May 19, 2025 • 31 mins
Pete Early shares his journey from Washington Post journalist to mental health advocate after his son developed bipolar disorder, revealing how a broken system forces families into crisis before providing help.
• Diagnosis came during his son Kevin's college years with warning signs like "food doesn't taste good" and confusion about reality
• Psychiatrist delivered a devastating prognosis: "incurable disease" with lifetime medication, weight gain, likely unemployment
• Kevin stopped taking medication after a few weeks, leading to psychosis and breaking into a stranger's house
• Early couldn't get help until his son became "dangerous" enough for intervention
• His son joined 365,000 Americans with serious mental illness who end up in jails and prisons annually
• Crisis intervention training for police makes crucial difference in mental health encounters
• Recovery came through proper medication, independent living with supportive roommates, and finding purpose as a peer counselor
• Early discovered the difference between being a parent versus a partner in someone's recovery
• Mental health system requires criminal behavior before providing adequate treatment
• Despite Early's connections and resources, getting proper help took years of struggle
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to why Not Me ?
The World Podcast, hosted byTony Mantor, broadcasting from
Music City, usa, nashville,tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell ustheir stories.
Some will make you laugh, somewill make you cry.
Their stories Some will makeyou laugh, some will make you
(00:29):
cry.
Real life people who willinspire and show that you are
not alone in this world.
Hopefully, you gain moreawareness, acceptance and a
better understanding for autismAround the World.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
(00:52):
Welcome to why Not Me?
The World Humanity OverHandcuffs the Silent Crisis
special event.
We're joined by Pete Early, anaccomplished author of 22 books,
including four New York Timesbestsellers, with a 14-year
journalism career, including sixyears at the Washington Post.
His book Crazy chronicles thepersonal events that led him to
(01:15):
advocate for mental healthreform.
Pete's here to share a wealthof insights.
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
No, my pleasure, I'm like you.
I mean I want to spread theword.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Absolutely.
I know so many people that sayyour work is amazing.
Your name's everywhere inwriting and blogging.
What sparked your passion formental health advocacy?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well, you know, as a reporter I had covered mental
health.
I'd covered the greatdeinstitutionalization process,
but I really didn't get it untilit happened to my own son.
What happened is my son, kevin.
I call him Michael in the bookbecause he was going through all
this while I was writing thebook, and even six years later
(01:59):
after the book was published, wewere going through trying to
get him stable, trying to helphim move forward.
He was in college.
We know that most serious mentalillnesses emerge in young men
and young women, from 17 up to25.
That's the prime period.
He called me up one day and hesaid Dad, food doesn't taste
(02:19):
good and he just hung up.
Then he called back.
He said Dad, I don't know ifI'm dreaming or awake.
I think I took five homelesspeople to breakfast and then he
hung up.
I called him back and this timehe said Dad, I don't know if
I'm dreaming or awake.
So I managed to get him in tosee a psychiatrist and I'll
never forget what thatpsychiatrist said.
He said to me after talking tohim he says if you're lucky, he
(02:43):
has a drug problem.
If you're not lucky, he has amental illness.
And I thought I'm lucky if Ihave a kid with a drug problem,
come on, really Well, a bloodtest showed that he didn't have
a drug problem.
Instead he was showing signs ofbipolar.
The doctor really kind ofscared us because he said the
(03:04):
doctor really kind of scared usbecause he said I'm not going to
sugarcoat this.
You have an incurable disease.
You will take medications therest of your life.
Those medications will causeyou to gain weight.
You probably can't hold a job.
Getting married is probably nota good idea.
Oh yeah, people with mentalillness die 15 to 20 years
earlier before the rest of us.
When I was diagnosed with lungcancer, the first thing I did is
(03:30):
I read everything I could and Isaid well, I'm going to beat
the odds.
Well, kevin was the same way.
He wasn't going to be one ofthose crazy people out there.
So he took meds for two orthree weeks, which is the
therapeutic length.
They quit taking them and Ithought of course, if you have a
headache, you take aspirin andit goes away, right.
Well, a year later I got a paniccall from my older son in New
York and he said come quick,kevin is crazy.
(03:52):
I went up there and Kevin hadbeen wandering around Manhattan
for five days.
He barely slept, barely eaten.
He was convinced God had him ona special mission.
So I convinced him to come backto Fairfax, virginia, outside
Washington, to see where I live,and we drove to an emergency
room.
I didn't have a familypsychiatrist.
Right before we got there hesaid to me Dad, how would you
(04:13):
feel if someone you love killedhimself?
So I thought, oh my gosh, I'vegot to deal with this.
The nurse rolled her eyes whenhe came in because he was
talking gibberish.
And then we were put in a roomto wait, all by ourselves, and
we waited, and waited, andwaited and waited and then after
four hours my son said I'mleaving.
Pills are poison, there'snothing wrong with me Wow,
(04:33):
that's kind of scary.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
What happened next?
Did a doctor finally see himand hopefully get it under
control?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So I literally grabbed a doctor, tony, and
brought him in that room and hesaid I can't really help you.
I said you haven't evenexamined my son.
He said it didn't matter.
Kevin had told the nurse thathe thought all pills were poison
and we'd been there for fourhours, so clearly there was no
immediate imminent danger tohimself or others.
He said you seem like aconcerned dad bringing back
(05:04):
after he tries to harm you orsomeone else.
Can you imagine being in anemergency room and have a doctor
tell you that?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Wow, yes, that's very tough to take in for sure.
What happened from there?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Took my son home.
He slipped out of the houseearly one morning, broke into a
stranger's house to take abubble bath, took five police
officers to get him out and atthat point my son became one of
the 365,000 people with seriousmental illness, schizophrenia,
bipolar disorder and severe andpersistent depression who end up
(05:36):
in our jails and prisons.
Two million a year get bookedin.
Over a million are on probation.
Every jail in the United Statesis overcrowded with folks who
have mental illnesses.
It's become cliche, but it'strue.
The LA jail is the largestpublic mental facility in the
United States, cook County.
(05:56):
I was so frustrated that I triedto get him help and I couldn't.
And the next thing I know he'sbeing charged with two felonies
breaking, entering anddestruction of property.
I didn't know what to do.
I mentioned it.
I said to my wife I want tohelp our son.
She said, peter, only a fathercan't do much, but as a reporter
you can, and so I decided I'dwrite a book about him.
(06:18):
I spent 10 months in the jailin Miami-Dade, which was the
only one that would let me inbecause of a great judge down
there, judge Stephen Lightman.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yes, he's been on the podcast, which was a great
episode Once you were in thesystem.
What unfolded from there?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I followed people through the system to see what
happened to them.
Now I want to make one morecomment, and that is my book
came out.
