Dennis Debbaudt shares his 30-year journey addressing autism-related police interactions and developing training programs for law enforcement nationwide.
His pioneering work bridges the gap between public safety professionals and the autistic community through educational materials, videos, and hands-on training that helps prevent tragic misunderstandings.
• Former detective agency owner whose autistic son's diagnosis in the 1980s revealed a complete lack of resources on autism-police interactions
• Created the first-ever training materials addressing autism for law enforcement in the early 1990s
• Highlights the staggering increase in autism prevalence from 2-5 in 10,000 people to today's 1 in 36
• Emphasizes that autistic behaviors can be misinterpreted as drug intoxication or non-compliance
• Teaches officers to recognize "street signs" like autism awareness stickers and specialized terminology
• Promotes techniques including increased personal space, extra processing time, and varied communication approaches
• Focuses on voluntary disclosure strategies and technology tools that can alert first responders
• Trains others to continue his work ensuring that these critical interactions become safer for everyone
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to why Not Me ?
The World Podcast, hosted byTony Mantor, broadcasting from
Music City, usa, nashville,tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell ustheir stories.
Some will make you laugh, somewill make you cry.
Their stories Some will makeyou laugh, some will make you
(00:30):
cry.
Real life people who willinspire and show that you are
not alone in this world.
Hopefully, you gain moreawareness, acceptance and a
better understanding for autismaround the world.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantour.
(00:52):
Welcome to why Not Me?
The World Humanity OverHandcuffs the Silent Crisis
special event.
Joining us today is DennisDeBott.
Dennis has been a pioneer inaddressing autism-related police
issues since the early 1990s,authoring over 40 books, reports
and training videos on thesubject.
He has trained with NYPD'semergency services, consulted on
(01:16):
the Chicago Police Department'sautism training and appeared in
major outlets like the New YorkTimes, the Associated Press,
among others.
We're excited to have him sharehis insights with us.
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, happy to and thank you for this wonderful
project that you're on here.
It will make a difference.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, thanks, I appreciate your kind words.
Can you give us a littleinsight on your journey to doing
what you're doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
No, I owned a detective agency in Detroit,
Michigan, starting in 1981.
When we moved down here toSouth Florida, I closed that
license down and did it downhere till 2013.
So it was a 37-year career as abig city detective agency owner
(02:07):
and I did focus on people andthings that needed to be found.
So that put me in contact withthe FBI, state police and local
police all around the countryand in other countries too, when
necessary.
It was that background, andthen I also had a brief
(02:29):
flirtation with freelancereporting, so my work was seen
in the Detroit News and MonthlyDetroit Magazine and then in
documentaries too out of the UKand Canada.
Their son was born in 1983.
Within a couple of years wewere having that lived
(02:51):
experience, kind of like whatyou had a year ago.
You didn't know anything aboutit and neither did we.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
So this ultimately led you to start researching to
find more out about it, correct?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
What I did discover as a researcher and an
investigator, once I had enoughlived experience to try to find
some solutions, was that thispopulation and their
interactions with the policing,public safety and criminal
justice system had not beenreported on ever.
(03:24):
And when you write something orproduce something, it's not
your judgment.
Ultimately, whether or notsomebody reads it or hears it,
it'll be the consumer, and sowhen I did write my first report
, I got a lot of positivefeedback on that in 1993.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
So, once you started digging, what path did that lead
you on to start helping theautistic world?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Basically started with the autism spectrum
disorder, the lack ofinformation that I needed in the
late 80s, early 90s, and thenrealizing that there isn't any
of this out here.
If you're interested, you'regoing to have to dig in a bit,
which I did do.
So it's autism-focused.
(04:13):
I've learned that prior to myefforts, there were the crisis
intervention team models priorto that, back in the late 60s,
and then information andtraining materials, video that
date back to the late 50sInteractions that people with
conditions of the brain orneurological disorders mental
(04:36):
illness, if you will, they werehaving a higher rate of contact
with added risk for lawenforcement, probably since law
enforcement's been around.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
What kind of understanding did that help you
with?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Those contacts were troublesome.
At that point in time, a newgroup of people grew in front of
our eyes, and that new groupwas autism.
