May 22, 2025 • 29 mins
Cohen Miles-Rath shares his powerful journey from psychosis and incarceration to becoming a mental health advocate and author.
His story reveals how proper support systems and personal determination transformed a life-altering crisis into a mission of education and advocacy that's changing how we approach mental health treatment.
• Surviving untreated schizoaffective disorder that led to a psychotic episode and incarceration
• Using the four dimensions of recovery—purpose, home, health, and community—to rebuild life
• Transitioning from jail to graduate school within a year through structured support
• Working with Mental Health Association in New York State and the Suicide Prevention Center
• Writing memoir "Mending Reality" to share experiences and reduce stigma around psychosis
• Speaking publicly to create understanding and empathy for serious mental illness
• Advocating for better interventions before people reach crisis points
• Emphasizing the distinction between general mental health challenges and mental illness
• Building communities where recovery becomes not just possible but probable
• Using personal vulnerability to help others develop empathy for those experiencing mental illness
If you know anyone who would like to tell their story, send them to TonyMantor.com and they may become a guest on Why Not Me? The World.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to why Not Me ?
The World Podcast, hosted byTony Mantor, broadcasting from
Music City, usa, nashville,tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell ustheir stories.
Some will make you laugh, somewill make you cry.
Their stories Some will makeyou laugh, some will make you
(00:30):
cry.
Real life people who willinspire and show that you are
not alone in this world.
Hopefully, you gain moreawareness, acceptance and a
better understanding for autismaround the world.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
(00:53):
Welcome to why Not Me?
The World Humanity Over HandCuffs the Silent Crisis special
event.
Joining us today is CohenMiles-Rath, a powerful voice in
mental health advocacy.
Cohen's journey is one ofresilience.
After battling untreatedschizoaffective disorder, he
(01:15):
survives a life-alteringpsychotic episode that nearly
ended in tragedy and led to hisincarceration.
Today, he's an author, speakerand educator, sharing his story
to break the stigma aroundmental illness.
With a focus on communitypolicy and political action.
Cohen facilitates mental healthtraining and influences change,
inspiring others with hismessage of recovery and hope.
(01:36):
He's a beacon for those thatare navigating their own
struggles.
It's a pleasure to have himhere today.
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, I appreciate you having me.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
It's my pleasure.
Would you give us a littlebackground on what you do?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I have been in the mental health advocacy field for
more than a half a decade now.
I worked at the Mental HealthAssociation in New York State
for five years.
If you're familiar with the MHANetwork on Mental Health
America, they're an affiliate oftheirs and it was work around
policy advocacy, implementingtraining throughout New York
(02:11):
State mental health relatedtraining.
We offered a bunch of differenttrainings and so forth.
In the past year I moved on tothe New York State Office of
Mental Health, which I work for,the Suicide Prevention Center,
in which I do similar work butgeared towards suicide
prevention.
That's my professional space.
Now I also have my own storywith mental illness in which
(02:33):
I've written a memoir about andI am publishing that memoir this
year.
I've spent about six yearstrying to get this thing
published and on top of thatI've been out doing speaking
engagements, telling my story,sharing the peer perspective
about going through systems suchas incarceration and
hospitalizations and so forth.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I think that's great.
You've written a book.
Anything you put out there justhelps others.
Can you give us a little bit ofbackground on what led you to
believe that you had some mentalhealth issues?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah.
So that's a great question,because I did not have any
inclination to accept thedifficulties that I was facing
with my mental health, which didincrease to a severe mental
health crisis, until after theworst of my mental health crisis
had happened, and that was theday that I came back from
(03:24):
psychosis in jail, where I hadcome back to reality and
realizing what had happened.
From that moment on, I did acomplete 180, embracing mental
health treatments, accepting mymental illness and eventually
getting to where I'm at today.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Once you got out, what was your focus?
To get you back on track, asteady path from what you were
to what you became today.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Due to the incidents that had happened between my
father and I that I was arrested.
For my first week in jail I wasin like a severe state of
psychosis.
I was in solitary confinementand I'd experienced just this
horrific situation in which,when I did come back and realize
(04:18):
what had happened, I wasn'tsure I was ever going to get out
.
I had two felonies, potentialfelonies, and fortunately, due
to a lot of certaincircumstances, the court
recognized what had happened wasclearly a result of a severe
mental illness, and I'd beenhospitalized twice before this
too.
So there was a little bit ofhistory and past to that in
(04:39):
which I was able to get out ofjail after 30 days.
I had mandatory treatments.
I was on probation for a year.
It was a conditional discharge,so it wasn't just I'm getting
out, that's it.
There were certain things thatI had to do to maintain my
freedom, or everything couldcome back, and one felony was
dropped.
The other felony was reduceddown to a misdemeanor.
I did get that on my record.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So during that process it took you about a year
to get fully on track Werethere any down days?
Did you ever have moments whereyou thought what am I doing, or
is this even working?
What was your mindset like asyou progressed from point A to
point B, to where you are now?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
How I like to frame that part of my experience is
really through what's known asthe four dimensions of recovery,
which a lot of mental healthorganizations talk about.
The four dimensions of recovery, which are purpose, home,
health and community.
So, like when I got out of jail, my mom opened up her home.
My parents were separated.
They had been separated all mylife and, due to the incident
(05:43):
with my dad, he wasn't willingto let me live with him for
valid reasons.
It took a lot of us to buildour trust together, but my mom
opened the doors.
She gave me a place of home, aplace of comfort, a place where
I could really just focus onmanaging my treatment.
So I lived with my mom.
I picked up a job at BurgerKing, so I gained some
(06:03):
independence.
Fortunately, I was in a spotwhere I could walk to work.
I didn't have a car.
I was able to walk to mytreatment.
I was seeing a psychiatrist ora nurse practitioner, I was
seeing group therapy, I wasseeing substance misuse therapy
and I was seeing a mental healthcounselor like four things
every week.
Right, and that's how dedicatedmy rehabilitation was to the
health dimension.
(06:23):
A lot of that I had to do aspart of my conditional discharge
.
In that space I was veryvulnerable and I was very active
in wanting to know how tomanage my mental health and my
diagnosis a lot better than Iwas before.