It hit a real nerve becausethere's so many parents like me
out there, but the end of thebook you always want a happy
ending and it ends with my sonand I talking about his future
and he's on his meds and medshelp him.
It all looks like everything'sgoing great.
(06:55):
Well, it actually was thebeginning of six more years of
hell.
At one point he got tasered bythe police, which we can talk
about, and it wasn't until hisfinal breakdown that he finally
decided that he needed to helphimself, and that's a key to all
this.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
This whole journey with your son got you into
writing this book.
Once you got it all puttogether, then you found there
are others out there that aregoing through the same things
that you went through.
What was the next step on thisjourney that you found there are
others out there that are goingthrough the same things that
you went through?
What was the next step on thisjourney that you found yourself
on?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I've learned as a journalist for more than 50
years the power of the press.
I did not want my son to bejust cast aside and not matter.
So I felt if I wrote a book andI also contacted Don Graham,
who was then the owner of theWashington Post, and got them
interested in this, because Iwanted to make people realize
(07:51):
that hey, this is my son, Iwanted to put a human face on it
and I wanted them to know thatI was going to write about it.
Now what's ironic about that ishere's a guy who worked at the
Washington Post.
I've been very lucky andfortunate.
In my books I've had fivebestsellers in a miniseries.
I got a college education, yetI couldn't get my kid help, even
(08:15):
after I wrote a book about it,even though at one point I
called up Mike Wallace with CBSand 60 Minutes, he actually
called the hospital on my behalf.
Even after all of that, I stillcouldn't get my son the kind of
help he needed until he got introuble one more time.
I often wonder what if you're arecent immigrant?
(08:37):
What if you don't speak thelanguage?
What if you have no connections, no money, no knowledge of the
system and you're just going tobe swept away by it.
There's a high chance that theperson you love is going to end
up in jail, and that's just notright.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I agree with you 100% on that point.
I've heard cases where thelegal system told parents they
couldn't act until somethinghappened.
Sadly, involving the systemoften led to bad outcomes Not
all of them, but a lot of cases.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
And that's always the danger.
Now you live in Nashville,which is pretty interesting
because I was just there.
Your sheriff has made mentalhealth a high priority, because
the sheriffs and the judges havedone more than the mental
health advocates at gettingpeople out of jail and setting
up programs, because they don'twant them there.
They're very expensive, theystay three times longer than
(09:31):
people charged with the samecrime.
The medication bills areastronomical and most of them
don't belong there.
This is important, tony,because people say well, they
broke the law, they need to bein jail.
Well, let's look at a case.
Let's look at J Shamil Mitchell, a young man over in Norfolk,
virginia.
He got arrested because hestole something out of a
(09:53):
7-Eleven store.
They recognized he had a mentalillness.
There was no room at the statehospital so he had to wait for a
bed there.
Over 100 days later he was founddead in his feces line cell.
He died from a heart attackcaused by starvation.
Because they didn't get aroundto getting him in the hospital
(10:16):
and he didn't know how to followthe rules in the jail.
So they give him an order andhe didn't understand it, so they
wouldn't give him food.
And what's worse was a nursesaw him and she didn't find it
alarming that he'd lost 50pounds and was so weak.
So this is the kind of stuffthat's going on out there, and I
can see how with someone withautism.
We know of incidents like thattoo.
(10:38):
We had a case in Maryland wherea young man stayed in a movie
theater and he ended up payingfor it in his life.
Because we have to train ourofficers, that's one of the
first steps.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I've spoken with advocates who train police and
first responders to bettersupport individuals with autism
and those facing mental healthcrisis.
It's a start.
It's a good start.
However, it'll take time tofoster the trust and awareness
needed for officers tounderstand what these
individuals experienced duringsuch encounters.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Let me tell you about my son's recovery.
If I'd been a Hollywoodscreenwriter, I could have done
a better job than what happened.
We go through six years of hell.
Green Rider, he could have donea better job than what happened
.
We go through six years of hell.
At one point he becomesdangerous and I call up the
local mobile crisis responseteam.
We live in an area of 1.5million people.
(11:30):
We had one team that onlyoperated between eight to four
on non-on weekends, but this wasa team that was supposed to
come and see you and decidewhether you met the criteria
that you could be required totake medication or get some kind
of treatment.
They said well, is your sondangerous?
I said no, but let me tell youwhat he did last time.
He broke into a house, take abubble bath and he's off his
(11:53):
medication.
And please, we can't come.
You have to wait till he'sdangerous.
Well, the night he wasdangerous.
I called that same dispatcherand I said look, please come, my
son's violent.
And he goes oh wait, is hedangerous or is he violent?
And I said he's violent.
He says, well, we don't come.
If they're violent, call thepolice.
So the police came and theyrushed in and shot him twice
(12:16):
with the taser, that the policecame and they rushed in and shot
him twice with the taser.
That's the kind of stuff thathappens when you get police
involvement if the police haveno training.
Last time my son, kevin, wassick six years after my book was
published.
It's Thanksgiving.
He can tell I know he's off hismeds because of the way he's
acting.
So he jumps in his car and hegoes driving off and I call and
(12:38):
I call and I call.
He won't answer his phone.
Finally he answers it.
I said where are you going?
He says I'm going to heaven.
And that's of course veryalarming and he hung up.
Well then he called me, run outof gas in North Carolina.
So I said OK, that's not aproblem, that's not a problem,
I'll give you a credit cardnumber.
He says no, dad, you don'tunderstand.
(12:58):
If I step out of this car Iwill die.
Now you know that's ridiculous,but that's what his mind was
telling him and that's what hebelieved.
So I did what no father shoulddo.
I arranged for him to get gasand drove, completely psychotic,
up 95, went off the road twice.
Luckily wasn't arrested, didn'thit anybody.
That's how close you come inthese situations.
(13:21):
I said by this time I talked toall the experts, tony, and they
said you got to be a partner,not a parent.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I can imagine that must be really, really tough.
What kind of things did theytell you that needed to be done
to accomplish this?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
You got to not argue with them, figure out what
they're trying to accomplish andsee if you can move them in a
direction that is beneficial totheir health.
So I said what do you want todo?
And Kevin says, oh, there's asafe house.
I want to spend the night in asafe house and kind of get you
know, figure it all out.
I said great.
So I took him over, checked himin, went home, breathed a sigh
of relief At least I knew he wassafe.
Well, he got up middle of thenight, took off all his clothes,
(14:00):
because when you take off yourclothes you know you're
invisible.
So then he's walking down thestreet.
But listen to what happened thistime.
This time a crisis interventionteam trained officer, someone
who had taken the 40-hourMemphis model course on how to
recognize and help people withmental illness.
That officer saw him and herolled down his window and said
(14:21):
hey, buddy, not safe of youwalking here around naked.