Even when our son was diagnosed, the rate of autism was thought
to be two to five in every10,000 people.
By the time we got his officialdiagnosis it had gone down, if
(05:14):
you will, to 1 in 1250.
The end of the 1990s it was nowwell under 500, and currently
today it's 1 in 36.
What the contacts theseinteractions consisted of?
Even back in the 90s, with myearly research part of the
(05:36):
Internet, those contactscontinue to happen.
The difference now between nowand then is there are thousands
more, tens of thousands of moreautistic people out here that
we've identified.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Now you've written some books and different things
for police.
What led you to get involvedwith helping the police and the
first responders get a betterunderstanding about autism and
how it affects the kids and thepeople that they would come in
contact with?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, I was reporting what I found as a dad, as
someone from a related area ofwork, I was interacting with the
police, so operational policingwas not foreign to me and it
was troubling when I could findnothing out here.
So when I wrote my first reportand then the second one, it got
a lot of attention, a lot ofpositive feedback, and we were
(06:32):
living in Detroit at that time.
The Detroit Police Departmentheard me speak on it at a mixed
day-long information exchangewith folks with Alzheimer's,
people with mental illness, andI was covering the autism issue.
It was something fresh and newthere and DPD heard what I had
(06:53):
to say, found it useful andasked me to come into their
training academy.
That was 1995, so we're stilldoing it.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You've also worked with a lot of well-known police
precincts across the country aswell, correct?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
The FBI accepted an offer for myself and a PhD from
a curriculum project in Marylandin the late 90s.
They accepted our proposal topublish in the FBI law
enforcement bulletin and thatjust opened a lot of doors at
the time.
But yeah, nypd, chicago PD, nowthe Department of Homeland
(07:36):
Security it hadn't been createdback in those early days but
many other large and smallagencies here in Canada, many
other large and small agencieshere in Canada.
It's taken me to the East,southeast and the UK.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Now you've done several books, but you've also
done some films and videos tohelp them as well.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, and the belief here is, if we want to help law
enforcement discover that personthey may be interacting with
might have autism, the morepeople with autism that they get
to view, see and meet whetherit's on video or live the better
their outcome will be.
It's great to have talkingheads, such as myself, with live
variants, but nothing takesplace of that kind of evidence,
(08:27):
and it's memorable.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Do you do one-on-one in a police department where you
have a group of police that arethere and you talk with them
about someone they may come uponthat might be having a drug
problem or they might beautistic but merely look like
they're having a drug problem?
Have you had those kind ofconversations with them in some
(08:52):
of your presentations?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, I would say, Tony, that every session that I
do includes that.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, I think that's a good thing.
I spoke with a presenter theother day and he told me of an
officer that was highly trainedin drug enforcement came across.
This person had all thecharacteristics that he was high
on drugs.
He did everything by the book.
Unfortunately, this person wasautistic.
(09:22):
Now he was unaware and he wasin the process of actually
arresting this person.
Thankfully, the mother wasclose by, came over, was
level-headed, told the officerabout the autism that her son
had.
Everything turned out all right.
In any other situation, thiscould have gone the opposite way
(09:43):
.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, nobody, even the greatest autism experts in
the field of diagnosis, can do afield diagnosis and say with
absolute accuracy and certaintythat this person's autistic.
To bring up the potential thatthey might be autistic is where
the training goes and showingsome of the lived experiences
(10:07):
where things could have turnedout better and where training
can address that.
So certainly the slang, thejargon and the terminology that
emanates out of the autismcommunity is the low-hanging
fruit here.
So if you hear these key words,stimming and many others, the
(10:27):
best place you first want tohear them would be in the
training room.
There's still no guarantee thatthis person is autistic, but
there are street signs that Ifirst became aware of in the
late 90s.
So traffic signs inneighborhoods, bumper stickers,
hats, license plates.
Half of the states, over halfof the states in America, have
(10:50):
an opportunity for anyone topurchase a specialty license
plate.
It features autism awarenessand the word autism, I might add
, and the word autism, I mightadd.
So all of this is part of basicscene assessment for risk that
(11:11):
are specific to.
Again, low hanging fruit is whenyou see these images.