So health, home was taken careof.
The community aspect I stillhad a lot of friends.
I was in a community of supporttoo.
(06:45):
That really, I think, supportedme in getting through that
process.
And then, lastly, purposeBefore I went to jail, I was
going to college, a four-yeardegree at SUNY Geneseo, which is
a small university in upstateNew York.
I was expelled after whathappened when I got arrested.
I was able to get back in afterI got out of jail and there I
was able to finish out my degree.
(07:06):
I had a couple of classes left.
I was able to get my degree anda plan for the future, which
was to pursue my master's degreein social work.
So I had a purpose to my lifethat really helped me go from
jail to grad school within ayear or so, something like that.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
That's impressive.
You should really be proud ofyour accomplishments.
You got through and managed toaccomplish what you started out
to do.
Now, after navigating all ofthat, what inspired you to
pursue social work and dedicateyourself to helping others?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
It was a very tough time in my life.
There were days because I'dhave to walk a mile to Burger
King to work.
I was also taking medicationand some of the side effects of
the medication included feelingdraggy and slow and like my
creative thinking was gone.
It was really tough.
It was a really tough timebecause there were a lot of
times I doubted myself and evenwhen trying to get pursue a
(08:02):
master's degree in social work,I had a huge stigma over my
experience that I went through.
I'd attacked my dad with aknife and that was in the local
news when the incident happenedand that created barriers for me
, worrying about gettingaccepted in the grad school.
Every grad school asked have youever been expelled from college
?
I had to say yes and then I hadto share my story in a way that
(08:23):
would get them to understand.
There was a lot of doubt and Ilike to think that I was really
privileged to have all thosefour dimensions, and really
strengthen those four dimensionsreally helped me just keep that
forward momentum going.
I will also add that prior toall of this, I was also a big
athlete.
All my life I was a verydedicated distance runner and a
(08:43):
lot of those characteristicsthat I've learned in that sport,
I think, helped me to do thesame in this process, where you
have to do a lot of hard work toget where you want to get and
to be your idea of success withwhatever it is.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, that's true.
Success is basically what youare happy doing and continue to
do.
So what led you to shift yourcareer focus from becoming a
substance use counselor ortherapist in social work and
transitioning to advocacy?
How did your graduate schoolexperience influence this
(09:18):
decision?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, so I initially wanted to get my master's in
social work to become asubstance use counselor or
therapist.
That was what I initially hadthought of.
Substance use counselor or atherapist, that was what I
initially had thought of.
But then in grad school, as Icontinued to learn about mental
health from that clinical pointof view and with social work
they don't just focus on directservice, that degree, they do
(09:42):
branch out to advocacy and themore macro work.
And I realized in my studiesthere that that's just how my
mind went, how my mind thinks.
So that's when I really wantedto be more involved with the
advocacy piece and then it wasall about just finding a
position after grad school thatcould align with that.
And I know that with my story,with my experience, I always
(10:04):
knew that I wanted to bring thatinto the picture, because what
I learned is that stories canreally make an impact.
When people hear these types ofexperiences, it allows them to
relate and understand anotherperson's point of view with it
and I think that helps to fuelmore effective advocacy and more
effective ideas and how thereare certain things that we can
(10:25):
change in our systems, ourculture, to better serve people
who might go through those typeof experiences as well.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Looking back on your journey, now that you're an
advocate, you've experienced allthe ups and downs that come
with it.
Was there a single moment thatstood out, a turning point that
lit the way forward, somethingthat reassured you that things
were falling into place,confirmed you were on the right
(10:53):
path, and then fueled yourambition or ability to create
even more?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
The first time that I wrote about my experience, the
first time that I was vulnerablein that public space, was
actually in my second year ofgrad school.
When I had done that, I wrote ablog post for NAMI National
Alliance of Mental Illness andthat really, I think, based on
people's responses and howpeople would come up to me
(11:21):
afterwards and be vulnerableabout themselves to me that was
like, okay, there's something tothat, there's something to me
being vulnerable in a publicspace that could help others,
and that was a spark.
Once I got in my professionalposition, I got my eight
dimensions of wellness allstructured my financial wellness
.
I'm living comfortably.
(11:41):
I can now open up my experiencein a much more versatile way,
and that's when I startedwriting my memoir and putting my
heart and soul into that so Icould really leap forward with
it.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
That's really good.
I'm glad that you've been ableto do that.
Can you give us the name ofyour book?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yes, it's Mending Reality.
An Advocate's ExistentialJourney with Mental Health.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
When you wrote your book.
I have some friends of minethat are writers.
They've said that once theystart putting those
old-fashioned words to paper, itoften takes over and seems to
write itself.
So my first question is didthat happen to you?
Did you start writing andsuddenly find it just flowing
out?
(12:23):
And when it did start flowing,did you begin looking at it and
tweaking it?
Then what emotions came up asyou read what you had put down,
realizing this is me, this is mylife, this is what it's been.
How did that affect you?
What type of emotions wentthrough your mind at that point?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yes, I will say that as soon as I started putting pen
to paper, I mean, and it flowedPart of that writing experience
was coping for me, theexperience with psychosis, being
in jail, thinking that I was aprophet, thinking that I
discovered the truth of theuniverse.
There was a grandiose nature toit too.
(13:09):
It's such a challengingexperience and even the incident
with my dad attacking him likethat haunted my dreams for many
years after the incident.
So, going through that writingprocess, it really served my own
therapeutic process of justputting it out there and reading
it and it helped to cope withit.
(13:29):
And in many cases it wastriggering.
But again, being vulnerablewith myself, I think, helped me
really understand myself evenbetter, my mental health, my
diagnosis, and there was a lotof challenges since I've written
it, but it was definitely veryhelpful, I think, overall in
just my own mental health.
I mean, I spent five years onthis thing, this book, and I
(13:54):
didn't know if it was going toget published or not for a long
time, and that was a wholedifferent set of challenges that
I've somehow found a way toovercome and get to the position
where it's actually going to bereleased, and I will say that
I'm not terrified.
A lot of people have read thisbook, but not the general public
, so it does get a lot of reads.
