April 12, 2025 • 27 mins
Joan Lipinski shares her deeply personal journey fighting for her daughter with Asperger's syndrome who received a 63-month federal prison sentence after being manipulated into bringing contraband into a facility where she worked.
Through multiple prison transfers, denied medical care following back surgery, and judicial misunderstanding of autism, Joan has become a determined advocate battling against a system that fails to accommodate neurodiversity.
• Joan's daughter was manipulated by an inmate professing love to bring in a package with unknown contents
• Judge acknowledged her autism but wanted to "make an example" of her to other prison workers
• After sentencing, she endured a harrowing four-month journey through five different facilities
• Basic necessities like underwear, socks, and pain medication were withheld for weeks
• Her compassionate release was denied when the judge claimed "her autism was overstated"
• Joan traveled to Washington DC to meet with senators and representatives
• She successfully met with Senator Cruz's staff and personally with Senator Greg Stubbe
• Clemency paperwork has been filed as the next step in seeking her daughter's release
• Other inmates don't understand her daughter's autistic behaviors, putting her at risk
• Joan flies to Texas three times monthly to provide brief respite from the prison environment
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to why Not Me ?
The World Podcast, hosted byTony Mantor, broadcasting from
Music City, usa, nashville,tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell ustheir stories.
Some will make you laugh, somewill make you cry.
Their stories Some will makeyou laugh, some will make you
(00:30):
cry.
Real life people who willinspire and show that you are
not alone in this world.
Hopefully, you gain moreawareness, acceptance and a
better understanding for autismaround the world.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
(00:52):
Welcome to why Not Me?
The World Humanity OverHandcuffs the Silent Crisis
special event.
Joining us today is JoanLipinski, who has graciously
agreed to share her deeplypersonal and inspiring story to
navigate the complexities of thelegal system on behalf of her
daughter, a journey that led herall the way to the halls of
(01:15):
power in Washington DC, whereshe courageously advocated for
change.
The challenges she faced havebeen formidable, forging a path
marked by resilience anddetermination.
Through it all, she's gainedinvaluable wisdom and
perspective, making herextraordinary voice in this
conversation.
Truly grateful to have her herewith us today.
(01:38):
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Oh, it's my pleasure Now if you would give us a
little update on your daughterand her journey that she faced
with the legal system.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So initially, when she had her sentencing, it was
three years after her firstarrest that they actually did
the sentencing and then, uponsentencing, they actually
remanded her on the spot, whichis not what was supposed to
happen.
She was supposed to self-report, but at the end of the
sentencing his comments were Iwould love to have her as my
(02:13):
neighbor.
I know that she was manipulatedinto doing this, but I need to
make an example of her to othernurses and janitors that work in
a prison that you can't do this.
So, and what happened in mydaughter's case was she was
manipulated by inmates where shewas working to bring a package
in that she had no idea what wasin the package, where she would
(02:36):
have never taken it in.
This one inmate was professinghis love for her and totally
used her and befriended her and,you know, built her up and told
him he would take care of herand she just needed to do this
for him.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So can you explain?
Was she in jail for three yearsbefore she got the verdict?
How did this three-year periodcome about?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
No, she was at home on probation pre-trial probation
for three years till she gotsentenced.
We were waiting for asentencing date.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So it took three years from the time that she was
arrested until she finally gotthe verdict.
That took three years to dothis.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yes, and it was almost exactly three years.
It was April 2nd of 2021, andit was April 5th of 2024.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
When the sentencing occurred.
I believe you said the judgemade a notable remark concerning
autism.
Can you provide more detailsabout what was said?
Additionally, can you elaborateon her journey after the
conviction was finalized and thechallenges she faced along the
way to her final destination?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
So at the sentencing he was like you know, it was
stated that you know, peoplewith autism don't do well in
prison, you know.
And she had just had major backsurgery too on top of it and
was supposed to let her see herneurosurgeon before she was, you
know, taken into prison.
But anyway, they didn't let herdo that, they took her on the
spot, and so the journey was sheended up going to a local jail.
(04:11):
She was there for three months,so she was supposed to get
medical help and counseling, butthey put her in a county jail
for three months with notreatment.
And then they moved her to aprivate facility for eight days
and there was no medications,food was scarce and they made
her sign paperwork that wasn'teven hers, but she would have
(04:34):
died there if she didn't.
And then from there they finallysent her to Tallahassee, where
she was there for one day, butthey took her back brace away at
that point and she was not evena little bit healed from her
surgery.
And then they put her on ajourney on a bus and then on two
planes and then on another bus,and then she was taken to
(04:55):
Oklahoma to a transfer facilityand was there for 10 days, and
then, finally, she was put on abus and was taken to her
destination, which was CarswellFederal Medical Center, and it's
the only female medical prisonthat we have.
So that was where she wassupposed to go, but it took four
months and five prisons to getthere, and it was a very arduous
(05:18):
, physically and mentallydraining journey.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Wow, that's an immense physical and emotional
toll she endured throughout thisordeal.
It's hard to imagine thestrength that she had to summon
just to get through this, Givenher medical needs and challenges
she faces.
I think you mentioned thepossibility of getting a
compassionate release.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So after she got there we were going to file for
compassionate release because ofthe horrible treatment I mean
she almost died a couple timesand mentally she just was, you
know about, out of her mind.
So when they filed thecompassionate release in the end
which took a couple months todo the judge, there was over 500
(06:05):
pages sent with a compassionaterelease of medical records and
requests and what had happenedin the previous prisons and she
hadn't gotten any medicaltreatment for her back or her
heart or anything.