It gives you a green light tostart talking about autism.
There are also folks who choosenot to disclose.
So the word and the concept ofdisclosure is probably the law
enforcement's biggest enemy here.
They don't know somebody isautistic or has mental health
(11:32):
conditions or otherwise.
It's kind of hard to shift yourgears when some of the
behaviors and characteristicsthat you're experiencing in the
moment do ape people who aregetting ready to commit a crime
or who just have committed acrime.
So disclosure becomes the enemy, but it's also your best friend
(11:54):
when you have it.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
In your travels?
Have you come across policeduring your training that
they're listening to you talkabout autism and then, after
your class is done, they come upto you and they have more to
thank you about other than justthe training, because they have
autistic children as well.
(12:16):
So you not only help theirfellow officers, but you help
them and their children as well.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Absolutely.
The numbers were much smallerin the 90s and the early part of
the 21st century and I go outof my way as a presenter trainer
to ask that, those questions toelicit who's in the audience,
that I do that in minute one ofthe training.
That's the first thing I do.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, that's true.
What are you finding as far astheir response?
For the longest time, autismhad a stigma attached to it.
They didn't know much about it,so they didn't believe it
because they didn't know it.
Now they have someone likeyourself with lived experience
(13:03):
that's worked with other policeprecincts around the country.
Now they understand that it isreal.
So what's the response thatyou've been getting from them?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
You mean family members who have an autistic
child, or anybody.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Anyone that you've been training or otherwise, that
just didn't realize what autismis one that you've been
training or otherwise, that justdidn't realize what autism is.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
The common feedback and this dates back to the
mid-90s Detroit Police Academyis hey, buddy, I really
appreciate the information youhad.
If I'd have only known, becauseI have met folks like that
throughout my career.
I just didn't know it at thetime.
So that kind of feedback thatit made sense and it connected
troubling contacts where theythrown for the loop here.
(13:50):
And we can also add in thatautistic people, in spite of
everything that we may be trying, can be aggressive to family
members or people that theydon't know, strangers.
And if strangers are in uniform, you know there's the
consideration of some use offorce.
So that is also addressed.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, that's something that we hope never
happens, but unfortunately it isa very real thing that can
happen.
So have you had trainingsituations where you've gone
through your program, officershave listened, then they walk
away not fully understandingeverything, because there's a
lot to understand.
(14:34):
Then at a later date you mayhear from them, or hear from
their precinct, that what youtrained them actually worked,
and the response from it wasjust they were really glad that
they had taken your class onautism.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, I don't have the opportunity to go back and
hear these stories when theyhappen.
The folks that say I've hadthese contacts that you're
disgruntling and after they geta half day or a longer session
or even a shorter session,they're going to see and hear
from a variety of differentpeople under different
(15:12):
circumstances that will cue themin.
So if that's happening andwe're hearing about it during
the session, what you'resuggesting, Tony, absolutely is
happening.
Out here.
There are more and more folkswho are in careers in law
enforcement, in public safety,in criminal justice professions
(15:34):
who are carrying forth thetraining.
They are now conducting thetraining, which is a good thing,
are now conducting the training, which is a good thing,
Involving autistic people inthese trainings live, as long as
they're volunteering to do it.
To hear their perspective livein person is extremely important
.
There are a variety of ways toget the examples of these images
(15:58):
that they may see and hear, andthey need to do that under the
obligation to make sure thatit's safe.
To try these techniques ofinvesting extra time, giving
people more personal space,using varied forms of
communication, and then repeatthis over and over, you can get
(16:21):
somebody who may be in anaggressive state or in a
meltdown.
Give them the time to getthrough it If they're not
harming themselves or anybodyelse.
It's time and there, after thetraining sessions, there are
other policy decisions forpolicing and public safety and
criminal justice system policingand public safety and criminal
(16:44):
justice system.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
What topics are typically discussed after your
classes to improve theinteractions between the autism
community and the firstresponders?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
How can we connect up with this community that's
having a higher rate of contact?
For autism and developmentaldisabilities it's still at about
seven times higher contact ratethan a typical person.
How can we connect with theseorganizations and individuals so
we can talk about these issuesin a good environment where
(17:14):
there's an exchange ofinformation?