I'm not worried or stressedabout how people might react to
it, because the way that I'vewritten it I really think can
(14:15):
impact people significantly andmake them understand that type
of experience a lot further.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
You do a lot of public speaking and you just
mentioned that you feelcomfortable sharing your
experiences with others.
What's it like to tell yourstory to a captive audience?
What goes through your mind asyou speak and then afterwards,
when people come up to you eagerto learn more because your
words have touched them in a waythat could help them move
(14:42):
forward in their own lives?
How does that make you feel?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
That's the most meaningful part of doing my work
with this.
Last year, about a year ago,stood before 200 plus mental
health advocates at an advocacyday up in Albany.
I had 10 minutes to share mystory in a way that captivated
them and inspired them toadvocate right there.
The way I structure my speakingI try to make it gripping and
(15:08):
pull you in.
The first sentence I say iswhen I was 22 years old, facing
a mental health crisis, I triedto kill my dad and I remember
when I say that, the audienceyou see those gasps, you see
those eyes widen, and then it'sa hook that pulls them in.
Then I take it apart, right, andI'm like what could have
prevented this?
And they're seeing me at thestage, they're seeing someone
(15:29):
who's done that in front of themand I think that in itself is
wow.
There's a lot more to thisstory.
There's so much more to thestory.
I did have many students comeup to me after that talk just
thank me for being vulnerableand appreciating me doing that,
because the advocacy day isreally meant to provide a space
for that.
And when eventually, during theday, they go out and they allow
(15:51):
students to grab the mic andshare their own story.
I could hear them sharing theirdifficulties and their
challenges and I do like tothink that by me doing that
created a space for them to dothat themselves, and I think
that just helps to fuel thismomentum around changing how we
approach mental health incircumstances that are very
(16:13):
difficult.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Do you still engage with or advocate for changes in
the legal system?
If you do, how do you approachit?
What personal experiences orperspectives drive your stance
so this can be a better systemfor everyone involved?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
At this point in my career I'm geared more towards
trying to improve our trainingsand our education around mental
health.
As far as specificincarceration systems, I do keep
up to date with what ishappening and I will support
other people's work with that.
When I share that part of mystory about going through the
incarceration system and myexperience with that, I think it
(16:53):
opens up that discussion.
Clearly, jail was not the rightplace for me.
If you hear more about what itwas like to be in solitary
confinement with psychosis, butwhat would be the place for me
in that type of state?
I thought I was in hell.
I was trying to give birth toSatan's child.
I literally physically tried todo that in the middle of a cell
.
There are so many dark,difficult things.
(17:15):
But what place would be bestfor me to recover in a state of
like that?
I don't know.
There's a discussion there.
There's a discussion there.
There's a way to approach thatbetter, and it's a complex
system and there's no one easyanswer.
So I'm always trying to be opento hearing the multiple
perspectives and striving forthe best solution, which I'm not
sure what is, but I think wecan get there.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So, in the next three to five years, what do you
envision on the horizon for thefuture, whether it's personal
goals, society changes orbroader possibilities?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
My goals over the three to five years is first, I
really just want to get my storyout there which it's already
been out there, but I'm excitedfor my book publication and I'm
really hoping that continue themomentum with that.
Get more speaking engagementsbecause of it.
This summer I'm actually goingto a conference out in Texas.
It's called Empath Consultingand they've created an
(18:04):
alternative to emergency crises,for mental health crises.
So I'm really interested inlearning more about that model
that they've started toimplement in a couple states and
share my perspective there tohelp them fine-tune that type of
model.
And if it works, I would like tojust continue getting in front
of those type of mentalprofessionals, people in the
(18:25):
field, people doing this work sothat a way they could find ways
to better fine-tune whatthey're doing and advocate for
those changes that they need intheir own communities, Because
every community is different,Every state is different.
It's just basically to continuethat momentum and hopefully
just get more opportunities todo this.
Would I love to write anotherbook?
Yes, that will hopefully comedown the line.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Right now it's just get my book out there and start
speaking as much as I can.
When you stand in front ofpeople, do you try to express
yourself in a way that lets themsee what you've been through,
how you've responded to it andwho you are now.
That way, hopefully, you canshorten their journey by showing
them that, no matter whatthey're experiencing, there's
always hope that things canchange for them in their future.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, when I share my experience, I go back to
childhood, because I go step bystep.
I'm not diving into everythingin my life, but I'm touching on
these key points, from childhoodto college, to when I first
started facing mental illness,when my signs and symptoms got
worse, when I got interventionin hospital and then when I
(19:35):
faced a crisis and the wholerecovery portion.
And I've done that because inthis framework of mental health
field and how we can betterapproach mental health, it is
just so complex.
So when I talk about mychildhood, I talk about some
adverse childhood experiences,aces something that has a lot of
research behind it that showsthat it's a risk factor for
future mental health challengesand so forth.
(19:57):
So I'm using my expertise thatI've learned in mental health
advocacy in my story throughoutthe time, so that way it's not
just oh, this was just myexperience, but there is
research and knowledge behindall of this that I use to show
how there were so manyopportunities prior to that
incident in which I could havegotten the help, or my help
(20:18):
could have been more effectiveto where the incident could have
been prevented, and it did nothave to get to that crisis point
for me to finally accept mymental illness and I hope that
when people hear that they'relike, they're thinking like oh,
I could do something, now if I'mstruggling, I could help
someone else who I know isstruggling, so that way helping
them could get more effective.
(20:38):
So they're never at thatpotential crisis point or even
like getting to a point wherethey're just really struggling
and no one is willing to help.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah, I think that's a great message to put out there
for everyone.
I've spoken with several peoplewho've faced challenges lasting
anywhere from a year to 10years.
While the duration varies foreveryone, a common thread stands
out there's hope On the otherside of that journey.
(21:09):
You can address your struggles,refine your approach, create a
plan to improve things, toimprove things.
Each person I talked to, evenwhen they were at their lowest,
when others looked at them andthought they were finished,
incapable of bouncing back, theyrefused to give up.
They pushed through, survivedand now they're thriving.
So the real question is how dowe overcome the stigma?
