drawings that he coulddo.
And again remember he was aparaplegic and he got into a car
accident.
It was a drunk driving accidentin his early 20s and it
(12:54):
paralyzed him.
But drawing, sculpting, findingways to use his hands which
were they were, they would becurled up, but what he could do
was amazing.
His attitude and his sense ofhumor is what I remember most
about him and I think it's whatwe loved most about him.
(13:15):
So my mom had just moved us intoour grandparents' house.
Our parents are my step dad,brian.
I didn't really understand whythey were getting a divorce.
We didn't really get into thatthis my family dynamic.
Well, it's probably notuncommon in families.
So there's just some things youjust don't talk about and we
didn't talk about it.
It was kind of just we weretold that this was what would be
(13:37):
happening.
And that's about when westarted spending less time at
the church in Hawaii, whichhonestly, I was happy about.
That.
I wasn't missing it.
What was not missing from ourlives were endless discussions
and lectures around Scientology.
My grandpa was a patriarch ofthe family.
He was also the mostexperienced Scientologist in the
(13:58):
family, being the only one tohave made it to the coveted
Operating Thayton Level Three.
This is when you start theconfidential levels in
Scientology and the vast numberof Scientologists don't make it
up that far.
Today it goes up to eight.
Operating Thayton Level Eightis the highest you can go in
(14:19):
Scientology.
In my Scientology career I madeit to Operating Thayton Level
Four.
Now, at this point inScientology on your journey to
total freedom, as they call it.
This is where you learn aboutthe Galactic Overlord Xenu and
that, per Elwin Hubbard, we havethe trapped spirits of
(14:41):
off-world populations.
Some call them aliens attachedto us and that's what causes us
to do dumb things and throughScientology and these upper
levels in Scientology they wereconfidential.
If you ask a Scientologist,even one who's done these levels
, if Xenu is real, they'll walkaway.
(15:01):
They will not have aconversation with you about it,
because we're told that just theknowledge of this incident, of
what the Galactic Overlord Xenudid to control there was like a
problem with population that ifanyone had that knowledge and
they weren't prepared to useElwin Hubbard's techniques to
(15:22):
address what happened, that theycould get pneumonia and die.
To this day I don't know of oneperson that has ever gotten
pneumonia and die.
South Park did a very accurateepisode about this and I don't
think anyone got pneumonia anddied.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Idon't think so.
So, anyways, but you get itback.
Then it's like he was the onlyone who'd gotten to these levels
(15:43):
and these people were reallyrespected and revered.
Who would do these OperatingThayton Levels which cost a ton
of money.
So, simply put, my grandpa waslike our family's cult leader
this is he shared his knowledge,or at least his interpretation
of Scientology, with all of us.
He was like the source of it,which, interestingly, is
(16:07):
technically against Scientologyrules.
The way he positioned himselfas the source of the knowledge.
He credited Elrond Harbour.
But the way he spoke about andshared things is what is in
Scientology they would callverbal data, meaning you would
give information aboutScientology without showing the
actual writing by Elrond Harbourto back up that.
(16:27):
What you're saying is, in fact,what Elrond Harbour said Lots
of verbal data going on over theyears.
At this time, most of the familyalso worked for him at the
family business.
The employees of the companywere family, regardless of not
sharing a bloodline.
They'd come over often for anight of food, endless alcohol
and lectures on life by mygrandpa, and again, he was the
(16:51):
source from which the familycould be connected to
Scientology.
He had a beef with the localchurch of Scientology and no
longer went there and didn'twant his family members going
there either, which is why atthat time we kind of stopped
going for a little while, thoughhe didn't speak fondly of the
local church of Scientology inHawaii.
(17:12):
He regularly talked aboutElrond Harbour and Scientology
itself.
There were times when hismusings on life did resonate
with me, even at a young age.
But it was difficult to have tosit at the table for a long
period of time after dinner wasdone, listening to him go on and
on, sometimes talking incircles and repeating himself
(17:35):
depending on how many drinks hehad had by then, into the wee
hours of the night.