And there are really goodexamples around the country and
in other countries where lawenforcement may be the ones
reaching out their hands.
There may be advocates reachingout their hands to them.
The more we spend, the more timethat is spent talking about
(17:36):
things that might have gonewrong, talking about
expectations that are notrealistic for the police, about
the police from parents, frompolice.
The place to talk about that isthrough these opportunities to
share information.
And here's a group that ishaving a higher rate of contact.
(17:57):
You know it's not the La CosaNostra.
The LCN is not going to want tomeet with the police, but in
most cases the advocates do.
For folks with disabilities,the training is a policy
decision to help get some skillsets developed, some of the when
and how and why you might needto use them.
(18:18):
But another community-orientedcommand-level decision would be
to do outreach to thesecommunities and not allow it to
be a one-off.
A one-off is cool for themoment.
You know it's like having agood meal.
You know it wears off, and thenif you're eating bad meals
after that, all you can do isthink about the good one.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Absolutely.
Now how do people contact you?
So if they want to get some ofyour videos or your written
material, they can order it orfind it.
How do they find you?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
through email, at ddpi, at flashnet, the website
you can find some of thosematerials at and links to it, is
autismriskmanagement all onelong word, com.
(19:14):
Or they can contact you, tony,and you know how to get a hold
of me.
You found me.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Exactly, yeah, exactly Now.
Is this something that you'regoing to continue to do?
Is this an ongoing thing?
What do you see over the nextfew years for your company and
what you're trying to do withautism?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
years and they'll live to experience closer to 40.
I am training other people whoare interested and have a strong
interest and skill set level togo out and conduct these
training sessions in theircommunities, maybe to give
(19:53):
something back if they're a PhDor they're in ABA or social work
or they're educators, or itcould be officers who are
retired or family members couldbe a brother, sister and cousin,
or it can be and it is agenciesand individuals who see the
(20:13):
need for this and want to goback to someone who has been
successfully doing this for 30years.
I do have lesson plans andmaterial that can help someone
get going in this area.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, this isn't something you take a pill for
and it's gone.
It's a lifelong thing.
People have to figure out howto handle it and work through it
so they can do what they wantto with their life in society.
This way, they get to live afulfilled life without,
hopefully, ever having an issuewith the legal system.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Right, it will be ongoing.
There are other populations themore that we get together, and
then there are other factorsthat get in the way, how
politics could get in the way ofit, funding issues, but
basically this is frontlinecontacts that are going to take
place, whether it's addressed inthe training room or not.
(21:09):
Help the law enforcement beprepared as they possibly can.
Nothing can be perfect.
We can't complain about thingsthat are imperfect, because life
is not perfect.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, that's for sure .
I wish it was.
Now, what would you like totell the listeners that you
think is very important, thatthey need to hear about what
you're trying to put across?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, it's about everyone's safety first.
It's about developing realisticexpectations of what's going to
happen and how you can becomeinvolved in being an agent of
change.
That can be simply telling yourstory, your lived experiences.
Talk about it, write about it,let people know.
(21:54):
I know disclosure is an issuethat others and many others and
you have to address it as itgoes.
It's not like well, I willalways disclose.
No, you got to address it as itgoes.
It's not like well, I willalways disclose no.
You got to make decisions.
I'd disclose to the guy I'mbuying a hamburger from.
No, maybe not, but there mightbe a time and place where that
might be useful.
(22:15):
So, having that skill set andhaving the information available
in the 21st century, here in2025, there is great technology
for our information that'simportant about an individual
and key it up to whereverthey're at at the time to alert
(22:36):
law enforcement that here'ssomebody that needs a different
approach and, in fact, createthat personal plan and have it
placed voluntarily, mind you, inthe emergency call center or
911.
There are places for disclosurethat we need to explore further
(22:56):
and I think in the future,technology is going to catch up
to this quicker than I expected,there is no perfect answer.
The more people thinking aboutit, the better off we'll all be.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Absolutely Well.
This has been great, Greatinformation, great stories.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to come on.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
No problem.
Happy to Tony and thank you fordoing this important work.
You're doing what we'resuggesting out here right now.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Well, it's a work in progress for all of us.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking the time outof your busy schedule to listen
to our show today.
We hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as we enjoyed bringing it
to you.
If you know anyone that wouldlike to tell us their story,
(23:47):
send them to TonyMantorcomcontact then they can give us
their information so one daythey may be a guest on our show.
One more thing we ask telleveryone everywhere about why
Not Me, the world, theconversations we're having and
(24:07):
the inspiration our guests giveto everyone everywhere that you
are not alone in this world.
Welcome to why Not Me ?
The World Podcast, hosted byTony Mantor, broadcasting from
Music City, usa, nashville,tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell ustheir stories.
Some will make you laugh, somewill make you cry.
Their stories Some will makeyou laugh, some will make you
(00:30):
cry.
Real life people who willinspire and show that you are
not alone in this world.
Hopefully, you gain moreawareness, acceptance and a
better understanding for autismaround the world.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantour.
(00:52):
Welcome to why Not Me?
The World Humanity OverHandcuffs the Silent Crisis
special event.
Joining us today is DennisDeBott.
Dennis has been a pioneer inaddressing autism-related police
issues since the early 1990s,authoring over 40 books, reports
and training videos on thesubject.
He has trained with NYPD'semergency services, consulted on
(01:16):
the Chicago Police Department'sautism training and appeared in
major outlets like the New YorkTimes, the Associated Press,
among others.
We're excited to have him sharehis insights with us.
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well, happy to and thank you for this wonderful
project that you're on here.
It will make a difference.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, thanks, I appreciate your kind words.
Can you give us a littleinsight on your journey to doing
what you're doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
No, I owned a detective agency in Detroit,
Michigan, starting in 1981.
When we moved down here toSouth Florida, I closed that
license down and did it downhere till 2013.
So it was a 37-year career as abig city detective agency owner
(02:07):
and I did focus on people andthings that needed to be found.
So that put me in contact withthe FBI, state police and local
police all around the countryand in other countries too, when
necessary.
It was that background, andthen I also had a brief
(02:29):
flirtation with freelancereporting, so my work was seen
in the Detroit News and MonthlyDetroit Magazine and then in
documentaries too out of the UKand Canada.
Their son was born in 1983.
Within a couple of years wewere having that lived
(02:51):
experience, kind of like whatyou had a year ago.
You didn't know anything aboutit and neither did we.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
So this ultimately led you to start researching to
find more out about it, correct?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
What I did discover as a researcher and an
investigator, once I had enoughlived experience to try to find
some solutions, was that thispopulation and their
interactions with the policing,public safety and criminal
justice system had not beenreported on ever.
(03:24):
And when you write something orproduce something, it's not
your judgment.
Ultimately, whether or notsomebody reads it or hears it,
it'll be the consumer, and sowhen I did write my first report
, I got a lot of positivefeedback on that in 1993.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
So, once you started digging, what path did that lead
you on to start helping theautistic world?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Basically started with the autism spectrum
disorder, the lack ofinformation that I needed in the
late 80s, early 90s, and thenrealizing that there isn't any
of this out here.
If you're interested, you'regoing to have to dig in a bit,
which I did do.
So it's autism-focused.
(04:13):
I've learned that prior to myefforts, there were the crisis
intervention team models priorto that, back in the late 60s,
and then information andtraining materials, video that
date back to the late 50sInteractions that people with
conditions of the brain orneurological disorders mental
(04:36):
illness, if you will, they werehaving a higher rate of contact
with added risk for lawenforcement, probably since law
enforcement's been around.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
What kind of understanding did that help you
with?
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Those contacts were troublesome.
At that point in time, a newgroup of people grew in front of
our eyes, and that new groupwas autism.
Even when our son was diagnosed, the rate of autism was thought
to be two to five in every10,000 people.
By the time we got his officialdiagnosis it had gone down, if
(05:14):
you will, to 1 in 1250.
The end of the 1990s it was nowwell under 500, and currently
today it's 1 in 36.
What the contacts theseinteractions consisted of?
Even back in the 90s, with myearly research part of the
(05:36):
Internet, those contactscontinue to happen.
The difference now between nowand then is there are thousands
more, tens of thousands of moreautistic people out here that
we've identified.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Now you've written some books and different things
for police.