(21:33):
How do we help people see that,yes, mental health carries a
certain stigma, but it doesn'thave to be purely negative?
How do we highlight thepositive, that once people
navigate their challenges, theycan emerge stronger and show the
world what they've overcome?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I always say that recovery is not just possible
but probable in the rightcircumstances.
We as family, as friends, ascoworkers, as parents, as just
people in the community, we havethat opportunity and space to
help create those circumstancesin which people are more likely
(22:12):
to get the help they need.
And that, to me, speaks to thatgood side of this conversation
and this hopeful aspect to it,because, yes, we can dive into
specific policies that mightchange certain aspects in the
systems that would help improve,but that's one piece of this in
(22:33):
our communities and ourinterpersonal relationships and
even ourselves can do to startmaking that change within and be
in better positions where, ifwe're ever in a position facing
a mental health challenge oreven experiencing mental illness
, we're better positioned tomanage it and to change it and
to support it.
So, like I know a big componentfor me and I'm interested in
(22:55):
people you've also talked tolike there's a big
responsibility on my own Eversince I'd gotten my diagnosis
and went through that experiencelike I have a responsibility to
manage that I do and if I everstruggle with it, I go to my
family, I go to my dad, I go tomy girlfriend, I talk to people
because I know that I can relyon them or have them be there to
support me through it if I'mstruggling to manage it myself.
(23:18):
Getting to that point ofacceptance for the individual is
a very challenging thing, and Iwouldn't want anyone to go
through such a severe crisis tofinally have that awareness of
it, but rather creatingcompletely different
circumstances long before thatever happened, so that a way,
they're more likely to accept itinitially.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Okay, that's a good point.
We've covered a lot of goodthings here.
What would you like thelisteners to know that you think
is very important about mentalhealth and the challenges that
they?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
face.
I think one of the mostimportant things to tell people
about this is there's so much,but I think conversations around
mental health have increasedsignificantly, especially since
COVID had happened, and there'sbeen so many positives with that
, and I think the conversationshave just been amazing and I
(24:13):
think this is an important piece.
There needs to be recognitionof mental illness is a bit
different than a mental healthchallenge when you start to.
There needs to be recognitionof mental illness is a bit
different than a mental healthchallenge when you start to face
certain signs and symptoms ofmental illness, and it does take
a different approach thanhaving a fight with someone or
through a job loss or somethinglike that.
There are certain aspects ofmental illness that not everyone
faces, but a lot of people do,just based on certain
(24:34):
predispositions or other factors.
So I think there still is a lotof stigma with certain mental
illness, particularly withschizophrenia, psychosis and so
forth.
So, as the greater public ishaving a conversation about
mental health, I just want tomake sure that we're also
talking about these types ofdiagnoses and these types of
signs and symptoms that lookdifferent for every person, but
also that we need to talk aboutthat as well, and we need to be
(24:57):
open about that too, becauseanyone can face a mental illness
.
One in five people do.
So we just kind of make surewe're taking care of those who
are most vulnerable and strugglepotentially the most.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
I think that's a great statement.
This just highlights the needfor more understanding, since
everyone has different issuesand deals with them in their own
way.
Just because one person handlesa crisis a certain way doesn't
mean everyone else will be thesame in the way they handle
their crisis.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, and I'm very forward with the incident that I
went to or went through tominimize like attacking my dad
with a knife, believing thedevil was inside him, because at
face value, people read thatand they're like, oh my God,
it's so hard to fathom and it'sso stigmatized.
I faced significant shame eversince that happened, gone
(25:52):
through processes of managingthat and my work has reduced
that.
But still to bring somethinglike that to the table I think
helps to be like okay, likemaking people have empathy for
me right With that situation.
I think helps other people tohave empathy for anyone who goes
through something such as thatand encourages us to do more so
(26:12):
that, away again, people don'tget to that crisis point.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
You just mentioned something that I think is
important to talk about.
Some people don't get to thatcrisis point.
You just mentioned somethingthat I think is important to
talk about.
Some people don't have thetouch of empathy and, since they
haven't walked your path, theydon't fully get it.
Without meaning to, they saythings that sting, not seeing
the weight of their words.
You've been through it, you'velived it and now you're moving
(26:37):
forward.
You've changed, evolved.
You're not the same person youwere.
How do you deal with those who,in their ignorance, can't see
the depth of what you?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
faced Initially.
The first time that I feltsignificant shame due to my
situation was after I'd gottenout of jail and I went on the
Facebook and I looked at thecomments on the news articles
about me my mugshot plasteredeverywhere words saying son
bites his father's ear off.
The comments they were makingjokes.
(27:10):
They were making jokes aboutMike Tyson.
They were just brutal.
I remember reading those and Iremember I felt the shame but
also at the same time I was like, okay, these people, I don't
know these people, they'restrangers to me, they don't know
anything about what hadhappened and I just knew that
and I was like I so I wasn'tlike significantly bothered
(27:30):
because I was like I'm stillhere and I'm gonna prove them
wrong.
And that probably helped fuelmy whole path to in some aspect
is that I wanted to show themand I'm going to prove them
wrong.
And that probably helped fuelmy whole path to in some aspect
is that I wanted to show themand I wanted to tell them like,
okay, there's so much more tothis and it wasn't just the
public who had also shamed me.
I heard rumors from people incollege, my friends.
(27:51):
So there's always been a levelof uncertainty with people's
comfortableness with me andwillingness to do that.
But ever since I've gotten tothe point where I am and I'm
trying to be more active onsocial media and everything that
I've done so far, like I cansee the cognitive shift in
people that I've interacted withthroughout the years that I
could tell that they've builtempathy for me and that level of
(28:13):
empathy has increased becauseI've been able to show my
perspective, reveal it and I'vebeen very active with it, which
not everyone does, and that'sokay.
But hopefully, if they can haveempathy for my incident, maybe
when they see something in thenews about another incident or
something else that happens andthey don't know enough about it,
(28:35):
maybe they'll have more empathyfor that too.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
That's a great point.
Well, this has been really goodgreat information, great
conversation.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to come on.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Thank you for having me, tony.
I really appreciate thisconversation.
It's been my pleasure.