We weren't allowed to leave thetable till he excused us and
keep in mind we're kids, we'retweens, young teens at this
point and this could go on forhours.
A few times when he returnedhome late at night from a bar,
(17:56):
out with other family and my mom, he would wake us up for a
table slide discussion about howhard he works, how right he is
about the local church ofScientology being out of line,
or how he needed to learn towalk more softly in the house
which I'll give him that Hisroom was downstairs, and at that
time I'm sure we did walk likeelephants.
To this day I'm a soft, quietwalker because of this.
(18:19):
It was so indoctrinated and dous to not walk like an elephant,
which, honestly, is probably agood thing.
My mom would sit beside him andjust swoon.
I think it was a combination ofintoxication and blind
admiration at the same time,because remember he was in our
family the person who had madeit the furthest in Scientology.
(18:41):
You know, I remember once thatmy mom actually passed out
sitting up and my grandpa justsmiled and said he knew she was
still listening, still listening, he knew she was still
listening, even though she hadpassed out, was sitting there
just nodding off, cause againthey had come back from the bar
and we're continuing to drink.
(19:04):
You know, little sidebar, thealcoholism in my family is
something that was never talkedabout.
I started drinking when I was,I think, maybe 13 or so.
I'll probably talk more aboutthat later.
Children in Scientology are notseen as children.
You are spiritual beings withsmall bodies, so you're not
(19:27):
really looked at in the same way.
The thought in my family atthat time was that if we drank
with them, we wouldn't with ourfriends, which didn't completely
work out.
But more on that crazinesslater.
Today I don't drink.
I actually gave up alcoholseven years ago and it was one
of the smartest things I everdid for myself.
(19:48):
So we had a very unhealthyrelationship with alcohol in our
household, and the fact that mygrandpa was an alcoholic is
something that to this day, willnot be acknowledged by that
side of the family.
Now I gotta tell you, though,these lectures at the time did
make me wish I could drinkalcohol like the other adults
(20:10):
who were present and be seen asan active participant, but it
would kind of numb the night'shomegrown TED talk that went on
way too long.
To this day.
I sometimes have a difficulttime focusing in a meeting.
If there's several people andone person is talking, it's
something that I'm working on,or I should say, if they're not
(20:32):
just that, if they're justtalking and it goes on a little
too long, it's something I'mworking on, I'll get some
anxiety and my brain willcompletely just go someplace
else, because that's what I didwhen it would get uncomfortable.
Some of these topics he wouldtalk about were not comfortable,
were quite uncomfortable, butno one ever corrected him, no
(20:54):
one ever stood up to him, nobodyever would speak back to him.
That was just something youwould never, ever, ever do.
Our cousin from California, whowas my grandpa's favorite
grandchild, hands down, had cometo live with us.
She kind of lived with us onand off and we were about the
same age, which was fantastic.
Absolutely adored her.
Another side note she doesn'ttalk to me today not because she
(21:17):
and I had a falling out, butbecause the church of
Scientology will not allow it,even though she is not an active
Scientologist wasn't when I wasspeaking to her even some years
ago but because she has.
Well, her ex-husband is still aScientologist and comes down on
the family anytime they findout if I have any type of
(21:37):
interaction with them.
In fact, when my stepdad, brian,passed away, I did not go to
the funeral in Hawaii.
My sister went back and thereason I didn't go is I knew
that it would cause a scene.
It would be a whole thing and Ididn't want it to be about me.
I wanted it to be about Brianand celebrating his life.
(21:59):
So my sister, lana, goes backand one of the services was at
the Church of Scientology inHawaii and my sister was not
allowed in the building.
She was in the car during her.
Our stepdad's funeral.
Oh, makes me a little choked up.
I need a minute, all right?
(22:26):
This is why I don't video thisand we're doing it as a podcast.