I don't think the judge readany of it and his comment was
that her autism, which wasAsperger's that was her
(06:26):
diagnosis, was Asperger's wasoverstated at sentencing and all
prisoners have medical issues.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Well, that's sad to hear that the judge dismissed
her compassionate relief request.
His remark that her Asperger'sdiagnosis was overstated and
that all prisoners have medicalissues feels dismissive of her
unique struggles, adding insultto an already painful situation.
Now, how did you feelwitnessing this response from
(06:55):
the judge, knowing the extent ofyour daughter's suffering?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, that was like stabbing me right in the heart.
No, the autism is what got herin there.
And then no treatment, formedical was what was putting her
in so much pain and she'sdisabled now she can barely walk
, she's in constant pain.
She's still.
It's a year later and we stillhaven't seen a neurosurgeon or a
back doctor of any kind.
(07:21):
And she had one day of physicaltherapy 11 months after her
surgery and her neurosurgeon'snever seen what he did if
everything turned out the way itwas supposed to.
But in the meantime there hasbeen no counseling of any kind,
no medical treatment.
So that started my journey ofwell, my journey started back in
(07:42):
the county jail, taking hermedications away, you know,
giving someone who just hadmajor back surgery on a one-inch
cot with no pillows, noblankets, you know, sleeping
pretty much on metal, which washard.
And then, which still is thecase now, or a year later, she's
got a thicker mattress and shedoes have a pillow, but she's
(08:03):
had no treatment.
So I started being vocal withthe health services, people,
lieutenants in the prison,fighting for just simple things
like underwear and socks.
For four weeks she had nounderwear and no socks, and it
was being a female.
It was very, very difficult atthe time of the month when you
really need that, and I beggedand pleaded for underwear and
(08:27):
socks and four weeks.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So who did you go to for the simple things like that?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I went to the head lieutenant under the warden of
the jail and I also went to thehealth services administrator
who was to make sure she wasgetting the medications she
should be getting.
And I was making those phonecalls at least once a day,
sometimes twice a day, and I wasjust begging and pleading.
(08:54):
I drove to the jail and tooksocks but you're not allowed to
give anything.
And I argued because I gavethem the list of the medications
she was on.
I said the most important thingshe needs right now is Tylenol,
because she just had thissurgery.
They took her off the hardcoredrugs for the pain and for five
days she had no Tylenol.
(09:15):
She had no pain medication ofany kind, no treatment, no pain
medication, sleeping pretty muchon metal, no pillow.
I mean she was in agony.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
What was their response when you brought things
up that she needed?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Oh, we'll check on her.
We'll check on her.
And next thing I know, 10 dayslater they threw her in solitary
.
I couldn't find her.
I thought she was on her way tofederal, you know, because they
said she probably wouldn't bethere very long.
So I'm thinking she's on herway to a federal prison and I
happen to have a video scheduledwith her because there's no
visitation there.
(09:48):
But I happen to have a videoand I thought I'm going to stay
on this video and see whathappens.
She came on the video and wasstill there and told me they
threw her in solitaryconfinement and she wasn't
allowed out, she couldn't makephone calls, she wasn't getting
her medications and nobody, andI was on the phone a lot.
Then I'm like are you trying tokill her, you know?
(10:11):
And they're like well, we don'tknow why she was put in there.
And I said, well, somebodyneeds to find out what she's
doing in there.
Because they said she's goingout of her mind.
You know, it's feces infested,it's cockroach infested.
And I said she can't call me.
He goes well, there's a phonethere.
I go yeah, there's a brokenphone that an inmate pulled off
the wall because they got mad.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
So there's no phone.
So what happened after all ofthat?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So finally there was no explanation as to why she was
put in solitary and that justabout made her crazy.
And finally psychiatry gotinvolved.
Crazy, and finally psychiatrygot involved and finally after
two months she got some anxietymedicine that helped finally
calm her down.
So then she started thisjourney, but with autism these
(10:58):
journeys are very difficult andneed change.
And plus, she had been changedfrom unit to unit to unit to
unit, wasn't allowed outside,never saw daylight, had no
exercise for four months whenshe started this whole journey,
and here she's had back surgery.
So when they put her in a carshe could barely get in the car,
and then when they went to puther on a plane, she could hardly
(11:20):
get up the steps, shackled andchained, you know, and on heart
medicine on top of it.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So where is she now?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
She is at Federal Medical Center in Carswell and
that's, I mean, that's herdestination for now.
But when she got to Carswellthey had no medical records on
her and didn't know what she wasdoing there.
So once again, so here I am,I'm calling.
This is when I really startedcalling on senators and people.
(11:48):
I'm like I need help.
I was working with Walt withPrisonology.
I'm like what do we do?
I had attorneys.
I'm like we've got to get intouch with somebody.
She needs help.
They don't even know what she'sdoing there.
They put her in camp clothes,put her in medical clothes, put
her back in camp clothes, puther in medical clothes, all the
while hauling mattresses andstuff.
(12:10):
She was fit to be tied and Ithought her first day there she
was not going to make it throughthe night.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Now this whole process we've been talking about
is over the last year.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
We're now at a year.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Okay, and there was three years before that, so how
long is her sentence that'sremaining?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
63 months, five years and three months.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
So what about the first three years that went by?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Don't count, they're nothing.
No, because she was at home.
They don't count for anything.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So now she's been in there a year.
Technically she has four more.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Okay, so what are you doing now?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So what I'm doing right now is, especially after
they denied the compassionaterelease which everybody,
everybody was thinking sheshould be able to get that with
her medical condition, the wayshe's been treated, the mental
aspect of it, you know.
