April 16, 2025 • 25 mins
Bridget Hampstead shares her journey from discovering her own neurodivergence to founding Fish in a Tree, a virtual community center supporting neurodivergent adults.
Her work combines community building, political advocacy, and neuroaffirming practices to create spaces where late-diagnosed autistic individuals can find acceptance and belonging.
• Founded Fish in a Tree after realizing neurodivergent people lacked community support
• Pivoted from physical center to virtual programming, expanding reach nationwide
• Faced challenges with neurodiversity language acceptance in the Deep South
• Represented the US at UN's World Autism Awareness Day despite censorship
• Increasingly focused on political advocacy as disability rights face new threats
• Programming specifically resonates with late-diagnosed autistic women
• Writes daily on neurodivergent topics while seeking funding to address critical issues
Connect with Fish in a Tree at www.fishinatreeNOLA.org. You are so loved and a warm welcome awaits you at Fish in a Tree, where we see you, we get you, you are valid and you are the person of honor at our table.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to why Not Me , the World Podcast, hosted by
Tony Mantor, broadcasting fromMusic City, usa, nashville,
tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell ustheir stories.
Some will make you laugh, somewill make you cry.
Their stories Some will makeyou laugh, some will make you
(00:30):
cry.
Real life people who willinspire and show that you are
not alone in this world.
Hopefully, you gain moreawareness, acceptance and a
better understanding for autismaround the world.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
(00:53):
Welcome to why Not Me, theWorld.
Joining us today is BridgetHampstead, founding director of
Fish in a Tree, an organizationdedicated to supporting and
championing neurodiversity inNew Orleans and surrounding
areas.
Prior to Fish in a Tree, shewas awarded Activist of the Year
in 2023 and became USRepresentative to the UN for
(01:18):
World Autism Awareness Day 2024.
She possesses a wealth ofknowledge and we are honored to
have her on the show.
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, I'm happy to be here with you.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
So can you tell me, how did you get involved in what
you're doing now?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So I'm an ADHD person myself and just because of my
own neurodivergence and myexperience my kind of what I
thought was a very uniqueexperience of my neurodivergence
coming to learn is not sodifferent from other late
diagnosed autistic women.
(01:56):
What began me on that road?
And then I was working for abig name disability organization
spearheading a program that wastraining and educating autistic
youth in coding and computerlanguages, and then we were
finding them jobs in the techindustry and I was left to my
(02:20):
own devices to spearhead thatprogram, and so I set it up as a
neuroaffirming program and whatI found was that we could get
people trained and get them jobs, and that kind of wasn't an
issue.
The issue was them keeping thejobs once they got them, because
the companies that werereceiving them were not prepared
(02:42):
to accommodate them or tomanage them in a way that worked
for them.
You know, I was kind ofstruggling with how do we
prepare employers to take thesepeople on, and is what we're
doing ethical, like trainingpeople and finding them jobs
that they can't keep?
Is that useful to anyone at all?
(03:02):
And so I was really strugglingwith that, and I went to a
conference in Italy with mypartner and the conference
brought together indigenous andFirst Nations peoples from all
over the world and a lot of theconference was about food, food
(03:23):
ways and natural ways ofproducing food and cultural ties
to food and stuff, even thoughthat was kind of the topic of
the conference.
What ended up being the realtopic of the conference,
underlying everything thateverybody talked about, were
communities, these communal waysof mutual aid and taking care
(03:45):
of every member of the society,and people coming together to
help in one area because theyweren't able to do something in
a different area and that wasresponsibility of a different
group, and it was all aboutcommunity and celebrating
identity and authenticity andbeing a part of a community.
It really hit home for me and tosee all these people from all
(04:09):
over the world talking about theimportance of community and I
was really hit hard by the factthat, as a neurodivergent person
who was raised by people whotold me that was a shameful
secret and never to share thatwith anyone, I realized that I
had no community and that Isuspected that there were other
(04:32):
neurodivergent people out therewho also didn't have a community
and that's where the idea for avirtual neurodivergent
community center came from.
That was my takeaway from theconference was this idea of like
we have to do this and I don'tknow who's out there and I don't
know who this will resonatewith, but it just became this
(04:52):
thing that I had to do.
So when I came back from theconference, we founded Fish in a
Tree and I left my position atthe nonprofit to run Fish in a
Tree and it's really taken off.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
That's great.