Why don't you get in the carand we'll go over to the
hospital?
My son said don't handcuff me,I'm not a criminal.
And that's when I got taseredlast time.
You guys tried to handcuff meand I resisted.
So he goes OK, ok, get in theback of the car and he used his
discretion.
He didn't handcuff him, whichwas very important.
(14:43):
Then he said what kind of musicyou like?
And my son said, oh, I love rapmusic.
And he said, oh, and he turnedthe radio to a rap station.
When they got to the hospitalmy son actually shook his hand
and said this is better than ataxi ride.
But he showed him compassion,he listened to him and then he
didn't leave.
And when the doctor said, well,nothing dangerous about walking
(15:03):
around naked, he doesn't meetcriteria.
Because you got to understandone thing here and then I'll get
back to the story Most doctorsdon't want to treat somebody
with a severe mental illness.
They really don't.
They want to treat somebodywho's worried.
Well, someone who's beenmarried a couple times, has good
insurance, they can have therest of their life, talk therapy
.
They're scared of people withschizophrenia.
(15:25):
They're scared of people whohave mental illness, but anyway.
So the doctor wasn't going toadmit him, and so the officer
actually said to him well, I'mgoing to look up where you live
and drive him over there anddrop him off.
So all of a sudden he wasadmitted and then he got a case
manager.
What happened then was a miracle, because she said you really
shouldn't live with your dad,let's find you a place.
(15:46):
You're 30 years old, let's findyou a place to live
independently.
So I moved in with two guyswith schizophrenia, and I
thought that was silly becauseI'm an empty nester and I
thought he could live with me.
But it was brilliant because itgave him responsibility, gave
him his own home, gave himresponsibility.
And then she said why don't youtake your meds?
(16:07):
And he said well, they make mesluggish, I can't drink, it's
all these things.
So she said let me find adoctor to work with you.
You know, of my son's sevenpsychiatrists, only two ever
bothered to learn anything morethan his name and his diagnosis,
because they're going to be a15-minute med check and then
send you out to the door.
So he found a doctor, actuallytalked to him and they got a
medication that really helpedhim with fewer side effects.
(16:30):
Then she said what do you wantto do with your?
What can I do?
I have a mental illness.
She said no, knock it off.
Control the illness, don't letit control you.
So my son, college educated,brilliant, high IQ was the guy
outside the Home Depot storecollecting carts, and he got
depressed.
Then she saw him one day andshe said but you're doing great.
And he thought she was mocking,but she wasn't.
(16:52):
She said come and talk to somepeople in my group.
And so he did and he realizedhe was doing great compared to a
lot of folks and she said I hadthe perfect job for you.
I want you to be a peer-to-peercounselor.
So my son took all the coursesand he became a person with
mental illness who helps otherpeople with mental illnesses.
It's a fantastic job.
(17:15):
Now he's gone on, he's got hismaster's degree in social work
and he's working full-time,living independently.
So don't tell me recovery isnot possible.
The problem is we know how tohelp most people, we just don't
do it.
Also, there are cases where wedon't know what to do, and
that's what's really sad.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
That's definitely a sad situation.
You sent me a video of himsinging on stage.
The audience seemed to reallylove it, which feels like a
bright spot for him.
Can you give a quick rundown onhow that came about?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Dr Jameson, kay Redfield Jameson, up in
Baltimore, wrote a book whereshe hypothesized that if you
have a mental illness, you oftenare extremely artistic and you
think outside the box.
You think differently thanother people.
Of course, for parents this isfantastic.
We're all in for that.
But he was an artist and thenhe switched over and wanted to
(18:12):
start doing rap music because ofhis writing and nowadays people
can put their own music outthere and he does his own music
and puts it out and it's helpedhim because you know we went
through a decade of hell overthis.
It was awful.
I wouldn't wish it on anyone,but we were extremely lucky.
(18:37):
We know that medication used togo by the rule of thirds and
they're getting better withmedication, but we know one
third are really helped withmedication and my son falls in
that One third get no effect andone third actually are hurt.
We were very, very lucky withhim.
Besides the medication, you hadto have a purpose in life and,
as strange as it sounds, hisillness gave him a purpose and
(18:58):
it turned me from a journalistinto an advocate and gave me a
purpose.
So it's that finding thatsilver lining and there's so
many parents out there there isno silver lining.
I think the hardest thing and Iimagine it's true for autism
too is the hardest thing for me,and I still work on it is
accepting that I may not be ableto save my own child.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yes, that's a very tough realization to have.
I talk with so many people inhow they try and work with their
child and the fact that youbrought up the thirds.
That does make sense in a lotof things.
You have different levels inautism.
That's why they call it thespectrum Right.
You have those that struggle.
(19:40):
You have those that can be verysuccessful in life.
Then you have those that willalways need help for their whole
life.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
There's a lot of similarities in autism and
certain mental health issues.
In both cases the child hasdifficulties.
The parents, they have that bigblack hole, the big unknown.
They don't know what to do.
So lots of times they'relearning at the same rate that
their kids are learning.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Well, and also we have a system that is designed
for failure.
If you get sicker and sickerand sicker and sicker and sicker
, eventually the system willreact to you Because of the
civil rights movement thattransferred in the 70s and 80s
to mental health and theshuttering of all these horrible
(20:31):
, a lot of horrible institutions.
You know, I was in Portugal.
Nobody over there is scared ofa mental hospital.
They're run by nuns and it'sjust like any other hospital.
Iceland the same way, but inour country the idea of a mental
hospital is like, terrifying topeople.
So what we've done is we haveinsisted that we get all these
(20:52):
folks, that we can and treatthem in a community and actually
autism and Down syndrome, thosefolks really led the whole
effort to deinstitutionalize.
That has been fantastic forthose who can be helped in those
community settings anddangerous for those who cannot,
who end up homeless on thestreet.
(21:14):
I must say this within our owncommunities, though, we have a
prejudice.
It's interesting to me that ifyou look at the Virginia
Department of Mental Health, thehighest funding priorities are
not mental illness, they aredevelopmental disabilities and
they'll want to pit us againsteach other.
But one of the reasons isbecause those folks in the
(21:34):
developmental disabilities, andno one will pit us against each
other.
But one of the reasons isbecause those folks in the
developmental disabilities havebeen fighting for their kids
from day one.
They have an empatheticaudience.
It's difficult to compete withthat when you have somebody who
has bipolar or schizophrenia,who just got in a movie theater
and shot people.
I mean you know.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yes, unfortunately, that's the one thing that mental
health has to fight, as well asautism is the stigma of it all.
People that do not understandit sometimes rush to judgment,
because they have a perceptionof what they think it is rather
than the reality of what itactually is.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Exactly Well and also , you know it's daunting and I
don't.