Thanks again, thanks for takingthe time out of your busy
schedule to listen to our showtoday.
We hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as we enjoyed bringing it
to you.
If you know anyone that wouldlike to tell us their story,
(29:13):
send them to TonyMantorcomContact then they can give us
their information so one daythey may be a guest on our show.
One more thing we ask telleveryone everywhere about why
Not Me, the world, theconversations we're having and
(29:34):
the inspiration our guests giveto everyone everywhere that you
are not alone in this world.
Welcome to why Not Me ?
The World Podcast, hosted byTony Mantor, broadcasting from
Music City, usa, nashville,tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell ustheir stories.
Some will make you laugh, somewill make you cry.
Their stories Some will makeyou laugh, some will make you
(00:30):
cry.
Real life people who willinspire and show that you are
not alone in this world.
Hopefully, you gain moreawareness, acceptance and a
better understanding for autismaround the world.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
(00:53):
Welcome to why Not Me?
The World Humanity Over HandCuffs the Silent Crisis special
event.
Joining us today is CohenMiles-Rath, a powerful voice in
mental health advocacy.
Cohen's journey is one ofresilience.
After battling untreatedschizoaffective disorder, he
(01:15):
survives a life-alteringpsychotic episode that nearly
ended in tragedy and led to hisincarceration.
Today, he's an author, speakerand educator, sharing his story
to break the stigma aroundmental illness.
With a focus on communitypolicy and political action.
Cohen facilitates mental healthtraining and influences change,
inspiring others with hismessage of recovery and hope.
(01:36):
He's a beacon for those thatare navigating their own
struggles.
It's a pleasure to have himhere today.
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, I appreciate you having me.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
It's my pleasure.
Would you give us a littlebackground on what you do?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
I have been in the mental health advocacy field for
more than a half a decade now.
I worked at the Mental HealthAssociation in New York State
for five years.
If you're familiar with the MHANetwork on Mental Health
America, they're an affiliate oftheirs and it was work around
policy advocacy, implementingtraining throughout New York
(02:11):
State mental health relatedtraining.
We offered a bunch of differenttrainings and so forth.
In the past year I moved on tothe New York State Office of
Mental Health, which I work for,the Suicide Prevention Center,
in which I do similar work butgeared towards suicide
prevention.
That's my professional space.
Now I also have my own storywith mental illness in which
(02:33):
I've written a memoir about andI am publishing that memoir this
year.
I've spent about six yearstrying to get this thing
published and on top of thatI've been out doing speaking
engagements, telling my story,sharing the peer perspective
about going through systems suchas incarceration and
hospitalizations and so forth.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I think that's great.
You've written a book.
Anything you put out there justhelps others.
Can you give us a little bit ofbackground on what led you to
believe that you had some mentalhealth issues?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah.
So that's a great question,because I did not have any
inclination to accept thedifficulties that I was facing
with my mental health, which didincrease to a severe mental
health crisis, until after theworst of my mental health crisis
had happened, and that was theday that I came back from
(03:24):
psychosis in jail, where I hadcome back to reality and
realizing what had happened.
From that moment on, I did acomplete 180, embracing mental
health treatments, accepting mymental illness and eventually
getting to where I'm at today.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Once you got out, what was your focus?
To get you back on track, asteady path from what you were
to what you became today.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Due to the incidents that had happened between my
father and I that I was arrested.
For my first week in jail I wasin like a severe state of
psychosis.
I was in solitary confinementand I'd experienced just this
horrific situation in which,when I did come back and realize
(04:18):
what had happened, I wasn'tsure I was ever going to get out
.
I had two felonies, potentialfelonies, and fortunately, due
to a lot of certaincircumstances, the court
recognized what had happened wasclearly a result of a severe
mental illness, and I'd beenhospitalized twice before this
too.
So there was a little bit ofhistory and past to that in
(04:39):
which I was able to get out ofjail after 30 days.
I had mandatory treatments.
I was on probation for a year.
It was a conditional discharge,so it wasn't just I'm getting
out, that's it.
There were certain things thatI had to do to maintain my
freedom, or everything couldcome back, and one felony was
dropped.
The other felony was reduceddown to a misdemeanor.
I did get that on my record.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So during that process it took you about a year
to get fully on track Werethere any down days?
Did you ever have moments whereyou thought what am I doing, or
is this even working?
What was your mindset like asyou progressed from point A to
point B, to where you are now?
Speaker 2 (05:21):
How I like to frame that part of my experience is
really through what's known asthe four dimensions of recovery,
which a lot of mental healthorganizations talk about.
The four dimensions of recovery, which are purpose, home,
health and community.
So, like when I got out of jail, my mom opened up her home.
My parents were separated.
They had been separated all mylife and, due to the incident
(05:43):
with my dad, he wasn't willingto let me live with him for
valid reasons.
It took a lot of us to buildour trust together, but my mom
opened the doors.
She gave me a place of home, aplace of comfort, a place where
I could really just focus onmanaging my treatment.
So I lived with my mom.
I picked up a job at BurgerKing, so I gained some
(06:03):
independence.
Fortunately, I was in a spotwhere I could walk to work.
I didn't have a car.
I was able to walk to mytreatment.
I was seeing a psychiatrist ora nurse practitioner, I was
seeing group therapy, I wasseeing substance misuse therapy
and I was seeing a mental healthcounselor like four things
every week.
Right, and that's how dedicatedmy rehabilitation was to the
health dimension.
(06:23):
A lot of that I had to do aspart of my conditional discharge
.
In that space I was veryvulnerable and I was very active
in wanting to know how tomanage my mental health and my
diagnosis a lot better than Iwas before.
So health, home was taken careof.
The community aspect I stillhad a lot of friends.
I was in a community of supporttoo.
(06:45):
That really, I think, supportedme in getting through that
process.
And then, lastly, purposeBefore I went to jail, I was
going to college, a four-yeardegree at SUNY Geneseo, which is
a small university in upstateNew York.
I was expelled after whathappened when I got arrested.
I was able to get back in afterI got out of jail and there I
was able to finish out my degree.
(07:06):
I had a couple of classes left.