Once you had it started, whatcame next?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
We started with a physical center here in New
Orleans.
We kind of found that mostpeople that were coming were
actually more interested invirtual options and so we
pivoted and we let go of thespace, the physical space.
We pivoted to have all of ourprogramming online and it
(05:32):
increased our reach.
So now we have people from allover the country and in some
cases some international people,who participate in all of our
programming.
That's grant funded, so it's atno cost to people and it's been
going really well.
It's been growing and we nowhave the blog, so there is an
advocacy piece to what we'redoing.
(05:52):
And then we also do consulting.
So we work with organizationsthat want to support
neurodivergent people.
We work with music venues andtheaters and festivals and
parades that want to accommodateneurodivergent people, and so
we do a lot of consulting work,which is kind of the yeah, not
the forward-facing part of theorganization, which is the
(06:15):
community center piece, but wedo a lot of that in the
background.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
When you started, what were some of the first
challenges you faced in gettingthis going?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, Well, one of the particular sort of
immediately apparent challengeswas that the language and the
ideas of the neurodiversitymovement and the neurodiversity
perspective have not quitetrickled down all the way to the
Deep South in New Orleans, andnot a lot of people use the
(06:57):
language of neurodiversity toidentify themselves, and not a
lot of autistic and ADHD anddyslexic adults are using
neurodivergent language tounderstand themselves, and so it
was hard to develop an audiencebecause of the language we were
using.
But I didn't want to compromiseon the language we were using
to describe ourselves, becausethat is what we are and what
(07:20):
we're influenced by and what weadhere to, and so I didn't want
to let go of that and I didn'tfeel comfortable using different
language that I didn't agreewith.
So we held on to that, and it'sbeen changing even over the
last three years.
A lot more people are coming orseeking us out using that kind
of language.
Another challenge was here inNew Orleans.
(07:44):
There are several organizationsthat serve autistic youth, and
not all of them areneuroaffirming organizations,
but there's a lot of stuff outthere and there are a lot of
resources good or bad or helpfulor unhelpful for very young
autistic people and theirneurotypical parents mostly, and
(08:08):
so that's what everybodyassumed that we did.
So we were lumped into you know,kind of like, oh well, you're
over there with the ABAproviders, and so it was really
a struggle to be like that's notwho we are and that's not what
we do.
We do have a couple of programsthat are for youths and
families, but most of our workfocuses around neurodivergent
(08:31):
adults from a neuroaffirmingperspective and approach.
We had to really fill that outa lot and we keep having to
explain that.
But it's been good.
The response when people hearthat and then they get it or it
spurs a discovery of their ownand then they come to us.
(08:52):
It's been good.
So there was a time wherethings didn't seem to be landing
, but this is our third year andthey seem to be hitting a lot
more with people.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
What were some of the things that you found that you
had to do so you could get theword out there, so people could
see the difference in whatothers do compared to what it is
that you do?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You know, we had to kind of let go of trying to
compare ourselves to whatexisted and trying to like make
that distinction for people.
That was originally how we wereapproaching it.
This is this and we are thisand we are different from this.
It almost sounded from a thirdparty as like a kind of
(09:40):
unnecessary conversation or likea petty conversation.
So we had to let that go andjust focus on explaining who we
were and what we did and how wewere informed by neuroaffirming
practices, and just let that sitwith people.
Because some of the people thatwe talked to in year one who
(10:01):
were like, no, that's not for meor no, I'm not, I don't
identify that way have come backin year two or year three and
said I heard more about thatfrom other sources or I went
into doing some research on myown, I've come to this on my own
and now I'm back.
So try to find our own way anddevelop our own brand and kind
(10:24):
of not really apologize for it.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Sure, now I've seen where you've done quite a few
things yourself.
I think I saw that you wasactivist of the year in 2023.
I see where you were involvedwith the UN last year.
Can you expand on what that wasabout?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I did Last year for Autism Acceptance Month, april,
and the day was April 2nd, Ibelieve.
The United Nations was havingan event, as they do every year
for autism acceptance, and I wasinvited as the United States
representative I was one of twoto talk about the state of the
(11:07):
autistic experience in thiscountry and to talk about the
very current issues affectingautistic people and how we need
to address those issues.
I was on a panel of otherrepresentatives from North
America and we were asked aheadof time some questions that
(11:31):
could have been.
The answers could have beenbooks.