I mean, in my own neighborhoodwe have someone who's very
highly functioning and thensomeone who's not, and the
parents, you know it's justrough on the parents either way,
but it's rough on a parent whenyou have someone who has a
mental illness.
Now my son's doing fantasticnow but you have that fear what
happens if his meds quit workingor what happens when I'm gone.
(22:41):
And I mean you go throughsimilar things.
It's interesting because whenhe first got sick we spent a
little while going like, oh, Ijust wish it was the way it used
to be and that was a waste oftime.
But you have to go throughthose levels.
It's almost like the levels ofgrief, to get to the point.
But I do think and I still havestruggles with this, even
(23:03):
though my son's doing so well, Ican't imagine it being too much
different for any other parentis that's?
Your job as a parent is to savethis person and you have to
realize that cruel illnesses youmay not be able to save someone
, and accepting that is really,really tough.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
It's very hard to accept, because a parent only
wants what's best for the child.
If they can't give it to them,they think they failed, which in
reality they haven't failed.
The one thing that you justbrought up, which is common with
everyone I speak with, is theyare so fearful is what happens
to my child if I'm not here?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Right, exactly In my book.
A couple of deputies came to meand they said you should look
and see why this girl I call herApril Hernandez in the book,
why she's in jail.
And the reason she was in jailis her parents and relatives had
framed her.
They'd accused her of stealinga car.
Now why would you do that?
You would do that to get heroff the street because she
(24:06):
wasn't considered a danger toherself or others, but she was
psychotic and she'd been gangraped twice, living on the
streets of South Beach andbeaten up three times by
teenagers who thought it washilarious to beat people up.
This is the world I mean.
I was just down in Nashvilleand you guys were interesting,
because your sheriff down therehas actually built a behavioral
(24:29):
health unit in the jail becausehe wants to help people, get
them restored before he sendsthem back.
Now that's a wonderful idea,but it also links in jail with
treatment and you shouldn't haveto go to jail to get treatment.
So that's the conundrum.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, unfortunately you are so correct there.
The only thing I can say aboutthat is at least you have
someone that's stepping up andtrying to at least help, Right?
The beauty of what he's doingis he's doing exactly opposite
of what we hear.
A lot that makes the daily news.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Well, you know the amount of money that we spend on
mental health is unbelievablewhen you see what kind of
reaction we get.
I focus on jails and prisonsand serious, serious mental
illness.
The problem is that with mentalillnesses it's kind of hard to
say, oh, this is a seriousmental illness and this is not.
(25:29):
For instance, schizophrenia isa serious mental illness, but if
you have a 15-year-old girlwho's cutting herself because
she's being bullied at school,that doesn't follow as a serious
mental illness.
But you may have a high suiciderate because of that.
One of my pet peeves is since myson he's been diagnosed as
(25:50):
bipolar disorder,schizoaffective disorder, early
onset schizophrenia.
The truth is we don't know,because there's no blood test,
there's no marker that you canidentify.
What you have to do on is yougo based on what that person
presents to you at the time andhow many boxes under bipolar do
(26:10):
they fit?
But the truth is, in my mindyour brain is so much more
complicated than that that it'sreally kind of a stewpot of both
emotions and heredity.
I mean.
The truth is we don't know.
We know that there's some kindof genetic component to
schizophrenia, but we don't knowwhy it emerges, when it does,
(26:30):
etc.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yes, there's definitely a lot more that we
need to learn.
What would you like to tell thelisteners that you think is
very important they hear aboutwhat you're doing?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Well, I think if you're a parent, what you need
to do is realize whether it'sautism or whether it's serious
mental illness.
This isn't going to go away.
I mean, when it first happensyou think, oh, this is just a
bump in the road and this isjust.
It happened in college andpeople have it.
No, if you have a seriousmental illness, it's a lifetime.
You got to educate yourself.
(27:01):
If you want to help your child,you really have to know.
In mental health, do we havecrisis intervention team, police
officers?
Do we have a jail diversionprogram?
Do we have judges who areinterested in getting people the
treatment rather than justpunishing them and getting them
stuck in a revolving door?
How do I access those services?
You need to educate yourself onall those things, including the
(27:25):
illness itself.
You know I talked to Tom Insell, who was the head of the
National Institutes of MentalHealth, and he said Pete, being
a parent is not helping you.
Being a partner is Don't arguewith your son.
You can't argue with.
I got to tell you this.
I can't tell you this story.
My son gets out and I know he'soff his meds.
(27:46):
So I think, well, I'm prettysmart.
You know, I've been to go intothese meetings.
I've talked to all theseexperts.
So I said to him look, let'slook on a legal pad, divide in
half.
This is when you're doing welland this is when you're not
doing well.
Oh look, when you're doing well, you're on your medication,
because medication helps you.
Well, I found out, you couldn'ttalk logic to someone who's not
(28:07):
thinking logical.
So then I said okay, kevin,I'll pay you 50 bucks a week,
take your meds in front of me.
And he looked at me and saiddad, I'm not a prostitute.
So that didn't go well.
So then I decided that I'dactually grind up his medication
and hide it in his breakfastcereal.
Well, what happened?
I discovered that hismedication floated all these
(28:30):
pink flakes and he got mad.
Then I said you know, look, allthese pink flakes.
And he got mad.
Then I said you know, look, Ihave the golden rule, I'm the
guy with the gold.
You want to live here, you haveto follow my rules.
You take your meds.
And of course he told me somewords you can't use on a podcast
, or shouldn't, and left thehouse and moved in with my
ex-wife.
So these are the kind of thingsthat weren't helpful, but
(28:55):
they're the natural things youdo as a parent.
The thing that saved my son wasnot me.
It was a caseworker, but it wasalso.
He woke up and he said I'm inhospital again.
I mean five hospitalizationsand being tasered.
Something's definitely wrong, Ihave to admit it.
It took him that long to admitit, because who wants to admit
(29:15):
you're crazy?
Nobody.
So he did that.
Then the doctor scared the hellout of him because he showed
him a brain scan and said you'rekilling parts of your brain.
Every time you have a breakdown, it begins with that person
wanting to change.
And, of course, the frustratingthing with autism and the
frustrating thing with mentalillness in many ways is the
(29:37):
person who needs to change oftenisn't aware they need to change
or they can't be.
There's a big argument madethat the first part of your
brain that goes bad is yourjudgment.
They're the ones with theproblem.
You're not.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, that's so true.
Well, this has been great,great conversation, tremendous
information.
I appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Tony, thank you so much.
I appreciate talking to you.
God bless you for what you'redoing.
Like I said, most people have adog in the fight.
Hopefully our paths will crossagain.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
It's been my pleasure .