I was able to get my degree anda plan for the future, which
was to pursue my master's degreein social work.
So I had a purpose to my lifethat really helped me go from
jail to grad school within ayear or so, something like that.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
That's impressive.
You should really be proud ofyour accomplishments.
You got through and managed toaccomplish what you started out
to do.
Now, after navigating all ofthat, what inspired you to
pursue social work and dedicateyourself to helping others?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
It was a very tough time in my life.
There were days because I'dhave to walk a mile to Burger
King to work.
I was also taking medicationand some of the side effects of
the medication included feelingdraggy and slow and like my
creative thinking was gone.
It was really tough.
It was a really tough timebecause there were a lot of
times I doubted myself and evenwhen trying to get pursue a
(08:02):
master's degree in social work,I had a huge stigma over my
experience that I went through.
I'd attacked my dad with aknife and that was in the local
news when the incident happenedand that created barriers for me
, worrying about gettingaccepted in the grad school.
Every grad school asked have youever been expelled from college
?
I had to say yes and then I hadto share my story in a way that
(08:23):
would get them to understand.
There was a lot of doubt and Ilike to think that I was really
privileged to have all thosefour dimensions, and really
strengthen those four dimensionsreally helped me just keep that
forward momentum going.
I will also add that prior toall of this, I was also a big
athlete.
All my life I was a verydedicated distance runner and a
(08:43):
lot of those characteristicsthat I've learned in that sport,
I think, helped me to do thesame in this process, where you
have to do a lot of hard work toget where you want to get and
to be your idea of success withwhatever it is.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, that's true.
Success is basically what youare happy doing and continue to
do.
So what led you to shift yourcareer focus from becoming a
substance use counselor ortherapist in social work and
transitioning to advocacy?
How did your graduate schoolexperience influence this
(09:18):
decision?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, so I initially wanted to get my master's in
social work to become asubstance use counselor or
therapist.
That was what I initially hadthought of.
Substance use counselor or atherapist, that was what I
initially had thought of.
But then in grad school, as Icontinued to learn about mental
health from that clinical pointof view and with social work
they don't just focus on directservice, that degree, they do
(09:42):
branch out to advocacy and themore macro work.
And I realized in my studiesthere that that's just how my
mind went, how my mind thinks.
So that's when I really wantedto be more involved with the
advocacy piece and then it wasall about just finding a
position after grad school thatcould align with that.
And I know that with my story,with my experience, I always
(10:04):
knew that I wanted to bring thatinto the picture, because what
I learned is that stories canreally make an impact.
When people hear these types ofexperiences, it allows them to
relate and understand anotherperson's point of view with it
and I think that helps to fuelmore effective advocacy and more
effective ideas and how thereare certain things that we can
(10:25):
change in our systems, ourculture, to better serve people
who might go through those typeof experiences as well.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Looking back on your journey, now that you're an
advocate, you've experienced allthe ups and downs that come
with it.
Was there a single moment thatstood out, a turning point that
lit the way forward, somethingthat reassured you that things
were falling into place,confirmed you were on the right
(10:53):
path, and then fueled yourambition or ability to create
even more?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
The first time that I wrote about my experience, the
first time that I was vulnerablein that public space, was
actually in my second year ofgrad school.
When I had done that, I wrote ablog post for NAMI National
Alliance of Mental Illness andthat really, I think, based on
people's responses and howpeople would come up to me
(11:21):
afterwards and be vulnerableabout themselves to me that was
like, okay, there's something tothat, there's something to me
being vulnerable in a publicspace that could help others,
and that was a spark.
Once I got in my professionalposition, I got my eight
dimensions of wellness allstructured my financial wellness
.
I'm living comfortably.
(11:41):
I can now open up my experiencein a much more versatile way,
and that's when I startedwriting my memoir and putting my
heart and soul into that so Icould really leap forward with
it.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
That's really good.
I'm glad that you've been ableto do that.
Can you give us the name ofyour book?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yes, it's Mending Reality.
An Advocate's ExistentialJourney with Mental Health.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
When you wrote your book.
I have some friends of minethat are writers.
They've said that once theystart putting those
old-fashioned words to paper, itoften takes over and seems to
write itself.
So my first question is didthat happen to you?
Did you start writing andsuddenly find it just flowing
out?
(12:23):
And when it did start flowing,did you begin looking at it and
tweaking it?
Then what emotions came up asyou read what you had put down,
realizing this is me, this is mylife, this is what it's been.
How did that affect you?
What type of emotions wentthrough your mind at that point?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yes, I will say that as soon as I started putting pen
to paper, I mean, and it flowedPart of that writing experience
was coping for me, theexperience with psychosis, being
in jail, thinking that I was aprophet, thinking that I
discovered the truth of theuniverse.
There was a grandiose nature toit too.
(13:09):
It's such a challengingexperience and even the incident
with my dad attacking him likethat haunted my dreams for many
years after the incident.
So, going through that writingprocess, it really served my own
therapeutic process of justputting it out there and reading
it and it helped to cope withit.
(13:29):
And in many cases it wastriggering.
But again, being vulnerablewith myself, I think, helped me
really understand myself evenbetter, my mental health, my
diagnosis, and there was a lotof challenges since I've written
it, but it was definitely veryhelpful, I think, overall in
just my own mental health.
I mean, I spent five years onthis thing, this book, and I
(13:54):
didn't know if it was going toget published or not for a long
time, and that was a wholedifferent set of challenges that
I've somehow found a way toovercome and get to the position
where it's actually going to bereleased, and I will say that
I'm not terrified.
A lot of people have read thisbook, but not the general public
, so it does get a lot of reads.
I'm not worried or stressedabout how people might react to
it, because the way that I'vewritten it I really think can
(14:15):
impact people significantly andmake them understand that type
of experience a lot further.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
You do a lot of public speaking and you just
mentioned that you feelcomfortable sharing your
experiences with others.
What's it like to tell yourstory to a captive audience?
What goes through your mind asyou speak and then afterwards,
when people come up to you eagerto learn more because your
words have touched them in a waythat could help them move
(14:42):
forward in their own lives?
How does that make you feel?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
That's the most meaningful part of doing my work
with this.