It could have been a series ofbooks addressing just these very
, almost simple questions, andthen we had to reduce our
answers into like 20 secondresponses, which to write in a
concise way takes more time thanto write in a expanded way.
(11:53):
So I took a lot of time and careto craft my answers and I
addressed things like thepolicing of autistic people in
schools and issues facingautistic people in the current
political environment andeconomy and what's currently
going on for autistic people,and I enjoyed doing the work I
(12:17):
did.
When I watched it back when theUN was streaming it on their
platform, I did notice that Iwas edited.
They did take out some of thethings that I said.
There was a call my ownpersonal call to the United
States to abolish the practiceof ABA therapy in this country.
They took that out.
And then I also talked aboutautistic suicide, the prevalence
(12:42):
of autistic suicide and theimportance of addressing mental
health care and itsunderstanding of autism and its
approach towards autistic people, and that was also cut out.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
That's rather surprising.
That's a big issue.
Suicide is the second leadingcause of death among autistic
people around the world, so thatdoes kind of surprise me.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
I don't.
I'm not entirely sure of thereasons it was taken out and I
don't know if the United Nationsthemselves took it out or if
the third party between me andthe United Nations that was
putting the videos together tookit out.
But yeah, those were two of themost important things I had to
say and they were cut out.
Other things were left in thatI feel good about.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Well, that's good.
At least some positive came outof it.
Now, when you speak at a forumof that magnitude, it gives you
the opportunity to network.
Did you find yourself havingthe ability to network with
people that you just didn'trealize that you'd have the
chance to in any other situation?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Absolutely.
I still the panel of like sixpeople that I was on with and
the organizers of the panel andthe moderator of the panel and I
are in a group chat and havebeen for, you know, since last
year when we all got together tofilm the panel, and we still
(14:17):
talk to each other, you know,probably almost every day.
Hey, did you hear about this?
Hey, this is going on, hey,I've written this thing, what do
you think?
It's been a great sense ofcommunity for me to connect with
other neurodiversity advocates,kind of across the North
American continent.
It's been great and then it'salso brought me in contact with
a lot of people who you know sawthe stream and reached out to
(14:42):
connect and it's turned intosome great side projects and
definitely meeting some reallygood people.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Nice.
That's always great to meet newpeople and network so that you
can grow your initiatives ofwhat you're trying to do.
So what's next?
You've done all this advocacy.
You've started Fish in a Tree.
What's next on your agenda?
What do you see in your future?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
That's a great question.
I think when I was planning onwhat was next, it didn't occur
to me that the political climatewould change so drastically and
so quickly and be continuouslyevolving day by day in such an
extreme way.
So I'm really trying to at thistime so I'm really trying to at
this time, kind of look at whatmy goals were for this year
from last year and reassessthose based on what's really
(15:42):
affecting our community rightnow and what's really affecting
even my own family.
I have a fully neurodivergentand gender diverse family and a
lot of what's going on directlyimpacts members of my family and
myself, and so I'm reallythinking about and looking into
and connecting with people abouthow do we influence legislation
(16:07):
and how do we, how do we fightback and what do we need to do
politically.
So I wouldn't really say thatmy work was political.
I wouldn't have said that Pastme, wouldn't have said that my
work was political, but I'mlearning that just existing and
my family existing is politicalnow.
(16:27):
So definitely looking into howdo we influence legislation in a
real way and in an immediateway, so that, and then also, how
do we influence legislation ina real way and in an immediate
way so that.
And then also, how do we expandFish in a Tree thoughtfully to
reach more people that areresonating with the mission of
Fish in a Tree?
We're really noticing that thepeople that come to us, the vast
(16:52):
majority of them, are lateidentified, late diagnosed
autistic women as people thatread our website and want to
participate in programs and signup for things.
So we're really thinking aboutdo we double down on that and
start tailoring our programmingspecifically for that group, or
do we continue to grow indifferent directions, serve a
(17:15):
lot of different facets of theneurodiversity community?
So it's a lot to think aboutright now.
Currently, we're adding newprogramming monthly as we get
funding.
Evaluating our funding sourcesis now a huge thing that we have
to do.
So it's been crazy.
These last three weeks havereally kind of changed
everything for us, and we're,you know, trying to respond in
(17:39):
the immediacy of the moment, butit's definitely taken some
stepping away and somereflecting to get a handle on
what we need to be doing.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I noticed you write a lot of posts, a lot of articles
, a lot of blogs.