And the judge said we want herin a medical facility where she
gets care.
Well, okay, so four months wentby, we had no care, no medical
(13:11):
facility.
So we thought that would bereason for him to grant the
compassionate release, plus theautism.
And then, like I said, hisstatement was well, her autism
was overstated and all prisonershave medical issues.
Well, not all prisoners havemajor back surgery, heart
conditions and don't get treatedfor any of it.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
And get moved to five prisons in four months.
That's not a normal journey.
So, anyways, the more she'sthere and she keeps in touch
with me and I just find outwhat's going on, and so I'm like
I have to do everything I canin my power to try and get her
out.
So the next step is clemency,and we just filed clemency
(13:52):
paperwork.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Okay, so in trying to get clemency, what are the
steps you had to take to getthis started?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
So you go online and you pull the form off online.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And you fill it out.
But then I was able to getanother attorney to help me with
clemency.
He goes we need to add more tothe clemency form.
It's an 11-page form.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
All right.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
It's really her statement of what happened,
what's happened in her life,what's going on, what is she
participating in, what does shewant to do in the future.
And then I put a statement withit, and then I had an attorney
and he and I believe he's onyour podcast, Ed Passon- yes,
he's been on Very good episode.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
How did he help you?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
He actually did the clemency form for me and he made
it her story.
He told her story of going fromlike high school, you know,
through college, and keeping itsimple and then what happened,
you know, and how she got intothis and how this affected her
life.
I wanted to hand deliver thisto Washington was my goal, so
(14:57):
that's where that went.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Okay, so once you did get to clemency papers filled
out, was you able to get them toDC?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Well, right before they got filled out, I heard
from the one House ofRepresentatives person that I
knew.
He said you cannot hand deliverpaperwork, it must go through
email.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It has to be.
It has to go to that address.
That's on the paperwork.
You cannot bring it here and wecan't hand walk it over,
because that was my intention.
I wanted to hand walk it overto the Office of Pardon.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Well, that's unfortunate that you actually
couldn't take it over there inperson.
I always thought handdelivering it sometimes would
make a difference.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I was really let down about that.
But we went ahead and filed itonline and I made copies of it
and I said to myself I'm stillgoing to Washington.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Good for you.
What were your plans?
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I'm going to go and I'm going to carry my papers,
I'm going to put them in frontof people and I'm going to talk
about this issue.
I'm going to talk about theinhumanity that they face in the
prisons right now.
It's understaffing nomedications, they're hungry,
there's not much food, there'sbeen no commissary.
They put people on lockdown.
(16:08):
The inhumane treatment isunreal and Michelle, being a
nurse by trade, she has to seepeople who've lost their legs,
they've lost limbs.
You know they're sick, theyfaint, they have seizures.
She can't help them and she'sin a high, she's in a maximum
security facility because it'smedical.
(16:28):
So she's in with white collarcrime, she's in with minimum
offense, first offenders andshe's also in with murderers.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So your next step was Washington DC.
How did it go when you went upthere?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yes, so I went to Washington last week and I took
a whole packet with me.
I put an agenda together.
I had a meeting with SenatorCruz's office.
I went to his office.
I couldn't get a personal visitwith him but I was able to go
to a coffee that he had wherehis staff was there and I did
get to meet him.
So I got to sit down with hisstaff and I had my packet of her
(17:06):
clemency paperwork and what'shappening and just a brief
description of why I was thereand I was fighting for her life.
I'm fighting for her being nowbeing disabled.
I'm fighting for prisonerrights because they don't
understand how bad things are inthere.
We've got no leader right nowof the BOP.
(17:26):
A lot of the wardens haveresigned, the leadership is
lacking and the treatment withinthe facility is just inhumane.
So I got to sit down and reallyhave a long talk with his
legislative aide and he was likeI really appreciate you letting
me know this.
He said I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
So do you think that the time that you spent up there
was productive and did you walkaway happy with it?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I think, if you take any message away from this at
all, they are involved in somany different things that if
you have 10 people that go andtalk to the same person about
the same issues, that's whereyou start having an impact.
And when you start having morepeople, like a hundred people or
a thousand people that arecomplaining about the same thing
, then you get.
(18:14):
You start getting people's ears.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Right, that makes a tremendous amount of sense.
So you got to see Senator Cruzand talk with some of his people
.
Did you get a chance to seeanyone else?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Well then I went from Senator Cruz's office, I went
to Rick Scott's office SenatorRick Scott's office and dropped
the packet off there, because Ihad been in communication with
his office.
I was not able to get an actualappointment with him, and then
I went from there.
I went to two other House ofRepresentative offices and then
I went to Senator Greg Stubbe'soffice and I got to sit down
(18:47):
with him personally for 15minutes and his legislative aide
, who is responsible for thistype of thing.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
That's great to hear.
How did everything turn out atthe meeting once you arrived?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
That was my best conversation.
At that point the clemency wasfiled but we had no record that
it had been received.
So they were going to look intothat.
They were going to talk topeople at the office of pardon,
find out what options you knowwe might have to move forward,
see if we can get her paperworkto anybody.
Specifically, they have apardon czar who was pardoned by
(19:21):
President Trump, who's in chargeof pardon, but they don't even
know if she's in Washington orwhere she's at.
I've tried to reach out to her.
I've reached out to herorganization that she personally
had I got word of who might bethe next head of the Bureau of
Prisons.
I have tried to reach out tothat person and get a note sent
(19:41):
to them and let them know I'mfighting on behalf of my
daughter I'm concerned about.