Last year, about a year ago,stood before 200 plus mental
health advocates at an advocacyday up in Albany.
I had 10 minutes to share mystory in a way that captivated
them and inspired them toadvocate right there.
The way I structure my speakingI try to make it gripping and
(15:08):
pull you in.
The first sentence I say iswhen I was 22 years old, facing
a mental health crisis, I triedto kill my dad and I remember
when I say that, the audienceyou see those gasps, you see
those eyes widen, and then it'sa hook that pulls them in.
Then I take it apart, right, andI'm like what could have
prevented this?
And they're seeing me at thestage, they're seeing someone
(15:29):
who's done that in front of themand I think that in itself is
wow.
There's a lot more to thisstory.
There's so much more to thestory.
I did have many students comeup to me after that talk just
thank me for being vulnerableand appreciating me doing that,
because the advocacy day isreally meant to provide a space
for that.
And when eventually, during theday, they go out and they allow
(15:51):
students to grab the mic andshare their own story.
I could hear them sharing theirdifficulties and their
challenges and I do like tothink that by me doing that
created a space for them to dothat themselves, and I think
that just helps to fuel thismomentum around changing how we
approach mental health incircumstances that are very
(16:13):
difficult.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Do you still engage with or advocate for changes in
the legal system?
If you do, how do you approachit?
What personal experiences orperspectives drive your stance
so this can be a better systemfor everyone involved?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
At this point in my career I'm geared more towards
trying to improve our trainingsand our education around mental
health.
As far as specificincarceration systems, I do keep
up to date with what ishappening and I will support
other people's work with that.
When I share that part of mystory about going through the
incarceration system and myexperience with that, I think it
(16:53):
opens up that discussion.
Clearly, jail was not the rightplace for me.
If you hear more about what itwas like to be in solitary
confinement with psychosis, butwhat would be the place for me
in that type of state?
I thought I was in hell.
I was trying to give birth toSatan's child.
I literally physically tried todo that in the middle of a cell
.
There are so many dark,difficult things.
(17:15):
But what place would be bestfor me to recover in a state of
like that?
I don't know.
There's a discussion there.
There's a discussion there.
There's a way to approach thatbetter, and it's a complex
system and there's no one easyanswer.
So I'm always trying to be opento hearing the multiple
perspectives and striving forthe best solution, which I'm not
sure what is, but I think wecan get there.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
So, in the next three to five years, what do you
envision on the horizon for thefuture, whether it's personal
goals, society changes orbroader possibilities?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
My goals over the three to five years is first, I
really just want to get my storyout there which it's already
been out there, but I'm excitedfor my book publication and I'm
really hoping that continue themomentum with that.
Get more speaking engagementsbecause of it.
This summer I'm actually goingto a conference out in Texas.
It's called Empath Consultingand they've created an
(18:04):
alternative to emergency crises,for mental health crises.
So I'm really interested inlearning more about that model
that they've started toimplement in a couple states and
share my perspective there tohelp them fine-tune that type of
model.
And if it works, I would like tojust continue getting in front
of those type of mentalprofessionals, people in the
(18:25):
field, people doing this work sothat a way they could find ways
to better fine-tune whatthey're doing and advocate for
those changes that they need intheir own communities, Because
every community is different,Every state is different.
It's just basically to continuethat momentum and hopefully
just get more opportunities todo this.
Would I love to write anotherbook?
Yes, that will hopefully comedown the line.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Right now it's just get my book out there and start
speaking as much as I can.
When you stand in front ofpeople, do you try to express
yourself in a way that lets themsee what you've been through,
how you've responded to it andwho you are now.
That way, hopefully, you canshorten their journey by showing
them that, no matter whatthey're experiencing, there's
always hope that things canchange for them in their future.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, when I share my experience, I go back to
childhood, because I go step bystep.
I'm not diving into everythingin my life, but I'm touching on
these key points, from childhoodto college, to when I first
started facing mental illness,when my signs and symptoms got
worse, when I got interventionin hospital and then when I
(19:35):
faced a crisis and the wholerecovery portion.
And I've done that because inthis framework of mental health
field and how we can betterapproach mental health, it is
just so complex.
So when I talk about mychildhood, I talk about some
adverse childhood experiences,aces something that has a lot of
research behind it that showsthat it's a risk factor for
future mental health challengesand so forth.
(19:57):
So I'm using my expertise thatI've learned in mental health
advocacy in my story throughoutthe time, so that way it's not
just oh, this was just myexperience, but there is
research and knowledge behindall of this that I use to show
how there were so manyopportunities prior to that
incident in which I could havegotten the help, or my help
(20:18):
could have been more effectiveto where the incident could have
been prevented, and it did nothave to get to that crisis point
for me to finally accept mymental illness and I hope that
when people hear that they'relike, they're thinking like oh,
I could do something, now if I'mstruggling, I could help
someone else who I know isstruggling, so that way helping
them could get more effective.
(20:38):
So they're never at thatpotential crisis point or even
like getting to a point wherethey're just really struggling
and no one is willing to help.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah, I think that's a great message to put out there
for everyone.
I've spoken with several peoplewho've faced challenges lasting
anywhere from a year to 10years.
While the duration varies foreveryone, a common thread stands
out there's hope On the otherside of that journey.
(21:09):
You can address your struggles,refine your approach, create a
plan to improve things, toimprove things.
Each person I talked to, evenwhen they were at their lowest,
when others looked at them andthought they were finished,
incapable of bouncing back, theyrefused to give up.
They pushed through, survivedand now they're thriving.
So the real question is how dowe overcome the stigma?
(21:33):
How do we help people see that,yes, mental health carries a
certain stigma, but it doesn'thave to be purely negative?
How do we highlight thepositive, that once people
navigate their challenges, theycan emerge stronger and show the
world what they've overcome?
Speaker 2 (21:51):
I always say that recovery is not just possible
but probable in the rightcircumstances.
We as family, as friends, ascoworkers, as parents, as just
people in the community, we havethat opportunity and space to
help create those circumstancesin which people are more likely
(22:12):
to get the help they need.