Is this something you write foryourself, or does this reflect
on Fish in a Tree and whatyou're trying to do there?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I write every day.
I write articles and expandedwritings on many topics that are
relevant to the autistic andneurodivergent community many
more than we are able toactively address in real time
with Fish in a Tree programming.
(18:23):
But as many articles as I writeand as many topics that I write
about behind the scenes I'mwriting just as many grant
applications to address thoseissues with the Chinatree's
programming.
So we are attempting to addresseverything I can find to talk
(18:44):
about.
But it takes a lot of manpowerof people who get it here
locally and, like I said, thoseideas haven't quite trickled
down here.
So finding people that reallyunderstand what we're doing and
what we're about to work closelywith has been not impossible,
but it has been a struggle.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
What are some of the things that you've encountered
that you're trying to work pastso you can get to a better
ending, to continue what you'retrying to do with your charity?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
It just takes time to train people and to educate
people and all that stuff.
So we're definitely trying toaddress things like the school
to prison pipeline for autistickids and autistic suicide and
suicidal ideation.
There's been talks of a hotlinefor Vishnitri to run for
(19:37):
autistic people specifically Allthese things.
There's talks, there's alwaysstuff in motion and we're doing
our absolute best to in realtime address these issues as
they come up or as we're madeaware of them.
But it takes a substantialamount of funding and finding
the right funders and gettingthe funding and having the
people to execute the program.
(19:58):
So we're still pretty tiny inthat regard.
Our staff is small and they allwork remotely.
So you know, we're still tryingto figure all that out.
But you know, if anyonelistening, you know, is
interested in any of this kindof programming and wants to talk
about collaboration, we're verycollaborative, we're very open
(20:20):
to working with partners.
We just want to provide thebest resources and the best
programming we can to ouraudience.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, I think that's the best way you can do it.
Keep working every daydiligently, step by step.
Then, after a period of time,you look back and you'll see a
good body of work that you'vecreated.
The best fact you're helpingpeople.
What would you tell ourlisteners that they need to hear
and understand about whatyou're doing and how you're
(20:51):
trying to help people with yourprograms and?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
how you're trying to help people with your programs.
I think that our programmingand all of the articles that go
into the blog and my writingsthat go out into the world
through other publications, allof those offerings are my love
letter to the neurodivergentcommunity everywhere in this
(21:16):
country, especially If I couldaddress the neurodivergent
community in this country rightnow.
There's a lot going on thatdirectly affects us.
There's a threat to 504.
There's a threat to disabilityrights.
There's a threat to disabilityunder civil rights.
If I could rally everyone toparticipate in local and
(21:39):
national politics and toinfluence legislation where
possible, I would definitely putthat call out.
But as far as Fish in a Treeand our offerings, I would just
like to extend an invitation topeople to look into what we're
doing and to see if any of itresonates with them personally.
(22:00):
The more demand we have for ourprogramming and the more
interest we have, the more we'reable to do A lot of things that
we want to do.
That we can't do is because wedon't have an audience yet.
We don't have a big enough poolof potential participants.
Check out the website.
It's wwwfishinatreenolaorg.
(22:22):
Connect with us, send us anemail, let us know what you're
interested in what you'd like tosee.
We respond to every email thatwe get.
I would just like to say thatyou are so loved.
You are so loved and a warmwelcome awaits you at Vishnu
(22:44):
Tree, where we see you, we getyou, you are valid and you are
the person of honor at our table.
Autistic people andneurodivergent people, you know,
are often met withstigmatization and often met
(23:05):
with suspicion, you know, forvarious reasons, and often met
with this idea that they'resomehow undesirable or unworthy,
and we want to combat that withradical love and acceptance,
which sounds easy and maybe alittle hippy-dippy, but it's not
(23:27):
easy and it's so necessary,especially with everything going
on right now all around us.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, I think that's a great message.
The only thing that we can donow is have some hope, help each
other out and do our best to bekind.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I think the best thing people can do right now is
to stay healthy and to bejoyous.
As long as you have joy in yourlife, that's the best way to
live.
That's the best revenge is tolive well.
And the best way to combat allof this is to exist in an
authentic way.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Absolutely Great comments.
This has been a greatconversation, great information.
I really appreciate you comingon the show.
Great information, I reallyappreciate you coming on the
show it was a pleasure meetingyou yes, it's been my pleasure.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking the time outof your busy schedule to listen
(24:27):
to our show today.
We hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as we enjoyed bringing it
to you.
If you know anyone that wouldlike to tell us their story,
send them to TonyMantorcomContact then they can give us
their information so one daythey may be a guest on our show.
(24:49):
One more thing we ask telleveryone everywhere about why
Not Me, the World, theconversations we're having and
the inspiration our guests giveto everyone everywhere that you
are not alone in this world.
Welcome to why Not Me , the World Podcast, hosted by
Tony Mantor, broadcasting fromMusic City, usa, nashville,
tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell ustheir stories.
Some will make you laugh, somewill make you cry.
Their stories Some will makeyou laugh, some will make you
(00:30):
cry.
Real life people who willinspire and show that you are
not alone in this world.
Hopefully, you gain moreawareness, acceptance and a
better understanding for autismaround the world.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
(00:53):
Welcome to why Not Me, theWorld.
Joining us today is BridgetHampstead, founding director of
Fish in a Tree, an organizationdedicated to supporting and
championing neurodiversity inNew Orleans and surrounding
areas.
Prior to Fish in a Tree, shewas awarded Activist of the Year
in 2023 and became USRepresentative to the UN for
(01:18):
World Autism Awareness Day 2024.
She possesses a wealth ofknowledge and we are honored to
have her on the show.
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, I'm happy to be here with you.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
So can you tell me, how did you get involved in what
you're doing now?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So I'm an ADHD person myself and just because of my
own neurodivergence and myexperience my kind of what I
thought was a very uniqueexperience of my neurodivergence
coming to learn is not sodifferent from other late
diagnosed autistic women.
(01:56):
What began me on that road?
And then I was working for abig name disability organization
spearheading a program that wastraining and educating autistic
youth in coding and computerlanguages, and then we were
finding them jobs in the techindustry and I was left to my
(02:20):
own devices to spearhead thatprogram, and so I set it up as a
neuroaffirming program and whatI found was that we could get
people trained and get them jobs, and that kind of wasn't an
issue.
The issue was them keeping thejobs once they got them, because
the companies that werereceiving them were not prepared
(02:42):
to accommodate them or tomanage them in a way that worked
for them.
You know, I was kind ofstruggling with how do we
prepare employers to take thesepeople on, and is what we're
doing ethical, like trainingpeople and finding them jobs
that they can't keep?
Is that useful to anyone at all?
(03:02):
And so I was really strugglingwith that, and I went to a
conference in Italy with mypartner and the conference
brought together indigenous andFirst Nations peoples from all
over the world and a lot of theconference was about food, food
(03:23):
ways and natural ways ofproducing food and cultural ties
to food and stuff, even thoughthat was kind of the topic of
the conference.
What ended up being the realtopic of the conference,
underlying everything thateverybody talked about, were
communities, these communal waysof mutual aid and taking care
(03:45):
of every member of the society,and people coming together to
help in one area because theyweren't able to do something in
a different area and that wasresponsibility of a different
group, and it was all aboutcommunity and celebrating
identity and authenticity andbeing a part of a community.
It really hit home for me and tosee all these people from all
(04:09):
over the world talking about theimportance of community and I
was really hit hard by the factthat, as a neurodivergent person
who was raised by people whotold me that was a shameful
secret and never to share thatwith anyone, I realized that I
had no community and that Isuspected that there were other
(04:32):
neurodivergent people out therewho also didn't have a community
and that's where the idea for avirtual neurodivergent
community center came from.
That was my takeaway from theconference was this idea of like
we have to do this and I don'tknow who's out there and I don't
know who this will resonatewith, but it just became this
(04:52):
thing that I had to do.
So when I came back from theconference, we founded Fish in a
Tree and I left my position atthe nonprofit to run Fish in a
Tree and it's really taken off.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
That's great.
Once you had it started, whatcame next?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
We started with a physical center here in New
Orleans.
We kind of found that mostpeople that were coming were
actually more interested invirtual options and so we
pivoted and we let go of thespace, the physical space.
We pivoted to have all of ourprogramming online and it
(05:32):
increased our reach.
So now we have people from allover the country and in some
cases some international people,who participate in all of our
programming.
That's grant funded, so it's atno cost to people and it's been
going really well.
It's been growing and we nowhave the blog, so there is an
advocacy piece to what we'redoing.