I already know she's disabled.
I'm worried about her cominghome in a body bag.
I appreciate any help we canget.
You know people think I'm beingoverdramatic.
I'm like I'm not beingoverdramatic.
Two weeks ago there was afemale in her prison that was
bullied Michelle's bullied allthe time that was bullied.
(20:02):
There was a female in herprison that was bullied
Michelle's bullied all the timethat was bullied constantly, was
asking for help and she endedup committing suicide.
Is that a concern of mine?
Yes, that's a concern of mine,but she can't say anything
because if she acts like that asa problem, she will get thrown
into solitary and they will puther in a straight jacket or in a
mental ward or whatever they'lldo, and then she'll just really
(20:25):
go downhill.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah, we definitely don't want that to happen.
So what's your next steps?
What are you doing now?
Are you following up the callsthat you had?
Have you got any calls comingin?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
So what I'm doing now is I'm following up with the
five offices that I actuallytouched base with while I was
there, which includes SenatorScott's office.
I actually talked to themearlier.
I let them know what happenedwith Representative Greg
Stubbe's office.
I reached out to him.
I let them know the case number.
We have the case number now andI gave them updates on what's
(20:58):
going on with her and what wewant the next step to be.
And there's so much discussionright now.
Nobody knows the left handdoesn't know what the right hand
is doing.
You know they're supposed to beletting people out on home
confinement.
They're supposed to be lettingminimums out.
They're supposed to be sendingpeople to halfway houses.
They're supposed to be gettingpeople's records straightened
out and it's a big mess becausepeople's records are wrong, you
(21:20):
know.
But I'm fighting for mydaughter right now.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I want to fight for everybody, but right now I'm
fighting for her life, becauseif I lose her, then I'm done.
I can certainly understand yourlogic there, for sure.
Now, what about your family?
How has that affected them andhow are you doing on that front?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
This has affected our family greatly and you know I
mean we're fortunate in that wehave a family to support her.
You know I listen to herstories and it's so sad the
people that have no one to fightfor them.
So I say, well, you tell themonce.
I take care of you, I fight foreverybody, but right now I'm
just trying to save your life.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Well, that's good that you think that way.
So what's your next step now?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
So my next step is right now.
I fly to Texas three times amonth to get her out of the
facility for a couple hours, toget her out of the toxic
environment, to spend time withme.
But it's so hard, I mean, she'sstill crying.
It's a year later, she's stillcrying.
You can't touch them.
You can't, you know, consolethem.
All you can do is sit and talkto them and just tell them
(22:28):
you're going to make it, justkeep pushing through, you know,
but they don't understand herphysical issue and they keep
wanting her to work and shecan't, she can't, she for her.
It's begging and pleading.
(22:48):
It's constant begging andpleading.
I need to be home.
I can't do this anymore.
You know they're going to justlet me die in here.
I want to be with my family.
I miss everybody.
I mean, she wasn't allowed togo to any for those three years.
She couldn't go to, like, anyfunerals or weddings or anything
like that.
She was, you know, confined toan area.
So for four years she hasn'tbeen allowed to do anything, and
(23:15):
for a mistake, a mistake thatshe made, not intentional, no
maliciousness for a mistake.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
It sounds like you're on the right track to getting
what you want done.
It's just going to take sometime, because one thing I've
found when dealing with agovernment or anything like that
is the hands of time move very,very, very slowly.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Very slow.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I think this is going to make a great episode because
you have explained the stepsthat you took.
I hope anyone listening,especially those who fortunately
aren't in a situation like this, can gain some valuable
knowledge from it.
Unfortunately, if they are in asimilar spot, hopefully they
can follow your steps to gainand find success, like you have
(24:01):
too.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, I think, like I said, I had gotten involved
with another group years ago andI know one thing that someone
told me and I was reminded whenI went to Washington if you have
people that come and tell youwhat the problem is and they're
in front of you, they have tolisten to you and it's usually
something they don't know aboutand if they hear from someone
(24:23):
else the same thing and hearfrom someone else the same thing
, then you start to get theirear.
And I know with you know thewomen who were praying at the
abortion clinics who gotarrested.
Some of them were in there withMichelle.
You know the 70 and 80-year-oldwomen were in there with her.
So they're getting a voice andthey're getting to speak out on
(24:45):
what the injustices is.
But the problem Michelle'shaving is and even her counselor
said to her you're kind of likea unicorn in here because
nobody knows she has autism anddoesn't understand why she's
quirky.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
What is it that she might be doing?
That they think is a littlequirky.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
They think that she says things to bully people, but
that's what comes out of hermouth and she doesn't mean it in
a mean or negative way.
And she was almost beaten up byher one roommate who was a
murderer, who was in there formurder, and Michelle was afraid
she was going to be killed.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah, that's real tough.
What would you like people toknow that you think is very
important for them to hear andunderstand?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I'm happy to tell it.
I just hope it can help someoneand I hope that all of our
voices together will one helpsome judges understand you can't
treat everybody the same, and Iknow that a lot of the other
parents and people are speakingout that law enforcement has to
have a little bit of anunderstanding of this too,
because they don't understand.
(25:49):
You know, they think someone'slying to them and they're not
lying to them.
It's just that they're quirkyor they don't understand.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yes, that's a common thing.
That's been said about autisticpeople.
Well, this has been a greatconversation, great information.
I hope it helps a lot of peoplethat are listening.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to come on my podcast.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
All right, Well, thank you so much, Tony.
I look forward to the podcastand hopefully it'll make a
difference in somebody's lives.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yes, absolutely Agree with you there, 100%.