What led you to get involvedwith helping the police and the
first responders get a betterunderstanding about autism and
how it affects the kids and thepeople that they would come in
contact with?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, I was reporting what I found as a dad, as
someone from a related area ofwork, I was interacting with the
police, so operational policingwas not foreign to me and it
was troubling when I could findnothing out here.
So when I wrote my first reportand then the second one, it got
a lot of attention, a lot ofpositive feedback, and we were
(06:32):
living in Detroit at that time.
The Detroit Police Departmentheard me speak on it at a mixed
day-long information exchangewith folks with Alzheimer's,
people with mental illness, andI was covering the autism issue.
It was something fresh and newthere and DPD heard what I had
(06:53):
to say, found it useful andasked me to come into their
training academy.
That was 1995, so we're stilldoing it.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
You've also worked with a lot of well-known police
precincts across the country aswell, correct?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
The FBI accepted an offer for myself and a PhD from
a curriculum project in Marylandin the late 90s.
They accepted our proposal topublish in the FBI law
enforcement bulletin and thatjust opened a lot of doors at
the time.
But yeah, nypd, chicago PD, nowthe Department of Homeland
(07:36):
Security it hadn't been createdback in those early days but
many other large and smallagencies here in Canada, many
other large and small agencieshere in Canada.
It's taken me to the East,southeast and the UK.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Now you've done several books, but you've also
done some films and videos tohelp them as well.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, and the belief here is, if we want to help law
enforcement discover that personthey may be interacting with
might have autism, the morepeople with autism that they get
to view, see and meet whetherit's on video or live the better
their outcome will be.
It's great to have talkingheads, such as myself, with live
variants, but nothing takesplace of that kind of evidence,
(08:27):
and it's memorable.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Do you do one-on-one in a police department where you
have a group of police that arethere and you talk with them
about someone they may come uponthat might be having a drug
problem or they might beautistic but merely look like
they're having a drug problem?
Have you had those kind ofconversations with them in some
(08:52):
of your presentations?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, I would say, Tony, that every session that I
do includes that.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, I think that's a good thing.
I spoke with a presenter theother day and he told me of an
officer that was highly trainedin drug enforcement came across.
This person had all thecharacteristics that he was high
on drugs.
He did everything by the book.
Unfortunately, this person wasautistic.
(09:22):
Now he was unaware and he wasin the process of actually
arresting this person.
Thankfully, the mother wasclose by, came over, was
level-headed, told the officerabout the autism that her son
had.
Everything turned out all right.
In any other situation, thiscould have gone the opposite way
(09:43):
.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, nobody, even the greatest autism experts in
the field of diagnosis, can do afield diagnosis and say with
absolute accuracy and certaintythat this person's autistic.
To bring up the potential thatthey might be autistic is where
the training goes and showingsome of the lived experiences
(10:07):
where things could have turnedout better and where training
can address that.
So certainly the slang, thejargon and the terminology that
emanates out of the autismcommunity is the low-hanging
fruit here.
So if you hear these key words,stimming and many others, the
(10:27):
best place you first want tohear them would be in the
training room.
There's still no guarantee thatthis person is autistic, but
there are street signs that Ifirst became aware of in the
late 90s.
So traffic signs inneighborhoods, bumper stickers,
hats, license plates.
Half of the states, over halfof the states in America, have
(10:50):
an opportunity for anyone topurchase a specialty license
plate.
It features autism awarenessand the word autism, I might add
, and the word autism, I mightadd.
So all of this is part of basicscene assessment for risk that
(11:11):
are specific to.
Again, low hanging fruit is whenyou see these images.
It gives you a green light tostart talking about autism.
There are also folks who choosenot to disclose.
So the word and the concept ofdisclosure is probably the law
enforcement's biggest enemy here.
They don't know somebody isautistic or has mental health
(11:32):
conditions or otherwise.
It's kind of hard to shift yourgears when some of the
behaviors and characteristicsthat you're experiencing in the
moment do ape people who aregetting ready to commit a crime
or who just have committed acrime.
So disclosure becomes the enemy, but it's also your best friend
(11:54):
when you have it.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
In your travels?