Thanks again, pleasure.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking the time outof your busy schedule to listen
to our show today.
We hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as we enjoyed bringing it
to you.
If you know anyone that wouldlike to tell us their story,
(30:32):
send them to TonyMantorcomContact Then they can give us
their information so one daythey may be a guest on our show.
One more thing we ask Telleveryone everywhere about why
Not Me, the world, theconversations we're having and
(30:53):
the inspiration our guests giveto everyone everywhere that you
are not alone in this world.
Welcome to why Not Me ?
The World Podcast, hosted byTony Mantor, broadcasting from
Music City, usa, nashville,tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell ustheir stories.
Some will make you laugh, somewill make you cry.
Their stories Some will makeyou laugh, some will make you
(00:29):
cry.
Real life people who willinspire and show that you are
not alone in this world.
Hopefully, you gain moreawareness, acceptance and a
better understanding for autismAround the World.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
(00:52):
Welcome to why Not Me?
The World Humanity OverHandcuffs the Silent Crisis
special event.
We're joined by Pete Early, anaccomplished author of 22 books,
including four New York Timesbestsellers, with a 14-year
journalism career, including sixyears at the Washington Post.
His book Crazy chronicles thepersonal events that led him to
(01:15):
advocate for mental healthreform.
Pete's here to share a wealthof insights.
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
No, my pleasure, I'm like you.
I mean I want to spread theword.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Absolutely.
I know so many people that sayyour work is amazing.
Your name's everywhere inwriting and blogging.
What sparked your passion formental health advocacy?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Well, you know, as a reporter I had covered mental
health.
I'd covered the greatdeinstitutionalization process,
but I really didn't get it untilit happened to my own son.
What happened is my son, kevin.
I call him Michael in the bookbecause he was going through all
this while I was writing thebook, and even six years later
(01:59):
after the book was published, wewere going through trying to
get him stable, trying to helphim move forward.
He was in college.
We know that most serious mentalillnesses emerge in young men
and young women, from 17 up to25.
That's the prime period.
He called me up one day and hesaid Dad, food doesn't taste
(02:19):
good and he just hung up.
Then he called back.
He said Dad, I don't know ifI'm dreaming or awake.
I think I took five homelesspeople to breakfast and then he
hung up.
I called him back and this timehe said Dad, I don't know if
I'm dreaming or awake.
So I managed to get him in tosee a psychiatrist and I'll
never forget what thatpsychiatrist said.
He said to me after talking tohim he says if you're lucky, he
(02:43):
has a drug problem.
If you're not lucky, he has amental illness.
And I thought I'm lucky if Ihave a kid with a drug problem,
come on, really Well, a bloodtest showed that he didn't have
a drug problem.
Instead he was showing signs ofbipolar.
The doctor really kind ofscared us because he said the
(03:04):
doctor really kind of scared usbecause he said I'm not going to
sugarcoat this.
You have an incurable disease.
You will take medications therest of your life.
Those medications will causeyou to gain weight.
You probably can't hold a job.
Getting married is probably nota good idea.
Oh yeah, people with mentalillness die 15 to 20 years
earlier before the rest of us.
When I was diagnosed with lungcancer, the first thing I did is
(03:30):
I read everything I could and Isaid well, I'm going to beat
the odds.
Well, kevin was the same way.
He wasn't going to be one ofthose crazy people out there.
So he took meds for two orthree weeks, which is the
therapeutic length.
They quit taking them and Ithought of course, if you have a
headache, you take aspirin andit goes away, right.
Well, a year later I got a paniccall from my older son in New
York and he said come quick,kevin is crazy.
(03:52):
I went up there and Kevin hadbeen wandering around Manhattan
for five days.
He barely slept, barely eaten.
He was convinced God had him ona special mission.
So I convinced him to come backto Fairfax, virginia, outside
Washington, to see where I live,and we drove to an emergency
room.
I didn't have a familypsychiatrist.
Right before we got there hesaid to me Dad, how would you
(04:13):
feel if someone you love killedhimself?
So I thought, oh my gosh, I'vegot to deal with this.
The nurse rolled her eyes whenhe came in because he was
talking gibberish.
And then we were put in a roomto wait, all by ourselves, and
we waited, and waited, andwaited and waited and then after
four hours my son said I'mleaving.
Pills are poison, there'snothing wrong with me Wow,
(04:33):
that's kind of scary.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
What happened next?
Did a doctor finally see himand hopefully get it under
control?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
So I literally grabbed a doctor, tony, and
brought him in that room and hesaid I can't really help you.
I said you haven't evenexamined my son.
He said it didn't matter.
Kevin had told the nurse thathe thought all pills were poison
and we'd been there for fourhours, so clearly there was no
immediate imminent danger tohimself or others.
He said you seem like aconcerned dad bringing back
(05:04):
after he tries to harm you orsomeone else.
Can you imagine being in anemergency room and have a doctor
tell you that?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Wow, yes, that's very tough to take in for sure.
What happened from there?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Took my son home.
He slipped out of the houseearly one morning, broke into a
stranger's house to take abubble bath, took five police
officers to get him out and atthat point my son became one of
the 365,000 people with seriousmental illness, schizophrenia,
bipolar disorder and severe andpersistent depression who end up
(05:36):
in our jails and prisons.
Two million a year get bookedin.
Over a million are on probation.
Every jail in the United Statesis overcrowded with folks who
have mental illnesses.
It's become cliche, but it'strue.
The LA jail is the largestpublic mental facility in the
United States, cook County.
(05:56):
I was so frustrated that I triedto get him help and I couldn't.
And the next thing I know he'sbeing charged with two felonies
breaking, entering anddestruction of property.
I didn't know what to do.
I mentioned it.
I said to my wife I want tohelp our son.
She said, peter, only a fathercan't do much, but as a reporter
you can, and so I decided I'dwrite a book about him.
(06:18):
I spent 10 months in the jailin Miami-Dade, which was the
only one that would let me inbecause of a great judge down
there, judge Stephen Lightman.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yes, he's been on the podcast, which was a great
episode Once you were in thesystem.
What unfolded from there?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I followed people through the system to see what
happened to them.
Now I want to make one morecomment, and that is my book
came out.
It hit a real nerve becausethere's so many parents like me
out there, but the end of thebook you always want a happy
ending and it ends with my sonand I talking about his future
and he's on his meds and medshelp him.
It all looks like everything'sgoing great.
(06:55):
Well, it actually was thebeginning of six more years of
hell.
At one point he got tasered bythe police, which we can talk
about, and it wasn't until hisfinal breakdown that he finally
decided that he needed to helphimself, and that's a key to all
this.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
This whole journey with your son got you into
writing this book.