Well, thanks again.
Thanks for taking the time outof your busy schedule to listen
to our show today.
We hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as we enjoyed bringing it
to you.
If you know anyone that wouldlike to tell us their story,
(26:46):
send them to TonyMantorcomcontact then they can give us
their information so one daythey may be a guest on our show.
One more thing we ask telleveryone everywhere about why
Not Me, the world, theconversations we're having and
(27:07):
the inspiration our guests giveto everyone everywhere that you
are not alone in this world.
Welcome to why Not Me ?
The World Podcast, hosted byTony Mantor, broadcasting from
Music City, usa, nashville,tennessee.
Join us as our guests tell ustheir stories.
Some will make you laugh, somewill make you cry.
Their stories Some will makeyou laugh, some will make you
(00:30):
cry.
Real life people who willinspire and show that you are
not alone in this world.
Hopefully, you gain moreawareness, acceptance and a
better understanding for autismaround the world.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
(00:52):
Welcome to why Not Me?
The World Humanity OverHandcuffs the Silent Crisis
special event.
Joining us today is JoanLipinski, who has graciously
agreed to share her deeplypersonal and inspiring story to
navigate the complexities of thelegal system on behalf of her
daughter, a journey that led herall the way to the halls of
(01:15):
power in Washington DC, whereshe courageously advocated for
change.
The challenges she faced havebeen formidable, forging a path
marked by resilience anddetermination.
Through it all, she's gainedinvaluable wisdom and
perspective, making herextraordinary voice in this
conversation.
Truly grateful to have her herewith us today.
(01:38):
Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Oh, it's my pleasure Now if you would give us a
little update on your daughterand her journey that she faced
with the legal system.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So initially, when she had her sentencing, it was
three years after her firstarrest that they actually did
the sentencing and then, uponsentencing, they actually
remanded her on the spot, whichis not what was supposed to
happen.
She was supposed to self-report, but at the end of the
sentencing his comments were Iwould love to have her as my
(02:13):
neighbor.
I know that she was manipulatedinto doing this, but I need to
make an example of her to othernurses and janitors that work in
a prison that you can't do this.
So, and what happened in mydaughter's case was she was
manipulated by inmates where shewas working to bring a package
in that she had no idea what wasin the package, where she would
(02:36):
have never taken it in.
This one inmate was professinghis love for her and totally
used her and befriended her and,you know, built her up and told
him he would take care of herand she just needed to do this
for him.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So can you explain?
Was she in jail for three yearsbefore she got the verdict?
How did this three-year periodcome about?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
No, she was at home on probation pre-trial probation
for three years till she gotsentenced.
We were waiting for asentencing date.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So it took three years from the time that she was
arrested until she finally gotthe verdict.
That took three years to dothis.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yes, and it was almost exactly three years.
It was April 2nd of 2021, andit was April 5th of 2024.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
When the sentencing occurred.
I believe you said the judgemade a notable remark concerning
autism.
Can you provide more detailsabout what was said?
Additionally, can you elaborateon her journey after the
conviction was finalized and thechallenges she faced along the
way to her final destination?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
So at the sentencing he was like you know, it was
stated that you know, peoplewith autism don't do well in
prison, you know.
And she had just had major backsurgery too on top of it and
was supposed to let her see herneurosurgeon before she was, you
know, taken into prison.
But anyway, they didn't let herdo that, they took her on the
spot, and so the journey was sheended up going to a local jail.
(04:11):
She was there for three months,so she was supposed to get
medical help and counseling, butthey put her in a county jail
for three months with notreatment.
And then they moved her to aprivate facility for eight days
and there was no medications,food was scarce and they made
her sign paperwork that wasn'teven hers, but she would have
(04:34):
died there if she didn't.
And then from there they finallysent her to Tallahassee, where
she was there for one day, butthey took her back brace away at
that point and she was not evena little bit healed from her
surgery.
And then they put her on ajourney on a bus and then on two
planes and then on another bus,and then she was taken to
(04:55):
Oklahoma to a transfer facilityand was there for 10 days, and
then, finally, she was put on abus and was taken to her
destination, which was CarswellFederal Medical Center, and it's
the only female medical prisonthat we have.
So that was where she wassupposed to go, but it took four
months and five prisons to getthere, and it was a very arduous
(05:18):
, physically and mentallydraining journey.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Wow, that's an immense physical and emotional
toll she endured throughout thisordeal.
It's hard to imagine thestrength that she had to summon
just to get through this, Givenher medical needs and challenges
she faces.
I think you mentioned thepossibility of getting a
compassionate release.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So after she got there we were going to file for
compassionate release because ofthe horrible treatment I mean
she almost died a couple timesand mentally she just was, you
know about, out of her mind.
So when they filed thecompassionate release in the end
which took a couple months todo the judge, there was over 500
(06:05):
pages sent with a compassionaterelease of medical records and
requests and what had happenedin the previous prisons and she
hadn't gotten any medicaltreatment for her back or her
heart or anything.
I don't think the judge readany of it and his comment was
that her autism, which wasAsperger's that was her
(06:26):
diagnosis, was Asperger's wasoverstated at sentencing and all
prisoners have medical issues.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Well, that's sad to hear that the judge dismissed
her compassionate relief request.
His remark that her Asperger'sdiagnosis was overstated and
that all prisoners have medicalissues feels dismissive of her
unique struggles, adding insultto an already painful situation.
Now, how did you feelwitnessing this response from
(06:55):
the judge, knowing the extent ofyour daughter's suffering?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, that was like stabbing me right in the heart.
No, the autism is what got herin there.