Have you come across policeduring your training that
they're listening to you talkabout autism and then, after
your class is done, they come upto you and they have more to
thank you about other than justthe training, because they have
autistic children as well.
(12:16):
So you not only help theirfellow officers, but you help
them and their children as well.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Absolutely.
The numbers were much smallerin the 90s and the early part of
the 21st century and I go outof my way as a presenter trainer
to ask that, those questions toelicit who's in the audience,
that I do that in minute one ofthe training.
That's the first thing I do.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, that's true.
What are you finding as far astheir response?
For the longest time, autismhad a stigma attached to it.
They didn't know much about it,so they didn't believe it
because they didn't know it.
Now they have someone likeyourself with lived experience
(13:03):
that's worked with other policeprecincts around the country.
Now they understand that it isreal.
So what's the response thatyou've been getting from them?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
You mean family members who have an autistic
child, or anybody.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Anyone that you've been training or otherwise, that
just didn't realize what autismis one that you've been
training or otherwise, that justdidn't realize what autism is.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
The common feedback and this dates back to the
mid-90s Detroit Police Academyis hey, buddy, I really
appreciate the information youhad.
If I'd have only known, becauseI have met folks like that
throughout my career.
I just didn't know it at thetime.
So that kind of feedback thatit made sense and it connected
troubling contacts where theythrown for the loop here.
(13:50):
And we can also add in thatautistic people, in spite of
everything that we may be trying, can be aggressive to family
members or people that theydon't know, strangers.
And if strangers are in uniform, you know there's the
consideration of some use offorce.
So that is also addressed.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yeah, that's something that we hope never
happens, but unfortunately it isa very real thing that can
happen.
So have you had trainingsituations where you've gone
through your program, officershave listened, then they walk
away not fully understandingeverything, because there's a
lot to understand.
(14:34):
Then at a later date you mayhear from them, or hear from
their precinct, that what youtrained them actually worked,
and the response from it wasjust they were really glad that
they had taken your class onautism.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, I don't have the opportunity to go back and
hear these stories when theyhappen.
The folks that say I've hadthese contacts that you're
disgruntling and after they geta half day or a longer session
or even a shorter session,they're going to see and hear
from a variety of differentpeople under different
(15:12):
circumstances that will cue themin.
So if that's happening andwe're hearing about it during
the session, what you'resuggesting, Tony, absolutely is
happening.
Out here.
There are more and more folkswho are in careers in law
enforcement, in public safety,in criminal justice professions
(15:34):
who are carrying forth thetraining.
They are now conducting thetraining, which is a good thing,
are now conducting the training, which is a good thing,
Involving autistic people inthese trainings live, as long as
they're volunteering to do it.
To hear their perspective livein person is extremely important
.
There are a variety of ways toget the examples of these images
(15:58):
that they may see and hear, andthey need to do that under the
obligation to make sure thatit's safe.
To try these techniques ofinvesting extra time, giving
people more personal space,using varied forms of
communication, and then repeatthis over and over, you can get
(16:21):
somebody who may be in anaggressive state or in a
meltdown.
Give them the time to getthrough it If they're not
harming themselves or anybodyelse.
It's time and there, after thetraining sessions, there are
other policy decisions forpolicing and public safety and
criminal justice system policingand public safety and criminal
(16:44):
justice system.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
What topics are typically discussed after your
classes to improve theinteractions between the autism
community and the firstresponders?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
How can we connect up with this community that's
having a higher rate of contact?
For autism and developmentaldisabilities it's still at about
seven times higher contact ratethan a typical person.
How can we connect with theseorganizations and individuals so
we can talk about these issuesin a good environment where
(17:14):
there's an exchange ofinformation?
And there are really goodexamples around the country and
in other countries where lawenforcement may be the ones
reaching out their hands.
There may be advocates reachingout their hands to them.
The more we spend, the more timethat is spent talking about
(17:36):
things that might have gonewrong, talking about
expectations that are notrealistic for the police, about
the police from parents, frompolice.
The place to talk about that isthrough these opportunities to
share information.
And here's a group that ishaving a higher rate of contact.
(17:57):
You know it's not the La CosaNostra.