(05:52):
And then we also do consulting.
So we work with organizationsthat want to support
neurodivergent people.
We work with music venues andtheaters and festivals and
parades that want to accommodateneurodivergent people, and so
we do a lot of consulting work,which is kind of the yeah, not
the forward-facing part of theorganization, which is the
(06:15):
community center piece, but wedo a lot of that in the
background.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
When you started, what were some of the first
challenges you faced in gettingthis going?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, Well, one of the particular sort of
immediately apparent challengeswas that the language and the
ideas of the neurodiversitymovement and the neurodiversity
perspective have not quitetrickled down all the way to the
Deep South in New Orleans, andnot a lot of people use the
(06:57):
language of neurodiversity toidentify themselves, and not a
lot of autistic and ADHD anddyslexic adults are using
neurodivergent language tounderstand themselves, and so it
was hard to develop an audiencebecause of the language we were
using.
But I didn't want to compromiseon the language we were using
to describe ourselves, becausethat is what we are and what
(07:20):
we're influenced by and what weadhere to, and so I didn't want
to let go of that and I didn'tfeel comfortable using different
language that I didn't agreewith.
So we held on to that, and it'sbeen changing even over the
last three years.
A lot more people are coming orseeking us out using that kind
of language.
Another challenge was here inNew Orleans.
(07:44):
There are several organizationsthat serve autistic youth, and
not all of them areneuroaffirming organizations,
but there's a lot of stuff outthere and there are a lot of
resources good or bad or helpfulor unhelpful for very young
autistic people and theirneurotypical parents mostly, and
(08:08):
so that's what everybodyassumed that we did.
So we were lumped into you know,kind of like, oh well, you're
over there with the ABAproviders, and so it was really
a struggle to be like that's notwho we are and that's not what
we do.
We do have a couple of programsthat are for youths and
families, but most of our workfocuses around neurodivergent
(08:31):
adults from a neuroaffirmingperspective and approach.
We had to really fill that outa lot and we keep having to
explain that.
But it's been good.
The response when people hearthat and then they get it or it
spurs a discovery of their ownand then they come to us.
(08:52):
It's been good.
So there was a time wherethings didn't seem to be landing
, but this is our third year andthey seem to be hitting a lot
more with people.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
What were some of the things that you found that you
had to do so you could get theword out there, so people could
see the difference in whatothers do compared to what it is
that you do?
Speaker 2 (09:20):
You know, we had to kind of let go of trying to
compare ourselves to whatexisted and trying to like make
that distinction for people.
That was originally how we wereapproaching it.
This is this and we are thisand we are different from this.
It almost sounded from a thirdparty as like a kind of
(09:40):
unnecessary conversation or likea petty conversation.
So we had to let that go andjust focus on explaining who we
were and what we did and how wewere informed by neuroaffirming
practices, and just let that sitwith people.
Because some of the people thatwe talked to in year one who
(10:01):
were like, no, that's not for meor no, I'm not, I don't
identify that way have come backin year two or year three and
said I heard more about thatfrom other sources or I went
into doing some research on myown, I've come to this on my own
and now I'm back.
So try to find our own way anddevelop our own brand and kind
(10:24):
of not really apologize for it.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Sure, now I've seen where you've done quite a few
things yourself.
I think I saw that you wasactivist of the year in 2023.
I see where you were involvedwith the UN last year.
Can you expand on what that wasabout?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I did Last year for Autism Acceptance Month, april,
and the day was April 2nd, Ibelieve.
The United Nations was havingan event, as they do every year
for autism acceptance, and I wasinvited as the United States
representative I was one of twoto talk about the state of the
(11:07):
autistic experience in thiscountry and to talk about the
very current issues affectingautistic people and how we need
to address those issues.
I was on a panel of otherrepresentatives from North
America and we were asked aheadof time some questions that
(11:31):
could have been.
The answers could have beenbooks.
It could have been a series ofbooks addressing just these very
, almost simple questions, andthen we had to reduce our
answers into like 20 secondresponses, which to write in a
concise way takes more time thanto write in a expanded way.
(11:53):
So I took a lot of time and careto craft my answers and I
addressed things like thepolicing of autistic people in
schools and issues facingautistic people in the current
political environment andeconomy and what's currently
going on for autistic people,and I enjoyed doing the work I
(12:17):
did.
When I watched it back when theUN was streaming it on their
platform, I did notice that Iwas edited.