And then no treatment, formedical was what was putting her
in so much pain and she'sdisabled now she can barely walk
, she's in constant pain.
She's still.
It's a year later and we stillhaven't seen a neurosurgeon or a
back doctor of any kind.
(07:21):
And she had one day of physicaltherapy 11 months after her
surgery and her neurosurgeon'snever seen what he did if
everything turned out the way itwas supposed to.
But in the meantime there hasbeen no counseling of any kind,
no medical treatment.
So that started my journey ofwell, my journey started back in
(07:42):
the county jail, taking hermedications away, you know,
giving someone who just hadmajor back surgery on a one-inch
cot with no pillows, noblankets, you know, sleeping
pretty much on metal, which washard.
And then, which still is thecase now, or a year later, she's
got a thicker mattress and shedoes have a pillow, but she's
(08:03):
had no treatment.
So I started being vocal withthe health services, people,
lieutenants in the prison,fighting for just simple things
like underwear and socks.
For four weeks she had nounderwear and no socks, and it
was being a female.
It was very, very difficult atthe time of the month when you
really need that, and I beggedand pleaded for underwear and
(08:27):
socks and four weeks.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So who did you go to for the simple things like that?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I went to the head lieutenant under the warden of
the jail and I also went to thehealth services administrator
who was to make sure she wasgetting the medications she
should be getting.
And I was making those phonecalls at least once a day,
sometimes twice a day, and I wasjust begging and pleading.
(08:54):
I drove to the jail and tooksocks but you're not allowed to
give anything.
And I argued because I gavethem the list of the medications
she was on.
I said the most important thingshe needs right now is Tylenol,
because she just had thissurgery.
They took her off the hardcoredrugs for the pain and for five
days she had no Tylenol.
(09:15):
She had no pain medication ofany kind, no treatment, no pain
medication, sleeping pretty muchon metal, no pillow.
I mean she was in agony.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
What was their response when you brought things
up that she needed?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Oh, we'll check on her.
We'll check on her.
And next thing I know, 10 dayslater they threw her in solitary
.
I couldn't find her.
I thought she was on her way tofederal, you know, because they
said she probably wouldn't bethere very long.
So I'm thinking she's on herway to a federal prison and I
happen to have a video scheduledwith her because there's no
visitation there.
(09:48):
But I happen to have a videoand I thought I'm going to stay
on this video and see whathappens.
She came on the video and wasstill there and told me they
threw her in solitaryconfinement and she wasn't
allowed out, she couldn't makephone calls, she wasn't getting
her medications and nobody, andI was on the phone a lot.
Then I'm like are you trying tokill her, you know?
(10:11):
And they're like well, we don'tknow why she was put in there.
And I said, well, somebodyneeds to find out what she's
doing in there.
Because they said she's goingout of her mind.
You know, it's feces infested,it's cockroach infested.
And I said she can't call me.
He goes well, there's a phonethere.
I go yeah, there's a brokenphone that an inmate pulled off
the wall because they got mad.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
So there's no phone.
So what happened after all ofthat?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So finally there was no explanation as to why she was
put in solitary and that justabout made her crazy.
And finally psychiatry gotinvolved.
Crazy, and finally psychiatrygot involved and finally after
two months she got some anxietymedicine that helped finally
calm her down.
So then she started thisjourney, but with autism these
(10:58):
journeys are very difficult andneed change.
And plus, she had been changedfrom unit to unit to unit to
unit, wasn't allowed outside,never saw daylight, had no
exercise for four months whenshe started this whole journey,
and here she's had back surgery.
So when they put her in a carshe could barely get in the car,
and then when they went to puther on a plane, she could hardly
(11:20):
get up the steps, shackled andchained, you know, and on heart
medicine on top of it.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So where is she now?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
She is at Federal Medical Center in Carswell and
that's, I mean, that's herdestination for now.
But when she got to Carswellthey had no medical records on
her and didn't know what she wasdoing there.
So once again, so here I am,I'm calling.
This is when I really startedcalling on senators and people.
(11:48):
I'm like I need help.
I was working with Walt withPrisonology.
I'm like what do we do?
I had attorneys.
I'm like we've got to get intouch with somebody.
She needs help.
They don't even know what she'sdoing there.
They put her in camp clothes,put her in medical clothes, put
her back in camp clothes, puther in medical clothes, all the
while hauling mattresses andstuff.
(12:10):
She was fit to be tied and Ithought her first day there she
was not going to make it throughthe night.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Now this whole process we've been talking about
is over the last year.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
We're now at a year.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Okay, and there was three years before that, so how
long is her sentence that'sremaining?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
63 months, five years and three months.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
So what about the first three years that went by?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Don't count, they're nothing.
No, because she was at home.
They don't count for anything.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So now she's been in there a year.
Technically she has four more.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Okay, so what are you doing now?
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So what I'm doing right now is, especially after
they denied the compassionaterelease which everybody,
everybody was thinking sheshould be able to get that with
her medical condition, the wayshe's been treated, the mental
aspect of it, you know.
And the judge said we want herin a medical facility where she
gets care.
Well, okay, so four months wentby, we had no care, no medical
(13:11):
facility.
So we thought that would bereason for him to grant the
compassionate release, plus theautism.
And then, like I said, hisstatement was well, her autism
was overstated and all prisonershave medical issues.
Well, not all prisoners havemajor back surgery, heart
conditions and don't get treatedfor any of it.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Right right.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
And get moved to five prisons in four months.
That's not a normal journey.
So, anyways, the more she'sthere and she keeps in touch
with me and I just find outwhat's going on, and so I'm like
I have to do everything I canin my power to try and get her
out.