Once you got it all puttogether, then you found there
are others out there that aregoing through the same things
that you went through.
What was the next step on thisjourney that you found there are
others out there that are goingthrough the same things that
you went through?
What was the next step on thisjourney that you found yourself
on?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
I've learned as a journalist for more than 50
years the power of the press.
I did not want my son to bejust cast aside and not matter.
So I felt if I wrote a book andI also contacted Don Graham,
who was then the owner of theWashington Post, and got them
interested in this, because Iwanted to make people realize
(07:51):
that hey, this is my son, Iwanted to put a human face on it
and I wanted them to know thatI was going to write about it.
Now what's ironic about that ishere's a guy who worked at the
Washington Post.
I've been very lucky andfortunate.
In my books I've had fivebestsellers in a miniseries.
I got a college education, yetI couldn't get my kid help, even
(08:15):
after I wrote a book about it,even though at one point I
called up Mike Wallace with CBSand 60 Minutes, he actually
called the hospital on my behalf.
Even after all of that, I stillcouldn't get my son the kind of
help he needed until he got introuble one more time.
I often wonder what if you're arecent immigrant?
(08:37):
What if you don't speak thelanguage?
What if you have no connections, no money, no knowledge of the
system and you're just going tobe swept away by it.
There's a high chance that theperson you love is going to end
up in jail, and that's just notright.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I agree with you 100% on that point.
I've heard cases where thelegal system told parents they
couldn't act until somethinghappened.
Sadly, involving the systemoften led to bad outcomes Not
all of them, but a lot of cases.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
And that's always the danger.
Now you live in Nashville,which is pretty interesting
because I was just there.
Your sheriff has made mentalhealth a high priority, because
the sheriffs and the judges havedone more than the mental
health advocates at gettingpeople out of jail and setting
up programs, because they don'twant them there.
They're very expensive, theystay three times longer than
(09:31):
people charged with the samecrime.
The medication bills areastronomical and most of them
don't belong there.
This is important, tony,because people say well, they
broke the law, they need to bein jail.
Well, let's look at a case.
Let's look at J Shamil Mitchell, a young man over in Norfolk,
virginia.
He got arrested because hestole something out of a
(09:53):
7-Eleven store.
They recognized he had a mentalillness.
There was no room at the statehospital so he had to wait for a
bed there.
Over 100 days later he was founddead in his feces line cell.
He died from a heart attackcaused by starvation.
Because they didn't get aroundto getting him in the hospital
(10:16):
and he didn't know how to followthe rules in the jail.
So they give him an order andhe didn't understand it, so they
wouldn't give him food.
And what's worse was a nursesaw him and she didn't find it
alarming that he'd lost 50pounds and was so weak.
So this is the kind of stuffthat's going on out there, and I
can see how with someone withautism.
We know of incidents like thattoo.
(10:38):
We had a case in Maryland wherea young man stayed in a movie
theater and he ended up payingfor it in his life.
Because we have to train ourofficers, that's one of the
first steps.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I've spoken with advocates who train police and
first responders to bettersupport individuals with autism
and those facing mental healthcrisis.
It's a start.
It's a good start.
However, it'll take time tofoster the trust and awareness
needed for officers tounderstand what these
individuals experienced duringsuch encounters.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Let me tell you about my son's recovery.
If I'd been a Hollywoodscreenwriter, I could have done
a better job than what happened.
We go through six years of hell.
Green Rider, he could have donea better job than what happened
.
We go through six years of hell.
At one point he becomesdangerous and I call up the
local mobile crisis responseteam.
We live in an area of 1.5million people.
(11:30):
We had one team that onlyoperated between eight to four
on non-on weekends, but this wasa team that was supposed to
come and see you and decidewhether you met the criteria
that you could be required totake medication or get some kind
of treatment.
They said well, is your sondangerous?
I said no, but let me tell youwhat he did last time.
He broke into a house, take abubble bath and he's off his
(11:53):
medication.
And please, we can't come.
You have to wait till he'sdangerous.
Well, the night he wasdangerous.
I called that same dispatcherand I said look, please come, my
son's violent.
And he goes oh wait, is hedangerous or is he violent?
And I said he's violent.
He says, well, we don't come.
If they're violent, call thepolice.
So the police came and theyrushed in and shot him twice
(12:16):
with the taser, that the policecame and they rushed in and shot
him twice with the taser.
That's the kind of stuff thathappens when you get police
involvement if the police haveno training.
Last time my son, kevin, wassick six years after my book was
published.
It's Thanksgiving.
He can tell I know he's off hismeds because of the way he's
acting.
So he jumps in his car and hegoes driving off and I call and
(12:38):
I call and I call.
He won't answer his phone.
Finally he answers it.
I said where are you going?
He says I'm going to heaven.
And that's of course veryalarming and he hung up.
Well then he called me, run outof gas in North Carolina.
So I said OK, that's not aproblem, that's not a problem,
I'll give you a credit cardnumber.
He says no, dad, you don'tunderstand.
(12:58):
If I step out of this car Iwill die.
Now you know that's ridiculous,but that's what his mind was
telling him and that's what hebelieved.
So I did what no father shoulddo.
I arranged for him to get gasand drove, completely psychotic,
up 95, went off the road twice.
Luckily wasn't arrested, didn'thit anybody.
That's how close you come inthese situations.
(13:21):
I said by this time I talked toall the experts, tony, and they
said you got to be a partner,not a parent.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I can imagine that must be really, really tough.
What kind of things did theytell you that needed to be done
to accomplish this?
Speaker 2 (13:40):
You got to not argue with them, figure out what
they're trying to accomplish andsee if you can move them in a
direction that is beneficial totheir health.
So I said what do you want todo?
And Kevin says, oh, there's asafe house.
I want to spend the night in asafe house and kind of get you
know, figure it all out.
I said great.
So I took him over, checked himin, went home, breathed a sigh
of relief At least I knew he wassafe.
Well, he got up middle of thenight, took off all his clothes,
(14:00):
because when you take off yourclothes you know you're
invisible.
So then he's walking down thestreet.
But listen to what happened thistime.
This time a crisis interventionteam trained officer, someone
who had taken the 40-hourMemphis model course on how to
recognize and help people withmental illness.
That officer saw him and herolled down his window and said
(14:21):
hey, buddy, not safe of youwalking here around naked.
Why don't you get in the carand we'll go over to the
hospital?
My son said don't handcuff me,I'm not a criminal.
And that's when I got taseredlast time.
You guys tried to handcuff meand I resisted.
So he goes OK, ok, get in theback of the car and he used his
discretion.
He didn't handcuff him, whichwas very important.
(14:43):
Then he said what kind of musicyou like?
And my son said, oh, I love rapmusic.
And he said, oh, and he turnedthe radio to a rap station.