They did take out some of thethings that I said.
There was a call my ownpersonal call to the United
States to abolish the practiceof ABA therapy in this country.
They took that out.
And then I also talked aboutautistic suicide, the prevalence
(12:42):
of autistic suicide and theimportance of addressing mental
health care and itsunderstanding of autism and its
approach towards autistic people, and that was also cut out.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
That's rather surprising.
That's a big issue.
Suicide is the second leadingcause of death among autistic
people around the world, so thatdoes kind of surprise me.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
I don't.
I'm not entirely sure of thereasons it was taken out and I
don't know if the United Nationsthemselves took it out or if
the third party between me andthe United Nations that was
putting the videos together tookit out.
But yeah, those were two of themost important things I had to
say and they were cut out.
Other things were left in thatI feel good about.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Well, that's good.
At least some positive came outof it.
Now, when you speak at a forumof that magnitude, it gives you
the opportunity to network.
Did you find yourself havingthe ability to network with
people that you just didn'trealize that you'd have the
chance to in any other situation?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Absolutely.
I still the panel of like sixpeople that I was on with and
the organizers of the panel andthe moderator of the panel and I
are in a group chat and havebeen for, you know, since last
year when we all got together tofilm the panel, and we still
(14:17):
talk to each other, you know,probably almost every day.
Hey, did you hear about this?
Hey, this is going on, hey,I've written this thing, what do
you think?
It's been a great sense ofcommunity for me to connect with
other neurodiversity advocates,kind of across the North
American continent.
It's been great and then it'salso brought me in contact with
a lot of people who you know sawthe stream and reached out to
(14:42):
connect and it's turned intosome great side projects and
definitely meeting some reallygood people.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Nice.
That's always great to meet newpeople and network so that you
can grow your initiatives ofwhat you're trying to do.
So what's next?
You've done all this advocacy.
You've started Fish in a Tree.
What's next on your agenda?
What do you see in your future?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
That's a great question.
I think when I was planning onwhat was next, it didn't occur
to me that the political climatewould change so drastically and
so quickly and be continuouslyevolving day by day in such an
extreme way.
So I'm really trying to at thistime so I'm really trying to at
this time, kind of look at whatmy goals were for this year
from last year and reassessthose based on what's really
(15:42):
affecting our community rightnow and what's really affecting
even my own family.
I have a fully neurodivergentand gender diverse family and a
lot of what's going on directlyimpacts members of my family and
myself, and so I'm reallythinking about and looking into
and connecting with people abouthow do we influence legislation
(16:07):
and how do we, how do we fightback and what do we need to do
politically.
So I wouldn't really say thatmy work was political.
I wouldn't have said that Pastme, wouldn't have said that my
work was political, but I'mlearning that just existing and
my family existing is politicalnow.
(16:27):
So definitely looking into howdo we influence legislation in a
real way and in an immediateway, so that, and then also, how
do we influence legislation ina real way and in an immediate
way so that.
And then also, how do we expandFish in a Tree thoughtfully to
reach more people that areresonating with the mission of
Fish in a Tree?
We're really noticing that thepeople that come to us, the vast
(16:52):
majority of them, are lateidentified, late diagnosed
autistic women as people thatread our website and want to
participate in programs and signup for things.
So we're really thinking aboutdo we double down on that and
start tailoring our programmingspecifically for that group, or
do we continue to grow indifferent directions, serve a
(17:15):
lot of different facets of theneurodiversity community?
So it's a lot to think aboutright now.
Currently, we're adding newprogramming monthly as we get
funding.
Evaluating our funding sourcesis now a huge thing that we have
to do.
So it's been crazy.
These last three weeks havereally kind of changed
everything for us, and we're,you know, trying to respond in
(17:39):
the immediacy of the moment, butit's definitely taken some
stepping away and somereflecting to get a handle on
what we need to be doing.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
I noticed you write a lot of posts, a lot of articles
, a lot of blogs.
Is this something you write foryourself, or does this reflect
on Fish in a Tree and whatyou're trying to do there?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
I write every day.
I write articles and expandedwritings on many topics that are
relevant to the autistic andneurodivergent community many
more than we are able toactively address in real time
with Fish in a Tree programming.
(18:23):
But as many articles as I writeand as many topics that I write
about behind the scenes I'mwriting just as many grant
applications to address thoseissues with the Chinatree's
programming.