The LCN is not going to want tomeet with the police, but in
most cases the advocates do.
For folks with disabilities,the training is a policy
decision to help get some skillsets developed, some of the when
and how and why you might needto use them.
(18:18):
But another community-orientedcommand-level decision would be
to do outreach to thesecommunities and not allow it to
be a one-off.
A one-off is cool for themoment.
You know it's like having agood meal.
You know it wears off, and thenif you're eating bad meals
after that, all you can do isthink about the good one.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Absolutely.
Now how do people contact you?
So if they want to get some ofyour videos or your written
material, they can order it orfind it.
How do they find you?
Speaker 2 (18:51):
through email, at ddpi, at flashnet, the website
you can find some of thosematerials at and links to it, is
autismriskmanagement all onelong word, com.
(19:14):
Or they can contact you, tony,and you know how to get a hold
of me.
You found me.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Exactly, yeah, exactly Now.
Is this something that you'regoing to continue to do?
Is this an ongoing thing?
What do you see over the nextfew years for your company and
what you're trying to do withautism?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
years and they'll live to experience closer to 40.
I am training other people whoare interested and have a strong
interest and skill set level togo out and conduct these
training sessions in theircommunities, maybe to give
(19:53):
something back if they're a PhDor they're in ABA or social work
or they're educators, or itcould be officers who are
retired or family members couldbe a brother, sister and cousin,
or it can be and it is agenciesand individuals who see the
(20:13):
need for this and want to goback to someone who has been
successfully doing this for 30years.
I do have lesson plans andmaterial that can help someone
get going in this area.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, this isn't something you take a pill for
and it's gone.
It's a lifelong thing.
People have to figure out howto handle it and work through it
so they can do what they wantto with their life in society.
This way, they get to live afulfilled life without,
hopefully, ever having an issuewith the legal system.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Right, it will be ongoing.
There are other populations themore that we get together, and
then there are other factorsthat get in the way, how
politics could get in the way ofit, funding issues, but
basically this is frontlinecontacts that are going to take
place, whether it's addressed inthe training room or not.
(21:09):
Help the law enforcement beprepared as they possibly can.
Nothing can be perfect.
We can't complain about thingsthat are imperfect, because life
is not perfect.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah, that's for sure .
I wish it was.
Now, what would you like totell the listeners that you
think is very important, thatthey need to hear about what
you're trying to put across?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, it's about everyone's safety first.
It's about developing realisticexpectations of what's going to
happen and how you can becomeinvolved in being an agent of
change.
That can be simply telling yourstory, your lived experiences.
Talk about it, write about it,let people know.
(21:54):
I know disclosure is an issuethat others and many others and
you have to address it as itgoes.
It's not like well, I willalways disclose.
No, you got to address it as itgoes.
It's not like well, I willalways disclose no.
You got to make decisions.
I'd disclose to the guy I'mbuying a hamburger from.
No, maybe not, but there mightbe a time and place where that
might be useful.
(22:15):
So, having that skill set andhaving the information available
in the 21st century, here in2025, there is great technology
for our information that'simportant about an individual
and key it up to whereverthey're at at the time to alert
(22:36):
law enforcement that here'ssomebody that needs a different
approach and, in fact, createthat personal plan and have it
placed voluntarily, mind you, inthe emergency call center or
911.
There are places for disclosurethat we need to explore further
(22:56):
and I think in the future,technology is going to catch up
to this quicker than I expected,there is no perfect answer.
The more people thinking aboutit, the better off we'll all be.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Absolutely Well.
This has been great, Greatinformation, great stories.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to come on.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
No problem.
Happy to Tony and thank you fordoing this important work.
You're doing what we'resuggesting out here right now.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Well, it's a work in progress for all of us.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking the time outof your busy schedule to listen
to our show today.
We hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as we enjoyed bringing it
to you.
If you know anyone that wouldlike to tell us their story,
(23:47):
send them to TonyMantorcomcontact then they can give us
their information so one daythey may be a guest on our show.
One more thing we ask telleveryone everywhere about why
Not Me, the world, theconversations we're having and
(24:07):
the inspiration our guests giveto everyone everywhere that you
are not alone in this world.
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