When they got to the hospitalmy son actually shook his hand
and said this is better than ataxi ride.
But he showed him compassion,he listened to him and then he
didn't leave.
And when the doctor said, well,nothing dangerous about walking
(15:03):
around naked, he doesn't meetcriteria.
Because you got to understandone thing here and then I'll get
back to the story Most doctorsdon't want to treat somebody
with a severe mental illness.
They really don't.
They want to treat somebodywho's worried.
Well, someone who's beenmarried a couple times, has good
insurance, they can have therest of their life, talk therapy
.
They're scared of people withschizophrenia.
(15:25):
They're scared of people whohave mental illness, but anyway.
So the doctor wasn't going toadmit him, and so the officer
actually said to him well, I'mgoing to look up where you live
and drive him over there anddrop him off.
So all of a sudden he wasadmitted and then he got a case
manager.
What happened then was a miracle, because she said you really
shouldn't live with your dad,let's find you a place.
(15:46):
You're 30 years old, let's findyou a place to live
independently.
So I moved in with two guyswith schizophrenia, and I
thought that was silly becauseI'm an empty nester and I
thought he could live with me.
But it was brilliant because itgave him responsibility, gave
him his own home, gave himresponsibility.
And then she said why don't youtake your meds?
(16:07):
And he said well, they make mesluggish, I can't drink, it's
all these things.
So she said let me find adoctor to work with you.
You know, of my son's sevenpsychiatrists, only two ever
bothered to learn anything morethan his name and his diagnosis,
because they're going to be a15-minute med check and then
send you out to the door.
So he found a doctor, actuallytalked to him and they got a
medication that really helpedhim with fewer side effects.
(16:30):
Then she said what do you wantto do with your?
What can I do?
I have a mental illness.
She said no, knock it off.
Control the illness, don't letit control you.
So my son, college educated,brilliant, high IQ was the guy
outside the Home Depot storecollecting carts, and he got
depressed.
Then she saw him one day andshe said but you're doing great.
And he thought she was mocking,but she wasn't.
(16:52):
She said come and talk to somepeople in my group.
And so he did and he realizedhe was doing great compared to a
lot of folks and she said I hadthe perfect job for you.
I want you to be a peer-to-peercounselor.
So my son took all the coursesand he became a person with
mental illness who helps otherpeople with mental illnesses.
It's a fantastic job.
(17:15):
Now he's gone on, he's got hismaster's degree in social work
and he's working full-time,living independently.
So don't tell me recovery isnot possible.
The problem is we know how tohelp most people, we just don't
do it.
Also, there are cases where wedon't know what to do, and
that's what's really sad.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
That's definitely a sad situation.
You sent me a video of himsinging on stage.
The audience seemed to reallylove it, which feels like a
bright spot for him.
Can you give a quick rundown onhow that came about?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Dr Jameson, kay Redfield Jameson, up in
Baltimore, wrote a book whereshe hypothesized that if you
have a mental illness, you oftenare extremely artistic and you
think outside the box.
You think differently thanother people.
Of course, for parents this isfantastic.
We're all in for that.
But he was an artist and thenhe switched over and wanted to
(18:12):
start doing rap music because ofhis writing and nowadays people
can put their own music outthere and he does his own music
and puts it out and it's helpedhim because you know we went
through a decade of hell overthis.
It was awful.
I wouldn't wish it on anyone,but we were extremely lucky.
(18:37):
We know that medication used togo by the rule of thirds and
they're getting better withmedication, but we know one
third are really helped withmedication and my son falls in
that One third get no effect andone third actually are hurt.
We were very, very lucky withhim.
Besides the medication, you hadto have a purpose in life and,
as strange as it sounds, hisillness gave him a purpose and
(18:58):
it turned me from a journalistinto an advocate and gave me a
purpose.
So it's that finding thatsilver lining and there's so
many parents out there there isno silver lining.
I think the hardest thing and Iimagine it's true for autism
too is the hardest thing for me,and I still work on it is
accepting that I may not be ableto save my own child.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yes, that's a very tough realization to have.
I talk with so many people inhow they try and work with their
child and the fact that youbrought up the thirds.
That does make sense in a lotof things.
You have different levels inautism.
That's why they call it thespectrum Right.
You have those that struggle.
(19:40):
You have those that can be verysuccessful in life.
Then you have those that willalways need help for their whole
life.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
There's a lot of similarities in autism and
certain mental health issues.
In both cases the child hasdifficulties.
The parents, they have that bigblack hole, the big unknown.
They don't know what to do.
So lots of times they'relearning at the same rate that
their kids are learning.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Well, and also we have a system that is designed
for failure.
If you get sicker and sickerand sicker and sicker and sicker
, eventually the system willreact to you Because of the
civil rights movement thattransferred in the 70s and 80s
to mental health and theshuttering of all these horrible
(20:31):
, a lot of horrible institutions.
You know, I was in Portugal.
Nobody over there is scared ofa mental hospital.
They're run by nuns and it'sjust like any other hospital.
Iceland the same way, but inour country the idea of a mental
hospital is like, terrifying topeople.
So what we've done is we haveinsisted that we get all these
(20:52):
folks, that we can and treatthem in a community and actually
autism and Down syndrome, thosefolks really led the whole
effort to deinstitutionalize.
That has been fantastic forthose who can be helped in those
community settings anddangerous for those who cannot,
who end up homeless on thestreet.
(21:14):
I must say this within our owncommunities, though, we have a
prejudice.
It's interesting to me that ifyou look at the Virginia
Department of Mental Health, thehighest funding priorities are
not mental illness, they aredevelopmental disabilities and
they'll want to pit us againsteach other.
But one of the reasons isbecause those folks in the
(21:34):
developmental disabilities, andno one will pit us against each
other.
But one of the reasons isbecause those folks in the
developmental disabilities havebeen fighting for their kids
from day one.
They have an empatheticaudience.
It's difficult to compete withthat when you have somebody who
has bipolar or schizophrenia,who just got in a movie theater
and shot people.
I mean you know.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yes, unfortunately, that's the one thing that mental
health has to fight, as well asautism is the stigma of it all.
People that do not understandit sometimes rush to judgment,
because they have a perceptionof what they think it is rather
than the reality of what itactually is.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Exactly Well and also , you know it's daunting and I
don't.
I mean, in my own neighborhoodwe have someone who's very
highly functioning and thensomeone who's not, and the
parents, you know it's justrough on the parents either way,
but it's rough on a parent whenyou have someone who has a
mental illness.
Now my son's doing fantasticnow but you have that fear what
happens if his meds quit workingor what happens when I'm gone.
(22:41):
And I mean you go throughsimilar things.