So the next step is clemency,and we just filed clemency
(13:52):
paperwork.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Okay, so in trying to get clemency, what are the
steps you had to take to getthis started?
Speaker 2 (13:59):
So you go online and you pull the form off online.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And you fill it out.
But then I was able to getanother attorney to help me with
clemency.
He goes we need to add more tothe clemency form.
It's an 11-page form.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
All right.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
It's really her statement of what happened,
what's happened in her life,what's going on, what is she
participating in, what does shewant to do in the future.
And then I put a statement withit, and then I had an attorney
and he and I believe he's onyour podcast, Ed Passon- yes,
he's been on Very good episode.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
How did he help you?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
He actually did the clemency form for me and he made
it her story.
He told her story of going fromlike high school, you know,
through college, and keeping itsimple and then what happened,
you know, and how she got intothis and how this affected her
life.
I wanted to hand deliver thisto Washington was my goal, so
(14:57):
that's where that went.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Okay, so once you did get to clemency papers filled
out, was you able to get them toDC?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Well, right before they got filled out, I heard
from the one House ofRepresentatives person that I
knew.
He said you cannot hand deliverpaperwork, it must go through
email.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It has to be.
It has to go to that address.
That's on the paperwork.
You cannot bring it here and wecan't hand walk it over,
because that was my intention.
I wanted to hand walk it overto the Office of Pardon.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Well, that's unfortunate that you actually
couldn't take it over there inperson.
I always thought handdelivering it sometimes would
make a difference.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I was really let down about that.
But we went ahead and filed itonline and I made copies of it
and I said to myself I'm stillgoing to Washington.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Good for you.
What were your plans?
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I'm going to go and I'm going to carry my papers,
I'm going to put them in frontof people and I'm going to talk
about this issue.
I'm going to talk about theinhumanity that they face in the
prisons right now.
It's understaffing nomedications, they're hungry,
there's not much food, there'sbeen no commissary.
They put people on lockdown.
(16:08):
The inhumane treatment isunreal and Michelle, being a
nurse by trade, she has to seepeople who've lost their legs,
they've lost limbs.
You know they're sick, theyfaint, they have seizures.
She can't help them and she'sin a high, she's in a maximum
security facility because it'smedical.
(16:28):
So she's in with white collarcrime, she's in with minimum
offense, first offenders andshe's also in with murderers.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
So your next step was Washington DC.
How did it go when you went upthere?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yes, so I went to Washington last week and I took
a whole packet with me.
I put an agenda together.
I had a meeting with SenatorCruz's office.
I went to his office.
I couldn't get a personal visitwith him but I was able to go
to a coffee that he had wherehis staff was there and I did
get to meet him.
So I got to sit down with hisstaff and I had my packet of her
(17:06):
clemency paperwork and what'shappening and just a brief
description of why I was thereand I was fighting for her life.
I'm fighting for her being nowbeing disabled.
I'm fighting for prisonerrights because they don't
understand how bad things are inthere.
We've got no leader right nowof the BOP.
(17:26):
A lot of the wardens haveresigned, the leadership is
lacking and the treatment withinthe facility is just inhumane.
So I got to sit down and reallyhave a long talk with his
legislative aide and he was likeI really appreciate you letting
me know this.
He said I had no idea.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
So do you think that the time that you spent up there
was productive and did you walkaway happy with it?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I think, if you take any message away from this at
all, they are involved in somany different things that if
you have 10 people that go andtalk to the same person about
the same issues, that's whereyou start having an impact.
And when you start having morepeople, like a hundred people or
a thousand people that arecomplaining about the same thing
, then you get.
(18:14):
You start getting people's ears.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Right, that makes a tremendous amount of sense.
So you got to see Senator Cruzand talk with some of his people
.
Did you get a chance to seeanyone else?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Well then I went from Senator Cruz's office, I went
to Rick Scott's office SenatorRick Scott's office and dropped
the packet off there, because Ihad been in communication with
his office.
I was not able to get an actualappointment with him, and then
I went from there.
I went to two other House ofRepresentative offices and then
I went to Senator Greg Stubbe'soffice and I got to sit down
(18:47):
with him personally for 15minutes and his legislative aide
, who is responsible for thistype of thing.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
That's great to hear.
How did everything turn out atthe meeting once you arrived?
Speaker 2 (19:00):
That was my best conversation.
At that point the clemency wasfiled but we had no record that
it had been received.
So they were going to look intothat.
They were going to talk topeople at the office of pardon,
find out what options you knowwe might have to move forward,
see if we can get her paperworkto anybody.
Specifically, they have apardon czar who was pardoned by
(19:21):
President Trump, who's in chargeof pardon, but they don't even
know if she's in Washington orwhere she's at.
I've tried to reach out to her.
I've reached out to herorganization that she personally
had I got word of who might bethe next head of the Bureau of
Prisons.
I have tried to reach out tothat person and get a note sent
(19:41):
to them and let them know I'mfighting on behalf of my
daughter I'm concerned about.
I already know she's disabled.
I'm worried about her cominghome in a body bag.
I appreciate any help we canget.
You know people think I'm beingoverdramatic.
I'm like I'm not beingoverdramatic.
Two weeks ago there was afemale in her prison that was
bullied Michelle's bullied allthe time that was bullied.
(20:02):
There was a female in herprison that was bullied
Michelle's bullied all the timethat was bullied constantly, was
asking for help and she endedup committing suicide.
Is that a concern of mine?