She doesn't go to the funeral.
She has to sit in the car.
She's not allowed in thebuilding by the church.
Why?
Because she's my sister and atthis time I had been labeled
what's called a suppressiveperson in Scientology because I
dared to leave and speak outabout what happened and because
(22:49):
of this, scientologists are notallowed to interact with me in
any way.
She had performed, regardlessof their connection to me being
family or not.
So my sister goes all the waythere for this funeral.
She's not allowed in thebuilding, whatever that is, so
that it's just very typical, oneof the things that now, going
back to when we were kids, I'mgetting to the point of how he
(23:11):
actually became my dad.
You have to kind of excuse mytangents here.
I'm at home at our, you knowwhere we moved in with my
grandpa.
I was on the couch, which waspretty much was my bed.
There weren't enough bedroomsor bed in the house at the time
and I've got my headphones on.
I'm reading my book, which is,you know, taking me to my happy
(23:31):
place, getting away from what'sgoing on around me, and my mom
motions for me to.
You know, take down myheadphones, put down the book.
She had something to tell me wewhat happened.
Going back, I feel like I'm moreshocked today than I was in
that moment.
I think I don't think Iprocessed it in that moment.
(23:52):
In fact, I know I didn't, and alarge part of why I'm sharing
it and talking about it now, allof this is it helps me process
it.
So thank you for listening andworking through this with me.
I find it to be verytherapeutic to talk about it, to
answer questions about it.
It helps me see what happenedfrom different angles and the
(24:13):
more that I can understand it,the more I feel like I can
process a lot of the trauma andcrazy things that went on.
And most interesting to me ishow, how, today, how, how, the
person that it contributed to mebeing today.
I wish that I could become theperson that I am today in a
(24:33):
different way, but it happenedhow it happened.
So here I am on this couch inHawaii.
I'm about 12 years old.
My mom comes up to me and sheseems really excited.
She has something to share.
I'm like, okay, what?
And she says that she and mygrandpa are getting married.
Now, remember, we've been livingin this house with my grandma,
with my grandpa, with my aunt,with my cousin.
(24:54):
My stepdad was back at hishouse.
I knew they were getting adivorce.
That was bummer.
And now my mom's going to marrymy grandpa the only person I've
known as a grandpa because atthat time we weren't seeing my
biological dad.
I hadn't seen my biologicalgrandparents in.
I think it was like nine or 10years after my parents split,
(25:17):
before I actually saw them.
I did not know how to respond.
In that moment I my mind justwent right to, I think, the
silver lining, which is kind ofin my nature to do, and I
realized well, at least withthis divorce we're not going to
lose another family because Ihadn't seen my biological
(25:38):
grandparents, or even my dad.
For you know, nine years,almost a decade at one period,
because if my mom's marrying mygrandpa, that means my aunt, who
I just loved, my cousin, theywould all still be in my life.
So that's what I held on to.
That is what I held on to.
And my biggest question waswhat do we call him?
(26:00):
What are we going to call him?
Do we call him grandpa?
Do we call him dad?
Do we call him grandpa, dad?
I refer to him a lot today asgrandpa dad, but she said we
could still call him grandpa andwe did.
We called him grandpa evenduring the years that they were
married.
Now we ended up moving from thehouse to another house and we
(26:23):
lived with my mom, grandpa dad,me, my sister, two aunts.
Multi-generational living inHawaii is not uncommon.
Things are very expensive andit's just more part of the
culture both Asian and thePolynesian culture for families
to live together.
Now what ended up happening?
(26:47):
Remember he had a beef with thelocal church of Scientology so
we weren't really going as much.
We would go to an occasionalevent.
My mom really still wanted tobe trained in Scientology and do
more training and do moreservices and she wanted us to do
the same as well.
But then that created an issuewith my stepdad.
(27:08):
He didn't want us going to thelocal church.
My mom and my step, my stepdad,grandpa dad, my mom and grandpa
dad got married in California.