So we are attempting to addresseverything I can find to talk
(18:44):
about.
But it takes a lot of manpowerof people who get it here
locally and, like I said, thoseideas haven't quite trickled
down here.
So finding people that reallyunderstand what we're doing and
what we're about to work closelywith has been not impossible,
but it has been a struggle.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
What are some of the things that you've encountered
that you're trying to work pastso you can get to a better
ending, to continue what you'retrying to do with your charity?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
It just takes time to train people and to educate
people and all that stuff.
So we're definitely trying toaddress things like the school
to prison pipeline for autistickids and autistic suicide and
suicidal ideation.
There's been talks of a hotlinefor Vishnitri to run for
(19:37):
autistic people specifically Allthese things.
There's talks, there's alwaysstuff in motion and we're doing
our absolute best to in realtime address these issues as
they come up or as we're madeaware of them.
But it takes a substantialamount of funding and finding
the right funders and gettingthe funding and having the
people to execute the program.
(19:58):
So we're still pretty tiny inthat regard.
Our staff is small and they allwork remotely.
So you know, we're still tryingto figure all that out.
But you know, if anyonelistening, you know, is
interested in any of this kindof programming and wants to talk
about collaboration, we're verycollaborative, we're very open
(20:20):
to working with partners.
We just want to provide thebest resources and the best
programming we can to ouraudience.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, I think that's the best way you can do it.
Keep working every daydiligently, step by step.
Then, after a period of time,you look back and you'll see a
good body of work that you'vecreated.
The best fact you're helpingpeople.
What would you tell ourlisteners that they need to hear
and understand about whatyou're doing and how you're
(20:51):
trying to help people with yourprograms and?
Speaker 2 (20:55):
how you're trying to help people with your programs.
I think that our programmingand all of the articles that go
into the blog and my writingsthat go out into the world
through other publications, allof those offerings are my love
letter to the neurodivergentcommunity everywhere in this
(21:16):
country, especially If I couldaddress the neurodivergent
community in this country rightnow.
There's a lot going on thatdirectly affects us.
There's a threat to 504.
There's a threat to disabilityrights.
There's a threat to disabilityunder civil rights.
If I could rally everyone toparticipate in local and
(21:39):
national politics and toinfluence legislation where
possible, I would definitely putthat call out.
But as far as Fish in a Treeand our offerings, I would just
like to extend an invitation topeople to look into what we're
doing and to see if any of itresonates with them personally.
(22:00):
The more demand we have for ourprogramming and the more
interest we have, the more we'reable to do A lot of things that
we want to do.
That we can't do is because wedon't have an audience yet.
We don't have a big enough poolof potential participants.
Check out the website.
It's wwwfishinatreenolaorg.
(22:22):
Connect with us, send us anemail, let us know what you're
interested in what you'd like tosee.
We respond to every email thatwe get.
I would just like to say thatyou are so loved.
You are so loved and a warmwelcome awaits you at Vishnu
(22:44):
Tree, where we see you, we getyou, you are valid and you are
the person of honor at our table.
Autistic people andneurodivergent people, you know,
are often met withstigmatization and often met
(23:05):
with suspicion, you know, forvarious reasons, and often met
with this idea that they'resomehow undesirable or unworthy,
and we want to combat that withradical love and acceptance,
which sounds easy and maybe alittle hippy-dippy, but it's not
(23:27):
easy and it's so necessary,especially with everything going
on right now all around us.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, I think that's a great message.
The only thing that we can donow is have some hope, help each
other out and do our best to bekind.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
I think the best thing people can do right now is
to stay healthy and to bejoyous.
As long as you have joy in yourlife, that's the best way to
live.
That's the best revenge is tolive well.
And the best way to combat allof this is to exist in an
authentic way.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Absolutely Great comments.
This has been a greatconversation, great information.
I really appreciate you comingon the show.
Great information, I reallyappreciate you coming on the
show it was a pleasure meetingyou yes, it's been my pleasure.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking the time outof your busy schedule to listen
(24:27):
to our show today.
We hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as we enjoyed bringing it
to you.
If you know anyone that wouldlike to tell us their story,
send them to TonyMantorcomContact then they can give us
their information so one daythey may be a guest on our show.
(24:49):
One more thing we ask telleveryone everywhere about why
Not Me, the World, theconversations we're having and
the inspiration our guests giveto everyone everywhere that you
are not alone in this world.
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