It's interesting because whenhe first got sick we spent a
little while going like, oh, Ijust wish it was the way it used
to be and that was a waste oftime.
But you have to go throughthose levels.
It's almost like the levels ofgrief, to get to the point.
But I do think and I still havestruggles with this, even
(23:03):
though my son's doing so well, Ican't imagine it being too much
different for any other parentis that's?
Your job as a parent is to savethis person and you have to
realize that cruel illnesses youmay not be able to save someone
, and accepting that is really,really tough.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
It's very hard to accept, because a parent only
wants what's best for the child.
If they can't give it to them,they think they failed, which in
reality they haven't failed.
The one thing that you justbrought up, which is common with
everyone I speak with, is theyare so fearful is what happens
to my child if I'm not here?
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Right, exactly In my book.
A couple of deputies came to meand they said you should look
and see why this girl I call herApril Hernandez in the book,
why she's in jail.
And the reason she was in jailis her parents and relatives had
framed her.
They'd accused her of stealinga car.
Now why would you do that?
You would do that to get heroff the street because she
(24:06):
wasn't considered a danger toherself or others, but she was
psychotic and she'd been gangraped twice, living on the
streets of South Beach andbeaten up three times by
teenagers who thought it washilarious to beat people up.
This is the world I mean.
I was just down in Nashvilleand you guys were interesting,
because your sheriff down therehas actually built a behavioral
(24:29):
health unit in the jail becausehe wants to help people, get
them restored before he sendsthem back.
Now that's a wonderful idea,but it also links in jail with
treatment and you shouldn't haveto go to jail to get treatment.
So that's the conundrum.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, unfortunately you are so correct there.
The only thing I can say aboutthat is at least you have
someone that's stepping up andtrying to at least help, Right?
The beauty of what he's doingis he's doing exactly opposite
of what we hear.
A lot that makes the daily news.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Well, you know the amount of money that we spend on
mental health is unbelievablewhen you see what kind of
reaction we get.
I focus on jails and prisonsand serious, serious mental
illness.
The problem is that with mentalillnesses it's kind of hard to
say, oh, this is a seriousmental illness and this is not.
(25:29):
For instance, schizophrenia isa serious mental illness, but if
you have a 15-year-old girlwho's cutting herself because
she's being bullied at school,that doesn't follow as a serious
mental illness.
But you may have a high suiciderate because of that.
One of my pet peeves is since myson he's been diagnosed as
(25:50):
bipolar disorder,schizoaffective disorder, early
onset schizophrenia.
The truth is we don't know,because there's no blood test,
there's no marker that you canidentify.
What you have to do on is yougo based on what that person
presents to you at the time andhow many boxes under bipolar do
(26:10):
they fit?
But the truth is, in my mindyour brain is so much more
complicated than that that it'sreally kind of a stewpot of both
emotions and heredity.
I mean.
The truth is we don't know.
We know that there's some kindof genetic component to
schizophrenia, but we don't knowwhy it emerges, when it does,
(26:30):
etc.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yes, there's definitely a lot more that we
need to learn.
What would you like to tell thelisteners that you think is
very important they hear aboutwhat you're doing?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Well, I think if you're a parent, what you need
to do is realize whether it'sautism or whether it's serious
mental illness.
This isn't going to go away.
I mean, when it first happensyou think, oh, this is just a
bump in the road and this isjust.
It happened in college andpeople have it.
No, if you have a seriousmental illness, it's a lifetime.
You got to educate yourself.
(27:01):
If you want to help your child,you really have to know.
In mental health, do we havecrisis intervention team, police
officers?
Do we have a jail diversionprogram?
Do we have judges who areinterested in getting people the
treatment rather than justpunishing them and getting them
stuck in a revolving door?
How do I access those services?
You need to educate yourself onall those things, including the
(27:25):
illness itself.
You know I talked to Tom Insell, who was the head of the
National Institutes of MentalHealth, and he said Pete, being
a parent is not helping you.
Being a partner is Don't arguewith your son.
You can't argue with.
I got to tell you this.
I can't tell you this story.
My son gets out and I know he'soff his meds.
(27:46):
So I think, well, I'm prettysmart.
You know, I've been to go intothese meetings.
I've talked to all theseexperts.
So I said to him look, let'slook on a legal pad, divide in
half.
This is when you're doing welland this is when you're not
doing well.
Oh look, when you're doing well, you're on your medication,
because medication helps you.
Well, I found out, you couldn'ttalk logic to someone who's not
(28:07):
thinking logical.
So then I said okay, kevin,I'll pay you 50 bucks a week,
take your meds in front of me.
And he looked at me and saiddad, I'm not a prostitute.
So that didn't go well.
So then I decided that I'dactually grind up his medication
and hide it in his breakfastcereal.
Well, what happened?
I discovered that hismedication floated all these
(28:30):
pink flakes and he got mad.
Then I said you know, look, allthese pink flakes.
And he got mad.
Then I said you know, look, Ihave the golden rule, I'm the
guy with the gold.
You want to live here, you haveto follow my rules.
You take your meds.
And of course he told me somewords you can't use on a podcast
, or shouldn't, and left thehouse and moved in with my
ex-wife.
So these are the kind of thingsthat weren't helpful, but
(28:55):
they're the natural things youdo as a parent.
The thing that saved my son wasnot me.
It was a caseworker, but it wasalso.
He woke up and he said I'm inhospital again.
I mean five hospitalizationsand being tasered.
Something's definitely wrong, Ihave to admit it.
It took him that long to admitit, because who wants to admit
(29:15):
you're crazy?
Nobody.
So he did that.
Then the doctor scared the hellout of him because he showed
him a brain scan and said you'rekilling parts of your brain.
Every time you have a breakdown, it begins with that person
wanting to change.
And, of course, the frustratingthing with autism and the
frustrating thing with mentalillness in many ways is the
(29:37):
person who needs to change oftenisn't aware they need to change
or they can't be.
There's a big argument madethat the first part of your
brain that goes bad is yourjudgment.
They're the ones with theproblem.
You're not.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, that's so true.
Well, this has been great,great conversation, tremendous
information.
I appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Tony, thank you so much.
I appreciate talking to you.
God bless you for what you'redoing.
Like I said, most people have adog in the fight.
Hopefully our paths will crossagain.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
It's been my pleasure .
Thanks again, pleasure.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking the time outof your busy schedule to listen
to our show today.
We hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as we enjoyed bringing it
to you.
If you know anyone that wouldlike to tell us their story,
(30:32):
send them to TonyMantorcomContact Then they can give us
their information so one daythey may be a guest on our show.
One more thing we ask Telleveryone everywhere about why
Not Me, the world, theconversations we're having and
(30:53):
the inspiration our guests giveto everyone everywhere that you
are not alone in this world.
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