Actually, no, I think they gotmarried in Vegas, but they took
our family, my sister, myself,my cousin was there and couple
aunts and we went to Californiaand I thought it was fantastic
(27:28):
because it was the first timeI'd ever left Hawaii and I think
I was about maybe 13,.
I just turned 13.
They went off to Vegas fromthere and got married just the
two of them and, I think, one oftheir family member.
So the trip was really focusedon Disneyland and being off
island.
For the first time in my life Ihad never seen a billboard, so
(27:50):
that's mostly what I rememberabout that time.
In that trip they really madeit about having all this fun,
which that didn't happen on theregular.
We didn't really do much as afamily.
We would get together for mealsand there'd be a lot of alcohol
and a lot of Scientology, butnot so much with the vacationing
(28:10):
together and things like that.
When you're in Scientology,most of your resources, time and
money go to Scientology.
So they get married.
They were married for a fewyears.
I was able to still have arelationship with, of course, my
aunts and all that, and we keptall those same titles.
I didn't have to start callingmy aunt my sister.
(28:31):
That was, honestly my biggestconcern at that age was how do I
explain this to people?
You know, when kids getdivorced not kids, I'm sorry
when parents get divorced,sometimes that's the hard thing
for kids.
It's like, hey, my parents aredivorced, maybe not today,
because it's so much more common, right, wrong or indifferent.
Imagine your parents aregetting divorced you know,
(28:55):
possibly sharing that with yourpeer group as a tween and young
teen but your mom's marryingyour grandpa, and your friends
know who your grandpa is becausethey've been around you and
they've been at your house.
It was mortifying, to say theleast, and it's a secret that I
kept.
There weren't many peopleoutside of a few very close
(29:17):
friends that knew that my mommarried my grandpa.
I mean for obvious reasons.
I mean, just imagine, putyourself there.
It's already that my family's alittle odd because they know
that we're involved withScientology and now they know
that my mom has married mygrandpa.
It was just.
It was a mortifying time in mylife and I think now today it
(29:41):
was the beginning of me growingincredibly thick skin when it
came to who I was or havingpeople know who I am or about me
or things.
I do get embarrassed, but notabout the things that maybe the
average person would getembarrassed about, because I
think I lived such an extreme inareas of things that are
(30:04):
embarrassing and mortifying askids.
So that kind of I think was thebeginning of a lot of what I'm
gonna share with you as we moveforward.
I find that people find a lotof it pretty shocking.
I didn't even know that it wasshocking or odd or weird until I
left Scientology and startedsharing about these things and
again I wanna thank you forlistening because this is
(30:25):
helping me process it,especially this period where my
mom married my grandpa and whatcame later, what came after that
.
My grandpa would turn hisattention on me and not in a way
that I got in trouble forsomething that I did is a 13
year old that probably almostevery 13, 14, 15 year old out
(30:49):
there has done.
I was punished for it and I wassent out of the state for three
months and this really speaksto the kind of figure that he
was in our family, that he coulddictate this type of banishment
and nobody questions it.
I'm not gonna share that todaybecause this is going on for a
little bit longer, but I wantedto share.
I wanted to share more aboutthat tie with what happened with
(31:12):
Mark David Chapman and how wegot started in our
indoctrination in Scientologyand I guess this episode really
being about how my grandpabecame my dad.
When we chat next week, I'mgonna.
You know what?
Honestly, I don't know what I'mgonna share.
There's a couple of things Ihave in mind.
I would love your feedback.
(31:33):
I have no shortage of contentand things to share as we move
through my life, throughScientology and coming out the
other side.
So if you have questions,please reach out to me.
Natalie at tonkatalkcom.
I'd love to hear them.
I'm an open book.
I will answer them if I'm ableto.
I wanna thank you for listening.
(31:55):
This is part three of my story.
Next Friday I'm gonna draw partfour.
Would love to hear from you,but for now, I'll talk to you
later.
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