Yes, that's a concern of mine,but she can't say anything
because if she acts like that asa problem, she will get thrown
into solitary and they will puther in a straight jacket or in a
mental ward or whatever they'lldo, and then she'll just really
(20:25):
go downhill.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah, we definitely don't want that to happen.
So what's your next steps?
What are you doing now?
Are you following up the callsthat you had?
Have you got any calls comingin?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
So what I'm doing now is I'm following up with the
five offices that I actuallytouched base with while I was
there, which includes SenatorScott's office.
I actually talked to themearlier.
I let them know what happenedwith Representative Greg
Stubbe's office.
I reached out to him.
I let them know the case number.
We have the case number now andI gave them updates on what's
(20:58):
going on with her and what wewant the next step to be.
And there's so much discussionright now.
Nobody knows the left handdoesn't know what the right hand
is doing.
You know they're supposed to beletting people out on home
confinement.
They're supposed to be lettingminimums out.
They're supposed to be sendingpeople to halfway houses.
They're supposed to be gettingpeople's records straightened
out and it's a big mess becausepeople's records are wrong, you
(21:20):
know.
But I'm fighting for mydaughter right now.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I want to fight for everybody, but right now I'm
fighting for her life, becauseif I lose her, then I'm done.
I can certainly understand yourlogic there, for sure.
Now, what about your family?
How has that affected them andhow are you doing on that front?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
This has affected our family greatly and you know I
mean we're fortunate in that wehave a family to support her.
You know I listen to herstories and it's so sad the
people that have no one to fightfor them.
So I say, well, you tell themonce.
I take care of you, I fight foreverybody, but right now I'm
just trying to save your life.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Well, that's good that you think that way.
So what's your next step now?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
So my next step is right now.
I fly to Texas three times amonth to get her out of the
facility for a couple hours, toget her out of the toxic
environment, to spend time withme.
But it's so hard, I mean, she'sstill crying.
It's a year later, she's stillcrying.
You can't touch them.
You can't, you know, consolethem.
All you can do is sit and talkto them and just tell them
(22:28):
you're going to make it, justkeep pushing through, you know,
but they don't understand herphysical issue and they keep
wanting her to work and shecan't, she can't, she for her.
It's begging and pleading.
(22:48):
It's constant begging andpleading.
I need to be home.
I can't do this anymore.
You know they're going to justlet me die in here.
I want to be with my family.
I miss everybody.
I mean, she wasn't allowed togo to any for those three years.
She couldn't go to, like, anyfunerals or weddings or anything
like that.
She was, you know, confined toan area.
So for four years she hasn'tbeen allowed to do anything, and
(23:15):
for a mistake, a mistake thatshe made, not intentional, no
maliciousness for a mistake.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
It sounds like you're on the right track to getting
what you want done.
It's just going to take sometime, because one thing I've
found when dealing with agovernment or anything like that
is the hands of time move very,very, very slowly.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Very slow.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I think this is going to make a great episode because
you have explained the stepsthat you took.
I hope anyone listening,especially those who fortunately
aren't in a situation like this, can gain some valuable
knowledge from it.
Unfortunately, if they are in asimilar spot, hopefully they
can follow your steps to gainand find success, like you have
(24:01):
too.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, I think, like I said, I had gotten involved
with another group years ago andI know one thing that someone
told me and I was reminded whenI went to Washington if you have
people that come and tell youwhat the problem is and they're
in front of you, they have tolisten to you and it's usually
something they don't know aboutand if they hear from someone
(24:23):
else the same thing and hearfrom someone else the same thing
, then you start to get theirear.
And I know with you know thewomen who were praying at the
abortion clinics who gotarrested.
Some of them were in there withMichelle.
You know the 70 and 80-year-oldwomen were in there with her.
So they're getting a voice andthey're getting to speak out on
(24:45):
what the injustices is.
But the problem Michelle'shaving is and even her counselor
said to her you're kind of likea unicorn in here because
nobody knows she has autism anddoesn't understand why she's
quirky.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
What is it that she might be doing?
That they think is a littlequirky.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
They think that she says things to bully people, but
that's what comes out of hermouth and she doesn't mean it in
a mean or negative way.
And she was almost beaten up byher one roommate who was a
murderer, who was in there formurder, and Michelle was afraid
she was going to be killed.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah, that's real tough.
What would you like people toknow that you think is very
important for them to hear andunderstand?
Speaker 2 (25:27):
I'm happy to tell it.
I just hope it can help someoneand I hope that all of our
voices together will one helpsome judges understand you can't
treat everybody the same, and Iknow that a lot of the other
parents and people are speakingout that law enforcement has to
have a little bit of anunderstanding of this too,
because they don't understand.
(25:49):
You know, they think someone'slying to them and they're not
lying to them.
It's just that they're quirkyor they don't understand.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yes, that's a common thing.
That's been said about autisticpeople.
Well, this has been a greatconversation, great information.
I hope it helps a lot of peoplethat are listening.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to come on my podcast.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
All right, Well, thank you so much, Tony.
I look forward to the podcastand hopefully it'll make a
difference in somebody's lives.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yes, absolutely Agree with you there, 100%.
Well, thanks again.
Thanks for taking the time outof your busy schedule to listen
to our show today.
We hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as we enjoyed bringing it
to you.
If you know anyone that wouldlike to tell us their story,
(26:46):
send them to TonyMantorcomcontact then they can give us
their information so one daythey may be a guest on our show.
One more thing we ask telleveryone everywhere about why
Not Me, the world, theconversations we're having and
(27:07):
the inspiration our guests giveto everyone everywhere that you
are not alone in this world.
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