And that, to me, speaks to thatgood side of this conversation
and this hopeful aspect to it,because, yes, we can dive into
specific policies that mightchange certain aspects in the
systems that would help improve,but that's one piece of this in
(22:33):
our communities and ourinterpersonal relationships and
even ourselves can do to startmaking that change within and be
in better positions where, ifwe're ever in a position facing
a mental health challenge oreven experiencing mental illness
, we're better positioned tomanage it and to change it and
to support it.
So, like I know a big componentfor me and I'm interested in
(22:55):
people you've also talked tolike there's a big
responsibility on my own Eversince I'd gotten my diagnosis
and went through that experiencelike I have a responsibility to
manage that I do and if I everstruggle with it, I go to my
family, I go to my dad, I go tomy girlfriend, I talk to people
because I know that I can relyon them or have them be there to
support me through it if I'mstruggling to manage it myself.
(23:18):
Getting to that point ofacceptance for the individual is
a very challenging thing, and Iwouldn't want anyone to go
through such a severe crisis tofinally have that awareness of
it, but rather creatingcompletely different
circumstances long before thatever happened, so that a way,
they're more likely to accept itinitially.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Okay, that's a good point.
We've covered a lot of goodthings here.
What would you like thelisteners to know that you think
is very important about mentalhealth and the challenges that
they?
Speaker 2 (23:51):
face.
I think one of the mostimportant things to tell people
about this is there's so much,but I think conversations around
mental health have increasedsignificantly, especially since
COVID had happened, and there'sbeen so many positives with that
, and I think the conversationshave just been amazing and I
(24:13):
think this is an important piece.
There needs to be recognitionof mental illness is a bit
different than a mental healthchallenge when you start to.
There needs to be recognitionof mental illness is a bit
different than a mental healthchallenge when you start to face
certain signs and symptoms ofmental illness, and it does take
a different approach thanhaving a fight with someone or
through a job loss or somethinglike that.
There are certain aspects ofmental illness that not everyone
faces, but a lot of people do,just based on certain
(24:34):
predispositions or other factors.
So I think there still is a lotof stigma with certain mental
illness, particularly withschizophrenia, psychosis and so
forth.
So, as the greater public ishaving a conversation about
mental health, I just want tomake sure that we're also
talking about these types ofdiagnoses and these types of
signs and symptoms that lookdifferent for every person, but
also that we need to talk aboutthat as well, and we need to be
(24:57):
open about that too, becauseanyone can face a mental illness
.
One in five people do.
So we just kind of make surewe're taking care of those who
are most vulnerable and strugglepotentially the most.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
I think that's a great statement.
This just highlights the needfor more understanding, since
everyone has different issuesand deals with them in their own
way.
Just because one person handlesa crisis a certain way doesn't
mean everyone else will be thesame in the way they handle
their crisis.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, and I'm very forward with the incident that I
went to or went through tominimize like attacking my dad
with a knife, believing thedevil was inside him, because at
face value, people read thatand they're like, oh my God,
it's so hard to fathom and it'sso stigmatized.
I faced significant shame eversince that happened, gone
(25:52):
through processes of managingthat and my work has reduced
that.
But still to bring somethinglike that to the table I think
helps to be like okay, likemaking people have empathy for
me right With that situation.
I think helps other people tohave empathy for anyone who goes
through something such as thatand encourages us to do more so
(26:12):
that, away again, people don'tget to that crisis point.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
You just mentioned something that I think is
important to talk about.
Some people don't get to thatcrisis point.
You just mentioned somethingthat I think is important to
talk about.
Some people don't have thetouch of empathy and, since they
haven't walked your path, theydon't fully get it.
Without meaning to, they saythings that sting, not seeing
the weight of their words.
You've been through it, you'velived it and now you're moving
(26:37):
forward.
You've changed, evolved.
You're not the same person youwere.
How do you deal with those who,in their ignorance, can't see
the depth of what you?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
faced Initially.
The first time that I feltsignificant shame due to my
situation was after I'd gottenout of jail and I went on the
Facebook and I looked at thecomments on the news articles
about me my mugshot plasteredeverywhere words saying son
bites his father's ear off.
The comments they were makingjokes.
(27:10):
They were making jokes aboutMike Tyson.
They were just brutal.
I remember reading those and Iremember I felt the shame but
also at the same time I was like, okay, these people, I don't
know these people, they'restrangers to me, they don't know
anything about what hadhappened and I just knew that
and I was like I so I wasn'tlike significantly bothered
(27:30):
because I was like I'm stillhere and I'm gonna prove them
wrong.
And that probably helped fuelmy whole path to in some aspect
is that I wanted to show themand I'm going to prove them
wrong.
And that probably helped fuelmy whole path to in some aspect
is that I wanted to show themand I wanted to tell them like,
okay, there's so much more tothis and it wasn't just the
public who had also shamed me.
I heard rumors from people incollege, my friends.
(27:51):
So there's always been a levelof uncertainty with people's
comfortableness with me andwillingness to do that.
But ever since I've gotten tothe point where I am and I'm
trying to be more active onsocial media and everything that
I've done so far, like I cansee the cognitive shift in
people that I've interacted withthroughout the years that I
could tell that they've builtempathy for me and that level of
(28:13):
empathy has increased becauseI've been able to show my
perspective, reveal it and I'vebeen very active with it, which
not everyone does, and that'sokay.
But hopefully, if they can haveempathy for my incident, maybe
when they see something in thenews about another incident or
something else that happens andthey don't know enough about it,
(28:35):
maybe they'll have more empathyfor that too.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
That's a great point.
Well, this has been really goodgreat information, great
conversation.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to come on.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Thank you for having me, tony.
I really appreciate thisconversation.
It's been my pleasure.
Thanks again, thanks for takingthe time out of your busy
schedule to listen to our showtoday.
We hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as we enjoyed bringing it
to you.
If you know anyone that wouldlike to tell us their story,
(29:13):
send them to TonyMantorcomContact then they can give us
their information so one daythey may be a guest on our show.
One more thing we ask telleveryone everywhere about why
Not Me, the world, theconversations we're having and
(29:34):
the inspiration our guests giveto everyone everywhere that you
are not alone in this world.
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